The Viall Files - E124 Listen To Your Heart Recap ep 4 with Brett Vergara

Episode Date: May 5, 2020

Today we're joined by the hilarious Brett Vergara to recap the fourth episode of Listen To Your Heart. But first, they talk about Peter and Kelley's official announcement, the Clare and Matt James drama, and the reaction to Nick's comments about Madison. Then, they discuss how LTYH's Brandon is THE WORST and who they think will go home next week. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode! Thanks to our sponsors: BETTERMENT: https://www.betterment.com GRUBHUB: https://www.grubhub.com MODERN FERTILITY: https://modernfertility.com/viall/ HIDRATESPARK: http://hidratespark.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files listen to your heart recap and i guess turning into all things bachelor nation hot goss. We have a fun episode today. Bachelor superfan pundit Brett Vergara is our guest. I met Brett at a Bachelor event, and he was so infiltrated in Bachelor Nation. He's hilarious on Twitter with his live tweets and his memes and just a fun guy and, you know, very involved in Bachelor Nation. I thought he'd be a perfect guest to have on. And so he joins us to, you know, talk all things Bachelor Nation. We kind of get into a little bit of the drama from the episode of last week, you know,

updates on Peter Kelly, Madison, you know, the Matt James Claire. So, you know, whatever, fun to chat about. So whether you are listening to or watching Listen to Your Heart or you're just want to keep up on all the things bachelor nation, you are in luck today. Paul's here tomorrow. Make sure to check that out. You will love that episode. Great guy. Fun to talk to him. Very talented actor, comedian, writer. And we really appreciate Paul joining us. So make sure to check us out tomorrow. And without further ado, as Chris Harrison would say, let's listen to our hearts.

Brett, thanks for joining us. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. For those of you who don't know Brett, he is a, and quite honestly, there's a lot I don't know about Brett as a person, but I do know Brett as a very funny, entertaining Bachelor commentary, specifically on Twitter. He has some great memes, some great tweets. He's been around for a while and a fan of Bachelor Nation and has been so funny that followed by many people, cast members in Bachelor Nation, executives even, are big friends of Brett. And he's been covering it and giving his thoughts on the franchise for some time now.

But I'm curious, Brett, who are you? What do you do? And how did you get involved in Bachelor Nation? I mean, and I've met Brett before. But yeah, I'm curious about your background. I don't really know the answer to that. Yeah, no. So, well, one, I'm going to make you blush with all those kind words.

Thank you very much. No, well, the thing is, Suso, I've been a big fan of Bachelor for a good amount of time, but I'm definitely not a seasoned veteran by any means. My actual first season of watching any sort of Bachelor show was actually your Paradise season. What, 2016? Really? Yeah.

So you didn't even see Caitlyn's or Andy's? No. I've since gone back and seen, well, definitely clips, so just to have legacy information. But I've seen most of Caitlyn's. I haven't seen any of andy's so it'll actually be interesting with this uh what i don't know what their title is like i think it's like greatest of all time or best ever the the new bachelor still don't think you're gonna see any

of andy's but uh yeah yeah do you think no it just wasn't a very it wasn't a highly rated season so yeah i don't really know. Like how it'll be interesting how they how they do that, whether it'll just be like very selective moments from each season or if they highlight ones in particular. Who knows? But maybe I'll see more of you. Who knows? But yeah, no, like what context? Yeah.

Yeah. Right. But yeah. So like 2016 Paradise is my first go at it i was working for buzzfeed at the time but i wasn't even really doing anything entertainment related and i think that's like a big uh thing that a lot of people don't realize is like my actual my so my actual day-to-day job's more on the tech side. So at BuzzFeed, I was a community manager. So I was working with user-generated content.

Like a lot of, I don't know, kind of really similar to Ask Nick in a way. We would do a lot of these kind of crowdsourced Q&As, and people would share their experiences, and then we would feature that on BuzzFeed. So I was more on the editorial tech split there. And I was there for five years. And then now I do contract work for a tech company. I don't think I can actually say the company, which is why I'm dancing around that. It's a flex, though.

It's a little bit of a flex. SpaceX. It's SpaceX. That's it. That's it. So I do user experience by day. And then I'm just tweeting out memes by night. So it's a bit of a double life situation going on over here, I guess.

Yeah. Because it's funny. Because I thought you were like fully ingrained in like pop. Like I thought your job when I was like press in like pop like i thought your job when i like was like press and like pop culture specifically and then i kind of realized like no he's just someone who's just been like really passionate ever since he started watching it and has some pretty funny funny content so uh yeah yeah well i think props to you i think like with anything in life you you sort of lean into what's working so when i first started watching, there was no goal to become a Bachelor commentator by day.

But then I earnestly enjoyed the show. And I also just earnestly enjoyed how many people watched it. I'm such a social watcher of TV. So look at Game of Thrones. I love just being able to unpack an episode with people at work the next day or a whole bunch of friends or whatever. And I think Bachelor has this very unique position where if I run into someone, this is even before I got as invested as I am now, but if I run into someone at a party who watches Bachelor, we immediately have such this connection or this

like thing to talk about right away. And I don't think there's actually a ton of things that are as magnetizing as like watching something like Bachelor or Game of Thrones. Really, really is. I mean, I remember when Tyler was on Hannah Brown season and he was doing this kind of weekly run with people. And a weekly run with people and a lot of the people a lot of the women who who showed up uh were there for like a summer internship and they kind of talked about how they didn't have any friends and it was just their mutual love for the bachelor bachelorette which is you know a nice kind of melting pot type of thing you know and so it's those are kind of the charming and heartwarming stories that come

from uh being fans of the show or just having a common interest in bringing people together so yeah it's always kind of neat that way yeah and also too like i think for me too is like i got really invested because there's kind of two different ways you could watch the bachelor shows one is just like this is trash reality tv i'm just like having fun with it or you can just fully deep dive in it and kind of like explore the the greater cinematic universe of bachelor nation so you can start deep diving the reddit threads or like checking out the social media handles of everybody uh so you can kind of choose your own adventure in that way you seem to be keeping up uh on the kind of after show of bachelor nation of it all in terms of

you know people's social media accounts uh the tiktoks out there uh i've seen some of your tweets and memes and your excitement around that what are your thoughts going on with kind of bachelor nation um you know in the wild so to speak yeah i will say i'm very i'm very impressed with how especially in these very weird times we're currently in how bachelor has almost like taken it upon themselves to uh bring up drama just in their regular homes. It seems like every week there's still a headline or two that's Bachelor-related. So I'm pretty impressed with how everybody's been stepping up their game over here. Any thoughts of your own on specific events

that have gone on? Peter and yeah seem to be officially together so congrats to them if that's the case yeah well i'm i'm very we definitely have to unpack all of like peter kelly stuff because it's very official but also barb and i'm forgetting pete's dad's name is it is it pete is it literally just pete i think he's junior yeah I think it is yeah yeah so I saw they both did some some public like hey Kelly and Peter are together and I saw Barb even did a pic collage of Kelly and Peter together which is uh I don't know I'm trying to think of like how I feel about all that like I'm ultimately happy for them and I think it's it is kind of fun that we've never had this type of progression of events with another lead before where it's really, it's been to like, all right, it's like one person, then it's like this other person. And then like, oh, that looked a little iffy. And then, oh, it's that person again. It's like, yeah, now it's another person. You know, it's like yeah now it's another you know it's pretty impressive but you know i don't fault

it and i really like kelly i think the only thing that i was initially apprehensive of is like when they it didn't really look like they were following like social distancing stuff you know like so stressful right yeah that that like but they weren't the only ones to be clear i mean if we're gonna criticize them they they weren't the only ones who to be clear. I mean, if we're going to criticize them, they weren't the only ones who were quarantined and TikTok-ing with other people in Bachelor Nation. Yeah, yeah. And all of this gets gray, for sure. I think something like Twitter or Instagram,

when you're doing your commentary around all that stuff, it's easy to lean into hyperbole. And I think a lot of people don't necessarily realize that also, that Twitter is just very dramatic as a platform. Totally. Hydrate Spark, my favorite water bottle to help me stay hydrated. Yeah, I've been doing a few things to keep it easy, like working out, doing sit-ups, vacuuming my rug,

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The, oh yeah. So like Matt, Matt James, Claire, I actually, I actually almost like got myself in trouble with that. Cause I saw Claire, not, not like really, but you know, I saw Claire tweet out that whole thing of like, oh yeah, these people who are doing cameos and, uh, you know, just trying to like take advantage of of uh you know being on my season without and having even started yet like not there for the right reasons blah blah so kind of like without thinking and i guess there's always this is a lesson to be

learned and like maybe have all your information before you just tweet out a take i was like oh yeah get them claire not knowing who she was referencing at all or like what the context was around it um why does that change oh what is it why does that change your perspective did you have some of matt james stands come after you oh for sure absolutely but the reason it changes my perspective but oh go ahead i'm sorry go ahead i was just gonna say like i think specifically with that context mattered you know because, because at its surface, it was a contestant doing a cameo. If you were to just hear that, it's like, oh, yeah, that's kind of slimy. But then you realize, oh, it's Matt, who's like a little bit of an exception because he's not he had like a platform before.

I think he is. Yeah, a little. It depends on the circumstances but i think the circumstances make this a little bit more gray because one he had a little bit of a a name before all this just being adjacent to to tyler there um but i think the thing that's actually more relevant is that it was for charity so it's like hard to it's i don't know i think it's hard i could be reading it wrong i i don't know i think it's hard i could be reading it wrong i i don't know but after it's funny because i had a similar reaction to you

right like i saw it i was like good for you that's funny good for you claire now granted i think looking back uh i think they were both foolish i don't think i think claire should have just probably not have tweeted that you know um i mean i get why she did but like she didn't help herself out and kind of created a shit storm but in fairness to claire i mean i get like in terms of uh you know his foundation and what he wants to do that's all great you know you're tyler's friend that you have a right to that, but he got casted on The Bachelorette, you know, and so, and then they went in quarantine and he signed a contract and certainly a lot of upside there. It also seemed as far as the charity stuff, like I could have been misreading it, but like some people sent me some of those, like,

like they're like, oh, what about this or this video? And it comes across that he said it was charity after the fact because his buddy who he said he was in a charity with posted on his story was like, we never talked about it, but like, sure, fuck it, we'll go to charity. That's how I came across. I don't know if that was actually the case, but I think regardless, even if it's for charity, I don't think, listen, at the end of the day, if you're going to go on the bachelor bachelorette, like, you know, we talk about like right reasons and like, from Claire's point of view, I'm simply saying as someone who is the lead, there is a genuine fear now more than ever that the people aren't really there to meet you, right? And there is a genuine desire,

whoever the lead is, for this to work out. And it might be true that none of the people who go on the show are there, in fact, for the lead. That might be true, right? But you got to be careful to not make it so obvious, right? And just because Matt James is there for his charity, which is nice if that's the case, that still doesn't mean he's there for Claire. And it still comes across like just because, you know what I'm saying? Like that's a really, this is ABC food tours. Awesome thing he did. That's great. Being Tyler's friend. Great. But I can guarantee you that the good people at the Bachelor franchise and the producers, when he was making these TikToks videos with Tyler, reached out to him and said,

slow your roll, like play the long game, fly under the radar. You're not helping yourself. And he clearly didn't listen. And it's safe to say he probably got he started feeling himself a little bit, you know, getting all this press with Tyler and things like that. And it kind of came back to bit him in the butt. And again, like that doesn't mean like you're doing stuff for charity, like that's great and, and good for him. But if you're gonna go on the show, you need to at least come across as like, not immediately starting to take advantage

of the opportunities the show brings you. And you want to be tyler's sidekick and tyler's friend then go do that but he i don't know like listen i he's put it this way it seems almost impossible for them to cast him at this point and that's because i yeah yeah i mean especially because like she's made such a statement i mean i still really do want to see him because i do like him on there but i i mean it might even turn into a plot point essentially like if they kept him uh i don't know if i don't know if they can i mean when i first i i met matt and ty at the same time and when i met matt i was like you got to go on man you got to go on the show like he would be perfect uh he kind of and like, he kind of, his response almost seemed like he was subtly shading Claire, being like, for those of you who don't know, I'm doing this for charity.

Ha ha ha. And it kind of got some of his, like, you know, Matt James stans. And like, you know, Tyler has a very cult-like following, and they're very passionate and going to defend Matt, as you witnessed. As a result, it became Matt versus Claire. Listen, at the end of the day, Claire's a bachelorette. You've got to protect your lead. And I just don't think they could.

Yeah, that's a plot point. And let's say Matt James goes on the show. All the press is going to be writing about this feud and drama. And it's just going to put Claire in a very vulnerable position. I don't know if the show really wants to kick off the season that way. Also, like we want Claire to be bold and we want her to speak up, right? We want her to like, the same reason we liked hannah brown we want her to do that and indirectly you're kind of um punishing her for speaking up you know if uh if you are forcing her to have to you know face matt james and his army of fans yeah it'd It'd be a challenge. I do think it's interesting too. I mean, because I do agree with the idea that, okay, like you sign up for this.

So, you know, like you know not to take advantage of the opportunities it might present like quite yet. But it's also interesting now that we're in this really abstract, weird time where I think a lot of them were comfortable with the fact like, okay, I have two months to wait where I can just, you know, bunker down and, you know, not lean into like the bachelor world all that much. But now it is this weird thing where it's like, okay, everybody knows. I think they're actually going to run into more of an issue with, thing where it's like okay everybody knows i think they're actually going to run into more of an issue with you know claire and all these all these guys have access to social media and they can look up

each other and and i think that's going to pose a bigger complication actually i think that's fine i think probably the show needs more of that um that's why bachelor in paradise is such a disaster though yeah i don't know like i just i don't know i mean like it just depends on how much what claire's doing right but i still think i still think it would be fine if the lead knew a little bit or at least something about uh their their their suitors going in you know you know? I think it's fine. But as far as like, you know, the Matt James or other Claire's guys, it's just kind of my general thought

on Bachelor Nation people in general. It's just like, we're very quick to enjoy the light, the limelight, right? And when you shine a light on yourself, whether it's for charity or not, like you have a bigger spotlight in yourself. And regardless, charity or not, like you're, you have a bigger spotlight on yourself and regardless, fair or not, you're always going to get some sort of criticism. Like anytime you shine a light on yourself, you know, for example, like the things I said about Madison last week,

shined a light on myself. I had an opinion. I had a strong opinion. I had people support me. I certainly had a lot of Madison stans, not like what I said. I put that out there, right? Just like Madison put out that TikTok video, there's no way she can put that out and not expect some people to disagree with her, right? You can't put a light on yourself and then expect not to be criticized at all. And you gotta, and I think that's sometimes what people have to learn. You gotta be very careful. Like, and it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong.

It just means that you're opening yourself up for criticism if you are gonna do things. You know, Matt James, for example, like that's great he has a charity, but he's been using his publicity to promote his charity. Fine, totally great. I understand that. But you are shining a light on yourself

and you might be doing it a little too early than, you know, you otherwise should because it's, he could have been an absolute star in Bachelor Nation. He might not even get a chance. I don't know what they're going to do, but, you know, and I'm sure his fans will be like, he doesn't need the Bachelor anyway. It's like, well no one needs it no one needs it right but but being um and at his own star and who knows he could have been the first um bachelor who was a person of color first black bachelor you know you never know i mean that's we're getting way ahead of ourselves but let's say that was the case oh my god he's he's a legend in in bachelor nation you know so who knows you know well it's also it's also kind of like an interesting uh factor when you start thinking

kind of how incestuous bachelor is is in general but also is becoming with like there's always like this contestant uh has like this friend who's going to be on next season. I think we've had at least like three arcs of that. You know, you had like the Hannah's, well, like Hannah G. Hannah Ann. Hannah Ann. You know, so that's also. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think they should do a little less of that. It gets. Yeah. Because I could actually see how, you know, if Matt James was like his own separate entity, how it would be a lot more. He could probably be like, OK, it probably isn't the best move for me to do this. But since it was hitched to Tyler, he probably felt like he could get away with it a little bit more.

Sure. But I think that thing, too. But I think the operative thing that you said is he felt like he'd get away with it. Like, again, like it was kind of the excuse, not the reason. And again, I know he was, I mean, I don't, it's, I'm confidently can say that he was just like, hey, you should stop doing this. And he kept doing it, you know? And again, like he didn't have to put The Bachelor on his cameo profile. Like, again, probably he didn't have malicious intentions but it's just

like think man like think how that might come across and just because he has loyal fans who are very loud and very dedicated to defending him doesn't mean it's still a good look you know overall and so i think sometimes uh people can make that mistake but it would be interesting to see how that plays out because all in all minus that crap, I think he would have been – it was a great cast. I was looking forward to watching him and seeing how that might play out. He's way too young for her. I don't know.

That's my opinion. It would have never worked. Well, I mean, listen. That's not really the point. I mean, that's the thing is – Yes, it is. It's the point of The Bachelor. I agree it should be. But the thing is yes it is it's the point of the bachelor i agree it should be but the reality is unfortunately they're not i mean i think

that's why i would like to see them change but there's a lot i mean there's a lot of variables that go into it but uh there's half half it's i think it's conservative to say half the people who are casted on any season aren't really there. For the right reasons. No, not even for the right reasons. Like, from a producer standpoint, they're not even there for, you know what I'm saying? They're there for the show. Yeah, they're not there. They're not.

Yeah, right. They're not there for, like, true compatibility. You know, they need some wild cards that are just personalities. Yeah. Like, you know, the Waboom guy. They didn't cast him because they thought, you know, he was going to end up with Rachel. God bless him. What's he up to these days?

I don't know. I don't know. Do you have any – before we get into Listen to Your Heart, do you have any – are you a Maddie stan? Are you a – where do you fall in line? Was I too hard on her? I had some – yeah, it was interesting. I did not think it would blow up as much as it did in terms of.

Yeah, I was, I was seeing a good, good amount of press coverage around that, that little moment. No, I wouldn't say I'm a, I, I'm very, I think I mostly agree with you. I probably wouldn't have said it the way you did because, but that's also because I'm a generally a peacekeeper over here. know I try to I try to stay out of feuds yeah you're getting all right so I think we're we're different in that way but I do agree with what uh you said as far as like yeah it is kind of weird that we just brushed off the whole like Instagram comment thing and then we're just kind of like letting her get away with it and I even remembered my whole opinion on it at the time was uh you know, I liked her as a contestant, especially before things just really went off the rails. And it got probably, you know, admittedly more complicated as far as like, who are you believing and all this, all these feuds that you lose track of. But I, yeah, I did think it was kind of weird that we just like let that one go and i was a little bit uh more willing to because i was like well i like her so

i don't want to like bash all of my favorites here but i still like her but you know i just still how i felt about you know i think that this where it's fraud it's just like listen this is a podcast we're going to give our opinions it's's so funny. We live in this age where like, if you criticize someone, it must mean you hate them or something, you know, where it's just like, I don't, but that's how I feel about that particular topic. Most of us probably ended up with our bank the same way we ended up with our friends in elementary school. They were the closest to home or our parents chose them for us. And keeping that bank and those friends works fine for a while. But at some point, you realize there's more out there.

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I think there's definitely something murky going on for like everybody in involved. I mean, we were talking, you were talking about, uh, uh, Kelly and the super bowl thing and all that. And I don't, I don't even focus so much on that, but what I'm more get, uh, really drawn to is like, why does, why do Peter's parents love Kelly so much? Like, how did that happen? Because it's not like a normal level of of like, oh, yeah, like I like Kelly on the show. Like she I remember Barb commenting on Kelly's Instagram, like, oh, like we got to go shopping sometime. She's the best. And then you think of like Kelly getting invited to the, to after the final rose. And I don't know, it makes me feel like there,

there might be like truth to, you know, some of like what Maddie was saying is like, when were like certain conversations happening? Cause it seems like there was maybe development in that relationship when there maybe shouldn't have been, but I'm not really, what are your thoughts? Yeah. I don't know. know well here a couple i have a couple thoughts on that is barb did not invite kelly to afr she doesn't have that power despite you know where her seemingly influence on the world so that was not barb's call yeah but uh maybe the producers knew that he had a thing with kelly and they were thinking alternate timeline. He might pick. I've had enough of conversations with producers off the record that there

just isn't the conspiracy theory when it comes to that, that is going on that, that, that fan suggests Kelly wasn't involved with after the, with the women tell all ultimately because they thought she would have a negative influence on the other women, and she wouldn't have anything to offer from a TV standpoint, right? Kelly was one of those cast members that didn't fully embrace the show, and that can be a challenge for the producer sometimes, especially when you

are a bit of a role model to some of the other cast members and they look up to you. And Kelly's not the first person that's happened on my season. Some women were like, I probably was more into than others, but ultimately I was like, I'm not going to end up with them. And what they did in the house was like constantly, you know, like tell the other women like this is crap don't listen to them like which is like fine but like they they were just you know they weren't embracing it and like it's like did you show up like you know this this it is what it is like it's a it's a it's a show so stop like just stop doing that right that's why she wasn't at Women Tell All. So Kelly still had her fans. So again, with all the speculation of what was going to happen at AFR, the first unspoiled season,

it makes a lot of sense to just throw Kelly in the audience, spotlight her in the beginning of the show, and just build up even more anticipation of all the scenarios that can play out. Like that is why she was there. It's not because Barr reached out to the producers and said, by the way. So, you know, I don't know. But like, listen, I tend to believe like it's not that hard to. And here's what I also I'll say this. I don't really get is that the only one who really has a reason to gripe for me and the

one who was really wrong is Hannah Ann. She got engaged to Peter, right? That was very real for her. Meanwhile, so Madison's on the show. Peter seems to be leaning in his hearts with Madison. Madison waits all season to drop some pretty big bombs, right? And then like, kind of like doesn't leave shames peter like and listen i was actually supportive of her like you know standing up for what she believes in her you know

and i that's fine that she did that and in defense to madison the timing in which she left might not have been totally her call there's some obviously production elements that go in but then she ultimately left right she leaves she does her thing peter breaks up with hannah and chris comes down and hangs out with madison that's not madison's call either right so like but madison goes along with it right and then peter is just like well we decided not to meet in person we thought we'd wait to add for the final rose and the more i'm hearing about this is it sounds like madison's like i don't think we should meet and peter's like okay sure we should not like you've

convinced me right so either way there's no relationship really there they decide to like not they talk but they're not meeting up why aren't they meeting up like well like if you were like wanted to give it a shot why wouldn't you like fly out and meet up now we've we've come to learn that you know madison has these very rigid beliefs, which is fine about, she doesn't want to put her in that smart. Like if you don't want to do any overnight stuff, don't put yourself in a situation where you might have to compromise that and make it difficult. I get that.

So then they go on AFR. They have that drama with Barb. They're not, were they ever even back together? You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah yeah yeah it definitely seemed like there was a little bit of uh uh like building up of something that didn't even exist on exactly right so like and then my guess is like and we don't know and peter's like there's more to the story it's just like they never were really together right and so and listen i i thought madison handed herself really well in afr considering what she

had to face with with barb it was a total mess then her and peter talk or whatever but all of a sudden i just don't get this whole like you know madison being wronged in the sense of like she left peter then she kind of came back and like drops these like more like hey by the way i can't do x y and z and f and m and whatever and like so i probably i don, hey, by the way, I can't do X, Y, and Z and F and M and whatever. And like, so I probably, I don't think we're compatible. And so they decide not to move forward. So I guess I just don't get all this like, what was their relationship?

So like, meanwhile, then Peter starts talking to Kelly. I mean, I don't, I just don't think that like all this, I don't, here's what I'm confident. I don't think Peter was faking his relationship with, with an interest in Madison while two timing with Kelly. Like he might've ran into her, he might've saw her at a party. And then afterwards when he met, like he started talking to Kelly, you know, like that's, that's entirely possible. And also, even if he was talking to Kelly, like what was he like what were him and madison anyways i don't think anything yeah yeah i think that's more like where i feel

comfortable with it is is really thinking back on it and realizing yeah there probably wasn't even really a relationship there so there wasn't even really one to uh to kind of like betray it away because i i just really don't think that they were even really talking and they were even giving it a shot. And I do think they had to address it in some way and probably make it so it wasn't a bit of like a dud burger for the finale where it's like, oh yeah, we just haven't been talking

and then scene. And then that's like the final glimpse of our season. They wanted to give something there. Yeah, no, so I just think it probably is easier to like swallow like Peter and Kelly talking, knowing that there probably really wasn't anything going on with Maddie at that point. Yeah, and I think that's probably why I've been, I've defended Peter just because, again, he's made a lot of mistakes and he was sloppy and he did these things wrong. But listen, my personal opinion is that Madison has been taking advantage of the criticism that Peter's gotten and to her benefit a little bit more than is authentic.

What has she done, though? She did one TikTok video and one authentic what is what has she done though she did a one tiktok video in one interview what else well those those were big things right like she did a tiktok she did an interview with caitlin saying um how like peter was reaching out to her and missing her and like implying that like he was he was she was subtly suggesting that you know she got the reaction i think she knew she would get by suggesting that there was some gray areas in Peter's actions. You know,

that seems pretty clear. And again, the Tik TOK video, like she knew what she was doing. She knew the reaction she would get. And it's also funny. I think the Tik TOK, I think the Tik TOK thing was like kind of overblown a bit.

That's how I feel. Yeah. Just like playful. It's like, it's like, yeah, yeah. It's like, guys,

y'all are being like way too stressed about all of this. I think the interview is different because that was like a lot. And there was a lot of, you know, accusations kind of thrown towards Peter and Kelly in that respect. Where's like, okay, that's actually,

let me, let me, let me ask you this, right? You think the TikTok videos, videos like first of all i want to point out that i think the tiktok video was funny it was clever uh and it was definitely still catty for them like it was obvious their intention i have no problem with it whatsoever but do you really think that if you were make if you were madison and you were making that tiktok

video uh uh and you knew that it was directed towards someone you dated in the spot who was getting criticism do you really think that when they saw that it would hurt their feelings you know what I'm saying do you think the peter reaction yeah I think it's different

levels for sure I mean I don't disagree that if they saw the tiktok it's like oh yeah I mean it's the same thing like i've had like my own little twitter spats where it's like i was very much being like playful on twitter you know it's a lot different to kind of uh i don't lean into a joke or like kind of tongue-in-cheek do a meme about something versus doing a whole interview where you're essentially dragging both of their character and so again let's just recap matt madison went with alt got all of peter's uh girls she asked other women who said no i know that to be true uh you know strong candidates and then picks a song that says like i don't know what was it like i we could have... I think it's, I can take it, yeah. I can take it, man, if I want to.

There it is. Yeah, and again, this is funny, but let's not pretend... That's just like an anthem. It's just a single girl anthem, okay? Okay, well, she didn't have any of her, like, friends that weren't on her season that are single. I'm just saying, let's not pretend she didn't know what she was doing.

I'm just saying, like, it was obvious of what she was doing, and it's obvious that, like, it might hurt Peter's feeling, and I'm fine with it, but I just, like I just saying, like, it was obvious of what she was doing. And it's obvious that, like, it might hurt Peter's feeling. And I'm fine with it. But I just, like I was saying, she didn't mean it just as a joke. And she certainly loved the coverage. And all I'm saying is, again, if you're going to put things out there, again, I'm fine with it.

I think it's totally fine. But that's still, like, taking advantage of the situation. And, like, you know, some fan commented like, where's Kelly? And she's like, with our ex. Like, again, funny response. Got no problem with it. But you are like, that's going to affect. Like, listen, I'm a snarky guy.

I make comments like, you know what I'm saying? Like I and sometimes people get pissed off at it. I get that, you know, and I do that knowing that that could happen. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just simply saying, like, I'm aware of it. Let's not pretend. Don't play dumb. And that's why I get critical of bachelor people who are like, again, they're very, very crafty in kind of their message. And then when it's just like, when someone criticized, they're like, oh, well, I didn't mean it as a joke. And then, but someone says something about them and they're like,

how dare them like talk about, you know, it's just like, all right, stop. But again, I think the TikTok video was funny. It's fine.

I do ultimately think like the TikTok video wasn't calculated or maybe like a small degree of calculated, but then the interview was very calculated as far as like what message was being sent out uh yeah i guess i do disagree with you on i think they were both just as calculated and i know like i said other people were asked where it was like and they said no because their impression was they knew what they were doing and they were like i don't want to be a part of that was the reaction. So anyways, should we get into listen to your heart, Brett? Let's do it.

I'm what are your thoughts on this new Bachelor spinoff? So I really like it, but I'm really bummed that more people aren't watching. I'm kind of like mad at Bachelor nation for thinking that they're like too good for this, you know, like, cause it would be, it would be so much more fun if everybody who's watching all the other, uh, parts of the franchise were on board with this. Cause like, yeah, like I've been having a lot of fun with it and I think it's different and I have absolutely nothing better to do, which is the wild part to me is Are people just watching The Office instead of giving this a try? I don't really get that. Yeah, I don't know. I'm having fun with it.

I agree with you. I think there's a mentality of people don't want to give it a shot because it's like anything else. You're just like, I don't want to like this because i don't think it's like i already like everything else they're doing uh and it seems like yeah because like all in all ultimately is this another entertaining bachelor show right and also too like there's certain people that i talk to where you know when you're in every season every lead every contestant for that matter, will have some sort of critique that you can find or some sort of thing that you don't like about it.

But something that I hear a lot is like, oh, it just becomes so, you know, incestuous, which is fair. You know, it's become like very rotational and there's no like brand new people that are really being introduced as far as like a lead. people that are really being introduced as far as like a lead or, or like everybody who is signing up for it is very like in the, in the bachelor know-how and in like the bachelor culture, whether you see a friend of a friend who's on or whatever. So a common thing I hear is like, they should just get like random people like clean slate. This gave us that, you know,

we have people who are doing a completely new experience for the most part while it will share elements of bachelor in general it is a lot it's it is different i mean we're seeing chris harrison handing out roses and it works entirely different plus i think it's a lot less polished which i really really like i really like that the contestants kind of knew what they signed up for but also didn't really and i just kind of believe them more and that's not even uh that's not even like a criticism of contestants on the other franchise i just think they feel like the stakes might be higher but with them they're just like i don't know what we're signing up for here it's six episodes i don't know which is i uh i agree with you and it's funny because i do think

that's something that is hurting the show that they don't have any anchors you know it's just like there's no storyline for people who initially tune in to give it a shot you know what i'm saying like for example let's say they casted jed right right? There are people who would tune in just out of sheer curiosity to see what happens with Jed because he was such a prominent character on Hannah season. And then their people would have from then kind of got to know the rest of the people and like started to like, you know, Rudy and Matt and Ryan

and, you know, all these other people. people. So that that's, it's funny. I agree with you. And it's funny. It's, it's, what's kind of, I think hurt them a little bit in terms of what's going on. I also think people are just kind of streaming and they're not like watching network television as much. Yeah. And you think about like the people who aren't, I think you think about like people who aren't on Twitter. And this is actually something that I have to remind myself on is there's millions of people who are watching this just to just for the sake of watching it or just for the sake of, oh, it'll be, you know, fun to watch this and then talk about it with my coworkers Tuesday morning. But that vibe isn't really happening as much. So maybe that's one reason they don't really feel like they need to watch this.

Yeah. You don't have people to download with the next day. Yeah. Unless you want to set up like a zoom call. It's like, okay, this is going to be when we talk about listening to your heart. It just,

that same opportunity doesn't exist. Yeah. Totally. I like this episode though. I thought it was fun. I thought this was, I thought this was the best episode that we've had. I agree.

I, I didn't love episode three, you know, like episode three, the first half, it kind of like lost me a little bit, but this episode I think was a really strong rebound from episode three. What do you think lost you in episode three?

Here's what i think what happened is i think again they're they have what six episodes so they're trying to figure out the show as it goes while also trying to like you know create storylines but i felt like in the effort of creating storylines they kind of forced this moment of like you know because they had these new people show up and then they had the core audience which like over the course of paradise there's a little more time to like bring in new people and create new drama but there just wasn't enough time to do that so like you had these new people who were like not any part of the show and then like and then chris harrison had you know that classic well now's the time to really like

focus on these relationships. It just felt a little early and a little forced and that kind of, I get why they did that, but it just seemed a little off to me. Yeah. And like, I, yeah. And I think too, like, it's a lot different with this show because on Paradise, even if you show up really late, you have people who are potentially like, oh, I'm waiting for nick to come by or whatever like they have this this knowledge that there's a chance that you might show up but these other people don't have the same luxury and also they're sending home some gems like i know that you talked about her last week but like why did no one give mariana a chance i have no i do

not understand why we did not hear from her it's safe to say she just didn't talk while there, but yeah, totally. I mean, gorgeous, right? Yeah. And also too, another thing I didn't really get is, like, I'm kind of forgetting exactly who went home last week, but I remember there was Ruby, I think. And I thought it was interesting, like, when the current person that you were talking to wasn't reciprocating back like look at uh gabe for example uh when the first when the person you're talking to isn't reciprocating

that's like that's it like yeah they just like go back into the house yeah right like can gabe like go talk to mariana or something like just give her five minutes you know it just it was so quick. They don't even let you get your shoes. It's like, all right, nope. Your car is right over there. Bring him back, by the way. I love him. Yeah, he was great, but he probably, you know, he wasn't interesting TV. You know, I think sometimes we forget that as a very sweet, said a nice nice thing wasn't engaging with anyone all that much. Like, it didn't seem like any of the women were really feeling them. And he wasn't also like,

you know, like the only way to get by if you're not engaging in relationships, whether you're not putting yourself out there, or you're just not getting any love from other people is to like, kind of commentate, right? To be the witty snarky person and that wasn't him right and and good for him like he seems like a really you know uh nice sweet guy uh but that's not what makes great tv and so there was just not a not a place for him uh i do love the like what temptation island kind of uh you know that was real dark oh yeah that was great all in an effort to like really um vet out the the savannah and julia and was it brandon brandon drama yeah brand yeah right right i mean like yeah like they force all these other people to go on dates for this

like yeah sure whatever man We'll go ahead But like we're not But which was great I love the Temptation Island callback I thought that was really clever I loved that wrinkle It was just so funny I was actually expecting

Jamie and Trevor And Ryan to have more of like a thing So like that got resolved so quickly yeah i mean because i knew i knew they pulled chris and i was like okay like yeah chris is all of a sudden gonna like start uh hooking up with uh rudy there um but yeah like i thought that they were at least gonna address it a little bit more there was gonna be like some i ultimately know that she's way more interested in trevor clearly but But I thought there was going to be some leaning into it for the drama. But it's just like, nope, we're just pals.

All right, cool. About Julia, Brandon, and Savannah. And it was like, and they just did that to not make it seem so obvious, even though it was obvious, which is fine, right? Right. Brandon is the worst. What a dickhead? Brandon is the worst. What a dickhead. Brandon is the worst.

He's an abs... He's a professional gaslighter. Oh, my... I mean, it's so funny. He's just... It's like, listen, I... Listen, sweetie. Listen, you're right.

There's so much to say. You're right. It's like, you're right, sweetie. I probably could have done better. Listen, I didn't really know how to handle you being psychotic and crazy, but you're right. There's so much. You're right. It's like, you're right, sweetie. I probably could have done better. Listen, I didn't really know how to handle you being psychotic and crazy, but you're right. I am sorry for not realizing just how insane you are, and I could have done better. It's just amazing how he just slips that in there every time.

You know who he really, there was a few moments he was giving me flashbacks, even though I didn't watch it back then. But I've been watching clips. He reminds me of Juan Pablo a little bit where someone will be just like pouring out their emotions. And he's like, OK, that's OK. That's OK. Cool. Yeah. And then it just makes it all the more maddening because that's what really gets me going is if I'm clearly upset by some by something or something that happened. And then the other person is just minimizing it.

He's just such a condescending dick. I think top five worst guys ever on The Bachelor. Oh, and I just do not understand it at all. No, you really wanted him on The Bachelorette. I don't know if he's good looking enough to be. Yeah, especially when he sings he is i think everybody else has like a fairly okay singing face but he just like always looks constipated like it just really like you know no like it worked in this format but like if he went on

the bachelorette like it only works if the if the leads into him right because then he's like a focal point and then then he would just get in so much trouble but yes i agree with rochelle he's he sucks he's the worst and like it's just he's so passive-aggressive and he's so yeah he's very condescending and just you know the sweeties the sweeties is like the the worst of his offensive things where it's just like he just turns it around so quickly on anyone who like is really, you know, expressing their emotions. And he's just like, well, even like right before they went on stage and Julia is just like, well, hey, I heard this thing. He's like, we've had a great day.

I mean, except for your like freak out. But everything has been great. It's just like, wow, you can't help yourself. And he literally at the table said that, that he wished Savannah was still there. At the table right next to her. I know. That was like psychotic to me. Like just even like the fact that he thinks it or the fact that he stands by that is one thing.

But the fact that he would have like the damn moxie to be like, oh, she's standing right here. But I think I can get away with mouthing this. And like, that's fine. Like that is crazy behavior. It's crazy. You know, it is. And what's great to your, in what you mentioned, I think no matter if you are familiar with the show or not,

you forget, but Brandon truly didn't watch the show. And so he's really kind of operating under this innocence of like, not fully realizing that everything he's saying is being recorded. You know what I'm saying? Like he really, you can tell he's really just being himself because, uh, I think if he went back on, he would be a little bit more careful with the things he said. because he's not a dumb guy but i think he just doesn't realize how you know how they're able to piece it all together so to speak and i will say about about brandon uh this is like where again i get frustrated with the rest of bachelor nation who's not watching because i think what makes what makes like the show so entertaining is like

the cringe moments even if they are painful like they're ultimately what keeps people coming back and you know i guess i guess the love a little bit but like not as much um and like this is just right for it whether you have to listen to painful performances or you have people who aren't being as calculated in what they're saying or they just aren't as aware that everything that they're saying is going to come back to bite them in the ass. This has that aplenty. So it really is surprising that people aren't on board.

Yeah, well, they haven't given it a shot as much. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't go back and watch it on Hulu or wherever it's available if it is for some time. Do we still put Hulu or wherever it's available if it is for some time. Do we still think Julia's the villain or is it now Brandon? Oh, well, Brandon's clearly the villain. It's way more Brandon.

I think Julia... That doesn't excuse Julia. This has that aplenty. I think Julia's more stigmatized by Brandon at the moment. She's just so into him that it's just like complete blinders where it's like, welligmatized by Brandon at the moment. She's just so into him that it's just like complete blinders where it's like, well, Brandon said that

this is what happened, so I'm gonna completely throw Savannah under the bus or just anyone else. Natasha, anyone who has anything bad to say about Brandon is the villain. They're immature. How dare they? It's like, it doesn't occur to her that what's being said might have some truth to it.

I totally agree. I kind of give Julia a pass too. Like, I mean, she has cystic fibrosis. Like, she shouldn't give a fuck about what anyone else wants, right? She should just go after what she wants. And like, you're right. The digmatize, I think, is a great way of describing it. I don't think she has...

Brandon is clearly just a dick, and he is outwardly manipulative, and he's playing every... He's just like... I don't know. At least Julia is sincere that she likes Brandon. And while she might be doing things that don't necessarily come across as like the best or maybe is, is empathetic to everyone around her. This, it's all coming from a place of going after what she wants, following her heart, you know, not here to make friends. Yeah. And it's a tough situation too.

Like I'm a big believer in like when you think about dating, right? Like obviously the first thing that comes to mind when you're thinking about getting rejected, getting rejected sucks. But also rejecting people sucks. That actually is something that I think about in my dating experience. I would much rather get hurt than hurt someone else. And I really don't look forward to that experience. So she knows ultimately that she's not into Sheridan. So she's kind of, she knows ultimately that she's not into Sheridan, but she just, I don't think like wants to, I don't know, like fully let him go because Brandon's being so fucking all over the place that it's kind of putting her in a weird spot too.

That breakup with Sheridan was strange because she was like, he was like, okay, I've got it done. She's like, didn't want him to, she wanted him to fight for her more, or I don't know. Listen, she just didn't want to have sex with him. I love when she's going home and she's just like, you know, Sheridan made me realize I want qualities that he has, which honestly isn't new to Julia. It's just like the last part is like, but I also want to have to have sex.

I want to want to have sex with him. Like, that's what was missing. She wasn't into and like you can't listen that's not a there's plenty of women i'm sure want to have sex with sheridan but julia wasn't one of them and you know it doesn't matter how sweet they are and like the sheridan's like i'm more nice guy and whatever i will say in this this might be a bit of a controversial opinion but i wasn't liking even some of the stuff that sheridan was saying like that whole like oh you know she has to go for more of like the dicks like not a nice guy like me i whenever someone describes themselves as a nice guy i i i totally agree i don't i i i totally agree with you, right? Because when you like someone a lot,

and whether they say it or you know it, or you sense it that they might not like you as much, you tend to be like super nice and outgoing. And by default, you're the nice guy. Or the human nature in you, like if you kind of like someone, you feel like they like you, and maybe you have a wall up because then you come across as a little bit of a dick to that person, right? And that's kind of the natural ebbs and flows of relationship, right?

So I totally agree that Sheridan playing the old, like, woe is me, poor guy. Like, again, Brandon might be a dick in this scenario. But, yeah,, like calm down, buddy. Sheridan. I also don't necessarily think that Sheridan had as much to go off of like blatantly calling Brandon a dick, even though we've clearly learned he is,

but I don't know if Sheridan was getting like the full picture, like the full behind the scenes look that we were. So I think there, there almost was even more of like an overreaction of like oh yeah well she's just gonna date all those jerks you know because that's what no one likes the nice guy so like you know and i was like listen the thing to do is uh you know it very much sucks when someone you like isn't interested in you and had my fair share of experiences but the thing to do isn't like to bash the shit out of the person and just be like well she's just like an idiot and has to date wrong people um yeah it's it's

just you acknowledge it sucks and you i totally agree yeah i i totally totally agree uh i also want to point out uh that you know when savannah went home uh she said a lot in her kind of confessional in the car which which to be honestly, raised some red flags for me. And maybe she should go back and listen. First of all, Savannah, you don't want to find a love that keeps you up at night. That's not great. I want to sleep. Like, first of all, like, you know, like, yeah, it was almost like, listen i i kind of i get what she meant but at

the same time it's almost like i think sometimes we get confused by how we want our you know the fighting for love and all these things and then you know we all found ourselves in toxic relationships before and then sometimes we get confused about what we want and it's almost like it was like a freudian slip by savannah in terms of like i don't think you want a love that keeps you up at night that is like so like kind of toxic and and that you almost feel constant angst about and that you you confuse that angst with like just deep-rooted feelings and all it really is is like you constantly feeling insecure like yeah, yeah, no, that's not love, man. Yeah.

There's something to be said about like a stable, healthy relationship. That also exists. It doesn't have to be like a Sid and Nancy type of energy to be valid, which is maybe what she was looking for, where it's just like it has to be on all the time. There's no rest. But to her credit, she stood up and and she was like i don't want to be a second choice and she left right so like in fairness you want to point out that she was she

she stood her ground and and and didn't like she didn't wait around for brandon to like send her home she was like nah screw this and it kind of it seemed a little you know who really knows clearly brandon was playing both sides but like the timing in which when he was saying it, like there was like a moment where his like face was off screen and he's just like, I pick Savannah or something. Now it seemed like he was clearly playing both sides, but the Savannah, it's almost like they're like,

they needed to like kind of, what they did is tell you what ultimately did happen, just the in a different way than it played out sometimes it seemed like she was like i don't want to be your second choice i don't want to be a choice and she left because she was great and i think ultimately that was probably her intention and that's how she felt about the situation i mean i'm joking about, I want a love that keeps me up at night. And I'm like, what? You don't want to sleep? Like, that sounds terrible.

But you're right. She did. I thought she had that. She should be proud of that in that sense and that she probably could, she could have just waited around and waited around and let Brandon, you – and not have that be a good look. Yeah.

That scene in general just gave me so much whiplash. Just like, okay, she is saying she doesn't want to be second choice. He's like, all right, that's your decision. And then cut to like five seconds later, he's like, wait, just kidding. I actually decided that I chose you. Or like something like that. It was a whole mess. And then she to like five seconds later he's like wait just kidding i actually decided that i chose you or like something like like that it was a whole mess and then she's like nope and then just i think within a period of 30 minutes he went from julia to savannah to julia to savannah to julia to savannah to julia's just all over the place. Because ultimately,

he just wants to choose himself, I think. That's a great point. I think, yeah, Brandon's biggest fan is Brandon. So we get to the music competition of it all. I will say, I'm really enjoying

more than I thought I would, the singing. I don't watch The Voice. I don't watch American Idol. I've seen them both, and I appreciate it, the talent that's on there. And for that reason, I guess I'm enjoying the performances more than I thought I would. Yeah, I would say that too. I think it actually brought me back to uh like the nostalgic american idol days because i don't watch it right now and i don't really watch the voice

the voice doesn't like capture me as much as as american idol did but i started just thinking about like uh the season with like katherine mcphee and dotry and kelly pickler and how invested i was in in that show and this episode kind of brought me back to that place where it's like oh yeah it's kind of see it's kind of interesting to see like how these people will do like on a rendition of like lover or something like that you know and also the music choice is really good i was kind of expecting yeah because with the normal bachelor franchise we're getting like country left and right and i am so surprised that that's not a thing but yeah we're getting like really good stuff they seem to be doing a good job of selecting

uh songs that um that work with the the performers is it was it right it's ryan and rudy right matt right ryan and natasha okay then i'm sorry i always confuse matt ryan's name Is it Ryan and Rudy? Right, Matt? Ryan and Natasha. Okay, then I'm sorry. I always confuse Matt and Ryan's name. Oh, yeah. Matt is really, I got to say, I wasn't sure about Matt in episode one, but both as a character and as a performer, really enjoy listening. Yeah, I really liked him a lot. And I love that song.

That was the perfect song for him. They really set him up for success. Yeah, they set them lot. And I love that song. That was like the perfect song for him. They really set them up for success. Yeah, they set them both up for success for that song. That was a perfect song choice for both of them. And I really enjoyed it. I also got to say, I think the trap of people getting more attracted when they have a good voice is definitely working here. Because I can see a lot of these people,

whether it's like actually attracted to them or I just trust them more after I see them sing a song I really like and they do justice to it. I'm like, okay, wait, actually Matt's kind of cool, you know, but if he didn't sing a song that I really liked and do it justice, maybe I wouldn't have that higher opinion of him. So I feel tricked. No. Yeah, you're right. Because like I'm not in any way invested in the Matt and Rudy relationship, except but once they sing, you're like, oh, maybe they can be in love forever. I just I just think Rudy as like a person. Yeah, she seems like a cool hang.

She's got a beautiful voice, you know, really soulful, rich voice. She seems effortless when she sings, you know, really soulful, rich voice. She seems effortless when she sings. You know, like early on in the season when she would talk, she would, you know, show her vulnerability, you know. And she would, even in a fun, playful way. I've dated half the guys in L.A. She was this kind of authentic mess, right? And I don't mean that as a criticism. she was this kind of authentic mess right i don't mean that as a criticism but when she's on stage that's when she's very confident where she's like she she feels like you know what i might be

super insecure about everything else in my life but you give me a microphone and a song i like to sing and and that and i i that's fun to watch right it's fun to see her confidence in in that and uh yeah i really enjoyed that performance yeah uh which is literally the opposite relatable yeah yeah the opposite of of jamie and trevor uh i felt bad you know it's funny because like uh both uh both that performance and julia and brand, you know, they were still fine. Like, again, this is coming from a guy who can't sing.

You know, I have no musical talent. So Trevor and Jamie's like was still pretty good. Like all the, like, like, that's what I thought. I was,

I wonder if they recorded it, if they record them over, you know, after, and then it's possible. Do you think here's what I, here's what I think. I think it's, you know, after? It's possible. Here's what I think. She sounded perfect. It's a TV show, right?

They did the same thing on Dancing with the Stars. Dancing with the Stars is far less produced, and it's really the dancing competition. But listen, if you go on Dancing with the Stars and all week at practice, you're like, I'm nervous, I'm nervous, I suck, I suck, I suck, you're like, I'm nervous. I'm nervous. I suck. I suck.

I suck. I'm nervous. I'm nervous. I'm nervous. And you have a whole week of footage of you saying how nervous you are. They're going to let the judges know that, right? And it doesn't really matter how good or bad your dance is. They're going to be like, you seemed tense on the dance floor.

You know, that happens, right? And so clearly that's happening here and so jamie set herself up like she would have had to bring the house down um and and she still looked nervous and so that's what's going on and like you know the the judges are made aware of like it's not i love my favorite my favorite line. It just seems like, wow, the judges are like psychic. They like know everything that's going on, like behind behind the clothes. It's like they can read our minds. It's like, yeah, sure.

Yeah. Maybe they're. I have a feeling that this is like a new couple. Am I am I gathering that? Am I guessing this? It's like I'm my my work. I don't know. I just I don't know. I just, I don't know.

Maybe I'm crazy, but did you guys get in a fight five minutes ago? You know, like there's certainly a little bit of that. But, so yeah, I don't think her performance was, was, and also like they were, I will say one thing that doesn't really fit for me is like, and I get it because it's The Bachelor and there's always

going to be an emphasis on love but this idea that like you can't that the connection to your singing partner matters as much as they want you to believe it matters you know like i get the stars born and it seemed like you know they they were truly in love and like great performances by two wonderful actors, you know, the best. But at the same time, like, yeah, I mean, and even because like Julia, I love her voice. I think she has one of the stronger voices of of of the group. I don't particularly like Brandon's voice, but like I'm watching him and I'm just like, I don't know. It seemed fine to me. Meanwhile, Tony Braxton's is like i love anti-grammar's expressions you know and god only knows when like

what what where that expression actually is coming from you know yeah he might have got a text from his like wife or something i don't who knows and it just gets like frank yeah i mean he's just like what's going on like maybe he had like a weird fart or something you know and all of a sudden he's making a face but whatever that that is that you know the show is the show but um i mean uh he was it did feel like he was ignoring her kind of when he was playing don't you think well again with brandon and julia yeah really no brandon and julia well brandon is all about brandon like you know like that's yeah yeah right right well but also like again i'm not a performer so i don't know if that's a natural thing i i don't know that so

it's hard for me to like criticize uh musical performances when i'm like literally the worst at that at singing but i understand this is a duet. I understand you play into it, but is that the case for performers? Like, like let's say, you know, two performers who are happily married, not to each other. Right. Do they always have to act in love, you know, when they're singing? Yeah. Yeah. True. True. I mean, I guess I, I think that falls on a different skillset too, where it's like, you know when they're singing a yeah yeah true true uh i mean i guess i i think that falls on a different skill set too where it's like you know if if you're uh because like for example

i don't necessarily i think natasha is wildly talented and i think i think ryan's like really talented too in like his own like unique way he has like a very unique kind of like john mayer mixed with sean mendez kind of vibe going on. I don't think that they're really in love with each other. I just think that they have kind of done this silent nod to each other where it's like, hey, this is good for both of us. We're both doing great. We both have good voices and they can really play into the energy really well. But I don't think they're actually, you know, really vibing with each other. I mean, even look at Natasha. Not at all.

Yeah, when Natasha and Ryan were talking about Julie and Brandon, Natasha was like, oh, yeah, you're fun to talk shit with or just to gossip with. I think that's what their relationship is. They're just both – she's like the commentator person of this season. Yeah. She's just like her sidekick. She's drama waiting to happen happen and we saw kind of

a teaser my prediction for next week and i don't know how many they're if they let's say if they keep eliminating one couple each week i don't know if that's going to work timing wise but natasha and ryan are the next to go for sure we're going to peel back the kind of like the insincerity of that relationship i wouldn't be surprised jamie and trevor i wouldn't be surprised if jamie and trevor bounce back i wouldn't be surprised if she has kind of a redemption week. Listen, Jamie really likes Trevor. Trevor doesn't really like Jamie. That's pretty obvious.

I'm really over Trevor. You know what I will say, too, with Trevor is I think Trevor is so lucky that Brandon was around because Trevor was getting set up to be like the dick of the season. And then Brandon was like, hold my beer. Let me just say some little shitty stuff to multiple people. And I guess good for Brandon that he's like, well, you know, and Trevor's been on American Idol and Trevor Trevor's the different biggest difference between Trevor and Brandon is Trevor is very aware of this is a TV show and how this could all work out and Brandon's like whatever man this is who I am right Brandon is more authentic Trevor I don't know if he's a good or a bad guy you know I don't think the producers even really know he just once in a while it seems like

he's playing it up a little bit too much and i don't think he's a bad guy at all but he's certainly not as the the sincere sweetie he wants you to think he is right yeah i think that's pretty clear yeah i'm a bit of a believer in like when when there's smoke there's fire and i think that's a case with trevor where there's just like enough that's off whether it's like the uh the whole like emotional cheating with like a the past part and it wasn't like way in the past too it was like very recently from the sounds of things so i think that's something to consider and then even when you were looking at his intro clip he's like they're songwriting shirtless he's like oh don't mind me just you know i never songwrite with a shirt on so there's just a little bit of like a untrust

untrustworthy energy going on with trevor but i think i'm sure he's a i'm sure he's a fine guy he's like i said if he if he just was a little bit more honest that he again it's the overplay in the nice guy right if he just played if he played that up a little bit less I would find him to be like just a normal dude you know but he's just a guy and it's fine

also he's like a seasoned performer and I think it's like probably annoying to be paired up with a 20 year old girl who hasn't found any sense of confidence yet like that's got to get old yeah yeah well that's you know that's on him he you know he yeah true true uh and then every time brie and chris perform i get butterflies sincerely i always get a little choked up they're just you know they're like it's not like they're clearly like in love and boring tv and the show is just like reminds you every week oh they're still here

they're gonna definitely win whatever competition and they're the best they're the most talented and like by the way do you think they'll get engaged at the end oh 100 oh yeah i think if anyone's getting engaged it's definitely them and also they're, they've had like three or four episodes. Yeah. Four episodes. And they're already like well off to the races. So I don't think it's even that much of a leap to get to an engagement. They're the Jaden Tanner.

Yeah. Like, like, you know, Tanner, like, and I, when I say not great TV, again, that's not a criticism that at all. That's a, it could be a compliment. Right. But they're, they're really sincerely falling for each other they're both really gifted musicians they're the like listen that's why you get that a little bit of chris playing the piano every episode because like that's his best stuff

like he's they're leaning into what he's great at and he's a sweet man who's so sincere and i love i love chris i love i actually think he's like i think he's like my favorite guy singer of the whole show too i mean i'm more drawn to like his style too so that's a big i think he's the most talented i mean i think he just goes up there and it's just not a thought in the world and it's so effortless for him to do this it's so like he's so good um and i think brie is also really good during their performance. I got like little, little like butterfly chills a little bit. I totally did.

I I'm every time they perform, I'm like, wow, I'm such, such a, it's like, it's like, I'm,

I know a little bit. Listen, I totally do. Um, yeah. Anything we haven't covered in terms of, uh, some listen to your heart.

I think we got it all. Toni Braxton, shout out to her. Yeah, she's great. Wow, what an icon. They've had some great people, like Jason Rez last week, Toni Braxton this week. I really like Toni's commentary. She was funny, and she was really into it.

And they all have been. You never really know what to expect from celebrity guests on the show, but they've all really embraced it. And they've been fun. And you feel like you got to know them a little bit. And I've been, I enjoyed watching and I really liked Andy Grammer's reactions. They were, I love when he was just like, was it great? I don't know. We won't really know, but you know what you tried, you know, or something like that. It i mean it was pretty he seemed really funny and uh oh it was that was like to jamie and trevor right where it's like the two the first two thirds like you know kind of rocky but the third you brought it back home i think and yeah good job he was pretty funny i really i really and i enjoyed you know and then you know you know, Rachel and what's Brian?

Brian. Yeah, they were great. I'm sorry. Yeah. Great guy. I've met him once. Great guy. Can't wait for that.

They're married, right? Yeah. Husband. So, yeah. Well, I really, Brett, thank you for coming in and talking all things Bachelor Nation with me. It's great to catch up. We've been kind of, yeah, I love how we use the listen to your heart, both a recap and a State of the Union. Slow times that we're in.

We have, you know, we got to give the people what we want. We have, you know, we got to give the people what we want. I think that's honestly why, like, thank God Gigi got pregnant because that really is giving some really beautiful news out there, things to get excited about. There's even some Bachelor crossover there. Yeah. So I appreciate you coming on. It's been a ton of fun. Where can people find you?

You can find me on Twitter, Instagram. It's Brett S Vergara. can people find you uh you can find me on twitter instagram it's brett s vergara and then i also made more because i was purely bored and was craving human connection i made a facebook group that's just like brett's bachelor buds and i saw that how's that going so how's that great i i made it because uh yeah like i've actually haven't i'm in between contracts and like my my actual day-to-day life at the moment so like that's not going to start up for about a week or so so i've been extremely bored the past month and change so i was like well i need to just uh do something here so i made it on a whim find that your bachelor bubs what what what is the average bachelor bud uh what kind of person

as it is because here's what i've noticed there's certain fan groups that have different personalities yeah yeah you know well i think what i what i will say and like i do uh slip from time to time but in general like the the vibe i want to capture on twitter is just i don't like to be mean when i can you know like i definitely can be snarky and all that, but I, I do, uh, watch like what I say and how much I drag people. I do. Uh, and, and I've definitely tried to get better at that too. Um, I'm a little bit more harder on the guys than I am, than I am like the women of the show, you know, but, um, but I think think my i want to say like my group captures like that same thing too like i really want to make it i don't know because i i'm also like in some other uh facebook groups and

i've seen reddit where it just gets like so harsh and it's like man this is like exhausting like just finding so much and there's a you, sometimes people get the confused criticism with like hate or like name calling or whatever or, you know, but what are you going to do? Hey, listen, it all comes from, and I get it, right? of just wanting to be liked. And especially if you're a fan of someone, you get defensive. I get it. You know, even like, I think probably the only thing that bugged me from last week is just like,

you must hate Christians, you know, because I was just like, I'm a Christian. Like, I'm definitely a Christian. I just like have these opinions about that. But I also, again, I get like have these opinions about that but I also again I get it I get that it comes from a place of love and everyone has a um an opinion and that's fine and you know it's so it's always interesting different types of bachelor fans I had that there

was this one a bachelor account last week that was really really trolling me um yeah it was like they're like posting all these like like there's like this one cameo that i got like a bad review so like they're posting like they're trying to dig up any dirt they could and like it's like 30 followers it's like it's it's and it's like the theme of it was uh you know silly thing bachelor people do but it only like was pointing out silly things that like me peter hannah ann and kelly have done all mean all meanwhile like you know pointing out all the great things madison's has done i thought that's interesting so it's like oh that's a little

bias yeah it uniquely doesn't follow madison though but it's clearly a a madison fan account that's not a that's not uh that's not a fan account i did see the fun blake thing that little that little retort yeah what are you you know I've been I've been tough on Blake uh and that's fine you know it's totally fine I I get that I I like Blake but I've been tough on him and I get it and um you know he's probably sensitive about it he you know he then that's fine no I don't have any hard feelings I understand if he has a hard feeling towards me but um yeah I don't know i've had i mean god i've had so much criticism over the years yeah what i i thought you both of you had

funny lines and that i thought both of you had like very funny comebacks in that little retort back and forth so like you know it could just be that it's totally fine i mean again it's it's tough right and i've i've had the luxury of of taking some really early heat early on so that when it happens, it's like I get that. I get where it's coming from. I try not to take it personally. And the good news is, is no one really cares. And certainly no one remembers a week later. And then, you know, someone like G it gets pregnant i do think uh to as as like a closing thought like this whole idea of uh you know everything feels like if uh it's like matt matt's cameo thing i think for the most part the franchise is is quick to forget things so i'm curious to see when we do get to the point where we're looking at claire's season again if that's going to be a thing that's as big of a news story or if it's going to get swept under the rug.

It's interesting what has staying power in the franchise and what just gets forgotten very quickly. Like Maddie's Instagram thing. I thought that was swept under the rug pretty quickly. So it's just weird. There's always more. My prediction with that is if they

don't cast matt it will go away if they do it will get brought back up which is probably my guess is and i have no knowledge of this is just my guess is that whether matt recuses himself or the bachelor producer is just like yeah we can't like maybe wait a year but like you can't like we can't have you on for the very reason like they don't want the press to like be bringing up and like write articles again how like everyone agreed with matt and you know all these matt stands who are like you know loud on twitter um you know and because the truth is like claire hasn't been around she quite you know she does she's not friends with tyler you know someone who's one of the more popular people

and most relevant, certainly now, in Bachelor Nation. And Matt's friends with Hannah Brown and Tyler. That's a strong fan base right there. But he's still not the Bachelorette. And you've got to protect the lead. Yeah, makes sense so well brett i really appreciate uh you coming on it's been a lot of fun uh always it was always good to talk pop culture bachelor with you and uh we will uh we will uh talk again i'm sure sounds good looking

forward to it all right thanks for listening guys we appreciate you tuning in don't forget to check us out tomorrow paul sheer yeah that's a paul's a fun one if you uh paul's been a very successful comedian actor uh and a ton of stuff um he's also a bachelor fan but we have a fun conversation about life uh what it's like for him from a parenting standpoint and his wife and dealing with coronavirus and it's a really fun light-hearted conversation with paul that I know you will enjoy. So make sure to check us out tomorrow.