The Viall Files - E17 Rumer Willis

Episode Date: April 24, 2019

This week I’m joined by my good friend Rumer Willis to address some…rumors. We discuss the recent news about me making out with a guy, we talk about the gossip around us dating, and we get deep about the reasons we all self-sabotage. Then we take an interesting call from a fan you have to hear.At the end of the day, we have to get out of our own way to become the person we were destined to be. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode! Thank you to our sponsors: LIVELY: wearlively.com/viall HUM NUTRITION: humnutrition.com/get_started Openfit (text VIALL to 303030 to get started) Send your sex and dating questions to [e-mail]. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're crazy. joined by my very dear friend, Rumor Willis. Hello. One of my besties that I've become very close friends with for the past few years, and I'm very excited to have her on. We have Rochelle with us. Hello. I have my Natural Habits Diffuser running with our Natural Habits Diffuser oils that will be available for sale in May. So sexy. That's the only reason I'm here, you guys.

I just really wanted some diffusers in my house. Because apparently candles are bad. They are. Candles are bad. You'll hear more from me on this particular topic. Nick just broke my heart. He told me that candles are so bad. Think about what candles do.

They're full of pyrophene. Nick just broke my heart. He told me that candles are so bad. Think about what candles do. They're full of paraffin. It's full of chemicals. Yeah, but I never thought about that. I'm not burning a candle thinking about it. They're putting fragrances and chemicals that make it burn longer and smell good, and then you set it on fire, and then you breathe it in your house.

Fair enough, fair enough. If you put a bird next to a candle, it'll literally die. Well, I'm not going to do that because I like birds. I'm just saying, you know, they have sensitive respiratory systems. So, you know, imagine your child is a bird. Oh, man. That's dark. It's dark, but you know who also has sensitive respiratory systems?

Young children. Yeah, they do. Yeah. Anyways, essential oils are a much healthier alternative to making your home smell nice and they have medicinal benefits like relaxation. It's helping you sleep better, anxiety,

reducing headaches. Anyways, Natural Habits is selling diffuser oils. We are doing pre-orders for diffusers. They're out in May. Supplies are very limited, so we're doing a special launch. So anyways, that's that. And it's like Willy Wonka. Like every 10th person, you get a diffuser

with Nick's face on it. It's not my face. It just says Natural Habits. And a golden ticket. They're ceramic stone diffusers. They're very nice. They come in black and white. I can't stop thinking about kids dying. NHOils.com. I'm just saying like, what do you think when you're spraying that for breeze?

Well, I'm not spraying for breeze in my house. You think candles are much different? No, I already, you know, first of all, I went to a doctor a couple years ago, kind of a woo-woo doctor, but I love that stuff. And he told me that I was allergic to perfume, and that to me was so devastating. I do wear, I mean, yeah. I love it. It's one of my favorite things.

That's still not healthy. I mean, I pour cologne too, but it's not ideal. Well, that's when I just started using essential oils and I would just mix my own blah, blah. The thing about essential oils too, though, is people have asked that they're meant to absorb in your skin, like our roll-ons. They're not a perfume. So we don't put chemicals in it so they won't last like a cologne or perfume because they put those chemicals in there to make them last longer. You want to reapply it, but yeah, that's a healthier alternative. You know, I've got to do something

because I just want to smell good all the time. Anyways, nhoils.com. No code is needed if you order the pre-order, during pre-orders for diffuser oils. So more to come, but anyways, I'm very excited about it. It's very sexy looking. Thank you. Anyways, we have a rumor.

I thought I was in the news a little bit this past week for making out with a guy. How did you feel about that? The making out with a guy? Yeah. Like was it difficult for you? I was a little annoyed just by how it came out. I had the Call Her Daddy girls on my podcast, which will be, that episode will be coming

out in a couple weeks. Lovely, great, lovely girls. They're very entertaining and they offer some great insights. So I look forward to you guys checking that out. I was a little annoyed by them because they showed up with a little vlogger and then like, you know, making conversation with them. And then like their first like two minutes, like, well, how is, you know, what are you guys, what have you been up to? And like, kind of like, you know, warm it up for the podcast. I'm like, well, I made out with a guy yesterday. Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And like the

guy's recording it. And obviously, you know, it's just so everyone knows I'm filming a TV show. It's called The Coop. It's with Funny or Die Productions. Look, let me preface that. And well, that's the thing. It's just, listen, I'm secure with my sexuality. I don't care. I didn't want, like my only frustration with it is I didn't want it to seem like

these girls dropped this video of this out of context comment about me making out with a guy and have it come across as some sort of publicity stunt that it was like for anything else it was a job an acting job I'm very excited that I you know I'm building my acting career and be able to do things and so it is for a show and it was nothing more than that but I was I was why I was I was kind of you know and then they dropped this video and not tell me

about it I can't believe they did yeah people know know you well enough, A, I think, to know that if you're going to do a publicity stunt, it's not going to be you making out with a dude. You know what I mean? I'd agree, but who knows? I think that's one of those times. I was sensitive to it. You just have to trust the people that know you. People are always going to say things.

Yeah, I know. But anyways, so just to clear the air there, I did get quite a few text messages from some of my gay friends, and my DMs did fill up. They're like, have you come over to our dark side, Nick? I mean, I don't think any of my gay friends. Did Brad message you? Brad definitely messaged me.

Like, Brad doesn't ask. He was like, I'm devastated, implying that, like, why not him? The fact that Brad's married too though. But like, no, I don't think Brad thought for a second that. If you guys made out, it would just be you making out with yourselves. You look exactly the same. I don't. I'm flattered by that comment because I think he's a beautiful man.

But I don't, like, I have, like, I don't think we look that close. But I don't, yeah, he was very playful. I don't think that any of them thought that I was actually like, but he jokingly had some fun with it. And a few of my other friends reached out just needing details. And then my DMs did fill up with... Get a little spicy. I appreciate my gay fan base.

And thank you for listening if you are. And thank you for following my Instagram. You know, I appreciate you. I'm sorry if I've let you down by letting you know that it was just for a TV show. It was fine, though. Like, whatever. It was. In this day and age, I'm shocked that that's actually news.

I know. Why can't we just make out what we want to make out with? Listen, I think I agree that's actually news. I know. Why can't we just make it what we want to make it with? Listen, I think, I agree that it should be less and less. Like, I don't think in 10 years it will be news that way. Let's hope not. But yeah, I don't know. So yeah, that was it. I've done that plenty on screen.

Do you think, there's definitely double double standard with men and women though. Oh, absolutely. Because growing up, even as early as high school, certainly college, girls are going to the bars. And what I've heard from some of my girlfriends who have done it, and some of these girls will say, I'm not at all attracted to women, but whatever because we knew. It's a girl, we're whatever, because we knew that we're

friends and we thought the guys would be, think it's hot. Guys don't obviously do that to get the attention from women. I also don't think that women find it as attractive as men do when you flip that around, right? Like if you saw two guys making out who were straight to get attention, I don't know if you would be like, Ooh, that's, I'm into this. I mean, especially if they were doing it for attention, I don't know if you would be like, ooh, I'm into this. I mean, especially if they were doing it for attention, I'd go, that's like, okay. No, I know. Yeah.

But I think that there's a double standard also because, and you could speak probably more to this than me, but I feel like there's some sort of guy fantasy of, oh, there's two girls and they want me so bad that they're making out with each other to get my attention, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Whereas I think on the reverse side of that, it's almost instead of two girls coming together to get your attention, it's almost, I feel like the girl fantasy

is like two guys fighting over her to get her, you know what I mean? So it's a bit I feel like the girl fantasy is like two guys fighting over her to get her. You know what I mean? So it's a bit of an opposite dynamic. Yeah, no. And Nick says he made out, yeah. And tongue was involved. I was a little bit nervous.

Tongue was involved. Listen, it's with Funny or Die. So it's think more Will Ferrell and Sasha Barricona and less Brokeback Mountain. It's not going to win any awards for steamiest makeout. It's just silly, though, that this becomes such news. I don't know. It's just, even if you were just like, yo, I made out with a dude, whatever. It's like, cool, man.

Partly I wanted to bring this up because next week now i'm i'm i'm uh i'm promoting all my future episodes i see next week's an important episode for me i have my parents on and one of my siblings and one of my siblings recently came out as as gay and you know that the whole episode is not about that but i'm very proud of my family and and how progressive they've come and understanding and we come from a very traditional religious Catholic household and not that we still aren't but I am proud of how my family has come

together and supported my sibling and I hope that people tune in next week but there is still kind of confusion and sensitivity around sexuality and identifying with the different sexuality. And then for the people who are straight, who are in the majority, who don't have to face the fears

of coming out and the judgment of being gay. And so for the people, I think that's where it comes across for the people who are straight, who, you know, if it's like a guy who I met out with a guy or whatever, and like, whatever. Gay people all the time are constantly ridiculed, sadly, for being, or at least being fear, afraid of being ridiculed, especially if they're coming from a more conservative part of the country and things like that. So I think that's where sometimes the sensitivity comes from. Absolutely. So I don't know. I just, I don't want to be insensitive to it, but it's going to be a great show.

I don't know when it drops. I'll let you guys know though, but it's a great cast. It's very talented. Tony Hale's in it, Brian Husky, a lot of other people. Do you make out with Tony Hale? I don't. Oh, shame. I would have, yeah, I would have, I would have been down, you know?

No, it was a, also it felt like nothing. It was like a benign experience because I'm not, yeah, it was just like, okay, whatever. Yeah. I was nervous though at first. Then I was like, eh, whatever. I don't know. Yeah. Short and sweet.

How you doing, rumor? I'm good. How you been? You know, I'm in the process right now of Marie Kondo-ing my life. Marie Kondo-ing? Marie Kondo. What's that? What?

How you don't know? I feel like this is so up your alley. Oh, the Netflix girl who- Yeah, so she has the book, The Life-Changing Art of Tidying Up, right? Yeah. So I'm one of those people, and I fully kind of blame my mother a little bit for this, but I will take my own responsibility. I feel like I'm like a collector of things because I always, I always love trying new things. And I love knowing like literally down to

sheets and products and whatever it may be. I love trying different things. And so I, when I was doing Empire in Chicago, I had an apartment out there. And so I just recently went and cleaned it all out and brought all my stuff back. And so my house was just overrun with so much stuff. And I realized I had doubles. You kind of already had a lot of stuff to begin with. Exactly. I already have a lot of stuff.

Exactly. So I was just trying to kind of minimize and simplify my life. And because I feel like I just had so much clutter and so much stuff. Was this, are we talking about both like tangible items or are we also talking about everything like your life and people? It's moving in that direction as well. As long as I still make the cut. Yeah. I'm going to Marie Kondo you out. Like, hey, Nick,

you're great, but I don't have room. I can't fold you into the drawer. I don't have room for you. You don't spark joy anymore. Yeah, you don't spark joy. Yeah, you're nice to have, but you don't really add value.

There's no secret sauce in what you bring to the table. No, you make the cut. Okay. But I think it's important. And I even scout, my sister and I took boxes of say unopened mouthwash or things, say gifts that I'd gotten from swag bags. And we made a box and we're going to donate it, I think maybe to a shelter of some kind and had some food too, that was unopened that we were just going to drop maybe

at some sort of encampment. And just, yeah, simplify. I think that's my kind of motto of this year is to just simplify my life. Are you kind of a pack rat? Oh, yeah. I just went to my storage the other day. I'm the opposite.

And I had so much stuff. Like I found this vintage Leica camera that I thought I had lost to the wind and I was devastated and Scout found it. I was very excited. But I need to just declutter. I have been pretty good at that. I'm not the tidiest person, but when I do a spring cleaning,

I'll be like, have I used this in three months and do I care? Gone. Doesn't spark joy. Doesn't spark joy. I'm pretty decent at that. Sometimes almost too liberally. Yeah. Where all of a sudden I'll be like,

yeah, could have, little impulsive got rid of that, like a week later. I've done that too. I have some pieces of clothing that I think I just got rid of that I wish I had kept. But also, I just think,

for me, I have that type of personality where either everything is kind of organized chaos, but if I have the time and the space to get super OCD and everything has a spot, it's all container stored out, I'm all about it. It's so sexy. You said you grew up like that though, like your mom kept everything too? Oh yeah. There was always extras of things. Is that the kind of idea? I think people who do that, it's like you never know when you're going to need it again. You know? You never know.

You never, I had, my roommate was like that. I mean, he had jeans from high school. I mean, I have that too. They still fit. I mean, I know fashion's cyclical, but like, you know, just. Well, it's hard to, I feel sometimes as an actor because, and also I love costume parties, that I need to have. It's great for Halloween. No, but I feel like I need to have a section in my house, maybe in my garage, a rack that, say you have an audition to play, I don't know, an astronaut or someone like in a country western.

Or, you know, I've auditioned recently for someone in the military. And so I had things that maybe aren't my normal style but that are more buttoned up or you go to a costume party. I needed to be a ninja the other night and I realized I have a ninja costume. Where was this costume party you went to that I didn't get an invite?

I mean, it's fine. Next, we'll do another one. Man, of course, I don't have costumes because I get rid of this stuff. See, but then you keep them because then you just rebuy them. It's quite Amazon. Yeah. And then you donate it again.

Yeah, but why not just keep it? Because it's like the space, because it doesn't spark joy for the 10 years you're not using it. A ninja costume will always spark joy for me. Also, like anything from the 70s. Sure. Come on. sparking joy. So ever since I've known you,

you've been a very focused person in your career. You've done some great things. Like, well, actually you won Dancing with the Stars before I met you. I watched all of Rumor's dances before going on Dancing with the Stars. And before we were friends, I was obsessed. Really?

She was so good. So good. Rumors are incredibly talented. Dancing's like a hobby. Because what she's really good at is singing and acting. She's very talented. Dancing is like me roller skating. Like, I'm good.

But I'm not a pro. Guys, he's really good, though. We went together because I really enjoy it. And I was shocked and kind of upset I was really mad we're very competitive but like I said

I'm fine I'm fine I'm good but like I'm not like and that's how Rumor is dancing awesome she's so good

but she's really good at singing she's really it's in I feel like I'm a better dancer than you are a roller skater though I can't argue that.

You're an incredible dancer. You were really good. I watched all of her dancers on loop. Did you fangirl out when you met her then? No. That's interesting about fangirling. I fangirled recently when I met David Beckham last week

and it was funny because I did all the things that people have done to me that I have judged I've fangirled twice in my life and I realized this I was talking to a rumor about this it's fascinating because I've become friends and met some

pretty big names in Hollywood that are women and it's cool and it's not, I've met some, I've become friends and met some pretty big names in Hollywood that are, that are women and it's cool and it's exciting, but I'm not like, they're people. And, but when you meet like someone you grew up admiring, and it's for me, like men who like, I think are cool or like, I want to emulate David Beckham being one of them. The only other time that ever happened was when I met Rumor's dad at her birthday and I've met, I've met her, her mom. And like, it've met her mom. I grew up watching your mom and it was like, oh, that's cool. But immediately she just felt like a mom. And I quickly started asking her advice, what we were talking. When I met your dad, I was like, and he was very polite. And I was just like, hi. And then it was at your mom's house and she has a big house with different walkways

and there was a time I went back to get a beer in the kitchen and your dad was standing on the doorway just leaning plenty of space and I looked

and I was just like you know I'll just take the long way around because I don't want to I just I didn't want to fuck up you know like and it was just like

Bruce Willis he was he's just I was just such a huge fan of of your dads growing up. It was like meeting your childhood hero. It was a weird feeling.

I never thought about it. But anyways, I walk into the coffee shop and David Beckham's there. And I walk and I notice him right away and I'm just like, that's David Beckham. And I'm like, this would be cool. And he was ordering coffee

and he kept looking the other way and back. I was like, what is he looking at? Well, he was getting a parking ticket. Savage. Savage. And it was fascinating because I was like, oh. And he was basically just waiting for the cops to leave because I was like, I don't even want it.

I don't want Curtis to see him. I'm just going to leave. Anyway, so that was kind of my end. I like oh man that's how you it sucks and i was like my end like making conversations like just another guy hey i'm just talking and so he's waiting he's like he he orders his coffee and i was like you know what fuck it and i was just like david would it be cool if i get a quick pic you didn't't say Mr. Beckham? No. I said David. And he was so cool. He was very, very gracious.

And he's like, yeah, no problem, man. And then I did the thing that people always do to me. And I go, thanks, man. My sisters are going to be so excited. And I thought to myself. Stop lying. What are you lying for, Nick? Like every time someone comes up to me and you're like, can I have a picture?

It's like, oh, my grandma or my mom's such a big fan. Like, really? You know how many times I've taken pictures because someone's mom's a big fan or grandma? And I'm like, so you're, okay, that's fine. I don't really like you, but my mom does. But my mom does. Anyway, so I'm like, my sister's gonna be so excited. And I immediately like judge, I'm like, you know what, David?

I'm actually a huge fan. I correct myself because I realized I did that. We took a couple pics, or just one pic. I was trying to make conversation because some people do that to me. Let's be friends now. I was like, so what brings you around here? You kind of pause for the coffee. I don't think he wanted to tell me, which is totally fine. I'm like, well, have a,

have a great day. Thank you so much. And it took every bone in my body not to be like, so do you like want to hang out like now or later? Like I, I had to like actively tell myself just to walk away, but, and yeah, he was very cool. And I actually, it was just like, I actually was like, Hey, do you mind if I post this? Because I do have a small following I didn't want it to you know he was very gracious and he liked and commented on my post wow you're in you're in so we're best friends anyways um I fangirled over David Beckett rumor I was just more like he didn't fangirl no no but I was I I had no shame in saying like you're an incredible dancer I've watched all like you were my you were she was my goal like that's who I wanted I wanted to dance

like not like I mean is the like I wanted to be that good and she was she was she's awesome appreciate that um she's even a better singer but um work a work in progress. Back to, we got a little off track. Anyways, you've been very focused. Do you relate some of that to being sober? Have you always been this focused in your career? Or do you think since you've decided to, you weren't your best self? And I think that's the best way to articulate that.

Forget about whether you were an addict or you were an alcoholic. You knew that you weren't your best self and you made a choice to, do you think that's helped your career as well? Yeah, I think the main thing for me was realizing and again, to simplify it all, it was that I didn't like how I was feeling. I didn't like how I was presenting myself. And I think once that shifted and I started really getting in touch with who I wanted to be, that that's kind of what shifted it a bit. But I do think that part of that is also maturity. But I do think that part of that is also maturity.

Because I think one of the hardest things that I've struggled with is drive. Really? When I was younger, especially. You're very driven now. Yeah, but it's something that I had to work for. And I don't know if that's because of how I grew up or actually that's a lie. I think it's about overcoming a fear of being too scared to try something because of fear of failure. Do you think, I mean, having the parents that you have and their successful careers played a role?

Was it having anything to do with living up to that? That's never bothered me as much. I think it's definitely more so about myself. Yeah, and kind of coming at it from a place of being a little bit self-sabotaging and just not allowing myself to flourish because of fear that I won't be good enough or I won't succeed or be whatever it is. I think a lot of people can relate to that. I mean, I think everyone, to a certain degree, doesn't do things out of fear of failure.

I don't like karaoke because I don't like doing things I'm not good at because I don I mean, I don't like that I like that, but I like to be good at things. And so I work really hard. And so if I'm not good at it and I know I can't do well, I just sometimes won't do it. I wish I would get out of my head sometimes and do that. But I do think a lot of people can relate to the fear of failure. Most people, I mean, even when you ask, when people don't ask someone out that they're attracted to, it's the fear of failure. It's the fear of rejection. And I mean, the fear of failure is a really hard thing to overcome.

Well, and I think also it's a way, I think that the self-sabotaging mechanism is something that I've dealt with in a lot of arenas in my life. arenas in my life because I feel like also, and I'm sure a lot of women and maybe men can relate to this, is this like picking unavailable people because there's almost a way that then, oh, well, I can't really get hurt because they're never really going to be invested. Or there's like a built-in excuse. Yeah. And it's a way to keep people at arm's distance because if you know that they're not someone that you can really dive in or is really going to want to see you and be with you, I feel like there's this way of going, oh, well, they were just, you know, you can go to your girlfriends. They weren't fixable. Yeah, like, you know, they just, they couldn't be in a relationship. And I just, not that I talk like this with my girlfriends, but he just couldn't do it.

I've never heard you talk like this before. I don't, but I don't know why that's in my mind how I talk when I'm talking about guys. So you do this in your dating life? Do you think I self-sabotage in my dating life? Absolutely. Really? Yeah, 100%.

How so? This is not, I'm really, I don't know. I'm afraid to have her answer. We might cut it out if I don't like it. Yeah, fair enough. Well, the people that you've gone after recently that we've talked about, I'm not going to blow up your spot and go into detail, but I think that maybe you're picking women who you know

you're not going to be able to have an adult relationship with who are mature enough to deal with. Preach. What do you mean by adult, rumor? I said I'm not going to blow up your spa. We're homies. Fine. Not, anyways.

But by the way, what I've learned recently is that maturity has nothing to do with your age. It's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both. Yeah. One thing I want to ask about, a funny story. How do you, when people give, I'm curious about this. I think you'd be perfect because we had this story once about someone I went after. And getting dating advice from friends and sometimes getting, I'm also,

follow up to that is, when is the right time to let your friend know if you don't like the person they're dating? But back to getting dating advice from your friend. This was a while ago. I was in to this person and they kind of came on my radar and I reached out. He slid into the DMs. Slid into the DM. That is a Nick 101 dating. He slid into the DMs.

That is a Nick 101 dating. I just love how casually you use that phrase when we were hanging out a bunch. You were literally just talking. That was just a casual phrase that you used. Don't get me wrong. I've done it too. No shame. Everyone does it.

It's like I don't know why people still talk about it. It's some sort of taboo thing. I know because it's just funny. Because there's a difference. You can't just say, yeah, i messaged them or i reached out you're like i slid into their anyways it sounds so much dirtier and rumor approved of this person i did which is rare yeah um i reached out i got a response this person had recently got out of a relationship and so i was thrilled about the response and it was pretty quick and this person was recently got out of a relationship. And so I was thrilled about the response and it was pretty quick.

And this person was out of town for the summer. And I was like, okay, well, like they responded. I was like, well, when you're back in town, let's get together. And I'm thinking, great, I'll just leave it. Now. That is not true. Hold on, let me preface this.

This happened during a weekend where a rumor was also courting a young man. And by young, I mean like someone older than her, but like a guy. A man. A man. I don't go after young men. Whatever. She was, you were dating this guy.

Yeah. And it was like kind of like more than slightly dating, but you hadn't defined the relationship. It was, right, this kind of. Yeah. Scout taught me this. So when we hadn't defined the relationship. It was right, this kind of. Yeah, Scout taught me this. So when we hadn't DTR'd. You haven't DTR'd it. Or woo-wooed. Have you heard that one yet?

I haven't heard woo-wooed. I had a DTR last night. Woo-woo is what's up with us. Isn't that good? That's good. I can't remember. I think Scout's boyfriend came up with that. We got a woo-woo.

I like that. I like that. Can we? Yeah. That's woo-woo. Anyways, so you hadn't woo-wooed yet. Anyways, in this particular weekend, this guy who Rumor was into was in town-ish, right? He was like 30 miles away.

He had been traveling. And Rumor was bummed because he's close and he hadn't reached out. It was like, you know he's there. Case in point, emotionally unavailable case in point emotionally unavailable yeah emotionally unavailable and so rumor in this in this particular weekend we hung a lot this week that we had a great weekend as friends and and we were kind of there there for each other but like you were bummed because this guy wasn't reaching out so in this weekend and correct me if i'm wrong all you wanted was this particular guy to like hey babe i'm in the area let's I don't know let's get together or do something right and he had not done that

you know but by the way I'm going to say this because I know where you're going with this this had nothing to do with the advice that I gave I don't agree our our friend Jenny well she disagrees anyways you people people there were four let me just preface this there were four there were four other women. There were four other women there. And I think they're all in the same boat. That were all saying the exact same thing as me. So it's not like I was saying, yeah, right or back, right or back.

I think you were all wrong. And maybe our listeners at home can weigh in. Anyway, so I reach out to this girl. I reach out to this girl. Hey, what's up? Blah, blah, blah. Casual. And then she's like, yeah, I'm out of town for the summer.

And I'm like, well, when you're back in town, let's get together. And so great. And then you brought up. Oh, that great setup. And then I send. The option at that point is just to leave it. So then at that point, I send her a message. And I say, well, if you ever want to like,

you know, text, you know, here's my number. And my thought thinking, there's nothing sometimes more fun than a long distance kind of texting FaceTime relationship. It happens over time and maybe you get to know someone and it's kind of this fun. You can't see them. And so I'm thinking like, that'd be fun with this person. You know? So I throw that out there and she like heart messages it or something. I don't know. That's weak by the way. I just want to say the heart message. This happened to me recently. I heard a lot of, a lot of women do not like the double tap heart message. I don't mind it if it's followed up. I know we have a story, but this happened to me recently and I was very upset about it because I think it's weak.

happened to me recently and I was very upset about it because I think it's weak. Why? Well, especially if you're like sending a flirty text or like maybe a cute photo. Because it's so easy? But then no response after. I think it's fine to do. I do. I get a lot of complaints about that. I get the don't heart message me. Well, unless you're going to follow it up. It's just someone who's very comfortable with people. Like, yes, because it's sometimes it's like, it's just double tapping. Yes. Like, I'll do it with my friends, my sisters. I would do that with you. But I think that if you're.

It leaves a little bit open. Is it an acknowledgement or do you agree? It's like, that's the question I think people have. Like, are you just acknowledging my message or are you saying yes? It's the least amount of effort you can possibly make. Like from where we've gotten back in the day where we were writing love notes and calling people all the time and now it's two-word text messages, the least you can do. Okay, fair enough. So this person gives us the least amount of effort to my response of, here's my number, shoot me a text if you want, right? I tell rumor this story. She's

like, oh, this is great. I approve of this person. I like this combination. We'll see where it goes. And I'm like, great. So we're hanging out. Meanwhile, rumor is now wishing Mr. X would reach out. Mr. X. Whatever, I don't know. Yeah, I like that. Mr. X. And so rumor and I are like hanging out. And I'm being honest. I'm like, I really and I are like hanging out and I'm being honest. I'm like, I really wish this person would text me. You know, like I'm excited about this person. My friend approves. I'm like, this is great.

You know, like. Didn't you have another thing that you wanted to write her though? I don't know. I think you did. Here's what I said to Ruma. Here's what I said to Ruma. I was like, I go, I would love,

I just said, I wish she, like I kind of would love this. And so Ror's advice was, you know what? Women love like guys who go after what they want. So like, you know what? Send her this message. And then we started crowdsourcing. And so I'm like sending her messages and she was responding. Right. But like, she's of town. And I don't know exactly what I sent her. But my point was, here I am. And she had never texted you at this point?

No, she has been responding, right? But she hadn't used the number. She hadn't used the number. She's not using the number. And so it was clear in the messages that I'm making overtures. And she was responding, but not really diving in or like, you know what I'm saying? Like not asking a lot of follow-up questions. She did it first, you know, but after like, here's my number, it was kind of just responding. But my point is I'm getting advice

from someone who this weekend, all she wanted was a guy to make the, take the initiative. And so I was getting the advice from a friend who just wanted a guy to reach out. And I'm here saying, I just want to reach out to this girl. And rumor's like, you should definitely do this. Yeah, because by the way, irregardless of her response, you're showing her, you're showing up. So I think. No, I agree. I think either she could have, because by the way, she could have responded either way. It really could have gone either way. Eventually she went dark. I don't think she could have, because by the way, she could have responded either way. It really could have gone either way.

Eventually she went dark. I don't think you would have gone out anyways. Like, I don't think that ruined it, just to be honest. I, yeah. I don't know.

I don't know. If she hadn't texted you. I, I don't think that she would have gone out with you either. Yeah. So, ever. It's not rumors.

And it's only because I, Okay. Met someone who knows her. And then, I know a little bit more about her now. I don't think it would have happened. Yeah, you dodged a bullet. Yeah.

The universe is always working for you that way. Trust and believe. I want to know more offline. Okay. Uh-oh. Have you been dating anyone recently? Sure. You said you DTR'd last night.

Yeah, tell me, tell me, tell me. I love this game. I had been hanging out with this person for a while. How long was a while? A few months, off and on. But we had DTR'd it a few times. And the DTR was like... How do you DTR it a few times?

Well, early on, this person is a bit younger than me whatever like young enough to like i i've said i really want to be a dad right i know this i want and i want to be in a relationship and i'm getting the point my life i want to be a father and so like i'm not i don't i'm not going to rust into a relationship just to have a kid so don't you find it counterintuitive to date young women? Yes. I'm just, I'm asking this because. I don't necessarily, but I hang, I've hung out with. And so if I meet someone and like, you seem cool and then like, oh, you're how old? And it's like, okay.

And then like, well, you're fun. Like, it's cool. And then the thought of like, well, do you want to like pursue something? And I'm thinking like, I want to be in a relationship where it's at least on the table. That if I meet you and if we were courting and all of a sudden, I know that you want to have kids. So it's not like, oh, you meet someone, oh, you want to have kids, I want to have kids, let's have a kid right now.

It's like, well, let's see where this goes. But we both know that if it goes the direction we think it could or we hope, that it's on the table. That there's never going to be discussion, I'm not ready to have kids. There's things I want to do. And so that was kind of my emphasis of you're actually really great, but I just know that I want this. I know that if we were to say, let's give this a go

and really commit to this relationship, I want to know that it's an option and it's on the table. And I think it would be unfair to me to expect that. And I don't think you're in a position to even say whether you do or you don't. You've said that you're not, and I totally get that. Even in a year and a half, it's reasonable. Well, that's what's crazy that I found about dating recently

since I turned 30. And I know everyone's going to say you're 30, you're so young, whatever. I want to be a mom. And I think it's really different. And I found it really interesting that nowadays when I am interested in someone that you have to have those kind of conversations kind of early on if it's someone that you feel like you could potentially be serious about in the long run. And, but it's weird. And so I've been trying to navigate that as well, trying to figure out, we just started hanging out, but I feel like I don't want to waste time with someone that that's not even an option for them. for them. So how do you, how would, as a man, like how would you be the most comfortable to bring up that conversation or for a girl to bring up that conversation and say, yeah, and say, hey, look, I know that we just started seeing each other, but this is, and this is probably too

early to have this conversation, but I just want you to know where I'm at. That's a great question too, because I weirdly feel very comfortable saying this. And I don't know if it's because as a guy, I just women have a maternal more women than men have a maternal instinct not not all but like you I hear a lot of my women friends talk about that I don't hear it as from those guys much and so because I do I feel comfortable bringing it up like I'm not a I do you as a woman do you feel like you're more worried that guy's gonna have an adverse response to like I'm not ready to have kids or a little bit I think I think that well mostly because a lot of the people that I've met or talked to

recently even just guy friends have been like even girlfriends I have when I talk about wanting to be a mom they just are like oh my god God, no way. Not for a while. So I guess my question is, I guess fear of failure, right? The same concept. Exactly. It's the same thing. I don't want to tell you because, or I'm going, oh, maybe this will make you not want to hang out with me. Isn't that funny that we do that so much though? We're always afraid to find out the answer. I get a lot of questions of Nick. It's like, well, how should I say this? Or what should I do? You should just say it. You should just literally be honest because if they're not going to like your answer, then bye. Because also trust your gut because your gut's probably

telling you they aren't ready or they don't want it. And you're afraid of their answer. And so you don't ask their question and you keep pretending you just, or you talk around it. Yeah. But if you really want to have kids and a guy doesn't want to have kids, then he's... And it's counterintuitive because if the end goal really is that, yeah, you want to find someone to have kids with, then you're just delaying the inevitable and also taking up space for a person who might want that with you to come in. Because, oh, I actually have... interesting analogy or metaphor for this that I was thinking about, about fear that I'm curious if you have the same thing for. I feel like in the past I've sometimes stayed in relationships longer than I needed to out of this, A, fear of either, it's like you're comfortable.

And I have a couple of friends who are dealing with this right now too. You get comfortable, the idea of then not having someone, even if you know that they're not right for you, becomes you don't want to shut that door completely. And so I was thinking about it the other day. And it's like, we talked about this when you go to the movies and you eat too much candy. Or for me, I was thinking about it like you have this cake in your house, right?

And it's a decent cake. It's not your favorite cake, but because you want sweets, you're going to eat it. And then you realize that you don't need this cake anymore and that it's not good for you. And so you throw it in the garbage. Mind you, there's nothing else in the garbage, so it's not gross. And so in your mind, you're like, well, I can still have it if I really want it. I can still have it. Have you ever done that?

No, I've not. But, you know, it makes me think of that. And you go, I can still have it even though I've kind of thrown it away and put it away. But the truth is you can take it out just as easily if it's just in the garbage and it's clean. Yeah, we do it all the time. Yeah, we do it all the time. But until you really put ketchup and throw other stuff in there, you're not really done. And I feel like I can get myself to that point where I throw it away.

But then it's like that last moment of going, oh, do I really want to shut the door on this? Well, it's called boredom, too, because this person I DTR'd with or woo-wooed with. Sorry, we're going to go with woo-woo. Either one. I accept either one. I like woo-woo because it's different. You should make shirts. Yeah.

Yeah. We're coming up with phrases. And so, we're going to get, yeah, we're, we're, we're coming up with phrases and so then we're going to have like swag. It's a whole thing. I like it.

We're working on. Rumor. Yeah, because it's called boredom because I'm certain, I am certain this person I wooed with, we will hang out again. Yeah.

Because we both enjoy each other's company and then unless I meet someone or she does, like. Yeah, but I feel like that. Like someone will reach out to someone and we'll like run enjoy each other's company. And unless I meet someone or she does, someone will reach out to someone and we'll run into each other and we'll hang out and then we'll get in this rhythm and we'll have to DTR again. That's what you're talking about though, right? Kind of, but this is also a different kind of woo-woo.

This is more like spiritual woo-woo that I've been thinking about and someone told me the other day. You're giving the universe, and this is only if you subscribe to this kind of thought. So if you don't, it's fine. That you're giving the universe mixed messages. So if we're both saying we both want to have kids, right? But then we continue either staying with someone who we know doesn't want that just because out of boredom or because of out of comfortability. Then we're saying, oh, this is something I want,

but this is what I'm staying in. True. You're not manifesting your reality. Yeah, you're not putting, like you're taking up so much energy on something that's not going to be in effort of what you want. I totally buy that. I mean, I'm not like an overly spiritual person, but I absolutely believe in manifesting the world

and curating the world that you want to create. And if you are doing things counterintuitive, and I know I'm a hypocrite with some of the things. We all do this. Absolutely. We all do it. But like the more you can, your actions reflect things that you say you want, and you're putting yourself in positions to do those things, things will happen. It's inevitable. And when I do a good job of that, things will happen. It's inevitable.

And when I do a good job at that, things happen. It's sometimes just hard to do because in between all that is the fear of being alone, the fear of failure, or boredom seeps in, and it's just a motherfucker. Well, yeah, and it's not fun to go from hanging out with someone all the time and you have a new thing that's exciting and fun to just going back out with someone all the time and you have a new thing that's exciting and fun to just going back to being single again. But the truth is, is I don't want to

spend energy and expend time with someone that A, doesn't want the same things as me and B, can't communicate about it. I think communication is so huge. Very much so. In anything. I know this is an annoying question, but how do you guys feel about the rumors that everyone's always talking about you guys dating? That we're dating?

Yeah. I mean, it was funny when that rumor posted a picture. It was actually that weekend yeah we were hanging out Nick was like I have to write friend on this picture so that people know

that we're friends and I was like no well yes Rumor rolls her eyes at me and listen here's the thing is that when it comes to

whatever the notoriety I have in public you know talking about like I kissed a guy more than anything and like I do a I do Talking about, I kissed a guy. More than anything.

I do a TV show. I'm on Dance with the Bachelor or whatever. Any interview I do, more than anything else, I'm most known for my dating life. The curiosity that people have mostly about me is who I'm dating or who I'm not. I'm just aware of that.

And so, yeah. And when Rum you know, rumor posts this picture and it was like a cute photo of us or whatever and what, and yeah, there's the photo. Here we are. And I'm like, you got to put something about friends. And remember, like kind of rumor rolls her eyes at me. And then she, she posts it. And then like 10 minutes later, you messaged me kind of like, oh, I get it. You absolutely did. And you changed something because it was like you weren't even expecting it. Yeah, but at the end of the day, also, like who cares? Totally. Who the fuck cares?

I don't really care. And listen, someone thinking that we're dating is the least of my concerns. It's just more, it's just more, I don't like, yeah. I was taking personal offense i was like oh god god forbid you're dating me nick oh my god no you look great i had no no i knew that you would but i just like i don't like having to set the record straight all the time about my dating life yeah but who cares anyways you you had a response to it. You definitely were like, oh shit, I didn't realize that when it comes to the people who pay attention to me, very much care about if I'm dating someone.

Well, they're just vicious. I'll do an interview about natural habits. They're like, are you dating? They're like, yeah, we'll ask your questions, blah, blah, blah. By the way, are you dating anyone? No, seriously. By the way, that's happened to me. Anytime I get photographs standing next to a man,

I'm immediately dating them. I've been linked to six people that I've never dated that are my friends. I'm fine with it, but I'm just... And I probably am a little too... Hypersensitive? Not sensitive is not the word, but I'm just cautious of it.

I'm just... And of it i'm just and sometimes it is like i'm just more like hey just so you know like i don't think people think about it if they're gonna like it's more like do you i don't know like i'm sensitive to you definitely had a reaction of surprise of how many people commented on it yeah i was like what were you good what did you think was going to happen? Because also— And I'm fine with it. If I'm going to post something like this, if it's actually going to be someone I'm dating, I'm probably not going to post it. Yeah.

Until it's a thing. But people—yes, I'm the same way. But especially people in Bachelor world, they're like, hey, guess what? I'm dating as soon as they can. Yeah, but I would have said something, Ben, like, this is my love. I know that. My life. My inspiration.

I get that. She's grown up in the public eye. She knows, right? She's used to it. I get that, but even rumor admitted in just the bachelor world is a little bit different. It's so focused on who you're dating well i was less that's all i mean i had less of a reaction to this than when you told me when we were first hanging out and people knew way before we ever posted a picture or were

seen together that you were like oh yeah because i did a story at this place and they watched that you were at the same place that they know we're hanging out. And I was like, wow, that's intense. Yeah, there were people DMing us. They're like, are you hanging out with Rumor Willis? And cryptically, and I was just like, this happens. I have people watching who I follow.

See, I just want to hire those people to start investigating people that I want to date. I'm like, can you do this for me? Yeah, there's probably a market out there. I did want to get your opinion. I recently, I get a lot of questions about, I'm dating, my friend is dating this guy. He's terrible. I recently was hanging out with this friend who told me this story about someone they dated and they weren't like they weren't talking bad but they were being honest about this person they were dating that was sound it sounded to me like they were kind of defending him but this person sounded like a nightmare yeah a true true nightmare a manipulative guy who like the classic guy who overloves and infuses like his love for you and

I'm obsessed but in between that is like shady and does you know like that guy who is like over promises and then like I love you so much but then also like disappears sometimes but like it's whatever a lot of that I feel like the people listening, we all met this guy. Everyone has. This guy is also beautiful. He's handsome. Well, I feel like those two kind of go hand in hand. And so this person is telling me this story. And I'm just like, Jesus, right? And now this person went from one relationship to another

and is now in an engagement with another person. And I know who they're engaged to. I don't know. I mean, I know, like I, I ran into them, whatever. And there was this thought of like, like what's the right thing to do? Like in that situation, because when I always, when I get asked questions about,

should I tell my friend? It's never, it's a hard position to be in if you don't like your friend's boyfriend or girlfriend because they're never going to believe you and you're risking their friendship. But it's tough because, again, that should be your number one red flag, by the way. If the people that you love and trust most in your life

don't like this person. I feel like a lot of people don't believe them, right? They don't. Well, but it's also, I think, about being in denial. Like what you were saying about trusting your gut. I have dated so many people where inherently I knew. Your gut doesn't lie. I knew that it was not right.

But because I wanted, there was something about it that I liked, I kept myself in denial. I literally, I would never do this. But like to that point, I was, we were talking, I saw this person. I literally thought to myself, what if in this situation, you walk up to this person at the bar and you walk up to him and say, hey, listen, you don't know me, but I know the person you're with. And you're going to hate me for saying this. And I want to apologize in advance, but I know they're really bad news. And all I ask for you, and even though you're shocked, is to, what does your gut tell you? Think about what I'm saying. And if any part of what I'm saying, your gut hears it. You can't do it as a stranger.

I wonder if a stranger... You can't do it as a stranger. I would never do that. But I always get curious. It's not the right thing to do, but what if you did that? What if you knew someone was bad news and then you knew they were with someone

you didn't know? I would talk to their friend. You would have to go up to their friend. But then it's another person. You're like, it's third party. Yeah, but so, okay, I have a story. I have a perfect story. And I don't think either party will worry about me saying this.

I had a boyfriend and my sisters did not like him at all. And I feel fine telling the story because he and I are actually great friends now. And we laugh about this. So we had a very up and down kind of tumultuous relationship. It was a lot of fun. I have a lot of love for him still. But my sisters just did not like him at all. And so we were going to, we were driving up to Palm Springs for Valentine's Day.

And I pick up the phone in the car and it's my sister. And she goes, and she was like, hey, Ru, happy Valentine's Day. Have you broken up with him yet? Out of nowhere? You didn't know she didn't like him at the time? Oh, no, I knew that she didn't like him. You didn't, okay. I absolutely knew. She was like, have you broken up with him yet?

And I said, hey, Scout, you're on speaker. Say hi to blah, blah, blah. And she goes, hi, Scout. And she goes, hi, blah. And then just hangs up. And it was so good. I was horrified. And I was just like, oh, my God, oh, my God.

Were you thinking about breaking up with him at this point? I don't know. We broke up and kind of got back together multiple times. But, you know, I think it's really important to – and it's tough saying this, but I don't know. I had this the other day. I was dating someone like last year maybe. And I told my friend and my guy friend and he goes oh yeah and then I

told him a few months later that I broke up with him and he goes oh yeah he was garbage I didn't want to say anything and I said why wouldn't you tell me that happened to me with my parents in my first engagement after I got cheated on and my parents I always I love them because they're they they they were amazing parents and they were very strict growing up. But part of it is because I had the younger siblings and once I got it as an adulthood, they like let me be an adult. And so I'm dating her and then we break up and if they find out she cheated on me, I get engaged. And after that, they're like, you know, they just kind of like mentioned other things that like kind of they observed. They didn't

really like, you know, she did this and it's always seemed a little weird and blah blah blah and i'm like this is really good information i would have appreciated well we didn't we knew you really liked her and blah blah it's like no way tell me it's tough though i also do wonder when my parents say that though and in fairness to my parents had they told me in the moment, how would I have reacted? Because after the relationship ends, right? And I'm hurt and that person has wronged me and I want to find reasons to hate them and I want to find reasons to be mad. It's easy to be like, well, then why didn't you tell me? I've totally would have listened to you and I would have been blah, blah, blah. But I honestly, when I really think back, would I have? Would I have been mad at my parents, what I have made excuses for them and say, well, you just, you like, you liked my,

my other girlfriend and you're, you know, like, I think that happens a lot too. You're not giving her a chance or you don't understand her. I think that there's, um, a way to do it in a loving manner. That's not about telling someone what to do. And I think that there's a big difference because I've been with girlfriends where I go, you should do this. Fuck him. You should break up with him, whatever. And I think instead coming at it from a point

of not giving advice and just saying, hey, I just heard this stuff. You can do whatever you want. It's your life. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I just want you to be aware of this information so that you can make the best choice for you. And I think if you come at it that way, as opposed to, oh yeah, sweet sisters, I look like I'm terrified in that photo. Like a deer in the headlights terrified.

A little Winona Ryder in that. Yeah, you're like. I look so scared. Really concerned. Like really terrified of the photographer. It's a blue steel modeling look. My sweet sisters, I love them. But you know what I mean? I get what you're saying. Yeah. It's kind of like

drop, well, you know, again, I wouldn't, that scenario at the bar, but it's kind of like that, hey, I'm just, and that's why I wonder sometimes if it's from a stranger. No way. Because it's like, I'm just letting you know that here's a situation. And it's more like, if you want to think I'm crazy, it's fine. But it's more, it's that whole like

gut feeling. Yeah. But then the person. Because I think you always know deep down. I think the problem is then the person is going to go, this guy just told me this crazy stuff. And it will be less concentrated on what you actually said and more on that some weirdo stranger just was talking shit about you. I would never do that, but I wonder if, but in this situation, here's this person is over the moon with this person who might be a nightmare. And there's a good chance this guy will mask it long enough.

Like the person who told me the story, I'm thinking my only takeaway this whole thing is, thank God it ended before you were going to get engaged. Cause they were like, it abruptly ended right before like they were picking out rings, whatever. And then a month later he's engaged to someone else, kind of crazy shit like that. Right. And I'm only thinking, thank God, like my only takeaway of hearing your story is you, wow, you lucked out. Now the new person might not be so lucky. They might like follow through, get married,

even have a kid. And then the nightmare comes out because these people, the manipulation, the narcissist. I still think it can't be a stranger. I realize- I'm not saying it's going to be a stranger. Someone actually did this to me the other day. I was talking about someone that I was kind of interested in

that I had a crush on. And they said, look, I don't want to burst your bubble, but because you're my friend and I love you, I just want you to be aware that I know some information about this person that they did this, this, and this, and that's not okay. But again, I really think it's about removing any personal desire and any stake you have in the game. And you have to tell the information in a way that's not giving advice and just allow that person to do whatever they're going to do. I totally agree.

I kind of did it on Paradise with Amanda with Josh and thinking back. And to Ashley I, didn't you? Different though. I love Jared. I think Jared was great. They were both friends.

On Paradise, it was Amanda was asking me about Josh and I didn't have a good. I think Jared was great. They were both friends. On Paradise, it was Amanda was asking me about Josh. And I didn't have a good opinion of Josh at the time. And my answer to her was, at all. And so, granted, Amanda and I went on a date. We weren't really vibing each other. I mean, I was waiting for Jen. But either way, there was this potential thought of,

I'm only saying this because I'm biased. Everyone's thinking you picked Josh over me, so I don't want to come. So I said, listen, she asked me, here's my opinion, but like, you have to form your own, but I'm telling you this. So like, ask the right questions and pay attention to the answers. I think that is important too. If you're going to let someone know, because I will say you're saying that, and I'm really sometimes self-conscious about my reputation too, especially in Bachelor Nation of being the villain. I get really insecure about, are there some bullshit stories out? You're talking about, not that I care about the kissing a guy,

but in the media. So I always want someone to give me, I know who I am and my genuine intentions. If you get warned by someone and your gut's telling you something that they might be right, you've got to ask questions. When people give you answers, you should really listen to their answers. If they sound reasonable, you know when it's an excuse. I want to talk about this because I'm curious to know what you think about in terms of communication in a relationship.

Say I'm dating someone and it's, I don't know, we've been together three to six months, right? And you came up to me and you said, Ru, I heard some stuff about this guy that you're seeing. Ed, Ru, I heard some stuff about this guy that you're seeing. For me, at least the goal and what I'm trying to work towards, I haven't gotten there yet because I'm still working on my own stuff. I would like to be in a relationship and be confident enough in the value of myself to go to the person I'm dating and say, hey, I heard some stuff and I don't want to be blaming but this came up can you tell me your perspective or can you kind of give me your side of the story as to what happened

and I think in so many relationships the lack of communication and honesty and just allowing yourself to be vulnerable with what you want, with what works for you and your boundaries can be so. Totally. I also think if you do get asked this question, it's like a red flag for me, if I'm addressing something with someone is someone who immediately gets defensive. Exactly. And snaps back and then immediately snaps at like the, who the room, like the, the rumors coming from. Because like if you,

if there is a rumor out there about you, it's coming from somewhere. It might be completely off base. There might be so many layers of things that are out of context, but like you should then be able to explain it without like, listen, I don't know where this is coming from or why that person thought that, you know,

but let me just explain it to you. It's fine. That response is very calming. Someone's like, well, that's bullshit. That person's fucked. If I hear that, I immediately, I'm like, whoa. Whoa, what's up? Why is that a trigger?

And so I think if you're not defensive because sometimes the mistake people make is that fear of like being found out about being found out even if it's not true like some people i don't know if that's always the case i think some people do get defensive but i think if you do get very defensive very quickly and even if the rumors are false you look guilty but by way, even if you've done something bad, say, say, you know, but say I was dating someone and you found out that they had a girlfriend that they cheated on. If I'm dating you, I would so much rather you came. And if I said, Hey, this is what I heard. And you said, yeah, you know what? I was in a situation and I cheated on her. I'm really ashamed. Yeah. And I'm bummed that I did that.

But I wish I would have told you. I didn't know if we were, I was at the place to tell you that. And that's why I wish I could have told you. Maybe I should have told you sooner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

I would so much prefer that than some sort of, because I'm willing to, I'm not coming from a place of judgment. I would so much, I'm going to be more judgmental if you lie to me about it and if you kind of come from this defensive place than if you just say, yeah, you know what? I'm a human being in my 20s or whatever it was or I made bad decisions because we all have. Oh, totally.

I have found that when it comes to my dating life, I feel way more comfortable around people who early on admit mistakes and talk about shit they've done or whatever and just kind of owning it and talk about it as a way of growth, I get really nervous around the people who are very judgmental. And are so perfect. And come across like, well, I would never do that. And they're just very critical of everyone else because either A, they haven't experienced life or B. They've done it all. They've done it all. And they're so on critical of everyone else because either A, they haven't experienced life or B. They've done it all.

They've done it all and they're so like on kind of keeping this image of who they are. Because no one really is and it's just like that person makes me uncomfortable. Because then it's just like, and I'm not talking about anything like real. No, of course. But just everyone has their shit. You know, everyone's been selfish and everyone's made mistakes. Everyone's lied at some point. Everyone's not been their best self. Everyone's been a bad boyfriend or girlfriend at some point to someone. And if you haven't, that makes me really nervous that if you can't ever

say, well, I've never, I dated this person. I wasn't like, I was a shitty boyfriend at one point. And then you say, there's a lack, you know what it is? It's because you realize there's a lack of unawareness of, or there's a lack of unawareness or there's a lack of self-awareness and a lack of self-reflection. And I think because that's something that I'm working on so hard right now in my life about just taking responsibility for myself, for my actions, for my feelings. And that when I see someone that isn't up to that same level as me, I'm trying not, I don't judge it that you're not there, but I do want to find someone to be with that is interested in self-awareness, self-reflection, vulnerability, willing to admit their mistakes,

being okay with setting up boundaries with each other and having that not be bad. How do you go about doing that? Because we both kind of admit maybe that we're not good at the pre-selection process. Nope. We're really good at talking about. Yeah. You're like, hey, listen, if I were outside of my body, I'd give myself great advice.

I could do it. I'd give myself great advice. I think for me the biggest thing in moving forward is being really honest about where I'm at and coming in. And I did this a little bit with the last person I was seeing where I really tried to be vulnerable and honest and not be afraid to express myself. And they just weren't willing to, or were not able to kind of do the same, which is totally fine. But I think, yeah, coming at it and saying, hey, this is, I know that this is early to have this conversation, but I'm really interested in being a mom. And that's something that I really want. And these are, this is kind of what I'm looking for. And then instead of also letting something fester. So if

we had something and I didn't like something that you said, instead of waiting a week to talk to you about it in a very non-reactive way, immediately just saying, you know what, when you said that, immediately just saying, you know what? When you said that, that kind of brought up this thing in me and made me feel not good. And I know that it actually probably has nothing to do with you or what you said and my own stuff and my own thing that I'm making up in my mind, but I just wanted you to know or whatever.

So that you're not holding this resentment towards someone and letting it kind of fester and become this thing totally i mean i i people do a lot of time like how what how should i bring it up or whatever i do appreciate when i had the woo-woo the relationship last night uh that person was like hey can we talk yeah and it was like i knew it was coming and i really appreciated this person's maturity about just being very like, hey, listen, I know how you feel, but I'm just getting to a point where why should we? And I'm like, okay, yeah, nothing's changed on my end, just so I'm not going to lie to you. And I'd still honestly like to keep hanging out with you, but you're probably, but like, it was a very, she knew what she wanted and she stuck to her guns.

I really respected that. It would have been very easy for me to be like, God damn it, she's, you know, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm at one point in my life and she's at another. Yeah, absolutely. And that matters. So many people are afraid to bring it up, you know, for the reasons we talked about, afraid of the answer.

Oh, and that's funny. When we had Tayshia on and I kind of said like you don't don't go on a first date and feel like you have to dump all your shit absolutely but it's never too early if in your gut there's something you want to talk about and if for some reason you want to talk about it then fine but i don't think you people should do it as a consideration for the other person. There's a difference between oversharing. Or trauma bonding or talking about all the horrible things. Trauma bonding.

It's a thing. Me too. Oh, my God, yes. Yeah, I do think that there's a line. And also what I've realized is in our culture or maybe just this generation, we've rushed so into, let's just be in a relationship. Let's just be together as opposed to, you know what? I would like to take three months, maybe say, or maybe not three months. And you can still do physical things, whatever, or take a month, I don't know, whatever, to really decide if I actually want to be with you.

I think people are doing it all wrong, and I'm part of this problem. Me too. Is that either people are rushing into it, or they're just dragging it out. Dragging it out. There's no like, I'm sending this, I like you. I'm not saying anything more than that but let's let's give it a shot with no expectations let's let's take it slow but what they do is either they're go gung-ho and like let's talk about marriage or they're like I don't want let's

I'm not yeah like I have I have a crush I have a crush on this talk about it let's just hang out like and then it gets very confusing you don't know where this person stands. And yeah. I have a new crush. And I feel like I want to have a conversation with him and be like, listen, I'm really attracted to you. But I don't necessarily want to start anything. I would like to maybe just take some time and hang out with you and get to know you as a friend and see if there's anything there. Why don't you say that? Well, I think I might. You should. I think that

would work on every guy. You know, and be like, listen, I don't want to rush into a relationship or start dating, but I would really just like to get to know you as a friend and see if I even like you that way. Because I think I was, I have an amazing story actually of a perfect example of amazing direct communication. I went on a date with a guy and it was amazing and had so much fun, great conversation. I wrote him a couple of days later, seeing if you wanted to go to dinner. Cause I'm forward like that. And I don't, why do we have to call that forward? Well, I don't know. That's another story. I think it's great. So he writes me and he says, hey, you know what? I would love to go to dinner.

I just want to be forward or upfront and let you know that I am not in a place to have a relationship right now, but I think you're incredible and I I loved our conversations. And I would really like to be friends with you. And at first I was like, oh, man, this sucks. But then I realized how grateful I was. Because then I'm not sitting there wondering every time we hang out, is this going to be a thing? Is this not? And that kind of honest communication, now we have an incredible friendship.

And he's one of my closest friends. There's an ego thing that first hurts. Yeah. And then there's a freedom in knowing. Yeah, but someone to say, be so direct about it. Because also I feel like sometimes, I've done this in the past, and I'm sure you have too, where you hear someone say, yeah, I'm not interested in having a relationship.

And instead of hearing them and respecting that, you take it as a challenge. Oh, my God. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'm not interested in having a relationship. And instead of hearing them and respecting that, you take it as a challenge. Oh my God. And you're like, oh yeah, I got this. Really? Well, challenge accepted. Yeah. Okay, let's do this.

Game of Thrones style. I'm ready. No, 100%. That's literally my- Bring me my dragons. Yeah. I'm like, okay, you want to see my dragons? I love when you're like, you've probably done this

like since I was 16. Well, I know, but I don't want to speak my dragons? I love when you're like, you've probably done this since I was 16. Well, I know, but I don't want to speak for anyone. I just feel like. Yes. I think we all, like anyone who likes it, yes, it's a challenge. It's for sure. I will just say before we get to questions with fans, I have never had a woman be direct with her feelings,

even if I didn't necessarily feel the same way and she did it in a way that was very like a matter of fact just like this is what I want and I'm not like being crazy it was just very kind of like pragmatic and never not found that very attractive and even if I wasn't like I didn't think I necessarily wanted to date her I was like it made me at least give me a moment of pause I'm like maybe I do because that was really sexy. This idea of, and again, it's not, you know, Rashad, we talked about when you asked the question, do you care about me at all?

No, it's like, hey, buddy, I just want you to know how I feel. I'm just stating, speaking my truth. And like you have your own decision to make, but I am confident and comfortable letting you know how I feel, knowing that you might not feel the same way. But I'm also letting you know what I want. And if you don't, then I'm prepared and willing to walk away. Well, see, that's the crux of it right there.

You have to be able to walk away. Exactly. And I think that's where so much fear comes from. And I can definitely say I have fear of that myself or have in the past up until this point that has kept me in things or kept me from speaking my truth because I was so afraid of being rejected or abandoned for asking for what I wanted and for asking to be valued with what I felt like I deserved. And because of that, I ended up in relationships

where I was not treated as well as I should. And I felt resentful of that person because my needs weren't being met, but because I wasn't asking for what I wanted. And in the same way that that girl did, coming at it from a place of just saying, it shows a level of confidence and a value for yourself. So sexy.

So hot. Exactly. That's so sexy because you're not, to be able to walk away from someone, I think is such a huge strength because it shows that you're. They demand your respect. And I think that's just really. And to be valued. Yeah.

And to value their time. I will say, since doing questions with Nick in this podcast, my most surprising takeaway has been, and I see it more with women, that women seem to be more fixated on, does he like me more than do I like him? I like him. Absolutely. And it blows my mind. And I think more women and guys should really focus on,

if they like a guy, great. I mean, when we're excited about someone, we're vulnerable. So that's natural that you're worried that they like him. But really think about, before you vest all this time and trying to get him to like you, how much do you like him? And be specific about, is he meeting your needs that you've set for yourself? Well, I want X, Y, and Z. I'm worth X, Y, and Z. I demand this. And he only does like X. But that's okay because he's doing X really well. He's really well. He's really good. And I like him, but like, he's not doing Y and Z or M or Q. And it's like, we keep making excuses. Well, I don't know if I really want that right now. And also I realized too, like if you're dating guys who were, say, treating you at like a two,

and then suddenly you date a guy that treats you at a five, you're like, but he's doing this and this that this person didn't do. You're like, it's still a five. It's still a five. And that's what I've realized recently. And I was like, wow, I value myself this little that I'm willing to accept this little amount of whatever. It's hard to do. But I think the more people, and especially the women listening out there, the more you

can just figure out what you want. And out of fear of him not wanting it the same way, asserting what you want, you will attract a lot. I mean. You will attract men who will step up to that level and get rid of the guys who are not worth your time. Or just not. Maybe they're just not ready.

Maybe they will come around and you might feel differently when they do and probably will. Yeah. So, all right. Well, let's do a few questions with fans. Sexy questions? Yeah, all questions are sexy. The more you know.

Here's some sexy questions with Nick. How are you today? What's going on? Hi, Emmy. Hi. This is Rumor. Hi. Hi.

What's your question? How can we help? It's sort of a question. It's actually for Nicholas. I'm saying his whole name because I'm annoyed with him, but that's okay. Why are you annoyed with me? I'm a fan, not a stan, and I just don't agree with some of the things. I've watched, I mean, I've listened to every episode of yours.

Thank you. But I don't agree with a lot of the things you say, but I still listen because it's entertaining. Well, I appreciate that. Well, this podcast is meant to be conversational. And this is not meant for everyone to agree with me. Can I ask, do you disagree with things that he, his general belief system or just more questions?

Well, I just don't, I don't know. Like the Demi episode, like boiled my blood. Why? And know that from my comment on Podbean. But anyway, so you had said in one of your episodes that you wanted to talk to people that are different. And I am different. I'm actually trans. And one of the things that I have a problem with, well, number one, I have a very strong personality.

So that's not always the best when I'm dating. But I also have had one of the best transitions I've ever heard of. My friends, my family, my coworkers all support me. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been great. But my strong personality comes in because, you know, you guys, I mean, like cisgender, heterosexual men, they think that they can say stuff to me that is like, that I will believe. So stuff like, oh, do you want to come over and watch a movie? Well, it's too intense. I'm not stupid.

I know that that's not what you want to do. So, one of my, I guess my main question is, as a heterosexual, well, I think that you're probably a little bent. What's bent mean? You better get it, girl. We talked about it earlier. What's bent mean? She's like, you're bent. What?

Hi, Rochelle. I love Rochelle. I was more excited to talk to her. That's great. Can're Ben. What? Hi, Rochelle. I love Rochelle. I was more excited to talk to her. That's great. Can I tell you something? I think having a strong personality is incredible. And I struggle with this, too, because I'm very outspoken. I'm very forward. I've never really learned how to play those coy games with boys where I'm like,

oh, my God, I'm not going to text you for three days. I don't understand that. If I like you, I'm very kind of maybe even aggressive sometimes. And Nick and I actually were just talking about this. I think what's important, and especially because you said you have such an incredible support system, is realizing that men that are not going to value you for the strong personality and incredible woman that you are have no business with getting any of your energy, truly. And allowing and holding that value for yourself that the people in your life that love you and that you have for yourself will only bring better people who are willing to meet you at your level and that you don't have to lower yourself for. You know what I mean? That's just my two cents.

So I guess my main question for Nicholas, because I'm not calling him Nick, I'm still pissed off, is... Okay. It's fine. What is your... You specifically, you date only cisgender women, correct? I apologize for my ignorance because I don't know the nomenclature.

When you say cisgender, it means like... Straight women. Yeah like straight women. Straight women. Why do you got to get mad at me for admitting my ignorance? A woman explained to him. Thank you.

Cisgender is basically the opposite of transgender. Okay. So cisgender means you next feel like you're comfortable with your penis. You don't want to I was going to say your penis. You don't want to change yourself. You can say whatever you want.

You're good with you. You're semi-masculine. You like who you are. Transgender is obviously the opposite. So you only date cisgender women. Is correct yeah that i know of i mean i i mean yes i have never to my knowledge dated a transgender person i mean i only say that because like i know like that's a it's been more of a common topic and you have uh there's people out there and i you hear stories where there's a guy know, a straight cisgender guy made out with a transgender.

And he was like, I didn't know that she wasn't. It wasn't even a negative necessarily comment. But I'm saying to my knowledge, I've not. No one's ever said, oh, by the way, I'm trans or whatever. So I and I don't I've never. Yes. The answer is yes. So my question is, because I can't ask these've never, yes. So the answer is yes. So my question is,

because I can't ask these morons that I talk to, what would be your trepidation dating a trans woman? It's a question. Yeah. Again, I'm going to just admit a lot of ignorance in the topic. I don't, does transgender mean you've done a full transition to, in terms of not necessarily,

not necessarily, you could be a transgender and not have had any bottom surgery and top surgery. There's right. I don't want to speak out of turn, but you're, you're still dang girl. Okay.

Um, so there's three types and women there there's non-operational which means okay i'm just gonna say chicks with a dick okay and then there's um pre-operative which means you're going to get the surgery and then there's post-operative which means you've had the surgery yeah okay so i guess don't ask because i'll i'll come through the screen and choke you what did she say she said don't ask her that's fine that'll come through the screen and choke you. What'd she say? She said, don't ask her. That's fine.

That's your business, girl. I'm not going to ask you. Um, it's so funny and condescending. Well, listen, all I would say to that is again, I'm just like at the risk of criticism, admit that I think myself, who is, I'm a naturally curious person. I don't know if everyone is. And so even as a natural curious person, I still have a lot of ignorance a naturally curious person. I don't know if everyone is. And so even as a naturally curious person,

I still have a lot of ignorance on the topic. I just don't know. I think we've come a long way in our society of becoming more aware of transgenders in general and what any of these means, any of these terms mean. There's still a lot of ignorance out there, but I'm still ignorant in a lot of things. And so I know it can seem offensive and condescending when people do ask questions, but sometimes it's like, I literally don't know the answer. And so if I were to meet a transgender

and they're in the spirit of trying to get to know them and relate to them, there might just be a lot of questions that can come across as ignorant. So there might be that. The answer to your question is, I mean, I'm attracted to women and the women's like, like when I'm having sex with a girl, like their, her body parts, I find attractive. You know, yeah, their body parts, I am not attracted to the male genitalia. And so certainly if someone pre-surgery, I'm not into that. That's not a sexual preference for me. So I wouldn't be into that. I've never experienced a relationship or making out with a transgender person who's post-op, who for all intents and purposes, there's literally no difference between cisgender or transgender. If I'm being totally honest, it would be something I'd have to wrap my brain around.

And it would be a process of trying to like, I can't just say that if I found out I made out with a hooked up with a transgender person that I would be indifferent. And I'm just admitting ignorance that like, or just being honest that like, I've never thought about that. And I do think that the only way for our society to get there is to continue to have conversations and at the risk of people in your position who've already gone through the struggle and listen, people in your position, like people in my position can't relate to like all the bullshit that you have to deal with. And it sucks, but like, there's go, there's this learning process. It's only going to happen over time with more people having

conversations and more people asking questions and more people in your position, you know, willing to be patient with the people who are ignorant. Because otherwise, there's always going to be a lot of confusion. And ignorance is a big problem in our world with all the things that are going on in our culture, whether it's racism or hate on any minority. And the only way to become less ignorant is to have these conversations and talk about it. Because we're afraid of the things that we don't understand. And to only understand it, uh, because we're afraid of the things that we don't understand and, and to only understand that we have to learn. But so that's where I'm at right now. And, and, and this, to be totally honest, I, I would be kind of, it would be a pro it would be, I would, I'd be weird about, I'd feel weirded out about it, you know, if I'm being honest.

So my follow-up question is, would you think that you are gay if you are with a trans woman? I say nay. But I'm not a man. No. But I say no. If I was in that position

and I was dating a trans man I would say no. But see women much more trans men though. Women date trans men more than cisgender men date trans women.

I agree with that. I totally agree with that. I think that people are just, I do think that, like Nick was saying, that I feel even as much as I know, I would like to have more conversations. As much as I know, I would like to have more conversations and I would like to be more informed because I want to be able to have conversations and not feel like I'm walking on eggshells. I want to be able to communicate with you and talk about and talk with you about your sexual preferences, what you want, what you desire as a woman in the same way that I would with any of my girlfriends and not feel like because I'm uneducated that I can't have a conversation with you. And I think in the same way, it might just take a little bit of time to get men on the same page of understanding because, you know, men need a little bit more time than we do to understand things. Yeah. Obviously. Also just an interesting point too, like I wouldn't, to answer your question no i wouldn't if i made out with a transgender person and let's say didn't know or maybe i did know and they were post-op i know i wouldn't i'm not gay so i wouldn't think i was gay it was interesting

too because like on instagram right you know you see a lot of pictures and you're you're seeing more transgender people uh create a platform for and they're on Instagram. And I've come across an Instagram picture and been like, damn. And then you click on this person's picture, and you realize they're a – like, it's a beautiful girl. Yeah, yes. Why do you have to feel weird about – I'm not saying weird. I'm just being honest that there's a thought process. Oh, that's a transgender person.

And then recognizing that I thought that person was attractive as, because it's a, it's a female, it's a woman that I'm looking at and checking out. And so my point of being gay is like, I'm still attracted to the female form. So if the female, if that, you know what I'm saying? So like, and by the way, are you asking this question? I'm just curious because someone said, Oh, if I hook up with you,

then I'm gay or something. Right. Because. Exactly. And I was waiting. I, then I'm gay or something. Right. Exactly. And I was kind of hoping he would say yes. Secretly, like wicked secretly, but I mean, he gave the right answer. Because, by the way, I think that that's at least from my opinion, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think that that's really disrespectful

because that's then not acknowledging how you acknowledge yourself. Which is bullshit. And we talked about this before this episode, before you came on, I think people also are still afraid of the identity and the labels and the fear of being called out by their, their peers or what that means to them. You have to be comfortable with your sexuality. Because like, I know, like, listen, I'm not to sound defiant, I know I'm not gay. So when I did my kissing scene with the guy, I mean, the concept was weird. When I knew I had to do it, it was like, hey, you're going to have this scene with this guy. I was like, well, I've never done this before.

I was definitely a little nervous going in. And then it happened. And I was like, it was nothing to me because I wasn't attracted to him. He was very much a guy. And we looked every bit of a guy. And it was like, there was to me because I wasn't attracted to him. He was very much a guy. And we looked at every bit of a guy. And it was like there was just nothing there, right? And I think when it comes to transgender, I think guys are still wrapping their brain around the concept

of what that means and struggling with self-identifying. I just think that there's an ego block. Yeah, for sure. Even the fact that you have to keep saying, I'm straight, I'm straight, I'm not gay. I know. I'm just saying, just articulating that. No, but I just feel like men feel like they have to be like, no, I'm straight, I'm straight, I'm not gay. I'm just saying, just articulating that. No, but I just feel like men feel like they have to be like, no, I'm straight.

You know what I mean? And that's what makes me get away from it. If I were gay, that would be fine. You know, but I'm saying to like, I don't, I don't feel bad admitting that pre-op, like if a guy's still like, I'm not attracted to that. And if I were to say make out with a transgender person and I was turned on by the fact that they still had a penis, I think that does potentially make someone gay

because they're attracted to the penis. They're attracted to that. I don't know. I don't agree with that. You don't agree? No. No, because when you say that, and I'm not going to attack you

because you gave the right answer before, but when you say that, we are telling you we are trans women. Whatever we have down below is what we have down below for right now. No, I'm not... Go ahead. And you like us, but we have a penis.

Well, the penis isn't going to stay there. No. Well, but by the way, I have certain friends where that is a choice, where they don't want to have bottom surgery. So I think for me, the best, I would say, just communicating and being like, you know, this is who I am. I haven't had bottom surgery.

If that is something that you're still interested in, cool. If not, good. And by the way, because you don't need those guys that are going to be judgmental. Wait, I get that. I know you just haven't, I'm asking questions because, you know, but when I answered that question before is I was giving an example that I would like, if I made out with a, like a transgender pre-op and the fact that she had a penis aroused me, it wasn't about her as a person. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's seeing the penis.

Like if I had a shot of her lower half and I don't know if it's transgender, it's a penis. And if that aroused me and I'm aroused by a penis, doesn't that necessarily, you know what I'm saying? I'm not talking about about the person I'm talking about the actual unit of the dick but my only defense to that is like I love boobs right so like but just because I like I and I don't know

if I would necessarily like yeah I think women's breasts are unbelievable I don't know if I'm necessarily attracted or I don't know how I would classify it but I don't think that that makes me any which way you know what I'm necessarily attracted or I don't know how I would classify it, but I don't think that that makes me any which way. You know what I mean? I think it's just like you can be attracted to certain things in the same way people,

certain people like butts and some people like boobs, whatever it may be. I get there's a spectrum for sure. And I'm not saying obviously like if I, if a transgender person pre-op, like I'm a transgender, I'm a woman. I don't think it's right for anyone to say, well, have you had surgery yet? And until you do, I'm not going to identify, like whatever you want to identify. Great. I'm just saying if I'm attracted to a penis, then I would, that would confuse me. Not, you know, you do, but that's right. What's that? Um,

not you know you do but that's right what's that by the way it just hit me that that's Willis yes

I love her so much are you okay can you it's just me and you no just kidding no I'm just kidding but um

yeah that's that's good good job you kind of redeemed yourself. All right. Well, I think honestly, I would just ask. Yeah, we just need, I would love to have, you know, you to use your voice to educate both, you know,

like cisgender females and males, because I want to be, like I said, I want to be able to have more conversations. I want to know what's a boundary conversations. I want to know what's, what's a boundary for you, what works and what doesn't, because I'm sure that that changes person to person as well, you know, and you can't just do a broad spectrum.

Like this works for one trans woman and this works doesn't, you know, you're a woman and different things work for me than work for Rochelle. It's just, you know, totally. Well, can we agree that Nick has always,

look at that, you broke me down, I called you Nick. You've always had the positive your entire life until you became a reality TV star. So now you're getting the negative and I think that's more why you're focusing on it because a person like me, I don't want to hear any negative at all. I want to hear the positives because I'm used to the negative.

So I think that's true. Because I guarantee you, walking down the street, no one said, ugh, that ugly guy. They were like, I don't have his babies. I say that to Nick all the time. I say, ugh, look at this ugly man. Too many six-packs. He probably saw him this time

and thought he was a black guy because he does have a nice body. I will admit that. Nick's a metallic. I take a lot of pride in my... I definitely objectified Nick when I saw him on Bachelor in Paradise. And I was like,

maybe I'll be friends with him because look at his body. Listen, it's all relative and I can't... I'm not going to sit there and say that I was like, maybe I'll be friends with him because look at his body. Listen, it's all relative. And I can't, I'm not going to sit there and say that I have like, I'm a white male who's straight. Like it's been pretty charmed in terms of, but like it is all relative to say that I haven't been criticized. I was voted the most annoying in high school.

That hurt my feelings. Like, you know what I'm saying? I have been called names. I was picked on when I was a kid. Like it you know what I'm saying? I have been called names. I was picked on when I was a kid. Like it doesn't matter. Like, so like, have I ever got negative comments? Yeah, sure. I mean, has my life been probably a lot easier to get through than other people because a lot of blessings and fortunate things that I've had? Absolutely. But I don't think it's, I don't think we, any of us should compete in how our struggle has been.

I find it fascinating, especially when I'm out in LA and I meet certain people who I would admire or they're famous. And you get to know them and you hear their... And what I've learned having gotten any notoriety, at the end of the day, we're all just people and we all have insecurities and we all have our shit. I think we make the mistake sometimes of comparing our shit to other people's shit. It's not a competition. So, you know, again, your struggle, I am sure I know, has been more burden than mine.

But I just don't think, you know. You can't compare. Everybody's going through their own thing. I've dealt with negative comments like all people have long before I ever went on TV okay I guess I have no choice but to believe you anyways I really appreciate you taking the time

thanks for listening you're awesome I appreciate your honesty you have a great day bye what's your name? it's Ellie hi Ellie nice to meet you You have a great day. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hi, what's your name? It's Ellie.

Hi, Ellie. Nice to meet you. So I don't know when, let me know when to start, but yeah, thanks again for including me, Nick. I was like a big fan of you doing this podcast. I was listening to you,

I think on like Ashley Eye's podcast and like I was just like, they kept talking. I was like, no, I want to hear more of Nick. I want to hear what he's saying. Just like guys' perspective. So when you said you were doing one, I was just like, they kept talking. I was like, no, I want to hear more of Nick. I want to hear what he's saying. Just like guys perspective. So when you said you were doing one, I was like, yes. Um, so yeah, I've been listening and

I was waiting for a, but I was like, he's waiting for the negative criticism. Anyways. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So, um, so should I just start again yeah yeah okay so yeah i wrote in a few months ago i actually just moved to la from chicago which i know you're from amazing um and i was writing in about nick you were talking a lot about like you're looking for marriage you're 38 39 however old you are and like just like having challenges with like challenges with the difference between the girl you have in your mind that you want to date for marriage versus maybe some of the girls you are dating. And I don't want to put words in your mouth.

But some of what you said resonated with me from a girl perspective. Sorry. Just in the sense that I am also 39. And I haven't been married. I've never been engaged. I've actually never even lived with someone. And I had a lot of serious relationships up until the age of like 30. And for maybe I don't even know all the reasons, but ever since then, I really haven't dug into like a really serious

relationship. So I've also been dating younger. I know I was thinking about this today off before the call, like why? And so that was one of the reasons I wanted to was thinking about this today off before the call like why and so that was one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you guys today but I know from my own perspective one of the reasons I've been drawn towards younger guys is I feel like there's like this need with older guys to explain why are you 39 why have you never been married like why are you single and I almost feel like with younger guys it's like I don't know like less pressure to like explain why I haven't done that yet. So I, my last boyfriend, which I knew I was moving to LA, so I knew that was going to last. The last

guy I dated was 24. Granted, I didn't know he was 24 when I dated, like when I met him. Um, but that was just the last person I was like interested in. So that's my question. Wait, I'm diving in on this. Hold on. Because, uh, and I'm sure you want a guy's perspective, so I'll give it to you. But so I just want to get some clarity. So men that you dated that were older were kind of coming for you a little bit about why you hadn't figured shit out yet. Yeah. And not necessarily just older men, but I feel like, um, yeah, like maybe, I mean, that was one of the things I was thinking that I don't like that. I don't like that judgment.

Agreed, yeah. I don't like that judgment by dating someone who was more like, let's just have fun and be in the moment versus like all this like pressure. I'm not against it. Did that happen to you multiple times where you felt like older men were kind of questioning or judging you a bit? Yeah, definitely. I felt like there must be something wrong with you, which there probably might be. I don't know.

There's definitely not. So that was part of it. And then I think also part of it maybe just being in Chicago, but like a lifestyle difference. I definitely still like to do adventurous, fun things. I'm attracted to, I don't want to say young energy but just like a like a haven't given up on life energy so I don't know what what what do you think your goals are like in the next couple years what are you looking for um so I definitely want to be married and have kids because I just don't want to be like

alone later in life. Um, but I don't have like this huge, like I need to do it today. Okay. I'm also 39. So like I do. So have you thought about freezing your eggs? I actually just did my first round a couple of months ago. Amazing. So, so you're totally, you're totally like set that way. if that's not something that you're wanting immediately my position on it if you care about my advice

but I think is if you're not in a place where you're like I feel like I need to have kids right now or be married right now I think it's totally cool that you're dating

younger dudes and you're just having fun yeah but I mean like the fun needs to like wrap up so for sure I hear you girl I mean look the fun needs to like wrap wrap up so for sure but I hear you girl

I mean look I'm with you too like I want to be I want to you know I want to have kids and I want to be in a serious relationship I think the difference is is just I think that there will be people who are older than you that aren't going to judge you or ask you, you know, I think people are just judgmental. But I think it's cool to be whatever age you are and whatever your journey is, is yours and shouldn't be judged by somebody else based on what they think you should have done. But rumor your mom like married a younger guy, right? Yeah. Was. Yeah, I think it's totally fine. True, true, true. I didn't even

think about that. You know what I mean? That's what I mean. Like if you meet a guy that is younger, I don't think the age matters as long as you both are on the same page with what you're wanting. You know what I mean? Like you could find a 29-year-old who's like, listen, I'm ready to be like start a family and be serious and still have fun with you. So I don't think it should, you know what I mean? Like that's, I think that that's totally available to you. Yeah. I guess I just haven't met a lot of people like myself. I mean, a lot, like, um, one of my good girlfriends is my age, but a lot, I mean, I don't know, Nick, if you're like this, but I feel like my friends get younger and younger. Cause like I get a group that marries off and like, so now they're like all 28, 29. So I don't know.

I just feel like I'm the only one I know like this right now. So maybe LA will be different. It's like Peter Pan syndrome out here. Yes and no. My, my, I think everything rumor said is true. I think there's a couple of things just to get into the specifics of your situation and in some ways that can relate. I mean, listen, I constantly judge myself. I'm very hard on myself. I've noticed, and I think this is true for all people, that the more we judge ourselves, the more sensitive we are from judgments of others. And sometimes we hear it more because

we've already judged ourselves. I think, you know, this whole like younger guy and older guys, you feel more judged, but there is going to be some truth. And like, listen, there's no hard and fast rule. There's no black and white. You can have mature young people, but you know, it's not as common for a 24 year old-old guy to be dating a woman in her mid-30s, right? That's just a reality, right? And let's just not pretend that there's not going to be, as a 24-year-old guy, there's going to be a novelty in it. So the reason why he's not asking you why you haven't settled down, because he's excited. He's dating someone in your position. He thinks it's cool and it's wild. And he's doesn't, he's not, he's not really thinking

about settle down. He doesn't give a shit. You know, the, what I mean by judging yourself is that, listen, I get it all too. Like sometimes people just want to know when they're asking you why you're single, it might not be coming from a place of judgment. It's coming from a place of getting to know you. It feels like judgment because you've already judged yourself. I know this because I do it all the time. And I'm also insecure about getting judged. I'm insecure about people asking me, why are you single? Does it do this because of this? I've already worried about people thinking this about me. And so when they ask it, they don't even necessarily mean it in a judgmental way. I just take it as judgmental because I'm insecure

about it. And you're thinking about that. You're thinking about it. So I, I, I only say that because, uh, maybe give men your age a break sometimes. I mean, there's a diff, you should know the difference between if they're really like being dicks about it or if they're just trying to get to know you. Usually you can tell the difference. And if they're just trying to get to know you, um, you know, if you're on a date and so like, tell me about yourself. Why, you know, why do you think you're in this position or not position or like, why, why, you know, have you had past relationships? Why do you think you're still single? It's a fair question. Um, if they say it in a way, if, if they say in a way, it's

like, well, I mean, you have like a lot of red flags or like, what's your baggage. If they do it in a way like that, and that's a dick, You know, that's, that's judgmental. Then they're assuming you have baggage because you're single and whatever. Um, I, when I, when I get asked the question, I am single ultimately because I choose to be, uh, not everyone I've liked has wanted to go out with me, but I find for the most part when I'm dating, I'm the one who's deciding, and't for me. I have become more selective because as I've gotten older, I've honed in on what I want and more importantly, what I don't want. And sometimes I worry about being too picky because I think I've narrowed it down too much. But ultimately, it's my choice. And when I get insecure about that, I have to remind myself that I'm in this

position because I choose to be. And I sometimes can make better choices and I can put myself in better positions to get what I say I want and manifest the reality that I want. But I have to not get down on myself and judge myself so that when I do get these questions, I meet these people, I'm not immediately getting defensive and getting turned off by someone who's just trying to get to know me. And I think deep down we can know the difference about someone trying to get to know you or someone criticizing you. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah.

No, definitely. I think probably the root of it, like I don't even know the answer maybe, so I don't want to be asked. But yeah, I get it. And that's probably a whole other topic for someone with a degree in something.

It's true. A lot of friends I grew up with are married with kids and I enjoy hanging out with them, especially when I go home. And there are times where I just get bored because they're doing things I don't want to do. And then I sometimes judge myself because I've become friends with people I relate to and I think are cool. And they're like five or six years younger than me. And to me, it feels weird because I've never been friends with people that much younger than me before. And I think about it. I judge myself.

I get in my own head and I make it a thing and no one else gives a shit. I don't care that you're so much older than me. And I guess I do that a lot too. I was recently told by a young woman that I have a very youthful spirit and she couldn't get over the fact how... Oh God.

Oh my God. Why do you guys roll your eyes when I... Because... I was like, well, thank you. She couldn't get over it, how youthful I am. I thought it would... Tell you what, I couldn't get over it, how youthful I am. I thought it was, I mean, tell you what, I only said it because it actually, it made me feel good.

I'm sure, and I'm sure. And I do judge myself and I do get in my head about it. I can't make fun of him because I just know too much about you. You're the same. You're literally the same. I know. We know too much about each other. This is bad. We're the same you're literally the same I know we know too much about each other this is bad is that helpful

it is helpful I don't know I think the answer is to stay older I haven't done that yet I think the answer is to keep going out there and keep having fun and saying yes to life and just try not to be mindful of

judging yourself because I think usually that's where the insecurities come from. And my guess is you're probably doing a fair share of that. Fair bit of that. And maybe just respond to the people like regardless of their age, who makes you who makes you feel good and go from there you know what i mean yeah yeah i know the difference between a good time and a long-term yeah all right awesome thank you all right have a great day thanks so much you too well rue it has been a pleasure. See, I could do this all the time. Hey, welcome to come back. Come back.

All the time. Because I just feel like we have such an interesting, I don't know, we're both like open about stuff and we want to have more discussions that I feel like some people don't want to have. Yeah. So I'm just always, like there's a million other topics about dating and relationships that I feel like we could go into for hours. You know where we are.

I know. You won't come back. Do you have any tips for people who are wanting to, they feel like they self-sabotage but are wanting to stop doing that? Yeah. I've been taking this class recently and the biggest thing that I took away from this class is, and it's a hard one to wrap your mind around, so don't get mad at me, is we are responsible for all of the disturbances in our life. And when I started

realizing that and looking back, so I was dating someone and had a situation where, kind of similar to what Ellie was just talking about, where I felt extremely judged by him. And I felt, and I got really triggered and defensive and I was ready to just be like, fuck you, bye, like how could you say that to me? And what I realized is when I was able to kind of get out of a reactive place and track it back was that because I had not expressed myself earlier and expressed boundaries or expressed feelings about a certain thing, I created the whole situation. And so I think kind of like what you were saying, Nick, I think that there's so much of getting triggered by other people because of our own self judgments. And in terms of self-sabotage, it's so difficult, but I think trying the best you can to trust in the value that you have for yourself and knowing that you deserve better and not being afraid to speak your truth or talk about what you need and what you want because you're afraid someone is going to reject you or abandon you. If you can get to a place where you realize that you will be

so much happier, because at the end of the day, you're just delaying the inevitable. If you want something and there's a truth about someone that you're feeling and they're not going to be able to meet that need, then why are you spending time with them? Because they can't meet your need today. They're probably not going to be able to meet it three months, six months, a year from then. And you're better off saving your energy to find someone that's really going to be there to support you and be able to listen and value you, I think. But it's hard, man.

It's so hard. I want that chocolate cake out of the trash all the time. I always eat the Sour Patch Kids at the movie theater. I do that. I eat too much candy. I always feel gross afterwards. Oh, it's too much. And that's basically dating.

That is dating. Eating too many Sour Patch Kids at the movies. Don't go. Well, I love you very much. Thanks for coming. You too, bud. And we'll see how the people respond. No, you're welcome to talk.

Yeah, they'll be like, never have her on your show again. No one's going to say that. I had a great time. Next week, guys, again, a very special episode from myself. My parents are on and some of my siblings. And I hope you guys enjoy it and we will

see you next week. Have a great week.