The Viall Files - E1170 - Shannon Beador Talks RHOC + Mom Shaming Epidemic, Let's Marry Harry & Married At First Sight

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Shannon Beador joins us to celebrate 20 years of Housewives, 12 years on RHOC, and everything happening this season, from Tamra and Vicki to Carmella, dating, parenting, and why OC feels fun again. Then Jimmy Sotos stops by to break down Let's Marry Harry, Harry Jowsey's unlimited chances, and the latest Married at First Sight chaos. Plus, we get into mom shaming, trad wife discourse, Natalie's Whitney Leavitt comments, and why moms deserve more benefit of the doubt online. "I won't put the sword down, but I won't join the war." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes!   Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Spa Weekend: Book your escape and treat yourself to SPA WEEKEND. Only in theaters August 21st. Ollie: Head to https://ollie.com/viall, tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 70% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! BetterHelp: See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit https://betterhelp.com/viall  Tonal: Right now, Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your Tonal purchase with promo code VIALL when you go to https://tonal.com  Dose: Ready to give your liver the support it deserves? Head to https://dosedaily.co/viall or enter VIALL to get 35% off your first subscription. Quince: Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://quince.com/viall.  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:13 - Jimmy Joins 36:39 - Reality Recaps 1:25:22 - Shannon Joins 2:08:53 - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @shannonbeador @jsotos1 @susiecevans @ciaracrobinson @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

All right, everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Val Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household. We got Sierra Susie. We got Justin Bailey's in the room. We also have Jimmy Soto's back returning as like an unofficial member of the household.

It's been great. I like this couch, man. A young man who loves the content that we love talking about, who is balls deep in reality TV. Yeah, very much so. Unfortunately, so. It's kind of got me by the balls, yeah.

And the guts to talk about it because this, you know, you can get some heat. I do feel like, I do feel like the sign of an emotionally mature person and man is a willingness to like enjoy and talk about some of these emotional situations that we often find ourselves watching on reality TV. Did you think of yourself as like a emotionally superior young man? I actually did it. But then low key like I feel like the girls rallied around my takes on the internet. I said, I might be doing something right. My Dukes was proud of it, so. We'll just wait until they don't agree with you.

Yeah. Well, you know you're in the wrong when all the guys are like, this is the right take. If it's the girls, you're probably doing something right. If it's dudes, you might have said something crazy. I'll get in two with my homies about it. I'm like, bro, y'all, you're missing the point here. Yeah. Well, we have a lot of fun shows to talk about we got married at first sight.

Let's marry Harry. Harry's getting married. Whatever. Merry Harry. We have the queen, the icon, the house. wife who we love Shannon Bador is with us this episode and she is as enjoyable and delightful as always and she is late of this episode very excited for you guys to hear that conversation is oh she's one of my favorites just a breath of fresh air she just brightens my day love that how can anyone get upset by

Shannon Bador I don't know I need to talk I need to get something off my chest I need to talk mom shaming has gotten out of control here we go agreed do you know what mom shaming is no I'm excited to learn that. You know, we talked last week about like tradwives. And I think the, do you know what tradwives are? What? He's on a different side of TikTok. Welcome,

welcome to the wild files, Jimmy. Just like trad wives, mom shaming has become this nuanced conversation where we're ripping apart in critiquing moms for talking about their lived experience about being moms. And it's like the only result is now we're just going after moms for trying to talk about something that like they're close. obviously passionate about, also simultaneously scared and worried about if they're doing the right thing, but it's just gotten out of the control. And the amount of like men and non-moms, critiquing moms for sharing their experience about being moms is fucking crazy. You might ask

why I'm so. I was going to ask me, what brought this on? Where does it come from? Where's this coming from? Over the weekend, my wife, Natalie, she says hi, by the way, posted this video, which It was like the nanit. We have a nanit. Shout out Nanit. And it was like her sleep. Her gym. Yeah.

Shout out Nanit. And it was like showing moments of her like cuddling with River. Right. And I guess she was following some trend, which is really beside the point. But she was this like, I would take this over sleep training any day. Right. And sleep training is this like a type of, I don't know, parenting style, I guess when your kids are young. You know, my thought is the dad.

And was like, oh. what do you mean she is sleep she sleeps she's sleep trained i don't know what's is there is there more to it yeah uh turns out there is uh for us just like how we've gone about it and it really honestly is really selfish of us because like river is a pretty good sleeper she always has slept pretty well but like she would wake up and before the twins showed up once she woke up we would just bring her into bed with us and honestly it's been some of the most like magical moments as parents just like as she gets older it's just like there's just so many just like memorable moments like for example this weekend i got up you know she woke up so i went and slept in river's bed

with river i wake up it's like six or in the morning i look over rivers already up and she's reading a book just waiting for me to get up and then once i was up she started like in her version of reading a little boot truck if you if you know it you know it um and it's just like it's just so fucking it's just a memory like oh my god my daughter my daughter who like i remember just like again a world would she didn't exist and then when she was born just being this little potato and now I'm lying next to her and she's, it's just like such a memorable moment. Like,

and that was just a choice that we made, right? Would you be dad shamed for that? Is that what? Great question, Jimmy. I've never heard of the term dad shaming because like, I never heard mom shaming. Well, it exists.

If you search mom shaming on, on TikTok, how much content is there? Endless, I would say. Endless. A C. You've mentioned my substack.

I have a substack. I've leaned into talking about being a father. And I'm like, yeah, I do the dishes or whatever. And I'm a hero. Yeah. He takes the babies to the park by himself and they're like, oh my God,

how do you spend the time? How do you do it? Where I'm like, a mom has three babies on their arms and it's just like, anybody want to offer a little help? As a guy who doesn't usually enjoy the benefits of praise online, when I talk about being a dad, I can't find criticism.

But by doing the bare minimum, it's just like, it's like, I'm not an absent father. I got to get active on this page. Yeah, I got to start, I got to start getting active. Meanwhile, the mom shaming old discourse has turned in this nuanced conversation of how we're critiquing how moms talk about momming.

So anyways, so she put out this video. And the reality is it wasn't even a thing, right? Most people had the appropriate response was to like focus on like what Natalie was focusing on, which is like the quality time she's having her daughter. And like, I don't know, there was like a couple, I don't know, there was quite a few comments. And it was like almost overwhelmingly positive. But there were a couple of moms who chimed in who seemed to have, I guess, done the sleep training thing who were just advocating for sleep training, which is also just, I think I celebrate the discourse, right? But then Natalie is seeing this kind of snowball, right?

And seeing some people engage with this. And then there was one or two people who, like, accused her of mom shaming. And then Natalie had some, like, serious PTSD because if you follow this show and you have paid attention. mentioned in Natalie and I. She has been under fire for mom shaming, which in itself was crazy. Back, I think it was like early December. Whitney Levitt was coming off a dancing with the stars. Nally, a huge fan of Whitney, especially on Dancing with the Stars. If you watched it, like she just absolutely crushed. Whitney's a mom of three. She got casted on Chicago, and so we were talking about it. Natalie, now what people didn't know at the time, Natalie had just found out she was pregnant

with twins. So she can't talk, she's not talking about it. She also, like, for the, you know, this was after her experiencing three miscarriages, right? So, like, obviously we were super excited when she, we found out she was pregnant again, but incredibly nervous, incredibly scared. And this was, like, in the early stages with the pregnancies, she had never got past, like, week eight or nine or whatever. Wow. It was a really scary time.

And as, if you don't know, like, just a mom being stressed is, like, the absolute worst thing that a mom can experience during pregnancy. And that's the thing that can affect a pregnancy the most. I'm pretty sure, like, just stress. So, you know, we, like, we just found out we're having twins. Exciting, obviously. Also terrifying. You know, it's just like, when you're, you find out your family is going to grow,

it's exciting, but you're like, you're literally like, fuck, how are we going to fucking, how are we going to do this, bro? You got double up. Not to mention my wife, Natalie, is a working mom. She's, she works. She's, she influenced. She's on the show every day. And so being a fan of Whitney, she was just like, how does she do it, you know?

was the general theme of the message, right? And so we had a conversation. And then there is a creator out there, Steph with the Dietz, who made a video and, like accused Natalie of mom shaming. Keep in mind she had just found out she's having twins. And again, well, she wasn't comfortable announcing at this point, but while excited, as a working mom,

we're lucky enough that age of attraction was picked up. We have to go film that. It's not film where we live. And that's like another thing that pops in our head is like, how the fuck are we gonna, how are we gonna do this? Like it's, it was one thing with one kid, which was already hard. And we're lucky enough again to have help,

but even with help, every parent's just like, fuck, how do you do this, right? So being an admirer of Whitney, she was like, I wonder a mom of three, how,

like I want to be like Whitney Levitt. Like, Nally, young mom, simultaneously while being a young mom, is getting these incredible opportunities and her dreams are coming true all at the same.

time and it's just like a very challenging thing for any mom to figure how to manage both. This is the actual conversation that we had on the Vial Files about this topic. Here we go. Whitney, our girl, Roxie Hart, baby. I called it. I feel like Nick with Taylor, Frankie Paul. I think this is like great for her. I honestly think this is exactly what she needs to do.

I am curious, though. Can she say? I don't know, but I guess she'll learn. She can't, she will. She can do anything. I am curious, though, because obviously we had, you know, Taylor Frankie Paul doing, being the Bachelorette and she got a lot of criticism for, like, leaving her children and, like, prioritizing her and her career and finding love and whatever.

I am curious how Whitney, and maybe this is just on, like, a human level, mom level question, of just, like, how she's managing both, right? because right now her career has skyrocketed. She just did Dancing with the Stars for what, three, four months. I know she has kids in like school level. Maybe they're homeschooled. I don't know. But like how, like to be in L.A. for four months doing Dancing with the Stars and then to now

shift to New York City doing Chicago, like that takes so much of her time. How is she managing like prioritizing being a mom and her kids who I imagine have some sort of schedule and routine that like you know and I know their home base was Utah so it's like how I just I'm so curious three I'm just so curious like how that I mean they moved to LA for dancing with the stars right I feel like I saw a TikTok saying that that's what they were doing they were living in like and I think Connor you know is very hands-on very stand yeah yeah yeah also I mean as a person with no kids like I don't know how to do that but I do feel like there are a lot of like especially on Broadway um like there are a lot of Broadway stars with kids and like people who seem to figure it out and like serve on the stage.

I'm sure she'll figure out. I just think it's a fascinating question to Nali's point. We're like dancing with the stars and Broadway for Whitney. It's like it's not her you know to your point Mary if if like if if if Whitney just becomes let's say for the next six years she's like she's she's she's roxy from Chicago. I mean she'll figure it out it'll become their new life. Yeah to Nalia's point Whitney has gone from all right let's we're just we're going to uproot our life. We're moving to LA, we're going to do dancing with the stars, and then now we're going to uprood our life, we're going to go to New York, we're going to do Broadway. It's a lot for all of them. I mean, it's yet to their credit. I mean, I am curious how they're making it all work.

People don't do Roxy for more than like a stint, though, right? But even to Natalie's point, I'm like, even if it's like a month, two month run, like she's still going to have eight to 10 shows a week. And then she's also like rehearsal. You know, I feel like they're just even you get like one day off. Like, you know, Whitney, Carson, from Dancing with the Stars, who I know has two young boys, like, during filming of Dancing with the Stars, it's like they depend so much on their, you know, I don't know if they take their kids out of school. I don't know if they're just away from their kids for the four, three month period, or if their kids, you know, a lot of them don't even live in L.A. So, like, I'm just so curious,

like, how it's managed. Obviously, we have worked very busy. We're constantly on the go. We don't have, you know, she's not in school or anything yet, so we're still able to do that. but we realize, like, once she is in school, our life has to drastically slow down, you know? And it's like, I just can't imagine what is going through Whitney's head of, like, I'm finally getting like everything I've ever wanted in my life. And it's obviously happening at a time where, like, she's got three kids who I'm sure, like, demand her attention just as much as Roxy Hart and Dancing with the Stars does. So it's just, like, fascinating how everyone manages it all.

I don't know. This was the video that Steph with the Deeds made as a follow-up, I guess, to the conversation you just heard. Not Nick Vile and wife Natalie, basically mom-shaming Whitney Lovett. I'm finally getting like everything I've ever wanted in my life. And it's obviously happening at a time where like she's got three kids who I'm sure like demand her attention just as much as Roxy Hart in Dancing with the Stars does. Gotta say Natalie fully judging Whitney because she is taking these opportunities is a really. really hard to listen. And also got to say, if this was a man taking these opportunities and if he had children, no one would be questioning the man.

Exactly what she needs to do. I am curious, though. Can she sing? I don't know, but I guess she'll learn. If she can, she will. She can do anything. And Nick's little, can she sing? For your information, Nick, Whitney had said that she will be doing singing lessons. And Mark Ballas actually has a singing coach that he's going to hook her up with. Great. Can we pause for a second? If someone who can't sing, I just admire people who can thing and it's just an honest fucking question. Not everybody can dance to sing. Just wanted to know.

I'm curious though because obviously we had, you know, Taylor Frankie Paul doing, being the Bachelorette and she got a lot of criticism for like leaving her children and like prioritizing her and her career and finding love and whatever. I am curious how Whitney, and maybe this is just on like a human level, mom level question of just like how she's managing both, right? Because right now her career has skyrocketed. She just did dancing with the stars for what, three, four months. I know she has kids in like school level.

Maybe they're homeschooled. I don't know. But like how to be in LA for four months doing Dancing with the Stars and then to now shift to New York City doing Chicago. Like that takes so much of her time. How is she managing like prioritizing being a mom and her kids who I imagine have some sort of schedule and routine that like, you know, and I know their home base was Utah. So it's like, I just so curious.

Three. I'm just so curious. Like here's the thing. Talk about Whitney on the show and what. whatever she does on the show. But to then be like, I wonder how she's going to make this word. Blah, blah, blah. Definitely judging Whitney for taking these opportunities that mind you is not just for her. It's literally for her family's well-being. Also, let's not forget, her husband Connor is a stay-at-home dad. So while she's in New York for a few months, taking this huge opportunity, the kids will be okay.

I think it's one thing to like not like someone's behavior on a show and call them out on it. but it's a whole other thing when you're literally mom shaming them. The whole, I'm just curious. That is you passing judgment. That's not being curious. You're not curious. You don't care. Honestly, why should you care?

It's not your children, right? They have a fully involved father. And it's actually funny because when they had announced Taylor Frankie Paul as the Bachelorette, they were talking about it on their podcast, and Nick was so excited because he had called that, they didn't bring this up. And this is probably why Nick Vihel is no longer the host of the Secret Lives and Mormon Wives Reunion.

So anyways, this created a whole thing. I don't know if you know what it's like to have the weight of the internet come for you, but it's heavy. It's heavy and scary. And so Natalie's pregnant with twins. She just found out very like, very sensitive time. And so all I'm thinking about is I'm just telling Natalie

like this shit doesn't matter. Who gives a fuck? You know, whatever. I'm just like literally thinking about the health of my wife and my unborn babies. This is the only thing is going on my mind. Nali is like in tears, right? She DMs Whitney and was just like,

yo, I'm sure you have better things to do, but if this is like, if this crosses your desk, like this is not what I meant and, and, you know, I think you're amazing. I'll never forget, like two nights later. We're up at the lake, we're watching TV. And like, again, Niley had a lot of anxiety about just like this pregnancy

because she had three miscarriages prior to this. My mom, I have 10 brothers and sisters. She's had 11 kids. I don't know if you know that, but my mom's mom's mom before. And so obviously, my mom has like a lot of insight and it's just her experience and so my mom I don't know what she made

this comment where she's like well as long as you don't like experience cramps and again my mom's not a doctor but she just you know whatever I don't she just said it I don't know later that night we're lying in bed and Nally just started experiencing these excruciating cramps right and just it was

it was just not normal it was like every few minutes she just be hit with this pain that was like it like it you would think someone's dying, right? And in that moment, like, we were both like, oh, fuck, it's happening again. Like, we, we went to bed that night, not worried that it's happening. Like, we went to bed thinking she's having another miscarriage.

It was a terrible fucking, thankfully, that's not what happened. Turns out, it's just one of the many things that pregnant mothers have to deal with. And it turns out when, I guess if you're pregnant with twins, your body's like, we about to have some twins showing up. So we're not to fuck up inside of your body and just make fucking room. And that was apparently the pain that Nali was experiencing. Again, just a lot of things that like pregnant moms have to experience that are just like, it's scary.

It's it just fucks up your body, fucks up your mentals. It just fucks up your emotions. And so again, like to that point, you have a bunch of moms just trying to figure it the fuck out. And so like, yeah, it was just a terrifying fucking time. while like no one's giving the moms the benefit of doubt. Being a parent, you know what I'm saying? Like, it is, you just, there's so much information out there,

which is, you know, it's, what sucks about this whole thing, this mom shaming is it has stopped, like, great information being out there. Once Natalie found out she was pregnant with twins, like she's, she watched a ton of like twin mom videos and she found many of them incredibly helpful. As a new dad, I'm paying a lot more attention to like parenting discourse out there. The thing I've noticed, though, is like being a parent is a thing like I've honestly, like, enjoy talking about the most these days because it's like something I'm really passionate about. But also, it is like a scary space to talk about because like there's just so much vitriol

and like people critiquing how people talk about it. It stopped people from wanting to talk about it. And honestly, as parents who honestly, everyone's just trying to figure it the fuck out, they want the information, right? And parents can then decide from that point what is useful to them, what is not. feel useful to them. The reality is when it comes to parenting, there are so many, like, there's a lot of, like, definitely some core tenets and some best practices of like, hey, you should, you know, try this and not try this. And there are certainly, like,

child experts out there that have some really useful information about, like, especially, like, explaining, like, how your child, like, your kids three years old, well, this is how their brain works. And that's, like, as a parent, been super helpful. Everything else, there's just a million different, like, ways of doing it. And parents are just, like, picking and choosing what works for them because everything is situational. You know, some people have help. Some people don't have help. Some people, like, have kids who have different personalities.

You know, God forbid, your kid has to, you know, deal with something that changes the equation of how you parent. And so instead of mom specifically being able to, like, go out there and share their experience because, like, listen, every parent is specifically moms, like, they're just celebrating their wins. Because when you're a mom, every mom experiences so much just. like guilt and they have their own shame. You know what I'm saying? They have their own guilt about like how their body is showing up for them and their babies and like anything that doesn't go well.

It's like it's something moms take personally. And so when moms like have a moment like Nally had a moment with River and wants to celebrate that and talk about it, like we're just critiquing how moms talk about it in a way that's like the only thing mom shaming has become is shaming moms for wanting to talk passionately about something that's really important going on in their life. And again, I don't know what Steph of the Deed situation is, but like the fact that we're not giving moms the benefit of the doubt to talk about this experience in a way that allows them to just speak without fear of how people are going to nitpick it. And again, like, I think it's great that parents are out there comparing. Like, have the discourse, compare what works for you and not

working for you. But that's not mom shaming to have a conversation about different styles at work. You know what I'm saying? Like the sleep. thing. I have a lot of respect for the parent because like that's a discipline thing, right? And what I've learned when it comes to parenting, the hardest part about parenting is to figure out how you're going to discipline your kid. When it comes to disciplining, you have a choice to make. Is it like, do you have to like really lean in and say no and hold your ground? Because like that's like a long term benefit in the short, you know, like sometimes like for example, sleeping with river. We're doing it for us. You know, we're not necessarily doing it for River. She's also only two and a half and we're not like

worried that we're going to fuck her up in any way. But like that's just like a choice we made. There's no right or wrong. Like if you if you're if you're getting a full night's sleep because you've done the work, God bless you. You know what I'm saying? You're not. No one's critiquing that. But the way the internet and again, it's not even real life. Real life is moms out there in the wild just supporting each other, helping each other out, being like you got this. A hundred times out of a hundred when we've interacted with young parents. That's all it is. It's just positive reinforcement, it's encouragement, it is support. None of this bullshit you're seeing online with us attacking moms for talking about being moms and then assuming the worst or moms being curious

and genuinely wanting to know how other successful parents and moms who are working are being successful, knowing full well that like your life is about to change and you don't know how the fuck you're going to figure it the fuck out, regardless of how much help you have or don't have, especially moms. Like I, I can go to work and know that I show up and I don't feel that, you know, pressure. Now, like, right now she's breastfeeding,

you know, it's like there's this against a lot of internalized guilt and shame of like leaving, you know, like now that river gets older, it's the best, right? Especially for me because like once it's, and it was honestly crazy because we were kind of nervous.

We knew that we kind of like spoiled ourselves when it came to like letting river sleep with us. And we did that up into the point where the twins were born. So we were like, oh, fuck, once the twins show up, she's not going to be able to sleep with us because we're going to have to do all the feeding. It's going to wake her up and shit like that.

But as soon as the twins showed up, River immediately was like, was attached to her bed and she wanted us to come. It was kind of like almost like, oh shit. Like how did she figure that it was wild? I'm sharing so many more moments with River because again, now she has to share us as parents and it's kind of this organic thing

where I think she's gravitating to me a little bit more. when it comes to moms and their kids, they're the North Star. You know what I'm saying? And listen, moms love their kids. But like when, when every moment of every day,

every kid you have, you're there a go-to emotional support system and they're constantly going, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like River will constantly go to Natalie, right? You know, the twins need Natalie. That's a lot every day for any mom

when your kid is like you're there, like you're an extension of them. And moms feel that connection with their babies, right? And so when you win for whatever reason don't feel like you can show up for your child, there's an immense amount of like guilt and weight and shame to that that like dad's never experience or feel. And like again, most moms out there just talking about their experience of being moms is this trying to them trying to celebrate a win. And maybe they don't say it perfectly. I mean and just I want it like as a dad give my wife her flowers. Natalie we wanted to be parents that the sacrifice any

person who chooses to want to be a mom they that the way they have to give up their body you're emotionally mentally you know physically you have no you have some kind of no agency you know what I'm so you don't get to make the choices you don't you don't make the rules you're just your only goal is to like keep this thing alive and you just have to roll with the punches which already is like this crazy thing I'm just a man I just had a front row seat to my wife so this was this her you know my experience of observing her. But like, yeah, there are over the course of nine months, there are so many days that are just, it's excruciating. You know, it's just, it's painful. You know, especially when she was like, you know, at the end of her pregnancy with twins,

the fact that the twin showed up three weeks early, they were born at 37 weeks, which means, like, technically they were supposed to live inside of Natalie for three more weeks and they came out as like two little humans just beating the fucking shit out of her, you know, inside. You know what I'm saying? Out of each other, but I was ready to get out. It's a lot. It is a lot. And it takes an emotional and mental toll. It literally just drains you from the inside.

And if you are a parent of another child, like you're just trying to get through the fucking day. And God forbid when you want to talk about parenting or share your experience that you don't have some sort of approval committee on social media, making sure you sit it the perfect way in a way that won't in any way be misinterpreted in some way. And the amount of, again, non-parents out there.

inserting themselves in this conversation. That part. You know, critiquing moms for, again, just wanting to talk about it. And again, and then assuming the worst, not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Because again, it is scary. And I want to be able to talk about being a parent in a way that feels safer. Because, like, honestly, to be a parent, you need the humor. Like, the only way you get through those, like, nights in the middle of the night where, like,

your twins are screaming and river wakes up. And it's just like, you're kind of like, holy fucking shit, what is going on? There's a lot of moments like that. But you know what? We look at each other and you kind of laugh. Because they get through parenting, it requires humor. And we've taken the humor about talking about being parents because, like, everyone is just like... Black and white.

Like, you've got to do this. And again, it's just like the only people who seem to be attacked are moms. You know what I'm saying? And like, I will say to the parents out there, something I've learned as a parent. Like, there's a lot of people who don't want to be parents, who aren't parents yet. And they don't give a fuck about your needs and challenges. And nor should they. And it's also not moms.

shaming because someone who's not a mom doesn't empathize with your experience. That's like, you don't, you know, you don't know what it's like. It makes sense. But just like, shut the fuck up. If, like, if you have an opinion about what it's like to be a parent or specifically a mom and you don't know what it's like to like all the shit that goes on in a mom's life and how it is just like, they're just not, they don't get to be themselves. You know, they don't, like, they have to give up so much to have this. Again, and there's so many benefits that. come from it. And when it comes to parenting, the only thing that I, like, I love talking about it, the only, like, message that I want to convey is that if you're interested, if that's something

you've thought about, that, well, yes, there are challenges and there are scary moments, that the pros outweigh the cons. That's just been my experience. Can't speak for everyone. But, like, there is something about, like, we got this one life. And I don't know what you guys are like, what your purpose in life is, but like, life is lonely, and now that we are lucky enough to be parents, we have these three beautiful girls that, like, we get to be a family for a period of time, and we get to try to, like, make their lives better. And when I have a bad day and I come home and I get to lie in bed with my daughter and I get to look over and she's reading a book, it really doesn't matter what's going out in the world. And that's, for me, been an incredible thing. And for anyone who's

interested who has heard all the negative and scary things about parenting, I want people who are interested to know that it's been good for me. And if that's something you find helpful, great. And if you don't find it helpful, also great. Like, you can definitely see something. Again, it could be not for you. The not for you page is something we need on social media. Not for you. It's just like, sorry their algorithm found it, whatever. It's not for you. You don't find it helpful. Great. It wasn't your choice. You went a different direction. Also fine. But like, why the fuck are we going after moms for just trying to like talk about and share an experience when again all most moms are just as great as it can be it's always a terrifying moment it's there's always something going on where you're

like fuck it's like magical as young parents you know i wasn't that young when i became a dad but like i've never been a dad before and like it's it's amazing how many things it's kind of like you just figure it out but also every day simultaneously it's kind of like they survived another day you know about dad what I was saying. Holy shit. We fucking did it. You know, and again,

it's just, it's crazy. So you definitely have a lot of parents out there wondering what it's like, you know, or curious. And it's the comparison. Like moms and parents,

specifically moms should be able to talk about something that's worked for them and celebrate that. And they should be able to even talk about something that didn't work for them and have that not be

taken as offense to anyone if that other thing also worked for them. And it's just more like, why are we, of all the people we could not be going after online. The fucking moms.

Like, why are we not giving moms a benefit of the doubt? And not that I think we should start shaming dads, but holy shit. Anyways, um, thank you for listening. Yeah, thank you for sharing. And honestly, thank you, shout out Natalie, who's killing it

and you come into her defense. Like, you know? It was just terrible. Like, over the weekend, just like, she posted this video and she spent all day literally like waiting for Steph with the deeds to be like, she's, Natalie Joy, has added again with the mom

shaming. And it's, It's just like I, listen, I don't know stuff with the deeds. I don't know her story. I would like to think that, you know, in this world, it's very easy to not think about what's going on in other people's lives. And I would like to think that if she happens to hear us talk about this and to hear about like just how scary of a time that was as a result of her like making that video, that she would feel bad. I'd like to think that she didn't think that she was going to create what she created. But it's just, more like mom moms deserve the benefit of the doubt i mean even that time like it was honestly like really disappointed because there were like there were prominent creators in reality tv people who like chose to speak on that and like one of them was this like even thought that like when when they spoke on it was like suggested that maybe nalie didn't mean what stuff of the deed suggested that she meant but still called her weird for it's just like wait you're you're also a working mom like why Why are we assuming that she just didn't like was that she wasn't just naturally curious and she just wanted to to learn?

It's just like, what are we, why are we going after? Hearing it back now as well, I didn't know that you guys were pregnant until shortly after that. But to hear how Natalie spoke about it and to hear the context of age of attraction, Natalie getting the opportunity to host a Netflix show is, it is truly a dream come true. And I, you know, my experience is not coming from the place of being a mom, but I feel like I'm in my 30s and I'm like, wow, opportunities are happening to me. And my career is taking off, but I'm in a place where I feel like I should be settling down. And that is really challenging for me. And I look around and I'm like, what am I supposed to do? I wish I knew what I'm supposed to do right now.

And so having the context of Natalie knowing she's pregnant and she's getting all of these amazing opportunities, her career is popping off. And just having that context, I think it does paint such a picture of like the genuine curiosity. And I'm like picturing her sitting there. Only you two know at that point that she's pregnant with twins. And she's like, wow, all these amazing things are literally in the exact same position as Whitney where it's like all of these things are happening for me. But like I'm also starting a family and I'm trying to balance everything. It provides so much color to the picture. Sure.

But even like without that color. I know. You know what I'm saying? I agree. The idea that like the average mom. Yeah. If any mom was having a similar conversation in Natalie without being a host of a Netflix show or not knowing what's going on in their life. My point is like why are we assuming that that particular mom is trying to trash some other mom?

Right. As opposed to just actually being curious. Like why are we assuming that they're trying to be shady? Like again, like in real life, that's not happening. Moms are just out there supporting each other. Yeah. Like it's honestly a really beautiful thing every time we travel to run into a young family. And there's this like a because again, a lot of people who aren't parents don't give a fuck.

And nor should they and nor they care. But when you find someone going through it, just like you're going through it, you're sharing best practices, you're giving moral support. Moms like Nelly and other moms that are always just like encouraging each other. It's like that is real life. And then online we're just like shitting on moms for just like talking about it because they're not talking about it in the way that you think they should be talking about. it or you're assuming that they're you know it's just fucking crazy it is you know it's not gonna go viral or get engagement if they're too sensitive to was if they make a blanket statement yeah and it's tough because these creators who again like often will like remove context from the

video or insert their opinion like they make these videos and they monitor like they get paid for like she made money off that video because it went viral and like and it's and at that point then you're questioning it's like what like were her intentions actually was she actually even curious or she just She saw an angle. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I like to think for, you know, again, it's just, but like, let's just let's just let off the moms, you know, like, moms are amazing. Do you want to be dad someday?

I do. Yeah. Sweet. I was thinking while you were talking about it, like I got a new nephew. My brother just had a baby. And they're weighing, they're both working parents and they're trying to figure out like the nanny situation if they're both going to be trying to further their careers. And I feel like if they were to be publicly living their lives, there be people like bashing them for. Well, that's another thing that I've noticed that's also weird.

Is this like the whole within the parenting community help? Yeah. It's like people. Like my mom's. People are afraid to talk about it. We try to be like we're pretty open. Like we definitely have help. We're very fortunate.

Even with help, again, parenting is fucking hard, right? And we have our way of doing it like in LA. You learn about night nurses and things like that. And a lot of people's, we've chose not to. That's totally fine. That's just like we just whatever. We're psychos. We apparently want to wake up every night.

whatever. But like there's so many people out there who don't feel comfortable talking about the type of help they're getting because again, they're afraid of the internet and what people are going to say. And then meanwhile, you have parents who want to be like, no, fucking, what do you do? How do you do it? Yeah, let's talk about it. I just like, it's, it's crazy and that you, no one's comfortable talk and they're like afraid to admit they have help. It's a damn shame. It's, it's fucking crazy. And apparently, like, it's, I don't, it's. Well, it's subjective from one instance to the next. Like, One kid might need more, one kid might need less. Literally.

By the time my parents got to me, they had three tries at it. So, like, they were, like, super, like, by the book with my oldest brother. And then with me, my dad was just like, my dad was like, he'll be a high. Like, let me know when he starts talking. But, like, I want, like, as a young dad who's still figuring it out, like, I want more content. I want more discouse. I want to see the humor in it. But, like, I think a lot of people are afraid to really just, hey, look at this what's

going on because they know they're going to be online. people are going to like pick it apart, criticize it, make it a whole thing. Right. And turn into this whole like nuanced mom shaming conversation where I don't know what the origins of mom shaming. I'm sure there's a whole like, you know, college course I could take.

But I don't think this was it. Well, as if it's like there's a right way to be a mom. Like that's the thing. It's like, yeah. That's annoying. Anyway. All right. Anyways, moving on from the mom shaming.

There's a guy living in a Netflix billboard. On sunset. I saw. this. I didn't really what's going on? So there's a movie on Netflix called The Last House that they're promoting and I haven't seen the movie yet but whoever

is doing marketing for Netflix needs a race. They put a man in a billboard on sunset and he has been living in there. He has a whiteboard so people have been making videos and communicating with him from the street no one knows. I was like my main question was is there air conditioning in there? Is there plumbing?

It's great. It's getting there like. It's 97 degrees outside and he's inside a billboard on sunset. Are people, like he hasn't left? Are people monitoring the situation? People are starting to monitor it. Yeah, like we saw one video that said maybe he was leaving because they saw somebody in a construction outfit

come down from it. It's like a sci-fi horror thriller. This needs to be live streamed. Oh, yeah. There are people on the streets. I drove by yesterday or two days ago. And it's just a crowd out on the street and he's just right into them communicating.

You've got creators that are going up there doing whole bits. I saw one group of creators that ordered him a pizza from DoorDash. Did he eat it? Well, they opened the pizza box and it was a pepperoni pizza and he wrote on it, I'm vegan with a sad face. Oh my gosh. But Netflix

is paying this man to live in this billboard and it is fascinating. That's great marketing. That is really cool marketing. And in the movie they're stuck inside a house so. Okay. Kind of appropriate. How should they market age of attraction? With a live

Like an age difference couple in a billboard Bill and Jordan There you go We should give Bill They should be like our expert couple Yeah they're the proof of concept Bring them in Speaking of Netflix shows

Mary Harry Oh Mary Mary Mary Mary is out It is streaming It's a I like it It's a silly fun show Yeah Yeah it's very obviously Bachelor coded

Can I ask a question of somebody Who hasn't fully dived into this yet Do we think He's actually going to marry someone. No. No. There's no shot. I think he might. There's no shot. Like married at first sight, I don't understand like the actual like behind the legal. The legal

behind the scene logistics. You know what I'm saying? Like so you can have a ceremony and have it out and actually be legal and then you can like a lot of people, you get married in Mexico. That's not seen as legal. You have to get married into courthouse here. So if you have a destination wedding out of the country, it's like a whole thing people do. So I don't know like I imagine it's some version of that where it's like, I guess if it works out, you could actually get married,

but like we can just have a ceremony. For their sake, I hope that's what they do. You know what I mean? I'm like, let's not make anything legal here. But like, yeah, do the white dress, put a ring on. And let's see if it works. Give it six months. And then if you think you're in, then go for the courthouse.

I've only seen four episodes. Now, oh, I watched the full thing. Yeah, caught up. I, maybe you can shed so light. But like, I've been hard on Harry Jawsy in the past. I called him an emotional terrorist once. Oh my gosh, Nick. I mean, bro, go ahead.

I'm a little harsh. I mean a little, probably harsh. But like, you know, our girl, Jess Vesta was in a relationship with him. She had her stories. And like, we love her. I want, like, I'm curious for you, Jimmy. Do you realize the power you have? No, I'm starting to realize that like the magnitude of my influence.

But I don't, I guess I don't really see it. And I don't even like, but the reason, the way I frame that question is, like Harry Jousey is someone, and I would include you in this, but like, Harry will have unlimited chances. Mm-hmm. Unlimited. Unlimited chances. It will not matter what he does in any of these relationships.

He is a beautiful, tall, successful, charismatic, rich, famous man. And it just, well, he will have literally unlimited chances with beautiful women to just figure it out, right? And so there's like, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. Anyways, this show, like, shout out to the net, like, the producers of the show because, like, if someone who's been The Bachelor, what they never do, they do not cast for the lead. They cast for not for the lead. It's just like, they're like, hopefully they like one, you know. But they clearly cast you for Harry. Like, the man's like, I like Burnett.

So, like, it's like all burnets. but like if you're going to make someone, you know, either get engaged or get married and have this pressure of like, you know, from a small selected group of people that he doesn't get to pick

do this, you should be casting for that person. So like shout out to Netflix for actually seemingly like casting for Harry. I feel like they actually. Yeah. I feel like that'd be, again,

I haven't seen The Bachelor, but I feel like that was the point. Why would you do anything other than that? I feel like they did what The Bachelor should have been doing for the last like five years. I feel like Bachelor really hit its peak and then it plateaued and then kind of

downfalled. I feel like I look at this show and I'm like the cinematography, the casting, the dates, even the compatibility dates, like yeah, sure, they're cheesy and whatever, but you're actually getting a little bit of information. Shout out David Freedom. Showrunner of, let's Mary Harry, same showrunner for age of attraction because he's the best. I like the challenge. I did a really good job. The patability test, I like all those.

Yeah. To give, I don't know. I've only seen like four episodes, but, and maybe Harry starts acting out. But as someone who's called an emotional terrorist in the past,

I feel like early on he's being a little hard on himself. Because like early on he's like, I'm making out with everyone. I gotta stop making out with everyone. Like the whole, like when you're in that controlled universe and you are presented a bunch of people

that at a minimum you're like physically attracted to. And then you are in charge, like as the lead, he's the lead of the show. All the women there are, really counting on him to like have the comp they're all nervous he's the famous one right and that's then that creates a lot of pressure on harry and like when you don't know what to talk about you make out that's just all that happens right and so like i feel like and and like that the bachelor like a

wholesome show that doesn't lead you know tries not to lead for the most part into the raunchy they still are making out with everyone and and you have harry being like i'm making out with too many people and he's like he's being hard on himself in a way it's just like man like what else he is supposed to do yeah and they're making him he's living in the house with these women brilliant brilliant by the way but they have unlimited access to this man in a way that they're like the bachelor in the bachelor would never have and when and that whole world is about competition so when so when someone makes out with someone you know it becomes like well all the other ladies the competitors so speak they're they're the ones who are they're putting in harry in situations where how is he

you can't yeah have you got have you gotten to the the L word part yet where he like he accuses himself of love bombing no no he yeah there you're gonna spoil it am i allowed to spoil it yeah can we spoil it it's out yeah okay yeah this part is so interesting I'm curious your take on this should we set it up for Nick so so yeah set it up okay so um what is it Emma juliana juliana Juliana. Juliana. Okay. Juliana and Harry, you know, have this connection.

He says... Which one's Juliana? She's... Burnett. Is he the one who, like, he gets in the bed with first? There she is. Oh, her. Okay.

Yeah. So there's a strong connection. She was kind of crashing out really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He talks to her a lot about his father. And I felt like that. When you open up to somebody, you sort of like, you know, you build that emotional connection.

But then they're in bed. and he's like, they're going back and forth, love bombing. And he's like, well, you say it first. And she's like, no, you say it. And he's like, well, I need you to, I need to hear it from you. And then finally, she says, I love you. And he goes, oh my gosh, like that's something, whatever. He was like, no, why would you say that?

And you think in that moment, you're like, okay, like, he realized he went too far. And then moments later, he says, I love you too. Yeah, he was like, he was like, she was saying something. He was like, no, no, no. He's like, because I love you. He was like, oh. And then he, yeah. And he had said, like, a couple episodes prior, like, there's something about her that makes me feel toxic.

I feel like I'm resorting back to my old ways. Like, I feel myself wanting to love bomb her. Like, it comes easy with her, specifically. And then, meaning he had to tell his shirt of he love her. He, like, they had to figure out who's going to stay, who's going to leave. She got the boot. Yeah, he. I was like, damn, bro.

Literally told her, he loved her, and then kicked her off next episode. I'm curious, like, what did you think about him sending her home? Did you think that that was necessary? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think he fucked up. And the only way to write that wrong is to like, like, yo, I fucked up so bad that like it's probably best.

But also, I'm guessing he sent her home because he didn't like her as much as he liked the other. Yeah, that too. He knew, yeah, that he wasn't going to marry her. I would have felt really bad for her because I'm sure that was probably an emotional roller coaster. But she was going and telling everything to the other girls. She was running her mouth a little bit. And I was like, what are you doing? I'm like, this is like, rule number one.

She was also fabricating the story too a little bit. Fabricating the story. She was telling it from a totally different perspective. So it was a good choice to send her home, in my opinion. And I will say kind of to your point, I think Harry was being a little hard on himself. I think he has more depth than people think. And then I just, I finished the last episode that's out right now. And I'm like, what's going on, Harry?

I'm like, I think it's exactly what Nick said. The power that he has. He has unlimited chances with women. And if you don't, not everything, I'm sure, but like I realized with Samantha, the final three girl, the final third girl, when the situation about lying comes up about sex and all that stuff. He was between a rock and a hard place there, to be fair. He was, he was. Walk me through it. Okay, yeah.

So, boom, he does the I love you thing. And then, um, what was your name, Sammy? Samantha. Samantha. Or Sam. Sam. Sam was like. So we heard that you told her you love her like is that true or not?

So actually it was about hurt him and Amber in the shower. With sex. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did they have sex in the shower? My bad, yeah. Yeah, okay, here we go. So check it out, check it out, check it out.

Amber and Harry, they- Could you imagine if the Bachelor or the Bachelor had sex in the shower? They go in the shower and they actually don't have sex in the shower. They run the water so that you can like mess with the audio or whatever, but they have sex. in the bathroom. And Sam, it was Sam where? How much they show? I'm getting the name's confused.

So Amber. Amber was in the shower. You heard of Sarah. So yeah. Sam walked upstairs. That was it. Harry and Amber doing a nasty in the bathroom. Sam walks upstairs, clocks it off, reports back to the guys or the girls.

And it became a whole thing like, Harry. So did I hear what I thought I heard? Like are my intentions right? And Amber and Harry were like, made it pack. Amber was like, this stays between us, this dies here. So Harry was like, do I break her trust and spill, kiss and tell? So he made one problem, you know, that's the problem of juggling relationships. What we think is the right thing to do because I thought in that moment, I felt the same way that Sam would have felt when I was on The Bachelor.

Clayton was into with other women and it came up. And I respected so much that he was honest about it because it was really hard to work through. But I was like, I can at least. There's no right way. There's, yeah. Because like if she's like, if she's like. like, yo, please don't tell anyone, they're all going to like come for me. And that moment you got to choose. And him's version of being honest with the group is them like potentially like, let's be honest, making her feel like slut shamed. Yeah. But, you know, or creating the opportunity for other people to slut shame her. Right. Or does he lie to other like what? There's no win. There's absolutely no win. Now the, the context of this though, that is really interesting for me is that and I think it's really important.

like with my history from The Bachelor and all that stuff, the biggest regret, I think, for myself and from Clayton and maybe from Harry as well is that you then expose it to the world and it is an intimate thing and it should be a personal thing and that is where you run the risk. Episodes later, Harry comes out and tells the world that he had sucks with Amber. So I'm like, you weren't keeping it a secret secret.

You were just keeping it a secret from one girl on the show that made it to your final three that was in... Well, that was almost certainly producer-driven. You think so? Yeah. For what? To not tell the other girl? Well, I don't know.

I remember on my season of the bat, they, they casted a woman I met at a wedding, Jaden Tanner's friend. Okay. That's fuck. I know. Dirty. And I was like, listen, because I had heard rumblings of something going on,

and I called the producers like, I just want to make it clear. Like, I have no regrets in my dating life. I've met a lot of great people, but like, I'm not interested in marrying anyone from the past. Yeah. Why her? And they knew that we hooked up at the wedding. And like the story was is that like, you know, like, I remember, you know, when it happened, I was like, oh, why don't you give me your number?

And she's like, let's just not. And I remember being like, cool. But like I asked and they had knew, they, the producers knew I asked because they had talked to her. So like in their mind, like you have an out because you asked. Right. And I was so pissed because I was like, I don't, like, I don't, I don't want to talk about. I don't, I knew they were going to make. But like, they made me till the whole group made. I mean, again, like, it was my choice. but like there was a lot of pressure to announce to the cast that we had hooked up at a wedding because I needed to be you know because they got she started telling it was a whole thing it was like again it wasn't her fault was my fault but like it was I think the producers encouraged him to say it to say it which that you know that could be but I think then it kind of takes away from him not talking to Sam which leads to the point that you were saying earlier where he has this unlimited ability and I feel like people feel disposable to him. That's what I'm seeing at the end of this where Sam, Sam has a complex with this and she's like, I would be able to work with this if he told the truth, but I feel like he's lying. Well, that's the thing, right, about Harry. It's like he's clearly someone who's been open about his past and childhood traumas and sounds like he's had a lot going on.

And it sounds like rightfully he's got some things to work through, right? And so we're all imperfect people. And when we date, we're not finished products. We figure it out. But like at some point, The challenge is, is him to recognize how much he has going for him, which is like these unlimited chances. And like, well, it's good to recognize and it's good to apologize. The only way to not get yourself in these no-win situations is to try to make the difficult and right decision before the thing happens so that you're not like messing with people's emotions.

I'm curious for someone like you, you're a young man. I'm assuming you're aware of like the discourse online about men, right? And how does that, like, and how do you interpret that as someone like yourself who, again, like, you have a limited chance. Like, you're tall, athletic, charming, you know, like, you might not be to everyone's type, but there's enough of people who out in the world being like, I don't care what Jimmy did. I want a shot. You know what I'm saying? You will have unlimited chances. So I guess, like, I'm sure as a young man, it can feel like the internet never gives you men the benefit of the doubt.

but I'm curious as a young man yourself, like what responsibility do you feel like you have when you're out there in the dating world, knowing that, like, you have unlimited chances? Yeah, I'll be honest, very recently, like, I found myself almost over-explaining, like, being too sensitive to somebody's emotions or feelings when they were like, this ain't even that deep, bro.

Like, my bad, I was trying to be, like, proactive here and let you know that, like, this may not go a certain direction. She was like, bro, I never, like, we just started talking, like relax. So like maybe that has trickled into my, I don't know, behavior, I guess, or the way I go about getting into know women and figuring out like if this is something worth exploring or not. But I feel like that's, it's better to be more cautious.

I'd rather, yeah. Consider it rather than. Yeah. Just like ghost somebody. Just doing it and then finding out someone's upset and then. Assuming that we were on the same page when like we weren't. Yeah. I would, yeah, I would agree.

It's better to be proactively transparent. And maybe come across as cringy a little bit. Yeah. Who cares? Like, because the right person's going to appreciate that. And when you do find that person, they're going to value that so much. Whereas somebody, yeah, it's casual. They were like, dude, it's all good. But I guess at this stage of this, of Harry doing the show, like, we, we know who Harry is.

I mean, to a certain extent, right? And I think he's, he's leaning into his character, so to speak. That's why I think. So it's like, we've already criticized the behavior. Like, I mean, at this point, it's like he's making good TV. That's why I think the show, like, as much as I like, I'm like, bro, like, what are we, what are we talking about? There's no way he's ready for marriage.

I almost think it's like perfect if it's intentionally satirical. Like, he's playing into the bit. It's how to date a fuck boy. That's the show. Like, there's no way. Literally the most recent episode, the last episode, he's like, I'm in love with two women. Who am I going to marry?

Like, there's your answer. You're not going to, like, if you're still in love with two women, shorthy. You shouldn't marry anybody. Like, that's why I think that's the bit. Well, for 30 years, that's trying to convince and gaslight the world that you could be deeply in love with two people at the same time. Like, like, fuck. No, respectfully, bro.

Like, there's no way he's actually going to get married, stay married. If he's like actually, I mean, maybe what do I know? Maybe I have a traditional view on how marriage is supposed to work. It's maybe I'm pulling me as in. We'll find out. This Wednesday. Wednesday, the finale, you find out. When is that?

August 12th, Wednesday, yeah. I also will say, like, him having to navigate all this, like, amidst, like, the, or on the cusp of him, I feel like his father passing. I almost feel like this is probably not the right time either like I don't know that's super heavy well reality TV certainly leans into our trauma yeah true

I guess that may make for better TV which it feels dystopian it humanizes people yeah you know it's like I also think that final two women are really really strong in their own ways totally different vibes it's Amber and then Danelle Danelle Cole bro

Bailey can't bring it. Yes. So I think that neither one of them is going to put up with any BS from Harry. I always said the girl from Milwaukee, Wisconsin went home early. Cheesehead. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So he was into her.

She's one of the finalists? Yeah, he was into her for them. He gave her the first ring. Not surprising that he is into older women. Really? Why is that? I resonate. Because I think he's, I mean, what Harry's always been vulnerable about is to like being, I mean,

being a little emotionally immature. He's at least owned that. And I think he's had his struggles. And I think he, I think he thinks an older, more mature person will help him. And hold him accountable. In a way that, like, I think he has to be willing and acknowledge that no one's going to change him.

No one has the, it just has to come from him. But I think it's easier. Like, when you pick a partner, you want someone who help, you know, like. Yeah. You know, I was joking with Natalie over the weekend. It's just like, we make us such a good team. like I'm sitting here on the weekend thinking about humanity, you know, thinking about like what other type of men

are going to be available for our, you know, if they date men, you know, and Natalie is making sure we get through tomorrow, you know. Yeah, that works great. Yeah. Like we're going to the, like, she's setting the appointments. You know, she's just making sure we survive tomorrow while I'm thinking about like, yeah. How do we get through the world?

You know? And yeah, you want someone who balances you out, you know? And I think sometimes in that vein we find people that don't necessarily balance out but allow us to like hopefully fix us in a way that we haven't been able to fix ourselves. I can see that. Okay. But that's just a theory. Yeah.

I have a question just about the show in general. Would you guys all trust your friends and X to choose your spouse for you? That's what I was like, who would be my confidance for this show? No, I don't want anyone's opinion. Nobody's? I mean, not really. I would definitely have my mom and my homie. I mean, like, I guess.

I don't know. As you get older, I yield. But it's one of those. like they know me better than I know myself sometimes. And maybe that's probably about it. Sometimes you just got to shoot your shot, take a risk. I mean, like the two people, like outside of my parents who obviously, I, like, their opinion manners to me, people who, they married Natalie and I.

And so there are two people who like, I really trust their opinion, you know, like, I admire them both as people, you know, they'll shoot me straight. And when I was like, should I, should I do this? Should I date Natalie? I was like, I called him up. And they loved her. And like, they met Natalie, like the first week on I made. And they were obsessed with her.

They thought she was amazing. And they were like, no. They're like, it's not going to work, you know, because of the age difference. And I really took their advice to heart. And then I said, fuck it. I'm doing it anyway, you know? And like, so, I don't know. At some point, you know, at some point, you got to shoot your shot.

I feel like, I mean, I think that's healthy, though. Like, have somebody there to kind of go back and forth a little bit. You know, like, I think, I think it's good to have your friends and family around who maybe have seen you date to maybe point out some. of the themes that they notice repeat themselves. And if they notice a similar theme, that's helpful for sure.

But in terms of like who do you matchmaking, I think that's different than matchmaking. Sorry, I'm not to pivot, but the Marriott of First Side matchmaking got me kind of fucked up. Well, they're experts. I actually... Shit. Yeah. I disagree. I've learned a lot from them, but

some of the pairings, I wholeheartedly disagree with. Sure, but I think that's like a casting thing. Well, it falls on the matchmakers. Yeah. In the eyes of the public, you know? Yeah, yeah. But, like, they're working with what they got there.

Yeah. But I also, like, I agree with the matchmakers in the sense that I'm like, you can only go through so many variables, right? But I'm like, even what we're seeing in married at first sight right now where they're talking about, we don't know how each other argue. And the only couple that argued from the get-go now everyone's kind of like, shit, did they do things right? Because I don't know your style and things like that.

but I'm like, that's also something you can't really gauge. You know what I mean when you're matchmaking? It's like, okay, compatibility, financials, what you're interested in, hobbies, et cetera. But then I'm like, yeah, when it comes down to like real personal things, it's like, do you know someone's background? Did they lose a parent young? Did they, are they adopted?

Are they whatever? Like, there's only so many things. Sean and Nikki, like, is Sean just a freak? Like, he horny as fuck. Because also matchmaking. Matchmaking would always be an imperfect science because at the end of the end of the way, what makes a relationship work isn't like...

What's on paper? Yeah, it's not a list of qualities. It is a willingness to figure it out or not. It's either like, hey, we're going to figure this out. And you need two people to be like, let's figure it out. Yeah. Or you don't. And I think the expert, what they are is the relationship experts are actually psychologists

who understand the nuances and the best practices of relationships. So I guess that's kind of what I mean. Because like the math, it's like, I don't know, like... I don't know. I have learned a lot. from them though I will say like the whole like the the the butterflies fading and plateauing and then it's about okay at this point now you got to become curious I was like ooh I got to bank that one I well like now I went for we went for coffee you know which is like as a parent you're just

like oh wait we left the house you know it's like really important for me to get now it's like my favorite day just go get coffee which oh and then another thing if you're if you're you know what the sign of a single man is he's at a coffee shop fuck I gotta start going, I guess. No, seriously. If they're too fit. We went and got... The happy weight is real, bro.

Well, we went to the coffee shop, and there was a guy... I didn't even see his face, but we was wearing a t-shirt that Nali pointed out because it was like, blood, sweat, and tears. It was like, and it was like, okay. Single. All right, I got to find a new third space. But I remember in my single era, it was just like, I don't know, I'm going to get out the house, you know?

Like, I was just, I was just go sit at the coffee shop and hope I made a cute girl. It's been like five hours at the gym. Literally. Like, you know. Jim and coffee shop. If a guy is by himself at a coffee shop, he's honestly, he's hoping to meet a girl. I mean, most, I will say,

I was still going, I still need my alone time at the coffee shop. I don't know I like to create there, but. Nope. Okay. Most people I would agree, though. I'm getting a little defensive here. It wasn't a callout.

It was just more like, hey, in case you're curious, that's where you can find them. Oh, yeah, facts. Anyway, we were getting coffee. And I was like, I was like, what's one thing you miss the most about your

independent life. Like, not necessarily when you're a single, you know, but like just, you know, because now going to coffee is date night. It's a process. It's like, is everyone okay? Can we sneak out for 45 minutes? It's so funny. But just like, yeah, just, you know, trying to, like, and that was like, I was being

intentional with my question and trying to like connect with my wife and just, you know, just I was as curious what, if anything, she missed the most. But anyways, yeah. Being curious. And I got that note from these experts on. Look at that. So there's a lot to learn from reality. There is. I don't care what nobody say. There is a lot of good takeaways. Yeah, I agree. I like just to watch people behave in interesting settings that I would never put myself into, but then also be like, huh, that's the way that, like, somebody that thinks completely opposite of me, how they move. And I'm just like, why would they do that? It's like psychology 101. Why are people the way that they are and, like, what are they looking for? And most of it, it's all, they're just looking for a connection to be understood and just to feel wanted.

I'm realizing people do have these walls up, but they desperately want them to be knocked down. Yes. They want those layers. Something happened at Meredith First sight that reminded me of why I'm very reluctant to lean on my friends and family when it comes to like relationship advice. I think it was one of the women talking about their male partners and she was voicing concerns about something. And the family and friends go, well, he's never dated someone like you. What does that have to do with how this man moves and what he brings in the relationship? And yes, it's natural for want your friends and family to gas you up.

But that mentality of he's never dated someone like you. And therefore that's why this person is going to change is like the worst advice anyone could receive. Bad advice. Because like it gives you this, it's like it tells you that like the value is based on you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, no, this guy is bringing. Who was it?

Tori's friends and about Felipe but one of her friends was very like no no no I don't like this and all the other friends were like but it's gonna be okay and I agreed with the one friend who was skeptical it's like yeah but you want to believe when you hear that but like you know and I am you know because like you know it's so you know yes you're enough but you're not enough to change someone right no one is enough to I'm with you too because I'm like it's like I I as much as I love the bouncing off ideas of friends and everything it's just like unless you know this person and this person in the inner workings of then we just feed each other delusion. It's the he's just not that into you. It's like, oh my God,

he didn't call you because maybe his grandma died or like maybe he got an accident. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like, maybe he just doesn't like you. That I'm just like, we're sitting here. And we saw the actual evidence of that because all the friends are blowing her up with this like, well, you're different. And like, I don't like that he cheated and that he said that. But then we sit there at the dinner where he's just like, I don't think I can do this and commitment and all this stuff. And it's like, he's been saying it from the job. Yeah. And yet we're all just trying to like make it seem like, oh, he could change. He really, a part of this experiment, but in

actuality, he's literally been saying from the get-go, I'm scared of commitment, I don't know that I can do this. You can't hang up his jersey. I'm afraid of commitment is one of the most bullshit lines out there. You're not afraid of commitment. You're afraid of probably a lot of things. He said it clear as day. I like sleeping with random women. That was nuts.

I don't think that's afraid of commitment. He's not lonely enough. He committed to going on married at first sight. It's not a commitment issue. He's probably he committed to being a restaurant. He can commit to things. What he doesn't want to do is make sacrifices. You know, he doesn't want, like,

you know, I'm curious. Like, I don't know. I just don't, I don't understand that mentality is, like, yes, as a guy, guys like sex. And in your single era, good stuff, you know? If you're lucky enough to, if you participate in hookup culture,

it can be fun. But I, I've never related to the idea that, like, just sleeping with more people is somehow like this nest, like, participate in hookup culture and you have some success. After a while, it's just like, it's, it's just, it's just, the sex is sex.

And you're just like, and then you, in my experience, it's been like, then that has made me long for wanting more from that experience. We're like, I want to feel something afterwards. I want to care. I want to not feel awkward in like wondering if like, so do you have something going on after this or do I have something? What are you never? It's like, you get sick of that.

And I'm just shocked that someone like, Felipe, it's like, all your thinking about is like you want you're not even thinking about you're not thinking about who the women are you're just thinking about the numbers the numbers of how many people like i don't i do not appeal to that and i'm curious as a young man yourself what where do you land it's a very fleeting i yeah i feel like you kind of some people are in that phase that like hookup culture phase longer than others and um yeah i find it very fleeting i find it very like empty um and i tried to to distance myself from it as much as possible. But then you know,

then you deprive yourself of, like, getting to know people and stuff. But yeah, it's, you know, subjective from person to person how they want to treat their relationships. But I find myself, like, so not with that shit no more. Like, when I was, like, first got a little, like, attention on the internet and stuff

and I was, like, at Ohio State still, like, yeah, I was outside for sure. And, like, you know, I'm back outside, but it's not the same. It's not like the... Yeah, after a while. Ward and gets old. Where do they live again?

Where's the casting? Seattle. That's interesting because I, maybe it's like something from his family. I know that something I've noticed is a lot of guys and girls. There's this pressure to get married, 28, 29, 30. And it's like, okay, it's like time to settle down and have kids. And I get that if that's what you want at that point in your life, absolutely. And like, I want that.

But I think there's this pressure at a certain age where you're like, okay, now I'm supposed to change. But if you're not ready, like, don't. don't sign up for married at first sight. Don't convince someone to fall in love with you if you're not ready to take care of what that actually means. And I wonder if it's just like him,

because some of the things he's said has made me feel like, oh, I think you just think that you turn 28 and now you have to get married. But like, we don't live in that time frame anymore. If you want to keep fucking around, keep doing it. And it's literally fine.

Just don't invest, have somebody invest in you. There's also like low-key, like, pressure from like the, like, boys and like men is like, like, all your single, bro we gotta go to Vegas like shit like that like that kind of culture and I wonder if like what his what he comes from you know like if that's like he's like like programmed by that you know so to speak yeah more male dominated influence well he said self sabotages a lot but I'm just kind of like it's interesting that you he said oh I can skip the whole having to do the whole experience of

getting married and try to like maintain interest now that I have that label already now I can just solely focus on you, but yet it kind of feels like as soon as they started sleeping together, that's when he started losing interest and then can blatantly say how he feels versus like, here's a little warning sign. Like, you know, I really want to be in this with you, but I'm scared of commitment. And then as soon as like something maybe wasn't the way that he wanted it to be or expected it to be, then it was like, listen, I like sleeping with people and I don't know if I can stop doing that for you.

And that's just, you know what I mean? Just like a wild transition from the beginning. It also does come from the hospitality industry, right? They like to fuck. Yeah, they get active there. Yeah. It's a dark world. It's like a sex cult.

It's fucking grimy. I had to get out, guys. It was crazy. The conversation that Sean, have you ever had, have you ever asked a girlfriend if she'd be willing to like mute, like, what is. Mutual masturbation? Yes. Is what. Surety.

Sean is freaky. But just to say those words out loud, I would have been like, so do you. But he also framed it like, this is your wife duty. Yeah, he said it's part of showing up as a wife. of showing up. That's a crazy thing I said. And then he tried to walk it back and they're kind of, I'm like, bro, you're. I wanted to ask about that.

Now he got a book out. What? He got a book. He dropped a book. About what? What's the same? Dating. No.

I promise. I promise. I promise. He dropped a book around like his version of dating and what he's learned. I'm like, bro, this is ass back. I mean, I as short of saying that if you get married, it is, I guess, each partner has a responsibility to, to make your. other partner feel physically desired. There's no like specific, not like duty.

There's no like, it's not like blowjobs are part of the marriage contract. Like some people are into it. Some people aren't. Like everyone has preferences. Unless you get that in the pre-nup, you know, leave it out of here. Right? I don't like it. There's no,

there's no rub and tug that's part of your like, like your white, huh? That's why I blame the pairing. Like, bro, y'all set her up with this freak as oil. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But, but like, What woman would want to hear that? I mean, sure. Yeah.

And no matchmakers be like, so we talk to Sean. He loves a tug now and then. You down? He loves a mutual masturbation. That's not part of the matchmaking process. So you're right. It's the fact that they're not sleeping together already. So like that to me is where I'm like, where do you get the audacity to start asking for

specifics and something that I feel like is even more intimate than just penetration? That I'm just like you're sitting here being like, hey, can we do this? He's not willing to sleep with you and be naked with you. What makes you think that that's going to be the first step? I'm all for like exploring, though, like, all right. So, like, what other things in the bedroom are you, like, do you like, keep it open-ended? That's a conversation over dinner. That's a conversation in, like, a setting, not like you coming out in a towel after a shower

while I'm cleaning the kitchen. I was just thinking about my dick about washing it. I'm curious. How do you feel about touching it? He also can't, like, wrap his head around her not being attracted to him. Like, it doesn't make sense to him. Yeah. It's like, come on, bro.

I'm really curious. I know Nick tries to stay away from, like, labeling things. So let's not label if we don't have to. But I am curious, was what happened a form of gaslighting? Or was it that he genuinely did not believe that he said those words? Because I feel like on reality TV when he said, it's your wife. And she kind of interpreted that as wifely duty. Can't two things be true?

Because he might not have intentionally guessed. I don't think arguing semantics is gaslighting. I think that's just two people misunderstanding. But I feel like he was kind of clear. And then he was like, like, I feel like it was kind of, did you guys not? I would call that, yes, like, I don't feel like he meant to, or maybe. I would call that arguing and having in miscommunication. Like, you know, like couples say things and then you argue semantics and you're like, well, I didn't mean it like that.

And you know, it's like, yes. I mean, that's. But he was like verbatim like, I did not say that. Yeah. And he said that. How many times have you been in an argument with a partner? Probably gas litter. You're arguing for 20.

Yeah, that's the thing is I'm like, it happens. In 2026 versions of what gaslighting means, I guess, but that wasn't, I guess. But that wasn't the origins of like what it was meant to be. I guess we would have to know if he actually believed it or not to know if it was gaslighting. Yeah, if he was like intents, like I'm going to lie to her to. But like, to be clear, we have been in fights where you're like, I didn't fucking say that. And it's like you roll the fucking. Roll the tape.

Yeah, you did. It happens. Yeah. That's, that kind of feel like my question about that situation to. And like I can throw this to you, Jimmy, as well. I think where I'm like, do you think that there's also a part where, because he made a point to say like how you're painting me and how people are going to perceive this that I'm like, do you think is especially like filming like perfect match or something? Are there moments like are you hyper aware of the fact that you're on camera 24 seven or are there like moments where you kind of lose yourself or you're just like, well, I'm in this environment, but I'm not thinking about being filmed or how an audience is going to perceive me. And maybe there's other situations where you're in the middle of a conversation and you're like, fuck.

if this gets put out there, this is what this is going to look like, so I'm going to alter what I would actually say. It depends on the severity of the conversation. Like, if you're just, like, kicking out a cabana, like, just shooting the shit, I feel like you kind of lose yourself in that. But, like, when emotions and tensions are there, you're like, all right, let me not fuck up. Right. Yeah.

It's a little bit of both. You're like, you kind of forget, but then you become aware and you're like, Rachel, it's, yeah, it's. Because what I think I, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like what I noticed from that scene was that it kind of seemed like that was surveillance in the sense of, like, the cameras that are in. in the apartment where I'm like, I think it's easier to have just a genuine conversation and obviously having a physical body cameraman in front of you.

That I'm like, once that cameraman's in front of them doing the romantic whatever, then he's like, oh, I'm hyper aware that I'm on television. I never said that. But I'm like, that's what I'm thinking is that like maybe he doesn't, he didn't think that what he was saying was bad or it came off in a certain way because it was just a vulnerable moment. I think it's a little bit above. I think he seems to be someone who like thinks he's really smart.

He probably is really smart. He was in the shower, washing his body. And he was like, you know what? This will be a fun and interesting question to bring up on TV, you know? And then he said the thing. It didn't land. It didn't come out the way maybe he even meant it to come across. She took it a certain way.

She made the, I guess, the accusation. And then that. And then he was like, understandably so. Yeah. But his intention may not have been to suggest that like, you're my sexual servant in a marriage, but like, I guess it's just how it came across. And then in that moment, he probably became high. paperware that he was on TV.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, snap into it. It's just like, oh, fuck. Yeah. Yeah, it was probably that.

What about Caitlin and Devin? I feel so bad for Devin. I feel really bad for him too. And I do, part of me, it feels bad for Caitlin just because I'm just like, yeah,

it sucks constantly to feel like you're doing something or you feel like you're doing enough and it's never enough. Yeah. However, even just that barbecue with the friends on the rooftop and it was just like,

even when he took a picture of her and she's like, oh, this is a cute photo of us, of me. And I just like kept walking. It's like you don't want to take photos with him. You don't want to make him feel super special when you're talking to the friends.

It's like he's such a great nice guy, but it's like there's nothing about the we, the us, the being excitement about him. He seems like a type of guy. He's a big guy. He looks rough around the edges. He looks like a bro. Yeah.

That hair was a choice. That hair was a choice. And he seems a guy who's like probably made his mistakes in relationships. He's probably showed up as a bro. And yet it seems like she's leaning into this. caricature of how he comes across. And he genuinely seems like a guy who is like wanting to be a good partner. Or a better man or just like a, you know, and she seems to only be hyper focused on his

mistakes rather than like ways in which he's trying his best. And even you can try your best in a relationship and still get it wrong. And that's, you know, like that's where the grace comes in. The conversation he had with Courtney about her and Nick's relationship, I think that was overbearing. Obviously, he was drinking, but I also think that was projection of his own relationship. But, like, a big thing for me was them getting home that night where obviously he was intoxicated. And when he started standing in front of the door, I was like, I got nervous because I was like, oh, no. He's already big, like.

You can't do that to like a small woman. But I was like the way that he, like, backed down and just kept trying to be like, I understand you. I see. Like, for me, like, that's where I was like, even if he's three, three, three, he's. sheets to the wind, whatever. I was like, at least he's conscious enough to be like, okay, I need to step back. Okay, like, I just want you to know that like, I'm not trying to fight with you. I do want to have a conversation. She's not willing to have the conversation right now. Respect that, which he did. But I was just like, that could have been, that to me is like shows more of the

inner of who he is versus like, oh, the trying to mask things and be comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. So I'm over drinking and trying to give love advice in hopes that you'll respect me or that I'll get some sort of affection back. I was like, I think all of that was just very human of him. But I was like the fact that he didn't do anything that actually was aggressive or, you know, trying to force his point. I was like, I do feel bad for him because I think he just is a teddy bear that wants to be loved. I mean, like, Courtney, I mean, perfect for this show.

But, like, so, like, the last type of personality who should be signing up for marriage at first sight. Yeah. She's, like, she's just so high strung. And so, like, you have to have a level of, like, well, let's just see how. goes. Both like in marriage and in relationships, but also like especially when someone's going to be like, we're going to pick your wife for you. And she's just like very type A, like very unflexible with how she feel in any situation. And she is spiraling. Yeah. And I don't think compatibility, you don't tell somebody what you want them to be and then they perform. You know what

I mean? Where she's like, I want silly and goofy and all that stuff where it's like usually that's based off of the compatibility and chemistry between two people that I can pull that out of you and you pull that out of me. Yeah. So maybe even to Jimmy's point where I was like, maybe that might have been the couple that like I would have been like maybe not the strongest match just because it's like he's super aware of himself being on reality TV and self editing and trying to say the right thing and not. Yeah, but I don't know. But because like, like I think if anyone knows me, my baseline isn't silly goofy guy. You know, like my baseline is just like, I like to get deep and, you know, I'll joke with Nabby like, can you indulge me for 10 minutes?

I have no one else to share this with. I know you don't give a fuck. You know? And Nali's baseline is goofy and silly and fun and like doesn't, you know, but we have figured out how to balance each other out. I've become aware she's not always going to be interested in some of these things. And it's not like, oh, we're not compatible. And like, oh, my God, like whatever.

And like sometimes she does indulge me. And then, you know, like it's understanding who you're. partner is and then going out of your way to like meet in the middle they don't have to be a perfect you know like I'm this way and I found the perfect perfect person to deep like you don't find someone who's willing to deal with your shit without like you willing to like again be flexible meet in the middle it's it's a it's a balancing act right so like I think when it comes to compatibility but like it's to me it's always like it is so easy for us to make decisions like little decisions, what we eat for dinner, what we watch, like how we like to spend our free time. Despite our

age difference, when I met Nali, she was at a part of life having lived a very different like childhood than I lived and had very different, you know, like she grew up much faster than I grew up. And when we met, she was like, I want to be a mom. Like I'm, whether it's going to be you or not, like, I want to be a young, you know, and I was like, well, I've been dying to be a dad. So like, we were, we were lucky enough to like be in that same season of life where we were compatible with like what we wanted for ourselves and we were compatible with like the big picture we there's a lot of the ways and we're so different where it's just like she doesn't give a fuck you know and and vice versa but like we don't focus you know what I'm saying so like I don't necessarily think compatibility

is being is going through a checklist of all like individual preferences and everything you like can I ask a question about y'all because I've learned a lot through these shows that like a lot of what the experts and the people say is like the healthy foundation is that like you your friends first before you introduce like the romance and intimacy were y'all no y'all weren't no i mean like you were intimate right away yeah and then and then and then we had a situation ship and then again because like which i i think this is something that a lot of couples face with like hookup culture is like hookup culture has basically taken so much responsibility out of dater to like make a commitment like i've only known intimacy first honestly like you and alison were like well we're not you know like

you you didn't want to talk about boundaries and that gives and like that it gave me and Natalie a permission structure early in our relationship to like have an incredibly casual relationship and that casualness like created a lot of issues for us quite frankly you know like and and so no we that that wasn't our experience uh once we started dating quite frankly like yeah there was a lot of like learning how it was becoming friends now now like we're we're best friends. You know, she's like my person who like, she's my North Star for everything. When I have it, when I have a question, it was like, that's what I've, that's what I've known how going to her. But like at first, we had to learn how to do that. You know,

what's just something you, you know, it's just, I think you have to prioritize it. I don't think it has to start that way, but I do, I do think it has to be a part of your foundation. But I think the problem with dating now is that like, look up culture so prominent that there, there are so many loopholes when it comes to two people early dating of reasons why they don't have to commit, reasons why they don't have to prioritize, reasons why they don't have to put labels on it. And then that kind of gives you the freedom

to be like, well, I mean, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. And I know, like, dating, but like, so, like, I was talking to this, you know, like, and that can create a lot of issues for people who have a shot. That's why I find myself over explaining, like, almost giving too much context. Yeah, but that's because it's two people

being like, you know what, we don't need to talk about it. And we don't need to put a label on it. We don't need to, like, hold ourselves, you know, and, like, we fell into that trap growing our relationship for sure. I mean, I think friendship is like the most important component of a relationship. For longevity. Exactly. To your point though, where I'm like, I see what you're saying like kind of like with like the Nikki and Sean where it's like, oh, you have to be friends first and fall into it. And I'm like, I don't think that's realistic. But also kind of like,

okay, if we've been friends for two years and all of a sudden you have romantic feelings and start like that's going to, it's going to change the complete dynamic of our of our relationship. I think normal people do meet and it's that comfortability with each other, that wanting to learn each other, wanting to spend time together and learn about your background where you came from why you think the way you think. That's what builds the friendship. You know what I mean? So I do think it is the most important component, but I don't think that's something that you just instantly have when you meet someone. I think having a friendship and a relationship is the foundation for respect. Because it's easy to meet someone that you're sexually attracted to and hook up. And but like,

you know, obviously you want to respect people as humans and and things like that. But like in a relationship, like with Harry, right? Like what he doesn't do in his relationship is think about how his actions are going to affect something before he makes the action. He is willing to, at this point in his life, recognize the action and apologize for the action. But like, you have to have that respect. And with friends, if you have a deep friendship outside of a romantic relationship, you are aware of how your friends are sensitive, how things affect them. And when you learn about them and you learn about who they are as people, you are careful about how you move around your friend because like, you know, you respect them and you want to make sure you're not triggering them

or upsetting them or doing things. And like you are making a sacrifice as a friend to like move as a friendship, not as an individual. Yeah. And I think that's why having that friendship foundation in a relationship is so important because I think that builds the respect every relationship needs to like, again, be mindful of how your actions are going to affect your partner before you actually do the action, not just after you make the mistake and then apologize for it.

I hear that. Well, fun, fun conversation. Jimmy, always a pleasure to have you. Thanks for me, man. It's always fun. Next we have the queen, Shannon Bador, catching up with me, Sierra and Mary, and she is always a light talking about what we can expect of season 20 of housewives. Obviously, she reflects on her time as a housewife being a housewife for 12 years. Right now, the Brava universe is celebrating 20 amazing years of housewives, and we get the perspective of one of the queens herself, and she is up next.

Shannon, welcome back. Thank you for having me, McIll. Your breath of fresh air. I was telling you, you make me enjoy covering housewives and broader. Wow, that is quite a statement. Well, you're just, you're always positive energy, you know. At times. Yeah, but.

And when you're not, you're handling business. You're a human being, you know, so you're allowed to have your ups and downs, but you always come in bright and. Thank you. Fun. You make us laugh. Good. I said this earlier, but I just want to, like, express my condolences for Archie. Oh, thank you.

obviously was a difficult time for you. It was because it happened so quickly. But it was interesting. The show brought in a dog psychic. Really? Last season. And Archie said that he wanted a brother that looked just like him. And so I rescued a golden Troy for fight on USC Trojans.

And Archie just really didn't like Troy. I kept thinking, what? Why? You wanted this, Arch. Yeah, he just was annoyed all the time. Now I think it's because he knew he was sick. Because I wouldn't have run out and got another dog, but I'm grateful that I have Troy right now. Super sweet.

But maybe Archie lives in Troy. I say he's a butterfly now, and so he comes to visit all the time. Well, it's good to see you doing so well. Thank you. Also, just congratulations on just, you know, what Bravo is celebrating 20 years of housewives. I know. And you're obviously a big part of this moment. Well, I'm 12, 12.

That's a big deal. I am, it is exciting. But yeah, is it, is it, how are you feeling about it? Does it feel cool to be a part of this moment and have this, you know, franchise be celebrated the way it is? You know, you think about just the evolution of reality television in the last 20 years. And to be a part of that kind of pop culture is, has been incredible. And I started late, season nine.

So who, you know, I thought, oh, I'm coming in late. That's what I thought about podcast. Castcasting. Once you make your mark, you know, you're there. It's solidified. Well, like you said, you've been a housewife for 12 years. I'm just curious from your perspective, what do you think it means to be a housewife and how has that changed slash evolved over the 12 years in which you've been a housewife?

Well, I mean, I always say, and, you know, people, there's people out there that say I'm the most horrible person. I'm not authentic. Same. I think that you need to be authentic. When you're honest and you tell the truth, you know, there's not much. You got to keep track of, you know? So I think that that is one of the things that keeps people around a little bit longer.

But I think of where I was, you know, 12 years ago to now. And I've had a lot of ups and a lot of downs. Speaking of ups and downs, I'm curious as you reflect back on all 12 years. Are there any specific moments or most? that you both like regret happening that you wish, maybe wish you didn't do or say, and then subsequently are there moments where you're like, I did that shit, you know? Or like, or maybe it was a moment that felt negative at the time, but like everything that happened past that, you feel like grateful.

Right. I mean, I take accountability. Anything I do, I make mistakes daily. So I will take responsibility for that. But I will say that in the end, you know, my DUI, are you kidding me? I look at all these things that I've done that are humiliating, embarrassing, especially for my kids. And but then I think, where would I be today had I not gone through that experience? And I know that the DUI is horrible.

I thought that was it for me. And it really has changed me. I feel that today I'm in the best place that I could ever be. The girl that always had to be in a relationship isn't super excited about necessarily being in one. There are some options out there for me right now. I love her so much. I just, I just, I don't know that I'm going to go there.

There's a roster, but you don't need to. Well, I'd like to, I like to say a bench. Okay. Okay. So you really, when that DUI happened, you thought that was it? Oh, no, I mean. When you say that, do you think, is it both like professionally and just like personally, like all of the above, so to speak?

All of it. All of it. You know, I, I'm a pretty strict mother. and for my, something like that to happen when you're almost 60. Yeah. For your kids, it's like I've lost respect of everybody. Well, I'm, you know, as you know, I'm a relatively new dad, young father of three girls. I'm curious, you know, what can I learn from you in terms of, I no doubt will, we'll make mistakes.

And as, you know, I'm a, as of this moment, a public figure. And my children will become aware of things about me that I don't choose to share and things like that they're outside of my control. What have you learned about parenting and when that happens to me? What advice do you have for me to like what conversation? How did you address it with your daughter so that it didn't become something that created more distance between you and your family? And yet sounds like it maybe ultimately brought you guys closer together. Absolutely. I think that when, especially when you make mistakes, it humanizes you and your kids see that you're, you aren't just a public figure.

You're a normal person that can flub up all the time. I will tell you, though, as a parent, a couple of things I did from as soon as they could understand my words, what happens if you do drugs? You die. It may be the first time or the hundredth time, but you will die. Then I would put the gas on. You're with a boy and he's taking you get for ice cream and he's driving this fast. What do?

And they'd go, pull over. And yes, that's what you do. I just give them little tests from when they're little. Okay. So, you know, so they're ready to go. Then you're not like the mom hounding or the parent hounding on them when they get older. What's the best lesson or a bit of advice you've received from your children? I was, it was my second season.

I was back. Dave and I were still not getting along. We're trying to get our marriage back together after I found out about an affair. We're in Napa Valley. Megan King Edmund starts coming after me. And I'm like, this is, I'm out. like this is just too much for me. And I said, I need an Uber home.

I'm not filming anymore. And he started to cry. And Sophie called me and she goes, mom, there's no crying on the court. And I went, okay. She was like 13? And so I, because all my kids played basketball. And David would always say, there's no crying on the court. So I thought, you know what?

Yeah. Get your ass back in there, Shannon. And I did. Get off the bench. And see who's still on the show and who's not? I'm just, I've had Megan out a lovely person, you know, I, you know, but you did win. You won. Yeah, I guess.

Yeah. Getting into current events on this season, Tamara in the most recent episode, said she's kind of cautiously optimistic about rebuilding a relationship with you. How do you feel about that? Do you believe... Tamarin, how is that relationship going? You know, I have quite a... Sorry, Tamara.

Do you believe Tamara? I have quite a history with Tamara. And sometimes it's frustrating because last year I said, I'm willing to move forward. We can have fun together, but I just need to leave it there. I need to have a healthy boundary. And it just seems like no one respects the boundary

because I feel that I'm continually pushed. You will see that Tamara and I have a lot of fun together. It's just, sometimes I don't know what Tamara I'm going to get. Like, apparently she's made a few comments about me on social media recently. Like what? Like what? Oh, that maybe I'm wishy-washy with her because I'm concerned about social media comments. Then she said that about Heather, too?

I don't even read the comments. Probably. She said that Heather was putting her in a box, which came from Jen, I think, but then also the TikTok of like Heather doesn't post Tamara on her TikTok. Oh. Yeah, so. That keeps me up at night. But I'm not in the TikTok. So TikTok following's and unfollowings.

I will just to just to play devil's advocate. You know, it's funny when it comes to you and Tamara, I'm always like I'm glad there's, it seems to be some reconciliation because outside of this TV show, you're two of my favorite housewives. Just because of like, you just both seem to be in person. pretty chill, pretty normal, pretty fun. And then when I see you two go at it, it's like, I don't want to pick a side, you know? I do.

Okay. Well, some people. I mean, if I have to, Shannon. No, I get it. And you know what? I'm exhausted with the fighting. I don't want to fight. So.

That I believe about you. You seem to be more focused on resolution. And I can't necessarily see the same about Tamara. It's like, do we need to be nasty? Do we need to go for that jugular? But you know what? Like I say, you will see Tamara and I. There is one time that we had together this season

that I will flip and laugh about for a long time. And I think people will enjoy seeing that. That's what I love about this season for me, Nick. You know I've been involved in some drama. So it was so nice this year to, I have a unique relationship with each cast member in a silly way. And I was able to be silly with each and every one

of them and laugh a lot. You know, who would have thought? But yeah, it was very fun for me this year. Was the boundary that you felt people weren't respecting when it came to Tamara? Was it more so that you were like, I can be cordial with you, but I don't need to be best friends with you. We can do things. We can laugh.

But I don't need to, we don't need to check in five times a day. I'm not going to go back there because I've done that before. And so just respect that. And, you know. Yeah. In that vein, since you have silly kind of really. relationships with all the cast, would there potentially ever be a Trace Amiga's return? Reunion.

I don't. I mean, never say never because I know it'll bite me in the ass. You guys are comedic geniuses. I want to as dos amigas he dug. Dos amigas he dug. Yeah. Vicki and I, we have the dos amygias he dug. There you go.

That's where it is right now. So you and Vicky are still closer than Vicki and Tamer. Just hung up with her. Okay. Because watching it, it almost seems like Vicky is like they're leaning, you know, towards one of the T's. Because in to two T, you know. That's not true. Fake news.

I don't know. You know, I don't, once again, I don't mind if Vicki's friends with whoever. Everyone could be friends with whoever. I don't get jealous about any of that kind of stuff. Be who's ever friend you want to be. Okay. Yeah. And, you know, again, I'm happy where Tamara and I are. We'll see how it goes. I thought we were good last year. And then we went into a reunion and she's like, shut up. She, that's a really good Tamar impression.

Maybe I've said it a few times. Well, in that, in that vein, I guess, like with ultimate, obviously there was like stuff with Ultimate Girls trip. I don't know how much of that you can get into of like kind of, like, kind of. what went down. Well, no, there was an argument. The camera. Yeah. And, and we were starting our show two weeks later. So we were, you know, instructed, your background, don't be talking about, you know, issues that will be on our show on Ultimate Girlship. And you're in the

background. So if you watch this weekend, you'll see I wore a very fun 80s rocker costume. And I went in going, I'm just going to be silly and have fun, but, you know, Tamara kind of, Yeah, it went awry. And then I got like, oh, we both were not allowed to go to the finale. And for me, it's not about being on camera. For me, I was really excited to be included in this iconic group of women. And if you're going to go to the Berkshires for the weekend, for instance, it's that bonding time when you as a group are together for a couple of days.

And I was really, really upset that I missed out on that. So you got, like, booted? Yeah, I did. Because of, like, the fight? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know. It's giving like went to the principal's office. You cannot walk graduation, but you'll get your diploma.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I just, I think that. Was it Tamara's fault? Well, I mean, she did make some statement. When she admits on the show, she said, she's drunk.

She will never get a man and she doesn't have any money. So at that, I was, I knew she was poking and I was calm. And then I wasn't. You know, you can only get, poked so much. Yeah. Do you find that Tamara knows how to poke you

in a way that like nobody else does? Well, she's a good poker. Yeah. Professional poker. I think she is. Yeah. But no, it doesn't

I mean, I think if you go back to that Alexis season, like I was, she went out to me every time and it was nope. That was an insane season. Yeah. Do you think Jen is inserting

yourself in drama related to Heather? I mean, it kind of, I don't think so, but it looks like it. I love Jen. She and I have this. I can just look at her and start laughing. She's very, very funny. But, yeah, it, you know. From a viewer's perspective, it kind of, you know, like sometimes you just feel as when you're watching that it's like there's one housewife that it's their season and they're going to get it.

And it just kind of feels like this season, there's a lot of talk about Heather. but I feel like Heather's pretty consistent personality-wise and how she shows up. So why do you think all of a sudden there's drama around Heather? By the way, I'm not saying that our show is not authentic because Jen Padranti is very authentic. But when you go and film, they'll say, your party's coming up next week, remind everybody,

and talk about how that lunch went with Tamara. And so it's not always that maybe she's bringing up Tamara. it's that don't forget to talk about this and then it's shown you know yeah but it's still I imagine the only there's only a suggestion to talk about it but what you guys talk about many times many times fan and stores Vodora goes nope not going to talk about it okay I don't know you had the option well I hope you do she said I exercise it mm-hmm what's going on with Emily she seems to be yeah picking fights with everyone including her best friends I don't know.

I don't. You're not seeing what we're seeing. No. You have the Debbie Downer with Vicky. We have Heather talking too much or the fight over. She was talking a lot that night. She says I back Emily. Yeah, I back that one up.

Because I was thinking it when she said it. With Emily, with Gina, it was kind of throwing her under the bus to Carmela. The Gina thing is really what confused me. You mean at the dinner? I'm telling Carmel. like Emily Emily telling Carmelah that Gina had an issue with the gift

And like where Gina even her interview was like This is supposed to be a safe space I don't understand why Right Well it was the purse was a big Was a big deal By the way my birthday was next It's coming

What kind of purse we ask? What do you do? I got a bag myself And were you upset by it or were you Oh no No I wasn't I wasn't upset Did you get the extra gift That came inside the bag as well?

No No, no vibrator for me. Okay. But I will tell you, and it'll come out, but I guess at the reunion, but I had a leak in my place, and I had to move out for a month. And I have Troy with me, I'm like, oh, my God, where am I going to go? I'm looking at hotels because you know, Airbnb during the summer and where I live. And, you know, she's got the two homes.

And she said, we're not going to be in the Orange County home this month. Carmilla. Yeah, take it. So I literally moved my stuff. lived at her house for a month. Oh, nice. Honestly, so she's one of the most generous people. That's what I was just going to ask you.

Very, very kind. Yeah, because there's a lot of conversation and discourse around how she talks about her money or how she gifts and things like that. Well, that's why, yeah, can she, can she just? That's what I, that's, I'm glad you say that. Because it seems to be like the, the theme or the, I guess, the insinuation is that it's, inauthent. Or performative or disingenuous.

Do you think she's trying to buy your friendship? No. Yeah. I think when we get a new housewife, obviously, we're hearing the discourse with the other housewives of questioning. So we're like, oh, is that performative? Is that inauthentic? Is she trying to like ease her way into the group easier by handing out your bags?

Because it doesn't hurt. It is a lot. I mean, it's very extravagant. But it came from, I think, a good place. And, you know, let's be honest. And so far, she's said some, she's been pretty iconic as a new cast member. And like you see in the scenes when she says about the expiration date. Like everyone just, their mouths pop wide open.

It's like, whoa. Yeah. So she has no fear. Is she been one of your favorite, you know, because obviously you've been in her for 12 years. You've seen a handful of housewives come and go. Would you say Carmelo's one of your favorite new additions? Absolutely. I will say Jen Padranti.

and Carmelah. We've had a lot of kind of, I don't mean it in a bad way, but one hit one year wonders, you know, it's one year and then they're gone. And why do you think the one hit wonders didn't work out?

Like what would you say the, what mistakes do you think they made strictly from like how to be a housewife? It is a job. Where did it go wrong for them? Well, I think a lot of people, because the show has been on the air for so long, they come in with an agenda.

And I, like, I know when I started, I didn't think about what I was going to do. I remember Megan King Edmonds called me in her second season. She said, I'm going to try and be pregnant this season. What are you going to do? I go, I'm going to be Shannon. People don't like it. Then I'll walk up into the success.

Like, I don't know. He's going to do whatever. You know, it'll come. He said, I'll show up. I'm curious. Like, Andy Cohen, and I think he was doing some press for Ultimate Girl's Trip. this whole moment and he talked about, I guess, like casting for housewives. And I think he said something like, it's not like a draft. You either want to do it and you think it makes your life

better or you don't, which, you know, from a business standpoint, I can appreciate. Because I'm sure Andy's always constantly sick of all these people he's made famous, only for them to critique and point things out that they don't like. How has being a housewife made your life better? But you know what? I think that it really allowed me to gain independence because, you know, I was a mom. I wasn't working anymore. I don't know. And I was working hard at home. But it just kind of gave me a voice. I'm so grateful for the platform. And it's something that was never in my wheelhouse. Like I maybe had aspirations to be behind the camera, certain things, but never in front. It just was a fluke of how it all came about. So, you know, that was one of the things in my final interview, Doug Ross, who started

Evolution, one of the four founders of reality TV. He said, you know why you're here, right? And I go, no. And he said, because you don't, you don't need this. You, like, I didn't care either way, if I got it or not. So, and I think that some of these women really, you know, yeah, like, had I, had I not got the offer that year, I never would have tried out of it. yet. No, it was one time or nothing. Are there, are there housewives who have had like many, many auditions? Yes. Or they're like, I hope this is like, look, this is it. Yeah, they've a couple times, I guess. I don't know who and I'm not going to name. Okay. No, I'm not going to get in trouble today.

How has Vicky's return been both? Like, how's Vicky doing? She, I think she's great. I mean, she and I have a banter. I am so excited. We go to to Las Vegas in a couple weeks and all that I'm excited. The stuff that she and I do together. And by the way, in the first episode, yeah, we fell on the beach because she put all her weight on me. It's not that I, you know, I am clumsy and so is she. But, you know, we're not like, oh, you know, the cameras are filming.

Let's roll around in the sand. No, that was not the intent. No, that never, that's the wonderful thing about the two of you on camera is it's always just seems genuinely like you're dynamic and you just enjoy each other that way. Yeah. So yeah, I really enjoy having her back. I really appreciated Vicki's commentary on her divorce. I've never heard too many people. I'm sure there are people out there who have regret their divorce or wish maybe it didn't go the way it did. I've heard very few people say, I wish I didn't do that and I have regrets for the role I played. And I thought that's just really iconic of Vicky

to be able to speak on that. Very much. So, I mean, I think all of us that get divorced regret it, you know, to put our kids through it and mine are still kind of going through it a little. But not to say that I would want to stay married to David, no. But I do regret that we had to go through all that. It's not pleasant.

Do you think Vicky would ever like consider like a reunion with? Don? Yeah. I've never met him. When she speaks on him, she, like, you can feel the love. No, they'll never get back together. No, I don't think so. Okay.

Well, she's with Michael now. I know. Really nice guy. They seem very sweet. Yeah, they're very happy. We like Michael for Vicki? Yes. Okay.

I've known him for a while now, so I think they're great together. Does Vicki know who I am yet? Was that hilarious? Oh, my God. She's like, who is this guy? Nick Viles? The Bibles. That's still one of my favorite days ever working.

No, I know. It's so funny. Yeah. She's a character. Would you? And another person who famously, and doesn't need this, you know? Yeah. She's independently successful.

Right. Would you guys ever do like a spinoff series, just like a buddy? Kind of like, like what, Luanne and Sonia did Crappy Lake? Like, Vicki and Shannon? Well, I would love to. Give me a call. Vicki and Shannon take Las Vegas. Like a travel show.

We do in a couple weeks. It's very funny. You guys should, it should be a show where you go from just various hotel chains. That would be great. And give us your reviews. Perfect. Beautiful. Get this brand deals locked in as well.

You may mean more like motel chains? Ooh. That could be funny. Maybe. The simple life. With less. Simple life. Yeah. Going to Vicky and Carmela.

Thickey has a lot of strong opinions on Carmela. We obviously know Vicki's not the biggest fan of newbies coming in just besides you. And Heather. And Heather. And herself. Yeah. But you took an instant liking to Carmela. So how is that dynamic during filming?

I'm assuming at some point we're all going to come together. But how was that initially? Well, I feel bad for Carmela because it's hard enough to walk into a group not knowing anybody. But, you know, are you going to see it improve anytime soon? I don't really know about that. Oh. Yeah. And is that just because.

Vicky is Vicky. Yeah. A little stubborn, maybe. Vicky's, I think, sat in her ways. But it also kind of seems like Carmela, too, is very who she is up front. No, she is. Yeah. She's very, like, I watch the scenes with her kids, like in the kitchen.

And they're sparring with their mom. It reminds me of my kids because my kids give me shit every single time. Every single time we have a conversation. They know how to do it. better or they're going to tease me for how I'm doing it wrong. So I think her kids are great too. Yeah. I just think she's a great ad. Would either, would any of your kids want to, you know, because now you're seeing like next gen. And you're seeing some Bravo celebrity children become celebrities themselves. How would you feel about your children becoming Bravo celebrities?

You know, I think that if they wanted to, that would be great. I have two in New York City and one in Paris. So, you know, they're, they're old enough to make their own choices. It's interesting, though, because I just was thinking about this. When my very first interview I ever did was live on the Today Show with Kathy Lee Gifford asked me, have young daughters, how could you join a reality show and put them through that? And this is live and I'm like, oh my God. And I said, Kathy Lee. I know. I was asking hardball questions. You're coming at me. And I said, you know what, in life you have to have a thick skin. If I can teach my daughters to get a thicker skin earlier than most, then I'm doing them a service.

What did Kathy Lee say about that? I don't think she had much to say. I don't remember. Shannon Stormsford. One, Kathy Lee Gifford. My kids, like, if I do get bummed about something, especially Sophie, go, Mom, who cares? Give them their minute. You know, stuff rolls off of them.

So, yeah. Do your daughters have any opinions on rekindling your friendship with Tamara? Absolutely. Can you share any of them? No, they do. You know, they're just, they're cautious. Yeah. You know, because they don't want to see me get hurt.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You do seem to be, and this is a compliment, the more vulnerable of the two in that relationship. But, well, the thing is, is that, I mean, and sometimes I get embarrassed about that. I'm not some weakling. I'm a survivor.

but I do wear my heart on my sleeve and so I am going to get emotional and I'm no weakling like that's very clear I think just because someone has like as emotional means they're weak A lot of people will make certain comments and I think in an effort to

maybe engage in a social media war with me and I'm not putting the sword down I'm just not going to join the war I'm not going to do that with people I do something I can't stop thinking about. I would love to know your take on it. Is Carmela offering Jen Padranti $20,000 to help her with her tile? Okay, so I didn't hear about the $20,000 part.

I just thought that Carmela was saying to Jen, hey, you want to check out what I do. Maybe you might want to consider doing this on the side. Because when you're, you know, I built the big house we lived in in the first, my first season. and it's a lot of work, the constant checking in with the contractors, etc. So I thought that that's what it was about. But I get it when you add the 20,000, it makes it look a little weird. Well, especially since she has no experience and it would be her first time. Yeah, which I think I felt it was more of you want to take a ride with me one day and see what I do.

Yeah. See if you might want to get into that. So like she offered her $20,000 to pick up tile? No, she's having the conversation, I think, with Emily or something. thing, but saying that she wanted to bring Jen to kind of empower her and be like, hey, there's ways to make money. Yeah, because Jen's always talked about her lack of financial independence. Right.

So I just thought it was an olive branch. I've said, hey, check this out. Maybe it could be something you'd be interested in it. But overall, I think the message is you've gotten to know Carmelo. Yeah, she's kind. And you feel that she is a genuine person with genuine intentions. I do. Well, it seems like obviously like the fans of Bravo are always like they always receive positive

of actions is almost like what's the angle. Yeah, I don't, I don't think Carmelah has an angle. Yeah. And she hasn't watched much of the show in the past. I know a lot of girls say, I'd never watch and I'm thinking, right. But I really don't think she has watched. So, um. And she, like, how rich is she?

Yeah, because the $39,000 a month for rent, really, we was just like. Well, she didn't end up moving there. Oh. She moved, got another place. The one that I stayed, it was quite, quite nice and brand new. And it wasn't. quite that expensive, but it still was. It's up there. But you know what? She,

I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but she married an NFL quarterback. Oh, period. Who was playing at the time. Jeff Garcia. Yeah. Which is him? Yeah. Yeah. He was awesome. A huge. 49ers, England Browns. And so I think

that in addition to that, that she was kind of handling the money. So she's done quite well investing and doing her own, if you want to call it, House Flipper slash developer career. She's very well in that. Okay. She's still married to him, right? Is that what I'm learning? She is, you know, on paper. On paper. Oh, so when we're talking about the one that she is no longer together,

that's Jeff Garcia. Yes. No, I knew. I heard about Jeff Garcia. I just, I wondered if he was like, I don't know. I guess I just. Yeah. I had to go back and like really lock in because I was like she's still married to him, but they've been separated. Well, because like usually when we're, we talk about a person and it is like the ex-husband with. the name, you know, Jeff Garcia's is, certainly was like a high, high profile. Carmelah's ex, superstar. But, so they have four kids that are like 15, 16, 17, 17, and 18. So I think that it was always, we're going to let's just wait until all the kids, you know,

grow up and go on their way. And then we'll revisit it. Can we have some fun and talk about your dating life a little bit more, possibly? Well, that does not as much. But yeah, let's talk. You got your bench. Well, I know, but I haven't. Are we confident in the bench here?

Before you go on a date, do you run these potential suitors by your daughters? Oh, no. No. No. Usually the meeting spot will be a local Corona del Mar establishment, and it might end with a little kiss at the end. That's my, well, hello.

How are you? But maybe I should. stay back from that. No, I don't know. I call myself the kissing bandit. But then it's neck up only. Like, we don't go any further. What's wrong with a kiss? I know. It's quite nice. How do you feel about your stuff? I'm just kidding. Sorry. What is my stuff? It was a callback. No, it was a callback for Summer House. They said something about like kissing on the ear or something. He's like, it's only neck up. Oh, wait, someone stole my neck up. Somebody did. Yeah. Ear stuff's Wilson. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm sure there are other words that most people could say.

I feel like you always have like some sort of side project or like something up your sleeve that you're working on when you're not filming. Okay. Do you have anything that you're working on right now? I do, but I don't think I can talk about it. Oh, no. You know, I always, I shut my supplement company down last year because I wanted to have something outside of the show that I could fall back on. And I funded it completely by myself. So it's a huge bummer.

Okay. Sorry. That it didn't work out. It wasn't properly run. and I didn't have the full-time availability to do it myself. So I have a couple other ideas. So we'll see. Oh, I can't wait.

When you're not being a housewife or a mom, what does Shannon like to do for fun? Well, I like to go out to dinner and take a breath. Yeah. That's what I like. It's like, you know what? I'm going to go out to dinner and just take a breath. Because there's always stuff going on.

It's busy, which I'm incredibly grateful for. I think it keeps me young. When I got the show, I was sick all the time. I used to watch the show when I wasn't feeling well. I had pneumonia like 17 times in year. And I would watch going, how do they do it? How do they go to that party and then meet up for coffee the next morning? I'd be exhausted.

Well, I'm doing it. Look at you. And knock on wood, no pneumonia sense. But bam. Exactly. What's your go-to meal at dinner? Gosh. I'll say a steak.

Okay. I was raised on beef. Filet. What's your temp? Well, I know. It's medium well. I know it's supposed to be bloody. A fillet?

Medium well? Yeah. I can't look at the blood. Is it a little pink? Yeah. And then I also like my baby back ribs that I make. That I take the whole day to me. How do you make them?

I soak them in apple cider. I keep refilling the pans so that takes all the fat off and then I make a glaze myself I reduce it down and it tastes a little bit like Christmas. A little bit of apple cinnamon. What are the chances?

Me, you, and Tamara could have like lunch someday. Okay, Vicky. Can Vicky come to? That is the nicest thing you could ever say to them. Well, I'm fine with her. I'm fine. we did, it was interesting, because this is how things happened with me,

but we had our premier party and the night before, we didn't know when each of us was doing Watch What Happens Life. And it was two spots and we were going to fill them. So it was a call, hey, did you hear about Watch What Happens Life? We had just seen the first episode. All of a sudden it turns into an hour and 52 minute conversation. And there was a lot of parts of that where it's like, oh, this is how we used to talk all the time.

So it was very nice. So I'm doing my press line at the premiere party going, well, we're just going to keep a distance from each other. You know, I need to keep my boundary. And then we do a live panel. And then one interview says five minutes later, talk, talk, dot, dot. And Tamara at the panel, it goes, we were on the phone for two hours last night.

And I go, an hour and 52 minutes. That was last time. But it's like, you know, see, I go, I'm creeping a boundary. What are you guys talking about for an hour and 52 minutes? You know, we criticize every single part of the show and all that kind of, you know, it's like, oh, can you believe when I said that or, oh, my hair, you know, that kind of stuff. Do you think that there's just like the, you and Tamara do have a bond after like being on the show for so long that you won't be able to. You know, until your honor show, I don't even think our children, even though they're a part of it or the spouses, can really understand what you go through. Because it's not roses the entire time.

You go through seasons where people can't stand you. And it's almost a sorority. That's why BravoCon is so great. You meet Bravo Lebrity and you have an instant understanding of each other and a connection. So going back to 20 years of Housewives, you obviously do get to mix in BravoCon everything. Who, not from your franchise, are you closest with or like that you admire how they've paved their way as a Housewife? Oh, I admire many. Yeah.

But I love Luanne because we did the Love Hotel together. Right. I really enjoy her. I think Kyle Richards is just the kindest person. And Sonia Morgan is a kick in the pants. I would love to see a night out with you and Sonia Morgan. Oh, we've had some. Yeah, we have in the past.

Yeah, she's, I love her. She's so great. She is there. There are so many people. Even, I mean, the people who I'd really love to hang with are those below deck crew. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's my favorite. show. Are we going to get a crossover maybe?

Well, we already had one. Somebody, some city with the snowflake took it. Oh, no, they're doing, um, they can only do one. Summer House is doing one. They just released that Summer House is doing a crossover too, so it's not a... Wait, are you kidding? I'm not kidding at all. I feel like this is, they were, it was such a hit with the snowflakes. Okay. With the snowflakes. That they are doing it.

Can I get some orange in there. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that people remember this about me, but it's a joke within our crew and cows. that I grew up on boats. I grew up on boats. Oh, you did? Yeah. Nice. So it makes sense.

Okay. You don't get seasick. I do. I do, actually. Because I grew up. It was actually, we had a whale watching. Was that the last episode? And I go, do any of you get seasick?

And they go, you grow up on boats. I go big boats. I grew up on big boats. Flex. Well, even the big boats, you can get seasick. A little bit. Yeah, you can. Do you like cruises?

I've never been on one. I was supposed to do that cruise with Dolores and Teresa and it got canceled. I was excited to do my first cruise. I'm not much of a cruise guy. I don't know that I would be. Well, then you see all those documentaries that come out. It's trapped in hell. Yeah.

I mean, I personally love it, but I haven't had a horror experience at all. My horror experience is the buffet line. They have restaurants. Sit down. There's too many rules on a cruise. And also, how many people fall over? Literally, you have to sit next to the same people. Oh, you do?

You have like a sign seating? I've only been on a carnival cruise. Then there's like themes each night. I was like 17. But how many people fall over? That's my fear. I told the girls, you're not going on a cruise because they probably freaking fall. Well, it's not as many as I think you would be thinking.

That's, yeah, I feel like the falling. One too many. But yeah, no, I mean, I do think it's a fun time. I think if Bravo did a cruise, because then they would for sure probably reserve. certain I would like to do that. Right, like a Bravo Con Cruise or something because then they would definitely reserve

like levels just for talent so they probably have securities so people can't. So much fun. Yeah, but then you guys would just be like okay, guess we're gonna go hang out on the beach in the Bahamas. They should do like Bravo's love boat.

That would be great. I mean, I'm also available for that phone call. And my kids do these things like they go to Stella was in Tomorrow Do you know what that is? It's like some festival in Belgium, like the biggest one in the world or something.

Sophie was just at Lollapalooza, which I'm seeing the drones. I'm like, you're a flippin Sargene. Where's the exit? You know, it's just, it's a different world. You know what I shouldn't say it? You know what Sophie said to me? She goes, mom, if something happens to me, just make me the face of it. I mean, that's an optimistic way to look at things, you know?

She wants to be a cautionary tale. I just, I mean, honestly, but when you have kids, it all changes. I kind of get it. When you have kids, it's like, no, you don't. You're just like, you're not going. You care. Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon, I know you have to get going, but anything else you want to leave us with? I mean, I want to ask you, Nickville, how do you feel about season 20? Because Andy and I were talking last week, and he was saying that to him, it is very reminiscent of the show when I started years ago. go, but more fun, more getting into people's lives. Do you agree? Yes, I think OC is currently my favorite franchise. Really? Yeah, because I think it's very difficult to be a legacy franchise, which you ladies are, you've been around for a long time, and still continue to be interesting. Thank you. And there are just too many franchises in the Bravo space that rely too heavily on, like, dark drama. Right. Yeah, we're out of the darkness. And you certainly, yeah, you guys have

certainly had yours, but like, but the flip side of that coin is sometimes it's not interesting when you don't have that toxicity. And I really, like, it's, it's fun to watch you women have fun. And I, I really, I really enjoy it. And it's, it's, yeah, I really, I just really enjoy your, you guys make me laugh. It feels, again, mostly authentic. It's also fun to watch you guys work. like in the sense of like how you how you guys deal with conflict now where obviously you have pain points in seasons where it's like everything kind of seems dragged out and we're like all right 10 episodes in you guys are still fighting about this where it's like it's nice watching you guys come together to where you guys can sit down have dinner have the conversation say what needs to be said but then it's like the next day we're all together and we can do the activities and we can have fun and put everything on a back burner where some of these series it's kind of hard because you're just like you guys are belaboring it when you guys could be having to be having having a good time and we want to see both sides of the coin. And I think there's a lot of franchises out there who have seen the success of other franchises. And there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of, you know, I feel like I need to do this.

And I feel like I need to do that. And I feel like there's less of that with Orange County. Something that I kind of noticed, I feel as though our cast, they really let you in to their lives. Yeah. Whereas some of the other shows that I've seen, it's just, it's more of a distance. Like we really let you in. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like you guys like, oh my God, the Amsterdam trip last season. Yeah. Like watching you guys do like drugs in Amsterdam is like the funniest thing in the entire world. And then. Mushrooms, like, check off the lid. Yeah, it's like a amazing. Like that's amazing TV. Not an Amsterdam.

Not an Amsterdam. And then it's like you get to have just like conflict resolution. It's like the ability. Like it does. It gives me. I'm like, man, I want to be able to hang out with my girls. like this and the way like in my life and it's beautiful. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other questions for me? No, I think that's, I think I'm good. Okay. Chanan, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me. You brighten my day. You're very glad.

Great to see you doing so well. Congratulations on 12 years. Thank you and congratulations to. Thank you. But thank you for being one of the most iconic housewives. And you have no plans in going anywhere, right? No. Okay.

No. Okay. I said, Wait, what? You know something, I don't know. Well, you know, like sometimes, you know, they'll be like, you know, I don't know. You know, like, it's like there's... Oh, I've never...

No, I've got one of those. No. No. Yeah, I don't play those games. Okay. So I would love you. You clocked in. Shannon Bador, everybody.

Thank you guys for listening. Thank you to our guest, Shannon Bador and Jimmy. Always a pleasure to have you. Thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to sign up for Vow Files Plus. It is free, ad free and available in a bunch of great content as well. just go to vaafalccom to sign up we'll see you tomorrow nope we'll see you on wednesday we'll see you on thursday till next time till next time bye bye