The Viall Files - E168 A Conversation with Suicide Survivor Kevin Hines

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

Today we are having one of those tough but important conversations on The Viall Files. Nick is joined by guest Kevin Hines, a suicide survivor who jumped off The Golden Gate Bridge and lived to tell the story. This conversation is honest, inspirational, and educational when it comes to identifying signs of possible suicide ideations in yourself and those around you. Kevin shares his story, his immediate thoughts once his feet left that bridge, and how the experience has not only made him become a motivational speaker for suicide prevention and mental health but has motivated him to take his second chance at life at making sure that jumping off that bridge will never be an option. Committing to life is not always the easiest road; but as we learn in this episode, four words can make all the difference: "I Need Help Now." Normalizing and speaking about this topic is how less lives will continue to be impacted by suicide.  “I immediately regretted it.”  Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: HIDRATESPARK: hidratespark.com/viall for free US shipping HELIX SLEEP: helixsleep.com/viall for up to $200 off TRUVANI: Text FILES to 64000 to get the Protein Powder gift pick or $29.99Episode Socials:  Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall Kevin Hines @kevinhinesstory See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

And it's hydrate time. That's right. With the Hydrate Spark Steel. If you're watching this beautiful things glowing up like a rainbow. I mean, that's a fun one. It's fun. Just listen, an amazing water bottle. The steel bottle syncs with your free Hydrate Spark app and creates a personalized hydration

plan that's specific to me or you if you're using it. Like customizable glow colors and 24-hour insulation, it's cold for 24 hours. Order the new Hydrate Spark Steel today and get free shipping in the U.S. Go to hydratespark.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Hydrate Spark is spelled with an I, so that's H-I-D-R-A-T-E spark.com slash V-I-A-L-L. what is going on everybody how are you chrissy how are you good how are you i'm fine i'm fine getting closer with the the house thing I'm very excited for you. It's not mine yet. You know, these things go.

They drag out. They drag out. It's nerve wracking. But it's exciting. We'll see. The anticipation is exciting. You're picking up someone from the airport today? I am picking up someone from the airport today.

A guy? Yes. Is this A guy? Yes. Is this sex related? Yes. Like it's locked in. There's no like, we'll see how it goes. No. Yeah.

It's in. It's locked in. Done. This is like a- Got on a flight. Came here. Coming for sex. Weekend.

Fun. Good for you. I mean, I like, I'll preface by saying I've known this person for like 15 years. No shame. I'll know not to bother you. Yeah, don't text me. Although we will be close to where you live. So if you see us walking down, you know.

You've known this person for 15 years? Yeah. Are they a good friend? They are a good friend. And what, what, why not more? Because they live nowhere near me. Interesting. Yeah.

I played a fun game with someone I've been getting to know. Kind of dating-ish. I thought it was interesting. I realized, here's the thing i i've been resistant to maybe exploring it more for other but we don't we don't get into it we won't get into it we don't get into it but then i thought to myself you know what i should you know you know how sometimes when you like know someone but then you're like i don't know if i know you kind of thing little things yeah like i don't know if i've spent enough time with you that i know like where your toothbrush is

or that i asked this person um i thought i'm gonna take i'm gonna i text someone like tell me three things you love and three things you hate. Random things. First, she replied, wait, about us, about me, about you? And I'm like, no, nothing about me or us, but just random things about that you like or don't like. She's like, oh, good. Thanks for, I'm glad I asked because apparently the first thing she did was made a list about things she hates about me oh that was actually kind of funny i mean good

news is i made her tell me after she told me that i'm like well this there's none of this is new news yeah you're like everyone hates those things about me i hate those things i hate those things about me you know it wasn't like why would you say that about me? No, I'm not. You are. Par for the course. That's a fair statement. But it was also a fun game to play.

For the people who are in relationships, give it a shot if you've been married for a while. You know what I learned? Her favorite day of the week is Monday. Makes me concerned that she might be a psychopath but at the same time i would never have known favorite day of the week is monday what's your favorite day of the week not monday but monday is like fresh start what she learned about me is that i hate cut fruit oh like pre-packaged cut fruit or just cutting fruit in general

i if i i i will only eat fruit that i cut or i have to see someone cut it in front of me if you hand me walking into whole foods and seeing a container of cut up watermelon nightmare in my fucking nightmare i i uh if my if my mom who i trust dearly brought me like oh i just cut it 30 minutes ago and put it into like this airtight tupperware i just get the fuck that this is disgusting that's that's a great but there's little things in life that we love and we hate that are nuanced. You watched I Love on the Spectrum, right? Yeah. That was one of my favorite things about it was like, they like such and such and such and such.

And they hate loud whistles, chicken wings, and, you know, pears. Yeah. I relate. It was great. You can relate. I feel like a lot of people in in any kind of relationships don't do that like you know things but you don't and sometimes even in relationships we we kind of it's like oh i know everything about them and we forget to check in because

also things that we like and hate change yeah i'll do that later although i think i can answer all those questions about this person but maybe you Maybe you don't. What are some three, maybe ask them what are three things you've learned to love in the past six months or hate? You never. That's right. I'll report back. I never would have known her favorite day was Mondays. She probably never would have known. I was like, what's your least favorite day?

Buying a fruit bowl was offensive. I also love to hear the sound of people chewing food in movies only in movies really I'm not normal but it's a fun game random things that we love and hate

and that we were talking I was like I love I hate folding laundry she loves folding laundry I love folding laundry uh yeah it's a fun game it's a fun game i like it anyways happy sex we should start playing that with some of our guests that could be fun maybe maybe good luck with the sex thanks um i don't need luck we have a uh a great episode today. It's a heavier one, but it's a conversation that I thought,

well, I guess I was interested in the topic, and Kevin was kind enough to join us, being someone who has an incredible story of some low lows and some incredible perseverance on his part. And some, a man who has some incredible perspective that is incredibly unique. And we, we basically have a,

a very rich dialogue conversation about suicide. Yeah. And he's a suicide. Survivor. Survivor. Thanks to a seal. Thanks to a sea lion. Yeah.

Crazy. But I hope you guys enjoy this. Obviously it has a different tone say than last week when we were talking about cock rings and things of that nature. But. We like to keep it mixed up. Like having variety. But I do think that people will hopefully find this insightful. I think it's a topic that we don't talk enough about.

And what it means to even just say whether you've even had the thought and what that means or is there like even a spectrum in that thought? So I don't know. I don't know. Give it a listen. I hope you enjoy it. And other than that, I don't think,

is there anything else? No. Give us some five stars. Give us some five stars. We love them. Give some more new episodes coming up of your. I do. Tomorrow will be Daniel Malpy

and get ready for next Monday, Vanessa, no, Tuesday, I'm sorry. Next Tuesday. Yeah. The Vanessa and Rachel Lindsay. Vanessa is, I think everyone's waiting for. Everyone's waiting for that one. Also Jen Savion.

Oh. Recorded. From Bachelor in Paradise. All things about our relationship leading up to Paradise, after Paradise, me telling her I was a bachelor. Very honest conversation. That will be coming out. That's really cool.

In early August. Early August? People are going to- It's already late August. Maybe early September? October. October. October. So check that out on my,

on my Patreon. Nick V talks trash TV. Uh, you're missing out if you don't check it out. Yeah. Um, uh, don't forget to send your questions at ask Nick at cast me.com cast with a K.

And if there's nothing else, I hope you enjoyed this episode with Kevin. Kevin, thanks so much for joining. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Nice to meet you. Yeah, you as well. Chrissy introduced me to you and who you are and your story and I thought it would be great to have you on

and a chance to have what I assume is going to be a powerful and fascinating conversation with you. Someone who is a survivor of suicide. Is that a suicide survivor? Is that what we, how do you refer? That's fair. Suicide attempt survivor and a lost survivor. I've lost nine people.

I loved the suicide as well as attempted myself. So, yeah, I mean, I guess maybe it's just the easiest way to start is to have you, you know, share your story and give a little background about your experience and kind of bring us up to speed to kind of where you are now and then you know i'm sure we'll that'll bring up some questions i have and and some just maybe we can have just a rich discussion around this topic and um you know see if it uh might be helpful to anyone who might be listening absolutely uh well i i always say i was born in pain and that's uh that's uh why the deadpool the kuchamont because he was born in pain and that's uh that's uh why the deadpool accoutrement because he was born in pain and so was i um i was born in pain in the sense that i was born in squalor uh in tendloin in san francisco the worst neighborhood there then worst neighborhood there today um i was born to biological parents who after they had me uh sadly fell to hardcore drugs and alcohol, substance use disorder. And they couldn't take care of me and my brother.

And so one fateful day, when CD Motel clerk made his most unseemly decision, heard our screams and cries in his mind one too many times, and he called the police. And the police would come in that day and barrel down the door and take us into Child Protective Services, into custody, and into the foster care system in San Francisco. And the system was in shambles.

It was a mess. And kids were being let out at 18, aged into homelessness without a penny in their pockets, or they were being abused by the very parents that protect them, the very foster parents that protect them. And my brother and I bounced around from home to home. We both got a vicious strain of bronchitis. He died.

I immediately developed a severe detachment disorder from reality and abandonment issues that follow me until today. I always say that every time somebody in my life dies, I feel like it's my fault. I can't shake that no matter how much therapy I do. But I bounced around from home to home and landed in the home of Peter and Debbie Muller. And they were a transitional home for kids. So this is a home where you come in and then foster parents come to see who to take home and adopt. And one beautiful day, a lovely woman named Deborah Joan Hines walked in that door, and she was looking for a little girl to take home, but she saw me sitting on the carpeted floor.

And she said that was the moment she fell in love in her journal of those days. And she went home to Patrick Hines, and he said, let's do it. Let's take him in. He needs us. And they took me in. And for the first 30 days of being in Hines' home, I was finally ill. I was very sick. Doctor after doctor, specialist after specialist, no one could tell Pat and Debbie what was

wrong with their new-to-be son until one doctor came forward and said, Patrick and Deborah, it's all emotional. There's nothing physically wrong with your child, which was false. My birth parents had been feeding me what they could steal. My first diet was made of Kool-Aid, Coca-Cola, and sour milk for the first few months of my life. And my gut to brain health was very, very poor. Thus, my mental health was very poor, even as an infant. I was a mess.

Thus, my mental health was very poor, even as an infant. I was a mess. And for the first 30 days of being in the Heinz home, I was so sick that neither my mom or I slept. And Debbie, my new mom, came in and she leaned over my crib and she writes this in her journal of those days, which is how I know this story. She leaned into my crib and said, Gio, which is my biological name, was Giovanni. She said, Gio, you're my biological name, was Giovanni. She said, Gio, you're safe. We're not going anywhere. But if you don't knock this off, we're going to have to give you back. And it was as if at that moment that my infant mind understood her, because that was the first night we both slept soundly. And one thing was crystal clear when

we woke up in the morning is that I was home and I was at Heinz. Growing up in the Heinz home was a beautiful thing. Compared to my infancy, it was magical. Unconditional love from the family, from the extended family. What could go wrong from here was the idea. And then everything would at 17 and a half when I fell apart at the seams on a stage in front of 1200 people. Nothing like being comfortable when you're sleeping and doing it. And by doing it, it means sex. And I'll tell you what, Helix Sleep is doing amazing things when it comes to the place that you put your body on eight, 10 hours a day. Helix is an award-winning mattress,

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I've been certainly unwell, but nobody knew why. I didn't know what was going on with me internally. I was just rapidly declining, spiraling downward. And there I was on the stage in a theater show called How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, playing a character called Gatch. And I look out into the audience, and I believe that 1,200 people, not one seat was open, are going to rise, rush to the stage, and end my life. And I run off stage. I run to the lobby, and the theater director meets me there, and he calls my mom. And then very soon thereafter, I would go see my first psychiatrist,

and that would be the beginning of my, I don't know, fall from grace, I guess you would call it. Because from 17 to 19 years of age, it was just this rocky road of manic skyrocketing into natural highs of bipolar disorder and then crashing into depressions every single week. And then at 19, I did the unthinkable and attempted to take my life in a way that is 99% fatal off the Golden Gate Bridge. That's quite a story. And thank you for sharing because obviously it's a it's a heavy story and um you know can't always be easy to to go back and and talk about it i mean

to i i read up on you and it's fascinating to you know watch your movie and and and read some of the stuff you've written and and some of the speeches you've written and some of the speeches you've given. But, you know, someone who attempted suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, which is in a bad way kind of become infamous for suicide attempts. You talk about how after you jumped, you kind of had the thought of regret. And I just, it was, that was a very, even just reading that, a chilling kind of thing to read of what that might be like as you're, the seconds it would take to fall. I mean, what, could you kind of talk a little bit about that and what that experience was like? And just, is there a profoundness from that, you know, having been lucky enough to survive?

You know, I'm glad you brought that up. It was an instantaneous regret for my actions. The moment my hands left that rail, all I wanted to do was reach back. And, you know, I didn't get on a ledge to be talked back to safety. I was in free fall and falling 220 feet, 25 stories and 75 miles an hour in four seconds. I just thought, what have I just done? I don't want to die. God, please save me. And I hit the water. And this is important to note. Around the world, people that have survived suicide attempts, of all means, have recounted instant regret like I have around the world.

It is common. And I'll tell you why. It's because in the moment that you think it's too late, you realize that your thoughts did not have to become your actions. Your thoughts did not have to own, rule, or define what you did next. They're just your thoughts. And if you can label suicidal ideation as just thoughts and not a takeover, not a death sentence, then you can survive that pain. But I didn't know that back then. I couldn't see the forest through the trees. I could only see the pain I was in. And I often ask people in my presentations, if they find themselves in excruciating physical pain, what do they want that pain to do?

And you want it to stop. You want that pain to end or go away or stop. And I'm of the opinion that brain pain, what I go through mentally, what people go through mentally with these kinds of disorders, are 300,000 times worse than any physical pain we've ever experienced. Because people can't see them thus they don't empathize and they don't understand and you feel alone and you know uh when i when i hit that water uh the impact immediately shattered three of my vertebrae in t12 l1 l2 i went down 70 feet beneath the water's surface, but I opened my eyes. Now I thought you died on impact. I thought, you know, you go over and that's it. I'd read that somewhere. And in fact, you don't. In fact, there are tens of ways to die off the Golden Gate Bridge

and they're mostly slow and very violent. And I didn't know that. And I'm down 70 feet and I opened my eyes and now I'm drowning. And I didn't even comprehend or even think that by jumping in a giant body of water, I might drown. It didn't even cross my mind. And that's the nature and irrationality of suicidal ideation and how illogical it is. I frantically made my way to the surface. I couldn't feel my legs. And I bob up and down on the surface trying to stay afloat. But, but I'm not doing a very good job.

I keep going down and swallowing salt water. My boots are waterlogged. My long sleeve clothes are heavy. I couldn't reach my inhaler in my left pocket. And I'm, I'm, I come back up for air one more time and I go back down. I think this is it. This is where I, I die. And no one is going

to know that I don't want to. No one's going to know that I knew I made a mistake. And that's when something began to circle beneath me. And I freaked out because I thought, oh, you've got to be kidding me. I didn't die after going to get a bridge and a shark is literally going to devour me. And I'm punching this thing, but it won't go away. I'm freaking out. Well, I would find out a year later that it was no shark at all. I find out that I was on a show called Primetime Live with ABC's John Quinones. He does that show, What Would You Do? I'm on that show. And I sat on the show. I thought there was a shark beneath me in the water. And people wrote into the show. And one man's letter stuck out of all the rest. His name was Morgan McWard

and he wrote in and he said, Kevin, I'm so very glad you're alive. I was standing less than two feet away from you when you jumped. Until this day, watching this show, nobody would tell me whether you lived or died. It's haunted me until now. By the way, there was no shark, but there was in fact a sea lion and the people above looking down believed it to be keeping your body afloat until the Coast Guard boat arrived behind you. So like what the sea lion literally helped save your life? It literally saved my life. I would have drowned if it weren't for the sea lion. Now I've read a lot of stories since this happened. I've seen a lot of videos about how animals save people's lives in great danger. And there have been leopards and there have been tigers and there have been lions and there have been seals and sea lions and dolphins that save lives.

Even a shark saved a person's life once. So it's fascinating to see where these creatures come into play in certain situations. But for me, it was a miracle. And next to that, the whole day was a miracle because the woman driving by, there's a woman driving by at the moment of my attempt. She saw me go over the rail, immediately called her friend in the United States Coast Guard who happened to be manning the waters of the bridge that day. So the reason they got to my position in the water before I would set in hypothermia and drown a three-minute window was because that woman made that phone call in the timely manner in which she did. And so Coast Guard are on their way. Sea Lion saves me. Coast Guard arrive. They put me onto a flat board. And I'll never forget what the senior officer said to me. He goes, son, do you

understand how many people we pull out of these waters that are already gone? And I was completely conscious and aware. And I said, no. He said, this unit alone has pulled out 57 dead bodies from these waters and one live one. And he pointed at me. And that gave me a great amount of perspective. And it was in that moment, it was in that millisecond that he said that, that I knew no matter the pain I was in, I would never do anything like this again. It would be hard to make that a reality because I live with chronic thoughts of suicide, regular thoughts of suicide. But I made a pact with myself, frankly, my faith and my family that I would never attempt again, no matter how hard it

got. And I would be in nine psych ward stays in the next 14 years because of suicidal ideation. So it wasn't easy. It isn't easy. But, but every waking moment that I get to exist, I'm grateful. And I take no one and nothing for granted today, like I used to before I jumped, because, you know, I'm eternally grateful for every person I get to meet, because I almost didn't get to, like seeing you guys right here is important to me. It's crucial. I'm appreciative of every place I get to go, because I almost couldn't, everything I get to do, because it almost didn't happen. And, you know, it's been a gift to have been given a second chance at this life when 99% of those who have done the same thing I did don't get to tell their stories ever again.

Yeah, that is incredible. I mean, just the manner in which, you know, your story and jumping and i just keep going back to like that four second fall again what that what that must have been like do you do you relive that moment and you know that how vivid is that memory it's uh it's as crystal clear as the moment it happened. I sometimes have nightmares about it. The nightmares were worse right after it happened. I would have nightmares every night to the point of waking up in a cold sweat or a hot sweat where I would just be falling off the bridge, falling off the bridge, endlessly falling.

And then the water started getting closer and closer to me as as time went on in real life and and now now that I would call them more like dreams because now I fall off the bridge but the water's right there like you'd be going into a pool um so it went from it went from terrible nightmares to wake up in cold sweats and hot sweats to dreaming about not something so potentially fatal um but there are times when i'm awake when i flash back to falling and that that's hard because it gives me a shock, you know, and it's palpable. It's visceral. It's almost painful.

Nonetheless, I continue to move forward. You know, my wife is my greatest advocate. My father is my second greatest advocate. And I move forward and I try to – my goal is just to share my story as much as I can to help other people. But yeah, so that's – it's amazing to hear in terms of you taking this experience. And I guess I'd love to talk more about that in terms of taking this kind of tragedy that you experienced and thankfully survived um and the work you're doing now because you know even our conversation when we talked with with tall about just the rise and and and suicide you know especially in the with youth and people like in their teenage years with the age you were when you attempted suicide whether it's

depression social media all the things that are going on, you know, it can feel like a heavy world with the pandemic that's going on. And, you know, what are some of the things that you share or just kind of put out there to, you know, fight this kind of almost epidemic in itself that we face when it comes to, you know, fight this kind of almost epidemic in itself that we face when it comes to, you know, people attempting suicide? Yeah, absolutely. So one of the biggest things I share is the 10-step guide I built for myself to stabilize mentally. So I would say today that I'm mentally stable to the best of my ability. It doesn't mean I don't still have symptoms. I absolutely still have symptoms of my diagnosis, but I stay well most

of the time through those symptoms. I'm able to bring myself back to them because I'm self-aware, which is hard to be with this kind of disease. I have a severe form with psychotic features, this kind of disease. I have a severe form with psychotic features, but it's, it's, it's, I believe it's totally attainable. Uh, and so I give out a 10 step guide called the art of wellness. And that's on my YouTube channel, which you see here. Um, that's it's, it's, it's a 10 step guide, 12 videos, 10 steps, three to five minutes each on how to better balance your brain, mind, behavior, mental health, and wellbeing. It includes things like exercise, eating healthy, and education as to your diagnosis. It includes things like coping strategies and mechanisms to better your brain health. It includes things like refraining from drugs and alcohol, meditation, medication,

which doesn't work for everyone but works for me, and several other tools and tricks to better your brain health. They're all science-based, evidence-informed. We know that one of the biggest reasons people get better from mental instability is because they've implemented a very strict and stringent routine into their daily life. And it might seem monotonous. It might feel boring. But I free myself from that routine on the weekends with my wife and I,

and we enjoy the weekend and we do things that aren't necessarily part of the routine. But Monday through Friday, I'm on that routine and sticking to it because I know it's going to keep me on track. So that's one thing. Another thing is my wife and I have a foundation called the Kevin and Margaret Hines Foundation. And we do a couple of things. We give free therapy to eat a teletherapy to kids who otherwise couldn't afford it. We do a program, a film program called Directing Change, which is where high school students from around the country submit their suicide prevention PSAs and they win awards like you would at like

a, you know, not akin to an Oscars, but it's for suicide prevention, if you will. And then they win scholarships. Yeah. And so I'm curious, you know, you've talked about, obviously, your childhood and it's kind of traumatic upbringing, and then the events that you had as a 17 year old and your diagnosis is is like as far as suicide out there i mean are what are the studies if you know any in terms of i guess it's more like for the person who hasn't been diagnosed with anything or seemingly well you know was raised in this kind of, didn't have a traumatic childhood or, you know, things like that. Or someone like myself who, I mean, listen, I talk with friends.

I think about suicide. I don't, I don't, you know what I'm saying? I have never planned. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes I almost like reluctant to say it because it's not like a cry for help. But sometimes when I'm down, the thought of it crosses my mind. Is that a slippery slope? Or how should we become more aware of our thoughts?

Does that make any sense in terms of the people? I think some people think they would never consider it until they are considering it type of thing. Does that make sense yeah you know there's all kinds of of intrusive thoughts of suicidal ideation that occur in different people yours sounds more like it when you're having a down day it crosses your mind but it's not something you're willing to do yeah i mean i don't i'm not worried about it i don't i'm not yeah i don't consider myself to be suicidal but have i i i i think about it all the time like the thought of it but never never like oh my of course i would

never kind of thing in my head that's um and i wonder if people ever start there and go down a different path certainly and there are people you know i i I had a call a few years ago with a friend of mine who called me and said, Kevin, you know, I wasn't thinking of suicide. I haven't been thinking about it for a long time. And then I stood on the balcony of my hotel room and I just couldn't stop contemplating going over. that moment. I said, well, step back from the balcony, close the doors and let's have a chat. And so there's all kinds of different ideations and levels of ideation that occur. As long as you can, you can, in your situation, you can go, I'm never going to do that. It's just something that crosses my mind this many times or that many times. That, that, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a slippery slope, but, but, to be fair, for some people, they think about it every day. They think about it all day long. And they're just fighting tooth and nail to be here tomorrow.

And that's a big juxtaposition from what you're going through. But it doesn't make what you're going through or what you experience any less important or, you know, or any less, any less crucial. So you have to just be aware that you have those thoughts and you seem, you seem like a pretty self-aware guy who can go, not going to do that. Never going to do that. Just something that keeps crossing my mind. And as long as you are rooted in that, that, you know, you're safe and you kind of, maybe in my opinion, if I were you,

I would inform someone that loved me that those thoughts are crossing my mind, just so they could be aware with you. So you don't feel alone in that moment. That's just my... Yeah. I mean, I talk about with friends and people. And again, I don't want to... It's weird because I almost feel uncomfortable saying that as if like oh my god you know um but it's just something that like I do think about and I do talk with friends not and again just to I'm like do you ever think about this stuff like is a is a way like does that am I weird like is that like you're not weird does it does everybody is there like is there like something

you've done Kevin where like you find that every single person has thought about it at some point in their lives? Yeah. I envision how I would do it. No, they're not. They're going to execute it. But like all people kind of like have had that thought at one time. Yeah, I don't know. Millions around the world have had those same calm, I would call them ideations.

And millions around the world have had more serious ideations. And then millions around the world have had thoughts or actual attempts, and then there's millions that have died. So you have levels to this stuff, and you shouldn't feel weird about talking about it because that's how we break the discrimination and the marginalization against those with mental health crises is we do talk about it. And you giving me this platform on your show to talk about this and you being open and honest about what you go through, it's absolutely going to help your listeners because you have a lot of listeners. You have a lot of watchers. listeners because you have a lot of listeners you have a lot of watchers and that's gonna that's gonna there's you're gonna get notes after this after this podcast from people that you know will

really appreciate your your your truth talk about this topic because they are feeling the same way when you tell your story people tell you theirs i'm sure you know that by now um and and and and you know i'm really grateful that that we have this opportunity here today yeah and i i definitely appreciate you coming on and talking about it because it's weird because it's one of those things um where you know you like the way i feel sometimes you know you're here here sharing sharing your story kevin and i'm just like i think about well i've i'm so fortunate i'm so blessed uh kevin's been through so much you know you talked about the your diet as a very young child and uh you know i've i've never had a i don't have

to deal with bipolar um you know is does is it considered a disease or you know bipolar depression depression i've never had to deal with that i don't have to take medication and so i feel thankful and so then when i i follow up with a thought of like well i still sometimes get down at myself or i think about this and like it crosses my mind i feel like well i it's almost um like a pity party i feel like, well, it's almost like a pity party I feel like I'm having. It's almost like I'm not justified to think about it, so I don't like acknowledging it. Does that make any sense? So I would say what you're saying makes sense, but I'll say this. Your feelings and your pain, if you will, is no less than mine or someone someone else who's

had a more extreme situation it's just different it's just different whatever you're going through to bring you to those thoughts uh it's not a pity party it's not something that is less than what i've gone through it's just a different situation from a different person with a different mentality and that's okay. And I think that's where the end comes in and normalizing the conversation because it has to normalize all the conversations. Yours, mine, Chrissy's, everybody who's gone through mental struggles, everyone that's thought of suicide. Because for everyone, it's different. And my story on this podcast is going to reach some people in some way,

but my story is not going to reach everybody. What you just shared is going to reach some people that are going through exactly what you're going through and it's going to touch them in their heart. And they're like, Hey, I'm not alone. So you're not alone. They're not alone. And this is something that I guarantee you people will appreciate. Uh, we have a lot of, uh, parents listen to this podcast with young children

i'm assuming you've talked with a lot of parents about signs things to look out for um you know you hear these stories about someone's child commit suicide and they just wish they knew or wish they were more, they saw the signs, things like that. What are things that we can try to look out for and, and, um, be there for our kids? Uh, you know, and I, I'm, I'm assuming, and I'm not a parent myself that for the, for the people who have dealt with this tragedy, um, you know, I've, I've, I've had it be a part of, you know, without giving too much detail, my family and things like that, where it's just like, you never would have guessed. And this thought of it being too late, you know, what are some things that you can, advice you can give for the parents listening about how to try to just look a little closer, be more in tune in conversations they can have with their kids? in tune and conversations they can have with their kids.

So to parents listening, I would say, watch out for dramatic changes in your child's appearance, dramatic changes in your child's attitude, in their speech pattern and in their sleeping habits. And don't shove everything off to, you know, Oh, that's because they're going through puberty or adolescence and their body's changing. It's all hormones and don't go and don't show them off to, Oh, it's just a phase. If your child starts acting different in any way than they used to, be up in their grill about what they're going

through and let them know how much you care, how valued they are, how loved they are every single day. One of the things I notice when I travel around the country to go to high schools and grade schools is that there's a lot of kids whose parents don't say, I love you on a regular basis and don't say, you know, I care about you and I want you here. And in today's day and age, we are dealing with young people who have a lack of resiliency. We have a massive lack of resiliency in our country today and of our young people. And they're dying at an alarming rate by suicide. I'm of the opinion that every fourth grade child should be taught suicide prevention and mental health at a comprehensive level to their ability to

understand. I'm of the opinion that every parent before they become a parent should be taught about suicide prevention before the baby comes out of the womb. I'm of the opinion that we need to better our education system for both these topics, suicide prevention and mental and brain and mind behavior health for a younger audience. Because by the time they turn 16 and 17 and their best friend becomes suicidal and tells them they're thinking of suicide. And the best friend says, don't tell anyone. And they don't tell anyone.

And then that person passes away by their hands. And then this person feels guilty for the rest of their life. We could have avoided all that if we just taught them from the very beginning of their comprehension levels. The moment they can comprehend what suicide is, what mental health is, then they can be taught about it so they can defend upon it. what suicide is, what mental health is, then they need to be taught about it so they can defend upon it. And I think that if you're going to be, I want you to be vigilant parents in the sense that you're going to ask the tough questions. You're going to re-ask those tough questions. You're

not going to accept the first answer as fact. You're going to dig and dig and dig until you get to the bottom of it. And I think we need to be parents that monitor certainly what our kids are looking at online in a way that's more strict and more stringent if they're under the age of 18. And I know that's difficult. And I want to be clear. There's a lot of people that blame social media for these suicides, and that's not entirely the case. It's very easy to do. It's an easy target. It's not so much social media that causes these issues. What it is is what people are allowed to look at on social media and what they're finding and how it's affecting them without any comprehensive look at why bullying online is irrelevant or shouldn't matter to you because it's just an outside source looking in when you have to have strength within to come out for that resilience that we need to build.

We have forgotten to teach our kids how to have resolve. And if we don't teach our kids how to have resolve in the face of pain, how can we expect them to survive that pain? So I think that social media is not the culprit in suicides. It's just a causative factor if we allow it to be, because social media can be used for great things. It can do a lot of good. This podcast is going to live on social media and it's an educative, awareness-focused, positive podcast. It's going to help people. So obviously we can do great good with different forms of media online. And it's a matter of picking out which ones we allow our kids to be able to see. Yeah. I'm just listening to you talk. I you, and I'm just listening to you talk,

I mean, and I think you kind of elaborated, but just to articulate the point, I mean, it's almost as if you're saying, and I feel like this is the case where we don't talk about suicide enough or just acknowledge its existence. And if we do, I think it's very common for people just to assume well that you know i would never do that or my kid would never do that my kid isn't bipolar or we associate it with someone who might have experienced a very specific and very difficult tragedy and again you know their you know their child might experience like this drastic change in their look, and they may just be unaware, and we just don't know. It's almost like, this would never happen to my kid, or this would never happen to my friend until it's almost too late kind of thing, where we just have to acknowledge that it's something that can happen and can happen to anyone. Let me be clear. It is the any kid and the every kid and the any adult and the every adult that could die by their hands.

It doesn't matter what you've been through in the past. It doesn't always matter if you've had a traumatic life. There are situational depressions that can come upon someone's existence and literally destroy them. You know, look at all the Fortune 500 individuals who have lost it all in the stock market and then taken their lives. They weren't going to days prior to that experience. Then they did lose everything and they decided that was their identity and they couldn't live. Or the individuals that are sadly going to go to do a bid in prison or jail and they can't allow that to happen, they take their lives. Or the individuals who lose a loved one to cancer

and that loved one was their everything and their every person and they take their lives. They would never have thought of that before this ultimate situation, but after the situation, they comprehend it. So there could be this break in sanity and this break in their reality that allows them to ponder suicide or even attempt or die. And I think that we need to be that we need to be cautious, aware, and recognize that it can happen anyone, anywhere, anytime. What we need to do is if they can't reach out, like I couldn't reach out when I went to the Golden Gate Bridge. I was on a bus with 100 people hoping, wishing, and praying that one of them would ask me if I was okay or something wrong or they could help me. And I would have told them everything, but I couldn't say the words aloud

myself. I'm crying on the bus profusely, waterfalls flowing from my eyes, and nobody said anything except what the hell's wrong with that kid. And if we're going to be a society of kind, giving individuals, which is what we need to be, we have to be a society of kind giving individuals, which is what we need to be, we have to be willing to reach into someone in pain, potential lethal, emotional pain, visible pain.

And we have to reach into people who don't look like they're in trouble. We have to ask those questions to people who just to, just to, we're curious about, you know, our loved ones because it it can happen to anyone. Yeah. It's a, I don't know, interesting discussion.

And I mean, it's, that's, I guess that, like you said, just it could happen to anyone. And just being aware of it seems like such a big step. And I think, you know, thinking about it, listening to you talk, I mean, you're obviously, your story, you're a survivor of a suicide attempt. And just to hear, it's like both heartbreaking and inspirational to listen to someone who's a survivor. Heartbreaking in the sense for other people who were successful in their suicide attempt. heartbreaking in the sense for other people who were successful in their suicide attempt inspiring for the people who survived it and their kind of newfound appreciation for life and you know and that's the the tragedy behind it because to hear someone you know survive it and realize

that they are glad they weren't successful that when you as soon as you jumped you immediately regretted it like how how can we get to that point where we save more people prior to these attempts because a lot of them do regret it or or you know we only hear it for the ones that do survive you know and so it's that's i guess that's heartbreaking um and uh something I'm thankful we can talk about. I worked in the field for 20 years. And people say I'm not supposed to have that guilt factor, but I still do. Every time someone I love dies, I still feel like, what could I have done? It's a natural question to ask yourself.

But you have to recognize in that moment that their actions were not your fault. They didn't die because of you. They didn't die in spite of you. in that moment that their actions were not your fault. They didn't die because of you. They didn't die in spite of you. They died because of that lethal emotional pain that had nothing to do with you. And if you can understand that, you can find a way to move forward and honor their memory. I know that firsthand.

When I become suicidal, it is a grip that does not want to let go of me. It is overwhelming. It's overpowering. It's mind-bending. And it brings me to my knees. But the first thing I do when I become suicidal is raise my hand and say to the person in front of me four simple but effective words, I need help now. And I'm willing to do that every time. If we can get more people willing to do that, you'd be surprised how many great people that are out there who are willing to help.

I've done that, I must say, hundreds of times. And whether I am with someone I know and love or I'm with someone I don't know very well, or I'm by myself and I just turn to the person in front of times, whether I am with someone I know and love or I'm with someone I don't know very well, or I'm by myself and I just turn to the person in front of me, it's not always the first person that is willing to help. But I've always found someone willing to sit with me and be there with me in my pain and help keep me here. And I think we have to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are going to be good in the face of that struggle, in the face of that kind of pain. You know, every time it's happened to me, I've been able to live because someone has come to my aid. So we're not alone. Well, that's, I mean, obviously great to hear and and um you know those are you

know strong words i need help now and i think you know whether it's experiencing those dark thoughts or or or not something is serious i mean i think sometimes we are afraid to ask for help or admit our vulnerabilities or admit um out there that we we struggle with whatever our problems whatever our our help whatever help we need and it's it's encouraging you encouraging for for to hear you say that and put it out there and even recognize that you know someone who like yourself who survived it who swore to never do it, still struggles and something that you still, to this day, you know, deal with and put out there and challenge yourself to constantly ask for help when you need it.

If I passed away when I did, so many people's lives would be so much different. And then it just goes on forever as I grow older. And this will be my 20-year anniversary of my attempt off the Golden Gate Bridge on September 25th. And I'm going to celebrate it like it's my birthday because I get to be here. And getting to be here is a privilege and a gift, no matter the pain you might be in. No, I mean, I'll celebrate it with you, man. And happy, what are you calling it a happy birthday is it like what do you yeah it's i think it's a rebirth yeah happy rebirth i mean i'm not even a big fan of birthdays i would celebrate the shit out of that yeah

um have you been i mean well i know you I know you have, cause I've seen, you know, some of your, your content, but how often do you go back to the Golden Gate Bridge? And, and, um, I know you've, you've even done a lot of work. You've been a big influence on, do they now have suicide barriers with the Golden Gate Bridge? They're building them. They're building them right now. So let's talk about that. As of January, 2023, not one more beautiful soul ever again be lost

to the Golden Gate Bridge and it will effectively become the largest and brightest beacon for suicide prevention all around the world. You know, when the Golden Gate Bridge puts up a net, it's going to be the standard

for all bridges. And right now, the Bridge Real Foundation is receiving letters and requests on how to build these things in buildings tall structures and bridges all over the world that that's fantastic and i think i want to say malcolm gladwell talked about this in his

book or something in terms of there were like the the critics for you know even putting up a net or something like that where it was would it would it almost um create more like bring more attention to it or where they just find a different means or things like that and it was staggering i and i'm forgive me because i don't remember the details but it was overwhelming that the the nets were clearly a positive thing and that they literally saved all these lives and there was really no justifiable reason to not do it. My point in all this is when you lose perspective, try to stop, pause, take a breath, take 10 more, take 30 more, resonance breathing, and just understand that your thoughts do not have to become your actions you don't have to die it's not a death sentence it just means you

really have to fight for yourself ask for help and ask for help on a large scale and if the first person you meet isn't willing to continue to ask for that help until you find someone willing to empathize with your pain because there's somebody out there that's going to make sure you're safe today well i think those are are great thoughts to end on um and kevin i just want to thank you for sharing your story and putting it out there and having this conversation with me and um you know for those of you listening thanks for for doing so. And yeah, I guess just normalizing the reality that this is a problem that we deal with in our society and there's ways to fight it and save people and just have conversations with our friends and loved ones and be okay with asking for help as hopefully our kind of takeaways from this conversation.

So I really appreciate you taking the time, Kevin. Thank you so much for having me on. And I really appreciate your time. And I'm grateful to be a part of the show. For sure. Where can people find you for anyone who might be listening, who wants to reach out, need some help? Any information I think that you could share right now would be great. Absolutely.

The best way to find me is YouTube.com slash Kevin Hines. I answer all of my comments. So please find me there. Subscribe, hit the bell. There are 400 plus videos there, all designed to help you with your brain mind behavior health and mental well-being they're all educational entertaining some are funny uh some with uh some youtube celebs there there's a lot of stuff there to help as many different kinds of people as possible with as many different mental struggles as possible and recovery from

addiction specialists are on there um we've got a whole litany of videos that are made for you today. And we make them with the best science-based evidence, informed information to help you actually change your life. So they're both fun and helpful. So check that out. You can reach me on Instagram at Kevin Heinz story. And same, same on Facebook and Twitter. I'm a pretty reachable person. It takes a while to get back to everybody,

but I will get back to you. Well, that is awesome. And again, thank you for taking the time and sharing your story. Congratulations on everything you've done and your continued success. And yeah, thanks. Thank you very much.

Take care. All right, you too, buddy. And thank you guys listening. We appreciate you taking the time. Hopefully you found this interesting, helpful, informative, whether it's for yourself, a loved one, or maybe for someone in the future. Don't forget to send us your five-star reviews on iTunes. Anything else? There's a Patreon out there where I talk to my exes and it's super fun and entertaining. A little bit lighter than this, but hey, check us out. The link is on my Instagram.

And if there's nothing else, we will see you on Monday.