The Viall Files - E18 Nick's Family

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

On this very special episode of The Viall Files, I’m joined by my parents and my sister Olivia. Growing up in a family of 13 has its unique challenges…my mom and dad have basically parented with three different generations! I’m proud of my family and especially proud of how they handled the news of my sister coming out. As always, we take some calls from fans at the end, and my mom gives some surprising advice.Get ready to “Get Wild with the Vialls.” Be sure to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode! Thanks to our sponsors: ModCloth - http://www.modcloth.com Cove - http://www.withcove.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I am very excited for this episode. I have my parents, my sister Olivia. It's very meaningful to me. It's very special. You have the best family. My family is great. I love them. What do you think about Vanessa suggesting that you were the reason she wasn't invited to Jared's wedding?

I think it's fucking bullshit. Yeah, slightly irritated. I mean, if we're going to spend time talking about our personal lives to promote our own podcast like they did that's totally what it was do you really think he wanted to not invite her on air oh i don't know i don't think jared had anything to do with that and i think jared was pretty frustrated with that whole bit okay listen if i had a problem with vanessa to the wedding, then I probably would have had a problem with Jared doing a podcast with Vanessa when he lived with me on my couch. He did.

Well, he wasn't on my couch. But when Jared moved to L.A., I wanted him to move here. I had an extra room. And so, as friends sometimes do, I said, Well, before you commit to L.A., why don't you just stay at my place for a while and see if you like it and he did and he loved it he's still a little longer than i thought um jared's good company though uh yeah and then like in two months in he had this opportunity to do this podcast with vanessa and i was like great go for it i don't care so i think it's a little silly so i

don't necessarily appreciate the implication That I was somehow The reason I could care less I also think it would be A great Instagram Moment Could you imagine Vanessa there

With her new boyfriend And they're dancing And like I'm like I'm pretend dancing By myself And in the background Like that focus

Like I do a landscape Like one of those Portrait modes And you see like Vanessa and her new Boo kissing in the background I'm just sitting there All lonely I'd get some likes Oh i'm saying i don't give a shit like i

think it's annoying sometimes and i'm just putting this out there if you work with someone you don't get to go to their wedding all the time oh that's a good point yeah Yeah. That's what I think. Hmm. A little cold. It's a little cold. It's not my wedding. Yeah. No. For sure. I'm making a suggestion that maybe why someone might not be invited is because they're not actually friends. They're coworkers.

Oh, okay. Totally unrelated to what we're talking about, but that might be it. Yeah. I don't want to speak out of turn. Well, it's good you set the record straight. But maybe they're not friends. They're it. Yeah. I don't want to speak out of turn. Well, it's good. You set the record. Maybe they're not friends. They're friendly. Okay.

I'm just saying. Okay. Well, this is going to be a great episode with my parents. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of The Vile Files. I'm your host Nick, I am joined by Rochelle. Hello. As always. And it's a very special episode for me because my guest hosts or people joining us are my family,

specifically my mom, my dad, and my sister, Olivia. Bella is in the background. We excluded her from this episode. You want to say hi, Bella? Hi. All right. Well, that was Bella. Thanks for joining us.

My parents are visiting from Wisconsin, a little spring break, and they're staying with me. My place isn't meant for five people. I have a two-bedroom, a small little bungalow on the beach. It's very comfy and great for me and maybe my parents. it's a little tight

right right now but i am really happy to have you guys it's been really nice um yeah so uh my dad also broke his wrist here on this trip because he thought it'd be cool to ride a bird on a on a scooter with a coffee. Actually, it was a lime. It was a lime. For all those who aren't familiar with the scooters out there. Yeah, he, what did you do? Well, we were going out early to get coffee. And as we were leaving, Mary said,

whatever you do, don't ride back with coffee. Walk back. Does that dare you to? Well, me being 62, whatever you do, don't ride back with coffee, walk back, which me. Did that dare you to? Well, me being 62, it's like what I heard wasn't that. What I heard was you're too old to do that. So, of course, I did it. It did not work out well.

I had to go back and get another coffee, which at the time I thought was the worst part of it, and later on as the day wore on. Your wrist got, you had to defy your wife i mean well not so much defy my wife as defy the idea that i was getting too old to do something you know it's kind of a i don't know a vanity thing yeah anyways i'm sorry about your wrist dad he has this very clunky life lesson do you have to get a cast i don't know yet have to see a orthopedic guy when we get specialists yeah he's rough i think he's i think

he's gonna be fine uh we also have my sister olivia here hi hi it's good to have you um i wanted to have my family on and um you know just because i enjoy them their company so much and i've referenced my parents and my family a little bit through each episode. And obviously, I love my family. But, you know, I've recently become more and more proud of my family, especially as I think back on my life and reflect about my childhood and my upbringing and kind of the evolution of my family and even my life. The reason why my sister Olivia is joining us today. My sister Olivia recently came out as gay a few months ago. Anything to say about that?

I mean, it was an interesting path, trying to come out. It was a lot to deal with, but I'm happy I did it. I'm happy you did, too. And the reason why I think, well, a lot of reasons, we'll get into it. But again, I have 10 siblings. I grew up very conservative. We grew up very conservative. We grew up very Catholic. We'll get in more about just, I don't know, sometimes I don't even know the answer in terms of, do my parents plan on having 11 kids, et cetera, et cetera. But we don't know the answer to that either. Yeah. But clearly,

we grew up in a very traditional Catholic household. And the idea of coming out or being gay was, you know, I never really thought of it. It was certainly, it's become more progressive. And Olivia came out, she's now 18, but came out as a 17 year old. And just overall, it wasn't, it was a positive thing in a sense of, of, of my family's reaction, specifically my parents. And I just thought that would be an interesting conversation given kind of where my family came from. And I think a lot of families out there, whether it's, you have an LGBT person in your family or just someone who's different. I mean, my family is an extreme case in the fact that there's 11 kids. And so there's so many different personalities. And what is that like for parents to raise a bunch of kids who quite honestly don't grow up

exactly how you might expect them to, or whether maybe there's or want them to, I don't grow up exactly how you might expect them to or whether maybe there's or want them to i don't know i don't know as parents do you have an expectation of how you're and then when they become all different what is that like but getting back to olivia i mean you know you talked about what i'm interested in i don't know they had the answer to is you talked about the struggle about coming out and um when you first i don't know how how old were you when you started questioning your sexuality i was still 17 it was something that i didn't really like think about um i had friends who like thought i was but i kind of like brushed it aside i was like no i'm not really yeah after i told like a couple friends like i there were certain friends who i knew like

i wasn't sure how they would accept it because they never talked about it or they weren't friends with people who were, so I wasn't sure how they'd react. But all of my friends were super supportive about it. No one was really. And how long did you wait until you came out to mom and dad? It was, I waited the whole summer. you came out to mom and dad it was i waited the whole summer um it was three months and i told them on labor day the day before school started like that night were you like so and you're like

okay i'm gonna tell them what was that thought process like to tell to tell two parents who you know grew up we grew up i mean we grew up around priests and nuns and had priests come over to give confession just to give perspective on how Catholic our family is. I mean, I wasn't sure how they would react. I wasn't sure how any of our siblings would react either. I figured most of them would be very accepting of it. So I told Bella first. Bella was the first person yeah i told

bella that's a wild choice i'm gonna pick the youngest person in the family and drop this bomb on them okay well i think you know she's around it enough that i was like okay warm up testing her out yeah i might not even remember she's 14 she has other shit going on i figured she wouldn't care i was just kind of like seeing like what she would say i was like you told bella first yeah and then what was bella's reaction bella was like okay like like didn't really know what to say like she was like okay i'm not really like it she didn't really seem surprised by it she didn't seem like she was like great like so then after bella who did you i was planning on telling mom and dad next, but Teresa found out next on accident. Teresa is my other younger sister,

so it goes Bella, Olivia, Teresa in reverse. Yeah, and Teresa was 20 at the time. Yeah, like 20 years old. And I was in my room and I was talking to a friend because I was figuring out how I was going to tell mom and dad. I wasn't sure how I was going to do it. I was talking to a friend about it was figuring out how I was going to tell mom and dad I wasn't sure how I was going to do it I was talking to a friend about it and I didn't know Teresa was home and I'm a loud talker and Teresa came in my room was like I need to talk to you and I was like shoot like I was like no Teresa doesn't like come up to me like oh I need to

talk to you like I was like I was like she knows it's like I was like I know what this is about and i was like because she was like finish up your conversation and i'll talk to you and i was like okay and after having a conversation i was like okay i'm done she came in she was like so i overheard your conversation i was like okay and she was like are you like she didn't know what to say like she was like didn't know how to start the conversation she seemed like she was like okay um and she was like it was like are you talking about your friend or was that about you and i was like no it was about me so she's like so you're gay i was like i was like yeah so what are you saying she seemed like she was very accepting but yeah um and it was just like we just started talking about for a while and then

bella came in she was like oh so you know now and Tressa was so upset she was like you told Bella first out of all of us and I was like

Tressa was more concerned about her pecking order her pecking order yeah immediately it was more like wait I'm not your favorite

or I mean it's alright so that she was upset about that yeah she was upset that i told bella first well what and then once she got over her own we just started talking about it she was like i don't know she i think she asked me if like like how i found out and how i realized it and she was like when did this happen she's like are you dating someone she was like all that stuff

um but it was more of just a very funny conversation between her and me and bella so now the two uh your two sisters know and then that and then you told mom and dad no uh sarah found out next sarah yeah now nick's offended yeah nick why where why are you so far no sarah can be tricky. The only reason I told Sarah next is because I was seeing her that day and I was like, okay, one last person before I warm up and tell mom and dad. One last person.

See how this goes. Yeah. But so far you're batting 1,000, right? Like everyone you've told has been. Yeah, has been great about it. No one at this point had been like upset about it had felt uncomfortable everyone was like oh cool or like they were like oh i already knew that you were stuff like that um but i told sarah because we were hanging out that day um i told her and she

was like super excited about it she was happy and i was like okay great so i'm ready to tell mom and dad like she was an older sibling so i was figuring you know if i tell an older sibling we'll see how that goes first sure but going up the ladder yeah basically um and then i told mom and dad then you told mom and dad and how did you tell them that's the interesting i wasn't gonna tell them in person at first what were you gonna do i wrote them a letter okay and i was just gonna i was gonna leave for the day and i was like i told i said i said it all up here you go i said it all i'll be back i was like bella take this letter and when i leave the house i'm gonna have you give it to mom and dad you afraid like what were you i just i didn't want to deal like i didn't want to have like i wasn't sure't want to have, like, I wasn't sure it was going to happen, but, like, deep down, I knew that they would be, like, accepting.

And, like, I knew that, like, I knew they were going to be surprised, but I was, like, I just want to, like, have them, like, kind of, like, read this and kind of, like, process it first. I can't imagine our reaction to Bella handing us this letter saying, Olivia wanted to give us the... And I think we would have freaked out. Initially, it would have been dread to read this letter and wonder, what is she writing us?

Get them really scared. The worst. Be like, oh, thank God, she's only gay. Great. It's not cancer. She's not running away. So then you told mom and dad. Yeah. Great. It's not cancer. She's not running away. Yeah. So then you told mom and dad and...

Well, the only reason I didn't... Well, you told them in person though, right? You can thank Teresa. Teresa's the reason I didn't give you a letter. Teresa was like, do not give him a letter. Like, just tell them. Got advice from the big sister. Yeah.

So Teresa, I don't know if I still have it, but I printed it out. I was all ready. And then Teresa was like, don't do it. You still have the letter? Probably. You should frame it. You should keep that. You should.

I think looking back, it might be a... I don't think they've even read it. I didn't know it existed. I don't think... Maybe you don't even share it to anyone. I think that would be a great... For you personally. For you personally.

You should definitely hang on to that. I don't know if I... You're kind of wild to read 10 years from now or 20 years from now. Yeah. But yeah, I told I think I saw that. You're kind of wild to read 10 years from now or 20 years from now. Yeah. But yeah, I told them. I like came downstairs. I was like walking around my room like pacing. I was like, okay, this is what I'll say and then I'll say this

and they'll say that. And I was like planning out the conversation. And then I came downstairs and mom was like cooking in the kitchen. Dad was in the living room like watching TV. And I came down and I was like – Sounds very stereotypical. I was standing there and i was like i was i was standing there and mom was like what's wrong like she knew instantly something was wrong i was like i'm fine like nothing's wrong and i kept like walking around she was like something's wrong like what's

wrong i was like nothing and then like five minutes later i was like i need to talk to you and instantly it was like oh no like what's Like, what happened? What did you do? And I was like, I didn't do anything. It's not that bad. And then she was like, my mom called in dad. And then we sat in, like, the sunroom. And I was like, so. I didn't know what to say.

Like, I worded it really weird. I was like, so I'm not straight. Actually, I think you said you were bi. Yeah, I came out as bi first. Because at that point, I still wasn't sure. I was still kind of confused. And I came out as bi because I was like, I don't know if I want to come out as a lesbian at first. Because I don't know if I am.

So I came out as bi first. Which actually, I think, confused me more. Because my dad being like, eh? Well, because she's not had a lot of relationship experience. I'm thinking, how do you decide that you're bi and you haven't really, you hadn't done a lot of dating. So I'm thinking, how do you know this?

And I had only dated guys at that point. And then, so you came out as bi and then what? I eventually was like, quick update, where are you now? I'm gay. I'm a lesbian. lesbian well i don't know how that works but if you're bisexual if you're you're still part of the lgbt community you're on the spectrum it's like i think it's what the b i think that's what the b stands for that is the b lgbt see you learn something new every day yeah um so

you told and then you guys guys, what was your reaction? Well, I think for me personally is that when I could tell there was something wrong, and I think I got myself so worked up like, oh my gosh, what is wrong, that when she told me, it was like, that's it? You know, so it really wasn't. Were you guys surprised? I don't know if I was totally shocked or no, because actually when we were talking about it the other day,

I was trying to think back and remember when she told me, and I can't even remember until you started talking about it now and it kind of started coming back. So it wasn't like a big shock. I know when she told me that she told bella first i got a little defensive you too yeah but for well first of all not for the same reasons no no no no it wasn't that first of all bella was young and i'm sitting there thinking as a parent okay how is bella taking this and you And more concerned about how she was.

And then I thought to myself, I thought, here's an example of a parent underestimating a younger child. And I think Bella really taught us a lot as well. It's just like, you know, children are very accepting. And I think that that's what helps us as parenting throughout the years is that taught me to be more open and learning from my children without, you know, underestimating, you know, them. You know, I think as a parent, sometimes you underestimate your children. And

I think that situation helped me a lot. I will say that I did feel like I wish that, you know, I think you always wish that your child could come to you when there's a problem, you know, that's just, you know, and then I thought, you know, throughout the years, because we had such a large family, I just suspected that which one was,, I just suspected that one of them would come to us. Something you guys told me throughout the week, I never knew this, and we were talking about the Up and Home Podcast, is you guys, I don't know how long ago, but kind of as a couple, had a conversation. It's inevitable.

What happens if one of our kids comes out as gay and i guess yeah you have 11 kids literally statistically it would have been more surprising that one wasn't yeah but i was waiting i was like come on guys like step up who's gonna be and i think that i always hope that if any of our children were gay, that they would feel comfortable enough. But as far as a parent, I realized that I never really talked about that freely. Not that it was a negative thing, but I didn't openly talk about so I could see why they, such as Olivia would feel like, oh, how are they going to take this or whatever, even though we are accepting anyone else outside our family who's gay or whatever i think that because we didn't maybe talk about it yeah no i get what you're saying

like it wasn't in the house i mean it wasn't like one of those things where you guys sat us all down like hey just just a blanket statement just in case anyone is feel free to come forward yeah but it's it's different times i mean it's i think back in my childhood and again when i talk about when i was bullied about it i never really thought about it because i never got to the point where i actually questioned my sexuality but i mean you guys have never made me it's you know i'm bragging about my parents but they have always they've always made us feel loved. And at the end of the day, I can't speak for all of my siblings, but I think at least for me, and I think they would all agree that whether we ever disappointed our parents and whatever,

even if we went against maybe things that we were raised to do, I don't think our parents ever made us feel like we wouldn't have their love and affection, which is something I've always been grateful for. And I don't know if everyone is lucky enough to say that. So thanks guys. As far as initial reaction, I wasn't super proud of mine in hindsight, because when she said she was bi,

I told you I had that reaction. It's like, how do you know? And I asked her that out loud. And in hindsight, I was like, that probably wasn't the most welcoming thing to say to question her judgment. Sure. But that was my initial reaction. Like, how do you even know?

Defensiveness? No, I just was a little confused by the whole by thing. It's like, you're saying that you're either or, you don't have it. And I'm like, what's your point of reference? You know? Well, I mean, that's kind of the thing thing we talk a little bit about ignorance or whatever and i think sometimes we all i think as a society get defensive about being accused of having ignorance and yet i think everyone has ignorance about a lot of things even today and i think more and more we become more of

a progressive society and i joke with my parents and just kind of giving reference of just again, how hardcore you guys once were. And I told my parents over the weekend, my dad's reaction was really great. We were so Catholic at one point that when I was, when I was a young kid. How Catholic were you? What?

So Catholic. So Catholic that one time I have an aunt and uncle. I have a few aunt and uncles, but I don't know how it came up. My aunt and uncle are not Catholic. They don't practice Catholic. Catholicism, I don't know what you call it. And I remember my dad being like, yeah, they're married, but not in the eyes of God.

I think I got married by like a Lutheran priest. That's still Christian. Yeah. That's how hardcore my parents were. I honestly don't remember that. Not my proudest moment. But I mean, listen. But I think that's when you look back from where we started. And when you look back from where we started, I think for me, you know, you have children and it's almost like opening it was confidence and to believe what I really wanted to believe that there's a there's a in that time there was

a lot of guilt and shame and then you kind of make your decisions on that without just feeling your heart and what and as we had children for it just, they taught me a lot. And I think as parents, sometimes you feel like you're the ones that know it all. And not necessarily know it all, but just by what you were taught. Instead of thinking, okay, how do I see the world in front of me right now instead of looking back on how maybe I was raised and finding myself and what I believe in? Not that that was bad at all because my parents taught me a lot. And I think even now at the age we're at and Bella's 13, 14?

14. You know, you're just always learning. You're always learning. And you think as a parent that, okay, I've been a parent for 10 years. I think I know it. You're never going to know it all. You're always going to learn.

When we started having kids, Mary was 21 and I was 23. We were babies. We had no clue. And it's not like you had this guideline and we just, you know, we knew how we were raised and you kind of just go with the flow. So it's a good thing they start out as babies because you can't do that much harm, you know, hopefully.

I mean, I'm okay-ish, you know, as one of the older ones. I feel like I kind of turned out yeah you did all right but you know and you just you gain perspective over the years and and i was telling actually telling you recently i remember you know when you get when you were younger and you started playing sports and stuff as a parent it was just like oh this is just awesome you know and you're just all in and you know arguing with refs and you know yelling and getting all excited and now i go to bella's stuff and i'm just watching his other parents i'm like chill buddy it's just not that important you know and you gain you gain perspective and you gain uh experience and knowledge and there's things that you don't do

so well and hopefully you learn from them well i don't know if you guys know this but kind of what speaking to what mom said i mean when i get asked about my childhood and upbringing and my parents, one thing my parents always did an amazing job of, and maybe this is a product of having so many kids and just not the time, but you guys were always so open to learn from your kids too. I mean, and again, my parents weren't like these laissez-faire parents at all. I mean, they were pretty strict and they taught us a lot and instilled a lot of values. So it wasn't like they didn't give a shit or they didn't like share their values. But as we got older, like they're older kids and we kind of grew up and we kind of branched out in the world and

we kind of left the nest, so to speak, and then came back with different perspectives, my parents were always willing to listen and learn. It wasn't, well, we're your parents and we're right all the time. And I give my parents a lot of credit for that. And this is something that I noticed that my parents were always willing to do, even when I was 18, 19 and I left and my older sister Jessica went out in the world. And then that's kind of how my parents were always open to evolving, which I don't know if that always happens out there. I hope it does. And you see it more and more, but my parents were always, you know, I always noticed that about my parents and something I was always really grateful

for that they continue to evolve and be open-minded as their kids became open-minded as well. I think the other thing, because of the size of the family, by necessity, to a certain extent, we were more hands-off in that we didn't micromanage. We needed to allow you guys to figure things out on your own sometimes. And we really, one of the things that we're both. I appreciated that. I think one of the things we're both proud of is that we allowed you to be self-determining and self-sufficient. You had to learn that, you know, you were responsible for your outcomes.

And a lot of that was out of necessity because there was no way we were going to be able to micromanage everyone. I appreciate it. I mean, I'm in college and I have to be an adult because I know my parents. Olivia was born when I was in college. So they had other shit going on. And then I had friends whose moms would show up, take their laundry, do their laundry. I was like, bro.

would show up, take their laundry, do their laundry. I'm just like, bro, you know, but, you know, I guess if, if my parents, you know, had nothing, nothing better to do because like all of a sudden their kids are in college and my mom just wants to do my laundry because she misses me. I probably, I'm sure I would have let her. I don't know if that would have helped me much in life. And, and, uh, those little moments of figuring it out. Um, you know, my parents, again, were amazing parents and always there for us when we needed it.. You know, my parents, again, were amazing parents and always there for us when we needed it. But there was a lot of, you got to start being an adult really quick

and start figuring things out on your own. And my parents were always there for us. But I appreciate that because I know, and a lot of times I grew up, I noticed that I grew up quicker than some of my friends because they just relied on their parents to do those things. And so I think that was helpful.

But I think sometimes maybe, I don't know, when you guys were growing up, probably there was a lot of times where you didn't think we were there, even though we were there. I always knew that. Some of my other siblings get a little tough on you sometimes. Well, no, I mean, I just think, you know, as a kid, I mean, there are times when you you as a parent, you see something happening. And you know that maybe you just got to let them figure it out because you really want to step in and do it.

But you know that they got to learn that way. And I think it's just. That's interesting. I want to tap into that because I do. I think it's really interesting with my parents is they've been parents for so long that they've. We had three groups. Well, in the sense that like I started, you know, they had kids in school in the mid 80s and they have kids in school now and it's still 2019. So to think about all the different types of parents you've parented with along the way to see how parenting has changed over the years.

I think it's interesting we'll tap into the second we're gonna take a quick fake break um and this is what we do in podcasting is we take a break but you're still here old does that mean i can't you look very young yeah you can get my dad's gonna pee and we're gonna what i do um take a quick break we're gonna what i do um take a quick break i think it's fascinating and i kind of blows my mind to think that uh what i have an older sister and it was what 1985 when she was in kindergarten who jessica ish yeah whatever ish so from 1985 to present day, and you still have five years left of Bella to graduate high school?

Just over four. That's how many years of kids in school. Yeah. And what's interesting is I think once you go to school, maybe a little bit before, you are interacting with other parents at your school. Yes. We're talking 28 years by the time. And so fascinating that you've obviously experienced parenting with other parents through the years. What has that been like and how has that changed? And do you see a lot of difference in parenting styles now versus back in the day?

see a lot of difference in parenting styles now versus back in the day um yes to some degree um as far as i tell people my perspective on it because you know when we were young parents and you start to make friends with parents of your kids through school or activities and the people that we initially made friends with they're like moved on i mean they have grandchildren they're they're traveling they're doing and and we're still going to soccer games or parent teacher conferences or things like that and i tell people that our life is like the movie groundhog day you just keep doing the same thing over and over again. And that's not a bad thing. It's just different because, you know, for both of us, I think there's times where you're a little envious of the freedom

that other people may have, but we don't have any regrets or blame. You know, it's totally on us. I mean, we're the ones that had the children and um and it has presented lots of challenges um many financial um but even emotionally there's a lot you know there's a lot of different challenges but i mean i can't imagine like the well just every parent obviously is emotionally connected to their kid and so so if something good or bad happens, right, you're reacting to it as parents. There's 11 different possibilities of shit happening from us. Yeah, but I think a lot of it is that of the 11 of you,

I think my guess is that they don't realize what the other 10 are doing for calling us or whatever i don't ever think about it yeah you know but you know we've grown from it and it's you know sometimes it gets overwhelming but if i if i look back and i you know they're sure there's times or you know we wish that oh we could do this or do that but there's a big joy of you guys seem thrilled what do you mean you're like oh well i mean it is i'm not gonna i mean it's a but let's get back to i'm more interested we can get to that in a second, but I'm more interested, again, like I think it's really fascinating

throughout the years of the different, like what have you seen from parenting back in the day that doesn't work anymore or still works or what are some of the things that we've gotten away from? I mean, what have you learned from being parents and all these different generations and kids in school and how is it different I don't know I mean well I see as far as far as you can for the kids aspect of it in school and you know when you older kids were younger I I think you were, I don't even know if I should even say more creative because you guys are creative in other ways,

but it's just like your artistic ability and the things that you guys would do. You guys were out more, more social. As the generations of you kids move down, I can see where like for Teresa, Olivia and and bella there's you see less of that you see i see less of it and all of you in a way it's more automated in terms yeah it's all the technology yeah it's yeah and when you were a kid we we didn't arrange play dates we didn't you had friends and you would you would be out playing hockey or street hockey or playing um strikeout

or doing something with your friends you know we didn't arrange any of that you did that um and now you see a lot more where parents are orchestrating their kids lives um and we still don't do that just it's just not our style and and and maybe they're missing out in some way because their friends a lot of times, like we'll ask Bella, why aren't you doing something with your friends? And they're always busy. They're always scheduled.

So you see a lot more of that. I mean, we have, I'm assuming, probably a lot of young parents listen to this podcast. Would you encourage, I mean, would you encourage them to try to do less orchestrating if they're doing that? Or are there things that you find beneficial now that, you know, that, what are you doing better? Also, like, what would you maybe encourage them to do?

And what are some things that you see that are better parenting styles now than you did before? I don't know that I feel like I have the background that I can tell people what they should do. But I would, my opinion. You guys are experts in parenting. My opinion is that when you overschedule your kids, for one thing, you're not allowing them to be self-determining. You know, they're doing what you're having them do, whether it be dance or soccer or gymnastics or whatever it might be.

And you guys did all, you know, obviously you guys did all those things, but it was not to the point that they didn't have any time to just be kids. And I think, and maybe it's not an unfair observation, but it appears that a lot of kids don't have that. You know, they're doing they're they're shuttling from here to there and you know there's not a lot of downtime where they

can really figure out who they are isn't you know like i said maybe it's an unfair observation we don't know what it's like for why parents do it only they can answer that themselves like we do i mean as far as why they make their choices, I think in naturally, I think even for us, even though we don't have our kids scheduled and everything, you have to really remind yourself, are you encouraging your child to do it because that's something they want to do or you want them to do it? And I think every parent is vulnerable to that. Yeah, I feel very fortunate too, just because, I mean, you know know i grew up playing a lot of sports and a lot of my siblings played sports and yet neither of you were really in sports growing up no dad you were never

that athletic and mom you just didn't play sports you right all right that's accurate no but i it also i remember my dad telling me just how it was he and i never i think back i never was you guys never whether it was me playing the violin or playing sports you guys never i never felt pressured to do anything i think i actually more remember my parents kind of this like like authentic like excitement or like wow my kid likes baseball my kid's kind of good at baseball and you guys were like this. My kid's kind of good at baseball. And you guys were like, this is neat.

And you kind of like went with it and like, all right, now we have a kid who likes sports. What do we do with that? Right. Right. And I was always thankful, especially looking back. I will say I'm incredibly thankful to your point is that as parents who were very, and again, make no mistake, my parents were very

involved parents who very much taught, you know, they're right or wrong, whether they've changed their values, my parents instilled their values onto us, right? In a good way. I mean, every parent should parent. And yet my parents were always okay with not only letting us make our own choices, but letting other adults who they respected also sometimes, like coaches for me. My parents never had a problem with a coach coaching me. And sometimes at a very young age, a very strict and very rigid and a very hard coach, that at first reaction, I almost wanted to cry and I must be like, who's this person telling me what to do? You're not my parent.

And my parents saying, respect your coach and respect what they're saying to them. It wasn't easy at first. And I don't know if parents are willing to do that these days. And I will say, I'm very thankful for that because it has taught me to respect, A, my elders, but realize there are a lot of smart people out there in the world who know a lot of things. And if it's only my parents who I let me teach things and then myself, I'm closing myself off to a lot of different points of view in the world and a lot of people who know a lot. One thing I was thankful for is my dad kind of was like, I don't know a lot about baseball. I don't know a lot you know one thing i was thankful for is my dad kind of was like i don't know a lot about baseball you know i don't know a lot about soccer so listen to your coaches who do you know and

that's a sports but i always really appreciated my parents doing that and instead of deciding they were going to be know-it-alls in whatever area because they were my parents and it really it really benefited my life and something I've always been thankful for. So I don't know if you guys did that on purpose, but thanks. Sometimes you can accidentally be good. Yeah. Well, I don't know. So yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know. But I think, I don't know, listening to the younger kids and as far as having coaches, I don't know, listening to the younger kids and as far as having coaches, I think that times have changed as far as maybe kids respecting their coaches or teachers.

I see a big difference. I don't think it's so good. I think there's fear. I mean, there's good and bad. I mean, well, not even bad. Just there's a big change. I think there's a lot more. I think there's less respect.

Yeah, I think there's a lot more of a feeling that you have to protect your kids from. And a lot of it justified because there are some unsavory people out there. Well, that's the thing, too. We've become more aware of someavory people out there. Well, that's the thing too. We've become more aware of, you know, some of these documentaries out there. Sure. Have you guys watched Abducted in Plain Sight? No.

Whew, that's wild. But that really, that whole documentary is really about ignorance and about not being able to ask asking questions and not being involved the way you should be. So there is a balance there, right? And I think parents these days are, you know, back in the day, we didn't have these documentaries to watch to be like, holy shit, do not let my kid ride the bike across town.

When I went to go play with my friends, I would just get on my bike and I would ride three or four miles to my friends. And when I'd get home, I'd ride three or four miles home. And I was fine. I mean, again, I was- I remember doing that at six. Yeah. Just getting on my bike and going places.

And as long as I was home to eat, everything was good. If I didn't, you know, didn't miss the meals. And there's a balance there, right? Right. With you older kids, we didn't think like that. Like with Bella and Olivia, it's like, I'm afraid for them to walk the dog around the block now. And then I never had that fear before.

That's interesting because I would argue that it's probably safer now than it was back then. Don't you think? I don't know. You know? You don't think we're just more aware? We have heightened sense of... I tend to believe that it appears like it's less safe because of the access of information that you hear about everything.

Whereas back in the day, if it wasn't, if it didn't happen in your neighborhood, you didn't. Well, that's what I'm saying. We just didn't hear about it. It wasn't not going on. We're more fearful as parents now than we were. That's what I'm saying. I think it's ironic that we've become more protective

and maybe rightfully so and more aware. And yet it's probably a slightly safer than it was back then because we just weren't talking about it. We weren't aware. Not you feel it's like i as a parent don't want to put such fear in my child but by me having fear because of what i hear how can you not have affect your children and that's really hard because i can compare how it was with you guys the older ones into the younger ones and you know life just kind of throws out things and you just really don't know how it's going to affect your kids statistically i don't know if it's any more or less dangerous i tend to think it's probably similar and i i tend to believe that

the risk of any single child having an issue is very small you know so it it becomes uh what's the balance you know between living your life in fear and not doing anything and being um careless yeah i mean i'm assuming that's something you guys are just constantly kind of self-reflecting in I guess probably me more than your dad yeah we're we balance each other I tend to be more yeah they'll be fine and mom's less like kind of like going on that scooter yeah um getting back to Olivia and just having a daughter who came out as gay. You know, what are some things I think as you guys reflect back that, again, I'm sitting here and I think

you guys did an amazing job parenting 11 kids, but what would you have done differently a little bit or at all, or advice you would give to parents now about that balance of instilling beliefs or just becoming to, you know, I think mom said it really best early on is that this, the realization of you're still figuring things out as you become adults. Like, I mean, I'm not a parent yet, but you know, a lot of people are becoming parents in their late twenties and early thirties, and we're all still figuring life out as we go. What's that balance of trying to figure out what you share to your kids

and just having an open environment? I just think it's just very important to be very open to everybody. I mean, to religion, to human beings, to your children. You just have to be very open and listen. Because I think people, whether you're talking about politics or whatever, people don't give people a chance to speak. You know, you need to listen. And you need to accept other people's opinions and be very open-minded

because you can learn a whole lot more than just living in the past or just living in the present. I mean, you just have to be very open-minded too. Yeah. As far as different styles of parenting, I think, I don't want to speak for Mary, but for me, when I look back, and I didn't think about it at the time, and I've probably only recently come to the realization, but as parents, we probably didn't talk about those subjects enough. We probably, I mean, if you could attest to it, sexuality wasn't really a topic of conversation in the household. No, other than don't have sex before you get married.

Yeah. And I think as parents, we probably could have done better as far as just making it okay. And I think part of it was the way we were raised and the times, and there was a certain amount of taboo. And we like to say we've evolved as parents. We are not the same parents we were when we were raising you. We have a lot more open-mindedness.

Obviously, from some of the comments that we apparently made, we were a lot more open-mindedness we were probably and obviously from some of the comments that we apparently made we were a lot more rigid um and now it's kind of like you know we have more of a um acceptance and understanding of of different points of view i think i think i was very lucky to have like them being as accepting as they were because there are a lot of parents who aren't like i hear stories about it yeah i mean i what before the episode we talked about it's sad that when you look at the homeless population of the youth in america what it's something 40 of that population is lgbtq children who have been exiled from their families because of them being gay. That's a staggering number.

And even in today's, you know, what we like to think of as more progressive is still going on. It's a statistic I can't even wrap my head around because I can't imagine, you know, having this child who you've raised and loved. And because of that that it's almost like if they came and said i murdered somebody that'd be okay but don't be gay kind of sometimes you wonder if how many of those kids who were exiled if they committed a crime their parents have been more accepting of that and it's that is well and again i'm saying this from from two you're hearing this from two people who were introduced by a catholic priest who i grew up around priests and nuns could not have been more hardcore in their religion

and yet have evolved and been open-minded and it's not to say my parents aren't still religious and don't have a relationship with god it's just a more open-mindedness to realizing as the human race, we just don't all have things figured out. But at the end of the day, we all come from different backgrounds. And you're, I mean, I don't want to, you have 11 kids and we're all very different. You have to also imagine, I'm thinking back when you were younger, and I'm thinking, okay, let's just say you came to us and said, Mom and Dad, I'm gay.

First of all, way back then, I mean, I don't believe that I would ever kick you out for that. But you also have to ask yourself, okay, do these parents feel that way because they're ashamed and they're thinking, oh, what other people are going to think? I mean, I'm wondering, I'm would that's a natural thing for people to think and i just think that do you think that's what it is like i don't know i think part of it i think it's by nature who knows i assume that a lot of it is religious or cultural yeah or they in the community we were taught we were talking about the Varsity Blues scandal. Have you guys heard of that?

Where Aunt Becky from Full House paid to get her. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what it came down to, what we think we all kind of concluded, the motive was more about the parents wanting their kids to go to a school so when they went to their cocktail parties, they could tell their friends proudly

that their children were accepted and students of UCLA or Yale or whatever. And it really, it seemed as though that was the motive. And yet, so like to have your kid come out as gay and if you have a tight nip in a small community and most of your surroundings, people say in your church who, and that fear, I wonder if that i wonder if that society has a lot of

effect on how you react to things and i i don't know i i'm just very proud of olivia like right now as a person i'm thinking i don't care what other people think i just know who my daughter is she's a beautiful person she has you know i know the good in her and i just know that i want her to be happy it's not what i want her to be i want her to be truly happy as i would want any of you whether i like something that you're doing or not i just want you to be happy within yourself mom how are you enjoying your natural habits essential oils i'm enjoying more than i thought i would because um i think when you first gave them to me, I was hesitant like any other new product.

Even my mom. I didn't even know if you were just trying to sell me something. But they do work. They really do. I mean, I have them right on my vanity dresser and I tend to reach for those before I release.

Which one's your favorite? It's mine too. 11 kids. why you like protect pardon me protect this is the one i would normally reach for for the immunity boost yes well they're being a fragile old guy well i will say well they do a lot they will not fix a broken wrist. It's funny. There's a lot of the essential oil business gets like, is there essential oil for that? And I think, you know, the problem sometimes I think what natural happens is trying to fight against is this perception that essential oils can do everything. Like, oh, if you struggle with X, Y, or Z, there's an essential oil.

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When you told me, my mom told me about Olivia being gay, and I know that her only concern, well, you didn't. Well, I was going to. I kind of blew it. Wait, you didn't? I thought she ran it by you. No, I just came, I remember being home. I was like, oh, I told Nick for you. I was like, I was going blew it. Wait, you didn't? I thought she ran it by you. No, I just came. I remember being home.

I was like, oh, I told Nick for you. And I was like, I was going to call her. That's fine. And I called her right away. But I will say my mom's only concern, you could tell, was make sure Olivia was OK. In terms of people's perception, it wasn't about what they would think of Olivia. It was very protective around Olivia.

It's not easy for someone to come out at 17 at a very early age. And I think that was very brave of you, like mom said, to be able to do that. And I do give my parents a lot of credit for, you know, you were nervous and scared. But ultimately, they must have done something to make you feel comfortable with the idea deep down to know that they would accept you for who you are and yeah because i've like they've always been like like again like my mom said like she they never really talked about that stuff they never talked about like sexuality we didn't talk about sex or talk about it it just wasn't a subject that we talked about we were not very so i wasn't sure but deep down was like, they're not going to kick me out of the house. They're not going to shame me as their child.

I knew that that wasn't going to happen. For example, when I lost my virginity, I was not going to tell my parents. I wasn't actively talking about the fact that I was sexually active in my early 20s and not married. I think my parents kind of knew. Actually, I think you did tell us. At some point, it was more like I was just kind of the kid who was in my early 20s and not married i think my parents kind of knew but at some actually i think you did tell us at some point it was more like i was just kind of the kid who was like in my early 20s i was like i'm an adult so like i'm just gonna like say it and see what happens you know where i just kind of decided i'm just gonna swear in front of my parents just kind of test the relationship like are we you're my parents but i'm an adult Like where, what is this? And so that was just kind of my personality

to just kind of say, fuck it. Let's, hey, by the way. Yeah, I give my parents a lot of credit. Again, part of it, I think it was based off a necessity of they had other stuff going on. So they didn't have the time to worry, honestly, about every little decision that we've ever made, but to our benefit that you didn't over-parent when we were adults. And so, I don't know, something I was always kind

of grateful for. Olivia, before we get into some fan questions, you know, I don't know how many young people listen to this podcast or the parents, but if there are any young people listening, you know, what advice would you give them or just how could people relate to the insecurities, anxieties that you had early on coming out and, you know, what you would encourage them to do? I understand that not everyone is as lucky as we are to have the parents that we have, but if they don't have that, what could young gay people who have that fear and anxiety do to make it that path easier?

I mean, I know that not everyone's the same with how it happens. Not everyone has the same parents. And it's not always an easy process. For me, it didn't go on for that long. I was able to tell my parents after three months after me coming out to myself myself like some people it takes years for them to do that um but i think that like don't let other your fear of other people's opinions like

keep you from coming out and being like who you really are because that's something that i worried about a little bit and like i think i would have came out even sooner than i did if i wasn't worried about what people would think like i was worried like once i came out to my friends like my friend group i didn't eventually i didn't care who knew but at the same time i did because i was like what are people gonna say are people gonna think differently about me and it's just like that's what like had me made like have so much fear is like what are people gonna think of me but when you do that it just you just gotta like accept it yourself and you don't have to come like come out to your like you can take time to like realize who you are like for me it was a quick process but it isn't like that for everyone so you don't have to come out right away you can take your time but

don't let other people's opinions be why you don't come out and do you think that's probably that's probably a lot of it i think that's a lot of people like i have i know people who have came out to me but they don't want to come out to other people because they're afraid of people's opinions and i think that's something that you just you got to try to get like past that and i know it's not an easy thing especially for you know depending on their background if they do come from a family background where it's total taboo that's that's pretty scary yeah sure yeah you know or or a community or whatever it is um that's pretty scary it almost would feel like you have to leave to be safe i mean what i mean you see that a lot i mean we grew we my parents live in wisconsin and

we it's it's midwest and more conservative and you i think you traditionally would see that in the past if you would if you were gay in the midwest or the south or more you would go to the more urban cities where they would you would have a more larger community you would meet other gay people and would feel more safe and accepted and you wouldn't you would let you know and you would have to abandon kind of like your entire childhood and life you know especially maybe it was only maybe your parents loved you but everyone else you felt like an outsider going to local starbucks and people looking you know i don't know i think that's still a you know definitely happened back in the day i don't and i've known of people who had siblings or relatives who they knew were gay,

but it's almost like they pretend that they're not. And often the ones that have been gay tend to move far away because then it's not in anybody's face. So it's not just out in the open. It's kind of like the dirty little secret kind of thing. And something I've noticed too, at least at my school, is there aren't many gay people in my senior class and the classes above me. But the lower classes, like the new classes that keep coming in,

there are more and more LGBTQ people. Coming out earlier? Yeah, like they're younger and it's getting more of a people are more comfortable with it, which is a great thing but like there aren't many people in my grade who are i'm one of a very few or at least people that are out and you think it's more people just haven't come out yet i guess what is it statistically one out of every 10 people are gay or something like that i have no idea so when you think about of a graduating class of 400, should be 20 to 40, you know, conservatively in that sense. I mean, and so that's kind of wild to think about how, I mean, you know, it's just something to think and consider because I couldn't imagine what it would be like, you know, for someone to have these feelings and views and be worried about

expressing yourself I mean so much of early childhood especially when you go through puberty you start liking girls as a guy or if you're a girl you liking guys and you're straight is to it's this exciting time and you talk about it with your friends and you kind of have this natural curiosity and you say crazy things and make mistakes and as a young gay person i i it would i would be scary to not be able to express yourself i couldn't really i truly couldn't imagine i think it also depends on the personality of the individual because i can think even back to when i was in high school there were people who i knew were gay but they were confident enough in who they were that

they were just they didn't care and people seemed to be somewhat accepting of it yeah i mean uh so what's your point i think because of who they were that's not to say that they were the only people who were gay but because they had the personality or the whatever it is where they could just say screw it this is who i am that's probably take it or leave it back then too because that comes with like an inner confidence but i think most people especially if they are gay especially in high school outsiders to have that would be yeah and in high school nobody really has a lot of confidence no i mean it's either it's like it's it's perceived but like yeah it's rare but i think there's just so many situations

in a child's life growing up not even just being gay but so many different situations where you as a parent you want to allow them to feel comfortable and it's hard as a parent because you you're trying to teach them certain things, but you don't want them to feel like they're being judged. And I guess from my parenting throughout all these years, I guess my goal would, if I could start over again, to be able to just, in every situation, have your child feel safe to come to you. And maybe that's just a natural thing for a child not to, whatever you do. I don't know. But I think for me personally, I think that I could have.

In any situation. Yeah. You just want them to feel free to come to you so they feel safe no matter what it is and to ever feeling judged. I mean, I guess that would be my suggestion too. How would you have done that differently then? I don't know, actually. Hopefully that I would just talk about it more and not have...

You know, all I can say is guilt and shame has a really big effect. And you personally, in raising children you know and there was a lot of it i mean you know wherever it came from i mean if i could just gotten rid of that i mean it's good to have a conscience but i think shame and guilt can control a lot. Yeah. And I think growing up, shame and guilt was a very prominent parenting tactic in general. Shame and guilt was like, that's how people kind of parented. Well, even on yourselves. I mean, you did that to yourself.

I mean, it was just a lot of that. I can think of a number of people who have told me that the worst thing that typically their dad could have said to them was, you disappointed me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's still to this day. And then when you really want to like fuck up your kid, that's what you say. You know, but sometimes, you know, that's the only say you know but sometimes you know that's the only maybe sometimes to reach because you can be disappointed sometimes and i think sometimes maybe if you are i think naturally as a person you feel nobody somebody but doesn't even have

to tell you that as a human being i think when you share something with somebody you automatically think oh did i disappoint them even if they didn't show that they were disappointed, it seems like it's a natural thing to feel. And you don't, you want to feel, you want to get rid of that feeling. You want to just feel like, yeah, they'll accept me. They'll, you know. I mean, like, I knew that mom and dad, like, one of their worries, like maybe not as much as I thought you did, was how other people would react and how I'd be treated.

I was very protective over you. Yeah. And I didn't really have many people have a problem with me being gay. I had two instances where I just had a problem with people who had a problem with me or just made jokes about it or, you know, like it's for me, I was very lucky in that sense. But I did. Who made jokes? I had someone who, I mean, I had someone who had graduated.

I knew him when... Knew them when I was... I met them when I was a freshman, like in band or whatever. And a friend posted something on their Snapchat story about, like made a joke about, because I had said something about... It had something to do with me being gay.

And he responded to the story like having problems with it and then like there was a whole thing like that like i was sleeping at her house and he just kept texting me about how messed up it was and how i really like it was wrong and like i just like he blocked me on snapchat he blocked my friend on snapchat he brought another friend and we're all on the spectrum and he blocked all of us and because like if you because we were gay you would get Blocked me on Snapchat. He blocked my friend on Snapchat. He blocked another friend. And we're all on the spectrum. And he blocked all of us because we were gay. You would give him that gay disease or something? Yeah. Do you have any idea why?

No. Apparently, I found out that night that he wasn't a fan of people who were gay. Apparently, he was widely known, and I didn't know it. And that's how I found out. He's not a fan. what does that even mean like he was but then again you also don't know where he's coming from i mean we're so quick to judge people we just don't know where he's coming from no i i get that you know and uh you know what's interesting to me is you know and maybe it has to do with my demographic but um i know a lot of people through work or associations that i are obviously either homophobic or racist or something and you still have to associate these with these people there's

a certain uncomfortableness you know there's times you want to go you know you're a racist and i actually have done it but i have to be careful because sometimes there's people there are people who may have authority over you or you know have an ability to affect you in a negative way very defensive the people who like i'm not racist i know a black person kind of um it can yeah it could be tough but i that's the thing though too is i think in today's world not that i want to get into racism or anything like that is i think as a society we we all have room to grow in terms of our understanding of other people's points of view. And I know I say this and my overall goal of this podcast

is to just continue to, and hopefully lighthearted conversations, continue to learn about a bunch of different people's perspectives, especially if we have people on the show with a different point of view to just kind of have a natural curiosity about, I wonder where they get this perspective from. And not that they're going to necessarily change your mind, but there might be something

we can learn from. And I think if we continue to become more open, even if it is kind of against the grain of what we tend to believe or what we were brought up to believe, that we can all continue to learn a little bit more about each other and just become generally accepting so that we can make our own choices about our points of view. And here we have, you know, two people in their early 60s who talk about still learning and still learning about life and other people throughout their 50s into the early 60s. And hopefully that's a good example

that we never stop becoming more aware of our people around us and our different points of view. And it's okay to, even if we thought one thing our whole life, I think sometimes we kind of hang on to that so it's like well i thought this my whole life i'm 45 now and if i were to admit that i was wrong that's a lot it's almost like this burden to be like well if i this almost gets like wait i've

thought this way my whole life and i now realize i shouldn't have thought that way that can be a lot sometimes on us and this uh hopefully we should lot sometimes on us. Hopefully it's liberating. Hopefully it's liberating. I don't know if everyone feels that way. Right? I mean. I think you need to be very grateful for anybody's opinion. You need to really embrace it and just take it in because.

It's hard. And you have to have a certain amount of humility. A lot. Yeah. Do you think we, us kids help you give that humility oh you taught us definitely over and over i i think i'm better at doing it to myself because i do a lot of stupid things so uh which uh did uh was that was olivia did you ever wonder if any of the other kids might be gay? Oh, yeah. Sure.

They said they thought you were gay during the break. Yeah, I had a time where I thought you were. You were one of them. Yeah, for sure. Especially, you know, growing up in Wisconsin, you taught me what metrosexual was when it started to become a thing. I've always felt different growing up in Milwaukee in milwaukee i always liked fashion i always liked to dance these are all two stereotypes that come with the gay community and i never i always

was defensive about the term metrosexual right i didn't like it because i was i was like i'm not not that there was anything wrong with it i'm'm not gay. I also like fashion and dancing. I hated the label. Like, why do I have to like be identified as something just because I like something and I, and I love sports, but I'm not a bro and I don't wear other guys jerseys on my back. And I, I'm not a bro. In fact, I'm going to go to the football game and I'm still going to give a shit about what

I wear. I might change three times before i show up to this football game and my friends would tease me for it you know i would have like i never forget once i went to opening day a brewer game and i wore a jersey but i wore a collared shirt underneath and my friends were like what the hell are you doing dude you know and i'm like i like the way it looks you know um and it kind of that always did bug me um but uh yeah growing you know i i definitely i definitely had a lot of friends kind of me like you know if you're gay it's cool man and i was like i'm not but i do still like this stuff um so i hope that's cool with you i mean that's something

too like at school people make jokes like oh that's gay and i'm like i don't understand when people that's something that like some people take like to offense it's like do you take offense to that now that you are that you're gay do you if someone says oh that's so gay because i mean i i've definitely done that i mean don't be gay dude you know when your friend especially your broey guy your guy friends oh i mean even the 40 year old virgin that was it's a funny part of the movie like you know how you know you're gay you know and again did you take do you i'm curious is that offensive to you is that something i think sometime i think it's sometimes it is and for some people it's not at all for some people is like people are like oh don't be gay and it's like because i think for a long time that was like

an insult to people i think it still can't i think it's more the source i think it's how it's intended you know it's supposed to be like an insult and i think that's where it's offensive is like people be like oh that's gay but it's like i mean sometimes it's not i think it just depends upon the situation again growing up at my age when i was bullied it was meant to be a bowling tactic and i was worried that if i was i was i'd be like well the last thing i'd ever want right you know and i think growing up in times that we did a lot of things that were accepted vernacular and are just no longer accepted you know and you couldn't you could say i had a science teacher in middle school that if you did something stupid he called you a dotard and he told you that was a combination of a dope and a

retard this is my teacher and it was fine nobody cared um you know nowadays you can't do that and i think you know should you but i think you know for people that grew up with that you don't even think about and sometimes i say things that are inappropriate and mary will smack me or whatever i say what what are you and Mary will smack me or whatever. I say, what are you doing? And like, oh yeah, I guess I'm not supposed to say that. I appreciate you saying that because again, sometimes part of learning is the people

who are more aware and knowledgeable to be willing to help people along the way. I think sometimes we do fall in the trap of, we'll criticize people, you know, someone who might make a mistake or might say something that isn't PC. And then they will get attacked and people get afraid. And not that they shouldn't be corrected, but I think if you are more aware of the proper way of saying things, be willing to help people out and not necessarily make field judge as long as they're willing to learn and listen. And I think that's a balance too, because sometimes

we can jump on people and, oh, and start accusing them and, and then, oh, you know, and so again, it's a balance on both sides that just try to become, you know, more aware and more accepting of others. So you guys are up for answering answering some questions i think we have some very relatable callers sure that maybe you could shed some uh some light on let's ask nick your sexy questions just a dance segment yeah Yeah, I start dancing. Hi, Ashley. Hi, how are you? I'm doing well.

Thanks for asking. These are my parents. Hi, Ashley. Oh, hi. Nice to meet you. This is my sister, Olivia. Hi. We do have names.

We're not just Nick's parents. Chris and Mary and Olivia. What is your question, Ashley? How can we help you? Okay. So I'm Mormon. I'm LDS. So our culture is really weird.

It's really common for people to get married young. Okay. And I'm 19. I'm still in college. I'm like a sophomore in college. And a lot of people are like, so when are you getting getting married and I don't want to get married anytime soon but now people don't want to date me because I don't want to get married anytime soon so I don't know how to navigate all right and you where do you go to college um I'm at UTah valley university okay and are you still like really i mean do you still

live at home do you live in the dorms where no yeah i live in dorms are are all the people you go to college with mormon yeah usually okay it's like so i live in provo which is like the center of mormonville basically sure so um yeah uh well we just spent a whole time my my i grew up very which is like the center of Mormonville, basically. Sure. So, yeah. Well, we just spent a whole time. I grew up very Catholic. I have 10 siblings. We're not Mormon, but probably some similarities, at least in just the kind of conservative aspect of our childhood

with expectations and traditions and things like that. So maybe my parents can shed some light. I mean, I don't know what you guys have to say about this. I know when I met Mary, I was 22 or 23, and I felt like I needed to get going. You know, it's like you're falling behind here as far as you know family-wise and that was kind of the at that time and now it's so completely different where you know people are getting married in their mid to late 30s or even afterwards and not thinking of starting a family

um and i don't think i would say that what it is now is probably a better a healthier way in that you know a lot of the people who raised families when they were that young didn't do so well. Maybe they didn't have the maturity or whatever. But maybe not. Maybe not. But that's why I want to wait, though, is because I feel like I am only 19. I still have a lot of growing up to do. So I feel like I still have a lot of work to do on myself,

but that doesn't mean I don't want to not date either. You know? Well, I think that's really mature of you to, to admit. I mean, I always kind of joke when, when,

um, like for example, when you're dating the person who's like, I'm super low maintenance and I'm not like, I'm immediately assume they're high maintenance. Or when the young person says, I'm very mature for my age, I immediately question their maturity. The fact that, you know, and then there's a self-awareness that you're showing that says, I'm only 19. I have a lot to learn about myself, shows a lot of maturity on your part. And I think

you should, you should not take that for granted and you should not dismiss that. You should protect that awareness that you have about your own self because a lot of people in life don't have that. And it might be tough in your community. And I can't relate, honestly, to how close of a community you have and the pressures that you feel. I can relate in a very open household of still feeling some of that pressure. So I can only imagine just how much you might feel it. But just protect that. I think you don't let other people convince you of what you should do with your life. You're an adult, but you're a young adult. And hopefully the people around you will respect that. And as you get older, I mean, once you're graduated from college, you probably can go anywhere.

And you may find that your people around you aren't the type of life that you want. You know, you can choose that for yourself and hopefully your family will be accepting if you decide to get married at 25, 26. I will say in terms of your dating life, while you want to date, and I'm, I mean, you are again, only 19 and you have the rest of your life to date. And it might not feel like that in the moment, but truly, even if you have a, you're not going to go to college forever and you probably don't want to, but when you graduate, whenever you're done with school, you will look back and be like all the things you could do in college, you will want to do again.

And so there are things right now as a 19 year old, you'll never get to do. You should really enjoy those moments. You will always be able to date. Always, regardless of, you know, there are people in their 60s who are single who are still dating. It's like going to bars. People are excited. They're like, oh, I want to go. I'm 21, so I go to bars.

Like, bars will always be there, man. So, like, and that will eventually get old. Really focus on the things that you know that as you get older, it won't be as fun anymore. So, just have fun. And if a guy comes along the way that is more open-minded, then date him. I would try not to stress about it. And I really wouldn't give in to what you know in your heart is something that you need to do and that's grow and you're not ready to settle down and you're not ready to get married. Don't do that out of feeling the

outside pressures of people who aren't you. I do have a question for you. Is there a belief or attitude in your community that dating is only a means towards marriage? Sorry, what was that? That you only date to find a mate. That you wouldn't date just... Oh, yeah. So that is the problem for you because you're not thinking of marriage

that kind of takes you off the market kind of a thing? Yeah. So I don't know if you all know about like LDS missionaries. But basically they go when they're 18, 19. And it's either you go on a mission or if you're not going on a mission, it's because you're getting married. And so it's very like you date to get married. That's it. That makes it tough.

Well, you should be really proud that you are looking out for yourself and that you realize that's it that makes it tough well you should be really proud that that you are looking out for yourself and that you realize that's about you because when i was 19 i wish i felt that way and i wish i felt i had the courage to even you know say it or realize it because you get really blinded by you know family or society or just, you know, I'm just really proud of you. So just embrace that and hold on to that and take care of yourself first because once you take care of yourself, you'll be happy.

Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, you're going to be fine. And yeah, I can't stress enough that it will always be boys for you to date. So it really gets old. No, seriously, though. I mean, I think every teenager feels that.

Not just that, but your relationship, whoever you find, will be very strong, stronger. Not that ours wasn't strong, but I know that if I would have just taken care of me first, I think that my life from then on would have been... She could have done so much better. No, I couldn't have. But you know, it's just within yourself.

It's really important to be happy within yourself because it'll affect any relationship you have. Yeah. Thank you so much so it sounds like you're doing the right thing you just have to have that conviction and not get discouraged not getting a lot of outside support yeah sounds like what was that you're not getting a lot of support from your community for your decisions you're feeling pressure and it's yeah but it's hard because um like any of my friends or roommates i've had have gotten married and they're like anywhere between 19 and 21 and so it's really hard to like keep friends because once they get married they're kind of just they kind of just do their own thing with their spouse

which is fine but it's really hard to keep friends for longer than a year. There will be a period of time in the near future where your friends will be maybe jealous of your life and freedoms and choices that you made. And maybe some not, but don't forget that. Okay. Cool. All right. Well, you're doing great uh hopefully that was helpful nice meeting you stay strong nice to meet you thank you it's nice to meet you too all right bye bye

bye well hi nick nice to meet you nice to meet you it's great it's a great name these are my parents chris and mary hi nick hi Good to meet you. Very knowledgeable people. And then my sister, Olivia, who may or may not offer some insight into your life. But how can we help? What's your question? All right. So I've been dating this girl for a little over a year now, and she's incredible. I love her to death.

I plan on proposing later this year toward the end of the summer. Um, the issue has arisen with her family. Um, they, she was brought up in a very conservative and religious household. So they have not, um, been thrilled with how our relationship has progressed, I guess. Um, they're cordial with me when we're together. Uh, but as soon as I leave, I get texts from my girlfriend about things they say. Um, They're always on her case and trying to guilt trip her into feeling bad. They've made comments about the way I was raised based on the kind of music I like. Things like that. Her brother even like went so far to say that he's not sure he'd be able to

attend the wedding if we got married because he doesn't think I'm the right person for her because we don't have the same beliefs. So I guess I have a two-part question related to that. One is, what do you think, is it important for a long and happy marriage to have like a really good relationship with your in-laws. And two would be, is this something I should confront them about? Um, or more so just bring it up in a discussion because up to this point, I've been biting my tongue because she's got enough to do with, with her parents on her case. I don't want to be adding fuel to the fire, but it's really starting to boil over for me. So I don't know if I should say something the fire, but it's really starting to boil over for me. So

I don't know if I should say something to them or just kind of let it go and hope it goes away in time. Well, I don't, I don't think it'll go away, Nick. No, I don't either. I think though that, I think the sooner you talk to them and just try to be really relaxed about it and without all this building up, cause the longer it builds up you know you're you things are going to come out but i would just try to have the most relaxing conversation even though it might be a little tense just be honest with them um ask them how they feel and try your hardest to accept whatever their thoughts are and opinions are and i don't know i would like to think that it would change a little bit i got a question for you nick um your your girlfriend um what where's where's her point

of view on your like the life that you guys choose to live together um is she a part of this is i guess what i'm saying is her brother thinks that she doesn't have the same belief system what is her belief system is it more aligned with yours or is it more aligned with the way she was raised yeah so um i think it has more to do with the religion so we're both christian just different uh nomination so really i've tried to explain this to her and she agrees like the majority of our beliefs are very very similar um so she she is a very faithful person which i appreciate like i i've been up front with her from the beginning like i never want her to abandon her beliefs you know because that makes who she is who she is um

so there he's concerned that because we don't believe the exact same thing, that it'll eventually cause us to clash. And we've had discussions about it. And we've agreed on when it comes to, like, raising kids in the future, how the marriage ceremony would be. Like, we've talked about it all. We're on the same page. Well, yeah, I think that's the thing that matters most. I mean, as far as her parents or especially her brother, there's sometimes just a fear of, you know, she's growing up

and she's starting to make her own choices that are going to be sometimes different than how she was raised. I actually have an opinion on this. Yeah. When you're done. I'm sorry. And she will, but like what's most important to you guys, it sounds when you're done i'm sorry and she will but like what's most important you guys it sounds like you're communicating and it any couple is going to grow as a couple um and you

know my parents if you listen this episode before you call in we'll talk about you guys you're throughout the years you will evolve and your beliefs will change and as long as you communicate and you're a team and you grow together that's what matters most it really no disrespect to her parents it's not going to matter in your marriage what their beliefs are as long as you guys talk about those things and it sounds like you are whether it comes to how you would raise your children wedding ceremonies you guys need to be on the same page and be respectful to her parents and their beliefs but ultimately it comes down to you two but she needs to kind of have your back too it's not fair to you for her to text you and i get where she's coming from because she's feeling like she's between the two i'm guessing but it's not really fair to you to like what are you going to do about

it like what can you do if if you're trying to be as understanding and supportive of her beliefs and love her for that all you can do is is keep supporting her and ask for their acceptance of you in her life they don't have to agree with everything you do but they do have to respect you and they should more importantly respect their daughter's choices that to know that she's not being manipulated by you. She is making her own choices with your support, and you guys will grow as a team. That was kind of my point, is that the relationship you have with her parents is really going to depend on her, in that she has to stand up for the relationship if she's passive about it and just listens to them and doesn't stand up for the relationship. If she's passive about it and just listens to them and doesn't stand up for the relationship

and doesn't say, this is what I've chosen, you need to accept it, that will never change. That's really up to her. But I think in time, the relationship that you have and you grow with each other, and what I hear, how you respect her, I think in time, her parents will respect you respect you i mean it's just what you show them and and believe i would what you have i would agree with my mom i think if you guys truly show

that you are communicating and you're not in any way you know she's her own person that i think it sounds like my guess is her family is responding out of this fear. And you just have to show them over time. They have nothing really to be afraid of, that she is going to be her own person and these are her choices. And it might be just tough for a few years and it might just be, you might feel like an outsider. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. All you can do is open to them, talk about to them. Hey, just to be honest, I love your daughter.

And this is where we, maybe it would behoove you guys to sit as a couple with her parents together and hear it from her about your relationship and the conversations you guys have. And they might not always agree with you, but you guys are doing it together. Right. But they need to hear it from her that these are her choices too, because it sounds like they think it's all your choices. And I wouldn't be afraid of the small differences in beliefs, because very often couples that have differences, who are able to communicate and accept one another, have stronger relationships rather than the ones who are just agreeing with one another all the time. Not just that, but I think your relationship will be an example to them someday.

It doesn't matter if they're the parents and they're older. It's just that you will be an example to them. Right, but if you're making her happy, that should be their main concern. Right. If the relationship causes their daughter to be happy, what more could a parent want? And not just that, but you complimented them just by saying that you love their daughter

because who she is and you don't want to change her. I mean, that's a compliment to them. So those little things. Yeah. Her dad actually, so we went on a road trip over the summer and he wasn't thrilled when he found out we were going to be staying in a hotel together. So he actually called me and we had a little bit of a talk.

It was our first like father of the ride sort of where he confronts the new guy. We were there. You didn't see us? I echoed some of those same thoughts to him. I told him, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I echoed some of those same thoughts to him. I told him that, you know, although he and I may have different beliefs, we both want the same thing and that's for her to be happy. So I, I, I tried to reassure him that there's nothing that I'm doing that is to the detriment

of her and that everything I do, whatever we're doing, I'm doing because it makes her happy. Um, and I, I, I have been trying to, I don't know how to really say it. I've been encouraging her to stand up for herself more and she's trying. Um, they, she, she lives at home currently. So it's tough because they did like tell her hey if you spend the night at his house again we might you know you're going to be kicked out of the house and stuff so like it it's been tough because she's still dependent on them sure um can i ask

how old you are well as i i learned this week that i might actually be relocating um down to arizona for work and uh she's going to be coming with me so we were going to have to sit down and talk with them anyway and let them know that this is what's going to be happening so i think this might be a good opportunity for us to just lay it all out on the table and go over everything we've discussed here well that's great i'm guessing you guys are what 22 23 i'm 25 she's 22 okay yeah i think the parents her parents are gonna have you know it's you're more or less telling them you need to choose whether you want to try and maintain the control or the risk of losing her or or become more accepting because that's the reality of it because if they push you away by by trying to manipulate her she's just going to hold that against them

but but i think you're really on the right i mean you just been you show that you're just you communicate with them and you share and you're very honest with them. And I just think that's such a big plus. I mean, for us as parents, you know, if I have someone like that coming to me as a parent and talking, you know, I may, because we were there, we were like, oh God, you're going to be sleeping in a hotel or you're going to be sleeping over it. I mean, we were there, but I think if I had somebody coming to me and sitting down and just sharing and being honest with me, I'd still might kind of feel the same way. But I would have such more. I'd feel much better about it and not so concerned, I guess, because I knew.

I don't know. It seems like you're a really great guy. I don't know you that well, but just by what you've shared and what you care about. Yeah, I would agree with my mom. You seem like a really stand-up guy. I appreciate it. Yeah, and I think you just, as a couple, you guys might have some tough moments, you know, and I think this is a situation a lot of young people find themselves in with very traditional

families. You're really just going to have to rely on each other and have to have a lot of young people find themselves in with very traditional families. You're really just going to have to rely on each other and have to have a lot of patience with each other. She will need to be her own person, and as long as you just let her be her own person and encourage her to have her own confidence, I think that's all you can really do. And, Nick, you're going to go through a lot of hurdles.

Yeah. But, you know, I mean, that's what's great. I think a lot of young couples today, as soon as there's a problem, you know, it's, I think they're either, I don't, I don't know, either afraid. I mean, I guess I am sometimes just to pass that hurdle. Yeah. I would also say that as a dad and we were far more conservative when we were younger, if you go to her dad specifically and probably her mom as well yeah and and just be honest you know you're going to do what you think is best you still respect him you may not agree with him and stand up and say this is what we want to do no disrespect but

we're making our decisions and hopefully he he's willing to um accept it i know for me that that would matter that would matter for me as a father yeah okay yeah and as long as you don't ever make her feel like she has to make a choice between her family and you then you're going to be fine and then that's going to be on them to whether they have to make but you're just always no matter what no matter how difficult her family might make it you just always show that patience and knowing that they're her family and they might not always make it easy, but it's, they're her family. So you respect that and you always have her back and you'll, you guys will, you guys will make it through.

Okay. Good luck, Nick. Nice talking to you. Thank you very much. I wish we could, I wish we could know the results of all this at the end. Yeah, well, give us an update, you know? Send us an email. But we appreciate your time, buddy,

and best of luck on the new job in Arizona, and congratulations on the future proposal. Thank you very much. I appreciate all the advice, and it was nice meeting you all. Thanks for calling in, buddy. Have a good... Take care. Bye-bye. Bye. Well, guys, I just want to thank you again for coming. I meeting you all. Thanks for calling in, buddy. Have a good. Take care. Bye bye.

Bye. Well, guys, I just want to thank you again for coming. I love you guys. And, you know, hopefully this episode was helpful to the people listening. I think the biggest takeaway for me is how we can always learn throughout life, whether we're parents or just people going through life. No matter how old we get, we can still be open to learning about others and different ways and different lifestyles. Olivia, thank you so much for being so open and honest and being brave at

such an early young age to come out. And hopefully people who are going through similar experiences, this will be helpful for. And it sounds like, you know, coming from you, just, you know, find someone you can open up to. Hopefully it is your parents, but if not, you know, maybe it is your youngest sister or a friend. And just, you should never feel alone, especially when you are going through something, you know that you you would tend to feel like an outsider try to find the people you trust and and confide in and find those people who make you feel safe and less afraid and um you know and and that can be difficult but try to find those people and uh and never feel alone so thank again thank you again for for being so brave and

i love you very much yeah you know for one last thing I want to say is I think having these experiences as a parent, having Olivia come out, having you doing what you're doing has, for us as parents, offered us experiences, offered us insight, offered us an opportunity for us to grow that we might not otherwise have had. So thank you both for that. All right. Well, it's a big love fest here. I'm glad I could help.

All right, guys. Well, we're going to go enjoy the rest of their time in LA. Thank you so much for listening, everyone. This has been another episode of I Have Fouls. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Feel free, and we'd appreciate if you liked this episode, your ratings on iTunes, five stars, and we would love

to get our five star rating back. Anyways, have a great week. All the best to you. We'll see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye.