The Viall Files - E123 Ask Nick with Sharleen Joynt

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

The Bachelor’s Sharleen Joynt joins Nick to answer fan questions on sex and dating. But first, they open up about their relationship and their history. Then they speak to someone who is insecure about getting divorced at a young age, a woman self-conscious about queefing, a woman whose guy friend FaceTimes her to watch her work out, and someone who is dating a quiet guy. THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: MASTERCLASS: http://masterclass.com/viall FIGS: https://www.wearfigs.com CODE: VIALL15  SHIPSTATION: https://www.shipstation.com CODE: VIALL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody happy monday welcome to another episode of the vile files i'm your host nick and this is going to be a ton of fun uh i have my dear friend charlene joint to help us with the ass nick uh how you doing charlene hi good how are you i'm great charlene's one of my favorite people in the world uh we've been friends ever since my time on andy's season when charlene um it was her first season writing her uh blog recapping the show on her website. Pandas? I can't believe you don't even remember. I do. I'm like having a brain fart. It's been a minute. Alltheprettypandas.com.

Yeah, that's what I thought it was. But Charlene and I just kind of like we connected, you know, like we kind of understood each other. And, you know, you know, this thing we do on Ask Nick episodes, you know, Charlene and I have been doing stuff like this just as friends when we get together, like talking about relationships, our own relationships, dissecting what we think, our friends relationships. And so Charlene is as good as anyone about, you know, giving relationship advice and trying to be as honest and unbiased as possible and she's you know incredibly intelligent and wonderful and so i appreciate you uh coming on charlene thank you for having me it's an honor uh how are you been otherwise how's uh you know we always like to check in with the whole quarantine situation are you doing fine are you losing your mind a little bit of both i'm kind of doing a little disturbingly fine if that makes sense i'm totally yeah yeah

yeah i feel like you probably know i you mentioned this in another one where you talked about how like there's no social FOMO because you know what everyone's doing yeah and i uh a lot of my life decisions I think are ruled by that sort of like FOMO or um YOLO and it's why I went on The Bachelor so you know it's there's a real like liberty or freedom to just being like well I have nowhere to go what am I going to choose to do with this time and i am very introverted so it's it's almost dangerous it's dangerous uh like i like i haven't seen someone face to face in a screen in a while like this is a big deal for me yeah no i think you and i have have you ever done the enneagram test i have i was a five and then four four secondary okay i guess i'm a three wing four so okay we're both secondary fours maybe i only ask because i know like i know a lot of sorry sorry sorry to interrupt you i'm a four and secondary five okay i know a lot of people are always like oh we're just the

same but like we do have a lot of similarities and we have differences, but it's always been very easy for us to talk and to get along. I think a crucial difference between us is I care more what people think about me than you do. And even though you do care, you execute that care in a different way than I do. Yeah, I care, but it doesn't stop me from doing what i want yeah i'm like crippled by it yeah which i always find surprising about you sometimes i don't i never really understood where it was like i i wish i i really think it's my upbringing and something

canadian about it maybe but i was talking to alon about this um about who you know people who seem cool when you first meet them you know whatever cool may be okay and he was like i was like do i seem cool when you meet me he was like no it's like but when you get to know you you're really cool and i just thought that was a hilarious response and probably very accurate because a lot about such things yeah i mean i guess maybe like i wouldn't say cool but i don't like you you i i think you're intimidating i mean at first i feel like with you um you seem probably cool but like a little too cool like a little too cool for school and then when you get to know you realize that you're really kind of a teddy bear like quite sensitive but you you

definitely don't give that off immediately i don't uh that's that's more of my resting gaze it's not or like an aloofness or just like a loop that's a great word to describe you early early on well i just uh it's one of those things what here's what i care what people think but i'd never have had this i don't care enough to make sure that i'm giving an amazing first impression to the uh to anyone. I have to like, really be excited to meet you. And then I'm really great. But if like, I'm out and about and just like, I just don't have the energy to always be on. Okay, but I agree with you, obviously, that's just accurate. But if and when you were to hear that the kind of person that you like a person that you didn't give your all to wasn't a fan, you wouldn't love that feedback.

Correct. Yeah. I've always feel like that's like a, this a double-edged sword for me. Cause it's like, I care too much. Like that's like you said, I do care what people think,

but I don't do anything about it often, which then also creates this like constant anxiety you know where it's just like well if i was gonna if i'm gonna care so much what people think why don't i help myself out it's like i don't know it's like paying parking tickets late for like you have no reason to do it and you're just gonna get like more fees which oh by the way, I do that. I'm just creating my own. Yeah.

Okay. So next question about this, because I learned this actually doing the anagram thing. Do you feel like some of it has to do with actually less who you're meeting and whether you're excited about it or, you know, consciously putting your best foot forward? And do you think part of it is just the mood you're in? It's not really a mood. Okay, so you don't think you're moody in that way? No, I don't think I'm a moody person. Do you?

No, I don't. You're pretty steady in that regard i think what it is you are you will like depending on who you're meeting or i don't know when it is you know you might make a winning first impression or or not so it's i don't know how to say this with certainty that it's gonna sound great so i'll just say it i uh i'm a heady person i'm in my head a lot and so i just have to be i just have to be interested and intrigued yeah and if i'm not interested and intrigued i have a hard time reminding myself that I need to pretend to be because usually I'm just more interested in what's in my own head. And that's not because it's exciting or that interesting. I'm just, you know, I don't get out of my own way to enjoy the moment or be present.

And if I'm not initially captivated by whatever it is, I don't do a good job of making that person feel interested. For what it's worth, that's one of my, it's not, that fact about you is not my favorite thing about you, but the fact that you can admit it is one of my favorite things about you. Like, I remember the first time we ever talked about this it was in relation to i think my singing and like you asked we've been friends for years i think you asked me my first question like the first question you ever asked me about you know what i do for a living and it didn't i it's never occurred i wasn't like ever like annoyed by it just didn't occur to me i was like you've never asked me about my singing before like why and he was like well because you said this thing and it led me to these questions i had. And it's like, and other times it's just, I didn't really have questions. You know, you were far more intrigued by a conversation we might have about, you know, interpersonal things like, which I totally relate to. But my favorite thing was how you were like, I know I

should socially show that curiosity, but you were like, I, I just don't, I just don't care that curiosity. But you were like, I, I just don't, I just don't care that much. And I was like, just because that's the kind of thing that so many people feel, but no one will admit.

Cause they, you know, they're so concerned with how people feel about them. Yeah. And I would be lying if i said i haven't asked people questions about themselves just because i wanted to seem interested because i wanted them to like me which is that any better like it's not authentic no it is better you're very good because like i mean they're both terrible usually i'm know what I mean. Even if it's slightly insincere, you're very good about making people feel welcomed. And when I

introduce you to people, or let's say I bring a date out with you and Andy, you're so good at making them feel comfortable. And I think even if it's quote unquote insincere, that's a very generous thing to do. For what it's worth, it's rarely insincere, but I'm the kind of person that will, if I give a lot, which usually I'll find something that I'm interested in to like, you know, spark conversation there. But if I find I'm giving and giving, giving and not receiving anything, I'll completely hold it against the person you will turn on people quickly i do like that about you like you like that uh sure yes because that's your that's your authentic side like you are far more generous that way you're way more empathetic than i am and you will give people

a fucking leash that i can't comprehend but once once you do, you will like, you're done. And I will say that I'm never really done with anyone. Because I'm not good at showing empathy, but I actually do think that I'm good at being like, I do always try to understand why the ways why why someone's doing the way why someone's doing what they're doing yes but i think there's a caveat there i think you you do try to think of that only when you respect them uh do i only when i respect no no no no and, if I don't respect them, yeah, I don't have any time for them. Yeah, I don't think that you would give it too much airtime in your mind.

But there's people I don't know, I don't respect a lot about what they're doing, but I weirdly will, maybe it's for my own peace of mind to just be like, I like to understand why people do what they do. Doesn't mean I like it. doesn't mean i even respect it it's just more it makes me like i can understand that situation and again like yeah i'm just more and time heals all wounds it's kind of like i also i don't like holding grudges at all um i just feel that's very toxic energy for me. And that allows me to not hold grudges. Like it doesn't mean I trust that person anymore.

It doesn't mean I really want them in my life. It just means that let's say I run into them down the road. I'm not feeling anything negative towards them because I've understood the situation and I've decided to let it go. I wish I was a little bit more like that, but I think the difference is that in order for me to reach that point, like you said, I have given enough leash where I feel wronged and betrayed or whatever,

enough for me to be like done with that person that I can't help, but hold some kind of a. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Like I would. It took more to get to that point is what i'm saying yes um this is this is either really interesting to people who are super

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That's V I A L L 15 at checkout. No, but I've always enjoyed that part of our friendship about, uh, I think every time I talk to you and then when I come to New York, it is like a, a therapy session for me. Um, because I trust you so much, uh, to talk talk and i also respect your feedback that like sometimes this is a great way for me to reset sometimes um so i find that i find that that comforting so like this is almost like a weird therapy session for me i mean i've the it's definitely, we get each other in a way. And I think we got, like, the day we met, were we in the lobby of your hotel?

Didn't we go to Starbucks? It was right after AFR on Andy's season. Yeah, you were in town for, like, GMA or something. Oh. And, like, we were like, I mean, we got each other right away. And then, of course, you get along with andy like i love andy i think i like andy more than well yeah i like andy i like any more than you you think i don't know that we've talked about that i'm like if we ever get divorced like we

talked about which friends would go with who and i'm like oh my god nick is so yours i think i'm team andy uh which i'll try not to have my feelings hurt by that but i think it's definitely true i feel like every bachelor male friend i have uh like likes me and we get along really well and we're friends for a reason but they like love andy no i mean i love you both equally but yes i guess i'm more surprised uh by how much i love because like i mean we joked about this but i was like openly hitting on you when you first met andy thinking that andy was just like some fucking guy i had to wait for you to break up with before i could like slide in and make a move and then like we

just became friends and it was like a joke and then i met andy and i'm like this guy's fucking awesome and i just like he just became such a dear friend of mine. Yeah. Yeah. It worked out for the best. Yeah. Yeah. I think in an alternate reality,

you and I definitely would have dated if Eddie didn't exist, but I don't know if it would have lasted. Possible. Yeah. You never know. It's a safe bet. Knowing me. Oh, oh,

violin. it's a safe it's a safe bet knowing me um oh oh violin zero sympathy over here uh what are you crying me a river neck what are you up to these days uh to let the people know before we we jump into our questions what am i up to it's like i feel like you can probably relate to this. You both feel like there's nothing to do and so much to do at the same time. I, you definitely get this because a lot of what you do is like, if you're creating something, you're not,

you're not clocking in or doing what you're assigned to do. So you kind of have to make your own opportunities, which, um, I think you kind of have to make your own opportunities, which, um, I think I kind of struggle with, like, I like it when I have a singing gig, cause I know what hours I'm required to be there.

There's like legit structure to my day. And I feel like I need to set aside time to make, to create structure. If that makes sense. Yeah. I'm a, otherwise I'm a little too like airy fairy artsy fartsy. Creative type. No, I struggle with I mean, I mean, ever since I kind of did a shift in my career, I have to remind myself that I'm actually doing something and

being productive because it's it's not like, again, going to a job and, and grinding it out. But I'm, I'm like, what I actually did work today, you know, in a sense. It's just how you define what that is. But there's always like a stepping stone. I guess it's a good sign, the fact that you need to check in with that because it means you must be enjoying it at least somewhat. Totally, yeah.

No, I feel very lucky that way. Where can people find you out there on some of the projects that you're working on? Like, you know, Charlene is doing Listen to Your Heart Recap. She's always recapping The Bachelor and writing about it. And she always has always a great lens and how she dissects every episodes. And what I've always loved about you and something I try to do on our show is kind of go against the grain sometimes, not just for the sake of it, but it's very easy to

just always agree with quote unquote, the edit or the storyline that the show's going. And you're very good at kind of considering other alternatives on how to interpret every situation. I mean, I give you credit in the beginning for kind of defining the tone of my recaps like they've developed quite a following but it's like you said it's not just for the sake of it it's about looking one layer deeper or several layers deeper in a way that maybe it's easier obviously it's easier to do when you've been there and you you know how impatient it can you know you can get all the waiting and all the very trying circumstances, but I really give you credit. Cause like you were vastly despised.

Your first season. And it, I never, I, to this day, I don't, I don't really get it. I never really got it, but it was like, it was the first time I was writing about this show and I would end up doing it. And now it's been like six years. But I would like painstakingly define why what you were doing wasn't wrong or annoying. And it was just interesting to kind of get a following based on that specificity. Like, I feel like you're either going to love or hate my recaps but if you are into them you're going to be really into them because you want to dissect that interpersonal thing the thing we're always talking about i don't think i don't i mean i'm not i'm trying

to be nice but i don't think there's anyone who hates your recaps because like everyone likes alternative points of view and like it's always clear that is not true at all i completely let me let let me or let me articulate a bit more is that you don't have wasted words or thoughts in the sense that there's a lot of people out there who just like to be disagreeable just to like rile people up right just to start shit and they can't articulate it and they can't defend it, right? But that's not you, right? You have a purpose for how you perceive a situation and what you do. And I think people appreciate that.

Just like in all, you know, people always say like, you can't do a first impression. That's true. But the reality is in this world that like our first impressions of people are often inaccurate about who they really are because of what they might be willing to show us, right? We're not always ourselves in our first interactions. And I think you do a good

job of kind of indirectly pointing that out. And that's relatable to The Bachelor and it's relatable to the real world. Thank you. When I read over my bachelor journal that was one of the top things i learned about myself through that experience was that i was not actually that good at judging character which was something i you know was like oh i'm a great judge of character that's something that i felt i should be good at but i'm actually not and i think you were one of the few friends who you know would have the the guts to tell me that. No, I do remember telling you that because I was like, it's funny because one of those things you do, you will like, you are very infusive, right? So like, you're very good at expressing yourself.

So I, when I, and I, and I respect your opinion so much. And I would notice that you would be like, oh, this person like so this or that is so impressive. I'd be like, oh, really? Okay, cool. And then I would meet him and I'd be like, oh, what the fuck, you know? And then I was just so confused. And then I remember that one time I'd be like,

you're not as good at your first read. Like if someone does something that you really like, you latch on to that thing. Yes. like you will if you're if someone does something that you really like you lash latch on to that thing yes and that that will buy that person three or four hangouts it really colors the way i i view them um that's okay that's that's not the worst trait but i still remember you telling me that. And I was like, it's not a comfortable feeling being told something about yourself that a goes directly against everything you've believed about yourself. And B just isn't,

you know, necessarily a good thing. It's not like it's against what you believed for the better, but I respected that you told me that and you were right. And it definitely definitely you know having that awareness has made me go into meeting other new people differently for sure oh god we're so exhausting we are um well charlene what i miss you too um what do you say we get to these questions i think you you're going to really enjoy it.

Charlene was the perfect person for these calls. It was a lot of fun doing it with you, and I hope you guys also enjoy it. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. Make sure to join us tomorrow for our recap of Listen to Your Heart, as well as our Wednesday's episode. If there's nothing else,

let's get to it. Ship station, hard to say, very easy to use. You're getting better at saying it though. Yeah, I know. Listen, we're stuck in our homes. We can't go out as much. We're still trying to get things done and shipping is going a long way to doing that. And if you have any type of small business, whatever, you know, whatever, it's like maybe just an extremely small business out of your home. Or if it's more kind of a, you know, a small business, like say natural habits, where we have a fulfillment center and things like that ship station is a priceless tool that we have been using to run

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Good. How are you? I'm doing well. What's your name? My name's Erin. How old are you, Erin? I'm 31. Nice. How can we help? it's a little bit of a long question but basically um back in december my husband and i split up and basically we've been together since we're 18 minus a couple years that we broke up after college and um everything was pretty amicable and it was going well and in the last couple weeks i kind of

decided that i was kind of ready to move on And I got on some like online dating apps and stuff like that. And then we signed the papers or I signed the papers about a week ago. And then a couple days later, he admitted that he has a girlfriend and it's actually like a mutual friend and his coworker and my client. So I do hair and he, or she was my client and they actually moved. So he moved to two States away a couple, like six weeks ago and he actually moved with her. So that was, he moved with her. She moved with him. I'm sorry. she moved with him i'm sorry she moved with him okay so he moved there and a week later she moved with him and he like asked her to move with him did you introduce

them no he it's his co-worker so he actually introduced me to her so he he's still a client too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And that's the least of my worries though. And so the other little fun fact is that she is 21 and super hot. And like, you know, she and I, she was kind of thinking like about going to hair school and I was like talking to her about being my assistant and all this stuff so it's like kind of in this like mentorship role with her too so um I guess in the healing process I was kind of being I was kind of feeling okay and then in the last week i've sort of morphed into this like man-hating person who i'm just like what's the point of being in a relationship or whatever if

the person's just gonna like go off with someone super young and whatever sure and sorry go on you no no you so just to you asked for the divorce yeah okay um i don't know if i don't know if the divorce is that pertinent to the story but do you do you mind paraphrasing just like why you asked for the divorce or like what ultimately was the reason why it ended yeah so basically um he and i wanted really different things. And I'm in a point in life where I do eventually want kids and all that stuff. And he's just kind of like in this permanent adolescence thing. And he drinks a lot.

And he goes out a lot. And he's always gone. And he's like a bartender. And that's, you know, his coworker was also a bartender. And so he's just like continually sort of in the same place that we were when we were in our early 20s and just like hasn't really progressed and wait so he's not like a bartender on the side no no that's his full-time job okay yeah um i i mean nick i for me i just feel like this guy's making up for lost time. If you guys have been together since you were 18.

Yeah. Oh, he is sowing those wild oats hard right now. Yeah, totally. Well, that's the thing. It's just, I think what you're going through is normal. It's expected. I think the feelings you're feeling right now are understandable. But I do think it's very important for you to try to separate what you're feeling versus kind of like the reality of the situation.

Yeah. And the reality of the situation is you asked for the divorce. Now, that doesn't mean just because you asked for the divorce, you weren't heartbroken about the relationship ending. Right. It sounds like you would have wanted to stay married to him had he progressed along with you, right? Like that's sometimes the challenges of an early marriage or an early relationship is that, you know, you meet at 18, 19, 20 or whatever. And you're both still young adults, right? And now more than ever, people are maturing later in life. And so if you are in a relationship with someone early in life,

that people are not done maturing or figuring out who they are as individuals at 21, 22, 23. And so if you are in a relationship, the hope is that as you guys mature as individuals, you also mature as a couple and those things line up. Often, unfortunately, they don't, which makes a lot of sense. You just don't know what you're going to do. And you've decided for yourself that at still a young age, 31, that he just wasn't getting to this place. And I'm guessing you felt like he never was going to, certainly not in a time in which you wanted to. Right.

Right? I mean, I would say she gave the relationship a fair shot. That is a long time. Yeah, we were married for six years. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, that's the thing is like you, I think you need to really, you know, remember that, right? And again, just I don't want to put words in your mouth. But

do you feel like I guess maybe it's a good time to ask, do you feel regardless of what's going on now, that you've done you did everything you could to give that relationship a chance? Like above and beyond? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's really important. Because, you know, this might I don't know if you're feeling regret or anxiety or fear about like, you made a comment. Well, she's feeling betrayed, I'm sure. Like you're wondering how long this went on for.

And this is someone you spent so much time with. Yeah. Is that a thought you're wondering in terms of like, were there lies that maybe you didn't realize? Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of lies along the way and so i have a hard time like i pretty much believe like 70 of what he says in general like even like little things like i like the specificity of that number so i feel like i mean he's claiming that they didn't have a thing before but like and in his job and everything it would be so easy to do that.

And I don't know. I think, yeah, betrayal. And I can't fathom having moved on so quickly. Like I'm sitting here and I'm like a week ago, I'm getting on apps and I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, you know, six weeks ago has already moved in with someone like in a different state and all this stuff. And I just can't imagine. It makes me feel kind of disposable to be honest yeah i mean i i understand that i

um you know it it just unfortunately it just it's natural what you're thinking i'm just saying like it might be easier said than done i think it's just unproductive to spend a lot of energy trying to figure out what was true and what was not for a relationship that no longer exists. Also, people move on at different stages, right? Like, this could just be, you know, I'm curious, when you asked for the divorce, like, what was his he fight for it did he disagree um um he was he was really upset but he didn't ask for anything different after he kind of just like was upset for a day and then like continued to like do the same things which is like go out with his friends all the time and the same like nothing changed it just sounds like like go out with his friends all the time and

the same like nothing changed it just sounds like he's dealing with this like such a dude yeah right i mean that's the thing it's just like it's like oh you want to force me then i'm fine yeah totally i'm over here like just scared to get on tinder you know he he's not the first 31 year old guy to like go out with a 21 yearyear-old girl, especially. He is a bartender, so his access to these women is significantly high. One thing that in your original email you wrote that I don't feel like you said here, which is that he has told you that you have a harder time meeting someone than him. Yeah. So we were friends and living. We had a house together, so we had to sell it. So we were like friends and living and we had a house together, so we had to sell it. So we were living together. We were friends,

you know, everything's good. And then like one night he came home and he was drunk and it was like a month before we moved out. And he was like, you know, I don't even want to get back together anymore. Um, actually I feel sorry for you because I feel like as a 31 year old, you're going to have a hard time meeting someone. And like, you're going to have a hard time meeting someone. And like, I'm going to have an easier time meeting someone because it's just like easier for guys to meet someone who's younger and whatever. And it's not as easy for you anymore. And at the time I was kind of like, whatever, he's just drunk. It's fine. And then I like wrote it off. And then the next day I was like, you really shouldn't have said that to me that was really mean and he was like

yeah but I don't envy you and then like I thought it I was just like whatever it's just him being him I don't like trying and then it's like still in my brain you know still planted the seed right it's a mission accomplished it sounds like you wanted to hurt you

yeah it sounds like you know you know what he was trying to do. But you still planted the seed and you're still going to have, you still have, I'm sure, insecurities and fears and all those things. And when someone kind of plants a seed like that, even if you know what his intentions are, whenever you're feeling the most insecure and vulnerable, those things are going to creep up at you.

That's very natural. You should, in a way, be glad that he said that. And what I mean by that is is his intention was to hurt you. All that really means is that he wants to make sure he moves on before you do. He's afraid for you to move on before he does. That means he cares, which're he's handling it immaturely maybe yeah like he's going out with 21 year old and he has the right to do your divorce but i'm simply saying that it does mean he cares he's handling it in a very immature way and obviously

just speaks to like maybe why you decided to leave the relationship but it does mean he cares right he wants to hurt you because he's hurt and he's afraid for you to move on, which doesn't mean you should stop. You need to stop. You mentioned your email, like through the divorce, you were very agreeable in terms of like trying to accommodate him because of your guilt. And now it makes sense that once you found that out you feel almost like why was i so nice and and totally accommodating don't regret that i mean these are all like you have the rest of your life to look forward to and all these things that you have to deal with in a divorce while messy like you did the right thing because the worst thing you could have done is let

it drag on and like get any longer than you already yeah and fight over little things and all these little things that you let him have like whatever fuck it like those are all just um superficial things you can get back you can replace like it's you're not going to care three or four years from now you certainly won't care when you meet that person yeah that you're that you're looking for. So like everything you're feeling is this very natural and ordinary. I would challenge you to make, the biggest thing you need to not do

is what you said earlier is let this cause you to resent men in general or question other people. Like you've dated one guy for your entire adult life. You don't exactly have uh um you know an expansive like uh experience with all the different types of guys there's a lot of shitty dudes out there there are there's a lot of great guys out there right i'm not trying to shit on bartenders but like that's like you know if you're gonna date a bartender you're gonna date an athlete you're gonna date

a certain like you open the risk especially when they have access to a certain type of lifestyle like sure and like you you wanted to leave that right but doesn't mean every bartender is going to do that but it sounds like you are looking for something a little bit more established you're looking for someone who might be a little bit more career driven uh who's more interested in growing up a little like less of a Peter Pan type of thing. And it's fine. Like it's all it's it doesn't matter like where people are. It's kind of like what their goals are, where they want to go.

Right. My guess is like it wasn't so much him being a bartender. It was like every time you checked in on him, he was like, no, I'm good being a bartender. You know, so I think you really it's tough. But in these moments, you really need to try to, knowing deep down you made the right call. And these little things that he said or done, naturally it's going to hurt, but that's why. And like the hot 21-year-old, I mean, it is what it is, right? Like I get the betrayal.

It's very predictable. It's very predictable. Sure, he might get married and grow up and have kids with her. And that will feel like, but my, if I'm a betting man, my guess is probably, probably not.

My guess is, you know, in about three to six months, it will be like, hopefully you won't be aware of it, but have, have comfort in the fact that chances are he will be fighting with her about things he won't even expect to fight about.

It will be just total insanity to him. He's going to get sick of it real fast. Totally. But right now, he's just making up for what he's telling himself is lost time. And you are going to as well yeah you're you're everyone does it differently yeah yeah and for what it's worth i just really feel like the way he's handled it like i understand that him wanting to hurt you is a sign of him caring but i also think it's so not the way you would want your life partner to to treat you when he's been hurt by you. So it's like, it really represents a massive reaction

to being hurt that you just don't want to live with. So it's like, you know, you can add it to the cons list, basically. And second of all, as a female who's older than you and who met her husband at around 30, let me just tell you that it's just all uphill from here. But honestly, the pool of men is way better. Way better. Okay. That's more. Yes, they're more informed. They're more mature. They're more prepared. They don't they, they learned their lessons from dating 21 year olds to know what it is to compromise. Yeah. And I think we're another part of like, my question is like, you know, I'm entering such a different era right now. I like when I was single

last, so we broke up for like three years after college, whatever. So there was like a short time that in the span of 18 to 31 that we were not together, but like the whole, it's like there was no online dating and stuff. No no it's a totally different time yeah craziness enjoy enjoy it don't feel rushed don't feel pressure um you know this is your time to whatever you know the equivalent of you dating him dating a 21 year old this is like i also like at my as far as this you're the specific situation that you're in and i don't know what charlene thinks definitely don't i get why you ended the relationship right i get that he he wasn't ready to mature he wasn't able

to mature quickly and you want something more serious. That being said, allow yourself to have a little fun for at least a period of time. You know what I'm saying? Like you have the right and maybe, you know, maybe you go out with your friends and you run into this 25 year old like boy and he's hot and you're feeling it. Go for it. I'm not saying settle down with him. Like have some self-awareness about like about don't get yourself back in the same... No, I've already done that. I don't need to do it again.

Yeah. But I'm just simply saying you're allowed to enjoy it too. You've been in a relationship for a long time and you've made some sacrifices. So just make sure until you find that person, allow yourself to have the freedom and fun too. I think sometimes people in your situation will put this like burden on themselves it's like you left this you left this marriage for these very simple reasons and you don't want to feel like a hypocrite by allowing yourself to like go out and have fun and goof around yeah you you are allowed to do that, right? It's just like whenever that person comes in your life,

just make sure he has the qualities that you're looking for. There's definitely a balance there. You don't have to be so earnest and so steadfast that you're like, well, I'm not allowed to have fun because that's not what I want. I mean, I agree with you on that one. you know that's not what i want i i got i mean i agree with you on that one i i don't know many people who really regret their moments of fun yeah you know what i mean totally you don't look back on that later and think oh i wish i'd like not had sex with that guy you know you're like oh that was actually a fun time or it was awkward it made a good story like it was a learning

experience totally yeah but i just think a lot of people in your shoes will sometimes be too hard on themselves about like, well, I have to do this. And you seem like a person who, you know, like you have this accountability that you wish your ex-husband had. And just don't take it too far in yourself, I guess is all I'm saying. Yeah. You know, like, Defying yourself, I guess, is all I'm saying. Yeah. You know, like, don't feel guilty about being on dating apps. Don't feel like... Yeah. The relationship's over, right?

It doesn't matter how fast he's moving on. It doesn't matter how fast you're moving on. Now it's really about... It is your time to be selfish right now. Yeah. Especially while you're single. You're probably not used to that. So I would embrace embrace i would probably

embrace that uh and enjoy that while it lasts uh and then like charlene said there's like a buffet of guys who you know hopefully have uh matured and are ready to settle down and my guess is like you're also probably gonna fall trap to like the first like like people in your shoes usually what happens like the first guy that's pretty nice who's like the opposite of your ex you're gonna fall in love with you know so be be mine be mindful of that because he just might be different um so you know just don't let him get in your head about your age you don't need to be in a rush uh to to settle down like so yeah there's just just some pitfalls to be aware of while you are are kind of moving on that's a good point even like a couple weeks ago i felt guilty because i started slowly taking like pictures of us off of

like instagram and i was like oh i hope he doesn't notice doesn't matter yeah that's like whatever whatever you do do you do it for yourself. So it doesn't matter if they stay up. It doesn't matter if you delete them. The important thing is whatever you do, you need to not be thinking about what he's going to think about it. You're doing it because I need to remove these because it's just not good for me to look at. Or I don't care if we're divorced, but you know what? It was still a part of my life. Whatever it is, it should be about your own mental health and in no way thinking about how it's going to affect him. Not to be cold, but it doesn't matter.

He's doing his thing. You need to do yours. He's made that very clear that he's doing his thing. And you've done all this through the divorce. You're better off having dealt with it quickly so so that now you can really truly be selfish as it relates to your relationship with him yeah i think that's a good point i think yeah i've spent a lot of time like not being selfish and it might be the time to do that yes there are certain people And I think congratulations are in order.

I think, you know, wasn't it Louis C.K. who said this? Someone. Like how when there's a divorce, your relationship's over for a reason. Like you broke up for a reason.

Like this is, Nick's right. It's like totally your time to shine. And it's actually just very exciting. Thank you. Congratulations.

Definitely embrace that. And, you know, it's okay that you got hurt and he said those things but just be mindful of of of going down a rabbit hole and just being like you know what it does hurt me that he said that but i know why he said that and yeah it's an insecurity but i'm not gonna let it get to me you know like yeah i think that's always the best way not pretending it doesn't bother you saying it does but then like addressing why and then moving forward right so okay cool all right well i feel a lot better thank you good well uh you're gonna be fine that's like i said thank you

like charlene said you have a lot to look forward to uh and um you you, you, you might, you, maybe you probably should just block them or mute them. Yeah. You don't have moments of weaknesses of like checking in on him. It's, it's inevitable, you know, it's going to bother you. It never pays off. Never pays off. Yeah.

Yeah. That makes sense. Um, and just remember every time he hurts you from here on out, it's information that you want to know sooner than later. Yeah. It's, it's good to know. Yeah. Cool.

It only solidifies your decision. Yeah, definitely. All right. Yeah. Take care. Best of luck. Thank you.

All right. Nice to meet you. Good luck. She's a sweetheart. Yeah. Charlene, when you were, um,

before you met Andy, uh uh how old were you when you met andy 29 okay and you were coming off obviously juan pablo season did you i mean you're you're a pretty self-aware person but as you approached 39 and you were single coming off the uh uh bachelor did you ever have anxiety about your age and getting older as a woman? Did it ever get to be honest, maybe a little but honestly, that's something I've had my whole life more than most women. Like I've always liked dating older guys. When I was 20. My boyfriend was 28. And not so much older you dating older guys. I'm just saying like, did you ever get self conscious? I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if the answer is no. But like, as you got older guys i'm just saying like did you ever get self-conscious i mean i i wouldn't

be shocked if the answer is no but like as you got older like every like when i turned 25 i got weird about my age you know i mean i think i i think any woman who said that she doesn't think about it at all as she nears or reaches 30 is lying like it's you know just somewhat in the back of your mind just if you think about timeline even if you don't want kids, you just sort of think about, you know, the options you have. And also it sort of forces you to come to terms with like whether or not you have been unreasonable in your wants. Do you know what I mean? Like if you're the common denominator and why your relationships haven't worked out. But for what it's worth, I actually don't think anyone should get married much before 30 anyway.

Because I think that it really, you really learn so much about yourself in those years. How's it going? Hi, Nick. How are you? Good. How are you? What's your name? Good. I'm Brooke, and I'm 20 years old, and I'm from Pennsylvania. How can we help? Can we help? So I was listening to an old Ask Nick episode a few days ago because I ran out of up-to-date podcasts.

And there was one of the questions a girl was talking about with her insecurities when it comes to relationships. So then that got me thinking what my insecurities about relationships are. And I'm 20, haven't had a relationship, so I don't really have any relationship insecurities about relationships are and uh i'm 20 haven't had a relationship so i don't really have any relationship insecurities so then i started thinking about in general like what my insecurities when it comes to guys are and the first thing that came exists yeah yeah right and it's a it's a bummer because a lot of my friends won't own up to it that it's happened to them mid interaction and so I'm kind of just like over here like well no one else is admitting to it like am i the only one is it weird i don't understand why that's a

stigma right i'm like you can't really help it it's air being pumped into your vagina by a penis thank you thank you escape your vagina that's what i'm saying it's more his technique than anything right wait is it is it is it based off of the guy i don't know is it you don't know is your insecurity based on the guy my no i'm saying like when charlene said it's more the guy's technique charlene oh oh what about you're asking me well you said it's more about the guy's technique it is i mean as far as as far as that creating griefing or not absolutely it's a factor how so because depending on how far you come out and then go back in if you go it's sort of like a mascara wand if you pull it out all the way you're gonna put air in and you take it all the way

yes he's he's not air his his his technique is not airtight yeah but i don't think it's it's not the insecurity about the guy it like i've never felt like uncomfortable because of like what he said to me or like anything like he never made me feel weird but it's just whenever that does happen it's like i completely just like i'm turned off like i'm not into it anymore i'm embarrassed even though like he's not making me feel that way it's like my own thing so like I just kind of wanted to pick your brain and figure out like from a guy's perspective like is it is it something that like when it happens you're just like oh like whatever like who cares or is it something like that is a turnoff for them too I mean I haven't really experienced that but like I don't know I just kind of i just kind of wanted some like some

older perspective like and like even if it doesn't bother you now like think back to when you were like a college kid like when you're in your 20s like like was it something like the guys talk about that like i see you know i don't yeah i don't i think it's not a really a big deal at all. I don't remember the first time I experienced that, but yeah, I was probably young and I think it's just kind of common sense of what it is. Usually it happens if you're like having sex for a longer period of time. Right. And you're just, and it's like a buildup. It's not as if like you start having sex for two

seconds later and all of a sudden that a queef happens, right? So I don't ever remember it being, anytime I have had that happen, especially a while ago, it, yeah, I remember the girl feeling maybe a little bit of embarrassed and she again to your point was curious about my reaction you know uh and i just kind of brushed it off it's like yeah whatever no big deal you know i remember i've remembered times where she just like wanted to make sure she that i knew what that was you know it's like just so you know you know kind of thing um but yeah i can't speak for guys i don't remember talking about it with guy friends um and there's always going to be the occasional asshole guy who might not have a lot of experience

or or might be weird and immature but yeah like that's the same guy that's gonna make a comment about cellulite like that's that guy yeah sure but also like just might be like a young guy who doesn't know any better you know sometimes i'm not defending it but like sometimes you get nervous and awkward and you say nervous and awkward things that come across as rude and and mean and all you are is nervous right um but yeah i wouldn't stress about it at all i wouldn't make it a big deal um i have i have strong opinions about this i agree on this yeah no i just think that this you are clearly very mature for your age but to me that shows your youth the fact that you are you know what i mean like when i think back to when i was 20 like you know i'd be self-conscious about positions i was in what

my body looks like in that lighting or in that position and and queefing is just one of those things like it happens to everyone maybe some people more than others but like i said it really comes down to position and technique and like nick said how long you've been doing it for uh as long as you don't think it's like a medical issue which i don't think it is it's like yeah if any if you told me this guy was like making some comment i'd be like dump him but yeah as long as yeah i think that this is you you're just, you know, with more experience, you'll realize that it happens to everyone. And it's, if anything, I think it's hilarious.

When it happens with me and Andy, it's like funny. Also, you know. Especially if it's a really good one. In a weird way, in a weird way, a sense of accomplishment of like, wow, we've been really having some sex, you know? Like, just to be clear, like you haven't had a guy say something that made you feel embarrassed or no like if anything we both just laughed and then just kind of like carried on but then in the back of my head i'm still like like it takes me a few minutes to kind of get back and

they're like oh yeah let's do this yeah and to charlene's point that's kind of speaks to you know your youth uh you're getting used to it you'll become eventually numb to it but like um it's just something that happens yeah sex is you know messy and and uh yeah i mean it's like anything else. Like why your friends might not want to talk about it. I don't know. Eventually they will more, but I will say, like I will say is that from a guy's point of view and maybe other guys are different. I don't ever remember it being a topic of conversation

with my guy friends being like, hey, did this ever happen to you? Like I don't have a distinct memory but i just remember me thinking this makes sense you know like you have a lot of sex for a period of time just like literally the physics of it all would suggest that you might like there might be too much air going in a hole that needs to get, you know, it's just,

it's common sense. And so, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't ever remember being confused. That's good. Yeah.

To the point where I'd be like, yeah, unfortunately the guy that I'm with, he's in a fraternity. So, you know, they kind of lack that. So like, I'm hoping that they just kind of,

he just assumes it's common sense, but do you, do you know that he brought it up to his buddies no i don't but i wouldn't i i don't know that i would be surprised had he not and honestly i don't really know if i care that much but uh i seem to care in the moment that when when it happens i care i would only i would only care as it relates to him having a level of respect for you and for your privacy. And if he were to make it a thing that you... It's not an embarrassing thing, but I could imagine that if you went to some party and a bunch of his buddies talked about about you queefing that would be embarrassing yeah it's a little bit but again don't get in your head by assuming he's doing this like you know unless you find out like just assume he's not yeah i have no reason to actually believe it i just

also remember that this is it is technique first and foremost so let's say this guy has had sex with three girls and he's having sex the way he is it's he's the common denominator in that do you see what i'm saying like it's more likely that all three of those women are queefing i don't know that if you're having sex with three guys and you're queefing i don't suspect it's going to come up but if it did and he somehow got publicly embarrassed you could just be like we'll learn how to fuck buddy you know like okay i definitely will but i think we're probably getting ahead of ourselves a little bit i'll give them a little credit i'll give them credit where credit's due it's not i'm giving you credit for calling with this concern because like that takes major balls

and it's very impressive and honestly there are going to be girls that listen to this and like feel better about it so these little things about sex i mean it's good to get out there and people you know we we still we surprisingly have a culture that shames sex and shames talking about it and and as a result there's still a lot of ignorance and and disinformation about some of this stuff. So, yeah, I think it's good to get it out there. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much for chatting me through this. I appreciate it.

All right. No problem, Brooke. Best of luck in your future sex life. Thank you. Thank you. May you have more fun stories. Take care. Thanks, guys.

How's it going? Good. My name is Gabby. I'm 24. Take care. Thanks, guys. How's it going? Good. My name is Gabby. I'm 24. Hi, Gabby, 24. How can we help? So I have this friend that I met when I was living in England about three years ago. And I met him and his girlfriend.

And we became good friends. And then I was dating someone at the time. And he was dating his girlfriend at the time. And then we became good friends. And then I moved back to the States. we were I was dating someone at the time and he was dating his girlfriend at the time and then we became good friends and then I moved back to the states and then we kept in touch via Facebook but we just didn't talk that much because of the time difference and then recently with the quarantine he reached out to me and he was like oh like what have you been up to I was telling him how I've been really into working out so he's like oh let's let me join you so I would FaceTime him but then he would not work out he would just watch me for a while

and then and then I found out through him and his ex-girlfriend who he still lives with that he has a sex addiction and he like doesn't know when girls are flirting with him or not so I don't know if he's just being supportive or like if i have a right to be creeped out like i just don't really know how i should be feeling um great great question um so just out of curiosity uh when when he facetimes you facetimes you with this perceived intention of like working out with you which you know that's a neat that's a neat idea like yeah quarantine let's you know everyone likes to work out buddy so there's no reason why you can't do that virtually and then he doesn't are you afraid are you like you don't say anything because you're just afraid to like make him like feel embarrassed yeah like i i've been busy

working out too so it's not like i can only talk between what I'm doing but I also don't he is just wanting to be a good friend and be there for me I don't want to be like what are you doing like why are you eating a chicken like I you know I just want to but the he he starts this out by saying let's work out together yes okay that's how it starts and then this is so and you make this sound like it's happened more than once because to me this is like a one-time thing like it's happened more than once. Cause to me, this is like a one time thing. Yeah. It's happened to like four or five times. It's creepy. It's creepy. So it's,

it is creepy. Um, I'm only going to point out that like, uh, you just need to stop allowing this to happen. You are, you are in control here. And this is definitely one of these situations where,

um, and this happens to everyone. Like, and like and i think it happens more with women but they seem to go along with things they're uncomfortable with because they don't want to embarrass the guy um and they don't want to seem i also think that they don't want to seem arrogant in assuming that he has he sees her that way exactly like i don't want to assume that he sees me in that way just because i'm a girl because then i'd feel bad if he didn't i'd feel like yeah yeah you don't well yeah you feel self-conscious making it true like oh sure but also yeah yeah take take that part out of it i i can assure you right now charlene is a good

friend of mine she's married i have no confusion about the status of our relationship. And if Charlene suggested that we should work out, and I was like, okay, that's different, but cool. Let's work out. I wouldn't A, think that she was in any way doing anything other than trying to work out. If she decided to eat a bag of potato chips while she watched you work out,

I still wouldn't think that she was trying to do anything with me. I would still be like, well, why the fuck aren't you working out like I'm just gonna go now you know what I'm saying like I wouldn't why aren't you doing the thing you said you were gonna do yeah I wouldn't want any of my platonic friends to to watch me work out so like this doesn't you having a problem with it doesn't sexualize uh the situation and doesn't suggest that you are making any implications about his interest in you it's it's just weird you know yeah it makes i mean it makes you uncomfortable enough to have called about it so yeah that along unto itself even if he's not meaning this in a creepy way, which I still think he is, that unto itself is reason enough to stop it.

Yeah, he probably is. But I'm simply saying like, you can have the comfort of like saying, well, nah, I don't like want to. And like, and if he gets defensive of like, well, why is it a big deal? I'd be like, I don't know. I just, I don't like,

I don't like my mom or anyone watching me work out. But like, I'm fine with, like I wouldn't go to a SoulCycle class and be the only one working out while 29 other people are dressed and watching me. I'm fine with going to a workout class around other people because everyone's working out and everyone's in it together. I don't even like when people talk to me at the gym. Sure, right? and everyone's in it together like i don't even like when people talk to me at the gym sure right but i'm just so that's what i mean that like it this idea that like you're being very normal by not not liking an audience when you work out yeah because i

i kind of stopped responding to him when he like has been talked been talking to me and then he'll like i guess like he'll just make comments like oh like why did i why aren't you responding like did i did i offend you like and like i just don't respond because i don't know i don't want to be like oh no it's okay but i also don't want to be to like know how to approach it i guess i don't know how to like start the conversation yeah i mean um honestly like i get the whole like don't ghost or whatever but i don't think there's anything wrong with you just avoiding the situation i mean yeah like how close are you how close are you with this guy like are you like we we only we were only friends for about six months before i left the country he was in so we've been like facebook friends for three years but we you know only knew

each other for six months i honestly think the only reason you should or would bring it up is if you're thinking to yourself, I'm not good at addressing awkward situations, and this is literally practice. You have nothing to lose by bringing it up. And it is tough to bring up awkward situations, especially if you don't want to be a dick or a bitch or whatever but like you want to like be heard that's a tough thing to do for anyone right and it does take practice and it's you know so if that's what you want to do then do it don't feel like you need to like he knows it's weird and now he's feeling uncomfortable that you're not responding and like i am curious about the the sex edition thing the

sex edition are you i just hold that thought nick i just want to interject that i think you should bring it up because you know for a fact that he has a hard time reading cues and this guy needs every education every bit of education he can get so he needs to know that this is not okay yeah i mean if you just ghost him he's not really learning that lesson to know that this is not okay. Yeah. I mean, if you just ghost him, he's not really learning that lesson. I think that's a nice thing to do. I just don't think it's her responsibility to do it. No, but it would also just be so, like, it would be she would feel better afterwards, too. It would feel better than ghosting. No, I know. I mean, I just don't.

I agree with Charlene that you would probably feel better. It'd be a nice thing to do for him, regardless of how he initially handles it in the moment. I just don't think you owe it to him. Agreed. Is all I'm saying. It would be a gift. It would be a gift. Yeah.

So if you feel like being generous, that's what you can do. But yeah, Charlene was saying he has a hard time reading how did does that is is that is learning that information about him is that making you more self-conscious about whether you should say it or not because you you feel like oh well he's got this thing and i don't want him to feel judged about it yeah and i also don't know much about it like I don't know what it's like to desire that to the point. And I know that's what ruined his relationship with his ex was he cheated on her multiple times. So I don't really know what that's like. So I don't want to make it sound like I'm judging him for this very real mental health issue.

True. And I get that. And that's very empathetic of you and very nice. But it's also important to note that, well, it's a mental health issue. And for example, alcoholism is a disease and that sucks. But it doesn't mean that if you are in a relationship with an alcoholic, you have to put up with it. You know what I'm saying? Like it doesn't have to be your problem

and you still have the right to express things that make you uncomfortable while dealing with that disease. You know, it doesn't give him a pass to do things. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I just, I still want to be his friend. I just don't want him to like continue to do this with you know other girls and me and i don't want him

to continue to take advantage of that friendship like well if you want yeah and if you want to be his friend then you definitely need to say something yeah that makes sense remember that he he put you in this position whether or not he like fully understood what he was doing. He must have some kind of an idea or else he would just say, I want to watch you work out. Like the fact that he's even misleading you to get to that point shows that he knows there's something a little off about it. And so the fact that you're here,

like in this predicament, like it's his, you don't need to use kid gloves with him like this like nick said this is not your problem like it sucks for you that you are racking your brain on how to deal with it and so just remember that yeah i do i do have a question did you learn from him about this addiction i learned from him and from his ex-girlfriend okay so you learned from but but him that means he's open to talking about it have you talked about it how much have you talked about that did he just like mention it and that was it

or have you had discussions about it well i you know like i kind of asked him like you know how he came to that conclusion and then how what got how he got help and like kind of like what that entails because i was curious and i know all he's really told me is you know that he just can't read cues and he thinks everyone's flirting with him and it's super hard especially in quarantine because he's by himself with his roommates one of which is his ex-girlfriend so he's just very much like isolated so he's like it's just even harder like when you have no human connection so I mean try if you want to be his friend try to have more conversations with him about that and again like you got to set boundaries so next time you talk

to him if you do like don't be working out right so you can control that even if he's like even he's like hey when are you working out again be like i already did but if you want to talk and not work out i'm fine and then if you like are facetiming and talking just be like, I already did, but if you want to talk and not work out, I'm fine. And then if you like are FaceTiming and talking, just be like, I'm curious. Like, I would like to learn more about this. Tell me about it. And then maybe in that conversation and in a way that's not threatening or judgmental, you say like, well, I guess I'm just curious. Cause like, Hey, listen, no judgment. It's fine. But it didn't make sense to me why you asked to work out didn't and you wanted to watch did you i'm curious did you think i was flirting with you i'm and you say

it in a way that's friendly and again like he's got to be able to talk about it right he also brought it up to you you know he wanted you to know for some reason um you know he doesn't get to pick and choose like well hey i'm going to tell you about my problem. But like, when I don't want to talk about it, I don't have to talk about it. And then you kind of are left hanging again. This is all based off the assumption that he's going to be your friend.

Yeah. Right. Of course. Yeah. Sorry, go. I didn't say I just, my main thing is I don't want to make him uncomfortable by bringing it up.

I don't want him to think, Oh my God, she, she's like, like, wait it up on me. I don't want to make him uncomfortable by bringing it up I don't want him to think oh my god she she's like like waited out by me I don't know I just I guess I'm more worried about his feelings than anything else if that makes sense Charlene you're very kind um I'm just curious how like out of the last four or five times that he's watched you work out like have there been other conversations interspersed there like where you just chatted and there was no working out and you plan to talk and you talked or is this pretty much what your interaction has been for the last while when you're done working out is he like all right well

i'll see you later well it's a worthwhile question well like like when i finish my workouts and like we'll talk a little bit and i'll be like oh you know like what's your the rest of the plans for the evening and then like he'll be like oh i'm just gonna like go to bed or i'm gonna watch something like and then it's just very it's very like only like a two two to three minute conversation afterwards it's not like we continue talking for a half hour afterwards it's just very short i mean and there's no potential fetish. Yeah. Yeah. There's no other like just set conversations where the workout is not on the table. No, it's pretty much. This, I mean, this is not a friend. I'm sorry.

No, it's okay. He's creepy. He's creepy. He knows he's creepy to some degree, whether or not he understands the full extent. I don't know. But yeah, I guess I'm just confused when this would have started i guess because you know we started out as friends and we've always been friends so it's interesting that this is just happening uh i'm just guessing here but you you probably were

never friends what you what you were is he was in a relationship and you know i know he's cheated and all these things but you know because he was in a relationship you just decided well clearly he's my friend he has a girlfriend he can't this can't be romantic right um you never knew how he felt about you and the fact that he's not in a he just doesn't fucking know you know like you could just be one of many girls he's talking to yeah that's true uh or watching work out or watching work out and and you kind of have an innocent um approach to the situation and not that he's like i said it's weird it definitely seems to be a fetish of some of some kind but yeah you're not you this is not like your homeboy or life partner you're like your life your buddy from college like this is this is a guy that you were friendly with

based off the assumption because he had a girlfriend and now he doesn't and now he he might not be like trying to marry you but like he is definitely sexualizing this relationship in his mind. I would be very interested to see if, if you did take Nick's advice and in the future be like, Oh, I've already worked out, but you know, like I'm free to chat. I'd be very interested to see if he actually chats. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be interested to, I mean, I definitely am curious. I,

like I said, like, which is really stupid. Like I still am very nervous about his his feelings because i don't want to hurt him and i don't want him to feel like you're being too nice at this point he's definitely you know whether it was manipulation by him or truly just an innocence um he has a little bit too much power in this friendship of yours that you call it um like he's what are you getting out of this yeah seriously other than feeling like uncomfortable great question i mean i don't know like i guess i just feel like oh like when we were friendly with each other we had a good we had good times and we had fun hanging out like you know and i just kind of feel like it's kind of nice to have that kind of connection back to a place that was so important to me

because it's more about the place than about the person that makes sense but yeah you there's other people out there uh i i this you said you're 24 yeah oh yeah this is i mean i just don't really feel like in 10 years you're going to still be friends with this person. No. Not even like a year. And part of it, too, six months, whenever you're able to go outside, part of it, too, is like, listen, you're just comfortable with him right now. Yeah. It's a weird thing sometimes. Someone can be weird and obnoxious and just a pain in the ass and difficult and all these things. But what you are is comfortable with them in the sense that

you know them and you're more comfortable with them than a total stranger. And that's the only thing he has over every other total stranger is that you know him and you've had a couple good memories. you can have pretty solid memories with anyone i yeah like this is what you just might need a little bit more um experience of just connecting with other people and knowing when you're not getting anything out of a relationship and it's okay for it to end yeah yeah that's a great that's an excellent point yeah and i think i've always had issues with letting go of friendships and things that were toxic because I've had plenty of toxic friendships in my life.

So I think that's always been my weakness is knowing when it's toxic, when it's not. I mean, I don't know you very well, but I know that you're way too nice. Yeah. Yeah. But, and don't judge yourself. You judge yourself a lot. I hang on to relationships in every way too. Something I think you do when, when we're younger, you get better at it. But

listen, you're not going to have any regrets this way. You might waste a little time, but you're not going to, you're always going to feel confident when you do finally get the courage to let it go to know that like, that wasn for me and you'll never like go back and wonder and whether it's romantic or just a friend like it's not the worst trait to have but you do need to get better at at at like our charlene said a great way to do that is ask yourself what am i getting out of this and if it's just like familiarity that's not enough yeah that makes sense to let it go that makes sense thanks so good yeah i am i am curious if you know i want to know what happens with this uh you're you're you might be better like there might the right thing to do might just be to not talk to him anymore but that's not going

to happen you're clearly going to so um definitely do not work out in front of him and just make it clear that you have already worked out and i'm really curious if he even bothers i actually i think that she like there's a specific plan of attack here first it's when he wants to work out next you say i can't work out but i i've already worked out but i can chat if he drops the ball nut and clearly isn't interested in talking to you and not watching you work out then that's all you don't need to tell him anything you don't you do not owe him the gift of the information yeah but then if he does want to talk to you then i definitely should do what they said which is like kind of in bringing up the sex addiction thing addiction thing and sort of ease that in yeah yeah that makes sense because he clearly values your friendship enough to just

talk to you with no and if final thought before we let you go if you happen to hurt his feelings while doing this you don't have to feel guilty like sometimes people's feelings get hurt and you can say you like you know i'm saying you did nothing wrong you're not doing this maliciously he's put himself in this situation he's opened up to you uh people like love to use like well you hurt my feelings as like a weapon to always like get their power back in a situation so like don't fall victim to that because my guess is you because you're so sweet and nice people sense that about you and sometimes they easily take advantage of you by just simply accusing you of hurting their feelings yeah don't let him play

victim here okay thank you i appreciate that is it needed here it's hard i need to hear it though all right well take care this has been a great story thank you for sharing yeah good one of course thanks you're nice to meet you good luck all right take care all right bye-bye that's a first. That guy. Creep. All the red flags. Watching someone work out. I don't... I don't know if I get that. Especially since if that's what you're into, there's like a million Instagram accounts

you could just clip out for that. Yeah, but maybe there's something there about like an intimacy aspect of it. I can... I hate that it made... Like she clearly feels uncomfortable. She's so sweet. It's just like, oh, this guy.

Oh, I'm not a fan. No, I... I want to follow up. Like she needs to follow up on that. I want to know what happens. I'm invested. How's it going? Good.

How are you? Good. What's your name? Susan, 26. All's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Susan 26. All right. Susan 26. How can we help? Sure. I had sent an email to Rochelle and my dilemma kind of is I have been dating this guy for several months. We've gotten along really well. He's a more quiet person than I am. So that's been something to get used to with family members, just making comments that he's very quiet and quite shy. We've expressed our care for each other, said I love you to each other. He's brought up that he wants to take the next

step but over the last few months he's struggled to share affection um communicating it um so i i'm just struggling to figure out okay is this him not actually caring about me or how to take it with his personality set. Is he the same with you as he is with your family? Not at all. No. Yeah. Okay. How is he with you? Yeah. He's really outgoing with me. We work in the same type of industry, so we get along really well, can talk about pretty much anything to do with that whereas with my family he struggles to even have a normal conversation just relax

conversation and i don't know if it's his nerves or what it really is um and and so i just want to make sure i'm clear by understanding because like he's still affectionate and communicative with you right like that hasn't changed or has that gotten worse it's gotten worse he at the beginning for the first i don't know three or four months he was very expressive um but you could tell that he was uncomfortable doing it at first um and now it's kind of backed off and maybe it's because I'm the one that's always expressing my care. I'd rather him know exactly what I'm thinking and how I feel. Um, uh, but I'm definitely not getting the same in return.

How long have you been in this guy? Um, since September of last year. Okay. guy um since september of last year okay is he aware that you're not getting what you want not exactly i've i haven't stepped up maybe to communicate that just in a little bit of fear that um he would be in the upper hand is that is that a little bit messed up for me to say but no i'm curious what you mean though okay um when someone likes another person uh it seems like you're at a disadvantage in the relationship if you're the person that's um seeking more affection yeah i totally understand it's it makes total sense you don't want to reveal that you would like more and it shows that you

were really invested and maybe he's not as invested and it might shift the power imbalance i get that sure that makes sense okay um anything else no i think it's just the struggle of okay does he actually care or where are we at okay i gotta sorry i gotta jump in here nick i know you've already said no no i have dated this guy i dated this guy for two years i had this relationship and it was a wonderful relationship honestly like i don't have anything bad to say about it so it's not i'm not saying like this this guy for two years, I had this relationship and it was a wonderful relationship. Honestly, like I don't have anything bad to say about it. So it's not, I'm not saying like this relationship is due, but Oh my God, you have to tell him because he does not know that you need that. And it's just not his love language. Like he is not naturally effusive, maybe affectionate. Like

is he affectionate in like physically? Yeah, I would say, say um i have to be the initiator on that for sure okay i yeah this is definitely even if it means shifting the power or whatever you you've been dating him long enough that it's even if it shifts it then that's information that you want to know sooner than later yeah also yeah Also, yeah, I just want to, the power thing, I get it, but that's also mostly in your head, right? Like there's also power to be gained by having the confidence to state your intentions and be steadfast in what you know you want in a relationship, right? Like there's a difference between like, well, why don't you love me? I'm like, I'll do anything for you. Please don't leave me. Like I'll die if you do versus like, Hey buddy,

like I want to be in a relationship with someone who can communicate with me. Right. Like I know I gave you two extremes, but like, that's a very different, right. The other thing too is, sorry, Nick, finish your thought. No, yeah, go ahead. Same with my, my ex did this little thing where like he was the one spearheading the relationship so in that sense it is a like action speak louder than words thing like he's the one that has sort of been like oh i want to take the next step like

you know all these things that would suggest that he is committed to you and really is a big fan of yours yeah i mean first of all that should make you feel safe enough to tell him this and it second of all i think does speak you know a lot of guys could just tell you how gorgeous he thinks you are and how much he loves you but it doesn't necessarily mean that much i think he's showing it in a way that matters more but you really yeah you gotta gotta bring it up also i feel like there's there's potentially a few different this is all not necessarily like it's not black or white there's potential a couple different scenarios here like one you've been dating him certainly long enough to express this to him but it's still relatively new where you don't have a great foundation it's not like

i've been dating this guy for a year and like we've had this like, you know, you're still gonna know each other and I'm not trying to freak you out here, but you say like it was pretty great at first and now it's slowly dwindled down. He could just be getting comfortable with who he really is and he still likes you, but he's just not good at showing it

or it is possible like maybe his feelings aren't as strong like the point is to charlene's point like now you're just guessing so you're just at the point you just have to find out and and be okay with whatever answer you get as hard as that might be also like kind of charlene's point it could just not be his love language i mean quite honestly you as you talk and charlene knows me, I can be this way sometimes. And I'm not a shy person. But especially when I meet new people, I sometimes get in my head and I forget to be as charming as I can be.

And I just don't know why I do it sometimes. And literally, sometimes I need friends like Charlene being like, hey, be human around these people. We have a lot of talks about this. And I'm like, yeah, okay, you're right. I should, okay, you're right. And then I am and it's fine. But like, I don't know why I do it sometimes.

I do and I've always been that way since as long as I can remember. I've met families of girlfriends and I've just decided to be quiet and closed off and very introverted. And she was like, what the fuck was that? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I've done that.

Right. And so, yeah, you just need to talk about it. And just make sure that you do it in a way that's not threatening, because I've had girlfriends kind of said, what the fuck was that? And my first reaction was to get defensive. You know, just be like, hey, you know, you just got to, you got to figure, and that's like Charlene said, like it's maybe not his love language. It is still early in this relationship. You guys still have some figuring out to do about one another, but you can't just guess, you know, and you can't make assumptions out of fear that you're going to lose your power or fear that you're going to like lose control of the

relationship. That's a slippery slope and a way to get into a potential toxic relationship or like, or get in a situation where you've been dating a guy for a year and a half and you have really no idea who he is or how he feels because you've made a lot of guesses and you're just afraid to like be vulnerable like that's that's no way to start a relationship so no that's valid i'm probably not giving him enough opportunity to express it either i guess then like me not asking the question is putting him into a corner really too yeah yeah just ask i mean i don't know what charlene has to think about how to approach it, but you could just like, hey, can I talk to you about something? Like, I mean, I get it. I do shit like this, too. But like, you did this, and I was curious. I'm like, I just, I'm only because I'm just curious. I want to make sure I understand you, you know, and if it's something

and then separately, if you're like, worried about like things having changed, just be like, hey, can I ask you a question? Like, like you know i kind of miss you doing stuff like this and i you know i don't know i like you and i like hearing that i you know when it comes to love languages there's what you need and there's what your partner needs and often those don't line up and that doesn't mean you can't be compatible but like you have to like i don't like gifts but if i date someone who's like i don't know i like gifts i'd be like well i better fucking get you a gift kind of thing even though like i don't need it and i don't like gifts, but if I date someone who's like, I don't know, I like gifts. I'd be like, well, I better fucking get you a gift kind of thing, even though I don't need it and I don't care. And it's not the way I like to express it, but that's what they want. And it's not about me.

Right. So you have to be able to, you both need to be able to find a common ground there. Okay. I gotcha. I relate really hard to this this one just for what it's worth and it really bugged me especially after i brought it up it never really changed it just was not his personality but when we got we got along really well but then it's a similar thing when he met my friends or family he was just very like he was sort of like the onus was always on the other person to strike up the conversation. You know what I mean? Yeah.

The comments from my family is like, Oh, he must be very shy. Or some people even think that it's him being conceited in a way. And I know that's not his approach. Like that is not him at all, but yeah, I relate to that way. I relate to it.

I can, I've been this person. Yeah. You know, it just, I don't know, sometimes it's a default thing. I will say this, if you handle it in a way that's positive and non-threatened, he will appreciate that you help him with this. Okay. If that's what it is, like we're making some assumptions here,

but if he is Charlene's ex and he is like, if he's doing it for reasons like I've done it before, he will appreciate that you help him not be that way. And you're not nagging or criticizing him and belittling him for being that way. He will appreciate it. You also might find as Charlene mentioned that like, this is who he is and you'reling him for being that way, he will appreciate it. You also might find, as Charlene mentioned, that like this is who he is and you're not necessarily okay with that

and that's not the type of connection you want and that's totally fine. Okay. And you have the right to leave that situation because again, like when it's been reminded, when it's pointed out that I do that, I don't like that I do that. And when certain people,

like when Charlene does it with me, I like, she does it in a way that I do that. I don't like that I do that. And when Charlene does it with me, she does it in a way that's like, okay, you're right. Thank you. And then I do better and I feel better for it. And that makes me feel good about myself. And it makes me feel good that I have friends like that. He might not be interested in changing at all i i don't know that's that's for you to like learn about this person but that's all part of the getting to know you process in a relationship okay no i get what you're saying okay yeah i suspect he does not know this is a problem for you at all yeah i think you're probably right but this is not it's not like an embarrassing like to be honest i think most women at least and i'm probably bad too but most women that i know anyway like you know want

want to feel like what we're giving is being reciprocated even if it's you know they're showing it in other ways like if he's not saying it to you then maybe you're just not going to process it the same way and like he just needs to be made aware of that it's his right honestly in this relationship true no i yeah i'm not giving him the opportunity so i need to ask him you seem like when we're talking you seem like you're thinking a lot about the situation right now and it seems like it's like it's bought like it's opened up a a can of emotions i'm curious why what yeah you just don't want to hurt someone's feelings either at the same time like i don't want to make him upset that he's not providing anything for me yeah but. But also like,

again, it's a balance. I, you're don't be too hard on yourself again. Like we all do things that sometimes we don't realize, or we can't help. And to Charlene's point, like she brought it up and he didn't change.

Like, this is all fine. He tried, but I ended up marrying a guy who was really effusive. Yeah. And I just don't think you need to feel a lot of guilt about this, right? Like, you know, you're here, you're talking to a couple of strangers, asking for, you give a shit, you care.

Like, you don't be so hard on yourself that, no damage has been done and i wonder if maybe you're feeling a little like guilt because you know your family's been critical and and you feel like if if this is like if he says to you what i'm saying to you you will almost feel guilty about it but like don't like it's totally fine i'm sensing this from you but like i don't i don't think you need to feel that bad and like i've my my life's fine right and like i've and like we all just get in ruts like sometimes we're just not our best selves and we don't know why we do things but he also has a responsibility to to do it too like you know just because sir like say like a friend like charlene points out to me it doesn't like, you know, just because like, say like a friend,

like Charlene points it out to me, it doesn't like, I don't know. And sometimes I need to do a better job on my own, you know, doing that. And, uh,

uh, that, you nailed it. Yeah. You nailed it. How I'm feeling about it. So it's a lot easier to talk to someone that doesn't know me or the relationship at all because they don't have any biases behind it but and not not to really not to confuse you though

but you know sometimes oftentimes i've been relationships and i've been you know family's been like i don't get this person then i want to defend that person and my family's right so like you know there's there's a balance there, but the important thing is you need to figure it out what that is. Right. Um, I don't think your family is trying to be critical or mean to him. You know, there's a, when people don't understand each other, um, they make a lot of assumptions. And so you're making assumptions, just try not to make assumptions and, and figure out whether he's your guy or not. And you know,

there's no, no damage has been done. Don't, don't feel too bad. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. All right.

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for calling. This is a, this is a great question and I wish you the best, but we, you know,

if you want to give us an update, we'd love to hear. Okay, for sure. Thank you. Good luck. All right. Take care. Okay.

Thanks, guys. Bye-bye. Bye. Yeah, that was a totally real great call. I mean, it was funny how you and I related on different spectrums or different sides. Yeah, I could tell she was getting really emotional about it. But she also had, and what I loved about her

is that she could readily admit that she has not given him the chance to prove her wrong or to change her mind about it. She really took responsibility in that. She seems very reasonable. Yeah. And it's 50 50 50 how it plays out yeah especially since it didn't really sound like she'd ever given like hints that like her family felt a certain way or her friends felt a certain way like it kind of depends how much she's been planting the seed up to this point yeah um my ex wasn't so his he spoke a little mandarin because he had lived in china um he was british and he was not able to tell me i was beautiful unless

he said it in mandarin like he could not just say you look so beautiful that level that's that's like he really struggled he always felt like it was. But I think part of it was a cultural difference. It was very British to be like, oh, that's so American and overt. Okay, that makes sense. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Well, the fact that you say he was British reminds me of Malcolm Gladwell's latest book. And the whole premise is this is around how we, like how we interact with people just has way more to do with like our

assumptions about who we are. And there's cultural differences, their age differences. There's so many like things that we, we just don't understand other people, even if we're in relationships with them, especially if like we're not willing to ask those questions because we're afraid to like lose our power yeah or if it doesn't even occur well i

feel like it doesn't even occur to a lot of people to ask those questions like they would feel more comfortable with their assumptions there's such a fine line between like when she said well i don't want to like lose my power like huge difference between saying what you want and what you expect in a relationship versus i love you so much just please tell me you love me like there's such a huge difference there yeah and um she doesn't seem like the type that could possibly say it the latter way anyway no but that's why you never know though you never know how people are in relationships you never never know. Well, Charlene, I really appreciate you coming on. This is, I, I, I knew it would be as great as it was. And it's, you know,

Charlene and I always have conversations like this in person and, and our brains often work the same way. It's how we became friends so fast by how we kind of perceive situations. And it's been a lot of fun to connect with you. So thank you for coming on. And as always, people, thank you for listening. We appreciate you calling in. Don't forget to check us out tonight and tomorrow for a recap of Listen to Your Heart.

And also on Wednesday, it's going to be a lot of fun. Thanks for listening.