The Viall Files - E117 Ask Nick - Cheating on Venmo with Ginger Zee

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Chief Meteorologist for ABC News Ginger Zee and her amazing husband Ben join Nick to answer all your quarantine sex and dating questions. But first, they discuss the surprising upside to being trapped at home. Then we talk to someone who wants to propose during the quarantine, a woman who found out her husband was cheating on Venmo, a flight attendant who doesn’t like talking about her job, and a someone who doesn’t know how to flirt during this time.  THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: THERAGUN: theragun.com/viall BETTERMENT: www.betterment.com FLAMINGO: https://www.shopflamingo.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files I am your host Nick and we have a very fun episode for you today I am joined by my dear friend, Ginger Zee of Good Morning America and her lovely husband, Ben, to help us answer some questions with our callers today. And I thought it'd be great to have these two because, well, Ginger's always great at sharing her perspective. And we have a nice, successful married couple here who's very open about their relationship. And it's nice to get some perspective from people who are actually in it and doing it and not from just a single guy like me. So thanks for joining, guys. Oh, we're so happy. And we apologize. But this is how we stay together. This is an important part of marriage by hooking yourselves in the ear. Armpit to armpit. Yeah. For those of you guys who are not watching on on youtube they are are sharing a a tethered uh headphone which it actually looks kind of cute and they've been doing this for the

better part of an hour and 15 minutes so uh it's it's it's pretty great how are you guys holding up in the quarantine time with the uh you know they have you have two kids you have each other what is that like we have a dog yeah we just adopted a dog which was probably a great move um because that gives some diversion right and um but also it's the only time in our lives we could dedicate to you know an adopted dog that needs some and a puppy at that because he's chewing everything you guys thriving or or has this been stressful Because you hear a lot of stories about like, oh, the married with kids is not a fun time during the quarantine. It's so funny because we talk to our neighbors or our friends and we keep saying, I think because especially me, I travel so much that when, and this spring I was meant to travel every third day. And when that all shut down, it was like one of those strange, you know,

surreal moments where it was like, wait, real life is going to be right in front of me. So I didn't really know how it would feel. I knew I'd be really grateful for it. I have still felt a majority of this time, like, and we were sick through much of it. I still have felt pretty awesome. Like I'm really, I feel like we are thriving. There's been moments. Yeah. I mean, it's nothing unusual. I think aside from you travel, we're an excruciatingly boring couple. So, and that's not being self-deprecating. It's, it's being honest. Well, we, we, you know, the things we're doing now are the same things we would do if Ginger was home. We would be just, you know, going in the backyard with the kids and going on little bike rides around the cul-de-sac

and hanging out with the dog and cleaning the house and cooking and all that other stuff. So it's really not, it's not like, oh man, I would just kill to get on a plane at Turks and Caicos right now. Like that's not what we do. We were boring. It's just more, the thing that is different is that we do have individual time when it's not right now, when it's not quarantine and we haven't had that. And I'd say there've been just like moments of like, but then I, maybe it's because I've been waiting for something not like this because I never wanted a pandemic, but I've been waiting for time to dedicate to my family and my home and all of those things for so long that anytime I feel that level of like, oh gosh, everybody's in the space and I have to figure out how

to set up my show. It like the gratitude part overtakes me and it blows right through and we're lucky too that we moved out of the city yeah if we still lived in the city and we had a tiny three bedroom or two bedroom whatever we were living in that was equivalent to the home now that we're just outside of new york city we might be telling a very different story so i feel really yeah i feel very lucky because we've got space i'm fortunate that way that I live by myself because I live in Venice. And I got a place that was like, based off the premise, I overpaid for location. You know, like you would in, say, New York City and thinking, well, I'm never really home.

So, like, I just want to have a cool location. I don't need a ton of space. Right now, it's been like, oh, I could really use more space. You know, again, thank God I'm by myself. But it is not that big. But it's interesting that you say that because, like, it is an important time to try to, like, you know, you always say, like, try to make the best of a situation. Like, what can you take advantage in these times as opposed to, like, being, you know, frustrated about the situations we're in. I kind of thought to myself yesterday, I got a question about like, you know, what it's like, you know, for the people who are single out there, for the people who are living alone. I actually wonder if they're actually thriving in a way,

because I think the initial response sometimes when you are single is to have this feeling of loneliness, right? We're isolated, we're stuck at home by ourselves. But I think even myself, in a lot of ways, my anxiety has been better recently. And I kind of wondered to myself, why is that? Because the truth is, are there times where I feel lonely right now? Sure. But there were times I felt lonely before. But I really noticed what's the difference that I'm not experiencing now that I was before. And that is FOMO. In the sense that when you're single and you are by yourself, there might be a Friday or Saturday night that you are not going out. And the reality is no one's really having that much fun out there. But especially now with social

media and we go on there and you see the appearance of fun, we feel this anxiety about missing out and FOMO. And now you you have this permission to like watch a movie all day and watch six movies and not judge yourself and not worrying about like, am I missing out on something? And I got to say, like, I think that's why I've like been doing better in that regard because like, there's no FOMO out there. There's no fear of like, what am I missing out? Because everyone knows what everyone's doing. And I still have the ability to like talk to my friends and FaceTime them and my family and my parents. And so like the loneliness, like honestly, like I've really thought about that where

it's just like a lot of the loneliness I felt before was more in my head. The perception of like, what am I missing out on? Are people like the people who are in relationships and doing things have each other. And while I may not be living with someone, I can still connect the way everyone else is connecting right now via phone call or text or Skype. But I'm never worried about lately about like, what am I missing out on? I think that's kind of fascinating to think about. And you know what, I think that's a great point, because you're kind of practiced at being I mean, you've had, you've been in relationships, it's not that you haven't, we we know that, but you've you've been practiced at having that time. Something that we wouldn't have had, I don't know that we've

been together this much in a row without break in our marriage because I was chasing tornadoes. So this is brand new for us that way. And I'm happily surprised with how great it's been. But I would say this would be this time and I've seen the domestic abuse stuff. And because I was in an abusive relationship before, I feel such empathy for the people who are in that situation who can't get out and there is nowhere to go. But I feel really lucky for so many reasons. We're still working. That also is a big difference. A lot of people were laid off or there's a lot of places that just lost their jobs. I think we'd be in a really different situation then

because we've both had fears of that going into this, but the fears only stop at, okay, well, at least we still have a paycheck. So I think we haven't even had the pressures with having this time together. There was times between his shows where he was getting worried

when he's been between, you know, in entertainment things end and then you have to find something new. And those are really stressful times, probably more so for you. Definitely much more. Because you were home and you were like, that was horrible. Well, you know, and like you said, it's there, no one's doing anything right now. So it's, we're all collectively in this holding pattern. So if, you know,

when you're, when you're unemployed and everybody else is working, you freak out because you feel like you, you're not a part of something. So that's the ultimate FOMO. I mean, that's the professional FOMO as opposed to like, Oh,

everyone's going on. Yeah. Yeah. But it is kind of interesting that way. I mean, it's scary because like, obviously like if you, you know,

I agree with you, Ginger, like I, every day, you know, knock on wood, I've been very thankful that like me professionally, I, I haven't been impacted and I know I'm lucky in there. I have, you know, my, I can't even say the same about my parents and like people very close to me have been impacted and that is scary. And, you know, so yeah, you certainly empathize with that out there, but you're right.

It's kind of this weird thing. Even my parents who have had this impacted, it's kind of like, well, you know, we'll just see what we can do. And it's, it's, it's kind of a fascinating and in a way like trying to make a silver lining about like, you know, it's nice how people are coming together and, and just trying to see like how we can make the best of a situation, whatever situation we find ourselves in. And, you know,

obviously like the domestic abuse stuff is scary. And that's the biggest thing, you know, because it's like, what do you do in those situations? And it's such a challenging time. And you pray for those people to- But it's also very telling, like, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I was just thinking we were on an Easter Zoom with his family and some of my family yesterday. And one of his cousins is in Wisconsin. She lives in New York, but she's in Wisconsin right now with her boyfriend. And she's just been there the whole time because they've been stuck. So like in their relationship, I think they've been together, what, a year or two?

Yeah. Yeah. So like it's got to be really interesting in relationships like that where it's not new, but you've never been presented with something like this. She's kind of not kidnapped, but she's, she's in a very different place. In, in someone else's home. I think they're with her, his parents or something with his family. And it's gotta, there's gotta be a lot of those situations we don't even know about. So I've been fascinated to look and kind of, you know,

try to garner some, that's not entertainment, that sounds so bad, but some, you know, how the world is working relationship wise. And I just keep feeling very lucky. And I keep going back to now, if you were to talk to us three months from now, if this still has to keep going, which we really, you know, are hoping that it doesn't, maybe it wouldn't feel as bright and shiny. And, and, you know, when we're done with Ozark, I'm pretty easy to be with. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think it's just trying to adjust and adapt and like mix it up a little bit and hopefully like maybe Ozark season four comes out sooner than expected. You know, he did say, no, Ben said, because he's creative and he is romantic this way, he said yesterday,

why don't we get the tires on our bikes blown up and we can go on a bike date? Yeah. Isn't that romantic? Doesn't that scream romance right there? No, I think that's great. Just something we do get. I mean, listen, I'm a creature of habit. So there's so many things I do over and over and you just get comfortable with doing it

a certain way. And as soon as like either with yourself or someone close to you encourages you just to do something slightly different, even like it's not that drastic to like fill up the tires on a bike, but like if you don't have a reason to do it, sometimes you just never do it.

And it's just a nice change of pace if you're able to try to mix it up and just, you know, I always get questions about spicing it up or mixing it up. Now, great time to just, you know, say screw it and try something different. The amount of creativity that comes out of humankind in this situation, of mankind in this situation is extraordinary too. You can see it with social media. I mean, people are doing wild things online because they have no resources.

And that's when real brilliance comes to fruition. My, my, my quarantine content has been thriving. It's just, people are on and they're watching and they're, and they want something to divert their attention a little bit. So,

you know, the dancing and the, the guys DJing, D nice is DJing and all this other stuff. I mean, that's, that stuff, that stuff is when you're like,

okay, there are people out there and, and they're doing extraordinary things with so little. And so we can do that with ourselves. And I guess that would be the marriage advice too. If I, and we can even take our own advice in doing that is keep thinking of the bike rides, keep thinking of the ways, because no matter how long this keeps going, you have to keep it fresh for yourselves and not just sexually or whatever way. It's more like in your lives, because, you know, we could, we basically go outside to the backyard every same time every

day and do the same, you know, with the kids. And that's the thing is they love routine too. And so we are also major creatures of habit, but after a while, we're going to have to shake it up a little. And I would think that like, I don't know, I was thinking in the shower this morning, think that like, I don't know, I was thinking in the shower this morning, how am I going to go back to the travel? Is this going to change how I feel going forward? And I think it might, I think it might have been the experiment or the experience that I needed to tell me what no looks like, because I am the constant yes person. And I'm the one that's always running and running so hard that I'm missing all this stuff. And now just like the cliche of people are like,

your kids are so young for only some time. And I'm like, wow, I got smacked in the face with it. And now we'll see what happens. Yeah. You're going to cry. You're going to cry when you leave next.

Guarantee it. Oh yeah. I had to commute every week for my last job and I was a blubbering mess on the plane. I'd go take a plane every Monday morning, come back every Thursday night, and I was a disaster. Yeah. It'll be interesting how the world reassesses priorities as a result of how we've adjusted. It definitely will have an impact, yeah. How my job is going forward.

I think about that, too. What means what? I was already kind of questioning that. And this puts it all into some weird perspective because I have more fear because I wonder, will my job be the same when I renegotiate a contract? Will this whole epic crush of an economy impact that so much so that I'll have different choices to make. So those are individually going on. The one thing I would say is like advice to for people is just

expressing that because that helps. Sometimes we forget to just say it, say it out loud. And I'm lucky that I have a partner who's the best communicator. I mean, he's made me a much better communicator. I was the worst. I would say the one thing, though, that has gotten us through this craziness is that we do, in fact, have an awesome diffuser in our bathroom.

Oh, stop. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I thought you were making fun of my poop right there. Oh, no, no, no, no. That's behind the camera your diffusers nick are amazing i'm not advertising for you right now this is not this is not a thing but they're he does love it i love i love diffusers and i never find good ones and this is the one that i the only one i like there's your natural break by the way that's awesome man thank thank

you for the plug ben i. I really appreciate it. I love it. No, they're amazing. On that note, what do you say we get to these calls? And definitely appreciate you guys helping out. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com. And without further ado, ask Nick. Theragun.

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started today. How's it going? How's it going? Hi, it's going good. I'm Carly. I'm 24. How are you doing today? Good. How can we help?

Well, my life is pretty good right now. Right. And I'm I'm basically trying to figure out if I should propose to my partner during quarantine, if that's a good move. So I've been with this person for the last two years, a little more. And we have a really happy, healthy relationship. We've talked about getting married. I've been the one who's been, I'm younger, and I'm a little more wary of marriage in general, and so I've been the one that's kind of,

has it been, you know, no, what the hell? We're not doing that. But I just feel like I'm shifting, and, you know, we're quarantining together, and it's been really sweet. It hasn't been hard, thankfully. I'd say that lightly. I know a lot of people are struggling. And yeah, I just think that I know that I want to and I think what's the tension for me is about is everything to do with other people's reactions in my life. Sure. Tell me a little bit about your relationship, about your partner. So they're 30. We live in a small town together, but we're both from cities.

We love to just hang out and be together we're kind of homebodies we love to cook we love to talk about our feelings well that's great now now i i i have to ask because you suggested that you want to propose and traditionally you know men propose is this uh are you dating a man? Are you dating a woman? Like, what's the reason you're thinking about proposing? I think the reason I'm thinking about proposing is because of our dynamic of, like, it would just be sweeter to come from me, to come from the person who has been hesitant, you know? I'm dating someone who's gender who's gender fluid but so uses all pronouns but um when I met this person like they were very much male presenting and using he and and I think we still do have a lot of some dynamics of like a of a straight couple um and so so yeah I would be like the more classic woman i guess you would say um but i

i just want to and what the hell it's 2020 right yeah i mean so i guess i'm curious is like what are your reservations i mean because like the quick answer is like well if you want to go for it you know thanks i mean i think i just feel um you know, I'm, I know a lot of people get married young. I'm from Boston. We, it's a little less that way. 24 is considered pretty young in my family. I also think, I wish that I was a little more integrated into my partner's family and friends. Like, this feels like I wouldn't want this to put pressure on those relationships. I want them to continue to just develop at their own time and without, like, any stress. and without like any stress. Um, I guess particularly my partner's mom,

she's a really cool person and she's a little hard to get to know. And I, I, I've been kind of going back and forth also on like, if I should ask for her blessing, like what is, what would, you know, like, what is this? Can I ask a quick question, Carly? So do you think that had the coronavirus and quarantine and stay-at-home orders not happened, would you have felt this way? Because I think, you know, you might be feeling different because you've been isolated from the world and you haven't had the pressures, you haven't had those. Would you have felt this way? Could you hold on and hold out until midsummer and say, oh, OK, we've all been back in the life and I've started to get these reservations out of the way?

Could you wait? Totally. I mean, yeah, I could wait. Right. Like I think that's I think I think I also though, like I've been feeling I think what quarantine has made me realize is like I actually have been ready and I exactly what you're saying like I don't have these pressures I don't have everybody's like gaze on me quite as clearly and I'm just able to see that this is so clearly what I want and so I'm for the first time having this feeling of like, but why wait? But yes, I could wait. Yeah. So I think that's the question to ask yourself is, you know, how much of that is because you don't have those around. And that's wonderful that you feel this way. And I agree with Nick, if you feel it, there's no reason why you shouldn't. I just think that we're in a very strange time right now. And I would say, you know, and Ben knows all of this because and most of the

world has access to it because I wrote a book, but one of my best friends in life, uh, that I met through a TV station I worked at, he became my best friend and then boyfriend, but he was gay. And then we fell in love with each other as people. And I think, and I'm trying to put myself, and I was 24. So that's why I'm putting myself in your position. I still think he he's still one of my best friends. Ben and him are best friends, my husband. I think that we would have potentially, without all of the pressures,

gotten even closer to solidifying our relationship into marriage, which is something that we had both talked about forever. I don't think that it would have been great for us because of other reasons. If you were quarantined, you're saying. I'm not saying if we were quarantined, because I don't know that it would have been great for us because of other reasons. If you were quarantined, you're saying. I'm not saying if we were quarantined, because I don't know that, because I have no idea. But I'm just saying it may have taken away. I'm thinking of some of those things, that he was gay, which was a huge one. And then we fell in love with each other. And it was

confusing, except for to us. It wasn't confusing to us because we loved each other. And so I'm trying to put my, I actually at the exact same age. So I'm trying to say, if we hadn't had that, would we have gotten closer? And would that have been beneficial going forward? I can't say yes or no, except that now I know that I found, and Brad would say this too, I found him the way that I needed him in my life going forward. So anyway, I would ask yourself those questions. And I would think that time is on your side. You know, you can keep saying and you can you know, it might help, too, is just start expressing that and say, like, this has been a really good time for me.

And I feel like I'm getting even closer to feeling like that. Maybe that gets some of it off and you guys can start talking about the reality of it happening. I would enjoy yourself. I think I think think this is a time that, I mean, divorce rates are skyrocketing right now because people can't stand to be with each other. You have the complete opposite where you have the luxury of actually enjoying your partner very much, which is extraordinary. And it's telling of your relationship, how strong it is. But I would, I would, there's no need to rush. There's no deadline here. I would, I would just enjoy this,

embrace it, Live in the moment as much as you possibly can, even though it's impossible to do that. Everyone always says it, and I think it's such a BS. But try to live in the moment and try to just enjoy this time together where it's so focused, so concentrated. And like Ginger said, learn about each other as much as this is the moment where you can truly learn about your partner to the fullest extent, because there's nothing else to get in the way of it to distract you so i would say just just really enjoy this time and i hate i hate 24 you said right 24 i hate saying 24 is is young i hate being condescending like that i don't want to be that

person but you do have time you're not there's no reason to rush and just embrace this yeah no i i totally agree with what uh ginger and ben are saying and kind of like what ben said like not to dismiss in any way your relationship and i think what ginger was alluding to is that there is no doubt that in stressful times or just weird times we have a way of responding to that right um and And, you know, for example, like I don't, I'm assuming you've seen The Bachelor or the show, but part of the way that process works is because it's such an intense environment, right? And that it doesn't make the feelings

that people feel disingenuous. What it does is it heightens them, right? And so we have these, you know, feelings in these kinds of times to, again, I don't in any way doubt that you're convincing yourself of your feelings. It's just you have a singular focus right now, and that's kind of maximizing your feelings. And to Ginger and Ben's point, I think that's a great thing. It might make sense to just enjoy that, how you feel right now. Because the truth is, if you guys truly are ready to get married and be engaged, then that's a lifetime by definition,

at least I'm assuming you hope it is, right? Which means that nothing's going to go anywhere, right? So you might as well enjoy this moment and then wait to maybe more normal times to really get some clarity. Because it is hard to see things truly as they are when you're living in a reality that's not typical or normal. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. That's very interesting to compare it to The Bachelor. I see what you mean. Well, I know the easy thing in these times is to let yourself go. But I got to say, I actually make it a point every day to do the things I do grooming wise.

Trim my beard, moisturize my face. I even fix my hair even though I'm not going anywhere. And even though I don't have a ton of it right now, I'm just like trying to maintain a level of sanity. And so while I don't wax my body, I do have a lot of female friends who would regularly go to, I don't know where you even go to get wax, but they would go to these places to get wax. And now harder to do. And the good news is Flamingo allows you to do the waxing yourself at the comfort and

safety of your home. Yeah, I use their head-to-toe wax kit. I love it. And it just makes me feel so clean, so fresh. And also, I feel a little awkward going places to get wax. It's like very intimate. So it's nice to just be able to do it from home. I can only imagine.

Just leave it at that. Anyways, try the Flamingo head-to-toe wax kit today at shopflamingo.com slash V-I-A-L-L. You get 20 face wax strips, 24 body wax strips, post-wax claws, and calming aloe vera serum for just $19. And it ships free. CY, Refinery29, calls it the only at-home wax strips they've not hated. Get yours today for just $19 plus free shipping at shopflamingo.com slash V-I-A-L-L. I mean, I just kind of think back and like, it's great that Ginger has such a very specific comparison. I don't have that, but like, I look back at my parts of my life where I was just going through stressful times and I started having, I started convincing myself of things that I was ready for

or kind of was ready to rush. And again, like I'm not suggesting in any way that you're, you're rushing it, but it's, it's's you want to be careful about making life commitments in times where things are not typical, you know, or normal. It might be a little bit more stressful and things like that. So like to Ben's point, like express those feelings, put it out there, you know, like don't make it a secret. Maybe share it with the family and stuff like that. You know, address the concerns that you do have, the things that you're not uncertain about your feelings towards your partner, but you are nervous about the response your family might have.

You know, maybe this is a time to kind of warm them up to the idea, you know? I did do that. I spoke with my parents. I told them I was thinking of this and they were happy for me. I think the concern is more, yeah yeah my partner's mom and all yeah but i will say i was when you when you know you know when it's there when it's something but that comes with experience and that comes with life experiences and you get to that point where you you do make mistakes and you realize this is it and you have that feeling in your stomach but this is it because the worst

thing i hate when we got married everyone's always like you're nervous are you nervous i'm like no why are people nervous before they get married this is awesome it's like another day it's just some you know you know you shouldn't be nervous you shouldn't be freaking out you shouldn't be thinking about cold feet or anything like that you should be 100 sure i agree and i do feel that like i i really do feel not confused about the actual question of this person. Right. Like I've I've loved a lot of people. I'm young, but I've had a lot of relationships and I've learned a lot and I've seen a lot not work. And this is radically different. Like this is just, you know. Um, yeah, but I also do think that in some ways, I'm, I'm putting a little pressure on myself in this moment, because I'm like, when are we going to have this much time again to just celebrate an engagement? Like, I'm not working 40 hours a week for the first time in a long time, like, which I know sounds like kind of weird and practical, but like, we're, we're busy people. And it would be nice to just get engaged and get to like goof off for two weeks together. Yeah. But that, that will be always there. I don't, uh, I, I appreciate that. I don't think that's a reason to rush an engagement,

you know, like, but it's not rushed. Like I, it's something that I, I mean, it's something that I wanted before quarantine. It's just not something I gave myself permission to think about doing. I mean, here's the other thing that you could do. And this is just now me being like hopelessly romantic. And because I did end an engagement. Not ours. A different one. Different engagement.

I mean, engagement, an engagement isn't marriage. It is serious. If you're, if you're talking it out and you're like, listen, we want to, we want to have this time. And I agree first and foremost with both Ben and Nick, you don't have to rush into it, but if you really feel strongly and you really want to do this, talk about what that means. And would the repercussions of ending an engagement be worse than breaking up someday? You know what I'm saying? So like, so that you could at least, cause an engagement can be for two years, you know, who knows that. And and I did I ended it three weeks before the marriage and so that was too late I would not

suggest that just just for like down payments alone um but I think that it's really helpful uh to if you talked it out and you both know it's like a prenuptial engagement I don't I'm just kidding don't talk out like that part but I'm saying like if she really feels strongly and she wants to get engaged and she's like at the end of this, she does like, I don't care what you guys say about time. You can do it and just know that it's not forever. I wouldn't talk it out. Because then that ruins the whole romance and the surprise of it all. If you're going to do this during quarantine and you want to do it, you want to do it right, you talk it out. It's like buying the ring with the person.

It's like it takes out all the romance. If you are sure, if this is something you feel, you're an adult, if this is something you feel and you have that and you're sure about it, then I say go for it. We're totally changing everything we're saying. I know. I say go for it. You're convincing us. No, it's the more we talk to you, you're a rational person. You said it, you were with them for two years. That two years that we were together for six months before I proposed to her. So it's, it's, you obviously know this person that you're with and you love them very much. I think, you know, if it's something that you truly feel, I say, do it. I say, do it and make create, do it in like a, in like a face mask or something.

I say do it and make create do it in like a in like a face mask or something. My I'm wondering if you need to. I do have one one question, Carly, just like you mentioned that your partner is gender fluid and it sounds like going through that right now? And kind of, are they still kind of learning about themselves and kind of becoming more comfortable themselves? Or do you feel like they've kind of settled into who they are? I think it's a constant evolution for a lot of us. So I think very much both like i think they're very comfortable who they in their body and who they are and i think who knows 10 years from now what how they might want to present and how they might feel and i feel really comfortable with any direction that that could go

even if that direction is without you though yeah that's the only thing i want to point out too is it's like that's amazing that you're comfortable with it. But that could be a like, as they, as they evolve, you know, and they identify and they get to know themselves better, that might change the things that they want in their life. That's just I mean, that's just kind of a reality. So that's just something to be mindful of. of. You know, and I don't know this person or your relationship, but if they are, I mean, I would say this to anyone, regardless if it has to do with like how they are, you know, identifying with their gender. I would say this to someone who has that all figured out, but it's still like maybe learning about themselves or maybe their like relationship with their childhood or whatever. Like as a person kind of becomes more comfortable with their skin and their, in their skin, their desires and wants can change. And that's something to be mindful of.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know how that's different from like getting engaged to anyone ever. Right. It's not, you're right. You know, right. My point is, it's kind of like, you know, uh, I, you're, you're absolutely right. And what I'm saying is, uh, whether you get engaged to, to anyone, you want to make sure that they seem to be pretty comfortable with who they are as a

person. You're right. We're always changing. We're always evolving. Right. I, I, I, and as a, and as a married couple, you're, you're growing together. I'm sure Ben and Ginger, to a certain degree, can like think about how they're different as a couple now than when they got married. But you just want to make sure that one person is not maybe still discovering themselves more than the other, right? There should be like a strong baseline there is all I'm saying. And again, maybe that person is there. So just is that kind of evolution for them, you know, something that they will let you grow with them, you know, is kind of the big question. I think I mean, honestly, I think if anyone's still evolving, it's me, you know.

Yeah, I think. Which I think is why it's like very much ball in my court to to be the one to say okay i do want to commit in this really powerful way um because yes like they're older they're they're pretty seasoned um they're an earth sign very grounded they're not going anywhere well then i kind of with ben i say you know go for it if it feels right but just uh yeah like maybe you know we know, we'll see. We'll see how like, you know, maybe right after quarantine, like set yourself up for it. But like I think if you if that's where your heart is, then, you know, as far as overall, go for it. You're getting engaged. That's exciting. I just wanted a little validation. I really like your podcast, Nick. I really appreciate your, your thoughts.

Well, I appreciate you listening and it's always fun to hear people's relationships and different people's perspectives. And we really appreciate you sharing. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. All right. Well, early congratulations and give us an update. Yeah, please do. Thank you so much. I will. Bye now. Great to meet you all. You too.

Thank you. I mean, I feel kind of bad because we totally flip-flopped like a million percent. No, I think that's the way conversations go, though. Yeah, but I felt convinced by the end. Right, totally. No, I think that she seemed completely of sound mind. And, you know, I hate saying it again, but you talk to a 24-year-old, you're like, what does a 24-year-old have as far as experience is concerned? But she seems like she's very mature. Yeah.

And I will say that me ending my engagement, if that were the way it was going to go, made me a much stronger relationship person eventually. Yeah. relationship person eventually yeah so and a lot less and i don't think she's flip about it but i definitely was more flip when i first got engaged yeah she seems pretty short of herself she does and i wasn't and i i think that's where the big difference is i couldn't have made a call like this and been like i can't wait to marry this person i would have never said that not once in that relationship i was i mean okay i i agree with with Bren. That's kind of an evolution in a conversation, but I think sometimes it's one of those kind of what's the takeaways of the call is like,

be careful when you're making big decisions under stressful situations, but it doesn't mean you're wrong about those decisions and you just kind of think it through. And the truth is we don't know, we don't have the answer, right? Like things could work out with Carly and her partner and it could change. I mean, that's one of those things is why you get engaged and maybe have a, you know, an engagement. So, you know. And that's what I was saying. Engagements can end. It sounded so bad, but I don't mean to. I mean, you don't have people see marriage as no big deal. And then they get married. I know that.

But they do. They seem like I remember talking to somebody like, oh, you know, I'll just we should just get married to talking about another another guy she was with. And I was like, no, don't just get married to get this is a serious deal. And marriage is a serious deal. I mean, once the wedding is over and all the real issues come to fruition, then that's when the work begins. And it's work.

It's constant work. I mean, it's exercise, man. And people think that marriage is just like oh you know it's it's sweet it sounds great but it's really difficult it's not something to mess around with it's like having kids same thing how's it going i'm good how are you good what's your name Rebecca and I'm 24. Hi Rebecca 24 how can we help? Okay so I've been with my person for six years and we just got married three months ago in January. We got legally married because he's a Marine and so we wanted to he proposed in December but we got married quickly after that just so we could get the benefits move in together legally and all of that. And we were in the process of planning our wedding for next year.

While he was gone last year, he was in Virginia doing courses over there for the Marine Corps for a good couple of months. And things were pretty rocky. It was hard to communicate with each other. He just was so busy all the time. It was a hard time. I didn't feel like I was getting enough from him. There was always one girl I was kind of skeptical about. He was going clubbing a lot at that time with his friends, which I didn't mind. Like that was his time to have fun. But I would see him like following girls on Instagram from Virginia Beach that are not Marines. So obviously he's meeting girls out. And then there was a charge on his Venmo, an Uber charge that he sent a girl money for. So I questioned that. And he says like that it was for his friend, that he slept over the night with this girl and didn't have his wallet.

So he sent her money, whatever. I never had anything else to go off of so I just said okay but it's always been in the back of my mind and recently for whatever reason I just decided to kind of dig into it and so I messaged the girl and I asked her if she hooked up with the friend she said no I don't even know who that is so I said, then was it my husband? And she said, yeah, it was. Multiple times that they were hooking up and it was up to even recently, a couple months ago that he was still reaching out to her, planning to see each other again, like offering to fly her out. Did she know you existed? No, apparently not. Okay. So this is kind of where I'm at now.

And I guess my first thought was like, okay, I don't want to be with this person. I want to get a divorce. Okay. So I talked to him about it. At first he denied it. And he said, no, like, I don't know what you're talking about. And I said, OK, well, with the little respect that you have for me, let me know when you're ready to admit it and we'll talk. is really hard to admit this uh but yeah this is what happened I went out with my friends I got really drunk I went home with her and then a couple weeks later it happened again and he said

I wanted to talk to you about it before we got married he he asked me like do you kind of want to sit down and have an honest talk with each other to kind of admit some stuff and I did say no because I just kind of thought like I didn didn't, I didn't have anything to say. And I was like, whatever you have to say, I don't want to know. So I told him no. He said, this is kind of what he wanted to talk to me about. But he was scared because he knew that I would leave him that that's not something I'm willing to accept, really. So we talked, and he admitted it. And he just said, he doesn't, he doesn't want a divorce but he'll sign the papers if I want to um so then my thought process was okay I'm gonna be divorced at 24 like now what do I do from here I guess that's that's my that's your okay so if you were to

make a list on like reasons why you'd want to get divorced or reasons why you'd want to stay married, what would be like on that quick list? Because it sounds like you're, go ahead. The reasons to get divorced is just, I guess, trust is the biggest thing now. And especially because this wasn't something that like happened and he got rid of it. Like he still followed the girl on Instagram. That's how I knew. Like if he wanted, I told him if he wanted to get rid of this, you could have hid the charge. You could have not followed her.

I would have never found out. And he was like, yeah, but I feel like he maybe wanted me to in a way because he's still, he still left it there. Like he wasn't very smart about it was trust always an issue with you guys since you're you know you thought you were looking at who he's following on instagram you're looking at venmo stuff unless you have joint accounts was this always an issue with you guys i think it was just something because he'll like send me money for lunch sometimes and i think it was just something like that i saw on the venmo um we have a really good relationship and our communication surprisingly is actually really well but seeing who he's like following new girls on instagram and seeing that he's following new girls

and i would never know like you even know instagram better than that i would never know if you followed somebody on instagram which is really really bad. That's the thing. Like on Venmo, like it's the deep moment is to like, have it be public who you're sending and receiving money to, you know? And so he probably didn't think about it. Um, and so you went on and you, you know, you, you obviously have sent each other money. So like you saw that he sent this person money. Like that's, um, yeah. Oh, yeah oh it had like oh because you have to put a message in the middle of it that's right but see with venmo like when we um pay a babysitter whatever we i always put private even for that because i don't i don't like that i don't like that being out there anyway like why is it even an option i don't know why it's a great question

this is a whole like why does venmo do that i don't know i don't understand why. It's a great question. This is a whole like, why does Venmo do that? I don't know. I don't understand why they're trying to make it a social media app. But yeah, it makes sense that he just got sloppy and forgot and didn't realize it. I mean, listen, I think the important thing here is I just want to emphasize with what you said with regards to your fear and your fear of being, if you were to decide to get divorced, where do I go from here as a 24 year old? What does this say about me? It doesn't say anything about you. All the fears that you have about what people might think or what you'll think of yourself, you will definitely get over. And it feels infinitely worse in your head right now than it ever will be in reality. That's just a fact. I have no doubt in saying that.

People are getting divorced all the time, especially young people who decide to get married realize pretty quickly that maybe they shouldn't. And I'm not telling you you should get divorced, but I think having trust and security and feeling like your partner respects you is far more important than what your neighbor might think of you. And so they won't. Or who the next person that you might meet, the same thing. They won't care.

I mean, had I been divorced instead of broken engagement, you wouldn't have cared. And that was, no, you wouldn't have, you would not have cared. I'm just saying it wouldn't most people that's not, that's not the deal breaker. Or if that is a big concern of yours, nobody's even going to bat an eye like, okay, so that happens. They really want, they really won't. I agree. Like all those things that we, we judge ourselves harder, way more than other people judge us. And the only time I personally think that that becomes an issue for other people is when we project our insecurities so much that it becomes something other people care about. You know, it's kind of one of those things, like if you go on a date with someone and you know, it's like people like to know that you think they're great, but like there's a

balance between you don't want to go on a date and be like, why are you on a date with me? Like, I don't deserve you. You know, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, I like, why are you here? Like at one point, like it'd be, it's flattering for like a split second. And the other person starts wondering, like, why am I on a date with you like i i don't get it so like that's the only time that really becomes an issue is like if you wear this on your sleeve and you start like wearing it like you start acting like you're damaged goods like because you really won't be and like no it's a tale as old as time is like especially you know people in your situation, like we got married, we loved each other as a real relationship, but the marriage itself was a bit rushed because of

like the situation we found ourselves in. You know, he was serving in the military. We wanted to get benefits that we couldn't get as a couple that was just engaged. And so we did this, right? Because like the only difference between like, what is really the difference? Like let's say you guys didn't, for whatever reason, need to like get benefits or like any financial security through getting married. You would have like waited. You'd still be engaged right now. And you would have found this out as an engaged couple.

And in your head, it would seem differently, different. So like, this is really, those fears are really all in your head. And so- But at the head and so but at the same i think at the same time like when you said it and when you were telling us your story my heart hurt i don't know so like my heart and i don't it's not me being hurt so i think that that emotion you know um doesn't end quickly necessarily i think you can work through everything i think therapy is

incredible. And if this person is worth it, I think that would probably be necessary. But my initial feeling was like this, like, oh, I felt horrible for you. And whether you were married or just you had still been dating for six years, doesn't matter. And so once that part is, you're able to clear from that, I think then you really have to think about, is this person something I want to work hard for? And do they want to work hard for me? When you said, he said, oh, I'll sign the papers if you want to. Was that just like an offer? That seemed very quick. I don't know. like an offer that seemed very yeah I don't know I think he knew like we've talked about it before like I told him I'm not afraid to be divorced like it would suck but I'm not gonna put myself in a in a relationship I don't want to be in so he kind of knew already that like okay this is what

she's gonna want so he just said he told me this is not something that I want. I know I want to make it work, but it's like, I'm not going to hold you back. But I agree. I mean, there's something there in his response. And I know we're hearing it third party from you, but that just, to me, it sounds like he's just putting it out there. He doesn't want to get divorced, but like, if you want to, it's almost like it's, and I'm not, I don't know if this is the situation. Cause I wasn't there in the room when you guys were having this conversation, right? But sometimes people say things just to be able to say like, well, I didn't want to get divorced, you know? But like, is he really fighting? Is he really doing everything he can to like show his contrition,

to show his like sincerity and how wrong, how he understands that like this was an actual mistake and he's not just sorry because he got caught. Like there's a lot of red flags here that suggest that like, this is not just a mistake. He just is sorry he got caught. And the only difference between that is like his like sloppiness on Venmo, right? That's a concern, right? Like, listen, people are human. People make mistakes. We all have moments of weakness, you know, like there are are situations that can be devastating to us that we can overcome, but everything is situational. And this just has a lot of red flags around how it went down, why he's sorry or why he's saying he's sorry. And like, well, I don't want to get divorced, but if you want me to sign the paper is not the type of response I would expect from someone who truly will do anything to make this

work. And, you know, again, this is based on what I'm hearing from you. But yeah, unless you're like leaving out information, it sounds like there's just a lot of red flags here. And I would expect, like Ginger said, for him to want to do everything like he's be the one like i want to get therapy maybe i i want to go get help i want to understand why i you know like all like he should just be like bringing you a list of things not as like well just let me know if you want to stay together or not you know like it sounds like you substitute you substitute a lot of your needs for this person as well and that's unfortunate i do you have a lot of friends that are married there's a lot of a lot of your friends married no i don't have like a

that's good being together for six years it was kind of just us that's good because that would that would be a lot more pressure i think would be added pressure if your friends were all married and then oh what am i going to do i'm the only single girl in my group of friends. But you're lucky you don't have that. I think since you did substitute so much of yourself for this guy in these circumstances, I think now is a time for you to be selfish. And I think it's time for you to really take care of yourself and have tunnel vision. Don't worry about anybody else.

No one else matters. Their opinions don't matter. Nothing matters except for your strength, your independence and your happiness. And that's something that you deserve that you should focus on that right now. I totally agree. I think that's great. And then any fears you have about like, oh, well, I've committed so much energy to this relationship with this person. He was my best friend. I don't really have a circle of friends. You are definitely young enough to like make a ton of friends. I have a lot of friends from high school and I have so many more friends that I have met in my late 20s and early 30s. So

like it's never too late to make great friends. And sometimes it's the situations and heartache that we experience that makes us relatable to people. You're going to connect with someone who's been in this situation. You're definitely not alone, right? So like put that energy out there to like create new relationships and not just like with another guy, you know, like it might be a great time, like Ben said, to be selfish and like focus on developing friendships. And then maybe if you do leave this relationship, be mindful in your next romantic relationship, not to like drop everything else. We've all done that, right? I've done that like early in life where it's just like you have this group of friends and then you fall off the map. And like a year later when it doesn't go well, you're like, guys, hey,

can we be friends again? Sorry. You know, like I've done that. Like I've had friends who've done that to me. We've all done this, right? But it's just, it's something to learn in the future. done this, right? But it's just, it's something to learn in the future. So, all right. Well, best of luck. Hopefully this was helpful. Yeah, you're going to be okay. I just don't be, you know, I think that the biggest takeaway is this. Don't scare yourself into trying into following your heart and following your gut. Like if you want to leave this relationship, you know, really trust your gut. Like, so far, I think what's really good is that your gut hasn't steered you wrong. Like, even when your gut told you something was going wrong.

Like, and don't let your fears of the unknown stop you from following your gut. Because it did once when he asked you, like, do you want to know? And you're like, I'm too afraid to find out, you know. But, you know, that's a good lesson to trust your gut and just not be afraid of the unknown yes definitely for sure okay yeah this was really encouraging so thank you so much you're gonna be okay i promise you'll be great you'll be great all right take care all right guys have a great day you too do you just want to hug just want to hug her i know i know my hurts. But do you know, the first thing I was thinking too, or the last thing I was thinking was, I was about to say to her, once you're out of this, it's never even going to impact you.

It's not going to be a big deal in your life. But if she stays in it, it will be a big deal for a very long time. And then I was like, wait, that's not good. I don't know what advice I would be giving there. It's so hard to give advice in these circumstances because everybody's different. We're a zero tolerance policy couple. I mean, I don't care if there's a kiss. It's over. It's done. The divorce is there. It's present. We've even talked about acting. If I had to be in acting and kissing. Oh, I wouldn't be able to. I would have to leave the room.

But that's the type. We've even gotten the depth of talking about it like that. So I think also having that conversation early, which we didn't get a chance to ask. That is one thing that with Ben made things different because I was a little bit of a I was I was not great. She was a little in other relationships. She was loose fit jeans. Yeah. And then I met Mr. Black and White and that was him. And he, he set it up very early. The sounds bad, the requirements of the relationship,

but like the list of rules, but I, but I respected that because it was clear from the front and I respected him. And I, for the first time respected myself so that I wouldn't go and hurt somebody. And I had hurt a couple of people and I had been, you know, in this terrible wheel of it. And so I'm not blaming this guy as if he's a horrible human being, but he just might be a young guy that's doing the same thing I was doing. And true. And, and kind of to our last caller, like maybe he's getting to know himself and himself. Um, I think people really people really uh underappreciate the importance of upfront expectations uh we always go into relationships assuming well don't do this and

don't do that and have trust but sure but everyone is different like you have non-traditional relationships and you know like a lot of people especially young people operate under this like well i didn't tell you because i didn't want you to be mad. Right. And, you know, fine. It's just like an excuse. It's kind of BS. But if you are in, you know, early in a relationship saying, hey, listen, this is what I'm about. This is what I expect from myself.

This is I want for my partner. If you don't want a part of that, then that's fine. But it's very clear from the beginning. And it just it creates a lot less confusion. And kind of like you said, Ginger, like when you hear someone say that with conviction about their expectations for themselves and relationship, that's attractive. It is. And it was also like rules for me to follow. I was more mature by then. And I had gotten a lot of that out of my... Think about at 24, if I came to you and I said, yeah, exactly. We'll come off so intense and so overbearing. stuff. But I was also not sure I could stick to the rules. And so I needed to be really clear with

him and be like, nope, I'm not ready for you and this quite yet. You know, I got to make sure that I don't want to go date some horrible human being for a while and then come back. And then once I really settled in and I realized, allow this person to love you, allow the black and white to work because it can and and it should and i want that too and i would then i was realistic about what i wanted i wanted to be treated the same way that he wanted to be treated and that's all it was and then it was super easy after that and i don't think you're the you're one of very few that i haven't overlapped with we'll call it that overlap oh I call it the old overlap.

I call it being a monkey. Going from one vine to another. That's the one. Keep on. Yeah. Being ready is a very valuable thing. You have to be ready. The reason young people get married

and they get divorced is because they're not ready. You have to be ready to do this and make this commitment. And fall off the vines and do all the things, you know, like, and have all those experiences like a young monkey. Pets have fly off of a vine and fall. Okay. Too many analogies. I shouldn't say young.

You're right. The only reason I was able to finally leave my first relationship of seven years of breaking up a hundred times was because I met someone else, right? I didn't have the maturity to just be like, this isn't right or healthy. And I need to leave this situation like I needed to meet someone else. And like that, that happens all the time. And that does come from like, just, you know, having that courage to be alone and saying no to something, you know, isn't right for you. But that's easier said than done. Being alone is terrifying for a lot of i i love being alone the other thing is he never had a

girlfriend and that's the weirdest thing to me he's the opposite of what you and i are talking about it sounds like i'm like a like a eunuch i'm his first girlfriend no but it's i think it's it's it's it's a it goes against the grain of like social norms, right? Like, I don't know why that is the way it is, but like when I get questions like I'm 22 and I've never had a boyfriend or girlfriend, am I weird? I'm like, no, you're a genius. Like you're, you know, like, you know, you, and like every, it's not wrong to have a boyfriend or girlfriend, but, you know, especially now with people settling down later in life, right? People just having different expectations than we had 15, 20 years ago, and certainly from our parents.

And it's kind of like, well, unless you are really ready to get married, then why are you in a relationship? Are you just there to have a boyfriend and girlfriend? I don't know. So like, sometimes you have to ask yourself, is it just nice to have or is this going somewhere? And sometimes it's just the former. And Ben was so strong with his conviction of knowing himself. He would wake up in a relationship, even when they lived together, which he did, and woke up and was like, this isn't right. And then he would just break up with them that day. I had to find them

and break up with them. I had this feeling in my stomach stomach i couldn't go another day without breaking i would wait three years i'm somewhere in between i'm not as cutthroat as i probably i am now but it was before it's yeah the road i think it's more than that how's it going hi i'm jacqueline i'm 33 hi jacqueline 33 how can we help so I am a flight attendant. And it's funny because I don't know if you can relate to this in any way because you've never talked about it on the podcast. But I absolutely hate talking about my job on online dating. It always becomes this 20 questions game, the same stupid questions over and over and over again and if i don't list my profession that's like the first thing that they ask me so how do i like get away with not talking about my job it's all anyone ever wants to talk about what do you hate about it

um i think there's too many stereotypes associated with being a flight attendant, which were actually confirmed on your interview with Peter. He mentioned that one of the reasons that he lives at home is because he's gone all the time. And that's actually not true for me. So when people just automatically assume, oh, you're never home, or how do you make dating work, or what's your typical route? All these stupid questions. And it's like they all have to get through the same questions before we could actually start talking.

Gotcha. Well, hey, listen, I guess my response to that would be you're probably making it worse than it actually is. making it worse than it actually is. Listen, certainly I have lived a unique situation, and my experiences are on TV or something I don't love talking about, especially on dates. But I also recognize that it's something that if I am interested in someone, I have to at some point be able to talk about it. And quite honestly, their ability to have a conversation with me about it is important. And my ability to see if if I can connect with them, because it is a big part of my life. And I need to know that they can have a discussion with it, a discussion about it. Same goes for you or anyone or whatever job they have. Part of the

reason why like, I think you're making a little bit too big of a deal about it is because like, what do you do for a living is a very normal, like first date kind of conversation starter. And the reality is a lot of people are, they get anxious, they get nervous, they don't know what to talk about. Like, what do you do for a living is right up there with like, how's the weather? And so, yes, you happen to have a profession that's, uh, everyone's, uh, thinks they know a lot about, and they might even have a lot of assumptions about what they are. And you've probably developed, um, an annoyance over it.

And you've developed this kind of like irritation with having to explain the misconceptions that are at least specific to your life. Because again, like every flight attendants life isn't the same just because you're a pilot or a flight attendant, like your situation might be different. You know, like you referenced, you know, Pete, my interview with Peter, like, you know, Peter's never home because it sounds like he's leveraged his life in a profession as a pilot to travel where you haven't. Like, it's like, I'll travel as a result of work, but when I'm not working, I enjoy being at home, you know, whatever. So my guess is you're probably making a little bit worse than it is. I think it's something

you're always going to be open to. Quite honestly, if I was on a date, you know, and I went on a date with a flight attendant, say we're on a date, and I was like, oh, so what do you do? And you got like, guarded against that question. I would be like, why? What? Like, what? Why is she like, it's the fact that they like, won't stop, I can try to change the subject or say like, oh, three truths and a lie. Let's let's switch this over to something else. And then they always go back to it. And I'm like, there's so much more to me other than my job. You know, like it's, it's obviously a big part of my identity, but it's not all of me. I'm curious, like, what are these questions that you're getting? Stupid questions like, you know, mile high club? Have you ever dated a pilot? What's your

typical route? And like, there is no typical route it changes every single week or what do you do on your layovers it's like the same questions from every person it's not like people switch it up or just say like oh tell me a great story or something crazy that happened where it's like an actual like storytelling conversation it's all the same stupid questions well I don't I don't I do and I don't know if this would help, but we all have different professions here. And I would say that I wasn't ever thinking that it was about my job, which is a meteorologist, which people automatically think weather girl, which is not because I studied science. So it's different than what people think. So there's a lot of assumptions that people know and ask the same things. But I always found, I'd say the annoyance

came wasn't in what they were saying about just my job, but it was just every time you had to go on a first date, there are those repeat questions. Like I find in my head, it was like the family stuff, the sibling stuff. So everybody's got like a tender spot of what kind of, oh, I have to go through this again. But unfortunately, I think that's just part of the game. I think you have to go through it and you have to do it. And now it's funny because we've been married six years and I'm like, do you want to know anything else about me? Well, that's a novel point. First of all, are you immune to turbulence? I need to know. No, but I think the good news is that these guys are asking questions. It's a huge complaint about most women that I know that are single are, I went on a date, the guy didn't ask one question about me.

All he did was talk about himself over and over again. So at least you're generating interest and these people are interested in your life. And if you go past second or third date, they'll get over all the questions. The questions will be done. Then you're past that point. What's too bad is that maybe it won't work after six and you've got to start over again. But that's just – I think that really is every first date. I find it at work when I'm meeting new people, when I'm doing interviews and I'm interviewing somebody.

I tend to still feel that first date feel where you're kind of saying those same things and repeating. I don't know. It's small talk. Yeah, it's small talk. It's just the beginning. And otherwise – and you said it really well. You said, well, that's not my identity. It's only a part of my identity.

That's a very advanced thing to say. Most people can't even get to that point knowing that about themselves. So you're already ready for like this deeper heart connection. And maybe you'll find that in somebody that's also ready. But I think most people, as Nick was saying, are nervous. They're kind of at the shallower end depending on where they are in their dating life. You have an interesting job. If you're doing data entry, you'd be like, oh, okay, great.

What are you doing? Oh, okay. Have you seen Office Space? Exactly. And that's part of it, too, is like you're going to be on a date and you're going to say, oh, I'm a flight attendant. And immediately, these guys' brains are letting up like, oh, great. Easy 20 questions right off the bat because a lot of times it's like uh what do you do and they say some some like totally you know

data entry like oh oh so is that like fun supply chain management you know uh one of my majors in college uh of course but see the problem is like it's more the online stuff once i get to the in person like i can avoid it and kind of steer the conversation elsewhere and it's more of the online stuff once i get to the in-person like i can avoid it and kind of steer the conversation elsewhere and it's not as big of a deal but it's like the messaging back and forth like we can't get past that and then i don't even know if i want to meet them because that's all we've talked about you know what i mean how long are you talking with these guys on online dating like right i would just meet them then well not now but you know yeah set up a i mean that's a thing like now's a great time to like you just want to like do a zoom date and if it goes bad just like hang up you know it's like there's um

but yeah like i don't how long are you really like maybe you're talking and communicating over text too long before you're like making the move. We don't even get to text. It's just on the app. Like they, we cannot get whatever. I mean, text on the app, you stop writing and then you just stop because you're like,

okay, that was 19. I'm done. I would see it as a game. I would see it as fun. I would, I would make up answers. Have you been the mile high club? No,

but I've been to the two mile high club and just make up the most random answers you possibly can and just make it a game. Sometimes I'll like answer like, OK, let me give you a quick lowdown. Can we talk about something else now? Like, hey, I saw a picture of this or I saw this in your, you know, whatever. And it's like it just I can't steer it away. Why don't you like I mean, if it's just like on the dating app you can have some fun here like you know when someone like what do you do you just be like i'm a i'm a i'm a

crime fighter and they're like oh like like a cop no no no like i'm more like vigilante like make shit up that people clearly know that you're kidding and then they're like no no what do you do be like yeah i would rather like have that like a conversation in person about it like that's intriguing i mean you're gonna end they're gonna end up finding out you're like a flight attendant which is like oh okay well like they're like oh what what does she do like why is it so like that could be exciting but like actually a good strategy is to make up something so extraordinary so that flight attendant sounds so boring compared to it like i'm a lion tamer i don't know like i i'm just kidding i'm a flight attendant let's order dinner yeah like i work as santa claus's assistant i don't like it's um you know just like

like you know when you're when online dating i think knowing you can take a joke or like say a joke or other and that's i think that's very important to like be sarcastic and in an obvious way that if they that clearly that you're joking and if they take it too literally that's a red flag but there is a part of that you're probably you've lost a little bit too much patience with it i mean listen i i don't love every time i go on a date to have to do the whole song and dance about me having 10 siblings do you really you're lying no they'll show me a picture what are their names like he lists their names like you're lying you're lying why am i show me a picture. What are their names? Like he lists their names like you're lying. You're lying. Why am I? Why would I be lying about this?

Like, I don't like like but I have to do it. And it's it's literally the same reaction every single time, you know. But you know what? It is. Parts of The Bachelor. Yeah. What if people ask certain things about The Bachelor that just make you so irritated? How do you steer the conversation? To a certain degree, I have to be okay with it. If I'm interested in actually dating someone, that is a part of my life. You are a flight attendant, right? And so if you do end up liking a guy and you actually start a relationship with someone, they need to learn about you, right?

You're going to have to talk about what you do. And I have to recognize that, like, it all depends on, you know, for me, it's so unique and there's things I have to consider. But at the end of the day, if I like someone, I have to be open to talking about it. Because the truth is, I want someone to be able to relate to me. I want someone to share my perspective on the show. So if they come from a part of life that has, they have a hard time relating to my experiences, I have to be open to talk about it and how they approach that and the questions they ask and how they respond to my answers is a, for me, a big indication of our compatibility. So like to be closed off is it's, you know, it's, it's kind of weird to be honest.

And like, I get where you're coming from, but like, you know, again, it's, it's just, it's a normal conversation starter. It's low hanging fruit. It's first date stuff. They're just looking for things to say. I think as a society, we've become worse at talking. We've become worse at communicating. We're not good at asking questions. And so part of it is it's like, you know, they don't know what else to ask. But like a lot of it is nerves. And, you know, I think you being closed off makes it even more challenging. Like, well, why won't you answer this question? You know, like, you know.

But it just there comes a point where I'm like, OK, like, can we now get to know each other a little bit? You know, can you ask? I get to know each other a little bit? I don't mind answering some. Can you divert? She does, and then they come back to it. Oh, they always come back to it? Oh, wow. I think in general, I think in general, messaging on a dating app is not a place to get to know someone.

They also can't take your cues. Your face would show you that don't ask another question about like you know you may have that in there but why like so like my guess my question to you is like try to get to the face to face i mean now we're living in a time like you can still do facetime dates and zoom dates you know zoom dates may be better because you don't have to give your number if you don't want them to have their number but like get to the get to it quicker like stop met like messaging with someone you've never met in person they have no idea about inflection on text messaging you know like their tone a lot of

assumptions are made via text messages with someone you have never met so like i don't get why people spend a lot of time messaging uh with people they've never met before they meet up, whether it's for coffee or a drink, obviously, or like right now for like a FaceTime or a Zoom date, like get to it quicker so that you can have like, you know, it's hard to ask, you know, deep questions over texts because like you don't know how that person is going to take it, you know? So yeah, you're maybe waiting too long to get there. And someone, I think that that's a, that's a problem with dating apps in general is like both, I've heard this from a lot of people, both parties are like too, like they're, they're

too pokey on like getting to making the move of like, do you want to like get together? But again, now is, now is like arguably a great time to meet new people because like when you're on a dating app i get it right so like oh do i want to go out and meet this person at a restaurant and like sit down for like an awkward drink and kind of i don't know you know or like if do i want it like if i'm in la it's kind of like well do i want to drive across town now it's like as easy as like popping on a zoom date and like talking for 15 20 minutes and popping off like what a great time to like to rapid fire just kind of get to know someone on my days off you know like if i am gone for

a couple of days and i come home like i don't want to waste my time with someone that i'm not totally sure i want to spend time with so you're right it is it is a good opportunity right now want to spend time with. So you're right. It is, it is a good opportunity right now. Give each other a little grace. This is, you know, and I just don't want you missing out on a great guy because he asked too many questions about your job. That's, that would be, that would be terrible. You know, that'd be a tragedy. So I just, a little grace on both ends, I think would be valuable. I, I agree with Ben. I mean, it's, I mean, listen, the best conversationalist is going to ask you about your job, you know? You know, and there's always an awkwardness and like, you might not be realizing it, but I'm certain that as a result of this being a thing in your

head, like you come, you probably come across even on text is a little more guarded. And and then when when someone feels like you're like, not giving them anything, they actually just kind of bury themselves and ask more of the same, like, it becomes just like, Oh, well, like, what else should you know, and then there's like this awkwardness. And also, like, can I ask one last question that is seriously important when it comes to being a flight attendant? God, I knew it. Which airline? Oh, yeah. Because, and I know that's the one.

She's an airline snob. I am, but that's the only, and I've told Nick knows this, Ben knows this, but it's important, you know? I will say. And they need not the same as Peter. I've flown a lot more Delta recently. Well, that's too bad. Because of Ginger.

Yes. It's pretty special special it's a pretty special airline it is but but anyway i i mean those are the they may have like that might be part of them you know like that would have been my play on it if i was going on a date with you i'd be like oh immediately i need to know and i need to talk crap about others she's the weirdest airline you're talking to like an airline nerd. Like she will, she was so close to diamond that she was actually considering like flying to Mississippi just to obtain diamond status. People do that.

It's crazy. Or like pay the money. Just get, so she's an airline snob. I flew Southwest once and Ginger reached out to me out of nowhere, just shaming me. And I'm just like, it made sense.

Like, I don't know. Like also they, they, they do songs. It has its place is all i'm saying anyway i think that's look at it that way it could be humorous it could be fun there might be something when you're in person because it would come up much different if i just asked what airline than me being able to inflect so So there's an example. Although you would say what airline and then she would just hang up on you immediately.

Click, I'm over this. But yeah, I think the big takeaway here is like, you're gonna have to have a little bit of patience, especially early on. Get to the conversation or leave the messaging via dating app as quick as possible and either get to the date or, you know, get to a Zoom or whatever. And yeah, have a little grace and patience with someone

who's just trying to figure out, you know, like what questions to ask because, you know, dating is hard and people get nervous and it gets redundant. It just does. And I get it. But, you know, we all have those frustrations, but, uh, you have to power through, you have to, you know, you have to be easy to get to know that's important in dating. I hear you. Makes sense. All right. Well, thanks for calling again. Thank you. All right. People are so sweet. They're also, they are so nice. They're also, yeah, they deserve happiness. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

It's just like, literally identical reactions from every single person I've ever gone on a date who finds out I have 10 siblings. It's like there's this universal reaction that you must have, you know. And it is what it is. All from your mom? From the same, you know. From the same, yeah, exactly. And you know what? Like, does it get redundant and irritating sure but you know what you know what i also know it's also like a great conversation starter it like loosens people up like it like it's it makes it fun and interesting and exciting and you know like and i've learned to embrace that because

it helps like kind of loosen up the conversation. And like sometimes you need to ask the boring, redundant questions to find the interesting kind of path of a question. like our first not not at all date it's just after we met but it was a half hour of you know talking and within that conversation we both got through the job stuff fast and then we were down to like i had a weird time in my life where i was very lonely and watched all of john cusack's movies and um ben great like great yeah but it got to that point our conversation within the park that so that's exactly right is that even within that, we were able to cover so much ground in person. You want to get to that place where you're like, how did we start talking about this? You're like, oh, yeah, that like lame topic, you know, but it like, it's got to start somewhere, you know. And guys are inquisitive.

They're asking questions. That's good. Which is so rare, I find. So that's, she's one step ahead of a lot of people already so yeah she comes with territory it's not a curse it's a blessing it is it is and it's a cool job she has a cool job it's it's it's just the way it's like you said when meet people they make dating so complicated now we were talking about this on my show that you can now find out on a dating site if the other person believes that climate change exists. It's so weird. And it's like, oh, my God, just go out on a date with somebody.

What is all these specifics? Oh, this is blondesonly.com or ilovemotorcycles.com. Just go on a date. You're supposed to have differences. You're supposed to have. You're absolutely right.com. Just go on a date. You're supposed to have differences. You're supposed to have. You're absolutely right. Yeah. We've developed too many non-negotiables for ourselves and our dating lives.

And we certainly have some, but part of the beauty of like, and I'm assuming you guys would know this, is like there's got to be beliefs that you guys had that have changed as a result of like learning the different perspective of your partner. Or they maintain, they say different. Or they maintain, and it's like the compromise at different times. Sure.

And that's something that you have to be willing or ready. And that's, yeah. Like she believes in, in, in human sacrifice. This is going to be fake. Whatever.

She lives in human sacrifice every Sunday night. The hardest thing that I'm still not good at is Ben is so full of S in most of these cases that he goes and tells people stories. Or like if people don't recognize me right away or whatever, he will mess with them. And I am so uncomfortable still to this day. It's like my least favorite thing. And he's like, you know, I hate that. She'll have to leave the room if I'm messed up. I can't lie.

I'm incapable of lying. Or he'll say like he was a wide receiver for the lions. Like he'll just make up this whole story. And I'm like school. And I went, I got a full ride to Duke for basketball and I played a little professional, but I wanted to be in radio because it pays so much better. So that's what it was.

And she'll just leave the room. I'm getting better, but it's, you're not getting better. You're terrible. No, not good. Yeah. I find that surprising that you're not good at that, Ginger.

I know. I feel like it's great to have... Ben obviously has a great sense of humor. And it would be worse if he was awkward about it. So serious. Yeah, so serious. True, true. Not at all.

But it's that people believe him so much that that's the thing. If it's an obvious and somebody's lying and all right away, people are like, oh, that's funny. It's that it goes on for 10 minutes. I'll just escalate it to the point of I'll go into space.

He still gets his mom. His mom thought Emeril Lagasse was going to do our wedding food for like three days because he was so convincing. And like that type of thing, I can't. I'll joke, but I can only do it if I know I'm telling the person that I'm joking. I can't lie. I am incapable of lying. I can only do it if I know for a fact that I will be telling this person I'm just kidding.

Sure. But after you've convinced them. Right. Of course. After you've been a fool of them. like right before they're like i gotta tell everyone no no no i'm just kidding i'm just kidding i'm just making a joke how's it going it's good how are you great what's your name i'm caitlin i'm 34 in Denver, about to turn 35 in a couple weeks. So really living it up until that happens. So I wrote you because I downloaded a dating app in February. I hate dating apps. I'm not much of a dater.

But I ended up meeting a guy off of it in early March and really, really liked him. We went on two dates. There is no intimacy on the date, so I didn't kiss him. We didn't hook up. And then I left for a ski trip in Aspen. Then a huge outbreak of COVID happened in Aspen, and I had to self-quarantine. And then in Denver, about a week after that,

they did a stay-at-home order. So we're stay-at-home, not shelter-in-place. And I haven't been able to see him since I really wanted to, but we've been texting a little bit back and forth, maybe one to four times a week. I usually let him initiate the text because I don't want to come off like too eager. So some of my questions for you is how do I maintain his interest while this is all going on

and there's no real end date with when people can go back into the community again? How do I make sure I'm not being too passive or aggressive um and then also the conversation I mean it's been four weeks of talking to him um over text but the conversation is very like light like it's a lot of jokes and memes and like funny things and I'm curious how to take it and make it you know a little more serious and try to get to know him better without coming on too strong? Yeah, these are great questions. I think if I, you know, if I were doing like a questions with Nick on my Instagram version of this, I would, you know, my immediate question is you're thinking too much about being too aggressive. You're over, I mean, I'm just such a big believer and people need to stop worrying about that. I mean, people know when they're being too aggressive.

And if you're so self, usually it's the people who are very self-conscious about coming across too aggressive or the ones who are way too passive. You know, you have that kind of self-awareness about you. And as a result, I mean, the reality is like the right guy is not going to see that as aggressive. I mean, it's normal in a dating situation to talk about serious things. Like it's great that he seems playful and that you both like share a similar sense of humor. And like, yes, memes are fun to like respond to and text. And, you know, I always hear from like women about like guys being bad texters. And I would put myself in that situation. It's like, how much can you really communicate?

Like texting is really kind of for that kind of quick responses and having a sense of humor. But yeah, you're just you're probably overthinking that a little bit. And kind of one of those things where like, if you try to drive the conversation down to more like get to know you serious path and he responds in a kind of a dismissive way, then that would be a very good thing to find out now, you know, whether like either A, how interested is he getting to know you or B, does he have the emotional maturity to ever have these conversations at all? You know, some, some guys don't, you know, maybe he's just, you can certainly learn pretty quickly if a guy, you know,

a lot of people like, Oh, does he just trying to hook up with me? Well, if he's uninterested in having like deeper conversations and he's just like, I'd rather send a, an, a meme, then that might be a sign that he's like not all that interested in doing that. Okay. Why don't you guys talk on the phone? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, yeah. Well, no, we haven't talked on the phone yet. I'm not a big phone person. I would do it if someone suggested it, but it's not something like I would initiate. But, you know, I know that that is an option.

We're both quarantined alone. So like I've been alone for four weeks at this point, he's about at three. So like, I haven't had any human interaction outside of like my neighbors. What about like FaceTime or like Zoom? Yeah, I could, I could do that. I just don't know how to maybe ask someone because I guess my biggest issue is that two dates isn't enough to base something off of. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you're not...

I don't think you even have to ask. I think if you just... I mean, this might sound really old school of me, but if you just called or just FaceTimed, he might pick up. And then I think that would also be very telling. You know, that would just be like, what's the worst thing that happens with that? He picks up and you have the best conversation ever?

I don't know. You could. I hate this situation because I feel for you. I know what you're going through because there is a game. Unfortunately, it sucks, but there is a game that is played where if you don't want to be – like you said, you don't want to be too passive. You don't want to be too aggressive. There's like a very slight dance that you have to perform in order not to drive the person away but still seem scintillating to them. And it sucks because you're 34.

We're at an age where it's like just get to the point. Do you want to be with me or not are we going in the direction it doesn't sound like he's a hookup kind of guy because he would have made the move on the first date and he didn't and that's and i'm not a hookup kind of guy and i would make a first move on a first date so that's that's that's good to know like he usually initiates yeah yeah that is fantastic that is that is that is the first inclination that this might act. This is actually very good in your favor because guys wouldn't. And I know, again, I know tons of women that are single that are chasing down guys and they said, he didn't text me back. Oh my God,

he waited a day. He waited two days and they're driving themselves absolutely mad. So at least he's initiating, which is great. But I think this right here, what we're doing is so back in the day when you used to call somebody you liked and and used to get a zit on your chin because the phone was resting there for so long. That's how you get to know somebody. You can't get to know somebody over text. You can't understand what they're saying, what their context is. Call them. Call them on the phone and hear their voice and talk for an hour or two or five seconds and be like, this was a total, this was a total waste.

Okay, great. Let's move on now. But yeah, you're quarantined. So you got to talk i totally agree and like during go ahead i was gonna ask if you guys have any advice on like questions i could ask him to start a like dig a little deeper or how i could maybe initiate like the phone call other than i mean i guess what do you want to know about them you know i mean i getting getting more into like you know stories about our past and like maybe how i can relate to certain things just like quirky little things other than like how many sisters do you have like

we we had that initial conversation but it's like getting a little deeper and i tried to like i want to call i want to talk you want to talk on the phone oh see i think you just call i think but it's like getting a little deeper. And I tried to like text him. I want to call. I want to talk. Do you want to talk on the phone? Oh, see, I think you just call. I think you just call and then, and then you, the, the conversation will develop.

We actually were just talking about this, but I think that if it's natural and if it fits and if he's ready for that conversation or he'll call you back when he is ready, you know, then you, then you just go for it. And then if it becomes one of those great three hour conversations, that's outstanding. And if it doesn't, then that's telling, you know then you then you just go for it and then if it becomes one of those great three-hour conversations that's outstanding and if it doesn't then that's telling you know i totally agree and i think you know facetime i think is probably a little bit better if you can see their face and like i think i think and it does how you frame it like it's so weird that sometimes like if you were to call them up and then be like all right well here i have a list of questions i want to ask you and all of a sudden it becomes like what what like why you know but like just

just get on the phone and start talking and maybe like you're sitting on a couch and you're both watching a movie and you're like oh what are you watching you know you kind of watch a movie together and it like you like have commentary you just keep it real light. And then that should like evolve into like questions, you know, like it should go down a path where you like ask a question and they, you know, do they give you like a one or two word response or do they talk a little bit, you know? And it just, yeah. But I think for you, you seem so self-conscious about like asking the right questions in a way that he will respond in a in a positive way i think you're just in your head a little bit about it and so

it's going to seem more tense um and i'm a big believer like yeah i agree that there is a game that people play but you guys did go on two dates already in person you've been texting for a period of time this is like i mean you're well past like this is not like you met on a dating app and text a few times and the next question out of your you know that you want to ask on the date is like you know his five-year plan you know like there's been some communication like at some point you gotta you do have to like have these conversations to show that there is something worth continue to talk about i feel like it's groundhog day but on the like the first day so it's just not getting past that you know barrier but i'm like i'd like it to be because eventually if i do see him in six to eight weeks like i'd like it to be like more established not like defined but just you know be able to see them and

cool i mean did you did you watch love at first sight and i'm not i'm not trying to relate this but that you you are able without being in person if it is a call or a wall or whatever it is you are able to develop really outstanding connection without having that in person. So that was a great, I mean, both entertaining and wonderful way for us to prepare for something like that, because I think that that tells you a lot. Are you able to go on walks in Denver? Yeah, so we can go on walks. He actually lives about five minutes away from me. And I have a dog. So I take my my dog out frequently I'm right in between two big parks why don't you guys set up like a kind of cute quarantine date or a six-foot date like

it'd be kind of fun yeah like you you can still you know practice safe social distancing and be socially responsible and like still be in proximity Like, it kind of has a cute element to it. I've seen, you know, I have friends who have friends and people have shared some stories on social media of ways people are kind of circumventing the times that we're in to still like show their sincerity and, you know, of, you know, advanced relationships that they're excited about. And I think you guys can do that. But right now you're, you're sitting in limbo and maybe he's doing the same thing, kind of waiting for one person to make the move. And I think it sounds like you guys have had enough of conversations where if he

responds in a way that makes you feel like you're being too, too much, then that just shows that maybe he's just not, he's not ready. He's not ready. And it won't be, he won't, and by not ready, I mean like he, this isn't it for him, you know?

Um, he either lacks the majority. Yeah. I would, I would set up a face. I would say we're going out Friday night on a FaceTime date. You got to get dressed up and we're going to have, you're going to have dinner.

He's going to have dinner. You're both going to have wine and you have a FaceTime date where you actually have a date, like you're sitting across the table with somebody. But you do it in a creative way. And this is what – and this type of – I don't want to call it aggression. It's not called aggression. But this type of creativity was exactly what he did on our real dates. And it was a lot at first.

But I have to say that once it was there and in front of me and maybe if you're presenting it, he'll feel open to presenting it or being ready for that because it's not the same right now. But I think that you have to throw it out there. Yeah. Do it. It's a weird time. I think embrace that. Yeah.

The difference between what seems aggressive or assertive just comes down to compatibility to interest and like you have to like take risks once in a while yeah uh to find you know and at the at the risk of being rejected which is not a reflection of you you know like if you get rejected this means it wasn't the right situation but you have to put yourself out there you know i know it's cliche to because the right person will find it charming and interesting and and be like, and, and,

and he or she will like tell their friends, like, you know, one girl can be like, Oh, some guy did this, but like, Oh God, it was kind of weird and aggressive.

And then the same girl with a different guy would tell this story to her friends and all our friends be like, Oh my God, I wish a guy would do that. You know, like it just all comes down to like compatibility and interest. But like, you know, totally.

As long as you don't get down on yourself because everything you're doing is right. As long as you don't get down on yourself, if you do reach out and he says – I heard ghost. What do they say? Ghost. The kids say ghost. Kids say ghost, yeah. Yeah.

If he bounces or leaves or whatever it is, as long as you don't say to yourself, God, I'm such an idiot. Why did I reach out? I'm so stupid. Don't do that. You're not doing anything wrong. You're doing everything right. I mean, this is the optimal time to ghost somebody if you were to do it. It really is.

Come on. Yeah, right. But it sounds like you have a lot of just hesitation and fears about doing it wrong. And to Ben's point, at this point, there's, it's just about, it's just you need to find out how compatible you guys are and you're not doing anything wrong. And if it doesn't work out, it's not a time to, you know, kick yourself and, you know, like reassess or react like, no, it just, it just wasn't there, you know? And that's, and that is okay.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. that's great. Great advice. Yeah, you, you're definitely, I don't think you're ever going to have to worry about being too assertive. I just, you seem so worried about it. Like, that's, those people aren't the people who are being weird and creepy and assertive. It's the people who have like just no self-awareness and never have asked that question to themselves that are. Okay. Great. Well, thank you so much. All right.

Well, take care. You're going to be great. Nice haircut too. Thank you very much. All right. Have a good afternoon. You too. Bye-bye.

Well, Ginger and Ben, I really appreciate you taking the time. This has been a ton of fun. I hope you guys enjoyed listening, but always great to have a different perspective and obviously coming from a fun and successful married couple. It's been a lot of fun and I appreciate you guys joining. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Yeah, we should do this more often.

You guys are welcome anytime. Where can people find you on social or in life? I'm at ginger underscore Z-E-E at most things. I'm benarrentv on Instagram. I don't know how to tweet. He's on PIX11 News in New York if you live there. Oh, yeah. I'm on at 9 a.m. on PIX11. And I'm know how to tweet. He's on a pixel of a news in New York. If you live there. Oh yeah. I'm on a 9am on pixel. And I'm on good morning America. And you can also check out, um,

what are coming out? Yes. April 21st, a third and a trilogy of, uh, for kids eight to 12 and it's science. So it's all STEM. That's my big thing. I'm a scientist. Are you going to send me, are you going to send me a copy so I can promote it? All right. Yeah, I'll get the whole trilogy out there to you. You'll be reading about helicity. Can people pre-order that right now?

Yeah, they can pre-order right now, and it's available. Isn't it next week? I have to get my life together. Get your life together. Well, be sure to check that out. Obviously, on Amazon, you can pre-order or wherever you buy books. Awesome. Well, thanks so much check that out. Obviously, on Amazon, you can order or wherever you buy books. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for joining, guys.

I really appreciate it. And as always, guys, thanks for listening. And don't forget to tune in tomorrow or tonight, rather, for another Listen to Your Heart recap. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.