The Viall Files - E1191 - Dating While Pregnant | Ask Nick

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Ask Nick edition! Our first caller wonders if she's ignoring red flags. Our second caller wants to shoot her shot with a stranger but is still legally married. Our third caller is unexpectedly pregnant by someone she's not in a relationship with and seeks advice on how to date while pregnant. Subscribe for more dating advice, relationship drama, and unfiltered Ask Nick calls every week. "A good relationship is a bonus." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  ARE YOU A MESS BECAUSE OF YOUR SITUATIONSHIP? OR JUST IN GENERAL? Email [e-mail] with all your relationship questions and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content featuring updates from your favorite callers? Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + HERE: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Ladder: Head to https://ladder.fit/viall to get a free 7-day trial with NO credit card, and $10 off your first month if you join. CashApp: Download Cash App today. The RealReal: Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to https://therealreal.com/files. Article: Visit https://article.com/viall for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. **To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  Timestamps: 00:00 - Caller One 1:06:51 - Caller Two 1:26:45 - Caller Three Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

We hooked up. And the crazy part is after he, like, left, he, like, sent me a message, oh, like, you know, was so nice, blah, blah, blah, blah. Next sentence, I kid you not, I have the messages. Take care of our baby. Good. What are you names? My name is Anna.

I'm 32. Okay. And my name is Christine. I am 42. Nice to meet you both. How can I help? We're really here. Our question is I'm actually on behalf of my friend.

is my friend ignoring red flags because a guy has a few good qualities. And so are you the one who kind of wrote in or suggested at least that? Yeah. I wrote in. She was telling me about it and I said we have to. Okay. Is this a one-off or is this like a theme-based question? I think it's a one-off, right?

The living at home with your parents is kind of a one-off. But I feel like I get probably pretty involved in giving my opinion on her dating life. Okay. I'm just talking about like her picker because I guess we're talking about. Oh yeah. Talk about my picker. Who she's. What about your pecker?

Do I have a bad picker? So is there a current situation going on right now that made you call in? Yeah. So she kind of just like met this guy on a dating website and they spoke for a couple of months. And he has like a lot of qualities I feel like that are probably hard to find these days, like emotionally intelligent and things like that. But then when she ended up texting him saying like, so there's just a lot of, got to be something like wrong with you. And he responded with, he lives with his parents.

Oh, okay. How old is he? Forty-four. Is there a why? So the why is he was divorced about a year, a year and a half ago. And so he's like, you know, paying a lot in child support, recently divorced, parents are older. So why not move in with them, take care of them and save some money? I feel like he mostly blamed it on the divorce. Yeah, it's worse. Which originally maybe makes sense. Is that how he see it? Is that how he exactly said?

I'm curious, it really comes down to how he said it. Christine, the way you framed it, it sounded like an excuse rather than a situation. She had to force it out of him. Well, that's true, too. That's okay. We were having a conversation and like, again, like there was things like, like, he called me babe within a week of talking. to him and I was like, let's not. And like, he didn't and he respected the boundaries.

And he's like, you're right. It's too much and stuff like that. So it's like, all right. Like, at least he listens and he understands. And he's like really good at communicating. Yeah, some of wanting to talk on the phone. These are so basic and bare minimum. I understand how absolutely ridiculous it sounds.

It shouldn't be difficult to find in someone. But, you know, here we are. Is it that difficult to find guys who have basic? Respect boundaries and can communicate? Yes. Okay. I mean, at least where I'm from, but it's not like we have a bunch of people. I mean, yeah, we're in Maine.

So, like, the population is nothing like the West Coast. No. No. You already have, like, a very selected pull to choose from just to, like, people who have teeth, let alone that's going to sound terrible. Yeah, but I feel like you do people and then you've dated everyone. Do you really like this? Are you excited about this person?

I was, yeah. Until the parent thing. Yeah, I was just talking. totally joking around with him. And I'm like, ha ha, like, what's the red flag? You seem like really great. And I'm like, what is it? Like, hung up on your ex. You have anger issues. Living home with your parents. Like, ha, what is it? And he was like, no, I'm over the ex. And I'm like super easy and relax. He's like,

but I do live at home with my parents. And this was a few weeks into talking. And at first, I was like, okay, that's, it's fine. Like, it's not the end of the world. But like, wanting to understand the situation is asking him why. He's like a lot of girls had an issue with it in the past. So I, I have a hard time bringing it up. And then he explained to me like, you know, he was recently divorced. He pays X amount in child support.

And she started making excuses for him, which. They were valid reasons to me. Yeah, but not to me. Okay. Not that you're less important, but, um, I'm her best friend. Listen, if somebody needs to say it, it needs to be her friend. And what, what has happened with this guy since? Like, where, where are we now?

So where are we at now? So we were talking for, I don't know, it was probably like, honestly, like a month or two. We hadn't even met yet because he was on vacation and, you know, we both have kids and things like that. So we were just communicating on the phone and texting. And then we had planned a day to meet up. And it was maybe like a week in advance. So it was like a Tuesday. We were planning to meet the next Monday. He lives kind of far, like an hour and a half from here. So we figured out a place halfway, a town that we were going to meet. So Anyway, we're talking and, I don't know, it was Friday. And I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, nothing on board. And I was like, okay, fine. And then the next day, I'm asking him again, he's like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm bored. And I was like, I don't know.

Like, I could sit on my couch and be home by myself and be completely content and not bored. Like, I'm good in my own space. And so I'm like, if you're bored, then you're boring. Like get up, go do something. Like figure it out. He's like, well, that's what you're for. And I was like, ew. Like, no, I'm not.

Okay. I mean, that's all kind of. of, I mean, cement. My big, okay, first of all, when you ask him about living with his parents, did you ask him how long he plans on maintaining this current situation? Yes, yes, because that's like the most important question. Yeah, I'll back up then, yes, because we did have this conversation. So when I was telling her that he lived with his parents, she was like, well, what's his plan?

And I was like, that's an excellent question. So I followed back up with him. and he said that he doesn't really have one. I said, so, like, I'm not going to beat a dead horse, like, but just kind of curious, like, what the plan is, because I'm not necessarily concerned that you live with your parents. I'm more concerned about what that looks like in the future. Because, like, what are you going to do you go to the future?

Is there an exit strategy? Exactly. Have you, yeah, have, do you like your new life, you know? Is it nice to have mom make dinner for you again and do your laundry? I mean, I don't know. Who's taking care who is a big question, right? Like, listen, in an adult life, I don't know what you ladies have experience in life, but sometimes shit happens and it's unexpected.

I mean, I was 28 with my then girlfriend and we got engaged and then, you know, we broke up and we were living together and I got to fuck out of here. And my grandma was living like down the street. She had like a condo in Milwaukee and she was in the city and I was like, fuck, you know, what am I doing? And I was like, I got to, I lived with grandma for, it was meant to be like real temporary. It ended up being like six plus months. There was a period of time where I got a little comfortable. It was also like, you know, one of the best times of my life that I'll always cherish because I got some real quality time with grandma and she's just a cool grandma and yada, yada, yada.

Yeah. But I was never like comfortable, right? And I needed to get out, you know, and one of those things. Well, and then don't date if you're in a position. Were you dating while you were living there? No, because I was still very much getting over a bad breakup. Yeah. So it kind of worked out.

That's not true. I mean, you know, I definitely started dating a little bit towards the end. And I think that's when I was like, I could get the fuck out of here. Gotta get out. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's like, is there an exit strategy? Because if he was like, yeah, listen, I live with my parents. Let me explain before you jump to conclusions.

My parents are a little older. You know, they're getting older. Honestly, they're not as good at taking care of themselves. as they used to be. And, you know, I'm, I'm kind of helping out. And they really need my help. And honestly, you know, child support, you know, it's not easy. If he led with the child support, that's a red flag.

If he led with his parents that he'd taken care of, that's a little bit better. I think he led with the child support. Yeah, because that's not going away. And then he was like, and now that I'm here, I'm going to take care of them because now I think they need me. The way you tell the story, it doesn't sound like he, mom and dad really need him. around. No, I don't think they're like, it's like to make himself feel better about the situation. And if, if I'm you, the fact that the, the, I'm bored and that he's boring and he's,

you know, that's all whatever. But the fact that if I'm you, yes, like, wait, you're bored. What, go apartment hopping. Go to go. Yeah. Like, what, yes. Like, if you have free time, then you need to use that free time to get your life back on track. This is kind of what I was, leading up to, yes, because that's my, like, he's, if you're bored and you're just sitting there and you're complacent, like. I hate to say this, but I feel like emotionally intelligent when it comes to men nowadays is overhyped. The bars, well, we've talked about this a lot.

Maybe it's like communication. Maybe it's communication then. I don't know. Well, communicate. I mean, obviously communication is really important. But like, you know, like, you know, more and more people are getting therapy. I think that's great. But more and more, even more men are getting better at talk.

about their feelings and then that that just creates a bunch of men who are good at like centering their feelings and it's like okay great now you know how to make it about you what else do you like him about him other than he he's emotionally intelligent he did like you know he was on vacation with his kids for two weeks took him over to egypt which is where he like he was born and his parents are from and so he seemed like a really good dad and you know he had a good job You know, for money, which I don't necessarily, well, has. Okay. Money is like whatever, but it's more about like drive and stuff like that to me.

So he sounds, other other aspects that he's demonstrated suggests that he's lazy? No, I don't think like, I think it was really just him living at his parents' house that was, well, besides when it came to like the date part where I, when we were going to meet and the day of the date, I asked him what we were doing for the date. and he was like, I don't know, dinner question mark. And it's like, well, we've been talking for a month and a half, two months. You just said that you were bored and you didn't even look up one place that we could maybe meet at or have dinner, anything. I don't know. It just, it seemed like a lack of motivation, a lack of planning, a lack of foresight. Like, that is more of what my concern was.

How long have you been talking to them? I was probably at that point. I mean, I haven't talked to him in a little bit since then. And I don't know if I should, like, if I was maybe being too harsh or not. But it was at that point, like a month and a half or so, at least. And how was the last time he spoke with him? It was like a week or two ago. And he just stopped reaching out.

After I had said something about like not going on that date that night. And he was like, oh, I kind of saw that coming. And then that was that. And that's it. And he like never said anything again. Okay. And I didn't respond to it because I was like, if that's the response, I'm good. Where are you in your like, are you single, not men married? What are your relationship goals? Like, what are you? I have been divorced for about 10 years. Okay. Do you have kids? And I have two kids. They're 12 and 14. Okay. And I feel like I'm in like a really good place in my life. I have my own house. I have a good job. I feel like I've gotten all of my ducks in a row and I'm in a good place emotionally. So I'll still. I have my own house. I have a good job. I feel like I've gotten all of my ducks in a row and I'm in a good place emotionally. So I'll be a really. I have a really. I have a really. I have. I have a lot. I have. I have

I was like, we'll give it a go. Do you want more kids? Like I would like to find someone. No. Okay. Great. No, probably not. You're in a unique position that a lot of people aren't when they're dating and that

like you have a lot of like pivotal milestones in your life kind of like check, you know, one being a like especially as a woman in the whole biological clock like that that box is checked, right? Like you now you can truly date for yourself. Yes. And if I'm you, I would be so picky. about who you invest and waste your time with. Right?

I also, early in dating, like six weeks, plenty of time to have passed to like a conversation I would get used to having with men that you are excited about early on is to find out also what are their relationship goals? Because at this stage- He was already talking about like moving in together. That was like the other thing. That's not a relationship goal. That's playing house.

Yeah, that's moving out of his parents was to move in with, yeah, figure out with you what was going to happen. That's playing house. I mean more like relationship goals. Like it's, you know, if you're meeting another divorced man who also has kids, like you both have experienced some real life as individuals. You know, divorce is messy. It's hard.

It's difficult. Like you've been in love before you, you know. But you can be like a lot more like, what am I getting out of this relationship? And I think it's really important for any couple early on to figure out like, does this person want the same type of life I want? have similar goals? Like, do we vibe with each other? I think when people who are dating when they're younger or even as they get older and if they haven't checked some of those boxes off their list, they're a little bit more like, well, they want to find a person they can procreate with and

they, you know, is there going to be a good dad and things like that? I think sometimes you have to, you know, we feel like we have to be almost like selfless with who we end up because we're thinking big picture where you can be a little bit more selfish because it's like, you don't, you know, sort of. I don't have any more box. You're thinking retirement in who you're retiring. Yeah, you know. And if in the next three or four years, you don't find your person, you still have your girls, you still have your, you know, your friends, you still have your kids, you can be really,

you know, you can almost like kind of date like a guy, which is like, I don't know how much you want to participate in hookup culture and things like that, but you can really be, you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't really need a man in your life to like fulfill you. You want someone. Yeah, but it's their point where you get too picky? I mean, that's. Because you are alone so long and you are like, I'm perfect and.

Yeah, listen. I, I struggle with that. You're a bonus. A guy would be like just a bonus at that point. I do think a guy is a bonus. Like I have a, so are you going to be too picky, though? Well, that's, honestly, that's a huge, like, life question.

As we get older, we definitely get pickier. We have life experiences. We, you know, I've said this a million times, but when we're in our early 20s and we're falling in love. It's kind of like, yeah, I like you. I don't know. Let's date. Right? It's like you, you feel something. You're like, fuck it. Let's figure it out. When we get older, you know, you've been divorced. You have kids. You've been through, you've had some life. And people will say or do things. And sometimes we'll get the ick and be like, I don't know. I've seen where this goes. I'm out. Right. And I think I struggle.

Like, I definitely struggled with that in my 30s when I was single forever and got really used to being alone and got really used to having a very, quite frankly, selfish life. And it was harder to fall in love, you know, because it was more like I was a lot more cynical and I was a lot more pragmatic. And finding that middle ground is definitely a challenge. I think I teeter, feel like, between getting the ick way too easy and also letting something hide for longer than I should. I just like it's one guy had small hands one guy what was he doing when he kissed just fighting on my talking on your bottom lip too long those are definitely like icks you maybe can work around potentially yeah like suck on his bottom lip instead then he can't suck on your bottom lip i don't know what to tell you if i'm not turned on i'm not turning but yeah nor nor do you need

to be yeah no i think there's like i just think if you're gonna yeah and this current situation this is not sound like your guy. He also doesn't sound like he's, you know, if you're going to date a guy who's divorced with kids, I'd be really, especially I think as a guy, I'd be really curious what his relationship goals are. Like, what does he want in a relationship? I'd love to hear him say that.

You know, why does he, why does he date? What is he looking for? Because, I mean, I don't think it's too out of the question to find a guy with kids, divorce. He was like, you know what, I'm good, I got my kids. I don't really need anything that serious. I want some occasional sex here or there. I want to go on some nice dates.

The fact that he lives with his parents, to me, he sounds like a guy who's not that serious about being serious. That is what it comes across as. Now, when I, like, would talk to him and ask him what he would want in a relationship, it was definitely more like, I'm looking for my person. I'm looking for someone to spend my life with. I'm looking for someone to share things with. Did you ever ask him with any of those questions?

What does that mean to him? I mean, not that specific question. No, I don't think I've asked that specific question. Maybe I assume. It's a really important follow question to those types of statements that a lot of people will make. Because like, I don't know. What does that mean? I'm looking for my person.

Okay. Like, okay. What is that? You know? Yeah. It sounds so nice, but it's like, I don't know. Maybe his person is someone who travels a lot and he only sees once a week. And they have like a 10 year relationship that's pretty distant.

And, you know, but it works. for them because, you know, he's got his kids, he's got his life and he's got his parents to kind of take care of or take care of him. Right. And he's just looking for like basically fairly consistent but not too intense companionship with the occasional sex. Yeah, but where would they have sex in his room in his mom's house? Like that's all my point. You're not invited to my house. Yeah. So he'd always have to come to her house just because she is well off enough to own her own home. Well, yeah. I mean, again, I don't, this doesn't sound like your guy. It makes it like unattractive. Yeah.

But if he was like, he did have so many good qualities, but then this popped up and I was trying, I was, I was trying to. You keep saying so many good qualities, but all you have said is that he is emotionally intelligent and he took his kids on vacation once. I mean, maybe there's more, but that's the only like, like, the bars now. No, there is, there is more. I'm trying to like go back and actually think about this. Because it's, I think he did communicate well. He did. He reached out. you know, like saying hello, good morning on every day. And like it seemed like he like gave a shit and cared about you. And was like prioritizing you. Yeah. And he did ask like a lot of good questions, like in-depth questions.

Yeah. Like it wasn't. Yeah. It was he was actually trying to get to know me. And, you know, I think cared about building a relationship at, at least at some point. Did he felt like he had qualities of like taking care of you? Not that you need to be taken care of, but in the way that a partner just wants. Yeah.

To we take care of? Yeah. It felt like he did at some point. Yeah. So how did you demonstrate that? I thought that. Well, I mean,

you can only demonstrate it so much when you've only like talked on the phone and like texts right. We didn't really get the opportunity to like meet in person to see how his candor was. How many times did you meet up in person? We didn't.

Ever? When we were going to, he didn't know. He asked her on a date and then he said, I've never met him in person. No. Okay. That's what we're trying to figure out.

should she meet him in person and go on a date? So I like give it the go. Well, at this point, with this guy, I'm not so sure. In general, I don't, I guess my biggest note for you is stop investing so much time in a stranger. And the moment you start thinking, oh, I could date this guy. I mean, the guy's giving pet names. He hasn't even met you. He's talking about moving in with you.

He's not met you. You guys are total strangers. I don't care what you talked about online or on text. And I guess maybe over the phone. but like, what are we doing here? More than anything, I would, you know, if you are talking with someone and, you know, as a woman, I get, you want to feel comfortable. You want to build some rapport.

But I would have met him a long time ago. Circumstance allowed it, by the way. What were the circumstances that didn't allow it? It was, he was gone for two weeks. And then I was traveling. And then we had our kids, like our kids were separate weekends. So we had to figure that out. And then the one weekend that we were the day that we were going to be able to make it work is when he didn't plan anything.

And I was already in her ear saying he lives with his parents. And it's not necessarily about the temporary living with the parents. It's the no plan on like you don't have a five-year plan to get out of there. You don't have a two-year plan. You don't have a plan to leave. Yeah. No, I'm with you. But you sound like you want to meet them.

Sometimes I feel like I'm too hard on people. So like I don't want to write somebody off. She's already in that really picky phase. So it's like, is she being too picky? Right. And maybe should overlook like stuff like that because are they normal things? I don't think you're being too picky. I'm basing this off of where you're at in your life.

You're 42 years old. You have your kids. You don't want more kids. You have friends. Like a good relationship is a bonus. And not that it's not, it might be a priority, but it's a priority you definitely can be patient with. because like, you don't want, you know, if it happens, it happens, but you don't want to have a three-year

relationship and then break up. I'm guessing you don't want to get divorced again. Would you get married again? Yeah, you're not even sure if you want to get married again, right? I don't. It would have to be the absolute perfect person. Of course. Like someone in your shoes, how many people are like, yeah, no, I want to do that again. It's just like, you know, just, you want to let life play out. But that's the thing. You can, you can be picky. So take advantage of the situation you're in. No clock, there's no, I mean, there's literally no, for you, there's no biological clock and there's this no clock in general. I didn't have a biological clock when I was in my late 30s, but I was like, I want to be a dad

and like, I mean, shit, I got to, I got to, I got to try, like, I was, I got to try to date someone, you know, I got to actually try to be in a relationship. And for me, for a while, I was just so used to being single and I would have these three months flings or whatever and then find a reason to be like, yeah, you know, I don't know, like it's, nah. And that was when I would think I was getting too comfortable with being single and a little too picky. But I feel like with you, if it's not really feeling right, then it's probably not right.

I also think like, yeah. I mean, just on paper, he sounds like someone who I would make a big, and I'm better, I'm right, but I could be wrong. But like a guy who's living, a guy who's that comfortable at 40 living, living with, with his parents, likes to be taken care of. Also, where him and his family are from, it is more, they're definitely like a trad wife upbringing and things like that. Culturally, he's a little more conservative.

No, and I'm definitely in a place in my life where it would be nice to find somebody. Like, I want to. Like, it would be great to find my person. But I'm like, I am told by my family and some friend, like, you're too picky. You're too picky. And so I'm like, where maybe I am? too picky. I don't know. So then I try to ignore red flags and you're like, you're ignoring red flags. Like, I don't know. You next time you meet a guy who has a good job, likes his job. I think a guy

liking his job is really important. I mean, it's not, it's hard to find, but like you meet a guy who's like miserable with his job, hates his job, like wants to like change, you know. It's like I'm thinking about being a chef, you know, and he's an accountant. It's like, oh boy. Now that you can't chase your dreams, but like you are, do it. If you want to do it, do it. But I'm saying, you find a guy who's like, happy with his life. He's he's got his job. He's good to go. Um, you know, ambitious, whatever. And he looks like he, you know, wants someone to take care of. Not like in a tried wife's away, but like in a way that he's just, that one piece he's missing is like that partner. And if he has small hands or is a bad kisser, then maybe those are the people you give like another chance to.

but if the small hands are just like a funny anecdote that you joke with your friends but at the end the day you also just like don't really like them and they you don't feel like they can make your life better at this point you should only date someone who elevates your life you aren't looking for someone who like you're not looking for another kid or someone that you need to give like a pep talk to every once in a while uh and ask them like man it's wednesday afternoon and you're bored on your couch, you know, like, oh. Yeah. Like, you're not looking for that.

So, I don't know. Like, let your family and friends tell you're too picky. I don't know. I'll be picky for you. I'm good with being picky. Except for in this case. Do you feel like you're being too picky? Do I know?

I don't. That's what's most important. I don't. And I would rather have you be too picky than not picky enough at this stage in your life. You know, maybe, maybe you might. I don't even feel like the things I'm looking for, like, way too out of this. You also have the benefit of making a mistake. And what I mean by that is, like, you could date a guy.

Maybe you're going to be too picky. And you couldn't, you know, get the ick end it. And then you could like miss them and miss his companionship and see if he's willing to take you back. And you might say no. And you'd be like, oh, I really fucked that one up. But maybe that will be like a learning opportunity for you to realize what you're, you know, because right now it sounds. like you're not even sure what to prioritize. And when it comes to relationships or what you want or how

you want to be made to feel, you know, it sounds like you haven't really found that yet. No, I mean, I feel like I know what I want and I feel like I know what I'm looking for. Like, if you're asking me what I want, like I do know. Which is what? Again, like what I want. Yeah. How do I explain this? I want somebody who is capable of giving me the love I deserve in the sense that, well, based on past relationships, like, I want somebody who is proud to be with me. I want someone who is like not ashamed to go out in public with me and, you know, tell the world like, this is my girl. I want someone who makes promises and keeps them would be lovely, you know, keeps their word. They say they're going to do something and they do something.

I want someone who is driven. I want someone who understands my life and what it involves and my children and respects that. And they can have their own space. And I have my own space, but we can come together and enjoy each other's company. And that person allows me to be me. And I allow him to be him.

And we're not judging each other off of those things. And we just compliment each other. Okay. That sounds all reasonable. But yeah. I think the hard part is like dating to the point of, getting knowing that that person possesses all those qualities maybe you're being slightly too picky as a dater yeah but you know in terms of actually committing and jumping into a relationship where you're

like hey let's let's give this a shot and let's be in each other's lives and let's see where this goes i think that's where you should be and can be really picky but maybe you're not maybe you're not dating enough and you know like i know there were circumstances of this one guy but you spent a lot of time talking to a man and getting to know him while not really getting to know him. And like it kind of, you know, that was like six, six, you know, weeks of waste of time or I don't know what happened with the short hands guy or the bad kisser, but like you do have to get to know some of these men to your friend's point to figure out some of these things you're looking for aren't going to reveal themselves on a first, on the first few days. You actually have to spend time with them.

You have to see them in action. You might have to see them with, if they have kids with their kids and in vice versa. So, but to get to that point, would you, like, temporarily overlook the living at home situation with no plan to leave? Practically speaking, when it comes to this guy, you don't have anything to lose. I mean, what's a, it's a date, you know, it's in one night, you know. And if you're curious enough, give it a shot. But on that date, you could just be like, yeah, let's talk about your living situation,

because, you know, it's a lot. the signals are there for a guy who's maybe looking for someone to take care of them in a way that you aren't looking to take care of someone because most people would want to get out and it sounds like he can afford to get his own place but this is a conversation her and I have because she's like well if I do the map this that and the other he really doesn't have money after his child support and this that and the other you know his salary I mean I mean, life's for... I mean, I know roughly about what he makes.

And I'm like, all right, well, if he makes this much, and I know how much he was paying in child support. And I'm like, and then if he has a car payment, that's roughly this amount. Like, yeah, he maybe he could have saved X amount over the last year. And that's not enough to buy a house that... You would figure it out. You don't go to Egypt for a week for one week. Or keep up with you in the life you live.

Yeah, I don't mean, like, buying your presence and shit. But yeah, like, you know, relationships cost money. And, like, you want to be able to do things. And, like, he doesn't have any... disposable income. Also, he's very bored for a guy who needs the money. That I agree with. I don't think there's a lot to fight for. I mean, also, he didn't fight for you. Exactly. Right. He was quick to be like, okay, yeah. All right. I think it says you saw it coming. But more than anything, it doesn't matter that he saw it coming. He's comfortable with that, is the point.

Yes. Yeah. It doesn't bother him that women find his living situation to be not ideal, which tells. tells me that like finding, really finding a partner is not that big of a deal for him. He is more, he likes living with his parents and maintaining that status quo is more important than finding someone that fulfills his life. I don't know how else you can read that because he was like, yeah, a lot of other women I've dated, they've had a problem with it. And then you kind of brought up and you were quick to be like, I don't know. And he was like, yeah, okay.

If I'm him, I'd be like, I got to, I would, you would want to, you would want to, you would want to it's like a personal challenge be like you know what here's the plan you know not every guy's good with plans but it's more like he could have been like listen i think we should meet i really want to meet you and you know and see how you feel after that yeah whatever he was this more like i don't want to i don't want to have to explain my choices and justify my choices which he doesn't have to do you're a stranger to him but for that's that's not giving the type of man that you're describing True. So it's not just the living with parents.

He's everything we said he was, but he isn't. I know. People need time to show their true colors, I guess. You could say your one thing and not be. Maybe go on more dates, if anything. Just in general or go on a date with this guy? No, in general. Or we just like leave this guy.

I think we can forget this guy. Unless you're just really bored and he reaches back out, you're like, fuck it, you know. I don't think you should reach back out to him. No. Oh, no. Good. Yeah, no. Okay. But if he pops out of nowhere and he's free and he's like, you know what? If you're around, I'd love to meet up. What do you have to lose? Yeah. I wouldn't get all too excited. But in general, you might need to date more men and see where things go to actually get to know these guys a little bit better. But in terms of like, hey, I want to be boyfriend and girlfriend. I think you should remain picky. That's super fair. So date more, but keep your standards. is the same and be as picky, but just leave it open for a little bit longer before you say, yeah, no. Mind you, I've only been, like, dating again for, like, a month, like a few months now.

It hasn't been like, like, I've gone on and off the dating apps. Like, you'll go on and you'll be like, okay. Wait, so wait, what do you mean? You've only, you, how, how fresh is your divorce? No, my divorce is like 10 years ago, but like, I was dating someone, like, on and off a good chunk of the time, like eight or so of those years. For 10 years? Like eight of those years. On and off? What is on and off? Very on and off. What was that about? That's a whole, they were dating, but there was like the same arguments that couldn't be solved. And so they would

decide to like separate for a while. And somebody would say sorry. His daughter did not approve of our relationship. She thought that the marriage between her dad and her mom ended because of me. She thought I was a homewrecker. And so, and I wasn't, it was just, she was young and didn't understand the situation. And because of that, it made things very difficult throughout the entirety of our relationship. And when did that problem first pop up? I mean, I get, the beginning of that? Yeah.

I mean, like, it's always been an issue. But then there was a lot of promises. And then there was, well, talk to her and then it's better. And now it's worse again. And there was other things that came up in the midst of it. It wasn't necessarily because of that. But I would say that was like the main crux of it all, that it always kind of circled back to

is like, I would be able to get over this issue, but why would I work so hard to get over this issue if it's always going to be an issue with my daughter anyway? And you can't blame somebody for choosing their kids, right? No, I guess, I mean, in that regard, like that, you want to avoid that. And what I mean... Yeah, a lot of lessons were learned.

A lot of lessons were learned. So it's like on one end, be pissed, picky. Like you weren't picky enough in that situation, it sounds like to me, if we're just sticking with the picky thing. No, I definitely compromised way more than I should have my, I led with my heart on that one more than my brain. And what was so good that kept you around? I don't even know if I know how to explain it, but like when we were together, I was just like he, I was happy. I felt safe when we were together. And we, you know, like he was just, when things were good, he was everything I wanted. He was, you know, funny. So the feeling you felt

the good stuff with him. That's the feeling I think you should be focusing on as you date. Like, that it kind of, you know, however he made you feel, it sounds like, it was good, right? There was this problem that was a very kind of non-negotiable, it was this kid, you know, and it's one thing to like, all right, see, let's see if we can work through this problem. It sounds like this problem showed up pretty early in a relationship. And it took you guys almost a decade to figure out it wasn't going to work. work out. And it definitely did not take a decade. It could have taken months, maybe, maybe a couple

tries, maybe a year at best. And I think the thing you need to like be able, you know, it's like, you want to chase that feeling while keeping those standards of like who's someone who can actually maintain this feeling. And that's where as an older person, you can hold people more accountable. Because like at the end of the day, like life's full of, it's just about choices and what we prioritize, you know? He wasn't able to. figure out how to, you know, date with his daughter. You tried. You give him a chance. It sounds you gave him 20 chances. And that's where you need to, you need to have a better exit strategy. You know, when you're dating and you, you know, a problem shows up like that, you know, I would

give it maybe one or two tries, you know. Yeah. But, um, am I making sense? Yeah. And obviously, I'm simplifying, like, I'm dumbing down the relationship. You know, it was more than just that but like I feel like I'm sure it was but like the why you broke up was it was that was the reason yeah yeah and that was that was the reason eight years ago it was the reason why you ultimately ended the relationship yeah I mean the good news is again you do have kind of time to waste but like let's not waste time we don't need to waste you know because like again like if if you meet a guy tomorrow and date him for three years and break up you still have your friends you still have your kids, you get to start over.

My grandma, God bless her, the one I lived with. I mean, my grandfather left her for another woman in the 70s, and she had five kids. And the rest of her life, she just, like, dated rich men. They would die. She'd find another rich man. In her whole life, she had, like, five or six, like, rich boyfriends. It was brilliant, you know.

Practical. She seemed like she had a fulfilling life. It worked for her, you know? When you're younger and you haven't, like, fulfilled some of the dreams that you've fulfilled, it's kind of like, I got to start over. And the good thing for you is you'll never really have to, feel that again. You can choose to have the perspective of like, well, you know, like, yeah, I guess I'll start, it would be starting something new rather than starting over. Yeah, exactly.

You know, it'll be more, more memories with someone else. But like once you, you know, I'm guessing if if you're you, you would rather meet your next real partner when you're 45 and that if that person ends up being your person in a lifetime, does it really make a difference when you met him at 45 or 43? No. I would be just as happy living my life for the next three years doing my own thing and then meeting my person at 45. Yeah. And meeting the wrong now, especially, like, I don't need to waste me. So to strike the balance between like date more, get to know more men, feel things out, when you meet someone who you really like who makes you feel a certain type of way, then you have to kind of change your calculus and then have to like, you know, think about, is this feeling sustainable? Do they show up the way I need them to show up consistently?

And then if a problem, like, you know, kids or whatever, because there's a chance that, like, there's a good chance a lot of the guys you're going to date might have kids as well, you know, because from a compatibility standpoint, it's like two people who've already had kids, they've been divorced. You can relate to each other. chances are you probably be another guy who also doesn't want to have kids. And that works out really well. But like, you've experienced that that also can be a complication. But like, now you've realized that, like, you know, it's either it's going to work out or it's not. It won't take. 10 years to figure out whether his is a problem it's a problem you know I think you're doing okay yeah now you're you're relatively new in the dating game I think you just date I wouldn't even been thinking about finding your person right now just date have some fun meet some men good idea I mean I have like I've dated like on and off I've dated in between a little bit um so it's not like I haven't dated at all but it's all been trying to be serious eventually and I'm just like having fun yeah But you also have the benefit of not, like, reaching out to him would be chasing. Don't chase.

Yeah. I'm not a chaser, no. I feel like, and I'm not trying to sound cocky. Like, I feel like I have a lot to offer, you know, like I do. I have my shit together. So I'm definitely not going to chase somebody. That's for sure. I've chased the, I've chased long enough.

I'm good. And just try to have fun. I mean, as, as horrifying as dating can be, it can be fun. Even if you just come home with a good story. Yeah. About tiny hands. I feel like that's all I am is like the friend with a good story. Like I feel like I go on these dates.

Worse people. There's worse rolls to play. Worst things to be known for. I'm like the 12th or the 13th wheel of my friend group that just like tells everyone my dating stories. Yeah. And I bet on some degree you enjoy being the center of attention when it comes to that. I mean, listen, I guess like I'm at this point, like I'm dating for the plot, you know?

Sure. I have to find some kind of fun in it or it's you laugh or you're crying. There's no clock ticking, you know? You can have some fun. Yeah. Yeah, and I definitely, you know, living with his parents is a huge red flag. Thank you. I feel validated.

You do. I know. Good for you. I tried. I tried to get past it. Yeah. I mean, again, if he was like, yeah, listen, it's not an ideal situation. I definitely need to get out.

And, you know, I've been looking around. I don't know, but my, you know, it's just, I've, even if he acknowledged he got a little comfortable with, like, helping his parents out. But this is not how he described a situation. It was like, hey, let's listen. There's child support. I don't know. It's like a lot. Yeah, you're going to have child support for another 10 years, buddy.

So. I think a guy who's ready to have what you want, it will be obvious. It will really stand out. And then the other stuff, you know, can you communicate, you know, emotional maturity? you're just going to have to spend some time with him to really, you know, you, there is no way you can tell me that you know this guy is emotionally immature. No, I just thought he showed signs of it, but obviously I was wrong. But you really need to get to know someone to find that out, you know?

Yeah. Because like some guy could like, be like, I don't know. I'm not quick to open up on day. Like I wasn't. I wasn't very talkative. You know, that wasn't my MO. I just also was like, I don't need to like, I don't want to tell everyone my life story. I think I'm pretty emotionally mature, but like I don't think I would present that on a first date necessarily.

Yeah. That's really depends on, you know, what are we talking about? I think it changes slightly though, too, because like you were saying you didn't have kids at that time. So it's a little bit different. I think for somebody who does have kids that is needs to focus on those types of things, a little bit more. A little bit, but you can really date for you. Like I don't imagine you're not feeling any pressure when you date to like introduce them to your kids anytime soon. You can really keep that separate, right? So like, I mean, I get what you're saying,

yes, but like you can kind of date like a 20-some-year-old where like, you know, your kids are fine. They have their dad. They have their mom. Yes, you're going to eventually want to meet a guy who you could incorporate into your life and would be good around your kids. But I guess my point is you're just going to have to take some time to get to know them. And because you are a mom with kids, I don't think there's any way to like, well, I have to figure that. I have to have to that out faster because I have kids. I think you can't really cheat it. I think you just have to get to know someone. And until you feel comfortable, you can keep that life, your dating life separate than your mom life, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. You can you can date a guy for like six

months and they don't really, they don't need to be involved. But in month four or five, you might be like, you know what? I thought he had it, but he doesn't. And I would also imagine you being a mom, like how he asks questions about your experience and how, you know, if he's also a dad, you know, him talking about his experience or his divorce as you guys get to know each other and that makes sense to open up about past dating relationships, a lot will be revealed about how he, how emotional, mature he is, you know. Does he sound empathetic to his ex-wife or does he talk a lot of shit, you know, is he? Yeah, that's a big, branch, like, that's a great.

you know, a lot will come up. But like, again, you just, you just have to date, you have to get to know some of these people and, and take your time. Yeah. Unless they live with their parents. Unless they were their parents. Or have small hands.

How small were these hands? Also, by the way, the small hands as well, like they probably weren't as small as I'm describing, even though they were just, they were very delicate, dainty hands. And I'm not even correlating it to anything. Like, that's not, that's not where my mind went. But he also later on,

that date basically said that women are the reason why male suicide rates are so high and also said that and was dead ass serious like he wasn't even like making a joke he was dead ass serious and then said that the problem with dating nowadays is that guys who are like nines or tens have lower standards so they'll have sex with like sixes and now these sixes these women who are sixes think they're like nines or tens because the guys have lower standards and they won't go for other sixes they only want to go for nines or tens so it like narrows down the dating. Okay, so that definitely wasn't the hands.

It wasn't just the hands. The hands was like literally just that. That's what I'm saying. The hands were the funny story. But like that's, first of all, he makes no sense. One, he clearly thinks he's a nine or a ten. And that he was not.

But yeah. Because I'm... Tiny hands alone put him out of six. I mean, listen, guys, when it comes to sex, they're not as choosy. So that they may be hooking up with not to make people into numbers. Right.

But I promise, like, the reality is, is the real nine, like, the nines are 10 guys. And if we were to oversimplified, I think we would classify, first of all, they have to be over six foot for any woman to think he's a 10. That's be real. He wasn't that either. And then he probably has to make like 250,000, you know, like, you know, when we over, you know, it's like those types of guys, they're, they're getting away with murder. And they're definitely not dating the sixes because it's the opposite.

It is, you know, you have a bunch of like 10 women chasing a bunch of like six and seven men. But the reality is, is like you don't have to be, you can be 511 and be a great partner and make a good living and be emotionally mature and be awesome. And like maybe you didn't stand out on the apps because you're 510. And you're like the fucking, you're a dream come true. You're James Marsden or whatever, you know? like you're just a, you know. Yeah. But because we oversimplify on the dating apps,

a lot of these great guys are not getting opportunities with, you know, I guess they're equals. Yeah. And then you have the quote unquote, you know, the guys over six foot making a lot of money. They're just, they're the ultimate fuck boy because they will have unlimited chances. All the access in the world. Yeah. Yeah.

Because like they'll, it's just, you know. They just have, they're like, they just have to be six foot. And they, again, the bars are, it's like, he has an arrest record. His credit's bad, but he is six to, uh, my God, you know. There are guys on the dating apps now that will put like their credit score on there as their picture, which I am like, that's hysterical to me. But yeah, that guy was, I mean, he's, he's, sounds like he's, he's listening to some kind of in-cell conversations.

Yes, exactly. Yes. I mean, listen, the male suicide rate is definitely a problem. and I think society doesn't address it the way it should. I don't think women are the reason. You know, I don't, I think it's bigger than that. But yeah. For him to say that with such confidence on a first date is crazy talk.

It's wild. Yeah. Yeah. He sounds like his six, who's maddy's not a 10 and hates women for it. That's exactly. Yeah, that's what that's. Yeah. I feel like you're like a true 10, quote unquote, that like you wouldn't think that way about

women. No, because the real. tens are they they actually probably have a very positive opinion about women. I wouldn't say a healthy opinion about women, but positive because again, they get to pick, you know, they're just, they're, they're not, they're just doing whatever the fuck they want, you know, and they're generally getting unlimited chances, you know. This guy's been rejected by probably, like, I mean, if he's doing this on the first date, imagine how many times he's done this on other dates and how, imagine how much he's, he's been rejected. Right. And I think a lot of men who do, don't have a lot of

lot of success in dating will ultimately, you know, like if they're, he's blaming women instead of looking in the mirror. And I mean, like, listen, I get there's something to be said. Like, I know that there's women out there who are like, they will set their stuff in six foot and they're not going to look at someone who's 511 or, you know, they have all these standards that are absolutely absurd. Like, I don't care about someone being 5'9 versus 6 foot too. Like that to me is like so irrelevant. But also, like, there's pictures of guys that are like giving a finger in their profile pictures or they're not even smiling. They just look miserable in all of their pictures. And it's like, in my opinion, like these girls are going for the guys that are showing confidence. And I mean,

I'm sure there's girls out there who are just filtering. Maybe like just put a little bit more effort. Like girls don't want to like swipe on a guy who just looks like he just got out of jail in his pictures. I don't know what girls look like on their dating profiles, but I feel like maybe we put a little bit more effort behind it. Are we only dating from the apps? I mean, it's probably hard to date otherwise. It's kind of like I said here when you date somebody, like after you've dated a few people kind of dated everybody, you would have dated in this area. I mean, I would say I don't expect a lot of men to be really good at curating their apps. Yeah, exactly. So maybe that's a lane where you can have a little bit more grace and be a little bit more experimental. You don't have to necessarily meet these

guys in person, but, you know, the guy who's, you know, maybe he just hasn't had a woman in his life for a couple years. Someone to be like, why are you flipping someone? Like, why do we go with that picture? He's like, I don't know. I just really liked my t-shirt in it or something. You know? It's so true.

It's so basic. You know, like, so maybe nuts, not juggered you book by its cover on the dating apps because, again, you're, you know, the guy who's really good on a dating app is not the guy you want to date. True. He's just, I have been a little bit more lenient on like the people that I'm liking, only because I'm like, all right, what's the worst case scenario? You talk to them.

and like you can tell that they're not it, you know, and you just never meet up with them. Or they have a good conversation and you can meet up with them. But like I've been trying to be a little bit more lenient on that, a little less picky. Yeah, I think that's where you are. You can be less picky. Just you actually have to meet some of these men in person in the wild.

That's the start. And then when you start liking them, that's when you can't, you should get picky again. Yeah, that's fair. When you're like, oh, this could be something. Then it's like, okay. but can it really be?

So, because right now you're being really picky with who you're dating online. Right? So then obviously that in itself gets very defeating on the apps where you're just like, I was on it for like two hours. I got like one match.

I didn't even really like them, you know? And then now you are, you're sitting here talking to me being like, well, you know, I don't know, you love those parents. Like, what was a big, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? Because you're kind of like,

not that you're desperate, but you're tired of striking out on the apps. So then you meet someone who's just like, has a heartbeat, you know, and it's like kind of decent and you're trying to make this work. But you have very limited experience of actually going on some actual dates. You have more experience talking to a bunch of random people who you like their profile picture. And then you're comparing that experience to like actual dating. So I would go on more dates, more conversations, actually get to know more guys,

even give some guys with some bad profiles, a little bit of a change. chance. And then I think that will help you be pickier when you actually start liking them. Be less picky to be picky. Yeah. Sure. Don't be picky off the jump. Well, you just have to, you actually have to get some experience engaging with these men that you potentially want to date and get to know them. You can be talking to three or four guys and, you know, date around and, you know, you don't

have to, like, lock in right away. Yeah. So, like, don't ask if they live with their parents or not. and just go on the date and then ask if they live with their parents. Yeah, well, to that point, you were like, you hadn't even met him in person, and you had already decided that he was too good to be true. And then you asked a question about, like, well, what's wrong with you? You're getting all this information around something you've never met in person. Yeah, that's true.

Like with him in the future, I would have been like, this is, you know, like you seem really great. I'd like to meet up with you someday. It sounds like your life's really busy. But let's like keep in touch and let me know when you're free. But I wouldn't spend too much time talking to someone you haven't met. So like, are you saying like keep the communication like quasi minimal and like not until you met in person?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, if you're having, whatever, if you're having fun, you know, whatever, you know, like, I mean, I guess, but I wouldn't be, you just, you don't want to fall for someone over your phone, which I think a lot of people in this day and age do. Being on The Bachelor is a, how, the reason it. works is because you fall in love with the idea of someone, right? You spend more time away from them

than with them. And it works in that environment because you have these little bursts of excitement in these moments and then they pull you away. And then you're fantasizing and you insert like what you think it's, you play it out in your head. So you build this relationship in your head. And in a lot of ways, that's how online dating can work, right? You you like their profile picture, they're six foot. but they talk about their job in an exciting way. They're good at talking on the phone or, you know, online or whatever. But you haven't really met them, but like what you've learned, the little bit you've learned, is exciting.

And then you start allowing yourself to quote unquote like them and develop feelings for something you've never met. So I'd be very careful about really investing a lot of your time with something you've never met in person. And if their schedules don't allow it, then their schedules don't allow it. Circle back, you know. In the meantime, you're probably going to be picking, anyways, if you happen to meet someone and fall in love of them before you meet up,

then so be it. You know, like, what do you? And they weren't the person anyway. Yeah. Yeah. But you're, you're like, you're striking out as often people do on the apps because options are limited in general. And then you found one guy that you were kind of like, okay, there's something here.

And then you dove into that. And even though his schedule wasn't really allowing you to meet up, you still like kind of started liking them, even though you know nothing about them. So that's the thing I'd be careful about doing. Okay. Now that makes sense. that's there. I mean, it's a common, you know, you're not the only one out.

Dating is hard, you know. I mean, yeah, you could probably say yourself, right? Do you think the people you're talking to have the full picture of who you are before they meet you? Probably not, I guess. Even, you know, and even if you're being totally honest, again, you have to meet someone in person, their vibe, their energy, you know, just like. Yeah. If they're boring or bubbly like you can't get that over test. Yeah.

And I think, like, I was having that conversation with him, too, like when he was. saying like, I don't know, we vibe. We vibe. That's what he's like, oh, I called you babe because we vibe. And I was like, I don't think you could really tell if you vibe with someone until you meet them in person. Like that I completely agree with. Like, you don't know what that like chemistry is going to be like until you have, you know,

you meet somebody. But that doesn't mean that I wasn't necessarily like starting to like him a little. Like is such a. You liked him a little. I liked him a little. You and I were arguing about it. But like, it's not like I was like, oh, if he stopped talking to me tomorrow, I would cry over it or that I would be upset.

It would be like, oh, that's disappointing. liked him enough to maybe make excuses. Yeah, yeah. No, it's just that you spent too much time thinking about him, talking about him with your friends, discussing him, debating him, when he hadn't even met him. And I think he were compelled to do that because it was the first person you remotely liked on the apps in a couple months.

And then there was one guy who was like, man, are you an Andrew Tate fan? Or like, he is. He was. Yeah. It's your fault. Men killed themselves. Whoa. Whoa.

Yeah. We were like going for a walk on the beach. I'm like, let's turn around. I don't know. This feels unsafe. I like it. Okay. Was this helpful?

Yeah. Yes. No, I appreciate it. I think it was because as the friend saying, the rose-colored glasses on her eyes were too rosy, thank you for helping me with my point and getting that across. Yeah.

And I appreciate, like I do like, I question myself a lot. Like I said, between being too picky. not picky enough. So I don't think in general your friends telling you are too picky is very helpful. I think I tell her to be more picky. She tells me to be more picky. Yes.

She's definitely not the one that tells me I'm too picky. But so keep me. I'll keep you around. I mean, friends in general are like the worst when it comes to relationship advice. Only because like what's your relationship. I mean, they're all married. Are you married?

You married? No, I'm in an 11 year relationship and I'm not engaged or anything. You want to talk about it? Nope. You want to talk about it? Exactly. Yeah, I'm probably not right.

But everyone wants to live vicariously through their friends. Everyone wants to talk about their friends when they want to talk about their own problems and everyone's a relationship. I just know if I were single, I would be much more picky. Yeah, you'd be impossible. So that's why I try to get her to be a little more picky. Why hasn't he asked? Good question.

I mean, his answer is that he doesn't want to spend the money on a ring if he's not sure I'll 100% like it because they are. expensive so I've sent him pictures of things I would like. That is why it may be my responsibility to go like pick it out in person, I guess. So for me, that's not something that I would want to do. So I haven't. I'm not entirely sure. This is for another episode.

Like serious, this could be like a two hour conversation. No, it's really, this is a, this is a 30 second conversation. Then I'll let you ladies go. But I am someone before we got engaged. Like, you know, I think most guys, you know, it's like, really unromanticed to be like, we're going ring shopping and then like, wait, I'm, yeah, that's my perspective. Don't take that. Don't take that experience. Like, I don't mind sending you things I like, but from there, that should be on you. Right. But like, you can get real specific. Now I, like, at the end of day, I was like, I didn't really pick out a ring. I mean, I picked it out. But like, I, I had the information. Right. Yeah. I mean, I've sent screenshots of exactly like the type of band. the shape of the diamond, all that. Yeah, anything from cut, the whole thing, you can describe the whole goddamn ring. You can literally show him a picture of like, just get this.

And then he can still go out and get it. Exactly. So what's his problem? Don't get me started on this one. I don't know. Yeah, it's a whole different conversation. I wish, I think that she needs to, I don't think he's, I don't know. I don't know if he's 100% in it.

Like I don't think. I would agree that thought has, you know, crosses my mind. But considering me bent a little for long, it's like a weird thought to have crossed your mind, right? So I don't think it's that. I just don't think he doesn't have to propose to keep you around. I think he's very complacent. But I'm also one of those people that like, I don't know if like putting a timeline on

something of like, oh, I want it to be done within the next year. Oh, but you want to have kids with him. And he knows that you will only have kids. And he wants kids to. And you only have kids if you guys are at least engaged. And he's still not doing it knowing that. Okay. So I'll give him a timeline.

But you're, she's right. You know, it's the conversation is around like. I know you're not wrong. You don't think that I like think about it off like every now and then I'm like this is crazy. Like what am I doing? Like I've had the conversation with him like telling him like you know when you first start dating somebody you think like okay, two years from now I'd like to be engaged. And then that doesn't happen. You're like do I set like a bat like a timeline on this? And then you're like, okay, well it's been five years. So like, okay, it's seven years if we're not engaged. And then just here we are like life goes on. I think he just needs a little kick in the pants. So threaten to leave him. Yeah. I mean without like. I mean, No, listen, like the thought of conversation that's across my mind is being like, where do you want to be in the next year from now? Because this is where I want to be. I want to at least be engaged. Well, I think you should start with where I want.

I don't want to ask him. I always be like, hey, can we, you know, like, we have to have a serious conversation. Like, whatever. Like, I want to have kids someday. I want it soon and later. You know how I feel about having kids not engaged. Like, you know, we do need to get a shit, get off the pot. And I want to know that you're serious about this.

And right now, like, the whole ring thing sounds like a really convenient excuse and then it's kind of annoying. Well, exactly. Because then it sounds like you're coming up with excuses. And like he's, you know, probably. And then I like tell myself in my mind that like he's also like a child of divorced parents. And so maybe he has like a issue there. Exactly. I love it.

I really try to like put myself in other people's shoes. And I think a lot of times I just end up making like excuses on their behalf. I don't think you need to threaten to leave, but you do need to change. the comfort level that he has. I would agree. Yeah. I can do that. And you,

you, one serious conversation after another. Well, you can almost be like, are you really going to make me, like, do the ultimatum thing? Like,

are you going to make me beg for this? Like, come on. You don't want that. I don't want that. Well, I wouldn't know. So.

But eventually you might have to leave. I just feel like, saying it allowed to give him the chance before I just decided my own mind, like, oh, if I'm not engaged within a year, I'm leaving.

Like, I feel like, yeah, I have to say that. because he would know otherwise, I guess. Well, I wouldn't say it like that because then he'll wait the year. Don't give him the whole like two year plan. It's more like if you're not going to do this,

I need to start thinking about a life outside of this relationship. I love that verbiage. Okay. Clip this and send it to us. But yeah, if you're like, hey, you have a year, he's not going to think about it for 11 months. Yes. Yeah.

I also just like don't love the idea of feeling like I have to say that because then it's like, are you doing it because you really, really wanted to, or are you just doing it because you're like, okay, this is my only option. So it's like, that's why it's like, I stand on the side of just not saying anything to allow like him to come to that conclusion on his own. Unfortunately, like the whole like marriage, you know, the marriage conversation is like, it's tough, you know, it's like there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of reasons to get married these days from a practical standpoint, you know, you really, it has to, you have to just kind of throw caution to the wind and still kind of be a romance.

And I think that's the part you have to try to communicate to him that you still want some romance in your relationship. I would agree. I do always agree. Does it happen? No, but I do always agree. Oftentimes you guys will have conversations and he'll sometimes be receptive to the conversations. And like short term, you'll feel like something happened and like there's a change. But then at the end of the day, long term, it's just kind of reverts back to the original.

Yeah. It's like I'm 30. We're 32. There's always going to be a good. good reason not to get engaged and get married. I think you kind of level with them that like, let's be honest. Like if we're going to be pragmatic about this, we will never get engaged, you know? Yeah, I also think like if your aspect is like, well, we argued six months ago. And so now I feel like I need another year to decide. It's like, but for me, it's like you're either

the one I want to argue with or you're just not the one. Right. Do you blame us on an argument? No, but I'm saying like I think that could be part of the thought process. Like something could happen where he's like, you know, maybe we disagree on something or like we're not line somewhere. You had a hard time. Like there was, you have moments where there you had like a hard time in your relationship that you had to work through.

You guys have had to have hard conversations. It's called marriage. And you probably. Yeah, like we're basically married already though. Right. But he'll take those moments and kind of. And he like stews about yeah,

to the point of like being like, okay, well now I need to see like. If there's, if this is going to work for us. Yeah. In couple therapy? I said,

I have tried to get her to. I've said it and he did agree. but then I just like did it go like do anything about it but I think if I like went home today and it's like I really want to do like a couple he would like say fine okay well you need to make you yeah I think you need to create some urgency in your relationship okay well thanks for the call ladies do for the price of one yeah yeah right thanks uh well keep us posted on your dating life as it goes around we'd love to hear some of your successes or or stories I will give you all my horror stories and my success stories.

I'll share your email with her. Okay. All right. I appreciate the call. It was nice to meet you. Likewise. Thanks. Bye-bye. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name?

Jenna, I am 33. I was browsing Facebook one day and a hunk of a man popped up in my people you may know. And I wanted to shoot my shot with him, not knowing a thing about. about him, but I'm still legally married. Okay. Are you separated? Yeah. Separated.

Been separated for about 10 and a half months. Okay. And I live in a state where you have to be separated for one year before you can file for divorce. Oh, okay. I think they make it really hard to get divorced on purpose here unless there are extenuating circumstances like someone cheated or they're an alcoholic or they're an alcoholic or there's been abuse or you've been abandoned for a year.

So. And so you're just looking for permission to shoot your shot. Have you shot your shot or you're just, you have. Well, so there's, yeah, there's a development there. I noticed this sort of late July, noticed this man late July, message to you guys on July 29. Now, in my sleuthing, his Facebook and Instagram are both incredibly public. But in that, I realized that his birthday was August 14th.

So when I emailed you guys, I was like, I think there's, there's opportunity here, you know. But then I didn't hear from you. And I had about one too many sips of a drink one night. And I decided to shoot my shot. And I still think that I did very well. And so, but I ended up messaging him on Instagram because I feel like people are a little bit more active on Instagram. So I messaged him there and I said, let's call it a blind-ish date lunch on me, August 14th. And I haven't heard him in.

And I don't know if he read it because we don't follow each other. Like, I know nothing about this man. Well, I know some things. So you've never met him. He's just a random guy that you. He's just a random guy. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, yeah. He has piqued my interest. Yeah. I mean substantially. Okay. Well, what? I know it sounds ridiculous.

Okay. That means... Now, first attraction was just purely physical, like face, all of that. So he's already got me with that. But then the more that I started looking mainly through his Instagram, he just seems like a wonderful person. Okay. So I wanted to try.

Well, you tried. There's no harm in trying. I tried. Yeah. But I think you need to just be careful about. developing how excited you get about people you don't know yeah yeah I felt like I was going there yeah yeah yeah you know this person sounds like their again their social media was pretty public and so it gave you a lot of potential information that is still highly curated by him

and it would be pretty easy for you to fall for the idea of someone and then insert a lot of narratives in your head about who you think they might be. And maybe you nailed it. I don't know. But probably not, you know, because again, it's highly curated. In general, though, I would say when it comes to shooting your shot, when it, you know, with people online, I love the asservedness. I think there's a lot of people who spend too long talking to strangers online before they

go on first dates. But nowadays, usually you want to have some kind of rapport with someone before you're like let's meet up. Like on his birthday too, by the way. Listen, I don't disagree, but it seemed like an opportunity. And again, I was- What was the opportunity? His birthday?

Yeah, yeah, it was his birthday. So there was, you know, something there that I could talk to. And I ended up talking with me. Did you like wish him a happy birthday? Well, no, because I messaged him, I messaged him August 2nd. Okay. And his birthday was two weeks later. But do you think, I mean, you seem wonderful and you're a beautiful person, but do you think

it's likely that he's going to spend his birthday on a date with a stranger? Well, probably not. But that wasn't the point. I mean, you know, he, to start creating that rapport, because at that point, you know, we had, say that we did, you know, go to lunch on his birthday, that was still 12 days of being able to build rapport. And what if we talked every other day, Tim, messages exchanged a day. Yeah, but he doesn't know that. What I'm just saying next time you shoot your shot online. I would, you know, I would just, you know, I'm more like a, I don't know, hi, you know,

ask a question like, oh, I was looking in your page. I'm really intrigued by this, you know. Then you see if he writes back and then maybe you start building rapport and then you ask on a date. but I feel like you put the carpet for the horse a little bit. You think I went too far? You think you read it? It was like, oh, my God, this girl's nuts? Nuts is a little strong. No.

I am. Too assertive? I don't even think it's thinking of it too assertive. I think just practically speaking, he is probably, let's assume, think about it, just think about it pragmatically. If you found out that this guy had no one to hang out with it on his birthday, that'd be kind of a red flag. That's true.

Yeah. You know, if he was available to go on a date with you, not that, you know, not definitely a red flag, but I'm just saying, I'm guessing the type of man that you're going to be interested has some kind of fulfilled life where he has, and he has his people. And he probably has the ability to, like, have some, you know, he has plans on his birthday. And then you, a stranger, reaches out to him, like, I pencil me. in for your birthday in hopes that he's going to want to like see a picture and be like, you know, and that's possible.

Yeah. But again, like, the problem with online dating sometimes is that it's very easy to feel rejected, even though we don't have a lot of good reasons to feel rejected because you're not being rejected for who you are often. You're being rejected by the idea of someone has of you, right? Right. So I think you probably, yeah, you probably put the cart before the hars. And he was like, I don't know what to do with this.

I don't even know who this person is. I got plans anyways. Yeah. Well, and maybe this is more telling than I imagined because I feel like, you know, if someone messaged that to me, I probably wouldn't have been like, yeah, I'll go to lunch with you on my birthday, but I would be like for the just pure balls on this person to do that. But that's me. That's you.

That's me. And I understand that's probably not everyone either. I just think in general, since you're new at this whole dating thing, you know. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I would, you know, you're going to need some practice. And I also would just be very careful about falling for people online.

Yeah, I do worry about that. And I am trying to be extremely cautious of that. Like, that's my first time ever doing that. But like I've got kids, you know. And so I can't just be reaching out to the first person or anyone that I think looks attractive, you know, or that catches my eye and things like that. So I am trying to be cautious of the whole internet space of it all. So listen, I think there's some pros and cons of this. Like one, I think it's a scary to date in general. I think in your, you know, and for you, it's probably a little extra scarier that you haven't, you haven't dated in a while. Like when was, how long were you married for? Eight years. So you're married for eight years.

You probably, you know, so it's probably been a good decade before you really been in the dating game, right? Yeah. So your inexperienced, times have changed. You got to give yourself some grace. I think the win is, is that, like, it took a lot of assertiveness and a lot of guts for for you to reach out. And it takes a lot of assertiveness, assertiveness and guts to date.

So you have that going for you. So like pat yourself on the back for like, you know, the assertive to do that. But be very careful about like the whole internet stalking, nothing you're stalking, you know, but like you were spending a lot of time on his page. Reading about him. Sure.

But you can't fall in love with someone you do research on. online. That's true. And again, their social media is highly curated. And it's just, you know, you don't need that much information to want to go on a date with someone. And I think you went a little bit too far on the getting to know him to give him. And maybe that's because you just weren't an experience and you, maybe, you know, in this particular situation, I'm sure it was nervous to do it at all, to your point. So you needed like a, good reason to take that much of a risk. I don't disagree. I think that I'm going to have a hard

time finding the balance. What's the balance you speak of? Well, between, you know, I can't imagine not having done some research on someone before engaging in them at all. For sure, but that's like a quick Google search to make sure they weren't arrested or they're not like an obvious red flag, but there's only so much you can actually learn about someone. You know, you could do like maybe, you know, I don't think their curated Instagram is the way to go about it. That's true, you know, and it very well may have turned out that, you know, say I did end up going on the state with him and he's a terrible person, you know, and that would have been fine, you know, because at that point he would have went from, you know, wow, you're so attractive to,

no, thank you. But I'm just saying as you get back out there in the dating world, right, whether it's on the apps or you get introduced by someone or, you know, local community or whatever, I think it makes sense for anyone, but especially for women to, you know, do a little homework, you know, quick Google search, you know, make sure they weren't arrested, make sure there's no, like, obvious red flags. There's also those, you know, in various cities they have like, there's those like Reddit pages of like, don't date this guy if he shows up.

And, you know, that might be worth looking into. Those are around. But I think there's a big difference between the low hanging fruit things you can do to make sure they're not a freak or a weirdo. Yeah. And I think that's very different than coming across someone's page online, being captivated by what you see. and then doing a deep dive on their social media

only for you to get more excited about their potential and get more kind of like and start painting a picture about who they are before you've actually met them. Those are two very different things. One is you're making sure you're safe and like the bare minimum and the other one is falling for someone you don't know at all.

Yeah. Part of dating and the downside of dating is you're going to have to when you're ready to start saying yes to some dates. And I encourage you to say yes to dates where you know less about what you knew about this guy and you are less excited than you were because, quite frankly, you were almost too excited to meet this man. Yes. What I mean by that is he would have had to done very little to impress you.

and he would have had to done more to like bring up red flag because you already came in there with with some you know preconceived biases and all he had to do was confirm those biases about him for you to be like oh my god he's perfect that's going to stop you from actually getting to know someone on a date i don't disagree um feeling a little silly but it's my first time so i'm listen don't don't feel don't feel silly you listen like how you it's a fun story you're to make mistakes. Like, this shit is hard. You have no experience when it comes to common dating.

You've been out of the game for a while. And it makes a lot of sense why you needed like, you found a reason to get excited about someone. And maybe that's all of what you needed with this guy. But I would just, again, just, I would encourage you to take more chances on some actual dates with people. Yeah. And with a willingness to get to know them.

You don't have to feel like I might meet my husband on this date. date because I'm so excited about his resume. Yeah, and that will, I'm not ready for another husband. But you know what I'm saying. Yes, I do. But, you know, that also is, I feel like going to help me because I'm not like when I was, you know, outdating 10 years ago, it was like, okay, you know, I'm ready. I, you know, that was kind of one of the big, you know, goals, but now eventually, but not. Yeah, you can take your time. You can have some fun. You know, it's just get some practice.

You should think about it like practice. And all you really need to go on a date right now is a little curiosity. Yeah. And a little bit of due diligence to make sure you're safe. Yeah. You knew a little bit too much about it. Yeah, and I didn't think of it that way. That's okay.

Yeah. Well, but, I mean, you know, to your point, you know, I haven't done this. So when I, the opportunity for me to know too much was there and I went like hard down in that rabbit hole. But yeah, I think, you know, you make a good point of, you know, even if I did meet him, I would already have this image of him made up in my mind. And he would have to work harder to show me the red flags because I already see him in this other light. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, second color of reference the Bachelor. But like, you know, when women who go on the bachelor, there's this idea of them, you know, they're the bachelor.

And like, they're like, here's the bachelor. He's got this job. And it's like, it's an oversimplified resume. But the idea of him or her, if it's the bachelorette is enough for these people to just get really excited. And then they have to do very little to actually get people to fall for them. Yeah. Because they're propped up on a pedestal. So you don't want to do that. No. Try the apps. You know, perhaps are a nightmare. But, you know, you just, I would just, I would just, you're not even divorced yet.

You certainly have permission for me if you want to start dating and not wait for your divorce. But definitely give yourself some grace. And I would just be like right now, you're not looking to get married anytime soon. You don't need a man. You just need some experience and have some fun with it. All you need is a little curiosity and a little due diligence to say yes to dates. And then go on some of these dates and meet some of these guys. Yeah.

I like it. practice. Practice sounds fun. I did. I remember in my early 20s, I loved dating. I took advantage of dating. Find that again. Yeah. That is exciting. So, all right. Very good. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Well, thanks for the call. Yeah. Listen, before we cut off, I'm a twin mom, so I have to ask, how are things going? Yeah. It's going great. All things is going great. Yeah. It's going great. Yeah. It's going great. You know, highs and lows with everything. There's moments where it can be a lot, but we're very lucky. And she's, Nally's doing great. The twins are doing great. Good. Two girls, two boys, one of each? Two boys. They're four. Oh, wow. So, yes. Yeah,

they're a lot. And it's always, it's always a lot, you know, but the hard, the hard changes as they get older. So, all right. Well, good luck. Stay off, stay offline. you know, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, listen, I feel for you and don't feel silly, but I think it's just, it's very easy. People talk a lot of more about these parisocial relationships with people. And it's, I think nowadays it's easy to quote unquote fall for people online and think like we know them. And it's easy for people to put out a persona and maybe they're that person, but maybe they're not.

But like dating requires human connection and human contact. You need to get out there. You need to meet people. get some practice and have some fun. Yeah. You're right. I'm looking forward to it. All right.

Take care. Good luck. All right. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Bye bye. Bye, how's it going?

Hi, Nick. My name is Leia. I'm 36. And my question is, should I keep dating after recently becoming pregnant or remove myself to laughter? And how do I navigate a community of judgment around this? Okay. Well, there's a lot to unpack.

there. So when you say, should I keep dating, I'm assuming you're single. Yes, I am. Well, first of all, congratulations. Thank you. Sounds like you seem a little overwhelmed right now, so maybe you don't feel like receiving a congratulations, but. Very overwhelmed, to be very honest. So are you comfortable describing how, like, were you dating the guy that you got pregnant with, or what role is he playing in this scenario? So there was a backstory to this. The backstory is that I actually grew up in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish community and the East Coast, which is actually really popular community. And that's why it's like layered.

I got married really early, like the age of 20 and had the kids, got divorced, left and kind of started navigating. my way into the world. You said you had a kid? Yes. I have a 16 year old. Okay. Almost 16 year old. Yes, I was like 20. I was literally a kid when I had a kid, so I didn't really know much about the world at all. It's a popular community. People know people around here and people know me. Like a lot of my job is, my career path is within the community. I don't, I'm not really in the community, but I'm like adjacent to the community. So despite, did you kind of, did you leave the religion? I mean, I'm not, I mean, no.

No, it's okay. Okay. I'm familiar enough with Orthodox Jews that, like, I know that it is a tight-knit community. Yes, it is. What I'm unfamiliar with is I think there's a lot of perceptions that, like, you're either in or you're out. Yeah. And so is that accurate or, because it sounds like you're not.

really in, but you're still, again, a part of the community. You're so on point. So basically, it's very tight-knit, and it's not, they're not very, like, forgiving, hence why I said the word judgment. But I would say, you know, I'm 36. When I was 20 and I left, it was way more, like, you know, in 2026, a lot has changed. A lot more people have left. I was one of the first ones. And probably the only one in a, I went to an all-girls school, a big one, a popular one. And there's only what, I'm the only one in my class that lives this lifestyle. They still hit me up.

They like me now and all that. But anyway, I... When you say lifestyle, the lifestyle of being less devout and they are more devout? So to basically rein it in, I would say that I live a very modern lifestyle. I still observe a lot. like Shabbat, which is every Friday. Like a Catholic. Similarities,

because I am curious about different religions, and I listen to the show, like, every Monday you're like in my ear. So I come from a family of 11. Like I grew up very, we were actually not, we were considered on the outskirts. My family was not, it was like the, the community I grew up was very much like the Hasidic version

of gossip girl, literally. Okay, sure. Like who was who and who knows who and it's like a hierarchy. But anyway, I digress a little bit. But to summarize, and correct me if I'm getting anything that's wrong, but your adult life,

you have been dealing with fitting in with the community in which you were raised in. Yeah. You've already branched out. You've already faced, judgment. You've dealt with it, probably, you're probably still dealing

with it. You've probably gotten just better at dealing with it. And now you are pregnant out of wedlock, which the hardcore religious people tend to frown upon that. And now you are, this is reemerging. Is it more intense?

Does it feel different? Is it more of a triggering response to like just, knowing, oh, here we go again. What are you feeling right now? I would say that, like, I've done such a good job in the healing journey. I've literally talked about therapy all the time. I've been in therapy literally for a decade, you know?

I've made such significant changes in the fact that, like, I accept myself so much, that now the community as a whole, yeah, they look at me as different. Yeah, I'm different. I work with them. I respect them. They don't consider me as like theirs, but they respect me for where I am. and I'm still... Do you business with you?

Yeah. Great. They do. Great. They do. I love the fact that I can still enter into their world and then I leave their world. And that's kind of how it's been.

Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Outside of just knowing that you're being judged, right? And when we know we're being judged, it's just, you know, it's not fun. You know, we would rather not be judged. And by judgment, I mean like judgment in a negative way, not a judgment in a positive way. but what are you not getting from this community? Like take away the judgment, which it sucks.

But like you're living your life, you've gotten better at, you know, being happy who you are. And whether you are coming, you know, from your lived experience, which is like, it's probably a little bit more intense, there's judged, everyone deals with some kind of judgment. You know, I'm not here to compare or say that one's worse or better, you know, everyone has theirs.

But we all deal with it. What are you not getting from this community? that you wish you were getting? Most of my friendships now, and I've done a great job of making a life for myself in the modern, secular world. I really have. And I'm proud of it.

You know, I didn't grow up with any of the rules and know-house from the outside world. I figured it out by really fucking up a lot. A lot of acceptance for the unique individual that I am, that I get that from the outside world, from my friends. And yet I don't fit in there fully. I didn't go to college, you know, like all of those things.

But I know the rules of society well and I figured stuff out. So this community has zero tolerance policy. Like I face the, you know, I'm not showing yet. I'm literally like three months in. I face becoming viral gossip. I mean, for some people, that's like great. Sure. I hear you.

But I want to pause and I want you to indulge me because you're avoiding the question. Take your time to think about the question. Because what you described is, and again, I'm not saying it doesn't suck, but you're describing judgment and shame and criticism. I want you objectively, what are you, like, and again, maybe you want more acceptance

and that can be an answer. To live the life that you want to live, to do the things that you want to do, to have the career that you want to have, to be the mom that you want to be. What do you need from this community that you're not getting? Belonging and approval. Okay.

I've stopped waiting for it. I've stopped asking for it. I've stopped expecting it. But we acknowledge that you made a choice several years ago. And the lack of belonging and acceptance is something you've probably always craved from this community once you made that shift, correct? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think it's safe to say, correct me if I'm wrong, at least in our lifetime, well, I'm sure even the acidic Jewish community is progressing overall relative to say 100 years ago. They're probably- They're trying because it's become so- It's necessary almost for the- So many people are like leaving, you know, but then there's the old-timers trying to hold on. For sure. But let's just assume in your lifetime and our lifetime, they're not going to come so far around that they're going to not judge you for some of your choices starting with leaving the religion right and I mean like this story the backstory of this baby and how it like came about no no I hold up but like let's get into

that for in a second but like I just stick stick with me here okay but we accept that right we acknowledge that just whatever progress that community makes in terms of adapting some of the things that you've adapted and therefore feeling more accepted mostly before the pregnancy even happened, you were not receiving the level of acceptance and belongingness that you wish you received from this community given some choices, correct? Zero. Okay, great. It started very around. But, okay, but that that is happening. And we agree that it's probably not going to change in your lifetime. Probably not. All right. All right. I think that's this important for you to recognize. It's not fair. It's not right. You don't have to be happy about it, but you do have a choice, you know, on some level. And

that choice is to find the good and the bad, right? Yeah. What are you getting from this community? I'm very grateful for a lot of the things that I have. Yeah, yeah, but, but I just want to hear you say it. I want objectively speaking, what are you getting from this community? Because you're still involved. Yeah.

Outside of you just being like, you know what? I'm going to go, I'm going to go full tilt. I'm not talking to any of those people. I'll keep in touch with my parents and my siblings, but like I'm done with that community. I would have moved to wherever the fuck. and I'm going to invest in my newer friends who share my beliefs, who make me feel welcomed and belonged, what is stopping you from, I'm not encouraged you to do that either, because I imagine you are getting some benefits from this community. What are those benefits? Well, for one,

a lot of my career and the fact that I can enjoy the lifestyle that I have today has been built around the fact that I am popular and people trust me and I was able to build a career name for myself and I'm good at it. Do you feel like that community overall, despite their judgment as you, the individual, supports your career and makes you feel valued with what you offer them? Depends on the individual. Depends on them. Yeah.

Some more than others. But is it enough to make you feel valued in your profession? Yes, for a large part. I'm not wanting to just like pounce on the negative, so to speak. I definitely, you know, enjoy, like, I'm very grateful and I recognize that. I think it's just like the, on some level, I didn't realize that I would be dealing so much shame. And I think it's one thing when you leave and you change your clothes and you start living a different lifestyle. and you have different friends, and it's a whole other thing to be out there and being very pregnant. Do you, I understand. Do you think that shame will translate into more people? And I'm sure there might, of course, there might be more.

But like, enough where you will, like, will, it will affect the benefits you're receiving from this community? So that's a fear. It's a legit fear that I might have to change. change careers, maybe move states. I don't know. I like where I live. I have a really good life here.

So you are objectively worried that it was one thing for you to leave the religion and get divorced and be a single mom. But getting pregnant in your situation will be a bridge too far. I am so one out of the box. You have no idea. Were you one out of the box before you got pregnant? Well, there were a lot more. When I left, yeah, it was like me and a handful of others. But now there's a lot of women and whatever. But what happens is that I find that the way that I'm unique is that I've like really explored, I've ventured out.

I've dated non-Jewish people and I've literally gone out and just like done stuff and made something of myself. and I'm not the same person. I was 10 years ago versus when people leave, they change their clothes, they change their hairstyle, whatever, they still stay in the same circle. It's the same five,

seven people, you know, and the baby's dad it's not Jewish. The baby's what? The baby's dad is not Jewish. Okay. Is that going to surprise people?

Well, my parents don't know. It took a lot to tell them the actual story. Your parents know you, do your parents? My dad kind of put the, my dad kind of put the phone down on me. At first, he was like, I should be able to survive this. Do you question his love?

Well, I never questioned my dad's love. I did question my mom's. I had a difficult upbringing with my mom. I've managed the relationship over years. I've managed to really heal, put effective boundaries in place, speak up for myself in a way that I feel good and still have a good relationship. they always want me to come home. You know, they always won't want to see me.

But my, like, at some point when I was having like a more unpacked conversation with my dad, he like, he kind of teared up. And he was like, have I not loved you like enough? Like what has gotten you to? It's so like not okay. Like a baby out of my block. It's, I'm telling you. That's the part that I still have mentally like wrap my head.

I'm so excited in a perfect world. If I was, if I grew up secular, whatever. Couldn't kill us. I'm so, I'm so excited. I've gotten it to, the thing is that, like, I basically was traveling abroad. I mean, that's like the backstory. I was going, I was going to Europe, and I was going to go with a friend, and two days before the trip, she literally bounced. So I was like, should I cancel this trip? Should I not? I don't know. Okay. And I was like, ooh, first solo trip. I'm turning 36. Let me do this. Okay. Anyway, When I got there, I had, well, not when I got there.

Like, as I was like preparing for the trip, a couple of years prior, I'd been to that country before, and I'd met this guy and we hit it off and we hooked up. And we stayed in touch. It was very obvious that realistically it's not going to work. I'm here. He's there. Whatever. And I was like, this is just sex.

Anyway. Anyway, you got pregnant. Well, I came back. and I was so low there and I was so lonely. I was like, he was like in my DMs and he was in my Instagram stories and I had enough of a comfortable connection with him where he wasn't just the one I stand at this point.

And I know it's like ridiculous, but like I was so shocked that he like didn't pull out. I was like, I don't want to sound like, I'm going to be graphic, but it's like, I was like, who doesn't pull out? I mean, I've never been with anyone who just made that mistake before. So I was like, you need to get me the morning after pill. So he shows up with the morning after pill.

I trust him. And I'm like, okay, it works. It's worked before. Why wouldn't it work now? And the crazy part is like after he like left, he like sent me a message. Oh, like, you know, it was so nice. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Next sentence, I kid you not.

They have the messages. take care of our baby. Like, who says that? Like, I was like, yeah, okay? Like, never happening. Yeah, I'm like, I'd faster get an abortion than like. And I was. I was planning on getting an abortion after I found.

What happened was also, I came back. I downloaded Hinge and I started like I matched. I hadn't used Hinge in my ears. So like I like this guy's picture and he was, no, I commented on this guy. picture and he responds with like how you've been and I'm like I've been fine and I was supposed to guy and I'm he's like no do you not remember me and I'm like am I supposed to remember you anyway it turns out that like he had like been seeing my friend a couple of years back and we were

at a party together and we we kissed for like a minute so immediately after in the same window I started seeing him and like who got you pregnant so so at first I was like it could be either, you know? Just, do you know who now? Yes, it's the European guy. It's the European guy. All right. And is he involved?

So what happened was at first I wasn't going to keep it because of the mainly was so scared of like the judgment, the shame. Can I interrupt you for a second? I'm trailing. Okay. No, listen, it's fine. And I'm happy to hear your story. But I just want you to know none of these details of the story have anything to do with,

well, I mean, I'm not saying they don't matter. They matter to you. They're your story. do you have girlfriends you can tell this story to and like gossip with and like again i'm not saying but i'm saying in terms of in terms of like that's what you're looking for i'll get to the point i'll get to the point look i would have i would have wanted i would have wanted him to be involved the minute i said that i'm going to to keep it his tone changed entirely he was like i want this i don't want anything to do with this and he asked me to reconsider he asked me to abort i haven't heard from him since

It's like goes. But you've decided to move forward and keep the baby. I've decided to move forward and keep the baby. So now it's like two things. I already have like this guy that like I'm dealing with, the other guy. Okay. And then there is the guy you're dating? Yeah.

I don't, it's become complicated. Okay. That's all I can say. Well, no doubt. I mean, I imagine that that would complicate an early relationship for sure. Yeah. Okay. In the limited time that we have, okay.

Listen, this is a lot, right? This is a lot that you're dealing with. And nothing I say is going to fix this problem. And you probably have some healing to do. And as we all do, like, you should just, you know, you probably, you are going to require a lot of maintenance, you know, emotion, you know, just like I hope that you invest and take care yourself and take care of your baby that you decided to keep and just take care of yourself, right?

And I encourage you to do that through therapy and community. And I would focus on the people who. do accept you right now. As far as the, you know, the bigger picture challenge that you're facing that you kind of started, you know, like the ostracization or you being excluded from your community and the fear, there's the practical consequences and then there's everything else that you're dealing with, right? The practical consequence is valid, right? Like, will this affect your business? Will you have to change careers? That's a legitimate fear. I understand if you have that. If you have that that's that's real you know and i guess you'll just have to you know i don't have i don't have a

solution to that i don't know what you do i'm guessing you're really talented and i'm guessing just a guess could be way off base here i'm sure it will feel bigger than it is but i'm you know you'll probably be okay does your gut tell you the same thing that at the end of the day while you have some fears that like you'll still be able to do what you do just best guess deep down yeah it'll be an adjustment in terms of the practicals and who's going to take care of the fate, like all these things that I haven't even figured out. But my God tells me that I have enough of a relationship with the people around. Yeah.

And maybe you'll be wrong, but like, you know, practically speaking, when you get out of your head, when you get out of your fears, when you spiral about all the justified things you have to worry about, deep down you think you're going to be okay. So let's hope that's true. And you won't really be able to, you'll find out. out when you find out, right? Then there's the thing that, quite frankly, it sounds like you've been dealing with ever since you were in an early 20-year-old and you chose to leave the religion.

I guess my advice to you. And again, do the self-maintenance, do the self-care, make sure there are people around that can help you both professionally and community. But you've, you know, you've chosen this life. You're, you've, you've, and you've excelled at this life. Overall, you've excelled, right? It hasn't been easy. It hasn't been easy. Overall, you're happy. It's not without its trauma. It's not without its challenges.

You know, you've complicated relationships with your parents and siblings and community. As all people do, yours maybe is a little bit more intense. But like certainly there's a lot of parents out there for a lot of different reasons, like guilt and shame their kids and, you know, don't live up to expectations and yada, yada, yada, yada. I just encourage you to try to focus on the positive and focus on and the things that you, you know, the things that you repeat in your head, just in my short conversation with you, and I know you're kind of just unpacking things, so maybe it's just not quite accurate, but I get the sense that

in your head and with your friends, you spend more time talking about your fears and anxiety and the things that you worry about and less time celebrating all the amazing things you've done on your own, right? And I know, like, listen, that's easier said than done. But like, you're this far into this life that you've chosen. And you being pregnant, I understand that, you know, it's like a wrench. And it's like upside down. I mean, listen, the specific situation that you're in with getting pregnant with a guy overseas, regardless of your faith and your community, that would be a challenge for anyone, right? That would be scary. You still want to find your person. You still want to date. That's going to complicate things in the short run. But it's just don't know how people will, even if I wanted to like date or

find love, even like this guy after everything was said and done, he was like, well, I don't know that I want to enter this equation and this circumstance. So I shouldn't date for the next two years. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not, right? You'll figure it out, right? There's not a specific answer. I don't think if you want to date, you know, like it's, you're going to have to, you know, it's really up to you. You have to recognize that like, you know, in the next two years, you will probably face more judgment from the men that you date who just might not be ready for what you're offering. And that's okay. And it might feel a certain way. But again, I think you're still like, listen, and no doubt it makes a lot of sense. But you know, you've come so far. But I think

you still have to like just really, I feel like whatever judgment and shame that you receive from your community, you still internalize it. And I think you're still trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision or that you're good enough. And I think your community has really obviously had a negative effect on your inability to do that. And the help that I hope that you continue to receive with your community, I would want you to just focus on that because you've made this life for yourself. And it's an overall great life. It's not without its challenges.

But there's also a lot of blessings and a lot of great things. And life, as you know, never works out the way we planned. Yeah. Right? Yeah. and not to diminish what you're going through. But my point is embrace the life you've chosen. And there's going to be always critics and there's always going to be naysayers and

there's always going to people, especially as you excel, the more successful you are, the more haters you will have, whether it's online or your community. So like, you're going to have. That's the funny thing. People have expected me to leave and not be okay. Yeah. And there are some people who hate you for, there's just some people who hate that you didn't, right? and that you know and and and you're going to find that and very ultra conservative religious and you're

going to find that with you know that that that is humanity that's not you know that's you don't need anyone's approval obviously with your parents that's a relationship you'll always have to massage but it sounds like they love you and it sounds like they're always going to accept you and you may feel their sadness and shame but like listen like that's a right of passage for parents and I'm sure yours can feel a little heavier but there's a lot of people listening who weren't who didn't grow up in community, who don't even talk to their parents. Imagine a child who was gay, you know, who wasn't accepted by their parents and their parents weren't even religious, and they don't have any, you know what I'm saying? Like, not to compare. There's just, like, we,

we do have to deal with that. And I want you to just embrace the life that you've chosen for yourself. It's not perfect. It has its hardships, but it sounds like you do, like, and the only way, you know, like, this is, you've chose this, right? Right. But how do I embrace it? in a way that I don't, that I'm not constantly mentally obsessing, but what's the story I'm telling people? What am I telling the guys? That's the part that I, you know, that I'm not going to be able to help you with, certainly maybe not at all.

I'm not a professional. But I think a really good professional. I did recently look up like, like, fine. Like I haven't mentioned. You're talking about rumination. You're talking about obsession. You know, we all, again, we all deal with that, right? And so those are.

It's like a loop in my head. Yeah. And that's. that has nothing, you know, like that would be the help of a really good therapist or psychologist and someone who can work with, you know, helping you not ruminate and help you accept yourself and, you know, maybe do some exercises in work. You know, I don't know, right? But that's, that's where I think a professional could really help you because, again, that's not exclusive to your experience. Right. It doesn't matter what the reason is. A lot of us deal with what you're

dealing with, right? And so, yeah, you need to get out of your head as much as you can. It's totally understandable why you're feeling the way you're. feeling. But it's not going to, it's not going to, you spend a lot of time worrying about things that you don't even, like, it, they will, they will, and I imagine you worried about things when you left the religion and it probably ended up better than you thought it would be. I imagine you worried about, probably enough, yes. Yeah, I imagine you consider the worst case scenario when that was happening. You probably don't even remember just how horrifying. I was younger. Yeah, yeah. I was so reckless. I didn't care. Sure, but I'd no doubt. I,

maybe you don't remember because it was so long ago, I imagine you had a lot of fears. And I imagine you imagine worst case scenarios. Yeah, no, yeah. No, I mean like the first, my 20s were chaos. I worked so hard to, yeah. But you made it through, right? And I think the benefit of the benefit of getting older, right? And you're 36 is that like just like heartbreak.

You get heartbroken the first time. It literally feels like the end of the world. You don't think you're going to get over it because you literally don't know how to get over heartbreak and then you figure it out right you know it doesn't mean and then you get in a relationship again you make it your heartbroken again when that happens it doesn't feel any less painful when it happens it might be more painful because there's a maybe a deeper love because you're a little bit older and more mature but you at least have the knowledge that you can get over this and if you exercise the things that you learn from past breakups that you the amount of time in which you are

heartbroken will probably be less you know it doesn't not a guarantee you know if you choose not to learn from the lessons and remember what you've done to get over things and give yourself the credit for what you've achieved, you may not, right? And I think you have to learn how to change your perspective on all the things that you have accomplished and give yourselves a little bit more credit and remember the person who survived what you've already survived. Again, it's not going to change the judgment and it's not going to make life necessarily on a day-to-day basis easier, but it will help you get through it, right? And it's not going to change the judgment. And it's not going to make life necessarily on a day-to-day basis easier, but it will help you get through it, right? And it'll help you just be in a happier state. And then listen,

we don't know what's going to happen when more people find out when you have this baby. And it may be the worst case scenario. I don't know. But it probably won't be. Like, what am I going to tell the baby eventually about? You tell them the truth. I mean, listen, like there's a lot of kids are being born out of wedlock. A lot of kids don't know, you know, they don't know their parents. Not a perfect situation. But like your child's life will be mostly impacted by you. and what you do and how you raise them and how you love them. It won't be perfect. No childhood is perfect, you know, but how you show up to your child on a day-to-day basis will matter great. I never thought I would have to like, this was like my never in a million thought. I mean,

yet the same one. I never thought I'd get forced, but like that's common. This to me is like, yeah, I mean, I guess right. I'm ruminating. Listen, I, your fears, your fears are justifiable, but they are probably a lot of just fears. I can't predict the future, but you're doing yourself no good in the present by crippling yourself with your fears and acknowledging there's a decent chance that not all of these fears will come true.

And there will be obstacles, but you probably will be able to overcome most of these obstacles. And when you do, you will feel good about it. you feel, there's a party that feels prideful and what you've been able to accomplish. And when you say, oh, my 20s were hectic, you say that now from a place of, they're less hectic and that they've, you survived it. You've, you overcome them. I imagine you have a sense of, when you give yourself the grace and you allow yourself to feel

pride, I bet you feel pride. And I want you to get good at tapping into that mental state, more than the mental state you're tapping into right now, which is a place of anxiety and fear. And again, I'm not going to be able to help you get there, but I think you can get there and there are people who can help you get there. But that would be my two cents. I tend to ruminate and spiral. And then once I pull myself out, I'm like, oh, wait, that was a spiral. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, it's totally understandable. But was this helpful at all? Is this? I mean, I thought you might say something along those lines because I've listened to you long enough.

But I think my biggest, like, tapping in yet, but then it's like, okay, like, what about the dating landscape? Like, yeah, I mean, I can't ask you, no one's going to, but I just don't know how to navigate it now. Well, listen, I can't tell you how to view success and relationships. They really wanted. But you've heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And listen, your situation not perfect. It obviously has a lot of hardships.

But again, if you want to look at the positive versus the negative, you already have one beautiful child. You have chosen to have another child, right? That part of you that wants to be a mom is fulfilled. And maybe you want to have more. But like, you have the luxury that a lot of people in your position don't, which is to, yeah, I know you want it now. But like what you want, I'm sure, is something that will last more than,

do you want something that will last more than wanting something now? I want something that will definitely. But if you had, you know, but like, yes, I know we want it all. And I know we want it all right now. But do you prioritize? Young and beautiful. In the meantime, you can keep doing what you're doing, which is they get your, get your fuck on, you know,

and that you can do for a while now. And you know what? Honestly, if you could do that the next few months and no one needs, no guy needs to fucking know. You're, you know, you're, it's your, you know, like they don't need to, it's hip up, you know. They don't, I'm just simply saying that like, but like we agree that when it comes to your love life, you, you, you prioritize something that lasts over having something right now, correct? Yeah, 100%.

Okay. 100%. All right. So, listen, like, I know it's not perfect right now, but you can choose, you can choose to obsess over the fact that you're pregnant right now and that dating for you might be a little bit more complicated than if you weren't pregnant right now, I understand that. Or you can just like, listen, it's not ideal, but I'm making this choice overall, pros and cons.

I thought about maybe not moving forward to pregnancy. I've chosen to do that, assuming that you still want to make that choice and you are overall happy with that choice. It doesn't do you any good obsessing over the short-term, you know, things that, you know, the things that you're not getting by the result of the choice that you made and the choice that you think overall that you want, right? And yes, it's going to put a wrench in those things, but you still can be 38, 39, 40,

get back out there and date and be maybe in a healthier place. And maybe that will be a better situation for you. I don't know. You know, but like you still have, you still have many, many, many years to find your person. And if it takes you to 44 to find your person, you'll be happy that you waited, I promise. And in the meantime, you'll have a bunch of fun stories with some ex-boyfriends.

My biggest thing is, yeah, like, I'm, like, I'm ruminating. Like, last. I know, yeah, I know. But, and again, either going to deal with it or you're not. I have to say with it. Yeah. You know it's a problem, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, like, last week I heard this episode of the girl, the woman, whatever, who she felt like motherhood was, like, taken from her, in a sense. And I was sitting there listening and I was like, oh, I don't have this issue. Like, you know, my situation is entirely different. But then she's like, just with the most loving partner. I'm like, no one's going to be there to hold the baby. No one's going to like, yeah, my family, my community, my friends, they're all so supportive.

Yeah, but see how quickly you go from recognizing something positing your life relative to someone else? And then how quickly you turn that into the more. Yeah, I compare. And then focusing on the negative, you know. So listen, like all of our lives. And I'm not here to compare what's worse or better or what's harder or, you know, like, we all have our problems. And if you, if you entered a contest of who has it worse, you might crush it. I don't know. Like, but at the end of the day, we all have the stuff we have to deal with. And you have done so much dealing with it.

And you're not giving yourself to credit you deserve. And I would love for you to look into dealing with the rumination that you have to allow you to focus on more. over the positive aspects of your life because at the end of the day, any situation, everything is going to have pros and cons. And you have to allow yourself to focus on the good every once in a while and give yourself a break emotionally because right now you're not doing yourself any favor by ruminating over your fears and consequences, understandable as they are. But if you want a path forward, that would be what I'd recommend. I have to work on it.

Okay. You will. You're going to be okay. give yourself some credit you've come a long way you know you're going to be okay yeah you're going to be okay i promise just hope that in like yeah 10 years from now when i look back this is the thing that i that i that i celebrate that i had a baby on my own it's really entirely up to you it's really it's going to have highs and lows of pros and cons but it's just a matter of perspective uh and you you you've been a survivor you've you've you've dealt with adversity you've dealt with

challenges and as you've said, you're better off, you're overall very happy with the life that you've carved out for yourself. I imagine that's gonna continue because of all the things you do for yourself and your work ethic and your resilience and all those things because outside of your ruminization, you have a lot of things going for you

and you just need to give yourself some goddamn credit for those positive things that you're not doing because you're just obsessively ruminating over all your fears and challenges and your anxiety. Which is again, totally understandable, But like, if you want to change it, you got to do some about it. Working it. Okay.

Keep us posted. Congrats. You're going to be okay. It's just like a lot of things to... I understand. I understand. I don't know where to begin. Ten years from now, then you can worry about analyzing how you feel about your life.

Right now, let it happen. Right. You're going to eventually have to tell your people. So tell them. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I kind of told my rabbi yesterday. How'd that go?

Well, he's like, we should figure out the story that you're going to tell the community. Well, that's a, okay. But he was, no, he was very open-minded. And listen, that's annoying, but like that's the community that they, that's them. You know, that's what they do. And you've left that. But like, that's a them problem. But overall, it sounds like it could have been worse.

He deals with, like, secular, yeah. So, yeah, that's a good start. Yeah. You know? No, they were like, they were like, okay, it's not the most ideal situation. There you go. You know. We'll deal with it.

I thought they were going to be so judgmental. Well, take that, take that energy. And I imagine it's going to be a lot of that. And just do yourself and your baby a favor and get out of your head. But I know that's easier to said the done. And most of us can't do it on our own. So get some people. I could do it.

Get some people. I could do it, but yeah, I can use it somehow. I appreciate you listening to this show. I love that you listen to it. But if you took a break from this show and invested that time, I don't want you to, and I'm sure you don't have to. But I'm just simply saying, I'm just simply saying that if your time is limited and you only have time for a good therapist to help you deal with this, you'll be better off

than listening to this show. I hope you can do both. But like, just find the time and actually do it. and hold yourself accountable. I've been at therapy for 10 years. Maybe you need a new therapist. But also, focus on this. Therapy is more than just going in and talking about your shit.

And I imagine the wrong therapist will just listen to you, tell your stories all goddamn day and let you ruminate. You need to find someone who's going to address this specific problem. You need to find a therapist and say, this is what I do. I at least know enough about myself to know I do this. I'd love your help because it's crippling. and I'd love your help with me dealing with my anxiety. And you need to feel when you leave those therapy sessions that you're actually getting something out of it.

And if you don't, find a different therapist. Right. All right. Okay. Okay. Well, it was helpful. I didn't realize I was like such a ruminator. I figured here and there I talk about, I think about this.

We all are. Yeah. And again, justifiable. It makes a lot of sense. You're going through it a lot. But there is a path forward. And I know I know you're going to be okay. And I want you to,

I want you to get to, I want you to get to the place that I am with you, which is the total comp, I don't have, you know, I, obviously I say that knowing that I don't have to, I don't have the worries that you have, but I know I'm right that you're going to be okay. I want to not only be okay. I want to find my person. That'll happen. My happy ending. That'll happen when it's supposed to happen. It sounds like maybe, who knows, but it probably won't happen as soon as you want it.

And that's, and that's going to be okay. It's the hardest part. If that's your hardest part, then you're good. Because, like, if you listen to this show, I don't care, they don't have to be a part of a, a religion like you are a part of or get pregnant in the situation that, you know, there's a lot of people out there who want their person, they want it now, they don't want to wait two years, three years, five years, and it doesn't matter about their situation.

They may not find it to the right person shows up. And so if that is, if all of this, if that's the thing you're worried about the most, you're good. But you probably hate me for saying that, but you're going to be okay. You're going to find your person. Your relationship life will work itself out. You just need to be a little more patient than you are right now. Okay. And in the short run, I'd love for you to just work on yourself.

Focus on yourself. Take care of yourself. Take care of your baby. The rest will work itself out. But address this actual problem rather than, than worrying about it. I will. All right. Good luck. Congratulations. Thanks, Nick. All right, thanks for the call. Keep us posted. I'm a big fan, just so you know. I've learned so much from just listening to you. This has been a fascinating call, you know, like I really appreciate the call and

check in with us. Give us an update, but like a email update. Or call back in. We'll follow up with you and check in on you, okay? Okay. I appreciate it. All right. I really, appreciate this thanks for the advice all right i appreciate you congratulations all right bye thanks thanks