The Viall Files - E140 Bachelor Recap & Hot Goss with Jared Haibon, Tanner Tolbert & Brett Vergara

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

This week Nick and Krissy are joined by Jared Haibon & Tanner Tolbert as we recap the Recap of Kaitlyn Bristowe’s season. Friend of the show Brett Vergara also joins as we first take a deep dive into the casting of Matt James and the initiative the fans started for more diversity in The Bachelor franchise. Make sure to hang in there as Nick continues to drop more details of his and Kaitlyn’s relationship before and during filming that you did not see.  "That break-up was my best TV moment." Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:  HIDRATE SPARK: hidratespark.com/viall NOOM: noon.com/viall  ISSU: issu.info/viall RITUAL: ritual.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files bachelor recap and hot goss edition uh i am your host nick joined by my producer chrissy chrissy are you doing? I love the hot gossip. I don't know why it makes me happy when you say it. I mean, it's just like, you know, listen, obviously, as the host of the show, I am personally more invested in our Wednesday episodes with our great guests and our ability to learn from them and have conversations, as well as our Ask Nick episodes on Mondays to learn about our audience

and talk about relationships. But I get it. Like, listen, you know, I come from this world of The Bachelor and it is fun to talk about and- Reminisce with your friends. But it's just like, hey, I'm still doing this. All right, I'm still, here we go. It's the hot gas, man go it's the hot gas man

it's the hot gas um we got a nice little lineup we thought we'd do it as a little differently being a obviously recapping caitlin season of which i was a big part of uh as well as my friends my dear friends jared haven and um and uh tanner what the fuck is tanner's last name tanner tolbert fuck and then uh and then i actually asked my friend uh brett vergara to come back uh for those of you don't know uh brett is a bachelor super fan he helped us recap i listen to your heart but he's also was a big part of the diversity initiative that you saw last week that uh floated around um bachelor nation and got a uh and talked about you know getting a lot more diversity um bachelor nation and got uh and talked about you know getting a lot more diversity within bachelor nation it was signed by myself and you know like

i don't know what is it up to 80 000 signatures now and then three days later they announced matt james is the first black bachelor which you know i i'm sure they had conversations before you know you you know obviously the timing was the timing was what it was. And I certainly believe that that initiative played a role. And I think that goes to show that, you know, the people can influence real change when they make a concerted effort. So I wanted to bring Brett back on to share a little bit about that initiative. And we're going to talk, obviously, about the casting of Matt. And, you know, and obviously congratulations to him and then just go down memory

lane with my dear friends with Tanner and Jared whoever the fuck I mean my dear friend Tanner I can't remember his name I was like what's Tanner's last name I don't know anyways let's just get to it

well guys thanks for joining uh on this uh very special reunion uh of caitlin season i uh i'm definitely looking forward to uh talking shit to you uh you two jared and tanner i mean that um and and yeah and talking about some of the things we watched tonight or last night or whenever we watched it. But before I do get into that, let's talk the first Black Bachelor ever. ever uh we brought uh our good buddy brett on um because uh brett is one of the brainchilds behind um the diversity uh campaign or diversity initiative that you saw uh around bachelor nation this past week and you know who knows uh how much of that played a role in them announcing Matt James this week. But to say it played no role would be probably inaccurate and insincere. So I thought it would make sense to have Brett on and obviously maybe shed some light on that initiative and who was really behind it.

on that initiative and and who was really behind it and listen we're experienced a lot in this country in terms of uh a society and and with the uh protest it just goes to show that uh when people rally behind a great cause you can make a difference um you know it's that's undeniable to have this campaign um and this initiative come out and then four days later literally um were casted the first uh black bachelor so uh props to you brett but uh yeah i wanted to just have a discussion with you guys and uh maybe brett you could uh i mean tell us how this all started and you know your initial thoughts and then we'll kind of get into the casting itself yeah sounds good

well first off thanks for having me I it's funny now meeting Tanner and Jared through zoom because you know we're familiar with each other just through the Twitter sphere but pleasure to be on with y'all. But yeah.

Thank you. All the meme-age. But yeah, so as for the campaign, it's the Bachelor of Diversity campaign. And yeah, it's been a very wild experience. I do want to, and we'll get into this, but I'm definitely

not the only one. I think there has been some confusion in the press about it. It's like, oh yeah, Brett started it. Brett is like the sole brainchild. Because it's mainly been me screaming about it, either on Twitter or in the DMs, Nick's, yours included, to try to get it pushed by as many contestants as possible. And I really got to thank you and all the other contestants who shared just because I know it's a very dicey situation. You know, you're all part of this franchise and it doesn't mean that you can't be critical of it. But there is that hesitation and not really knowing what you can should do all that. But, you know, again, really thank everyone for their support in that.

But yeah, no, so it actually started in a Facebook group that I manage. It's called Brett's Bachelor Buds. We mentioned it on Listen to Your Heart Recap last time. So it actually started with this woman, Chloe. And she was just very frustrated with this franchise that she loves, that we all love, that brought us all together, whether it's in this Facebook group that I have or on this podcast. We just wanted it to be doing a better job, right? I think it's easy to acknowledge the steps the franchise has tried to take,

whether it's with Demi and Christian's representation of their relationship on Paradise, you know, whether it was casting Rachel as the lead years ago. But I think we can all acknowledge that they're not doing enough. We're all just venting in this Facebook group and coming up with ideas that we'd like to see. And then Chloe as well with some other people. I'd actually love to shout out their first names really quick because I do want them to get credit for the amount of work that they've done here. I'll just do first names just to keep it simple.

But we've got, well, me, you know, we're here. Hi. And then we've got Ayana, Rhea, Chloe, Emma, Lauren, Sam, Rosie, Lee, Tomiko, Daniela, Hannah, Anna, Ariana, and Rachel. Ariana and Rachel. So I've just been really inspired by these women coming together. And some of them are PR professionals. Some of them are visual designers. Some are marketing specialists. And they just, yeah, a lot of them, like they, they're not in media. You know, I don't think we have anyone really in media or no one who's like covering the franchise as their job by any means. But yeah, they just wanted to put this together and try to make a difference. And then once I saw them actually putting a Google Doc together, I was like, oh, shit, like they mean business here. And they started getting on my radar a bit more.

So then at that point is when I jumped in. I was like, hey, this is really great. I'd love to help in this is really great. I'd love to help in any way I can. What can I do? So then we went over, you know, we were probably at like six or seven asks in the petition at that point. And we just wanted to keep adding because at first we were focused on on-screen representation, which matters, you know, really, really matters a lot. But at the same time, we wanted to address that that's not enough. You know, like we've had on-screen representation, Nick, on your season, as we talked about, and that was great to see.

We've had representation with Rachel. But we don't want this to be half-assed or just kind of like checking a box and then we're done because there's a lot more to it. just kind of like checking a box and then we're done because there's a lot more to it. So we wanted to include things like having more BIPOC producers, casting, post-production, literally everyone, just to feel that those contestants were supported. Also, I know that we're throwing out BIPOC a lot and some people might not be familiar. That's just Black Indigenous People of Color, just to be a little bit more inclusive of a term um so yeah then we were throwing that all together and once we feel like we were ready another big part this part of the reason this came up was going into greatest of all time right which we're here to recap and we'll have fun, you know, recapping it later, I'm sure. But, you know, with everything going on with the world right now, with George

Floyd, Breonna Taylor, you know, Amar Aubrey, it was just very hard to go into this season and not acknowledge what's going on in the world and yeah i mean it was a really bad it was really bad time it was dumb luck and bad timing sure to have this go on obviously they decided to do this to highlight your greatest seasons and given that every single lead that they ever had was white other than rachel it just yeah the optics don't look particularly great and then you have rachel season not be part of that recap now logistically and i don't know why the bachelor doesn't just say this but they don't have i don't know how the licensing works but they don't have the licensing to have rachel season be part of the lineup which is also why you're not seeing

emily maynard's season which clearly that would be uh easily in one of the greatest of all times and they're not airing that and it's a licensing issue that's that's really that's that's what i heard from multiple reliable sources i mean that could potentially not might not be true but um i'm i'm pretty sure it is i've heard that floated around so they don't even have the ability to do that that being said regardless even if it was season it still highlights how white um it has been and it the optics just don't look great yeah well we live in a digital world people and obviously we're always looking for great and efficient ways to put out exemplary content i don't even know if i said exemplary right but i'll tell you what issue is a new platform that I am

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for whatever reason and rachel references on her podcast clearly the company line is to just no comment literally everything they just never comment on anything um which i think maybe worked in the past you know that's kind of the old school kind of pr method just you know don't comment like let other people comment but we live in this kind of new age of of of information and social media like no comment no comment no comment and it's just like you know, now you have these alumni like ourselves or specifically Rachel who are, you know, want to speak out and the optics look like Rachel speaking out against the franchise, you know, and that sucks too. directly or hearing from abc uh have them like speak up about things that go on in their franchise so that their alumni's don't have to um quite honestly it's an annoying burden yeah yeah i think this initiative will set changes like that just with with public statements and it'll make deeper changes because i do think maybe matt james was on the radar to be the lead this upcoming

season um For sure. Until maybe the whole cameo Claire thing maybe blew up that storyline. We can get into that later. But I do think that this, instead of them just slapping a bandaid on it once a decade and throwing some lead out there of a person of color, this will actually maybe dictate more true changes for casting every season. Plus, you know, like you said, behind the camera, um, employees as well.

So, um, you know, maybe it's a blessing that it had to happen this way because it'll actually institute deeper, real change instead of just a, you know, here's a once a,

once in a decade kind of thing. Yeah. Sure. Well, that's the thing too. It's just, and I, Rachel,

um, I know Rachel, Rachel was really appreciative of the statement and it was nice to see. And there, you're going to see and you're gonna have you know we let's we can get into the casting of matt james it's it didn't come without its critics of oh well too little too late and you just got to start somewhere right yeah i think you

all agree that like if if the casting of matt james is just kind of an appeasement then it's not it's it's then that's that sucks and that's not okay. And that's, but this, if this is a one step of, of more to come, then, then it's, you got to start somewhere, you know, and let's, let's see where it goes from here. And I think bachelor nation and the alumni and, and some of the producers and, and its fans need to of the producers and its fans

need to hold the franchise accountable going forward. You know, to make sure this... Yeah, I just, I think we live, like you guys said, today in a world where people are going to be held accountable and the executive producers put out a statement because they felt like they needed to say something. They couldn't hide behind, you know, the television show like they'd done so many times.

And that goes not just with Bachelor, but with everybody. I mean, how many times have you seen white silence is violence? You know, and it's just, in today's world, you have to speak out about your views because you can't be silent anymore. And with Matt James, like you guys said, there was criticism, but you do have to start somewhere. Was it pandering a little bit

maybe but i mean you you have to you have to take a baby step before you can start you know you have to crawl before you can walk and i think it also like nick said it was the a very good uh step in the right direction to not only just cast Matt James as the bachelor, but also have a public statement from all the executive producers criticizing themselves and realizing that we all have to do better. Yeah, I think that was as meaningful as even the casting of Matt James this week. I mean, quite honestly, I would have just liked to seen that statement first and the acknowledgement. Even Rachel mentioned she was kind of critical.

The timing seemed a bit odd. I mean, see, I woke up, I'm on the West coast and everyone's like blowing up my phone. And it's just like, yeah, your first thought is like,

wow, they really, they, they really got ahead of this. It's just like, I mean, like, thank you for doing this,

but you didn't have to do it in three days. Right. I mean, like they thank you for doing this, but you didn't have to do it in three days. Right. I mean, like, they're not filming at least at the earliest September, you know? Yeah. So that part is like, okay, I mean, thanks, but all right. It's very jarring for sure. I think we're going to have a better feel about the casting of Matt James in a couple of years. feel about the casting of Matt James in a couple of years? Because like you guys said,

we'll figure out, is this the start of change or is this a one-off? And the only way we're going to really find out is what lies ahead and keeping the Bachelor franchise accountable and keeping themselves accountable. Not just a one-off statement being like, hey, we're going to

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well why not mike i mean did they not like you know matt james not even on the show he's tyler's friend i mean yeah he's built this following via tyler but like mike was literally on the show yeah i don't know what were your thoughts on that brett i mean do you i mean now you've been a big mike mike supporter i mean do you think in terms you've been a big mike mike supporter i mean do you think in terms of looking back it was just was it mike or it was just like he's like let's just get a person of color and he seems like a great guy yeah from where we were coming from i mean you know i've met mike he seems like a great guy uh you know would have loved to see him as bachelor but we also didn't want to hinge like our messaging on like, it better be this person. Cause we also realize that there's so much we don't know.

I wasn't even fully sure if Mike was in a relationship or not, you know, there's all these things. So we didn't want that to be messed up by hitching our wagon to one person. You know, it's weird. It's a weird move that Matt James is all of a sudden thrust into the,

the lead, even though he hasn't been on a season before. Maybe that's a good thing. Who really knows? This is all really confusing. I'm trying not to let perfect be the enemy of the good. I'm trying to realize that this is ultimately a good thing there's plenty more to be done but i think you we can all get caught up in like oh but like it should have been this way it should have been this person it should have yeah at this time and like but you know let's just try to keep making them do better it's like the nfl draft you really can't judge three years down the road yeah yeah right exactly nice reference

um yeah i mean it's you're always going to have its critics but overall it's a fantastic thing and uh yeah i mean it's funny because before they announced matt james i was going to come on this episode and and like almost offer a suggestion and that was suggestion would have been like i get this whole idea that we always cast from a previous season but we're in extraordinary times go against that for one season make a make a real attempt and use the entire nation is it gets someone who you think would be an excellent bachelor who is black you know and and and do that and then maybe get someone who's in already in the public eye because you know there's a story there like

they could have done that and listen they chose matt james great um but yeah that that would have i i thought that's what they would have done like take these those in these next month you know month or so and and just make that a priority to say this is what we're going to do. And listen, it's Warner Bros. and ABC. If they really want to get something done, they'll do it. They certainly have the resources. Nick, what's funny is the last time that I was on Recapping Listen to Your Heart, it was the episode after the whole cameo drama. And I remember us talking about it.

I remember us all talking about it and i do remember you saying it's like you know after this i don't see how matt james could be on claire's season so i guess you were right there you go i mean it was like it almost maybe worked out that way because i do know they were having like i do i you know i i was curious myself and they they couldn't tell me much, but they were just like, yeah, we're having a lot of conversations about it, right? And my guess was we really loved Matt. We love Matt.

We want him to be a part of this franchise, but man, that didn't put us in a tough spot as it relates to Claire, right? I think that we were wrenching. I think, honestly, they're playing, because I know, Nick, you tweeted that Matt would be a great Bachelor choice. Me and Jay had actually had private conversations as soon as the casting list came out.

We're like, I guarantee Matt's going to be the next bachelor. It felt like it was going that way. When I first met Matt was in New York and Tyler invited me to this kind of ABC tour thing they were doing. And then obviously Matt was there. And I'm just talking to these guys. I just met him. obviously Matt was there and I'm just like talking to these guys and talk, I like just met him.

And I immediately was like, dude, you gotta, you gotta get him on the bachelorette because wow, he would be what he would just be great on the bachelorette. And if all things worked out, he could be the first black bachelor, you know? So like,

um, well, we can thank cameo maybe to this too, then, because honestly that may have sped it up because how do you make him the bachelor? If he gets on there for a week or two and it has this like clash with claire and it's weird you can't right good storyline so you you can't and um no i agree i was talking to ashley about it last week

and uh both of us were like i wonder because they were going to cast black bachelor obviously that's what we all felt i was like i wonder if they're just pull matt james from claire season and put him as the bachelor because it's it's he can't go on claire season anymore and people want to see him and then bada bing bada boom it's one of those things i think sometimes the bachelor often gets criticized and i think fair too sometimes is um it's like when they put themselves in these situations they try to fix it they almost try try to fix it, you know, too fast or too quick. You know, like they,

then it's just like the reality TV playbook, right. Is to use everything, right. Whatever it is, whatever the topic is, let's use it. Right.

Let's, Oh, let's, this is what's bothering you. Let's talk about it. You know, they'll record it and then they may decide to use it or not use it. But sometimes it's just like, all right, we don't need to need to you know i think you even had that in your initiative brett

like you don't want them to almost um capitalize exploit it exploit these kind of uh the the racism that goes on as a way to like get compelling tv and i would agree to be the first black bachelor is a huge responsibility i know even rachel you know like there's she's asked questions and you know people go to her for all these things and that's gonna now shift a little bit more to matt like let matt enjoy his season and let him be the bachelor as well like have this experience and and not just be needs to be about all his other good qualities too if it's always just about his race, then I think that takes away from it. It needs to be a part about his race. It'll be obvious what's going on, but it also just needs to be commonplace

that he's a great guy with all these great qualities and let the show go on as normal. You have to bring awareness, but you can't shine a spotlight on it the whole time. What will be interesting too is that and i as a former bachelor um forgetting about all the things we just talked about you always feel like they're not really casting for you right they're casting for the show right and and part of that is this timing you know they make their last minute decisions on who the lead's going to be casting is a year-long process so they have these women or men given on the respective

season and you're just like i have an expectation of getting engaged and you're not looking for me and yet here you are casting matt james in june they won't film his season until at least late september so for the first time uh and maybe since the first season i don't know they're really going to be casting hopefully for matt which i think will be make it really interesting not only as a chance to have more diversity but like to have people who might be more from a personality standpoint uh more suited for matt which i think is a great thing hopefully for sure so um i did have one kind of segue question do you think claire is upset do you see that she made a statement about did she i was not made aware that they made this choice at all and she didn't say she was upset but it seemed like she was just like

a little miffed by it but probably i don't know if it's really claire's place to be notified i mean she is the bachelorette and that's great but she's not a producer she's not a part of production um i feel like claire's season i think she'll be fine tv and i hope the best for her but i feel like this is going to be one of the most overlooked seasons in the history of the show we already have the next lead picked out i think a lot of people are probably looking forward to that she's already got this weird scheduling and not being able to travel it's a it's a very weird it's it's it's weird in that regard i think people are just anxious to get some new bachelor content so i think there will be a level of

excitement and i do think claire will be good tv but you're right like anytime someone doesn't like the season you're gonna you're gonna see the comments on twitter or can we just like skip to matt james seasons that's inevitable but what's another interesting element is that um this will be the first time and i don't you know since we can remember that when you watch this season you know that every contestant there knows they're not going to be the next bachelor right so this idea of are they like this right reasons especially gets down to the end the sincerity of their beliefs and like you know i don't i truly believe that having done this twice and being so

emotionally invested in these you don't actually think that but even from a fan point of view they're not going to wonder if these guys are just trying to be the next bachelor because everyone knows you're the next batch you're not in yeah and that is an interesting wrinkle yeah you know it is interesting and just to comment on the claire thing uh it was i just read the article it was a source that said that claire didn't say that it was just like a source says claire was not notified that Matt would be the next bachelor and so I mean yeah yeah thanks for clarifying that yeah I just I I hope I I I hope that her experience is as good as it possibly can be it's just as a fan of the show it is a weird wrinkle because obviously part of the fun is watching who Claire will end up with

but part of the fun is always like oh I wonder who's going to be the next lead like that's also exciting for the fans but um hopefully she does good and then hopefully Matt's is good as well so uh well we uh we want to congratulate Matt obviously on being the first uh black bachelor and being just the next bachelor and um and just to the show. Hopefully this is just a step in the right direction and we will see. Shall we segue to, I gotta say, did you guys watch Sean's greatest of all time episode at all? I saw like the first half. Yeah.

I was, and yeah. What'd you think? I was watching part of it. I was watching part of it. Cause I was a little focused on, you know, the,

you know, all that, but I'll be back on board this week um i only asked because listen we were on this season so we watch it with a little bit more like enthusiasm um but like the recap of a season it was like it's hard to just get invested yeah and but it was a reminder after watching this just how good overall caitlin's season was from a just a drama standpoint there were just a lot of good stories i know brett i don't know brett you didn't you didn't watch caitlin's season when it first aired but what were your thoughts like this did watching this recap make you want to go back and watch it or did you feel like entertained by it like what what i'm kind of just curious of the overall thoughts of just the the format of of how this whole series is working out yeah i mean

if anything i'm really the target audience for this spinoff you know it's just educating uh you know bachelor viewers who got on you know after a certain point, because I started with Paradise of 2016, you know, so Nick, you were the first Bachelor season I saw. And Jared, I saw you on Paradise there. Tanner, I haven't seen, I've been able to see you at all. So I got to go back. You still won't see him after Monday night. back um still won't see him after monday night yeah me and caleb didn't have a lot of connection fair uh but they they referenced your ability to narrate what was going on in the house yeah yeah that's all that's all that's all i was good for that season but i yeah and you and you uh you did a drag nick for a second there too when he first showed up so you had your moment yeah these guys

were these guys were fucking assholes to me. I felt like after watching this recap... You gave him the nastiest look when he walked in that room. And it was not only that, there was a close-up of the nasty look that you gave him when you walked in that room.

Even Ben... It's your rest in nothing face. Even the great ben higgins a super sweet nice guy was just like fuck this guy what did ben say it's just like how desperate can a guy be to show up in new york i'm like how is this how desperate how is this desperate like uh i'm the only one here who showed up for caitlin so fuck you guys tanner had the line with the here you are for your 16th yeah i don't know i have a comment i made that comment 16 minute of fame little did i know nick would go on to paradise be the and here i am five years later on his bachelor podcast i'm like, oh, goodness. He's on his 37th minute of fame right now.

Yeah. That's all I got to say about that. It felt like it took five seasons to be fully vindicated from Caitlin's season. And I feel like this episode really did it for me. Because you guys all looked like assholes. No, well, and the thing is is too like kind of going back is like when i first started watching you know i i was watching with your the beginning of your redemption arc right on on paradise so i didn't have all this like weird context before and i do think going back uh to to to this episode um i i think i was definitely watching in a different lens and i don't actually necessarily think that i saw uh like every interaction that you had with

all the guys in the house so i do think you like came across fine in this episode and i was expecting it to be like oh this is where i see the nick that like has this mixed reputation and all that. But I ultimately kind of agree with what you were saying. It's like, it's interesting that, you know, to use here for the right reasons. Like I think your, your 16th minute of fame or 15 minutes that you had beforehand kind of

theoretically benefited you because it's like, yeah, I've already gotten it. So now I'm kind of here just for this person. I feel like you just got a bad rap from Andy season. And then just transferred over to Caitlin season. So people already viewed you as this villainous guy. And then it just like,

even though you didn't do anything villainous on Caitlin season, the audience just immediately associated you. Oh, totally. Looking back, I said this before, as far as my edit goes on caitlin season even i was fine with it like when you watch it back you're like i didn't you were fine i mean i i wanted to hate you as much as anybody but i as you know like one week later

i was team nick and me and you were buddies and we were talking and i was i was on your side so um after getting to know you, you're headed for me. But you're right. It was just like for the people who – that's when I went from being the villain to polarizing because a lot of people watched Caitlyn's season and thought, wait, I know I'm supposed to not be rooting for Nick, but I feel like I am.

And so, yeah, the arc kind of started leading into Paradise was towards the end of the season. I think it was pre-beard Nick versus, I think the beard is what changed it. Yeah, he really saw the evolution. He saw like, he saw, I even, I got like, I got a tan, I grew a beard. So by the time I'm at like the breakup, I was like, you know, this is the, this is the beginning of the new me.

It's all the beard and the tan, man. My fucking haircut throughout the whole hair look you started rough at the beginning but by the end your hair had it together it was getting better it was still but i still did this thing where i wore it like weirdly high in the back and it had like these like two horns sticking up i don't i don't know what the fuck i was doing um i just, I don't, I don't get it. Nick, you have such an interesting personality. You're like, you're such an interesting person.

And I, I feel that your overall evolution with, in the bachelor franchise is very similar to like, I can only speak about our friendship, but like our friendship together, because we were always friends, like even from Caitlin's season moving forward like i never disliked you but you you have this ability where like there are times nick where you're completely aloof and like disconnected like we go to lunches and like you're not even making eye contact with me you're just on your

phone but then we'll leave and be like hey i loved hanging out with you like why don't we hang out more it was really great seeing you i miss you and i'm like oh well shit like even though we just talked for 45 minutes like oh that was the sweetest thing i'll never forget one story i'll tell a quick story from our our paradise season together where uh nick is obviously very opinionated he's a a big personality. And I remember we were having this like man chat and I tried chiming into the conversation and Nick kind of talked over me. And I remember being like, Nick, don't interrupt me. Cause it was like, you, you, you just didn't notice that you were, you know, talking. Jared, Jared yelled. I know. I was like, Nick, don't interrupt me. Let me just finish my sentence.

And then afterwards, you came up to me and you're like, hey, dude, like, I'm sorry. If I'm ever interrupting or talking over you, just like, just let me know. And I was like, okay, I will. And it was just as simple as that. And I was like, all right, that was nice. Yeah, we didn't really become friends friends until paradise i think we were like we were definitely acquaintances and we had hung out before paradise but there was still like um a level of again even the guys on the on the show tanner warmed up to me pretty quick because tanner likes conflict and and tanner isn't as resistant but the is nick a good guy is nick a bad guy

perpetuated not only from the show filming but into reality of like when i would connect with these guys like i don't know if this guy you know like this um what i don't know like because like here they are you guys were all buddies with sean and sean's just be like i know he's a i know he's a terrible human being it was like well i don't know if he's terrible but like maybe we can't trust him uh there was definitely still a lot of that but uh i joked on the on the recap and they didn't air that but i was like if, if Jared knew that I was going to be standing up at his wedding when he first met me, I don't think he would have. By the way, Nick, thank you for coming to my wedding. Tanner.

Flame my baby. Yeah. I loved when they were showing the beginning of the season, and it was like night one. The Ryan McDill night? Oh, yeah. They didn't even touch that.

I'm surprised. It was Caitlin and Britt. They aired Jared, the most Jared line of all time who was when they aired jared going i mean when i talk with brit i like i want to pick brit but then when i talk with caitlin i like i like i like her too and i'm like oh my god that is so fucking jared i'm a little indecisive uh unfortunately like super agreeable and pleasant so i had a question re-watching it so

do you think we would even really know you if brit had won because obviously like you and caitlin had the connection but like making me re-watch this like what if that domino fell the other way nick's life could be completely different totally different i don't think that's what people realize and like i mean i mean like chris is doing chris's job because like they i mentioned the emails on my podcast and then i'm friends with the producers and you know they're like can we read them like sure i'm like we're not gonna share them and like i i ran it by caitlin before um i even like said i'm you know they might talk about it and she was cool with it but um it was more like yeah it was like i was all it was all caitlin so like the plan was in my head that if you guys picked brit instead of flying back to vancouver

she was going to be like just send me to chicago um i don't know if that actually would have happened but in my head like that's what we had talked about i was no there's no fucking way i was coming on for brit um and in fact that it was gonna be like yeah sign me up for paradise i might i probably would have gone on paradise and try to convince caitlin to come on paradise that's probably what would have happened uh or at least a chance so but i don't yes my it's safe to say my life is is drastically different there's so many butterfly kind of effects that kind of happened oh yeah in the show in general i mean if jared would have got sent home night one or i would like neither

of us would be married probably right now or married to someone else like there's so many little dominoes that that you don't think about um you know weeks one two three four on the show but they make huge impacts even you know as to who's the next lead and then who they pick it's got such a ripple effect on the show it's really fascinating uh it it totally is um are there any things watching uh the the episode back that you know change your perspective on on the show itself or just your own your own time on the show? No, not really. I mean, it makes me think like everything Caitlin said, she knew she was down to you and Sean from like the get-go.

You know what I mean? Like re-watching it from that aspect makes me feel like, yeah, the rest of us had zero chance. I remember. Have we told this story, Jared? Or did we say this on the New Year? Yeah, we mentioned this on our Christmas episode. Yeah, because Kyle was there. Because we were hanging out with Kyle that night. Yeah. And this was the first night Jared and I had hung out with each other post the season. It was like, hey, you know, I haven't seen you since Ireland. And hey, man. And again, we were being very friendly.

We were hanging out together, but we weren't friends yet. I would say we were friends, but we just weren't as close as we are now, obviously. Yeah. And we were all friends because of this shared experience. Yeah. And we were at this bar, my buddy Kyle. Well, no, like, you know, Jared. Yeah, that's right.

Jared, you know, you naturally talk about your experience and jared started like asking me about like what happened and i was like well i'll just fucking tell you everything and i'm telling jared and his face was just like i don't know anything you know like the perception of what like it was and kyle was watching it like almost like as a as a viewer just like it was kind of wild to like have and it felt good just be like i listen i was i'm not the day i went from being a boy to a man yeah but it was more like listen i i wasn't like i wasn't some sort of producer plant man like this was all like very real for me oh i never doubted that but when you started telling me like uh i i think nobody knew and including myself like kind of what was happening before filming and then during filming you know it's just you know you're just not pervy

to those to those uh to that knowledge you know as someone like myself and tanner could probably attest this like i had more of an investment in that season, but like, I kind of just like, just went my own way during the season. I didn't really cause drama. I was kind of left alone and same with Tanner. And so you leave and you have this whole idea of like what those moments were to you and like what everybody else's relationship was. And then, you know, Nick, when I was like, all right, I'm going to tell you some shit.

And, uh, my dates weren't like those. Where do you think your life would be today? Nick, if she did pick you over Sean, obviously, obviously this season really became,

you know, became aside from some of the early drama became Nick versus Sean. Do think like do you think you'd be living in la do you think you would have gone somewhere else like do you think you'd be married to caitlin right now yeah no i i no i don't no i don't think we were compatible um i think i don't even think we would have lasted half as long as her and sean did um but that's just my my guess um so yeah no no no regrets there like i said i actually when i watch this back um as i mentioned to chris like i actually have nothing but great memories like you know you watch the the i mean when i watched it back it was, I have a hard time not only remembering that guy because of his terrible haircut, but even just my ability to emote and express myself.

You know, I haven't seen that guy in a while. daring for me to like um because again and when i when i said it and when it all went down it was just i was being as vulnerable and as raw as possible at the risk of you guys hating me and getting a bad edit i was just like this is who i am and so like even the breakup like it's all good memories now it's all great memories like i i think back and have a really positive memory about the experience because like listen at the end of the day I don't I'm Caitlin made the right decision so it's all very positive now I mean I don't like

that breakup was my best TV moment you know it was good I don't think I could have done better it was it was more than just a moment for me and that was like I don't even remember saying that, you know, like it's, I remember watching it for the first time after,

because like that was a long breakup, but it was even longer in real life. I'll never forget. Cause I was just like, and Caitlin did me such a favor that I obviously didn't appreciate till much later because. Which was? Well, if she broke up with, let's say she broke up with me the same way andy did like she didn't let me get that close to the a proposal right like the morning of i never have that moment right it's not as dramatic um that was really the turn for me where people started thinking i i don't know i think maybe

we've just been wrong about this guy um not everyone but a lot of people and even during the proposal i remember when i she was like nope and i was like all right well i want to get the fuck out of here like i wanted to leave immediately and i was like all right cool like i just want to go you know and she was like no i want to talk about it, I just want to go, you know? And she was like, no, I want to talk about it. I'm like, I really don't want to, you know? And she kept, it was such a bizarre thing because she kept saying, no, I love you. And I'm like, kept saying like, what is going on here? You're like, you're... And she insisted. And I'm sure the producer said, you got to do this. You you gotta do this you gotta do this

he's going to be mad at you but trust me he's gonna thank you in the long run and and caitlin did me a huge service to to do that at the risk of seeming like she was being insensitive in the moment she she definitely did a she did me a huge favor because I don't think I ever, you know, you can, you talk about like, if this doesn't happen, that won't happen. I would say the same just about that moment.

I think if she breaks up with me in a different way, it's a very different, very different ending. Yeah. I think all three of us kind of have to shout out to Caitlin because if she didn't keep Tanner and myself around long enough, who knows if we make an impression in Paradise and then who knows if Tanner meets Jade and then who knows if I meet Ashley. Specifically with you, Jared, I mean, because Tanner knew his role. He came in as like a super fan. Yeah. amen is like a uh super fan yeah and i this is not a criticism or a praise but like you had no

connection with caitlin right and you were just an asset to producers being like listen here's what i'll do i will be very honest with my opinions about everyone uh i will tell you what's going on and they're like well that will get you to at least tweet six. That was my only chance to stay. But with you, Jared, I mean, you were, you had like a connection with Caitlyn and you were like, you, you really, you looked great on the season and definitely was a launching pad. You were the first like on Paradise. Cause there's always like, who's the cool kid?

Who's the prize to be won? And you were definitely the guy on your first season of Paradise. It was crazy. I went on Paradise and then Ashley was like, Jared is incredible. And then all the other girls were like, huh, maybe he is.

All right, let's go after Jared. I remember watching him being like, he's fine. He's fine. Yeah. Trust me. I thought the same thing. I'm like,

guys, trust me. Like I got news for you. I should not be pined over. I promise you. Speaking of glow, speaking of glow up, I know I get a lot of it too,

but I mean, Ashley really has done, done you well, Jared, you've gotten considerably hotter. Since it's night and day my friend i uh i look back yeah i look back and just see uh see a boy the thing is dude like i just never really took any effort into my appearance which obviously really cost me and and then luckily now i've i've been surrounded like by good friends like yourself who will give me your clothes uh i get nick nick's hand-me-downs it's very nice uh and then ashley

who uh make sure i i keep up with my appearances so it's good it's good stuff yeah me and jj used to always joke oh that jared guy's going home like one every time every time he got a rose we're like what the fuck uh yeah i love that jj always thought like he was gonna like win i was just like no uh channer do you remember it was was when i first showed up we were in new york and it was the first rose ceremony that i was a part of and at the baseball stadium yeah and um so after we snuck into that hotel i mean after i went in that hotel i had caitlin's room number i think i've mentioned this before and there were phones in the room right and so i like for whatever reason they gave me my own room in new

york just to kind of like slowly acclimate myself to like so i have my own room and i called caitlin's room and so we you know talked for uh 15 or 20 minutes they ended up catching caitlin because they got like the phone receipts and like they put a a nix to that but she had mentioned like who she was gonna send home that night and i and i remember at the rose ceremony right before uh we're walking out uh to the met stadium and i forgot how cold that was when they aired that back it was 20 degrees and we're in suits and it was windy but i just whispered to tanner and i'm like these three guys are going home watch i was like who is this guy and we line up we line up we line up and they those three fucking guys go home and tyler looks at me he's like wow wow. I,

yeah, it was, uh, uh, I probably shouldn't have said that because you, you, it's, it's amazing how quickly you forget you're miked in that world because they could have aired that.

Not that, I mean, I don't know. That probably wouldn't have done them any good by me being like, yeah, these three guys are going home and then bam, bam, bam.

Um, but, uh, I remember your reaction and you were just, I was shocked. Um, yeah, that was,

those are always, always fun memories to Jerry. We thought we had a chance. This guy's calling her in the middle of the night. I mean, I know. Well, obviously I didn't know that at the time.

Truthfully, in the moment I was like i think i'm gonna have i think there's a chance that she picks me but then looking back i was like i had no fucking uh like what the bachelor bubble is man like in the moment you're like like nick talked about you don't really think about the future you're just like like this kind of honestly having been the bachelor i look back as confident as i was about like andy season i look back and think she was always gonna pick josh yeah you know even like talking to producers it was like yeah i mean andy was really into you and there's maybe some moments where she like considered you because things were

rocky with josh but it was always josh and i think with caitlin it was uh she eventually like decided it was going to be sean but there was a little bit more indecisiveness early but like i think that like and for me it's like vanessa it was like you know i had these great connections with rachel and raven but it was like always going to be vanessa and i think you really like you're just like oh yeah you know i remember you know being on my season of the bachelor knowing what i was going through i it i definitely looked at my two seasons very differently about like you know what i guess i was just a little too caught up into it then i then i realized hey i got a question for you

fuckers uh when we were in new york who was the guy who took my suitcase and put it in the shower? Oh, yeah. Was that Corey Stanzel? I don't fucking know. These fucking guys grabbed one of my suitcases and opened it up and just put it in the shower. Yeah. I remember when that happened. And Corey Stanzel, if you're listening to this and it wasn't you, apologize but that name sounds familiar and i'm pretty sure it was but i'm thinking like for all the shit i got from you guys like you guys were just fucking dicks

uh there's like a football locker room like they're putting shit in the shower that's yeah i mean joshua's like i just don't like this guy just got a bad feeling about him it's just like it's amazing what fear can do to you uh and uh so yeah fuck you fuck you guys is what i want to say i know i'm trying to think of like other nick stories i wish i had i'm all for tanner tanner jared stories are there other moments in looking back at the episode uh that like you were surprised that like didn't get brought back up i mean well it's hard because they condense it down so much yeah yeah i wish that in the format that they did less of like the zoom skype videos and more trying to get into the weeds of the season. I personally think you miss out on a lot of the inner storyline there.

So there are definitely things. I mean, there were some big moments early on with like Ryan McDill on night one and Koopa and Tony the Healer. They're like little odd characters I wish I could have relived a little bit. Oh, God, I forgot about Tony. Yeah, and early on, I mean, I guess Nick wasn't there. He came once we started traveling but there were some big characters big characters that were pretty

funny the first few nights um that we just didn't get to relive again so little things like that little drama things i wish yeah i think it's you know it's such a tough format that what they're trying to do and it's the first time they're doing it it's like what do you focus the attention on and um pick your storylines a little bit yeah i mean you're always probably going to highlight especially the characters who are still part of the franchise in some way like even you tanner and jared and ashley and ben and myself and obviously caitlin and jason were like that guy was fun you know like fun to fun to watch, but... You know what's funny? So, Nick, you came on in the New York day at the rap battle.

And thinking back upon that, I was not on that date because that was the... You got the New York one-on-one. Yeah, the one-on-one. You were back at the hotel. I was, yeah. I was trying out my Hugo Boss tux. But anyway, you were at the rap battle. That's when you came in.

And you know what's so funny about that, looking back on my own personal life, in that audience was my future wife, Ashley, because she was sitting next to you, my future sister-in-law, Lauren, my future groomsman, Nick nick and then my sister and my best friend who signed me up for the show drove up to be in the audience that day because they thought there was potential for me being on the date so in the audience that day before i knew

any of you guys and i was pursuing caitlin was a future groomsman my future wife my future sister in law my sister and my best friend who signed me up for the show. And I was a rap battle. That is crazy. And then Tanner was, and then, yeah, Tanner, you were on the rap battle. And then another groomsman who was a part of the date. That's crazy. What's crazy is how big that room was filled with people you know,

and half of them you hadn't even met yet. Yeah. That that's that, that last part is kind of wild in terms of being there. Like if you, an out of body experience of like not knowing who in that, who was in that room, who's going to be the biggest parts of your life.

Most, none more than, than obviously Ashley and her sister. Yeah. It goes to show you that the show does have such crazy real impact. Like it hard not to just get a little reminiscent like obviously i love the show because all the drama and craziness but all of us are sitting there watching the show that's greatly impacted our lives so much and it was just fun to reminisce a little bit well that's the thing too it's just like um you know i know you know chris really overplayed these emails a little bit.

But when Caitlin was like, did I, I never got those letters. And this was like five years after I wrote them. It was fun to go back and see them. And it had nothing to do with like Caitlin. It was just like, I do have such a fond memory, even though it was very traumatic at the time of that overall experience now you know what i'm saying like i look back and watching it it was just like you know yeah so many of my friends um you know my willingness to to just do what i did um like yeah i i actually look back on like especially like going into that environment knowing that it was going to be kind of treacherous for me. I guess I do look back on that season and with a sense of pride in terms of like how I navigated that. And like, I was really just my most sincerest self. And it didn't work out that like, I actually am proud of that experience. And so I definitely have nothing but fond memories about it.

And you got your 16th minute, buddy. Well done. My 16th minute that has been going on six years now. So suck it, internet. Well, guys, I appreciate you taking the time. It's been fun going down memory lane with you guys. Thanks for being my friends and uh i'm glad i'm glad uh i showed up on caitlin season just so you two assholes could be a part of

my life and yeah honestly it was uh there's a lot of like uh you know ben and and uh well it's you know we still see cupcake every once in a while between you, you, you two and Ben. I mean, I, you know, that's three real friends I have from the show. And, um,

that's a big deal. That's a cool, cool piece of it. So, uh, not really. No. I mean,

yeah. Chris souls a little bit, you know, like I definitely way more, way more Caitlin season. I have a lot more connections from which I truly never thought that would be the case. I know. I'm really kind of like proud of that.

I like that. I don't know. Yeah. So, all right, guys, I appreciate you doing it. Thanks for listening, guys. As always, don't forget to check us out tomorrow. We have a very fun episode. We have as an enneagram enneagram i don't know i can't i still can't announce we have an enneagram expert a sage if you will in the enneagram world and we have a fun conversation

a little light-hearted episode uh we we dive into that for all the people who have heard about Enneagrams, what they mean, what they don't mean, how we can interpret them and how we actually can use them in our relationships to actually get something out of it rather than telling people you're an achiever. So we do that tomorrow

and I think you will really enjoy it. And don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. And if you're tuning in just to listen to some Bachelor goss, check us out on Monday and Wednesdays. We'd love to have you on. And until then, we will see you tomorrow.