The Viall Files - E159 Ask Nick - Sexual Free Agent

Episode Date: August 3, 2020

On today’s episode of Ask Nick we first speak with a frequent dater who is realizing that she is only seeing people that validate her ego instead of her heart. Then, Nick gives some advice to a woman who, because of her religious background, has not had many sexual experiences and is wondering if she is a-sexual or just doesn't know what turns her on…yet. Next, a husband's affair with a family friend has one of our callers trying to figure out her options and if she can continue to be with someone that she doesn’t trust (and recognizing that starting over at 40 might be freeing!) Finally, The Viall Files has its first couple who moved to a new state and in together prior to the pandemic which has since forced their living situation to be the complete opposite of what they had planned.  “You deserve to be with someone that you trust and didn’t hurt you. ”  Thank you for sending in your questions, we love hearing from you. Send all your relationship questions to [e-mail] and as always, make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: HELLO FRESH: hellofresh.com/viallfiles80 CODE: villafiles80 SHIP STATION: shipstation.com CODE: viall Episode Socials:  Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what is going on everybody happy monday to you all uh i'm nick i don't know if you know that i don't know why i keep introducing myself. Because what if somebody is new listening? I guess. Yeah. Anyways, I'm Nick. I'm your host of this show. Joined by my producer Chrissy. Chrissy, how are you? Good. How are you? How was your trip? You know, it was good to be home. I was home in Wisconsin seeing the fam. And always nice to... I i love wisconsin in the summer i wish uh i'd like to get back there more in the in the summertime it's a quite delightful thunderstorms bonfires a real a real treat i really a true summer a true summer vibe true summer vibes uh well we're gonna keep this intro brief but a couple things i i want to say first off uh i'm on to speak to my ask nick audience i gotta say you know obviously for those of you who have been following this podcast for a

while you've kind of noticed this kind of format we have our mondays ask nick episodes when bachelor's on we're you know our tuesday kind of bachelor of theme stuff and then our kind of flagship main show, which is our very interesting, thought-provoking guests from personalities to experts and et cetera, et cetera. But I gotta say when it comes in an Ask Nick episode, it's probably one of my favorite. It's my favorite.

I hope that you guys get a lot of benefit from it and enjoyment out of it. It is helpful to me as well. I look forward to coming and doing these. I find it therapeutic for myself. So I just want to say thank you for being a part of our Monday shows. As well as, you know, when we get reviews on the show, like on iTunes, I really appreciate some of the Ask Nick reviews. It warms my heart. So if you guys do have the time, if you're listening to this and you feel so inclined to go over to iTunes and give us a review regarding the Ask Nick episodes, especially if it's five stars, and if it's just brief, it doesn't have to be long, just could just

be something real quick, or maybe just give the stars. I just want to say, I would really appreciate that. I hope that's okay to say. And I just want to say thank you for listening. And yeah, I really, this show means a lot to me. And it really means a lot when people post it on their social

and they share it and they write and say they've told their friends. They get really vulnerable with us and share some of the most intimate details of their lives with us. Yeah, it means a lot. So I just want to say thanks. And then I do have an announcement to make about a project I've been working on personally. I floated it out there before. It's now out. It's now available. I decided through the summer and quarantine, I decided through the summer and quarantine I was looking what could I do what would be fun people have always asked me would I ever write a

tell-all about my experience on The Bachelor and I was like nah that's not really for me it seems it's too one-sided it's like it's you know I don't know it seems a little not your jam not my jam and then I thought to myself well there's these recap podcasts out there like the office ladies and things like that and then hbo max made my season available um on hbo max so if you are out there and you want to watch it and i thought well wouldn't it be fun to maybe recap my season three years later having three years gone past the emotions are a lot less personal and so i was like i'll just recap it i'll i'll do this thing and i didn't want to do it on the vile files because i like the format that we have and i didn't want to insert it that way and then i had this idea

i'm like what what if i ask some of the women for my season if they want to be a part of it kind of fill in the gaps all the women like all the women so i did that you know i thought well it would be kind of fun to do a tell-all but i don't want to just tell my version i would like yeah i would like to tell my version but then have them kind of fill in the gaps of things that i might not even be aware of so i asked a bunch of the women from my season if they want to be a part of it they all said yes um that's amazing and so there's 10 episodes i've already we've finished eight vanessa say yes pardon me did vanessa say yeah vanessa said yes that's the last one's vanessa and i gotta say it's it's good and it's like the first honest conversation we had and we recorded it and it was and you're probably probably able to separate from all that. It was, you know, we had a conversation.

I asked her and then we had a conversation. You know, she's like, she wanted to talk and it was good. But we've never really had this conversation. It's been three years and we have a very, I think, productive and nice conversation. But there's certainly some honest takeaways. So it's going to be available i'm launching a patreon it's or it's launched i'm recording this beforehand but it's out now you can find the link on my instagram in my bio i'll be promoting it and i'm sure some of

the women will be sharing it as well uh so the episode one is uh me Angela. Angela, I sent home night one and we have a fun conversation about that. You shouldn't have sent her home. And that episode two is with the wonderful Alexis. We kick episode three. I have a very honest conversation with Corinne, the bouncy castle and all about her experience. That was a lot of fun talking to Corinne.

Raven, episode four. Jasmine, episode, no, I'm sorry, Taylor, to talk about all things the two in one in New Orleans. Taylor and Corinne, drama episode five. Jasmine, episode

six, I finally get some answers of why she choked me. That actually was a lot of fun talking to jasmine jasmine's the one doing vanderpump rules too is she i don't know but anyways i had i i was like who should i ask for this episode and i was like no jasmine she choked me and she choked me and i gotta say i had a ton of fun talking to jasmine um danielle moppy episode six uh rachel lindsey for hometowns i haven't recorded the fantasy suite episode because i've recorded episodes with those three women involved and i thought it'd be kind of weird i don't i might just do it on my own yeah i just kind of talk

about my perspective in that week and then i end it with vanessa to talk about it and we we keep we kind of it's a combination of recapping the episodes. We kind of go episode by episode, but then we will bounce around from the women's personal experiences and they share stories about the house and, and interactions. And there's a lot of moments of me telling them and about things that were going on that they never knew. And a lot of like, Oh, really? And that was like kind of a i think it was therapeutic for us all and fun and it's it was nice because we all did it under a lens of it's we're three years removed and and we all had we there are a lot of people personally affected by the experience

but now with it being removed it's it's fun to be able to talk about it in a more honest way um so yeah it's available and the goat episode of my season is being aired on august 31st on abc so make sure to check that out so this will fit in between so i'm dropping the first the first four episodes are out now they are on my patreon so uh angela alexis corinne and raven are are all available. And there's an audio option and there's an audio and video option. It's five bucks a month for the audio and then one more dollar for the video.

If you think of it this way, it's like 10 hours of an audio book of a tell-all format. That's less than what you'd pay for an audio book. It's commercial free. There's no commercials. So I did it myself. I produced it. I did the whole thing on my own.

It was a lot of fun and just a fun project so if you guys want to check it out it's there uh i hope you enjoy it it was if you're looking for a fun audio book if you will it's basically like that and like in a podcast format i don't know i don't know how else to describe it if this thing works out we'll keep uh i think uh my my partner my friend kyle who's kind of a part of it he was my roommate at the time and he has some stories as well so i may just end up starting recapping other things on like netflix things that are trending just like my random thoughts on tv if the people who are subscribing enjoy it and we'll just see where this project goes but uh the first four episodes now i'll be dropping uh episode uh

five taylor's episode in the middle of the month uh this month so like in two weeks and then the other five episodes will be uh dropped on september 1st right after the episode of uh on abc airs um so that will be jasmine danielle uh rachel um fantasy suite and then the the big one with vanessa which i don't have time for all this and skating it's good and seeing your family we recorded them all in one week so it was like back to and i did like it was it was uh it was a fun week it was we just i recorded them all from my house and Kyle and I did it. And then obviously I had to package them and edit it together. And, but be, you know, so the audio is really, you know, a fun listen to, but, you know, there's elements in the video that, you know, we kind of point things out or I, you know, this thing that Corinne gave me, I still had, and we talk about that. And, you know, Vanessa asked me some questions about wonder if things I still have that we, you know, bought together.

And it was kind of interesting. And so check it out. Again, it's available. You can find the link on my Instagram. And I hope that you guys enjoy it. If you run out of things to watch or listen to um it is it is there and uh i'll uh keep bringing out more content on my patreon going forward so i thought this would be a good thing to kick off the content it's getting

content's getting low out there yeah so it's good that you're making new stuff so i hope you guys enjoy it maybe maybe no one will listen to it i don't know but i think you'll want to i do yeah um so yeah with that being said um i think you're really going to enjoy this episode um some really vulnerable callers yeah i really appreciate and uh i guess without further ado we should just get right to it and as always once again thank you guys so much for taking the time on your Mondays or listening to our Ask Nick episodes and promoting us

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How's it going? Hey, going good. Thanks for having me. I'm Tori and I'm 26. Hi, Tori, 26. How can I help? Okay, so my question really has to do with dating confidence. I'll try to provide a little bit of context so that my question makes sense. So since my last relationship ended, I've been dating super casually, not really looking for anything that serious. I kind of just wanted to have some fun. And I definitely have been. I'm one of those people that actually really enjoys dating. But I've kind of realized that the way that I've been dating has just kind of been a way to serve my ego.

And I certainly love a good defense mechanism, but I'm kind of over it at this point. And recently, this really attractive guy that I've gone out with just a few times now, kind of made me realize that I'm super intimidated by good looking men to the point where I feel less confident and less secure with him than I do with the type of guys that I normally go out with. And I mean, they haven't been losers by any means, but I wouldn't like see them in a crowd and pick them out and be like, Oh my God, you're so hot. So anyways, I'm usually like so confident in my dating life. But honestly, I feel like these insecurities that I'm having about dating really attractive men because it's not how I normally operate.

It feels kind of like my dirty little secrets that I have in like an area of myself that I don't really like to look into because I don't really like feeling vulnerable even in my own head. So kind of throw me for a loop. I mean, like I know that I'm more than just what I look like and I know I have so much more to offer than just that. So I'm really just like not sure why I'm caught up in this all of a sudden. I guess I just feel like I'm being evaluated more harshly based on how I look. And I would even say that like, how a guy looks has never been a huge priority for me. But after being with this guy that's like, attractive to me and I'm kind of obsessed with physically, I am realizing that maybe physical attraction is more important to me than I thought that it was. And with that, maybe I'm not as confident as I thought I was.

And I guess like I should be investing in relationships and sex with people that I'm genuinely attracted to. So I just feel like this is kind of a confidence issue that I need to get past so I can get what I really want. So my question really is like, how can I be so confident with what I have to offer men emotionally and mentally, especially when I don't feel challenged by them? But the second that I perceive them as being too attractive

or too good for me, like, why do I shut down and start to feel so insecure? Um, yeah, great question. I have all the answers for you. I'm just curious. When was your last relationship? Then when did it end? Yeah, so it was about a year and a half ago and it was a four year relationship that I ended up leaving. We were just kind of going through the motions talking about engagement, but I realized that we were just taking next steps because they were next steps, not because it's what I really wanted.

Sure. Um, okay. Yeah. What you are doing is, is can be pretty typical. Um, I've dated a lot of, like you. What I mean by that is, how do I say this? Listen, yes, what you've gotten yourself into a bad pattern, right? And this pattern is like, it's good that you enjoy dating because dating can be a struggle, but what you don't enjoy dating, what you have been enjoying is kind of collecting notches on your belt, so to speak. You are someone who, you know, just to oversimplify and play the number

game, you think of yourself as a nine who's used to dating sixes and sevens who make you feel very beautiful and very desired and chase you and you constantly feel you're in total control like you honestly don't even probably even like any of these guys all that much you're what you like is how they make you feel about yourself because they're constantly pining for your attention and affection and they literally quite literally and or figuratively uh praise the like the ground that you walk on so to speak and that like you said that has filled your ego with a lot of confidence but it's a false sense of confidence in in terms of and so then you meet this guy who you're physically attracted to and quite frankly he's probably not all that special what he is is he makes you he like when i say i've dated a lot

of women like you is that like i've dated a handful of women that are quite beautiful i think are great and they're wonderful and then they meet me who i don't i don't think i'm all special anything what i am is i'm not like a lot of guys they've dated before because they've expressed this to me is i'm not worshiping them off the bat i dated before because they've expressed this to me is I'm not worshiping them off the bat. I'm figuring out whether I like them or not. I'm trying to get to know them. I don't act all in immediately like a lot of the other people. They're used to going on dates, and I'm sure you are as well, after the first date. And every first date with these guys that you're used to going on a date are, they're like, oh, I have such a great time. When can I see you again?

You're amazing. And you're just, you've come to expect this, right? But you've been going out with a certain type of guy just to fill that ego. Like that's been your baseline. And then you run into this guy who's, you know, probably your equal, right? But you haven't seen it that way. And all you're feeling is vulnerability, right? You're feeling the vulnerability of this could not work out and you know what it might not work out and

what you have to do and how to get over this is you have to accept vulnerability you have to change the way you go about dating and the reason like you almost in a weird way you need to hate dating a little bit more than you do because dating should be hard. Dating is about trial and error. It's about swinging and missing. It's about going out and be frustrated because you don't like someone and then going out and be frustrated because you like someone and they don't necessarily like you. This is dating. And dating in that way is going to allow you to actually meet someone that you're mutually interested in each other. And there's a mutual level of respect and there's a mutual level of compatibility.

And one person doesn't feel like they have an overwhelming amount of power influence over the other. Right. Yeah. I think that's definitely the problem. Like it's a consistent pattern, but it'll be like second date. And the guy will be like,

Oh, like, where do you see this going? Like, what do you like? What are we? And I'm like, I haven't even saved your you see this going? Like, what are we? And I'm like, I haven't even saved your number on my phone. Like, what are you talking about? And it's definitely a sense of power thing. And I love that. I like just don't know how

to break away from that. What makes you say yes to a date? Because I try not to rule people out just because I usually like date online. Sure. Um, it's fun. Like, I really like to go meet new people. Um, the shallow part, I like to talk about myself and get some drinks. Like, it's fun. I really enjoy it. I feel like I'm going to be bamboozled one day when I actually meet somebody.

Well, you, yes, you are. You're, you're setting yourself up to be really crushed by a guy. You probably don't even like that much. Yeah. But all he really is is someone who you're going to end up chasing this guy and get like this one guy you're talking about. I don't even know. Like what you know you like about him is that you're physically attracted to him and that he's not obsessed with you. That's all you really probably know about him.

And quite honestly, that's not also not a reason to like fall for someone i mean it's good that you reckon like you're fine you're physically attracted to him right but like you have caught your you got yourself caught up in a situation where um he you know he he makes you self-conscious only because you're so used to being in control right um so you need to reevaluate how you go about going on dates. Maybe like you've had your fun, that's good, right? But like you need to seem self-aware, that's good, right? But now you need to maybe pre-select dates that you go on. Be like, what do I like about this guy?

What do I really like? Can I see myself going out with this guy you know and and stop you you've become addicted to this kind of attention that these guys are giving you yeah i knew you were gonna give me some harsh feedback but you're not wrong um yeah you're again you really are setting your like that's that's not the confidence you know it's kind of sometimes what I tell my peers on social media. Like, sometimes the positive comments are just as harmful to your mental health as the negative ones because the positive comments give you a false sense of confidence. And then all of a sudden, someone comments, you're a shitty loser, and it will destroy the person who's just used to positive reinforcement, but that's false positive reinforcement. And that's the same way you've kind of set yourself up for getting this very, you feel confidence, but it's all, it's all kind of fake. You know, it's based off of people

filling your, filling your ego and guys praising you. And then you don't even appreciate you've gotten used to it. Something you've come to expect. And you need to kind of check yourself. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's like a reason that I called in because you always give the tough love. I'm a recently new listener. But like the people in my life are always being like, oh, you're so confident. I wish I could be more like you, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, but I'm not always, but I'm almost branded as this person who just like has it all figured out. And I'm like, I really don't. You probably, yeah, you probably are confident in a lot of ways, but there's definitely,

listen, we all have our insecurities, every single person and the people who truly are confident are people who can recognize that and put it out there. So it's good that you recognize that you're feeling this way, but you are setting yourself up for some major disappointment and you are setting yourself up for chasing someone that makes you feel insecure because you're trying to validate your ego, not necessarily your heart, because all you know is that they make you feel confused and worried and you're not used to that. And why don't you like me? You know, I've, I've definitely dated girls like you and it's,

and it's, you know, and they'll tell me like, oh, I'm just used to these guys doing this and this. And I'm like, I listen, I like you. You're great. I see you as my equal, but like, I don't know yet. We'll see. I'm trying to get to know you. You know, I don't worship you. I think you're beautiful and funny and smart, but like, I don't know if we're compatible yet. Let's keep hanging out. And it has affected some of my relationships with these girls where I just like, I, that, that's been the turnoff for me where it I can tell they're expecting some level of praise. And I'm like, I want, I'm looking for someone who wants to be my equal. I'm not looking to, you know, constantly fill this

like constant need for praise and validation. Like I'm all for like, you know, fulfilling your love language that might be like words of affirmation, but like sometimes it feels almost a little unhealthy and a little too much. And I'm just, and it seems like you're expecting me to like, do what some of these other guys made you feel guys that you didn't want to date guys that you left, you know, I've had this happen before. So you need to really be aware of that. And it's good that you are, but you need to stop, you need to reevaluate what, how you're going, what you're saying yes to in these dates. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like, I totally agree. Um, it's been fun, but like,

I'm just, I know like eventually I've got to start taking like who I date seriously because I do want equal, like I want somebody that challenges me. And like, my biggest turnoff is being able to walk all over people, but it's also like what I'm initially like go after because I do like that control and that power yeah it's like it's it's like being addicted to sugar and knowing you're going to feel shitty but you just still eat it because it gives you some sort of instant gratification and so you need to stay away from that uh you need when you go out with dates you should wonder am i nervous about this person not liking me? For you, that should be a good baseline for saying yes to a date. Like who knows, like you may end up meeting them and like hate

them and find them obnoxious and maybe they, but you should have a sense of nervousness about them liking you. You're literally kind of the opposite from a lot of the people we, who call in, who I say stuff like you, you need to expect more than just having a guy like you but you're kind of the opposite you're the exception in this situation but there are yeah there are people i think i'm the fuck boy pardon me so i think i'm the fuck boy in most of my dating situations yeah i mean again what you've you've been you've gotten obsessed with this your ego has really kind of taken over you've become obsessed with this yeah you're collecting notches on a belt like a fuck boy would for sure what you're doing now is definitely a path to

nowhere yeah it's not serving me it's really just like serving my ego so i'm like really aware of that but i just don't know where to like i don't know how to shut that part of me off well being aware of it's a good start but you just have have to, again, with this guy, just try to get to know him. You know, stop trying to evaluate why you like him and just get to know him. See where it goes. uh, making him feel like he is doing something wrong by taking things slow because he's not moving at the pace. Some of these other guys have moved at, you will push them away. Okay. I actually wrote into your Instagram asking it like two weeks ago and asked about the same question you responded. Um, and you said like, if you keep acting like you're not good enough

for them, eventually they're going to believe that. true he's right so i asked him out on a second date and we ended up like having a great time yeah but it's like i have these like momentary moments of like you know what like i can do this why i'm why do i feel like i'm not good enough for these people but then like i guess my inner like shell will come out and like my inner insecurities i'm like damn like that's true i want to be vulnerable with the people you date but maybe not in that way in the first couple dates you constantly don't want to be like i don't know you're too hot for me you know like what is that like beauty is in the eye of a holder you know like for all you know like you're his like physical sexual napalm you don't

know like um you're a pretty girl and to some, you are probably the perfect girl. And the other guys are like, yeah, she's pretty, but she doesn't do it for me. You know, that's, that's everyone. So, uh, you got to stop being so obsessed with your own physical appearance. And then, you know, if a guy says he finds you attractive, just believe him. Okay. You know, easy enough. All right. I think you're, i think you're gonna be okay but yeah you'd uh it's a good thing you've addressed it but you definitely need to you need to police yourself okay i will work on it you gotta be okay with being hurt yeah well well i'll get started

i'll try my best all right best of luck i really appreciate your time my pleasure all right bye-bye bye how's it going uh i'm good thanks how are you good what's your name uh my name is heather and i am 34 hi heather how can i help well uh my main question is should i have some casual sex to figure out if i'm asexual so let me tell you my tale okay uh so i grew up in an extremely religious household um i was mormon okay um where obviously sex before marriage wasn't even an option um i left the religion about four years ago. Okay. But I still feel like it messes with my brain, obviously, still in a lot of ways. Sure. Especially regarding sex.

I think after so long repressing my sex drive, perhaps I'm still repressed. So I've also never had sex really, or a relationship. I'm 34. And last year, for the first time ever, I fooled around with a guy about three different times, but we never had intercourse. So that's my only sexual experience. None of those times was really great for me. But we didn't spend a lot of time with foreplay, and he seemed to mostly focus on his pleasure. Unfortunately, that's not terribly uncommon in the world. But what do you mean by asexual?

um what when you say what do you mean by asexual like i mean that's regardless of uh of your religious upbringing and your lack of sexual experience you seem to have this very specific question about yourself and that is wondering if you don't care about sex yeah that's kind of that's kind of, that's kind of it. I don't feel like really attracted to a lot of people. Um, like, uh, it takes a, it takes a long time for me to become attracted to like people. Um,

and so I'm kind of, but I'm also just kind of wondering, should I like jumpstart, uh, would, would having like casual sex, like just with somebody that I did consider like super attractive, maybe that would like jump start something in me and i would well let's take a step back from like your actual dating life sure when you're watching tv or movies or or walking

around in the world who are you attracted to like i mean are you are you certain you're attracted to men could you be attracted to women uh i have thought about that but i i don't i've never been attracted to a woman that i am aware of uh what do you mean you thought about that but you've never been attracted to a woman that you're aware of because clearly i'm assuming uh your religion had very strong opinions about sure um homosexuality oh absolutely uh no i've just i've never like so i've i've been attracted to men before like i like when i when i am considering like oh i should have sex with people like men men seem to be like what okay i what i'm drawn to but like like yeah um probably not women yeah okay yeah um i mean i don't think you need to go have a bunch of sex to figure out if you're asexual or not i mean you can probably watch porn and figure it out just as easily you know what i'm saying like you can

just try to consume like evaluate your sexuality and what turns you on um i mean tmi but do you masturbate uh i do um uh i well so that's a that's another thing like i so when i masturbate like i don't um i don't uh usually get off just with myself like i have to use a vibrator okay that's not uncommon that certainly doesn't make you asexual um what do you think of my question is what are you what are you thinking about when you're doing that uh not not too much uh uh i don't have a fantasy i guess i think you're thinking you're thinking about something you're not you know it's a weird and it's a weird conversation to bring my mom into it but my mom used to always say well here we go there's a segue my mom would always say growing up because she'd always ask me what are you thinking about and i'd be like nothing and she's like you can't think about nothing which is true and so regardless of

you know so when you're masturbating you are definitely thinking about something so next time you do that think about what you're thinking about. Think about what turns you on. The fact that you are masturbating by yourself would lead me to believe, without being any sort of sexual expert whatsoever, that you're not asexual. The fact that it might take you longer to want to be physical or intimate with anyone does not make you asexual. You work at a slower pace and there's nothing wrong with that you're a sexual free agent you know what i'm saying like you're you're really you're your world is your oyster in terms of what you can be and what you might be and what you are attracted to and there's no right or wrong answers and so think of it that way of kind of like this

sexual free agent of like i really i have all the choices in the world and I'm excited about the journey to figure it out. And just try to be present with your thoughts, whatever they are, when you're watching TV or watching movies or reading a magazine or watching porn, what is it that attracts, what you find attractive? And then whatever that is,

go down that path and explore it more and see if that's what you really are turned on by or maybe it's just like a weird kink i don't know when you won't masturbate think about what you're thinking about when you masturbate you definitely don't need to go fuck a bunch of guys or women whatever you're attracted to, to figure out whether your sex drive is there or not, if that makes sense. I think there's other things you can do prior to that to figure out what you are open to. If you want to experiment, by all means, go for it. But I don't think you need to force the issue in that department before you're ready. I don't think you need to force the issue in that department before you're ready. I see.

Okay. So I guess your advice is just so, yeah, think about what I'm thinking about when I'm masturbating and then watch a lot of porn. Well, if you wanted to oversimplify it, sure. But my general advice is be present with your thoughts, especially when you are thinking about what you're attracted to. When you're having these thoughts and you're wondering about whether you're asexual, just think about what you're thinking about. You know, you are thinking about something.

Maybe when you're masturbating, you are thinking about like what you want for dinner. I don't know, but you are thinking about something. You know what i'm saying like so next time if someone were to ask this conversation ask this question a week you'd have an answer for them well when you're like i don't really think about anything that's not true your mind is not going blank when you're masturbating i'm certain of that there's a reason why you're masturbating right or are you really just doing it because you think you're supposed to well um so i started uh after leaving the church um so uh for a long time i didn't um and uh uh i i started doing it because I felt like I should. Not that I should, but that I wanted to explore this area of myself. So that's kind of why I started was to just explore my options and see what was going on. I think you should keep doing that, right? I mean, generally, that's my advice to like, then when I say you're a sexual

free agent, you really are. It sounds like so much of your life was tied up into the church that you were a part of. You've now left and you're really getting to know yourself all over again, especially your sexuality. Just keep an open mind to all the possibilities. But my gut tells me you're not asexual. You're just trying to figure out what it is you have an appetite for. Okay.

All right. Thanks. All right. Best of luck. Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. How's it going?

Hi, I'm Sarah. I'm 40 years old. Hi, Sarah. How can I help? Well, my husband had an affair. I'm sorry. I just found out about a month ago. We were having issues before, which down to the affair.

I didn't realize it was because of an affair, but basically he was being really distant since for months and months. And I called him out on it in January. And he kind of said that he thought maybe he wanted to separate, he wanted a divorce, but then he was really up and down for months. I eventually told him that I couldn't take the up and down anymore. And he had to get an apartment before April 1st. So he got an apartment March 15th, March 16th, COVID lockdown happened. So he never moved in and was home. We have two kids as well. So he was home that whole time. Most of that time he kept saying he wanted to work on things and he knows he's all in all of that. And then the end of May, beginning of June, when stuff started opening back up again,

he was up and down a lot again. And then basically I said at that point, no, you're going to have to go because I can't take the up and down anymore while you figure this out. And then he apparently tried to break it off with the mistress, which I didn't know about her at the time and she got mad and she sent me a message and told me all about it so he was gone immediately so you got her you got her point of view yeah I knew her actually though I knew her I've been to her house I've had drinks with her before you got her message did you you didn't know who she was though you just knew no i knew her i knew her like i've talked to like she was a co-worker of his so when you found out about the affair you knew who it was uh yeah oh yeah well we were facebook friends she messaged me on facebook that's how she told me yeah so so i knew her like we weren't best friends or anything but uh I definitely had met her many, many times.

And so what did she say? She said that they were having an affair since October and that they were in love and he was going to leave me for her. Because I think she was mad that he had broken and she sent me a bunch of messages between them and all of this and that. I do believe him that he tried to break up with her and everything based on. I mean, I believe that based on the fact that now she's mad and she wants revenge. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but yeah, it was now he's, he like immediately when i called him out on it burst into tears started saying he's so sorry he wants to make it work with me he knew it already that's why he broke off broke it off with her and basically i just don't like i don't know how you ever get over something like like it was eight months of lies and like he actually was ready to leave the marriage but now he's like bending over backwards trying to make everything right with me like down to like i wanted him to have a vasectomy and he's he's gonna he called to get a referral for that and like bending over backwards doing a ton of stuff buying me guests then like doing stuff for the kids doing stuff for me like it's anyway so what is your i guess what's your question i guess i have a few like do you think it's black and white i guess first off

do i think what's black is this a deal that that this is a deal breaker that's entirely there's no right or wrong you know there's no there's no um absolute yeah in fact it's it's whatever it's all about what you want right uh which i know it's sometimes hard to figure out my guess is you're like, yeah, you wish you could make it work. You got your family and your kids, but you don't know if you can ever really trust them again. Well, exactly. Is it better to just cut your losses now

than try to fix something that's broken and can't be mended? Yeah. And the problem is like, look, I thought that if this ever happened to me, I would go Tiger Woods wife crazy with the golf club and go nuts. But I was surprised at how sad I was instead of just angry. And, and obviously I still love him. We don't really know how we're going to handle situations. We can guess about how we'll handle crazy

and hard situations but we don't really know how we will until we experience i know but then is it true like the once a cheater always a cheater because he took it to the extreme and was okay with it i mean yes and no i mean i think it's when people talk about once a cheater always a cheater i feel like they're they're more talking about in kind of early 20s kind of dating situations not married that being said like clearly he is capable of lying in a very advanced level. Yeah. Once a cheater, always, it's one of the,

like, I think right now, I don't have an answer and neither do you. And that's what you're really struggling with is you have really no idea his sincerity. The truth is, he has no idea

about his sincerity. Right now, it sounds like he's operating at a very selfish level and very kind of immature level um he's only really been thinking about himself the past several months not his kids not his wife and not probably even his mistress like he is probably going through something where he feels unsatisfied about his life and this is how he's chosen to go about seeking to fill that void of whatever he's feeling. So everything he's doing right now is all

reactionary. And you could probably make a bunch of demands. And right now he will say yes to all of them because he is operating out of fear and he is operating off of feeling like he needs to fix something but to your end and it sounds like he's already demonstrated once he gets what he wants in that moment he might relapse so to speak right this whole idea like during covid then he kind of got wishy-washy again this is not the first time he's been willing to like do whatever only for him to get wishy-washy again so uh i don't think this can be have you guys talked about counseling we started counseling we've been twice now with that so i mean the first time is just telling your story really and yeah and that may be a process.

You're going to have to decide whether you're willing to put the time and work in to make this work, knowing that he was the one to fuck this all up. And I don't have an answer for you in terms of whether you guys can get through this. But my guess is it's probably going to be a process. You're going to have to decide, do I want want to invest a year year and a half of us getting through this and working on it only to find out i i don't love him anymore or this isn't going to work out because that's a possibility i think while you're going through this therapy and while you're going through this kind of reconciliation process there's no guarantee that like just because you decide you want to try to make it work doesn't mean it's going to make it work yeah and now oh sorry go

on no i mean that's that's you're in a pickle there right um i would ask yourself questions do you want to make why are you trying to make this work just because are you trying to make this work? Are you afraid to start over at 40? Or is it you just never imagined that you would be dating at this age with two kids? Are you making a lot of decisions out of fear rather than what's best for yourself going forward in your kids too? Yeah. So I think those are important questions to ask yourself because it does seem scary. And while you might not have ever imagined dating again, it's kind of like being cheated on.

It's never usually as scary as it seems. There's exciting things about it too. I can promise you that if you get divorced, after the hurt and after the sadness and out of the guilt or whatever, whatever the feelings that you're feeling, you're going to experience some excitement. You're going to meet someone that makes you excited. There are other people out there. And so whatever you decide, there's definitely a light at the end of the rainbow. So I think when you decide you're at this point right now you're in a decision right now the decision you have to make is am i willing to work on this

and why am i willing to work on this you know am i doing this out of fear or should i just cut my losses now there is no right or wrong answer, but I think you just need to be honest with yourself about your intentions. Yeah. I think another part too is like part of me wants to throw in the trash, like for my pride and everything. Right. I wouldn't make your decisions based off of pride either. You know,

pride is not going to get you anywhere. I know. I know, but yeah, it's hard, right? Because then you don't want to be a pushover or make it okay that it happened. True. You definitely don't want to do that. And that's what the therapy and going through that process is all going to be about, working

through that. And you might, again, six months from now, eight months from now, 16 months from now, come to a conclusion that you can't trust him, that he is not the person you first married, that you don't love him anymore, that maybe you don't respect him for what he did to you and your family. You might come to all those conclusions, but you're going to make that determination based off the facts that you figure out as you go through this process. There's definitely power in recognizing I can be cheated on. That's a kind of an empowering feeling to know that it's possible because then we can

acknowledge the possibility and be more in tune with the signs that it's going on. And then we can trust ourselves to acknowledge things that are going on that sometimes we like to pretend are not happening. Yeah. Yeah. so it's definitely not a little black and white to answer your question if you haven't figured out a lot of nuances and i think any decisions right but um just don't make your decisions based off of fear or pride you know and uh take some time uh if you decide to move on i promise you you will you will find happiness at some point another thing is like how how would you ever have sex again without thinking of her and that again that's kind of goes back to trust and i mean

you could harness it i don't know if you're into some kinky shit but um you have to let i think you just have to get it's that's that's down the road you know you have to figure out how if you can trust this guy again my guess is you if you can trust him then you will get over that but she's just someone and quite honestly make sure you cut her out because she sucks i mean it's not again i've said it wasn't her fight it wasn't her uh responsibility to protect your relationship your marriage that was his but she knew you the whole time and then she she selfishly decided to facebook message you to try to fuck his world up she sucks like she knew you were in this the whole time she had no problem

doing what she was doing and then so oh yeah i ran into her part like partway through this i didn't know they were having an affair he was with her the night before and she came up and hugged me and like she's a shitty human being who only cares about her own wellbeing. So like just cut her out. Yeah. She is a disgrace. Yes. And she gives,

she gets no points for reaching out to you and telling you the truth. She wasn't looking for the truth. She was looking for revenge. She sucks. Do whatever you can to void her out of your life and uh your husband should be on a very tight leash when it comes to trust and and honesty and and um i would have very little expectations of him right now don't set yourself up for disappointment he set the bar very low so that's convenient for you you can just be like i honestly i don't know if it's gonna work i don't think it's gonna work and quite frankly if it doesn't work i'm going to be fine so like we'll

right now i'm i'm kind of open i have the door slightly cracked open but that might change in any moment but just don't expect a lot from him. And that I think you'll feel empowered that way by like, just, you know, don't, don't fall for like these grand gestures that he might be willing to do. Let's all waste all that. It's all wasted energy in the short run. It's,

it's all fluff like this. This will only be salvaged by slow, sustainable communication and trust. And it's going to, that's going to take time. And you just have to decide whether you're willing to invest that time. Make healthy decisions and have your motives be healthy

and not vengeful and try to have them be productive and don't make decisions based off of fear or pride. Okay. All right? Yep. Let us know what happens it's gonna be okay i promise i promise i think you're you know it's a good start you just be in the right head space and when you have your bad days just try to get through it but um as long as you're not

afraid to change things up i think that's going to put yourself in the best possible case to make the right decision because whatever that decision is afraid but that's think that's going to put yourself in the best possible case to make the right decision. Because whatever that decision is. I'm a little afraid, but I'll get there. It's okay to say that, but just don't make decisions based off of fear. Okay. It's normal to be afraid, but ask yourself when you want to make a decision, is this the easiest way? Am I saying this because I'm just afraid of taking a risk?

way am i saying this because i'm just afraid of of taking a risk you know uh you deserve to be with someone who you trust and didn't hurt you or doesn't hurt you so he had a shot he fucked it up and it's you have all the power right now to decide what's best for your happiness going forward and you don't owe him owe him any of that right now so yes all right thank you thank you yeah I'm excited for you all right best of luck okay thank you all right take care bye-bye how's it going good I'm McKenna I'm 23 and I'm Jackson and I'm 25 all right my first couple I'm excited for you guys to come on and tell me what's going on and we'll see if this is I'm excited many more couples to come but uh how can I help guys so we've been together for over six years all right and we recently moved

to a new town in Missouri together. I'm originally from Iowa. He's originally from Missouri. But we moved here for him to go to medical school. So he just kind of started that. And I actually got a job here as well, working for the medical school that he's going to. But I've been completely working from home and pretty much all of his classes other than labs are online. So when we planned to move here, we just got a little one bedroom apartment thinking that we really wouldn't even be here much at all. And now we're here 24-7. And so one, it's been a struggle just to meet people.

You've met a few of your classmates and I've met very little people. I've only even met only one of my co-workers. So been a little hard to make friends and especially when he's busy studying all the time, it leaves me with like not a lot to do other than binge more Netflix. So my first question is kind of how to make friends in a city that you've never been before, before you moved here, when you know basically no one. And then also with us being stuck here all the time but kind of doing our own thing him being in class or studying all the time we're together all the time but not very much of it is quality time so how to make quality time more meaningful okay any thoughts from from you jackson or like any

frustrations? I don't know. I'm still trying to adapt. I'm only in my third week of medical school at the moment. So I'm just trying to get my feet under me for the most part. I haven't even had my first test or anything. Gotcha. She pretty much hit the nail on the head. Yeah.

My guess is it sounds like kind of to your point, like you guys moved there obviously for for jackson going to medical school which congratulations by the way that's pretty exciting that you're you're doing that um and my guess is mckenna uh like you said you probably had this all planned out in your head okay we'll move here and i'll do get a job and i'll slowly make some friends and then like you said COVID hit and it's been uh have you panicked a little bit in terms of like oh shit this is not what I expected um kind of um yeah I'd say a little bit especially because I had never been here at all before we moved the day we moved in was the first time I even visited the town and it is very rural and

it's the largest town within a 90-mile radius. And I'm used to, like, we both grew up in really small towns, but we were only, like, an hour, hour and a half drive to bigger cities. And obviously, I had all my friends and everything like that. So it was easier to do things. And here, especially with COVID, options are really limited. And with him being in medical school, we're supposed to be extra careful with going out and doing things so yeah it's very different than what I thought it was gonna be when we moved here especially not even like being able to go into the

office and meet my co-workers and like get a drink after work with them or anything like that so I mean really I think you guys just have to be patient as much as I probably maybe not the answer you want. But like Jackson said, it's been three weeks. And I can only assume he has a lot on his mind, a lot of stress, probably nervous, wants to do well, wants to fit in all these things. And he's probably got a lot more distractions than you have McKenna, because you know he's meeting his new classmates and there's this you know and so um the tough part is what you want don't want to do is stress out jackson so much because he's probably you know worried and correct me if i'm wrong jackson but like you probably care about her you know she made this move for you so there's a stress level of like hey you happy are you okay because like she made this move for you. So there's a stress level of like, hey, you happy? Are you okay? Because like you want this to work. You guys have been together for so long and you're following your dreams and you're appreciative of her, you know, helping you follow yours.

So you know what I'm saying? Like don't, try not to stress each other out, right? Like, you know, and that's just going to, as a result, you're going to have to just try to be patient. There's going to be a period that's just going to be tough. Like, there's nothing I can say to be like, we'll do X, Y, and Z, and this will make you happy. It is like we're dealing with a pandemic. So, like this idea, what I would normally say is like, join some curricular, extracurricular activities, or the recreational sports teams? Are there groups? None of this is really possible right now.

And so there's no good answer in that situation. I think the best thing you can do is just keep talking and communicating. Honestly, I'm assuming you have friends and family away from you. Yeah. I would not always vent to jackson especially right now i mean it's good that you he's probably there to talk to but you're going to stress some out if if he is the only person you're venting to i think you need to diversify your emotional support system right now i mentioned this on my uh asked nick Nick when someone was like breaking up with someone

who they knew it wasn't right for them, but like they didn't know who else to talk to because they were the only person they talked to in a relationship. So like, it's okay to feel what you're feeling, but like right now, let Jackson get settled in. You know, as long as Jackson, you're being attentive to her needs,

but like you're not feeling so stressed out that you can't win. So it's like, I want to focus on school, but she's not happy. And I feel guilty about that. You know what I'm saying? That's just a slippery slope. That's going to go nowhere fast. Yeah. And I think I could maybe find some other outlets for my stress too. Like my parents or friends or something like that. So, yeah, I think that's really important for both of you right now too, is like, you're, you're stuck with each other. You probably, you know, and it's good that you, you, oh babe, if you, I want you to be

able to talk to me when you're sad and that's a great thing. But once in a while, I think it might be good for you guys to just have somewhere to let it out. Because if you're constantly feeling stressed and you're constantly bringing in the household, like you're only going to just be bringing each other down. And that's not what you want to associate each other with, you know, so try to diversify your emotional support systems and like friends, family, like you said, Jackson, like if you are stressed out about school, like it's good that you can't tell him a kind of, but maybe tell, talk to your mom and dad about it or a friend.

And just, we always need people to vent to and let things out so i think if you do that that'll maybe help you guys when you do are connecting you having this quality time that you're seeking mckenna it's not about just venting your problems to each other and the things that you're sad about and the things you wish were different because of covid so then you plan on doing actual things, you know, taking a walk together, plan a date. I don't know what it is that you guys like to do as a couple, but like making that time and prioritize it for quality time, right? So that you're not always venting. Couples really get in a bad habit of being that way. It's like the people they always complain to,

the people they are, you know, we feel the most comfortable with the people we're dating. And that sometimes those are the people we take it out on the most you know because like they just want to they just want to like let go and just kind of be a dick sometimes and they don't know who else to be a dick to because like well you're not going to break up with me so i'll just be a dick to you they don't constantly think we don't consciously think that but we do it all the time so yeah does that make sense yeah um so so yeah um i think if you guys do that that'll go a long way um yeah yeah i think we're pretty good about that already i don't think we really bent to each other too much and luckily you don't have he doesn't have his full class load yet they start off with like five or something four and then at the end of

september they add on three more classes so it'll be in seven all at once and then next spring they're in nine all at once yeah so it'll only get worse but i guess what more can we do like when we are having couple time other than like watch netflix because i feel like that's all we do when we're actually spending time together is like make a dinner and watch Netflix maybe that's the thing is like you got it you know just expand your comfort zone yeah so it's just like oh we want you know it's like you probably like watching Netflix and chilling together I'm assuming for Jackson he probably appreciates that release it's like all I want to do babe is sit down and watch Netflix and relax. But it's just finding something else that maybe is different and relaxing. There is a part, McKenna, that it is like there is going to just be a tough period, an adjustment period.

Probably more for you than Jackson because Jackson has the benefit of being distracted with his other stresses. Take the Netflix outside. Yeah. Like switch it up. Take it for a picnic. Go make it romantic. Sit outside in a park. Like if you want to watch the Netflix and released

and go and do something like that, that'll change it up and make it a little bit more romantic for you guys. What are other things you guys enjoy? Man. A lot of stuff you can't do with. Yeah. I was going to say normally our summer is his parents have a condo down in the ozarks in missouri so normally our summer is like we go there we lived in colorado for like six months before we moved here so that was really fun but you know there's

most of our activities aren't as we adjust as a society you know people are coming up with new creative things i think there's like this drive-in movie theater you know, people are coming up with new creative things. I think there's like this drive-in movie theater in LA that people are starting to go to, which is just kind of different and fun. And it's still like watching, you know, old movies. But just that of like planning something and getting out of the house can be a benefit. Make a list, you know, what do you guys like to do? But there's a level of patience you're going to have to have, you know, unfortunately. And you can give yourself a break, you know, what do you guys like to do? But there's a level of patience you're going to have to have, you know, unfortunately, and, and you can give yourself a break, you know, it's not, you're going to have to adjust. It's going to take some time. Um, just don't burn

each other out. Like, that's my biggest advice to you guys, because it sounds like you have a really good thing going, but, um, you guys are probably used to things always probably being pretty easy going for you guys and with this new change there's gonna be some new stresses and don't beat yourself up about it and don't uh start like oh does this mean we're not supposed like supposed to be together because we're stressed out or these new things are going that's normal like you're gonna have to deal with this stuff like if assuming you guys work out and get married have kids it'll be different stresses and so take it easy on each other this is your first big test of like um introducing like change and stressing your relationship yeah so awesome just mix it up

you know yeah that's the biggest thing you thing. I'm a creature of habit. So sometimes I even stress myself up with doing this. I'm tired of doing the same shit over and over. And I'm the person who suggests the same shit over and over. To that end, there's probably something going on in your community of people. You're not the only ones feeling this way. Everyone's cooped up. Everyone's feeling this kind of stress and burden you guys have this new kind of unique situation so when you have some free time and kind of do some research and see if you guys can

mutually find something that you enjoy and then try to set some actual time aside where you can do something different than just sitting on the couch and watching the same shit over and over yeah you know yeah and if jackson like needs once i'm like babe i just i just wanna can i just check out like you know try not to get too frustrated because i can only imagine jackson the the excitement and the stress you're feeling about starting medical school. Yeah, it's exciting. You said it. It's stressful, too.

But I do kind of feel bad because when I get done around, like, you know, suppertime or whatever, it's like 7 o'clock and my brain's pretty much shot and I'm just like a zombie sometimes. And then we're in bed by 10. I got to wake up early the next day too so yeah yeah there might be like sometimes i think in relationships too you know you always want kind of this mutual like well i'll do this for you and you this for me and and that's great but you you can't keep score especially on a daily or weekly basis sometimes especially in long-term relationships there might be periods of like you you know, like McKenna, for the next, you know, couple months, certainly, and maybe the next few years,

you're being kind of the selfless person for the greater good of the relationship because Jackson's. But, you know, Jackson's being mindful of that. And when he can, he'll do his part, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't have to be like well today is my day for getting what i want and then jackson you have to make up for it it just might be you might unfortunately be the one and you are because you you moved and you're doing this and jackson it sounds like he's very appreciative and and recognize that but as much as you can um as long as you're okay with it and you accept the risks of the relationship and then hopefully when you know jackson will you know make it up for you make it up to you like it doesn't

always have to be on a daily basis of keeping score like sometimes the equality in the relationship can can happen over a greater period of time and not like every day where it's like it's my day you know um i think sometimes we we do that we make that mistake in relationships as well as as feeling like it needs to you know we we keep score too too often yeah even subconsciously so yeah i'm definitely that way a little bit. You are? Yeah. Yeah. Try not to do that. And again, you have the right to feel like you should get, you know, you should, you need to be happy too. And you have that right. But keeping score on a daily basis or a weekly basis, it's a, I mean, it's just not,

it's not sustainable. Like, you know, like you won't, it's, it's too exhausting in any relationship for both of you. So try to see the bigger picture. Like you made this choice,

you know, it sounds like he's aware of the, the sacrifices you've made, but he can't make it right all in one day, every day, you know so give it time and and find the moments where he can um make sure you're good and you know what i'm saying does that help yeah yeah just um take it easy on each other because i've i've been in relationships in different situations where you just you just stress each other out.

And it's like you understand each other. You want to be there for each other. But you don't bring out the best in one another. You're bringing out anxiety in each other. And try not to do that. Okay. Thank you. All right.

Well, thanks a lot, guys. I appreciate it. Jackson, best of luck with medical school. And McKenna, I think you're going to be okay. Just try to find other outlets, other people you can talk to. And I'm sure when Jackson can, he will do everything he can to make sure that you're doing well. But give him a chance to succeed. Okay. Thanks. All right. All right. Take care. Bye-bye.

Well, what a fun little episode. I don't know. What was our... So many different topics. What were our takeaways? Trust yourself. You know, big takeaway is being a sexual free agent. It's exciting stuff.

Yeah. Whether you're maybe going through a separation or you're just discovering yourself for the first time trying to spice it up with your yeah there's a boyfriend being open to you know having options like we like to get settled into our routines and then sometimes our routines get shaken up but and that makes us panic and and scared but man sometimes being a free agent is that was that your sexy dance? Yeah, my sexy dance? Is that the dance that gets it going? Yeah, I, you know.

Might want to do that in the mirror, double check. Well, I am, I am who I am. I love it. Well, on that note, we appreciate you guys listening. Don't forget, obviously, as I said on the top of the show we uh this this uh particular episodes of the ethnics uh mean a lot to me and i always appreciate you guys listening so your reviews on itunes and and your feedback in general is always appreciated and uh we always uh thank you for listening and sharing it with your friends. And it's as helpful to me

as it is hopefully to all of you listening. So just want to say thank you for being a part of this show. And if there is nothing else, we will see you next time.