The Viall Files - E1183 - Love Island Reunion, Tori & Nick MAFS + DWTS Cast Reveal

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Nick and Tori from Married at First Sight join us to get into Courteney, Felipe, the reunion, dating after the show, and whether they'd ever do reality TV again. Plus, we talk the official DWTS lineup, Love Island reunion fallout, Clayton's latest update, and why post-villa fame is already getting messy. You won't want to miss it!   "Whatever he's taking, I want some of that." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter   To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix Sleep: Go to hhttps://elixsleep.com/viall for their 2026 Labor Day Sale of UP TO 30% OFF. Mint Mobile: To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to https://mintmobile.com/viall  Rosetta Stone: If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire! Our listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today! Puori: Use code VIALL at https://puori.com/viall to get 32% off your first order of Puori Grass-fed Whey Protein when you start a subscription. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles    Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall  @nataliejoy @nickuhlenhuth @tori_dahl @susiecevans @jsotos1 @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @baybaeee

Did you play any sports, Susie? I dabbled in everything. I swam. I did soccer. Were you more nerdy or were you a popular kid? I was Homecoming Queen and Prom Queen. Oh my God. Okay.

And I was friends with everybody because I loved everybody. You've always been crushing. So if your high school reunion, it wouldn't be like, oh, look at what she made of herself. I'd be like, that fucking bitch. So for like superlatives, would have been like most likely to be famous? I actually won most likely to be famous. Yeah, check's out. That's the alert.

funny. I planned the high school reunion and stuff like that and I feel like I'm very like I want everyone to come together. I'm just like a team player. We had no reunions. My, your class president didn't. We didn't have a, we didn't have a 10 to 5 at 15 or maybe I'm just not invited. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Val Files reality recap edition. My wonderful, gorgeous sexy wife. There it is. There it is. I like it. I like it. I don't care what the people say. Okay. We got Jimmy and Susie on the couch. How's everyone doing? Great. How are we feeling? Amazing. Fabulous.

Great. Just had a great cup of coffee. Here at the lake, I'm the barista. I'm not going to like, I just saw you deliver a latte to Natalie. Tell them about it, babe. Looks kind of gorge. Listen, I've always been, as you all know, my like French vanilla coffee mate or international delight creamer and a regular pot of coffee kind of girl. And then, But when I'd go out, I'd obviously get a nice vanilla latte. And then I was like, you know what? My dad actually bought the Breville espresso machine for our wedding.

That's what you got us. Nick's been experimenting while we're up at the lake. And he has perfected a latte with honey and brown sugar. And now I'm like, oh, my God, make this for me every single day of our lives. Three times cubes of brown sugar, a generous amount of honey. Not too much, though. You got to mix that in the hot. coffee.

So it melts. And then put the ice and milk. Perfection. I've never tasted it. Do you want to taste it on camera? No, it's not for me. Okay. This is also my love language, so.

Yeah, Jimmy's a big coffee guy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What is your go-to coffee order, Jimmy? I've been on a quartado kick for about a year now. I love a cortado. Yeah. Okay. Perfect ratio of espresso to milk right there.

Okay. Yeah. How much milk? Is that a little bit of milk? Not too much. It's a one-to-one ratio. of espresso to milk. One to one.

Equal parts. Just like a happy relationship, right? That's what you want. 50, 50. 50. Okay. I actually like that. It's just like I, you must drink a lot of caffeine then.

Oh yeah, minimum four a day. Really? Yeah. How's your nervous system? I'm trying to cut that back, but. Jittery, just say the least. Jittery. That's why I'm always on.

How's your stomach? That's a good question. Jittery. It ebbs and flows. I have IBS so it doesn't help. Well, we have a jam-packed episode for you as always. Nick and Tori from Married at FirstSight join us later this episode. It's a real fun they join us together and it's a fun kind of roundtable conversation about their experience. They come in with

some stories and some tea and some tea and some tea. And some tea. And it was great to chat with both Nick and Tori and excited for you guys to listen to that that conversation that we have with them. If you haven't listened to the Corbyn interview that the going deeper with our time in Corbyn, that dropped yesterday. So be sure to check that out. Really enjoyed our time with Corbyn. Really, especially someone who like came across is so kind of rigid as they say AI. It was great to know the person, Corbyn. So if you haven't listened to it, be sure to check that out. We did have the Love Island reunion. Well, we'll obviously we'll dive into. But before we do, obviously, the Lindsay Clancy jury is, they're still deliberating. They're deadlocked. Maybe by the time this episode airs, there will be some kind of verdict.

but that's got to be so frustrating to like be like we've been in here for 17 hours we're deadlocked and the judge is like listen I'm going to have to ask you to go back in because like they'll have to got to figure it out it's like how do you million well objectively they would have to try it again which is going to cause you know cost millions of more dollars I mean I don't even think I don't think society has the appetite to cover this again if they come out deadlock again and they're like listen like we cannot get so she So she goes home. No, no, no.

She probably doesn't go home. But she would be tried again. The state, the state, you would have to. I thought you can't be tried for the same crime twice. Once convicted or proven innocent. If you're proven innocent, you can't be tried twice. Yeah. But it's like a mistrial.

Again, like where do we draw the line? You know, like we have stopped having the ability to say postpartum is a real thing. we need more awareness from still being able to say, but you can't murder your kids. And being able to have both empathy and accountability at the same time and too many people online have lost the plot.

And it just doesn't feel organic. You know, it does, you know, five years ago, this could have, this horrible thing could happen. And we, I feel like society could have a little bit more of a level-headed conversation about this. and it's just, I saw someone online being like,

who thinks like the husband did it. And there's like, there's too many of us who're all saying the same thing. And it's like, instead of recognizing maybe you've all been influenced by the algorithm,

you know, in a bubble, you're just thinking, we can't be wrong because too many of us are saying the same thing. And it's like, what?

It's like, man, algorithms box you into that echo chamber and then you just are literally ignorant to the other side. Yeah. Because it's like, this is all I see.

every time I scroll it's all I see there can't be any other opinions out there and everybody agrees with me yeah I just we got to be careful to like not you know again you can recognize the problem but at some you know like I don't know it's just like it's dangerous you know it will be fascinating to see what happens with this case and I'm just more curious about like what's the fallout like I just that's what I was going to say like so just essentially like what happens if they can't reach a verdict on this trial. A mistrial would be declared and the case essentially goes back to the same

status as before this trial with the 36 year old. Clancy being charged with murder held at a psychiatric hospital awaiting a resolution of the criminal case. She would likely go back on trial but prosecutors have some options. They would decide whether to try again

with a new jury. If they do, the jury selection process will begin again and a new trial will be scheduled. Prosecutors could also offer a plea deal to Clancy I feel like a new jury is going to be absolutely impossible. I mean, with now this being as nation. How do you find someone who's never heard about it? And if they haven't heard of it, then I also don't want them on the jury because where have you been?

I literally know I'm scared of you. My homies boot chat. For my homies, do you be talking about it? I'm like, yeah, this. What is the discourse with the boy, the young men? Not to out the boys, but they have their concerns. They need more context. Okay.

They need more context. The third potential outcome of the case is that this is a lot less likely, but the district's attorney office could decide not to retry the case. Lindsay Clancy is currently being held at a state-run psychiatric facility throughout her pretrial detention. Yeah. So the facility has become her long-term residence since the events. So she would probably just stay there is my assumption of it. If something happened where I lost my mind and did this terrible. act. I don't want the world's grace or sympathy. Everything can't be explained through the lens of empathy

and someone else's, it being someone else's fault. I'm trying to be sensitive to that like mental health, like, illness that I never would know what that's like. But I agree, like, you got to draw the line somewhere and I feel like murdering your children is the line. Yeah. And there are millions of other women who suffer from this horrible thing who don't do that. The way some people are trying to make her the symbol or the face of postpartum depression, I think is not helpful for the cause. No, Amanda Hirsch, skinny but not fat, had a great post take on this. I won't read the full thing, but if you're interested, you can. But she basically just said, I feel like we're losing the plot a little bit.

Three babies were killed. They had their entire lives ahead of them. Yes, their mother was very sick. That's devastating, but it wasn't their fault. They were strangled to death methodically and left to die in the basement. my friend said to me, isn't everyone who kills someone mentally ill to some extent? And obviously, it's more complicated than that, especially legally, but it really made me think about where we draw that line. And it's, she says, but the fan base, the GoFund me, the way people are rallying behind her, almost like she's a celebrity, genuinely scares me a little bit about where we are as a society.

I just don't want our compassion to somehow turn into excusing or minimizing what happened to her children. There you go. Perfectly said Amanda. That is very well said. This just made me think. Did you guys see that the baby mama drama with Clayton, the girl, Laurel Owens actually pled guilty? Yeah. Yes.

So my ex, the guy that was the bachelor, Clayton Eckerd, was accused of getting a girl pregnant and then all of this crazy stuff. And it's been three years of trials and she did this to other men. And finally, after three years, but it's a plea deal. So she didn't actually play guilty guilty to everything. There were several charges like 14 felonies. Right. So she pled guilty to three or four. Like the lesser of two evils in her eyes.

Yes. You know it's also fucked up about that whole thing. What? Tell me. The way the mainstream press ignored that. Exactly. Crazy. They were so uninterested in Clayton's innocence. And it like we had them on and there were other other shows that that followed the case.

But the mainstream didn't touch it. Even though it was like it was crazy. It just, again, it also. felt inorganic. It is literally true crime. A bachelor was being gone-girled. I mean, that was a movie version, but like she did the same thing where she was, she had a plan. She did this with multiple people. There were other boyfriends who had similar stories to him. There were so many similarities between that crazy movie in this real life situation. She wore a fake belly to court. Like, where do you draw the line again? Like, injected hormones and

herself to be able to pee on a pregnancy test for it to pop positive. Like, the extent that she went is so bizarre. It is, like, chilling. Well, we also have the Dancing with the Star's official lineup that came out. And everyone who was rumored is, in fact, confirmed. Okay. No, breaking news here. It's an interesting cast.

You have some star-studded big names when it comes to the women cast. And then you have more, like, up-and-coming niche. Man, I mean, random. Not random. I mean, they all have their respective audiences and they all like make sense in their own right. It's just more like in general is a collection of like some, you know, more mainstream names, like someone who's like an A-lister.

Like Julia Stiles is a huge name. Julia Stiles. It's a huge name. Like what an incredible get for Dancing with the Stars. Incredible. I have a confession. What? I hope my mom's not listening.

But the only name I recognize is Guillermo. Wait, really? Yeah. Good for you. Honestly, good for you. And I love Garamo, but that's all I got. Maura Higgins, Sierra Miller. I've heard Tyler Cameron, and he's

You're going to love him. He's great. Yeah. I mean, he's maybe the most mainstream name on the men's list. Yeah, because I'm familiar with that name. And I love Dancing with the Stars because of Amman Shumpert, Chicago basketball player. Well, running through the list, we've got Julia Stiles, Jenna Dewan, Tatiana Ali, Taylor Hanson

Ezra French Oh, okay Hanson He's the biggest Former Taylor Hanson brothers Who's that? Oh

They're like a pop Like the band They were massive He's the big That's big That's big Sorry guys I'm still

I didn't know his name This is maybe not your generation But like they have The Hanson brothers Mmbop Mbap I don't know if anyone

We can recognize that Yeah That's it Yeah, Mama, I know Mama if you watch it. Okay. Okay. All right. That's a big name.

Continuing, we've got Amber Glenn, Connor Wood, Sarah Jane Nader, Tyler Cameron, Giata de Larentez, Harry Shum Jr., Connor Levit, Guillette, Guillet, Guillet, Guillet, Giac, Guillet, Guillet, so. This will be a big test for the Levitt name. Like, you know. They also brought in some new pros for this. I mean, we brought back Sharna Burgess. Yeah, Sharna's back dancing with Tyler. Have they announced the couples yet?

They have, yeah. Okay. Yes, they do. There's a couple notable ones. Sarah Jane Nader is partnering with Haley Bills. Not only is it a female duo, but I do think they both, I mean, this is me just, you know, putting a piece of the puzzle together, but I think they both have religious backgrounds because Sarah J. Nader is like small town Louisiana, Christian, and now she is openly bisexual.

And then Haley Bills is from Salt Lake City, I think from the Mormon community. She's friends with all the same Salt Lake City dancers. Haley is Jenna Johnson's niece. Stunner. I mean, I'm just going to put it out there. That's going to be my, yeah, I was going to say, I am going to be locked in for that pairing. Beautiful. We also have Connor Levitt with the new next pro winner, Adele Zichmann.

So congrats to Adele. If you guys didn't watch that finale, oh my gosh, there was no other option to me. I mean, her dance moves, her choreography. I was like I've never wanted to be a dancer more It was literally I mean to me I was like that's a pro It was so good She stood out amongst the very talented guys

I also loved Selena's moments Were really good too Selina was great like wow moment choreography Yeah I thought AJ should have won Oh really? Yeah You thought I like AJ Really? Yeah I thought AJ cold Did you like his online drama too?

No I didn't know about his tea I thought as a dancer like technically I thought he And as like a coach, I thought he was cold. Okay. You were judging from a technical standpoint? Hey, one thing about me is I grew up a dancer. I know my mom's side. My dad's side is basketball.

My mama was a pom-pom girl. He knows that dolphin move when he sees it. I was brought up in this world. Yeah, point to toe. Come on now. I do find it interesting that Jenna Dewan is partnered with Val. Obviously, she is a very experienced dancer and he is like considered one of the best pros.

And so I do, like you'd think maybe she'd be with one of the the newer ones to kind of even out the playing field. It's actually a disadvantage for her. She won't be able to pull the, you know, the improvement. She'll just, she's going to be, you know, like people want to see. I think it's going to be, I mean, like Whitney Levitt, like she was so good every time they went out that it was just so fun to watch because you were like, this is just such a performance.

Yeah, but I mean, despite like I think a lot of people, when fans of Whitney, like, aware of her talent, she, you know, she became a star as a mom as a mom on. reality TV. And for a lot of people who weren't familiar with her, seeing her just absolutely crush it, was like, oh, damn. And she can also do this. With Jenna Dewan, most people were introduced to her as a dancer, as a performer. And so the, I can't believe she, she's also amazing at that is, I think, it'll be interesting how, you know, like, that's a big part of the Dancing with the Stars vote and the way, like, fans connect with the dancers. They didn't bring back. Sasha? Yeah, no, Sasha. Yeah. No, Sasha. Yeah.

Yeah. He comes and goes. Yeah, he comes and goes. I don't think he's been on the past couple. He was partnered with Jen Tran. Yeah, when Jen was on, she was not on last season? I think he might have skipped the last season. Yeah.

Maybe it's a height thing. I mean, he often is paired with someone who's shorter. My money's on Guillermo. Okay. Okay, that's your, okay. Who do I want to? I mean, I have to go. Tyler's a ball.

Yeah, Tyler. I was going to say, Tyler. I think Tyler. Cameron, he's one. He's a charmer. He's a charmer. He's a good-looking lad. Yeah.

He's going to have people's hearts, but he's going to be good, too. And having Sharna back, I think she had, like, her, this being her first season back in a while, like, that's going to pull out a lot of people. I think, yeah, I think that's just. I'm excited to see that duo. Underdog, who's not really an underdog, I think Connor Wood is going to be really good. I think his fan base is strong. Oh, he's a cutie. His charm.

Him and Riley both single. Are we going to get our show? from them or? I hope so. I think people are going to eat them up together, whether they're single or not. That's one thing about like, I don't know if I could ever date a dancer because they get intimate on stage. Like that is another level like intimacy.

I don't know if I'm secure enough with like just watch my partner do that. Yeah. They like the way they lock eyes in that moment. And they touch the back of the head. Gleb also isn't there. Well, when you have too many people being like. do you think Sarah Jane Nader they were like we're not having

like a Nader sister and Gleb on the same season? I don't think it's just more practical like they I think you had a lot of the women who were like his reputation right now is not great and they were just like I don't want to dance with them you know and why would it's like it's not a good storyline to put Sierra or or Mora in that situation

and then like Julia Stiles like yeah you know um they'll Fine. They'll bring him back. Well, if Tyler doesn't win dancing with the stars, he can always go and work at Hooters because they are now hiring men to...

Yeah. Inclusivity. Can we take a class trip? We can take a class trip for research. Now it's his TGR Friday. For research. Now it's just Chili's. I do feel like they need to change the name to like Hooters and hangers, you know.

Are the men going to be sexualized? We're going to be fitted in Chippendales outfits. I heard that they're wearing the same Uniform your uniforms so if the shorts are the same Length Then Jimmy can work there If anyone see Jimmy's recent Social media activity he's got the smallest

Those are some short shorts Hey one thing about me is I'm going to commit to the bit Where did you find those And the wardrobe that was not You know for me it's for the girls But I was like you know what let's do it The legs were popping Okay athleticism

You know we don't normally see the legs out like that He's called me a quadrosaurus Rex Quadrusaurus Rex Quadrosaurus Rex is right What's the point? When was the last time you went to Hooters? It's been a long time. I've never really enjoyed it.

Terrible food. I go for the food, not for the experience. Thank you, Susie. The point is not for you. It is for us. And we were tired of going with our men and our men being like, Mm-hmm.

And we wanted to accept to look. I've actually never stepped out to Hooters. The fried pickles are great. I know. You like their food? They're fried pickles. Oh my God. They're so good.

Huh. I used to work by one when I worked in pharmaceutical marketing and it was down the tree from my office and I would go by myself. What would you order? Hi ladies, it's me again. I would get fried pickles like once a week. It would be like my little treat on Friday. Do you remember your first Hooters trip? I definitely remember mine. Whenever it was, I remember being thoroughly unimpressed.

Yeah. What? How old were you? Yite. High school. High school. Okay. I was like seventh, eighth grade. I remember just perfect age. Like, you know. Yeah, your height was probably perfect at that point.

Yeah, I just remember being like overstimulated. Just like, who did you go with, Jimmy? Care less about the Buffalo Wigs. My basketball coach took our entire team. Maybe the Hooters in middle of Wisconsin wasn't serving. I think I would like that better. You know what I'm saying? Went to the Hooters in Memphis.

I like him homegrown. Homegrown. Just like me. You like grass fed, honey. Natural ma'am. What's her double lives? 100%. That's my mental.

Oh my gosh. Well, we have... The Love Library Union is dropped. It's in the can. It's what did we learn? Well, first and foremost, it sounds like the one who had maybe the worst experience was Kada. She's definitely, she's allegedly lost over 100,000 followers.

It's crazy. People think she's like up on her high horse, that she was mean. She was like slut shaming. She misspoke. I know I didn't like I didn't like it yeah I didn't like the comment either her demeanor the energy she like came in with like she was like defensive about things

that didn't necessarily even warrant how do you guys feel about that how do you guys feel about the fans quite literally using their follow is is like a currency or like weaponizing their follow in the way of like you know it's a day to day like do I fuck with you or if I not do I not and like unfollowing if you had no clue who like any of those people were and you just like watch that reunion not having any context you could tell who had the most

followers just based on like how almost entitled like the way people acted yeah I would agree with that and I do think that you made a good point Nick I do think followers are currency and in a way like just in society as well we vote with our dollar so where you're putting your money and where you're putting your follow it is letting people know like where your values are and like I know me personally as a consumer, if somebody gives a bad take, I'm not going to unfollow them. If they give a take, I don't agree with them, I'm not going to unfollow them. If they say something that I feel like genuinely disrupts my morals or like my nervous system where I'm like, I cannot be a part of supporting this person and allowing them to like make money, I'm going to unfollow them. And so I think

when people, I think people responding with an unfollow kind of speaks to like the pain people feel. I don't know watching that. I was like, wow, this feels like a mean girl kind of. And I didn't like it. It made me feel like, I don't know. I wouldn't want to be in a room where I'm on the receiving end of that because it didn't feel fair. Especially coming from Kada, her relationship with Zach isn't perfect, you know. And also like it's a weird blurred line of what their relationship is because they're not boyfriend and girlfriend, but they're exclusive.

So her to like be weighing in on Jaden and Caleb's situation. And it was just like, why are you involved in yourself right now? I also saw a lot of discourse about Melanie and Kinsey, how it was kind of like, they were saying that Melanie, you know, was being, accusing the mean girl, you know. She was like at her neck. And then they're crying saying, saying, I love you. That was just like some girls shit. That's kind of what they were saying was like you were mean to her until she started crying.

And then it was like, oh, let me say and give you a hug and let's go out to dinner. Like this feels like me. I was lost. I didn't love that either. Yeah. It just seems like ever since season six, the evolution of Love Island and the way, I have a ton of empathy for what these islanders have to experience.

There's nothing out there that replicates how popular it is right now, you know, coming out of the show and this instant reaction and dealing with all that, like, no doubt is a challenge. I think that most of them are making huge mistakes of how they're moving post-filming. Because like outside of maybe Bryce and Trinity are going to have, the Elandria arc where they're just going to be they're going to have some staying power and they're going to they're going to have probably limitless opportunities and a lot of them

are going to have a lot of opportunities but they're being and I get it they're they're probably scared to say anything and don't know how to move when the reason why you are famous or have a following is because of your personality and then you know and then you are very restricted of what you show people and you allow people to create narratives they're not willing to get out there and kind of let the audience learn about who they really are outside of Love Island and therefore will be quickly forgotten.

Can I ask you about the Caleb situation then? Because the audience is kind of learning about who Caleb quote unquote really is. Yeah, we didn't learn he's a little bit of, we learned he's following in like the Rob Roch footsteps where like he started with the same, right here has the same reps.

And do you think, you know, like he's trying to follow in those footsteps but his appeal wasn't necessarily that. His appeal was like the nice guy. Yeah, like the sweet boy that like was wronged. I think you can be both. I think that's why what I'm fascinated at what always interests me in why we do this show is to learn how like on reality TV people get siloed into an oversimplified persona.

Caleb was the sweet boy. And the truth is it's like, you know, you can be you can be a 21 year old heartthrob who's overall a gentleman and generally has a sweet demeanor. And you can still like want to like hook up, you know, and fuck around. and maybe still lack some communication skills because you're 21 where you might need some notes and how you handle a situation and maybe it requires, you know, maybe it results in some hurt feelings. It doesn't necessarily make you a horrible guy.

You know what I'm saying? Like I think you can be both, right? I think we learned that Caleb is, in fact, 21. In fact. Yeah. And he has to deal with learning how to go about being a single dude like with millions of followers now. It's going to be tough for him.

It's going to be awesome and tough at the same time. The in crowd of Love Island, the OGs, the finalists, like they can still critique Caleb and not, like, you know, want to rally behind him because he's their boy and he's part of the, you know, because that's, you know, to your point, it always kind of gives, like, people know they feel like the authority they have or the clout they have relative to their peers and they feel like speaking up

and defending each other in a way that doesn't often make sense. That power dynamic is crazy. It was wild to watch Soul Like spin her exaggerations or quote unquote lies that you know just the way that she Tried to make them- Be forced to walk them back It was just when they're like you said that Bryce pulled Kada three or four times and she's like did you not pull her twice and they're all like no it was one time She's like okay but you stood on the red dot and tried to leave the relationship

It's like whoa what that like that happened before you were even there like what is going I think Sol's never been rejected in her life. And she shut up to La Violet and she obviously had an early exit. And I think she can't make heads or tails of it. Like one plus one is not equaling two in Soul's mind. That seems like the only reason because she seems like a fairly level-headed person. But why is she to this point just so I've never seen someone have such a short period of time make such a meal.

Like trying to like explain why they were right. Like, you had kind of everyone on your side until you kept leaning in. Sympathy is a dangerous drug is what it seemed like to me because I agree. I remember you being on the show and you saying soul had the most aura of anybody in the villa. And I left the show feeling like, oh, I'm rooting for her. I want to see her do big things. And then the way she came out online, I was like, wow, like you are, this is so different. But I think it's getting a taste of that sympathy that everyone felt where it's like, we want more of you.

like we want to see you and people hyping you up and telling you've been done dirty and then it's like it gets yeah you know I don't know spirals yeah I'm let that feed into her complex or her reality or her experience as everybody fucking says everybody's throwing up that's my experience that's my perspective that was my lived experience what is going on like what's the actual truth I like you don't know what they're I mean we all obviously saw it play out so we have some semblance of what the truth is even though it's overly produced and edited, but like... Can we shout out? Trinity. Anaya. T.T.

I'm going to say it. I did not think I was going to be, like, the biggest T.T. fan after Fire Pit Night. Like, I just... I was like, I don't know. I feel like she came in hot with the girls. And the way she moved from that day forward, literally the next episode of her being so honest

and so, like, putting her guard and her ego down and just, like, talking to the girls. And the way she moved in the reunion, all three of those women showed so much grace. I don't think they're getting talked about enough because it like wasn't that dramatic because they were they all seem like pretty healthy and healed. But the three of them I was like, okay, I think they need their flowers. And I think people are losing the plot a little bit with social media because everyone brings up my experience. And they were also all bringing up likes.

Like you liked this comment. You liked this comment. I'm like, guys, get off the internet. It has me terrified because I'm active on the internet. Like, I'm like, yo, like, if anybody would have like do a scouting report on me, like, I'm not just like a shit. I'm commented. Like, I'm super active. And I didn't realize people read into that so much.

How do you also find all of the comments that everyone has liked? I mean, truly, like Bailey said, get off the internet. Like, how are you that aware? There's such an easy rebuttal to that. Like, why are you liking this? Why are you liking that? Like, these are clearly the people that are my fans and are supporting me. And I want them to feel like, I see you and I appreciate you.

Like, boom, here's your like. Keep having my back on the internet. But, like, nobody's... And I felt like the comment that Shay liked a comment about Keda Fumbling. him and I felt like the way she just kind of like shut him down where it was like you're like in these comments and I'm like but that really doesn't even

have anything to do with you it's more so him being like yeah I feel fumbled I'm a catch you know like I went on this show he's allowed to feel that way and he sacrificed the same way that those other islanders sacrificed and half of no not even half a handful of them come out with millions of followers millions of dollars and then the other ones get sat on a couch off to the side so I'm like let him have his moment let him like the comment it's okay

And that's why I say you could tell, like, who's clouded and who's not just by the demeanor and the way they feel like they have this, like, superior, like, high ground to, like, just, like, talk down to other people. And it's like, yo, like, it's giving a hunger game. To end it, I think many of these cast members are on a path of, like, the reality TV star tragedy, which is to be too famous to get a real job, but not famous enough to actually make real money. And there are so many people out there with millions of followers who aren't able to actually monetize it. in a meaningful, sustainable way. Like, think about this cast, how large this cast is, how many followers are going around.

And, like, it was a month ago and it feels like forever ago. And final question, I feel like the timing of the reunion's off because, like, either had the reunion right away, if you're going to talk about everything that happened on the show, which is it seemed like what the reunion was about,

which is like, you know, breaking down the show. Like, we waited a whole month for that. You know, there wasn't a lot of, like, what's happened in between and, I don't know. It did take place a little bit. Yeah. What is the time frame? Is it two months post show?

that we're at right now? Or was it one month? It's one month. But it honestly feels like a fucking year. It feels like forever ago. That's crazy. I know you want to move off this, Nick, but I kind of have a question about like the core four stuff and how like Melanie was getting into it with Kenzie.

My question is when and like how did they get established as the core four if Kenzie was an OG? And I feel like if Kenzie's not a core four member, doesn't, shouldn't that like signal to her that like, yo, Melanie isn't your best friend. Why would you think that like clearly you're not part of this little clip? Core 4 comes from the internet. It's the internet giving them the name. The question is, is when they come out of the villa, how much do they embrace these titles and these groups?

Well, yeah, right? So, you know, it really kind of gives icky. Yeah, it's like, why are y'all... It felt like we're intentionally alienating, or not intentionally, but we want it to be clear. Like, yeah, we are the core 4. You over there. Like, we're not the fat 5.

We could be, but... The tricky part is that, like, I think the challenge is, is because, you know, when you see, for example, Kada lose $100,000, followers. You know, I empathize. Like, you see reality TV people literally be afraid to just be normal and chill or be friends with someone in their space because of what their audience says

about them. It wouldn't shock me if the core four doesn't feel like it's safe to be friends with some of their cast members. Because of the public. Because of what the internet is telling. Damn, that is like a trapped place to be in. Like, that's gorgeous. It's, yeah. I can't be friends with you because the internet says I can't. And it causes them to make a million mistakes and bad decisions. Wow. This really is a social experiment. It is a social experiment. All right. Well, up next, it's time to get to our guest, Nick and Tori from Married at First site. It's a great conversation. You get a lot of answers of all your burning questions.

When it comes to Nick and Tori, who survived some very interesting relationships and they're up next to talk all about it. Don't forget, Vile Files Plus now offers ad-free episodes for all Vile Files episodes, including Ask Nick, Reality Recap, and Going Deeper Plus. If you love Ask Nick, you will absolutely love our Ask Nick updates where you get updates of your favorite calls, our deep dive on all your favorite reality recap TV shows, and our pop culture roundups where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode, plus deep dives on our going deeper guest and so much more.

All I have to do is go to Val Fow's Plus, and you will be lucky you did. Nick Tori, welcome to the show. What up? Thank you. So excited to have you guys. This was a rager of a season. How long, how long has it been since you guys ended production of the show? Like mid-October, I think is round running wrap.

Okay. So we're coming up on a year. Yeah. So the show all essentially finished filming like a year ago. So it's been some time to reflect whatever. But then the reunion only filmed like a month ago. So that's still kind of fresh. Okay.

It felt fresh. Yeah. Well, I mean, are you saying it kind of opens some wounds, so to speak? Well, it's wild because we obviously, we have to watch the whole season before the reunion so we know what to talk about. So we are like in a hotel room with iPads with the show, binge watching all of it in a day. And then the whole show is then fresh in your head. And then you go right into this reunion. So all of your feelings and everything are like right on the top of your head.

You haven't had time to talk to any friends or family about it. So you're just going to this reunion raw. That's honestly genius. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as far as production goes, that's a good way to do it. But yeah, I think it was just for me, I was thinking and hoping maybe that like because

it had been a year, maybe Courtney would apologize during the reunion a little bit. And then when she kind of doubled down on the edit, I was kind of like, oh, ew. It sounds like you weren't expecting apology from Courtney. and I guess what was the apology you were hoping to get from her going into the reunion? You know, I thought that maybe even the experts might encourage it too. That didn't really happen either. But like I was fully thinking she was going to be like, hey, watching it back, I realized a lot of what I was doing was actually like really coming off rude and disrespectful.

And like I've learned from that. And now I've learned X, Y, Z that I can do differently. And I do see that you were trying. And like, whatever, just like a normal apology. but instead she was just like I'm an alpha and you're off or whatever

and it's just like no accountability for kind of like my experience that I had so that was a little disappointed was it trippy being in a relationship with her in the sense that it did seem like as a viewer

that like that yeah we all talk about projecting but it was just like anytime she'd have a problem and she kind of like you see her do this like where obviously you're just being blamed for something did it feel almost like whoa

where's this coming like yeah did she touch on anything or did maybe she after reflecting did you think okay well maybe that's fair or at times where is it like just accusations out of left field so I think like the accusation of me not like

fully opening up with her is valid like but it wasn't for lack of trying so like yes the fact that like she didn't really get to know much about me is true, but it wasn't for me not trying to do so. And like it took me a while

because like when you're in it also it's kind of hard to realize some things that are happening. So it took me a while to kind of realize how much projection was happening and like kind of like gaslighting even was happening throughout the show. And then watching it back,

obviously you have context of like the interviews that are happening and like what chat she's having with the other girls. And so it's like she'd be like talking to other girls like, if I have to spend one more second with Nick, I'm going to like leave or whatever. And then it's like, then to my face, she's like, Nick, of course I want to spend time with you. Or like, we'll be on the therapy couch at Dr. Lee.

She's like, Nick, obviously I like you and I want to spend time with you. And then she's like, nope. Like, I want to like not be here. I'm like, all right. Amazing Courtney impression. So yeah, that was confusing. But yeah, it was a lot of contradictions, I think, between what she would. say and what he would do.

And I think the earliest example of projection was like literally right after we got married. I don't know if you all remember, but she's doing an interview with a producer and the producer, she says something about like, I just don't want Nick to get bored of me. And then the producer's like, Courtney, it's been three hours. You're worried about him being bored already? And she's like, yeah, like they air that. And then the next day, it's an interview of her saying, Nick is so boring. So it went from her fear of her being boring to projecting that onto me and like, Nick

is a boring person. I think that was like kind of the very first like example of that happening. I would have been great if that producer would have been like, Courtney, don't worry, you're an alpha. How can you be born? Tori, you also had a very, well, you know, incredible run. First of all, you were really a joy to watch. And, um, and thank you for your sacrifice. Because obviously it seemed like some of our entertainment was your pain. Um, but what was just your general takeaway with Felipe because like on one end as a viewer you know he seemed like a nice enough guy I think he had a very charming opening you know he has that kind of like I used to be a nerd but now I'm cool and kind of sexy like you root for that guy and then throughout the season just drop some like what the

fuck did you say kind of moments and yeah what was it like for you in real time knowing that like hey I agree to marry this stranger you know from what you were your first reaction of like meeting Felipe to like how that evolved throughout the season. I'm really curious. Yeah. Well, I wish I would have seen the opening that you guys saw. That would have been helpful. No, but I think going into the wedding, when I first saw Felipe, I didn't really watch the show previous to this because I didn't want it to dictate how I showed up. So I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I was going to get pranked. I saw like there was fake teeth on an episode from a million years ago, so I just didn't know what was going to happen. And so I always

kind of think I'm going to be swindled. And so I was like, this is for sure a swindled situation. And so I was thrilled when I saw him and there was no like fake teeth. There was no prank, whatever. And so I was just like, I was really thrilled about that. And then I think as like the season went on, it definitely took a turn, I would say, say the least. But I really enjoyed his family. And I was just, I think I was so in my mindset was basically like I'm going to get pranked. And then also tuxedo blindness is very real. I love that.

That's so funny. It's for sure real. But yeah, so I think, and I really loved his family. Like we really started getting along like right off the bat. So again, though, I wish I would have seen the opening that you guys saw that everyone saw. because I think when it went out, it was the first time I saw that, and it made more sense.

And what do you mean by that? Because I think when a lot of this stuff, it did happen earlier on, but like when he started pulling these like blindsiding things, which were like mind you, like when we were even filming at the apartment or seats or whatever, like it was never any of that. It was like he admitted that he cheated.

And then it was like all of a sudden at these like usually group dinners, group things, he would just like drop these bombs left. and right. And so then he'd say like afterward, he kind of do what he did with the cheating thing where he said to the guys like, oh, I cheated, but I forgot. Ha ha. But then to me, he was like, I was so ashamed. And like, so it was just like you're getting a different story and like, you know, I didn't pick him. He didn't pick me. I don't know him that well. So like, you know, I want to hear him out. But then as time on, went on as you see, it just kind of really went downhill.

You know, it's interesting, you know, when you think about this show in its premise. And I think if we're all being honest, like, I mean, listen, hearing you that description is fascinating because the truth is it probably wasn't even a different story. It was like him performing differently for his audience, right? He's with the boys. He downplays it, you know, for whatever reason. With you, he wants to sound empathetic, sincere. And in this situation where you're literally meeting a stranger, and I imagine all of you, you hope at least the other person. And I think, you know, many often we're not holding ourselves accountable, or at least some of them.

But to be so easily a different person in different situations must be kind of an uncomfortable feeling to watch it back knowing that you were like hoping that whoever you met. I mean, like, you know, say what you want about Courtney. She has a hard time not being herself. And I like, you know, it's like, okay, at least you can trust that. But with Felipe, this kind of a chameleon kind of vibe is, but yet I'm sure it's so common. in a way that I don't think we realize in dating. Yeah. And I think that's a really good point too.

Because like regarding Courtney, I will say, and I, I mean, Nick and I have talked about this and I've talked with Courtney on this too. But, you know, my experience with her was very different than what Nick's experience, what we saw. And so when we're watching that back, I was like, it was completely so different. And so then when you put that to like Felipe, I agree, though, I think it wasn't like, he wasn't like completely switching up but it was definitely the story was told very differently you know when he was talking these things and it was usually from like kind of a victim place

and so i wanted to kind of hear him out you know it's stressful to go through this in general so like it's like okay like you know hurt your shit out but okay and but i think it was a very much a your audience type of thing at least with Felipe yeah well is there anything that he admitted to or anything off putting or shocking, he said that didn't make the final edit that you, that stuck with yeah. Where do I start? Um, yeah, please. Uh, a favorite once he really wanted to go on. This was like towards the end. And at that point, I was just like, Jesus take the wheel. Like, oh my God. He was like, we were out on the patio sitting out there. And then he was like, you know, I, and I'm not really, I watched some rally shows, but not a lot. And so I didn't know even what the show.

his premise was, but he was like, I'd love to go on Too Hot to handle. And I was letting... No. And then he should have signed up for that. And I just was like, wow, okay, okay. And so that was like peak timing where I just was like, literally like,

I didn't know what was up and what was down. And I'm just trying to like, Jesus take the way. I'm just trying to get through this right now. I'm sorry for that happening here. That is an awesome story. Too hot day. Yeah. Insane. married at first sight to Two Out to Handle.

Like Two Out to Handle gives you a different name during the castle process because it's like a surprise that you're on Two Out to Handle. So maybe Felipe thought Married at First Site season 20 was actually two out of handle. He's going to show up. That's hilarious. Imagine.

I thought he found a little workaround. Tori, are you always this like cool, calm and collected while dealing with just an absurd man? Like watching the show back, I was so impressed with how, honestly chill you were but it wasn't like oh i'm the cool girl that's cool with everything you were like i'm composed i'm chilling and i'm very confident and he's making a fool of himself like it's almost like

you didn't have to call out or or like poke at him you can it seemed like you knew like oh this is gonna air and he's gonna look like a train wreck yes exactly like are you always that composed or was this you just like trying to i don't know show up for this for the show and be like okay i'm gonna let him big his own grave. Yeah. Well, I think I have some practice with fuck boys in general, but I also think that, like, I grew up kind of in a tumultuous environment. And so, like, with like verbally and things like that, and you kind of learn to like not give things control. And then when you bring in like, you know, these like kind of just like silly boys, like, it's just like the days would love nothing more than you to just like boost their ego by you getting upset. And so I think that combination

I didn't realize honestly, I didn't even think that that was a thing until like it aired and like that like, you know, people are saying that now or like that's a thing. But like I didn't not think of that at all. And like, yeah. So I think it was the combination of that. Two moments that specifically come into my head going off of that, Susie, is the car ride where your car breaks down and he is just sitting there like finger up his butt cannot help you with literally anything. And it seemed like you were like, you know what? I can handle this. Like I can, I know how to call A, B, and C, I'll be fine.

This will be okay. But the fact that he didn't even offer like any sort of help, any direction, nothing. No. Moral support. Yeah. Yeah, Nick, Matt on the back. Nick, Nick, Nick and Jimmy, I mean, I don't, how old are you, Nick? I'm turning 33 in like a week.

Okay, well, happy birthday. You look great. But yeah, so you're younger than me. Jimmy, you're even younger. you know there's a lot of conversations online about like just masculinity what it means what what you know the young modern look like modern man looks like today like maybe i'm just the old guy but like yeah like i think that's insane that like a man wouldn't want to be like all right i i need these like pretend i know what i'm doing here or help problem solve but they'd be the guy

who's just like sits in his car on his phone or is that like is that the new young man of today No, no, you're still supposed to help out. Okay. Because me, like, I'm not going to change the tire. We call on AAA, but I'm going to help you call AAA. Do you not know how to change a tire? Fuck, no. That was one of my fears on perfect match.

One of the challenges to, like, change a tire. My tire went flat. I couldn't find, because the tire has a lock one. I couldn't find it, so I did have to call AAA. But you should know how to do it. You should know that. Nick, you went to MIT, Nick. You must know.

Well, dude, I do software at MIT. so let's relax on that. Hardware is a totally different thing, but you can't get it right. You're still a genius. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not denying that. But like my, I like helped my dad like, fix it like swap out of tire when I was like 13 or something and I haven't done. So you don't know how to change a tire? Yeah, there's no way I could. We're in a same boat. Do you do you do you know like the, you don't even know the basic steps? I had never seen him change a tire before. So

As much as he's talking this shit, I've never seen it. It's a game call. Again, I did call AAA last time. I'm no, I'm no, I'm no, I'm no, I'm no, I'm not, I'm not a mechanic. I'm, like, but you should know the stat. Like, there's a, there's a filter. There's a, there's a filter. I'm a problem solver.

I'll get it figured out. Like, whether it's me, like, using the car jack, not, like, TBD. Yeah. Moral of the story, you're still supposed to be a good guy and, like, help fix the situation, whatever the situation. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, it is more than what Felipe was going to do. Right.

Oh, I mean. He was over there. I wouldn't have been shocked if he asked me if I could make him a snack at that point. I was just like. It just goes on Tinder. Oh, my gosh. Just got to swipe it on Tinder. Literally.

Can I have some shock milk? The other moment was when it was the same episode, I believe, that night when he was performing being called like the fuck boy and whatever and he loved it so much and you went up to the room at the retreat. And y'all kind of broke up. And this, like the temper tantrum that this man threw, it. the way that I would have been like, get up, and you just sat there so calm and collected.

And it was honestly like Susie said, I mean, it's just, it's brilliant to watch. I love watching it. It was. It was. There's nothing more powerful, anything more powerful than calmness and stillness and situation.

Yeah, I feel like, I really do feel like, especially when we were at that portion, I think maybe like a week or two before, that was when I was just like, I cannot even like, you kind of can't even really like share your emotions or share anything because you're just like, I don't know what he's going to say or do. But with that, I was just trying to convey like, you know, I didn't care about the game and I was honestly like having fine. It was fine with the game. But then he was like enjoying it so much. And then you're trying to explain something. And it's like, this is not even worth my time. And I just was over it. But yeah. Yeah. And then I lost my car and it's like Penelope Cruz. Like I'm so sad about that. And it was like my. like old car but it was like a stick shift and I was so really sad about Pinell. I'm really sad to know. Do you remember the moment where you're like, I can't marry this man? Yeah. I mean, I think honestly it kind of went back to like some stuff just got really weird. Like I did feel like

I was getting love bombed and like the last two guys, they dated love bombed. And so I just was like, I told him that and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Got it. And he like, proceeds to love bomb and I'm like, I love you. Happy talk, good talk. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Shut up. Shut up. I love you. Brazil, me and my family are going to Brazil.

I'm like, okay, great. So I think, though, when we were intimate, afterward, we were chatting and he said something, and that's the reason why I went on the couch, was that he was really excited to tell the guys. Oh, God. I was really, really icked out, like just so itched out. And I was like, what the hell am I doing?

What am I doing with this experiment? Like, I was like questioning everything. So I, like, waited until I passed out. And I just, like, basically, like, crawled out there as fast as I could. I was wondering why you went on the couch that. Yeah, that would make me leave as well. That's why you went on the couch. Did you ask him or did you bring that up to him?

Were you like, wait, what do you mean? Like, did you call it out? Yeah, well, I talked to him in the moment. And I was like, well, listen, like, you're going to tell Devin or Nick or something. someone and then there's someone's going to do an interview and then it's going to kind of like creep by and throughout like that and I don't want to do that so that's why at the first dinner I just said it because I was like I'm just going to say it because like you're going to go yeah and it's going to be like Lord knows how that's going to go I've never done a show before or like this

extra everything like I don't know how that's going to go so but that was kind of I think me going to the couch though I do feel like that struck a chord with him ego wise because that's when a lot of this stuff started occurring. And I think that he thought it was for different reasons. I think that, like, I don't know how he didn't put two and two together. Like, that was, like, the weirdest thing I've ever. Like, he was like giddy. It was just weird.

And so I think that, like, that's kind of what was like a domino effect after that. Nick, did he ever talk to you or any of the guys about that moment? No. He actually never, um, interesting. Any sort of like, hell or any thing on that. Tori, I'm curious. Did you, like, why? Did you share that information about what he said during filming?

And they just didn't air it? No. Why? What was your decision to kind of keep that to yourself? I think it was just early on. Like, we just, it was like probably like two weeks after we got back from Cancun, maybe. And I just, like, didn't really trust again. Like, I think I'm always going to get swindled.

Like, and I was getting swindled, I felt like. So I was just like, I don't, you don't know who to trust. like who to talk to and I just was like I'm not like you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah you just you were you were still questioning the experiment even though you were kind of in the experiment yeah and while also like you know I really actually did like Felipe like I really did and so like I actually like gave and I'm as a partner I am really understanding to a point and then it kind of snaps but like I really did give him a lot of grace and a lot of room to like you know, just to get to know him and like figure out what's going on in its head, which

looking back now, I'm like, oh, that's stupid. No, I mean, like, it's, you seem like you have a sense of humor, but it's like hearing your point of view is fascinating because like the person who is, you know, questioning this experiment while going on the experiment. And then you get partnered with someone like Felipe who's literally like, so my next show is going to be too hot to handle. That doesn't help your narrative of like, is this fucking real? Like, or. Or is like, is he? It was like Twilight.

Nick, question for you. Why lie about the dating show on your wedding day? Yeah, people are accusing me of lying. I didn't lie. So I had so many. So we were allowed to bring, I think, like 25 friends and family to the wedding. So I had friends from all stages of my life. Childhood friends, high school friends, college friends, Microsoft friends, reality TV friends,

like all these groups. And my reality friends were all from the same. So then like right after we, you know, Sarah I do, we're like talking about wedding guests and everything. And I'm like, and I've got these people from Circle. It's like, I did this thing called Circle. It's not a dating show. I said that, which, look, is not a lie.

The Circle's not a dating show. But perfect matches. Yeah, yeah. So I said, I did The Circle. It's not a dating show. And then obviously later, not on our wedding day. I tell her about all the other shows that I went on. But I was like, maybe on my literal wedding day,

it's not the time to like dump all of that onto her. Obviously I addressed this because I have guests from the circle on there. But yeah, then like, I will say when I was like, it's not a dating show. Like that did. I was like, oh, should I maybe deeper into that? Like, because I know that might seem. But like obviously, yes, I eventually do tell her that I was on a date show, but not on our wedding day. but I do remember

distinctly thinking like maybe that's like not totally fair to what concept do you feel like that mattered to you or to her for saying that I'm curious like I knew coming into this there was gonna be a huge stigma against me from having done TV shows before

and like you know I'm in the casting process and they're like never before or do we have reality people on here so I'm like okay this is going to be an uphill battle but like I want to be married And so like this is going to be like this stigma I have to fight. And so in my head, I was like if on your literal wedding day she has her like husband saying like, yeah, I've done these dating shows and blah. Then it's like it does seem like it's just like another dating show that he's going on.

But in reality, I've only done one dating show is perfect match. The other ones were competition shows. But I was like I don't want to like trauma dump that like on day one. I get the logic, honestly. Like, I could totally easily see you saying it on your wedding day. Now the narrative is the other, it's the inverse. It's flipped. It's, you couldn't have waited a day to tell me?

Like, I kind of get the logic. No, literally. And people already, just me saying, talking about the circle, because I had five guests from the circle at my wedding. So, like, just me talking about the circle, I was getting, like, tons of hate from people being like, really he won't shut up about reality TV. Imagine if I told her every single show.

Like, it'd be a, like, you can't really win either way. So I had to make, like, a judgment call in the moment of, like, how much should I tell her right now versus later what's fair what how much about me is fair for her to know like right out the gate versus maybe in a day or two and like that kind of stuff so do you think you were in your own head though because of how many how much reality TV experience you have I wasn't honestly because everybody on married up for sight is on a reality show so for me I was like no one here is going to clock me for being like sure maybe the I think it's fair for the audience to have their doubts to be like Nick's done all these shows to see being serious I don't think it's fair for anyone on the cast of married at first sight to hold it against me at all because by signing up for married at first site by definition you're saying I'm willing to get married to someone who is also willing to go on reality TV you wouldn't be married to them unless they also signed up for married at first site so it's like stand on that you're already saying you're down for someone who's willing to get reality TV so for me I was like it will be such a non-issue and I was like I know it'll come up

because it's an easy thing to talk about but I was like I'll be able to instantly like set that right straight and I felt like I did with Courtney honestly in like the first day or two she was like okay yeah I actually believe you're here for the right reason like whatever and I thought that was like the end of it but it ended up getting brought up like a couple more times I'm sure like she had producers in her ear or something like continuing to bring it up or something but yeah I don't know I think it's like super hypocritical to go and marry at first sight and then be like actually if you've done reality TV I don't want to marry my follow question to that is not necessarily questioning your intentions but as someone who's

done multiple dating shows. I'm just curious about like your mindset. Obviously like you're very intellectual, I imagine like thoughtful guy. And so like as you know like this like it's interesting to have Tori Ann hearing her perspective because like you had you've never done reality TV. And these shows like you know, love is blind mirror. They're truly the social experiments. They are controlled environments that you know like something can happen. These crazy shows, these crazy premises, but part of it is like kind of giving yourself to the experiment, which in like, you know, you can get in the all nuance of like, you know, efficacy of producers and the way they guide you. But like, you know, if you really want to make this work, there's a little

bit of blind faith and just letting go. And I'm curious for you, Nick, someone who's done reality TV, the more reality TV you do, the more like behind the curtain you see, the more familiar you get with production, it's harder to immerse yourself in the experiment. So like, and this is only my experience. So maybe yours was different. different, but like every time I went on, you know, by the time I was the bachelor, like, I was definitely hoping to meet my person, but I was way more pragmatic and way more practical. And it was like, I'm the bachelor. I'm playing a role, you know, is a, and then when I went on Paradise, I was like, there's no way I'm telling anyone I love them. But sure, if you want me to come on your

silly show, I'll come on, you know, but like, because I was the guy who like gave in to the experiment twice, but by the time I was done with that, it was like, I can't, I can't even, I can't go there. So I'm curious, like, having done the other shows, knowing that you're about to, like, agree to marry someone you've never met, like, were you at least questioning your ability to tap in to the experiment that you were like, that you kind of needed to for this to work? Good question. Yeah. Honestly, I think this was the show that I was most all in on. Okay. Because I knew that it wouldn't work unless I was all in.

And so, like, even I get in the first few episodes I'm in or whatever, I'm getting roasted on the internet for being so deep. delusional because, you know, I'm poolside on my honeymoon, chill in, and I'm in my interviews like, things are going great. Like, I like Courtney, we're reviving. And then she's in her interviews saying, like, everything's terrible. And like, they're like, wow, Nick is so delusional. How can he not read the room? It's because I went in, so all in, like, wanting it to work and like so optimistic. I, like, told my whole family on the wedding day, I was like, guys, I don't care what you think about, whoever my wife is. Just tell me that you're happy and like you hope it works, because I don't need any red flag I don't want any negativity or anything so I actually went in like delusional

optimistic for it for as long as I could and then I think I gave the benefit of the doubt for a really long time whereas like some things were coming up even in the honeymoon but I was like maybe it'll be different once we go to Seattle and then like you're in Seattle it's been a week you're like well it's only been a week in Seattle maybe like when I get to know one more week it'll be different and so I kept like trying to kind of make excuses for maybe compatibility will be there at some point and then eventually like obviously we just had to call it off

but I was very much all in on it. When was the moment you were all out? Well I mean obviously when we said we were done the real all out. But like when you knew when you were like I can't there's no fucking way. There were red flags right out the gate like literally like day two or three or something. She had said how like her family

makes fun of people that hold hands in public like if they see a couple walking holding hands. They're like And I'm like, oh, you're a whole family? Yeah, everyone. So that was like kind of an initial difference, which is why I think we got assigned Dr. Lisa as our expert because she's like this sexology person. And so I think it was like our first rift was around physical affection. So we got assigned Dr. Lisa.

But the real, when I knew I was fully all out, we had done a trip to Austin that doesn't get aired. and the whole one of the big selling points of the trip was to get to know the real me because for some reason she had this like neat narrative that like I was reading a script and like just being performative for cameras so it was like Nick if you're in the city you live in Austin there's no camera crew with us I'll finally be able to get to know you and I was like sick let's do it I'll try anything and so we'd like come to Austin and the very first night was to spend a whole evening together get sushi go like shopping, like all this stuff. And she tries to cancel on me and says she has a friend's birthday party. Wait, what? You're in Austin for filming and she made other plans? Well, we have like production iPhones to film diary cams, but we didn't have a

production team with us. But yeah, it was literally two days to get to know each other. And day one, she's like, Nick, can we actually maybe not do sushi? And I actually also have a birthday party tonight. And I was like, um. In Austin. Yeah. Like actually, no, it'd be sick if we maybe like didn't cancel our sushi reservation.

And so we ended up getting sushi for one hour. And then I was like, want to go get a drink? She's like, nope, I'm, I feel nauseous or something and went home. So we saw each other one hour for day one. So she didn't even go to the birthday party. I don't know. She might have, she might have not. I don't know.

I feel like she went to the birthday party. She definitely went to the birthday party. But the sushi made her nauseous. Yeah. When did this take place in the timeline of y'all's story though? Yeah, yeah. So then we had the next day where we get like dinner with her friends and my friends. And the dinner's actually really fun.

And then we go out and I don't really see much of her. And then we end up like, I kind of tell her like, hey, I thought we would spend more time together and awesome. And it's kind of what you see in the show too, where it's like when I do express my feelings and stuff, it gets shut down. And so she ended up like crying and leaving. And so we didn't really see each other much that day either. So then that night, I call production and I'm like, I have to end it. Like, this is not going to work. So like at that moment, I absolutely knew I was fully done.

I was like, this is just not going to work. And so then it shows me in the room with Courtney saying, I don't see how this is going to work long term. And that's part of like a bigger discussion where we're like talking about the Austin trip and stuff. And then Courtney says, well, she kind of agrees that the trip was terrible. And we have like no compatibility. But she's like, they don't air her saying this.

But she's like, I just don't want to throw in the towel. I don't want to give up yet. So then I guess stupidly or something, I was just like, maybe there will be a change. And so right after that conversation, we go to the group session. And that's where the experts keep saying, like, what's the point of staying? What's the point of staying?

And then we're like, wait, why are we? We kind of end it. How honest with Courtney were you in the sense that, like, it sounds like you just fundamentally disagreed with her point of view. And if we're being real, like, you kind of thought she was the problem. And like, because you just said, okay, maybe you'll change, right? Like, you know, I don't want, she doesn't want to give up. And you're thinking, okay, well, the only way this works if you change.

How honest with you were you about? how much change she needed to make for you to be happy. It was actually a really difficult conversation to have because I would try telling her some things like I don't feel hurt. Like when I'm expressing my vulnerabilities and my thoughts, I feel like you're shutting them down. But then she would like shut me down saying that and stuff. So like that was hard. But then I also didn't want to discredit the fact that she did end up giving me like a hug a day. And like a hug a day.

a peck on the, like, mouth left, whatever. And so, like, I didn't want to discredit that. But it was also, like, a weird situation because, like, for me, the physical side of things was progressing enough. And, like, there was obvious, you can point. That's the thing about, like, physical affection. You can point to that and be like, I gave you a hug. So I'm doing work.

And, like, me, it was a lot harder to demonstrate that change of me being more vulnerable because it's like, how do you quantify that? That's hard. And it's like, I felt like when I was trying to, trying, it was like not being received. It would be like me telling Courtney, like, can you give me a hug a day? And then when she tries to hug me,

I like stiff armor and then I'm like, why aren't you hugging me? Like that's kind of the situation that I was in where it's like, I would try to be vulnerable. It gets shut down and then she'd be like, why are you not being vulnerable? So like that was hard. But so I was like trying to like give her props for

what I could obviously see on like the physical affection side, but then also somehow try to be like, I don't feel like I'm heard. I want to feel compliments and feel warm and flirty with you and whatever. But like a lot of those softer things I think are hard to, at least were hard for me to, A, like probably fully verbalize. And then also I've tried, but I'm sure I didn't do the best job.

And then B, it's like hard to track improvement on or like show that someone's putting an effort. Interesting. Tori, I'm curious when Felipe at the end at the finale was like, can we just be friends? Was that super annoying or the perfect kind of button to put on kind of the ridiculousness of like how his expectations of relationships? At that point, like I remember like when he was talking to me and he said that I was like whatever he's taking, I want some of that.

I think it just got to such a point of ridiculousness that you couldn't even justify like, oh well you know maybe like we grew up different or maybe like our families are different and I do know I will say this I think I don't know about aired at reunion but I did say this of like I have friends that are from Costa Rica and they also said and I have some friends from Brazil but they also said that like South America how they raise their sons and daughters like culturally like it's a little different than the US and so how he was raised I feel like aligns with that but this is just such a stretch of like can we be friends or and at this point after he said how he cheated on me constantly and I know the show the way they aired that was like it's going to be this huge thing or huge bomb

but um I think at that point I just was like so over it but you couldn't even really come to grips of like how he got to that thinking and it was like at this point when he revealed the like cheating on me constantly he's like crying as he's saying it And I mean, like, if he cried on command, it is impressive, like, I will say. But so I think at that point, it just was like, I didn't even know what was like real or what wasn't and what was just totally like such a. And when he told me the constantly cheating part, that's the point where I was like, okay, so like all of this pretty much was like a complete act for him. And so it just was like ridiculous. but I was like how, I don't know if it's phony or whatever, but it just, like, par for the course.

At the reunion, he said that he, you know, he was like, it's been a year. I've really changed. I've done the work. Do you believe that he's capable of changing and doing the work within a year time span? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I feel like the things that we were even talking about reunion, he was like, yeah, that was spliced. Like, and it wasn't. And it was like for me to, like, how much have you changed if after, like, if, like, Marissa and I are both like, That's not spice. So I don't know. It didn't sound like it very much.

You're totally honest. I also think people who say I've changed and done the work haven't because you would be more specific. Yeah. What did you change? And what was the work you thought you needed to do? Tori, I have a question. Do you know the taxicab theory?

And do you think that Felipe is somebody that will ever turn their light green? Like, do you think he'll ever be ready to settle down? Or do you think that he's just going to live this life forever? I don't know. because I do know like, I mean, there's kind of like, again, going back to cultural and not trying to like, you know, totally lean on them. But I do think that like there's kind of a stigma with Brazilian guys. But I also think that there's also a ton of, you know, just as many Brazilian guys who are married and happy. So, and monophras. But I feel like with Felipe, I don't really know because like I said, there's this too hot to handle comments. And then there's this like giddiness to talk to the guys after we were intimate. So I just like, there was just like, there was just. so much proof that he just so moved out in that space. Were you going to date? Felipe, like a couple of days before, does it, like, did you see Felipe's thread

three hours ago where he said, my ex-wife asked if I wanted to date after the show three days before Decision Day, storytime on TikTok whenever I get bored on vacation? Nick, thank you for your, um, sorry, investigating. Yo, Wojbombs, Sam's alert. Welcome to the Vile Phil, Nick. Tori, do you wish to comment on this egregious allegation? Yes. So when we were talking at the bedroom, basically when he was talking about these cheating comments and things like that and the too hot to handle and those types of things.

When he was saying that and also as he was saying that, I was believing him, which again, this is like this dumbest thing I think ever. but um so i really believed that it was kind of an act for him to get clout and so then when we were talking on the bed about this and earlier when he first dropped his cheating comments he basically told me that he was so stressed out because he really wanted to say yes but it would have been like we're married and i was like we don't have to like there's other options in this like we don't have to get married because he was acting really stressed out about it so that's where he was kind of like playing it from that angle. And then that's how that conversation got up later is because we were discussing dating after.

So you were being pragmatic about just the situation you two were in. Yes. And now he's using that as a way to get cloud again. Sounds about right. And also like you can change your phone. A lot can change in three days on reality TV, including your point of view and whether you want to, you know, have someone in your life. So, you know, thanks for the T, Nick. Yeah, Nick, you're messy for that and I love it.

Did you know that he had posted that, Tori? I didn't, but I had, I really had a hunch because he said how to post on Instagram, like that he was going to do some live that the real truth was coming out. So I knew because there wasn't anything that was really. Well, maybe he's going to write a tell-all like, yeah. Oh, we can only hope. Give us the tell-all. But I did, I did have a feeling.

because that's kind of the only thing that he could kind of like stretch like that. And then the other thing on threads, he's kind of a hoot to, like, he just got on there, but it is funny. But he also said like a couple days ago, like I also said no for the record. I saw that.

So he's having a time. What do you mean? Like he was going to, but you beat him to it or something? Yeah. Like I think that he just wants for the record, I was going to say no also. So it's kind of like I said,

part for the course. Well, I mean, technically he did. He said he just wanted to be friends. And cheat and cheat on you, yeah. 100%. And also I think at reunion, what I do. Like we know, Felipe. Yeah, we get it, but at Corpola's retreat, I didn't see this because I was crying,

but when he hopped off the bed, did you guys see that? He hopped off the bed and it was like he was going to Chuck E. Tori. I literally was like, when you said you can go back to your single life and he was like, all right. Like, I've never seen him move with such, yeah, pepest. in a step. It was crazy. I didn't see

it into watching it back and I was like Oh, okay. And then he goes downstairs and he's like shoulders hung low And he needs the guys to help him up. That looked like an actual like acting Performers the way he like tried to like melt on his boy. Nick are you offended that you got all the heat for your

Your right reasons while Felipe is out there. I think Felipe is getting his a fair amount of heat. I wouldn't want to switch spots. Tori, do you feel cheated from this experience? Because, like, you know, hearing your point of view,

it does make me sad because I think it's a very human thing to question these experiments the first time you're going in. And you got paired with someone who, quite frankly, like made it more confusing. And because it sounds like, honestly, Felipe didn't take it all that serious.

And maybe it's because he doesn't think himself, maybe he doesn't take his dating life that serious, but like for a guy who's, you know, all jokes aside, talking about going on too hot to handle and his partner on the other side is like, hey, I'm going to show up to this thing.

I'm going to agree to do this crazy thing, get married. I'm going to put my trust in a lot of people, including the person across from me who's also agreeing to do the scary thing. And yet it seems like he didn't take it all that serious. Yeah. I don't,

I feel like he didn't also. But I think, I think I don't regret it and I don't like you you get through it and stuff but I also think like what I learned in the process and also like when he did all this stuff like when he told me like I thought about cheating on you constantly I like no one knows this but I completely like again I did not at all give him anything but I was like the way he said it and how he like delivered all this like he was this victim trapped in this body that wants to sleep with everything in sight So, too much tortured.

And so I just felt like, chill. And I just was like, babe, it's just a show. It's just a show. And then I just like totally like, because I just couldn't give him a single anything at that point. Because it just was like a train wreck being drug up and down the street. Like through this. And so he didn't know that I did the diary camera at the end. And so it was, it was awfully.

I don't know what to say. Like, it just was like, in the end, like, I feel like I got out alive. Yeah. I hate that you feel that way, though. It sucks. Felipe is the, like, personification of my mind's telling me no. But my body. My body.

He really is. Nick, should we talk about you trying to come from my husband? I was informed of that this morning. Let's talk about it About the number of reality shows he's been on Or a different? Oh, was there a different one? That was there a different one?

Well, I just don't know how much research you all did. Literally. Literally none. That's so funny. Are you going to spin the block for somebody else's partner that relationship didn't work out? I'm curious about this too. Kind of rhymes with Jalissa? No, no, no.

I'm actually seeing someone. We're actually going glamping for a few days right after this. I was hoping that he was going glamping with. How long have you been dating this person? Like almost two months? I think like around the time of the reunion, we had only been seeing each other for like a week or two. You didn't want to bring her for the reunion, like Adam? Yeah.

But now, yeah, it's been a while. I would not recommend starting to date someone as your marriage is being broadcast on TV. It's not the best timing, but it's been like nice to be able to talk to. Too early to say she's the one? We'll find out. See, I'm not like being married at first sight or something, but like you're all. Tune in. Stay tuned.

Next time on Let's Pick Nick. Are you done with reality TV competition shows? If this doesn't work out, would you explore Love is Blind? Oh, I'm absolutely done with reality dating shows. Would never do another one. But competition shows, I would for sure be, like, traitors. But not let's marry Nick. Age of attraction?

Age of attraction. No, I'm done with date. I'm almost 33. I'm not doing any more dating shows. I heard from a bird, or maybe you said this already online, but it's, you didn't think what Nick said to Courtney at the reunion was that bad. What Adam said to Courtney, excuse me, what Adam said to Courtney about the pickball, where like he made her cry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, okay. So all Adam said, I mean, he said it in a mean, in a mean bad guy tone, but all he said was like, I would not have been able to last a week with Courtney, and she also sucks at pickleball. Like, that's not that deep. He kind of doubled down, though. Do we agree that Adams' reaction was more insane than Courtney's response to Adams?

Because I just couldn't believe he went full on high school gym bro who's like, I can whip your ass and pick a ball. And what felt mean about it as a viewer is that it was giving the internet's matching him and her and he's offended by it. And he had such a weird reaction that it was like, and that if you received it that way, if you're Courtney, is pretty fucking nice. mean. Yeah. So I think that what in reality happened was he was kind of getting like dog piled on a bit at the reunion. Okay. Like everyone bringing up receipts to different things. And so I'm sure he felt like defensive about it. And like then that question gets asked. And he just had all these like emotions building up and kind of light it out on her. And that's why there was so much like heat and emotion behind it. But I don't think it was like, I mean, I'm just guessing. But like I don't think it was all actually like because of Courtney or like directed at Courtney. But it was like he was taking a lot of. she at the reunion and she was just like the next question that got asked about him and it's just like got to that feels like it makes it worse it feels like you don't have the emotional maturity maybe be like let me not take this out on her right now I'm curious though I know obviously

everything's said and done now and Adam has said that he you couldn't last a week with her but if they were originally paired this is like for both of you guys do you think that it could have worked like if they both stepped into the arranged marriage and we're like okay let's see if we can make this work, to me on paper, they actually seem like they would make sense, but they're just very intense. What do y'all think? Yeah, I don't think it would just because I feel like Adam, I don't know, I feel like, yeah, I don't think that work. I think they're both maybe Adam like alphas or like wanting to leave the charge. Like, I don't know if you saw, but like, you know, Adam won stings a certain way all throughout the season. And I think that like Courtney also would

want to do her own thing. And I think that would probably. be a problem. I also agree with Nick. I think it was misplaced energy because it was coming off of right after the hinge comments and all of that stuff. And I don't think he realized that Marissa's been like literally like, I mean, every other girl she talks to in Seattle has receipts of Adams. So like, it's just been like, Rico cases. So I think that it was like, I think he was really shaking because he wasn't anticipating it happening. But all of it was true and all that did happen. But I think he was totally putting it towards Courtney over those things. And I don't think what he said was really egregious,

but I also think that it was like he got worked up. And he's gotten worked up at group dinners before over like some comments. And so I knew that that was probably going to happen. So that's why I also said something because it just was like, it had nothing to do with Courtney why he was worked up. It does make, I mean, him and his new girlfriend, if they're still together, they do seem like a match made in heaven because she was like, and that's why I can beat him in pickleball as,

soon as his arms healed, I'm beating him and pick a wall. And it's like, okay, you too. Was he obsessed with jet skis? Is the show let on? Is jet ski culture, bro? Like, if you have a jet ski, you like to take girls on a jet ski. I do have a jet ski. And it's nice for like a spin now and then. I am currently up at the lake. And I've used it once. It's nice. You know, took my daughter on. You rip in the jet ski? Took it for a spin, you know. But he seemed deeply obsessed. You and Adam should race. he was obsessed with Jetsky's and Pickleball.

But then like obviously when you're watching the show and they're like taking conversation, like it seems more obsessed than it was, but he for sure has deep passion for Jetsky. We actually, I haven't said this, but like, so like I said, with like every other girl in Seattle has some type of story. But I didn't realize this,

but when we were starting to film and the Jetskies got brought up, I was like, oh, I matched. on Raya like maybe like seven, eight months ago or something. I was like, there was a jet ski guy. And it was at him. Did he have swim socks in the photos?

No swim socks were present. No swim socks. That was a new found thing. How did Adam get on Raya? That's a great question. They had me on the damn waiting list for a minute. They do that to reality, guys. No, this was before all right.

You won't let me on. I have 29 referrals and they won't let me on. What was the pickup line? What did he say to you? It was something and like we know from the RICO case, we know that it's like his line that he uses. But it was something like, hey, I have a jet ski. Do you want to like...

Fucking do it. ...round on the jet ski. And then I think I said like, can I like, where you are floating or whatever and you like bump them off and you just like whip them around? So I was like, yeah, can I just like whip you off? And then I don't remember. what he said, but I didn't reply to that one.

So you've messaged on Raya and Hinge. Yeah. He is finding you everywhere. He messaged you. Jet ski dudes, man. You got to watch out for him. If they single Nick, not, you know what I'm saying? Jet skis are fun.

I like Jet ski. Yeah, they're fun, but like if you own a jet ski, I'm telling, man, I know no boys with jet skis. All red flags, I'm telling you. I think that he's, it's true. His passion is true. That's fascinating. Wild.

Tori, are you dating anyone? No. Well, I'm going on dating, but not dating it. I think there's a really great man out there for you. I think you're the full package. Thank you. Hey, Nick, were those tears real at the start of the show? Not at the end.

Oh, right at the start. Those were very real with my dad and everything, getting all, like, emotional for my wedding day. The tears at the end were real, but I think they were mainly of relief, to be honest. Like, that it was over. I can't understand that. Nick and Tori really appreciate you guys taking the time. This was a fun conversation. It's a fascinating show.

And thanks for the insight on what you guys went through. It was a trip to watch. I'm sure it was even trip year to experience. And Nick, have fun on your date. Thank you. Clamping trip. Tori, best of luck. You don't need it to hear from us,

but it seems like you have a lot going for you. And I'm sure nothing but great things ahead, especially for your love life. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Take care, guys. Appreciate you. Bye, all.

Thanks for having us. Bye. Bye, guys. Later, squad. Good to see you. All right. Well, that will wrap up today's episode. Thank you for listening.

We'll see you back on Tuesday. We have the queen herself, Heather DeBrow. We'll have also some more cast members from Married at First Side to really wrap up that season. And so much more. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out the episode with Corbin. That Going Deeper dropped yesterday. Always great to have you, Jimmy and Susie.

I love you. I hope that goes without saying. We will see you next time. Bye.