The Viall Files - E151 Ask Nick - If You're Not Growing You're Dying

Episode Date: July 13, 2020

On today’s Ask Nick, we speak with a caller about faking orgasms in the past with a partner she is starting to be physical with again and how to communicate her current expectations of their sex life. The twist? This relationship is within her main *open* relationship. We also talk with a woman struggling her mother after she made racially insensitive remarks to her teenage daughter, and a wife who is misdirecting her need to try and forgive the woman her husband had an affair with instead of addressing her anger. We also chat with a guy who shouldn’t be so available when the girl he likes is keeping him on the back burner. “Here I am, love me.” Send all of your sex and relationship questions to [e-mail]. THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: HIDRATE SPARK: hidratespark.com/viall ROTHY'S: rothys.com/viall ARTICLE: article.com/viall BOMBAS: bombas.com/viall Episode Socials: Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody happy monday to you all if it is monday that you're listening to us it could be tuesday could be tuesday could be uh for all the people who just listened to reality steve interview that's right reality steve is our guest tomorrow on the hot goss bachelor episode. Yeah. There's no episode to recap. No episode of the recap. I'll be honest. I don't know if we're going to keep these Tuesday episodes when things aren't on to talk about bachelor hot goss.

I don't know, but we have reality Steve on tomorrow. Make sure to tune in for that. Wild, wild conversation. Yeah. I feel my heart. My heart's going faster. Steve on tomorrow. Make sure to tune in for that. Wild, wild conversation. Yeah. I feel my heart.

My heart's going faster. Just thinking about it. It's, it's, it's something, it's something. In fact, we just recorded it. And so here we are doing this intro for this episode.

If you must know, Chrissy, how are you otherwise, other than trying to kind of mentally digest what just occurred with reality? Steve, I'm good. I'm getting back and just to tell a, what are you otherwise other than trying to kind of mentally digest what just occurred with reality steve i'm good getting back in just to tell a what are you doing uh what are you keeping busy with getting even better at roller skating have you been to any restaurants yet by the way uh some outside ones i went to a restaurant yeah it was kind of wild i had dinner by myself to at a restaurant i sat at a table by myself outside you know i was like three tables away from anyone else i just went to Monterey

and I did the same thing. It was a little nice little date night with myself. I quite enjoyed it. To be honest, it was something different. Love yourself. Great episode today.

Fantastic callers. We always appreciate you guys sending in your stories and sharing it with the world. For those of you who have a relationship going on, maybe there's a couple. You know, we haven't had a couple on.

Yeah, that would be cool. You know, maybe there's your boyfriend who you've been dating for a month, willing to have the conversation with us. I don't know. Maybe you should check it out. Send in your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com, cast with a K,

and share your stories. It's the lifeblood of our shows, as you know. Don't forget to send in your reviews on an iTunes only if it's five stars. And if there's nothing else, I say, we just get right to our fantastic callers. And again, check us out tomorrow for reality,

Steve and the one and only Chris Catan on Wednesday. Fantastic. Head bopping, head bopping, Chris Catan, legendary SNL actor comedian very funny guy

and friend and friend proud to say and friend and if you watch it on the video there might be a special Chris Kattan

doing Chris Kattan things doing Chris Kattan things um let's just get to it yeah what's your time today to it. How's it going? Good, man.

My name's Steve. I'm 28. Hi, Steve. Yeah, currently in Milwaukee. Ah, nice. Yeah, like you. I'm from Wisconsin. Then moved to LA, but since quarantine happened i've been back

home so okay yeah so um anyway it's something i wanted to ask you about um so i uh when i was 21 i met this girl and um at the time i really didn't want a relationship and i don't know we hung out a few times and like hooked up a little bit but never like really fully like I don't know like did anything or like all right so it fizzled out and then um recently like I reconnected with her over like the gram she had dm me one day and I was like oh sure let's talk and like we reconnected and hung out. And it was dope. The first week was, like, really, really great. And, like, week two was solid, too. Like, great communication.

We were hanging out, like, almost every day. And then week three to four kind of came around. And, like, the communication, like, basically just ended almost. And, like, I just was barely, barely getting replies and it would, yeah. And it just was like bugging me. So I reached out and was like, Hey, like no matter what you're going through, like I don't know what you're going through, no matter what it is, like it's cool. Like, I mean, like I understand like if, you know,

like you're just like, if, if, if this is done, but like, I don't want it to be done because I really like you. Cause I'm pretty much like head over heels for this girl. And yeah, I don't know. Um, I mean, it's like the first girl that I've ever, that I really liked since my last relationship, which ended a couple of years ago. And, um, um, she was like, Hey, like, I'm sorry. Like, you know, like my communication, it's bad. I'm just going through a lot right now. And, um, no, like, you know, like I'm not ready for a lot right now and um no like you know like i'm not ready for any relationship right now like you know like basically like no matter who it would be

but um i still like i love spending time with you like i want to keep seeing you she said this to you yeah yeah okay so where does she live right now uh she lives out. She's like 10 minutes away from me. So like Brookfield area. Oh, okay. So she's in Wisconsin. But you still currently live in LA. You're just hanging out. Yeah.

I mean, I kind of split my time between both just for work. Gotcha. And have you guys hung out since then? Since you said that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, so we've hung out like a handful of out since then since you said um yeah yeah yeah like i mean so we've hung out

like a handful of times since then and it's been cool um and chill and it's not like weird or anything but i guess like my question would be like one of the questions i have is like would you you know wait and see where it goes or should i keep my options open i mean i really like her i haven't seen anybody else i've turned down dates like well i don't think you should turn down dates right now um yeah she has the right to you know be honest with you about hey i'm not willing to i don't want to be in a committed relationship right now. And she gave you kind of a vague, you know, broad brush kind of answer, you know, anyone, which at first glance, I would say that what that means is she just doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. Now, that's not the case in every situation. And the fact that she said she really enjoys you and wants to hang out with you still might mean that she just

sees you more of as a friend. I don't know. Or she maybe truly could be going through something. I don't know. But the point is, is that she doesn't want to be in a committed relationship with you right now. And so that means she doesn't have to answer to you. She doesn't have to promise to you that she's not going on other dates, that she's not maybe also on dating apps and doing her thing, or maybe she's not doing anything. She doesn't owe you that answer, right? Because that's what a relationship would look like. Subsequently, stop pretending to be her boyfriend when she doesn't want you to be her boyfriend. We need to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the things that we say.

we need to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the things that we say she has the right you know so you're not doing it vindictively you're it's not like fine if you don't want to be my girlfriend i'm gonna fuck a bunch of girls and go on dates listen um you should treat her as a friend because that's what she wants to be right now um i don't think if you really like her and you really want to be you really want her to be your girlfriend then don't make her your friend now i'm not saying don't ever hang out with her i'm not saying don't spend time with her but no one's ever convinced someone to be their girlfriend by being their boyfriend without having them be their boyfriend because then you start it's this human nature to take advantage of a situation.

If you're going to be so available to her and do all the boyfriend things while giving her the option to basically find something better, she's going to do it. Everyone does that. People do that. You know, it's human nature.

So, you know, I'm not saying you have to do anything drastic but definitely stop saying no to dates for her if you don't want to go on a date with a girl because you're just not that attracted to her you're not that interested fine but i would challenge yourself if you are remotely interested in someone go on the date you know and and have some fun and you might um just because she's the first person you've liked since your last relationship but doesn't mean she's the only person you're gonna like since your last relationship she's just the first one doesn't make her the only thing that's special about her right now is that she is the first but she doesn't you know

and she could be your woman you know she might be might be the girl, I don't know. But I'm saying just her being the first, it makes it feel like it's special because she's the first, but that's it. And, you know, just tread lightly, you know, be careful about how, you know, how you act around her. And again, what I'm saying is don't make yourself so available. If you want to be your best friend, be your best friend. But the more you become this kind of guy she's there to go to movies with when she's bored

or to dinner with when she's bored or the person to talk to when she's bored, but she doesn't have to commit to you in any way, then you become pals and friends or fuck buddies. And it's just going to get more and more complicated. I mean, there's nothing more attractive to men and women than a person who knows what they want. And then like, and what I'm saying, you're just like, hey, that's cool. I'm glad we talked. I really want to hang out with you too. But I want to make it clear that I do like you and I do want to respect, and I would love to see where this goes. And I totally respect that you don't want to right now. So I don't have

an answer, but I can be honest with you. I'm not interested in being your pal, you know? And so, you know, let's just see where it goes and take it slow, but I'm not interested in you being my friend. And so maybe we shouldn't hang out right now you know that's okay and just be super chill and cool about it and super understanding and super you know fine don't get petty or or mean and be like well you know um you know like does that make sense you know handle in a very confident mature way of understanding her point of view and understanding where she is and respecting where she what she wants but that you still have the right to say what you want to and that is you want to you want something more with her and she

doesn't that's fine so you're going to keep going on dates and maybe you guys check in maybe you hang out you know maybe she will then realize like, ah, you know, I do want something with you. Yeah. I mean like, that's basically where I left it. I just wanted to call in and see like what you thought, you know, I just like was really respectful. I was like, Hey, like I know you need space and like you gotta do whatever you gotta do. And maybe now is not the time, you know, and I respect that. Totally cool. But yeah, I mean, that's what i did and um

just wanted to hear your take on it though too and see what you would have done yeah i would i would be really understanding it sounds like you're doing it right you're just be understanding be available but don't be so available you know um yeah and don't stop dating other girls uh that's for sure don't let if she feels like you're just waiting around for her it's just it's kind of an unattractive thing for people yeah uh it's like oh you're just waiting around for me and also that person feels pressure yeah um yeah in fact in the opposite it's like you start dating girls and she catches wind of it and you're like and she doesn't think you're doing it to spite her you're just like i don't know i'm just you said

you don't want to date so um what do you want me to do um i think that's great you know if you want to check in and say hi you know that's fine let her know you're there and if she reaches out to you once in a while you're super cool and if you still feel strongly about her you know put it out there but also you know fine yeah people it's it's human nature to take advantage of people who are gonna just hang around for us so yeah listen i a long story short i think you're doing it all great i'm like it's i think listen this is exciting you like a girl that's cool it's fun to feel something especially if you haven't felt in a long time. Embrace that.

Figure out what that is. And then keep going out there and keep doing your thing. And then if this is, you know, not to say meant to be, but if there's a mutual attraction, she'll come around. And if she doesn't, then she might also, she just may not be that into you. You know, she might just be saying all the things that she wants to say because she does think you're cool, but she's just not feeling it. And that's okay, too. But the best way to make her change her mind is showing you that you're a hot commodity.

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You know what just try to have a different perspective man yeah there's always gonna be ups and downs but you're gonna meet some great people along the way some of those women might turn into friends you'll have some bad dates it's fine man like um just get out there i think you know when it comes to dating we gotta start embracing the fun part about it even if that fun part includes like some messy conversations and good stories for our friends. Yeah. I mean,

I'm all, I'm down for weird and funny and like doing it for the sake of the story and meeting, you know, and again, like you just might, you might, I met a lot of friends by through dating apps and just like,

Hey, you know what? We don't love each other. Great. But you're cool. You know, we do want to hang out and we are both okay with being friends sometimes you need to have sex first to

realize that but um yeah definitely always it's like yeah well that was fun but we don't need we're good right okay let's just go to the movies um so um yeah uh yeah just don't don't be so available to her yeah i think that's yeah and i just i just started like not initiating you know like always the one like she would text me and she does she has texted me and last text was like maybe two days ago but yeah i don't know i just this is the point where you're right like i can't just keep initiating something that which i don't force it i'm not like texting her a million times pulling up her phone just texting her like once a day maybe i mean you know and i hate to say play the game but

if she does text you you know and maybe you respond the next day. Hey, sorry. I was just taught. It was tied up, but saw your texts. Um, be real vague. Make her wonder if you were on a date, even if you're like sitting at home doing literally nothing,

you know, lotion and tissue. Yeah. Cause then the girl said it at home and it's like, that's exactly what happens. It's torture. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah.

And then she sees the podcast and I'm even more fucked. No, you're fine. She'll find it endearing. Yeah, that's cute. Yeah, you're going to be fine. But yes, it's so counterintuitive sometimes to our brains. And I have a hard time doing it too. I really do.

Sometimes it's like, well, I just want you to know I'm here here i am here i am love me um uh all right man well we really appreciate you calling in uh shout out to milwaukee yeah thanks for having me all right i really appreciate thanks for listening shout out to our 10 percenters out there yeah um and uh stay safe yeah you too man all right buddies all, buddy. All right. Bye-bye. How's it going? Hey, I'm going, it's going pretty well. Great. What's your name?

I'm great. What's your name? I'm Stacy and I'm 38. Hi, Stacy. How can I help? Hi. I appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me today. Um, I wrote, because I recently had a pretty

uncomfortable situation happen with my mom. And I know that on your podcast, you've recently talked about racial injustices and bringing light to that, which I really appreciate. And so this is one of those situations. The other day, I went for a walk with my husband. I'm married on my years. And we each brought a daughter to the marriage. And my stepdaughter is half African American. And he told me on our walk that when our younger daughter was with my mom, she showed my mom a picture of a boy she thought was cute on social media. And my mom's response was, you can't date a black boy. But she's half black?

No, it was my daughter. So my daughter is the younger one. Okay. And so she isn't. Her stepsister is. Is, gotcha. Yeah. So she didn't tell me she didn't tell my husband and she kind of didn't know what to say to my mom so i guess she told her stepsister who is half black

and she um i guess they were both obviously really taken aback i, by it's not a philosophy that we live by. And so she talked for dad, my stepdaughter, and so he brought it to me and we were like, do you know, because your first reaction is you're frustrated, you know, you're maybe a little bit angry. And so we said, let's take this opportunity to talk to her and maybe try to bring some enlightenment, maybe talk about being the change that needs to happen. And so we did. And before this, I was a little bit nervous because I kept thinking, oh, should I say something before she comes over? Because she always comes over for dinner. But I thought, no, I won won't because then i think she would build her defenses and i figured that like most people when you're confronted with something you know is wrong

most people's reaction is to be defensive so we sat outside after dinner and brought it up so here's the situation and she was defensive did she deny it said you know she said um well it was a joke which i could have guessed she would have said that and and then you i'm assuming you said well that's not a funny joke and i don't want you yeah it's not a joke yeah right and she said i said well what exactly did she said it's not like i said you can't date a black boy and i said well what did you say and said i said you can't date a black boy and i'm like yep that's pretty much the same thing except you're trying to make it you know light and it's not so so at best case scenario it was a racially insensitive joke if you yeah also it wasn't a joke but you know you're right so anyways so right yeah and she

knew right like she just felt probably cornered and as you say defensive um here she is a guest at your house and she feels like these two people are coming at her and so she's you know wants to be called a racist right now even when they say racist things are racially insensitive things um so and so where are we at now well that was kind of a response too it's like well i guess you can't say anything nowadays and it's like not if it's racist yeah well i mean you can but then you need to be held accountable. Yeah, exactly. Right. So I said, this is, we want to take this opportunity to talk to you, you know, whatever is ingrained in you.

I know you're coming from a generation where you may not even understand that, that the things that are in your mind or the things that you say are wrong, but we just want to bring some light to that and maybe stand up to people, whether it's, um, whether it's sexist or homophobic or racist. I mean, you shouldn't do it. Maybe open your eyes to that. And did she apologize? No. So she, uh, kind of left. And then I called her later and she said, I'm just really upset that Shannon did, or my daughter didn't talk to her that she went, you know, How old is your daughter?

13. Okay. Um, what'd you say to that? I said, um, well, that's a whole different issue but yeah i want to encourage my girls to have a voice and i want them to be able to stand up you know and that's something that she'll work on but it's hard at 13 to know what to say especially to someone that you know an authority figure or whatever i mean but she did say something i mean i hate to point out the obvious too because i'm sure i mean she she knows this and you know this but and this is this is her grandma saying this to her right

right right so it's just like well wait so do you want your granddaughter to respect what you say you know so as your, when you say things like that, she thinks it's coming from an authority figure, someone she wants to learn from and respect and look up to. And so you said something to her that made her feel uncomfortable, right? And is that how you want her to think? Do you want me to tell my daughter to not listen to grandma? Because grandma tells insensitive jokes. And if you want her to confine you, like, well, then don't say things that are racially insensitive. Don't gaslight my daughter because you feel bad or you feel guilty or you feel defensive by what you said. And if you want

to be someone that she comes to when she's feeling uncomfortable, then you need to be careful what you say. Because I don't want you parenting my daughter in any way if you're going to say, if you're going to cross certain boundaries. You know, kind of reminds me of a time when I was, I mean, different topic, but my great grandmother was turned into, she became a Jehovah's Witness, right? I grew up very Catholic, right?

My mom, obviously, we grew up very Catholic, and my mom was very protective of our religion, and I'm not here to criticize Catholicism over Jehovah's Witness. I'm just simply saying that, you know, I remember, I vividly remember a time where my great-grandma was, like, talking to one of my sisters about, one of my sisters about becoming a Jehovah's Witness. And my mom came upon this conversation and was not having it. And it was just like, you might be her great-grandmother, but you do not get to overstep your boundaries. If you want to talk to her about this stuff, you have to come to me, you're, you know, the mother, you know, and that's the thing, you know, she's her grandmother,

she's not her mom. And if you're going to tell her joke, you know, you know, what's it's you're expecting a 13 year old, you know, you're how old is she? 60 some year old woman is, you know, like, you expect a 13 year old to understand your sense of humor um come on you know and so you know you should remind her that she's not the 13 year old in this relationship because right now it sounds like the 13 year old is more mature than the 60 year old or however old she is or or the grandmother well people we're staying home we're lying on couches we're watching netflix and what a no better time to make sure you are looking good on that couch with an amazing article piece of furniture. So maybe it's a chair, maybe it's a

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because i like to cook and um i am so this call is convenient i i'm not really sure how to um bring up the conversation again because that's not the end but I'm trying graceful but I also want to in love or educate her on I would love for her to be a better person

and I don't know change people overnight you're right right I think let's focus on what you can control, right? Right. You know, shower her with love. She's still your mom. You can still love her

even if she has racially insensitive points of view. So, you know, make her feel loved when you can. She didn't apologize. She should apologize, right? She should apologize to you for that joke. She should acknowledge it wasn't a joke. She's an adult. You can hold her accountable right hey listen it bugs me like i'm not trying to cast you as a certain type of person i'm not calling you racist but what you did wasn't okay with me

and i still am uncomfortable right now because it doesn't seem like you've really acknowledged it what you've done is make excuses you've tried to blame her for not understanding your joke you try to blame her for not coming to you first i haven haven't heard any type of apology. I've just heard excuses that makes me feel uncomfortable that you're unwilling to have this conversation. I love you. And you'll say it softer. I'm saying it probably a little bit more direct, but she needs to because you're right. If I'm you, I would feel uncomfortable of letting my kids hang out with grandma alone at the risk of grandma sharing some of her own points of view that don't align with yours. And if she's not willing to acknowledge what she did was wrong, because like, listen, grandma, I'm afraid that you're going to tell a different joke in the future. Like, if your excuse is everything you say that is offensive as a joke, well, then maybe you just need new jokes.

And I don't want you telling jokes around my kids. And so I think you can hold family members accountable, even if they're your parents, especially as an adult, to own it and apologize. And if she doesn't, then set some boundaries. You know? Yeah. I love you.

I love you, mom. But until you come come until i need to know that you understand because this is i need to protect my family and my kids i need to protect my stepdaughter who might feel like an outsider and as much as you are my mom right now my priority is my immediate family and you know get on board or or you know miss the train um yeah that's funny you bring that up too because that was the next thing i was going to bring up is it's hurtful not just to my daughter but my stepdaughter because then she's like well what do you think of me what do you think of mom you know like, like that. I say this, I say this is not having my family of my own, but I've, I've heard too many stories of friends and,

you know, even in my family, you know, they right now we're talking a lot about like silence, right? People not saying anything. Yeah. And I got to say,

I can only assume that if your stepdaughter sees grandma coming along and and acting like all she she got a little bit of a lecture but now because what grandma's gonna want to do is just pretend nothing happened she's just gonna try to ignore it and go about things and i think your stepdaughter needs to see some real acknowledgement and apologize to her one-on-one or the family. And if she can't do it, then she might not be able to come. Because nothing's worse than feeling like you get victimized by a family member. Or they said something. Or something that offends you.

Or maybe they did something. And other people seem to be okay with it. And they keep showing up. And everyone acts like nothing's wrong. And that really can build up into some major resentment you know uh and the family um so and sometimes we have to make choices we have to make tough choices in family settings um and just side with the the right side you know so the right side is obviously you know you're on the right side but you gotta hold you gotta hold mom accountable because you're at the risk of really alienating

your daughters both your stepdaughter and your and your and your daughter so i guess my the biggest question i have is if you guys have any um idea of maybe an outside way that I could talk to her with it being, I would love for it to be constructive. I mean, people who think that way, their world is so, I mean, they're missing out on so much. So I don't know if there's a way I could even talk to her. I'm only guessing here again, I'm not a family counselor or therapist but i think you both have to somehow figure out a way to be mutually really expressive of the love you have for your mom but at the same time hold them accountable yeah yeah you know somebody the other day like show like uh i think you told them like why don't you guys sit down and watch something that's educational about this topic

that can actually help understand yeah if this was a was a joke, mom, then I need, you know, I need you to be open to understanding. It's what you really hurt me. You really hurt my daughter. You hurt my family. And I, it was a joke. Isn't it is a quite honestly, if that's, if that's what you think that that's just as bad and it hurts my feelings and you're my mom and i love you so much are you willing to um you know make it right make it not even make it you know just to learn again don't make her feel like she has to she has to do her penance or she has to like you know you're gonna punish her this is about growth this is about going forward but you need to know that she's willing to acknowledge what happened because otherwise she's not willing to acknowledge and you're not you're not going to believe that she's willing to have growth you know yeah don't make her feel like you're going to punish her or you know

your reason for maybe not having her over tonight or in future times is because she's just you giving her no she's giving you no reason to think that she really understands the problem and quite frankly you don't totally trust her being alone with your daughters because she might say some racist shit right well awesome yeah i was pretty proud to um like i told my 13 year old i'm going to talk to grandma when i did because that's not okay and you know i think i think they need to hear from grandma that grandma's sorry and grandma wants to get better and uh if grandma can't apologize i don't know if i don't know if grandma should come over right you know but hey it's your house

right uh yeah i just i've had you know various not not about this topic but when someone in the family is hurt by someone else in the family even if it's acknowledged but dismissed people notice that shit it's not good and uh it can make from from real bad family tension and uh nip that in the bud so maybe i'll just tell her that you should probably apologize or else this tension is going to, I mean, it's not going away. It's there. Yeah. The elephant in the room. I mean, listen, I love my RIP. I love my grandma and a wonderful woman of God.

And she's, she has said some shit where we're like, grandma, you can't say that and it definitely didn't come like she's like well that's just what we all called each other and like well fine that was 60 years ago grandma you know like he and it was a different situation it wasn't like she just was like it's weird shit they were just like we but we told her and she did not like it at first but she you know she came around and yeah yeah we different times and i get it you know she she definitely grew up in a different generation but i'd like to think yeah we can all evolve and hopefully you know grow our whole lives yeah you're right uh your mom's still alive

and if your mom's still alive she can still learn and she can still become a better person and uh if we're not growing we are dying remember remind grandma of that well yeah that's a little morbid but you know uh so all right well thank you for calling we appreciate it thanks so much you guys all right take care. How's it going? Hi, good. How are you? Good. What's your name?

Good. Lauren, and I'm 33. Hi, Lauren, 33. How can I help? So long story short, as I said in my email, three years ago, my husband ended up having an affair with a coworker of his at the time. At that time, we had been married six years. We had just had our first baby.

She was two and a half months old when it happened. But there's a lot of context that goes into kind of why it happened. We had a pretty tumultuous dating history up and down, back and forth, lots of breaking up, getting back together. We finally did the thing, got engaged, got married, thinking. He just had a lot of issues with commitment. We come from conservative backgrounds. When you get married, you stay married. And at our young age, that's kind of scary. So he didn't want to get into something and, you know, feel stuck. So we did it, got married. I was 24. He was 26 when we got married. So we brought all of that baggage into our marriage.

And there was just a lot of fighting, a lot of anger and bitterness on my end because I just hadn't really worked through the heartbreak that I experienced when we were dating. Because it was mostly him that would break it off just because he was afraid of the commitment. You got to do me a favor. You got to stop making excuses for him when you tell the story. I mean, I don't know why he cheated or did this stuff but yeah i mean it's not i guess it's just context yeah but no what it is is an excuse you've told yourself to make yourself feel better about his actions but continue yes that's yeah that's probably true yeah um so we just we had a really tough really marriage um it was not it was not easy it

was hard it was really hard um on both of us um and our pattern was he would you know i would get angry and he would retreat and the more he retreated the more angry i would get the more angry i would get the more he would treat that was that's that was our pattern um and so he was pretty just broken about where our relationship was at and um he had this co-worker that was also in a marriage that she was not happy in. And that was still three years ago. That was three years ago. Where are we now? So their affair lasted four months. He ended it when she was moving away.

So they kind of were at a crossroads. They weren't going to be able to see each other. So they either had to be together and leave their spouses or end it. And he chose to end it and didn't tell me until almost two years later when they had gotten back together at that point. He broke it off with her the first time around with the intent of always like knowing he was going to tell me that Um, that was why he broke it off because he wanted to be honest with me and, and hope that I would forgive him and stay with

him. Um, so fast forward two years and, um, he finally tells me, and at that point they're back together, had been talking for a couple months, and were planning to leave their spouses for each other at that point. And I just, I think I just was able to see what was really going on, that he was lost and broken and dead inside and making this choice that he thought would fulfill him. And I knew that that wasn't going to be the case. And I didn't want him to throw our life away, especially because we had a daughter for something that I knew wouldn't work anyway. And I just really felt compassion in my heart towards him and wanted to forgive him and stay together because despite what happened, my husband is a good person and he's a great father.

He has a lot of really great qualities. And I just saw that as something that could have been the turning point in our relationship. And it has been. So we spent the last year going to therapy, working really hard on our marriage to make it different than it had ever been. And it's now something we're both really proud of. I don't think the point of marriage is happiness, but hopefully if you're in a healthy marriage, that's a byproduct. What is the point? Well, we're Christians, so we definitely think marriage was pain and suffering

suffering it can be i grew up catholic you know we're big on suffering right right so someone to live life with someone to build a family with and someone to do uh you know whatever you feel like god has called you to do in life. So again, again, that's the question. Where are we now? And what's your question as it are you? Yeah. So my husband and I are really good. My question is like, I've just, I don't know. I just always felt compelled to forgive him.

And I never struggled with anger towards him. I think cause I had been angry for so long. It just, what came out instead with anger towards him. I think because I had been angry for so long, it's just what came out instead of sadness towards him. I really struggle with my anger towards the woman that he had the affair with. Well, you're just projecting on her. I mean, that anger. You chose not to be angry with your husband for the sake of your marriage and for yourself. I mean, listen, I'm glad things seem to be happy with her husband now.

As you tell your story, I feel sadness for you. And I feel like you've been hurt a lot over the years by your husband, quite frankly. And for your own self-preservation, you've made a shit ton of excuses for him and justified his actions. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm not saying he's a bad father. He's probably, again, good people do bad things all the time, right? We all do. We've all made mistakes. Right. That's exactly what I... Yeah. Fine. He's a good person who did a really horrible thing. But you have a right to be happy too. You have a right not to have the burden of this relationship fall totally

on you for every mistake he makes you figure out some sort of justifiable excuse that you can accept and live with and then start like displacing the fresh like this woman's i i hope not in your life anymore this anger you feel towards someone who's not involved it's quite silly that you feel anything towards her because she's not in your it's quite silly that you feel anything towards her because she's not in your life anymore. It makes sense why you do, but this anger really is towards him. She has her own shit

and maybe her husband and her are dealing with some shit. I don't know. It's kind of convenient that you've been able to understand your husband's point of view and understand, feel sadness for him and make all these excuses of why he's afraid of commitment. And it's probably so easy for you to be angry at her and be like, well, she probably knew and she did this and she manipulated him. I don't know what your thoughts are. My guess is you've probably had all of those thoughts and it's probably really easy to assume that she's not a great person, that she's selfish

and that she's doing your husband's selfish. I don't mean to drop this bomb on you, but he really only cares, at least in the past, about his own immediate needs. Maybe she is, too. I don't know. But you have been way too selfless you have he's been way too selfish and you have given him permission to do that again if it sounds like hopefully you are guys in a good place and you know that's great and you can forgive and you can move on um but

it sounds like you're still dealing with some shit about that and that's okay um but yeah definitely yeah until you address it yeah are you guys still seeing a therapist well we were until covid you know virtual you know you can do this with a therapist yeah we did a couple virtual but we just had a baby. Okay. I understand. We haven't gone back yet. Listen, I really appreciate you calling. But we plan to. Yeah, I really appreciate you calling and sharing.

But your road to recovery isn't over yet. And you still have, you know, and that's great that things are better now. But you have some trust issues, is my guess. You are angry at him. You just don't want to say it. And you're putting it. I think I, yeah. He hurt you.

I think absolutely. I mean, I have some self-awareness about it, that I'm, I'm scared to be angry at him. Yeah. You, yeah. I just, there's some things that I think what I struggle with is there, there are things outside of just the affair happening that she did that my husband didn't have control over. I want to say something to you. It was not her responsibility in any way to protect your relationship.

Right. So I just have to. Doesn't matter what. She could be a shitty person. Fine. But it's not in any way her responsibility to protect your relationship. It was your husband's and yours. He chose not to protect your relationship. She has nothing to do with it. If I'm dating a girl and she decides to fuck another dude,

I can be mad at him and my ego, but like, what is, it's not his fucking responsibility you know and even if he knows like yeah he could be it means he's a shitty guy but it's he is it's not his responsibility to protect my relationship with my girlfriend or wife it wasn't hers so all the energy and anger you have towards her is just kind of wasted and you're just projecting it away from your husband because you're too afraid to acknowledge that you have anger towards him. But you won't fully heal. You won't fully get over this until you address this anger you have towards your husband and then get through it.

And you need to really feel for him that he needs to acknowledge to you his selfish behavior. Yeah. And I mean, he has completely owned it. Okay, good. 100%. That's good. I don't think i could be with him if if he didn't and uh you have a right to still from time to time express some anger you have towards him but yeah the yeah i know and he tells me that yeah i'm happy you guys are still working towards it scares me yeah yeah i'm happy you guys are still working towards it. I think it scares me. Yeah. I'm happy you guys are still working towards it. But I think I'm a big believer in just, and I've said this before, be open to the possibility of this not working out.

And not because you should leave, but that gives you some freedom to really see things clear. Because then you can really know that, am I forgiving him and getting through this because I'm willing to? Because I'm willing to leave if I need to, but we did work it out, right? Because if there is no option for you to leave, then how do you really know

of whether you're able to forgive him because you're doing it because you've decided that you can't. Does that make sense? I don't even know if it makes sense to me. Yeah, I don't think so. You need to be open. It does.

I don't think I decided that I couldn't. I just- I feel like you decided that you couldn't. It was just a choice I wanted to make. Yeah, I don't know. I don't really believe that. I mean, listen, you have incredible patience. He hurt you immensely.

No human should be that patient about any relationship. And I don't care if you have a daughter together, you deserve to be treated, you know, with more respect. And it must have been an intense burden that you had to carry. And part of that was because you were unwilling to leave. And a lot of people do that. They get in relationships, they get cheated on, and they don't leave until the other person leaves them you know like they put up with so much shit because they're like let's take me back take me back and like even though they're being cheated on they're trying to get the other person who cheated on them back people do that all the time and i'm guessing there's a point that you were doing that but um yeah it's like you're on your way um but still yeah you're not mad at her you're mad at him yeah it's not

her responsibility to protect that relationship doesn't matter right so me even whatever fucked up shit she did still not her job to protect your relationship it was his and he and he chose not to maybe he is now so i just have to work through that yeah and figure out how to. Maybe he is now. So I just have to work through that and figure out how to put my anger to him and not to her. Yeah. And then hopefully in productive ways through therapy and counseling and with the understanding of giving yourself permission

to leave if that's what you deserve. And the expectation that he will still be a great father to your daughter. But sometimes consequences, you know, he made his choices and he has to live with the consequences, whatever those are. And, you know, listen, I wish you guys the best. I hope that you guys are able to get through this.

Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I have confidence that we will. Good. But it's going gonna come for you being really honest with yourself about this and because being mad at her will not fix anything right no i know that and that's why i caught it with that question because it's yeah it's driving me crazy like i know it's not healthy i know it's not there's no point in being mad at her.

It just, I think it comes with when something like that happens. I don't know. It's like, it's like walk. It's like stubbing your toe on a door and yelling at the door. Right. Stupid door. That's what it's like yelling at her. Yeah.

Yeah. If you just weren't there, door. It's a good one so no it's true it's you know with but we do that we do that a lot you're not the only one who wants i went i've literally yelled at the door for stubbing my toe so you know it's okay forgive yourself right all right all right well thank you my pleasure thank you and good luck. I wish you the best. Thanks. All right. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. How's it going? Okay. So I have been in a wonderful open relationship for the last few years, actually getting married in a few months. But my question, thank you. My question is not really about that. So it's about a friend of mine who is a dear friend who I've known for almost 15 years. friend who I've known for almost 15 years. And when we first met, we were friends with benefits off and on for several years. And then I got into a relationship, monogamous relationship. So we maintained a friendship, a really good friendship. And then about five years ago,

we just had one weekend together we hooked up um and since then we've still stayed really close friends and recently we've just kind of started crossing that line again um we're talking about you know getting together again sharing those experiences um the tricky part the part that i have a question about is I had my first orgasm when I was 24. So not for a long time, which is not uncommon at all with women. And so this time that him and I used to be, you know, friends with benefits involved. I never had an orgasm. And so I always faked it as a lot of women do just out of, you know, I didn't even know what an orgasm felt like. So I wanted to, you know, have a good experience. Everything felt great.

So, you know, I figured good enough, I'm going to fake it. So I've never gotten off with this person. And now that we're talking about getting together again, I'm just not really sure how to navigate that. I don't want to fake it anymore. I don't even know if I really could at this point. And I think I'm pretty nervous because a lot of what he talks about, what he wants out of the experience is getting me off. And he's saying a lot of, I can't wait to get you off again, all this stuff. So I kind of feel like I'm lying by omission and I'm not really sure how to navigate that going forward, if I should say anything. So just so I understand and the people listening at home understand, you are in a happy, committed, open relationship.

You are about to get married to this person. And it sounds like your future husband and fiance, is it a man or a woman? It's a man, yeah. Okay. And your future husband, you know, he's cool with all this. Yeah, very supportive. Yeah. And so I can only assume for the few people I know in open relationships, they're really good at communication with their partners and openness, right?

Yeah. with their partners and openness, right? Yeah. So I guess I'm wondering, you know, why are you having such a hard time being open with this other person? You know, I don't know too much about open relationships, but I don't know why you're spending so much energy wondering what you should do about this thing, especially that you have this marriage coming up and this open relationship.

Again, I don't know the answers to open relationship, but I would assume that you can do your thing, you can step out, you can have out you can have relationships and i'm sure there's various rules but the bulk of your energy should go towards the actual relationship that you're in so i guess my answer your short answer your question is like yeah you should be honest with him i mean you're right he should you know he that's how many years later he should listen like um all you're gonna hurt potentially potentially is his ego and if he is the type of guy who can't possibly understand the possibility that when he had sex with a woman who was much younger she faked an orgasm part of which is because she didn't and herself totally know what an orgasm was.

That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I remember when I had sex when I was younger, and you're two kids, you're just like, did you have an orgasm? I'm like, yeah. I'm like, are you sure? Or did you just make a lot of noises? And like, I felt good. I don't know.

That's just part of life. And as you get older, you just recognize that's the reality. You see enough of movies, like sitcoms, that talk about the idea of faking orgasms and guys think they're all that and etc etc so if this guy isn't mature enough to handle the truth that maybe when you guys had sex before that you weren't getting off the way you're getting off now then i don't know if he's really worth your time uh to have this uh another relationship with or you know what it just seems like a a lot of wasted energy and if you still want to do it then i'm curious as to why you're interested in having it's like a fun it's like to be honest it's like, to be honest, it seems like, and we do this with ourselves, we get wrapped up in some sort of drama that really has no impact on our actual immediate

life. And we jump into these drama situations to, I don't know, because we're bored or we're, we want, we like to, we like to distraction about something else. Because to me, it's just like, all all right either hook up with this guy or don't hook up with this guy and and if you do like if you don't tell him also like who cares because you're this is just going to be like a a temporary thing or you know like this is not your main relationship i just don't know what there's really no wrong wrong or right answer because it's kind of like that he knows you're married, right?

Or getting married. Yeah. Oh yeah. So like who gives a shit what he thinks? I mean, this is about you. Yeah. It's, I guess it's a, it's a friendship that I've had for so long and somebody I really, really care about and have a strong emotional bond with. So I don't know. And I think women a lot of the time assume that men are, I guess, too sensitive to be told something like that. I mean, I've talked to so many girlfriends who have gone through similar things or, you know,

they've been faking it for years because, because they just don't know how to even broach that topic. Totally. And there's such an expectation. Not only are you supposed to get off, but you're supposed to get off really fast. And so many women just assume that. Yeah. Not to make this kind of a bigger picture thing.

And we've talked about this a lot on this podcast. Listen, it's not women's responsibility to train men to be good men or attentive men. But in a relationship of any kind, we need to hold each other accountable and we need to be able to have tough and honest conversations in any relationship, any friendship, romantic or otherwise. So if this guy is truly the friend that you say he is yeah this could be a gift you're giving him he should be like men you know men need to be more open and honest with the possibility that they're not the sexual dynamos that they all like to think they are and yeah sometimes women you know at the risk of hurting the sensitive guy's feelings just like shoot them straight you know um because otherwise we just keep lying to

each other and ourselves and so you know you have this like recipe for guys thinking they're getting women off and women like telling the guys are getting them off and everyone's just like you know living this lie no one's getting off well he's probably getting off but um so be the friend be the friend i mean he can't be that sensitive i mean if he is that sensitive that it hurts his feelings but hey listen hey newsflash when we were 24 i i didn't really know what an orgasm was certainly not what it is now and you but also god it's been so long i'm i'm guessing he fucks differently. I bet he's had a lot of other women in between. He's, you know, you have no idea what he's like.

So have a conversation with him. And you know what? Tell you what, if you do hurt his feelings, then you definitely needed to have that conversation with him because he needs to wake up and he needs to mature and he needs to hear it from somebody. And what better person to hear it from than someone who is a good friend, who's been romantically involved with, someone who doesn't have to worry about getting married to because she's getting married to someone else. There's a lot of ways for him to not take this personally.

But also, just because you didn't get off then doesn't mean you won't get off now. Yeah. I really like that perspective on how it could be a useful thing to hear. Cause I think that's true. Just encouraging like, Oh, do this, it works. And then, you know, if it doesn't, then he's bringing that to somebody else that doesn't do anyone any good. I guess I have some guilt about lying or about not being honest about what was happening before. So maybe I'm worried more about that than about hurting his feelings. Again, it was just so long ago. We have created an environment in our society between men and women that we lie to each other about this stuff because it's uncomfortable. And we just got to break through that barrier of being more open and honest.

Did you have, did you orgasm? Nope, I didn't this time. Okay, well, we'll try again next time. Oh, you don't have an orgasm when you have sex? Okay, let's, what, you know, it just, and through that honesty, sometimes you maybe realize, well, maybe we're just not compatible having sex, you know? And if you don't want to have that awkward conversation, you just want to like leave the relationship.

That's fine too. Yeah. You know? But yeah, I, if you want to go down this path, be honest with them. And if you don't,

you don't have to, that's fine too. But if you're bothered by the potential lie, then, you know, I don't think there's a lot of downside here. I think there's a lot of upside. Yeah. And it could be a gift you're giving them. But yeah, don't make any more assumptions about how we might interpret it or whatnot. about how he might interpret it or whatnot. Yeah, I just think, you know, if, like I said, if he handles it badly, that's a big thing you definitely needed to tell him.

Cause then he really, it's like, did you really think that wasn't a possibility that women at 24 years old, like might not have realized what- An orgasm was? Yeah. How to fake it? You know, and even if you did, knowing that you didn't have one, Hey,

listen, I just didn't want to hurt your feelings. And I just thought, well, you know, I don't know. And if he handles it very immaturely, then you just be like, as a friend, you need to not do this to other women you date because you sound like a dick. It's not all about you, you know? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. sound like a dick it's not all about you you know um yeah yeah absolutely and i think my communication wasn't so good back then and being in this open relationship has just made that go leaps and bounds so that makes it a lot less don't be so hard on yourself about the fact that you weren't able to have that conversation well most people aren't yeah um but it's good that you're open to trying

and it's it's important for guys to be good at hearing this without like being so offended about their like their dick skills you know like some people just i don't know dick skills yeah i mean listen if you're if no one tells you that you're not doing it right you just keep doing it thinking you're doing it right oh that's and you're different than other women there might be plenty of women who actually did get off you know and this was six years ago so yeah absolutely yeah kind of practice what you preach in in your current relationship to your ancillary relationships that you have. Take that honesty outside. Yeah.

So that's it. Okay. All right. That's great. Well, congratulations on the upcoming marriage. Sounds wild. I do have, you know. Thank you.

Cool. I am curious. It sounds like you guys plan on keeping this openness when you get married absolutely yeah probably always i can't imagine now going back um it's just been really great good for you guys yeah but uh my only advice to you being someone who doesn't know much about it is have the same type of healthy relationships in these kind of side side relationships as you're doing your current one otherwise yeah you know otherwise like it's what that's so weird to like well i'm gonna have a really healthy relationship with my marriage but

my side pieces are gonna be potentially toxic yeah absolutely i love that yeah all right good luck congratulations thanks all right take care all all right right well that's all we have for today uh what fun fun uh a little bit of variety some some heaviness um i'm really enjoying uh you the questions we're getting i find them to be relatable and interesting and i think we all learn a little bit but uh i don't know if there's a big takeaway other than uh be open today's takeaway is definitely be open be honest have the honest conversations even though they're uncomfortable for sure especially with yourself and uh you know build build your build your circle of people know, everyone needs a support system wherever they get it from

and everyone deserves that. And sometimes it just has to be in places that we wouldn't normally think to have it. So other than that, thanks for listening, guys. I always appreciate you taking the time. Don't forget to rate us on iTunes,

those five stars. We love them. We need them. We like you to pander us with compliments. Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. Other than that, we

will see you tomorrow, as always. Thanks for listening.