The Viall Files - E1175 - Justice For Jessi Draper, Witney Carson and Ben Mandelker Return, RHOC, RHUGT + Suburban Wives

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Witney Carson joins us to talk baby number three, returning to Dancing with the Stars pregnant, partnering with Guillermo, and judging The Next Pro. Then, Ben Mandelker from Watch What Crappens stops by to break down everything Bravo, including The Valley, Jax and Lori, RHUGT, Lisa Barlow, Vicki Gunvalson, and RHOC. Plus, preschool tours, Double Lives of Suburban Wives, and Jessi Draper discourse.    "Creating life and growing a baby is the biggest honor ever. I'm not going to be ashamed of it." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/ Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix Sleep: Go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for their Labor Day Sale: Best of Web, 27% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners of The Viall Files. Task Rabbit: When life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get fifteen dollars off your first task at https://taskrabbit.com or on the Taskrabbit app using promo code VIALL. Upwork: Visit https://upwork.com right now and post your job for free. The Absorption Company: Go to https://absorbmore.com and enter VIALL at check out for up to 35% off your first order. ASPCA: To explore coverage, visit https://aspcapetinsurance.com/viall  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 35:15 - Witney Joins 55:14 - Ben Joins 1:33:16 - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall  @nataliejoy @witneycarson @benmandelker @ciaracrobinson @susiecevans @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @baybaeee   

Today, welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my gorgeous, sexy, beautiful wife. Natalie Joy, she is back day two. Do we need to bring back the adjectives? Why not? We love the adjectives. And they are electric. Can we just be gorgeous and sexy for a while?

Yeah. Honestly, honestly, I want to just be gorgeous and sexy. Haven't been feeling that for a long time. Please. Absolutely. Period. We got a jam-packed household. We got Sierra, Susie, Mary, Justin, I think somewhere is in the room.

Bailey is with us as well. We got a jam-packed episode, Ben Mandelker from Watch What Crapins is joining us later this episode to talk all things. Bravo. We got some Orange County to talk about. We obviously just have the Bravo sphere. And then we have the ultimate girls trip, which was a really lovely episode, I thought. I mean, my heart, I'm becoming a Lisa Barlow apologist.

I'm super fan. Also, Vicki Gundelson, just an icon. Like, I can't believe they ever fired her. It's truly, she's just a gift that keeps on giving. We also have Whitney Carson from Dancing with the Stars. She's been in the news this week. She has announced her pregnancy for her third child. She also was, it also was announced that she is partnering with Guillermo of Jimmy Kimmel Live.

So we get to talk with Whitney about the upcoming season. She's also a guest judge on the next pro show that is airing right now. So lots to get into with Whitney. always a pleasure having her on. Great intro, Nick. Hold on. Oh my goodness. Patches up on the back.

I really did it. Well, before we get to our guest, lots to get into, we are touring schools. We are touring schools. For River. That's wild. You really feel like a parent

when you have to start doing that because before that it's just like, I don't know, go to the bathroom, eat, you know, don't die. You know. Drop them. Don't, yeah, don't drop them. Now it's like you have to like

Got to make decisions And then for the first time ever You start like I think being worried about like Do we belong? You know? Like are we going to be accepted? We're touring some private schools A variety of-

Okay Are you okay? I'm never okay With all these noises making Childbirth You've been missed Keeping him humble Yeah

We're touring some schools Some of which are private We've toured public We've toured private We're touring them all It's really interesting. You didn't really know. Do you feel like you have to impress?

A little bit. Our first one, yeah. I was like, what do I wear? I want to, you know, I want to look like, mom. Yeah. Do you feel like you're dating? Yeah, 100%. You'd like want to make a good first impression.

You go in your like super bubbly. I've never seen Nick smile more or like talk to strangers more. I was like, yeah, look like you're having fun. Look alive. Look alive. But it's really, it's really interesting. because yeah, you're, you know, then you have to apply. But we went to one this morning and Victoria Fuller came with us.

And so it really looked like Nick was with his wife and his girlfriend. Yeah. It was just Nick was too. That's how we introduced Victoria. This is my mistress. That's a good looking crew to ruck up to school with, like the three of y'all. Oh, my gosh. Also, that's great for the school because they're like, oh my God, we already know there's no scandal to upheave.

Like we're not going to find out anything later. They're coming in with it hot. Again, first. Yeah, first day. Also, for like any of the single dads that might have seen Victoria, like a great reason to enroll your child at this school, she might come around. Exactly. She might be a secret weapon.

Then you start, like, looking at all the teachers in the school and you start like. Like, who's going to be around my, because you, Rivers never been around anyone other than us. So then it's like, okay, who's she going to be spending all this time with? Like, you're looking. Then you start getting like emotional. And then they're like, okay, and this is the drop off location. you just drop her off. We'll bring her inside from your car. I'm like, oh, I don't get to walk her in

and introduce her to, like, hold her hands and stuff. Like, I just drop her off. Well, as you, many of you know, we interviewed the three ladies from the double lives of suburban wives, the adult content creators who are also moms, they're also Christians, their daughters of pastors. And it was a fantastic going deeper. If you haven't listened to it, pause this episode, go back and listen and come back to us. But obviously, these women have to deal with judgment. and they're, you know, being ostracized from their community, you know, and it's just like, you know, touring a school. I literally, they're like, okay, well, you apply.

And then if you get accepted, you know, then if you then agree and I'm like, oh my God, they're going to go on my Instagram page and they're going to see our clip of me interviewing a bunch of adult content creators. And I'm like, is that going to stop them from like accepting our daughter? And then it was like, oh, I couldn't imagine what these women have to deal with with like the constant like, you know, for the first time ever when you're having your kid go to school, I've never really thought about what my community thinks of me or us, you know? It's kind of like, I don't know, we just stay inside most of the time and do our thing.

And now it's like, I hope they like us, you know, like. Well, can I ask you guys if, if you found out that one of the teachers was an adult content creator, would that deter you from like enrolling River in that school? I mean, listen, I'd be lying if I wouldn't be like, is this a red flag? I don't, I, you know, I don't know. I mean, listen, like, I said this on Tuesday's episode. I think the thing I care about the most, like one of the schools, for example, is a Christian-based school.

Like, neither Nelly and I are big into religion at this point in our lives, right? And so when they started talking about it, they, obviously, it's what their school is about, but they were quick to be like, you know, when we talk about the Bible or Christian, you know, when kids start having questions, we kind of stop it right there and be like, that's a conversation. to you for you to have with mom and dad. Like they were quick to let us know that they're not trying to indoctrinate our kids with their beliefs. Obviously it's a tenant of the school and like there's a balancing act.

And like that was like as a parent really reassuring to hear because regardless of what it is, right? Because I think, you know, again, like I grew up Christian. I think there's a lot of beautiful elements to that religion. Obviously there's, you know, there's pros and cons to every religion. But I just, I want my, I want my kids teachers teaching them school and lessons. I don't want whatever, you know, whatever your teachers are doing outside on their free time, I don't want them bringing their points of view into the school.

And I want them to respect the fact that like, while they're their teachers, they're not their parents. I always get a little nervous when teachers are like, I love them like my own. I'm like, they're not. They're not your own. You know, you're the teacher. So for me, that's like the biggest reassuring thing to hear. So, yeah, I mean, it's like, I guess.

if you're doing that, you know, my kid is not going to, you know, river's not online. As long as you don't come in, you're not like, this is what I was doing this weekend. Right. Yeah. It's a tricky question. I would like to, I would like to think I'd have an open mind, but, you know. Listen, teachers don't get paid that much. You know what I'm saying?

And like, people got to survive. And so I understand that. I understand you got to provide for your family, how you can provide for a family. Mm-hmm. Well, do you guys, what, have you guys seen this Penn State fraternity brothers stuff? It's awesome. Sorry. I shouldn't be promoting white color crime, but it makes me think of just like going to school and like, you know, you never know what ends up happening to your kids.

Well, for those of you who don't know what's going on at Penn State, a school that is just can't get out of the controversy space. I mean, they've, in the in the list of things that Penn State has been involved on, a group of a fraternity brothers running a cocaine drug ring, where the leader of this drunk ring, his nickname is Pablo Pleds. What is it? Pablo Pledge, Cabar. Pablo Pledgecabar, which is a playoff. It's a great name. It's a great name.

It's a great name. It's a great name. One of the most notorious drug kingpins in the history of drug kingpins. But he had like a full-fledged like criminal enterprise where he would loan out money to students. And if they couldn't pay back, they would, he would turn him into drug dealers. There was a prominent like dad who's a local like prominent lawyer being a part of this whole drug ring. It's like crazy. Yeah.

I mean, you do go to college. to start businesses. You do, right? There's some positive... It is an entrepreneurial spirit. It's very organized. We can't blame him for that. He said, listen, when you get in debt,

you got to work it off. It's like doing the dishes in the back. You know what I mean? When you can't pay for your meal. Some of my friends would just like walk across a sidewalk when it was a little dangerous to maybe hope to make a few bucks potentially if they got hit by a car or something.

Oh my gosh. And they never did, but it was always a thing that we would say. Okay. And honestly, I'm like, low cocaine. Kingpin? Yeah. Entrepreneurial spirit.

Well, when I was in college, my junior year, me and some of my buddies got a house and there was a basement. And we threw some house parties. And the basement, you know, you charge five bucks a cup. You cram a bunch of people in the basement. Absolute terrible fire hazard. Yes. Yeah.

And we paid our rent for an entire semester throwing these weekly parties. It was. That's amazing. Yeah. It felt really, really, it really fit your vibe. I wasn't the ringleader. Yeah. Yeah.

I wasn't Pablo. You're the accountant? Yeah. Nick was working off the debts. Nick was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got the $5. I'm going to, we're going to turn this into 15. No, honestly, I was kind of the curmudginy, like, we're being too loud guy. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. That makes sense. Then Nick would be like, everyone's having too much fun. Stop it. Guys, you guys really need to keep it down. The cops are on their way. But it was really, when the party was done and then we're counting. all the cash, I felt like, I felt like a little bit of a couple.

Pledge cabaret. It was, you know, 30 money, stacking ones. Dirty money. That's how I felt bartending. At the end of the night, it's like 4 a.m. We're sitting on top of the pool tables, like dumping out the buckets of ones and fives. I love a nickname. You know, Kyle on our team is Kyle Music because he was like, he was a music major.

What's Susie's name in your phone? Susie Evans. Okay. She's important enough for her last name. Well, I, you know, I knew Susie and Sierra like before. They didn't get a nickname. They didn't get a name. So would you rather be Mary or Kyle?

Do you want a nickname? Or do you guys offended that you don't have nicknames? Or are you, or is Mary offended that I don't know her last name? No, I would honestly rather be Mary WNBA. Honestly, I think he would have changed your last name officially to WMBA. The WNBA. That's actually maybe like a branding opportunity. Yeah.

I don't know. New handle. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What is my name in your phone? Sexy, gorgeous wife? No, it is not. It's wife.

You know what it is. You put it in. Is it wifey? Yeah. And when we got married, she changed it. What was it before that? It was Natalie. Natalie.

He didn't save my number for so long. With a heart emoji? For so long he didn't save my number. I don't save, I don't save a lot of numbers. Do you have a hard time responding to text messages from people? How dare you? Yeah, I mean, I'm not the best for sure. I'm curious.

Sometimes you're neurodivergent, right? I've been accused. Where is this going? I've been accused. I think we have like a similar brand of neurodivergence where like I don't, I have facial blindness. You talk about this, right? Yes. I have facial blindness.

I'm really bad with last names, honestly, first names. Don't, I really don't do well with saving numbers. in my phone and I have a hard time responding with text messages and it builds up and it becomes and I think there's like I think it's like a very like unique brand that all kind of goes together. I would love to blame it on my brain. I, you know, I always took it as like, you know, honestly, I don't know if this person's going to be in my life in three months. That's crazy. He's like, you know what? I met Mary and I was like, I don't know if she's going to work here that

long. So Mary J.MPA. I want to go. I got to go through my phone and it's just like I have I have names in my phone and I'm like I don't who the fuck is this person yeah you know yeah yeah I have a lot of that too hey all you update plus callers if you don't if you don't hear from me it's because nick didn't respond to the text yeah yeah it's just like you know are you going to stick around are you going to be in my life if I think you should stick with the neurodivergency and it's yeah that feels like a little bit kinder. I think I'm realizing at this point my life that like a lot of these things like connect to each other. So I don't know if it's the same thing. But sometimes when you talk, I'm like,

wow, I'm like, that's a lot of those same issues going on over here. But I don't know. Maybe it's, maybe it's a part of the facial blindness and the memory of the word association. I don't know. Even like putting WMBA next to your name. I'm like, that's like an association to help, you know, associate somebody with something. And it's something that I do to help myself sometimes too. We got to talk about our girl Jesse Draper. She is, I hate to say this, but like the internet is saying she's being canceled, which I, first and foremost, I hate it when like people like, first of all, she's not being canceled. She's lower C canceled. She deactivated her accounts.

Well, I'm sure she feels that way, right? And she's catching. She's catching a lot of heat. And it's honestly like, I don't know. I just feel like fan culture has gotten out of control. and I think it's really great that like, you know, listen, like the reality TV space, the influencer space, we wouldn't obviously be what we are with obviously without the fans. And it's great that fans can interact and have relationships and parasycial relationships with people on TV. But when they do something, you know, when they, I don't know, when they, it's just like the way fans become almost too much of fans and, and then try to really, character assassinate these people. They also just expect everyone to be perfect, perfect, every second of every day and never make a mistake, never slip up, never say the wrong thing.

Tell a joke that doesn't land. Not to mention, like as public figures, as content creators, as influencers, as as reality TV stars, there's an expectation, obviously, to make a lot of content. And, you know, there's a lot of pressure there. And with that pressure, sometimes can come sloppiness or when you're doing a podcast and you're being interviewed by someone who, like has a stick and they you know like it maybe it's a comedy podcast and like there's a you know there's nerves to like oh I want to be funny too and tell jokes and things like that and if you're not necessarily used to doing that maybe you tell a joke that doesn't quite land they said in the movie the social network the internet is not written in pencil it's written in ink and so now you

have like all this content that people can go back and look years later and then pick you know and make and try to turn into something it never was and then and then it becomes this thing like when I first saw this clip that we're about to talk about it was just on Caitlin Bristell's podcast. And I was like, oh, Jesse, like last week did a podcast. This is a podcast that happened a year ago. No one said shit about. And now she's like under, like, now she's under fire when we have people calling her a sociopath.

She's having to defend herself as a mom. She's having to like justify that like her kids are not in danger around her, which is an absolute, like, insane response. And the way the internet just catches fire. Anyways, if you don't know what we're talking about, there's a content creator, Natasha T. who broke this story down in a very, a very efficient and compact way. So we're going to play this clip of Natasha T.

Shout out Natasha for doing a very good job of summarizing the situation that Jesse Draper is dealing with at this present moment. And we'll discuss after her. Why is Jesse Draper getting canceled and why is she beefing with someone named Katie Sond? I'm going to give you the two-minute debrief of what you actually need to know because my head is spinning. Here are the players in the story. Jesse Draper, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, her assistant, Jay. this random store in Utah called Indy Clover that resells clothing.

You can rent a booth for a monthly fee, stock it with your clothes, and people can come in and buy them. And this girl, Katie's saunt. She has sold product to Jessie in the past. They have each other's numbers. They've texted a few times. They've been moat a few times, but they definitely don't seem close. In June of this year, Jay did a story time on his social media accounts that blew up. I'm going to give you his version of the story first.

He says that someone from Indy Clover reached out to him and Jesse and said, would you like to sell your clothes at our store? She replied that she did, and he coordinated a pickup for the clothes, which has happened to be picked up from this lady, Katie Sond. He gave her seven bags of clothing, and she said that she was going to tag them, price them, obviously put them in the store and sell them as part of Jessie's closet. Jay is under the impression that he gave the clothes to an Indy Clover employee, i.e. Katie. Indy Clover says that that is not their employee and that she has not brought the clothes to their store. Several days go by and she still is being sketchy about giving them the clothes and Jay is trying

to say, I can just pick them up and bring them to Indy Clover. long story short she ends up bringing the clothes over in a stroller and it does not look like the amount of clothes that jesse had actually given her because everything seemed so sketchy indy clover had already called the cops when she got there and they ended up arresting her and getting a search warrant for her house and her car from what i understand in jay's story they were able to recover pieces of jesse's clothing that had not made it into indy clover that she still had and now jessey is pressing charges let's move on to katy's side of the story katy's version is that she had a friend at Indy Clover who was telling them that they're doing some sort of grand opening event and they were looking for people to have booths. She said that she was close with Jessie and could probably get her to have a booth at their store. So she reaches out to Jesse and says, I'd love to pick up some of your clothes if you want to sell them at Indy Clover. Jesse says yes. And she coordinates this meeting with Jay to get the clothes. Jay gives her seven bags of clothes, which she says are 13 gallon tall kitchen bags. She brings them back to her house to look at. And she says a lot of them

are like sweatpants, some of them are stained, and they're just not really the quality of things that you would want to sell at Indy Clover. So she comes up with this idea that she is also going to add some of her own clothes or some of like other people's clothes to make it look more appealing as a booth. According to Katie, she did run this by the manager at Indy Clover and they were okay with the idea.

Then Katie said life just got busy. She needed their help with tagging things and pricing things, but she just hadn't made it to the store yet. So she goes to the store a few days later and is very surprised She did not realize that there was this massive miscommunication, that people were waiting on her, that people thought she wasn't giving them the clothes. She is evidently completely blindsided by this. Everything else in the story? Details you don't need to know. So Katie has been fighting for her life online the past three months trying to show that she is not a thief. Essie is pressing charges

wrongfully and trying to clear her name with all the receipts, the information, just so many details. But Jessie is still pressing charges. And then today happens. And Katie wakes up and evidently chooses violence because she unsurface a clip that Jessie did an On the Vine podcast a few years ago where she makes a very distasteful comment about getting surgery down there and then it looking like her daughter again kind of saying that like she was brand new down there. Katie posts that on her page. It obviously goes viral and people realize that she's out for blood. That's why we get to today where Jesse Draper has deactivated her social media

because of all of the hatred she's getting for that comment. And Katie's over here saying, I'm just trying to clear my name and sharing things that Jesse said herself. So the question is, is Katie some sort of manic psychopath that stole clothes from Jesse Draper and should go to jail for that? Or is she just some misunderstood Good Samaritan who was trying to help this local boutique and everything just really spiraled and now she's being wrongfully accused of theft? You decide. Yikes. I'm going to have to go with-

First of all, shut out for that video. Psychopath doesn't deserve jail time, but seems a little crazy. Yeah, I mean, like, first of all, the fact that like the store itself is like, we don't employ this person. we don't know this person. I have to assume that like this Katie person, the part of her story that probably is true is that she knew someone or knows someone who worked there because the question is like,

how did she coordinate this pickup, right? So she almost sounds like an obsessed fan who had some kind of relationship with Jesse, some interaction. We know that through like the Venmo payments and things like that. And then what do you mean life got busy? You brought like a close. closet full of clothes and they're like just you immediately drop it off if you like no also like

you have seven back trash bags of clothes sitting in your house how is that not like a reminder every single day hey i got to do something with these bags well to play devil's advocate for her i have had goodwill bags in my trunk for months are they your clothes they're not for in your trunk in your trunk but she said she brought them inside to inspect the clothes some were sweats some had stained she incorporated other people's clothes. They weren't just sitting in her trunk for nine months. Yeah. Are those your clothes, Mary? Yes.

Yeah. So like, yeah. You know she wanted to see. You cleaned out your closet. You had the intention of dropping it off at Goodwill. And then you're like, oh, I forgot they were there. You didn't pick up someone and say like, hey, can you do me a favor and pick these up and drop a bar? You know, if you picked up a celebrity's clothes, you'd be like, I got to take these bitches inside and go through this right now. I would be like, these cannot be in my Hyundaicona.

Like, that's wrong. No, I think the jail time does sound aggressive. but there's also a part of me that's like, if I had to guess what's in Jesse Draper's closet, probably thousands upon thousands of dollars of designer bags, designer clothes. Like, I have to imagine she has really high-end clothing. Yeah, there's probably a lot of value in those bags. Value. So, I mean, yeah, jail time does sound aggressive, but if you're, if this could be $50,000 worth of clothing.

Like, not to be dramatic, but it really could be that amount of money, which if you're thinking about, like, I'm thinking about my Goodwill bag, I'm like, okay, like maybe a couple, a couple grand is spent in there or whatever. I don't know, but it could be 50K. Well, aside from the value of the clothes, it is giving like stalker behavior, right? Because this is a person who was potentially dishonest about their relationship with the store,

use whatever kind of relationship they had with potentially an employee to give a false sense of like safety and trust to Jesse because she invited this person in their house to pick up these clothes. Again, like not. that there was anything necessarily personally these bags

but like you don't want a fan going through your stuff trying clothes on maybe taking some of this stuff that to me is the potentially more like scary illegal thing going on and then this like her posting this clip you know like

even if this Katie person is telling the truth right and maybe she is being wrongfully accused what is her posting this clip have anything to do with it right like is she suggesting because it was a bad joke that Jesse played. I mean, I'm surprised I even made the episode.

Like, you know, again, like, I'm sure, like, Caitlin's podcast, Caitlin's always like telling jokes and that's kind of her stick. And like, if you're on the show, you want to like, you know, again, you want to like match the energy of the host. But like, it was a bad joke, you know. We've seen worse, more off-brand jokes being, you know, on fucking network television by comedians. You know what I'm saying?

I don't know, Jesse's not a comedian. but like you don't have to be comedian to try to tell a joke and just because you try doesn't mean you are successful in landing that joke it's a gross joke like we can all acknowledge that but the again now it jesse is being called just these horrible names and now you're having a bunch of people who don't know the context of this video don't even know when it's posted and this katy person is successfully taking the heat off of her and putting it on to jesse it's just really gross i mean again like yeah Jesse that was a bad joke you know like I don't think Jesse needs to defend like people act like you know when you're with your friends you know Jesse made the judge made the bad decision of

putting this on a public platform for people to judge and critique and as a public figure she's just going to have to learn to like to know better and I'm sure she's learned a lot over the course of the year in terms of what to share and what not to share but like we've all told dark jokes with our friends and sometimes you're like too far yeah and you're like you kind of like it gets a little squeamish, but like, you know, people tell bad jokes. Like, that doesn't, that's not, the fact that Jesse is having to defend herself as a mom is just a, I think a horrible thing in the way people are jumping on. And then, again, this potential stalker and person who like lied to, to get access to Jesse is successfully like sitting back and feeling like probably this power and probably this

excitement on trying to destroy the reputation of someone she seems to be clearly obsessed with. And it's just like, honestly, it's really scary and really dark when it comes to like the access. You know, like, again, is it, you know, being a, you know, an influencer, being a reality TV star, obviously different than like being like Brad Pitt or whatever. And so much of your job is to give is to give of yourself, to be accessible, right? To meet and greets and just, you know, be relatable, be normal. be normal and there is an expectation and a pressure to like, you know, meet with fans and be normal and things like that. And with that comes that scary kind of vulnerability of letting the wrong

person in. And I honestly think this is a really scary situation. And the fact that Jesse is now being just absolutely destroyed online for, you know, again, really bad gross joke. No one's defending the joke. No one's saying it's okay. But the way. they are talking about is if like this is defining her as a parent as a human being because she told an off-brand joke is like the internet is just like losing their mind and uh i i just i feel for jesse i don't think she deserves this type of heat in vitriol and uh yeah it's it's you know it's gross sad what do you guys think about the her deactivating her social media account because i know she was doing that like to protect her own peace obviously and also because her assistant

and had been catching heat, so she wanted to protect him as well. And I was just, you know, how do you guys feel about like when it's worth it, when it's not worth it? Like the pros and cons of doing that. I think taking it off your phone maybe, like when you delete the app from your phone, I think that is maybe better for people's mental health. But when you deactivate, then it becomes even more of a story because people are like, oh, she's deactivating her account. And then it gets picked up and it makes headlines. It's like making more attention drawn to it, in my opinion. Yeah.

I mean, I wonder, I doubt, Jesse even thought it that much through. I mean, we were. Well, we saw, I mean, Macy ended up posting on her store on Jesse's story being like, I know Jesse deactivated her account, but she forgot we have work and we have jobs and our jobs are on social media and we have brand campaigns we have to do. So here we are. I'm going to do it for her. Here we are at this event and da da da da da da da da da da da da da and click this link and blah.

Like she still had work to do and Macy just jumped on and did it for her, you know? but like, I mean, I've had my comments limited on my Instagram posts for years now, I feel like, since River was born, because it got to a point where I was like, why am I letting people who don't follow me who like don't want to know what I'm doing, like support me, comment under like photos of my family and say terrible, horrible things? Like, I'm just not going to allow that to even be possible. And why more people don't do that? I don't understand. Well, it's tough, though, because this is Jesse's job to Macy's point. Imagine, like, going into your work and then everyone calling you a psychopath, a piece of shit, you know, an unsafe mother. You know, again, I mean, I can only imagine some of the disgusting things that are being, you know, talked on her page. It's like we talked about this when we were talking about the mom shaming stuff. When the internet comes for you, it is terrifying. I don't care who you are.

And if it is your livelihood and you, you know, and like, you can get, you. used to, you can ignore the haters and you can get better at that, but everyone has their limits. And it's really like, it's hard not to let those things get in. And so maybe at the point where Jesse deactivated her account, she wasn't maybe thinking that through. Maybe it was just like in a moment of sheer panic. Maybe, you know, maybe she read a comment and had a, you know, when you, when you're a mom or a parent and you're literally having to be like, children's safety is the, you know, like, again, having to justify that you're, you're a fit mother. That, that must be. You know, that, that must be a horrifying thing for any parent to say, especially when it's the, is a result of like,

again, a really bad joke that you told over a year ago that at the time when it was told, no one blinked an eye. No one said anything. You know, it wasn't highlighted, it wasn't focused, but because this Katie person isolated that joke and just made it all, you know, what I don't, again, not that the context matters of the joke, it was a bad joke, but it was just like clearly when people listen to the entirety of that conversation, no one thought anything about it. But it also makes you wonder, like, how did that Katie girl know about that joke over a year? Like, how much energy did she put to scour every interview that Jesse ever did? Or maybe she just was already aware of it because she's so obsessed with, you know, Jesse. You know, like, I've said this

before. Fans show up for Fanatic. Everyone knows the story of the late great Selena, who was literally murdered by the president of her fan club. I mean, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to say that this Katie person is is that dangerous, but like sometimes fans don't understand the boundaries and they, and there's an expectation of some fans of like, well, I'm, I'm your fan. And I give you so much. I've supported you. I get, I deserve something in return. And when that person doesn't meet that fan's expectation, sometimes those fans can get

pretty dark and do some very shady things. It is scary to think that like this girl was at her house, like, where her kids and then went on social media and tried to like destroy her take her down yeah like that is a scary thought that like you know where she lives yeah yeah it's terrifying it was a bad joke but like again i did the fact that jesse is dealing with this type of scrutiny and this type of heat and you're having a bunch of people online jumping at this opportunity to just take someone down and you know act like they're the better parent or like as if as if anyone in the comments is not told a really bad joke that was someone was like, oh, that don't, too far. You know, too far. And you're like,

you're right. Anyways, the whole thing's gross. Justice for Jesse, I hope, if Jesse, if you're listening to this, I hope you're protecting your mental health. And if you are someone who is just hearing about this story, just before you jump into someone's comments and say some nasty shit, make sure you maybe know the full contact or maybe just keep it to yourself. Like, if you want to shit on Jesse, call your friend, getting your group chat. You don't need to do it in the comments. Agree. Agree. Agree. And also it's just like in reality TV, I feel like so much of the stuff gets so dark and like the stuff with Jesse. And it's and at the end of the day, I always try to remember that we're talking about so much just like fun stuff a lot of the time. It should be

light. It should be light. It should be light. We're actually talking about a bunch of like really, really silly stuff on Bob House Plus. Me and Bailey specifically. Because Bailey's getting into housewives. Yeah, so Bailey and I did like a full, like deep dive of her just like asking me questions as she's getting into Ultimate Girl's trip. Oral history of Bravo and Housewives. I need to watch this. Yeah. I need the history. I know.

I know. It's been fun. And then we had like on our like pop episode because Nick obviously, you know, he's a busy. He's a working dad. He can't make it all the time. So we kind of had a little like the kids took over. And it was me, some other members of the household, Bailey, Zach. And yeah, it was really fun.

And we just chit-shadowed a bunch of headlines. Gracie Abrams. Phoebe Bridger's Gracie Abrams drama. Yeah. Zombie filler. Yeah. Oh, my God. Speaking of zombie filler.

I haven't been on TikTok in, I don't know, over a year now. And I really hadn't been keeping up with any pop culture stuff, like since I had the twins, clearly just been a little preoccupied, you know. Haven't watched really any TV. Haven't really been on social media. And Genevieve the other day was like, oh my gosh have you seen that Alex Earle got zombie filler in her butt and I was like what she did and she was like yeah she got it's like dead people's filler in her butt and I was like she's she said that she did that and she was like no I just saw TikToks and I was like oh well that feels

like a rumor and she was like well it's like people are showing like before and after so I was like still feels like a rumor and then she like not even 10 minutes later she's like did you hear that like Patrick Clancy is the one who like murdered his children. And I was like, what? That came out in court. She's like, oh, no, no. It's just like stuff on TikTok. And I was like, oh, my God.

Like, to the normal person who isn't on social media, like, this is, these are crazy things to say. And it was like, what I love to say is when I see something on TikTok, the streets are saying the streets. Like, the streets are saying that that's not necessarily true. But that's what's scary about it because like we're just, we're scrolling, we're not thinking about it. You see it and you take it as true.

or fact and you're just in. I had to be like Genevieve, I don't, I don't know if these things are true. I mean, now that I have looked more into the Patrick Clancy, Lindsay Clancy story. Dude, it's crazy. Some weird stuff going on. Yeah. I do feel like maybe there is more to that story. Yeah, I don't know if he did it, but something happened.

Like, something happened. Someone was holding her Apple Watch and going up and down them stairs. Yeah. Anyway, that's something we should get into our on Plus, actually. Well, if you want to get to know the household and you want to get even deeper in your favorite reality TV shows and talk about some of the favorite pop culture topics we didn't get to on reality recap, you can find it all on VALFiles Plus. They're all ad-free episodes as well. And you also get your favorite updates from your favorite Ask Nick Caller.

So be sure to sign up for VALFOS Plus. You can do that by going to VialFiles.com and you'll really enjoy it. Up next, we have Whitney Carson, the most recent mirror ball champion. and she has some really exciting news going on in her life, including being paired with Guillermo from Jimmy Kimmel Live, and she is with us next to talk about all the new exciting news going on in her life. And then following Whitney Carson, we'll have Ben Mandelcour from Watch What Crappins to talk all things Bravo,

including Real Housewives OFC, and Ultimate Girl's Trip. Whitney, welcome back. Thank you. It's good to be back. A lot has changed since the last time I was talking to me, guys. A lot of change. Well, congratulations. You had so much going on.

It's such an exciting time of your life. You just obviously announced a pregnancy, which is such a beautiful, exciting thing. We're both parents of three now. Look at us. Oh, my gosh. I was going to say congratulations to you guys, too. Your girls are so beautiful. Oh, my goodness.

It's crazy. Has it been insane? A little insane. Yeah, a little insane. But, you know, I can imagine. Do you know what you're having yet? I do know. Okay.

Yeah, we're kind of waiting until like the 20-week ultrasounds, we can for sure confirm, you know what I mean? Yeah. We did like that little sneak peek test at the beginning, but I don't fully trust that. Believe it yet. So. Do you all do gender reveals? Like, have you done that before? We've done it before, but this time, our third around, we just wanted it to keep it, like, really simple.

So we just did it with the boys and we just, we didn't do like the whole. Explosion. No fireworks. Yeah. Jumping out of a plane. We had a friend offered a jump out of a plane. And I was like, no, we're just going to pop a balloon, I think. We'll just have the doctor call us.

People go just too far, I feel like with gender reveals. It's like, okay, we've gotten it. It's gotten out of town. Truly. Are your boys so excited? They are so excited. Yeah, we've kept it a secret for so long. So the fact that we can, like, share it now, they always ask me, they're like,

Mom, can I tell? And they're so, they're so excited. So by the time, by the time this baby's born, my oldest will be six and then my youngest will be four. So I feel like it's a perfect, it really is a perfect time for us to grow our family and have a third. I really wish that I had twins, though, because then you can just get it done in one pregnancy. That is true.

Knock it out. Knock it out. Pregnancy for me is so hard. It's just hard. It is rough. I mean, I don't know how y'all do it. I really have so much admiration for you ladies. And it's a lot easier on this end.

Yeah, but you definitely need a good partner for sure. You guys, your guys' role matters a lot. So you're not getting away. No, no. I was feeding them both by myself last night because Natalie had to go up and tend to river. So it's definitely conquer and divide. Good, no.

Wait, how did you tell Carson? We both found out together. At the same time. Okay, cute. Yeah, at the same time. We were completely surprised, honestly. We would get pregnant that quickly. So it was a little bit of like, oh, okay, I really didn't have being four months pregnant

in dancing and competing on my bingo card this year. But that's what we're doing. It is amazing. Well, first of all, it was just announced that you're partnering with Guillermo. So that's super excited. He's an icon. Do you know him well? Have you met with him at all?

Like, what's your relationship with him? We actually just met for the first time today. Okay. Today was our first meet. He is so sweet, you guys. Like, immediately when you meet him, he's not like your normal comedian where he's got, like, a bunch of jokes stored up. He's just, like, naturally funny, naturally very endearing. I was telling him today, I'm like, yeah, you know, I won last year and I really want to win again.

Like, I've just, I've got that high in me. Like, I want to just, I want to kill it this season. He's like, okay, but let's not get greedy. He's just very real and very funny. So I think people will absolutely adore him. He's so sweet. Now, I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are going to be the most furthest along in your pregnancy

while competing on Dancing with the Stars. And so there have been other pregnant women before competed, but you being four months will be the furthest along anyone's ever done this before. I believe so. I think maybe Allison Holker had done it before. I don't know specifically how long she was, but Daniela's done it early pregnant. Her and I did it with Jett and Nikita, her daughter, but we were in the first trimester. So we didn't announce that we were pregnant till the end of the season. So yeah, going into the season in my second trimester, I'll be about six months pregnant in the finale.

Oh, that was going to be our next question. So you've made. You have mapped it out. So when you, you and Guillermo make the finale, you'll be six months. We were joking today, actually. I was like, you're going to lose your belly and I'm going to gain my belly. Have we thought about, like, your outfits? Not really. I haven't gotten that far. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous. I mean, I'm just, I'm really putting my body out there for the entire world to judge and comment on, which can be really, like, scary for a woman. And I was just like, you know what? I'm just going to go for it because this is how we are as women. And I think it's empowering to see women just to embrace their bodies and do it on live television. So I mean, that's mainly why I announced because I was like, I'm not trying to hide it. I don't want to hide it.

I just want to like be me. And I think, you know, creating life and growing a baby is like the best thing ever. And it's like my biggest honor ever. So I'm not going to be ashamed of it. No. And how iconic that like your child is going to be able to watch this back and be like, and there I am. And there I am. I danced right with my mom. And the good news is, is the internet's always kind and understanding and gracious. So you have nothing to worry about. No haters at all. It's just all butterflies and rainbows over there. But so far it's been good. Well, that's awesome. You know, Natalie and I obviously, we've talked so much about like obviously how having kids has been such a blessing for us and such a, you know, positive thing for our relationship. But like, certainly with

with the twins and River, it is definitely a challenge for us to like, you know, focus on, you know, being a couple and connecting and just finding those intimate moments. How do you and Carson still, like, find the time to be a couple and date and do all those things that, you know, every, every young couple with young kids, you know, struggles with. And any advice for us or anyone out there who are, are looking for ways to make that connection, keep going. Oh my gosh. It's difficult. But I always say if you're married to the right person, life is difficult, but the marriage shouldn't be difficult. Like, your relationship shouldn't be difficult. It's just the outside situation. So we really always come back to the core of like what we believe and what, you know, what it is that, that, you know,

got us married. And that is that we just keep dating and keep trying to find time for each other. It's so difficult because we both work full-time jobs. I mean, he runs all of our companies, and I obviously am doing the show. So it's really difficult to find time, but you just, you have to do it. And I think just for us, it's just, you know, those small moments. I think Adam Sandler said something at Taylor's wedding. I like vaguely remember it's like, don't get in the roommate phase like ever. Like always just keep trying and keep, you know, doing little kisses here and there. Just making sure that you keep it romantic. Remember why you got married in the first place, which

wouldn't be hard. Were you an attendee at the wedding? No. No. I'm just saying, I'm an Advent Taylor Swift fan, so I know everything that happened were worse. It wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if somehow

you guys have crossed past and you got an invite. I mean, she really, she really invited everyone, but I am not, I am not a part of that list. Someday. Natalie, you know, she's obviously a huge fan of your dancing, and particularly she loves all the spins and the lifts and the kind of gymnastic type things that you're doing your dance.

What, if anything, are you going to be limited to, given the fact that you're pregnant, are we still going to get the iconic Whitney lifts and are some of those things off limits as you progress in your pregnancy? I think I might be lifting Guillermo. I think it might be the other little route. It was the first time today where I was like, I'm like towering over someone. I'm very straight. But he's, I don't think I'm going to be doing.

any lifts this this season. And I think with each partner, you have to find their strengths and weaknesses. And like specifically with Danny and Mandola, like that was our strength. It was like the lifts and the tricks and the really like dangerous things. But, you know,

my biggest priority is keeping this baby healthy and keeping myself healthy. So I don't think I'm going to be jumping off this season. But we'll find other ways to keep it entertaining. And I think that he just has such a personality that we can work with it. and keep it entertaining. Yeah, he's definitely, you already have the fan favorite thing going for you guys.

He's really sweet. We just have to work on his, like, memory, like practice, practice, practice, and then his stamina. He didn't realize that we had to dance for a minute straight. So we were very worried about that. He was like, I don't worry. He was like, how long do I have to do this for him? Like, one minute. Yeah.

Wow. Do you guys start practice right now? Obviously, unofficially, but are you guys in the studio doing things right now already? But we're slowly getting into things. So usually when we first meet our partner, it's usually just like, what can you do? Do you have any dance experience? What's your, you know, I mean, Nick, you probably remember how like the first week went. It's very like, you get your feet in the water. Let's test it out. And then as soon as we get our first track, then it's like all cylinders go. Yeah. Gotcha. I know they haven't announced the full cast. Do you know who's in the full cast and you have to keep it secret? Are you still kind of not fully aware who's all participating? I'm not supposed to know, but there are no secrets among the pros on Dancing with the Stars.

We all tell each other everything. So everyone's having their first meets this week, so everyone knows who their partner is. It's going to be a really good cast. I feel like we have a good, diverse group, like, some. with a lot of skill, others with not so much. I think it's a really good, eclectic group. Dancing with the stars, it's not just about obviously the dancing and doing well. I know a lot of fans love to see the improvement.

You personally, do you have more fun with a partner that starting kind of at rock bottom and gets really good? Or is it more fun to have someone with just a little bit of dance experience where you can do some of the kind of more advanced, you know, dances? Yeah. Yeah. I would prefer someone with a little bit of dance experience if I'm going to be honest. But it is really satisfying and really rewarding when you can see someone really transform.

And that's like, that's the whole point of the show is to take someone that has no dance experience at all and transform them into a dancer. So that's really what it's about. Obviously, as a coach and a teacher, it is much easier and it goes by much faster if they have just a little bit. But like I was telling Guillermo today, like Robert didn't have a single ounce of, of knowledge of dance. So it really, we really started from Ground Zero with him, too. So that's just, I've never really had a partner that's had dance experience except for Milo. Milo was the only one that I felt like had actual dance experience and rhythm.

And then everyone else has really started from Ground Zero for me. So it's kind of just what I'm used to. I'm curious. Is rhythm something that you can teach people? Or are there some people that come in and you're like, yeah, they just, there's, no way they're ever going to be on beat. Yeah. Oh, there's been a lot of those. Like, I will put on the music

and I'll just be like, all right, just clap to the beat. Like, some of them can't even do that. And it blows my mind because it's just such second nature to me. So we really have to go off the music. So, like, I'll cue them off of, like, music and lyrics and I'll cue them off of counts.

Or I'll just push them to where they need to go. Oh, my gosh. Just manhandle that. Speaking of your former partner, Robert, he's obviously hosting the Next Pro show, which you were a guest judge on? Yeah. Yeah, the episode aired last night, and then you can watch it tonight on Hulu or Disney Plus. What was that experience like? Have you been a judge before in this arena?

No, and I surprisingly really loved being on that side of the judge's table. It's way less nerve-wracking. It was really, really fun. I mean, I got to know the dancers. I was in their rehearsals all week. It was really like a Dancing with the Stars episode because they had to teach a fan, a full routine in three days,

which was remarkable that they had something for us to judge. And I love being able to give feedback and criticism. I could do without the elimination. That was very hard for me because I knew that we were just like crushing someone's dream. Like it's like a life-changing opportunity for these dancers. And I just know what it's like. to be a pro, obviously.

So it was very, our thorn was hard. I was like, can we just all win? We'll just rotate out pros, you know? I'm curious because, obviously, all these pros competing to be

the next dancing pro, they're all exceptional dancers. They've been dancing their whole life. I'm curious, what is, like, one bit of advice that you noticed or gave them that kind of,

you know, they know how to dance, but like, in terms of being a pro on dancing with the stars, what is something that you kind of offered to them or told them about that would help them or whoever the eventual winner is. Yeah, I think for being a pro, like you just have to be adaptable. You have to keep learning because

where I was my first season to where I am now, I'm just a completely different teacher, completely different choreographer. Each celebrity has their own challenges and, you know, different strengths as well. So you have to be adaptable to how you coach. And so it was just kind of more like let your ego to the side, and you have to keep learning each and every season. And it will get better and better every season that you're on. So the winner of the next pro, we definitely are all supportive, and we're a family. So we want them to do well. Okay.

And so when you're competing, you're in L.A., does the whole family come out with you to Los Angeles, or is it a little bit of, like, conquer and divide? No, yeah. We don't do anything without each other. I'm just kind of a needy weirdo and I'm like, I can't leave my family for a longer. Hi, Carson.

Hey, Garts. You're like, I'm a needy person. I can't do anything without any of the same. Yeah, yeah. I'll ping him. If I don't hear from him in like an hour, I'll just start paying him. He's like, babe, I'm in a meeting.

I'm like, well, you're not answering your phone. Anyway, well, you guys know how it is. Yeah. So everyone's here. They're with me. My boys are old enough to now understand what I'm doing, which is really fun. And they know that I'm dancing on TV. The joke around our neighborhood is that mommy dances for money.

So that's fun to kind of clear up. Which is, it is getting harder these days because you're, like, there's literally a show on TV with like adult content creators who are moms. I know. So it's getting, it's fun to explain to the moms at preschool. I'm like, no, no, no. No, I'm on a television show. I'm on a television show. Do they, most of them know who you are?

I got to imagine many of them are fans of the show. They do now. They do now. But it was kind of refreshing. Like, nobody really had watched Dancing with the Stars before I moved in. So when I first moved in and they were getting to know me, then, you know, then they obviously watch it now because they're my friends. But it was kind of refreshing.

I was like, you guys don't know who I am? Like, I was a little bit offended. but also like it was a little bit refreshing at the same time but love it yeah what are you most excited about with this season i guess do you have any like uh you know rituals that you do or you know i guess with you being a pro for so long as is there like i don't know like a uniqueness that you're looking for to like remember each season yeah i think at this point in my career i mean i just one, I feel like I'm really just looking to just have fun, have fun, just and kind of enjoy what I'm doing. I think that, you know, Carson and I don't necessarily like have to do anything.

So when we do commit to something, it's something that is both of our passions and that we love. And I obviously love to dance and I love to compete and I love this show. So it's just, it's hard to say no. I mean, who can say no to Dancing with the Stars? It's just, it's awesome. It's the best show on television because it just promotes positivity and joy and, you know, people really have gotten behind it, which is really cool to see it kind of like have its moment again. But for me, I really just, the season just really want to enjoy myself, really take care of myself and the baby, obviously, first and foremost. But just to have fun. You know, I imagine you'll be an inspiration because obviously, like, it's, as you ladies know, it's a gift, obviously being pregnant. but there's so many challenges that come with it.

And to see you out there and pushing yourself, I'm sure will be an inspiration to a lot of moms out there. And it'd be really exciting to see you Excel. Thank you. I hope so. And also, it's like it's not everyone's journey, you know? Like, it's totally okay if you want to be pregnant and lay in bed. That's what I did for the first trimester. Like, I literally was in bed the entire time.

But, you know, this is like this is my journey and this is what feels right to me. the baby's healthy, then I don't know, I don't see a reason why I can't do both. And also, I feel like this is also my livelihood. This is how I provide for my family. So it's such a blessing to be able to work and to grow my family at the same time. But it will be, it'll be a challenge, I'm sure. But we'll take it one day at a time. So excited to watch. It's going to be so good. It'll be good. I'm sorry, Nat. I won't be doing any crazy gymnastics. So I don't know if you're going to still vote for me. You're still my favorite.

You have our vote. Yes. Thanks, guys. You guys are going to be the cutest duo between the two of you. I can't wait to see your outfits. I just think it's going to be so cute. He's so cute. He really is.

I mean, I just talked to the music department. I was like, how funny it would it be if we did like my humps by the blackhead peas and just like started bumping belly? Have we, have you talked to Guillermo about how many times he's going to make Jimmy Kimmel show up and support him to kind of help boost the vote? I mean, the whole Jimmy Kimmel team is there every day at the studio. So I think they're really excited. They're really involved. I'm sure Jimmy will make an appearance. He's very much is supportive of Guillermo and absolutely like it's his best friend.

So I'm sure he's going to make an appearance once or twice, I'm sure. That's awesome. Well, Whitney, we appreciate you taking the time. Congratulations on all the amazing things going on in your life. Say hi to Carson for us. and good luck with the pregnancy, good luck with the season. We'll be rooting for you.

Thank you. Really just excited for everything that's going on for you. And we really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much, guys. Congratulations as well. Good luck. Thanks, all right. Thank you.

See you guys. Bye. Bye. Welcome back, Ben. How you doing, buddy? I'm great. Thanks for having me, Nick. It's always a pleasure to have you on the show.

Always great to get into Bravo. I guess I just want to start with, like, What is your favorite thing going on in the Bravo sphere these days? Are you enjoying the lull of the Bravo? Or are you feeling a little like content depleted? I think that as a content creator, as a content creator, I'm loving the lull because it's been so much for so many months that actually have like only like eight episodes to do a week instead of 10

has been really nice. But as a viewer, I'm like ready for. were like sort of like major shows to come back like Salt Lake City and and all those. I miss my like every single day knowing what I was going to watch that night. Yeah. I hate getting like on a Tuesday or like a Thursday and I'm like, shit, okay, the valley ended. I don't even like that show that much, but like I literally have nothing else to watch. I'm totally, by the way, I'm totally into the valley.

Like the valley, I know people are hating on the valley this season, but I'm fully invested in just like the sadness of all these couples just going down the drain. Like I'm into it. That's my love language. For those who are not enjoying or watching the Valley, what are they missing out, Ben? I think they're missing out on, like, I, I, that's a great, that's a great question, because the answer doesn't sound right. Like, they are missing out on the sadness.

Yeah. Because it's actually kind of like, there's a lot of sort of like real stuff going on in there, as real as these shows can be. Like, you see the sadness of postpartum. You see the sadness of Nia and Danny. You see just like a lot of like muck, but like I feel like it's kind of like real like rooted in realness. I find it to be captivating to watch these couples languishing, you know, you know, here in Valley Village. Yeah, this is going to be a crazy association.

But you guys know Joan Didian the author. Oh, that's what I always think of with the Valley. Yeah. Well, I'm just like there's this like sad. There's this kind of like sadness in the way like Joan Didion writes about being in the 60s and L.A. when, like, Manson was happening. Yeah. And, like, there's a dread in everything she writes that I feel also watching The Valley

on Bravo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think Danny has emerged as our villain of the season. And so, like, whenever there's a good villain, you get really naturally invested. So, like, I'm all on board with the Valley. What are we thinking about Jack's new love life?

This whole thing with Jack's and his publicist, I actually don't understand why we're focusing on it. Like, I just, like, I don't know who this woman is. So it's like, Jacks has a new lady in his life. And so to me, I'm like, okay, that's fine. I think that Jacks is kind of like miserable piece of shit. So, like, I wish her the best. Like, good luck.

Good luck. I mean, his track record is literally terrible and it's gone back for like 12 or 14 years documented on television. And she's the one who was hired to actually make that track record look better. But now she's decided she wants to be part of it. So, yeah, it's like not really the win you think it is. Yeah. It's kind of like when you, I don't know if this is relatable to everyone in the room, maybe not marry, but it's kind of like when you like sleep with someone and they maybe have like a small penis

and then they get married and you're like, oh, you know, now you know like what that wife is working with and you're like, hmm. Like Jordan Didion said, I think. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, what do you think about Jackson and his new girlfriend? Well, I've known his new girlfriend for a long. time. Okay. She was friendly or worked with my, I guess, fiancee, my ex from the Bacheloredays. Okay. And that's kind of how

Lori got her start, which was to, you know, tell everyone she repped me and Vanessa. And yeah, she was just a very involved publicist who like not only like to be a publicist, but like to go to all the parties and, you know, really kind of immerse herself in the lives of the people she represented. So in that regard, it wasn't too surprising to hear that this was happening. But, you know, again, to your point, like, you know, God bless them. We wish them well. I wish them well, you know.

Like, listen, everyone deserves love. And if they truly love each other, then pop off. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Everyone deserves love. You just said God bless him in the way my dad does when he's, like, kind of pissed off. God bless him. God bless him.

God bless him. We're so happy for them. God bless him. Praying for them. Oh, I was just really excited to see if Ben has heard Cynthia Bailey's new housewife track. I, okay, I actually really like it. And I don't normally express this enthusiasm for a Bravo release song. But then when they played it on the reunion, I was like, this is kind of a bop.

The beat drop? Yeah, the beat drop. And so I immediately went on to Apple Music to find it. And I could not find it anywhere. I mean, what sort of release strategy is that? Right. We need to Spotify. Let me see if it's on Spotify.

I can find it. Apparently it's not out yet. She just teased it. How is it not out? That would have been a perfect time to have it out. I know we can't air it on the episode, but I haven't heard it. Can we play it? And I'd love to hear it.

It's basically just like an EDM track with Cynthia talking over it and then the beat drops. I feel like I'm going to love this. It's just, it works. Yeah. It's incredible because Cynthia Bailey lore, her man's is a like really, really talented like EDM musician. So for everybody listening They produced it together, I think

Things my wife and I don't have in common I fuck with some media and she does not I mean I feel like we have back to back Really strong Bravo musical releases this summer Baby Gorgeous is legitimately a good song I sing it all the time It honestly has like kind of really helped me Get through some stuff this time

As it should I'm not lying you guys All right well here's a little bit of the clip You gotta like it Lake Are you kidding me? It's so good It's really good

Pop in his Postal And his music is mine I know That's a really good song That was amazing Do you hear that little saxophone thing in the background too?

The whole version is gonna be crazy I have chills I have whole body chills Actually what I really love about that clip is I love that as they're all listening to it in real time They're like oh my God They're like this is really good

I'm like oh my god That's like a good beat. They are losing their mind. Yeah. I know exactly when I'm going to listen to this. Like, right? Well, so the twins are old enough that you can work, like the baby carriers. I love it because you can just like wear your little baby and you can get a lot of stuff done.

But like when when Natalie's putting a bit river to bed, I turn on some video games. And then I put on some usually Madonna. Love it. And I'm wearing one of the twins. And then I'm dancing because you have to, you have to bounce with the, you know, you got to keep the motion with twins. And so I'm playing video games with a bunch of like strange men. I bet Iris is so excited for this song too.

And now I know I'm definitely going to be listening to Cynthia Bailey wearing one of the twins while playing video games dancing in the in my. It's really good. It's really good. Yeah, we're going to need the nanny camp footage. I'm thinking like, I think that this could be like a whole bit I do like on Twitch where it's just like dad wearing twin listening to like, you know, EDM, girly pop Madonna. Anyways. While while dominating in Madden football. Yeah, that's a perfect combination.

What's everyone's favorite housewife song? Besides, obviously. The peach life? The peach life. I mean, I think I'm going to have to give it to good as gold. Oh, it's not a housewife song, but... The screamo version? No, no, no, no, Screamo.

No, it's so funny, I drove by that Emo Night place last night at the venue in Hollywood. And I saw it at Emo Night and I'm like, I will forever associate that with like Haiti and Sheena. Yeah. In terms of housewives adjacent, it's going to be good as gold. in terms of actual housewife songs, I think probably the best song as like a real song is drive back by Candace Dillard.

But I think in terms of like your enjoyment, sheikh Selevy by Countess Levin. Yes. It's my favorite. Yeah, more than elegance. I mean, the other one, the super famous one. Oh, Money Can't Buy You class.

Yeah. Speaking of Luanne, how are you feeling of Ultimate Girls Trip? You know, Ultimate Girls Trip, Like I am enjoying it as like a trifle But I'm not like swept away with it so far I think it's a lot of flashbacks and it's sort of it's a little bit like like oh Remember that time we went and got pizza and it's like five minutes of them eating pizza like that this time when Kyle ate pizza

Or then Luana ate pizza. It's just like a lot a lot a lot of flashbacks and it's like for me it is fun to see those flashbacks but I wanted to see more I want to see more like sort of interpersonal conflict with the group and as as opposed to like fun and games like dress up let's be silly but I thought the second episode was like much better than the first so I am optimistic

I mean obviously they've got the best the best mixing it up so it you know it will still be entertaining is there usually more drama because for me this feels light and fluffy and I'm like oh this is so cute like I like it but I haven't seen a previous season of it it's usually like five housewives iconic

housewives that but they're in a location so it's like they'll be in Bali in a house for it's like all stars a few weeks yeah for sure but is there like usually lots of tense drama? I mean they've had a mixed bag one had so much drama that I got shelved permanently Justin talks about it all the time the first one

Brandy Blanville yes release the tapes yeah no oh it's bad no it's bad it's not we're never seeing it but the first I loved loved loved the first one and there was conflict but you also had like high conflict people in there like Kenya more and Ramona Singer which was like I mean we were

so lucky that Bravo decided to put those two on the same cast together and like that one definitely went off and then there was the second one had conflict the third one was like a little it like it didn't quite find its footing is that Thailand Justin's favorite UGT season is it really the Thailand one

they did not really like that one one of the issues is that like they have a very short filming windows so they what I think they filmed for like maybe seven days or eight days. Oh, that's great. So they have to really like pull out all that footage. And like if they get stuff, then it's great.

And if they don't, then they're like, okay, like we have to do some fun in games to really make this stretch, you know? See, the thing I do really like about, especially this Ultimate Girls trip is that I do feel like housewives, a lot of people who don't watch housewives, right, just assume that it's just these like one dimensional rich women that just like to go at each other's throats and have no moral compass, no ethics, no nothing, where I'm like, I do like this because I feel like it is showing a different side to housewives, that they can be fun,

that they can be rooted in womanhood and want to like push each other to like support each other, where I'm just like, I feel like a lot of the seasons. It's just like, like, for example, my fiance won't watch Orange County with me at all.

He refers to them as the squawking birds because they're always yelling and screaming at each other. How dare he? I know, right? Women's stories matter. That's what I said. I think that I do like the fact that this one is a little bit more fluffy

or lighthearted just because I'm like, I do think that you need to see different sides. And for example, the Lisa Barlow moment. That was a nice moment. That was a nice moment. I was genuinely happy for her. Me too. She goes through it every single season on Salt Lake City. Now, I mean, sometimes

it's her own fault sometimes. I mean, you know, she goes like crazy. But like that had to have been like a really nice moment to be like, oh, wait a second. We're all laughing in this hotel room and no one's going to turn around and start accusing me of like being in 10 million lawsuits. Like a stick for court side tickets. Yeah.

I love that moment because, yeah, I mean, like, no one's been hunter on Lisa than me, but I'm turning into a Lisa Barlow apologist after meeting her at BravoCon. I love Lisa. She's great. Watching her have that moment and crying, it's just like, it just kind of reminded you of just what I'm sure is at times feels like the unattainable expectations of housewives. And like they're constantly basically like, their quarter zone must always be like, maxed out. You know, they obviously have an obligation to be dramatic and to give and to be messy.

And they're, like, they're rewarded by basically living in fear constantly about what people are going to see and say every episode. What are the blogs going to say? What kind of rumors are going to get spread about them? And to see Lisa be like, oh, it doesn't always have to be this way. And just to like let herself have fun, it was just like, oh, maybe we don't get to see this side of Lisa because her group of peers, and again, we love the show, we love the drama they give us, but like there doesn't seem to be a permission structure to have fun on that show. And now we're seeing a soft, like, I've never seen a softer side of Lisa that we got to see on Ultimate Girls Trip. And it was just like, you know what? They're human too. I just thought it was like,

it just, I reminded me of just like, you know, as much as like these women are being authentic, this is a job that is very hard to be successful in, and there is constant pressure with these women to keep giving and keep giving. And it's very much a what have you done for me lately business. And so it's easy to see how they fall in the trap of just constantly going at each other. And for Lisa to just have a little bit of fun

and have it to be so emotional for her was I thought just a really great moment. Yeah, I was happy for her. I was happy that she got to just actually enjoy. I'm actually just really happy for her that she got to be on this show because Lisa has this sort of strange role on Salt Lake City where she's not really a villain.

She's sort of a villain. She's also not really the protagonist, but she's considered iconic on that show. But I think we all assume that if there's going to be a representative of Salt Lake City on this, it was going to be Heather Gay. And so the fact that they gave it to Lisa

was, I think, kind of like, inspired. And I think, like, I'm, like, happy for her because whether she, like, whether she starts fights or not, or whether like, you know, she's giving herself a good edit in her mind. You know that like what she's thinking is like, I get no respect. She's like the Rodney Dangerfield.

Salt Lake City. And she's always like, no one ever pays attention to me. I get no respect. I can't do anything else. I guess every single episode, just like that. And then Bravo's like,

we want to put you on this like high profile reunion show that's celebrating the best, the best of the housewives. And you get to be a main cast member. I was actually genuinely happy for her. Yeah. That they like, they chose her of all the people.

you know and so I am happy and I don't necessarily need these shows to be like fight fight fight fight fight fight fighting screaming like some sort of like producer driven conflict but what I like and what I liked about that first girl trip and my favorite shows on Bravo in general is when it's just sort of like the friction of like people coming from different backgrounds and we saw that in the second episode with countess Luann and Vicki and Candice is like she's like this is not my person and like I love those moments, those very real moments of like when you're stuck with someone and you're like, oh, I don't like this person. It doesn't have to be a fight.

It's just like, oh, we're not viving at all, you know? And I think getting to see some of these cast members without their castmates around, it's like getting to see their actual personalities where it's just like, Giselle is Giselle as Giselle can ever be. Vicky is Vicky. And even to see those two come at it where she was like, it's a conversation. She's like, I'm not doing this with you. And it's just like, but this is also, by the way.

Like Lisa, Lisa is the only one in this group who hasn't like really been on one of these spin-offs before, right? Like everyone else at this point has done some girls trips or has just been on other shows or spin-off shows. And Lisa is like, she is like the freshman and she is in here and she has no idea what's going on in a way that's like really charming. Yeah. Yeah. Baby gorgeous. She's just baby gorgeous. Her energy is magic.

The conversation between Vicky and Kyle when Kyle is. crying over the 30 year anniversary. And she's like, yeah, you ruined your family. You ruined your kid's lives. You're the worst mother. That was amazing. See, those are the moments I love. That's Vicky.

Yeah, that's Vicky. That was interesting. Vicki, her tone is like, oh, sweetie, like, stop being hard on yourself. But her words are like, you should be hard on yourself. I was really confused watching it. I was like, wait, did I miss hear that? And then I was like, no, that's exactly how it was. It was very, which I kind of respect Vicky for, I don't know.

It's almost like she's like, she's being genuine. She's so real. Vicky is the ultimate. I'm just being honest, girl. I'm just being honest, you know. So you guys think that she's being like a good amount kind of of messy with the group? Or do you think she's being a little too mean to people? Is it a vibe killer?

It's a real housewives. There's no such thing as too. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like if we didn't have Vicky being Vicky in this episode, it would be almost just a little too nostalgic and it'll just a little. little too me. Yeah. And like it's,

Vicky drama is this, it always feels so unsurious because she's so matter of fact about our opinions about just like whatever. Everything. And it's this hard not to chuckle because the way she delivers her criticism, it's,

I don't know, I just can't get enough of it. It's, yeah. And that's what, so I really like those moments. I like that she had this moment with Kyle where she was so giving this

like very clumsy, you know, reassurance. And that's what I live for with any of the real housewives. And so when I'm less into are silly fun and games. Like the scavenger hunt like did nothing for me. Like I don't want to waste time for like 10 minutes of the show,

watch them run around Sun's house. I didn't want to, I didn't need them to dress up for Bunko. You know, I want like interpersonal like reactions and moments like that because there's usually a lot of like unexpected comedy that comes out of it. Like I want my comedy to come from Vicky sort of undermining Kyle in a vulnerable moment. I don't want my comedy coming from like knocking something over while you're running to like let a mouse go out of a cage.

Yeah. It's like. Teresa confronting Vicky and then Vicki being like, oh my God, look at the clothing store. And it was just like, huh? Yeah. But like such a Vicky moment. But that came from Vicky. It was like an innate Vicky moment. It's like, of course Vicky would do that as those distraction out there or like, or Teresa having this like very, very delayed like one day reaction.

Like that's where like the fun of the show is for me. And also hearing their criticisms kind of of each other where obviously it's not serious. But it's just like even Vicky calling out the fact that Countess Luann did take a bite of a kebab and put it on her page. She said, then you write a thing about manners and ethics? And it's just like, wait, you did. And also the idea that Countess Luan was like, well, I took a bite and I didn't have a plate. So I put it on yours. It's like, what?

Well, she was holding a plate, mind you. Yeah. Was she? Yeah, they like showed it in the beginning. And then as she's saying it, they cut it out of the shop. But I was like, she's literally holding a plate. Wait, that is so funny. Isn't it funny with Vicky?

is that doesn't it feel like Vicky is a little bit out of sync with the whole group? Yeah, she does. Like Vicky has been out of the game a little bit. She's been a friend of and everything. But like it feels like everyone sort of has a vibe of like how they're supposed to like be in these scenes. Like we're girlfriends. And Vicki has like no idea how to be the like slumber party thing. Like she has no idea.

And so Vicky is almost in that Ramona singer role from that first girl's trip where Ramona was so awkward and got into fights with everyone. And now Vicky is like in this awkward. I don't know how to relate to people role, but she feels like everyone she relates to her because she's like the OG. And she's awesome because Vicky will be just as mad about, you know,

the worst thing that's ever happened to her or if like you have a little like piece of string on your shoulder. Yeah. Or if you don't pay her taxes. Like it's the same reaction regardless. And she's just great. But, oh, Crystal being in episode Beverly Hills,

what are your thoughts? First of all, I love that they brought Crystal of all people as like the featured housewife on this scene, that was pretty cool. I would love Crystal to come back onto Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. There's rumors that she's going to be on it. Those rumors that absolutely she's not going to be. But I think like Crystal was so like she was generally quiet on Beverly Hills.

She had some moments where she would like, she was front and center, but then she would sort of like retire out of it. And you're like, oh, okay. Well, Crystal, she was like an okay housewife, but whatever. But then after Housewives, we discovered that she had. has this huge personality and she's very funny and she's very cutting and she does have like some very serious opinions. So I'm like, I kind of want her to go back in and kind of shake up Beverly Hills because Beverly Hills can get kind of like stale sometimes. And I wonder if she decides to

come back. I got to assume that, you know, she's aware whatever criticism she received in the past and she must feel more confident. I think so. To show her most authentic self where, you know, it's got to be very intimidating. I mean, I'm sure Beverly Hills is one of the more. intimidating franchise to come into having, you know, so many OG characters being one of the, like, the legacy franchises. But I would imagine if Crystal comes back, she'll probably come out guns ablazing in a great way. I think, because I feel like Beverly Hills has like a hierarchy, and they really lean into that. And she came in and she was trying to respect the hierarchy. And, I mean, she said on her show like that, she sort of felt that social pressure to sort of stay

in line. And I think now she has some wind in her sales because she has a whole new audience. and she's seen how fun it is to just like talk shit as a podcaster. And like she's like, you know, fuck this. I'm going to go in. And like I hope that she does go back and she calls people out. And if Kyle Richards tries to sort of pull like rank and file like this is how we do things, she's like, I don't care. Like this is what I see.

This is what I feel. I would love that. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I think the great thing about Crystal 2 is like, I got a direct line to a couple of Crystal's podcast producers. and she'll talk shit on Humble Brat Yeah, yeah, she will And she'll, yeah, if she ends up

going back to Beverly Hills, like, I cannot wait to see, like, the, the crystal that's, like, developed, like, on her podcast with Cynthia. And, like, Cynthia has just been, like, such a great, like, support system for her. They balance each other so well. And then, like, you get to see Crystal

potentially if she decided, or, I don't know. Like, it would just be so cool. Why was there no one from Miami? You know, that's a perpetual question I have generally on Bravo, which is like, why are we not getting more respect for Miami? I think Alexia would have been perfect. Although Alexia is also kind of like Teresa, so it may have been like a duplicate. But like you could have thrown like a Lisa Hoxton in there or a Marisol.

Marisol and her cockies. Marisol would be the Vicky. You just can't beat. Do you like this sweet pussy comment? I don't know. Adriana. Adriana, actually, Adriana would have been fantastic on this.

Yes. Do you know that, by the way, I was in Miami in February with my co-host Ronnie and we ran into Lisa Hoxene on the street with Jody. Wow. And we took a photo.

We're like, we got to take a selfie and we took a selfie. And she's like, I'll do it, I'll do it. And so she took the selfie. We're like, oh my God, we got a picture of Lisa Hoxstein. And we're like, Lisa, send us the photo. She has never sent us our group selfie to this day.

She did it on her. Lisa, if you're listening. What? Lisa? I'm using your platform. I'm using your platform to get through a Lisa. To get that photo. Send that photo, please.

Well, if Crystal does come back, we get to look forward for the audience to confuse Sutton and Crystal because according to Vicky, can't tell the difference. Oh, I know. I love that. I love that. She thought she was talking to Sun the entire time just talking to Crystal. That's awesome. Speaking of Vicky, do you guys want to talk OC? Honestly, this episode, like the fight with Shannon and the room.

I was like, this feels so season one. Like we're fighting over what rooms we got. Come on, ladies. I mean, I always love when Shannon goes on a downward spiral. And at first I thought, I was like, okay, Shannon's doing a bit. She's like, oh, the elevator. I don't hear the elevator. But then I was like, oh, I think actually she is concerned that her brain is getting fried right now.

And then that was like very funny to me. Like my favorite part about Shannon Madore is that a lot of times she tries. she tries to sort of like put on a persona of like, I'm funny Shannon Bador. And then she's like crying five minutes later. Yeah, because her inner pain is like coming out and her neuroses. I have concerns about the season of Orange County.

I wanted it to be great for its 20th, but. You don't think it's going to be? It's been struggling a little bit. I think it's been. You don't believe that Heather's upset about Gina and Emily sharing rooms after eight years? Yeah. You cannot tell me that Heather Dubrow,

who bragged about living next door to Drake, is like, oh my God. I wish that Gina accepted me in her heart. I'm like, no. Like, Heather B. Bro is in a different tier. She doesn't care. Could you imagine the day that Heather Dubrow's like, I'll share a room with?

Yeah. I mean, I actually think that Heather's story of like trying to find a buddy is a really fascinating one because that's something that we have not seen as like a storyline on housewives. And I think that's like actually such a human thing. Yeah. You know, I've been that person. I'm like, wow, everyone has a buddy. I don't have my buddy.

You know, like we've all been in that situation. So I love that. But like, does Heather, has Heather Debrough really, like, pining to, like, be buddies with Jen Padrante?

Yeah. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. Well, it's also, like... She has no options. Yeah. She has no options on that show. Well, it's like,

the other thing is, like, Emily and Gina, do you believe that they were genuinely upset with each other? No, 100% not. I'm like, girls. They got so much flack for being, like,

oh, my God, Emily, I think they were, like, trying to show, like... Yeah. No, we're not monolith. Gina's like, no, I'm like mad at Emily. And it's like, I don't believe her for one second.

Yeah. They made up so quickly. Yeah. It was either really healthy communication or fabricated. Yeah. It's fabricated. What about Carmelo? What are your thoughts on the new girl?

Really? I have not. I think she's fine. She's fine so far. I like how she holds her own in a group. I think her home scenes are a little dull so far. I thought we'd get to see Jeff Garcia. We haven't gotten to see Jeff Garcia.

Yeah, I really want a Jeff Garcia setting. When she said I was married to Jeff Garcia, I was like, oh my God, Jeff Garcia. Yeah, same reaction. I feel like they are being like really mean to her, and I feel like I would like her to stand up for herself just a little bit more. She's a little bit like what she's sort of saying like, no, no, you have every right to say that. I'm like, no, they don't have every right to say that. Gina was an asshole to you and like you shouldn't just be like, oh, no, it's fine. I understood.

You didn't know me. So I understand. Like, no. Or like, right. A little bit of feathers. Yeah. Like they put you in a room with Vicky who's calling you a liar. And I'd be like, why am I bunking with somebody who hates me?

Yeah. Especially what I really didn't like was Gina, who last year we saw like showing like a one bedroom house in a retirement community shading Carmela who's like showing off like a $13 million house. Yeah. I was like no, Gina. Well, then it's also like Gina being so mad about Carmela giving Jen like an opportunity. It's just like what does that have to like it's one thing. It's like, yeah, you can like talk shit about your. friend giving your like nepo friends whatever getting a job that they like don't technically have the

backing for but also it's like why do you care i feel like you know understand the assignment of like you got to speak your mind to be honest but like sometimes the things that she's speaking your mind about i'm like you know what i'm not going to be mad about somebody giving me a dior bag or giving my friend a dior bag i don't care if you've got three grand to give away a casual gift to someone you don't really know with no insurance that anything's coming back to you be my guess hello yeah it's like She's just trying to create something. My birthday's in September. Yeah.

We're always asking the rich to give back, you know. Yeah. Isn't it crazy though? The Carmelo through the vibrators and the garbage? I know. Amazon has a great return policy. I don't know why. I also have a great return policy.

Yeah. So it's like, is that ethical to. Return a vibrator? Do you recycle a vibrator? What is Amazon's policy on returning vibrators? That's a really good question. Abused? Yeah.

Yeah. That's like. I'm sure they could. So many questions here. But Costco, you can return anything, even a vibrator. Is Costco so? That's a great question. I'm sure they will at some point.

I thought the whole thing was if they sell everything from life to death. You would think BJs would. Diapers to caskets. Bed, bath, and beyond. And are they called vibrators or are they called massage therapy? Intimate massage. Personal massagers. Most vibrators and adult novelties on Amazon are classified as non-returnable hygiene health

items, meaning you generally cannot return them once. That makes sense. However, if the item is defective, damaged, or incorrect, you may still be eligible for a refund. What if it's defective by overuse? It broke after two years. The motor ran out. Yeah. Yeah.

Honestly, I respect that, Amazon. I think that's a good policy. Yeah, they have to draw some lines somewhere. Yeah. You know, let's be honest. I don't know. But well, Carmella, sorry you how to throw away all those vibrators. Yeah.

I think she seems okay right now. I don't think she's, I don't think she's, like, amazing. You know, the thing is, isn't it so exciting when someone, you know, comes on to one of the real house live shows and you know immediately like oh they found one they got one like Bronwyn on Salt Lake City they're like oh they got one even I mean Monica before her flame out I was like they found another one all these shows I even thought on Miami I thought Stephanie was really good so it's always so exciting when they find like a really someone who just gels and pops and so that's why I'm like with Carmel I'm like she seems fine but um like she's not like

lighting up the screen for me so far. How did you feel about Amanda Francis not returning? Because I really enjoyed her. Maybe she didn't quite gel with her cast, but I just really enjoyed how she, it was just a different vibe. And I feel like that show needs some new fresh vibes. So I was very sad to see her not come back.

But I'm curious what you thought about that. I was shocked that when I learned the news, I was like, oh, I was shocked that I sort of had this moment. And they're like, oh, that's too bad. Because I did love how she annoyed them all. Like, they didn't know what to do with her. Like this extreme millennial person who's, like, ordering ceremonial macha. And they're like, what?

She's like, now's the time to journal. And they are like, they just are like looking at each other. Like, who is this person? So I enjoyed that element. Amanda was also very ridiculous. And I love that in a housewife. I love a housewife who sort of has some bullshit around them. I love someone who believes their shit.

like they're just like a little bit of delusion. So she sort of had like a nice mix. She was absolutely ridiculous. But like we need that on the show because sometimes on Beverly Hills, if they don't have anyone that like makes them a little uncomfortable, they kind of just like they do sort of like ossify a little bit. And then they're just like, you know, then they just sort of have scenes of like luncheons and dinners.

And it's good when someone can kind of like upset them. And I sometimes I feel conspiratorially that like, Kyle will sort of have an idea of like, this is the way the season's going to go, and this is what the storyline is going to be, and this is how it's all going to happen. And when someone sort of shakes it up, and it's like, no, it's not going to happen that way.

The show sort of comes alive. That's kind of why I really hope that Crystal ends up going back. Because, like, I think if there's one way to, like, shake it up, it would be kind of like the unexpected, like, return. But you know what, Doreet is on one right now. I'm loving this Doree. Like, I mean, Doree is a total asshole.

But, you know, Doree called out. Kyle, she said, like, I think you're upset because you want to produce the show. And like, she's the first one to blatantly say that. And all the fans have believed that. So I think that's like a great energy to bring into the next season. And I sort of heard rumor has it that she's filming the season. She better be. Yeah.

Like there's a whole, like, a bunch of people were saying like whether or not she was going to be put on pause or if she's not coming back next season, which I was like, I feel like we're in the height or like the depth of Kyle and Doree. Yeah. Why would she ever be put on pause? And in fact, if she's put on pause, it would look terrible. for Kyle. She was filming at Eric's house apparently. A little birdie told me.

What's the latest with the divorce? Is that still going on? Are PK and her still accusing each other of ruining each other's lives? Yeah. They just had something last week. Yeah, I was going to say, I have a feeling where this is going to be going on for years. Didn't boy George kind of get into it too? Yeah.

Yeah. Boy George weighed in, which is we like... Karma chameleon. Yeah. I don't know if we need. She's like, do you really want to hurt me? Do you really want to hurt me? Do you want to really want to see me cry? I can actually imagine her saying that to him.

You really want to see me cry. P.K. You really would have hurt me. Do you know what I always think about is Doreet's first season when she had a party at her house? She had a big party and like the big surprise was that boy George was going to be performing. And so they had boy George set up behind this giant curtain. And they had this curtain in their living room up. So the way they explained it to their guest was, sorry, we have this curtain up because we're having a mold issue.

Could you imagine like you're having a part? You're like, there's just lethal mold on the other side of that. Nobody breathed in. The worst excuse. But enjoy your dinner. Right. But it turns out the mold was boy George. The mold was boy George.

It's been a lot of fun, Ben. Always fun talking Bravo with you. Before we let you go, what are you most excited about Bravo-wise and the upcoming fall lineup? Salt Lake City. It's always Salt Lake City in the fall these days. And I'm assuming Potomac will be like not far behind. I'm assuming Potomac's going to take over the girls' trip slot on the Sunday nights. So I am really excited for Salt Lake City and quite frankly I'm a bit curious about

the Roney reboot because I did not like the original reboot from from the jump. I did not like it and the trailer for the new Roney actually looked like pretty good. So I'm really really excited. They really have to get that right. They have to. It's like do or die time and it looks it looks like they might have the right idea about it. I think they are moving hopefully away from like aren't these ladies fabulous to like aren't these ladies delusional which is what the original rony was built off of yeah did you see the rumors that they're searching for some housewives in montana you know what i just saw that on on x last night that that was trending and i i haven't read anything about it yet but that would be i think that would be really good i think yeah because there's a lot of there's a lot of money up there

a lot of money and uh obviously very kind of like i imagine it would be easy for them to be very out of touch because it's like they're in Montana. They're kind of in their own world. Have all this money. I could see that being. Yeah, capitalize on the whole yellow stone. Yeah. You know,

all those shows and all that interperson drama. What was that show with the Hunting Wives? Yeah, exactly. And like, so I think that Bravo put the McBee Dynasty on to try to cash in on this like Taylor Sheridan, you know, movement with all these shows. And I think McBee Dynasty sucks. Same.

And I think if they do real housewives of Montana, that way they can kind of get that rancher, cowboy, wealthy life. But it actually fits with Bravo as opposed to McBee, which just feels like a USA show that got like just slapped into. I do you think they have to be careful, though, because it just reminds me of the downfall of Dallas. Because I'm like if the whole thing is just like them throwing charity events and like. Do you think it would be that though? Because I wonder if there's like the sauce with Rhode Island was how insulated of a community, Rhode Island is and you go to Montana that's the same that's like even more

isolation of just them knowing each other I think that it would actually be probably closer to like Salt Lake City as probably a bunch of like women who have like different ranches or whatever or like whatever whatever happens up there I'm like I don't know but I can imagine

I feel like it wouldn't be so much about charity but by the way I would also love a Dallas reboot I love Real Housewives of Dallas I thought it was great It didn't get me I need to watch it again, but I know when I watched it. I don't know if you ever made it. Season one was like a little rough.

Season two was one of the best seasons of all. I don't think I made it to season two. That's the thing. If you make it to season two, anyone who makes it to season two of Dallas, it's like a whole new show. And it is hilarious. It's hilarious.

Leanne Lockin, accusing Carrie Duber's husband of getting blow jobs at the gay bar. Oh my God. See? Okay, I'll revisit. No, I was like, if I had to watch them decorate hats, I was like, I'm going to lose it.

No, no, that first, because I think that first season of Dallas was actually supposed to be a whole different show. and then they re they sort of like reframed it as a housewife show and anytime they do that on bravo with the exception of potomac you can always tell it's not quite right and doesn't quite land right but like Dallas check it out I'll revisit yeah revisit Ben always fun having you on please come back anytime please let our audience know I'm sure many of them already do

they're already big fans of your show but if by some miracle they're not aware of what you are doing where can people find you well first of all thanks for having me back it's always fun to chop it up with you guys. I'm part of Watch What Crappins, which is a daily Bravo podcast, although we do some offshoot some offshoots onto random things like Game of Thrones, because like, why not? And you can find Watch What Crappins at Watch What Crappens on IG. I'm at Ben Mandelker, and we are going to be going on tour soon. So keep tabs on it because we may be coming to a city near you, but that will be announced

pretty soon. Hell yeah. Ben, always a pleasure, man. Thanks for coming. Thank you so much for having me. Good to see you. All right. Well, that will do it for today's episode.

Thank you to our guest, Whitney Carson and Ben Mandelcler. We appreciate them and appreciate you guys for listening. If you haven't listened to the Going Deeper episode with the Double Lives of Suburban Wives, be sure to check it out. It is definitely a doozy, very fascinating conversation with some moms who are adult content creators. It will blow your mind and certainly fascinate you. So check that out. Otherwise, we will be back next week.

Thanks for listening. Bye-bye.