The Viall Files - E160 All the Scenarios with Ali Manno (Fedotowsky)

Episode Date: August 4, 2020

Former Bachelorette Ali Manno (Fedotowsky) joins us on today’s episode of The Viall Files as we talk through her experience on The Bachelorette and what really happened when tattoos, songs, and girlfriends tried to derail her love story. Nick and Ali talk about their very different experiences on the show and how the show has evolved as the seasons have gone on through the years; breaking the 4th wall, showing things they would not have in the past, and what that might look like going forward. However, the first topic of conversation between these two leads are the rumors about what is going on with Claire as Nick received some information from someone inside The Bachelor bubble just as he was walking into the studio. Having been in that position themselves, these two have a lot of ideas on how the next season of The Bachelorette could play out. One thing they agree on? They will certainly be watching.  “This is my life.” Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: DIPSEA: dipseastories.com/viall  BETTER HELP: betterhelp.com/viallfiles NATURAL HABITS ESSENTIAL OILS: nhoils.com CODE: sunday Episode Socials:  @ViallFiles  @nickviall @alifedotowsky See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what is going on everybody happy i don't know if we're probably monday night monday tuesday whatever i drop it early might drop it early because i'll tell you what i feel i feel special uh we got we got i got some information about i got a text from inside the bachelor bubble i mean look at you go i'm a world-class reporter now you're gonna have to wait until i talk with alex i i read i read the text from inside the bachelor bubble with an update on on claire's season And then Allie is our guest, who was the featured bachelorette for the Goat episode, which was a lot of fun talking to Allie.

I've always really enjoyed talking to Allie. She's been a friend since Andy's season. It was a really interesting conversation hearing her perspective. Yeah, it was fun to hear you guys pop ideas back and forth. Because here we are, basically, just to prepare you, we take what we've learned about Claire's season, and then we try to figure out and put in the holes.

And Allie's got some interesting point of views. And I had some ideas. She shared some ideas. We went back and forth. Scenario city. Some scenarios. And then it was also really interesting to hear Allie's experiences, the bachelorette and how different it is.

Even working with the show, the producers, just kind of, I learned a lot from, from Allie and yeah, it's just fun to, fun to talk to Allie, but you know, we try to kind of take what we know and then insert it with what we think is going on with Clarice's, and so check that out. And as you guys may or may not have heard, we've talked about it,

make sure to check out my new little project, Nick V Talks Trash TV, which first four episodes are out now. It's a bunch of the women from my season recapping season 21 of The Bachelor. It's going to be 10 episodes. The first four are out now.

The fifth one is coming out in a couple weeks with Taylor, which is really good. And then the rest will be coming out September 1st with Vanessa and Rachel. The Jasmine one's so good talking about the volleyball date.

It's basically like an audio book. It's ad free, so you don't have to pay for ads but i did produce it myself created myself took some time to do that and so yeah think of it as like an audiobook if you spend it on a cup of coffee it's it's gonna you know it's worth it's it's more delicious than your cup of coffee that you spend else that much sign up um stick around if you want, you can cancel at any time if you're gonna love it. But if you just wanna come for the tell all, then do that. We're gonna come up with some more recaps of TV shows. I think you will really enjoy it. I hope you do.

So far people are loving it. Yeah, you've gotten some good feedback on it. It was a lot of fun with the women, getting some stories, some behind the scenes about, I learned a lot, I guess, and they learned a lot. fun with the women, getting some stories, some behind the scenes about, you know, I learned a lot, I guess, and they learned a lot. I watched the Angela one.

And it was, it was a lot of fun, even just with all the women. And Vanessa one's great. I think you'll all really enjoy that. It's always fun talking to Rachel. Did I see you guys on Instagram? You like followed each other

finally on Instagram. Re-followed each other. Re-followed each other. You know, we used to when we were dating. and then we didn't and uh now we are we talk about that so uh check it out uh the link it's on my patreon the link's in my bio on instagram just go to my instagram or twitter you'll you'll find it there and appreciate you guys supporting that project uh but you will you will you're gonna love it i can promise you that much. If there's nothing else, why don't you go and find out what's going on. A little update on Claire's situation.

The little bit I found out from the bubble. But it's from a direct source. I feel very special. I feel like I'm part of some investigative reporting. So that was fun. You can pat yourself on the back today, maybe. Gold star. Allie.

Hi. How's it going? Good. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for coming in. I like your setup. COVID-free studio.

Just want you to feel safe and comfortable in these times. I do. I do. I sanitize just like crazy. I got like three stations in my car oh yeah i have everywhere this studio is so sanitized we even have the blue lights that sanitize it oh we do yeah so that that goes on for half an hour before anybody even walks in here like a spaceship in here crazy wow anywho anywho uh ally um thanks for coming in. We have a lot to cover. Your season was fun to watch on the goat episode

because I've never seen it. Yeah. It's a long time ago. 10 years. 10 years ago. Which is, it's really not that long ago, but in bachelor years, like kind of like dog years, it feels, even watching it back,

like when were these times? It looks like it was filmed in like 1970. Like when my husband and I were watching it back, like, when were these times? It looks like it was filmed in, like, 1970. Like, when my husband and I were watching it, we were like, what kind of cameras did they have then? It's wild. Well, before we get into your season, I feel like we need to discuss Bachelor Nation is abuzz right now with all the rumors that are going on regarding Claire's season. And if it's even Claire's season anymore. Before I walked into the studio today, I received a text message from the Bachelor Bubble. Inside the Bachelor Bubble.

I feel like Walter Cronkite right now. Like breaking news. This is good stuff. That's exactly what I was thinking. I feel real Walter Cronkite right now, like breaking news. This is good stuff. That's exactly what I was thinking. I feel real special right now. Do they normally send you stuff like this or is this like special? No, no. No, I mean, this is from the highest of highest ups.

It's not Chris Harrison. You could technically argue that. This to Chris Harrison. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Well, I don't want to you know no that's a credit to chris harrison because he is you know it's chris yeah um but this person is you could argue it's it's art you could argue it's chris i mean if if chris has a boss it's chris's boss but no chris doesn't really have

a boss chris has outlived a lot of bosses but you get what i'm saying yeah potato potato potato potato uh right before i walked in um i got a text i can confirm that claire does not have access to her phone and is still in the bachelorette bubble that's it i said great to know about about to record anything else. To which they reply. Let me see how I can say this. She's doing great. And this season might just be the most dramatic season in Bachelorette history. Seriously. So he confirmed basically all the rumors are true.

Well, it sounds so Claire's not out of the bubble because that I woke up this morning with speculation that she's tweeting. She's out of the bubble. A lot of the rumors over the weekend were that she's been replaced by Tasha or that she's quit and she's been therefore replaced by Tasha. So then there was a lot of speculation. Did she quit? Did they just replace her? What's going on? So Claire still the Bachelorette, according to inside the bachelor.

No, I didn't read it that way at all. I, he didn't say she said, but she, he said she's still on the bachelorette bubble. Oh no, no.

She, here's what I think. I think they're going to have two bachelorettes this season. Oh, I don't like that. Okay. I think. No,

no. The way I, here's here. I, the way, way I read it is, like, she's doing great. She's still inside the Bachelorette bubble. If she's going to quit, they can't imprison her. You know what I'm saying? No, but let me tell you how I read it. So what I thought when he sent that, when you just read it, is that she's still quarantined in the Bachelorette bubble

because if she left, paparazzi would get her in two seconds. It would spoil the season. They're trying to keep it under control. So I think she met the love of her life, figured it out very quickly,

decided to end the show. The show let her end the show because let's face it, this is a multi-million dollar business here. This is not like there has to be a plan in place here.

So her and her guy are still there. And maybe they're going to record them a little bit. And they're dating. But then Tasia is going to go on and be the bachelorette. So I think she's still in the bubble because they're not letting her go home. Like having a little honeymoon, you think? Yeah.

Well, after the show's done, you know this, Nick. They send you and the happy couple off on like a little week, like five-day, week-long, at least on my season, honeymoon sort of where you stay, you don't have your phone back. You're still in the location where you got engaged and you have a week together before you go back to your separate lives. So they're just having a long one of those. I think. That's.

Unless you know more than you're letting on. No, I think. I see what you're saying. I think there's a lot of logic to that. And there's a good chance you're right to some degree. I don't think it will be that simple is my guess. Is that because if that's the case,

all they're doing is what they did with Caitlyn's season when they had two bachelorettes to start right and and brit left and that what what that some guy chased what was his name brady brody something yeah um chased her and then caitlin season aired and they would like check in with brit and and it was lame it was dumb like no one cared it was like uh-huh okay like can we stop getting updates we don't care she's not the bachelorette anymore right no you're right and i to me if that's what you're describing then people like all we'll care obviously about is how did this happen how did this go down uh the you know did claire melt down did she lock herself? I was excited that Claire was named the Bachelorette for a couple of reasons.

One, I thought it would be really interesting to age up the show, at least temporarily. Especially from a woman's point of view, because there's a lot of stereotypes about, you know, as women get older and even men, but like a woman in her late 30s, I thought was really cool because there's a lot of people out there in their 30s looking for love, you know? Yeah, for sure. Or 40s, I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying. 40s, right?

And Claire, I think Claire just turned 40, either way, I thought that was really cool. Yeah. And then also Claire, I've met a few times, she is, she leads with her emotions, is the nicest way to put it. Okay. And so hearing that she might've,

I will say it's knowing Claire and I don't know her that well, it's believable that she would just say, fuck it, I quit. But doesn't everybody? Did you at one point in your season? I know I did. There's a difference between feeling like quitting

and actually doing it because no one's actually done it because like you said said it is a business there is a like it's not like showing up as a cast member you know where they're like oh listen you can leave at any time and you really can you know it's like if you don't want to do it you leave they're not paying you anything you know but if you're the lead it's you're in charge of the show you're not in charge but you're certainly you're literally leading the show there's no season without you there's millions of dollars on the You're not in charge, but you're certainly, you're literally leading the show. There's no season without you. There's millions of dollars

on the line. There's people's jobs. There's a responsibility as accepting the role of the lead that's more than just looking for love. Yes, that's your goal, but there's, you're, you know, you're part of it as you know, right? Right. For me, I mean, I did try to quit the show. In fact, I did during the date that you guys saw last night with me and Casey where he was singing to me. My eyes are all – I'm like crying. My eyes are all watery because I had tried to quit the show for that. I told my producer, Cassie. I was like, I'm done.

I quit. I walked out of the museum. I was done. And she like had the cameras. She said, roll on this to like, you know, capture it for the show. And she ended up convincing me not to. So it was more of a who knows how much of a loaded threat that was, you know. Sure it for the show. And she ended up convincing me not to. So it was more of a, who knows how much of a loaded threat that was, you know?

Sure. I was young at the time and overly emotional. So I could see, but this is the thing. The reason ABC back then isn't, or the show rather, isn't doing all the things that they're doing now. They're changing now. They're showing Colton jump over the fence. They're showing Hannah look off in the distance,

searching for love, and then awkwardly be like, this is awkward. Like they didn't, I did, I did that stuff all the time. It was awkward, but they didn't show it back then. They only showed what they wanted to show rather than all the mess ups. So what I think is they're kind of realizing like this is a season, like, you know, the ratings aren't great for the greatest seasons of all, of all time, you know? So they're wanting their ratings to pop back up and maybe they're like, we need to change things up.

She wants to quit. Let's let her. Let's change it up. Let's let it happen again. But this is the question, Nick, and you would probably know this better than I would. How long had they been filming before these rumors sparked up?

A couple of weeks? I don't, I think like 12 days. 12 days is three weeks of the show. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, so that means- Put it this way. I showed up on Caitlin's season 12 to 13 days into filming. And when you watch it back, that's episode four.

It seems like it's four weeks in, right? But it's not. Yeah. So like the weeks in Bachelor World are like three to four days. Four, three. There's at least, sounds like there's at least, to your point, three episodes of Claire being the Bachelorette. Yeah, and that's what makes it different than Caitlinaitlin and brit because that was a one night thing she went off

nobody cared about that this is going to be different so that's why i think claire is still in the bachelorette bubble because they're still filming stuff with her her relationship maybe there's drama with the guys maybe another guy really still liked her but that is now dating tasia i think she'll be involved but i don't think yeah there's something going on yeah right and i think it sounds like i've heard stuff that tasha's off the the grid i'm just i'm just simply saying it seems like claire hasn't quit the show now her role in the show might have changed yeah but the show sounds like it's going to change and it sounds like there's certainly going to be aup, the most dramatic, as they say, you know. And I've always said what the producers are the best at

is adapting to change. I've heard from producers that when you were the Bachelor, at times were different. And yeah, they've, you know, I've only known them to be really good at adapting to change and just seeing where it goes. And then they'll figure it out later how they want to air it,

things like that. But they're really good at going with it. And creating the buzz. I remember we had a discussion. We were like, I wonder if people are going to even tune into Claire because there was so much buzz around Matt James. It's like, are people going to watch Claire? Now they will.

Now they will, for sure. They're so, yeah, that's one thing the producers are, that's probably why they let her make this decision because they realized they needed to generate buzz around her. And so people started focusing on her.

But the thing that's interesting too is, you know, you talked about her being in her, you know, upper 30s, potentially 40, I'm not sure either. Maybe the Bachelor producers now are realizing that a more mature woman or person knows what they want, right? So they're like, we're never going to have somebody this age again be the Bachelor or Bachelor Act. I think we're giving Claire too much credit in that scenario. Or 39-year-olds in general.

Again, I only say this because... How old are you, Nick? It doesn't matter. There is never a bad time to talk things over when you're struggling with your mental health. Can't insist on that enough. And my friends, our friends at BetterHelp are doing some great things.

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Special offer for ViallFile listeners to get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. Oh, yeah. It's dipsy time. That's right. Dipsy time. That's right. If you like listening to people talk about their romantic and sexual experiences to help get you in the mood, look no further to Dipsy. That's right. We talk a lot about our physical health and mental health, but what about our sexual health?

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And there's something for everyone, whoever and whatever you're into. And for listeners of the show, Dipsy is offering a 30-day free trial. I know what I'm doing tonight. That's a 30-day free trial when you go to dipscastories.com slash v-i-a-l-l dipscastories.com slash v-i-a-l-l but the point is is that uh like i said as you know like yes you tried to quit it they they fuck with you they push you to the edge um there are plenty of moments for i was

on my season i was like really like fuck this you know like totally that's you know they're making a show but you did like you are getting paid you know not like a world amount of money but like real money uh you there are opportunities like you are the you are the lead of the show so like to quit is is kind of a shitty thing to do like yeah the producers are going to adjust and they're going to capitalize on it and they'll make it work but you know if they weren't so good at it you are really fucking up the show and if you're asked right so for something i just think but i don't think you're thinking that when you're 25 years old. When I was 25 years old, I wasn't thinking about people's jobs. I guess what I'm saying, maybe here's a different way of saying it,

is every lead is first night. They're into, like, what, two people, three tops, and it's often one. Like, it didn't, like, by episode, by the first week, you know, it was like, I'm going if Vanessa quits, I don't know what the fuck's going to happen, man. You know? Yeah. Was it the same, similar for you?

Oh, I knew the top two first night. Right? That never changed. And so this idea that Claire knew what she wanted as a 39-year-old woman and then decided to quit because she's mature and knows what she wants, I don't think that's the reason. because she's mature and knows what she wants i don't think that's the reason claire is highly emotional and the type of person who like just fuck it just doesn't you know get what i'm saying like i don't think because she's more clear in what she wants i get what you're saying because you're right i think everyone does kind of know right away um but maybe they wanted to play that

angle it's not even the angle i think it's like for the bet like i know ben was super into lauren night one right but ben was like well i got asked to be the bachelor so i can't quit you know like you gotta have to and part of it too is well i'm super into this person but i also really don't know them so we'll see i mean if claire quit because she fell in love with a guy she still doesn't't know this guy. Even if she's been talking to him, you know, because that's the other angle is this is the first time that they've been releasing these men's and women's information early on to try to avoid some of the background scandals they've had to face. Because, you know, everyone thinks, oh, why don't they know all this stuff? And it's just like because you know everyone thinks why don't they know all this stuff it's just like you know right there so they kind of put it out there so that like if things come out they can get removed from the show so now they're doing this they did this all of a sudden quarantine happens everyone's this shit back home claire now sees all of her men now they were talking before

right so now people can dm each other so she's probably been dming this guy but even still she doesn't know this guy is what i'm saying this like you know like at three they could be broken up in three weeks you know we don't know and well what if it's because there was so many young guys like maybe she got there and she was like not only do i feel like a lot of these guys aren't here for me but they're young i don't even want to date these guys sure but like claire was the one after quarantine went back that was like i i'm into young men and i think it's fine and you know what i'm saying she still showed up knowing that these guys ages were younger and since quarantine they aged up they it sounds like they took it up took the opportunity with the gap to like-

Get some older guy cast for her. Yeah, cast for her because they quite frankly didn't really cast for her because they don't usually cast for leads in general. So let me try to break down what I think you're trying to say. Are you saying that you think that Claire was so emotional and difficult that they didn't want her to be the Bachelorette anymore? No, I think that's why they picked her to be the bachelorette. But I think she just proved just how uncontrollable she was in that. Yeah, Claire's the type of person, if she feels a certain way, you won't be able to reason with her. And no amount of, you agreed to be the bachelorette, we paid you,

is going to change her mind. I say good for her. If they're messing with her too much, you know, like, I don't know. I don't know what your experience was like on the show, but my experience was negative. I enjoyed being on The Bachelor

so much more than I enjoyed being The Bachelor. On The Bachelor, you drink cocktails. Who was your bachelor? Jake. Jake. Pavalka. I didn't watch it then.

The wings of love, Nick. The wings of love. Don't go back. There's no reason to revisit that. It's so good that they don't name it like that anymore. I know, right? I mean, I... But I just remember being so angry.

I fought with the producers all the time. I remember thinking to this... I mean, for a while until I fought with the producers all the time. I remember thinking to this, I mean, for a while until I started talking to other leads of the show, I felt like I was the most difficult bachelorette they ever had because I was so strong-willed. I was like, no, I'm not going to kiss that guy. I only kiss like five guys on my season. That's nothing compared to what most people do. It's different.

There's like, you might kiss five people in one night. Exactly. It's been more sexualized in general. For sure. So I was very, very strong-willed on my season. Just like didn't want that. I always, if they tried to manipulate me and do one thing, I'd do the other thing.

So I felt that I was that way. So I think they're used to dealing with strong personalities. When you were the bachelorette. It was all about love. And that's the truth. I knew there was opportunity that could come after. I'm not stupid. I left my job at Facebook.

I left all my shares at Facebook. I'm not dumb. Yeah, so like. I knew there was a chance of being shows afterwards. But when we were doing the show, the idea of creating a TV show, like creating drama or this will be a funny thing or, okay, fine, I'll give them this because I know I'm playing the long game. I was playing the short game, emotion game, my heart game. There was no game. It was my love story. I remember my fights with the producers were things like,

this is my life. That's what I would tell them. And to them, it wasn't my life. It was a TV show. No, don't get me wrong. This is my life. I can't tell you how many times I've said that to them when I was The Bachelor, and I'm sure every lead before you. But you understood the show aspect. I don't want to make it seem... I wasn't like, let's make it... I understood the show. It was my life.

I said, when they asked me to be The Bachelor, I was sick to my stomach because all I cared about... And I told them, I'll do this for free if I felt like you're going to cast people I really might want to get engaged to. Like, I really want this to work. For sure. You know, natural habits, essential oils.

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I use it all the time. I really do. I roll it on my temples, on the back of my neck. It's in my purse right now. I literally don't go anywhere without it. Code Sunday, 30% off, nhoyles.com. Don't get me wrong. If I did it today, I would still do it. I mean, I'm married, obviously, so I wouldn't do it today. But if I wasn't and I did it today, I would do it for love too. But I would do the same thing. I would play,

I would be a more team player because it's different now. It's like, I understand the show. I understand that. Like, I didn't even realize the show was that popular when I went on it. You know, it was just so, so different back then. But I would also be like thinking about all the opportunities after the show now more so than I did back then. That is interesting to hear your perspective too. And all we're really just is discussing more of a philosophical kind of belief system of the different producers that I had versus that like run the show now versus that you had. Reality TV has changed. I guess. I mean, over time they've had to adjust, right? You can't keep,

you know, when in 2010, they didn't even know they're going to have a show in 10 years later. You know, social media wasn't what it was it's hard to to that end not like you can't you got to stop pretending it's kind of like like professional wrestling when i was a kid they're like this is real you know people like and now they they they don't go out of the way so much to like make you think that everything that happens in professional wrestling isn't. Yeah, now they show you like the training camps and like how they do it all. Yeah, so it's kind of like that. Back to the Claire thing.

They're going to adjust, but I think it is kind of shitty. If she went and cheated and talked to this guy, got to know a guy, accepted the responsibility and role of the bachelorette, took a paycheck showed up and then said fuck it i like this guy and then threatened to quit or put them in a situation where they had to go well what the fuck do we do do we call up tasha we call up tia like you know do we call up hannah ann i don't know and like scramble and adjust and and fly guys that have already sent home and cost some money.

Yeah, I think that kind of is shitty on her. I'm not concerned about that costing them money, but they have plenty of money. But I see what you're saying. Fair enough. I mean, yes, you're right. But still, like, it's just a little. Yeah, I mean, I get it. But I think it's one of those things that she probably didn't quite realize.

You know, like she was into him. She was talking to him. She's like, I think this is probably going to be the guy I pick. And then, I mean, it's a hard thing before the show airs to quit because you're kind of into some guy on DMs. Like it's a big deal to quit then too. So she's probably just going through the motions, you know, and then she got there and she's like, oh, shit, no, this is the guy. I shouldn't be here.

Yeah, but don't you feel like everyone's like, wouldn't you have done that? Oh yeah, I would have sent everybody except for two people home the first night. Yeah, so would I have. So would it have been. So like, I don't, I've never talked to a lead before who wouldn't have been like, oh God,

it would be so much easier if I could just like hang out with this one person the whole time. Yeah, well, I mean, maybe it's the difference that she got that time to talk before enough that her week four felt more like her final rose ceremony to her and her emotions because she talked the weeks before. I totally get that. But your point is that she got hired for a job. She didn't see it through.

Yeah. Yeah, I get that. I do get that. I'm just saying, if it was this free-for-all for the people who, whether they like watching it or hate watching the show, there would be no show. This is fine now. This is going to be amazing to watch. I can't wait to see it. I'm glad in this, selfishly, here we are talking about something interesting and relevant and we're speculating. This is all great.

If this happens again on Matt james's season or ever like season like yeah they can't not they can't well the producers won't let it happen i mean you know how good they are like so you think they could have convinced her to stay yes of course but also it's an unprecedented time though like think about it like you like they're not just in a bachelor bubble they're like in a bubble like they're not just in a Bachelor bubble. They're, like, in a bubble. Like, they're in a COVID, straight up, extra tense bubble. Yeah. They're not just in the regular Bachelor world.

Well, I think wherever you go, they're good at keeping you in the bubble. I mean, you're right. Maybe you've got a good point. Nothing happens on the show. I shouldn't say nothing. Yes, the lead of the show sort of steers the boat but the producers like decide whether or not you can keep going that direction they can pull that steering wheel right back over and say you're not going that way so in my mind if they wanted her to

stay she would have stayed there's legal reasons they could threaten lawsuits i mean there's so many things and then maybe maybe she is i i get what you're saying so strong-willed that they did try pulling those cards and she wouldn't still wouldn't budge and then they had to i could picture claire doing that there's definitely conversations going so i get what you're saying they might have been like you know what if she wants to quit let's let her or like not quit but because here'd be interesting because she doesn't know this guy whoever this guy is if there is a guy i mean i if i'm if i'm them let's test this relationship so what do you mean i don't know what i mean but like if they're locked in the bubble and they have to stay

i i do think it's boring tv to just you know as you say like film them having their honeymoon time i agree and then while taisha's dating the rest of the guys i don't every time they're going to cut to care claire i'm going to want them to cut back to taisha trying to figure it out like i don't we'll follow you on instagram claire you know so they have to do something you know there has to be stakes there has to be a chance to for this relationship not to work out there uh it would be great if claire was like fuck i don't know you're not that great you know because also if you're this guy, whoever this guy is, and Claire, you're... But I don't think they're maybe going to check in with Claire.

Maybe Claire decides that's what she did and it's done and they just move on to another season. But Claire's still there because they can't risk Claire leaving and getting paparazzi'd and doing all these things that will put the show at risk. She might have signed a release that basically says you can't leave the premises for three risk. She might have signed a release that basically says you can't leave the premises for three months. She might have signed something. How does that work versus like? Or maybe she's so happy right now that she doesn't care. She's like, I get to be here, get room service and just resort with this guy I like. This is like paradise. Yeah, I can make out with him because I know he's been tested. Sounds awesome to me. Like what is she going to do? Just go in a little apartment at home? I don't know where she lives, but like, and be there with

him and have to stay home. Like, I don't know. I mean, for the same reasons. Also think about it. If they let her quit, she's probably loving them for letting her do that, right? Leave with this guy she really likes. So after the show, you very well could have, you know, gone and done whatever you didn't, but you didn't. i don't know for me at least i always thought the producers were like the police like i like i always felt like i'm not allowed to do stuff like i felt like they had control over me in a weird way yeah no i get it and i've heard a lot that before and you know it's definitely different but they still have that influence and i guess in my brain i'm just thinking i knew what I saw. Like by the time I was a bachelor,

I was like, okay, I'm huge response. You had so many experiences. You understood it more. Probably. If I thought I assumed, I hoped that I would meet someone and,

and know pretty quickly. Yeah. And then I assumed that I might have to go on dates with people. I wasn't that into. And then you got to go travel and do cool stuff. I mean, that's also, she doesn't. So she's not like, Hey, if I kept kept doing the show i'd get to go to like europe and bali

and all these amazing places i'm stuck on this ranch so if you're claire's this mystery guy this guy um don't you kind of have to go along with it because here he because he's like clueless, right? As we all are when we first go on, we have a lot of what we think it might be that you show up, you're like, what the fuck is going on, right? And then you're like thinking, I've been talking to this girl, I got this, I'm gonna be her final guy,

we're gonna be the happy couple. And then Claire behind the scenes with producers we assume was like i i'm done i found my guy i don't want to keep doing this she goes to this guy he's like i want to be with you doesn't he kind of have to say yes i guess what i'm saying like well if he said no then he's the bat you know what i'm saying like it's well, if he said no, then he's the bat, you know what I'm saying? Like it's- No, I get that. That's interesting. He has like, how do we really know?

Maybe he really loves Claire, but he also like has to be like, oh, I love you too. And yes, and he has, he might be thinking this is gonna be great. He doesn't know they are like, well, cause we're gonna bring in another producer. We're gonna bring some bad guys. And you're quite honestly, now're going to be a b storyline to the a storyline

that's going to be taisha and he has no clue about this right he has no idea so like how would that impact you know what i'm saying like i think you're too naive and and not in a naive oh he has no idea he's too bright-eyed and bushy-tailed right now. Like you said, you don't know what you're getting into. I don't think he's thinking about being a beeline storyline. No, no, that's my point.

Fast forward six, seven months, it's airs and... He doesn't have the opportunity to be on TV? He's not getting out of this experience what he thought he was going to. Well, that depends

what he came into the experience for. Maybe he's getting exactly what he wanted and that's Claire. Yeah, you don't know came into the experience for. Maybe he's getting exactly what he wanted and that's Claire. Yeah, you don't know. This is the thing. When you first started talking, I thought my mind went to, if she's like, I love you, this is it.

And he's like, well, wait, I still need time. Like, I like you and I dig you, but like, I'm not ready to be married to you or get engaged to you. Like, I want to go through this process, you know? So that's an interesting thing to think about. Maybe her mind was made up, but with his, or did he propose and it's done?

I doubt he proposed. I guess I'm just saying he is, like you said, this naive kind of guy who knows nothing about this world. Claire goes rogue. He doesn't know if this is normal, if it's not normal. And it's just like, it's like when Colton, like we didn't know if this is normal if it's not normal and it's just like it's like when colton like we didn't know what colton it felt like we didn't know cold cassie's feelings when colton's like i sent anyone home i want to be with you it's just like like yes the pressure you know

there's a like i don't know there's a pressure you feel i mean in that world and i guess i'm just wondering i'm wondering i have no idea if if if his decision to like work it out with claire is real because it's interesting in that world as you know too but even if it went the whole way he would feel pressured i felt pressured to get engaged at the end i get it but there you know what i'm saying like i? How far did you go on Jake's season? Top four and then I sent myself home. Okay. And you sent yourself home. Like I said, I had real feelings, very real feelings for Andy and Caitlin.

But so much of that world derives those feelings. This idea that you have to fight for this relationship, that they're making out with other guys and you're just the competitive nature in you. Totally. This guy is never, he didn't have to do any of that for better or worse. I don't know.

I'm just simply saying it's such a different experience. He's not gonna have to feel like, you know, Vanessa and I, Vanessa had to feel like she really had to go through the ringer because we had strong feelings early on to survive that just onslaught, like that world, which can damage a relationship a little bit, but it makes you feel like you fought for something. See, I see it the totally opposite. I see it as you almost trick yourself into thinking this is

the relationship you're supposed to have and that you really are so into this person. And then you go into the real world and you're like, wait a i wasn't really into them at all so i think if they're able to develop something off camera that gives them a better chance than anybody that's why i think bachelor in paradise works so much better yeah i don't know i'm just throwing out scenarios here i like it i like we need to we need to go through all the possibilities i really don't know i know i i i'm It's fascinating. I'm glad Claire has given us something to chat about. But so Tayshia might be the new, I mean, I don't, just the way.

She is for sure. There's no question. The way you describe it, it just seems like, okay, it's just going to be such a weird season. Because even if it's three weeks of Claire, she quits, brings in Tayshia. I just want to see Tayshia then. Like maybe they'll condense the three weeks of filming and they won't air three. Maybe they'll put it all in the first episode.

And at the end we see Tayshia's our new. So it's just literally one episode of those three weeks condensed. Okay. So like greatest seasons that they did put a whole season in a three hour. Yeah. So I think they'll do that. And then I don't think we'll have like the check-ins all season long. Because that would be boring, right?

It'd be boring. So I think that Tayshia is just our new bachelorette. And that's what it's going to be. But this taxing, granted, this is something inside the show. Has Tayshia been added to the group tax? The bachelorette group tax? Yeah. Well, not yet because.

No one knows. We don't know. Nobody can get a hold of her. But if. Listen. The source who texts me that obviously wants people to watch and wants people to think it's dramatic and I get all that. But like you said, they are going to want to do something with this.

And they've learned from Caitlin's season that just like filming them is not that dramatic it's it's a short it's a one episode win you know but it's not it's not the build-up the anticipation the you know like and it also happens early on in that theory it's not the same as a colton fence jump or an re breakup they have to wait the whole season and you know they tease it every episode that that's not the case here so i just think it's gonna i don't know what they'll do but it's i think it's gonna be more than just simply let taisha take over and let claire and this guy honeymoon yeah we'll see i don't i have no idea you're right i don't know i i guess i am hoping because i'll be really that will be boring.

Yeah. I'll be like, okay, well. Well, maybe they'll actually know that I think about it more. I don't think they do it in one episode. Maybe they would tease it over two or something because then you're at least getting people hooked into meeting the other guys because this relationship Claire has with whoever she picks, if she did, in fact, pick somebody early, is one storyline, but there's probably drama with all the other guys. And once you get hooked into being invested

in those guys, that's it. Then you're going to keep watching. So I think the Bachelor producers right now, I think it's actually a smart thing to let her quit and plan it this way. Because before they let her quit, I'm putting up quotes here, let her quit. They had a long meeting, a long conversation, like you said, plotted out all the possible scenarios. And they sat back and said, this is gold. This people, you know, we're worried about this season. We're not traveling. You know, Claire is not a most recent person. You know, she's like Juan Pablo, who they kind of picked out of obscurity.

You know what I mean? Like, so I feel like they sat back and said, this is gold. We're going to let this happen because we're going to hook people in. We're going to get them watching. We're going to have them invested in the guys. And then the guys, or some of the guys at least,

are going to stay the same, so they'll keep watching. The Bachelor producers are some of the most intelligent people on the planet. They know what they're doing. Yeah, they know how to adapt. That much. I should say intelligent people.

They're the best people at their jobs. They know what they're doing. like that much they're the best people at their jobs they know what they're doing do you think they released the guys like while they already started filming knowing this was coming up and then they released those 42 guys or do you think they really released them before they've well they've been releasing them the past few seasons way early realizing because they've like with they got themselves in some trouble by casting guys with yeah questionable backgrounds that they didn't catch that would be so smart if they did it the reverse way like they saw this coming what was happening with claire and then they released the guys so that people

would get into it they're smart but i always say sometimes they get too much credit they're great at adapting they're they see two or three moves ahead they don don't see 12, right? Right. They don't. Colton jumped the fence. We weren't great. But I still think, you don't have to see 12 steps ahead to see it. I think you see,

okay, she's super into this guy. She's emotional. She wants to leave. She's threatening to quit already. We need to get people interested in the show. And they sat in a meeting. People threw out ideas. I mean, look at us.

We're sitting here for, what, 40 minutes talking? And we're like, this scenario, this. They did the same thing. Oh, totally. But do you think they egged her on to quit? Probably not. I don't think they're smart enough to have thought of it before. I think that's giving them too much credit.

I feel like, again, I like Claire. I was thrilled she was a bachelorette. And for the reason where Claireire does what claire wants to do for all that like the you said you were the most one of the most difficult leads as much as i worked with them i argued with them a lot and fought with them and i took it very personally the experience well one thing i heard from other bachelorettes they're all like i thought i was the most difficult like i don't feel that way anymore because now that i've talked to the girls like everyone goes through this. Yeah, everyone's just like, fuck you guys, you know?

Because everyone, and that's why I always defend the leads, show or not, working with producers or not, it is a very personal experience that like, it's like, this is my life. I'm trying to meet someone. I hope it works, you know? And I just, like I said,ire i can picture claire just being like

fuck this and i'm out and i don't care like and i guess i i agree like if the producers really want to convince her they could really fight with her and i would and i think you make a good point where they probably just took a time out and tried to figure out okay what do we do here and then and then prior to instead of fighting with her said you know what you want to do this fine we'll we'll make a few phone calls um and i think too she is you know even if she's an emotional person let's face it every lead is in some way you know that's why their cast is the lead they're willing to talk about their feelings and they're highly emotionally either intelligent or off the rails either one um so but she's a level-headed person you know like if they had said to her people's jobs are at stake here we did all

like i think she would sit back and say okay i can i can go through this like i get it you really don't think like with that kind of i what happened with you and claire why are you so i've only met her i've only met her a few times i've so what have you heard i have had friends who were on paradise with her and it's just like if anyone would quit out of nowhere it would be cla Yeah. So maybe she tried to like quit paradise and stuff. I mean, she just, she, she, and like, she's very earnest about like, and she's very sincere. This whole, like, I'm here for love. I believe that.

She said, this is my life. This is like, yes, no, yes, 100%. And, and Claire really didn't care about the money or, you know what I'm saying? Like in a way that's like as sincere as anyone, but to the point of like, yes, 100%. And Claire really didn't care about the money. You know what I'm saying? Like in a way that's like as sincere as anyone, but to the point of like, well, come on, Claire. But they had to know that about her. Yes, they do.

Because of Bachelor in Paradise. They knew. And look, they know how to handle that. It's not like they don't know how to handle someone wanting to quit. They deal with it every season, I'm sure. They knew. The people who casted Claire knew Claire.

They worked with her they felt like into that and maybe they're just like we don't really know where this goes she could quit like yeah um and i've heard i've heard crazy stories i don't know how much were true like i know there was a conversation about replacing other bachelors mid-season uh never happened you know and how much that actually went down but like to that end they not there are no rules nothing's off the table it's reality tv and yeah we'll have to wait and see we're all gonna tune in now right yeah i mean it was yeah yeah because i yeah and i don't care i want to know how it goes down. Yeah. Same.

I want to see that. And then you'll get hooked and then they'll have you for the whole season. That's what they're hoping for everybody who watches. Hopefully. But they do have to deliver that to that end. Like, if it peaks episode three. Well, at this point, with all the drama going on, they don't really know. I mean, they can't predict what's going to happen with tajan the guys but this is the thing even if there isn't any drama on a season

they'll create it i know that for a fact because they did it on my season unless they know how to tease it like chris is so good at teasing everything to make it seem like such a big deal when it's like nick had a letter once yeah that's i mean the these goat episodes are wild we're like every episode like so-and-so has a dark secret ali had a dark secret oh i know i know she saw she saw him once i know i know oh there i mean well it's funny one thing they didn't air like when i did my interview with chris harrison that they cut and obviously they have to cut it because you know you talk for a while and then they air what they're going to air. But they didn't air my advice for Claire.

And my advice for Claire was figure out who you like the first night, like figure out who you're really into and then ignore them for the first two weeks. So you actually have a chance to meet other people because you hone in on somebody the first night and they didn't air that. So maybe that's because he's like, oh, she didn't take your advice. They didn't air that so maybe that's because he's like uh she didn't take your advice i'm guessing they did the opposite they didn't air that because wasn't that interesting no because you're kind of that that's and it's weird because like we talk about it on this podcast right and they may or may not like that we do but they on an ab show abc like you know sanctioned show you're you're kind of saying here's how you game the system you know where you know they still want you to believe that night one the leads is like oh there's so many amazing people and i love them all right i don't know what to do and every one-on-one date you go, you're just like, oh, I mean, I got a new front runner, you know, like whatever.

Sure. Well, that's the thing. Like sometimes, you know, I was just talking to Lauren Zima early before I came here and she said something about isn't it obvious that, you know, I can't remember what she was talking about. But I was like things on the show that they get people to believe that are so obvious. If you sit back and think about, for instance, meeting 25 guys or 25 girls and being equally interested in all of them. Like that is so just unbelievable. But for some reason, everybody believes that every season when they watch. See Bachelor Nation still thinks it's inappropriate to have like relations outside of the fantasy suite. Yeah.

In a sense that like. Oh, like having sex if you're not. Oh yeah, whatever, you know, like things go a certain way, you know? Yeah. You're not allowed to think about it even until that point. Yeah, or yes. Like it's okay when it happens in the fantasy suite,

but if it happens before it's not okay or like maddie can't say to peter like i'm not super into you having sex with other people that drives me and that's your nation's like you know what you signed up for i'm like dude she she likes this guy and she doesn't want him to have sex and you know like yes bachelor nation watches it and it's just like they like their rules they like peter season they like their rules bachelor nation likes their rules of how they watch the show and and uh you know i guess i get it is your season airing yeah the 31st oh so yours is i was wondering if yours was coming yeah when i was watching the goat episode back watching uh the the guy with the tattoo casey what was going on

in your head like it looked like you were just did you feel guilt and by guilt were you like why did you get this fucking tattoo from me like i remember like sometimes with the women it would be like just don't do anything permanent and and this for the sake of your relationship with me because I don't like you. It was so early on. No, I'm with you. You don't want to lead people on. I'm with you. No, I mean, he went home pretty early on.

I mean, it was week three. It was New York. And then week four was Iceland when I actually sent him home. You went to some cool-ass destinations, by the way. Yeah. We did. And I didn't appreciate it at all at the time. One, because I was young.

And two, I was just exhausted the entire time. But I remember just thinking, like, I've got to get him home. Like, I've got to send him home, especially after I saw the tattoo. Like, this is what is going to be next. Like, is he going to get, like, a tattoo on his face? And the songs every time he saw you. I mean, I just didn't want to laugh. And the funny thing about that tattoo, they showed last night like it was you know it's the heart

with the shield protecting it and then the rose but what they didn't talk about is how the the shield has uh 12 studs on it which represents the 12 studs that i was dating i can't i can't i'm not even kidding that That was on his tattoo. One of the guys told me that after. Like studs on the shield or something? Little, like, yeah, studs on the shield. So he was totally embracing the experience. And that's why I didn't feel as bad.

Because I'm like, okay, if you're getting a tattoo with all the other guys I'm dating, like something representing them, like that tattoo is for the experience. Yeah, it's about the experience. Not me. You're right, you're right. It's an experience. He does not seem to regret it? No.

He loves it. He added to it. Yeah. He added to it and put the anniversary date of his wedding. I used to work with, what's his name's ex-girlfriend, the guy who sent himself home. Frank? Yeah, at Salesforce. Oh my gosh really and i'll tell you what when i got casted on the bachelor she wouldn't shut up about like i was on the bachelorette

like i was like i was the girl who showed up random oh so she was like she was bragging about being the nicole yeah oh nicole yeah that's her name yeah and oh that's so funny his new wife is like this he's got a type now i have a type so i'm not one to talk but it was like did he get back together with nicole oh that's his new wife oh really they look that much they don't just both have brown hair they look trust me i guarantee you some of his friends have been like all right cool you have a type it's like the spitting image oh that's so funny it's funny when i saw his wife on the episode i thought she was super cute very cute but i remember i but i think i only saw like this i can't remember how much they showed of nicole but i remember like it was like her peeking through a door i didn't know you

were the bachelorette she was i didn't know who you were then yeah yeah first time i met you was the day after your season on a well andy's season and it was like it was the day after your season on a well Andy season and it was like it was the day after you know I was like hey guys what's up and like you know the world was 50 50 on that you were very like I was on your side I really like I really appreciated like you were you made me feel better and good and you were very nice to me and um I didn't know I didn't know who you were for all I know you were just a reporter for e-news I didn't know you were a bachelorette i was like oh cool and uh you were you were very gracious and nice um so i've always said i mean you've probably talked about this so many times throughout your life and on this podcast but my very thing from andy season is i was always like

why isn't it okay that he said you slept with me that was hurtful you know like if it was the tables were flipped and the gender roles were flipped you know it'd be fine like so i was i was totally on your side from not not that i was against andy i love andy but i was sure with you but i just you were just very nice and well thank you uh good i'm glad i wasn't mean to you oh yeah no i was like i mean you're i was like immediately a big fan of yours just because um you were just cool to me so i'll always remember the first time i met you just because of such an intense time in your life time in my life but yeah i didn't know and then i just i'll never forget uh this nicole girl just would just constantly come up to me

especially after the show she like after i got done filming and i go and went back to work she's like oh my god wasn't that crazy? Like, as if like. Oh, that like makes me a little bit angry. Like that she was like so happy about that when I was like so mad at her at the time. I mean, obviously years have passed. She was like, oh God, it was just like, we just did this for like, you know,

it was like, oh my God, you know? Yeah, she wouldn't shut up about it. But that's so random, like two people in the same company. How often does that probably happen? But she was like, she loved it. wouldn't shut up about it but that's so random like two people in the same company like how often does that probably happen uh but she was like the she loved it she loved talking about it boy did she did she ever oh my god i didn't even like i kind of put it all together as i'm watching this goat season back i was like oh that's so funny you didn't really realize it until now that you were the bachelorette that season that yeah the season she was yeah it was bizarre watching with my husband

last night he was so excited to watch like he you know mostly because he thought it'd be funny right to like we have a solid marriage he's not gonna watch me kissing a guy 10 years ago and get jealous it's just silly um but one thing i found like really sweet is that at one point you know one when i watch the show any season i get i cry like, I cry when there's proposals. I'm a girl. I'm emotional. Whatever. You know, like, ah. They get me sometimes. Yeah, right.

They're good at their jobs. Again, the editor is pulling at your heartstrings. And also, these are real moments for real people, you know? Again, they're not actors. Like, when I, you know. But even if they were actors, I cry at movies. You know what I mean? Like, you cry. I was watching, you know, when I was watching the, my season re-air,

I started cheering up watching Frank leave me. Not only because it was my past, but also because it's a good show and it's emotional. When you hit the sand, it was sad. When I watched Caitlin

break up with me again, I was like. So sad. Aw. Yeah. Totally. It's like, cause I,

it brought me back to that moment. I remember how I, I'll never forget that night. You know, I'll never forget how I felt, you know? And my husband was so sweet though. He looked at me and he was like, did you know like that he was going to leave you? And I was like, no, I had no idea. I like woke up so excited to like see my future husband.

That's how I felt that day. And he was like, that makes me like, he like grabbed my hand. He was like, that makes me so sad for you. Like, it was so sweet. You know, he was was right there with me. Anyway, I got a good guy. I enjoy your guy. He's a good guy.

Anything else before we wrap things up and let you go? I don't think so. Anything you're working on you want to promote, put it out there? I mean, my website, alimano.com, if anybody wants to check it out. Mano's my merry name, M-A-N-O. Yeah, I just blog about the show i'll blog about i'll post a bunch of photos from like back in the day photos that are like super grainy and nobody wants to see um yeah so check that out if anybody wants to you were gonna say something i was gonna say like we didn't like you basically were the first season

where somebody got caught with a girlfriend too Who people Yeah like Justin Justin and Frank Both had girlfriends Frank I also feel like Yeah you make a good point There were two girlfriends Frank kind of

Got away with it The other guy got He made it seem like Oh I just have feelings For my ex-girlfriend Yeah I'm like Hmm

Your ex Yeah Well that's another reason Where I say to people Don't believe that the lead Is equally into all these people from my ex-girlfriend. I'm like, hmm, your ex. Yeah. Well, that's another reason where I say to people, don't believe that the lead is equally into all these people because you saw how I reacted

to finding out Justin had a girlfriend. I was like, get out of here. When I found out Frank had a girlfriend, I was a mess, you know?

So it's like so obvious the different way you feel about people. But yeah, I remember like being angry on my season. I felt like i got cheated from the experience because i honestly night one felt like there was not even i felt like maybe there

was four guys that were actually casted for me you know what i mean i felt all the rest was congratulations no no not that i liked i only liked one really two after my first day it became two but four that like they thought maybe i would like like chris lampton i was never ever into him like not even at all but i was like okay i could see maybe they would he was a runner-up yeah yeah but only i and he would say the same thing we were only friends like they told me pretty early on that they were wanting to consider him for the bachelor so i kept him on for that reason so i did i guess that is one thing where i kind of like played the game with them as i was like okay fine like i like chris he's cool he's funny but like i didn't care i didn't not romantically at all um so in fact i've actually been told by i mean who knows alon one of the producers he's not there

anymore but that like i was from all the seasons i really did not give other relationships a chance like i was like very very honed in on my people that's why i didn't kiss a lot of people that's why i didn't you know like i just not even more so that i didn't know i wasn't going to choose them like i was like physically like i cannot kiss that person and i'm not trying to be an asshole i'm not trying to be mean to these guys but like there could be a totally you know handsome guy in the other room and i don't want to kiss him i mean yes i'm married but you know what i mean like it's just there i I feel like, yeah. I mean, do you feel, I always felt like as the bachelor, it's harder to do

because you look like more of a jerk. I don't think, I mean, yes, I think more of a jerk for sure. But I think if you do it in the right way, like people will get it. But then again, people didn't get the thing with you and Andy. So who knows?

That's for the life of me. Well, it was interesting talking to Trista a few weeks ago where it was like the absence. It wasn't even that long ago. And she was essentially slut shame before she was even the bachelorette being like, are you prepared to make out with all these men and be, you know,

seen as et cetera, et cetera. So like, you know, you had a whole nother kind of thought process to me even where it's, it's, it's kind of fascinating how the audience watches it and whether if, if the bachelor's making out with too many people,

it seems it's, it's different now in a more positive way, you know, but there's still a, so many gender biases, so many, so many. Yeah.

It's a, it's wild. Well, this has been fun. Yeah. Good catching up with you. I'm glad to see you guys are doing well. You're giving me some interesting things to think about as well,

Bachelor Nation. So many questions. I thought I had a lot of answers coming into this episode. But we do know that Claire won't, it seems safe to say that Claire won't be walking the streets of wherever she lives anytime soon. No, she will be in that bubble until the be in that she will be a part of the show on some level i don't think that's the case you don't no i oh you mean a part of the show yes a

part of the show maybe at the beginning but i don't think that they're going to be like checking in with her i think she's there right now because they have to keep her there she's not there like filming right now that's just my opinion. Okay. We'll see. I feel like maybe we accomplished very little. I'll come back. And we'll talk about it and see who was right when it actually airs.

That would be so fun. Yeah, fun to break it down. It also is fun talking to you just how different the show is run these days. And I'm not in like the Bachelor world. Like you're friends with everybody because of Paradise, which is awesome. I love how everybody's friends now. I'm not in the world anymore. So I'm not talking about it.

So for me to hear your take on it, it's interesting because you guys have so many in, like I feel like you've got to know so much based on all the inside connections you have. Sure. But I also think again, the philosophies of the show

is a lot different too. And part of that is and then adjusting with the time, social media, it's to that end, like we use the wrestling example, if they were just gonna keep singing the same tune and acting as if it would, people would be like, okay. Showing in the cameras even,

they didn't show the cameras in my season. The cameras stayed out of the shot. Yeah, breaking the fourth wall once in a while like i just feel it's it would it would lose its kind of charm for sure and but it's still fascinating to hear you talk about how rigid it was back in the day and just um how like to find that to know that you were in the dark an hour before even the dates is is wild um these recaps have really shown the difference between trista to you from you to him and i'm sure from you to like peter would be like completely different yeah i mean that's why when i when i kind of joked about like chris harrison's boss like chris has been here since the beginning right and think of how many like

different producers who have been running the show and like who are quote-unquote technically his bot because the producers kind of decide what's going on and chris we're having you do this etc etc and they come and go you know like every other and a lot of other companies and their philosophies change and they change with the times and it's the one thing that also has not changed along with chris harrison unless i'm mistaken is the executive producer martin not changed along with chris harrison unless i'm mistaken is the executive producer martin martin's been there oh from the beginning i believe so he's the one who's ultimately making the decisions yeah but like he's there less and less less and less oh he was very present he's he's yeah he's him and i i was on the impression how involved was mike on your season mike who oh my place um he would come

like for the first rose ceremony and maybe like one date because i i heard that especially in the beginning he was pretty involved then oh really and he's almost non-existent on a day-to-day basis i feel like martin's the same way less. I mean, he's still like running the company. Yeah. But yeah, it's kind of fascinating to hear all that because it is definitely different. And there's 15 years of which I was never like a part of. And you probably know the most

because you've been on like 20 seasons. Been on four. Which at this point is not even, I don't think number one. Blair's been on five and then that guy like chris something's been on a gazillion and i couldn't if i if i he walked into the room right now i probably wouldn't recognize him like i don't know what sorry to him but he's been on so many but i don't find colton was on three in like four months oh ch, he was like on the recent like Paradise or something, right? Or Chesky or something.

Chris Bukowski. Yeah. Nice guy. Allie, thanks so much. Thank you. It's been a ton of fun. Who do we got to tomorrow? Oh.

Oh, tune in tomorrow. Wonderful episode with Jonathan Bennett. Jonathan Bennett, my dear friend. What a fun, loving conversation with Jonathan Bennett. All things Mean Girls, quarantine, being happy, having a positive attitude. Jonathan Bennett, what a fun guy. Good friend. I think you will, all you Mean girl fans out there which is basically everyone

be sure to tune in and if there's nothing else uh we will see you tomorrow