The Viall Files - E188 A Friendship Built On Voice Notes Featuring Comments By Celebs

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

Today we are joined by Emma from Comments By Celebs for a little bit of a different episode this week. Nick and Emma developed a friendship by using voice notes opening up a conversation around how letting someone hear your voice can change the intimacy of a friendship or even a romantic relationship. For a little insight on their friendship, these 2 show us how they would would have a conversation in their real lives by breaking down some of the drama surrounding Call Her Daddy. In a time where we are all looking for ways to connect with people, this conversation about trying out a different way of communicating could bring us all a little more comfort.  “Re-conceptualize your friendships” You guys nominated us and now it is time to vote, so please go to https://pca.eonline.com/pop-culture/the-pop-podcast-of-2020 and vote for The Viall Files as your favorite Pop Podcast Of 2020 for The E! People's Choice Awards.   Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Best Fiends: Download Best Fiends FREE today on the Apple App Store or Google Play.  Noom: http://www.noom.com/viall to sign up for your trial today.  Natural Habits: http://www.nhoils.com use code KRISSY for 30% off your order  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @commentsbycelebs See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody we're back to what's going on and we stop at the high i like that the high makes me nervous what high yeah because i'm so used to you being like what's going on everybody that when you just go high i'm like oh to you being like, what's going on, everybody? That when you just go hi, I'm like, oh no, what's going to happen next? Well, I'm trying to keep you all on your toes. I hope you guys are having a great day. Whatever day that might be. Yeah.

It's going on in your life. Welcome to another episode of The Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick. My name is Nick. Nicholas. And I'm joined by my producer, Chrissy. How's it going, Chrissy? It's going good.

How's it going with you? You know, it's fine. Life's pretty fine. Pretty fine. You know, ebbs and flows. We have a fun episode for you. I think it's probably a little different than most of our Wednesday episodes.

My guest today is a dear friend, Emma, from Common Spy Celebs. If you probably many of you are familiar with that Instagram account, which is probably now a brand. It's hysterical. It's funny. If you don't follow, you should check it out. But we developed this very unique friendship over the form of voice notes. And I thought it would be fun to talk about it because I think people are looking for new ways to connect to different people. And while Emma is very much a platonic friend and we have developed this unique friendship, there's value in that. And I think sometimes we have to, as we talk about on The Vile Files, whether it's ASNIC or on some of our episodes, be open to exploring new ways to connect with people.

Sometimes we just get in a rut of doing the same thing over and over again. And it's also a little bit of insight into my life day to day, which I don't know if any of you give a shit about, but it's about a friendship that i have and uh hopefully it is a launching pad for whatever world that you guys are are living in your lives to maybe you know try new things out more intimacy in your friendships this way yeah it seems like so uh and then we kind of give an example of what our friendship is based on by talking about some of the nonsense that emma and i often talk about and one of the topics that

we shamelessly discuss via voice notes and our friendship is the uh behind the scenes of the call her daddy drama which is as you don't know is a very popular podcast also part of the Call Her Daddy drama, which is, as you don't know, is a very popular podcast, also part of the People's Choice nomination. Yes, it is. I'd love to beat Call Her Daddy. Yes, vote for us. For the People's Choice, vote for us if you want to. I'd really appreciate it.

But hey, we appreciate just being nominated, I guess. Also, voting does end this week. I hope you have been voting, so please vote. It means a lot. So if you have any interest so please vote yeah you know and it means a lot so if you have any interest in the caller daddy stuff uh we talk about our fascination with it break it down and uh i hope you guys enjoy that it's certainly different but we we had a lot of fun and excitement talking about it and it's always just nice to talk to a friend. And I hope that it gives you guys some insight into my world.

If again, if you give a shit, I don't know if they do anything else that we're leaving out Chrissy. I don't think so. Anything new going on with you, Nicholas, besides your voice note friendships. No,

not that I want to talk about. No, no. Anything new at the house. House is great. It's coming along. uh i'm gonna get a new tv today my dining table is being delivered tomorrow without the chairs things are coming along slowly i i've i've got blinds and and curtains coming very excited you talked to michael about blinds so i got a guy i don't know if it's the same guy but i got a guy it's a guy who's a friend of a friend, and she hooked me up with her blind guy.

I'm super into blinds and curtains, and I think it's going to really warm up the place. I got a combination of blinds and curtains. Well done. And it's really going to be a dream. We haven't had a house update in a while, so it's good to know. Yeah, I'm really... Are you loving it? Yeah loving it yeah no well then i got some pool problems um but overall you should get another pool boy it looks like didn't you put a video of you as a pool boy yeah well i can clean well pull a little bit but there's

some some plumbing that we have to take a look at, which is a little irritating. But life is fine. Life is good. People's choice. We're just obsessively. Obsessively. It would be so cool. It would be fine.

You know what? I'd be so happy for you. I'm just, I don't care at all. I don't. Not even a little bit you don't. Don't forget to subscribe, people. We don't remind you guys. Of all the things I remind you, we don't ask you to subscribe.

I hope that you do. I hope that you check out our Ask Nick's on Monday, our Bratcher Recaps. I hope you've been enjoying tuning in. I know there's a ton of podcast options out there. We appreciate you giving us a listen. Emma, thanks so much for coming on no thank you for having me i kind of feel like this is a long time coming it totally has um to put it in some context for our audience as i mentioned in our intro uh emma is one of the two people behind the very popular is it just limited to Instagram account or just the brand

comments by celebs yeah we're trying to do a media company so I say brand yeah and it's something that I followed as a fan before I got to meet Emma and Julie. And I went on their podcast. I think that's how I went on your podcast. And honestly, I think it was something, I don't know if I reached out directly. I was like, hey, I'll be in New York. I know you guys have a podcast. I want to meet you guys.

Or when was the first time we communicated? Yeah, that's what it was. You just DM'd me. You were like, hey, kind of a long shot, but I'm going to be in New York. We're like, oh, we'd love to have you. And that was a long time ago, though. It was probably almost a year. It was right when I started Vile Files. So yeah, it was the beginning of 2019. And then we met. We had like a fun, I don't know what we talked about on your podcast out of good time um and and then like i left and somewhere along the line and that what's interesting is like emma and julie are very um you're very cautious about your anonymity right in terms of kind of

developing your brand which i always thought was really interesting and respected, but just there is, there is a method to the madness, so to speak. Yeah. I mean, technically I guess it's not anonymous because, you know, people know who we are and names are out there, but we kind of just made a really conscious decision when we started this that like, we personally didn't want to have any fame. So, you know, our personal accounts are private. We don't do any sort of video stuff. Like it's just not the way that we wanted to build the brand. I think the idea of fame was kind of intimidating and scary to us. And also I think we felt there was a longer, just kind of a longer length if it wasn't so much about us content wise. So yes,

it's definitely a conscious decision. Yeah. So I just always thought that was kind of interesting. So like when I, what was fun about that is that, you know, when I met you two, there was as much curiosity about the people behind the account, right? Because before I met them, there was always just this correspondence, like whether it was like responding to each other's comments just on social and there was the dm and there's always a fascination there it's like the person behind the curtain the odds of it all and do you i'm assuming you get that reaction from a lot of people it's actually so funny because we'll be at you know just an event or something and people will meet us and you can see on their face they're trying to not show the facial reaction but then they'll finally just say to us like wow this is not what i was expecting like before people knew we had a podcast they're

like i thought you were just some guy in your mom's basement like why what other reason would you have to be so anonymous like when we're when we're seemingly normal girls it's so funny early on people were shocked by that yeah you're like the daft Punk. Like the Wizard of Oz, though, kind of too, right? Yeah. But there's a charm there. And obviously, I don't know if that was your goal when doing it, but there's been this kind of, as you guys, as the brand builds and develops and there's a curiosity there, there becomes more interest in the people behind it, and then that's kind of an added hook or a fascination that people might have like the SIA of it all

yeah yeah yeah like it was kind of an unintended byproduct I guess I think that's why you know for us that's why we wanted to start the podcast because even though it's just audio which I mean I'm sure you agree I find that to be a really intimate kind of form of communication. But it was much more of a long form way for us to connect with our audience and kind of give more of a voice to just the content. So I think that's probably a part of why people may like the podcast. You know what I mean? It's a little bit more of an intimate look behind who's running the account. Yeah. And then still like the fascination of like, I guess to your point, if people really want to know what you guys look at like you're not you haven't gone above and beyond to really try to be anonymous

but you just don't push it out there and like people have to seek it out to figure out who you are that's our joke we have like three rotating pictures that we use for interviews with magazines or with articles or anything like that so it's's kind of like, I'm sure people have seen roughly three to four photos and I'm fine with that. Yeah. So anywho, so after I did their podcast and, um, M and I kind of struck up this friendship, which really just started by, you know, occasionally, uh, responding to posts and comments. Once in a while, I would comment on someone else's Instagram. And, you know, I don't know if it's Emma or Julie. Here's what's even more funny. And I don't even know if you know this, Emma, is that after when I first DM'd you guys, I DM'd, obviously, as you know, the comments by the celebs account,

right. And, and then I met you both. And then when I left, whatever correspondence I had was through your Instagram account account comments by celebs. So I didn't really know if I was talking to you or Julie at first, you know what I'm saying? Like I was just talking to one of you too. And either way, either one, I was like, fine. Like, you know, I met you both. So like there was a level of trust, I guess. But like I really didn't know who was who. That's so funny.

Yeah, people say that all the time, unless I'm communicating in voice notes, which as you know, I do a lot of. But the way that Julie and I kind of split up our roles is I handle all DMs. Like any sort of communication, whether it's email or DMs, that's usually me. So it is funny when people say that they're like, I don't know, I was kind of just talking to everyone. It's answer, answer.

I'm like, it was me, but that's okay. Totally. That's like, that's exactly how it was. And then, and yeah, so you guys would either use my comment or whatever and then there were a couple times where i don't know what it was for but we started corresponding through dms via voice note which you definitely started because it's kind of your thing and and then i was like this is fun i mean i voice note with a few other people it's always like oh i always forget voice note exists until someone does it i'm like you know what this is this is like a fair way to communicate because i'm bad at texting i can't spell for shit um and

you know like why why do i give people the opportunity to critique my texting ability when i can just like voice note it but it's i'm always do only doing it if someone else does exactly it's so one of those things where you're, sometimes it kind of takes a little to be the first one to do it. And then once you do, you're like, why am I not always doing that? I honestly, to anybody listening, if you're annoyed with texting, just try a voice note and you will see the person in response will really like it. It is such an efficient and intimate and like easy way to communicate. Yeah. It's really, it's really it's yeah, it's it's great because you can just the inflection that you have, the excitement or or the disinterest or whatever feeling you are feeling is definitely resonated through like obviously the voice note. Right. the phone because it's just like a statement or a fact or an opinion that someone can respond to immediately or in five minutes or like they can think about what you just said and like let me

you know let me give it some thought and marinate that on that and then respond it totally changes the dynamic of the conversation which is all kind of fascinating oh completely i actually think now that i'm thinking about it because as you talking, I was trying to remember how we actually started like becoming friends. And I think what it was is I think in the beginning you started to like, and I was really flattered by this, maybe utilize me in a little, it's like a creative consultant in a way. Like if there was a post you weren't sure about, or you wanted like a second opinion and you kind of would ask me. And I remember being like, okay, he doesn't know me that well yet. I do it in a voice note because if you hear me texting it it's gonna come across not the way that i want it and that's like why this all started now that i'm thinking about it you guys

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That's N-O-O-M dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. And that's when I really started to form this friendship with Emma because you know how sometimes you ask someone's opinion and they're just like, yeah, sure. Totally. And you're like, okay. Well, I was hoping for a little bit more of an in-depth critique. And if you, as my listeners You know, and you're like, okay, well, I was hoping for a little bit more of an in-depth critique, you know? And if you like, as you know, my listeners might know, and Chrissy knows, if you ask my opinion, I'll put things down. I'll be like, all right,

lay it on me. Tell me what you think. Let me think about it. All right, here are my thoughts and I'll break it down. Right. And so Emma does that exactly like how I do that. And then we really quickly struck up like a rapport because I was like, oh, this is someone who's like feedback I can really use because she really appreciates being asked some, you know, their advice and will really put in the time and effort. And to me, that's a very valuable thing. I have a handful of people in my life who do that. And so it really kind of struck up this friendship specifically and only via voice note. Because both of you love to critique things. Kind of. Yeah.

Yeah. No, you're so right. That's such a good way to put it. It's like sometimes you ask someone's opinion, they'll give you back a one-liner and I'm just I'm genuinely not capable of that like I just someone asked me a question I really want to dive deep and I said this to you before but like you know we've had this conversation a lot of times before I really knew you like I think there was this completely untrue perception that I had of like I don't know what about him maybe he's a bit of a dick I didn't know like that's what of what I thought. And then I saw this side of you when we first started talking and I was, like I said, kind of maybe your creative consultant in a way. And it was a much more vulnerable, incredibly self-aware side. And I was like, wait a second,

what I had in my mind is completely untrue. And so I think it was actually crucial to developing the like relationship that we have. Yeah. I mean, literally just that conversation before we started. It's just exhausting. I exhaust myself. You exhaust yourself. Misunderstood, Nick. Anywho.

So, yeah. um misunderstood nick anywho um so yeah so like we just and then that that's kind of what made us think about doing this episode because there's always some topic that we'll generally have around things and we're in this time of uh a pandemic 2020 and even before the pandemic the way social media is there's a lot of downside to technology that we've you know are we talk about but people are like lonelier and lonelier right people talk about different forms of relationships and here m and i and i over and what's so like just to put it in context so then we developed this like friendship right we would we would be sending voice notes again what started with me being like hey what do you think about this and then there are a couple times which be like well what do you think about this and then it just kind of turned

into like things going on in the world pop culture shit like dumb shit like things that were just like hey are you like paying attention to the news and then one of us would be like, Oh my God. Yes. And then we would spend, you know, 30 minutes, 30 minutes or an hour, but like breaks. Right. And then we would just be like on a voice note,

I'm not a hundred percent sure if I was walking down the streets of Manhattan where Emma lives and you bumped into me and like, what's up? I would like immediately know who you were because like i you know like i had met them once they're not like out there i didn't we didn't follow each other on like maybe from her voice i would think yeah i would definitely it would what i'm you know it'd be like that six seconds where she'd be like hey what's up and i'd look at her with this glazed look be like what the do i know you and then be like oh my god you know but i would it would

that's what would happen and then because like i i was getting to know this person getting closer with them and it was kind of this fascinating social experience for myself and then like you know we follow each other on instagram and again it was always this like unique friendship right like and i want to stress too because, there's so many different types of friendships and relationships that people have, right? And I think now in a time where people are getting lonelier, we have a way of kind of judging what types of relationships are or things like, and we have a, we don't always embrace the type of friendships that come our way.

we don't always embrace the type of friendships that come our way. And for me, this was like a, an intermittent friendship that would, you know, and sometimes we like, we wouldn't have any communication for like two weeks. And then there would be one of us would be like, Hey, are you following this shit? Like, and, and then we would like kind of catch up. Emma has her life. I have my life. We're not like ride or dies, you know, like there's,

she has her romantic relationships and, you know, I do my thing. And you know what I'm saying? Like, so like, it's kind of this unique friendship that it's, but it's also something I've really grown to value. And I think it's like, I think there's a takeaway there for, for people who are, are trying to look for different ways to connect with people. Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, I so agree with everything you said. And I also think, like, during this time, I mean, we kind of, I think we're talking pre-pandemic. But, like, during this time, you really have to start to reconceptualize what you view as, like, your friendships. Because seeing people as frequently as you wanted to just isn't going to happen. And so for me, I feel like just being open to that

idea of like, maybe it's coming in a form that I didn't necessarily expect. However, is it adding value to my life? Like that's the way that I personally evaluate my relationships. Is this adding value to my life in some way? It doesn't have to be the deepest way in the world. Is this the person I'm going to go to if I break up with my boyfriend? No. But is this someone that I really have like very intellectually stimulating, fun conversations with and like sometimes, you know, can make my day? Yeah. And so to me, I think it's all about just like redefining what we view as like communication with friends, you know? Totally. Right. And it's a kind of a non-traditional way, but you're right in terms of, does it add value? Right. Is it a way to, I mean, there have been nights where I was just like

bored and I had like nothing to do. And then there was a thought of like, you know who I haven't talked to via voice note in a while? Like I would never call Emma ever. Like I would never call her. I would never FaceTime her. It'd be just be fucking weird for me i don't know if you would even answer but i'd like i'd voice note you and i'd be like i'm gonna have a great night because i'm gonna talk to this person about like something that i'm interested in and we tend to have a same the same interest and it tends to be a very feel-good experience in a very specific way again it's like it has a very specific niche for like, I think the both of us, that's like completely outside of our normal day-to-day life, like our

romantic relationships that we have or our friendships that we have. And it's just like another vehicle of friendships, which I feel like, I don't know, in a world where like, don't dismiss that if you have a chance to have those types of friendships. Clean air, baby. Clean air. It couldn't be more important. We also want to smell good. We want to have our house smell good.

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the car too yep so i have it in my purse i could go get it out for you um be healthier be organic usda or essential oils natural habits you're welcome now there is a a caveat to this type of relationship that we're suggesting you might be open to. Have met this person in real life. Because like this is really potential of a catfish opportunity, which is so bizarre. I will say, you know, that's the scary thing about catfishing is like, again, here's this person that I've struck a friendship with over like a not being sure entirely who was who at first but like going along with it but i had met them and etc etc as we just all explained but like i had met emma like i knew she was a person i knew she ran an account and like just be careful

when uh when you meet someone on a dating app or online this on your dm like make sure like you know there you facetime them at least once or like their camera's not broken because like that i don't want to be advocating for like catfishing happening no that's like i feel like the way we're talking like neve shulman is listening and he's going to do like a psa on this episode of like do not listen to a fucking word they said so yes that's a very important clarification definitely know. Definitely know who the person is, but I'm telling you, like I say this to people all the time and I tell you, we've gotten hundreds of DMS cause I say it so much on the podcast of people being like, thank you for telling me about voice noting or like for making me use it because now I've developed such close relationships. I know it sounds like minor, but I'm telling you

guys, try it. You're, and also by the way nick and this does not apply to us because like our friendship is very platonic but sexually i have had some of the most explosive communications sexually with people because what you can say in a voice note you can't say in a sext and like it's a whole other world yeah i i totally agree i was literally just about to say this. Em and I are very in tune with our brains. We do that a lot. We're in total agreement. But I was about to say that, yes, our relationship is exclusively and very platonic. But I was about to suggest to the people listening, in an early dating situation, if you want to try something new, voice notes is a really great way to communicate and it and again it's it's unique

it's different than texting it's different than facetime it's different than getting on the phone and and calling it's just like this slow burn and kind of an asmr type of like thought process can you save voice notes you can they usually just go away unless you do save them uh they're there until you listen to them right yeah yeah man are you are you asking this because like you want to like say something really nasty and dirty but you don't want it to be there forever in your voice well maybe yeah that's fine i mean that's you know what i'm saying it's like well i might feel that way right now but do i want somebody to play that for their friend at the bar later? Probably not. I mean,

do you have an answer to that? My thought is one, if you're voice noting with someone in early dating situation, slow burn it, like let don't sext or voice note sex or talk dirty right off the bat there, build some trust. True. And then when you do start doing that,

like just don't have them like build this, like, Hey, we're not, we're, this is a safe zone. We're not saving these type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, don't have them like build this like, hey, we're not, this is a safe zone. We're not saving these type of thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't admit to a crime, you know. No, it's a great question. And people, this is like a really important thing to know. In your settings, you can put on whether if you have an iPhone, if you want to always keep them. So like if you notice anytime you send me something, it says kept. And for me, that doesn't happen with you. And I say to you sometimes if you say something like, I just want you to know I'm deleting

this. So don't worry. That's just my natural setting. But yeah. Oh, my God. I you're right. Definitely proceed with caution. But I don't know.

I've gotten some serious testimonials from people being like, I just changed my sex life. No, totally. And again, like it's a way to really slowly get to know someone, right? Because think about in an early dating situation, like sometimes there's this pressure of like, you know, when, when quarantine started, right? There was this like, Oh, let's zoom date. This is, I'm going to embrace quarantine. Like we're going to zoom or we're going to FaceTime date. And then you get, maybe your first conversation's a good 30 45 minutes maybe it's an hour and a half i don't fucking know maybe we're just but then like the second or third time you kind of run out of things to talk about

and in no and no matter who you are you kind of like wonder yourself like oh i'm like do we not vibe or whatever and sometimes it's just like too much too soon right sometimes there's this pressure of having this conversation the beauty of a voice note is that you can just be like driving and be like hey i thought about this and i wanted to share it with you what do you think and then maybe they get back to you right away or maybe in 30 minutes right but like it's it's a long drawn out conversation and you can have like a really neat topical conversation that you could maybe get done if you had to in 20 minutes on the phone. But you do it over the course of a day in voice notes, and it just kind of like drags it out in a kind of nice, slow burn way all while you get to know

someone. Yeah, the way the best way that I can put it is it's like the best parts of your phone call put into this like very kind of concise version that somebody can open on their own time. Like that's the best thing. The pressure of deciding when to talk on the phone or when to FaceTime someone is exhausting or can be exhausting. And the casual nature of this and like it being so pointed and so on your own time, oh my God. Like I feel like I just want so badly people listening to take this in because it just it changes things it's a game changer no it really is and again platonic or otherwise it's just a unique way to communicate with someone that it really is something that

shockingly hasn't been discovered um one of the conversations that uh lately uh One of the conversations that lately Emma and I have just really talked at length about, and we thought we would break it down for you guys since it's topical to at least, well, a large group of people, is the Call Her Daddy drama that's been going on the past several months. And I only bring this up just because this is a is a perfect example of, um, I'm certainly interested. I've certainly been followed. I, I, but it's like, for me, it's become this thing I don't really ultimately care about,

but it is a fascinating thing because not only do I know both the women, they are guests on my podcast. Uh, this is in an industry and it's in the podcast industry there's so many things that i am interested in as well as emma and so like it's for me like a tv show of something i don't really care like it's it's water cooler talk and emma is that friend i have where we just like we will break it down and a very objective way without like, there's no sides. There's no like there's, you know,

there's no like, um, I'm not a fan of the show that they have in the sense where like, or like a bachelor fan, like a lot of fans will pick sides, which is what's going on in that world. But it's just been this really fun thing that we both talk about. Oh,

exactly. We're not personally invested. You know what I mean? There's no emotion behind the conversation. It's much more like, and I think that this is relatable to a lot of people. Like it's just a fascination because, and you know, when all this drama came out, we did a full breakdown, like an emergency breakdown on our podcast about it. I think seriously, like I had a, you know know 17 page outline that i made of like every i

transcribed things it was intense um she's very thorough very she is the uh is she a virgo are you are you a virgo i'm a libra i'm a libra so am i yeah yeah that makes sense that actually makes a lot of sense um she is the play-by-play and i'm the color commentator because like she will definitely give me the let me break this down for you which is kind of the role I feel like you and Julie play on your podcast yeah no definitely and that's something you know we because Julie a lot of times will do like Julie makes the actual outlines and then I'm the one that kind of breaks it down and then we get into a discussion we're just better we just work better like that um but you know something about this story that I think,

you know, let's say you don't care about either of these people. You weren't a listener of the show. At the very core of it, the thing that was so unique here that we do not see a lot, we see people fighting. Okay. We see drama. What we do not see a lot is the way that this, from a business perspective, has been broken down so transparently to us. You know, like you have Dave Portnoy, who is the head of a huge media company, getting on. This is back when the drama was happening in May, right? Getting on the Call Her Daddy feed, doing an entire episode, breaking down the behind the scenes of a business deal. So you have a very legitimate, very lucrative business playing out like a reality show. That is not something we see that often. And that is why I think men, women alike,

non-binary people, everybody is just so interested in this. Before all this drama started, I looked at the show and people who talked about it, even the women, I asked a lot of questions. It's because you're just trying to learn, right? And I thought, I wondered, well, how much money do they make? You know, do they own their IP? What is their contract? Are they getting paid as we always keep hearing from the women who keep talking about this compensation is like fair market value and things like that. And I remember thinking to myself, I bet they're not getting paid. My guess was the show got too big so fast that they're probably on the short end of the stick as far as their deal was concerned.

But that's part of the success that they had overnight, right? Oh, totally. I mean, nobody anticipated it was going to get this big. You know, it was kind of a, in retrospect, it makes a lot of sense because what they were talking about at the very, you know, at the very, very beginning, like, and again, you don't have to be a fan of the show. There was a shock value there. It was, it was these two attractive women talking in really vulgar detail about sex and whether or not you liked the content or consumed it, you can at least understand why it was like addicting or entertaining or shocking.

And so looking back, it actually makes so much sense why it was such a big success early on. But yeah, they had no idea that infrastructure wasn't there for what was about to take off. It was kind of like Barstool taking a chance on this podcast, putting all of their advertising power behind it. Of course, it was Alex and Sophia that made it happen. You know, it was them that were doing the magic. But the combination of everything was not, I don't think, what any of them, anyone, Barstool, Alex, Sophia, anyone else expected.

Totally. And so it was like to that end when Dave was talking about like the contract, you can think what you want, but when he was talking, I was, while thinking they're probably not getting paid what they, deserves a tricky word because I just, you know, in a ratio of terms of their download versus like people in the industry,

what they might be making, I assume they had kind of a shitty contract. But that's not necessarily their fault. And it certainly wasn't Barstool's fault, right? It was like, hey, well, it blew up so fast. And you hear what Dave would say, and you're like, well, I don't know. Why does he have to give money away he doesn't have to type of thing? And so it was such an interesting thing because Alex and Dave were talking a lot more than of thing. And so, you know, it was, it was such an interesting thing because Alex and Dave were talking a lot more than Sophia was. And to Sophia's detriment, that's where you, you felt like a lot of the tide was shifting in terms of like team Alex and this, all this drama

that was going on behind the scenes. Yes, that's exactly what was happening. Cause back, you know, back in May when all of the drama was really going down, I'm not going to do a whole rundown because I think if you're listening to this, you kind of have an idea. But let me just give you one minute to bring you up to speed. This whole thing goes down in fucking flames. Dave Portnoy, the president of Barstool, gets on the call her daddy feed before anyone else speaks and breaks down exactly what happens. He was really in a bad place with Alex and Sophia. However, he had worked out this deal with Alex. Okay. That happens.

We then see Alex release a full YouTube video outlining play for play exactly what happened. And her story and Dave's story were exactly the same. She does, you know, she's been in media for a while. So she does this YouTube video. Well, she says, guys, from now on, I'm solo hosting the show. The only communication that we got from Sophia in this time was one Instagram story where you could tell she was terrified. Understandably. So this girl's going through the emotional distress of basically the entire Internet coming at her. at her. And then what made it so additionally interesting was that Sophia's boyfriend and kind of the irony of this entire situation is like their entire podcast was based on like, fuck men, you know what I mean? Men are trash, no way. And then Sophia's boyfriend was the one who,

from the story we were initially given, caused the downfall of this. He got involved in a place that he maybe shouldn't have. And he was then target he was you know barstool was putting out merch fuck suit man it was this whole entire hate campaign against sophia and her boyfriend and the whole the irony of it was like men aren't even supposed to ever fuck up friendships that's what they had preached so the internet went into a fucking tailspin over this entire situation yeah no and that was just kind of the fascination of it all is this. And we've talked about this. What was what was fascinating, I think, for you and I was wasn't so much the podcast itself. But again, it was the reality TV feel of it. Like what these women seem to create wasn't a podcast, but it was a reality TV show in podcast format. You know, they talked about

their lives so much much like so much of their content wasn't about like yeah they gave advice but whether it was scripted as as sophia had suggested or it was authentic stories it was it was a storytelling about like i've done this shit this was is what happened when this happens to you well this is the craziest shit we did and it became like this show right it just became this show that you were just like it was it's like it was a kardashian thing right it was and it was fascinating that way where like you just every week you tuned in to like what's going on in sophia and alex's world these days and that was what's, you know, to me, that was like their

secret sauce. Oh, totally. Because that's what really elevated it. You know, it's one thing to hear two, let's say, faceless, nameless people talking about this stuff. But then the added bonus of like, wait, they're not only going to talk about it hypothetically. Now we're going to get the inside scoop of what's going on in their lives. And I think people became addicted to that. Now we're going to get the inside scoop of what's going on in their lives. And I think people became addicted to that. Like you said, it was a reality show in podcast form. And there was that whole fascination. So then when their friendship kind of collapsed, people felt really territorial, which side

or the other. And then like this is this happening is what made us, I think, do this segment of the episode because on October 9th, after Alex's first solo episode, just for context, aired on May 26th, okay? October 9th, so that was months later, Sophia comes out with her first solo episode. She's a new podcast, Sophia with an F. Which we all kind of knew was coming, right? It was just a matter of like, when is Sophia going to show back up with a podcast? Exactly. I think we were all kind of waiting for it. She was gone for a while, so some people thought maybe not. And she names her first episode, Sleut, a short autobiography. Keep in mind, the description of her episode was basic, greedy, lazy, submissive, weak-minded,

and that's just a little bit about me. So if you are somebody that's been following this, when all of the drama went down, that's what she changed her Instagram bio to. So when people saw that description on her episode they were like oh shit what is she about to say and i think you know we'll get into her episode in a second but i think her coming back was what you and i we just went into like we have to talk about this yeah because it was like you know from a strategy standpoint it was like what we were really curious of what of what did Sophia come up with in these past few months and what is she going to say? I wasn't so much interested in what she was going to say because I wasn't invested as some of their just the podcast aspect of like what decisions were, how are they going to both respond to this drama that they willingly or unwillingly found

themselves in? Are they going to use this to like, you know, market their own show? Are they going to try to get away from it? Like that was all the fascination. I think, I feel like both of us have, but certainly that I had. Oh, totally. I probably was a little additionally interested because I had listened to the show, I think, more than you had. But yeah, completely. We're also podcasters. Like we said, neither of our podcasts, thank God, we're so grateful they do well, but they're

not Call Her Daddy level at all. So it was kind of like you're interested on all angles, on the podcast angle, friendship wise, et cetera, for me. Like you're interested on all angles, on the podcast angle, you know, friendship wise, et cetera, for me. So she drops this episode and you guys have to understand like before it even went live when it was just her kind of teaser, she already had 21,000 reviews, 21,000 ratings. For a 60 second episode, basically a trailer.

Like my, yeah, that's my, I still don't have 20,000 reviews. Right. Like that's unbelievable. That's why my point is like, you don't have to like them. You can absolutely hate the content. You have to at least appreciate the enthusiasm of their followers. Yes. Okay.

She, she drops this episode and basically she says, you know, guys, I'm back. I'm back in my hometown of Salt Lake city, Utah. I'm recording this out of my mom's closet, which is relatable to me because that's normally where I record my podcast from. Um, closet, not Salt Lake city. No, no, no. My mom's closet. Yeah. Um, and she, you know, gives a little bit of an update. She speaks about the toll that the entire situation took on her. And she then, and I think what everybody was the most curious about how she was going to handle it, did an entire section dedicated to Alex. And in it, she spoke directly to Alex.

She read some of their text messages, exchanges, some that she texted Alex didn't respond to. She said, how did you let an entire media conglomerate form this attack against me? She said, you know, basically that Alex would, these are her words, that Alex would topple over anybody just to get her way. She then brings up MILF Hunter, who was a male perspective they had brought into the show early on. And in this first episode, Sophia claims that, you know, Alex had a huge falling out with him. We learned to find out that he actually worked at Barstool and has since had a falling out with Barstool as well.

So now you have Sophia and this male perspective that was kind of a behind the scenes on the show, on one side, Alex and Barstool on the other. And Sophia continues to go about saying, my boyfriend had nothing to do with that. You know, how the fact that people thought that I would let him make decisions for me is total bullshit. She says she's never going to speak of Alex or

Barstool's name again. And she then kind of in, you may criticize the decision, but you can at least appreciate the honesty of when she says, to be honest with you guys, I have no idea what the show is going to be. And she kind of just rambles. And I don't mean that negatively. I'm saying like, she really didn't know. And I think that, that you know at the very least you can respect her honesty and her transparency in the rest of her episode yeah it was all kind of interesting for me when I you know and Emma was like she knew I was like I might not listen the whole thing but she insisted that I do so we could talk about it so I did and I will say like I didn't know what to expect but i was captivated by obviously the segment of sophia talking about alex and almost and more so because again for a period of time it was only alex and

dave talking about sophia and we didn't see anything from sophia other than this instagram story which she quite frankly didn't say anything right and and it didn't help out Sophia right so here you have Alex and Dave being very articulate and very specific about the story their stories line up and then Sophia comes out and doesn't really say anything which it came across quite frankly is she does nothing to say because you know Dave and Alex are right but yet then she comes back and has a very very very specific and thought out approach. And she said some very, very direct things about Alex, which, you know, was more like, and then I thought to myself, well, this whole time, I guess I was, I don't want to say team

Alex, but I appreciated Alex's point of view only because I was only hearing Alex's point of view. And then all of a sudden, Sophia had a new point of view only because i was only hearing alex's point of view and then all of a sudden sophia had a new point of view and i thought to myself i wonder how many of the call her daddy fans did sophia you know give a moment of pause too right when they finally heard sophia how many call her daddy fans were like oh oh well maybe i don't't know. Because when it was going on, they were probably 50-50 in terms of the fans loved them both equally is my guess. I don't know. And that was kind of fascinating.

How did people react to that? No, totally. And okay, so the thing here that's so interesting to me, and I personally, I find that just to be a better podcaster, I try to look on Reddit and on Twitter just to see what everyone's saying. And a kind of consensus that a lot of people think is the way that Alex laid it out, she was attacking Sophia's business strategy. She was attacking the fact that she allowed her boyfriend supposedly to get in the way, and she was attacking the way that it went down from a business angle. Sophia on her podcast was directly attacking Alex's character.

And so while, you know, on Sophia's podcast, she says you allowed a character assassination against me. That's true. She, there was a whole hate campaign against Sophia. However,

it was much more targeted at like the stupidity in her apparent decision making when it comes to business versus Alex got on. I mean, Sophia got on and said, Alex is not a good person. She ruins any relationships. She'll step over anyone to get to the top. And I think what I was seeing on Twitter, because I'm kind of like just an innocent bystander watching this all go down. There were definitely some people that had a little bit of a shift, some not. Some are going to be diehard Alex stands. But i think some people were like wait a second you're right yeah i mean it was clear that you know you even look at some of the reviews it was like a lot of five star reviews and a lot of one star reviews and the one star reviews you know

that like you talked about the people who gave one star reviews before they heard the episode were people who were like i'm gonna do this for alex like it was an unobjective like you know look at all like the the the wars between uh the selena gomez fans the taylor swift fans you know like it's it's just uh they're just supporting their girl you know whoever their person is and so and again you can say what you want but there is the enthusiasm there. That's the currency, the excitement. You want people to give a shit. Like, you know, I want people to care about my show. You don't even have to agree with me.

I just want them to care. And what these two women have for these respective shows is people who just give so much shit about it. And that's fascinating. And here we are. I mean know on our voice notes just be like i don't totally get it but i'm impressed it's just wild you know exactly oh my god i mean for those of you that are on tiktok i don't know if your feeds look like what mine was i was trying to tell nick and i'm not on tiktok as much but yeah yeah you weren't as but

for me it's like you know you're on this massive platform and every single video after video is just people discussing it and taking sides and kind of that general thing of like, I don't even know where I land, but I care. And you know, it's funny because it's not funny actually, but what I was wondering when all this was going down with Sophia, like when she was silent and people were just coming at her, I wondered, is she going to come back? Or did this kind of scare her from the experience of podcasting or being in the limelight in general, because she really saw firsthand how quickly people switch up. You know what I mean?

They were diehard fans of the show. And then all of a sudden this happens. And so quickly they are diehard Alex stands and hating her. And like, to me, you know, I was just terrified for her mental health, like whether or not I think she, what she did was right business wise, like, that's a terrifying spot to be in. And so I didn't know if she if that was going to scare her off from even coming back. And like, I don't know if you felt this way. But in her episode, I think you could

tell in her voice, she's not 100% comfortable with that hate, understandably. So who would be but like, I think she's still taking time to get used to it oh totally i mean what she went through and i can only imagine i had no conversations with her but like someone who's been on reality tv and and have an audience almost trained to pick sides and then whatever and if you're on the opposing side like people will come after you and it's hard. Well, yeah. I mean, there's so much there. And like the first thing that I want to say, because I think it's important, is like the

reason that these attacks, I would imagine, felt so much more personal was because this is not somebody that's like casually talking about, you know, some fluffy subject for 30 minutes. She is telling the innermost details about her sex life. She is telling the audience literally the most vulnerable, vulgar details about what goes on when she is having intercourse. So then for those same people who now really got to pull back the curtain on her and got in so deep to turn on her, I think was scary. Like whether or not you agree, you know what I mean? I'm not, I didn't really take a side. And then just the other thing that I want to say, because I want

to talk a little bit more about her, this most recent episode and kind of just like the strategy behind it. But I think this is an important general note of like, I talk about this with my therapist a lot. We as humans are not built to withstand that type of attack. Like, yes, we can handle it. Most people, not everyone, of course, but if you, if you are, you know, mental health is in a good place and you have people that you can talk to, it's, you may be okay. However, we're not meant to withstand that. We as human being, the number one thing we want to feel is safe. We want to feel safe and we want to feel comfortable. So when your safety is ripped from you, one, that's really scary. And second of all,

the biggest misconception that I really have learned to understand with like, and again, not me, because I'm not famous, I try everything to not be, but like just with generally getting criticism or getting trolls, I think people always say, toughen up, whatever, fuck the haters, don't focus. And that's the goal. People are striving for that. That's not true. Because the same part of you that gets offended by hurtful things is the same part of you that has that capacity to love. Like your empathy comes from the same place that your sensitivity comes from. So the goal isn't to become this hardened person that isn't affected by people's words. It's to understand like, okay, that was hurtful.

However, it doesn't define me. But I just think that the way that, I don't know, the way that consumers have viewed strength is completely flawed. Strength is not not caring. Strength is like being able to, I think, understand that it doesn't, it isn't a reflection of you, but it's still hurtful, you know? I totally agree. I also just want to point out, I really love how you had a very thoughtful and inspirational monologue all while recapping Call Her Daddy. The irony there I think is quite poetic. But I totally agree. I think that's the human side of all this drama. But getting into what you said about like this new episode with Sophia. So she has,

so her second episode, she was like, oh, I want to have this milf hunter guy on which all like what a great move strategically because everyone was to be like, I don't care. I don't care if I hate Sophia. I'm going to listen. Right. That's the beauty of like you just want people to care. And it was a perfect cast because everyone was going to care. Right. And so then it was like, what are they going to care right and so then it was like what are they going to talk about and people had very

like three specific reactions about the potential of him being on there is that correct yeah i mean it would i think it was a little bit confusing because in her previous episode she said i will never mention alex or barstool again so then when she brings milk hunter who we know had a huge falling out with barstool and alex everybody's expecting, is this going to be a huge attack, which is going to be incredibly hypocritical to what she said? Are they going to completely steer away from it? Is he going to be the co-host? There was a lot of kind of, I think, curiosity. And then when he comes on, really, for the most part, it wasn't about that. They gave us, what, maybe a minute or two? And really, for the most part, it wasn't about that.

They gave us, what, maybe a minute or two? Yeah. No. I mean, it was a very specific. With listening to the episode, it seemed like it was smart. You know, I've done stuff like that. I'm going to have this person on because I know it's going to create a buzz. But we're going to talk about something.

Maybe they're not what they're expecting. But I'm going to get them in and hope that what we talk about is great. It's captivating, not what they expected, but it brings them in. And then we get them to stay by talking what we want to talk about. And that's clearly what they had planned, trying to stick to their word about not bashing Alex and Barstool anymore, and then just getting into what it seems like both of them plan on talking about in future episodes. I guess my biggest question, having heard this whole drama and the questions I had about the Call Her Daddy show in general is, again, having this idea that what it really is, is a reality TV show and podcast format. And my audience can relate because I always get asked that question, is the picture real? How much is real? Is it staged? Is it scripted? Blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah. And I guess I have those same questions about the Call Her Daddy podcast now more than ever after listening to Sophia's first episode, which she said things like scripts and Alex had scripts and that's fine. I don't care if she does, but it's like, and that's what people wondered because as you told me, Emma, these were episodes where these women would talk about like, well, if you cheat on your boyfriend and you get an STD, they had what, let's be honest, a very not great way of trying to get away with it. Which was basically trick your boyfriend into like a threesome and then give him this STD that you got and then blame it on the girl that you invited into the bedroom. Like that's kind of a fucked up thing. Not even kind of.

It's totally fucked up. Like I don't think we're going to be like upsetting any Call Her Daddy fans. But there is shock value there. And my question is, is that real? Or did they just come up with this crazy ass story and pretend that they did this? Right? Adding to this kind of craziness that is their life. And Sophia suggested that some of it was scripted. And Sophia, like, it seems like Sophia's goal of her new show is to, you

know what? I used to do this, but now I want to focus on women empowerment. I want to like, use this platform to try to better myself and better my audience, which, hey, I think is great. But she kind of stopped short of fully embracing that because, well, I get that she doesn't want to talk shit anymore. I would like if it's true, if what she said wasn't totally authentic in the past, without talking shit about Barstool or Alex, I would love to hear Sophia say, you know what? Some of this shit I said wasn't true. In fact, it was kind of fucked up. Don't fucking do this, my young audience, my impressionable 18, 19, and 20-year-old

listeners. That's fucked up. In fact, it might be even illegal. It's fucking terrible. And someone who wants to own up to shit that I did, don't fucking do that. And she hasn't done that. And I thought that would have been really interesting for her to say. But I don't fucking do that and she hasn't done that and i thought that would have been really interesting for her to say but right i don't know yeah no no no all really really interesting points and to your first one about what like the curiosity of whether it was scripted or not you know that's something that early on in the days before any of the drama happened everybody asked this because it was so shocking you didn't know and they never like they said like they said, this is really what happens. And I think that that's true. I think probably what happened was a lot of this stuff did take place, but then it was amplified. Like, how do we make

this sound funnier? How do we make it sound even crazier? You know what I mean? Like, I think that's kind of where the scripted element came in. I don't think they took it out from thin air. Um, but I think they understood that the toxicity was working. Like they were open about saying that those aren't my words, you know, toxic advice that was shocking and was, and was, you know, comical. I think people liked. But I think what happened with Sophia, honestly, is like, she came out so firm in her first episode saying, when you say these words, I will never utter Alex or Barstool's names again, ever. When you say that statement, you can't really go back on it. So while I respect the move, because I definitely think that that's like the respectful thing to do. I think if I'm

talking from like an audience engagement perspective, maybe if she said that the third time, and maybe the second episode with Milt Hunter said a little bit more of how she actually felt, maybe people would have been more interested in that i don't know like i'm just hypothesizing here i don't know either but well couldn't she have done it with just saying what she did hey listen and like i've said this in the past clearly referencing what she said in that show without uttering the name of the even even the show you know what i'm saying like i've said this story before if you've maybe heard it this is me and people will know it's come from came from that but i think that would have been powerful because also it would have been a very clever way of kind of without

naming names and talking about it directly suggesting that in more further detail of i don't really stand by that and you know and again for those of the people because like let's be honest call her daddy is a very successful it has a huge audience and if sophia captures just a fraction of it that's just a win for her right for all the people who maybe have been fatigued by like in she made a joke about like how many different ways can you learn how to suck dick right like you know after a while it's like okay i get it like you know um and so that would have been really interesting for her like own up to it if it is true i don't know if it's not i still i'm still don't know i still don't have the answer right

say what you want but like i'm fascinated to see what's next for for both these women only like what do they do with this how do they decide like the the the guy who's strategic in me like wants to see what choices they make and how it plays out like they had these characters like milf hunter on call her daddy that's what worked for them it was the fact that he was milf hunter he wasn't kevin he wore a mask right and he played this role and that that was a thing will alex bring in and introduce new characters into her world or will she be able to transition away from it i don't know these are all questions like as a like an outsider i want answered and i'm not ashamed to admit it no and neither am i i literally i said if, you know, I don't care if it seems superficial or

unintelligent, sometimes you just need an escape. And this has definitely served as an escape. And I agree with you. I genuinely want them both to succeed. And like, I'm just curious, both from a business perspective, a podcast perspective, and I'm invested a little bit in their friendship, just because I think maybe as a woman of a fellow age, who's never gone through something like that with a friend, I'm a little bit interested. But yeah, I have a million questions that I'm sure a lot of people listening do too. So like, if you're one of those people, don't shame yourself for caring because sometimes we're in a fucked up world right now. Sometimes you just need a little bit of an escape and a little bit of something that's going to take your focus away. And I think that that's

okay. Yeah, totally. And that's, it's been my, and that's what's so weird for me is like, I'll admit, like I don't listen to every call her daddy episode. I've only listened to a handful per the request of Emma to like make sure we're like know what we're talking about. But the, the like the after show of it all is something that I've been very invested in and I guess props to them both for creating this world, but it's definitely been my mental escape. Via the use of voice notes, which just to sum this episode up, Em and I both highly recommend

that you utilize it in your relationships. If you have a current relationship, a friendship, a dating situation, find the beauty of the voice note and how it changes the way you communicate. And quite frankly, like as you mentioned earlier, takes away a lot of anxiety of communication. Like it gives you time to really think about it and then make sure that what you're trying to say is actually heard. that what you're trying to say is actually heard.

Exactly. Beautifully said. Well, Emma, let people know where they can find you or Common Spy Celebs. Very funny. I highly recommend. They have a Common Spy Bachelor account, which is also pretty funny, which I think is hysterical because often Emma will reach out to me like, is this relevant?

Should I post this? I'm not entirely sure. I'm like, yeah, you're good. Yeah. I actually, this is actually a good place to say it. We're actually looking for a temporary position for someone to run the

comments by bachelor account. So, Oh, well, this is the place to promote that. Yeah. So you can email bachelor at comments by celebs.com. I jokingly said it on Caitlin Bristow's podcast and we got a lot of

interest. So now we're actually seriously considering it. But yeah, so our main account is comments by celebs. It's exactly what it sounds like. We just post the funniest, best, most interesting or relevant celebrity comments. We have comments by Bravo, comments by athletes, et cetera. We started a new account with Overheard LA called Overheard Celebs, where we basically post very, I don't know, lighthearted interactions that people have had with celebrities.

Do you out the celebrities? Yeah, it's not because nothing, it's like our slogan is an anti-gossip journal. So nothing is bad. You know what I mean? It's all just like funny exchanges. And then, yeah, we have our podcast. It's three times a week. Mondays, we do a full pop culture breakdown.

Whether you know everything, you know nothing, we kind of inform you, then discuss discuss we do a bravo show isabel and i once a week all things bravo and then julie and i do a kardashian recap on thursday nights it drops right after keeping up airs we recap scene by scene if you are somebody that cares about the kardashians i'm telling you you will want to listen to this podcast we analyze those inner dynamics what are you going to do because then they announce like they're done what's next after the kardashians i mean i'm assuming they'll still be relevant and i guess will you break down their lives outside of the tv show yes because we do that on the main podcast but on the bonus show um when they were in hiatus we went back to season one so we have 16 other seasons to recap scene by scene after this one ends. Well, God bless the work that Kardashians put in so you could podcast for it.

Well, Emma, thanks so much for coming in. I just want to say I value your friendship that we have. And it's been good for my mental health. And I hope for the people listening, you can find unique friendships that have nothing to do with your romantic lives or your friendships that are maybe just an escape from your everyday world. And I think it can be really good for you and your mental health as well, especially if you use voice notes. Totally agree. And I value yours as well. And thank you for having me. All right.

Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in your questions at asknick at castme.com, cast with a K. Don't forget to vote. This is the last week of voting for People's Choice Awards. We probably won't win,

but I really want to. But we might. Be be optimistic you never know it's all on you people listening that's all i gotta say i won't that's fine uh until next time thanks for listening we will see you on monday