The Viall Files - E1181 - Married At First Sight Reunion w/ Shawn & Nikki, Brooks Marks Talks Next Gen NYC

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  It's Natalie's birthday, Brooks Marks is on the couch, and the MAFS reunion fallout is fully underway! Brooks gets into Next Gen NYC, Meredith, Bravocon, Charlie, Shai, Ava, the reunion, and more. Later, Nikki and Shawn from Married At First Sight sit down separately to explain what went wrong, what they regret, and what "wifely duties" really are... You won't want to miss it! "It's exhausting watching someone hurt the people I care about with little or no remorse..." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/    Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Better Help: Sign up and get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/viall  Kalshi: Download the Kalshi app and use code VIALL to get $20 when you trade $20. Nutrafol: Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit https://nutrafol.com and enter promo code VIALL. Quince: Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://quince.com/viall. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro 0:20 - Natalie's Birthday 21:04 - Brooks Marks Joins 54:10 - Married At First Sight Recap 1:00:36 - Nikki Joins 1:27:30 - Sean Joins 2:07:41 - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nataliejoy @brooksmarks @nikkiconnoisseur @drshawnbest @susiecevans @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @baybaeee

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Valfiles reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the birthday girl herself, my wife, Allie Joy. Woo! Happy birthday! She's over the big, y'all, y'all. She is old as the hills. 28.

Wow, that is crazy. Goodness gracious. Oh, my goodness. I saw some pictures from a little birthday celebration this weekend. Happy early birthday this year. Her birthday is tomorrow. Well, it would be today if you're listening. Yeah.

Thank you. They're both today, in a way. I'm older than the hill that Natalie is old on. Yes. Right. I know. I was like calling out her being old. I'm like, as I'm several years older.

Yeah. Anyway, just forget I said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's cool. It's cool. I turn to dust. Susie is also with us today. How you doing, Susie?

Good. I also celebrated other people's birthdays this weekend. There's so many birthdays happening. Does anyone else feel that way? It's the world of Virgo's. You know, I think, you know, there's a lot of people in the cold of winter who embrace their partner with love and affection and, you know, eight to nine months later. My mom told me it was a birthday present for my dad and I was like, that's more than I needed to know. You know, his birthday is December 10th.

Okay. He was a happy man. I do hate being reduced down to a New Year's Eve party that went while. Yeah. Yeah. But like going back, like in a way that in a way, in a way that means you. you're a miracle. It kind of implies that for a moment, like your parents weren't like hooking up

because your dad was a pain in the ass, but it was his birthdays. Your mom was like, fuck it. Fine. I will. His present. Wait, that's so true. And any other day, it wouldn't have happened because, like, they weren't hooking up. And so here you are the miracle baby.

So true. Way to spin it, honey. Yeah. I love that. We've had a rager of a weekend. We're up at the lake. So Lake Nick is out. he's wearing shorts, he's wearing flip-flops.

He's eating a lot of sugar. I had a lot of sugar this weekend. Yeah. I saw River on the C-Doo. So cute, guys. That was actually the sweetest moment ever. You know, it's really great right now. Like, being at the lake, every time I'm here, I always have, like, a fond of appreciation of life.

Or just, like, what's in my, going on my world. But, you know, I bought this house, like, right when we found out River was, now that's pregnant with River. So, like, there's always, you know, it was like a perfect time of like, you know, fantasizing about, okay, I'm going to have a kid, you know, having the lake. It's somewhat, it was such about my childhood. I hope my child connects with the lake, yada, yada, yada. And so River's been up here, I don't know, 10, 12. I don't know.

I don't know how many times, plenty. But she's so young that every time she comes up here, and I don't know how long it'll last, maybe another year. But every time she comes up here, it's like the first time again. And you know what I'm saying? Like it's she's starting to have memories of it. But everything, you know, we do a lot of new stuff. And we have, we did some landscape and there's a playground, you know. And so it's so cool.

Like my like my like happiest place in the world like to see her like experience for the first time. Like it's the best groundhogs day a father could have. It's really great. That's really beautiful. Oh, that's so nice. She's so much fun up here. I also think it will last for a long time. Like I remember going to my parents, my dad's side of the family had a lakehouse when we were younger.

And it was always magical. Like it never got old because we didn't go. It wasn't like we lived there. It was like always magical. That's how I feel like too. She's going to, it's like different. You know, it's like everything's, everything. I kind of made it where everything here is kind of the same as home just so it's like familiar enough.

You know, like she's got the same big girl bed. she's got kind of the same I don't know the same vibe of stuff but it's all like different toys and so every time she comes she's like oh my gosh and she opens up like a new drawer

or a cabinet or something well I mean it'll eventually change but my hope it changes to like can we go to the lake you know like it becomes it it cements is this magical place for them as well that they're always excited

you know like I mean even to this day when we're driving and we're about you know at the lakes it's a decent drive from the airport to the lakehouse. But even like as a kid, that was the first road trip where I was like, are we there yet, right?

And so it's a long enough drive either way. And when we pull up to the lake, I have that same feeling of excitement and like, fuck yeah, we're here. Like when I was the same feeling when I was a kid, even now every time I show up. So my dream, obviously, my children have a similar excitement every time they pull into the lake.

And I'm just saying like right now, she's so young that like she's like it there's a real an actual look of like this is the coolest this is new this is the coolest thing and I get to I get to watch it on her face at some point four or five eight you know when she starts I hope it turns into that enthusiasm that I have yeah I think it will I'm sure cool yeah how was your birthday so far we we celebrate we had Victoria and Geneviva up here at the lake we did and we it was We got here Friday and the weather was chef's kiss perfect. So amazing. Saturday, rained all day. And then yesterday it was like pretty gloomy all day. So it didn't get the like I wanted to be tubing and out on the water and that kind of vibe, which you know, can't control mother nature. But other than that, it was honestly the most fulfilling birthday, I think. You know when you just feel like I just kind of like looked around. I have my three girls like my husband. I've got great. in-laws, good friends, I was good food. You know, it just like, you just feel very fulfilled.

And that's kind of how I felt. I was just like, I took a deep breath and was like, wow, I'm just finally at a place in life where I'm like, I feel very grateful. Like, I don't need anything. I don't want anything. I'm just good. That's such a healthy place to be. I mean, yeah, people want. Never thought I'd be here. I want so much. But really, it's like just as simple as that sounds. It's like just having good people surrounding you is such a cornerstone of like having a good life. Truly. It's been great. And then, oh, boy. Oh, my gosh. No, I didn't know what you're going. But like, hey, this, you know, being here definitely helps me try to, like, unwind. The only challenge I have at the lake is, like, I want to be up here more. And obviously, we have a

fully fledged out studio here. So the challenge has been, like, in living here, which, and I have to work because, like, vacation, Nick really wants to come out. And it's, like, a little. And it's, like, little, I'm mentally am trying to figure out how to, how to do both here. It's a little bit of an emotional fuck. But in the spirit, in the spirit of it, like, grounding me. And for all the discourse that is like parenting is hard that's going on the internet right now, I had a moment with my two young, well, I don't forget which one it was, Dover Iris, you know, but I was holding one of them. And, you know, like she was, you know, the newborn, you know what it reminded me because like it does when we had Dr. Curry on and she was talking about like a baby crying

literally is like it, it's, it literally triggers. It is meant to like trigger a nervous system. That when I was on special forces and the final phase where they're literally torturing you and they put like headphones on your head and they place noises that like they'll drive you create, chalkboard, babies, like infants crying was one of them. Anyway. So it's just like,

it is like, it is like a difficult sound. So, but when your newborn is crying, bear with me. Anyways, I was holding her on my chest. And when your newborn's crying,

it's very easy for it to rattle you. And there's this whole kind of like, you know, you're trying to get them calm, but they're also triggering you. It's a difficult, you know, moment.

And like with, but every once in a while, I have the mindfulness to like be like my daughter needs me. And I will like deliberately like try to like close my eyes, meditate, take a big breath and slow my breath down. And like nine times out of 10, I feel my like baby daughter like slow her breath down and calm down. And it's just like a great moment. I'm sure a lot of parents have done that already. But if it was it was just like, you know, because usually it's just like, I feel my breathing, like, amplify when my daughter's, you know, crying because it gets you worked up.

But every once in a while, I, like, remember, you know, I'm the parent here. My daughter needs me. And I, like, I close my eyes. I slow my breath down. And it really is, it's, it's, it, it, I, I, I used to do that with River. I kind of forgot about it. And I was reminded of it over the weekend. Love that.

Friendly reminder. Friendly reminder. Anyway, I don't know, maybe, you know, whatever. No, that's a good point. I can also go fuck myself. Well, before we get back to Natalie in her amazing birthday, we do have a jam-packed episode. We have Brooks Marks. Important that it's Brooks Marks because I spent a lot of time trying to convince Brooks-Marx that going forward, he should only introduce himself for Brooks-Marx.

Very charming individual, the son of the iconic Meredith Marks. He is with us in studio to talk about NextGen and his experience as a young TV star on Bravo. Then we also have, now that the Meredith First Site reunion is in the... can, as they say. We'll have the opportunity to interview some of your favorite contestants on married at first. Starting with one of the more iconic couples, Sean and Nikki. They are not with us together, but we have a little he said, she said going on this episode. And so they are also later this episode. So it is definitely jam packed. All right now back to you. I'm sorry, your birthday. The floor's yours. Natalie, tell us what happened. Tell us how you felt over the

weekend. I felt very loved. Loved. I felt very loved. Nick and Nick did make everyone go around the table and say their favorite thing about me. Yep, I know. I know she loved that game. His dad gave me the best compliment, which was like, you are such a great mom. Like, your patience balances, like,

the amount of strict that you, like the balance beam that you play with being strict, but also being patient is, like, is very good. And I was like, oh my God, coming from you with 11 kids. What a compliment. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Yeah, 11 kids. Yeah. He's seen it all. He knows it all, babes. They've done a lot of parenting. It's crazy. But apparently Victoria said she had to hold your hand throughout my whole birthday weekend. Is that true?

She was very helpful. Love it when friends do that. It's so funny. Sometimes it's a little annoying, but it is funny when they're like, yeah, just so you know, like, I was on the phone with him the entire time. And it's like, girl, I know. I said. Literally, Nick. I booked everything.

Out of nowhere yesterday, Nick's like, I have to go to the store. And like, by store, there's not a lot of stores running here. he's going up to the gas station. That's right up the street. And so I'm like, okay. So then he leaves. And I look at Victoria, I'm like, bitch, what is he? You know, where is he going?

And she's like, I don't know. You know, she has been a locked seal this entire time. She knew what gift he got me. They had gone shopping together. I was prying pick. She would not tell me. And so I'm like, where is he going? She's like, I don't know.

I'm like, he's going to get candles, isn't he? And she's like, I don't know. I've never thrown a party here up at the last. lake. And he was in fact going to get candles. And I guess she had been telling you to get candles. She told you to get balloons. She was very helpful. Right. Thank God because it was, it was. She's a woman. She's a woman and it was exciting. There was, yeah, it wasn't expecting balloons and or candles. The birthday, that's not my love language. So I know the help I can get. Did I nail it? English? I know. He's struggling.

today. Why are you struggling to talk today? I said English. I said it's not my love language. I know. I said English. Yeah. Because it was hard for you to get that sentence out. Yeah. Okay. Wait, are we, are we allowed to know what you got for your birthday? Was it a birthday slash like push present or was it strictly birthday? No, it was definitely birthday push present. Push present, including pushing two out for sure. Yes. It didn't even need to be said. Yeah. I didn't. It didn't. It was very much. much known. Yes. He got me a Rolex. I know. I was crying, sobbing, Puking River was like, Mommy's sad. I'm like, no, I'm so happy. I've never been up here. Yeah, very, very shocking, was not expecting that. I knew Victoria had said that to him and I knew his response was like,

absolutely not. There's just no way in hell. And I think I read the text message back to her that said that. And so I was like, okay, perfect. And she was like, no, there's, and anyone who knows Victoria, she's very persistent. And she was like, there's nothing else. Like, literally, what else would he get you? I mean, like, you pushed out two babies and it's your birthday. You deserve this. And I'm like, you are right. I need a friend like Victoria. Truly. Yeah, right. Wow. Is she busy? Because I have a birthday tomorrow. Yeah, no, she's free. You can call her. She's free. I was like, if there's anyone who could get this out of Nick, it would be her.

Wow. God bless Victoria. Yeah. She did. Crazy. Beautiful. I love that. But I heard that Nick was like very, I am wearing it. I heard that Nick was very like uncomfortable and resistant throughout the whole process, which I think is just very great gift. Very Nick and very funny. Just drink the glass of champagne, put your card down and shut up. Don't think about it. Exactly. I text her. I must be obsessed with you. He did text me that. When he went to go pick it up, he texted me, I must be obsessed with you. And I was like, oh my God, what could this be? And then I asked Victoria, I said, why did he have to go and pick it up?

This is me just being crazy. I'm like, why did he have to go pick it up? I thought y'all were out shopping. Like, didn't he just get it that day? And she was like, logistics. And I'm like, logistics. So then I'm like, what the hell? I was really spiraling.

She thought I got her a bracelet. Yeah, I thought, I just didn't know. I was really trying to figure it out. Wow. I know. Have you ever had a fake excitement for a surprise, for a birthday gift you didn't love? But you knew that you thought they, that they thought they, thought they nailed it.

Yeah. You have? I think, yeah. Yeah, I was like, I think as a woman. I feel like often. What are you talking about? Yeah. Every other day?

No. It's called an orgasm. Honestly, I feel like I've been faking excitement for gifts, like since I was a kid. Right? Yeah. I never want anyone to feel bad. Yeah. Well, I think we really kind of taught that too that it's like rude to be like, I don't

like that or to comment anything. It's like you take it. it graciously and then you either return it or you are you live with it which i kind of like that but knowing how much of a lift this was did were you were you like i have to cry no it wasn't i didn't even i mean i didn't even cross my mind it was like an immediate wait jenovinev and victoria were like videoing me and it was an immediate reaction of like tears because it was just so this man is so frugal he is literally like we're not spending money on anything ever again. One appreciates in value.

Yeah, so true. Wait, Sierra, what do you think Connor's gonna get you for your birthday? Have you dropped any hints? Do you have a friend? Is Sarah like holding his hands? Is it a big love language? It is.

I did not push two babies out in the last couple of months. I'm going to Disneyland and staying overnight. That's your dream. That's so fun. It is my thing. So, yeah, we're doing a cute little thing. A staycation at Disney.

You know what I did ask for? Yeah. I did ask for a standing mixer. What's that? It's like a kitchen aide, like, one of the, like, big ones with all the attachments and stuff, because I'm really in my baking era. You're really in your baking era. She's still baking.

Wow. And I saw a big box, so I know he goes. Sierra, you got to come up to the, you can kind of got to come up to, like, my mom is, like, a baking extraordinaire apparel. You guys could really. Wow. Oh, we could make some magic. I could do some really cool things together.

It'd really be all right. No. I'm obsessed. It's so much fun. Are you beyond the sourdough now and it's, like, other things? It's not in sourdough. I haven't even started my starter, but it's like I did this garlic cheese pole bread. I've made these milk buns and like everything just takes a lot of time. But like when it turns out, I did cinnamon rolls the other day from scratch.

Yum. Crescants are like my next big thing. Yeah, but I'm just like it's so fun. It's actually so frustrating because Virgo, I don't like sticky things on my hand. So it's like working with the dough, I get so frustrated. But like as soon as it comes together and it's like in the oven and it's out, it's just like that moment when everyone's eating it and you're like, I did that. Do you dress up like a little trad boyish?

Honestly, I probably wear about three different outfits throughout baking and it's like from like the t-shirt and boxers to like, oh, am I filming this or like. Yeah. But no, I have not put on like a full A-line dress to pull out. Any aprons? Aprons. A shirt and a shirt and boxer seems like it would be. With an apron?

Yeah. Yeah, just like my normal like chill stuff. Like I'm in between cleaning. I got to let my dough rest for a couple hours. then come back. You know what's crazy about aprons is that I don't wear them often. And my mother-in-law gives to me this wonderful apron. And I've ruined countless t-shirts with oil stains.

And I don't know why I don't put one on every time I cook. And when I do, I feel a little bit more in the zone. Yeah, like, profess. With an apron. Yeah. Yeah. And you have little pockets. So you're just like throwing things in there.

I think we need to reclaim the apron back from the Tradwives. I think we should. too. Yeah. It should be a safe space. I don't want to be labeled a trad wife if I putting on an apron and filming content. You guys, my hair stylist, I got my hair done that long ago. He put on like a black leather apron and pulled that.

He cinched his waist in and I said, oh. I said, oh my God. I didn't know I was so attracted to you. It was so hot. Suddenly. Wow, that black leather apron was, it did something for me. Yeah, you cinch that apron. You're about to do business.

Yes, and he did. Look at my hair. She said send me a link. Yes. Natalie had to step out. She had to do some momly duties. She's in and out of this episode. I appreciate you all bearing with us. We're about to get to our first guest, Brooks Marks, the very charming Bravo celebrity that is one of the stars of NextGen, NYC. He's the son of iconic Meredith Marks, and he is up next.

And then following Brooks Marks, if you're tuning in to the married at first site, our interview with Nikki and Sean. It's a it's a wild conversation especially the Sean run. I was thoroughly entertained, uh, if nothing else. Uh, we certainly try to get, uh, some answers on where they're now, how they feel about their experience. And that is following our conversation with Brooks. So don't go anywhere. Before we get to Brooks, we have a new little segment idea I've been playing with guys. Uh, it's called I hate Nick. Uh, I love this. I love this. Uh, we are, listen, we, we, we love what we do at this show and we love that we get to talk about these, fun shows and these fun topics and relationships. And we, as often say, we invite discourse.

We are aware that there are many people who listen to the show that often do not agree. And we see it even more online. And we feel like that side maybe of the internet is not fully represented in our living room. And this is an opportunity to bring on some people who disagree or even feel strongly about me and the positions we have on this show. It is meant to be fun, lighthearted, take a little bit of the piss out of the disagreements we have because I strongly feel in this world we should have more fun disagreeing, at least with the more fun topics.

So if you hate me or you want to debate one of your favorite shows or topics that you've heard with us on the show, please write in. You can write into the Ask Nick email if you want, and let us know if you hate me and we'll see where it goes. It should be fun. I love this. What a segment. What a segment.

Well, think about it. And if you really hate me, let us know. Brooks Marks is up next. And don't go anywhere because we have Nikki and Sean from Marriott First Sight following Brooks Marks. I'm actually working on a song with my sister Chloe tomorrow in the studio. So I'm excited. I'm excited, yeah.

Is Chloe a singer? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. She has her first. Are you also a performer or are you like producing it? Producing, yeah. I assist with producing, co-writing, sort of all of it. But, yeah, she had her debut single come out at the end of May,

performed it at the Mighty Hoopla Festival in London. Wow. Which was, like, super cool. Yeah, she's crushing it. Well, this is a great place to start. Brooks, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you.

I'm good. How are you doing? I'm great. I don't want to cut you off, but this was good stuff. I wanted to make sure we used it. But back to your sister's debut. Yes. She had her debut single come out at,

the end of May, ORA by Chloe Marks. It's an incredible song and had her debut performance of it shortly after at Mighty Hoopla in London with my mom's DJ set. Incredible. It was pretty awesome. Yeah, she's crushing it. Meredith is international. I love it.

It's great. She is. Does it feel extra surreal when you're like traveling international and your mom is being approached and she has diehard fans or are you just kind of used to it? No, I mean, it's insane. It's like always the most insane thing to see. Well, we're really excited to have you. Obviously, you are from a family of just a really famous Bravo family,

an iconic Bravo family. A family that, quite frankly, when it comes to like the bravo sphere has like, you know, has been under fire, has dealt with scrutiny. And there are so many families that fall apart on reality TV. But your family has risen above it all and seem to be. better than ever. And you're all having great success. So it's great to see the Mark's family, ignore the haters, and excel in life. So congrats just in general to you and your family, but it's cool to see. Thanks, Nick. Yeah, it's the Marks family power, if you will.

From that regard, like what do you think it is about your family that is able to ignore the noises, as they say, and really be truly a family while supporting each other? Where does that come from? And is that how it's always been in your family? Yeah, I mean, my family, all of them are my best friends. And not just like my parents and my siblings, but like my grandparents, my aunts, my cousin. So I feel like it's just been something that's so deeply ingrained in my upbringing. And we always keep it real with each other like no one else. Being a Bravo celebrity now that you're on NextGen, is that something you aspired to?

Did you have to be convinced? Like what was the genesis of you becoming your own? Bravo Celebrity. When NextGen came about, I was really excited because I felt that the limited capacity in which I was shown on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, like, I was excited to actually show more of who I am, you know, and have the opportunity to be the main character and show my life and my business and my dynamics with my friends and whatnot. So I was really excited about it. I imagine as having a mom who's a housewife, I'm sure, because, you know, there's a handful of children shown from time to time. And sometimes directly or indirectly, they become storylines.

Is it a thing where you feel that? Because a lot of reality TV stars often feel like they don't get to control their narrative, but at least they are showing up to do scenes. Whereas the kids, did it ever feel like that? And I imagine this was very rewarding. Yeah, no, 100% it did. But I didn't think that I would even be a topic of conversation throughout Real Housewives of Salt Lake City because I simply thought it was just like my child showing up to support my mom. And then when that wasn't the case and I became a part of the story and whatnot, I was very surprised and didn't really know how to handle it. And I felt like it was an uneven playing ground, you know, and I didn't have the platform really to say my experience.

but I did have, and I do have the most powerful mom. So she stood the ground for her and myself. Yeah. Honestly, like that's like watching like you guys in Salt Lake City and your dynamic is when I was like, oh, I ride for Meredith for like forever. Just because I'm like that's, she's the best. Yeah. Truly. Does your mom ever sound like a lawyer when she's parenting you guys?

I mean, it's impossible to win an argument with her. It's really frustrating. Now, is that because she's making. better points or she's just not going to concede ever? Both. Okay. Literally both. Like she is a lawyer. She is very firm in her opinion and very good at convincing you that it's true, you know? And I mean, she really is almost never wrong. So when she brought up the whole DJ Meredith Mark's portion of it, like what was your initial thought? I was really excited. I think that what's so fun about it is it's so unexpected to think that like my mom this like strong elegant woman caviar connoisseur loves to get behind

the DJ booth and break it down and it's an amazing at it too by the way she's so good at it she's so talented i mean yeah truly like going to her DJ sets is the most fun thing ever and the energy of the crowd is incomparable to anything else we went to the weho show uh last year and my watch literally was like are you working out right now because i was dancing so hard Was she, so before she, like, went into DJing, was it always, like, was that something that you guys were, like, talking about? Like, was, like, obviously Chloe's making music, like, his music always been, like, a big part of your guys's dynamic and stuff? Yes, I would say so, for sure. I mean, we had, like, the iTunes library where it was sunk to all of our phones. And so my mom got a lot of my music and I got hers and whatnot. So we always, like, bonded over stuff like that. But her, um, DJ piece of it, I remember she was in, like, Provincent. town, I think, five years ago or something and just, like, got behind the DJ booth, had fun. And then I think she was like, I'm going to take this seriously and go from there.

And she did because she could. Like, amazing. We ran into you at BravoCon last year, which was that your first time at BravoCon? No. I went to BravoCon. I think it was 2023. Okay. So what's really interesting about this BravoCon for you, right, is we're watching NextGen and you guys

were filming during, which I don't think has been done. It was crazy. Yeah. What was that like, first of all, having to meet all these fans and doing all these events and being a part of BravoConn and then also being like a working Bravo Liberty at the time as well? It's so fun. I mean, getting to see the faces behind these names that I see online and stuff is like so incredible realizing that these numbers on social or not just numbers. Like these are human beings and getting to meet everyone that shows up and supports the show and me and my family. It's like the most rewarding thing. And then obviously, tensions, you know, ran high.

It was a long day. And I mean, yeah, long day, long night. Do you feel like you were working throughout and the cameras were just following you? Or like because you're so used to it? Or did it feel like I have to perform plus show up as like for the fan event as well? I mean, I think the interactions that you have with fans are so brief that like I would never want to have a bad interaction with a fan. like they have spent hours, days, like traveling to get there and everything. And in like a 30 second interaction, it can either like make or break their day.

You know what I mean? So there is definitely pressure in that regard. But genuinely, it's like so exciting to get to like meet them and see everyone. I was really, yeah, impressed with Bravo. I was nervous to go because like online, it can feel like a very different energy. Right. And yeah. But at BravoCon, it's like who are these people?

I don't recognize them. Everyone's sweet and nice. and you're like, I don't recognize, you know, because my only experience was engaging with him online. So I was really glad. I was really glad. I went because it really kind of, it really softened my perspective because in person, it's just a really lovely, great fan base. Fully. I mean, I was prepared to meet a hater and get flower bombed or something. I don't think they're spending that much on a ticket to do that. So. Yeah. But our booths were across from each other. That was fun. They were. Yeah. You looked, uh,

very busy and very, you seem like a very focused individual. And I feel like you're the taste maker of your family. Is that an accurate description? I feel like everyone's, whether it's your mom's music or your sister's music or whatever your family is doing, I feel like you're the one who has like final approval on whether it's chic or not. Thank you. I mean, creative director, so to say.

Creative director, yes. But in terms of like, chic or not, definitely that goes to Meredith Marks. Did you learn your taste from your mom? I don't think we have the same taste. Like entirely, I would say. There are definitely arguments that we have over things that she's worn or directions that she's wanted to take her business and whatnot that I don't agree with.

But she, at the end of the day, is like, you know, the judge of what she cannot. Not to be forgotten your father says. Of course not. Let's not forget him. Where are you similar? Like, what qualities from your father do you have versus the qualities from your mother?

What a great question. I think that my dad is the most, like, loving and accepting person of everyone. And so I would at least judgmental. And I would love to think that I'm the same. So that's probably, like, the number one thing. I mean, he has a great sense of humor and doesn't take anything too lightly, super supportive. And he's just like a walking TED talk at all times, you know? Or, like, having, like, Mel Robbins in your pocket.

Yeah, I forgot what the scene it was with, in the first, season when your dad was on it. I forgot who it was it was it so the person you were dating I don't know but he was trying to be a mentor to someone and it was really oh it was Charlie it was Charlie it was Charlie it was Charlie. It was like unsolicited like can I be your mentor and it was like so endearing how's that mentorship going? With Charlie it didn't go it didn't go too well he didn't take yeah no no he just I think can't hear Well, all your dad can do is try. Yeah, exactly. What is it like filming with someone like Charlie,

where obviously you guys have had like some like tension. And it seems like no one really likes him, but he's always around. And like what is that dynamic like for you just like kind of dealing with him all the time? Like are there things that you like about him? Are you in a better place with him now? Yeah. Well, I think it's tricky in what a lot of people who have longstanding friendships with him are navigating is you know people change throughout the years and whatnot and a lot of the behavior that I've seen from him

in the past year or two is new and behavior that I've not experienced so I feel like trying to navigate that um and try to not you know and just have like discernment with what's going on is been difficult um but like at the end of the day we're all like walking this earth for the first time and so I don't want to be overly judgmental, so to say. He's a smile of even not developing the direction you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's honestly so exhausting watching someone continually hurt the people that I love and care about and have little to no remorse for it.

That's what I was going to ask. I was like, do you think that Charlie gets an unfair pass for his behavior? Because I feel like it's always kind of surmounts to it. That's just Charlie. Yeah. And it's just kind of like, especially this last episode, watching how he spoke about Ariana, like, even the things about Amira that have come out that he said, that I'm just like, it's so confusing to me how everyone's able to just like sit down at a dinner table with him the next night knowing that he said terrible, awful things about you guys. Girl, me too. Yeah.

Trust me, we get all into that at the reunion. Ooh, okay. You know, Shai said the reunion was, he used a very specific word for it. Terrifying is what he said. Would you agree? I mean, it is intimidating. Like, it's a set with cameras and lights and, like, we're sitting there for hours on end, hard-hitting questions.

You don't really know how people are feeling about certain things or how they're going to react to them. So, yeah, I mean, the pressure is definitely on. Was there ever, because, you know, in reunion, obviously, there's a production behind it. And to your point, like you said, I think that you're supposed to kind of come in with what you want to say and not give your peers necessarily the heads up. Is there a moment? I know you can't share too much. but is there a moment where something comes up

where you feel like, whoa, like it directed at you where you caught off guard at any moment by your peers? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that I did the same to them, so it's fair. Okay. A lot of people have kind of like given you

a little bit of shit for like confrontation and you've talked about like not liking confrontation. Going into a reunion, that's obviously all confrontation. Right. Did you, were you like working yourself up for it? Did you go in there like intending on being like, okay, I'm going to do this?

Or did you want to still kind of keep it peaceful? Well, here's the thing is I feel like with confrontation, it's not that I'm like, I mean, it's something that I'm fine to do. It's just I don't ever want to have a friendship ruined over it, you know? And I think it's what I'm more scared of is just like the aftermath of a confrontation, what comes from it. I think that, you know, the past year or two we've seen me be confrontational. but my delivery might not be as harsh as people might want or, you know, if I were more harsh, I'd be more receptive to it.

So I feel like at reunion, I definitely dialed that up. And I was like, if you're not going to hear me, I'm going to be more harsh about it, you know? How are you in shy these days? Good. I mean, I wish I'm like all the best. We were with each other like a couple weeks ago, had like a fun night. Yeah. I love Rowan as in addition to the cast.

I think she's so fun and it feels like she blends in seamlessly. Did you know her before she joined? No. Okay, so you just met her. So I feel like a lot of people did just meet her. And so I'm wondering, why do you think, like, Rowan fits in so well and that Shai is having such a problem a year later? I think that shy initially, everyone was very, like, welcoming of and excited about. He behaved very differently this past year.

I feel like Rowan came in and just with us like this, like, this. lighthearted, fun energy, and she brought a lot of humor to things that felt intense. So I really appreciated that. And she's an incredible friend. And I'm so grateful that she's a part of the group. Oh, such a great addition. Yeah. Would you consider shy at this point more of a friend or an acquaintance? Because Riley brought up the difference with him. I would say he's a friend. Yeah. I mean, we're working towards building a friendship. At least that was what our last conversation was about. I don't know if that's changed on his end. I think what makes an amazing reality of you start.

their ability to be the same both on and off camera because then it feels more authentic. I think your mom is a standard there. And I think you do a great job of that as well, which is why I think a lot of fans, a lot of people are fans of you. Are there any of your peers, especially because this is just, you know, it's new for all of you filming.

But are any of your peers do you feel are noticeably different when the cameras are rolling versus when you're just kind of hanging out with them, without them rolling? Yes. I mean, throughout this season, I think a lot of shy's, shy and I's issues were that he was not being the same off camera as he was on camera. And I feel that that whole situation has been, like my experience has been narrated by both him and Charlie throughout the entire season, which has been frustrating to watch. But it is what it is.

You know, like I know my truth at the end of the day. What was maybe the biggest difference for the shy? Like how is he off camera versus on? Just he wasn't owning things that he was saying off camera when I brought them. two cameras. Is this about his comment that you made about Ariana? Yeah, that was part of it. And there's more that you'll see at the reunion that comes up.

Okay. Okay, so I have a question about technicalities, I guess, because I'm in my 30s, right? So I'm like dating in your 20s in New York. It's fascinating to watch. And I'm watching this conversation happen where Ariana and Liam have talked about being exclusive. Yeah. And then the whole Charlie bringing up this.

leaving the charger over a situation and it's we're not exclusive. We're not dating, but they have a conversation of exclusive. Can you explain to me as an elder millennial? What does that mean? Like what is the difference of exclusivity versus dating versus boyfriend, girlfriend, like are there stages to this? Yeah. I mean, to me it goes like you're seeing someone that you're excited about, but you're not exclusive. So you could go see other people too at the same time or do whatever you want. So it comes from like going on dates to like then being excluded. meaning that you're not seeing anyone else. Okay.

But it's not as serious as like a boyfriend girlfriend. But what is the difference though? It's... I guess it's a conversation, right? That transitions it? I get where you're sorry. Yes. Yes.

Well, then it's like being exclusive just doesn't feel as serious as being like, will you be my boyfriend? Is it because if it doesn't work out, you don't have to add them to the list of exes? Yeah. They're just like someone you dated and tried out. They'll be your ex, ex, not ex-boyfriend. No, because I, Loki consider like, exclusive the same as kind of like, a situation ship almost. Or maybe, no, situation ship is before. A situationhip with intention.

Is there any like, what are the, you know, like common law, like if a couple lives together long enough, they're married. If you're like exclusive but not boyfriend and girlfriend long enough, do you like, are you just grandfathered in even though you don't have that chat to being boyfriend and girlfriend? No, no. You're still exclusive. Okay. It's in perpetuity. I feel like exclusive. It's like you can easily just shift that car in reverse and be done. But like boyfriend, girlfriend. Exclusive is the engagement at this point. If like boyfriend, girlfriend is marriage. Yeah.

But you still have to break up if you don't want to see this person anymore. It's just like, I don't want to be exclusive anymore. I want to see other people too. Okay. So it's like. And can you do that over text? I don't know. I don't know.

I feel like yeah, exclusive. It's like lower stakes. All right. Awesome. I was exclusive with my boyfriend before we got to where we are today. And how long did it take you to get there? Now, what's your anniversary? Do you have the day we became exclusive and the debut became boyfriend and girlfriend?

An exclusive aversary? No, we don't have an exclusive anniversary. I'll tell you what. My wife, not to make this about me and my relationship, but like we're very compatible. But when it comes to get her birthdays coming up, when it comes to love languages, I'm full of love, but I have no love for gifts. It feels like there's an infinite amount of holidays that I'm required to get a gift. It's really hard for you. It's a strain on our relationship. It's the only thing that creates tension. Well, I guess that's a good strain to have, you know, it could be, that's an easy fix now. Well, you know, I'm fortunate enough that I can, despite my begrudging and kind of Scrooge McDuck attitude, I can, I can still afford to make my wife

happy. That's good. What's the best gift your dad's ever giving your mom besides you? I don't know. Who's the best gift giver in your family? Probably me. I knew you were going to say that. Yeah, definitely me. Yeah. You seem like a good gift gift. I remember when I was like 12, I got my mom an iPad, but I wrapped it as like the shape of a heart because I didn't want her to know what it was. That's so cute. That's really cute. And I thought it was like so cool and mischievous, but she like, she was like, wisely so heavy and feels like a rectangle. I have a really, really important question for you.

So you talked about seeing ghosts and I'm living in a haunted house as a kid. And I just want to know like a little bit more about that. And also like, have you lived anywhere haunted since? Is this something that you still? have experiences with. Yeah. I mean, not to that level,

no. Okay. Actually, the, what is it? Like the Roosevelt Hotel here? Yeah. I was there one time

and it felt very haunted. 100%. And then I did a lot of research and I found out that it is haunted. Facts. What was your feeling there? Just that like something sinister occurred, you know?

Probably. Oh. Something sinister occurred at every hotel across the world. Yeah. Yeah. That happened to me in this like old hotel. I was, I was in college in Chicago and I was at this old hotel and I literally like walked across like one hallway and the energy is just like completely shifted in the room and I was like, yeah. Yeah, or like temperature.

Like if rooms can like feel heavy. Yeah. Feel like dark. Like energy can feel crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think people can be haunted? And if so, who do you think of your cast would be the most likely to get haunted?

Yeah. I mean, I think it's in any. Anyone watching this would know, like, Charlie is possessed. As haunted for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Are you watching Ultimate Girl's Trip at all? I just watched the episode with my mom appearing, and I loved it.

Yeah. The group dynamic is so cute. They're having, like, the best time. To that end, we are seeing a different Lisa Barlow. And I have had quite the journey with Lisa. I used to be a critic. Now I'm a super fan, an apologist. I love it.

What is your experience with Mrs. Lisa Barlow? And are you a huge fan? Is she being, you know, obviously her and your mom have always had a very dynamic relationship. What is it like to know the real Lisa Barlow? It's actually insane. I've known her for like 13 years now. Unless I just did the math wrong. It was 14 and I'm 27 now.

So like whatever that is, 13. 13. Yeah. Look at you genius. Yes, I believe you. I swear I run a clothing brand. But no, she's awesome. She's never changed.

She's the same. How is she misunderstood, do you think, by the general public? Well, I just think that she's constantly under fire. So I feel like she feels the need to defend the things that she's been criticized about. So I don't think that you see the side of her where she's not under fire a lot. And I don't know. She's always just been so fun. Like she has just been like the most complimentary person.

And I remember we had like lunch in Salt Lake City when I was 14. Her and my mom were having lunch. I crashed it. And she just made me feel so good about myself. And she's so, like, real with all the stuff that went on with her and my mom, like, years ago with, like, the hot mic moment and whatnot. It was like, to me, it would be fake to, like, see me and be like, oh, my God, hey, Brooks. Like, how are you, blah, blah, blah.

Like, she, you know, we didn't talk. It was, like, real. And I actually appreciated that. I actually don't love when someone is horrible to my mom and then feel like they can just be best friends with me. Right. You just annihilated my mom. Why would I like go get a drink with you? How did you feel when they started to reconcile? Was it like finally or was it just kind of like, okay, like gradual, see how this goes? I mean, obviously no one wants to see anyone be treated that you love and care about in a negative way. So I probably was more protective and like apprehensive

and nervous for her. But at the end of the day, it's between them two. And it just made me feel really happy that they were able to move past it, you know. As obviously Meredith's son with everything, I'm sure, do you watch all of Salt Lake City or just like bits and pieces? Yeah, I'd say like I've watched all of it. How does it feel like watching your mom kind of have to fend for her own in this like lion's den of women that seemed, if it's not coming for Lisa, they're coming for Meredith? And it's just like, you know your mom inside out and it's just like seeing these things that

they put on her. Like how does it feel like being a son, like watching your mom have to deal? Have to engage. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel really proud of her, you know. She handles it really well. She handles it with elegance and grace and puts a bitch in their place. Hey. Oh my God. Wait, that was like a haiku. I kind of loved that. Bars. When you going into like the reunion, obviously Salt Lake City's reunions are like very intense. So did you get any advice from your mom like going into the next gen reunion? Yeah. It was on like a three-way call with her and Mary. And I was like.

Help me out, please. What do I do? Mary was like, say it with me. I am strong. And I was like, period. I need that right now. She took you to church. Yeah, fully. And then, you know, my mom was like, just be real, be yourself. And you got this. It seems like, you know, you can have anything you want in life, Brooks. So I'm curious. What does success look like for you in three years? Honestly, just happiness. Like mental health. What's the updates with the clothing line?

My resort collection is out Which has been so exciting Where can we find it? Where can we buy it? Where can we support? Brookesmarks.com exclusively Do you appreciate how cool your name is? The double KS is just killer It's the type of name Like you were born to have a clothing line

Like I could never No one would buy clothes with my last name It's like, ew What? The vile shirts wouldn't The vile t-shirts wouldn't wouldn't do it you don't think well i can't say we've made a killing on merch and i don't bring me in i'll design it uh i might have to steal your name it's a it's a it's a it's a you have the type of do you when you introduce yourself do you ever are you like high on brooks marks or you just say on brooks

because i if just i would go i would go full name if i'm you i'm crying um it's like bruce one behind bruce bruce thank you it's a great thank you that makes me feel really good about myself and I'm reconsidering how I do introduce myself. You have to. You have you. It's, oh, shit,

oh, it's Brooks marks on Brooks marks. It's like the opposite of Madonna. Brooks marks. No, but seriously. Like, I,

it lands. Like, every time I meet a guy who you didn't introduce his full name, you can, you know why, because it's always a great name. Like, my mom's main name is Parker.

And if I was Nick Parker, damn. Oh my God. Um, parent trap. Yeah, exactly. Nick,

Nick Carter, you own a winery for sure. Yeah, that is the guy's name in the paratroop. Anyways, for me, Brooks, please, go full Brooks marks. It's too good to not, it's such a waste if you don't. Great name, face card, and clothing. Come on. Thank you. Come on now.

What's your favorite piece in the resort collection? That's tough. More recently, I just came back from a trip where I was in Europe for like 10 days, and I was wearing the universal shorts a lot. the color midnight, sun ray, and moonlight. Is this something I can wear and look good on me?

Yeah, yeah. How about when Nail and I are promoting Age of Attraction next season for Netflix? You dress me in some Brooks Marks on our press tour. We can get you in a custom fit. I do a lot of custom looks too.

Let's do it. Can we do that? Yeah, absolutely. You heard it here first. All right, I'm going to hold you to it. No, please do. I would love that. Thank you. I would be honored. Are you kidding? I love it. Do we have any more questions for books before we send him on his way?

I have two more questions. One. Have you heard anything about like NextGen LA? Why did I say L.A. Keep it in. But have you heard anything about NextGen L.A.? Have you like heard anything about the rumor cast or talk to them? The rumblings.

I feel like I'm in the loop as much as everyone else is on from what we see online. But yeah, that would be incredible. I would love that. Do you think would you view it as like, competition or like your siblings. Yeah, siblings. Yeah. No, crossover.

They would, they should do like some kind of the way they introduced a summer house. You guys go on a group trip to L.A. and like, that would be so fun. You guys would be the Orange County Housewives and then L.A. would be the Beverly Hills Housewives and then whatever comes after. It's like the start of the franchise. Oh my God. That would be insane to think that we were the match that started at all. Wow.

The lantern that started the Chicago fire. Literally. Period. Wasn't there a cow involved in the Chicago fire or something? Yeah. Oh, it was the cow that knocked the lantern over. And then the limestone building downtown was the only thing that survived. I learned that in my freshman year of Chicago class.

Yeah, and then my last question is kind of... The city's haunted, by the way. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever see the bullet holes from the mob guys when you would be walking around? actually did not I miss that

in my days in Chicago Oh it was There's this really old church Like downtown in the loop in Chicago And I like walked by it one time It was like a It was like touring my college And they were like

Yeah that's an Alcoupone Bullet hole They could have been lying It was just a college Definitely Definitely It's a lot It's a beautiful city though

I do love it Brooks before we let you go If you And honestly you can tell us to fuck off. But are you willing to share your sourdough recipe with us? Once we wrap, you know. Can I ask one vulnerable question about sourdough? Because I know both of you make sourdough. I haven't made it yet. Oh, you haven't? I'm just making french loaves.

What is a sourdough starter? I heard that word and I pretend I know what it means, but I don't know. It's a living organism, right? Or something? What's the difference? So is it like different than a regular bread started? Like what? Yeah. Oh. Well, so like with traditional bread, or baguette or whatever, you would have, you would use yeast, which is like a powdered, you know what yeast is, right? Yeah, so you'd use that. But with sourdough, what makes it sourdough is like using the sourdough starter, which is basically fermented flour that you're constantly like nourishing by giving it a ratio of flour and

water every day. So you take care of it. You're literally feeding it. Oh. That's really sweet. Why am I blinking little shop of pourers? Yes. But it's like that where it's like you have to feed it.

Feed me more. And then if it's like starts to get. sick or droopy, you got to take some out, you got to restart. And it's like you can keep a sourdough starter for years and pass it down to your children. Generations. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, like an aged starter. Like that is like an aged wine.

That is my dream. Yeah. To like have like in my will who's going to get my sourdough starter. You brought that up. That's why I was like, I think I've completely misunderstood what a sourdough starter is. Forever and all fermented. Fermented for science is crazy. Brooks, this has been a lot of fun having you on the show.

And just congratulations and all your success. Thank you. And obviously, good luck with everything. I'm sure we will see you around for a long, long time and hope to get you back on the show. And again, I want to be styled by you for my next press tour. We're going to make it happen. Yes. Where can people find you, follow you, support you with everything you're doing?

You can find me at Brooks Marks on all social platforms and brooksmarx.com for my clothing brand. Did you have to pay to make sure, like when you got your website? Did someone else have it? No, but I'm actually really upset. I almost got the Instagram handle at Brooks, like just at Brooks. I got a DM like in 2020 and they were like, I'm selling this handle. It's like $3,000, whatever. I'm like, okay, I'm going to make it happen.

And I thought it was going to be a scam. And then like two days later, someone else bought it. And I was like, I could have had that handle. Do you have Brooks marks though? Yeah, but it's not good enough. Listen, try it. Try it out. Try introducing yourself only as Brooks marks.

Yeah, but okay. See, what if my personal Instagram was at Brooks and then my brands was Brooks Marks? No, listen, at Brooks is very chic. Any single, there's like, someone has Nick. It's cool. Well, let's come for them and let's get it. What does it take to get it? Brooks, thanks for coming on, man.

We appreciate you. Good luck at the reunion. I'm going to need that for when it airs. Do you want him to present the gift? Yeah, what did you get me? This is our Brooks Marks sock duo. Period. Oh, I just saw that in the episodes.

Yeah. The sock fairy. Yes, the sock fairy. The sock fairy is here today. When you came sliding down the banister, lost it. You said delivery. Yeah. That was fun.

Next show is literally my favorite show on TV right now. Of course. So inside of this magic box. Look at this packaging. We have our ankle socks, which are the newest edition. And Jet Black with the Jackard Process logo on the soul. Well, I wear those with a loafer, maybe. I'd wear it with like a sneaker.

A sneaker, for sure. And then we also have them in Cloud White. Oh, thank you. Made for arch support. Must be nice, Nick. Must be nice. We'll get you something. All right, well, thanks for coming in, buddy.

I appreciate you. Thanks. See you later. All right, bye-bye. All right, it's time to talk some married at first sight. We have Nikki and Sean coming up. Any big takeaway. from the reunion that you ladies want to get off your chest before we get to Nikki and Sean.

I just want to say that I do think that this was one of the most captivating reunions I have watched in a long time. Yeah. I think they did a really good job with like giving the time to each couple and like time that made sense. And it was like, I feel like all of my questions were answered. Seeing the moms getting involved with like Felipe and Tori. And or Sean and Nikki. Like I was like, I appreciate this additional input. And were we shocked that nobody is together anymore besides Michelle and... It's always the good ones.

It's always the good ones when you can't remember their name. The unproblematic ones. I feel like if you can get one successful couple of those sets of a win. That's true. And they are, they seem so solid. They seem really happy. Yeah. She said something in her vows and I really liked it.

She was like, if there's... If two people want to be in a relationship and there's a bit of chemistry, anything's possible. And I was like, that's so true. It really just takes two willing people and then just a little bit of like, okay, I can jive with this person, you know? Yeah. Well, I feel like Sean disproves that. Well, I don't know that there was any chemistry. Because his whole thing, and you'll hear it in the interview, that he wasn't going anywhere.

I agree with you. I mean, that is the core of it. You know, I'm joking. But it's interesting how Sean has that perspective and yet didn't seem to work for him. I was floored by Philippe being like, can we be friends? Crazy. Okay.

I have to say, you guys, this is where my revenge plays the long game. He's like, you know, that too much? No? No. I like got so much happiness from that scene because I just think that I really do. I think revenge comes later. I think that justice is served and that he won't feel this until like another, you know,

seven to eight years when he's starting to get real lonely. Maybe his like, I shouldn't say this, but I'm like maybe his hairline moves back a little bit. And the access to women that he has right now starts to recede just like his hairline. And I'm just thinking I'm like, he's going to feel that loneliness. This is mean. This is so mean. But this is how my brain feels as a girl when a guy. fumbles you. I'm like the revenge comes later. She's got the long game and she was classy.

She was beautiful. She was everything and he's going to think about her at night 10 years from now. The way Adam was able to make Courtney look sympathetic in like 30 seconds. Why was he so mean to her? He seemed so angry in that moment. Like my only guess is there are people matchmaking him and Courtney online and he's taking great offense to that. And it also feels like a misplacement of his anger. It's almost like he took all this heat in the previous segment

and then finally he gets the chance to like unleash on somebody and it was hurt. It's like, it's not even like justified. She's done nothing. You know, maybe she even has a crush on you and like that's just so mean to like, I don't know, lash out on somebody who's a crush on you. On the flip side, the way she was like, I'm an alpha and Nick's a pussy was great.

I mean like, just like. Justice for Nick. Yeah, justice for Nick. Really. I was proud to see him standing up for himself. I was like, this is a side of Nick. I wish we had seen a little bit more in the show. Me too.

Yeah, but it's, and reality, very difficult for men to thread that needle. And sometimes it's easier just to take it and hope that the audience sees your side. I'm just confused. Are we still doing hickies in 2026? Oh my gosh. Crazy work. That was the most, like, if anything, that was like one of the most like, I was like, wait, What you mean?

You know, the tarts for a roof. So was the hicky from the girl that was in the audience? Was that the timeline? But after he, after he yelled at Nikki about pickleball for 20 seconds, she had been mortified. Oh, yeah.

Oh, can you, yeah, can you imagine being the girl in the audience? Like, I'm a stick beside him. He's the sweetest, most compassionate. Yeah. After three months, you bring your three-month girlfriend.

I do want to say that we need a reclaim thinking people are ugly, We need to take people our ugly back, whoever us is. As a society. I love that these shows explore the importance of things outside of physical connection. I do.

But the way these shows sometimes have a way of shaming people for having a personal preference and just, you know, not like fucking with you. And just being like, you know, you're not my type. I don't find you attractive.

Yeah. The way people are like, like bullied into like, admitting it so that they can be shamed, I think is a little crazy. I think when it comes to relationships, they're like three, three truths. You have to like at least, you know, you should be aware of and I think it'll help you. It's like one, there's someone for everyone. Thank God. You can be a pain in the ass, but chances are you're going to find someone that accepts you for who you are for the most part. Two, no one is for everybody, you know? Like, I don't care who you are.

Some people are just like, you know, they're not for you. And you're only looking for. what. So you don't have to have everyone obsessed with you. And some people can just find you repulsive. And that's okay. Yeah. And like you're just, you're ugly to some people. Yeah. I mean, I was talking about this with girlfriends recently where it's like, you can objectively see somebody and be like, wow, that is objectively an attractive person, but I am not attracted to them. I don't need to call you handsome. You know? Yeah. You need to bully me into thinking they're beautiful. Why do we have to call everyone's not beautiful and handsome. At least not to me. Right. Right. And I want to be able to say that without the fear of the internet. And I just said it. So.

I feel better now. Yeah, I hope you're ready. Yeah, I hate Nick. Anyway, back to you. Remember, I hate Nick is taking applicants. And you're ugly. Wrap it up. There we go.

There it is. All right. Well, it's time to get to Nikki and Sean. They are up next. It's a fantastic interview with both of them. I want to thank them for taking the time to answer our questions. We're starting with Nikki. And then we get to hear from Sean.

So I hope that you enjoy both. Nikki, welcome to the show. Thanks. I'm thrilled to be here. We're so excited to have you. So many questions, but I guess this off to bat, how are you feeling overall emotionally now that the experiment, the show, the airing, now that it's all done, it's in the can, how are you feeling about your experience? My main feeling is relief. I'm relieved that. And I don't need that negatively, but it was just such a challenging experience on so many levels.

you know, partly the production experience, what's being, you know, spectated 24 hours a day inside of this experience, but also emotionally, right, through what I experience with Sean and with myself. And then, so a feeling of relief now that, you know, the experience has been bookend. We had the reunion air this week. And so, yeah, it's just, it's nice for it to be over. that a negative way. No, I totally get it. Yeah. It's just great to be over and for me to just be able to figure out like the next chapter. I totally understand. I don't know what it's like to have gone

through your very unique experience. But yeah, listen, there's a lot of anxiousness and unknowing that goes into certainly the airing of this show. And I can appreciate the relief. I'm sure that you feel now that you can just digest it all. And there's nothing like, you know, there's always like what could happen next kind of anxiousness that comes with being a part of these experiences. So I totally get it. I guess I just want to start with. I'm sure you get a lot. But like just how you ended up going on such a unique show. I have so much respect for people who are willing to like try these these unique experiences out. I couldn't see myself doing it. And I say this is I'm a, I'm a particular person. And I like things a certain way. You strike me as someone who has your,

and I feel like maybe that was the only thing that you and Sean had in common is that you both like things a certain way. But as two people who like things a certain way, I, you know, like, there's a lot of like you, you had to give up, you know, picking your partner. So like, what made this experience for someone like yourself so intriguing to try out? Personally, Nick, thanks for seeing me because you're spot on. Yeah, I tried everything. I'd done, you know, the apps and being set up by friends and, you know, the singles events. I think there's still some of my calendar that I just would go weekly to these events. And then, like, despite what the internet is suggesting, a professional matchmaking service.

So I had literally done everything. And I had met good guys, but, like, not him, like, not my person. And so when I was approached by, like, casting people to consider this experience, and honestly, they had to kind of convince me over the course of a couple of days, because I have a lot of trust, and at that moment, have a lot of trust in the franchise of Meredith First Site because of the science behind it.

Still, to your point, I was terrified at the concept of being on TV and having to live this very personal, like, intimate experience out loud. And so I basically did it scared. And so that was really the reason behind. Are you glad you did it? If you could go back and do it all again, you still have done it? If I could go back and do it again, that's a hard.

I had this question post me a few times, even from like friends. And I kind of, I go back and forth. I would say I don't have any regrets. I feel like I learned so much. And I feel like it's a privilege to be in this position, right? And I would do it again. And I would actually do some things differently if I were to do it again. Do you have any of those you want to share?

I think that while I appreciate that I was honest and that I was myself and that I didn't sugarcoat, I feel like I could have been kinder and more compassionate. Like when I look, when I play back the reunion episode, while I was speaking my truth, I do feel like I didn't need to get so personal and sort of psychoanalyze Sean as a human. Like, I clearly was hurt. And I think that is what was coming through. but in hindsight, I would have maybe said things differently. Okay, that makes sense.

You address the whole not knowing Sean was your husband at the wedding day, at the reunion. What has been the response overall from fans? Are they seeing it as what I think it should be is this kind of almost a funny, charming moment, you know, given how crazy this experience is? Or are they taking it a little far? What has been kind of the response from the audience about that moment? The response from the audience or from the MOPS community, it's varied, right? There's a bunch of different responses, but I think the, and I think the main response is

what is true, which is like in that moment, one, I was extremely nervous. Like, I could have vomited. Like, I was just so nervous because I didn't know what to expect. And I was also just coming to the realization that I was like marrying a stranger. But, like, in that moment, I was thoroughly. confused. Like, I really did think that, um, that Sean was, was an efficient. Like, I just, it didn't register to me that he was my husband until it was announced by the efficient that he was my husband. So I think most viewers see it as a legitimate like experience where I was

just confused for a few minutes. He looks like he could be an efficient. I mean, honestly, I mean, that like the brown suit. Like, I literally. was like, oh, okay, like, they're just swishing it up. And the matchmaking. And he's going to come second. Like, I was just, I was just confused. And I, especially with the help from the experts, like I am cognizant that my experience and how I speak about my experience can affect another human, can affect Sean.

And I certainly wouldn't tend to be rude. And some of the internet thinks that I was like, just mean-girling him in the moment. I would never do that. I literally thought that my husband hadn't shown up yet. And I'm sorry if it landed poorly in that moment. Yeah, I think you deserve all the grace in the world. I just think this experience is so crazy. I am curious, in the matchmaking process, how much was looks discussed in terms of your preference? And did you share it if it was asked? And I'm curious if like, did you get to describe some of your preferences and then, you know, maybe it was different? So this is a good question. And yes, there was actually a pretty in-depth discussion around like preferences for like physical appearance and looks, both in live interviewing with folks tied to the show as well as in like the survey assessments that we complete. And it's twofold.

One, I did explain pretty thoroughly kind of what my ideal partner would look like. And it, you know, I, it did also, based on their questioning, include, like, tell me who your celebrity crushes are. And so I remember sending, like, here are the top, you know, here 10, you know, men who I think are hot, whatever. They range from, like, height, even race. Like, I didn't have a race preference. I think the internet thinks I said, I wanted a six-foot black man. Well, I just said I wanted a good-looking, like, human. Like I wanted a nice guy who would be kind and be social and all the things. And so I was very specific in kind of my ideal state. I also, though, said, looks isn't the only thing.

And so I really wanted someone that has certain character traits like kindness, compassion, intelligence. I wanted someone who was social and adventurous because I'm maybe not as much of an adventurous type. And so I think that the experts maybe did their back. but I do want to dispel what some of the internet says, which is like, I'm a sapiensexual. I may have said that, but I now know from like Googling the term

that it means that I only care about intelligence, and it's deeper than that. It's layered. I care about. I care about, especially coming out of this experience, is that I just want someone who's kind. Yeah. Can I ask, just like,

can I have like a couple of names that were on your list of celebrity crushes? Oh, crap. I'm trying to remember. Let's see. And even if they've changed, you can just give us one that comes to mind. Okay, I did say,

okay, there's the really hot football player. Is he retired? No, he's still working. What is he played for? The Eagles, I think, yeah. Eagles. Yes. There we.

Yes. And he is. And he is. It's a beautiful man. It was 10 men. They were white, Asian, and black, athletes, actors. Yeah.

It's across the spectrum. Yeah. He was high on the list. I'm curious, Nikki, because I think these shows fascinating. I like how love is blind and married at first sight, same production company. And obviously, a lot of these shows are rooted in. There's more than love than just physical attraction. And we have to dig deep to find these very important compatibilities when it comes to a relationship.

You know, I love how these shows do that. On the flip side, I'm curious, do you feel like going through this experience that having physical preferences was almost shamed in a way beyond the point of, like, being realistic? Because I can't help but watch these shows and find people like yourself, for example, that seemingly have to defend having a physical preference. And we had to pretend that almost if you have a physical preference, It's something you have to defend and that you're shamed for.

You had them. Clearly, Sean maybe wasn't it. But why you had to defend that seems to be unreasonable from my perspective. I'm curious if you have any perspective on that. Yeah. Thank you for asking another good question. I think, one, it's, again, hindsight being 2020, I'm very sensitive to talk about things like this because I don't want to reduce Sean to just this is physical archetype, right?

Like, he is a whole human. I think that's worth stating. And we also have our preferences. So, yeah, I do think I've been a little bit, like, villainized about that when, you know, if I'm speaking to a best friend or, like, if it's just us three in a room, right, I'm going to be honest about, like, what I like, what stimulates me. But to do it in such a public way, it opens the conversation up to more. I won't say criticism, but more evaluation.

And it honestly brings this discourse to light, which is like, how much that doesn't matter, should it matter? Is it a bad thing if it matters to you? Like, so there's just a lot of complexity here. But I would say I stand by the fact that, like, yeah, I have a physical preference. There's a physical type that I respond to and that I was hopeful that my husband would sort of show up that way. And it almost seems like it's okay for men to have a physical preference, right? It's almost the standard. It's almost, it's the question that's asked when when someone asks a guy,

like, what's your type? Typically, it's like, what's your physical type, right? When a woman has asked that question, I think it's open to more criticism. And I think that's what I was on the receiving end of. So, yeah, I think that's a little bit unfair. I also think that this show, and reality shows like this, do force you to be, to think a bit more openly about that, right? Because you could have someone to meet your physical type

who doesn't meet any of the other things. Or you could have someone that's like, not your physical type that you grow to appreciate and even love because they have all these other, maybe even more important qualities. And so that's what I would say. I really appreciated your mom at the reunion when she spoke directly to Sean.

And the one thing she chose to say, and obviously I loved how she made a clip that she had more. But was that he didn't take care of you. And, you know, while watching your guys' relationship unfold, and, you know, it was, that didn't really, like, click with me. But when your mom said it, I thought that was a really objective and fair criticism. From my perspective, and I look forward to asking Sean about how he received it. But, like, I think he had times he had good intentions, but, like, pointing things out because

almost like his way of getting on you guys on the same level was to like nitpick each other in a way but that didn't come across as a way that like this is a person I want to take care of and protect her and I don't want to make her feel bad about herself. I want to find ways to bring her up. It didn't seem like, you know, I like how your mom really did that. My question to you is how do you feel like Sean received that feedback from your mom and do you think he understood what she meant? I think that, like, one, I can't speak for him, right? No, I know. But you did get to know him, and I'm just curious as the man you got to know over that period of time. Do you think he was open to that? I don't think he was as open as he is out as I would have

expected him to be. Okay. And part of it is he is a very family oriented person and has deep ties with his family has been made known. And that's actually one of the qualities that I appreciated about him. And so I would have expected him to have, like, more respect and appreciation for, like, her as my mom and her giving feedback, whether he agrees or not.

Like, I think the respect wasn't there. And she was on the receiving end of what I had experienced, which was, like, you know, you could miss it. if you're if you're not like deeply tuned in like this like subtle gaslighting subtle like demeaning condescension behavior and i that's what really angered me in the in that moment just to spend a lot of time during the show trying to protect her from that um and then to see it play out out loud unexpectedly um was disappointing and i think whether he agreed or not with her

feedback. I think there was a different, you know, softer way he could have handled it. The moment where he mentioned the wifely duties and then later was like, I would never say that, I would never infer that to watch the internet, like see that play out and kind of come to your defense, at least that's what it felt like from my perspective. Was that validating for you? And did you hear from Sean at all? Like, was there an apology when he saw it back and realized, oh, I did say that? Yeah, it was validating to see the footage and to see the internet response because there were many instances that weren't captured on camera, right?

Where I had a similar experience where I was like, wait, like, you did say that, like, you know, that kind of thing. And so to have the most sensitive topic of the entire season captured on film was really redeeming. and it kind of softened the blow of experience in real time. And then to see the public reaction to line up with my experience with him, which I obviously have characterized as unsafe. Versions of events were twisted. And I actually, in some smaller instances,

was made to feel like, wait, like, maybe it didn't happen or maybe he didn't mean it that way. Like, I was starting to second guess my own judgment, which I think is very unsafe. Yeah. So I'm appreciative that it was on camera, that the public resonated with it. To your second question, he did reach out to me via text, I think maybe a day before his public apology with a voice note that I didn't listen to. But I could see from the summary that it was like there was an apology in there somewhere. You know, I appreciate the apology.

I think like two things. One, like words are one thing. I would just really appreciate him, like, internalizing it and like just take the lesson and like be different, grow. So the apology itself doesn't really mean a lot to me. I'm also not associated with him. Like I was associated with him or we had interaction on Decision Day. and at the reunion, beyond that,

we've had no interaction, and I obviously will like to keep it that way. But I do hope for him that, like, he grows from this experience. I accept the apology, but, like... You weren't waiting around for it. You didn't need it. I wasn't waiting around for it.

I had a closure on Decision Day and maybe additional closure during the reunion. And during the reunion, I obviously got to see the behind-the-scenes footage and obviously see him interacting with my mom. So I kind of had to, like, get additional closure on the chapter with him. So I guess I'll leave it at that. Okay. And I guess I'm curious overall, we don't get to see everything. Things are edited.

Like watching it back, were you happy with what you saw? Did you feel like it was authentic to your experience? And then did you feel like your experience with Sean watching it back? Did it accurately portray overall, knowing that we can't see everything? But did you feel comfortable with that? I would say generally, yes. You know, it's obviously, all of the big moments, right? And it's moments strung together to tell a story. And I know, I think to tell the most entertaining story. So it's more like if Sean were to be like, yo, it's all bullshit.

Don't believe it. It's a TV show. Would you? Yeah. What would you say to that? No, I would disagree. I think it's largely representative of our experience. Okay.

Yeah. Do you remember the exact moment that you knew the, marriage wouldn't work? There wasn't an exact moment. It was, it was a, like, a collection of moments. It was like a culmination of moments. One, it was kind of like up and down. This to your question, it gives, like, a lot of the good times were not televised. We had fun moments of connection based on our, like, similar backgrounds and like inside jokes and just the happier times, which largely were in the last two weeks, to be clear. But there, there were the moment. that didn't make it to film.

And so I do think maybe your question, a more complete story would be to show a more balanced relationship and that going into Decision Day, I truly was like, hmm, like I was convicted because I thought, hey, they say marriage is hard. This is really hard.

This is really hard. They say marriage is hard. And so, of course, if we're getting married first, of course it's going to be hard. But it's like, you know, the overall, the marriage was just too difficult.

Sure. And it was evident that we're just, we're just mismatched. Like, he is who he is, I am who I am, like not passing judgment. Like, we're just, we were just terribly mismatched. When it came to the underlying things that I think maybe were a little bit hard for the, the experts to detect. Did you have moments throughout the process where you were thinking maybe this could end up as a marriage or like, where you kind of like,

I don't know, trying to convince yourself of like seeing the good in moments because you signed up for those. Well, adding to that, there was like, it seemed like to be a moment where I'm curious what Sierra asked you, but like, were you leaned in? And to Sierra's question, was there, like, can take us through that? Yeah. So I did, I did lean in partly due to the expert's guidance and some of the perspective that they helped me see, which is like, you know, you were matched for a reason. like just explore. And so I think I had that in mind and I truly did. I also remember consulting friends who are inarranged marriages or who are products of arranged marriages, right? Because it's the same concept. And I got to hear from them, which which is really around like, you know, like committing to the process and leaning in and kind of putting yourself aside. And so I think in the latter few weeks,

I just kind of had that in mind and I was kind of conducting myself that way. And I will say those were the weeks where I saw Sean like really like soften and there were I didn't, there were fewer at least like digs and comments. Like it was kind of like a different person based on me just almost like, I don't want to say killing him with kindness. But I was just like fully leaned in, putting myself aside. And we were having a good run. I will say that it kind of felt like I was self-abandoning a little bit because when there would

be comments made or like I would just like brush them off like, okay, he didn't mean anything by that. Or I just felt like I wasn't being authentically myself, right? I wasn't, I felt like I was almost like performing a little bit with good intention and with my whole heart, but I didn't, it didn't feel natural. and like I really, I really want and wanted something that was natural. I can imagine that can be a very difficult, you know, to try to know the difference. What, if anything, about this experience?

Have you learned about yourself as a partner as a dater? That's an adjustment that you think that you maybe have already made or are planning on making that you think will make you a better partner growing forward in any relationship you are in? Yeah, that's a really good question because I definitely feel like I learned so much. And it's like, experience is the best teacher. And sometimes like hardship or difficulties are the best teachers. I would say, one, I came into this thinking that I was like a really good communicator. And I learned that like, you know, I could improve.

And so the experts did a lot to nudge us to be able to have difficult conversations and or deescalate or to be able to talk about. something that I would normally talk about. I would just be silent on it and like hope it resolves itself. And none of those like none of that is is healthy in a relationship. So I would say improved communication is one. I would say another is to be more other centered, you know, as someone who's been, you know, single for a long time, I've obviously had relationships, plenty of them. But like not being in an official marriage, I would say that being other centered. So focusing on the other person and in the dynamic and even in a conversation, right? Because I think sometimes when we're in conflict, we're doubling down on like our point of view or our point and we want to

make our point. But if you put yourself in the other person's shoes, it forces you to have more compassion. And a lot of times that it prevents all of the conflicts that come up in a relationship. So I would say those are the two big things I'm coming away with. Those are great answers. Does anyone else have any more questions for Nikki before we let her go? No, I think we got it. Yeah. I think you're fabulous, though. No, thank you for not settling.

Yeah, exactly. Thank you. No, thanks for the time and for the forum. It's a great show, and you two were a very fascinating couple. So thank you, Nikki, for taking the time. And I'm glad that you feel good about this experience. And best of luck with everything going forward. Thank you so much.

I appreciate it. All right, take care. Bye, Nick. Bye, bye, bye. Bye. Oh, lovely. I forgot what he said to. her mom or the interaction.

Do you guys remember? He essentially, oh, he essentially, like, blamed her for, like, keeping them apart and not introducing them,

which therefore made the distance because the community should be supporting her and encouraging their relationship to grow versus being kept apart. And honestly, I think there's something to that, not in their case,

but I do think it is important that your community, like, supports your relationship, as long as it's a healthy one. You know, but I'm like, that's so great when you're family can be like, you know what, marriage is hard and this is what you do. But she was like, no,

I'm keeping y'all separate for a reason. I don't need, I already know you're going to be disappointed. Yeah. So I'm not going to set you up for the disappointment. I'm curious. I'm curious for you ladies, everyone in the room. Every family dynamic is different. I get that. But at one point in a relationship where, yeah, you feel comfortable enough to, to bypass your partner and go directly to their parent and give them a piece of your mind. Never. Yeah. No, it's crazy. And the fact that Sean did that in this relationship with the lack of foundation is so, I mean, God, like I couldn't. Talk about a red flag. I wouldn't.

You know what I mean? We've been together for seven, six, seven, eight years, how long? Six years. Three kids together. Her mom has been so helpful, very part of our family. There's a huge. I would never. Right.

Without talking to Natalie first. Of course. Like, yeah. Tori and Felipe is the only scenario where I was like, oh, that kind of makes sense because Felipe's parents were like, you just made the biggest mistake of your life, Tori is a gem. And so when the parents are like coming to you, okay, fair, let's talk a little shit about your sign. But besides that, like leave the parents out of this. Oh my gosh.

Like what is going on? That is too weird for me. It's always good when the parent says something where they're like, oh, my son, da, da, da, or like, I've never seen him like this. and you're like, yes, okay, good, you're on my side. Yes. I'm not going to sit there and be like, you know what he did last night? That really pissed me off.

You should say something. Exactly. Yeah, that's great. Exactly. Well, we have Sean here, so let's ask him ourselves. Sean, welcome the show. Nick, good to be here. Thanks for having me.

Really excited to have you on, Sean. Thanks for being with us. Let's just start with, we asked Nikki the same question. Now that everything's in the can, we got to see the reunion. I know this has been like over a year in the making. How are you feeling? how are you kind of processing this whole experience and reflecting on it? What the hell was that, Nick?

What did I just go through? It was wild. It was insane. I am literally like, have all the emotions. I'm like, on one way, soberly grateful for the opportunity to try to find a love of my life in a real public way. On the other side, oh my God, Instagram, the chats, the articles, the YouTube videos have gone insane. So I'm trying to manage this space. And I'm just overall, just grateful for the opportunity to just find the person I was really looking for, which I think is just myself and just trying to be a better man to be ready for what the love of my life would look like in the future.

Well, that's awesome to hear. So overall, like you, if you would go back and do it again, you would ultimately do the experiment. I think I would do the experiment over again if I knew it would guarantee that I would find the love of my life. But as its current status, I would not do that same thing again without the same, without that didn't intent. So, you know, I'm a crazy person that was like all in. Would you say you regret it then doing it since you wouldn't do it again? No. Well, what's the difference? No regrets.

I don't live in regret. I think everything's a learning experience. And so I think some things are meant to be done once. No, I get that. I'm just saying if you had the benefit of like a time machine and you could like you could tap Sean. on the shoulder and be like, don't do it. You know, like that interstellar moment where like it's him and he's like, don't go. Yeah.

You know, knowing it didn't work out with Nikki and obviously there were highs and lows, but would you still let Sean go through that experience or would you choose a different path for Sean if you could go back in time and that day you said yes to merit at first sight? I guess that's my question. 100% choose it all over again. I'm a romantic. I'm somebody who was looking for love and I'm somebody who was locked in.

Cool. All right. That's good to hear. Good to hear. What did, like, what did you learn about yourself through this experience? Yeah. So number one, I learned relationships are a mirror. So when you have a partner there telling you this is what you look like, you should probably believe that partner or at least investigate it. Right. And so my first step is to really just accept feedback, right, a little bit more easily. That made me a better person. And then I also learned that, you know, you should always ask for what you want. You know, don't be afraid. Never obviously pressure anybody. But one of the things that I love about being from New York and having East Coast energy is that, you know, we're not shy about going for what we want. And coming from Harlem to Washington was such a drastic change in culture and environment.

And I think that sometimes I was perceived as being, you know, sometimes aggressive or trying to put my partner down or something. But actually, I'm used to, like, family and friends, like, you say what you want. The other person says what they want and you figure out who gets it. right who gets a big piece of chicken and you move forward but learning to listen to your partner has been a big key learning from me and it's something i want to bring into my next relationship i'm curious so when you're when you're talking about like where you're from and just how you grew up and how your family speaks to each other are you are you saying that was in terms of how you spoke to nicky that's where that was coming from is that more of a defense or is it more

like you know what i'm saying or i'm a little confused yeah no i fully i fully get you I think it's how I spoke to everybody on the cast. And I think there was a lot of times where I would say something, and it was so direct and on target that people were kind of offended by the fact that I would call out something that's so obvious. But it was so direct, and so therefore the approach sort of negated the message, right? And so sometimes I had to be more aware of that. Gotcha.

I will say you're quite, I mean, I'm all for like bedroom talk and questions, but the mutual masturbation question was crazy. Any regrets there? Let me ask you a question, Nick, and you'd be honest with me. Have you ever had a conversation with your wife about what to do sexually after pregnancy or during pregnancy? You don't have sexual conversation with your wife? I'm just having some fun here, but I think it was the framing of I'd never said mutual masturbation. Listen, I'm going to be honest with you, man.

I definitely would not have taken that approach in the future, and that's something I've learned from, just to make sure you're going at the pace of your partner. Sure. But I'm going to tell you this. I'm getting a lot of DMs from couples about the fact that they are like, married couples actually have conversations about sex, when they're in a mood, what they like, they don't like,

what they want to happen all the time. And it's villainized in some ways, but truthfully, sometimes couples have to have those hard conversations because one person may not be have not been in a mood for months. And the other person is like sitting here wanting something, right? So the conversation itself can be a good one. The approach I took, don't do that, guys. I got you.

No, that's totally fair. And I hear you, and it definitely is important for couples to talk about all aspects of the relationship and definitely how to make each other happy in the bedroom. But, yeah, I was just having some phone with you. We had an opportunity to talk to Nikki. and she brought up the conversation you had with her mom, that she was a little caught off by. And she just referenced a big, you know,

one of her appeals to you was, you know, how family-oriented you are and your connection with your family. And I think as a result, I think she was, I guess, little taken back by seeing the interaction you had with her mom. I do have to, like, I've been, my wife's not sitting next to me right now,

but I have a great mother-in-law. She's very helpful. I've been with Natalie for over seven years now. I feel like I'm a really, I have a great relationship with my mother-in-law, and I feel like there's a real, there's a real genuine comfort level we have with each other. Like, I would never bypass my wife and, like, kind of like, you know, challenge my mother-in-law in the way that you did at any point, but I'm just curious, where did you get that level of comfort?

Because that was a pretty direct, you know, and everyone's different, but I was a little surprised by that just from where I standpoint. So I honestly, I did empathize with Nikki's point of view, but maybe you saw it differently. Well, it's interesting how, you know, I will never be anti-Nicky, anti-Nicki's mom, anti-show. Okay. I'm only going to talk about my experience. I was asked during the reunion special to give Nikki's mom an apology. Okay.

And so I was asked to speak to her. I did not initiate speaking to her. And so secondly, when I was asked to give the apology, I wasn't quite sure what the apology was regarding. Like, I wasn't sure, like, what was the offense that I was being told about, right? Because a lot of times after these shows go off camera, you know, there are things that are happening that are just not being talked about. And so I'm not sure what Nikki had been telling her mom that I had did or what did not do. And so I wanted to just essentially say, you know, I love to know where you found fault because I want to improve. prove as a man. I want to improve my communication. What was the thing that offended you the most?

Right? Because I want to make sure sometimes when people apologize without a specific thing to apologize for, it can come across as inauthentic. And so I wanted to know what was the thing that was happening. And then as I was inquiring about the thing that was happening, then I immediately get from the same exact person, hey, don't talk to my mom. And I was like, oh, okay, you asked me to talk to her to apologize. And then you asked me not to talk to her when I try to get clarification of what the apology was for. So what I realized was I was in sort of a no-win situation, and I wanted to make sure that Nikki and her mom felt safe.

So I just re-diverted my attention from them to just focusing back on the host and back on the conversation with Nikki. So I do believe that, like, I talked to my mom this morning. I have also surrogate moms who are in the world. I have a lot of great relationships with family and friends and positive relationship with adult women, mature mentoring women in my life. And I like you, Nick, I also would never want to disrespect anybody who I revere and who I admire as my elders and my life. So I have a similar value.

And I'm sorry, it came across that way because that's not what I think was actually communicated from me. I really wanted to make sure Nikki and her mom felt safe. And I wish I had more an opportunity to talk to her earlier in a season. Okay. Sarah and Susie, any follow up to that? I'm just going to ask about the Seattle 7th. New York, or Seattle 10, New York, 7 comment. I would love a little bit more clarity about the belly grab or whatever prompted you to say what you said.

And then my follow-up question to that is somebody who seems to really have a stance on emotional intelligence. And I'm just curious as to why your reaction was to make that comment back versus to explain how her actions made you feel. Oh, okay. So I'm excited to talk about this because I do have a little bit of a tell-all coming out very soon to kind of go behind the scenes and color and context. And one of the things I'll be addressing there is this conversation. So I'm going to give you a little tidbit now. The first night we had intimacy was the same night that we had that conversation. And so what happened was before we had basically had finally had a night off of filming.

It was like eight or nine o'clock. And I'm like, hey, I'm going to go to the hot tub. You want to go? She's like, yeah, sure, let's go. So we grabbed some drinks, went down, had to meet. music, met some other people, it was cool. And I was like, I was like, you know, it's been, you know, great, but like it seems like you're not really into this. You're not really into me. I've given you two opportunities to leave already. And it seems like you haven't taken it.

So I'm going to just do it one more time. Let's take all the gloves off. Tell me exactly what you feel. And so we can get it out in the open and have the conversation and we can move forward from here. And so she goes, okay, grabs my belly and goes, look at you. look at you. And so we agreed it was going to be a roast session with the gloves off. And so I'm like, oh, your roast, now my turn to roast. Okay, you're walking around here thinking you're all that. You're not all that, right? So I go into my New York. I know how to roast. You want to roast? I'm roasting back. And we agreed it would be a mutual roast battle. Whose idea was it to do the roast? We agreed to take the gloves off. We said, let's talk about

everything that's bothering us. Who had the idea? Someone had the idea. You didn't come up with the idea. I said, let's talk about everything that's bothering us and let's have no fear about what we're talking about. So is your idea? And it was definitely communicated that it was mutual. It wasn't just like, I want to hear what you are struggling with from her perspective. No, no, because literally I said, let's figure out what's going on here. Why are we here? And then she agreed, yeah, let's talk about it.

So once we agreed on that, if I said, let's talk about it and she said, let's not talk about it, we would not have talked about it. But I said, let's talk about it. She goes, yeah, let's talk about it. And then she started off, right? So she began the roast, and then we go back and forth. And then at the end, we were laughing. We were having a good time.

And then as we're ending the laughing at the pool, we're walking back upstairs, I said, okay, cool. I'm ready to call the producers. I'll tell them we're done. And she's like, no, no, no, what? What do you mean? I'm like, well, did we not just both agree that we're not each other's types? She goes, no, no, I don't want to quit.

I don't want to quit. And I'm like, what? And then that was the first night we had intimacy. So I'll leave it there for putting in that for now. Are you writing a book or something? I am writing a book that has nothing to do with this, the conversation right now, but I do have a tell all that's going to be coming out soon where you'll get some more color and context. What do you mean to tell all?

I mean, we're here, son. Let's give it to us right now. There's no bigger platform. No, I'm certainly aware that this is the biggest platform of all. But I also would say that it's important for me to tell. more of the story that's going to be longer than the time of front of this interview, right?

So there's going to be an opportunity to hear more color, context, and some comedy around it too. And it's not going to be anti-niki, anti-show. It's all going to be just what does Sean experience?

Where can people find that? Coming soon to a platform near you. Okay. Okay. Going back to your relationship with Nikki, what do you think Nikki misunderstood the most about you? I don't think she misunderstood

anything about me. I like to validate people in their understanding of things. And I feel like what Nikki understood to be true about me was true for her. And if I have not learned anything more in this whole experiment is that you validate people's perceptions. You validate, validate, validate, validate. So I don't have anything to defend or to prove differently than how she understood me to be. And I still feel really grateful to have met her. I think she's a quality person who is beautiful on the outside and it really has a lot of love to give. And so I really hope she finds the perfect person for her. There is obviously so many couples and so many scenes. But like, am I misremembering? Like, did you not get upset about the belly comment?

Did we or was that in my miss? Oh, no, no. I was never upset about it. Okay. No. That, that, I was like, let's take that, let's have a roast. We were laughing. The conversation wasn't as presented. It wasn't like I said the tenants in Seattle seven and whatever. and then all of a sudden she started crying or sad. No, we were jabbing back and forth, and it was hilarious. Like, we were literally roasting each other in a funny way. Well, then why? To the point where it was just like, all right, cool.

Why did you say that you were going to tell the producers you're broken up? Because we had just gone through about six or seven bullet points of why we weren't compatible with each other. But I thought it was a roast. Yeah. And the roast proved that we literally weren't into each other, right? So I was like, well, it sounds like you're not into me. And maybe I'm dumb.

but your, like, your, like, your, like, your, like, your, like, roast. And, you know, the whole premise of a roast is you get your bunch of friends together and you really, you're kind of, you know, you, you point out each other's flaws, but it's, it's from a loving, and you set it, you know, saying, hey, let's just put it all on the table. What are we, like, pros and cons? But, like, wasn't it meant to be, like, to kind of address differences, but, like, knowing there's love there? Because the way you pitch it to me, it sounds like it's a safe space to be open. And then you were like, there's so much there we should break up. It was a little, am I not making sense?

Susie's here. Am I confusing? Yeah. No, no. I think you're making a lot of sense, actually. I think it's, you know, the kind of roast, which I won't go into for some of those details, but some of the roast that were being said from her end were clear to me that I was not the person she was looking for.

And so at the end of the roast, it was clear to me that even though we were last and having a good time, you're saying things that are literally deal breakers for you. So this is a sign that we are, we can just part as friends. Like, we were laughing and it was like, let's just kind of be friends and just move forward from here. I think it's the perfect opportunity. Let's call the producers. She laughed when you called her a New York 7?

We were both going back and forth, laughing and jabbing the entire time. Okay. And what were the, you can't, can you share anything so that she was like, that she said that you were like, oh, you, we can't be together? If you watch Mattel, you can learn. You can't even tell me where to find it, Sean. Well, I can tell you this. I can tell you this.

That was a very friendly night, and we had intimacy shortly after that roast, right? So you don't have intimacy after a roast if, you know, the night that you all saw in that one episode with me coming out of the room with my robe, that was the same night as a roast. You don't have that unless there was some kind of friendliness and kindness happening before that, right? I want to be clear, you know, I don't think, you know, one thing we talked about earlier in the show was, you know, a lot of stuff we were doing off camera. Nikki had asked, you know, please don't share that on camera. And I agreed and I never did. But then she brought up the, you know, the 10-7 comment on camera when I shared that off-camera, right?

So I was feeling a little betrayed by that. And then I realized, oh, okay, I have to be really careful. Obviously, what I say, what's happened? what's around. But it was just constantly that feeling of just like, okay, let me make sure I'm looking out for myself, protecting my words. And that's something I didn't do very well. And so to do it all over again, I would do it differently. But certainly I know that both Nikki and I did the best we could with how to be on TV for the first time. So with having had that conversation and you ending it with the idea that you guys should leave the show or whatever,

what made you not only get intimate, but also continue on the journey if you felt that you both weren't compatible with each other. That night of intimacy was the first step that I had seen from her to actually try to be fully all the way into the marriage. And I saw her try. And I have to give her a lot of credit for that. I think she really tried. And I think she was really surprised by the level of compatibility that we had physically.

And I think it led her to actually begin to do other things outside of physical that were more like typical wife, wifely, you know, type of behavior or whatever you will. You're careful. No, but like literally like, like just imagine this, right? The week after the intimacy happens, all of a sudden now she's like going grocery shopping, bringing in food. She's like, she's using my credit card for that. And she's like checking in on me while I'm at work.

How's your day going? It had never happened before that moment, right? All these things started happening that I was like, oh, like, this is what I've been looking for, right? And so when that started happening, that was so exciting for me. It made me feel like, okay, maybe this could actually be a thing. Gotcha. And did you genuinely think that there was an opportunity for you and for you and Nikki to end up married to each other? Yeah.

I mean, I was all in from the beginning. So I'd like, until that moment where I offered her like the last chance to get out, I had said I'm committed. Every day. I brought coffee every morning. I brought flowers every week. I made sure she was good at work. I gave her my credit card information for groceries.

I showed up as a husband every single day. And I've learned from some of the best men in the world. And so I know how to be a consistent, reliable partner. And yes, I made mistakes in front of everybody in the world on camera. But I'm the type of person that owns my mistakes, and I move forward from them, and I get better from them. So she saw that every single day. And I have all to be proud of for doing that.

I have a question. I'm curious because I feel like I've been in relationships where I have an experience and then, me and that person discuss the experience and we have completely different takeaways. And we're like, okay, we experienced that and perceive that so differently. And everyone says, there's your truth, my truth, and then the real truth. Obviously, the Wifely Duties comment when that aired and we saw that you addressed that on Instagram, which we, I think, appreciated the apology and the acknowledgement as, you know, viewers.

But I'm curious, like, watching this back, were there moments where you saw things and you were like, oh, you know what? like I perceive that entirely different. And moving forward, I'm going to be more aware that sometimes our own biases get in the way of like absorbing reality at times. Is that something that you, is that a takeaway that you had? Or do you still sort of feel like misunderstood or that you sort of like stand your ground with certain aspects of those conversations? Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest with you.

I've never used the word misunderstood. I won't say that. I don't think that's my experience. I think what people saw was their reality. accept that as valid. I also accept that like what I experienced in that reality was also very valid. And I think you can have two different truths that are completely on opposite sides of the perspectives depending on the person. And because you might see it from one way and it looks a certain color and I see it from another way and it looks a certain color. Right. So I, I, I no longer.

Sorry for jumping in. But I guess do you accept other people's experiences as truth? to it and have they in any way bled into your experience as more like, oh, that's valid, as maybe some constructive feedback? Yeah, I have an amazing support network with my family and friends. We do weekly family calls. I have a great group of guys I meet with every Tuesday. I receive feedback on a constant basis. And many of them, if not all of them, have watched the show and given me feedback, right?

So I'll be honest to you. It's almost like concentric circles where. the closer you are to my actual heart, the more likely the feedback gets into my heart, right? If I don't know you and you're a stranger who's commenting on my Instagram posts, I don't know if that's going to be how I'm going to rely on getting feedback about my life.

That's fair. That's fair. So, you know, it's all about just the closeness and relationships. And luckily, I have a community that's been strong before I got to the show and that remains strong after. So I constantly get feedback. And I actually believe that one of the things that I would have loved to be a part of the process, would have been more consistent feedback from experts

or people who knew us well to tell us how we were showing up in the relationship, because us doing it by ourselves and then doing it in group dinners with people that we also just met about getting feedback, it felt like there was more opportunity to use people that were closer to our inner concentric circle to actually get some honest feedback. But I take good feedback from them,

and I have changed and adapted my communication based on those that love me and care about. Did any of those people give you feedback on like a, do you have a tendency of competing with your partner? I think most of my feedback from people were about just being and sure that you are always validating your partner. Okay. Validating your partner, right?

And just staying focused on that. And I think that has been probably the number one piece of critical feedback that has informed me and shaped me the most. Gotcha. Okay. You know, like yourself, I have an amazing male role model of my father. And as a young man, I felt like I was a really well-intentioned guy, you know, and I wanted to show up.

And I had a desire to be a great partner. But, you know, it took some humbling and, you know, going on reality TV and seeing myself and life experiences that well-intentioned or not, I had to learn about some of my flaws. And something, you know, watching you, again, you seem like a very intelligent man. you seem like, again, well-intentioned. Like you seem like you want to, you know, dig deep both with your partnering yourself. But it came across oftentimes that you, like, it was more on a competition level with Nikki.

Like you were almost trying to one-up her at times. Is that just my lived experience or is it, do you feel like is there accuracy there watching it back? And is that fair criticism or my off base? No, I think it's, I think it's an accurate experience of yours. and many people. I think that's been a lot of the commentary

online as well. No, but am I just projecting or do you, do you, again, that's kind of a, like a, to say it's my lived experience is kind of a,

I don't know, kind of, does it feel like a cop out next? It's a little dismissive. Yeah, and listen, maybe you can be like, yeah, listen, like you're way off base.

Again, I haven't met you. I don't know you. This is my only chance to get to know you. It is an edited TV show. But so I am just curious, am I projecting my experiences on watching you,

which definitely happens in reality TV, or is that feedback, do you think that is fair? Yeah, I mean, look, I don't know how to say this without it sounding like I'm being dismissive of you, but I'm not. I really honestly think you said, is that my lived experience? Is that how you are, like, you know, receiving a criticism? And I'm saying yes, like, yeah, that is, I totally agree with you. Like, that is how people have perceived that.

And I'm not going to invalidate that. Like, I would say it this way for me. Well, I could be wrong. I mean, like, again, I could just be wrong. And that might, yeah. Well, let me offer this. Let me offer this. I don't think anybody is wrong about their perspective. I think your perspective is based on what you've been informed by. And if you're informed by what you see and those words trigger a certain feeling in you,

I validate that. That's 100% fair for you to feel that way. I never will invalidate that. Number two, I would say this as well. I literally, my friends and family who know me the most, know me well enough to know that I would not compete with a partner or a woman that I'm dating. If I'm presenting information in a strong way, it's because I'm attracted to people who are strong women. Similar to Nikki, I have dated similar like similar like sort of boss babes who are like really

good at their job and really high performing high level. And because of that, I'm typically used to sort of the more bantery, I say my thought, my opinion, you say yours and we agree to where we find the middle ground. I have rarely been in situations where I say my strong opinion and then it's perceived as being an attack or being an indictment on the other person's opinion. It's like, no, no, I can say I like green beans while you say you like corn and we can both have those two worlds that exist at the same time. And so I do think that sometimes the perception of me offering a different strong opinion than my partners is competition or combative. But the truth is I come from a background where people are very open and expressive, and we do it with care because

we don't think that being nice is the way to go. We think that being kind is actually saying, you got something in your teeth, and I'm going to tell you about it. And so that's the way that I choose to live this world. Yeah. No, I mean, I hear you and all that. I have 10 brothers and sisters, and we're very direct, and I'm a very direct person, and I hear a lot of what you're saying. I guess it's just more like I've had to learn, and again, maybe I'm just projecting, that sometimes my honesty and in relationships as I had the privilege and opportunity to look back on things. Again, like I like to argue, I like to debate, but like it, what I realize it sometimes turned into like a competition of being right. And, you know, and especially like when you have a partner

that you like to banter with and there's a, you know, you can be attracted to other people who have a similar competitive energy to you. Unintentioned or not, it can turn into if you kind of like let that go and I had to learn that. You know, it can turn into some competitive conversations, whether, like, you know, not that I would ever say, oh, I'd ever compete with my, you know, my partner, but I think it happened unintentionally more times than I realized, and I had to realize it about myself. And yeah, it just seems like maybe you're not there. Well, I would say this, you know, I'm certainly not perfect. No, no, yeah, I'm certainly not, I'm certainly not all the way healed. I'm healing I'm growing, I'm learning.

And Nick, I probably have a lot to learn from you based on what you've experienced, right? So I'm open to always learning from people. And I'm always open to learning about how people perceive me because relationships are mirrors. And mirrors show you who you really are, right? So I'm always open to that. But I would say this, like, you know, I can validate and see your point about how debates can turn to competition and trying to prove who's right. Like, that makes a lot of sense to me. And I would say this, because I do know.

that and I do feel that in my body when I'm actually in the debate. A lot of times, you know, what I don't think could be captured as well are moments where literally I acquiesce and I say, yeah, I don't need to win this. Like, I'm good. Like you win. Every argument is you. And you'll notice that a lot of times when conversations were brought up about problems in the relationship, I think you'll notice that it was pretty much one-sided. I had never really brought up. This is what I think you're doing wrong, even though I could have easily said this is what I think is wrong. So I certainly want to learn. I want to grow.

Okay. You think I found ways to do what you said? Yeah, I felt like you found your ways to, I felt like we were aware of your feelings about Nikki. What were my feelings about Nikki? I mean, you know, I don't want to say, but like, you both like, listen, like you both were not like you had your, you know, as you said, neither. you know, and that's okay.

It's okay to like not, but I'm just saying, I think we learned about things that you didn't love about Nikki through this process without, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, you found your ways. Yeah, certainly.

But, you know, but the way I bring it up, Nick, is by directly saying, hey, you know, I'd love to talk to you about this. This is what I'm concerned about. This is what I'm thinking about, right? I am not going to start out by saying, hey, I'm so embarrassed to say this

because I'm going to embarrass you. tonight or hey you know you never have my back you never defend me i i would never bring it up in a way that's going to put my partner at an odds i want my partner to align with me right so like you said i found ways but the ways i tried to find were by just addressing directly i'm concerned this is what i'm feeling this is what i'm noticing am i right about that clarify for me did it like do you feel like it landed absolutely not i mean we're not married no yeah It didn't work. Yeah.

I'm, you know, and I really appreciate taking the time, Sean, and allow us to ask these questions. I think at just the point I'm trying to get across is, and I've been there, I'm still there. You know, we're all work in progress, as you've pointed out. But I think for people who are who like to argue, they're used to arguing, you know, I like to argue. I like to argue. I like to debate. I like to discuss. A lot of us like to be right and often are. and I think sometimes we get good to explaining why we didn't intend it

for it to land the way that we did and I think sometimes we've gotten really good at explaining ourselves explaining that we come from a certain family or that our brains work a certain way and blah blah blah blah blah blah and you seem really good at that and you still seem good at that

a year later and you seemed really good at it while dating Nikki in a way that I think it would be frustrating from Nikki's standpoint because it's like it's like I'm not doing it like you, I'm doing it better, even in your explanation of how you do things. And that can get a little old. And I wonder if, yeah, that's, I guess, from a point. I hear you. I mean, again, I'm not going to disagree with anything you say or invalidate you

because I think, I think you have, I think you have a valid point. I think there's a lot of things that I am learning and growing in. And I think getting better at not debating, not trying to win, not trying to compete. Those are all things I want to be better at. 1,000 percent, right? And so I come from its position of, yeah, I didn't do that experiment great. And there were a lot of things

that could have been a lot better that I wanted to work and improve on. And I actively work on with my men's group and my family and my friends and people that care about me. I actively work on it all the time. And so please don't hear my comments to you as this position I'm taking of holding firm

to like, I did things better than Nikki. No, that's not my position. My position is I'm still learning and growing. And yeah, there might be some things that you saw last year that you feel like you see now that may be the same in five years. And there's some things that may be changing in the next five minutes. But all of it is part of the growth. And I just want to be a human and normal in this experiment. And I tried to bring my most authentic self.

Are you in a relationship today? I will not be commenting on any relationship status. Cameras aside, would you go through matchmaking again? or do you think that relationships, you just need to sort of feel that like genesis quo in person? Like, would you let somebody set you up again? Or do you just want to figure this out for yourself? Yeah, I'm open.

I'm kind of one of those people that, like, I follow that intuition that tells me where to go. Like, even joining this, I think I was the last applicant of the 105,000 applicants for Married at First Site because it was the last day, They were like, Dr. Best, where have you been? Can you come tomorrow? It's our last day of filming.

And I'm like, okay. And so I follow the intuition. If it's matchmaking again, sure. If it's a friend setting me up, sure. But it's got to feel right in here before it's right as a decision out there. Sean, I appreciate taking the time. And thanks for asking our questions. And good luck with everything and your tell-all.

And maybe we'll get more tea. Awesome. And Nick, what show were you on? I don't think I know this. I was The Bachelor a long time ago. Oh, okay. Cool. Very nice. Sorry, I just, I'm not, I wasn't a reality TV person before the show. Not at all. And I'm not one now. Understood. So, nice to meet you. Hopefully I get to be in person. Likewise. Now that you've been on reality TV, you'll appreciate the, the reality scene more.

It's interesting to watch through the lens of a former reality person. If you're willing, Sean, it's, you can really learn about the human experience. And, well, Nick, I need you to, all that wisdom you were sprinkling earlier. about Sean how you need to work on yourself. Let's hang out. I'm not saying you need to work on yourself. I was just curious of just kind of where you're at. That's all. I'm not here to tell you what you do.

No, no, you dropped it on me. So we got to kick you, have a beer. We got to talk about. We got to talk about it. I support this. I think you guys need to go out for a drink. I support. That's right.

That's right. Sounds great. All right, my guy. On me. Sean, thanks for taking the time. Best of luck with everything. And really appreciate you. Yeah, same.

All right. Thank you all. Thank you, Sean. Nice to meet you. We wish you the best. Thank you. Nice to meet you as well. Bye.

Wow. How do we feel, ladies? That was loaded. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys understand what I was saying? Like, he just keeps just... Yes, I do.

You know, it's like... He's like, I didn't do this. I did that. But like, you... You know? Well, here's how I thought. I didn't want to say it because I'm like, I feel like he's not here to like be critique,

but how I felt and I do have compassion for him. I actually do think he wants to be a better person. He wouldn't be in a men's group reading books. He wouldn't be doing those things if he didn't like want to grow. But it's hard because every time he gives a response to something, he finds a way to take a little dig. And it's like, okay, your apology or you're addressing that issue now sort of means less because you just took a little dig with it. And it's like, just own it. It feels like the self growth more, it comes out as like ammunition. Yes, it does. You know, it's like I'm doing this and I'm doing this. And and I, you know,

this is your, this is, it's so condescending his like, this, I don't mean it that way, but I just don't think it lands. He just doesn't see how it lands. I know. Well, it was bothering me during the interview and he kept bringing up the fact that she was intimate with him as if it was like a validation. Yeah, like a goal post or like, well, yeah, she might have felt this way. I've always been all in, but she was intimate. She was intimate. And the whole thing with, obviously I'm going to ask about the intimacy.

Right. If it basically set it up as like, well, yeah, it didn't, it didn't come across the way because. what you didn't get to see is it was like my idea to do a roast. I come from a family of roasters, essentially is what she's saying. And then we all had fun. And then she started, then she roasted me. And then like professional, it was professional roasters team turn. So I let her have it.

And it was your game. It was your idea. Yeah. You know? And then like, and then by your own admission, you're like, I'm like, I was raised in this shit. I don't want to be with this person. You know, I'm a pro here. And then I, it was like, wait, this isn't, I don't know.

It was like, it was the same behavior from the reunion where it was like instead of taking accountability or, you know, everything was like an explanation more so. Like it was like, I was validated and why I did what I did because what you didn't see. And it's like, well, there's a reason why we didn't see that. So I'm just kind of like, again, where I'm like, yes, it makes more sense that if you guys were going back and forth in an honesty conversation and she was like, I'm not attracted to you. and that hurt your feelings, but you guys were allowed to lightly insult each other, then I'm like, okay, yeah, there's context from that conversation that's definitely taken out of place that doesn't make it seem so insane for you to say something like that. But I'm just kind of like, nothing's making sense to me.

Like if you came to the conclusion that you two should not be together or that was what she was saying post-Rost, then why did you want to be intimate with her that night? Why did you want to carry on this experiment if you think that someone's not attracted to you, you guys aren't compatible, that you guys went through nine bullet points of why it didn't work. And then you guys went all the way to the end to not get married knowing you weren't going to get married. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, even their final day together when they make the decision, it like kind of started out a little bit nice. And then it was like downhill. Yeah. And I will say I think she led

with some of her pain points, understandably. I feel like she was misunderstood a lot during the experience and was like struggling. But then it was like his, it is very condescending. The way when he responded back to her, I was just like, oh my God, this is so brutal. Like he just needs to take the dig back and he couldn't just accept it or say his feelings. Or be the bigger person and be like, okay. Yeah. I don't think it's gas lighting, but the way he just hawks around things and just has a way of

of making whoever he's talking, you know, feel like. I think it's important to validate your partner. I think it's important that when somebody shares their perspective, it's nice to be able to say, I hear your perspective. I might disagree, but X, Y, and Z. But when you guys were having this discussion, Nick, for like 45 minutes, it was almost like he validate.

It's like his defense mechanism was to be like, I'm going to let you think whatever you want because you're allowed to think that. And then at the same time invalidate what you're saying, by saying, oh, well, everyone's perception is real. It's like, yeah, but you can have me. Just tell me I'm wrong. Just tell me I got it wrong. Maybe it's the edit, maybe, you know, whatever.

Just tell me I'm wrong. I don't, I just have, just answer. Anyway. Then you never get to the root problem of it because you're just like validating. You're like, and I couldn't imagine if that was like, you know, again, I'm just, he doesn't owe me anything. But if I was in a relationship with that trying to get to the bottom of something, I can, I can see how you would never get there.

You'd never get to the bottom. But even like, just to compare a, couple, but I was like, I feel like Adam and Marissa were kind of in the same boat, right, where it's like they have a lot of incompatibilities, but had a mutual respect for each other, even their breakup. It started off with like, so nice, so nice, so nice. And then here are the cons. And this is why we're not going to get together. But it was like, Adam accepted what she was saying. Marissa accepted what Adam said. And it was kind of like an, okay, like amicably split, but we still have respect, hug, love, by where it was just kind of like the second that Sean felt insulted or taken back by something

that Nikki said. It was like, all right. Well, and also here's the other one. And then we're going back and forth to where it just like progressively gets more and more toxic. Yeah. That I'm just like it doesn't need to end like that. But it's just like if you're not willing to hear any type of criticism without taking it as an attack that deserves a reaction back, then I'm like, yeah, this is how your interactions are going to go. Well, I hope you guys enjoy. enjoyed those interviews. Fascinating stuff from both of them. So I hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Thank you to all our guests, Brooke Marks, Nikki and Sean. We appreciate them all. I appreciate you guys listening. Don't forget to tune in tomorrow. We have Corbyn. He's not an AI. He's a real person and he is in studio. We had an opportunity to interview him following the filming of the reunion. And it was a great sit down with Corbyn to learn about just the man behind the chat cheap. P-T voice, his all experience in the villa. We get to the bottom of a lot of the topics,

and I'm excited for you guys to hear it. That is all tomorrow. And then we have another jam-packed episode on Thursday with more cast members from Meredith FirstSight and more. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.