The Viall Files - E135 Canoes Are Romantic with Joe Thomas

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

This week Nick is joined by retired NFL player Joe Thomas. On this episode we find out that Joe’s biggest game changing moments happened nowhere near the field. Joe shares how he met his wife, why he went fishing with his dad instead of going to the NFL draft, and how he sometimes finds himself watching The Bachelor and commentating like a sportscaster. He chases 4 little ones around the house, he cooks, he cleans, he podcasts, and he competes on Dwayne Johnson’s The Titan Games. Retirement is everything he wanted it to be. “What’s your why?” Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode!  Thank you to our sponsors:  BETTER HELP: betterhelp.com/VIALL LUMINESS TrySilk.com/VIALL HAWTHORNE: hawthorne.co CODE: VIALL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files thanks for tuning in I am your host Nick joined by my producer Chrissy how you doing Chrissy I'm doing good I'm doing good keeping Keeping it together. That's good to hear. Yeah, I think you guys are really going to enjoy this episode. The world's been heavy lately. It's been heavy. And I think if you're looking for a kind of an easygoing conversation with an absolutely wonderful guest, I think you'll really enjoy this. Joe Thomas is our guest today, formerly of the NFL and just all around great guy. If for those of you who are listening, I get a smile on my face just thinking about it.

Yeah. For those of you who don't know who Joe Thomas is, I think you're going to really love him after this episode. I know Chrissy didn't know Joe before. Now she has a life-size poster of him hanging on his wall. It's just a little crush. I haven't had a poster yet.

Yet. Yet. No, but Joe is a Hall of Fame or soon-to-be Hall of Fame NFL offensive lineman, but also a husband, a father, just a very interesting man. And it's fun to hear kind of a little bit about his life and his ways of thinking and him as a husband and a father. And I think I fell in love with him even more than I already was. And I think you're all going to really enjoy listening to Joe. Before we get to Joe, though, I did want to tell you guys a story,

a story about the first time I was arrested. By first, I mean only time. I was detained. So it was about 10 years ago. I was still living in Milwaukee, and I went out to the barge with my best friend, my girlfriend at the time, and his girlfriend at the time, now wife. to the barge with my best friend, my girlfriend at the time, and his girlfriend at the time, now wife. And so we are in Milwaukee. A little bit about Milwaukee. Milwaukee is a pretty segregated city, actually one of the most segregated cities. And so you have white people living in one part of the city, black people living in another part of the city, Hispanic people, so on and so forth. One of the more popular streets in Milwaukee, for those of you who aren't familiar, is called Water Street. It's just a street full of bars and restaurants.

And in the summertime, it gets really busy. It's not very warm there often. People get excited to go out. And so in the summer, I don't know if they still do this i assume they do but uh they'll close down water street on the weekends but this is something they do all the time they close down both ends of the street yeah the weekends right and i kind of had seen this before i i honestly didn't think much of it right and it's like oh they're you know they're uh keeping the. I just assumed if people got arrested, they deserved it kind of thing. And so at the end of the, and also keep in mind, I say one of Milwaukee's, one of the

more segregated cities is that when you go to Water Street, the people who are at the bars are predominantly white, right? At least, I mean, I don't have exact numbers, but I would say on the low end, at least 80%, probably closer to 90% of the people who are out at the bars are white, right? So at the end of the night, we're leaving the bars. And my best friend is the type of lovable guy when sometimes when he drinks, you got to make sure you know where he is, right? He's very social.

You can lose him quickly. You will talk to anyone. The guy you got to keep an eye on. The guy you got to keep an eye on, right? He's very social. You can lose them quickly. You will talk to anyone. The guy you got to keep an eye on. The guy you got to keep an eye on, right? We all have that friend. He's a great friend. And so we're leaving the bars and I'm with my girlfriend and his girlfriend. And all of a sudden we lose him. We're like, oh, we're outside. And it's like chaotic, right? There's these cops on horses. And like the first thing you do when you walk outside of the bars, you giant horse you've had a few drinks you want to like look at the horse and touch the horse and the cops are like don't touch the horse and i'm like well why are you right in our face

you know and so there's just a lot of confusion and you know people are drinking and drunk so we cross the street all of a sudden we realize oh god our friend's not behind us so i'm like oh i'm gonna go find my friend and i'm on the phone i'm calling him. All of a sudden, we realized, oh, God, our friend's not behind us. So I'm like, oh, I'm going to go find my friend. And I'm on the phone. I'm calling him. And all of a sudden, this cop looks at me and goes, get out of here, and starts screaming at me and cussing. And I'm like, yeah, no problem, man.

We're just going to grab my friend. I'll be out of here. And then for whatever reason, I don't know, I gave him a look. He didn't like the way I looked. I don't know. He just did a beeline over to me and said, you're under arrest. Place me under arrest. Handcuffed me. My girlfriend and my other friend, those two are freaking out. He puts me in handcuffs and he starts like bending my wrists. I don't know why. I presume because he

was hoping that I would resist that. I don't know. And then a bunch of other cops swarmed by, they're yanking on me. I'm like, okay, fine. I'm like, whatever, man. And they throw me in this van. And again, there's multiple vans. And I get in this van. I'm kind of panicked.

And I look up and I realize, I look. And it's me, one other white kid, and a bunch of black young men. And so here we are on the street. How many people are in the van? 10 to 15. I don't know. That's a lot of people.

It's a big van. So here we are on the street where it's just all white patrons. And at the end of the night, the cops are just clearly just arresting people. You know, for whatever, I don't, I mean, I got arrested for literally no reason. And it's a van full of young black men. And so then at the time, my, my then girlfriend and her

friend are like panicked. They go find this, this kind of friendly looking cop. And they're like, what, what's going on? Our friend got arrested for no reason. We were just standing there. And, you know, here you have two little cute, you know, girls going up to a cop, you know, pleading for their friend. And for my sake, thankfully, he went and found the arresting officer and convinced him to let me go. So the cops giving me this whole speech and, you know, it's like, he didn't had no reason to arrest me and i don't know if the guy the cop that my friends went to was his senior i i don't know but uh i'll never forget right before he let me go and i'm paraphrasing but he just said something to the effect of

we shouldn't be arresting people like you. He doesn't know me. And it was so clear to me at the time that what he meant was because I'm white. It was so obvious. And he said it to me in a way, and I remember being so offended by him saying that because he said it to me as if I would acknowledge what he said.

Being like, yeah, why are you arrested? Yeah, like you shouldn't. Like I knew what he was like i would agree with him yeah and it was just such a like a an eye-opening moment of holy shit this stuff still goes on um and there's no doubt in my mind that the only reason i was let off that night was because i was white right Right. I mean, if that's the only, no doubt in my mind. So it was a, it was a wild experience. And, you know, some things that I thought about after that night is I had, again, I had been up plenty of times, right. I've seen this go on. I just paid

no attention to it. You know, I never looked to see who was getting arrested. I assumed the people who were getting arrested must've been doing something that deserved to, You know, I never looked to see who was getting arrested. I assumed the people who were getting arrested must've been doing something that deserved to, you know, that deserved it. Like drunken disorder or something. Experiencing firsthand that I was literally not literally, I wasn't even, I wasn't even like, yeah, I wasn't even that drunk. I don't get that drunk. So I was like calm. I wasn't stumbling. We were just like looking for our friends, really being very respectful to the, it wasn't like cussing, nothing. And so, you know, the next day I remember I called a couple of local news and told them the story and they're like, yeah,

we've heard this before this happens. And, you know, nothing really came of that. But for those of the people out there, you know, listen to the story. I only tell it because I know that there seems to be a lot of resistance towards, you know, maybe acknowledging that, you know, we just, we take for granted the privilege that we do have. Right. I know in that moment, I realized, wow, I just, I just assumed this stuff didn't happen. And for those people listening, I want to ask you a question in terms of like create a scenario. Imagine next time you went out to the bars whenever that happens.

Or if you don't go to the bars anymore, imagine when you used to go to the bars. For whatever reason, arbitrarily someone came to you and said, all right, you're going to go out tonight? Great. But you have to put on this green t-shirt. And just a heads up, at the end of the night, wherever you go out, there's going to be cops who have closed the street down. And of all the people out, there's only about 10% of you are going to be wearing this green t-shirt. And just know that at the end of the night, they're going to be, the cops will be looking to make arrests. It's going to be pretty arbitrary. There's going to be a lot of confusion. There's going to be a lot of, you know, drunk people. And they're just there to arrest people. There's going to be vans lined up. They're going to throw a bunch of people and arrest them for God knows what. And just know that they're going to be looking to only arrest people with green t-shirts minus a few exceptions

it's going to be predominantly green t-shirt people how many how many people would go out i assume most of you wouldn't uh you'd be like you know what i'm going to sit this one out if i'm going to stay home i'm not going to i'm not going to risk it why what's the big deal uh and that just to think about that. I mean, that's literally what was happening that night. Now, like, think about the idea that you can never take this green t-shirt off. You know, you had to always wear this green t-shirt. So maybe then you're like, you know what? I got to live. I got to go out. I got to do my thing. And imagine what that would be like to

go out knowing that every time you had this green t-shirt on and if you had a target on your back, you know, that maybe if you interacted with a police officer, some of these police officers might make a lot of assumptions about you and looking to not give you any breaks. Assume that if there was chaos or confusion or a crime that you'd be one of the first people they would look at. Um, imagine that, right. And then, you know, imagine a lot of shit would go down and atrocities would happen to other people that you knew that were wearing green t-shirts. You know, you maybe even, you felt like you were mistreated or unfairly punished. And you knew it was because you had a green t-shirt on and you heard about other atrocities

of other people wearing green t-shirts. And then you started a movement saying green t-shirts matter. And then someone came to you and said, but all t-shirts matter. And you're like, I know that, but like, but no one else wearing a different colored t-shirt matter and you're like i i know that but like but no one else wearing a different colored t-shirt is being treated like the like we know this happens to us like i was told this yeah um and that's that's what when so when you say all lives matter like that's what you're doing you're like no one's saying that all lives don't matter. And I sometimes just don't understand why people are so unwilling to just acknowledge that there are people out there who aren't treated fairly. You know, that I know sometimes it's hard.

Like I remember thinking when that night happened to me, it was like, it was sad to realize this does happen. And even if you don't think it does and you never would, it does happen. And sometimes it is scary to acknowledge that. But I don't know why some people are so resistant to saying, you know what, maybe I haven't seen this happen. I don't want to believe it happens. But clearly it is happening. And I want to support it. I want to support the movement.

I want equality to be a thing. And I just don't get why some people are so resistant to acknowledging that not everyone is treated fairly. So I don't know. I hope you guys enjoyed the story. Whatever, I got arrested once. But more importantly, again, and I don't know what it's like to that night experience was in no way, it was a tip of the iceberg of what goes on. I can't, I literally can't know what it's like to that, that, that, that night experience was in no way, it was a tip of the iceberg of what goes on. I can't, I literally can't imagine what it's like to be a black person having to face that day in and day out. And I'm fortunate that I had kind of that experience to kind of make me at

least a little bit of aware. Imagine having to educate your children that way day in and day out. I've seen so many of those videos of people having to educate your children that way day in and day out i've seen so many of those videos of people having to educate their children that just how they have to act when they walk outside the door totally and there's a lot of great police officers out there my brother is one of them and it was great to see over the weekend a lot of great videos and pictures of protesters and police officers coming together and And I hope to see more of that. But again, this stuff still happens.

And that was a crazy night for me. And it was very shocking and disturbing. And you just want to say, all right, yeah, this is happening more than I realize. And I want to bring awareness to it and support the people who are affected by this. And yeah. I gave you a different perspective because before you weren't even like wondering why people were getting arrested on the street, not even thinking about it. Don't even think about it. Never pay no attention to it.

You know, I was like, of course I'm not racist, but like anyone who gets arrested must deserve it. Yeah. You know, just kind of a very simplistic thought process, you know? And again, I wasn't, I wasn't even thinking who was getting arrested. I wasn't even paying attention to that. But once I got into that back of that van and I saw who I was sitting among, it was just crazy. Like how, how was that possible? Clearly there was an agenda. You can't,

you can't have a van full of black people and a crowd full of white people. It's not a coincidence. And I know that I was arrested for literally no reason. And so, yeah, anyways, I just, again, once again, I know this is, I hope the people listening or we have a great audience with an open mind and progressive, but let's just try to continue to do our part in terms of supporting those people who are different than us, trying to better understand their point of view and their perspective. And let's not be so resistant to acknowledging there's still shit that goes on that we would sometimes like to believe doesn't, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

And ignoring the problem isn't, isn't going to change anything. So any who Joe Thomas coming up. That's enough of the heavy stuff. This is a fun, loving episode with a great guy and just an absolute wonderful spirit. And I think you will all really enjoy my conversation with legendary Joe Thomas.

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Look, people, I, you know, quarantine, I'm spending a lot of time alone. My life is Groundhog's Day. And I'm gonna be honest, I've felt a little lonely, a little down sometimes. And it's nice to have people to talk to. And we're always big advocates on the Vile Files for making sure you have great mental health.

And if you need to seek a professional, we always encourage that. And BetterHelp makes it super easy and super affordable for you to do that from the comfort and convenience of your home. So whether you are struggling with depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, sleeping, trauma, grief, LGBTQ matters, family conflict, BetterHelp does a great job of getting you the mental health care providers that you might need. They make it super easy. Again, convenient. You go on, you take a quiz, they align you with mental health care providers that you might need. They make it super easy. Again, convenient. You go on.

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Yeah, I mean, I wanted to have you on. I know you're probably, you know, for those listening, I'm not sure how many of you know who Joe Thomas is. I know a lot about Joe. I've been following his career ever since he was in college, but I thought he would be great to have on as someone who I followed. And for those of you who don't know, Joe is one of the greatest football players of all time, certainly offensive lin lineman and an all-around great guy. And if you followed his career or follow him post-football, I've thought of you as a really critical thinker, a free thinker, and a great guy, and you've been kind of very active in your retirement.

And there's a lot of people we have listening to the show who, you know, are thinking about, you know, changes in life and new phases in their life. And I thought you'd be fun to talk to about that and just kind of, you know, shoot the shit. So thanks for coming, Joe. Absolutely. Those things all sound great to me. I love to just break bread with people, talk to all sorts of people and kind of pick their brain and vice versa so this should be fun it's a lot of fun i know you're a you're a big wisconsin uh you grew up in wisconsin right you're i did i grew up right down the road from you and brookfield so we were neighbors there uh yeah a lot of wisconsin pride and then i yeah then i went to wisconsin for college so did you go to Brookfield Central? I did.

Yep. Brookfield Central, 2003. High school graduating class. It's crazy to think that you were a freshman when I was a senior. Because you're a larger than life guy. So I looked you up and I'm like, God damn it. I'm older than Joe. You'd have been giving me swirlies in the hall.

So I'm glad we didn't go to the same high school. I was too skinny when I was a freshman. Well, when did you like, when did you really kind of sprout, I guess? Yeah, I was pretty tall. So I was actually 6'6 when I was a freshman, 14 years old, 6'6 with a size 16 shoe. So I was a little bit clumsy back then, but I started to fill into my body a little bit in high school. But when I graduated high school, I was still only 250 pounds and so once I got to college at Wisconsin they immediately took me from being a defensive end tight end and said all right you're gonna be a left tackle you

got to gain some weight and so I gained about 35 pounds in that first semester which is not that uncommon if you go to Wisconsin and you're just a regular student from all the beer and cheese that you're consuming. But I did it in a little, maybe more healthy. I'm not exactly sure because they would just feed us these 1000 calorie milk, fat carton smoothies after every workout to try to get us to gain weight. But it was, it was good because you had to have that weight to play offensive line. Yeah. it must have been interesting i know we talk a lot about weight or and we have on the show but uh interesting kind of phenomenon to like have to constantly work on your body and um you know it's one thing like i try to stay in shape and stay active but um to to kind of usually go the people are usually trying to lose weight right and you're trying to constantly put on weight.

Was that, what was that like at first? Was that, did it feel natural or was that gaining weight so rapidly other than like just from a football standpoint, you know, was it kind of an interesting kind of interacting, especially in college, you know, you're changing your body, you're getting bigger, maybe even getting like a belly

from a student's standpoint or where you're just like, I'm just a football player. It's fine. Yeah. I think, you know, I was focused on trying to be a good football player and I knew that, you know, being bigger was just part of the job description. Um, but it was, it was fun because, you know, you go to the bars, you're, you're trying to gain some weight.

And so you have a big night and then you go and eat two chipotle burritos right before bed and your buddies are trying to hang with you but they're gaining bad weight and you're like putting on muscle because you're 18 and you're lifting and you're training really hard uh so that was fun but i will say that after doing that for the better part of a decade and a half from college and through the pros, like you get to the point where every meal you're eating, where it feels like it's Thanksgiving and you just can't eat one more bite. And that feeling of being overly full all the time, it does wear on you after a while. But now that I did lose the weight and I'm much more conscious of what I eat, I do miss those days a little bit where you could just literally eat whatever you want

and as much as you want. And just every meal was like the greatest feast of all time. Yeah. I mean, since retirement, you've transformed your body again. And so is that just a result of being really strict with your diet? Or was it more... I think I read something where you kind of naturally lost a bit of weight just not trying to keep weight on but how hard was that and is that how has that affected kind of your kind of overall health and you know your feelings uh like not feeling emotional feelings but just do you feel like what's what's that been like i cry a lot more now these days you know i'm much more emotional i'm in touch with my kindred.

But no, towards the end of my career, I started to have a lot of joint pain. It's part of playing in the NFL. But also, when you're eating as unhealthy as I was eating, because I was eating really, really high sugar foods, high carb foods, and I was drinking sodas and milkshakes and eating ice cream and cookies before bed. And I was doing anything I could to put calories into my body because I'm not naturally a 300 pound person. I'm probably naturally around 250. And so to be able to go from 250 to 300 to play football in the NFL on the offensive line, you have to put so many calories in your body. And then on top of that, you have to put so many calories in your body.

And then on top of that, you're burning a ton of calories every single day because every day you're, you're weight training and you're practicing. Um, and so it was like a grind towards and all that sugar in my body and all those carbs that I was eating, I started to kind of have a lot of inflammation just all over. And I thought, well, it's just because I played 11 years in the NFL and you know, it's just starting to add up and, you know, my knees were always swollen. I would have to walk down the stairs backwards because I was just in a lot of pain. And so I was really looking forward to losing weight because I knew, you know, my, my doctor told me that like three pounds or excuse me, one pound of body weight is like three pounds through your joints. So losing 50 pounds is like 150 less pounds going through your knee. So it's going to be a big impact on how you feel.

And that was absolutely true as I started losing the weight. But more than anything, just not eating all those sugars. Cause I went with kind of the low carb approach. All of a sudden, like my skin clears up, my knees are feeling better. Like my fingers fingers i can bend them again and make a fist because they're not swollen all the time and it it was like this ancillary benefit that i never expected that all of a sudden eating more vegetables and proteins and moving away from like the carbs and the sugars man i feel really good and so my goal was just to

kind of lose the weight and then go back to sort of a normal diet but actually for the last couple years i've been pretty much on like a keto low carb diet just because of how much energy it gives me and how good it makes me feel yeah um i'm the same way i'm a pretty lean guy i've been lucky to generally stay lean but if i've been like i have a sweet tooth so if i binge on sugar the next the day, I feel like I get hit by a truck. Like I, it will, I'll have to, I'll get out of bed and have to like grab one leg and like move it. And it's, it's amazing how the sugar and the inflammation will affect your joints. So just, just feeling that I, um, you're, you're so right in terms of, and it's always fascinating. My sister's a holistic nutritionist and, and she really started making me mindful of just the

things we put in our bodies and how it makes us feel. The things that we don't think about, we take for granted on a day-to-day basis. So it's fascinating to hear you say that just because you're right. You probably made a lot of assumptions that a lot of the pains and the feelings you had came from the wear and tear of playing football, only to realize some of it had to do with just the things you were putting in your body. Yeah. I mean, for seven plus years of my NFL career, it was as many calories as possible. And I didn't even think about what I ate, but as I was getting closer to the end of my career, I started taking like supplementation and diet much more serious. The Browns,

the team I was playing for at the time got a nutritionist. And so I just started sitting down next to her at lunchtime and just asking her questions because I just wanted as much information as possible because I did know that I wanted to lose the weight in retirement. And I never would have believed if you told me my rookie year that food has such an effect on how you feel, like what you eat, not necessarily how much you eat. I never would have believed it until I experienced it myself and like you mentioned the first you know 25 30 pounds kind of came off pretty easy but that last like 20 pounds that I wanted to lose I really had to kind of stick to the diet but those were the most rewarding pounds like losing that last 20 I'm like 255 250 right now that last 20 took a little bit of dedication and it felt really good like to

just get those put that commitment into something and see it paying off yeah and it's interesting you say that too because actually even last week we we talked about we had megan on and talked about uh you know body image issues and and the the losing weight is kind of almost a physical trait. But for you to hear you talk about just you personally, how it made you feel internally, just every day is something that makes a lot of sense in terms of even what Megan was talking about. That seems to be a more healthy motivation in terms of why we should look to improve our bodies

of how we feel on the inside. And a result of of appearances then then then great you know i thought you were a handsome guy before joe you're a handsome guy now but it's nice to know that you are everything right but no you're exactly right i mean they're like for me the the goal of losing weight was to feel better and along the way all of a sudden my wife's like, now she's starting to look at me again. I'm like, okay, this isn't that bad. Like that's a nice ancillary, you know, side benefit to, okay, I want to feel better. And okay, my clothes fit a little bit better now. And I'm not the, uh, the tubby O-lineman walking down the street anymore, which, you know, some days you miss that, but overall pretty happy about it. As a, as a straight male, Joe, who's been following

your career post-retirement, you grew a beard, you shaved your head. You've gotten kind of more GQ on us. You went from offensive lineman to very stylish trendsetter. So GQ. It happens with us Wisconsin men, right? We just get better with age. That's just the way it is in Badger land.

Yeah, so far, so good for me. I'm waiting for the year I wake up and be like, nope, it's downhill from here. But so far I've been able to keep up. I got to say, if I wore makeup, I would never want to use brushes. I'd want to use an airbrush because I've had makeup put on me being on TV. And you know what? I like things. I like things that seem like they should be professionals and I shouldn't have access to them, but I do. And I got to tell you what, if you're a woman who uses makeup every day, I don't know how you wouldn't use luminous and have makeup airbrush at the comfort and convenience of your home. I'm just saying, that's just what

I think. I don't know what you think, Chrissy. Maybe I'm just off my noodle, but I think that's like a no brainer. Look, I'm a girl who stands in front of the mirror with all my brushes and sponges laid out all over the place. And you know, the same thing happens over and over again. You put your stuff on, it gets caked in. And then all of a sudden you've got all your makeup kind of like gathered into your fine lines on your face. And then what do you do now? Right? Well, I'm excited because I'm going to be able to try Luminous Cell 4-in-1 airbrush system. And it's a foundation and a concealer and a corrector and primer in one. And it's a formula with anti-aging skincare in it. So you don't need to use your dirty brushes or your sponges with any of the harmful skin stuff that can make your skin kind of break out. So it's

dermatologist recommended and you can shop with confidence with a 30-day money-back guarantee, you're, you're using less makeup. It goes on more evenly, looks more natural. Uh, over 50,000 people have rated it a 4.4 stars. That's, that's amazing. So listen, check it out. Luminous air has a limited time offer for you right now. So go to try silk.com slash V I A L L to get 60% off. Wow. that's crazy. Your Luminous Silk 4-in-1 airbrush system. That's trisilk.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Get smoother, fuller, and more natural-looking foundation coverage. That's right. Visit trisilk.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Speaking of your wife, I know obviously you're married. You met at Wisconsin. I was looking you up, and I actually loved finding out about the story about how you first met your wife.

And I was wondering if you maybe could share that with the audience. I thought it was pretty neat and kind of funny. So it's kind of funny. There's like two stories that we were telling people for a long time. As is typical when you first meet in the bar. So it was like the family story and the friend story. So I actually, it was the summer of my sophomore year in college. We were both living in Madison.

We were both living in apartments that were on Lake Mendota. I mean, awesome spot. We had a pier and we were right across the street from each other. We didn't know each other, but she was on the basketball team. I was on the football team. She lived with basketball girls. I lived with football guys. And so you'd see each other riding your scooters in the mornings at 6 a.m.

And nobody else in Madison is riding scooters at 6 a.m. because we were just the athletes going to work out. And so we'd see each other. And so obviously she caught my eye because she was beautiful and she was tall and I'm tall and not beautiful. So I like all right I gotta go for that one um and then we ended up kind of seeing each other in the training room because occasionally the basketball girls would come over to the training room that the football team used if they needed rehab or they needed some special care and so kind of saw her in there a little bit and you know heard her talking to

her friends I'm like all right someday I'm gonna run into her and it's going to be great. Um, and actually, so there's a bar in Madison called Wando's. It's a really popular bar. It's close to the Kohl's center. And, uh, it was, it was her 21st or 22nd birthday and it was bar times for both outside. And she actually was with her boyfriend and I was just kind of like a little bit inebriated. And I was leaning up against one of the scooters outside with my buddies. And she walked by.

And I'm like, all right, this is my time. And so I just went right over to her. And I was like, hey, honey, I'm Joe. I want to take you out in my canoe someday. That was my pickup line. Because I actually had a canoe that summer. And I think she looked at me like, who is this but she didn't slap me which was good and her boyfriend i don't even know what his name was thankfully he was uh smaller than me so he didn't pick a fight so i got her number there but then like she wouldn't get a hold of me for

a good two months like i tried to text her a couple times call her nothing crickets so i kind of gave up on it and then all of a sudden one day in the summer like out of nowhere she sends me a call like hey you want to uh get together i'm like okay great so we're gonna meet at wando's and uh we get there and she's with a guy and a couple girls i'm like what the heck is this like you tell me you want to meet up and then you bring a guy like, okay, I get it. We just want to be friends. That's fine. So I just kind of blew her off and I was like, screw this.

And then there was like a little bit of a period with nothing. And then out of the blue, she texts me again, like right at the end of the summer and was like, Hey, let's get together. So we went to a Madison Mallards game and she brought her friend again. She must've been really concerned about me because the first day she brings a friend. Here's the thing, Joe. I always kind of joke how the difference between very charming and very creepy is just if they like you and sometimes you're not sure. And while I think a canoe can be really romantic, she also is like, maybe he wants to murder me on a canoe in a lake. On that romantic canoe.

Yes, the serial killer. I have that in me. So I could see what she was thinking, and she wanted to make sure. I just want to make sure. The good news is you got the number the first time, so she definitely was into you. But, yeah, I'm guessing maybe I'd be curious her point of view, and I'm sure you've talked about it.

But, yeah, she must have been like unsure about you the football guy she just was you know you called her honey off the bat and bite her on a scooter you know leaning up against the schooner like it's a corvette you know it was not my finest moment but uh all's well that ends well and certainly i can look back at that and say i didn't have any game when i was a 21-year-old in college whatsoever. And I can see how she thought that might be over the line and a little bit creepy. And you're right, though. Football players sometimes have a bad rap for not being great boyfriends. And I can understand the cautiousness. I appreciate that.

Hopefully, my daughters have the same level of cautiousness when they're meeting men in college. And she made you pursue her, right? Like, you know, she gave you the number. She gave you some breadcrumbs did you know she had a boyfriend did you even know who the guy was or you just no i didn't i no no idea and and from her perspective she's told me uh after the fact that they had only been dating a short while and it didn't last it was kind i think it was a couple dates like one of those where if you ask him he may not have said that they were boyfriend and girlfriend. But if you ask her, it's like, yeah, we're boyfriend and girlfriend.

And we've gone on a couple of dates. Yeah. And my guess is, yeah, she made you pursue her. You showed some vulnerability. There you go. All the buzzwords. Yeah. You probably were nervous.

I was being very honest and open. doing my best, showing my vulnerability. You had a big crush on her. I did. I really did. I mean, she's a babe. And being an athlete, just took it up an extra notch. And then when I actually got to meet her, I was like, man, she's really cool too. So she checked all the boxes that I was looking for, and she has not disappointed.

all the boxes that i was looking for and uh she has not disappointed even even after we got married uh i love her now more than i did when we were dating which is uh pretty unique i would say you uh not to sound you you're kind of you you light up when you talk about her it's a little smitten still yeah she you know it's it's the girl that you thought you never had a chance with that it actually worked out and you know this is i don't know 12 years or so later after being married and four kids and it's like i still sometimes do it's kind of corny but i do kind of pinch myself i'm like how did she fall for me like this this doesn't quite make sense but i'm not going to tell her because then she might like start seeing things from my perspective so i'm okay just like keeping it on the down low uh i think that's what that's what people love about you joe you're so

uh you're like i know you're you're this incredible uh athlete and even in your space being in the nfl but you're like you're such a normal humble person and it always comes from a genuine place and i think that's kind of hard to recognize so hearing you talk about her is a lot of fun to hear because it's it comes with such sincerity uh it's a lot of fun to hear because it's, it comes with such sincerity. Uh, it's a lot of fun. Um, and so obviously it sounds like things are going, going well. You got four kids. Uh, they're all pretty young, aren't you? Yeah. We, uh, we knocked them out pretty quick. So the plan, we got married right before my first season in the NFL and we wanted to have, you know, five or six years to kind of enjoy each other's relationship, enjoy each other's company before we jumped into have kids. Because, I mean, you don't really know until you have kids, but it does change everything.

And we love to travel. We love to, you know, get out and visit friends and do a lot of stuff. I mean, we have a broad amount of things that we really enjoy. And so we wanted to get kind of a lot of those things checked off the list before we had kids, we could focus on kids. And so, um, like, I don't know, my fifth or sixth year in the NFL, we started having kids and we just banged them out. Like every 18 months we had a kid for, uh, like five years. And so, um, we've got a seven-year-old daughter, a five-year-old daughter, a four-year-old son, and then an 18 month old daughter.

So it's a, it's a busy loud house. And with the stay at home orders, it's been interesting trying to do media and podcast while you have kids screaming in the background, which surely you will hear during this podcast at some point. Yeah, totally, totally fine. We are a kid friendly show show uh on here um as someone who's a a hopeful father someday what are um it's funny you i to hear you say you have you know three daughters and a boy and i listen i i hope that i'm i'm able to be a father at all right uh but i've always had

a dream of of having a son yeah did you care did you ever ever think about that? Like when your son was born, it was like, all right, thank God I got one. Or were you just like, you know, when Kobe Bryant talked about being, you know, a daughter, dad, and he honestly didn't mind, like, where was your, I wonder if I start having kids, will I actually, will I be excited that it's a boy or I just be happy to be a father or what was that like for you? Yeah. So my wife and I, Annie, we wanted to have a big family and me, I just wanted to have one of each because I wanted to experience having a boy and having a girl. And so the split didn't really matter. Like if we had four, Hey, would it be great to have two and two? So both of them have like a buddy that's their gender. Yeah. But you don't get to pick those things usually. And we didn't pick those things.

And so we ended up with three girls and a boy and so having two girls first when the boy came out I was like this is awesome but I knew we wanted to have at least four so there wasn't a lot of pressure on number three to have a boy had we had three girls that last one there would have been a lot of pressure to have at least one boy and my my wife comes from a family of three girls and so in her mind she was just like i just wanted to have four girls and i was like that would have been horrible for me think think about the father we got to deal with you and four more girls this would have been horrible but it's it's funny how once they're they're out and they're children it doesn't

matter you fall in love with each one of their personalities differently. And it really doesn't, you don't even think about, oh, that's my boy. That's my girl. Maybe it changes when they get older and you start doing more things with them. And, you know, if my son decides he wants to play football and like, you can kind of see yourself, I think maybe in a boy, like if you have a boy, you can remember the feelings and the emotions that they're going through as they're experiencing something for the first time. Whereas if you have a girl, it's cool because you're experiencing those emotions for the first time with them experiencing it for the first time with whatever those experiences are. So I think either way, it's super cool and super unique.

But I'm definitely glad that I was able to have at least one of each. That's, that's, that's cool to hear you talk about. Well, how has your role kind of changed, you know, since retirement in terms of, you know, being a father, or has it maybe not changed at all in terms of like, you know, the type of father you wanted to be and given the time that you had versus the time that you have now. Yeah. It's been awesome. I love retirement. Not playing in the NFL anymore is pretty special. Like it's so I'm so lucky to have the amount of free time that I do now to be able to spend on my family and my hobbies and like do all those things that I've always

wanted to do that. You just didn't have time when you were playing in the NFL. Like the NFL has a nice off season. Trust me, we get plenty of time in the off season. You get usually two months in January, February, and you get a month in the summer. So you got, you got lots of time, but in season, you know, I just wouldn't get to see him all that much. Cause usually I'm at the facility by six 30 or seven and I get home by six 3030 or 7 at night almost every day of the week. And so you just don't get that time from July through January with your family. And so you kind of miss a lot of stuff. And so being able to be retired, I'm really diving into all these things.

And taking on more of a role in the family and the household, which has been fun. Before, my wife did all the cooking and all the cleaning. And when you get home from football, you're just tired. You don't have time to do any of that. You just sit down and you eat and then you go to bed. Like you're just exhausted. And so I didn't know how to cook at all. I love to eat. I knew how to eat, but I didn't know how to cook. And so right when I retired, we had my last daughter who's now 18 months. And my wife was like all right it's your turn boom you're the cook and clean now and so I've really fallen in love and kind of taken some of my passion and my obsession with like detail from the football field and poured it into cooking

which I never knew I'd love so much but also cleaning like if any any dish is left in the sink, I'm like, Oh God, I've got to wash it quick. It's got to go perfectly organized in the dishwasher. Just like this. It's like a Tetris game in my mind. And like that obsession that I had on the football field, it needed to go somewhere. Like you, you hear a lot of former football players, former athletes, they go from like such obsession in detail and then they lose that and they don't have an avenue to like dump that into in retirement and then that's when they kind of go in some of those downward spirals

so me i've put them into organizing my dishwasher that's that's great to hear you what a great life in retirement i'm living here you know you're you're you're being modest again joe because it's again i follow you on twitter i've you like I, you know, I watch a lot of sports. At Joe Thomas 73, in case you guys are wondering. Yeah, you should follow Joe. He's a good, even if you're not a football fan, he's a good follow. But you've been highly active in your retirement career. And for those of you who don't know, who didn't follow Joe's career,

he talked about his attention to detail and you have an illustrious career and you know, what you did may not ever be replicated again through your consistency and just like how successful you were, like not getting holding penalties. And again, I don't know football, like, you know, football, but I know enough to know there's, it's more than just being the biggest and the strongest and what you did right and to be able to be you talked about i watched something of you recently in terms of just like you know you talked about your track and field experience in iran track and field that was at wisconsin and just like how you leverage that and and just the subtleties of the game and how you've, what I've noticed you do, I've noticed you from afar transition that in again to your retirement, whether it's broadcasting, your fitness,

and you know, you talk about cooking and cleaning. And it's really cool to see you apply that. It's something I've, you know, related a little bit where here I have this career change, I used to sell software. And now I have a podcast, and I'm out here in Hollywood, you know, hustling things. And I attribute a lot of my success is in terms of like, you know, taking some of those skills you learned in life and then applying it just in different ways. And it's cool to hear you talk that way. Yeah. Coaches, youth coaches, high school, college coaches, a lot of times they'll ask me to come and talk to their guys right and the one thing that i learned in the nfl that i try to impart on people is like football has taught me that the difference between good and great is the details like

everybody in the nfl is good those guys in the nfl every one of those were all americans in college everyone were the best players on their team but you get to the nfl and now everybody's talented everybody's big strong fast if you want to go and go from being like a starter to being a pro bowler it's the detail it's not the talent it's how much am i willing to sacrifice and focus on the things that most people don't think are important and then taking that and if you apply that to any other area of life that's how you'd be great at anything else. It's the obsession to the detail, no matter if it's a podcast, no matter if it's an NFL analyst, no matter if it's a movie star. It's their detail that makes them great. Yeah, absolutely.

And kind of honing in on your craft and having a passion for something that you like to do, whatever it is. You just kind of have to have a passion for something that you like to do, like whatever it is, like you just kind of have to have a passion for it. And it's really cool to hear you say that because, you know, so many people, I think that's hard in life. We, you know, I've always said like, you know, so much of being in your early twenties is living up to the expectations you set yourself for when you're a teenager. And like, what do you know when you're a teenager? And then you get to this point in your life when you're like in your mid twenties and you're like, well, I don't know if I like what I do, but you're too afraid to transition. And sometimes you just kind of have to make, uh, you have to find something you're passionate and it's going to

be hard, like you said, but if I'm a big believer and if you really want something and you are willing to do the work, you can have success with that. And, uh, it's cool to see you do. And, and it's something I try to, uh, you know, talk to and speak to from my audience. And I attribute a lot of the success I've had into some of that work. And granted, there's luck along the ways, but I'm a big believer and you put yourself in positions to be lucky because you've done the preparation. And it's cool to hear you say that. Yeah, you find that passion. It gives you the desire to not round any corners and cut any corners, to commit yourself to the level of detail that it takes to be great. Because when I was a kid and my mom's like, clean your room,

I did the bare minimum because I hated it, right? But if you had a passion for it for some reason, you would do a really good job and it would be easy. It would come easy. And so finding that passion is, is huge. Like that's one of the things that, uh, you know, I have a few canned speeches when I got to go talk to groups of people and that's one of them. It's like, what's your, why, why, what's your passion? And, and if you're a football player, why do you want to be great at it? And if you find that, why, why it's important to you, you can be as as as good as you want to be

yeah um that's that's that's definitely true um fear very few people reach their potential and whatever it is they are going for and it comes down to yeah why are they doing it um what's their passion so that's it's thanks thanks for sharing that uh i remember hearing a story long ago and i'm assuming it's true but you can let us know if it's not. But talking about your career, on draft day, you were a number three pick. So for those of you who don't follow the NFL, they'll have a pretty good idea of how high you're going to go give or take people's slide. But if you're considered a top ten pick, you invited to new york when it was in new york it's a big deal but you chose to like hang out with your pops and go on this canoe and you were

like i think you were like on the lake when you got drafted and kept it really low key and then i really recently watched i don't know if you watched it the last dance with with michael jordan and one thing they they talked about one one one of his peers said what made michael jordan so successful is his ability to to be focused on the moment and be focused on the present and what was in front of him. And I'm someone who struggles with being present often. But I couldn't help but make a correlation hearing that story about your decision to do that and that ability to just kind of really prioritize what's important in your life and not. And there's nothing wrong with enjoying the moment and having fun, but sometimes those things can be distractions, you know? And like, you kind of, again, why are you here? You just talked about like the why of

something. And to me, it kind of spoke to me. I'm like, I didn't, you, you didn't want to do that. Is that, is that story true? And what was your reason for doing it? And I'm just kind of, I just, I remember hearing that and it resonated with me so much. It's funny. That's the one story that even non-football people, when they come up to me and talk to me, they're like, you're the kid that went fishing on draft day. Right. So I was drafted in 2007, number three overall by the Cleveland Browns. And at that time they invited the top five draft picks every year to New York. And you put a suit on and you get to go hug the commissioner and they, you know, tote you around New York city and you do tons of media and it's huge, you know,

big for marketing exposure and stuff. And so they try to sell it to you as a player as like, this is a great opportunity to get your face out there and, you know, build your brand and all this stuff. And, uh, it was an easy decision for me to not go. And they couldn't understand it. Uh, one, I didn't own a suit. And so I wasn't ready to pay a thousand dollars for a suit that I wasn't going to wear on my job. Uh, but outside of that, I looked at the schedule and I said, this might be the last time for a very long time that I get to spend a day with my dad fishing, which is what we used to do almost every single weekend growing up every Saturday. And the draft happened to be Saturday morning.

And I said, because once you get drafted, you immediately fly to the city that drafts you, you do media, and then right away you get into practice and you start practicing and you have meetings. And that pretty much goes straight almost all the way through the summer into the season and then into the off season. And so it's a good nine months before you really have like free time almost. Um, and so for me, it was prioritizing what's important right now. And so going to New York and putting a suit on and acting all important, that wasn't important to me. Like I would much rather spend that moment in that time

with the people that I love, the people that were a big part of me getting to where I was and fishing with my dad. It was an easy decision. Like to this day, I still love that. And when I retired from the NFL, the retirement gift I gave myself was I took my dad on a fishing trip to Canada because that's what he did a couple of times for me growing up. And those moments are memories I'll never forget. No matter how many times I get hit in the head playing in the NFL, to Canada because that's what he did a couple times for me growing up and those moments are memories I'll never forget no matter how many times I get hit in the head playing in the NFL like those moments are with you forever and really at the end of the day what do you have except for those memories yeah no that's great but I I do you think you take for granted how much perspective

you had at that age uh because like I think it's great you know but i'm curious why do you why do you think you had that such great perspective and you were what 21 22 at the yeah i was 20 i think i was 21 yeah um listen you're you're you're 35 now and it makes so much sense yeah of course yeah yeah why wouldn't i do that like, I don't know a lot of 21 year olds, including myself, who would have had that kind of maturity and again, the ability to know what's going to be important. Do you think you got that from your dad? Or do you think that's in your personality? No, I think it's definitely from my parents.

You know, that was just kind of how I was raised and, you know, the prioritizing things. And, you know know my dad was a banker in Milwaukee and so like he was Mr. Planner like he wasn't going to go out and buy a box of Ziploc bags without doing the research and finding out what was the best buy you know and so uh my wife makes fun of me a lot because I'm the same way as my dad was in that regard like I I'm not spending a dollar unless I know that this is a dollar well spent on a good quality product and uh you know it's almost like he bought a car a couple a couple years ago and he needed a new car for like two years and he had the money saved up so he could

buy it but he needed to do like the consumer research he needed to do like four test drives and I think that like level of obsession with detail also kind of rolled over into my football career I think I and it kind of helped me with long-term planning and understanding like it's important to live in the now and prioritize the now but also understand the decisions you make right now they're going to affect you down the line you don't have to worry about it but just under just having, I think, was something that maybe I had probably at a younger age than most people, certainly. Yeah. No, you definitely did.

But it's really cool. And like you said, I mean, other than the experience itself and the memories, you got to feel a sense of pride to be able to tell that story. Because you think about all the NFL players who tell their friends, they probably didn't even talk about the draft day experience. In fact, a lot of them probably be like, oh man, honestly, it was a lot of work. And you're still, how many years later, talking about it with a sense of pride to be able to make that decision. And so sometimes to our younger listeners,

think back in terms of when you have those moments of, yeah, what will you be more likely to be more proud of in the future? I think is a great way to kind of help you make some of those decisions in the moment. Yeah, for me, just thinking about what's important right now, the priority of,

I would just rather spend this time with my dad. And sometimes, you know, it's hard to make those decisions, but I've always been a person that always wants to question everything. Like, if you tell me something, I'm just very skeptical, no matter what it is. And forever, the common thought was, you get invited to the draft, you go to the draft.

You don't even think about it. But I had to think to myself, like, why is this something that nobody even considers? Like, what's the alternative? Well, maybe I want to spend the day with my family. Like maybe that's a better option. So I think just kind of questioning everything was part of it. And actually now, if you look a lot of the guys, well, this year, nobody went to the draft because of the coronavirus stuff, but in years past, it's become more common and more popular for guys to stay at home and to bring the camera into their house so they can share it with their family so they can share it with the people that they love and that they've been part that have been part of their life that got them to that moment rather than going to New

York because they stick you in a little room and you get to have like two people with you and the rest of the people are a bunch of people in suits that you've never met before you've never seen before because they're trying to produce a big tv show that's the draft and it's just not an experience that i think a lot like you mentioned a lot of guys walk away and they go you know what i think i'd rather would have just been at home with my family and friends totally yeah um you're so good at so many things i am curious are there things that uh that you struggle with and some of your bad habits you have and, and maybe things that you've even worked on post retirement that you've been able to kind of be less focused on a singular thing like as football?

Yeah. So let me get my wife on here and she'll, she'll probably have a laundry list. She's got a big memo pad of stuff on her phone. Um, know one of the things that i do struggle with is being so like um obsessed with completing tasks you know like i've got a to-do list on my phone and it's like sometimes i get lost and caught up with like just getting this done get got to do this got to do this got to do this and you get so obsessed with that that you do lose track of sometimes like your son's tugging on your legs. Like daddy, come just play cars with me. And I'm like, you know what? That is a better use of my time than to check off some other list that I got back to somebody about an email, you know, like something that in, in that moment you feel is really important. Cause you just got to keep up with things. You got to be responsive. You got to

do all these things. You got to check them off the list. But maybe just slowing down and making that time for your kid if they want to do something with you or a friend that calls and you're like, you know what? I haven't caught up with that person for a half hour. I got all these things I got to do, but those can wait. I'm just going to take a half hour and shoot the breeze with a buddy or grab a beer with them after they're done with work. Sometimes those little things i i think i lose because i get so obsessed with like get this done gotta do gotta go go go go yeah no i can i

can relate to having a an obsessive personality that's just finding that balance it can be tough yeah it really can and i'm i'm thankful to have the the personality that i have because it's allowing me to be successful in some ways but then sometimes you're just like oh wow i need to yeah i need to chill out man i'm way too into this no you're right and like from your perspective i imagine like you have all these opportunities to do radio interviews and tv shows and you get all these opportunities like oh it's too good of an opportunity i got to make it work i got to fit into my schedule and pretty soon you you turn back six months later and you're like well i'm doing way too much like i gotta make time for some of the stuff that truly makes me happy like that stuff can wait

like i don't have to do all of that stuff you've got to find that balance definitely it definitely is about balance and and um i i have tried to i think what I do attribute to having some success with, you know, again, I have a great parents who gave me a lot of great values growing up. Maybe it's our Wisconsin Midwest thing, but to not always be caught up in the moment of like the bright lights of an opportunity. And I attribute a lot of success I've had in this world to my ability to say no to some things rather than say yes to them. And again, to, yeah, I've made a lot of great new friends. And some of them are, it's almost like, wow, I can't believe I'm hanging out with this person. But I like last Friday, I played cards via zoom with all my buddies from Wisconsin, and I had a great time and,

and having those people in your life really kind of um you know you always have to have those grounding personalities in your life yeah no doubt which is always nice i'm really bad at racket sports too so if you play me in ping pong you will definitely smoke me really i'm okay tennis basketball terrible really i i'm pretty good at racquetball don't bet me in racquetball or actually you probably would want to but i certainly will not um for our for our bachelor fans uh out there i do i mean the reason why joe and i connected was uh i noticed joe followed me on twitter after my season of the bachelor and i was just like oh my god i followed him right back and

i was like oh cool um and people sometimes always ask me like cool moments or people you've interacted with as a result of being a bachelor. And for me, it's been getting access to some of the people I've fallen in the fans of. But you've been an avid bachelor watcher. Are you still watching? Are you still a fan? I'm a huge fan. I've been a fan for decades. Like since I was in high school, I've been watching the bachelor and all the iterations of it. Um, actually, uh, my agent and Mike Fleiss,

the creator had been friends for a long time. So, um, had a chance to hang out with, uh, Chris Harrison and all those people behind the scenes that have been part of the franchise for a long time, just through my affiliation with them and football. um i love the i love the series i love the show i love bachelor in paradise i love all the different uh little shows that have popped up off of them and yeah that's that's how i became a big fan of yours so uh it's pretty cool how those worlds kind of come together it is i've actually i was doing i was doing a football podcast and they asked me about it but uh now more than ever i've kind of approached the bachelor being a sports fan and especially when i cover the show it's like all right fine i'll talk about it but

it's like a sporting event and you know you have the sports mentality you're a football analyst when you watch the show do you find yourself, like I do, like breaking it down almost like a game in terms of like, all right, this is this character, the interpersonal relationships that are going on and have a critical eye? I do. I find myself doing some of those things and then I like have to snap out of it. I'm like, dude, you're supposed to be watching this to relax,

like chill out for a second and just enjoy the arguments. Just enjoy the drama, okay? And so I kind of have to take that step back and get out of like the competitive mode that sometimes I get into a little too much. Yeah. Are you, now, like you said, you've been watching since high school. So this is not like a case of your wife got you into it.

You were a fan on your own? I was a fan before we even got together. So I've been watching the trashy shows for decades. I love that. Um, you know, a lot of, a lot of,

that's true of a lot of guys, but most guys will blame it on their, their girlfriends or wives. They're like afraid. It's not cool. I'm not manly to watch it. Yeah. No,

this is awesome. Check it out. All these babes, you know, this is, this is a great show. Uh, what were some of your,

uh, uh, favorite characters or favorite seasons, uh uh in terms of you being the historian that you are yeah well i wish i could say i had a great long-term memory but the nfl took that from me and so um i i have a hard time recalling like all the individual things uh that have gone on on the different bachelor but um some of my favorite were like um ashley i i'm trying to remember like um and like the the real kooky i shouldn't say kooky because that's not very nice but like quirky interesting personalities because i've always had a really broad uh base of friends

from like different walks of life because i find interesting people that do things that are different than me really fascinating and i love hanging out with them and it's the same thing in the bachelor like uh i really am kind of drawn to those characters that are very different and they're really out there and to me that's what makes life fun it's just like the uniqueness of everybody's personalities i i love that you say that and honestly i've noticed that about you again from afar in terms like you you yourself are a very interesting guy. Like if you again, if you've, if you follow Joe on Twitter, if you watch him as an analyst, he's, he's quickly become known for his puns, which honestly, if you were a bachelor producer, Joe, they would love you because they love a good

pun in bachelor world. Yes. And you're, you're really good at that and so like you you can definitely tell that you have a curiosity be a curiosity about life and are drawn to things that are different than you and that's something that's always been important to me and something i valued so i think that's why uh i've personally i've become more of a fan of you outside of the nfl um in your retirement than as a football player, just because like as a football fan, I'm like, wow, that's, you know, you for me, every offseason, it was like, well, I think maybe, maybe the Packers could trade for Joe Thomas. Like, you were always on the trading block, as you know, even struggled for a while. And it was just like, you know,

as a football fan, that was cool. He's from Wisconsin. Maybe he'll come play for the Packers. But as a guy outside of football, you've really kind of blossomed into someone who's really interested about life and been a reference for people who are the cross between football and just interpersonal relationships. It's been fun to see you kind of embrace and follow along. Yeah, it's been fun getting the microphone in my hand and especially on live TV

because you talked about the puns and each week on Thursday Night Football, we, on my podcast, The Tomahawk Show with Andrew Hawkins and like my family and friends, they would all submit like, hey, you got to say this on the show. You got to fit this into the show this week.

And then we'd get live TV Thursday Night Football and I would try to fit the catchphrase into the broadcast somehow. And like, we'd get to the point they'd be like, Oh, they're going to fire you. If you say that, like you really can't say that.

And I would try to slide it in there and I'd always look over to my producer and just see like what his reaction was, but they've actually been really cool about it. They haven't gotten too upset with any of the things I've said. And they've, they've actually like got into it a little bit and started to put together clips and highlight reels of all the, like the funny or not funny catchphrases that we've thrown into the broadcast

throughout the season. So it's, it's been a lot of fun. And I think that's really kind of what got me into the Titan games, which is the, the TV show that I'm on right now on NBC as they're like, Hey, you know,

we kind of like the quirkiness of your personality and your athletic background. And you know, if you could put those two together, that would make for good TV. So I'm like, ah, let's go, let's do it. So, uh, yeah, you mentioned that I saw, I w I saw that you like one, uh, I don't, I don't know if it was a one-off thing, but, uh, I saw the clip. It was fun to watch. I gotta say, give a lot of credit to your competitor because at first it seemed like you're gonna blow him away and man he almost he almost got you at the end yeah especially with the uh with the axe chop he definitely had better form

than you and yeah i mean he's a firefighter yes i'm very very embarrassed by the finish of that race so yeah the titan games i think it's going to be like 10 weeks. They produced it. We filmed it in Atlanta at a big movie studio in Atlanta in February. And then they chop it up and they don't even tell you how it finished, right? Because they don't want any spoilers and they don't even really know how they're going to put all the episodes together. And I was on the first episode last Monday against firefighter Matt Chan, who I keep telling people like guys it

was a close race and you're acting like i should have blown him away because i'm a former pro athlete and he's a firefighter but dude was number two in the world for crossfit games a couple years ago oh was he he's one of the fittest people on the planet and i'm basically doing a crossfit obstacle course so if anything he should be blowing me away yeah totally yeah to hear he was number two in the world in the crossfit challenge like you're kind of actually getting screwed here because there's a level of expectation that people are putting on you no doubt to be to be number two in the crossfit games is an insane accomplishment uh and the level of fit and he's definitely more trend he's he's definitely more trained for the Titan games than you.

No doubt. Because in football, I'm used to training for three to five second spurts. And then I got 35 seconds off to take a break before the next play. With the Mount Olympus on the Titan games, it was like three and a half straight minutes of all out effort, which is what CrossFit is. And I'm not trained for that at all. And on top of that, I'm really big.

And it's really hard to get in those little cages that they make you crawl through. And then the big mistake, like you mentioned at the end was I didn't pull that 300 pound ball and chain far enough. And so when I was trying to swing the sledgehammer, which I'm actually really good at, cause I've been swinging an ax and a sledgehammer since I was a kid. I didn't have enough chain to actually swing it. And so I make these like little pedestrian, like short chops at the concrete, and it just looked terrible. But I did get the win.

So thankfully, I was still able to pull it out, although it was a photo finish. I'm way more impressed with the victory after having found out that he was number two. Yeah, Matt Chan is a total beast. And you go into those things, you have no idea. You have no concept of what you're going to do, of how you're going to be at it. Like, if we were going to go and do a tv show and i was going to be blocking people i'm like okay i'm pretty sure that there's not going to be many people who are going

to get by me i'm pretty good at blocking i've been doing it a long time but hey you're going to do an obstacle course fitness challenge i have no idea how i'm good at i know i'm in shape but how good of shape i don't know? I don't know. And I don't know anything about my competitor. Did you get a run through like of the course or the first time you did it? Was it all like a first time? It was the first time. So the day before they bring all the competitors out there and they show you the challenges

as far as they have like a stunt person kind of showing you all right this is how you pull the ball this is how you climb through the cage this is what you're allowed to do with the um you know jungle gym thing this is how you can throw this block like they kind of give you the rules but they don't want any unfairness they don't want anything because it's a hundred thousand dollar prize to the person that wins they don't want anybody who loses to say, well, it wasn't fair because this person got to try it a bunch of times before the race. And so the very first time I do that course, you're watching it on TV, me versus Matt Chan, both of us very first time. And so there was, there was a big learning curve to it. And as I go through the episodes and the season,

you'll see, I get better at it because you start to learn like the best way to do all these different things but it's a big challenge not knowing what you're going to do so we get to see more of you on there'll be some more of me yes i'm i'm excited because my kids are finally excited about something that i do because they didn't care at all about football when i was playing football and so i finally found something that they're like yeah dad that's cool and then 10 minutes later they're yelling at me and they don't care anymore but for that 10 minutes I'm a super dad uh how was it working with the rock I mean I know he was a football player and um you know uh yeah I mean I have heard he's nothing but

a great guy uh how was it how was it working with him unbelievable. I mean, he's the biggest entertainment star on the planet right now. And his story of going from being a defensive lineman at Miami to becoming maybe the biggest WWE star of all time to becoming now one of the biggest movie stars of all time is just incredible. I have so much respect for him. And it would be easy to think that he would be a guy that has an enormous ego and has no time for anybody. But as soon as we got on set, he comes right up to all of the competitors and starts talking to you like he's known you for 10 years. It's just amazing to see somebody with that amount of success still be humble and be a regular person. And it's pretty

awesome. I mean, working with him is is the best that is i've heard that about him and that is something um that i you hear that and it's always a reminder to yourself um to to know your place and it's always cool to hear did you did he has he ever did you ask him does he have has he done any of those courses well that was one of the things that I talked to him about when we were shooting the breeze. I was like, hey, man, when do we get to go at each other on Mount Olympus? And he's like, oh, I'm 48 years old. You kicked my butt. And I realized at that point, I'm like, holy shit, this dude's almost 50 years old, and he is way more jacked than I am.

He looks unbelievable it is amazing that the rock is almost 50 years old and he is still kicking ass and taking names just totally incredible you definitely i i forget about that he's a bit he's a bit timeless uh in that regard so it's incredible uh it's cool that uh you've had that experience and i'm actually i didn't realize you're gonna be on it more so i'm'm actually excited to watch it. I'm definitely going to be tuning in for it. Before we let you go, Joe, we play this game with our guests called Do You Know Me? It's a pretty simple game.

I'll ask a question. Chris, you and I are going to guess the answer. So don't answer right away. Wait, you're asking a question and then you're going to guess the answer? Yeah. About me. Okay. Yeah.

Does Joe do X? Okay, perfect. And then I confirm. All right. And then you confirm or deny. If you have an anecdotal story about your answer, feel free to share. Perfect. No obligation to tell an anecdotal story.

All right, perfect. And then we'll see who knows Joe Thomas better. Love it. and then we'll see uh if we know who knows joe thomas better love it do you know me with hall of fame offensive lineman joe thomas are you officially in the hall of fame yet or uh so you need to be retired five years to become eligible and this was my second year out of the nfl so i've got three more years before i get to find out if i get the thumbs up or thumbs down joe well i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Joe will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Thank you.

All right. Do you know me with Joe Thomas? Number one, I'm actually curious about this. Can Joe do a cartwheel? Ooh. Can Joe? And by cartwheel, I want to like, for example, I can't do a cartwheel. It's on my bucket list of things I wish I could do, but I can't.

Could you like, could it look, are you straight up? Like, yeah. Or like if I do a cartwheel, my legs are like hanging. I don't, I don't know how to, I don't know. I've never been good at it. I'm going to say, I'm going to say he can. I'm going to say he can't. I cannot do a cartwheel.

So I'm like you, man. The legs dangle and it's not pretty. Although I haven't tried since I lost my weight. So that might be a maybe. Although for some reason, I'm still a little bit of a security cat of going upside down and i think that would limit i think that would limit me from being able to get my hands or my feet in the proper cartwheel form yeah so it's safe to say if you like walked outside right now and did it you would look like i did it would be you could work the neighbors would call the cops and the emt and have me carried away because i'd probably die. Well, now you can put it on your to-do list. There you go.

I did want to learn how to do a handstand because I'm a big yoga guy. I really love yoga. And I always get so jealous of those people in yoga class that just pop right up into a handstand and hold it and act like it's no big deal. And I was actually making some good progress. And then the coronavirus hit

and I haven't been to yoga in three months. And so now my handstand challenge, my handstand journey is on pause, unfortunately. Well, this is a nice segue into our next question. Has Joe ever done a keg stand? Now, we've learned that Joe is not good at handstands or cartwheels, but he did go to Madison and he definitely had a few beers. I'm going to say he's definitely done at least a keg stand because you have the assistance of your peers.

I'm going to go say yes. I'm going to agree. I think he's done one. Absolutely. Absolutely. Nick, you would not be able to hold my legs up for a keg stand due to weight and size restrictions. However, you get three big, burly offensive linemen

and you can have a good time with a keg stand. There you go. All right. Question number three. However, you get three big, burly offensive linemen, and you can have a good time with a keg stand. There you go. All right. Question number three. Does Joe prefer cookies, brownies, or cake? Can I ask a question? Yeah. Just for clarity's sake.

Does it come with ice cream? All of them can come with ice cream? All of them can come with ice cream. Let's assume that all of these come with ice cream. Okay. Well, if it's with ice cream, then I'm going to go... I would say cookies for me if I were to answer that question. But if you're going to add ice cream, then I like a good brownie with ice cream. What's the moisture level of the cookie it's soft it's like very super soft super joe however you

so any i can cook or buy any cookie i like it okay i'm gonna say cookie then yeah i'm gonna say cookie then too okay if it's like those perfectly warm deliciously soft and buttery chocolate chip cookie i'm gonna say a cookie but if it's just a standard run-of-the-mill cookie or brownie with ice cream i would say brownie so joe if you make your way to milwaukee uh and this is someone who thinks my mom makes the best chocolate chip cookies in the world. But if you go to the metro market in Milwaukee, they have the absolute best chocolate chip cookies. It's the place that sells cookies. Their chocolate chip cookie is the chocolate chunk. It's absolutely incredible. And everyone I bring to Wisconsin and give them, they're like, they'll take one bite. I'm like, this is the best cookie I've ever had in my life.

I don't go home to Wisconsin without first going to the public market. I'm doing it. My parents still live in Milwaukee, in the Milwaukee area. And when I visit them next weekend, I'm going there. I'm getting two cookies. And if I have to bring my own vanilla ice cream, I'm doing it. Because you put it right in between and you eat it like a sandwich if you want a perfect day you first first go to the margarita paradise for tacos and and and then get dessert at the cookies place right behind you it's it's really good done what kind of tacos uh i like i just like they're all beef but they have all kinds their pesto and

their steak are really good uh everything you got to get you got to get three tacos that's how you have to do it and you have to get one of each protein there you go al pastor beef and chicken perfect you won't you won't regret it tell them i. They know me. I'll tell them Nick sent me. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, probably. All right, question number four. Has Joe ever made out at the movies at any point in his life? I'm going to say yes. He's a romantic.

He asked his now wife out, leaning up at a scooter and called her honey. I'm not saying. Oh, yeah. At one time, that was like the move. And Joe's like, you know, we're relatively the same age. That was kind of, I don't know if it gets what the kids are doing these days, but like when you were young, you'd go to the girl, you'd take your girlfriend to the movies,

and like with five minutes left in the movie, you'd like lean over and make out for a few minutes. It seems so like impractical now but uh i'm gonna say joe has definitely done that once i'm gonna say he hasn't done that contrarian i have you're exactly right nick it is the move from late 1990s right yeah it's you go to the movie and about halfway through the movie you throw the arm around right yeah so you're right because going from just like sitting there to make it out it doesn't work you need a transition zone so the transition zone is you throw the arm around and then you start snuggling her a little closer and you hit it on the head five minutes left

because that gives you an end point that's not awkward five minutes left you go in for the kiss and if she denies it then at least the movie's almost over and you can leave and it's not you don't have to sit there and shame for another hour and a half but yeah you're dead and like honestly you don't even care about the movie because the whole reason you went to the movie is to make out for some reason because absolutely yeah um all right uh i think uh i think uh i mean, oh yeah, here we go. One more question. Can Joe name five cartoon shows? I'm gonna say absolutely yes.

He's a father of four. Yeah, I agree. I agree, he can do it. And you seem like you probably enjoyed a good cartoon in your younger years. There's adult cartoons too. Yeah, so I'm hoping I can name five. I was not a big tv guy growing up uh my kids obviously you

know they they get their screen time um especially when we're traveling and so they love cartoons so doc mcstuffins that's a big one right um uh bugs bunny from you know my youth winnie the pooh was was always one of my favorites and it's cool because my kids kind of got into it a little bit um uh of course three not very good right now uh spongebob squarepants that one's been around for a long time and um there's so many uh you're worse than i thought at this oh my god i'm so bad i really really am bad at uh remembering things like this i feel i i'm glad i asked you ninja turtles like superman spider-man that's got to be a cartoon yeah yeah you got it but you definitely you struggled more than i thought you did yeah i've struggled mightily because usually as soon as the cartoons come on i'm like

zoned out i'm like oh um joe i i appreciate you taking the time to talk to us it's been a lot of fun certainly for myself and i i hope those listening uh enjoyed uh the conversation with joe and and learning about his life post-retirement, being a father, a dad, a great husband, and certainly a guy with swag. Who knows how to find a wife? No, I love those stories. It was so endearing. And if you're not watching it on YouTube, you're just listening to it to see Joe light up from talking about his wife

is, I think, something all women want when their husbands talk about them. And I think all guys want to feel when they're talking about the person they love the most. So I appreciate you sharing that story. That was pretty cool. Yeah. Thanks for having me on Nick. Hopefully I get some brownie points for this one. I know my wife's a big fan of the podcast and it is true though. I feel fortunate every day when I wake up and like, yeah, still fooling her. One more day in the books. That's pretty cool. Where can people find you, Joe, on social?

And I know you have a very successful podcast of your own in case people want to check it out. Yeah, check out my podcast. It's the Tomahawk Show. We talk pretty much mostly NFL football. So if you're into NFL football, it's a great one to check out. I'm on the NFL Network on Thursday night football, pregame and postgame, and sometimes halftime during the NFL season.

I do some of their work in the offseason, and then you can catch me on Twitter, at JoeThomas73, where I throw a lot of kid stuff, cooking stuff, funny random stuff, a lot of stuff from my son, who's hilarious, who told me he was allergic to spaghetti the other day and that he was allergic to rice and then when i said um how about we put some anti-allergic powder on there so now you're not allergic anymore and then he told me he's allergic to anti-allergic powder also uh so the man is very smart especially when it comes to things that he doesn't want to eat

yeah your uh your Twitter is great. I love the video of your daughter mimicking your Titan Games challenge of spinning the table. So for all the moms who love baby content, it's not just a football follow. Yeah, there was a good one that I threw on there a little while ago. This was right at the beginning of the quarantine when we started started the homeschooling and my wife didn't even notice it but like all four kids were screaming at her at the same time and she was just like like going

nuts on them and she had a like big glass of wine it was like right in the afternoon and i was like videoing and i just looked at my i looked at the phone i said this quarantine life is crazy and uh everyone could relate instantly that had kids at home that were off of school that were driving everybody nuts yeah um yeah that's great you're uh you're a very entertaining guy joe and i really really appreciate the time so congrats on all your success and i really look forward to seeing what's next for you i have a feeling it's going to be a lot of great things. So it's been really fun talking to you. I appreciate it. Cool, Nick. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on, man.

All right. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for listening, guys. We appreciate you always tuning in. Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K for your questions for our Ask Nick episodes. And until then, we will see you on Monday.