The Viall Files - E1168 - Jax Taylor's Publicist & Breaking Up With Broke Men w/ Pattie Ehsaei

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Patti Ehsai joins us to talk Never Date a Broke Dude, financial red flags, prenups, postnups, dating with ambition, and the money questions every couple should ask before getting serious. We also break down Married at First Sight, RHOC, Vicki's vulnerable divorce regret, Jen's finances, Brittany Cartwright speaking out about Jax, and why reality TV always exposes the gap between image and real life. Plus, Nick asks the group if he's the asshole for getting into it over a very expensive pair of pants.   "Honestly, all of you are dorks." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Spa Weekend: Book your escape and treat yourself to SPA WEEKEND. Only in theaters August 21st. TaskRabbit: When life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get fifteen dollars off your first task at https://taskrabbit.com or on the Taskrabbit app using promo code VIALL. Helix Sleep: Right now, Helix is offering 27% off sitewide exclusively for listeners of The Viall Files. Go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for 27% off sitewide. Chime: Join the millions who are already banking fee free with America's #1 Choice for Banking. Head to https://chime.com/viall  Rosetta Stone: If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire! Viall Files listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today! Superhuman: Find out more at https://superhuman.com  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall  @susiecevans     @ciaracrobinson @duchessofdecorum @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @baybaeee Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 36:13 - Pattie Ehsaei Joins 1:32:44 - Married at First Sight

Oh, gross. I just, you know. It's still up. You knew it was coming. Guys, please stay here. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick.

Join by the household. We got the whole gang is here. A lot's to get into. We're going to talk married at first sight. We have Patty Asai here, author of Never Data Broke Dude. She's also watching Married at First Side. and is a big Bravo fan. So we're going to have some fun with Patty.

Maybe we'll learn a little thing or two about finances and relationships. I think she's a financial expert and wrote a very fascinating book to give us some financial tips and tricks. You know, what they say, the broom, the budget, the bed. And she's talking about the budget

in the relationship. We also have Real Housewives of Orange County to dive into, and a lot is going on in the world of Railway TV. Brittany Cartwright is finally speaking up on her ex-Jack's Taylor dating her former Pablo says People are compared it to Brittany dating Jack's friend is that is that not that I'm in the business of defending Jack's Taylor But is that is that like a tit-for-tat situation or?

Well, Brittany never got a fake smart water campaign out of that So I don't know if it's the same yeah and I'm also like remember the rumors about them dating a year ago? Yeah, so how long has this been going on? Oh, yeah I don't think that this is before pool. Yeah, I think it was before smart water. Also, how long has Brittany not been with Lori? That is my biggest question. And I'm pretty positive.

If it wasn't last year, it was two years ago, but it was like, Britney was at her birthday where she like had a bunch of clients come out and like go stay at a house, filming podcasts, the whole thing. So I'm just like, you were closer to Brittany. Yeah. It wasn't like just a professional client relationship. This unfolding is literally fan fiction for me because it feels like justice is being served in the sense that like I.

Who's... Fan fiction? No, which part cut you up? The justice being served. Because, because look at what is happening. The way the internet is reacting, I'm like, y'all are being exposed when somebody comes for... Oh, you mean like Jackson and Lori? Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, of course it's horrible for Brittany. Of course, but I'm like... Yeah, I thought you were like... You deserve this, Britney. No. Oh, my God. I'm saying, like, the fact that this has been exposed.

And like, I don't... Same with Britney, as she said in her statement. I don't wish bad on anybody. But I'm like, if you're going to cross somebody and hook up and be with their man and represent them, like that to me is muddying the water. Like they say don't shit where you eat. That is like that parasite disease in all of your contaminated foods. I mean, I've known Lori since 2016. Did you know she had it in her?

That dog? She had that dog in her. You know, I am. Wow in hell. It depends because honestly, I have to say, I'm like, I have like the most amazing people that I work with. But I have also encountered some of the weirdest. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of great people.

Of course, of course. I mean, my team crushes. Of course. Same. Especially the reality TV star. The reality TV star always meets the leeches first. There's a lot of bad actors, you could say. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they're the first ones to show up and knock on your door. Yeah. But here's my question about this.

Is it, although we know that because it's, Jack's Taylor, this smart water thing blew up in his face. Is it that bad of an idea to, like, pretend you have a brand deal just to see what would happen? Is that not kind of a goaded publicist move? If she hadn't slept with him? I don't think it's a bad idea, but I'm like, why don't you just call it a spec? Like, why don't, like, the different, like, I think you need to clarify that it's not

a paid partnership. Oh, yeah. It's only weird because it's Jack's Taylor. Yeah. But is there any world in which a fan? I'm just playing devil's advocate for the publicist. potentially somebody here, like, who's just trying to get back, like plotted this and sent the email and was like,

let's get Jack's Taylor and make him do a post. Like, it's low-key so funny that somebody may have, if he's telling the truth, what if somebody really just tricked him into doing a fake ad? Yeah, but like you, everyone is, everyone assumes that Lori has, and Lori's not like just a publicist. Lori, like, has made her a living in the space for the past 10 years. You know, what she's really good at is getting some of these people brand deals.

Anyway, everyone assumes that she was the one taking these photos. And Lori, you know, she would know whether something, there's no way she would do this deal without, like, calling up the brand. That's what I would think. I was like, you have access to be able to reach out and contact and confirm or be like, do you need anything? like what Jack's posted was from like a video AI form that was like you need to give two deliverables. Like he's just on a normal platform that anybody can sign up. Also does he seem like the type of person that would like always go through his manager? Because that's such a thing in the industry where like people who like get inbound,

they don't bring it to their manager even if they're exclusive because they're maybe feeling greedy. And they're like, oh, I can do this deal on my own. I loki feel like. That's crazy. No, people do it all the time. It's like totally a thing. And it drives managers nuts. But I could so...

I'm firing your manager. What's that? Well, Jacks can't really do that right now. He has to break up with. No, I just mean in general like that. Which not that he would have any problem doing. He's Jack Taylor. But I could see him being like, oh, like, here's easy.

You know, I'll just do this myself and not knowing that it's not. But I don't know. Or it's a fake campaign. I don't know. I just think it's really funny either way. I like the screenshot that he posted, though, like literally just had two deliverables in a weird AI page where I'm just like, I just think of that phone call he got on the valley that was about going to rehab or whatever. And it was like the weird conversation of how things

cost. And it just sounded like somebody, like a buddy called him up and was like, hey man. So you could either come for the full time and it'll be this much or you could break it up in two weeks. And it was just like, I don't think a rehab facility would talk like that. But are we also exactly to your point? Are we also not talking about Jacks Taylor, the man that tried to convince everybody that he was taking a hockey job in Florida. Thank you. Like, this is a serial liar. This is like a no one of America's most famous liars, which is saying something.

I don't know the history that well, but like were they all around each other when everybody was still together? Like, because that, I think that would be really bothersome to me is to like separate and then to know that there was kind of always that maybe connect. in the background. You know what I mean? Like, we're there, like, mutually, where like the couples all friendly, I guess, at some point?

Like, do we know that part of their history? I mean, Lori's repped them for as long as I know. So I don't really know when I'm just like, but to your point where I'm like, she was definitely around them while they were together. Yeah. And I'm curious, like, vice versa was like. I believe, like, a lot of people are from,

I've never met Lori's husband. I believe a lot of people have. Okay. Yeah, that would bother me so bad. Yeah. I mean, I think that's like the ageal story though too where it's like oh somebody that I was friends with lost touch and the next thing you know they're dating like your ex or something and it's just like so were you thinking about it the whole time exactly give it enough time so it doesn't sting but it's still weird yeah you know yeah I mean I just the thing is I would truly not put anything on God's green earth past Jack's Taylor but the thing about nothing that Jack's Taylor does surprises you right and so the idea that he would hook up with former current publicist or his ex-wife's former.

Like, that's like, oh, if you, if all you did was hear that story, you'd be like, oh, okay. But the fact that like we know Brittany and the, you know, obviously the fan base knows Brittany. And Lori, to that extent, I think if you follow this group closely enough and if you have been fans of this group closely enough, again, she's been so involved that like her name comes up. I mean, she is, you know, I think she's done podcasts in the past. She is, like, she has made herself visible. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you, no one knows who might. I mean, like, a lot of people have teams in that, like, in the industry, you know them,

but it's not like from a public facing standpoint. They're, they're in it, right? Yeah, it's more like, well, would Lori, the question begs is like, would Lori have done this with anyone who made themselves, like, had a showed an interest in her in terms of like some of the couples and you know only because it's like if you said yes to jack's taylor if if that was the person who and again i you know maybe maybe there's some mystery maybe maybe we all have been fooled for a decade where behind closed doors jack taylor is a saint no i have a theory that just popped into my head my little tinfoil hat just came on but i'm just like okay

Lori's client, right? And Jack's got kicked off the Valley or took a break or whatever. Hasn't really been in the public eye outside of like random, you know, blips on the radar for a headline. I'm like, do we think that like maybe this is like a ploy to get, A, it gives Brittany a better

storyline for the Valley. I mean, I think Lori would love nothing better to be. To bring Jacks back on. She gets her 10% again. Like, I don't think it's, no. Like big brain, big brain. big brain PR relationship. Yeah, like in the sense of like

where PR becomes the PR relationship. Yeah, well, I mean, listen. They picked up cameras for Britney. Lori is no dummy. That's what I'm saying. But this, this relationship choice makes no sense. Even if from like a,

she's throwing it all away, so to speak. I don't know who do you, if you're, if you're working with her right now, you, it raises some questions. If like if you're like, hey, so. what's going on how's that new relationship right?

Wait, here's the rebuttal to your theory is that when Jacks was posting he was saying that Brittany has directed, which is a lie but Britney has directly contacted networks and brands in an effort to stop me from working

and prevent me from getting opportunities affecting my ability to earn living obviously a lie but if he's claiming that that wouldn't make sense in like a unified PR strategy to have them fighting like that. I don't know that Britney

like in my mind where I'm like I don't think Brittany is involved in the like, oh, gives her a storyline that just popped into my head where it was like the connection. Yeah, to bringing Jax back on and having this element of Lori, the betrayal, the whatever, because all I know is they picked up cameras

once the headline dropped, where I'm like, in actuality, this storyline has nothing to do with the Valley. They're trying to, like, self-produce from the outside. I shockingly think that Jax is leading this relationship. I mean, at this point, they should do an interview. Yeah. Yeah. It might help their case.

Give the people what they want. You know? I mean, they You're, it's out, you know, you knew, you knew if you were going to do this. It would be a major story, you know, you, you didn't, they didn't, like, these photos of them being caught were like, in Mexico at a very public place, they look like, honestly, paparazzi staged photos. Lori, Lori certainly knows how to stage a paparazzi photo, you know, it just, it doesn't look like an accident, you know. Yeah.

And they weren't hiding it. They weren't, like, they were, you know, Jack's Taylor is a. he's still well known if you if you go to Mexico and any tourist like oh my god like you know that that's that's like going to the mall you know I mean you know what I'm saying like a vacation like a lot of Mexico Vegas I think it's intentional yeah it's a lot of like middle America families on on you know Easter break or whatever they're the people who watch Bravo you know like Easter I here's my here's my question about this do we think

Jack's Taylor having a mustache has something to do with this? No. No? I think he fits right into the stereotype

of don't trust a man with a mustache. Exactly. Do you guys think that's true? What? Do you think men with mustaches are

less trustworthy? Red flags? There's probably some truth to it because it's a bit of a costume and it's unique. Well, it used to be unique in nature

a couple years ago. And it has a little bit of a mustache is unique in nature. Well, maybe not historically, but I think they went out of vogue. They definitely, they went way out of vogue. Yeah. Like to the point where like it was like how did mustachees ever exist? Yeah. And then they like came roaring back in a way that like I think made a lot of like men mysterious.

You know, like complicated. You know, like why would you do that? How could you pull it off? He's a little troubled, you know. I need to fix him. Yeah, and then it caught on. And so I think a lot of guys started growing mustaches to, like, you know, look more dangerous. The only guy I've ever dated with a mustache cheated on me the whole time.

Oof. And he was hot. And it was a great mustache. I have a quick, Am I the Asshole story? Oh, okay. I know you're all like, yes. I did say that out loud. Me neither.

Were we thinking it? I genuinely want to know. Okay. I'll be honest. We will be honest. I don't know if this is like, I have this, there's kind of this boutiquey men store that I really like. I've been shopping there for years. And they have some pretty nice articles of clothing.

And when I go there, it's like, it's a treat, you know, because it's expensive stuff. Okay. And so I went and bought some pants. And these are, they were expensive. They're so expensive, embarrassed to say how much I spent on these pants, okay? I kind of like need to know. How much I spent? Yeah.

I'm just curious what? Over under 200. Over. Oh my God. Over under a thousand. Under. Okay. Okay.

Bro. I mean, like, you know, it's all relative, but like. I shut back crossroads. You know, listen, I'm lucky enough that every once in a while I can treat myself. But like, you know, the truth is a $60 pair of vintage jeans you can find out of like a rummage sale. Mm-hmm. It can look just as good and last just as long. I got these jeans for $20.

Period. And they look fantastic. Yeah, I noticed. These were like, you know, raw denim. Like they're, they're Japanese jeans, you know? Oh, I know exactly what genes are talking about. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and so the thought is, it's like, you know what? I'm going to treat myself and I'm going to splurge, but these are like high quality pants. You know, they're going to be with me for a while. And so I bought the pants, love them. And then like, like, three days in, the zipper broke. Yeah, that's not okay. Yeah, take them back. Right.

So, and as you might expect, this store being a very, it's a very, It's a boutique. It's, you know, it's family owned. It's, you know, it's not like some big chain. So it's a type of, like, you know, they get a bunch of different brands all over the world. So no doubt, a store like this has a very strict return policy, which I totally understand. Because, like, 22-year-old Nick would have gone into this store and then like, oh my gosh, should I, like, spend more than I can afford? And then you buy them and then you go to the event.

And you're like, you know what? I think I'm just going to take them back, you know, after you get, like, one wear. and then you try to convince them that you didn't wear it. Like, you know, we've all, right? I've done this. You know, we've all been there. And so I get it.

They, no doubt a star like this has to deal with that situation, right? And so they're, you know, it's like they don't do returns or exchanges. You can do maybe store credit, but it's like a whole thing. And so, but I'm, the zipper broke. Yeah. I can't wear the pants anymore. Yeah. And again, like, I don't, if I was up to no good, I don't know.

I don't know if did I try to break the zipper or did I, I don't even know how one would break a zipper. I have a question about the story. When you went, what did you do when the zipper broke? Were you trying to like take them back or get the zipper fixed? I just wanted a pair of pants that had the zipper on it. Okay. So you're just trying to exchange with a pair of pants without a broken zipper? Yeah.

So on Saturday, the family, we decided to try to get some brunch. We tried to, you know, now I need to get out of the house. You know, we have a, we have a favorite brunch spot we go to that's huge. usually pretty empty. We can get in and out. We love it. We brought the twins. We brought it river.

We have a tight window, obviously, between feedings and things like that. And this store is near this place. So I'm like, I'm just gonna, there's no good time to have to deal with something like this.

Because I'm already frustrated that I spent all this money on this pair of pants only for like days later, the zipper to break. Mm-hmm. And I'm thinking, okay,

I can probably just take it to like a tailor and just probably get a zipper fix. But I'm like, I spent all this money on this pair of pants. I just want to, I want to get what I paid for, you know? So I walk in the store with a pair of...

And I got the family in the car. I'm like... Not even... I'm illegally parked. You know, I'm thinking this is... Open a quick thing. A quick in and out. Like, hey, you know, like, there's a...

Look at the pants. The zipper broke. I walk in and I'm like, hey, I got... You know, I bought these pair of pants like a couple weeks ago. I, you know, I didn't bring the receipt or whatever. Like, I clearly got them from here, you know? And they don't even look at the pants.

Immediately it's like, you can tell, like, they have this whole like return policy process where they like kind of get weird. Yeah. And they're like, well, you clearly warn them. So I don't really know if we can help you. But and I'm like and our manager's not here. And I'm like, but wait, guys, just look at the pants. Like they're, the zipper's broken.

And they're like, well, you know, I'm like, I got my whole family in the car. I'm leaving town soon. Can I just, I just want a pair of pants that works. I can't, I really don't want to have to come back for this. Like, you know, because they're like, we can't help you. Yeah. Because our manager's not here. There's like four employees.

Like they're all adults. Like, I'm assuming they're all capable of assessing this pair of pants and being like, yeah, no, for sure. Like, the zipper's broken. Right. A person helps me. And she's like, well, let me go and call the manager. I'm like, okay. All right.

And then like, meanwhile, like, family's still in the car. I'm like, I'm panicking because I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I'm sure everyone's crying at this point. And then another employee is like looking at the pants. I'm like, yeah, like, so like none of them like look at the zipper. They're just like, they're just like, yeah, you clearly wore them. And I'm like. And then so I'm talking to this guy, I'm like, hey, do you guys just like not stand by your product?

Like, again, I just want to, he's like, well, we just can't give store credit. I'm like, I don't want store credit. I don't want to return. I just want a pair of pants with a zipper. So, like, honestly, if you have, like, if you have somebody can fix a zipper, like, by all means, but can I just leave here with a pair of pants I can wear? And it was like a pretty woman moment where I felt like they were, I was this like, I felt like they were treating me like I was trying to scam them. Right. you know, like as if like, we know what you're doing.

And I'm like, and I said to the guy, I'm like, because I'm clearly getting frustrated. And I'm like, do you think I'm being difficult? And he's like, yes. That's kind of iconic. Not that you weren't the wrong, but that's an iconic response. I mean, I was definitely at this point frustrated. And I'm just like, can I just get some help?

Were you frustrated from the get go? Like when you, like, I was frustrated at the moment. The first employee was like, we can't help you without even looking at the zipper. It was like, you wore these pants. we can't help you end of story. Do you feel like from that point on like and not that it makes it right? But I'm just curious from that point on did you have like an attitude with them as well? 100%.

Okay. Well, I think, okay. I definitely was like, but I've got, I have some thoughts. I have some thoughts. I know I would do in this situation. I'm definitely like triggered, you know. Yeah, yeah. It awoke something in you.

It's people not doing their jobs. My energy is high. It's not my job. Yeah. I don't know what their jobs are. I'm just like, I just want some help. and I want them to look at the pants. Yeah.

You're trying to ask a question and people, you're saying zipper and they're saying something. And I'm like, that's not what I'm saying. I'm like, I just want a pair of pants. You're being gaslit right now. It feels like I'm being gaslit. Exactly. I'm so sorry. First off, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. I don't know. And I'm like, I said to the guy, I'm like, I just want a pair of pants with the working zipper. And he like points at the rack and goes, well, you're welcome to buy another pair of pants. Honestly, this is some L.A. bullshit. I know. I kind of like, I kind of get it though. Like, I kind of like it.

And I kind of grab the pants and storm out. Because they're like, we're not, we can't help you. I. And then I looked up who the owners were and DM them. And they quickly got back to me. And then they have since kind of ghosted me. I kind of, I have some thoughts. I don't think you're the asshole.

Right. I think that like there were multiple assholes is what was happening. And I'm one of them. You might be one of them. Yeah. But not. What could I have done differently? Nothing.

I think honest feedback. My context is like having worked a job where you're like so micromanaged and you're like, I literally can't help you. Our manager is literally the only person that has the authority to like do X, Y, and Z. Yeah, yeah. There was a little bit of that. But I guess my frustration came with like they didn't even look at the zipper. And I guess if that was the case. Are they like?

I can't begin to assess. their age. They were definitely all adults. They were definitely not like 19. Okay. As I was insane. I feel like if they were like early 20s, I would have a little bit of mid to late mid to late. Yeah. I think there's like a part of me that's like maybe maybe they've been in a situation multiple times where they have people come in trying to return kind of what you were describing earlier. And if your initial reaction after their shutdown was then like you're really ticked off and like annoyed. I, could kind of see them kind of like group thinking and being like honestly fuck this guy probably no 100% that what it was he's a dick we literally can't do anything unless our manager's here

so like we're not going to go out of our way to help him absolutely but it definitely wasn't like they didn't look at the jeans yeah yeah and it was like and it wasn't like i i i would have loved and maybe this is too much for me to ask some empathy where it was like one thousand like hey listen man we get it honestly like i don't know why we're not allowed to do this, but like, we're just, it was, it was, yeah, you needed that and I will give you that. It was like, you're scamming us. Like, the man wouldn't, like, make eye contact with me as if, like, I was like, I know your bullshit dude. Yeah. Yeah. Like, he was, like, the vibe he was giving me. And I'm like, did I break the zipper? Like, what I, explain to me what I, you're in the right for

your expectations. Yeah. Here's what I think about the situation. As someone who used to, I used to work out of Brooks Brothers, right? That's a secret thing about me. Oh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And outlets. Store in Vera Beach Florida. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah, I think when you're not allowed to do something or you just don't know how the return policy works, you say, I don't know, I'm sorry.

Let me grab my manager. Let me call you. It's not going to be a fast thing, like apologies. That would be normal, normal thing. This is a boozy-ass annoying store, right? Their job is to be annoying. You know that SNL skit, which. When you're shopping there, you feel kind of cool, you know?

Yeah. Here's the thing. No, it's like, everyone here, like, they're all dorks. Like, this is my true. this is my true 100% vulnerable honest take on it. Everyone in this situation is dorky as hell. One, you're paying too much money for these pants. Who cares? I'm with me.

Two, like, you know, you kind of did this to yourself by buying expensive pants and expecting people to like not think that you, you know what I mean? It's like they know that you're paying too much money for pants. So they know that you have the money to pay that. They're going to exploit you. They know you have money because you paid up way

too much money for pants and now you're coming in being like, my zipper broke. Instead of, you can afford to go to a tailor and get them to fix the zippers so they're like bruh and they can't afford it and yeah and they can't afford the pan and so they're mad at you yeah they're mad at you there it's a class thing happening here there's a class and then they're also and they have a and they have a superiority complex because they're working at this annoying store so they're going to be dicks to you because they can yeah so everyone in this situation is just mary just ate down with the whole story and you should just go get the zipper fix for like 20

bucks that's what i would have done immediately if i invested in a pair of pants I think she's right. I think she's right. That was definitely an option, but it was like, come on. You can't like. I'm not saying. Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right? That's honestly the question.

Do you want to be happy? How's your heart, Nick? Yeah. Which, by the way, Nick, I would have raised the better business bureau on them. No, I literally, no, when I was like, I, like, I, like, the tailor is closer to my house and she's a lovely lady who is like, always. So it would have been easier. You have a relationship with her.

You could have supported her. And I'm always, every time I walk going to go in the. Taylor, she's like, it'll be four days. I'm like, what if I give you $50, can you do it in an hour? She's like, of course. You know, like, 50 bucks on top. Like, I'm like, can I? You have a working relationship with this woman.

Yeah. Yeah, but I was like, what would Justin do? You know, in my heart. I'm a lawyer. I'm sorry. And I would have said the same thing to Justin. I would have been like, one, I can't believe you spent that $1 20 on those pants, too, if you're going to, invest in them and go get them fixed. Were there more? But also, this is a store

that I've, I've sung their praises. I'm always like, I love this store. I've told, like, stylist to go there. They always have, like, you know, for red carpet stuff I've done in the past. And it's just like, come. No, it is. I believe that's a definition of a parissocial relationship. Oh, and I think that this, my hot take is, like, moving forward, like, keep that in the back

of your mind. Yeah. Like, I don't know that you need to, like, you know, come out and say their name. But spend your money elsewhere. If you're a valued customer. I'm so sad because I love the fucking store. I know. I just have one question, though, is, was, A, were there, two questions.

Were there more pairs of these pants in the store? They didn't even look. Did you? Well, no, I mean, it's one of those stores where they have one pair of pants and then like, everything's in the back. Everything's in the back. So I didn't go in look and. Got you.

I would have been like, because that's what I was wondering. I was like, I would have just grabbed the other pair of pants and been like, see how the zipper's on this one and how it's not on this one? I think that was my frustrating part is they didn't even look at the zipper. Yeah. And it was like, did I break the zipper? Like what? And again, the guy was this like, not my problem.

It's a great example of like how relationships work where sometimes you can't actually solve the issue, but a little empathy would go a long way. And also something. They could have thrown the boss under the, yeah. It's just like, no, it's crazy, man. I don't know why we do this. And it's just like. Oh, that's immediately what I'm, when I'm customer service mode, I'm immediately like, sorry,

my boss is an asshole. You know what I mean? It's the easiest thing in the world to get someone to be nice to you, regardless of if it's true. I have no power. Yeah. What do you think, do you think that like, do the expensive pants have something to do with it? And I would wonder what like Patty, someone who wrote a book about broke men, broke dudes and not dating them would feel about the story considering the booginess of the store. Yes. Nice transition. Up next. We have our guest, Patty Asai coming on the show to talk about finances and relationships. She's got a really thoughtful book, Never Date a Broke Dude. Catchy title. We love it. We love it. We love a catchy title. We're going to talk a little married at first sight and gets her insight. on the do's and doubts and relationships. Before we get to that, though,

speaking of Tradwives, I'm obsessed. I'm just obsessed with this whole conversation. I know. I'm glad I'm a part of it now. For all the people. Welcome to the conversation. Everyone saying, welcome,

welcome, Nick. I don't know. Serendipitously, Anne Hathway is coming out with a new movie about Tradwives. Yes. Yesterday is the book. A lot of people were mentioning

the book yesterday. And it's like a modern woman, like she's embracing the tradd wife and then she like goes she's like lashes back in time to like the year 1800 or some shit is like the premise that's how I understand that she plays a tradwife influencer who gets sent back to the 18 I can't wait for this movie because a I think it's going to be such a good movie yeah and I think an hathway is the perfect casting and it's going to trigger so many people everyone's it's going to be like it's going to be the new odyssey she

or everyone's just going to the original yeah it's like who who violated zeus's law more the greeks with the trojan horse or an Mathaway being a tradwife influence. No, it's going to be the real question. It's going to be like, uh, they're going to be fighting over the, the, the themes of the movie. I can't wait. I'm locked in. It's going to be really great.

I just want to see her eat down. I know she's going to. Oh my God. The horrors of her expression she'll have. It's going to be some great acting, honey. But like, I mean, like, I just think, I think that's why I'm so fascinated at it. Because like you said on, on Tuesday, I just think it's generally so silly because Nally gave me a hard time because I, you know, my being a trad wife makes me feel.

masculine and then I was obviously talking about the things I do. Obviously in the essay I talked about how like, you know, Nali does so much and there's so much she does that like I can't even describe. But in the one, the parts that clipped, it was like, I do the laundry. I do the laundry. I do the she does like she she she does laundry. She does like, yeah, thanks for the shout out. No, Natalie obviously does. I mean, I couldn't. I mean, it's so much in our, I like there's so many things that goes on in like rivers like the doctor's appointments and like the things that are necessary i guess to just be a parent i i'm clueless does that make sense like i just the things that just need to get done and the responsibility of we need to do this for our kids and like just the basic

like the maternal instinct like the admin of our like i'm you're lost lost wouldn't know thank god now he completely does all of that yeah i'm i'm in this new phase in my life okay that I'm actually really enjoying cooking and baking again, and it's been years. I know the travesty. Is she a trad wife in training? I don't know. She gets engaged and starts wiping up. Yeah, she gets engaged and starts wiping up.

I mean, it took a minute. Sarah, how do you sleep at night? I don't know. I'm scared to the grocery store, so I was like, I think if I want to eat clean, I'm going to have to start making it myself. So I started off with like a starter loaf, a little French loaf, and it turned out actually great, which is surprising. But I was like, I was very frustrated baking it.

And then it's like once it comes out though and like everyone's like, oh my God, this is so good. You're like, wait, this is what makes it all worth it. Did you post your photo video? It is pending. I'm editing it currently. Or the team is editing it. I just airdrop some footage from baking it. And I think this is really giving me the courage to like step into my truth.

I attempted to make pasta last night from scratch everything. Made my own noodles, made my own sauce. Yeah. And it actually turned out phenomenal. Trad wife. Oh, no, I know. And I'm so excited. And Connor, a couple years ago, was gifted a pasta, whatever, the little wheel thing to, like, make it thin.

Ooh, okay. I didn't have the patience to figure out how to put it together last night. So I did everything with a rolling pin. Wow. Truly. That is very traditional. Four noodles or was it like, like. Did I have what?

Was it like four noodles that you made in it? How many noodles did you have to make? No, it was like a long, well, there's a folding pattern. So you have to fold inwards and then you slice along to make your like fattuccini's, but essentially I made last night. My mouth is watering. make pasta. That's definitely on my bucket list. It's honestly a lot easier than it looks. And it's just like having the patience to like let dose it.

I want to learn. Oh, it's so easy. Did you film it? I like filmed bits and pieces. Okay. I took photos of things. I posted it in my story. But I was just kind of like in case this doesn't turn out.

I don't want to sit here and be like, okay, step one, step two, step three. And plus it's so annoying. Obviously, you know as a content creator, I'm like filming yourself doing anything, which is why we're talking about the whole trad wife thing isn't real. It's so exhausting and it makes everything take that much. longer. So it's like if I can snap a picture while doing it, great if it turns out even better. But like, I'm just doing this for myself to see if I enjoy this. Fun. If my fiance

likes it, then like, hey, maybe have you like once so big, we're like, we could start making pastas together. Cute. You know what's interesting with this whole trad wife conversation is like, it really makes you realize how much cooking for others is such an intimate and sweet act. You know what I mean? Like, it's so sweet to do for somebody. So on point with that because I will say I've resisted cooking for the longest time just because I feel like there's too much going on. It's too hot. By the time I'm done cooking, I'm either in a pissy mood. I've gotten burnt. I'm not hungry anymore. So like all of the things where I'm like I'm so glad enjoy everyone else. But I will say that I'm like, yeah, where it's like yeah, where it's like, yeah, where it's like, do I really want to make fucking pasta from scratch? No, but I said I was going to do it yesterday. He let me slide. I should just do it. And like as I was doing it, it was just like one of those things where, yeah, like where it's like, oh, I'm making this. with love for my partner and I really hope you like it. And they're always like, how does it taste? You know, and they're like, oh, my God, thank you. Yeah. And I was single. I was just like, I didn't. There's some peanut butter on a piece of bread called dinner. Cooking was depressing. Yeah. I was like, I don't know.

As a single person, like for me, so this is why I love cooking. I don't do it all the time. I only do it when I want to. That's something I got from my mom. She's like, I'm only cooking if I want to. And oftentimes she wants to. And there's something so, like one of my favorite. favorite things to do on, usually I'll do it on a Saturday afternoon, I'll go get my groceries, and I'll buy like flowers, I'll buy like a bottle of wine and whatever I want to make for dinner. And then usually on Sunday night, as I'm kind of like preparing to like get back in the week to fight the Sunday scarries, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Like I make myself a nice little dinner and I have bought myself flowers and I like have a little

bit of wine. And I'm like, you know, like I'm doing like I'm going to do it for me. Self care. Yeah, it's like, but also it's like a thing I deeply would love to do. for someone else. It's also like romanticizing your life. Like, you know what I mean? We should all be romanticizing our lives.

I have to eat. Honestly, I don't drink at home anymore for years now. I'm like only a social drinker. Last night was the first time that like I popped open a bottle of wine and just like poured myself a glass. Like I was halfway through cooking. But it's just like there's something that just like feels nice with having a glass of wine and like preparing a meal and just being like, okay, I'm in my flow zone.

Yeah. I think. Yeah. Yeah. This job has really made me think about like obviously we talk about relationships. all the time and I've been single the entire time I've worked here. And like I do prioritize like having a relationship with myself. I love that. And I think it's beautiful.

And I was just thinking about that with this whole trad wife. Like I'm my own trad wife. Be your own trad wife. Be your own trad wife. Be your own trad wife. Cook for yourself. Yeah. For yourself.

Well, just from an emotional standpoint, like if you're taking care of yourself, you'll be ready when the right person shows up, you know? So regardless of the cooking and all that. But if you're like caring for yourself and loving yourself, then like, you're doing all the right things to. Well, before we get to Patty, don't forget the Val Fowles Plus is ad-free and available to you all. And if you want to get more content of your favorite reality TV shows, dive deep in the weeds and dissect relationships like Jacks and Lori and talk about all your favorite reality TV shows. We get into the weeds on our reality recap deep dives.

We also have our pop extra episodes where we dive even deeper on your favorite pop culture topics and all the crazy things that are going on in today's world. Also, your favorite updates on your favorite estimate calls are available. on your update special episodes. So in addition, you can listen to Justin and Mary Wax Poetic and all the trials and tribulations of the Gen Z world out there. We did talk about Walt Disney's potential Frozenhead in Disney World. So, you know. Ooh.

Lots of conspiracy theories. All right. Up next, Patty talks all things, finances, and relationships. And we get into some Meredith First Sight and some Orange County and all the above. Next. Patty, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. How are you?

I am well, how are you? I'm great. Well, tired. I'm a little tired. Yeah, you look a little tired. What's going on? It's true. We like the truth around here.

Yeah. Twins. That's right. You just had twins. I didn't. My wife did. Nice. Good on you.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I mean, too. Yeah, we're starting on the right track. I love it. We love to see it. It's been great. It's been a little tiresome.

River's also going through. Well, she's getting older. And she's in this really very, always cute. always adorable. But like she is, you know, learning fast and she's speaking and she's like understanding, but also like I'm no child psychologist, but I think like the two-year-old brain is highly emotional. Yes.

You know, it has a hard time processing. We've taught River how to apologize, which is great. You know, but now she does the thing where she just, she'll like hit you and go, I'm sorry. She's just practicing. She did as you asked. And then she'll look at you and know. Right. I mean,

she knows better, you know. And but it's also, uh, I, we need some kind of child. It's like, I'll just to walk now and I through this because it is, I imagine a lot of parents with, with two year olds are struggling. Because it's like, do, I think you're old enough to know better, but she's highly emotional. She doesn't listen. But it's really cute. Yeah.

It's a lot, you know. And when it was just river, it was, oh, it was all cute. But now when you have. have like twins and River. There are moments where Nali and I are looking at each other. You're like, you guys are all just annoying. This is a lot. What did I sign up for? And when the twins cry, it's just like you, now you? Like, can't you just the same time?

Take turns? Yeah. Yeah. It's, but anyways, I'm great. How are you? I'm great. I'm happy to be here. We're happy to have you. Thanks. You have a fascinating book. Never Date a Broke Dude. Yeah. Love the title. Where were you in my 20s? That's why I wrote it. Thank you. Because so many women say the same things. Like, where were you in my 20s?

I wish I had known that. Yeah. Did you get any pushback from this book? Like, is it like, you know, you did? Yes, actually. Because we were talking about trad wives' son on Tuesday. Yes. And a lot of people were like, welcome to the conversation.

So I'm happy to be here. Because I wasn't really paying attention to it. But now it's, I'm fascinated by it because there's just a lot of discourse. Like a lot of people have a lot of opinions about the roles of, of how to run a household. And it's just, yeah, it's, you know, as a lot of conversations online are silly. Yeah, I mean, I got a pushback, to be honest,

even from my publishers, because they thought that the title. Was sexist or something? Yeah, like, that, you know, people would look at it and be like, oh, I don't want to have anything to do with this. But the subtitle is the financial freedom playbook, right? So the title, never dated a broke dude,

is a catchy title. And there is a chapter about that. And I came up with it because I dated two broke men in my life, which caused me. A lot of, thank you, God, it was horrible. You're lucky. These broke dusty dudes. Like, I just won after another, you know.

I'm like, oh, my God. So I talk about that. That's a chapter in the book, but it's really about teaching women financial independence. That's the most important thing. And being broke is not about money. It's about being with someone that matches your ambition, drive, work ethic, commitment. All of that is important. It's not really about a dollar amount.

Yes. It's like, I'm blanking on her name, Carmela. Carmela, the new OC housewife. Yes. When she was talking about her mom told her to like, it's easier to marry rich than... Marry a doctor. Yeah, marry a doctor or something. And she was just like, I'll never teach my daughters that it's easier to make the money yourself.

Absolutely. And I'm like, I agree with that so wholeheartedly. Yeah, because if it's someone else's money, they always have control over your life. That's the problem. My mom always told me, have your own money. She's like, it's okay to combine and do whatever, but like always make sure that you have a way to provide for yourself no matter what. When a relationship starts, there's a financial. disparity in the relationship when a man and a woman meet. Do you think there's a difference if the man

has more money at the time they start dating versus the woman has the money? Well, I think it changes the dynamics in the relationship. So here's the thing when men are like, well, it doesn't matter because rich men have married broke women, you know, forever. And I'm like, yeah, but men lead with money. This is why a dude with money is happy with the gorgeous, you know, Russian who model who's like, you know, literally, a Russian model who is 30 years younger than him, he's bald, he's not good looking,

but he's like, okay, I can provide a lifestyle for you, and I'm good with that. But when the woman makes more money, we really want to know, does this dude like us for us? Does he really love us?

And if he doesn't, we are not good with him just wanting us for our money. You're not interested in taking him shopping. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But men are. Hey, you know,

and that's how they win the girl. Okay. I think for me, if I were, if the guy were broke, broke. No, I would not be interested. Right. If you said something earlier that I loved, it's more about ambition. Yep. Matching ambition. So like if somebody is on the on the up enough, if somebody is

pouring into something, maybe they don't have like total financial freedom or there's like not super wealthy, but I'm like, but if I see the work ethic, that's not going to scare me away if somebody's not like Uber rich or like or even makes the same amount of money as me. Like I'm like, okay, cool. As long as I see the work ethic and the ambition, I'm like, okay, I can work with this. That's what it's about. Otherwise it's a turnoff. Totally a turnoff. It's such a turnoff to like be this ambitious person and working your ass off and then this dude is sitting on the sofa eating Cheetos. You know, like your penis goes limp immediately. I was going to say, I feel like there's something that goes hand in hand with like a man that has no ambition, no job, but also like the love bombing. Yes. Because I feel like that's how it's like, that's how you got on my couch. You know what I mean?

That's all we have. It's like, oh my God, I love you so much. And you're like, okay, he loves me so much. I guess I'll see you when I get home from work. That's the way it was for me. I'm like, oh my God. So let me ask you this. Outside of showing each other's bank accounts or salaries, how do you, how do you identify a broke dude? Well, you identify a broke dude by seeing what patterns he has as far as how he spends money, for example, right? So you will look at a guy, I dated a guy who like, as soon as he got paid, oh, we were a living high. We'd go to the restaurants, you know, whatever. And then when the week went by, he didn't have any money. Tightening up. He's tightening up, right? Oh, we can't. Oh, I'm.

don't get paid until next week. I'm like, dude, you live in paycheck to paycheck. So you identify that. And you talk to them. You talk about their ambitions. Hey, what do you, what did you do today? Oh, I went to the gym and I play video games all day. Like, that's, that's pretty broke mentality. Okay. And if they have a job? Depends on what kind of job. And are they good with the job? Are they just starting out, like you were saying? Like, if someone's just starting out, they're building something, they're building a company. They may not have a lot of money, but you see them working their ass off, and have ambition.

Would you agree? I've always thought that for the ladies out there, beware of men, especially in their 30s, who complain about their job? Yes, yes, because these men are victims. Anybody that's complaining about their job

is a victim. It's like, okay, you don't like your job. Do something about it. Go to school, you know, learn a trade, do something different. You're sitting there complaining. No, that's victim mentality. Nobody wants that.

I'm like, we can start businesses from our kitchen. So like figure it out. No, absolutely. You can literally sit on your sofa and start a business. Literally. So yeah. Yeah.

Do you have any advice for broke dudes who are dating who are ambitious, but they're just not rich yet? Yes, I do. I do have advice for them. So my advice is that if you're going to take a girl out, okay, first of all, you don't have to take them to the most expensive place, but take them to somewhere cool. Like I remember this guy didn't have a lot of money that I was dating. He took me to this like hole in the wall, Thai food place. That I thought was really cool.

It was an experience. It was fun. So it doesn't always have to be about money. But you also want to make sure that you let them know that you have bigger ambitions, bigger goals, that this isn't it for you. And I remember a guy telling me that I thought that was really sexy. He's like, look, I'm building a business. I'm going to be working, you know, 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day. I'm like, okay, that's hot.

Obviously, there's certain careers that have various earning potential. Educators, obviously, are notoriously known for being right at their job and necessary. in society and sadly in many cases don't make a lot of money on marriot at first sight we have what's it the coach who's the coach what's his name Cameron Cameron who like you know we know that a lot of basketball coaches can make millions but it's like that's like the top half like one percent of one percent and then there's a lot of people like Cameron who's you know like division one a you know like whatever just not the upper echelon and he's you know and and he's now married to a woman who's like I want my man to make at least $150,000.

Yeah. It seems like Cameron is a very like career focused, hardworking. I mean, to be a basketball coach is a, is a full, like it's more than a full-time job. You really have to grind it out. So what do you think of that situation where a young lady meets a man who is not making a ton of money? Yeah. Not making the amount of money that she, you kind of identifies as the goal salary.

But there's potential there, you know, but you know, even Cameron is. It may not happen. Like there are a finite amount of jobs out there for Cameron to make it rain, so to speak, if he wants to stay in coaching. Yeah. So let me tell you what bothered me about that entire situation the most with Michelle and Cameron. Is that the second that she decided that she liked him, she was like, oh, okay, money doesn't matter without asking any questions. So if you're in that type of situation, you need to ask certain questions like, okay, how much do you actually make? I don't know if she asked that.

Maybe it was on camera. Right. But how much do you actually make? And what is the potential for you to make more? Do you want to make more? What does that look like? Does that happen one year and five years and ten years? Because then she can know, okay, if I am with this dude,

next year, maybe he's going to make $200,000 a year. Great. Or, oh, I have to wait 10 years. And in Michelle's situation, a lot of people like shame Michelle for asking that and even Nikki for wanting to date someone that makes $2.50. And I'm like, why are you shaming these people? because, for example, Michelle, she's frozen or ex. She has to do IVF.

That is not cheap. So she's going to marry some dude. He better be able to pitch in for the IVF or she may not even have children. So it's really important to make sure that she asks questions to make sure that her goals and the things that she wants in life isn't given up over love, which is bullshit. Do you have any thoughts on? Because it's like a common thing you've seen online where it's just like they'll ask, you know, often ladies, how much do you want your, your. your partner to make and it's always like 150,000, 250,000. Most people just don't make that much money. You're limiting your dating pool to like literally like 1% of the options out there. So is and a lot of

people will push back and be like you have unrealistic expectations for dating because most people aren't lucky enough to make $250,000. You know, it's just not what do you say to that? Well, it depends on who's asking. If you're broke and your requirement is I want someone that makes $250,000, that's just unrealistic, right? Because you haven't done it either. But if you're financially successful, if you are making $150,000, then I think it's valid to say,

I want someone that makes $150,000. But like you were saying, to your point about educators, I have no problem with marrying a professor, for example, who may not make that much money, but he or she is working, right? Is active, is doing something,

has goals, has ambitions. I think that's okay. So you just can't limit it to money only. I'm curious. I don't know if you have the answer to this, but if there's a high earning woman and she meets somebody who's maybe in a profession that's like, obviously the work ethic has to be there. It's career-oriented. I think something like maybe a professor, I don't know. I feel like some professors do make a lot of

money, but either that or like a firefighter or somebody who's like. Firefighter. You know, like it's like a great career, but maybe they don't have the highest earning potential. Is it difficult for two people in those situations to make something like that work because I'm thinking like from a female perspective like would that be hard like I guess I don't I just don't know I don't know it depends on what the expectations of the woman is okay so if she is okay with either dialing back her lifestyle because if you're used to vacationing at four seasons and you're with this guy either you have to pay for him to do that because he can't afford to do that or you're just not going to do that yeah so you really have to think through how much is this going to

impact my lifestyle. How important is my lifestyle? Because I won't be able to maintain it unless I'm paying for everything. And then am I going to be okay doing that? Yeah. And if you are, then that's fine. But make sure that you really are. And you're not just saying you are because you have love goggles on. And you just see this amazing thing about this guy. And you're just giving up your dreams. Okay. So I also have another question. There was a lot of discussion about this conversation being emasculating to men? What are your thoughts on that and like how can the conversation move forward in a sensitive manner, I guess? Or do you even prescribe to that notion? I think men need to get over it. Seriously, like, get over it. Everything's like emasculating to them. Anything that doesn't pander to a guy's ego

is considered emasculating. And I think that's bullshit because we don't have those same sensitivities when it comes to women. So, yeah, I think men just need to get over that. I was thinking about that when you were talking about asking the question about how much somebody makes. And I'm like, I feel like maybe societally I've been taught that that's almost like a taboo thing to do or that it's evasive for me to be like on a first date or a couple dates in being like, hey, if this is going to continue? That's a good question. At what point? Yeah. At one point is it acceptable to have that conversation? And is there a certain form of tact or something? Or is it better to just be direct? And if that person gets offended, it is what it is. Okay. Here's the point. The point is when you think that this could be,

something serious. If it's potentially something serious, then you have the conversation. And the way that you have the conversation is, listen, I see something long term with you. Do you see something long term with me? Yes, we do. Okay, great. The number one reason the relationships end is money. Yep. Okay. So, really? Yes, that is the number one reason. Not cheating. Not because somebody got tired. Not because somebody got bored. It's money. I didn't know that. Yeah. And then this is why these dating shows don't work because if you see like married at first sight, they match for everything. Okay. Attachment style, values, right? What you like to eat, what you like to do. They never talk about money. The number one indicator for divorce. Right. Interesting. So you have that conversation.

You say, listen, we're going to be serious. We need to also be naked as far as our finances. We need to be financially intimate. And then I have seven questions that every person should ask. happy to talk about it if they do it naked it'd be cool that'd be fun yeah you strip down you open up your bank account you're fully naked you're like I would and that's so hot I would right answer to these seven questions is an article of clothing yes exactly I was gonna say honestly though if you start with being naked and then the conversation goes bad then you're just sitting there naked like oh my god you're well yeah let me put my clothes back on oh that's what your bank account looks like yeah yeah yeah but you have to ask yeah yeah

what are the seven questions all right here we go number one okay what what are your financial goals so you're asking them do you want to buy a house because I want to buy a house maybe they don't have the same financial goals as you do okay okay you have to make sure that they align okay number two what is your debt to income ratio who yes that that that is the one that scares me like not for me for first of all the question is because I think it's a it's a hidden you can hide that like when you're dating somebody they can take you on extravagant dates whatever but it's like you might have $20,000 in credit card debt.

Absolutely. That's terrifying. Absolutely. And that is what debt to income ratio is your total debt payments divided by your monthly gross income. If that is over 43% they're about to be broke. Literally, they're about to be broke. Number three, what is your credit score?

You can't even rent a fucking apartment without a good credit score, period. Right. So you need to know what is it. And if you're going to buy a house with this fool and his credit score is bad, you have to pay five points more on your mortgage than if his credit was good. or if you want to buy a car, whatever. And for the people who don't know what the actual impact is, if let's say you're buying, in this market, fuck,

let's say you're buying a half a million dollar house, what would five points of interest rate cost you over, say, 10 years? That would be $125,000. Yeah, that's crazy. About that much, yeah. More. And that's based on your credit. In addition.

And that's just, that's not you paying towards the house. Right. That's just money that's just money that's. goes to the bank. Isn't that awful? Yeah. That's just like bonus. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I asked. Okay. Okay. Number four, right? What are your spending habits? And that includes how much money do you make? Are you a saver? Are you a spender? Hey, you make this much money. Okay, do you have a savings account? Do you have an emergency fund? Are you investing? What does that look like? Because you have to make sure that it aligns with what you're doing, all right? Number five, how are we structuring the finances in the marriage?

So do we have joint accounts? Do we have separate accounts? Do we have separate accounts and the one joint account for the household expenses? How are we dividing everything? 50-50? How do we expect that? Number six, what is your philosophy around children and money? Are they going to go to private school? Are they going to go to public school? I can't tell you how many couples who sit across the table from me. They're like, I never agree for a private school. Now I have to pay for private. They don't even think about that. Right. Kids are going to work? Pay for the college. How is that going to work? And lastly is, do we have to support anybody else? Because any, yeah, any mama's born Persian dude is going to want to support his mama. Right. And you need to know if I want to support my aunt. I want to support this. Do we have to support anybody else financially in this marriage?

Those are great questions. I know. I know. I wrote a book. What if you're dictmatized? Do you have a chapter on that? Yes. It's really talks about how those love goggles fade that you cannot be in love with somebody in the beginning and make all your decisions based on that.

It just fades after a while. Obviously, everyone's circumstances are different. And if there's one person who makes Buku Bucks and then the other person doesn't, it might look different. But generally speaking to like the average group of people, is there a system that you recommend? Like, do you think people should just combine or should people pay into an account? I think that everyone should have their own bank account that their paycheck goes into. Okay. And then if you want, you can have a joint account that you use for household expenses.

And the way you decide how much each person contributes is each person contributes the same percentage of their income. So one person could be making a lot more than the other. But since you're contributing the same percentage, it makes it a lot more fair. I love that. That makes so much sense. Yeah. What advice do you have for women in their 20s not to get serious? but then it's like you almost like learn these hard lessons because two years in at 22 you're like I'm 24 maybe we'll get married right what advice do you have for women specifically in the dating world like what should they be holding onto themselves financially before like that should stay their own before getting into a relationship well you should never get married unless you can support yourself independently yourself okay period like you should be able to have money for yourself being able to support yourself because if that

that doesn't happen, you're always going to go into a relationship hoping that this person is going to give you some money and that's going to be a factor in your decision as to whether you like this individual or not, right? So you should have your own money. You should be able to support yourself. You should have a savings. You should have investment accounts and you should have an emergency fund. These are all the things that every person in their 20s needs to have before you even think about getting into a relationship and getting married. What if somebody's, because I know at certain points my 20s, I was broke. There were times when I had money, there were times where I was broke, but I was still dating. If somebody's in the place where they're just like not making a lot of

money and they don't have an investment account, they don't have savings, would you say like they shouldn't be dating at all until they get that in check? Or should they continue dating and just have that as a goal to start setting themselves up financially so that when they get married, they'll have that. I think dating is okay. As long as you understand that you are not ready to get married. Unless you have all of those things, like I said, you really are not on solid ground, so you're not ready to get married. So it's okay if you day. Are there any loopholes? And I guess what I mean by that is like, this is all great advice. I imagine a lot of people listening to it, kind of to your question, it's just like, well, what? Like, I can't get married or I can't,

like, I can't really get into a committed relationship. Are there situations where, let's say, a couple gets together, the woman is making more money than the man. He's, He might have ambitions and dreams and all these things. But is there a way that a couple can, you know, figure out, you know, the role they play, getting into the trad wife stuff, right? Like the trope being like, oh, well, the trad wife, like, relationship is like, oh, he has a lot of money. I will make sandwiches, you know, and then even Steven, you know. And so let's say the woman makes a lot more money.

Is there something a man could do in that relationship to, to do his part, so to speak, in a way that makes it feel like, well, hey, I guess I'm making more of the money, but I'm, I'm, as a man, you know, like, I don't know, maybe I'm mopping the floor, you know, like, maybe I'm clean. Yes, somebody's got to do that. You know, like, does that work in those relationships? I think so, as long as the man is willing. I think the problem is that men have been so brainwashed and inculcated to believe that if you

do that, you're not a man, you're not masculine, you're not this, you're not that, and it doesn't work. But if a man is evolved, I certainly think it's fine for him. If the wife's going to go and work and they're like, okay, we really want someone to take care of our children and we don't want a nanny to be present, it's okay if a man decides, okay, I'm going to sit home,

I'm going to do everything that a traditional wife would do, and I'm okay with that. I don't think there's anything like that. What do you think of the risks of trad wife? Because have you seen the trad wife thing happening? Yes. Maybe not creators. Yeah.

What do you think about that? Oh my God. It is the biggest brainwashing of women ever. Because what they're doing is they're putting this lifestyle out there and they're selling, they're putting like a big bow on being powerful when they have zero power. Like you can't be powerful and have zero power in the relationship. And they're putting their entire lives into somebody else's hands. Because when you don't work, when you don't have your own income,

when you're constantly deferring to someone else, you're not living for you. They're making decisions for you in your life. And the second, that money runs out, the second that relationship ends, the second that they don't have, you know, that man providing for them, they're fucked because what are they going to do at that point?

They don't have any skills. They don't have any education. They don't know how to do anything. They can't even earn an income. They can't even go rent an apartment in case something goes bad. They can't pay for their cell phones. And the number one reason

that women's standing in, abusive relationships is not because they're in love with their abusers. It's because they don't have the money to leave. And in a trad wife situation, you don't have the money to leave. And guess what? He knows that. And he understands that. I think, and this just made me think of something, I've always been super ambitious and never had the desire to be a stay-at-home mom entirely. I want to be a mom someday. But I do think, based on where you live, certain opportunities or even just like your upbringing, like some opportunities aren't available to you. And I think that you, and I think that's, you're think people find themselves in situations like that. But if you're listening to this and you are in a

situation like that, I think a really green flag from a guy, if you do find yourself in a situation where you don't have money, you don't have savings, you don't have education, is to be with somebody who encourages those things in you. So like maybe you're starting a relationship with somebody and you don't have any of that. But if the person you're with is like, you should continue your education or like, let's find a way for you to, you know, build your assets. Because I think obviously as a, you know, you as a provider, like, it's great for someone to just be like, I want to pay for your whole lifestyle. But also, like, it's great to encourage your partner to, like, develop themselves. So some people obviously don't have the means. But if you're, if you're listening to this and

you're like in that situation, like look for those green flags in a partner. A person who loves you wants you protected. Yeah. Period. So however that looks, that means, hey, why don't you start working? Why don't you build a skill? Or guess what? I'm going to, I'm going to give you your own account. And I'm going to fund that every month. So you have money for yourself. So you're not always worried about, oh my gosh if something goes wrong what am I going to do yeah so the person who loves you also wants you protected not to my own horn okay let's hear it well but you know here we go when nal and i met and we started dating there was a huge difference in our earning she had her own career yeah so that for me made me a lot like feels secure that she didn't need me even though like obviously when we started

dating, there was a huge difference. But as soon as we started dating, I just, and I didn't really think about this, or it wasn't like something I was intentional about. I have a huge belief in my wife. And she, I think, is ultra talented. And so when we first started dating, it was, what are your dreams? Like, what do you want to do? You know? And it was me always encouraging her to be like, you were capable of literally whatever you want to do. And so, like, I've just put a lot of energy and effort in making sure that she fulfills her dreams. And now she's a host of a Netflix show. She, you know, helps host.

She's on the pod. She's a big part of this show. And now she has, she has literally her own business. Right. And now she's like, you know, she definitely doesn't need me financially. But yeah, it was just more about like to that point, just like, I just believed in her. And I wanted her to think that if she wanted to, she could become more financially independent, even though in a relationship with me,

she had that security. But it wasn't about, it wasn't like, hey, you can't count on me. It wasn't like, we never really talked about money. It was more about, you know, if we do the thing that we were doing, which is like we got married and we had kids and we did the whole family thing,

forget about all that. I still wanted her to accomplish her individual dreams and her individual successes, even as my wife and even as a mother, even to this day, you know, and we're lucky enough to have help. But for me, it's just like the help is about like when you need a break or when you want to have freedom and when you want to get the fuck out of the house, when you want to do whatever the fuck you want, like that's what I want our help for. And then whenever you have an ambition or a dream or something you want to pursue, you know, like I want to encourage her to do that. That's amazing. And, you know, to be honest, you've always been very open minded like that. And you've never struck me as an insecure dusty dude. And it's those insecure dusty dudes that don't want.

their significant others to succeed because they're threatened by that. My goal is to be a trad wife. Oh, perfect. I want, I want, I'm like, I'm aging out, you know,

I'm trying to get my wife to be the primary breadwinner. She's going to upgrade. You're run through. That's a run through guy. I just, I can, I'm really good at ironing, you know,

and I find a lot of personal satisfaction in it. Oh, did you watch Rhode Island, Real House was in Rhode Island? Oh, girl, yes. What did you think of the, it was Rula, right?

Rula and her husband with the, is it a pizza shop or? Oh, no, no, no. That's different relations. Oh, Alicia. That's Alicia. Yes, I did a lot of content around this. Oh, okay.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on those conversations and their dynamic. Yeah. So it was really ridiculous that she's been with this guy for nine years, right? And she doesn't have shit in her name. And she is afraid to ask. That is what tells you how brainwashed women are. Is that she helps him with the business, right? She puts it on fucking national television for everybody to see it.

She's built it out. And she is afraid, like she's literally trembling when she's asking him. Hey, can I have a part of this business? Yeah. Right? And then when she asks, she asked for 10%. 10%? Are you kidding? I just put you on national television. Yeah. At least you should be giving me 40. Hey, I like the way she thinks. Well, it's true. It's so true. She did. I didn't even think about the fact that she brought it. I'm not going to put, I'm not going to talk about the pizza business unless.

Absolutely. That's what she should have done. But I realize that the reunion, I thought it was a Billy problem, which is her husband or not husband, France or whatever. It's actually an Alicia problem because Billy, was like, I asked her to sit down every month to go with the finances. And she's like, I'm just bored with that. Oh, Billy. I'm just bored with that. And that's the whole girl math. That's the whole women aren't good with money. That's the whole the man should really be the one handling the finances bullshit. Another housewife situation, I'm curious what you think, Jen Padranti on Orange County. We obviously saw through her divorce and whatnot and her having no idea about finances to where she's immediately now in this new relationship with Ryan who is also supporting her entire family. And it sounds like the ex-husband's not involved in the kids' lives.

Right. And getting the child support, all this stuff. So it's like when you see her situation, like, A, how would you help her? And like, where do you think she went wrong? I think she went wrong in that she never figured out how to make money on her own to support herself. She went from one guy controlling her to another guy controlling her. And she doesn't see it as control yet. yet until some shit happens where she's going to be like, oh my God, if I don't do this, he's not

going to support me or my kids, right? And that's a really dangerous situation to put yourself in and your children. Yeah. So she needed to take a beat, have a life of your own. You're getting some money, I'm sure decent money from the housewives. She's been off for a few seasons now. So learn how to support yourself, get on your feet. And then when you're whole, then you can be with some dude that, you know, you guys can build something together. But she's literally one bad argument away from her entire life falling apart. Yeah, because they were talking about her sons and whatnot. And Ryan was trying to give advice about like the needing connection with the dad.

And it was just like, she didn't want to hear it. But then she was like, I know you're going to get fed up too because this is a lot on you. But it was like, it's weird how she somehow like paints herself as the victim where it's like in the same sense where the situation is Ryan is literally telling you that like, this is a lot. I didn't sign up to father all of your ex-husband's kids, you know? So I'm just, it's sad watching it, but I'm just like, I think it's just such a good example of like, because I thought all the women went really hard on her, her first season, talking about her finances, which is also kind of humiliating.

Yeah, it really is. But at the same time, I'm like, when you're a victim of your circumstances in the sense of not knowing any better, but I'm like, at some point, you have to learn from your mistakes. So hopefully she'll, like, start a business or something. It's the victim mentality. It's easier to be a victim than to get a job. Right. Damn.

It really is. What are your thoughts on Amanda and Kyle from Summerhouse? I'm not sure if you saw. Oh, yeah. They didn't get a pre-nup. And what are your thoughts on, I guess, pre-nups in general in that situation? Pre-nups are 100% necessary. Do you have one?

Yes? Yeah. Okay, good, great. Okay. I'm pro pre-nept, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. I feel like everyone should have one. Every single person.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think most people don't realize is everyone who gets married, signs a pre-nob. And what I mean by that is... Tell me what you mean about that. Well, because every state that you get married in has its own marriage laws. And if you don't do your own individual pre-nub, the pre-nub that you basically sign is the one that the state has basically already come up with.

Yes. And all a pre-nub is is saying, well, we're not going to rely on whatever state we're in. We're going to come up with our own agreement. Agreement based on our situation because every situation is unique. Absolutely, because if you don't, if you don't have a pre-up, it's not just the state law, but it's the judge in front of you that has unresolved issues is going to decide who's going to get what. Wow, I never thought about that. Yeah. It's not just, yeah, it's the state laws, obviously, but it's really up to the judge to determine that. And you don't know who you're going to get across from you.

And what lawyers you can afford at that point. Absolutely. Yeah. And this is why pre-up is really important. But the most important thing about a pre-up that people don't understand, especially when, you're going to be a pre-up, especially when. women, okay, is that you don't have a static pre-up. Do you guys know what that is? No. Okay. So here's what a static pre-up means you take a snapshot of what he or she, whatever, has at a certain time before you get married. And then that is what you will get. So for example, I did a video about Kevin Costner's wife. He, before he blew up, now he's worth $400 million. It said in their pre-up that she was going to get $1.4 million. That was it. Because back then he didn't have to. He didn't have that much money. And $1.4 million compared to what he had back then was amazing, right?

20 years later, she's raised all the kids. She's helped him build this empire. He's not going to be able to do it without her, right? 20 years later, they get a divorce. And guess what? She gets $1.4 million. Is that what happened? Yes. And she was trying to fight it. Now, I don't know what happened, but that happened with Lisa Hoxton, too, from Miami. Yeah. So she signed a static pre-op. And is there another type of pre-up or they're all static? Yes. So, no, in your pre-up, the pre-up has to grow when he grows or she grows. Okay, so it says, if your income grows, so does what I get.

Yeah. If you're a founder, for example, if you sell a company, I get a piece of that. For every child I have, I get this much more. If we are in this marriage for 10 years, the pre-up expires. There has to be escalation clauses. things like that and the pre-nup. So you're not stuck, you know, supporting some dude for 25 years in his damn career on your free labor.

And then next thing you know, you're getting, you know, the little crumbs that he had when you first got married. That's bullshit. And there's like clauses for everything. Isn't there like a lot? Like in the sense of like, oh, if they cheat, then it's like, nope, I get half and you pay for the child support or like, you know what I mean? Where I'm like, I do think it's so important to have those types of protections.

My question to you, what's the difference between a pre-nup and a post-nup, obviously, besides the before and after. But like, does a post-nup protect you in the same way that a pre-up would? Yeah. So a post-nop does protect you. So if you don't have a pre-nup, you can get a post-nop and say this is the way that we're deciding that the assets are going to be divided in case something happens. Is a post-nup like an agreement that a couple comes up with like after they got married

that they both decide to sit down and say for whatever reason? Yep. It's after marriage. And you can still, you can have a pre-nop and then have a post-nup, which is either you can amend your pre-up. Okay. If it's static or something happened, whatever, or you can have a post-nup and say, okay, this is going to be instead of the pre-up, the pre-nup's gone.

This is the way we're going to divide our assets now. That's great information. Yeah. Even if somebody doesn't have a lot of assets, like at either side, should they still get a pre-up, in your opinion? Well, your pre-up really protects the assets that you have going into the marriage. Okay. But you can say, going into the marriage, whatever we earn is ours.

right is our own or how we are going to divide property if we were to buy a property this is what it's going to look like okay so you can you can set future goals okay cool but how does that work like for example like so two people they come in they don't have a lot of assets or money but like maybe you know one of them has a big like business plan and it's you know hasn't popped yet but they pretty sure it's going to pop but to your point like you know for for me like the way i look at it's just like, you know, ours was like very simple because again, when we first met, there was more financial disparity in our relationship. But again, like, I've talked about like my life in every measurable way is better with now, you know, like I just. You came up, dude. Yeah. Yeah, but and she's been a

big part of it. No, I know. I couldn't have done it without her, you know. So like, it's easy for me to be like, yeah, no, for sure. Like, you know, we've, we've done, we did this together. But yeah, wouldn't that just fall under like wouldn't she or he get like be able to entitled to share that? Yes. And you can dictate that in the pre-up. Yeah. You can say either my business about to blow up and I'm not going to give you shit or my business about to blow up and you're going to help me get through this. So once it does, you'll get X amount of dollars.

Like for Tom and Ariana from Vanderpump Rules and how they bought that house together. Yeah. Not married. And then broke up. He's mistake. would be the if somebody who's not married wants to like live with somebody and get a home together just don't i mean i my sister did this she she she bought a house with her then fiancee i mean it's like yeah you never you're basically like getting you're financially married at that point you're financially

tied to this person no matter what and if the relationship ends you are you are you are financially connected to this house and and they they bought the house like before like the 2008 housing crisis like it was literally about the house market crashed worst case scenario literally worst case scenario and then she found out he had a gambling problem you know and all that fun stuff and it was like it was a nightmare for a few years you know and she was stuck dealing with this guy long after the relationship ended because they had a house together the ariana and you know it's like the worst thing you can do if you're not ready to marry someone then you shouldn't be ready to buy a house with someone because like you are literally

all accounts, you're essentially married to this person. No, you are. Because you're financially connected and you have to, you have to get a lawyer to get out of that situation. Right. And what's the difference between that in marriage? Is the biggest purchase you will ever make in your life, typically, your home? So do you want me to tell you how to do it? That's what I was going to say. Is there, is there a smart way for two people to enter some sort of situation like that if they're not ready for marriage? So I will give you myself as an example. Okay. Okay. So I live with my fiancee. I'm never getting married. Okay. And he knows that. It's, we're just going to be committed for rest of our lives, okay?

I love. But get that jewelry, baby. I mean, yeah. So it's just what it is. You know, I don't want to be married. He knows that. We're fine. But I wanted to buy a house.

And we were going to move in together. So this is what I did. I bought the house. The house is my name. Okay? Not in his name. He doesn't own any part of it. However, we have an agreement that he's going to pay X amount of dollars into the home.

And whatever money he is adding to the home, if the house, were to be sold, it would go as equity for him. Okay. Yeah. So if we were to sell the house tomorrow, I would get back the money that I put in for the down payment and the money that I've paid. And then there's a calculation of how much money have you put into this. I get my money back.

And then whatever is left based on the percentage that he's contributed to the house, he gets that amount. Right. And that's a legal document. Love that. I like your vibe. It's so fascinating about it. It's like it's so kind of based.

it makes so much sense and no one very few people do that yeah and it's such a it's it's fairly easy math it's it's so easy it literally is so easy and people don't do it again because it's not romantic or scary it's scary god i don't want to bring it up what if he feels like this what it starts a fight oh it's the whole thing yeah and people are scared and it's really crazy too because the idea is you know it's an uncomfortable conversation during that time especially if you you know, you, when you sign a pre-nub before you get married, it's like this kind of weird. You're supposed to hire separate lawyers. Or you can hire like, yeah, you're just supposed to hire separate lawyers.

For sure. Which is just weird. Why? Well, just the idea of it. But again, like the conversation is like, listen, of course we don't plan on separating or getting divorced. We can't predict the future. Right. And if everything goes our way, this is a non-issue.

Exactly. We have nothing to worry about. Exactly. If things go the way, we hope and plan it to go. But if it doesn't and we can't predict the future, then we can both agree that we're going to want, we're going to hate each other. And I can't imagine a world that happens now,

but like let's just imagine a world where it doesn't go our way. We're not going to want to, you know, rely on the old like handshake. You know, but I'll, you know, like people make these promises when they are about to get married, when everything's good. And the idea is, well, I would never do that to you. I would never, I would never leave you high and dry. It's like, well, now you say that because you love me. You, like, you do you don't want to, you know, and so you just have to put on that fantasy

hat of like what this is like it's not you. Like, you have to imagine how you feel about your ex. Well, the person you marry is not the person you divorce. Right. That's one thing you have to know. That person you divorce is not the same motherfucker that you marry. So don't expect it to be. Yeah.

And love is synonymous with hate that I'm just kind of like, yeah, that's, passion. Yes. But it's the saddest thing when you watch people going through divorce, especially when they've been together for long periods of time and you're just like, how could you go from this to that? But I'm like, yeah, when all of a sudden it's like the same relationship has changed. Yeah. It's still love there, but it's like I resent you now. And I'm going to take every action to make you feel how terrible I feel. Right. Depending on what that other person did, right? Right. I mean, there are some marriages, of course, that were just like, okay, we grew apart, right? Nobody cheated. Nobody's disgusting. Nobody's whatever. And they, and they,

can typically agree on things like that, but when shit happens, that is when things go wrong and people become completely different. What are your tips for when it does turn sour emotionally? How can people financially, in the best way possible, create as healthy a divorce as they can? The best way to create the healthiest divorce, right, is, no, no, really, is to be fair and put yourself under other person's shoes. I always say that. Put yourself on the other person's shoes. Be fair. Take the emotion out of it. That's why it's so important just to have separate lawyers, right? Take the emotion out of it because here's the problem. When you go into a contentious divorce, you are going to be paying so much in legal fees. It's not even worth it to be contentious. You're literally paying because you want to be an asshole. And that is,

that's like you'd rather give money to a lawyer than your partner. Then to your kids, right? You may have kids. Like my friend, it took her three years to get a divorce, hundreds of thousands of dollars that could have gone to their children. Right. That could go for their children's education because he decided that he wouldn't be an asshole. Yeah. Or she, you know, vice versa. You got to take the emotion out of it. Right. I think this is like a horrible way to think about it. But somebody told me once when you are seriously considering dating somebody, marrying somebody, think about how they would be to divorce. And I think that's so morbid. And I said that to a boyfriend once. Like we need to think about how that would be.

And I'm like, I know it would be really nice to you. Like I would be super nice. Like I would be really, really nice to divorce. You would be hell. Like you would, you end the relationship. You're kind of hell. But I think that it is morbid or as like horrible as that is. I do think that that is really important because even in this discussion, I'm like,

it's crazy to think about being on the other side of it. And it's like that person's not going to be nice. and I was just talking to a girlfriend who went through a divorce. And even still, she is now in a financially tough situation. And he is constantly picking custody battles with her. And she's like, he's just doing it so that I have to lawyer up, spend more money. Go to court. And I'm like, even if you have all the details worked out, I'm like, somebody can make your life health for 18 years if you have kids with them.

And it's like, as horrible as I does it think. It's important to be like, how would this person treat me? How do they treat other people when they have discrepancies with them? I'm like, what is the, like, how would they approach me? Because that's what you're going to be dealing with. It's the worst version of somebody, potentially. And one of the biggest mistakes that anybody ever makes is having children with the wrong person. Because you are tied to this jerk for the rest of your life.

Whether you like it or not. So true. I was going to say the whole like 18 years thing. No, that's not like 18 years. Weddings. Graduations. I mean, when they have kids. I mean, forever, you are going to see this motherfucker for the rest of your life.

It's like, oh my God, make sure that is the right person. That's why it's so hard. I got my eggs frozen a couple months ago. And that's why it's so hard. Like, I've thought about it. I'm like, do I just like have a baby with somebody? Like, do I just do this? But it's like, no, you got to.

I know. I don't actually think that. But I'm just getting to the point where I'm like, I got to figure it out. And I kind of have that thought sometimes where I'm like, dang, like, it's really, you're really picking somebody to spend the rest of your life with even if you don't marry them. Absolutely. When I was thinking what we were talking about where it was like, how they react to hard questions and whatnot, where it's like, and you don't want to say,

oh, I'm going to put the house in my name because I don't want you to feel emasculated. I don't want you to get upset with me. I don't want to start a fight. But I'm like, if these are the things that you're afraid to happen because you're being honest, then this isn't the person for you. Absolutely. 100%. You know what I mean?

Because somebody would be willing to have a conversation or, yeah, if they get offended, they might like, hey, like, give me a minute so I can process and come back. But if somebody is going to get mad at you or make your life harder because you wanted to protect yourself in a fight. financial way, but that's not saying, I don't love you. It's not saying, I don't want to live with you for the rest of my life. It's just saying, hey, if I put the house in my name, if you leave, you're still going to be taken care of, but it's just one less headache. And so for them to make it an even harder headache for you just to even have the conversation, not your person. It's very revealing.

Would you say green flag, couple dates, she makes more money. She's crushing it. She's financially secure. He's not for whatever reason. Green flag, if he insists on still paying for, the first, like for the dates early on? Or does that not matter? I think that, okay, I don't know if it's a green flag. I think it's nice. I think it's polite. I think, you know, men feel like it shows more interest if they're paying.

And it shows you that he's not cheap. I think that's important. Like you don't have to be like a baller. Just don't be cheap. Like I said, like, well, that's what I mean. I thought of it more of as a green flag where it's just like, one, let's say in this scenario, he's just aware of her success and he is aware that she is financially more successful. And he's not using that as an excuse to be like, oh, well, you make more, you should pay more.

It's just like, I would take it as I'm not there yet, but I'm going to bet on myself. I believe in myself. And yeah, you make more than me, but I still want to, you know, for all the conversations about this, where it gets into like how a man feels about, does he feel like a man? and that's always like this like excuse for men to complain about or feel a certain way about their partner making more money than them. But if he's able to demonstrate a sense of security in himself and a belief in himself where even though she makes more than him, he's still willing to like step up and, you know, not necessarily that not that's his role to pay for more, but like he wants to do that and

he's still not afraid of spending his money and he's not like count, you know, he's not being like, well, you know, like counting the money, so to speak. Yeah, that is definitely a green flag if he's doing it for the reasons that you're saying that he's doing it for. Right. Yeah. If it's for those reasons, it's absolutely a green flag and it's nice and it's considerate. And it's just nice and considerate. Like, you always want to be with someone that's nice and considerate.

Like in the beginning, I don't mind splitting, splitting dates. I really don't. And so many women are like, uh-uh, I'm not going to do that, girl. I got, you know, I got done up and I got this and I got that. you better pay for it. And I'm just like, why? Because at that point, it's just an exchange. Right. Money is just an exchange of energy. That is all it is. Nothing is free. So you can't be like, I'm spending time with you so you got to pay for my dinner. Yeah. I always love the insincere grab for the purse. Oh, yeah. I just want to see you. I kill that. I just want to see you pretend, you know.

I'm like, oh, should I? Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, babe, that's all I needed. I got this. And honestly, like, I know that. You know what I mean? It's the gesture. Because I, and if they let me, I will. I'll put my card down. But I will take note of it. But I'm also, like, 100% going to offer to pay.

But I think it's really nice in the first couple of dates when a guy does pay. Yeah. You know, I feel like if he would let me, like, oh. Well, that's what happens on me. The whole thing? Yeah. Oh, you do. I actually don't have anything in here.

One of the guys that I talked about in my book, our first day, we went to Yamashiro, right? And so the bill comes and then I go, ooh, he's like, okay, literally slides the damn check across the table. No. Yes. You paid for the whole thing. Paid for the whole thing. And then and then it gets worse. The next day, so in my mind, I'm like, well, that's okay.

You know, again, we're trying to justify shit in our brain, right? Because I was so desperate to be in a relationship. So next day he's like, oh, do you want to go to the? Venice Fair with me. I'm like, oh, look, how much he likes me? Yeah. Sure, let's go. We go to the fair. The entire time he's talking about what I'm going to buy him. Okay. He was like, I found a sugar mom. Yeah. Oh, my God. And then we go to like the taco stand and I'm like, he's for sure going to pay for this, right? So he puts in his order. I put in my order and I look around and he's gone. No way. And the guy at the taco stand is looking at me like,

bitch, you got to pay up. I guess. Yeah. Oh my God. That was it. I was like, are you fucking kidding me right now? I would have left to meth a fair. Yeah. Wait, I have a story. Then I'm curious how you guys feel about this. So I went on a first date with a guy.

We got coffee. He paid for the coffee. And second date, we went to Getty Villa. If you don't know it, it's like, it's like a museum, lots of artwork. Beautiful. It is like funded by, I don't know, taxes. I'm not sure. So he gets us our tickets.

I'm like, cool, this is great. We show up and I'm like, you know what, let me get parking because you got the tickets. So he's like, oh, that's so nice. So I pass my credit card over. We pay for parking. We go inside, enjoy the date. You send you a memo, Christ. No.

It's free. It's free to go to the Getty Villa. The tickets are just reservations. It's not something you have to pay for. So he let me pay, I think it was $17 for parking, which I'm like, I got $17. It's fine. But I'm just like, it's the precedent of him letting me think he paid for tickets. lie. He lied to you.

It's a lie. That was a lie. That was a lie, period. Okay. That's how I felt. Yeah. And on the, you know, he's immediately lying to you. He's being deceptive. He's not just lying to you, but he's being deceptive. That's why I think a Venmo request for any man is an immediate no. Yeah, for sure. Because he didn't want to, it's like he didn't want to have the conversation face to face about who's going to pay for what.

But he wanted to have the very passive. God, Venmo, if I ever, ugh. I know. I feel like it's a thing in modern dating, a lot of women are getting Venmo requests for men. Or when they, this is like weird to say, but when girls like don't go home with the guy and then they send a Venmo request because they're like, well,

I mean, I thought we were going to whatever. So they send the Venmo request. Well, they can send all the damn Venmo requests they want. Decline. Guess what? That's just the guy who admits he pays for sex. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's all it is. But that's why women have to be careful too, because I've actually heard women say, well, you know, I'm spending my time with him and I'm having sex with them and I'm doing all this. The least he can do is pay for my dinner. And it's just like, that's just prostitution. The death of romance.

Yeah, that's just what that is. So women really have to be careful about that. I had one more question. It kind of has to do with Marriott for a site because during one of the expert sessions, the advice they gave Nikki and Sean. I don't know how you feel about them. But he said every fight comes back to closeness,

power or respect. Do you believe money plays any of those roles? relationships? For sure. I mean, money is all of those things, really, if you think about it. Like, money is the reason that people can do things together, can feel comfortable going places, having fun. I mean, money is such an integral part of a relationship. So you need to add money in their equation. And they completely don't ever talk about it. That's what pisses me off on these stupid shows. They don't talk about money. Right? Like I said, the number one reason that people get divorced money talk about it going home i think i think niggi where be ready i hate to say this but i think

nicky and shan's biggest problem is he short yeah and i know that was like a moment when like she said she brought it up and like all the guys like had sean's back but he i hate to say it but like he gives this kind of napoleon complex where he he overcompensates yeah he's because he clearly has a lot of confidence yeah you know and the more you get to know him the more it reads like his confidence is a projection of his insecurity. Absolutely. Absolutely. He's always trying to prove that he's confident rather than actually being confident.

Yep. And always have to explain himself and be heard. And it's just like he's, yeah. Yeah. And I hate to say it because I do think the short kings out there need, you know. They need love too. They need love too. And they deserve love.

But like he is. They're just insecure. That's the problem with short men. And I'm not saying all of them because one of my best friends is actually a short dude. He says, yes, I am 5.5. but guess what? My personality is this. And he's the most confident person on the planet, honestly. And he truly is confident.

But it's like people like him, like Sean, yeah, he's not confident. So he overcompensates. And the second that she says something, you're right. Like he has to prove. He has to one-upper all the time. And she also does that to him, to be honest, because she's not really attracted to him. It's clear she's not attracted to this. No, it seems like she is, yeah, it seems like she is like, okay, you gave me this guy.

Let me try to make it work Well no she looks like she's trying to not make it work She looks like she's trying to like Find her escape Find her escape Her out That makes her look like the winner And she made a she said a lie

And she's like she made a comment that he's He just came here to look good And win public appeal Which that makes some sense But she it seems like she's also Very fixated on making sure She's not the bad guy When she ultimately decides not to

Stay with him Yeah That relationship's not not going to work. No. Yeah. Do you, are there any relationship between, let's, let's just go through the couples and decide which ones. I have this down. Okay. Okay. So let's start with, with Sean and Nikki. We believe that they are an absolute, dumbster fire of a relationship. Yes, not going to work. Okay. No. How about Adam and Marissa? No. Oh, you don't think so. No. No. Because they're so superficial. They haven't had one serious conversation about anything. Their life

styles are very different. You see her home and what it looks like, he's still like living in some dump little house by the water. All you ever talk about is jet skis and like... No, his obsession with jet skis crazy. Yeah, that's all he ever talks about. That's crazy. That's all he ever talks about. And listen, as a young man, I thought owning a jet ski would be just maybe the coolest thing ever. You know, like we, I certainly loved being on the water. I always had an affinity to the lake life. Yeah. Super cool. When I was lucky enough to buy the lakehouse, I bought a very cheap jet ski old.

It's, you know, I'll take it for a spin every now and then. Not every day. But like the way he's just like, we get to, like, I, is it? It's not that fun. No. Not to build your life and personality around it. Oh my God. Just obsessed with jet skis.

I don't know. I want to know where that came from. Well, it's the way he's projecting his wealth and like, look how cool I. I'm really curious how much money he actually has. I know because he says I make a lot of money. I'm like, what's a lot of money, dude? Well, then it says his job as a data analyst, which is vague. So, like, who knows what that means?

But also, waterfront property is expensive. So I kind of had that thought to... Does he own that or do I rent that? That's a good question. If he owns it, then I'm like, okay, he's got to have some kind of financial, you know, stability, but it is a bit of a dump. It's a total dump. If you have money, why would you live there?

Fix it up. It's like, are you kidding? Well, I would take a dump on a lot. like, I mean with the dogs. So they're not going to last. I don't think they're going to last. Even if they say yes, they're still not going to last.

We get it. We get it. We got it. If I poop on the lawn, it's mine. No one else is going to take it. Which one of these couples has to do with poop? I'm trying to do a transition. Well, how about that this isn't, but Nick and Courtney's

trying to find something wrong with them. She hates us. She can't stand. The two of the maybe most insecure people I've ever met. Yeah. And for different reasons. I have a hard time figuring out Nick because obviously... He's been on every reality show.

We share names. I too have been on multiple reality TV shows. I am self-conscious of the labels and assumptions and tropes people make about the person who did that. But I also think a lot of it is fair. You know? You know, it's just like I know too many people who have made a career on reality TV who really show up as like reality TV stars in the most disingenuous way. Like, they know how to perform for the cameras.

And so when I'm watching Nick on the show, I can't tell if he's like being sincere or earnest or if he's just like doing a scene. Honestly, so I've met Nick a couple times. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I don't know him that well, but I genuinely think he is a nice person. Okay. And how he shows up on the TV show is how he's kind of been in person.

And I mean this sincerely where it's like he's a little quirky. You know what I mean? He has like a little quirk to him. He's incredibly smart, obviously, having gone to MIT. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that that kind of gives you insight into like who he is in his personality. You know, like somebody, sometimes people who are so smart kind of have that like corkiness. But he comes across as like super friendly.

I think some of his best friends besides his hometown friends are like people that he met on the circle. which I feel like it's hard to maintain those relationships from reality TV, but the Circle show, it's like very unique. So she's just the insecure one? I don't know. He's never struck me as insecure. He's always been super kind. Again, I'm only basing my assumption off on a lot of assumptions and just the show. And that's what I would say.

It was hard for me to kind of read him because there's too many things I don't know. And I'm making a ton of assumptions about someone where she just, she's very at least open about her insecurities. Yeah. And then she does seem, okay, so it sounds like she's maybe just projecting most of her insecurities onto him when she like called him insecure. Yeah, I felt kind of bad for him. Yeah, she treats him like shit, to be honest. She really does.

Yeah. She treats him like shit. And it's really uncalled for because it's like he really hasn't done anything to her. I think it's showing up as, well, her big thing is like her, that she has like these abandonment issues, like afraid of like getting into relationship. It sounds like she's been broken up with before. she's been left before. And Nick, to your point,

like he has like a pretty good resume, you know? He's a good looking guy. He has some celebrity, went to MIT. He has a lot going for him. And I think it's very common in relationships when one person feels the inadequacies of themselves, you know, talking about finances where she's this kind of, she's trying to label him.

Yeah. I can see that. You know. Yeah. So, no. No. That's a no. Yep.

How about Philippe? and Tori. I say no. Why? I think they have a fighting chance. I kind of do too. Really? I mean, I'm behind.

So I don't know fully, but I'm just like even seeing their chemistry, how they were both equally attracted to each other, that they like each other's personalities. I do think the whole commitment conversation is something to be wary of. That's where I'm getting caught up with them. Yeah.

That's what I'm saying. And just for the record, I'm saying that they're not, they may say yes on decision day, but they're not going to last. Okay. That's what I'm saying. Long term. Here is my green flag and why I think they could have a shot. And that was when after they had sex for the first time and she slept on the couch.

She literally bailed and went to the couch. Yeah. But how he handled that, I thought was a green flag. Because that was a situation where a lot of men would feel very inadequate, very defensive. And he didn't. Right. And he recognized the sensitivity of the situation and that regardless of what happened in the bedroom, he allowed her to feel however she felt without making her feel like a bad person

for having a very normal reaction, even though they are technically married. Because I think a lot of people in this show make the mistake of being like, well, we're married. And if we're married, we should act like a married couple. It's like, you're married, but you've known each other for four days. You know, and he seems to be willing to recognize the reality of their situation without putting the label on it and the pressure on her. So that's why I feel like there's a green flag there for him. I think she's going to get turned off by him because I think he's really a nerd that's covering it up. Like just the way he laughs. But can't we love a nerd?

Right. Well, I'm like my red flag with him is, A, not only just like the fear of commitment, but it was what were you talking about with the dog? or something where it was like how are you going to be committed? And it's just kind of... It's week one. And I'm like, she's stunning. She seems to take all of your boxes. Absolutely.

Him saying us starting off married is actually a pro because then I just have to focus on us and it's not about getting to that finish line. Right. But I'm like, that's just such a weird backwards way of thinking about it. But fine. What do you mean backwards? I just like in the idea that like, oh, if we're already married, if I already have that label, then that would deter me from cheating where it's just like it, it, it,

doesn't really make a difference. It's ass backwards no matter what. It's one thing if you're working towards getting married and having to like consciously be like, I'm being faithful. I'm committed to my partner versus being like, oh, I already have the label of married. So now it's not going to be so much for me to focus on.

Like in this experiment, yes. Right. In the real world, no. Absolutely. If the only reason you're not fucking around is because you're married, you have that label. Like that is a horrible, horrible reason.

I don't buy that. Yeah. Like that, oh, once you get. out in the real world and you actually do have people sliding in your DMs. And he works at a restaurant. He owns a restaurant, right? There's girls hitting on him all the time. I don't know why, but girls hitting on him all the time.

I spotted that too and I was just like. I'm like, really? Okay. He's like, yeah, I do. I wonder if he is. But sometimes, I mean, don't, you know, like the, it's the, I mean, I'm very anti-label these days, but it isn't it the label and the commitment that. But you didn't earn that.

Like, that's what I'm saying where I'm like, the thing what he's trying to say is like, as if like not having to earn getting to that stage. in a relationship and make it that far without cheating, he doesn't have to worry about that because now we just have this label. But in the actuality, this is an experiment. So the label doesn't really mean anything. You're in a controlled environment

where your variables aren't random women hitting on you. So I'm like, if anything, it's almost worse to have the label first and then be like, oh yeah, I've got this. I think we're agreeing. I guess it's just more like, but to your point, like sometimes you need the commitment to, you know, because like in a marriage,

I think a lot of people for talking about the fantasy that we have about relationships and marriage is the idea that once you get married you're somehow going to like cease to be attracted to people. You know,

like you will no longer get hit on. Yeah. And the thing that's going to stop you is that like not the love or the dedication or the commitment you made to each other and the sacrifices that come with it, it's just going to be like,

I'm just not attracted to other people. Like, you know, couples will want to pretend. It's just like, oh, I have no eyes for anyone else. It's like, we all do. Like we're human beings. We are, but it's like once you're, you've made that commitment, you make the choice to say, I don't care that I'm being hit on. I don't care that.

I don't care that's a DM being slid into my DM. I don't care if I'm attracted to someone. I don't care. I'm going to, I'm married. So like I can't. And I choose to want to focus on this relationship. A comparable situation to me that's always boggled my brain is like bachelor, bachelor, bachelor at parties, right? Where it's like, oh, it's my last hurrah is a single person.

How the fuck have you been single when you've been in a relationship for three years? Yeah. Just because you're doing a ceremony. It doesn't mean that you're a, right. single person that you don't have to worry about somebody else's feelings up into a certain point. And if you do do something terrible at your Bachelorette party, why are you marrying this person? Yes. So that's what I'm saying, like, the concept of like, oh, if I have this label, a label doesn't mean

anything. It's the commitment. It's what you've built together. That's why when people are when people are unfaithful and whatnot, why it hurts so bad is because it's like we've had two, three, five, however many years. And then you choose to do this. So I'm like, a label doesn't really fucking mean anything. You know what? This reminds me of. You know, a question ladies should ask the men in their lives. Do you think if your friend gets a happy ending at a massage, is that cheating?

Absolutely. Yeah. Of course. Anyone's anything. Of course. That's not my husband. Exactly. But you're asking you should ask your husband.

Your boyfriend, your partner. And ask if their friends think that? If your friend did that. Oh, would they think it's? Yeah. I think if you say, if you think it's cheating, they, I think they're going to be like, of course. Yeah, that's a good test. It's a good moral test.

I'm telling you ladies, I'm telling you ladies out there. I've had this conversation with some male peers of mine and I was alarmed by how many them were like, well, you know, I don't know. It's like. Just give me a hand job. It doesn't mean it. I don't know. It's like part of the service.

That's crazy. They were kind of like skirting over the what it should be the obvious answer is like, yes, of course. Yeah. And you should ask him about his friends because if in any way he tries to downplay it or justify it, he would definitely do it. And there's a lot of men out there who secretly with their boys don't think that's a big deal. Ask it super nonchalant. Like almost like as if you don't think it's cheating.

Yeah, 100%. You should be like, you know what? Honestly, like I don't know. Yeah, play into it. My brother did it. And I wasn't sure how I felt about it. What do you think? Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Pull the rug out. No, I'm telling you, I'm telling you a disportion amount of men think it's okay. Matter of fact, set up a candid camera, film it, and send it to us. Yeah, let us know what happens. All right, moving quickly through the rest of the couples. Okay, let's go. Cameron and Michelle.

I think they're going to last because she really wants to be in a relationship. It seems like they get along. The child conversation is very interesting. Yeah. And he seems to be handling it. Very well. Very well. And he handled the money thing very well, too, I think.

Yeah, I mean, he was like, I don't make that yet. Yeah, I mean, it didn't seem like he was defensive about it. And I thought he just handled that really well. And I think she's, she really wants a relationship. So I think she's. And they're both hot. Yeah. And he handled that adoption conversation.

Yeah. It's like, my sister's adopted and I think she's great. Right. So we're good. Yeah. And you can tell pretty quickly if, I mean, it's just a lot to, I mean, to take it in four days. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it really is.

Because it's one of those things where you feel like the asshole if you want to say, hey listen I don't know like I've always wanted to have children and how do you say that honestly with someone who's vulnerable enough to say I don't know if I'm going to be able to yeah there's like there's so many ways to fuck up that conversation and make the other person feel inadequate and he seemed to navigate that quite well that was a green flag he did great yeah speaking too hot people devon and Caitlin no I say no yeah they might just have some compatibility differences yeah he he He has to dim himself, and they were talking about this, he has to dim himself and who he is to make her feel comfortable. And that's, that's never going to work long term.

And that's an easy way to probably make a man, because all men want to feel masculine, whatever that means these days or whatever. And they want to feel valued and respected. And it's going to be hard for him. And so do women, by the way, though. Sure. You know, I always want to make that clear because there's always this thing that, well, men want to be respected and women want to be loved. No, we want to be respected first, because if we're not respected, there's no. love. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Bar. You know? Yeah. Bars. How about Mecca and Bella Choli? No. No. You don't think so.

You can't say, if you don't have the self-awareness to say, I think you're more attracted to me than I am to you. That was crazy. I was like, what? And I am a guy, as you guys all well know, who sometimes just says things before I'm like, should I have said that? Like, is that necessary? Was that needed? And like, even I know that. Yeah, that was bad. Not to be disrespectful. But I also. feel like Becca has interesting advice being given to him in the sense of like because I find him to be

quite immature and I'm like even the conversation with his dad at the wedding day where it's like if it's a cheek she's weak or like whatever

and I was like these aren't mantras we should be his dad's pretty immature as well you know what I mean so like that's where I was just kind of like

the high school principal yeah are his parents still are they still together are they divorced I think they were right I don't know but imagine

your kid goes that school yeah I know and you see him on TV like if it's a cheek it's weak it's against like, oh, geez. Yeah. You know.

But I will say there's somebody for everybody. Like, people are strange. And I think his, if the parents are still together, I, a part of me is like, okay, well, there's somebody for everybody. Like, if they're still together, like somebody. He's quirky. Yeah, he's quirky. My biggest thing with them is that I think he is secretly so insecure that I, I think,

I actually don't think that she is more attracted to him. I think he said that kind of to bring her down. Because I think we're, we're seeing in other ways throughout it. But he is like, he keeps talking about like, oh, you're going to think I'm so weird. and she's like, I don't. I think I'm weird too. Yeah. He seems deeply insecure and that's the biggest right for me.

I did appreciate his vulnerability about saying that he has basically performance anxiety in the bedroom. And I was like, well, good for you for admitting that. He needs to say it to her, though, not to the camera. Right. Because. Exactly. At least that's my opinion. Because I'm like, if you're withholding and she doesn't know why, but you're saying it to us, but she needs to hear.

She feels rejected right now. Yeah, exactly. Totally rejected. and he's acting like they're bros. You know, I'm like, I am not your bro, man. Like, you need to step up. That's everyone. Do we want to wrap with Orange County recaps at all?

The thing I'm most fascinated about with Orange County, and I love, what seems to be this theme with Vicky of her saying that she regrets her divorce. Yes. And it's like so, I don't, maybe beautiful is the wrong word because I just, But I just like, when was the last time you heard someone admit that? Yeah. And then when you know what I want to see this season, I want to see a one-on-one conversation between Jen and Vicky.

Because like, you know, Jen's story is like she left her husband. I don't know what the, you know, maybe he's talked. I don't know what the reason was. But a lot of her peers had opinions that, you know, even Tamara came on the show. I mean, like, I love, you know, Jen's ex-husband. And he's a great guy and blah, blah, blah. And she like blew up her life and for this other guy. And, you know, and you're seeing these scenes of,

her sons being like, I don't get to see my dad. And then you have Vicky, you know, years later from her divorce being like, I, I blew up my family and it makes me sad and he was a great guy. And it's just like, wow, I want to hear more about that. It's a very one of the most vulnerable things I've seen discussed on housewives. It's always interesting to me because I'm like hindsight, obviously, where I'm just like, she wishes that she were closer to her family and she feels like that's what blew up her family.

I just obviously have been watching since the beginning where I'm just kind of. kind of like, again, rose colored glasses, she wasn't happy in her marriage either. So I'm like, I just think it's a really interesting dynamic, right? Because it's like we give a lot of credit to long-term relationships and being able to stick them out. And obviously there's highs and there's lows, which is what gets people to the point of considering divorce. So I'm just like, I don't know. It is interesting because I'm like, I just don't know that it's not just hindsight looking back and being like, oh, if my family would have stayed together, I was the one that ruined this dynamic, but I was like, you were fighting with him all the time.

Vicky and her ex-Dott, where she just, like, didn't like him. And it was just very clear. But isn't that interesting now? Like, with the benefit of hindsight, she's, it sounds like she's like I was the problem. Yeah. You know, what she's starting the fights where she, you know, Vicki's a highly successful, you know, independent woman. She's, you know, has her own business, you know, in real estate.

And I wonder if, like, she was one. in that period, she was maybe feeling like he was not doing it. I'm curious what actually, looking back, I am fascinated, but what Vicki now thinks is why she fell out of love with Don or why she chose to live of the relationship. Was she bringing up fights and, who knows, but it's just fascinating for her to, like, when she talks about it, she just looks so sad, you know, and in such an honest way. Well, we've all been there, though, I think.

I've been in a relationship where I got. bored with the with the other person so anything that they did got on my nerves so I would start fights and oh my god you know and really and I and I look back I'm like you know what he really was a nice guy I was just yeah I was just stupid and I think Vicky understands this is that you think that that intensity and that those butterflies and that attraction is always going to be there and that shit fades it's work that shit fades yeah it's work right it's work. So you... Yeah. It's, it makes you wonder, it's just like, because in relationships, I think the ones that work is at the end of the day, you feel like your partner is doing their

part. Right? Whatever that is. You know, we've talked so much about finances and how that plays a part in people doing their part. But, you know, there is often financial disparity in relationships. How often do you meet someone? You're like, oh, I make the exact same amount of money. I wonder if in some relationships, people lose sight of the part their partner is playing and how they show up and start taking it for granted. Again, I don't know Vicky and Don's relationship. I wonder if he was, she just stopped appreciating what he was doing, how he showed up as a father, how he showed up as a partner. And she just decided that he is supposed to do X, Y, R Z. He's not doing that. And therefore, I'm not happy. I honestly think that that's a more accurate.

That is exactly it. Yeah. That's bull's eye right there. But fast, I mean, like, I just give Vicky so much credit because it's such a fat, you know, so often on these shows, they're just, you know, arguing about the dumbest shit. Yeah. You know? And that's some real life shit that I'm so fat. I want to hear more about. And I want to see a conversation with Vicky and Jen about that relationship.

Maybe we're well. Because maybe there's, you know, probably not the same, probably different situations. But there's always a theme with Jen in her relationship or of, she never really seems happy with her life or her relationship. But that guy slimy anyway. And there's that. He really is. I mean, he's just slimy. Yeah.

I mean, it's just obvious that he is. And so she's going from, I lost my high with my ex-husband. Now I have this high with this other guy. And that's going to fade. And she's just going to go to another one. And vice versa. He's going to lose interest. He already is.

I do feel like we're seeing a trope throughout the last couple of seasons as to how divorce is affecting people's children. I was like, you obviously got Jen's son last episode or two episodes ago where he was just like, where Ryan literally. tried to tell her that like I think this is what the problem is and she was like I'm doing everything I can. It's very like eye centric. Very. Yes. If it's possible that my son is missing his father, then it's something against me, which it's not. Right. Obviously Tamara's daughters didn't talk to her for years based off of the divorce with Simon. And then Bickey's like my daughter moved to Oklahoma. I don't know if you watched Orange County all the way through, but like Brianna and Ryan and all that about that. Yeah. So I'm just like, I don't know, how do you guys feel like where it's like, do you think even with Jen bringing, putting herself on reality TV where it's like it's admirable because she is, she does have a job now and she has some sort of finances coming in. But I also think the whole platforming of the divorce and speaking ill of the father of your children and then being old enough to see it and be talked about. And I think her son was even saying that he gets made fun of and all these things. We're like, do you think that there's a responsibility as a reality TV person putting.

when putting your family on screen and like what is that and where is the line? I mean, yeah, I don't know if they know the line. And does it exist? Because also Carmela, she said that she doesn't, she's not legally divorced and so she'll share as a house with her ex-husband and like doesn't have a custody agreement. So you have like her, the new housewife on OC as like the new version of a more positive potentially position in divorce. But then you also have the two daughters who one is like, I don't go to school.

Yeah. So like it's. Yeah. So you know what I mean? No one's going to make me. It's a unique position. I do feel fortunate. I feel like I realize that certain aspects of reality TV are really, really not good for you. And I would not go back on unless it was so financially like. Yes, honestly.

Or the opportunity felt like something that would be positive for my mental health. But I think... Well, that doesn't exist. Well, yeah, that's true, I guess. But I think more so like a fun environment. Like, I don't think I could do dating or something like that. Like, I think that that just brings so much. Or even a housewife's like, not that I'm going to be a housewife.

But you know what I mean? I'm like that is such a toxic environment. But I think that I'm curious. I don't know. But I'm curious if some of these women feel like they have no option but to show up on the show. Maybe that is their means to how they pay their bills. how they provide for themselves. Maybe they don't feel stable in their relationships

and they need this as income to provide for their kids. But you're at the same time exploiting your families. Like I would like to personally, I'm like, I would tell people like quit the show. Yeah. Like it cannot be good for your kids to see this exploitation. Essentially you say that because, you know, Andy Cohen just in an interview because, you know,

Bravo celebrating like 20 years of housewives. They asked him about like how they, I don't know what the question was. But he was basically like being a housewife, not a draft or whatever, you either, like, you either want to do it or you don't, and you either think being a housewife makes your life better or you don't. And if you don't want to do it, don't do it, which is very cutthroat and it's very like business is business.

And I, from Andy's standpoint, it's his, I'm sure he is tired of, of, you know, seeing this, like, list of all these women. He's played a huge role in making famous and rich and all these things. And he's probably very frustrated with when it comes to, like, what I often feels like, I'm sure from his standpoint, a lack of ownership or accountability or just appreciation for how their lives has changed. On the flip side, this is a very toxic space and it is very lucrative. And to be successful in this space, you have to make very difficult decisions. Decisions that, do I incorporate my family? There's so much pressure from the audience of being authentic and

criticisms when you try to put up a boundary of me like, I don't know if I'm comfortable going there. And then you'll get a bunch of fans and criticisms and maybe pressures from producers. They literally bonus you out for the drama that you bring to the show. So on the flip side, I can completely get where Randy's coming from. But on the other side, it's like, man, you were really putting these people in a very difficult position and forcing them in some cases to make an impossible choice of showing appreciation, but to do your job, you have to, in some cases, blow up your family and blow up your life. Or be willing to blow up somebody else. Exactly. Yes. And then sometimes you're darker. And so it's a very like, man, I get it and

make a deal with the devil. It's 100% a trade-off. And you're selling your soul. So be ready. Yeah. I mean, that's all it is. And, you know, they, it's interesting because I do a lot of housewife content and I'll talk about like Derreit's financial situation and I find it so interesting people get in the comments and be like it's not your business I'm like she literally gets paid for putting her business on the street I mean every every day I see like a new headline between Doreet and Pek that's what I'm saying you know putting each other on blasts and it's your business to discuss it right and that's and that's and I use it and see so I'm not a got it's not a gossip when I talk about it I use it as a teaching moment as to what not to do this is what you don't do

No, I mean, I'm with you on that. Like, one of my biggest frustrations with this space and the people we cover, it's just like, well, we could not talk about you. Like, isn't that the whole point? You clearly want to be talked about. And yes, you know, very much on this show, we try to be, find the middle ground, you know, and see both sides and try not to have her criticisms to be too harsh and always kind of empathize with the position they're in. But so many of these reality TV stars is like, if you're going to talk about me, it better be fucking nice.

Right. And it's like, well, I mean, I guess, but like, you were. It wasn't really nice when you hooked up with your best friend. Like you know, you guys do have a lot of empathy on this show. I try. No, you really. No, you guys really do, honestly. And it's, it's really refreshing.

And it makes me feel bad about myself because I just don't have a lot of that empathy. Because I just feel like if you're making money off of this, then that's it. This is your job. I think, I think from like when I discuss it, I think of it. through the lens of like, we're all human. And, you know, I've signed up for the, I signed up for a show and did it. And you don't know what you're walking into always.

But I think that if you're going to do a repeat show where you're a housewife, you sign up year after year, to an extent you do know what you're signing up for. And I think, so that's where I think you, the other side of it, though, is what we try to do is like using you as an example. It's like, I agree with you. Like, these housewives are putting out content for us to do whatever we want with it, I guess, right? I just wish what the fans would do

is recognize that it's still a TV show. And all these women are showing up and making these very difficult choices for our entertainment. Yep, to judge these other people so that we can feel better about our own lives. And like, I sometimes wish fans would recognize that a little bit more to just be like, okay,

and just whatever even PK and Dorita putting out there just to recognize that whether it's performative or it's actually just, they're really just being nasty, that, like, they are doing it for our benefit. And I think we have to recognize their, like, they are, it is their job. And maybe we shouldn't just judge a book by its cover. And maybe we shouldn't just deem these people as horrible people, because, like, some of it is, like, they are just doing scenes sometimes.

Like, I just, no doubt, especially in the Bravo universe, people are willing to do things. They wouldn't normally do in real life, you know? Like, I, you know, it's a little different on them of The Bachelor, But I'm sure there was a lot of things as the basher. I was like, I would never. Same. I don't want to do that.

Of course. Yeah. Fine. Fuck it. Like, I guess I'll dress up as Adam and Eve. And like I, you know, like, I guess. Like, I guess I'll go on this bouncy castle. Knowing full well, I'm going to be judged for it.

But I, you know, whatever. Those pictures still exist on Google. Yeah. It's like a fucking TV show. You've been on the other side. I think that that's, that's where like the empathy comes from is if you've been on the other side. I think you, you understand that a little bit better. Another.

Another question. So Tamara basically got offended that Heather won't post her on her TikTok. And it raised the question of if you're not posting your friend on your TikTok, does I mean you're not proud of them of having them as a friend? In real life, ridiculous. Absolutely. And Tamara's world, I think she kind of has a point. There's some legs too. Because in real life, it's just like, how can you possibly?

Of course. Oh, I've had people get bad at me for that. Sure. Yeah. But silly. And like, right? Like, I don't know, man. I just, I don't know.

you know, sorry every picture we take together is terrible. Sorry, you don't look good in every picture we take. There is that. But in reality TV world, specifically Bravo World, now more than ever, all these women who are housewives are so self-conscious and just Bravo celebrities in general about their brand. And the blog space in Bravo World has more and more immense influence in power. And so many of these reality TV stars are reading the blogs, are reading their press. are reading Reddit pages,

and they are very worried about the perception of who they are in their brand. And we do know that Heather is very brand conscience. He's very classy. And if I'm Tamara, I could see a world

where it's just like, hey, we're friends. We do what we hang out. You invite me over to Christmas parties, even off camera. We're friends. Like, we're friends.

And yet, you never, I can't even find myself on your social media. I could see it would make sense that Heather doesn't want to post Tamara given like all the criticism and messes that Tamara finds herself in and if I'm Tamara I could see how that would feel like

hey like I know on housewise we get into it in the drama but like I'm your actual fucking friend and can't you just let people know rather than pretend that we're enemies when we're actual friends I actually I can get on the Tamara side on that that's what Tamara was saying yeah I also had the question

question of, so people are coming for, not people. The cast members are looking at Carmela and basically saying she's trying to buy her friends, specifically in the fact that she had an event where she gave everybody a Dior clutch with a Dildo. And everybody was like, a Dior clutch is expensive. You're giving these designer bags, which means you're trying to buy her friendship. And the question to me is, what if, what if she's a gift giver in her love language? But is a Dior bag a gift or is that like, I'm showing my money here's a gift? Didn't Shannon give a bunch of people Hermes scarves or bags or something last season?

Well, Hermes scarves are 200 bucks. Okay. Okay. But your bags are, you know, thousands and thousands. Well, the real indicator there is if at any point post gift giving, does she mention the gift? Well, I got you that gift. Oh, yeah.

You know, does she weaponize that gift? Does she hold that gift over their head at any point? Then it's like, okay, you bought my friendship. But if she's like, yeah, I don't know, it's like, I got you a gift. and I hope you enjoy it and literally never bring it up. It's all about the flash anyway. I mean, these shows are literally all about the flash.

It's all about, look how much money I have. I have so much money I can afford to buy people, Dior bags. That's what it's about. Just paying $35,000 a month and rent. 39,000. First of all, like, if... Why are you renting? Yeah, you're a real estate agent.

That's what I don't... And a broker, and I've never understood that where I'm just like, everybody with the selling sunset of it all, And I know it's all a farce because it's like there's an actual commission split. You did not make $200,000 off of the sale solely. But I'm just like, so you live in a house with your ex-husband, you're handing out your bags, you're paying $39,000 a month in rent. Why not just get a place for you and your kids?

Yeah. And I know like in today's day and age, there's always like this new like, you know, 10, 15 years ago was like you have to buy a house. That's the only way to like accumulate wealth. And in 2026, you know, depending on your financial situation, it might not make sense to buy a house. This is how you determine. spending $35,000.

You can afford a house. This is how you determine, okay? The money that you're paying for rent. Because homes appreciate about 5% every single year. What you need to think about is, okay, that $3,9,000 is ridiculous. Stupid. That's just stupid. Right?

Just talking in general. Someone's like, okay, do I buy? Do I rent? What are you going to do with the money that you were going to pay a down payment for on a house? If you're going to invest in the stock market, you're going to, to make 12 to 15% on top of that money. If you put it in a property, it's only going to appreciate about 5% a year. Right. Right. So if you have other things that you're going to do with that money that's going to make you more money, you don't want to buy. So maybe she's making it rain.

Maybe. I don't know. I'm just saying just in general, but 39,000, that just seems like ridiculous. Yeah. That's a stupid amount of money to be flushing down toilet. Is she paying for it? Or is it a boyfriend? Or her ex-husband? Or her ex-husband? Yeah. I'm like, if she's not paying for it, then... But the whole circumstance doesn't make sense? Because didn't you just say that she said she lives with her ex-husband? Well, I... No, she doesn't live with them.

It's a little confusing. I think she lives with the current situation, but she has a house that she's shared with her ex-husband that he lives in and kids go between her now house and his house. The house that she's in right now is not the ex-husband's house. It's the $39,000 that she's sharing with her partner? Current partner. I believe, yes. That's what I understood.

But I don't know that she disclosed who pays for it. No, she didn't. If he's paying it, I'm living it. I'm living in it for sure. Yeah, I'll save my money and save my down payment money. But to your point, if that money is just going to rent. Right. And she can't afford to invest.

Correct. That's the problem. Somewhere else. That it's just. Yeah, it's just waste. Yeah, it's a complete waste. And this is why I love reading court filings, you guys, because these court filings, you see. I read, they're better than gossip blogs because they disclose the gap between how someone

projects themselves on TV and the reality. Because you think this person is rich as fuck and they don't have a pot to piss and they're broke as fuck. I want everyone to think I'm poor. Yeah. I love to sandbag, you know. Good luck. If anyone knows anything about podcasting, they know you're not broke. Hello.

I hope. Right? I feel broke. Patty, this has been so much fun. It's been great. For anyone interested in reading Patty's book, never date a broke dude. There are some incredible insights in this book. So certainly some how-toes.

I mean, it is shocking how many young people are financially illiterate. And there's some basic dues and duns in here. Yeah. I mean, this is literally a fun read. It is a fun read. It's a playbook and we'll tell you exactly how to invest, exactly what your mind needs to look like. All of that.

I just opened up a page and it says, buys a basic burkin for $20,000. That's 4% of her net worth. Huge difference. Yeah, we're talking about Kim Kardashian. Yeah, Kim Kardashian buys a burkin. It doesn't matter. Exactly.

Thanks for all the incredible insight and the fun gossip on reality TV. Where can people find, follow you, all that fun stuff? At Duchess of Decoram on Instagram. How'd you come over that name? Well, I used to teach a lot of decorum. I used to do a lot of decorum videos because, yeah, when COVID was happening, is when I started my social media. How do you feel about spitting in public?

Ugh. Or spitting in people's mouths in public, like Amanda. And West? Yeah. And worst. That's what I call them. Worst. Yeah.

So I used to teach a lot of decorum stuff. So that's what the fans started to call. What are some basic, like, in 2026, still valuable points of etiquette for people? I'll tell you some that people just don't know, okay? So when you're cutting steak, you don't go back and forth like that. You cut in one direction only. When you're eating soup, you're not supposed to put the whole spoon of your mouth. You're actually supposed to tip it and kind of...

That's why I don't eat soup. Yeah. You're not supposed to start eating until everyone starts eating at a table. If you're getting to go up to the restroom, you don't announce it. What if you're at one of those annoying restaurants? You know, oh my God, I hate this. We bring it out when it's ready.

Oh, yeah, that's really annoying. What do you mean? Well, they're like, wait. Yeah, we'll just bring it out. We just bring it out. So like the French fries come out. And then like 10 minutes later, your burger comes out. And then the salad comes out 20 minutes later.

You're like, oh, I thought, I guess. I don't know. Which I could have picked my order. Yeah. In those instances, I always tell people to go ahead and eat. But if you're at an event and, you know, they're serving food, you don't just start eating like a wild animal. You wait. Everyone sits down.

You put your napkin on your lap. That's where your napkin's supposed to go. You don't put lipstick. You don't tuck it into your shirt. Yeah, no. You don't put lipstick on your napkin. If you have lipstick on, you ask for a paper napkin. That's how you wipe it.

Noted. I took an etiquette course like a year ago. From the girl that's on the London. Ladies of London. What is her name? I want to say like Mickey. it's not Mickey. Oh, God, she's so cute. I took a, I took an etiquette course. Like, I just happened to be there. And I was like, I'll do this. Did you learn a lot?

I actually learned a lot. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I loki took one when I was little to, like, randomly as well. It was like a tea party I went to and they taught us. So I, some of it was Micah. Micah, yes. Micah, yeah. And so, and then I saw she popped up on the show. I was like, wait, this is so cool. But yeah, took an etiquette course. They taught me, like, how to do the napkin properly and then, like, wear it a dab. Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. Which everything to use. Yeah, from outside in. Outside in. What about men?

What about them? Do they need it at a kit? Actually, they probably need it. Who should take the class? Yes, men do. You guys, like, you'll take, like, the bun or the bread and just, like, put the butter and just go, you know, like, you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to cut a piece of bread off.

Put the butter on there, put in your mouth. Not bite into it. Do you know which fork is for what? I mean, I'm gross. How do you hold your fork? How do you hold your fork? Like, that's my childhood trauma. Well, because I grew up in a family.

of 10 kids. So when I eat, there's like a... 10 kids. It's... My brain goes into like, get it while you can. Get it while you can. Like, I used to wake up early to... Make sure you got a bowl.

Got a bowl of cereal. You know, because if you didn't wake up early, a mom bought sugar cereal. My man, he's one out of seven. And he always has, like, phone. He's always looking. How come you're eating this? You know, like he's always missing out on something.

That's so funny. Childhood trauma. Yeah. It's real. We all have. Patty, thanks for coming. Thank you for so much fun. And thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you. We'll see you back on Monday. Bye-bye.