The Viall Files - E12 Small Towns with Elyse Dehlbom

Episode Date: March 20, 2019

This week, I’m joined by the lovely Elyse Dehlbom who is known for leaving Colton’s season of The Bachelor on her own terms. Before we talk all things Bachelor, we address that polarizing Demi episode. We discuss the concept of “mansplaining” and ask how we can better understand it and how to avoid it. We talk about Elyse’s choice of breakup clothing (wedding dress?) and how to navigate dating people with children. As always, we answer some fan questions and things get…well…steamy.This podcast is all about learning and deepening the conversation. Thanks for coming with me on this journey. Follow Elyse on Instagram: @elysemichelle_mua Get your Natural Habits essential oils: https://nhoils.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're crazy. I'm your host, Nick. We have a wonderful guest today, Elise. Very excited about this. Before we get into learning so much about Elise, I assumed I was going to get some heat from last episode with Demi. I didn't anticipate getting as much heat as I got. And then I got sensitive about it and bummed. So I figured we'd have a quick discussion. I am curious about mansplaining. I got some criticism for mansplaining.

I will say, though, that I left with a fantastic impression of Demi. We talked a little bit before the podcast. I did, full disclosure, ask Demi if it would be okay if I gave her a little bit of a hard time leading into the episode. And to her credit, she was all for it. And so part of that was a little bit of that. I guess people can debate whether that was even necessary to begin with.

I kind of assume, you know, Demi being the lovable, entertaining character that she was, also had her critics when watching the show. I always find it, when people are challenged, an opportunity to rise. I will say, watching it back, to Demi's credit, I thought it was really great how when I was teasing her, she never at once got defensive. Never once. And she, I thought, handled herself great.

But I think it brings an interesting point about mansplaining. I sometimes get sensitive to it. The first time I became aware of mansplaining is when I mentioned last week, Rochelle, that I was on my dear friend's podcast on the HuffPost. And their audience is, you know, it's a feminist podcast. So, you know, they're on, it's a Bachelor recap. So they bring me in to recap the show

and get my take on The Bachelor, which, again, I've done a Bachelor recap. So they bring me in to recap the show and get my take on The Bachelor, which, again, I've done a few times. So it's a podcast format. They're talking to me about it. And Claire and Emma are giving what they think might have happened behind the scenes a lot. And a lot of times I'm like, well, that doesn't happen. No, this is how it happens.

And then their audience is like, well, you're mansplaining. And I'm thinking, well, I don't happen. No, this is how it happens. And then their audience is like, well, you're mansplaining. And I'm thinking, well, I don't want to do that, but how do I, as a guy, explain something, I guess, to, in this situation, a woman, without being mansplaining? I mean, and I guess in that essence, in the podcast, in a conversation, Emma and Claire weren't like,

well, here's my take in a podcast. They didn't ask me every time. But it was more a discussion. So it was like, well, can I tell you the things I do know about? I don't know. And I got really defensive about that when I was on their podcast and I got called out for mansplaining there.

But I definitely got a little bit. So I thought it'd be an interesting conversation to talk a little bit about mansplaining. I mean, listen, this podcast, it's gone really well so far. I'm really thankful for it. And my audience right now is, I think it's like 90% women, which I think is, I mean, I'm flattered and amazed and very grateful that all you women listening are listening to me talk, which is great. I mean, when you think about it in that sense, it's like, why?

But at the same time, I don't want to be mansplaining, but as a host of a show, I'm'm I'm more like trying to figure out how I navigate that um I don't know any thoughts Rochelle put you right on the spot Rochelle I mean Rochelle has a she's she called me out about it and maybe rightfully so it sounds like you've had experience with with being mansplained with men right well I guess I just I think that we have as a man at this time it's important to listen so if we're telling you how something makes us feel instead of saying you're wrong I wasn't doing that maybe it's important to listen i think it's no you're absolutely right um i sometimes get confused about when that's the situation so when we tell you it is a situation then you say no it's not no well when when no well you're talking about like Demi like Demi didn't say that

I mean so like is am I mansplaining because I'm curious like am I mansplaining if I'm having if I'm explaining say something to and then someone else she didn't even know what it was though right

so how could she call it out if she doesn't even know what it is that's a fair point. But after well, you and I guess I attempted portal, I probably shouldn't have done that. Well, I mean, could I if Demi asked what's mansplaining? And I guess I probably don't know. Can you explain mansplaining?

No, seriously. Can I? I guess I mean, I definitely should just not because it's just a bad luck. Right. But right. I don't, I guess, but I mean, it's a serious question. I mean, listen, I, the, the, the goal obviously is this podcast. And, and again, most, mostly women are listening to this podcast. I hope we bring more men and I hope the women listen to this podcast, um, find it insightful. And if they have men in their lives, you know, talking about mansplaining, I hope you invite your guy friends

because you think they can maybe get something from it. I hope to grow that audience. But for the time being, I'm very thankful for the women listening. And I mean, listen, if mansplaining is a real thing and guys should stop doing it, I think as men, we get defensive and get confused. And then it becomes this thing of like discouraged. Like it's, again, I just, I'm only speaking from mine. It's like when I was on Emma and Claire's podcast and they have a great podcast. If you're listening, you should check it out.

But I was really discouraged being like, well, how could I have done that differently? Well, it's obviously not your intention to do that, nor is any man intending to mansplain. So it's like we've said in past podcasts, it's a conversation and it's educating each other. And if we can feel comfortable to tell men how the way they're talking to us is making us feel, then like we were saying like it's all about yeah how can men not get defensive and instead like how can we work together to communicate better well I guess one question like in that podcast if if I get called out for

mansplaining am I by default then mansplaining's, say, in a conversation of, I guess in theory, Emma and Claire bring me in as the expert talking about Bachelor, and then they give their take and I give my counterpoint, and someone says, well, you're mansplaining. And again, in that sense, I guess Claire and Emma very much know what that is. They didn't think so, but someone else, well, plenty of other people did. Am I, to them, mansplaining? I think that's an opportunity to step back and say, oh, what do you mean by that?

That wasn't my intention. What was I doing that made you feel that way? And learn instead of immediately say, no, I wasn't. Sure. I mean, it's a good point. If I had access, I mean, these were like comments and people tweeting at me and I didn't feel like getting in a conversation over Twitter

I mean at least you know you're here like why do you have has this been something I mean I'm assuming this is something all women feel or experience yeah I mean to talk to the Demi point if you guys had a conversation prior that you were going to challenge her,

I feel like it kind of takes him off the hook a little bit. But also, it's a very fine line between mansplaining and someone who happens to be male who has a little bit more life experience. No offense, Nick, but you're a little older than me. Yeah, no. And you've been on the show how many times? It's a running joke. so much that it's a joke so it's a fine line between just the fact that you do have more experience on the show and your

perspectives are wildly different being however old you are versus 23 24 like demi is yeah and she's new to this you brought an interesting pointchelle, before the episode is that even though I asked Demi if it was okay to give her a hard time, her being young, and like you pointed out, and Demi mentioned that she was a fan of me, that even though I asked for her permission, She felt intimidated? She felt,? She felt.

There's a power dynamic. Sure. But that wasn't my intention of like, I wasn't consciously thinking about that. I mean, for me, I struggle with it because, listen, we all know that I can speak my mind. And I do like to play devil's advocate. But I like to do that with people. my mind and I do like to play devil's advocate, but I like to do that with people and I'm not thinking of gender and I'm not thinking of, I mean, I can certainly over-explain and be condescending. I'm well aware of that. Right. And it's certainly something I can work on, but this is not something I can, I don't, you know what I'm saying? I don't like see the gender and go, well, that reminds me, you know, like as a, well,

you're, you know, it's like, I'm not, that reminds me of when people say they're like colorblind. It's like, okay, well, that's just not the reality of the situation. There are men and women. We have different experiences. Sure. So even if you're not aware of it, maybe you need to become aware of it. Fair.

But what about, what if I'm doing it to a guy? Then what is, is it, maybe you need to become aware of it. Fair. But what about, what if I'm doing it to a guy, then what is, is it, I'm. Men have different, it's different life experiences. We have different things that we face. We have different ways society has trained us to act. So it's just a different situation. I don't think you can compare. How can men mansplain less? I mean, I get the, you're right. Men, if, if approached and suggested that we are mansplaining, take a stop, listen, ask questions. How do we prevent ourselves from doing it in the first place? Because I am still a bit confused because it seems like men might not be aware of how we might make someone feel. And maybe the perception of

mansplaining can vary from person to person so that's where i think it's a little like i get anxiety being like i don't want to you know like i i authentically don't um but how do we how do we do it less you know in a sense of and what is the difference between having life experience and perspective and just wanting to help someone out? I guess we could be mansplaining with good intentions. No, I get it. But it's this thing like I'm obviously younger than my dad. If I call my dad and ask him for advice, it's because I asked for it.

And sometimes unsolicited advice can come off as cool I didn't ask okay that's where you run the risk of just a scenario I mean Demi is a fan of yours she said that so it already kind of puts her in a position of I mean so you've met people that you're a fan of I'm sure and you kind of take a step back and you're not maybe going to be as bold or abrasive with how you're feeling because you're wanting to make a good impression that's a great point and at least for me when I meet someone I'm I'm just like I like them like if they're like if they have feedback if they're if they're like, if they have feedback, if they're, if they're like, can I, you know, can I offer you? I'm like, yeah, well, I mean, please, you know, everything you do and say, I think is

amazing. And I want to emulate that. So I, I appreciate that. I mean, again, to your point, like, I mean, I, I mean, also really appreciate Demi and like throughout the week, Demi almost kind of defended me and, you know, she was very sweet of her. And I do want to say again, like she, she handed herself so well. And I think, you know, I think people saw that and gave her a lot of credit for that. But yeah, I mean, it's just, I don't know. It's this, it's this, it's something I think is obviously a hot button issue

and I'd like to get better at it. And I hope men also want to as well, but it, it feels a little confusing. So I guess basically unsolicited advice. I'm going to defend you. No, but like, but it's so unsolicited advice. Just don't ever do it. See, why do you, why do you have to make it so black and white like that? I think you just got to read your room. I don't, I'm, I'm, I'm genuinely not sure. I'm not, I don't know because listening to both of you, you brought up your dad, your dad is right. Of all people. I mean, you know, your parents would be someone who like, they're your parents. So like parents, like parent their kids, but even anything you're adult now. So you even suggested if you go to your dad and ask,

thanks. Sometimes dad, I didn't ask. Oh yeah, he's heard that a couple times. I just went on this show. He's heard it a lot. So I guess I'm just generally confused. I'm not trying to go black and white. I'm asking like, if you didn't ask, then fine. I won't say it.

There's a really good book. I think it's called Men Explain Things to Me. That might be something good to read. Okay. You could do a little book club. There's a really good book. I think it's called Men Explain Things to Me. That might be something good to read. Okay. We could do a little book club. There we go. Have you read it? I haven't read it.

You haven't. Okay. We'll have tea and coffee. Yeah. I'll bring cookies. Maybe I'll read. I don't read a lot of books. Is it on audio?

Probably. And here is the cue for the Audible app. Audible. They're not sponsoring this episode. be but they should be because i'm going to listen to that book i have to defend you a little bit i talked to demi after the podcast and she did not i mean she just had positive things to say she said that you guys you'd want to challenge her and you definitely did but it was from my perspective of knowing Demi, it was nice for her to actually have a voice

where she wasn't in character of Demi from the show. And I guess going in, my intention and goal was, and I said to her, I go, you seem great, and I'm a big fan of you, and I think there's other sides to you. And she's like, there is. And I said, said well I feel like if I challenge you you'll and I you know it'll bring that out you know I'm not saying I'm not trying to make excuses but that was the goal and and again like can I interrupt you yeah

yeah please then I think you just explained the mansplaining situation you got yourself into. By feeling you had to challenge her to get authenticity, then it put you again in a position of wanting her on the defense, which I get because sometimes, I'll be honest, Demi needs to be challenged. But maybe that was the problem in the first place, is not thinking that she'd come in here and be authentic to herself without your help. Fair enough. Well, well done. Hey, the caffeine's kicking in.

We're getting there. Well, I was a little nervous. I was nervous having Demi on just because, you know, I didn't have a rapport with Demi. And she is, you know, that, how does she call it, a firecracker. And up until that point, our guests were a little bit kind of a different ilk than Demi. And I was kind of trying to figure out as I go.

And so maybe I overstepped a little bit. Maybe you assumed. I know. We know what happens when we assume. Learning experience for myself. So anyways, you know, for the nine people who are now listening to this podcast after last week, thanks for sticking with us. And thanks to Demi because now I feel like he has to take it easy on me. Well, I'm not trying, you know, I don't know. I i kind of have like i felt like an older brother with demi

and i guess older brothers can also mansplain it and probably more than ever when they you know i will say i do stand by my um not specific to demi that a lot of people in bachelor world after their first experience um think they have it all figured out and they don't and the list is very long of men and women from that show who had a little bit of fan favoriteness in a big spike early show and made some terrible mistakes and terrible choices, even after getting solicited advice, people with really great opportunities in front of them, you know, really great, like massive opportunities, opportunities to be the leads, opportunities to go on Paradise, you know, and didn't take the advice from people who like, hey, man, like I've made mistakes or

this worked out for me and they didn't. I want to see Demian TV for the next... Forever. Forever. She's great. And so, I don't know. Enough about that. We love you, Demi. I think

this is what this podcast is about, to have these tough conversations and mansplaining is something I think us men clearly need to understand. As a guy, I would just ask the women out there to just help us. I think sometimes, and again, maybe social media is not the, it feels attacking sometimes. Or if you're trying to be the good guy and it's like, well, you're mansplaining, you're immediately on the defensive.

And I mean, maybe that's our problem, I guess. But help us out, you know, we're hopefully most of us are here to listen. Anyways, Elise, what the fuck? Why'd you leave the show I think the better question is why did I do it in a white dress um god um I

well there's a lot of factors but honestly I think everyone saw our one on one date it was a blast but because it was so public there was very little time for private conversation. We had a lot of kids to take care of that day and then a concert. So really dinner was the only time that we really had a chance to talk.

And I knew going into this that Colton, and this isn't about his virginity, it's just we, he's pretty much new to the dating world. I mean, I think he said he had one. Not even pretty much new to the dating world yeah i mean i think he said he had one not even pretty much yeah he had one you know prior girlfriend ish yeah before the and then you know becca and all that but um real life dating experience there was slim to none so i'm 31 cougar um and so i've had long-term relationships and i know what I need from a partner and I just felt like we were two weeks from hometowns and for the few days that were leading up to me leaving I just kept thinking he's a great guy he's so likable I mean he's he's good looking let's be honest beautiful when a question you don't have to raise your hand.

I give you permission to interrupt me, Nick. I'm trying to get more five stars. There was a litany of one-star reviews on iTunes this week, and I'm really sensitive. I want to keep my five-star rating. You don't have to raise your hand. Can you just, while you're listening, just go give us a five-star?

You know what? Rochelle's rolling her eyes at me. No, when you said two weeks, just for those of you listening, two actual weeks, not two. Like because every episode is like four days of filming. Right. So in your mind, you're thinking we're two real weeks away from hometown. Right. Okay.

So just to clarify. Yeah. And I knew because you get, you know, short allotments of time on The Bachelor with the lead, I was not going to have the opportunity to have the answers I needed before introducing him, potentially, if he kept me around, to my family. And quite frankly, there's things I regret about that night. White dress being one of them. But honestly. You looked great. Thank you.

Certainly was an opportunity for the internet. Oh, God, yeah. I'm surprised there's not more memes about it. We're going to break up also. Here's what I would look like in a wedding dress. Oh, it was funny. But, you know, in hindsight, as much as I said I, like, regretted it, that was coming from a place of being in my head and exhaustion,

to be completely honest. Colton and I had a great connection, but it was, in the end, and in hindsight, it was a connection of friendship. And I respected him, and I still do, and I like him a lot, but he and I would not have gone the distance so I need to peace out I I said this when Rachel was on I I give you a lot of credit I mean you easily uh would have stuck around for more weeks uh well thank you you were a shoe in at least till the week before hometowns for for sure. Oh, that's nice of you.

I mean, I think maybe even – I mean, after that, who knows? It's hard to – but I think for sure you would have gotten two or three more episodes. And if – let's not pretend that that wouldn't have been advantageous for you on multiple levels and a little bit more. Oh, 100%. And then have Colton, if he were going to not pick you, break up with you. And then you get the, you know,

the, the groundswell of, Oh, Elise, uh, poor Elise, poor Elise, raspy voice,

the mature one of the group. It's so great. Elise, I love your voice. It's really, it's great. It's like, it's,

it's a natural, like it was at ASMR or whatever. Oh, well there, maybe I found my new calling you really you really should make up tutorials all in whisper yes i really i would oh thanks for pulling up the dress i'm a buyer i gotta say it was in person not very bridal it's actually quite sexual see-through okay but all right like, is that any better? Yeah, I mean, okay. Hey, baby. You know what?

You can't have me, but you would want to. What woman has not wanted to look their best when they break up? I mean, people gave me crap for the updo. It was Thailand. I have naturally curly hair. You have to wear your hair up. It was not an updo. It was just humidity. What's updo is Thailand. I've naturally curly hair. You have to wear your hair up. It was not an updo. It was just humidity. What's up? What updo? Like, because my hair was pinned back.

Is that intended to be sexual? No, no, no, no. Like more formal, but honestly it was just so I didn't go out looking like Annie, orphan Annie. So you're saying as a woman, even if you're saying as a woman even if you're going to break up with the guy and assuming he doesn't want to break up you are still letting him know what he's going to miss it wasn't even that it was more so like I wanted I mean yes of course every girl wants to look her best and it never happens in real life you're like tears are running down your face you're in sweatpants and you're like crying your eyes out which I still did but um quite frankly yeah I wanted to look good it was a very uncomfortable situation I appreciate the honesty I didn't realize y'all saw savage um but a lot of it too is like if you feel good externally then it's like all right now I have the confidence to go in and and do this and do this yeah wow that's a lot of pictures of me um that

was i think that's very honest um tell all you weren't on tell all so this is this is a tell me this is elise's tell all um well i mean we don't you just why weren't you at all there's nothing juicy i was a bridesmaid in my friend's wedding out of the country. And that took priority. I'd made that commitment to her prior to making the commitment to the show. That's great. Elise, truly in it for the right reasons. Nobody is.

I'm just going to put that out there. Well, right. We said this last week. Doesn't make people. It's the right reasons implies that you go on the bachelor bachelorette because you need to find love. It's an opportunity to possibly find love. And there's going to be one out of 30 people that, and in my situation on our season, there was 30 women. That's not the best ratio. So you have to have at least like, okay,

maybe you want to travel. Maybe you just want the experience of being on TV or, you know, the opportunity for, you know, financial opportunities afterwards. And I think that's all incredibly fair. But with me leaving, like you said, maybe I would have stuck around and it could have been, quote unquote, a better opportunity to do so. But if you actually have any decency or think of your life outside the show, I thought I owed him the respect of leaving when I felt I needed to. I think that is great. And I think that is very rare in that world. I mean, most people wouldn't do it.

And just in fairness, I wouldn't fault the people who are thinking, he's not going to pick me, but I might as well just stick around and go to Vietnam. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I missed out on some good trips. I give you a lot of credit for in that moment to, before you thought about the opportunity, you thought about Colton and yourself from a personal aspect. And I don't think that should be lost on the audience and the people

listening to this podcast. Well, yeah. And a lot of people, I feel like watch this with the idea of like, they forget. Yes, there's,

I mean, it didn't end an engagement this season, but normally there's an engagement. And they think that just because this guy is the bachelor or the woman is the bachelorette, you have to fall in love with them. That's like going to a coffee shop and meeting a guy and be like, this is the one person that someone told me I have to fall in love with. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous to think that just because he is the lead that that's your person.

Well, yes. And I'm sure you've felt that there that's the implied staged atmosphere some of it is um the lee the the bachelor bachelor it's put on this pedestal so they're just like you just naturally feel it and some of it is well i guess this is how i'm supposed to you know i'll just go along with it right because i think every season um of the 25 to 30 suitors who show up they're like you know I mean there's always this element of you know I've said it before maybe not in this part when I'm rolling up in the limo the first time I saw Andy I was like holy shit that's Andy Dorfman you know because I had watched her on one Pablo season going through the casting

process and it was, that's her. You know, this is like a cool, right? Did you have a fanboy moment? A little, right? I mean, I don't know how you, how'd you, when you saw Colton, I mean, you watched him on Becca's. Did you, was there at least, I'm not saying you geeked out, but, oh, it's Colton.

Oh, I did geek out. No, a hundred percent. And it wasn't even just like that I had seen him before. It was how surreal, because I found out really late that I was going to be on this show. So it was just that was the first moment that it hit me like, oh, shit, this is actually happening. So I don't even think I got more than a few words out. I was a mess. Yeah. Not so much. Yeah, I don't. I blacked out. I blacked out too.

Why were you a late casting? I think just because they announced him so late prior to our season. It was like what a week and a half before we started filming. And I needed. I honestly didn't think I'd get cast. I mean I was significantly older than him. And I as soon as he was announced I thought oh there's no way. I'd get cast. I mean, I was significantly older than him and as soon as he was announced, I thought, oh, there's no way.

I think it happened. I was a late cast. They're literally putting a roster, they're putting a team together. Think about it like a GM putting a, for the women football fans and the three guys listening to this podcast. Yeah, they're putting a roster together, together you know and every team has different positions and they they play

different roles and they're they're literally doing that um i i could tell they were on the fence about me because when i went through casting like oh we'll let you know in like a week or so and then a week goes by and then two weeks go by and then three weeks go by and there was always like oh we're the application process takes a while and i'm thinking that's it and then and then when you know you know and then i was you know i was i was uh at work you know i was you know at a job and at this point i'm like i need to figure out like you know i can't this is not just me going i i if i go i I have to have some honest conversations with my employer. And I'm not going to have this conversation unless I know it's a real opportunity kind of thing.

So I literally text them and said, hey, listen, I really appreciate the opportunity, but I can't wait any longer, so I'm just going to pass. And then literally 30 seconds later. You're in. They called me up. They're like, oh, no, by the way, we're sending you all the information. We'd love to have you on.

And so, yeah, I think that happens a lot. They're just trying to figure it out. And there's moving pieces all the time. Well, I say, how about we get to know Elise a little bit more on a personal level? And we'll have some conversations. I'm curious about the dating world for you and your two cents. But before we do, let's sell some stuff. Natural Habits essential oils. I sent some of my oils to Elise after the show.

Yeah. They were much needed after coming off of that experience. How great are they, Elise? I'm obsessed with the Rye's oil. She likes the Rye's. It's my favorite release for anxiety, Rochelle. Is Rye's supposed to be sexual? What is it? Hey, that wasn't my season.

Rye's is more of a kind of a waking up essential oil. It's something you would put on in the morning. It's made of peppermint, grapefruit, and orange oil. It gives you mental clarity. It has a nice fresh smell to it. It's vibrant. Which one did I give you, Rochelle? You gave me the anxiety one.

Release. That's my favorite. But you should have gave me protect. Wait, did you get sick a lot? No, against mansplaining i'm kidding i'm kidding nick is getting angry i'm not angry i'm just oh poor net i'm kidding no i really like appreciated the anxiety one what's that one called that's release release yeah i keep it in my. Release, yeah. I keep it in my car. I keep it in my car and then I just, you know,

put it on my wrist before I go in somewhere because as you can tell. Does it help? Yeah, sometimes I get riled up. Rochelle's and I's relationship is tension and release. Is there an oil for that? Yeah, it and release. Is there an oil for that? Yeah, it's release. When Michelle and I hang out, we're both just lathering ourselves with essential oils

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It's to everybody. So give us a try. I think you'll really enjoy it. I've been loving them. Great. Thank you. You're welcome. Moving on. So I thought it would be kind of fun.

We'll get to know Elise a little bit more. Dating. We talk a lot about dating stuff. You broke up with Colton before he broke up with you right which is not normal in that world this season it was

it worked out for Colton nice gram I like that picture in the middle nicely curated Instagram well I appreciate that, I guess. It's great. Do you have a particular filter you use?

No, I don't. That's my favorite video, though. Would you tell me offline if you do? Because maybe I want to get some of that. I really don't use a filter. Anyways, listen anyways the dating world I get a lot of questions things aren't going well

what do you think in the dating world is there advantage to cutting loose and being the dumper versus the dumpy saving face. Do women think about that in a stage of asserting power?

Does that make sense? What's your thoughts on that? In the bachelor world, no, it doesn't give you any good things. We're done talking about fashion world we're talking in real life um i actually don't enjoy dumping people because i don't know if you want to call it like empath or whatever but i just feel unbelievably terrible um especially when you're kind of blindsiding someone but i think as you get older it's it doesn't matter it's like like if it's not working, it's not working. And I just don't want to waste time.

When you were younger, was that always the same? No, I would stay in relationships until there was no pause. I used to tell my dad this all the time. Like, I'm only going to leave when I can say that I've tried absolutely everything and I think in marriage that's 100% what you should do but in dating it's not really necessary it's if it's not working it's not working and that's okay but I unfortunately put myself in a lot of situations that I didn't think I could leave easily. How so? Dating men that had kids and getting attached to the kids and knowing that it would upset and uproot their life. I stayed for the kids even though they weren't mine. How old were you during these relationships? I was young. I think my first relationship with a guy that had children, I was 23.

And he was, as I said, I usually date older men. He was significantly older than I was. Can we share? 13 years. 36? Yeah. That's Nick's normal age difference. What are you trying to say, Rasha?

That's not true. I wouldn't say normal. I would say it's like 10%. I have to question. 30%. What do you have in common with a 23-year-old? Because I, like looking back on our relationship, I'm like, why did he, what are we having in common? I don't have a ton in common.

And I don't, I mean, I joke about it a lot. What are we having in common? I don't have a ton in common. And I don't, I mean, I joke about it a lot. And I don't, in my dating life, I'm not actively looking for younger women. It's easy sometimes. Like, I meet a lot of, especially in LA, a lot of younger women are single. And if I go out, I'll meet someone and I'll be like, be 28. Be older.

And it's like, hi, I'm 23. And also out here, it's hard to tell. I'll be like, for a million dollars, I couldn't get within two years of your age. How old are you? I don't know. When I meet a younger woman, I'm like, bummer. But also if I'm attracted and it's woman, I'm a bummer, but I also, if I'm attracted and it's like, I'm free on a Tuesday, it's like, yeah, I guess let's. You'll be the

Tuesday date, but not the Sunday morning date. Listen, I, right or wrong, I guess I, I, I, I, I don't lie to myself about, um, if I were to meet a younger person, let's say, like, I guess for me, under 25, I kind of think to myself, the chances of this being someone who I could grow into a relationship is slim to none. Right. So if I go out with you, like, and I'm pretty upfront about that with those people. Like, I don't want to lead them on. And if there's a physical relationship, I just like, hey, like, here are my, like, I don't. about that with those people. I don't want to lead them on. And if there's a physical relationship, I just like, hey, here are my – It is what it is, yeah. And sometimes it gets – but I have a lot of reluctance about exploring a real relationship with younger women for that reason.

I don't think – it's not that I don't have – I mean, I said this last week. I find myself being more condescending and mansplaining more. I mean, I even sense that, right? I don't like, I want a partner that can womansplain to me. You know, like I do. I seek that out and where I want someone who can share their perspective and I can go, well, that's really interesting. Thank you for teaching me that.

And it's harder to do when you date someone significantly younger. Well, yeah, there's a difference in life experience. Yeah. But back to you. So, I mean, I don't even like talking about this stuff. You look so uncomfortable right now. I'm just thinking of like all the people like I'm talking or listening. We need to get you like a safety blanket. I'm talking or listening. Like a safety blanket.

Stop talking like a US. I don't know. Anyways. So you dated older men. And so you think that was a mistake. I mean, that's significant. No. For me, I know.

I think you're always dating someone of, that's a reflection of how you feel about yourself always. Interesting point. And so I was choosing people and this is not to bad mouth exes, but I was choosing people that were a reflection of how I was feeling about myself at the time. How so? I think at like early twenties, I just was lost. Like Like I think a lot of people are at that age of like, what am I going to do with career? I'm not where you have these expectations of I'm going to be

this when I turn this age. And when you fall short of that, it can be, you know, a little humbling. And then I was choosing to pick people that represented how I was feeling about myself, which was kind of less than. So I wasn't in the best relationships. But I think at the time of dating the older guy with kids, that was when my sister got sick. And I was so desperate for like family ties. I was brought up in Alaska and had moved away after high school. And I loved the sense of family it gave me. And so I don't think that I regret it at all.

I mean, his kids are incredible. And I still say hi every once in a while. But was he always the best partner? Absolutely not. So you being family oriented and then moving away from home, you almost kind of projected that onto your selection process.

It's interesting. I mean, I think that happens a lot too, right? Especially younger people. We often do things and we're not doing it for the reasons we think we're doing it. Yeah. I mean, they say hindsight's 20-20 and it certainly is. But I think when, especially when my sister got sick, you become so desperate for a comfortable, safe space because everything in

your life becomes so topsy-turvy. And for me, it was, I was then at 23 in the role of being a step-mom. I had obligations to the kids. I had obligations to him as a partner and to my business at the time. So it gave me structure in what felt like a very disorganized time in my life. I assume there's a lot of people listening who might relate to your experience. What were some things that you wish you would have done differently, especially at the time when you started feeling like this isn't right for me, but you felt the attachment to the kids? Absolutely. I don't think there's an easy way of, of removing yourself from that. But I think that earlier you can do it if it's truly like line in the sand, this is not the right relationship for me.

Sticking it out for the kids is really worse in my opinion, because you're just adding more time and more attachment. And I didn't realize that at the time I thought, okay, I'll just try my best to make this work so that we're not disrupting their day-to-day life I mean at that point I've been in their lives for off and on for three plus years um but at the end is it really good for these kids to see I mean I'm not their parent but whether you're married or not um these people in turmoil all the time, or would they be happier seeing their dad single and in a better place than when we were in our relationship?

Yeah. Those are great. That's great. I don't know. That's great. Well, kids pick up on stuff. I think we don't give them enough credit. Totally.

It's like, oh, if we don't argue in front of them, then they'll think everything's fine. And they know. Do you think, and I'm just thinking out loud here, because I think that happens a lot. Do you think, was there any part of that, like you were afraid of moving on as well? And maybe like using the kids as a. A crutch for that or an excuse. Yeah. Cause like, I mean, I don't know, regardless.

And for me, when I've dated people and they didn't have kids, so there wasn't that tie in, but even if you're the dumper, you know, if you make that choice, that fear of being alone or it just doesn't feel right, but am I being too picky, or will I regret this choice, et cetera, et cetera. And then you think, oh, well, I got to be here for the kids. Was there a part of that too, or not? I mean, to a certain degree, there was a lot. I mean, when you spend that much time with somebody, obviously then your friends are intertwined. And at the time I was living in Fargo, North Dakota, it was a smaller community.

How did you end up in Fargo, North Dakota? That's another podcast another day. Could we get the cliff notes? I mean, I would love to have you back, but I'm just, I don't feel like waiting. Followed a high school boyfriend to Fargo and then that really didn't work out. And then I moved to Washington, D.C. and when my sister got sick, I moved boyfriend to Fargo, and then that really didn't work out. And then I moved to Washington, D.C., and when my sister got sick, I moved back to Fargo.

So how long you lived in Fargo for? First time I was there for three years, and then when I went back, I was there for four. And your sister lived there? No, my sister was in Alaska, but I had—basically, when she got sick, I was the only child that wasn't married or in the military. And going back to Fargo, I had a place to stay that would allow me to leave when necessary to go home or go wherever she was being treated at. Gotcha. It was supposed to be temporary and then I fell in love. Whoops.

With another guy? No, no, no. The guy that I was with for a long time. I went there with the intentions of only being there like two or three months. And then. And he had the kids. Yeah. And then you broke up.

You left Fargo for good. Yes. To Washington, D.C. To Arizona. Where did Washington. Did you say something about Washington? Fargo, D.C. Back Arizona. Did you say something about Washington? Fargo, D.C., back to Fargo. Fell in love.

That relationship ended and then I went to Arizona. So you moved to Fargo the first time for a boy? Yep. Different boy? Yeah, high school boyfriend. High school boyfriend. Two guys in Fargo making Elise stay. I don't know.

Are they handsome in Fargo? We were a high school sweetheart, so he moved down there to play football, and I followed. What about the other guy? I don't want to say too much. It's a small community. Fair enough. I'm just going to try to give him some level of privacy.

No, I respect that. It's totally cool. And now you are in Arizona. Yeah. And you are a hairstylist? No, I don't do hair. I do makeup and then head educator for the makeup school down there. Okay.

Very cool. Do you like it? Love it. Absolutely love it. Any other personal things you want to talk about before I see more dating stuff? I really kind of did this transition of people didn't really get to know Elise. You know? No, I left.

You left them wanting more. I hung out with kids and I danced awkwardly and then I peaced out. What do you mind talking about your sister? What was she sick with? Yeah, she got pregnant with her second child and just was feeling off. And she was a labor and delivery nurse, so she had a pretty fair understanding of how pregnancy goes. So she started getting tested for some things,

found out she had an insanely rare neuroendocrine tumor that was in her pancreas. And because of its rarity, they just didn't know how to treat it. And then when you add the pregnancy to it, it was, you know, very difficult. So thankfully, she was able to bring my niece Drew into the world, but she unfortunately passed a few months later. Was that a choice that she was stuck with or no and you know i unfortunately when i talked about it on the show i was really discouraged to hear people yeah actually being very negative um yeah i remember seeing some you know i mean that like i don't want to get into that. No, no, no, no.

But we kind of all know what that is. And certainly I have certainly no opinion on that. Do not mansplain. But it's clearly a hot-button issue. Yeah. And yet I guess I just, you know, thanks for bringing it up, Rochelle, because I wanted to ask is what was like, I'm curious, did she have a child? Yeah, she wasn't, you know, and when I talked about it then or even talking about it now, I don't want it to come off as like she was like this martyr for her child. I think every mother in a certain way is, of course, to be a mom is just biologically putting a child's needs before her own.

But I don't think I can truthfully answer that question. Because of the rarity of her cancer, the doctors didn't even know what to do. So she had cancer. Yeah. So whether she had been pregnant or not, it still would have been a coin toss. Okay. she had been pregnant or not, it still would have been a coin toss. So because of that, her priority then fully became,

let's get this baby as close to term as possible. I think that sheds at least a lot more clarity on the situation. Regardless, I don't think people should really have opinions they share on the internet about that. No, that was a tough day. Now, hopefully, you understand a little bit better. It does blow my mind sometimes. I mean, your feedback is welcome on my mansplaining. But maybe not on death.

Maybe not on Alisa's sister's death. Interesting. Well, I mean, regardless, obviously you're, uh, your sister, uh, a courageous person. Oh, I mean, the stuff she went through just physically, um, she deserves a lot of credit. So yeah. Five stars for her. Five stars for her. Um, back to the old, uh, dating discussion.

How is, uh, you're, you've mentioned a few times you're 31 and i think we touched upon i don't think i have to mention it you just in general did i mention no we just mentioned it a lot i thought you were 27 an hour ago you know thank you and uh we miss our advertising opportunity again yeah can. Can we get some Botox sponsorships, guys, now? You touched on a little bit. How is, you know, and again, last week we talked a little bit about age and perspective. So someone who's a 31-year-, um, what is it like different? Do you think you are more selective? Uh, do you think, yeah, do you, well, that's one question at a time.

Do you think you're more selective? He's learning folks. Um, absolutely. In what way? You know, I don't want to say like I date with like this checklist because that's kind of unreasonable besides like deal breakers, obviously. Sure. Then I'm out. But I think when you're young, you have still this idealized image of like what romance and relationships look like and not the experience of what you need to get through the tough shit with your partner and what you need in a partner, whether it's love languages

or being a good listener, whatever the case is. You just look, when you're young, at this person like, you are my everything. And when you get a little older, it's like, no, I'm good on my own. Do you compliment my life? Could we be a good team? And if not, let's be friends. I always felt like we checklist younger than older

in a sense that we you know it's just like when you're younger you don't think so no i feel like this the idea of like well i want to well for me a woman who's this or that and this and maybe like you know when i was younger i was raised very cath Catholic or she's Catholic or she has these points of views and she looks, she went to college and she doesn't have tattoos and she doesn't smoke. And, you know, all these little kind of insignificant things that when you're younger, you imagine. And then when you get older, you deal with some shit and whatever. And you're thinking to yourself, I don't care about any of that. I just want to meet someone that. Well, maybe the list changed from the superficial to the more like actual, this is what I need from a partner. Because I think you all have that depending on how you grew up. My parents are

high school sweethearts. So I had this very honest, but idealistic look at what love should be. And then wanted to replicate that and go I want a guy you know just like my dad I have an incredible father so it was like must do this must do this but I don't need to marry my dad I mean not to get all Freudian on you but do we feel like a lot of people do I mean like the memes of Cassie's dad and Colton are kind of funny. They both are just like all American looking guys. But I think your list changes to a better understanding of what you need, which comes through just life experience.

How's the dating world in Arizona? Piss poor. But do people always... Think of it as a little LA with less opportunities? Is there a place that, I mean, cause I mean, people always complain about their respective city that of the, of the dating. I'd love to meet the place where someone you're like, Oh, I live in, I don't know. Where's that? Sure. But Chicago's like a major city, so a lot of people,

and people complain there. Like, I want to meet the place where everyone's like... Well, if you're a woman, move to Alaska. Lafayette, you know, Lafayette, Indiana. And I got to tell you, man, I moved there,

and just an abundance of options. Like, I can't help myself. I've met five potential wives. And then like, you know, like is that, no one, you know what I'm saying? You can say that if you're a female, you can move to Alaska. Cause I think the ratio is like one female with every five males. So it's like. Are you serious?

Yeah. I think it's like your own version of the bachelor. Are the men their housebroken though? No comment. What do you mean housebroken? I don't. If you like to fish. Explain it to me, Elise.

Nice spin on that. Is there a woman explaining? Is that a term or are we not? No, there's no such thing. But I would like you to explain it to me. What's house broken? Maybe you should take this one. After I just like bashed on my own.

No, they're just like wild men who are, right? They're crazy. Yeah, it's hunting, fishing. They're crazy. I had a group of Alaskan guy friends in college and, oh. Yeah. I mean. Tell us how you really feel.

I personally, I would think if I moved back home, it would be hard for me to find someone that would fit my lifestyle because I don't want to go deer hunting. So there's a bunch of single women and then a bunch of guys who are more into fishing than women. Possibly. Possibly. Wow. Should I go to. Should I visit Alaska? I don't think you'd fare well.

I don't have much faith in you. Not from a dating standpoint. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Just in general? Do you think I would... I think you could be humbled very quickly. I don't hunt or fish. I'm humblish.

All right, if my dad watches this, dad, you can take Nick fishing. Is that all there is to do? No, but that's the majority of it. I mean, I don't want to sound like it's negative. I literally grew up in probably one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life. But it doesn't fit my lifestyle. What are women in Alaska looking for? Someone to keep them warm in the winter.

That sounds fun. There you go. Maybe you would like it. Why are there so many women and not men? Do they dive fishing and hunting? No, no, no. I think you're taking it wrong there's more men than women oh okay so far as like for me as a female i would have okay five men to

my one that makes that was kind of yeah that seemed weird i was like how are all these women showing up they're going crab fishing by the day i've heard that about also denver the joke is it's called menver there's so many It's like the ratio's way off. Is there a city where there's more women? So all the women out there, you should move to Denver. Where's my next move? Ben and Colton

and Blake. Chase was from Denver. There seemed to be finding a lot of handsome guys from Denver. All right. Well, maybe that's the next move. All the ladies out there. I just got away from winter though.

So I think I'm going to stay put for a while. And it's got sale. Yeah, we don't have much winter. But the summers. Brutal. But then you go home to Alaska. Do you go home every year? No, but I'm trying to.

Because you miss your family? Because I miss my family and I don't want to die of heat stroke. You have a nephew? Well, her husband is now remarried so now there's five nieces and nephews. Five nieces and

nephews? How many siblings do you have? One that's past two living. Where do you fall in line? I past two living are you where do you fall in line i'm the baby you're the baby are you the are you the most liked no favorite no are you the i like to think i am are you the a little bit i mean my it's kind of a weird dynamic my brother was actually adopted when he was 12 so he's the youngest to the family but the oldest sibling, if that makes any sense. So it's an interesting dynamic. Oh, that's interesting.

It threw off the birth order. Stole my attention. Was he like a foster child first and then they adopted him? No, my grandparents were his foster parents. And so I think I was five at the time. So I just thought he was my Christmas gift. I'd asked for a brother and I got one. That's, that's wild. So your family is really interesting, doing a lot of good in the world. Are you guys pretty close? Yes. Would you adopt? Absolutely. You would. Yeah, I think coming from a family that adopted a preteen,

which is probably like the hardest situation because, you know, adopting a baby, you kind of get to have those fundamental years. But he's my brother. Like there's no biological or otherwise. Like that is my brother. So for me, if I got to a point in my life where maybe it wasn't possible for me or it just seemed like the right choice for my lifestyle, absolutely adopt. And I think especially not only having an adopted brother, but like I said, being in a

relationship with someone who has kids previously and knowing how much I cared for those kids as if they were my own, it doesn't really matter to me biological or otherwise. I might have a skewed view on that. Now that you have dated men with kids, obviously I'm assuming you're still open to it, but would you prefer not to? Yeah. You're putting me on the hot seat with this one.

I am. Not like Demi. No, I think that it's, yes, I'm open to it, but I know the risks that get involved with not only growing attached to the children, but having to potentially walk away if it's not the right relationship. So I don't want to use the word like burden by any means, because it's not, but it's an added responsibility and added intensity to the relationship off the bat. Yeah, I've only dated one person with a child and it didn't, you know, it was brief, but it was enough that I got to know their child.

And it was new for me, and it was like an interesting element. How old were you? It wasn't too long ago. And so it was just another layer that I had to consider. And it wasn't a negative thing by any means, but it just was something like, how close do I get and how soon, how quickly? Because, again, we only dated briefly. And so clearly we weren't sure about how long we would date for.

Right. And obviously not long. And that was, you know, for me, it was more like, okay, I'll just take her lead. You know, if she wants to introduce me to her child, which is I think the right thing to do. But even then I was, I was very self-conscious about it. I had never done it before. And so it was just, just new to me. And so do you think the parents always right in that case it doesn't matter if they're right there's a parent no i get that i mean it's not your but do you think do you ever felt like well you're like i don't know if i'm ready to meet your kids but they're like no it's

fine and then you do um you know yes i've been in that situation where I was like, okay, we've been dating for like a really short amount of time. Like I'm talking like a month. Sure. That's what I mean. And but it was a very unique situation where his daughter had some disabilities. He's like, I need to give you an idea of what a day in my life is. And so it made sense from that point. That makes sense.

Of this is potentially, if we're going to get serious, a role that I would expect you to fill or be a partner to, I should say, not fill. But, you know, a month in a normal relationship and meeting someone's children would feel early, and it did at the time. But in that scenario, it made sense. I think it's just dependent on the situation.

Well, I guess what I'm getting at is I think the obvious is like, well, as the parent, it's like their call, certainly when it's okay to introduce you to your kids, but is it okay for the person on the other end who doesn't have the kids to not be ready? Absolutely. I don't think it's, well, I want't think that's why I want to meet your kids. I want to meet your kids.

Because I think sometimes that the kids almost get, not say they use intentionally, but as a way to validate the relationship. So if you're the one who doesn't have the kids and they do, and you, maybe you're feeling a little anxious about the relationship, insisting on meeting their kids because you're trying to see if, if they're willing to introduce you you because that might mean they feel it for you. Or vice versa. I think the parent could even do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Where it's like, this is way too soon. And I think you have to at least have a clear understanding of where your relationship is without the kids before you even think about introducing yourself unless it's in like a group dynamic or something like that but yeah totally so it's it's we we agree that it's okay for the non-parent to to put a pause on it if they don't think they're ready but they shouldn't insist on that's incredibly respectful of anything it's a tough conversation um because you know no one wants to be accused of uh not wanting to meet their kid using their kids or you know it's just well i'm not ready and it's like well when are you going

to be ready or is it because how do you feel about it yeah it's a uh it's an interesting you know we get a lot of questions about would you do guys want to date you know I get it we have more women listeners thank you by the way and yeah it's a would you do it again

sure I wouldn't yeah it's my answer always is it's not a deal breaker by any means but I'm not going to sit there kind of like were you and pretend that it's nothing. It's certainly something, and it's something you have to consider. It's a variable that I just kind of want to see what the relationship is. There's variables of, well, what's the relationship with the father? How is he? Is he present? Is he not present? Because you're's the relationship with the father? How is he?

Is he present? Is he not present? Because you're in a relationship with them too. It sounds unfortunate, but that's something you have to deal with. It doesn't sound romantic, but if I'm early in the relationship and I'm getting to know this girl and she seems pretty cool, and she seems like I might want to, all things being equal, I want to date her. And then she seems like a nice kid. And all of a sudden, like, she starts just talking about like this constant drama with the father.

You know, that's something we have to consider. It's the hesitation, yeah. You know, if you're, in your shoes, if it was the baby mama drama where it's like she doesn't want her, the new woman, to be involved in their kid's life. I mean, that's. It's tough. That can sometimes feel like a, it's a very powerless battle to be the person

not with the kids because, well, what's the right thing? I don't really have a say in this. I'm not the kid's parent. The only thing we seem to agree on in terms of what right we have is the right to say I might not be ready. But once you're involved in it, then you're involved, but you still are involved with really no rights or say in the matter. I don't think there's any like set rules to how that looks.

And I know I have girlfriends that when I have been in relationships with men that they've said, with children they've said, it's not for them. And when I press them on it, it was always, I'm not ready to play second fiddle. And I think that that's okay because you have to get into that relationship knowing you will never be a first priority. You might be second or third third however many kids there are but you will never

be the number one priority and I think you mean as a spouse correct yeah well maybe a different if it was marriage but if you get in a relationship with someone that has children it's not your place to think you're going to come first. Their schedule is going to be different and all those things. They can't make the same sacrifices with their time. What do you mean by, I mean, I get, I totally get what you mean, but does that matter? I mean, does that matter? Like, I guess I'm thinking in my head, you know, like the idea of being first, like I was ranking it.

Like, again, I have a very limited experience in that. But of course, the thought of, well, do you love me like your kid? Or am I more of a priority? Of course not. And so it just wasn't a thing. It had nothing to do with where I ranked. It was more about how is our, it was just about the relationship. I mean, I think you bring up an interesting point.

I do think people say that. The conscious of, I think you bring up an interesting point. I do think people say that, the conscious of, like, I want to be your number one priority. It's like, I mean, don't you just want to feel loved? Yeah, I think a better way maybe, I mean, that's how it was verbalized, but maybe a better way to look at it is if their love language, per se, I mean,

I hate to keep going back to that, is quality time, you are 100% going to get less of that in that relationship because their priority, as it should be, is with their main responsibility, which is their children. So that might not work for someone that values having a lot of time. For me, that is not my love language. So I'm like, okay, bye.

What is your love language? Words of affirmation, 100%. And physical touch, probably. Interesting. Quality time, no. I grew up in a household, though, that it was represented. My dad worked two weeks on, two weeks off. And the thought of missing someone works for me.

No, I... My parents say that's... I think there's a lot of... How they have a great marriage. No, I think there's definitely a lot of value in that. If you are... I guess if that's not your love language and you... I think there's a level of maturity that comes with, with it of being okay. You know, I got asked a question on

questions with Nick. It's like, what's I'm moving in with my boyfriend. What's one bit of advice you have? And that one advice was develop hobbies that don't include each other. Cause I mean, when you're, when I, at least when I did, and I see a lot of my friends or younger people who do it, they feel like, well, we live together, so we should do everything together. And wait, you don't want to watch Real Housewives with me? Well, why not?

Or you don't want to watch football with me? Well, why not? It's like, that's okay. It's actually, in fact, beneficial because too much time with anyone you just gets annoyed well it gets stagnant I guess and who wants that in a relationship I'll say in my when I lived with the guy that I was with I had designated days that I would stay in the guest room and have like a girl's night to myself where it was nothing with the kids it was like like, I'm shutting the door. I'm going to put on a face mask.

I'm going to like wax my legs. I'm going to do all the stuff that you really don't want to do in front of your partner that women sometimes enjoy. And that was, it worked for us. Have you always been that way or something that you developed with age? No, I think there's, I'm a social introvert, if that makes any sense. I enjoy being social, but I very much recharge when I'm alone. I like my company of myself.

She's dropped a few phrases that I really quite like. What was the other one you said that we all went, ooh? I don't know. Go back and listen. But thanks. I'm going to go back and listen. It was a thoughtful piece of advice. I don't know if it was advice, but just a...

A woman-splaining? Too soon? No, I don't care. Speaking of advice. I like women who explain things to me. Do we have a cool segue thing yet why can't we get it is it so far

hard to find a jingle I want to get a jingle at least for like question time with Nick and guest co-host should it just be that may I give you a piece of advice

you should not sing it I that was kind of the no would it I can't You should not sing it. That was kind of the, no? I can't. I think we got it. I think we'll just use that, honestly.

Well, I mean, Elise doesn't think so. Well, are you up for sharing some of your wisdom with people? Oh, boy. Sure. Hello. I'm Nick. This is Elise. Hi. of your wisdom with uh oh boy sure people i am i'm nick this is elise hi how are you good what's your name my name is nicky hi nicky oh that's easy remember uh all right well what is your story and then your question all right um i can't go through this without being a little bit savage so i apologize ahead of time by all means uh story is that i was best friends with this guy for about two years maybe a little more i mean we

were spending four or five sometimes six nights a week together um platonically just kind of hanging out type thing and all of a sudden one day there was another guy at my house i don't know if it was jealousy on his end or what but he just when the guy left the room he just kissed me like just turned around just kissed me good for him so that kind of threw me off a bit did you like that um um i was confused by it to tell you the truth because i thought we were platonic i had no idea that he was into me at all uh whereas he thought that we were dating when i I texted him later that night, I said, let's talk about the elephant in the room. What happened here? Why did you kiss me? He said, well, you know, you said you like to take things slow, but this is a little ridiculous.

This is like several months in. And so I'm like, oh, okay. Well, I didn't realize that, you know, it was like that. So we went, I'd say, three, four, maybe even five months in to where we were just going at it like everything but sex. I mean, and it was intense. It was the most intense physical connection I'd had with any other guy except for one other. And I mean, it was just fantastic. So for one, I'm not sure why. I love your enthusiasm. I feel like this guy, whoever he is, is going to watch this and be so pleased with himself.

No, just wait. Well, he's an awesome guy. I mean, I adore this guy. We're not currently together, but we'll end up probably back together, maybe. We'll see after this podcast. It took him so long to make the next move though like he did i started feeling bad about myself i'm like is he not attracted to me that he

doesn't want to go all the way what's going on so when it finally did happen it was just terrible it was the worst the sex oh no the sex was horrible what was terrible about it? Can we get specifics? Yeah.

I'm very excited. Basically, there was zero connection. I had more connection with my barista this morning that I got my coffee from. Wait, wait. I'm confused. Wait. How does it go from the best ever to nothing? Yeah.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding. Friends first or whatever. He makes a move. It's kind of hot, but you're confused. And then for the next couple months, you're messing around and going to all the bases except for home. And there's kissing, you know, all the things that come with. And that was all great. That was phenomenal.

That was fantastic. Like, it kept me wanting more and more and more and i was into it i'm like yeah let's do this he just was kind of like pushing back like you know i don't know you know it might ruin our friendship or whatever and then there's intercourse and then it's no connect so i because i get bad sex but i don't get no connect how would you go from being so connected to not being connected at all? Just because he put the P and the V. That is my question.

It was kind of just like, if you were trying to describe to an alien, how humans make babies, that was like, it was just like basic, like that, like just nothing. So the mechanics were off.

So is Jess a physical thing that was off? Yes. It was definitely. How was definitely how was the i mean like equipment works everything's yeah i'm assuming everything is good i mean he didn't seem to have an issue um it was substantially it was there you could find it i'm just i don't try to Thank you for asking the question. We're trying to suss this out. No, I'm an open book and I am very open about talking about it. We really appreciate this about you.

Thank you. So do our listeners at home, I feel like. Alright, so he just like, what was he when it was in? what was he doing? What was he doing? Uh, just basically just thrusting away. That was it. Like nothing else. Like just hands around the back, thrusting away. That was it.

Did he like close his eyes and start like sweating and making weird faces or something? Yeah, barely a little bit. I am questioning when, when you guys, okay, go backtracking to the, letting him making weird faces or something? Yeah, barely a little bit. I have a question. When you guys, okay, go backtracking to the foreplay leading up to it. Uh-huh. What was he doing? Why was that great?

That's just the intensity. Like, he knew he was good with his hands. I'll just say he was good with his hands. No, I love that you said that. That's a great thing. I think men should take pride specifically in being good with their hands. And I don't mean like mean third base. I mean like first base.

Like hand placement is a big deal. And you should pay attention to your partner. So that's interesting that he was good at that but yeah can i explain i'm gonna see if i'm guessing this right the intimacy was good then when it came to sex it was complete the mission quick done jackhammer sex it's like he forgot about all the things that got him yeah. Yeah. He forgot to round the bases. That's teachable. Yeah. So what'd you do after that? Right. What, what, after the bad sex, what happened? Well, I am, like I said, I'm very open. I had great dialogue with him. I told him, Hey, you know, this is really off. I don't know if it was because of our first time. I don't know

if you were expecting more, if it was me, just tell me, you know, I'm kind of blunt. You know, sometimes I'm kind of alpha to begin with. Did he think it was good? Great question. He didn't really say. He said, yeah, it was a little awkward. You know, we weren't off, but it was, you know, it wasn't bad, you know, type thing.

And I was kind of like, well, yeah, it was kind of bad. He just closed his eyes and went for home. You know, he just, he was trying to steal like, well, yeah, it was kind of bad. He just closed his eyes and went for home. You know, he just, yeah. He was trying to steal a home. Just sliding in. I got to knock over the catcher if I have to. So, but you brought it up and he just was kind of. After that it took, I would have been ready to do it that same day that we talked about it,

but it took him probably three months after that to go that far again. Like, I was taking it personally. I'm like, am I unattractive? Did he not like what he saw? What's going on? So then you have the bad sex. You mention it to him. Are you still messing around but not having sex? Or there's no physical?

Oh, yeah. Okay, that kind of confuses me. Because it would make sense if his pride was hurt and he took a step back. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a certain sense of, I would hope, that your partner wants to please you. And if he finds out he doesn't, it's not the most comfortable thing to hear, I would assume. Not to toot my own horn, but I... Nick has never heard this before. No, no, no.

That's not what I'm going to say. I'm saying that I, I am surprised when I hear from my women friends, how many men don't seem to be as interested in pleasuring a woman as much as they are in getting off. Then I just, you know, we talked about this with my episode with Katie, that surprises me. I do care about that. I am surprised that some men, it doesn't seem to be their top priority. Everyone's had awkward sex, you know, from time to time, I think, you know, I think sometimes the buildup can play a role in an awkward situation. If there's a lot of anticipation and that build up and you're both really excited, especially I think as men, uh, we can get in our heads because

you're like, I finally made it, you know? Like, uh, so I think that can sometimes lead to awkwardness. What I am thrown off by is like this wild inconsistency because you, as you say, you're an open book, you clearly are easy to communicate with, even if you are, as you say, the alpha or maybe abrasive, like you're clearly easy to talk to. And I do think people like you who speak their minds, you make it a safe place for other people to like speak theirs. I mean, that's my experience with people who are saying, well, this is how I feel. This might sound crazy,

but I'm going to say it. And the other person's like, Oh, if you're going to say it, then sure. I mean, this is how I feel, you know?

It's like a dare. Right. So like, it's, I don't have, how many times have you brought it up with this guy? Like, have you just,

have you come out and said like, why aren't we fucking? You know, I haven't actually said those words to him i mean you don't have to say him you know you don't have to say that if you don't want to be crude but have you been like listen like why why aren't we having sex i want to have sex with you oh i mean i've said you know hey i really want to do this and it's always kind of like oh well the kids are around or like we went away together

and he kind of was like, oh, we both drank so much and this and that and we went away the one time and it was so bad every single time that I sat separately on the plane from him and didn't talk to him for about eight or nine months after that until he hunted me down. How many times have you slept

together? 10 to 12 maybe. And it's never been good. There were like points a couple times that like I was thinking we're getting there. I'm like yes you know he's starting to get in there and then literally

the next second it was over. And I was like alright. When you say over like Climax. He was done? Yeah, he got off and done, yeah. I mean, I guess I don't know the answer to the question. I'm not a sex therapist. I can guess and simply just say, you bruise his ego a little bit.

He might just be unique in that sense. Maybe he needs to masturbate more. I don't know. Cause like if he, there's so much buildup, you guys seem to have this like amazing foreplay. You're rarely having sex. And if you have sex and he's climaxing in seconds,

he's a little backed up. I mean, it's like this. Okay. Then back it up and go back to foreplay quick. No, but like, I'm saying like, just as a guy, like if he hasn't climaxed in a while and

all of a sudden he's having sex, it's going to take seconds to do it. Is what's bad. So like he just, there's sex and it's over. Is that what's the worst part about it? Not necessarily, I guess just the lack of interaction there's just like there's not the there's no intimacy and the closeness and it's kind of like get on top of me and do it i blame porn and boring and vanilla and just get it done and that's just not me and he knows that i told him one time it's like i said i don't exactly remember what i said or did but i do you

he looked at me i know what you want me to do to you and i'm like awesome he said that and he didn't and i was like damn uh rochelle brought up an interesting point do you think he watches porn or do you know if he does i would assume so doesn't everybody i don't i don't i think it's ruining our men no i'm not i'm not anti-porn but i think it makes some guys really bad i mean listen i i absolutely agree that porn uh has a definite negative impact on uh relationships and sex i mean i'm not yeah like we can get it maybe it's an interesting topic for another episode but it definitely plays a role and we talked about this with with katie and

when katie was on is that it's made from it's regular porn is designed to with the assumption that more men are watching it and it's designed for more of a male fantasy than a woman's fantasy and a lot of things that happen in porn, as guys, if we try to replicate that, like a paint by numbers, the women will often be dissatisfied with their experience. To put it mildly.

Right? So maybe, I think Rochelle brings up an interesting point, maybe flat out ask him, do you watch porn? See what he says. And then ask him, when we're having sex, is that what you, because it, what's really weird is it sounds like he's not bashful. He, he's right. He's kind of dirty talk, like, but he's getting it wrong.

So maybe, maybe. I'm giving instructions. I'm, you know, gently doing, you know, moving his hands places and talking to him the whole time, saying, hey, I'd really like this, so why don't we try this? When you do that, what does he do? Kind of just keeps going. Oh, well, then that's on him. He's not coaching.

Yeah, he's not coachable. No, I'm serious. Put him on the JV squad. Find a varsity player. Listen, in life, in sports, in the workplace, being coachable or teachable, getting criticism is an important trait. And in relationships, it's, I mean, you don't really call it coachable,

but whether it's even in the bedroom or relationships, to explain what you like and what makes you happy, and they say, great. I mean, talking theme of mansplain, like you guys can think they have it figured out, but if they're not willing to listen to your feedback, especially in the bedroom of what you like, and they think, you know what you want, it's so much mansplain. They're like, this is what gets me off. I mean, I know you think that, but I haven't, you know, like, like that's not okay. Or like when we're not doing it, you know, if he's like, yeah, you know, that'd be great. Or I'd like to do that too or whatever, but it just doesn't translate into the real world for him. So

I just don't know if it is something that if I could just drop it and just be like, okay, this guy just doesn't like, cause when you say drop it, drop it and just be like, okay, this guy just doesn't like me. When you say drop it, drop it and continue to date him? I think sex is important in the long run, but I'm like, okay, right now it is. When I'm 85, it might not be. Okay. For all the people who are like, well, you know, you got to date someone that you love and like looks fade.

Sure. But like, if you're a sexual person, hopefully for the next 20 years, you can still like, you know, knock the booties around with each other. But I just made that up. That sounded really weird. Knock the booties.

I don't know. I'm sinking into my chair. But anyway, no, I mean, knock boots, knock boots, the booties.

Well, I have booties on, so we'll go with that. You just touch each other's butts together. We're helping her at all alien sex um no listen i think that don't i don't know what you think but i do not um sacrifice what you want in a relationship including in the in the bedroom and if are a sexual, and you want sex, and you want good sex, that should be a requirement.

And you should be patient with your partners. And I think especially men need to be coached up sometimes. I think every relationship, people like different things, but it's a red flag if that partner is not willing to listen and take your guidance

and constantly think they know what you want, they get to you.. They get you up. It's one thing to be hot to say, you know, to kind of, you know, take control. Sure.

But not literally listening to what like gets you off is a huge red flag. And so I think you need to put your foot down and say, listen, maybe I'm not communicating well, but like, this is what I want. And this is what I need you to do. And I would love for you to want to do this to me and enjoy doing that. And if he starts doing it, great. If he doesn't cut it, I mean, shut it down because that's, that's a huge red flag. Well, and I think it sounds like everything,

like it's building intimacy when you guys are rounding the bases, but then if the actual sex has no intimacy for you, how are you supposed to feel connected if that's a major thing for you? Which obviously you've said it's a big deal. It is, it's a big deal. And that's the only thing that we're like,

we're on the same page with everything. I mean, we just, we're great around each other other that's his whole family and friends say you guys belong together all my friends and family say this is the one and that's what they say they're not in the bedroom that's that's all those are all nice things but that's not a reason to sacrifice what's important to you and it's not a reason to make an excuse for him not listening to your feedback in the bedroom. Can you give the guy a glass of wine and just switch roles and you take control for a night?

See if that helps. I think we got to the bottom of the business. Because the problem is that you have literally asked him to do certain things and he's ignoring you, right? Is that what's happening? Yeah, and that's not okay. It's not remotely okay. And that's not, it's not remotely. Okay. I think your base should be wanting to please your partner, hopefully.

And there is something hot about like a guy paying attention to a woman, whether verbally or indirectly. I, I, I like to think, I don't know, at least when you are intimate with a guy, even without, you know, sometimes it's like, you don't have to be like, Hey man, can you do this? It's like fun. If that comes to that, fine. Okay. But if you're like kind of responding or like guiding their hand or

whatever, or even showing that can be kind of hot to a little tutorial session. You can make it sexy. But if he's just like, Nope, I know what you want. That's not cool. I mean, the only thing that separates like friends from

relationships, you know, hopefully that's helpful. So put your foot down, give them one last shot, but don't stand your ground. Thank you guys. Thanks so much. That was a lot of fun. Matt. So, okay. So my dating question that comes from just this guy that I matched with on a dating app um he's an EMT I'm a nursing student so we have that going for us it's something that we can connect on um and so I even like we started messaging back and forth through the app and I even lightheartedly joked with him like, hey, we should start an IV on each other for our first date. You know, so we started talking back and forth for a few weeks.

Things were going OK. And then he wanted to he asked for my phone number and wanted to call me, which I really liked this. So like not a lot of people just want to call just to talk nowadays, which I really liked this. So like not a lot of people just want to call just to talk nowadays. And I really liked that. So we just chatted for about an hour, um, just kept it lighthearted. It went really well. Um, it turns out that we both lived in the same city at one point. Um, and it just seemed like we have a lot in common. We talked a little bit about our families, like we're both only children. So it went well. We connected on a lighthearted level, nothing to scare him off or anything like that. So we finally planned a date. Like, okay, so we planned a date for the upcoming

Saturday. And here's where things kind of took a turn. Two hours before the date, he texted me saying, hold on one sec. Let me pull it up word for word. He said, hey, I just started to see someone else a couple days ago. I'm sorry, but maybe in the future you can start an IV on me. Then all I replied to this was, thanks for your honesty. Then he didn't text back after that, you know? Um, so we left it at that. And so question number one is, should I be mad at the bail before the two hours? Like at least he didn't ghost me. Right. So

that's one thing. And, um, by in the future, does he mean he is still kind of keeping his options open with me? I have a lot to say on this one. You do? Well, I'll give my quick thoughts and then I'll let you take it from there. Dating's a little messy. D dating apps are making a little messier the biggest problem with dating apps we've talked about this before is the abundance of choice and uh most people are talking to a handful of people and that's just like kind of a casualty of war so to speak um could he could yes he could have done a little bit better waiting two hours before i mean come on he kind of knew i think he was maybe my just guessing for him is like he, you know, dating it.

He probably went on a couple of dates with the girl and talking to you guys at the same time. That happens all the time. I mean, everyone does that, right? So yeah, maybe literally the night before he had a nice date with this girl. And then he's just thinking he maybe had this. Well, do I go out with you and like meet this girl who I kind of had this nice conversation with this girl. And then he's just thinking he maybe had this, well, do I go out with you and meet this girl who I kind of had this nice conversation with or see

this through? In some ways, maybe he's just trying to do like, he could have gone on a date with you, maybe not really even like being official with this girl, but it's like, hey, and that's, you know, I think in dating apps, what we should do is stop giving ourselves so many options. And if you have a nice time with someone, see it through. I mean, Ashley on the episode one kind of mentioned that, um, Ashley Grace. So two hours before that kind of sucks, but he didn't ghost you. So let's not give him a medal, but like, I don't think he could, um, also the, the whole, uh, uh, maybe he's just trying to be nice. Um, and I guess he probably doesn't know if this person's

his wife but this whole like maybe we can do this in the future yeah maybe but mostly he's just saying it to be nice for sure here's what's interesting though is that he's okay so he's pursuing this girl so he's obviously like somewhat committed to her at this point right like he's cutting ties with his other connections but he's still keeping in touch with me on social media like he follows me on instagram and after this he messaged me like a few days after this not to flirt or anything like that but he was just like yeah he's definitely keeping his options open um i think yeah i think more like a couple of things, right? Don't respond. Um, don't engage in it.

Don't let him keep his options open. You see this as a red flag that if he does come at you like in a week and say, Hey, by the way, I'm not seeing that girl. I'd like to do this whole IV thing. I'm not saying don't go out with them, but know that that's how he handled it in between there. That is a red flag. He's trying to be the good guy, but he's doing a bad job of executing on his plan.

Yeah. I think Nick has kind of kicked that one out of the park. It's one thing that, like, yes, he did the right thing by at least making you aware of it. Whether he's keeping his options open should be the business of the other girl and her concern, not yours. Because you don't need to be an option. Yeah. I think that's great. don't need to be an option. Yeah, I think that's great. Should I view myself as an option?

Like if this thing didn't work out with this other girl and he kept me as an option, would it be naive of me or stupid of me to pursue that relationship? Or not relationship even, but just connection. You know what I mean? Or should I just cut ties with him, move on, see this as a red flag? What I think you should do is be aware of the red flag, but he ended things with you. And I think you should listen to him and you should stop trying to figure out

how much he might like you while he's also pursuing this other relationship. And it's common. We all do this. So like, you're not alone there, but don't let yourself move on. You're on a dating app. Find other guys, you know, like that is my option. So stop trying to figure out what he's doing and what it means. Listen to what he actually said and follow through with his actions of, uh, he's not interested in making you a priority. Got it. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. All right. Good. We didn't even catch your name. Natalie. Natalie. I'm Nick.

This is Elise. Hi. You know. Oh, Elise. Where were you for the call? Well, you should listen to this podcast and you'll find out. I'm sure you guys talk about it in the podcast. Yeah, we will.

We did. Tune in. You know, this was like talking to someone on a plane, have a nice conversation, and then it lands. You're like, oh, by the way, I'm Nick. What's your name? Well, anyways, Natalie, thank you for calling in. We appreciate it.

Hopefully that was helpful. Yeah, absolutely. I love the depth that you bring to the podcast. And I just thought that it would be really great to get your perspective. So thank you. Well, thank you for listening and get some of your guy friends to listen to because then we'll tell them to act better to you. I actually have been encouraging one of my good guy friends to listen in. So great.

Well, thank you so much. Have a great day. I know. Yeah, you too. Well, Elise, thank you so much for coming out to LA and being part of this podcast, sharing your thoughts. I hope that people enjoyed getting to know Elise a little bit better. We were cut short of you on the show.

And I think you had a lot of fans and people who would have enjoyed watching you on a few more weeks, even if you didn't end up with Colton. watching you on a few more weeks, even if you didn't end up with Colton. And despite that, I do give you a lot of credit for making it a real thing because it is a real experience in a really crazy world that can bring you other advantages. But you prioritized not only your feelings, but Colton's feelings and the other women. And I think you get a lot of credit. You should get a lot of credit for that. And you. Thanks for sharing all your words of wisdom and helping explain and helping teach me a little bit more about mansplaining.

It's a journey I am on. I got a podcast where I'm here and I have guests, but then I care too much about feedback sometimes. Feedback's good, but how much do we listen? Five. Can you guys go, if you're listening, go rate us and give five stars.

Um, but, um, I want to, I want this to be a good thing. And I, you know, I want this to be more than just some bachelor recap podcast.

And I, I want, I want to have, I want to learn from it and have an impact. And I want to kind of sometimes push the envelope and I got to, I guess I have to be open to criticism sometimes when I do that. But I want to be willing to get feedback if there's an opportunity to learn. And maybe that's the biggest takeaway here. But thank you for being a part of that.

And it was a pleasure meeting you and getting to know you. And you are welcome back anytime. And one more thing we again our live show um uh buy your tickets it's going to be a small intimate um at the uh rochelle where how can west side comedy theater thank you dustin uh westsidecomedytheater.com uh get your tickets um they uh seats are very limited at least if you are in town March 31st you're welcome to stop by I think Demi is going to be there

oh my goodness that's awesome I think Demi is going to be there so yeah anyways thank you again I can't thank you enough it's been a lot of fun and thank you guys again for listening I think we're starting over with another nine people listening after everyone

told me to fuck off. Anyways, this has been fun. Rochelle, as always, thank you. See you guys next week. Have a great week.