The Viall Files - E150 Look Outside of Your Own Reality with Candis Cayne

Episode Date: July 8, 2020

The iconic Candis Cayne joins us on this episode of the Viall Files to talk about her new documentary Disclosure on Netflix and her journey as a trail blazer in the transgender community. Nick and Candis have an open dialogue about what is appropriate to speak about, her life growing up, her career as an actress, and how she is helping to educate the entertainment community one project at a time. This conversation is important to hear, important to learn from, and important for understanding how to be a better ally. It’s time to live your existence, without judging others.  “Work a beat on a roller skate.” Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:  RITUAL: ritual.com.VIALL NOOM: noom.com/VIALL Episode Socials:  Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall Krissy Lindquist @thekrissylindquist Candis Cayne @candiscayne See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody happy wednesday to you all uh i'm just here we're we're back in the studio we're coming and going uh chrissy nice see you. Nice to see you in the flesh. In the flesh. Sound quality on point this episode. We just want to say thanks for sticking with us during quarantine. I know some people have called in and sometimes, you know, the audio isn't always the same when it's not in the studio. But hey, listen, trying times.

Trying times. We're just trying to get through it. We do always appreciate you listening what a great episode we have coming for you today yeah

Candace Kane legendary actor she really is an icon performer talking to us about the trans community

we're fresh off the heels of pride month yeah and we pride summer pride summer pride summer and i gotta say uh

the the trans community is uh something i know very little about and uh still pretty ignorant on on some of the topics that are discussed on this and i was just interested in learning more about candace and and what it's like to be in her shoes. Yeah. And as we try to do on the show, we're just trying to put ourselves in other people's shoes from time to time. So she's obviously a delight, a lot of fun. A trailblazer in the community. Trailblazer.

Chrissy has been friends with Candice for forever. 10 years, yeah, that's crazy. So yeah, I mean, she's done it all, man. She's in this new documentary on Netflix called Disclosure, which I watched she's done it all, man. She's, she's in this new, uh, documentary on Netflix called Disclosure, which I watched. I hope you guys did too. Um,

she's in the magician, the magician. She was, she performed with Billy Baldwin. Need you say more? I mean, legendary Billy Baldwin was her love interest. Uh,

also, you know, Caitlyn Jenner, she was, uh, she was on IMK. She was, she helped Caitlynlin jenner with

yeah confidant with the with the transition it was very interesting anyways if uh if you want to listen to something light and fun about the trans community and learn a little bit i think you learn a lot look look no look look no further i mean you're here already you downloaded it if you turn it off now you're a dick yeah you're just that night yeah wow boy that says a lot about you did i just chastise some of that anyways before i say anything else to offend my audience um before we get to uh the interview with candace a friendly reminder to give us five stars on itunes obviously sending sending your questions to asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K for our Mondays episodes. We certainly appreciate you sharing

your stories and letting us give us your opinion. And our listeners at home, thank you as well. Well, we always appreciate you guys listening. Oh, by the way, thank you, Seventeen Magazine, for naming us one of the top dating podcasts out there.

We're influencing the youth of America. I love that. That was so cool. Yeah. No, it's great. Especially when you have no idea. You just show up in an article. Yeah.

That's so great. Well, 17 Magazine thinks we're dope. Like super dope. And that's because of you guys. You probably. You probably. Whoever. And if you're listening, dear. You probably, you probably, whoever. And if you, if you're listening, dear writer who wrote about us, thanks.

We appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks 17. Well, let's just, let's get to Candice. Candice, thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to this. It's a conversation that I've been, like I said, looking forward to. a conversation that i've i've been like i said looking forward to and we've had a lot of guests on this podcast especially recently to you know share their stories and shed light on topics that

aren't as common or people aren't aware of and i gotta say when it comes to transgender and the transgender community it's probably a topic I'm the most ignorant about as far as things that I'm not familiar with. And, you know, I think as a society, we're getting more and more comfortable with the transgender community and more knowledgeable. And then I watched Disclosure on Netflix, which you're a part of, and it was a fantastic show,

and we've been telling our audience. And I just, once again, realized just how much more I still don't know. Yeah. So I'm glad you're here to chat with us and hang out and have some fun, and maybe we'll learn a little bit in the process. Totally.

So yeah, I mean, it's funny because the biggest takeaway I learned from this, what I got from disclosure is, um, it's kind of this, I don't know if this is a double-edged sword where you, uh, you want to ask a lot of questions and we have this talk about on the show about the ability to be an ally, right? Right. But if you want to be an ally, do the work on your own and certainly ask questions of people who are interested in helping you learn.

But be careful sometimes how you ask things because that in itself could be offensive or rude. And when watching Disclosure, a lot of it was talking about some of the questions when you've done interviews and that the Katie Couric episode. Oprah. You know. I love the Katie Couric episode because it kind of freed that when I first started working in Hollywood, the questions were so inappropriate and I had no way of defending myself against them. I just quickly tried to answer

and then I would move on. But it was never about my work and what I was doing and what I've done for the community. It was always, you know, talking about surgeries and this and that, which was so frustrating. So when Laverne, you know, kind of schooled Katie, it kind of relieved the pressure for everyone in the media to have to not be able to ask those weird questions. Yeah. Or even though you're curious, sometimes it's good to be curious.

Yeah. You don't need to know every answer you think in your head. The only way I can even try to relate, and I can't, but if I were to try, is like how annoyed I get with like the low-hanging fruit questions of me having been on The Bachelor. Right. And they're like harmless questions. They're just like, I'm just tired of doing it. And they're like harmless questions. They're just like, I'm just tired of doing it. And I can only imagine having being asked about surgeries or parts of your body or what's

it like or like, you know, just like, oh my, you know, and then I get questions and they're not like offensive. They're just like, are you really asking me that? Right. And yet, again, that's not even a comparison. And I get frustrated. So I can truly only imagine what it might be like for a transgender person to try to make other people feel comfortable.

So the way I always thought about it was, is that I'm just going to be an open and happy and just intelligent, hopefully, person to just discuss who I am and really kind of get people off the defensive. When they meet me, they tend to enjoy talking to me. I'm well versed, I can carry on a conversation. I'm not a threatening person. And I think that helps ease the attentions or insecurities that somebody has about being around me, even though I don't understand why that would be an issue, but some people apparently have that issue. It's gotten a lot better, you know?

So it's fine now. I live my daily life. For the most part, nobody even realizes that I'm trans. I just kind of just go about my business, you know what I mean? Or they recognize me or something like that. But I also don't mind answering questions when it comes to how you feel inside, how you came to your decisions. These are personal questions that really help people understand why

someone is the way they are. I could just keep going. I feel like that's safer for me. I mean, there's one thing about trans folk, which I never thought I'd say folk

before, but trans people is that they, from a very early on, have to delve deep into their own psyche and soul to discover who they are as a human being. So a lot of trans people are very well-developed, thought-out people because they've had so many years of trying to figure out who they are. That makes sense, yeah. Yeah. They're like constantly in their head and kind of...

Which is a good thing and a bad thing. But like for me, I knew I was trans when I was seven years old. So when you say you knew you were trans when you were seven, like you said to yourself, I'm trans, or you just felt different? I felt different, yeah. I have a twin brother, and he's like— Identical? No, fraternal.

Okay. I know. Everybody always asks that. I have such an annoying question. Like, I want to see the before and after. You have 10 siblings from the same mom? I know. Yeah.

So, no, when I was younger, I had twin cousins that were a boy and a girl. And I used to, my first thought was like I should have been born like my cousin Tanya at seven. But there was, you know, you're seven, you know. And my best friend was Jenny Gamble, who was like my girlfriend. And we would dress up together and play with dolls, and my parents were really rad, and they never once said, stop playing with that doll or stop wearing that dress. And that was, you know.

That's the most important part is having parents that understand and can help you. A hundred percent. People don't realize that being trans is difficult enough, especially if you don't have a support system around you. Well, I mean, again, I can only imagine. My sister, I've mentioned this, came out recently as gay. Yeah, congratulations.

Well, I say thank like I did something. She was 17 and, as you can imagine, grew up really conservative. My parents' on um being gay were definitely different now than they were say 15 years ago not that they were ever you know uh bigots or anything like that they just were ignorant you know we were all ignorant we just had different views um and so uh i you know i'm really thankful for my parents especially for my sister olivia because i know there was a lot of fear as open-minded as my parents have become and as

progressive they've become it's like what are my what's what's what are people going to think and um the being gay seems to be again still ways to go but a lot more accepted than it was before and especially is you know it's like oh you like women okay fine but i can't imagine what that might be like i mean what have your parents shared in terms of like having a trans daughter uh and like um i you know in disclosure there was that one father who kind of talked about their their i don't know if their child, the unicorn. It was a very empowering thing to hear. But were your parents always that progressive and behind your back?

Or was it kind of a slow, like, help me understand what you're feeling type of thing? Well, I came out twice because I thought. What does that mean? Well, because I'm not only – well, I'm trans. I'm also straight. So when I was – okay, I'll help you understand that. So I am attracted to men. Okay.

And so I was born physically as a boy. And so I was born physically as a boy. And so I came out as gay because I wasn't able to figure out my transition yet. That makes sense. Yeah. So I came out to them as gay. And they were like, okay, well, you have to be careful because right now, I mean, it was in the middle of the AIDS epidemic. And so they were worried more than anything for me. But then I moved to New York City and I realized that I was trans and

I wanted to grow old as a woman. And I wrote them both a letter and I sent it to them. And they called me and said, we're coming to New York. We want to make sure you're okay. So they flew to New York about a month later because they were teachers and it was in the middle of school year. And my dad said to me, this makes more sense to me. Interesting. Yeah. Kind of almost kind of sensed it. Yeah. And so they are progressive people, like to the core. But every child that transitions, their parents go through a moment of mourning for their lost child, their left child.

I was a twin, so it was always me and Dylan. And so it was a transition for them as much as it was for me. And I think that that's really important. Everyone needs to know that everyone, you need to be accepting of your child at face value and do the work on the inside and not project that on your child because they're going through it as much as anyone else is going through it, you know? And it's kind of similar to being gay too. It's a,

it's a way that society has put these kind of norms on, on how people should be. Yeah. And we kind of live in a sheep mentality where everybody tries to be similar to the other person so they don't stand out too much. And so you're going against the norm. I mean, me personally, I was raised by an amazing family,

and I've always been out there. I didn't care what people said i didn't know care if i was going to get beat up i was going to be myself you know but that comes a lot from my my core values and my parent my parental raising you know but that's important I always get jealous of these amazing brands that don't care about me. But I know you're using Ritual. Well, they're going to be making a men's one, so you're going to be fine. That's great. But right now, I can't.

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uh as we know that our bodies sometimes are are different and uh they're really honing in on all the things that apparently you women need to have the uh that we're not getting enough healthy systems or whatever i don't know but here's the thing sometimes uh no matter how focused you are on your diet and trying to get all the nutrients, you might not get everything you need. And vitamins are a great way to maximize all the minerals and vitamins your body nourishes, needs, and craves. Yeah, all those essential nutrients.

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shavings make a pile doing a little bit it's all about habits and solutions uh to get you to where you want to be uh you don't have to change it all in one day small small small make big progress or shavings make a pile sign up for your trial today at n o o m dot com slash v i a l l noom it's fun to say what do you have to lose visit noom.com slash v i a l l today that's noom n o o m.com slash v i a l l and how your relationship with your your brother was he always protective of you or was there ever a struggle between like hey i have a twin did he have an identity um maybe not identity but like yeah how did he handle it i guess is the question yeah um i i think you know we were teen when we

were teenagers we hated each other just because normal teens siblings you know it wasn't anything like anything other than like you're weird well you Well, you're dumb. You know, that kind of thing. But he was, I could tell that he was protective of me. I remember one time I went to, you know how high schools will have a fair like in Greece. You know what I mean? And do you know Greece? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'm straight, but like. Olivia Newton-John. Hello. I do like to dance.

And I went to the St. Anthony Bazaar and I went and I was walking and this group of guys surrounded me and one of them punched me in the face and I somehow got through them. I don't know how and i ran into where my brother was and i was like these guys went punched me in my face and then the next thing i knew the entire football team that dylan was on was chasing them across the field and off the campus so yeah i mean it's kind of an amazing thing like he hated me but he loved me he didn't hate me but you know what i mean i mean like i joke with some of my siblings like i love them all i don't like them all like right i don't like hanging out with them all the time but but i was the only one in maui with like crazy color hair that no one was doing at the time you know and i was i was like the oddball and everyone on maui knew me you grew

up in maui yeah oh wow yeah i feel like i have so many questions about that well because in maui i feel like you've just being caucasian in maui is you're you're more of a minority right in that regard yeah um so and kind of integrating into the local culture you know not just being a tourist and you're having to like. Are your parents still in Maui? No, they left like six years ago to move to Seattle to be near my brother and the kids and, you know, that kind of thing. Very cool. What are some of the, I mean. They kept their house. In Maui?

Yeah. Oh, wow. So you got. I have a house. I have my house still there. Well, it's not my house, but you know what I mean. But you get, you go there. Oh, anytime i want

i'm like okay i got the house plan a trip yeah yeah i'm like i'm best friends now i mean because you're cool but also because of the house uh what are i mean you know people have gotten better and more understanding and more open-minded but you know for the people who listen to this podcast and and have questions what do you what are some of the concepts or things or the questions you get that you know are still short-sighted or ignorant that um you hear often and often that you would love to maybe just correct people on or just say hey you, maybe you don't even mean to be offensive, but this, I don't, could you not do that? The core of this is that people still believe that this is a choice.

And I think that's where it all boils down to. This is something that I am. It is part of my being. And so it wasn't a choice. Would I want to choose being tormented for the first half of my being yeah and so um it wasn't a choice would i want to choose being tormented for the first half of my life and have to go through surgeries and and and discrimination like it's it's kind of ridiculous um i think that that is the basic thing um there's other stupid questions like about bathrooms and you know like all of that whole thing that the right is really trying to push um the bathroom bill and stuff like that i mean can you imagine me walking into a men's bathroom yeah i would be so i mean it would be ridiculous yeah because especially amending parts of the country where people don't know you.

Right. I mean... And those are the parts of the country where I could, well, I couldn't get in trouble. But, you know, technically I could get in trouble. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or not technically, but, I mean, the trans community,

a lot of the trans community could get into trouble. And so, and really it's not about me or the passing girl or the girl that gets by or the pretty privilege or the one living in Hollywood. When you say passing girl, do you mean the fact that if I met you on the street, I would have no idea that you were trans? Right. Okay. Versus someone who's maybe at the beginning or middle of their transition? Or in a place where they're happy. Yeah.

And it doesn't really matter what this person thinks about how this person looks or appears or is because you're living your existence and I'm living mine. So why are you judging my existence? So a lot of what I talk about and fight for is the fact that, yes, I live in Hollywood. I'm an actress. I'm in a bubble. I have a house. I'm pretty. I have all these privileges that a lot of other trans people don't. And they walk out of their house every day into a barrage of comments, a barrage of fear. I mean, can you imagine living in one of these places that have bathroom bills and not being able to blend and go stealth into society? You can't go to the bathroom. And for those people who don't know what the bathroom bill is, what is it? There's been a series of bills that they've had throughout the country that say that trans people are not allowed to use the bathroom that they identify with.

And so a lot of these trans folks are having to hold pee. I mean, can you imagine? I know it sounds vapid, but imagine having to hold your pee for the entire day you're going around and having to wait till you get home to use the bathroom. Like it's things like that that really make people understand that it's not about slinking into the ladies room. It's about just using the bathroom. It doesn't make sense to me. But also just kind of funny because, you know,

go to a sports venue game, and it's pretty common that the women's bathroom line will be longer, and then there's always, especially when alcohol is involved, the group of cute girls who come into the men's room, and guys don't give a shit you know a lot of cheering and whatever and right you think they all think it's great so yeah the fact that unless you're a trans person and that's the last place you want to go right the contradiction i auditioned

for curb your enthusiasm once for an episode that never they never did because it was because me and apparently a bunch of other actors were like we would never do this like about the bathroom thing where you know i it there the line is too long in the woman's bathroom and so this trans woman walks over into the men's room and he's in and and and larry david's in front of or behind her like what are you doing in this whole trans thing? And so I walked into the audition and Larry was Larry David and the whole cast. And I'm like, this is a basic audition.

Why would all these people be at this audition? Who knows? But I walked in. I was like, I love your show. And I think this is amazing. And I think you guys are so funny. And I really wish I could be on it. But this is not something that trans people would ever do.

And so I'm sorry I can't audition for this. And they were like, oh, okay, thank you for coming in. And just why not, I guess? Did they ask why? Was it like a, did they learn Or was it kind of a coaching? I think so. And then Alexandria Billings, who's another actress from Transparent and stuff, she walked in and said the same thing. And then when I was out there, she walked out and she's like, I just said this. And I was like, I just said that too. And so we were kind of feeling

like, okay, that was the early days when we had to change Hollywood from the inside. And now that there's, you know, like everything that I've ever done up until a certain point, I had to talk to the writers and the director and the, you know, and the producers and say, this is how you should write this character, even though it's already had been written, you you know and most of the time they listen to me most of the time that's good i mean even on on disclosure um just like you know and you've seen parodies about this like in the movie forgetting sarah marshall where like the the show within the show um about like the csi kind of shows where they have these like really corny

lines but they even disclosure where it was like the trans person and it's always they were like oh well he's got a dick or you know they always like always that canny kind of like those hands guess those are some big feet yeah i mean it was always like this like oh look what we're really dealing with here yeah that was me and you said something like you were like dying. I was dying. I was rolling my eyes. You were just like lying there, letting them just tell their...

I'm not heavy. Big hand. I know. Oh, my God. But what they didn't say in Disclosure, which was important, was the rest of the story. There was a point where the director,

who was amazing, I changed them from putting it in the men's room to putting it in the women's room. Such a, I wouldn't have, you know, just a subtle. Yeah, just that changed things. So the killer follows me into the women's room. Another thing is that when they were casting for my before picture, because I didn't have any before pictures,

they lined up all of the extras that were on the set and they said, we're doing this before. And none of the actors wanted to give their before picture for my transition. And one of the actors said, they said to the director was was like you look like you could have been you know and he was like no i'm not lending my picture for this scene this transition wait so like the director if i were like up for that this part right to play your

before and i was being like i don't want to be identified it was just a headshot it was just a headshot it was their headshot candace you can use my headshot I don't want to be identified. It was just a headshot. It was just a headshot. It was their headshot. Candice, you can use my headshot. Okay, thank you. Whenever to be here before. So they didn't want to be identified as a before. And so the director said, well, then you can leave my set. Good for him. Which was like that first moment because you're dreading it.

You know, there weren't anybody. There was no one else on sets anywhere that were trans. Iing it you know there weren't anybody there was no one else on sets anywhere that were trans i was you know barely and um and so nobody knew how to deal with that and so for me to get that kind of like protection on a set was important that's great it's always nice to hear can i ask because i didn't know this and i was kind of talking to my friend who who watched it with me well i apologize if this is a stupid question but disclosure why is it called disclosure um because disclosing means that's what i kind of what i wasn't sure though yeah when you When you disclose who you are, who your true self is.

Okay. You know? Yeah. I wasn't, you know. I mean, that's what I think. But in a positive way. Right. Okay.

Or in a negative way. I mean, for my career, I mean, for a lot of trans people that are trying to live stealth, it's always people that disclose who you are. That's what I was having a debate with myself. Is it disclosure because as a trans person, you don't want to feel like you have to constantly disclose it? Right. Or maybe both, where if you are a trans person, you want to be able to say it proudly and loudly like this is who I am and be accepted for it. I think it's kind of see all of the above.

I mean, there's just so many. There's positive ways of disclosure. There's negative ways of disclosure. I have girlfriends that were models in New York City that were trans and nobody knew. And it took one queen that saw them in the clubs one night to ruin their career. So because they were outed career but because so because they were outed then people like because they didn't know they were working as a right a female model i mean i had i had people say you can never be um a commercial actor because if if the client

found out that you were trans there could be lawsuits i actually had an agent say that to me trans, there could be lawsuits. I actually had an agent say that to me. Because you're misleading the audience? Because I'm misleading. So how do you even fight through Hollywood when that's what you get? You know what I mean?

I mean, I had a huge agency once tell me, I'm sorry, we can't bring you on in the height of Dirty Sexy Money, like huge show. Because our other clients wouldn't understand us taking you on in the height of dirty sexy money like huge show because our other clients wouldn't understand us taking you on but they're just how long ago was that actress that was well yeah who's who's out who's out as a trans person sure um that was oh seven oh eight so not that long ago no not that long ago it is kind of amazing when you think back in terms of just certain ideas or, I mean,

when I was in high school, there was no, there was no, there were gay, there were no gay people in our class. We didn't know. No one came out. Yeah. There was no out people. There was no out people. And then now, you know, my sisters are in high school.

I mean, you can't tell me there was a sissy or two. Oh, no. I mean, when we graduated a few years back, you find out so-and-so came out. And I didn't say that because that was me. Like, everyone knew that I was different. It wasn't a thing. We didn't think about it. We didn't talk about it.

Right. You know, certain people years later would come out and be like, oh, okay, that makes sense, you know? But now you go back to high schools and it's way more accepted. People aren't as afraid to come out. And you know, a lot of that has to do with media and how the media portrays gay, lesbian, the LGBTQ plus community.

Curious, I'm a big Dave Chappelle fan. Obviously he has come up when it comes, Dave Chappelle? I'm teasing. No, I'm teeth. No, sorry. I'm joking. Howard, like I,

and he's obviously, you know, talked about the trans community. He's, he's, you, the trans community has been the butt of his jokes. Yeah.

When I first watched it, I laughed and then I, you know, hear from the trans community and it's just like, how should, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, what are your thoughts on, you know, you know, especially comedians who are like saying well as a comedian i should be able to tell jokes and you know what are your i guess until you say sexist or racist remarks

sure yeah so you didn't obviously didn't find well i i didn't watch it because i heard about it and i don't need to have that kind of energy in my life but what i do know is that there are jokes to a point sure like oh you're this way and like oh you know whatever but then there are jokes that go beyond that point and that happens and everyone has lines that that that aren't crossed i'm sorry yeah totally and everyone should have lines that aren't crossed i mean believe me i know that we're living in a weird cancel culture and it's so frustrating to me. Like somebody can have a beef with you and try to ruin your life and your career. And I think that's kind of ridiculous, but I think that you need to, to, there are lines that are crossed,

that are crossed, especially for burdening communities that are just burdening or burdening or anyways. Communities who are burdened. Burdening or budding communities, communities that are burdened and that are still fighting for their civil rights so vigorously that they can't go to the bathroom in some cities and so by by by doing kind of distasteful jokes it's it just makes the community part of the butt of the joke sure as a yeah yeah i mean it's just and i i only bring it up just because i remember again watching it and thinking it was you know oh he's telling a joke. Not from, you know, not really knowing any trans people or having conversations with a trans person

and hearing their perspective. But coming from a cis, straight, white male, there aren't very many jokes that offend you because you rule the world. No, we... I mean, let's just... I joke about this all the time on this show. It's like, I don't know what to be offended about.

Like, I mean... Right. If a guy, if one of my other white straight friends comes to me and says they're offended, I just roll my eye. What are you offended about? Well, and then it goes to a whole other deeper level because when you're the butt of the joke, you get picked on.

And this year so far, 17 trans women of color have been murdered by cis men just for being trans. And so when you cultivate a community that laughs at other human beings for who they are, they aren't taken seriously. Then stuff like this happens when they disclose who they are. No, that makes sense in terms of you don't want whoever you are, you don't want when you come up to always be the first thing that comes up is a joke. Right. Right. A way to make yourself feel maybe comfortable with even the concept or the idea, or, you know, it's like sometimes people, when we engage people who are different than us, we

want them to be able to laugh at themselves to give us permissions to to laugh at them which is kind of a bizarre thing but we we do that because it's like we don't know what to say so give me permission to laugh or something right but you can laugh but you're not allowed to desire like at what point does the cis hetero community say, God, she's hot. That isn't really said. Like, oh, she's trans, she's pretty, you know, but there isn't, they never talk about sexual desire or anything like that. In terms of like a guy being like, oh, what a total babe. Yeah. And just leaving it.

And leaving it at that. And leaving it at that. Yeah. And not feeling like that says something about you about them about you that's why i mean yeah about exactly be like oh no she's hot it's hot i think you're hot uh or or you know i'm assuming like a woman problem i know but if it's listen guys are guys are gawkers, you know, not in a great, you know, but we, we check out women all the time. And so I'm like, when you say, oh, what a babe. And then someone says, oh, but did you know he, she's trans and not, or not even feel the need to say that. Exactly.

Or, or if it does come up, you don't change. That's always followed up with that second statement. Yeah. Yeah. with that second statement. Yeah. And it's going to be many a moon before we get beyond that, but that's the goal.

Not that my hotness, that you're thinking that I'm hot has anything to do with who I am or how comfortable I am with a person, but it's just little things like that. Like you see somebody walking into the women's room and you know that they're trans instead of looking and stopping saying something, you know, just let them be, you know what I mean? Uh, I, I agree. And listen, I get, we do have a long way to go. And, uh, I'm still, like I said, I'm, I'm very ignorant on this topic. You know, I'm always trying to learn. still like i said i'm i'm very ignorant on this topic you know i'm always trying to learn uh now you're not well i'm still educated yeah i'm still learning 80 of the country so i'm assuming a lot

of people have questions you get questions when it comes about it comes about dating in your dating life uh is that something that you like talking about hate about. I can only imagine the type of questions you might get asked that are annoying. What are your thoughts on that? I date. I'm single. I have been in long-term relationships. I've been in short-term relationships. I went from relationship to relationship. I've gone from relationship to relationship to relationship. And finally, like I realized, from relationship to relationship to relationship. And finally, like I realized, just like anyone else, like I have to stop, I have to stop, you know,

shortchanging my needs and desires because I'm trying to fulfill a need in someone else. And I have to be honest, and I have kind of a big checklist for somebody that I'm dating. So now I just, I date if, now I have a couple of lovers. So those needs are met. But then I haven't met anybody that really like has the whole package. That you want to hang out with.

That I want to hang out with, that I'm fun and I want to have sex with and I want to hang out with and I want to play Scrabble with. You know what I mean? Garden with. And garden with and go to the movies or the flea markets, you know, stuff like that. And it's like I haven't found a well-rounded man that's going to be able to do that for me. So I think it's the same everywhere. Yeah.

I like how you called them lovers. I don't, like, I love that word. It sounds so professional. I love that word. Lovers. I've had people I have sex with sometimes. So lovers.

Those are lovers. Are they? Yeah. I try not to make love with those people. Oh, it's not making love. They're just, yeah. I think lover's a sexy way to say it. You remember the SNL skit with Will Ferrell?

And what's his name? Hello, lover. Hello, my lover. Molly Shannon. Molly Shannon. No, was it Molly Shannon? It is. Yeah, it was Molly Shannon.

Yeah, she owns the like... No, no, no. It wasn't Molly Shannon. It was the... She was the other cheerleader. yeah it was Molly Shannon yeah she like owns the like no no no it wasn't Molly Shannon it was it was the she was the other cheerleader with Will Ferrell Oteri

oh Sherry Oteri yes it was Sherry Oteri really do you take lovers walks in there in the hot tub oh yeah it was Sherry Oteri

it was Sherry Oteri oh I was thinking but Molly Shannon seems like someone but there's Molly Shannon did oh maybe that was yeah yeah um yeah i mean so do you i mean and when you meet uh men do you feel like you have to disclose or have this conversation like when i'm when i meet women it's just like okay here's this thing i was on this reality tv show and like do you have any fucking questions that i have to get off my chest and like what do you want any fucking questions that I have to get off my chest? And like, what do you want to know? Like, do you feel this burden to have to do that or?

I do it on my, well, I don't really go out. Yes. I always tell them. And I got to imagine that some people handle it better than others. Yes. But I never have a, I always, always say, I always hear, well, I don't know how to wrap my head around that. So, but you're really beautiful and take care. Like it's never like,

it's never for me personally, a violent act, but that's not the case for all trans. No. And, um, yeah. So,

I mean, I've just, I'm, I'm also to the point now where i'm i'm not going out to clubs and i'm not having that conversation so i'm on dating sites and if i'm on dating sites i disclose everything on the site okay so you know i it's just easy yeah there's a freedom there there's a total freedom let me know if you're interested yeah and if not it's all there here's all my stuff swipe yeah exactly but also that is that that is unfair and that sucks because when it comes to dating apps who else feels the need to be like this is all of me. Exactly. Like, I've been fired from four jobs.

Like, you know. I'm really 5'11". Two of my ex-girlfriends have blocked me on, you know, on text. I have a restraining order. Like, who else has to do that except the trans? I have three stalkers. Yeah. The trans community.

Yeah. No, I mean, but it just makes life safe. And it makes life easier because I don't want to be burdened with your bullshit. Yeah. I don't. I have a happy life. I have amazing friends, amazing family, a couple of lovers. A couple of lovers.

But I don't want to be burdened with your issues and your bullshit. Maybe people should all just kind of put more on their bio. Yeah, I think so. I have trust issues. I have a third nipple. It sounds stupid, but I will purposely put a picture of me because I'm a bigger girl. And so like, yes, here I am. I have extra weight on me, just so you know. Because otherwise people will be like, no.

I will say, regardless if it's someone who is a plus size person or whatever you look like, I do not, I will never understand why people will be misleading in their photos. Especially if they have that one good photo from four years ago where they found that angle and you're just like, Oh, thank God. That's so true. I'll never forget. And they look like a painting

because of all the touch stuff. I'll never forget. I was, my one buddy, and he was my roommate, this was years ago, he had a girlfriend and she's a nice girl.

Fine. You know, not my type, but totally fine girl. They ended up moving in together and then we me and some of my buddies came over and we kind of gave ourselves a tour and around his place or a bunch of pictures of her and mostly her and some of them and we were just looking and we kind of looked at each other without saying anything like is this her and it was always the same angle you know like in every photo and it was just like this barely looks like her but it was like how like like that was her angle that was her angle and it was a perfect angle that didn't look quite like her yeah so like if you are on a dating app and you are if you are doing

that you're you're probably going to even if it's like you you're going to disappoint not because it's just like it's not what you expect and no one wants to be lied to that way no i mean there are things that you should do everyone should do a little correction because photos are different than real life like you're talking to someone you're not like looking at this picture with like that one red bump you know that you have on your forehead i'm not saying everyone takes a selfie like underneath your chin yeah if you date me with this then basically you're both are like we know our you should still you should see my selfie game it's pretty good yeah mine i mean mine's strong

too yeah it is yeah but i i like to think that it's uh my instagram is a fair representation of who i am yeah except some people think i'm shorter than i am or skinnier or skinnier i'm a lean short-looking guy on instagram who roller skates his way into the hearts of women. So you roller skate? Yeah. I love it. How long have you been? I would like to collaborate.

Okay. I started roller skating. I mean, I'm not doing crazy tricks. I'm a dancer, so I can move on a roller skate. But I can't do backflips and all that kind of thing. I can't do, I'm a dancer, so I'm, I'm, I can move on a roller skate, you know? Um, and, but I can't do like, you know, backflips and all that kind of thing. I can't do backflips. You know, and, and so I'm, I'm, but I'm, I'm good and I'm elegant and I'm smooth and I can work a beat on a roller skate.

I've been roller skating forever. That's about all I can do really. Yeah. Work a beat on a roller skate. I like that. But like, unlike you you i don't want to risk falling and skinning my knee and elbow well i usually don't but literally last night i took a hard fall um because i have been trying to get better at spinning and it's uh i ran into a pebble

so i am who would have ever thought a pebble could bring you down? No, it was, it really did. What a metaphor. I know, right? It was a little glass pebble and I took a crashing fall. I thought I broke my wrist, to be honest, but I'm just really, really, really sore. Before we get to our do you know me game, Candice, any final thoughts on just, just again for the people listening of it's going to take some time many moons as you say but what are some things uh for the people who are open-minded but this might even be an uncomfortable you know conversation for them or they're just like i don't

know i'm interested there's always gonna be we'll just never break through to and I mean, whatever. But what are some things, you know, that if they run into it, you know, interact with a trans person to make them feel more welcomed or other than the things that we've already discussed or questions that are safe to ask and maybe other questions, just don't just maybe read or watch something else. It's like, just don't, just maybe read or watch something else. You know, I wouldn't ask questions. I would listen to what they're saying. And when somebody who's trans wants you to know something, they'll tell you. Great.

And I think it's also important that, you know, trans community is a very small community. I mean, we're out in the media, we're on Pose. I've been on television, you know, Laverne, all these people. But the numbers itself are very low. And when you're a minority, when you're a small community, you need allies' help. If you see something, say something. If you see somebody getting abused or, God forbid, physically hurt, do something.

Stand in. Call someone to help. Because for the most part, we don't have enough allies out there. And so that's really important. We all, I really do believe that most Americans are good people and that they believe that everyone should their lives and what they're doing in life they don't know how to go beyond and look at somebody else's existence and and understand it and try to try to look at it through their eyes and i know america can do that i mean look at how far we've come just since i was on dirty sexy money um Now there's entire casts of shows that have trans

characters on it. Like I said, it's going to take many moons, but we're leaps and bounds in just 10 years than we were in the first 50 of being visible with Christine Jorgensen. And no, I do have hope, but it takes allies and it takes our communities fighting for our right to exist. Well, nicely said. And I really do appreciate you sharing your story and having more conversations with it, about it, and putting up with some of our questions. All right, Candice, are you up for our do you know me game? I am. Quick rules here. I'll ask you five questions.

Chrissy and I are going to guess who knows Candice Kane better. Okay. Chrissy should win. She's known Candice for some time. Like 15 years. Don't answer the question immediately. Think about the answer in your head. Okay.

And then we'll guess and you'll tell us if we're right or wrong. If you have an anecdotal story about your answer, please share. Don't feel like you need to. A simple yes or no will suffice. Okay. Do you know me with Candace Kane? Has Candace ever been injured from sex? Has Candace ever been injured from sex? Has Candace ever been injured from sex?

And let me preface by injury. A scratch on the back is not an injury. Oh, so like nails doesn't count. Yeah, yeah, you know. A hickey doesn't count. Okay. Like you have to be like, ow. Like almost like a small limp afterwards or something.

Does venereal disease count? No. No. But although, ow. Brutal. Ow. For sure, ow. For sure, ow. But for the context of this game, I'm going to say we won't have to,

HIPAA laws apply on this show. I'm going to say no okay I'm going to say yes and I'm only going to say yes because I mean you're a dancer maybe you can get a little twirly maybe fall off something I don't know do something

a little twirly in there so I'm going to go yes no I do not know her better Just do something. A little twirly in there. So I'm going to go yes. No. I do not know her better. I mean, there's like, you know, you fall up, you roll off the bed or something. And you kind of, you know, but it's not like injured. And this vision of you on a chandelier.

Well, that's been done. Question number two, softball. Has Candace ever been camping? I mean, I'm going to say yes, ever. Yes. Probably my guess is in her early years. Yes. My parents used to take us camping up in Northern California

at a place called Consumities River. And we named it Chipmunk Heaven. And it was magical. And we had all these things. We used to play. Okay. Anyway. Chipmunk Heaven? It's been many a year since I've thought of it. Like, I have a lot

of friends who go camping. But the thought of it for me just doesn't camped. I've thought of it. Like, I have a lot of friends who go camping. But the thought of it for me just doesn't. No. I love it. I don't need to. I don't need to. The smoke and the hair. I fantasize about, like, being stranded and having to do that, which is. But, like, choosing to?

Well, yeah. Just burnt food and smoke in your hair and your clothes. Not for me. I love it. I love a campfire. Don't get me wrong. But for a cabin. Oh, cabins I your clothes. Not for me. I love it. I love a campfire. Don't get me wrong. But I prefer a cabin. Oh, cabins I've done.

That's fine. That's totally good. Oh, so you're a glamper. Sure. That's so on brand. No, I'm just kidding. It totally is. And I'm fine with that.

I'm not, I don't need to prove anything to anyone. Question number three. Has Candice ever shoplifted? Has Candice ever shoplifted has candace ever shoplifted uh she doesn't have to have been caught um yeah was candace ever shoplifted i'm gonna say yes i'm gonna say yes every girl's tried it. I'm going to say yes. And this includes, have you like taken something? When you're seven. Here's an example.

So like. I don't know why I've done this. Because like when first asked the question, have I ever shoplifted? I would say, no, of course not. Like, especially when I was a kid. But like, I remember like as an adult before, like if I go get like a sandwich and I want a bag of chips, I like chips. And I'm like, I don i want a bag of chips i like chips and i'm like i don't want to pay for two bags of chips so i've like paid for chips give me a chip and then i'm like

i'm still hungry and i just like grabbed another bag that's so stupid and wrong that's shoplifting that's shoplifting and i i did that in like in college i don't know why because i can certainly get like the buck 30 that it is but i guess i've done that yeah no like in high school like we would go and like try to sneak booze you know what i mean and like get like a gold schlops yeah gold schlager yeah it's so bad we guessed yes on that yeah yeah we got that point i had a couple of times i i i'm i'm nervous like i'm i don't want to get caught like the nightmare for any trans person is to go to jail or go to the hospital you know something like that great follow-up question has candace ever been arrested

i only picked this question because i was wondering if maybe like from like a protesting standpoint, like we're acting in a form of activism. I would have, I would have suggested, I'm going to say yes because of that, where you maybe even have been detained, but didn't deserve it. You know, not to get in the hole. I mean, even you've been arrested. So I'm detained. Detained.

Well, I was handcuffed. Yeah. I'm going to say. I'm detained. Detained. Well, I was handcuffed. Yeah. I'm going to say. I wasn't processed. No. I'm going to say, I'm going to stick with my answer and say yes. But I feel like I'm going to be wrong here because, as Candice kind of pointed out, hyper sensitive to putting herself in that situation. I haven't.

Yeah. No. I haven't been arrested. Okay. Well. herself in that situation i haven't yeah no okay well although when i was getting global entry i applied and they said that i had an arrest from when i was 17 and i was like no i didn't so i had to call the maui police department get a document proving that i'd never been arrested they said you were... Yeah. That's scary. Which is scary. It was weird.

Anyways. Anyway. Well, we're all tied up, Chrissy. You're welcome. Last question, tiebreaker. Has Candace ever had phone sex? Oh, for sure. I'm not even doubting it.

Yeah, I'm going to say. Everyone does it. They just don't. You haven't had it. You haven't lived. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Of course going to say. Everyone does it. You haven't had, you haven't lived. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Of course. Of course. I mean, because right, what's phone sex? Be like. But not only that, she's an actress. She travels. Like you've got, like you've had relationships.

You've got to keep it spicy. Because like, isn't phone sex just be like, just to say. But I've never sent a nude. Ever. Mm-hmm. this to say but i've never sent a nude ever we're both quiet i'm just kidding i mean i i've said for you for you as i said with wells last week like i i i haven't sent that but like like I FaceTime with girls I'm dating and you know, sometimes you... Sometimes there's a nip slip. I'm just kidding.

My nip, my nip, I barely wear shirts. Well, Candice, I really appreciate you coming on. It's been a ton of fun and certainly informative for me and I hope to our audience. And yeah, for you guys listening, just as Candice mentioned, just try to be a friend and an ally

to everyone you see in the world. And maybe many moons will become two or three, who knows, we can only hope. But I do want to sincerely thank you for taking the time and coming on. We're just extending Pride Month. I know we're now in July, but you know what? Fuck it.

Screw it. Well, it's kind of, you know, Pride Summer. Yeah. Because every year it's like you go to prides all around the country, and it's always June, July, and August. Yeah. Yeah. Great.

Pride Summer. We deserve more than one. Well, it's kind of the thing, too, when it comes to some of these months, if you will. I think maybe the hope is the idea is that we don't only focus on these things once a month or it becomes something that we kind of always embrace and open to learning more about. So there we go.

Thanks for listening, guys. We appreciate you tuning in. Don't forget to send your questions at asknick at castme.com. Cast with a K for our Ask Nick episodes on Monday. If you are tuning in to listen to Candice, we're here all, well, three times a week right now. Check us out on Mondays for our Ask Nick episodes. We give, well, we hear a bunch of relationship problems and issues and I tell them what I think.

Very well. You do it very well. Seems to work out. But other than that, thanks for listening and we will see you on Monday.