The Viall Files - E143 Bachelor Recap & Hot Goss With Ben Higgins

Episode Date: June 23, 2020

This week Nick is joined by the one and only, Ben Higgins. They chat about why he decided to watch his Greatest Seasons Ever episode and why his fiancé will not, while sharing with us why it was so important for him to be able to speak with Olivia and why we should all send her some positive vibes. Nick and Ben also take some time to speak about curiosity in relationships and how being curious about uncomfortable subjects helps you grow and opens your world view.   "Help and not hurt." Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: LUMINESS: trysilk.com/VIALL EMBARK: embarkvet.com CODE: VIALL UV CLEAN: getuvclean.com CODE: NICK See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what is going on everybody happy monday night tuesday morning to you all welcome to another bachelor focused episode of the vile files i don't even know what like we're not like we recap the recap but ben higgins does join us and uh we have a always fun loving conversation mostly about life a little bit about his season um and some takeaways about that. I think you will find very interesting. So, yeah. I'm looking forward to it. You've got to get ready for our new segment, Hot Goss. Hot Bachelor Goss.

Yeah. Hot Goss. Just so you know, Dean and Kaylin are not married. No, they're not government married. Not government married. Yeah, that's such a Dean thing to say.

That is such a Dean thing to say. He really is owning this homeless, hot look. I mean, he's a beautiful guy, so no matter what, he looks good. He's almost like,

I don't know if you hung out with like if you've done rock climbing or hung out with like a bunch of rock climbers but i've done a bunch of that it's like kind of the they call it dirt bagging it's like the term like the dirt bag lifestyle is actually what it's called because like living out of a van living in a tent going from place to place it's like that's the kind of lifestyle and he's owning it well he does a great job i went to the beach with with kaylin and dean like a week ago and and dean and i went in the water it was brisk and dean was like well thank god you know i'm like well i don't know if i want to go all the way in it was cold and he's like

well i haven't showered in a couple weeks so i kind of need to i was like okay that's gross but more power to kaylin i mean kaylin is uh for those i mean i everyone i'm a big fan of kaylin i think she's a very sweet and and love lovely person and so i've really enjoyed getting to know kaylin through my friendship with dean it seems like she's been able to grow a lot with all the new experiences that she's doing with him as well. It's kind of cool. Caitlin's definitely the better half of her and Dean. For sure. It's not even – and I say that loving Dean.

But, yeah, Caitlin, she's very sweet. I love it. She seems nice. Should we move on to some hot goss? I love it when you say hot goss. Hot goss. Hot guys. Yeah. I don't know.

How about, okay, here's my favorite thing of the week. Just because, you know, like I know you a little bit more now, but like how many people have you been linked with in one week for dating? Yeah,

I'm not dating. The Google alert goes off like crazy. I'm not dating Andy. I forgot about that. Andy just moved to la and actually i got a text the other morning she's like hey guess who moved to la i'm like oh cool like andy and i are friends we've been friends we've been strong acquaintances over the years uh we're not the type of friends that uh you know call each other for uh or for to vent but she right now is staying near where I live and so she's like I'm going running do you want to join I said sure and you know sure as shit some

someone decided to take a photo of our backs it's one of those things where like, why do I even have to comment on this? But yeah, no, not dating Andy, but I welcomed her to LA and she seems to be doing great and she's into the whole running thing and I've been running a lot lately. And so yeah, nice to see her.

And then like Demi. Yeah, it was like Demi had a breakup and all of a sudden it was like she's dating Nick no no but sometimes when you go through you know personal experiences you you you touch base with friends yeah and then your friends are like yeah I'll be there for you you know and and and be friendly um yeah it's one of those things there for you, you know, and, and, and be friendly. Um, yeah, it's one of those things. It sometimes gets frustrating, you know, I guess it's, um, I don't talk about my dating life too much. Um, so naturally, um, when I'm seen with other women who are friends, um, there's always going to be speculation and I guess it is what it is. But I am not dating either of those two, and I'm not going to be dating either of those two.

And quite frankly, it's something I can safely say about anyone from the Bachelor franchise. They're great people. I just don't see it in the cards. I don't think I could ever say that enough where it will still never come up um on last night's episode you know they kept like asking for everybody uh to send in people like contestants and they were still looking for casting for people for claire season but i also heard that they were starting to film claire season so it's kind of weird i'm like are they still really looking for people?

Or is this really them just looking for people for Matt James? Because they mentioned Matt James as well. Listen, I think the casting process is year-round 24-7, 365 type of thing, right? They can never get too many submissions to try to find the right people for the show. So they're always going to promote it i my guess is they probably have claire's season pretty well cast but there's always a chance for a last minute

submission you know if someone comes in hot and they think they're the perfect person for a season they'll figure out a way to get them on uh claire's season uh but yeah it's nice to see that they're they're figuring out a way to uh to i'm i'm guessing i still think it's going to be like all filmed at one single location oh really yeah it's going to be on tuesday nights now i guess because it's going to be aired during football season so like they don't really want to commit well they can't well not only they can't compete like they don't have the slot. So yeah, that'll be interesting.

Um, but you know, Tuesday, Monday, whatever. People watch the bachelor whenever. Uh, and I'm,

uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I think it's cool. I'm happy for Matt in the sense that like, I think for the first time in a long time,

they're going to be casting specifically for the person, the lead. Um, uh, and that's just a benefit of them announcing him so early, which I think is a good thing. I know, like Rachel has questioned the timing, I even made it seem like not like I even said, Well, hey, listen, obviously, it seemed reactionary. Yeah. But I guess my overall opinion of that is, it has more to do, like I've said before, any criticism about the franchise, and how they announced it, that has more to do, like I've said before, any criticism about the franchise

and how they announced it, it has more to do with what they do next in terms of ongoing decisions that lead to greater progress than critiquing every little move they do in the present. Like a year from now, seeing what happens a year. Yeah, and a year from now, like what are they doing? What are they not doing uh did they live up to the things that they said they were going to do um so i guess uh we shall see uh nothing too riveting other than that hot

gas wise um let's uh should we get to ben yeah he's so great. I know. What a, what a sweet man. Make sure to tune in tomorrow. We have a fun episode with the very funny and talented comedian, Sarah Colonna. We talk about Karen culture. I thought Sarah would be great to chat about it. I've been fascinated by this kind of discussion, this topic. We really just kind of explore it. We ask ourselves questions. We have a talk. All sides of it. I don't know if we figured it out, but if you've seen it on the internet and you're curious about it,

join us tomorrow for a discussion. A culture episode. A discussion. And yeah. Other than that, don't forget to send in your questions at castmedia.com, cast with a K.

And hey, listen, we always could use your reviews on iTunes it's been a little slow I don't know if you guys hate us or what but I don't feel like you're complimenting me as much and I'm a needy you need those compliments if you like Ben

go give us five stars at our podcast how about that how about that should i and as always we do appreciate you guys when you promote us on your socials it's uh it's something that is really beneficial to the show and we appreciate it so uh without further ado let's get to uh ben higgins how many people out there love their dogs? Right? Everybody. Everybody loves your dog. Like you love your kid but you know what's crazy? You don't

know as much about your dog as you do about your kid and that is nuts. You've heard me talk about Embark before. A lot of you people have used it. You send us in the results of your dogs. A lot of you haven't used it yet, and I got to tell you, you're missing out. If you have a dog, Embark is an absolute great tool to

learn all about your dogs, their health, their age, their genetic health, what you can do to be proactive about their health, especially if you rescue your dog. That's a great thing to do to rescue a dog, but when you do, you often don't have information that you would have if you didn't rescue. So make sure to check out Embark, the dog DNA test kit. They have over 350 breed types and varieties and screen for over 175 genetic health conditions to help your vet provide the best medical care for your dog.

I don't know if you knew this, but over 50% of dogs are either at risk or a carrier of genetic diseases, whether they are purebred or mixed. And Embark can give you a leg up when it comes to knowing your dog's health history. It's also just a fun conversation starter to know about your dog. We have a producer who found out he rescued his dog, and he found out his dog's like nine years old, which is, you know, good to know. He's like a little older, which is good to know. He's a little older than I thought.

Now the next time somebody asks in the neighborhood, he knows. So right now, Embark has an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Go to EmbarkVet.com now and use promo code V-I-A-L-L to save 15% off your dog breed and health kit. Visit EmbarkVet.com and use promo code V-I-A-L-L to save 15% off today. EmbarkVet.com and use promo code V-I-A-L-L. Well, if you're watching, you see my UV clean by Home Medics in the backdrop there. Did you know your phone is like 10 times dirtier than a toilet seat? That's disgusting when you think about it. You're holding onto a toilet seat all day long. HomeMedics phone sanitizer kills up to 99%

of bacteria and viruses at the DNA level using no harmful chemicals or liquids. It sanitizes and disinfects both sides. It sanitizes and disinfects both sides of your phone 10 times faster than any other product on the market. It just takes one minute with UV clean versus 10 minutes with the other competitors. Like I said, it's a travel. I have a travel one back there.

You can take it. I bring it to my car. You can plug it in when you're at home charging. Oh, that's pretty neat. I didn't think I would use it as much. It's so cool. I'm obsessed. If you take it into your car, the cool thing about it is you bring it into your car and

it doesn't just do your phone. You can do your keys, your wallet, your credit card, your makeup, anything you can throw in there. All the things. So you're going out to the restaurant, you're sitting six feet apart, you get into your car, throw it into anything that you have right into the UV clean, and then it's done by the time you get home. All the things that you're carrying around that it's just as dirty as a toilet seat

so gross gross even with overwhelming demands for uv clean vile foul listeners can get free shipping plus 20 off a future home medics purchase just head to get uv clean.com and use promo code nick that's g-e-t-u-v-c-l-e-a-n dot com and use promo code nick n-i-c-k don't forget every time you wash your hands make sure you clean your phone too how's it going ben man it's going really good uh thanks for uh thanks for joining me dude it's gonna be back it uh we waited a while to to get me on the vile files and now this is twice in a few months so i'm pretty pumped twice in a few months you know figure obviously we we watched your greatest of all time season and then i figured we'd just shoot the shit um i guess you said you weren't gonna watch it i know on your podcast and then i saw a tweet that you said you did and cringed uh what made you change your

mind did just watch it with you and uh how did you feel um watching it yeah i would i watched it uh i didn't want to watch it and i still don't think i want to watch it but i have watched it so that's a weird place to be in just did not watch it she will not be uh it wouldn't be good for her i don't i don't think she would enjoy one second of it honestly uh why is that do you think uh i i think it's really hard so i have two theories one i think it's just hard in general to watch somebody you love uh pursue anybody else like i just think when you have to watch it back start to finish i also think there's i there's there's two more things i'd like to point out the other one is jess uh is a very confident woman but she gets compared a lot to the girls from my season and i think that hurts her

because she says things like yeah but we're together and i am your fiance and i think now when people still compare i think it makes it just confuses her mentally like hey this is my man that are still comparing all the time she gets it all the time i mean i've had good friends even not do it on purpose and make comments to her that that say things like oh, maybe you're, you know, Lauren used to do this, and you do this, or I'm so happy to see Ben happy now. And good intentions, just wrong sentiment. Like wrong phrasing.

Terrible phrasing. And then the final one is, Jess has never really had her heart broken in life. Does that make you nervous? That always personally for me made me nervous if i was dating someone yeah who who never had their heart broken yeah so it would make me nervous if jess hasn't been through a lot of grief in her life like if she doesn't have other waves of being you you know, of feeling deep pain than I would, you know, be cautious. But she has felt deep pain. She has had very heavy experiences. Just romantically, she hasn't ever had her heart broken. And I think watching that show might, I'm just worried that

watching that show might be the first time she feels that with anybody a little bit like that just like oh this sucks and this is sad and this is hard to watch like there's just nothing good that can come from her watching it like i can't think of one thing good i mean i guess but like you were a charming stand-up guy. It's interesting because a lot of... Caitlyn's season was aired last week and people asked me what it was like for me and I kind of joked about, oh, they're airing my breakup again.

Oh, this sucks. But to be honest, I watched it, especially five years removed and been like, you know what? What an overall positive experience, especially me years removed and been like, you know what, what a overall positive experience, especially, you know, me getting my heart broken and watching that back. I, I didn't mind watching it. In fact, I was like, you know what, I was kind of proud of myself in terms of how I handled a really tough situation. And I wonder if I were dating someone and like, a, like, you know, or if I were engaged to someone, um, if it would bother them,

but I did show it like I, you know, people I'm talking to or whatever, like they didn't. Yeah. They, I guess they're, I'm not, I'm not that far along with anyone that it would, uh, uh, bother them the way it bothered Jess. I guess what I'm trying to yeah i've i'm i'm being cryptic right now yeah would it bother you nick if you were watching some that happened to somebody like that you were dating if the roles are reversed i personally don't think so but i'm different um uh i think and it may have been you're the same way having done this experience of The Bachelor,

and I've literally gone through two seasons of The Bachelorette of like falling for someone while they're there dating other people. Then I become the, like this whole, and I've never been a jealous person, and I'm not saying Jess is jealous at all, but I just, I can see past that. There's an awkwardness.

I wouldn't want to see someone like make out see someone make out and sit next to them. But I don't have any illusions that anyone I would ever date wouldn't have a past. Let me ask you this, though. What would be the positives, though? Is it worth it to watch? Is it worth it? Well, listen, I get what you're saying. Upside versus downside.

I don't think like, I agree with you. I don't think Jess could watch this or a girl I'm dating could watch that and be like, now I understand you better. Yeah. And my fear too would be, even though I was proud of myself about like how I handled the Caitlin situation,

it's very easy for people to jump to conclusions and oversimplify the experience and then assume they know you too much. That would bother me. But I, you know, sometimes I have a hard time relating to people who haven't had the experience where they have a lot of questions. And I'm like, well, just fucking watch it and then ask me questions so sometimes um i try to explain um but you're right not not positive i don't see i don't i don't think jess is missing out no and like the the cool part about jess is like i think i could count on my hand the amount of times we've talked about the show together like that's that's great yeah and when it does i mean and this is like just who she is always her question to me is well then how did that make you feel or how do you think that impacted you she doesn't there's

never been a time where she's tried to dig into like oh tell me about that one time you flew on the plane and she just that's just not a part of our relationship. And because it's something she never watched. It's something that she doesn't, you know, that doesn't have a foundational point in our life. And like, yeah, we get to do some cool stuff together sometimes. Like maybe we'll go to a concert that the show has like allowed me to go to. Or we get in an interview with, you know, E or whatever it is. But there's never anything else that the show has ever done for me that she's a part of really other than just my life experiences that now she gets to to see and watch and and and be so i i

think what i'm saying is i just don't see enough upside to ask her to watch it if i asked her to watch it she definitely would watch it i watched it so i did say on my podcast i wasn't going to watch it i do have to say I was wrong. It sat in my inbox, the screener did, for a week. I chose not to watch it. I chose not to watch it. I would say, nah, this is stupid. And then I had the morning. And I know that this week, I was going to have talks with a bunch of people. So I did want to see how it played out. I also wanted to see how olivia was quite honestly because that was a big deal uh olivia and i had talked uh on the on the on the show and i wanted to see how she came off and i really was rooting for her and i just said screw it like i'm gonna watch it and i did

fast forward through a lot like i fast forward through most of the second half of the show for obvious reasons it was it just would have felt awkward and weird and i don't really want to relive it but there was really fun parts too that night one scene like it brought me back to things i have totally forgotten and really cool experiences that i'm so grateful for yeah totally i uh i recently when hbo max uh dropped and they said oh you know mining your seasons are on it. I watched the premiere of my season just for like, I just like turn it on to see.

And I was like, I just, but you're right. Watching the night one was kind of like, it was kind of fun and it reminisced. And my takeaway was, again, I didn't end up with any of the women, but like what a bunch of fun characters in a show, just like they were, it was, there's a lot of laughs and and it was it just certainly reminded me of the craziness of the night and it was it definitely took me back in a positive way yeah yeah no watching it was

good for like it wasn't bad i did spend a ton of time i don't know if you're like me but when i watch even if it's like i remember boy meets world or whatever it is from like, as a kid, I have this thing where I noticed like I stick my, I like can't watch, like I have to turn away like TV. I'm very like emotionally invested. I get very embarrassed. And so I was getting very embarrassed for myself and for the women. And like, you know, this, the awkward things, like I would say, knowing I was trying to be smooth and how terrible I was at it. And, and so I spent a lot of time looking through my fingers and like had my head in my palm, but I'm not mad.

I watched it. It just, I just watched it. I don't know, an hour and a half ago. So not mad about it. I, I forgot that,

um, Kevin Hart and, uh, I said, you, that was amazing. Do you think that like Kevin Hart was pretty big then, but he's really blown up since. Do you think he's so cool like kevin harmer's pretty big then but he's

really blown up since do you think he's just like why did i bother i don't think he remembers it like i'm sure like if you told me you're on the bachelor once you'd be like oh yeah like i don't know the guy's name but yeah he i was there like yeah looking at that experience now um knowing that dudes those two guys literally rode around with me in a car for i don't know five hours that day like and then got in a hot tub like it just blew my mind even watching that back like those are huge names i was pretty jealous to watch that back oh yeah that's right i'm like i mean i got to meet uh you know the backstreet boys which was cool yeah well i'm not and i got to meet Carl Lewis that was that was

personally really cool for me but uh yeah what an underrated date I think that's the best way like it really was and what a terrible date to have as your very first date of the season like that's my very first time dating a girl during this whole thing as the bachelor and then you have kevin hart and ice cube come in and like how am i supposed to be okay like i froze all day i froze i never not froze uh you seemed fine i mean they i mean they cut around at least to make you see yeah you know okay uh and then they had the hot tub obviously was that like what was that a grocery store or yeah like i was in a store it's it's like a it's like a hot tub store there in la somewhere like it's just it was literally we walked in i think the store might have even still been open because i think there were like customers in there and they just like had one hot tub sitting in the middle that was going that they had us get in

because it was for a movie they were doing that i i feel like had a hot tub in it yeah it was a definitely a movie tease for sure i do remember that yeah speaking of olivia i i mean that was probably my biggest takeaway of watching her obviously she got emotional talking to chris it seemed obviously very sincere and yeah it's really i think olivia um was kind of the last casualty, one of the last casualties of the show. What I mean by that, and I take some pride in this in my season, and I didn't do anything specifically,

but I didn't really have any villains on my season. Where Olivia, what I mean by casualty is the show up until that point in your season, they had this history of villainizing someone and not because they were a bad person. They just, they weren't as popular in the house or they did some weird shit. And, and again, Olivia was kind of like, well, maybe I deserve some criticism, but like, what did she really do that was so criminal to like justify some of the criticism? And it was interesting to have Olivia come back and talk about that vulnerability.

And I was just wondering if you kind of had any thoughts on that. Yeah, it's interesting you said that. I mean, I would think, I don't know if you would say like a Luke Parker would be like a villain that didn't really recover well luke parker i mean i wasn't there but luke parker did that shit you know yeah okay i see what you're saying now so like people he was a gaslighting hannah like what was olivia's biggest crime okay that makes sense that now that's good good context there so it's like hey olivia really didn't do anything wrong yet her outcome was not good like it was one of those. So it's like, hey, Olivia really didn't do anything wrong, yet her outcome was not good. It was one of those things where it's like,

I don't know how I'm going to look coming off, but Luke definitely had an idea of how he was going to look. Okay. Olivia was a villain because, quite frankly, the other girls didn't like her. That's it. Yeah. That was her biggest crime,

and that's kind of what happened to me on Andy's season, or it may just seem like. Like Chad on andy's season for some you know or made it seem like like chad on jojo season he was a dick like he was a real villain uh yeah i see what you're saying okay you know and so like yeah it's like i think uh it was you know olivia really clearly it if she had some emotional mental baggage from that. You know, it was. Yeah. So I'll say this and I mean it. I knew Olivia was going to be coming on.

I know how big of a deal it was for Olivia to come on that show. Like the recap, not the recap, not the main show, the recap. Like just to be clear, I know that nothing in Olivia's life wanted like she her family didn't want her to be there. Her friends didn't want to be there. She didn't want to be there. She trusted the show one last time. I believe that she said, I can try to do this because I don't know what else to do

because here's the truth and it sucks. And this is why I watched it. It still hurts Olivia today. Like the show, thinking about the show is not a positive experience and when i got up there on night one i was trying to think of all right i don't know how this is going to play off out i could do terrible at this we could all fall flat on her face but my only thing i i hope is that everybody leaves this including myself and says i'm glad

i did it and i i do mean this, that I think Olivia probably would be the only one that left that show, even if you're gone on night one and be like, I'm really not glad I did this. Yeah. And so for Olivia to get there is a big deal. It took a lot of courage for her. My hope, and as you just mentioned it, is that everybody watching it will give Olivia a big hug somehow, some way, virtually, or just in their minds and hearts because she didn't do anything crazy. She didn't do anything wrong. She didn't mean to hurt anybody. She was super kind to me. She said some things that were not good in the moment and some things that she definitely should have been checked on. But she didn't... I mean,

if you were around her, she didn't want anybody not to like her she was trying her hardest to figure out a process that is impossible to figure out so i'm glad she came because i do think she i do think this is a a lot do you i mean i would ask you i'm biased because i was really hoping for it so i was watching it within this context do you think it came off good for her i do honestly the only thing that kind of bummed me out but i think it speaks to how much the the the the process still affects her to this day is you could tell that olivia came on very afraid and cautious yeah and and i think she apologized too much and and still she was very careful about being like i deserve some of the criticism i know i i didn't do things perfectly and again

no one does but my point is nothing she did uh justified uh the way she was vilified as a person there is nothing i mean i wasn't there but like we've all put our foot in our mouth we've all uh and especially in that world you know she was eventually you know listen i i've defended producers and they again they they're good at making us be our most outrageous selves olivia did and said what she did but she was clearly led down a path yeah once they realized kind of her place in the house and i do think the producers have learned from that there are a lot of new people i've i do i think in their defense they're not perfect they have they have the sins of their own but they and i think it has changed um and i think you saw it on the very next season

on my season like you know corinne you could say was the villain but she really wasn't she was also the star yeah you know look at demi uh on colton's season when i was a kid i always would go to arcades and wish i would have an arcade at my house it was like how can i get the arcade version at my house i know you're thinking what can I get the arcade version at my house? I know you're thinking, what the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about makeup airbrushes. What I mean by that is when you go and you go to a store and you have these professional people doing these professional things

with airbrushes, you can have that at your home. And I've got to tell you, if I wore makeup, I would totally want an airbrush. It seems to be more over evenly applied. And like, who would have thought you could have professional equipment conveniently at your home? It just seems too obvious. Why would you use brushes?

It just, that's nuts. I mean, I've got mine and I have to tell you, I'm definitely not a makeup artist. The Luminous Silk 4-in-1 airbrush system. It's so, so, so, so, so easy. You go online, they match your color, 100% guarantee that you get a matched color. It's a 30-day money-back guarantee, color match guarantee, and it has a limited warranty.

It's lightweight, you put a couple drops of your foundation in there, and it even tells you how to do it so you do it evenly. I have two coats on right now so there you go it's really really easy and it's so easy to use you're gonna love it uh four in one airbrush system i mean listen i i wish i'm gonna start wearing makeup just so i can use this damn airbrush uh luminous air has a limited time offer for you right now go to try silk.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get 60% off your Luminous Silk 4-in-1 airbrush system. What? That's trisilk.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get smoother, fuller, and more

natural looking foundation coverage. Visit trisilk.com slash V-I-A-L-L today. But yeah, I do think Olivia came off well and sympathetic. And it made me sad that she's, you really, you're right. There's some emotional scars from the show. And that is a bummer. And I think that's why you didn't see Tia come on Sean's recap. Because it's the same thing. It was like, was she outrageous? Sure.

Was she with great TV? Absolutely. did she get absolutely thrown under the bus 100 percent yeah and so i mean i know the olivia thing and i would just say it was it's a great opportunity for us now to say you know this is four years later or whatever like it is now the time for us to say olivia you came on tv you tried your best you didn't do anything crazy wrong like welcome back we love you like can we just completely forgive and no i don't even know what we're forgiving for i think you're right even forgive almost kind of like apologize being like you know i'm sorry yeah we slide into olivia's dms and comments and being like i probably

said some mean shit to you that probably wasn't deserved yeah yeah and again i'm not saying olivia didn't annoy some of the women on her season and maybe justified it you know what i'm saying there's a difference between living in that kind of controlled environment and then then people not getting along um but it is a it is a it is a high school environment and is it a. And is it a, it's a mean girls environment. It's a mean girls environment. Even the bachelorette, I'm not even saying, you know, men are mean girls to each other sometimes in that environment. It's very clicky.

And, uh, Olivia was on the short end of the stick. So yeah, I am, uh, I am, I agree with you. I'm glad that she, I'm glad she was able to come on. It showed a lot of strength and it was definitely therapeutic. And I, you know, I'm glad the show gave her the opportunity and you're right. She had to choose to trust them. And we've all done like, I, there's not a time that the show asked me to come on for whatever reason.

And I'm like, you know, sure. Fine. That sounds easy enough. But like, and I'm a pain in the ass them. Cause I'm always like, for the same reason, like I'll never get over my first two seasons on, uh, on, on the bachelor. And, and they'd certainly have done right by me plenty of times, but once in a while, I'm just like, you know what, why did you have to do X, Y, or Z? And I'm, I'm a real pain in the ass. Cause I'm like, don't do this. Are you going

to do this? What like, and there's a level of like, you just have to be like, well, I'm a real pain in the ass because I'm like, don't do this. Are you going to do this? And there's a level of like you just have to be like, well, I'm just going to trust you. Don't screw me. And I'm glad that I think Olivia, like you said, she'll watch it and be glad she did. And that makes me happy. No, I'm with you. And that's really the biggest takeaway. That's why I wanted to come on with her. I just hope's happy i hope she cut washed and said i'm glad i did that did that for for obvious reasons yeah for sure um any other final thoughts about your season before

i just want to chat to you about life and then i mean that you and i have talked a lot recently offline yeah uh especially when it comes to the things that we're going through as a country. And here we are, two straight white men who we talk about privilege. And I know you've talked with Tyler about having this type of platform and how do we use it? How do we make sure we're doing the right thing but not even being too loud with things that maybe not concern us and you know you you refer to your season and it's five years four years ago and maybe it's a nice segue to talk about like watching it back what was your biggest takeaway that you learned about yourself about who you were as a person when you were the bachelor versus who you are as a person now.

Yeah, those are good. I need to change up your question just a bit because I think my biggest takeaway, what has led me now, is not as much about me. And so in context, you're right here. I am a white male who is straight from the Midwest. I had never left Indiana except for a job in Denver for six months before the show started. About a year, actually. Closer to a year. I went to LA for the first time. So my first big takeaway that I see now that I didn't recognize then is my worldview expanded drastically within moments like not like and it's a part of me that people do know now that i haven't shied away from but it's something to know like i grew up in a city where i thought like there was only christians like i thought that

the draft like a like only christians existed in this world like and and i don't like i really did and so same i mean i remember growing up you know catholic christian whatever and uh yeah it's it's amazing how isolated our our worlds are growing up sometimes especially in a white suburban world um you don't hear about i remember hearing about learning about like jewish people the jewish faith yeah not meeting a single jewish person till i went to college and i'm like oh i got a ton of jewish friends but like you just you you go so long your life hearing about these people and and you think it's a you know out of sight out of mind and you're right and they're it's amazing what you learn about the world

when you have an opportunity to sit down and just talk to people who have very, you know, drastically different upbringings than yourself. Definitely. And so here's one benefit that I don't think was picked up on as me being The Bachelor. I was so naive that when you watch it and you're like, oh, he acted,

like I always hear this, he acted, he just cared so much for the girls. He acted like he was so interested. No, because I was so naive, I was genuinely insanely curious about each one of their stories because I knew so little about life that when somebody would sit down to me, you see in the show a Jubilee who has just an incredible story and a strength to her that is undeniable and a story that would captivate anybody. For me and my lack of knowledge, I was so into those moments, so into their stories, the big and the small, because each one of them was unique and new to me. And I really think my biggest takeaway from the show

also exists for me today is I realized at that point, I remember it hit me that people's stories really matter and that each one of us has one and it shapes who we are today. So I need to stop assuming, stereotyping and start becoming curious because I know on the show when I was curious, I built better relationships and that stuck with me today. And so that was one thing. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it was a benefit that I didn't know a lot in a sense

because I had no assumption. I mean, I really, I was so wide-eyed at that point. The first memory, I've said this before, I don't remember when, but the first memory I really have of you is in San Antonio on Caitlin's season. And you and I were just talking. And I remember really enjoying the conversation

because you were very open even then you probably don't remember you were very open with me about like how much you didn't know and i remember even you asking me a lot of questions just about life and i was older than you and and you were um i remember thinking to myself you, Ben's a really good guy, not because of necessarily who he is, but who you seem to be willing to become, if that makes sense. Just because there's a lot of, you know, especially in that world, people are defensive and they're just like not sure who they can trust and careful to show vulnerability. And I don't even know if we were, we probably were mic'd, but we were just like sitting on that rooftop balcony. And yeah, you were just, you asked a lot of questions about stuff.

And to me, that was, it left a really good impression about your character and willingness. Because not everyone is that way. And we see that in our country now in terms of thinking it's other people's responsibility to teach us who they are, if they are different. To think our worlds are the correct worlds

and things like that. Everything we learn from our parents is the right thing. And not to go back to a church view here, but one of the best sermons I've ever gotten is actually more of a self-help one. And it's by a guy named Craig Groeschel. And his sermon's on Ask 21 Questions. He went to, long story short, he went to a doctor.

The doctor knew exactly what was wrong with him, but he still asked 21 questions just to get a better picture. And in short, that stuck with me today. It stuck with me then was stay curious, stay interested. Like if I'm not interested in human stories, I'm going to miss out on a lot of what I believe God is doing. And second, just like what people are doing. And then the next takeaway, I'd say my biggest one would be, uh, that I became more confident in myself. And then as a result has not have, I've now been able to take risks and enter

into things I never would have been able to do without the show. Uh, mostly because I don't know if there, I don't know if for me, life has ever brought me a bigger risk personally than dating at 25 years old in front of millions of people. Yeah. Do you think... I feel like there's a load of questions, but I feel like I know the answer. But how have you gotten better with willing to be criticized then versus now? We talked about it last time. And one of my biggest things is not as much the criticism as the envy because I forget

that other people... I just feel pretty alone within that criticism every once in a while. And I shouldn't. I know that everybody has it. But my inability... I still get really hurt over certain things. There are certain things... You're definitely not alone there. Yeah. There are definitely things that can still sting and hurt me.

There's moments even probably yesterday, if I could think back, where somebody has said something that has completely like wrecked my confidence and and it happens for short period of times now shorter period of times it doesn't like break me down too often but yeah i mean i think when i talked to you last i i told you like i mean i've been in counseling now for four months uh not just because of criticism also because of envy also because of finding my place in the world like multiple things but like uh i'm there because i don't want it to like paralyze me anymore like i don't want to be somebody that runs away from criticism to just not have it like i want to be somebody that stands for something and dives deep into things

I believe in. And I was losing that motivation just because I felt every time I tried to, it was worse for me than if I didn't. And I mean, what a time. It's interesting for me is what a time to be prepping myself to lean into things I care about than now. And I've been prepping for four months with a counselor saying, I really, really want to feel more confident to dive into issues I care about. Well, here in the last three months, we've had massive changes and things that we should be standing on that I've been able to do because I think a lot of the prep work happened months ago. Yeah, for sure. And I'm assuming you're referring to, obviously, the Black Lives Matter movement and things like that. That and the Supreme Court's ruling for LGBTQ community, how is I going to feel about that, especially as somebody that fully believes in Jesus. This is always a good context I like to throw because Christians aren't doing things really like... They don't show a lot of

acceptance right now. And so I do like to preface that and say I am a believer in Jesus who also believes that definitely stands for Black Lives Matter and becoming more and more educated on why and what this is all about. And also even go back to COVID. Like there's a lot of like big issues with a pandemic on like, should we send, should we just continue to run around, you know,

without any barriers and just let everybody get sick. Like I had to make an opinion on that, which typically I would have just never had one. Yeah. Yeah. Intriguing. I've been talking a little bit on this show about, I don't like talking about politics,

but what I've been talking about is this willingness to talk about things without immediately trying to politicize it. And I think you're kind of referencing this in terms of, here we are. It seems almost insane when you say it out loud. I support Black Lives Matter. I support the LGBTQ community. Oh, by the way, just so you know, here we are it seems almost insane when you say it out loud i support black lives matter i support the lgbtq community oh by the way just so you know i believe in jesus like what an insane thing to almost feel the need to have to like justify it and wow i like i i hate that that it becomes again a political debate or even a religious debate. And I think when you said it loud, how insane that is.

There's no way Jesus would have a problem. I mean, I've never met the guy. I mean, I have in my dreams. I pray to him. But you get what I'm saying. I don't want to speak for God. I mean, I guess, yeah. And going back, Nick, to even the story on The Bachelor is I guess my lesson learned was to ask questions, become curious,

to not assume, and to fall more... I want to fall more on the side of acceptance, love, and grace than I do on the other. And so I believe that is a very Jesus message. And I'm only this way now because I want to ask the questions that I've learned from the show to say, okay, you know, Tyler or whoever I've talked to recently, you're black. How has that affected you? And learn. And then it's pretty quick and pretty easy to go, wow, like this, like this, we have a lot of racism here. Like we need to stand up against this. Like, and if you don't see that black lives and you posted a something about and i i texted you but like if you don't see that black lives

just simply matter like then like you need to check yourself yeah um how has it been for for you like with um your followers and and and and and we have access to the internet and i talked last week about here i posted this fucking thirst trap picture and i see you know i'm like looking in the mirror be like am i too skinny you know um have you gotten better at you know whether it's black lives matter or talking about Corona or just trying to say the things that you believe to be true or right or just about yourself? If people criticize you, not not listening to the Internet about that stuff, because I mean, quite honestly, I still I still struggle with it. No, I don't. I don't know if I do. I don't I couldn't sit here and be like, oh yeah, it doesn't bother me at all. But I also don't want to sit here and play a victim either

and say I can't move on from it. I know what I stand for. I know that I'm learning, that I don't know everything, that I'm trying my best. I know I really want to fight for people. I really believe in people. I believe that my best. I know I really want to fight for people. Like I really believe in people. I believe that people matter. And I believe that if I post something within that, you know, context

and people don't like it, like I'm getting better at being okay with that. Um, but no, like if I posted a picture of me shirtless right now, Nick, like I would, like, I don't know why I'd be doing that, especially at this point in my life. But now I feel judged. I'm feeling judged immediately. No, no, no. I'm engaged. What my context there is like, as an engaged man, there's not a great reason for me to

be posting a picture shirtless. Okay. Um, I would be freaking out, like freaking out. Yeah. Alone. i would be freaking out like freaking out yeah alone um but freaking out i i don't think any context like any anything would hurt i'm still feeling judged right now why i posted two last week well you're not you're not an engaged man and i'm saying like you you look good shirtless like you posted i think and said like you look good naked like i mean i'm not i'm not well you say it like that now i feel very self-conscious oh geez i'm kidding i'm kidding i think you look great my point is that

if i was that vulnerable i think i would be super nervous. And I still am not confident enough in myself to do that and know that somebody could rip me apart and what that would do to me and my psyche. Yeah. So you're back in Colorado? First time in six months? Yeah. Feels good. Back in Denver. Now you're back by yourself did jess come with you she came back celebrated her birthday but she starts esthetician school to uh monday and so is that online or no in person in nashville and so she is going back so she flew back uh. And so I'm still in Denver getting the shops and the restaurants in order. And then I'm going to head back to Indiana for the fourth because the Midwest is the best for the holidays.

I got to buy my ticket. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm going to and then I'm back in Denver for the long haul. Like I was used to flying all the time. I don't see a lot of travel on my calendar for the rest of the year, which is good and bad. I don't know what that means for my future. But right now, I'm here.

And I like it. It's good to be home. Do you have an update on the restaurant business for us? I know, again, there's still a lot of with Corona. Even in LA, you see things kind of opening up. I went out to dinner with Demi and our other friend, and people were six feet apart. We had our mask.

We were hand sanitizing, trying to live a life, but still getting out a little bit. Can you give us an update on your businesses? Are things going to be getting back to normal a little bit, but safely? Yeah, 100%. So they're all open now. Ashkara and Mr. Oso are both open. And then we have one in Boulder going in here soon. But it's different because it's hard to run a business when you have to spread out people out so far. Your capacity gets really cut. Typically to run a business when you have to spread out people out so far. Your capacity gets really cut.

Typically, in a restaurant, you try to find ways to squeeze as many people into one place as possible. Now it's like, hey, how do we limit that? But we're doing fine. We're going to make it. We're doubling down on making it. We believe that the future is bright for restaurants. But my concern is for the people who aren't going to make it. And there's many of those. We're lucky enough to have a good group that has the capital to keep us open. I'm worried for the small mom-and-pop restaurants, the places

that are your favorite little bakeries and cafes. I'm nervous for those places. So we still need to be really aware of supporting them, going out of our way to go support those businesses that you love around you because everybody is hurting pretty bad right now. But we're doing all right. Mr. Oso is a place here in Denver. It's a little taco and tequila bar. I was there on Friday night and we have an outdoor patio and every single six-foot table was filled up, which is awesome. Super good. That's good to see. I know you were nervous about it.

Oh, God. There was so much unknown for a while, and stuff we still don't know. But I'm always just trying to balance life. Balancing life is tough, you know, especially in this world. You know, everyone has an opinion. It's good to listen to, like you said, listen and learn, but also have the conviction to just follow your heart and do your thing. Yeah.

And, I mean, I want to give you a lot of, like you said it, we've been, I mean, it really was a couple months ago where you and I sat down on this podcast and kind of unexpectedly started talking about envy and and just the the heaviness to seeing what people are doing on social media and on the Internet and what we felt like we weren't doing. And that led you and I to offline kind of having a conversation being like, hey, can I lean on you a little bit, especially during this time and for this whole process in general of the show and what life looks like and entertainment. And your friendship has been a lot because, I mean, it's been multiple times since then that I've texted you saying, Nick, I need your opinion on this. Nick, I'm confused over this. Nick, can you help me talk to Rachel? Just like those things. And you've been there. And what it shows me is one of the cool parts through it all is I think we're getting a good taste. And I have it with my buddies that I've known forever. You take that for granted. a good taste and I have it with my buddies that I've known forever, right? You take that for granted, but you, I'm getting a good taste of what a good friendship looks like as adults, especially in a world of that constant, you know, opinion coming at you. And I've really

appreciated it. It's made me a better man over the last couple of months and a more informed man. And I really do enjoy that. So thank you. Well, thanks, Ben. I appreciate your friendship as well. And you're right. I mean, I don't know if I've ever said this, especially the Bachelor people. The show airs, you see friendships, people posting on social, and people who go on the show now. I just say, hey, listen, you're friends right now.

You don't really know who you're going to be real friends with from the show now i just say hey listen you're friends right now you don't really know who you're going to be real friends with from the show until at least a year removed from your season um because there's just too many variables that you're that are playing into the friendship now that you don't know if you guys are even compatible as friends let And that's not to say they're good or bad people. It's just you just don't know if you jive or the sincerity of the friendships. You always sometimes are like, oh, I haven't really heard from that person in a while. How convenient. But you're right.

Talking about adult friendships are very different than friendships when we were younger. And you're right you know talking about adult friendships are very different than than friendships when we were younger and um and you're right sometimes it's just i've always valued loyalty and trust and you're right you're someone who um likewise i you know you can go to and and bounce ideas off when you talk about envy and jealousy you know i know you you're very sincere about that but um i know i've been envious and jealous of you so sometimes it makes me feel better just to hear you tell me that there hasn't been a time where you're just like i'm down and i'm like oh well at least ben's feeling down i now feel better because he's living in my world um and and and having that vulnerability with uh someone or trust, even especially with guys, you know, from man to man, just be like, can I say this to this guy who was

my friend? You know, or is he going to make fun of me or like call me a wuss or, or whatever. So it is nice to be able to have friends like that, especially people who, um, I mean, very few people can relate to me the way you can. So that is nice to have in my life. Especially during this time. And that's one of the greatest things too is, especially during this time, you need people who can relate with you

to sit there beside you and say, hey, you're not alone. I get it. We're going to work to get through this. It's important. I know you got to get going this it's important um i know you gotta get going so any final thoughts are is it too soon to tease or talk about the book you've been working on uh yeah it's too soon it's too soon well ben wrote a book so wait you know coming out someday uh you're hurting here first i will say it's like the longest you know how i mean 18 months and uh the yeah it's been a lot um but i can't go into much now soon soon biggest thing

ever done uh no i mean i think the the final thoughts are is, is really what I just hope people listening are, are doing all right. I'm seeing a lot right now, especially today. Uh, as I'm, it just feels like today's a, as a day where you get on social media right now,

uh, you kind of try to get your idea of where the world's at. And it just feels like there's a lot of, I'm getting a lot of messages to me too, of like, Hey, things feel chaotic. Things feel confusing. Things feel lonely. I don't know where to turn. I don't know where to go. Things feel like they're changing so fast. And I just... Man,

I'm with them. There's a lot of unknowns right now. And there's a lot of learning and processing and walking forward the best we can one step at a time. And so for me, it's not as much as sitting here being like, Nick, listen to what I've done right now. Or listen to what I'm working on. It's mostly what I'm working on is just trying to take the next best step all the time. And I feel like that's right where I'm supposed to be. I really feel like that's exactly where I'm supposed to be right now is just listening, learning, and trying to do my best to help and not hurt. So. Totally. I really agree. And that's, it's always helpful to hear. And same with myself too. I mean, a lot of this is saying what you're listening and learning and then recognizing, I think the most interesting thing you said, and it's not surprising,

but interesting to say, like when I was 26 or 25 years old, I thought there really only were Christians in America. What a wild thing to say and admit, but also honest. And I think you're not alone by thinking that. And being Christian is great, but just recognizing there are people in this world who are different than us and and it's not a scary thing to learn and listen and um even the things that you know the me too movement recently or even the recent stuff that's been the news in terms of even more about privilege in terms of culture and and what women have to go through we keep getting reminded of the things that are out there and um we just got to continue to keep listening. Because, yeah, you're right.

It's a scary world because you get this call out culture and then everyone's like on edge too about like people getting called out and people you're fans of and they want to be. Everyone's just on edge. You're right. And I think it's nice to hear you say just like let's just take a step back and with great intentions try to move forward. And I think that, you know, I'm glad to see just to put a nice bow on it. Even someone like Olivia was able to take this traumatic experience and turn it hopefully into a positive thing. And yeah, I hope for anyone listening, maybe even send Olivia a nice little note.

You'd be surprised how much she might appreciate that. Because yeah, this shit can fuck you up a little bit sometimes. Yeah, that would be great. It would be a big deal. It's a nice little gesture that would take somebody one minute. Just send her a little, hey, you're awesome. Even if you, you know,

just say she's, she's great. That'd be a lot. Well, buddy, I always appreciate you coming on. I love you. Thanks for your friendship.

Where can people find you if they haven't found you already? Yeah. Higgins dot Ben on Instagram, Ben Higgy on Twitter. You know, I would love if you're in Denver to come check out the coffee shops. Go to generouscoffee.com to see where those are at. That's a big deal to me. Or the restaurants here in Denver, Ashkara and Mr. Oso.

But yeah, that's the best spots right now. And then we obviously have the Almost Famous podcast that's been around for a bit, and we're having fun with it still, especially because these Bachelor people just can't stop staying out of the news. It feels like more and more like there's always something to talk about. It's a gift that keeps on giving. They're making our jobs very – at least my job very easy. Yeah.

Well, Ben, as always, thank you. And thank you, listeners, listeners for, for tuning in, make sure to check us out tomorrow. Fun episode with, uh, the very talented and funny comedian, Sarah Colonna. We, uh, we talk about Karen culture. We just kind of ramble. I'm fascinated by this new thing called the Karen culture, watching Karen's be Karen's go down. Uh, and honestly, people who they're not even named Karen. We apologize to the people who actually named Karen. I actually think people named Karen right now are probably the nicest and

sweetest people out there. And they're just like, what the fuck? So Sarah was kind enough to join me and, and we just kind of have a discussion about it. And I think if you are interested in, in that aspect of the world, check us out tomorrow on the vile files,

as always sending your questions at ask Nick at cast.com cast with a K.