The Viall Files - E208 The Bachelorette Recap With Raven Gates

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

For this recap of The Bachelorette we are joined by one of Bachelor Nations favorite contestants Raven Gates. Nick and Raven break down the Bennett and Noah drama while comparing it to the emotional intelligence conversation on NIck’s season between Taylor and Corrine, they get analytical about home towns and lie detectors and most importantly they discuss why they think Jojo did not say there was a final rose on the table. Its an episode filled with healthy debates and theories you don’t want to miss.  “She can not let people know there is only one rose on the table.” Make sure to check out Ravens new clothing line at www.shopgreysuede.com and she is giving our listeners 30% off the entire month with code NICK.  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rum Haven: http://www.discover.rumhaven.com for the latest tips, recipes, and giveaways. Thereagun: http://www.theragun.com/viall to Try for 30 days.  Shipstation: http://www.shipstation.com use code VIALL to try it FREE for 60 days.  Dipsea: http://www.dipseastories.com/VIALL for a 30 day FREE trial.  Usual Wines: http://usualwines.com use code VIALL for $8 off your first order and get your first glass is on us.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @ravennicolegates See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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all their recipes. That's right. Go to their website. Get some recipes. Be a hero for all the people in your life. Sip into paradise and visit discover.rumhaven.com for the latest giveaways, recipes, and seasonal tips. what is going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files bachelor recap bachelor recap edition i am your host nick joined by my producer chrissy joined virtually in the blistering warm weather of montana it is warm today is it 22 degrees it's gonna be

50 degrees today no for reals all right congrats. It's so exciting. I walked to get coffee this morning. It's amazing. Is it pool day? Huh? Pool day? Yeah. Pool day. I mean... Maybe a little jump in the river.

For someone who grew up in Wisconsin, when you had 50 degrees in December, that was like shorts in tank top day. I know. But my coffee speaks to me today. I walked to get coffee and it says, bad decisions make good stories on it. I was like, oh, these people get me.

I liked it. There you go. We are also joined, and you can hear her slightly giggling in the background. One Raven Gates joins us. I can't even talk to help us break down this episode of The Bachelorette. Raven, how are you doing? Good. I'm so excited. I have not told you this, but Tayshia is Adam's girl crush. She has

been since she was on Colton season. So every time we watch The Bachelor, I'm like, maybe I should just go to the other room and let you have your date night with Taysha, you know? Really? So I, I swear. This is like Taysha was post you and Adam. So this is not like before I met you, babe, I had a crush on this person. No, this was like you two were in a relationship. And apparently you guys have the maturity in this relationship for Adam to be like, Hey, can I get a hall pass? No hall passes here. No hall passes.

No, but like when he, she was on Colton season, he was just like, she's like so beautiful. She's so sweet. Like he had a girl crush on her, which was fun.

And then we got to go to, um, I met Tayshia. We both met Tayshia at Paradise when Chris and Crystal got married. So we introduced ourselves and I just said, Tayshia, um, Adam's obsessed with you. Would you please go say hello to him? So she was so sweet and she's like oh my god yeah so i'm super excited to break down this episode um i think she is stunningly beautiful and her season's pretty good i mean i'm enjoying it so yeah it's been it's been good so far does question on your and adam's relationship based off this information you provided do you have more or less confidence or is it not impacted by

the fact that you went on national television on this on my season and said how you you know beat up the girl who she done so it's just kind of like hey you just kind of already put it out there so it's fine he has a crush but just so you know what i'm capable of doing. I can take her down. Yeah. Yeah. When we first got together, I guess like his family was watching my past seasons. Obviously you would. And they were very concerned that I was like some violent, like woman. And I was like,

no, there was so much more to that story. Yeah. Only if you need to be. Don't give me a reason. Don't give me a reason. I mean, it's not who I am, but it's who I to be. So much more to that story. Yeah, only if you need to be. Don't give me a reason. Don't give me a reason. I mean, it's not who I am, but it's who I can be. Exactly.

Yeah. Well, we are glad that you are doing this with us. This is the second time that Raven and I have podcasted together. The first time was on my Patreon, NickVTalksTrashTV, where we break down our time together on my season of The Bachelor and the relationships. So if you haven't checked that out, make sure to do that. It's a ton of fun. Not only Raven, but Rachel, Corinne, Vanessa,

Jan, Savion from Paradise, the whole gang. Also, Raven has, as some of you may or may not know, a wonderful clothing line, right? You have a clothing store. Yes. It's a boutique. It's called Shop Grace Wade. So on Instagram, it's Shop Grace Wade or www.shopgracewade. And so if you're Christmas shopping, you can go on there and I made a code for all of your listeners just use the code nick and i see 30 off 30 off go support your local business in a time of covid support raven gates she has a a wedding she's got to pay for and uh if it ever happens at this point i'm just ready to elope this is getting out of hand I I think eloping

is such a great idea when it comes to weddings everyone tells me that so we'll see I mean the wedding industry would disagree with you but I would take that money something sexy about it yeah it's like I kind of wanted Adam to like run off and get married and like not tell anybody and then have a wedding and be like, oh, yeah, we've been married. But he was like, no. There's something affordable about it. That's what I thought.

Yeah, exactly. Well, go check out Raven's line, Code Nick, 30% off. Go support some of your local businesses. Check out the Patreon. And make sure to tune in tomorrow for a great episode if you were ever an entourage fan entourage on hbo which i was or maybe your boyfriend was a fan it's the bring your boyfriend to bring your boyfriend to listen to yeah doug ellen the creator of entourage and the amazing kevin dillon who plays johnny drama on entourage join us to talk about uh their

experience on the show how it relates to their personal life. It's just a fun conversation, a little guy talk. Make sure to tune in to that. And other than that, Justin Long joins us next Monday for, it's a big Justin Long week next week. We have Justin Long

helps us do an Ask Nick episode. He's fantastic on it. Gives great relationship advice. He was very earnest about it. Took it very seriously. It was a ton of fun. And him and his brother are scheduled to help us break down next week's episode of The Bachelorette. So that should be...

Justin Long all week long. Justin Long all week long. Other than that, thanks for listening. And when we return, Raven Gates breaks down the Bachelorette. The holidays are here. You know it. I know it.

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so i always get clued in yes so he's like tanner yeah pretty yeah like between jade and tanner it's tanner's the one who watches like jade's like i guess like yes interesting exactly do we want to have adam join us no he would that would be a great episode maybe i'll have adam i'll have adam come back and do it on his own the episode opens up, we had a cliffhanger last week. We have this confrontation between Bennett and Noah and Tasha's asking, you know, what's in the box.

And we open things up. I have a lot to say that I, you know, I was very defensive of Noah last week. I think he's a very manufactured villain. If you even want to call him a villain. But what are your thoughts, Raven before i elaborate very very uh our season kind of vibes with the emotional intelligence conversation yeah definitely um i have a few thoughts noah okay noah and bennett both me, have the same issue.

They both seem a little condescending, and they're both proving it to me. So I can see both sides of this scenario. And just like you think that Noah is kind of a manufactured villain, I kind of think the same way with Bennett. And I think he knows he's different. He knows he's weird. He says that we get that. And I think the storyline perfectly meshes into what he knows people perceive him as. So he's just diving into that. So he is talking weird. He is being weird. He knows he's going to be shown weird he knows he doesn't fit in so i think he's really a manufactured villain as well really so i i've been saying

the past couple episodes in these recaps that i first i was a big bennett fan then not so much recently and so maybe i'm missing something but like when did bennett point out that he knows he's weird and different because my whole premise has been like i like bennett if bennett is self-aware enough to know that he's kind of a dork right well we're not always self-aware of everything about us right we we're not always self-aware, but he did say in this episode, like, I know I speak different. I know I'm different from everyone here. I know. And so I think maybe we're all just a little unaware about ourselves just a little bit, but you know, the core person you are, and he knows those core things about himself.

I mean, yeah, I don't know if you're giving them the benefit of the doubt i kind of took that as like when i watched bennett talk it was like for me it was the classic case of i'm sorry i made you feel this way not i'm sorry right or yes when he said i know i'm different to me and this and who knows like i don't i i'm not inside bennett's head different to me in this. And who knows? Like I don't, I I'm not inside Bennett's head, but to me it sounded like, I know I'm better. That's what it sounded like to me. I know I talk different because everyone else is stupid. It didn't sound like I'm a door. People don't get me. I have insecurities. You know, I didn't hear any of that from, from Bennett. So to me, no, I agree with that. And the whole box, the present itself was condescending.

So anything that he was trying to prove where he was not condescending, the box was there. The present was there and it was a very condescending box. Yeah. It reminded me so much of obviously the Taylor and Corrine fight from, from our season right do you think bennett parallels taylor in that situation 100 yes bennett's taylor corinne is noah if we're oversimplifying the comparison right like okay we're i'm not i don't know noah at all and and

but i i you know i heard all those conversations as the bachelor and i remember uh thinking i was very much teen like in that it was a classic case i think bennett's doing the same thing taylor's clearly smart right taylor also taylor is clearly smart at the time she wouldn't shut up about going to john hop. Right. And then she, she may have been smart, but she, I felt like she, she thought she was smarter than she actually was. And I thought she saw herself as more self-aware than she actually was. Right. And, and she took that confidence in herself, which is great that she had, and then used it to kind of shame and condescend Corinne. And I remember thinking,

you know, listening to Taylor talk to me about Corinne. And it was just like, you know what, Taylor, in my head, I actually said this to Taylor and never got aired, but it was just like, hey, listen, you know, I understand you guys don't have differences. But what I see in Corinne is someone who, while not perfect and has her flaws, she's self-aware enough that she doesn't take herself seriously. You know, that wasn't necessarily shown in its truest self on the show. But like, you know, Corinne is Corinne and she knows that. She knows she's goofy and she has no problem. You know, Corinne's biggest strength was like not pretending to be someone that she wasn't.

Not, you know, she was okay with pointing out flaws of herself that's not something i saw a lot with taylor at the time and i just remember being like if anyone's not self-aware between the two of you i was i thought corinne was more self-aware yeah i could see that i could see that um do you think bennett is um like like Taylor in the way where – I felt like Taylor felt personally attacked by Corrine in this situation after like Bennett is just kind of trying to defend Tayshia's honor. So do you feel that has any play? I don't think Taylor – I don't, you are, and maybe rightfully so,

you are definitely giving more Bennett, more of the benefit of the doubt. Like, cause to me, I, I look at Bennett and I see someone who, you know, thinks he's right. And it's like when, when the whole time when like you know here taisha handed herself very well with with regards to to bennett right i actually didn't love how she handled the noah thing but with with with bennett the only thing i would have loved taisha to say is because she she explained herself so well about the situation but then you know Bennett gave the I'm sorry you feel this way and to Tayshia's point it was just like hey when when was the last time I asked any of you

for your like necessarily opinions on who you think I should marry you know because she's like hey I don't need you to do this she she nailed that and then Bennett was like well I just can't believe that you would date someone like that. You know, and like Tayshia, I wish you were like, well, I didn't ask your opinion, you know, kind of thing. Like Bennett's justification for speaking up is still the condescension. And Tayshia, where he was like, hey, well, I would never do that. I just never thought you would do something like that.

Well, it's like, you're such a dick. You know, like it's such a condescending, passive aggressive, borderline gaslighting kind of approach to, you know, defending yourself where the honest thing, the only thing that Bennett could and should have said that was self-aware or was honest to me from my point of view was, you know what, Tayshia,

especially when he comes back, you know, obviously we all know he comes back was, and he didn't even do it then, which was, listen, this is a crazy world. It brings out my insecurities. You're right. You're an intelligent, wonderful woman, very capable of thinking for herself and deciding what's right for her. And I let myself get involved with something I shouldn't have been myself.

And it doesn't matter what I think of Noah and any of the other guys. I need to focus on you. And I let myself get involved with something I shouldn't have been myself. And it doesn't matter what I think of Noah and any of the other guys. I need to focus on you. And I'm sorry. That's the only thing he should and could have said. Anything else is a justification and an excuse for what he got called out on. Yeah, I agree with you. And I'm playing devil's advocate here with Bennett. But I do think it's kind of his qualities and traits are just

easy to be painted as a villain. And I don't know if he has any malicious, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Like malicious intent. Yes. But I did agree with Noah when Noah said, I don't want, when he was talking to Tayshia, he said, I just see him being condescending to us. And if you were to end up with him, I feel he would be condescending to you. I'm like, yeah, Noah's right. Noah's right on that. He is, but I would agree. Like, it's not his place to say that to taisha either right these guys need to stop short at telling right taisha what they you know that's up to taisha right and like they all do that i guess part of the show and just to preface i mean clearly i don't think bennett's like a villain or

a bad guy he's not you know but uh they also have another thing in common that they both Bennett and Noah both are way too confident and comfortable with their position with Tayshia yes Bennett didn't think he was gonna leave Noah didn't think he was gonna leave and I so loved when Tayshia came through the room it was like Noah don't smile i love that yeah because it kind of like simmer down like you didn't win this she said quote you did not win i i get that but i i was blown away and i had to go back and rewind rewind it because i couldn't believe she said this which she was like i don't think you're ready to get married at the end of this. Not like she didn't say,

I'm not sure if you're not ready. She was like, I don't think you're gonna be ready. Oh, fair enough. I mean, granted, I think it's a bit presumptuous to, to be able,

I don't think any lead or anyone in that environment with the limited time that we have can make a judgment on someone, whether they're capable. Now he might not be ready for taisha that's taisha has the right to say that i didn't love that she that's i don't think that's fair to noah she didn't necessarily reference his age ben higgins was 25 years old when he was on caitlin season yeah you know what i'm saying he was the most ready bachelor i think no offense But I feel like Ben was like the most ready bachelor, you know? Offense taken. But, you know, age can vary.

It's just, to me, the silliness of Noah's immaturity. We know nothing about Noah that much. We do know, again, I want to point out that he is a traveling nurse who's been on the front lines of fighting COVID. Yeah. want to point like that he is a traveling nurse who's been on the front lines of fighting covid uh that he is you know comes from a large large family and that matures you faster than in in other situations so like if anybody would know that that would be you yeah so we don't know like we don't know whether he is or isn't and as riley pointed out like i thought it was fascinating when riley pointed out that they they were spending their one week anniversary. Like they don't often do that, but they put a real timestamp, not like a bachelor timestamp in terms of like episodes and weeks, but like an actual like we've been talking for seven fucking days. And Riley, like no, like that's as long as Tayshia has been there.

So Tayshia has spent a week. All these relationships are seven days old. Yes. Right? So wild. I know. It's so wild. And it's crazy.

But fine. So for argument's sake, let's say Tayshia is running the money where Noah's not ready. Maybe there's things Noah has done that we didn't get to see. And that's allowed. Then why is he still there? Why didn't you send him home? Why just send him on his way? I don't understand that.

It doesn't make sense to me that Tasha said that. that it doesn't make sense to me that tasha said that and i was also thinking that you know keeping him would make sense if he was a villain in the house but he's not it seems like all the boys really like him noah so yeah so um yeah i like how they pointed out where they and i love that and they did this a couple times with with me, with Andy and Caitlin season, where again, where I always kind of felt it was more manufactured, where it was like a couple of guys being like, I think it was Brandon. Who's like, yeah, you've been kind of screwed over. He kind of says that to Noah where like,

you got yourself caught up in this thing. But Noah clearly is someone who's, he doesn't back down from confrontation and he is a talker and just by definition as you know like he is annoying some of the other guys just by and it's not even his fault that he's cannibalizing their time I mean for all the people listening for all the guys on this season who might be listening for future contestants no one has ever been sent home because someone else stole your time it's yeah that's never happened no one steals your time the lead just doesn't want to talk to you oh is that what it is nick yeah is that what it is well and for someone who

got tons of time yes i mean like no you know what I'm saying? No one steals your time. If I wanted, yeah, they care about relationships. And if you're not getting time, it's because the lead isn't as interested as they, he or she in talking to other people. He got a rose at the rose ceremony. Why didn't she go ahead and just give him the rose? I mean, she had to know in that moment she was going to keep him. Or she would have just let him go. Yeah. The holiday seasons can bring feelings of stress, anxiety, and even loneliness. We all just want to be touched during the holiday season.

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because it almost, it's like, what's, I don't, I'm just, where do you go from here if that's how you feel? Well, it gives, to play on her side, it gives him the knowledge to change her perception of him. So if she can just go straight to him and say, this is my issue with you. Apparently this is her biggest and only issue with him because she didn't really even talk about the issue with Bennett as much as she was concerned about him not being ready for marriage. So this is his opportunity to do something about it, to prove her wrong. So I hope he does.

I agree with you there. that's where where i was disappointed in noah is like she just told you she doesn't think you're ready for marriage yeah and and you're you didn't you weren't bothered by that enough to address it and i think exactly it's a big strike for noah it was like it kind of proves, proves Tisha's point. Yes. It was a missed opportunity for Noah, for him to say, I mean, if anyone said something about you, especially someone you care about and you're like in this competition to win their heart and they think this bad thing about you, the first thing you're going to say is like, that's not true. And I'm going to show you it's not true. And this is where I'm at. This is where my heart's at. And this is where I want my life to be at. And I'm going to show you that he would

have gotten, I bet he would have gotten the rose then had he had that conversation with her. Yes. If Noah would have been like, he comes back, right? He, Taysha sends Ben at home. He comes back. He's not smiling, which, you know, he shouldn't have done and he's like hey Tisha um can I talk to you uh I know like it really like I've been sitting here for the past however long thinking about what you just said to me and Bennett and you just said that you don't think I'm ready for marriage and well first off I personally disagree with you that being said I'd love to hear directly why you think that. And it feels unfair to me. And while I don't agree with you, if that is how you feel, I guess maybe I should go.

I would love to show you otherwise. And I would love for you to give me feedback and why you think that. And I'd love an opportunity to change your mind. But I don't think I can't take myself seriously and stay here if that is in fact how you feel about me and yeah you're right if he would have said that that would have been major changer yeah totally totally totally agree um so noah is put on probation he's you know given uh basically a what what what do we like an extension i guess if you will a rose and then do we go straight to the rose ceremony of that or is it yeah it's straight

to rose ceremony straight to the rose ceremony um pretty you know ed finally goes home you know ed we appreciate the entertainment you gave us. I was hard on Ed. You're going to miss him, Nick. I am going to miss Ed. Pour one out for him. I'm going to miss Ed. Damar and Spencer go home. I got to say, Spencer, maybe in the history of The Bachelorette, is the biggest first impression Rose disappointment of all time.

Yeah. Which I'm sure he's a... He got to Rose and like he never spoke ever again we never saw him and when have we ever seen that that's really weird you know what i'm saying like everyone's just like he came in he was so great and and by great i just mean like you know like no unafraid of the group clearly had a connection with taisha she gave him the first impression rose. That's a big deal, especially in bachelorette world. Right.

Wait, you know what that, sorry to cut you off, but it reminds me of when on Becca season, when she had a one-on-one with the, I think he was the other Garrett and then he just left the show and we're like, uh,

okay. Well, that was strange a little little different he got kicked off and yes since passed away yeah but we didn't know that till much later so it makes you think like what happened why did he why did he leave well he was just boring i think he just i i think yeah i mean because it's the thing if you want to compare it to that there wasn't this it wasn't abrupt in a sense of it was a slow burn he's been on three or four episodes

it was almost as if did he get kicked off because we haven't seen him and then like once an episode he would like pop it and you know kind of narrate a situation but never really get involved and I am I would be curious i'd love to find out from taisha like what did you see in him the night one and then what did

you stop seeing him going forward because clearly right there's an excitement there right if the first impression rose matters right because yes especially for the women if you look back on the history of the bachelorettes i mean the women pick win usually pick the winner yeah pick the winner i mean the last time that like you know and andy gave me the first impression i was her top two uh it was her and then so it's like it's it's someone that you really you know have an interest in like with andy i think if she was going to pick her favorite from night one she would have given it to josh but like she decided to give it to me because maybe it was like i'm gonna pick my second favorite or pick someone else who surprised me or

whatever but someone really who and yeah he just really it's it's shocking when you think about the history just how much uh that you would think something had to change. Like he said or did something weird. Something happened. Something happened. Even on the group dates, he was just like in the background. Like the only group date that he had like any kind of like camera time or it wasn't just like a two-second thing with her was like that one

where he got like elbowed in the pool. here's the thing if that was it if you're someone who's not very chatty on that show and the lead is just you know i don't see it not for me yeah you'll go home quick right yeah but if the lead likes you you can be quiet you know you can be in the shadows you can play behind the scenes many of winners and top three people have won that way because it's just like well you have the benefit of the lead being into you and so you're going to get your one-on-one and then you'll get an opportunity to just like have the time and you don't need to speak up in drama you don't need to insert yourself it's the people where the leads really just not into them like for example i mean i'm just going to go out on a limb and say that i mean i i think you know i know taisha and we were led to believe that she's questioning her choice of sending bennett

home but like i don't see it i could be wrong i don't see it i don't think there was ever a shot that bennett was going to end up with taisha and no i don I don't either. And Bennett is outspoken and interesting and good TV, and that's why Bennett is sticking around. But if the lead likes you, then you can be quiet as fuck and you can go top four. So to your point, I agree with you, Raven. It makes you wonder, is there a conversation we didn't see where like spencer just got weird or said something off-putting i don't know but it

was it's shocking that he got the first impression rose and then just we literally he wasn't a villain he wasn't anything he was just there not there yeah that is an unsolved mystery that give when you get the opportunity to talk to note that because we need to know we we need like you didn't even see him have like one-on-one time with her like they usually show everybody talking to her like on their like their cocktail party group date stuff nothing like he was nowhere he just disappeared weird weird so weird yeah i don't know it's um it was shocking i was uh i i do want to know if if chris harrison said jojo can take my spot but what she can't do is come out my patented uh gentlemen this is the final rose yeah there was no final rose notification no i wrote that

down i was like shocked i thought that too i thought the same thing i was like is this the final rose or or what i was so confused and i and did jojo screw it up did she like come out there and totally whiff it and they just edited it out i don't know but was that might have been the first time in the show's history during a rose ceremony there was a single rose and we weren't made aware that it was the last rose and i was like are there still more roses two and two together ourselves you're totally right i thought the same thing thing. It's a Chris Harrison slogan and, and she can do everything but that, you know?

Yeah. He's like, no, I'm fine. I, Jojo can take over, but she can not do, not let people know that there's only one rose on the table.

I think you're right. I, I was confused. Um, all of a sudden we're like. I was confused. All of a sudden, we're like talking about hometowns. I know. Like this is the show. Like the show, Zach's kind of like, hey, oh, my God, can she meet my parents? You know, we see this every season, but we're just kind of prepared for it because we've watched the season.

We know that hometowns is around the corner. We don't know what the fuck's going on this season. Rale like hey i've only known you for seven days and all of a sudden like by the way hometowns is on the line there's only seven people left and so we have a little like itm from zach letting america know this is where we are on our journey of love which i i feel for tasha in that sense that like she's had no fucking time to really get to know these guys i mean this is it's seven days eight days maybe now seven days now granted it's more it's seven more impactful days they're not traveling they're not taking days off you know it's bam bam bam bam bam every day but you, I thought since it was such a short Tom crunch,

I thought this season would be more set up like a paradise situation where she would be with them 24 seven, because that, that's where you get the most of your time out of these guys. But it didn't, I mean, I'm shocked. And then, like you said, for them to give us a timeline with the whole one week anniversary and there's seven men left good luck tasha i don't know how she's doing it it really put things in perspective and i uh i feel for because like every every lead feels a pressure to make it work every i i truly believe that every lead is there for the right

reasons in the sense that like they all wanted to make it work they all want to find love you know it's not you know they may have other goals as being given this opportunity but i i think there's a real sincerity on the leads and i and i feel for tasha yeah uh having such limited time. Ben finally gets his one-on-one. We've been waiting for this one-on-one. We now know why Ben has been had to wait for so long, because he obviously has more to his past. He was very honest last week about struggling with eating disorders, and then we get a bigger conversation about obviously his

suicide attempts, which, again, props to Ben and Zach. You know, in these situations, obviously, I know we, we make, you know, the sad story has almost become like a rite of passage, we kind of snark about it. And we don't have to, know in a sense like yeah um i'm sure ben was encouraged to tell his truth but like lots of times people don't share everything you know about that um so you know props to to ben to having that honest conversation and and we've talked about suicide on the show and bringing an awareness to it you You know, again, here we see a guy, Ben, great looking guy, seems really nice, just looks like he has things going for him just on outward appearances alone. And to hear his struggle with, I think, was very brave of him. And I hope that, you know, I think awareness when it comes to suicide is always a positive, positive thing.

So I agree. And I cried watching this. I'm not a crier. Well, I have turned into a sap, but I cried watching him tell his story and just the way he spoke about how his sister really helped him through all of that. And it just, it was great for the viewers who are going through similar things or families of viewers going through similar things. It just takes one person to be there for someone going through such horrible mental distress to change the trajectory of their life. So I thought that was really, I mean, just really sweet, really opening up and showing us his struggles can help so many people. So especially during this time where suicide rates are up. And all the things people are battling with, especially during the

holidays, it tends suicide rates tend to go up during the holidays. So it was great for people that are going through it, what Ben went through, but it's also really great for other people to see, hey, just reach out because it takes one person like his sister to get someone through something so horrible, you know? Yeah, I totally agree. I don't know what it is, but it's certainly something. It's interesting that it seems clear that Tayshia's strongest connections that we're seeing now are between Zach and Ben. And they're two guys.

How old is Ben? I know Zach's older. Didn't he say he was 26 when he got hurt? I don't think he's that young. Ben's 29. Okay. So he's not as old as Zach, but he's 29, right? But yeah, so her two strong,

are guys who have dealt with some serious things. You know, it's interesting, you know, Tayshia, we talked about the seven days. She's got such limited time. And I think it's great that she, I mean, to me, they seem to be the most grounded and self-aware of the men at the same time if you're tasha it's gonna bring up some real questions i mean it's fair for tasha to be like i'm so glad you've addressed this i'm so glad but like where

are you on this path it's a constant you know i'm assuming um you know i've had family members deal with it and it's it's a constant you know struggle like a check-in you know you know, I've had family members deal with it. And it's a constant, you know, struggle, like a check in, you know, we all deal with mental dealing with our mental health is an ongoing thing. It's like exercising. Like once we stop focusing on it, we can let ourselves go and it can get us into a bad place. Right. And kudos to Ben for saying he just dove straight into therapy and dove straight in onto

his issues and trying to find help i thought that was really commendable of him but yeah you're totally right this is this is something that he is bringing into the relationship that taisha needs to be aware of and also check in with him if they were to end up together, you know? Totally. And it's something like, I don't care if it's nine weeks or 12 weeks or a week or two weeks or how much time Tayshia is going to have or any lead. Like, you know, people always ask when like you get engaged on The Bachelor, you know, and in your case, Raven, like as a runner up, you certainly, whether you thought I was, you know, in your case raven like as a runner-up you certainly whether you thought i was you know maybe you're probably going to pick vanessa or not but like if you go that far you

start thinking about right like could i do this yeah and no matter what it's just like no matter how certain you are or you think you could like no i don't think most people i think most people are not like delusional it's a leap of faith right, right? You're just like, I do love you. I love what I know. I realized there was a lot. I don't know. I'm willing to take the leap of faith with you because of how I feel. And with Tasha,

she's being asked to take an even bigger leap of faith with less time. And then if she does end up with Zach or Ben, and I would honestly be shocked at this point if it's not one of those two, like who's going to like surpass those two guys in the last few weeks. She's asked to take a bigger leap of faith of being like, hey, thanks for your honesty.

But there's just no way for her to get all the information. She's probably, I'm assuming craving one to know without just spending time with them, you know? Right. And it just is what it is. assuming craving you want to know without just spending time with them you know right and um that's it just is what it is but it's just i i don't think i think it's a for tasha like it's uh it's a big it's a big ask for her yes i agree only saying that because you know hopefully tasha finds love hopefully she gets engaged hopefully it works out but if she doesn't if it doesn't

work out for her it's uh it's understandable why maybe she didn't have all the information she she needed up front um so yeah ben has a very powerful one on one we we've you know we just like ben obviously ben's you know rightfully so getting a very positive edit and it's it's it's truly like i i mean what i am enjoying this season is that you have two front runners and every time they get screen time uh you you always think that they're the one who has the best connection with tasha yeah right yeah and i think i think that's always makes for a compelling season um and i honestly that's how it's like at Ben's on. I'm like, Oh, she's going to pick Ben when Zach's on. I'm like,

she's going to pick Zach. Do you have a, I was about to ask you the same thing. I was like, are you team Ben or team Zach? Oh, I'm not team either. I,

you know, that is interesting because usually not only is there, usually there's an obvious top two and whether like their rivals, like Sean and I were, there's usually two distinct choices. And I don't know if there are two distinct choices here. Not yet. Other than their, yeah, not yet. Other than their age, they seem self-aware. They seem vulnerable. They seem like they have been damaged, but not broken. And I say that in a very positive way. I like people who are, we're all damaged damaged but not broken and I say that in a very positive way I like people who are we're all damaged but not broken I love the people who are able to recognize it

and say that you know and and they seem like nice guys you know so like I can't see other than like obviously they look different and their age there's not like even a personality difference that at least we're aware of and so i don't know they seem like you know if tasha's great you know um yeah yeah i i don't think i'm rooting for one more than the other um who's your final four other than those two um i think okay obviously those two i don't know about the fourth one but i think the third one will be riley just because he has such an interesting thing going on like i just feel like that's going to come out in hometowns i'll be shocked if he doesn't get a hometown because of the story he told us during this episode, but I could be totally wrong. But I mean, he's the only one that I'm sure a lot of viewers like myself are curious about the dynamic of his family.

I think Riley, it's just too late, right? I think, you know know just more behind the scenes i think it's a powerful story i i he seems like a fantastic guy i'd love i'm i'm is is interested in getting to know riley you know outside of the tv show is anyone on that show seems like a really i don't know um i find him interesting but yeah i do too i think part of the reason why we have a cliffhanger part of the reason why taisha didn't give a rose on that date was riley can tell a story now we can have enough time in between so that when she does send riley home she doesn't look like an asshole yeah i mean valid point very valid um and sometimes with hometowns you're right there's like oh this would make a good hometown and then sometimes like it's like you know what this might be too

much for hometowns it might just get too weird or too much maybe his family just has no interest we don't know that can happen those are conversations we're just like are my family's just not interested in being a part of this show. Yeah. I had conversations like that about people on the show on my season. I don't know if that happened here, but that's entirely possible. So we don't know if it is or isn't. But my guess, regardless, it's and I don't think it's I think if if Riley doesn't make it, it's less about that. And just more that I think there's just stronger neck connections

with ivan brandon ben and zach well at this point you know she has a top two there's probably not even a top third in her mind it's probably already a top two i mean there's seven left and like she she already knows who she's probably going to pick so i think that the hometowns could be a toss-up because it's not going to be based on the four she likes the most out of who's left it's going to be the top two she thinks she's going to pick and then another two that will be great family stories to share with america which it seems like i don't know. I mean, certainly Riley would be, we would all be interested in watching, like what does, like we'd get more context probably on what he said.

But Brandon, Ben, certainly, you know, his meeting, I'm sure that conversation with his sister is going to be powerful, right? Yeah. Certainly Zach had his struggles. That's going to be a, like, you know, between Ben and Zach, those's going to be a con like you know between ben and zach those are going to be two heavy hometowns because there's no way their personal struggle is not going to come out and we're going to get his family's perception of that yeah we can assume

it's going to be like a positive supporting one but maybe maybe there's a different angle right we've we we got this teaser of taisha's dad and we i kind of we all kind of thought maybe it was going to be spencer early on because you know spencer gets the first impression rose he looks like a troublemaker he looks kind of like a fuck boy right yeah and so it was just like maybe easy to think that taisha like taisha brings the fuck boy along because he's hot and and fuck boy and then taisha's dad is just like you know what i think you're dating a fuck boy and it's but spencer's gone right and maybe spencer's not a fuck boy so now now who is taisha's dad talking about and it these all seem

like stand-up guys and that was a pretty who knows maybe maybe who do you think it is if you were to guess who do you think it is assuming taisha were to guess, who do you think it is? Assuming Tayshia's dad actually said that, and sometimes super teases are very much out of context, but let's assume we can take it at face value. Zach. Me too. I think so too. I don't know if they'll have that verbatim line played into the episode,

but I think there will be some tension there with zach because i think in another teaser she was like the more i know about zach the more worried i am or something something along those lines that makes me think it's zach her dad was talking about but i don't know i mean and i i only base this off of you know between zach's heavy story and Ben's heavy story. You know, Ben's was he struggled with body complex issues, had an eating disorder, and obviously suffered from suicidal thoughts. Ben's was like, he also suggested he struggled with suicidal thoughts. But some of Ben's stories were like based off of like choices he made,

you know, you mean Zach, I'm Zach, sorry, Zach. Right. And I'm scared that he seemed to have addressed them and he's now recovering and he's,

has done things to make good on those mistakes. And I strongly believe like there's nothing that could be an amazing guy, truly amazing that who who right now is living a life uh that's so great from the things that he learned about his mistakes that being said given those choices i could see why it scares the shit out of a dad if he's just like well i have more questions about like this, your substance abuse problem. And her dad is probably like, this has not been very long to make these decisions. So, granted. It's like you don't know.

That's the thing. Like her dad could be like, it's been, you know, at that point, 15 days. I don't know what it's going to be by the time Tayshia gets to meet her dad. We don't know a lot about this guy. But what we do know is that he's struggled with this and he could maybe, maybe Tayshia's dad just doesn't trust him. But it seems like there's,

Zach would be the one where there's ammunition there for that to be said. It would seem to be out of the blue unless there's going to be more information presented that we're just not aware of. I think the lie detector test is always a perfect date in this environment. Yeah, it's so fun. It's fun for the viewers.

It's fun for everybody. What a great answer by Zach when he said, hopefully. Great. Yeah, I caught that. I caught that. Well, I also think that's probably the most honest answer you can give which is why it was it didn't register as a lie because i i was really thinking about this last night and like in lie detector test because when when andy had her

lie detector test it was still fairly late in the season it was like a week before timing wise and there were more guys and i remember that one from what i heard i wasn't there was more a lot of like and i'm sure there were a ton of questions asked that you know we just didn't see but this seemed a little bit more earnest like a little bit more like heavy because we're like right before hometowns yeah and then you're you're you're being asked questions like do you see yourself falling in love which is such a fascinating question to be asked while on a lie detector test in that environment, because we're all just kind of confused. I mean, you remember being in that environment. And at that point, you're just like, I mean, I maybe, but this is nuts. You know, you're questioning your own thoughts. You know,

you're questioning like, how much is this based off competition how much is this is real how much is this environment do i really have these i mean i like the person but like whatever and so the lie detector test i can see how it's easy to lie on those questions because you're so like you don't know yourself yeah and just given the time that they've had i mean i can't imagine if it was like the first week of us filming and i'm asking are you ready or like i don't even know what i just walked into i'm just getting used to the mock pack like am i ready to go to hometowns i guess yeah sure hopefully so great answer by him yeah hopefully he also was upset about it right because he was upset because when he had his one-on- about it right because he was upset because when

he had his one-on-one time with her he was like i didn't want to tell you in a lie detector test that i loved you and that was like his big beef yeah i don't know if it was a beef other than like zach's a good talker right and i don't say that as a criticism he took that opportunity to say it in a more romantic way it's like no i could learn so much from him if noah would just learn a few things from him and that's where like well i don't think it's fair to assume that noah's not ready for marriage that like yeah i mean zach is 12 years older than the guy right like right but the questions are different too, right? Like Noah's questions are about like faking orgasms

where like Zach's question is like talking about like real life stuff. Well, yeah, you're right. I mean, but I think, I mean, I'm assuming Raven, you mean in general, not just on the lie detector test of how he can communicate and be more self-aware. And I would agree with you.

And in fairness to Noah, like he just, you know, he is younger and be, you know, more self-aware. And I would agree with you. And in fairness to Noah, like he just, you know, he is younger and, and Zach, you know, Zach has 12 years of like doing dumb shit. I mean, I mean, to Zach's point of like, when Zach was 25, he was maybe in a dark place, you know, like Noah's already, you know, well, maybe well ahead, you know? So it's, it's not a apples to apples comparison but you're right uh chrissy like that's just kind of like where i when i say manufactured edit yeah and that like noah's not being given an opportunity to be anything other

than a scapegoat uh you know being told that he's too young for marriage and that's i feel for noah because as much as people like oh it's a tv show it's just like some bullshit he's going to deal with when he has interacts with fans or or in dating that he's been painted as someone who like for like no justifiable reason that he's somehow not ready for love. Going back a little bit, I was a little concerned when Zach said he had cheated in a past relationship. And then I know he tried to clear that up with Tayshia, but he had a long time to think about how he was going to explain that he was a cheater. And I immediately thought when he said, yeah, I cheated on my sixth grade girlfriend, I was just like, I don't think that's true. I think he cheated after that. Because if that

was the case, he would have, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that he- That's a big accusation, Raven. Let me explain. Let me explain. So when he said he had cheated, the first thing out of your mouth would be, well, I cheated, but it was in sixth grade. And then move forward. You don't say you're a cheater and then hold that for like hours. And then think about how you're going to explain that you're a cheater and then say it was a sixth grade girlfriend. I thought that was so weird. That was a red flag to me.

You know what? Very convincing argument, Raven. You're right. I think about, all right, I'm in. You're on a lie detector test. I'm there. When I was watching it last night, I was like, yeah, I literally before he said the

sixth grade girlfriend, I literally said to my friend who I was watching it with, I'm like, watch, it's going to be like his girlfriend when he was a sophomore in high school, you know, and it ended up being a sixth grade girlfriend. But you're absolutely right. If that were the case, if I'm sitting there in a lie detector test and I'm asked, did you cheat? And that pops my head. I would say, yes, I'm my sixth grade girlfriend. We made out. I would immediately provide context. Yes, especially when you know that Tayshia was cheated on in her first marriage. You would have said that. So I'm not buying it. you would have said that so i'm not buying it that very convincing argument raven you have me but so if that is true maybe maybe this comes to light maybe we find out there's something going on maybe that's what tasha's dad's referring to um i still? I still don't think so.

I think, I don't know. Yeah, that was just a little tidbit. Maybe not, but that was just a little thing where I was like, that's a little red flag to me. If I was Tayshia in this situation, this would have been a red flag. But kudos for him. If he is a true cheater or was a true cheater in his recent days what a fantastic answer he gave taisha like kudos to him for coming up with that

so you so you compliment the liar for the brilliant lie i have to give credit where credit is due so he's a liar i don't know if he's a liar. You know what's interesting? When I was watching it, I thought it was like an adult cheat. I didn't know if it was last year, right? But I was thinking this whole time being like, this guy just told you a week ago that he hit rock bottom. He told you that he ago that he hit rock bottom he told you that like he was had a substance abuse problem that like he was like rock bottom you know in terms of like his all his

choices in life seem to be not great yeah that's where i thought that i'm just thinking like listen once a cheater always a cheater you know i get asked that a lot right i mean sure i it's all listen it's a red flag what it is it's definitely something to be mindful of but like context does matter situations matters um i would feel better about someone who just like told me that their life hit rock bottom and in and part of that equation was they they were unfaithful all while having a substance abuse problem and etc etc so i was kind of watching it being like i mean i get you're upset taisha and i get that like once a cheater is always a cheater and you have a non-negotiable but like what if this is just part of the rock bottom

you know like and she says it's a non-negotiable, which I believe her. But I think she likes Zach enough that, and she knows more about his situation, that she would have been okay if he said exactly what you were saying, that I hit rock bottom and I cheated during that. I think she would have broken her non-negotiable for that

because of the context. You know she's going to give it her all. She is in it to win it. There's not going to be a part of Tayshia that's not going to try to make this work. Yeah. The only question is I wonder, and I wouldn't fault Tayshia at all,

with the limited time that we have. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Will Taysha accept an engagement? Will Taysha be like, because she's someone who does value this. I agree. And I do think appearances might matter a little bit more to Taysha than say other people where like, and I don't mean that as a negative.

I just mean like some people are just like, you know what? Fuck it and i don't mean that as a negative i just mean like some people are just like you know what fuck it i don't care like i know like i'm not gonna let myself like fine i've been engaged before and if this doesn't work out i'm still gonna take the leap of faith but i wonder if taisha and i wouldn't fault her at all who is this like i've had three fucking weeks i'm not getting engaged to any of these guys. I don't want to have another failed engagement or a marriage. Like I'm not doing that. I wouldn't fault her at all. And I wonder if that's a possibility.

Has to be right. Has to be a possibility. Yeah. So all very compelling stuff. Do we, have we left anything out? This has been a lot of fun. I think the last thing is just that we ended with like Blake who gets the

one-on-one, which really is like a setup for Blake to go home for me. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking the same thing. He gets a pocket suitcase. Good for him. He gets organized.

Every episode, we have so many cliffhangers, but always the week before hometowns, and this is kind of what this next episode is, there's always one one-on-one date that is like you're set up to think, Oh, I got a one-on-one only because you're going to get the special time of the personal breakup. And that is props to Blake for still being there because I mean,

have we haven't really seen a conversation between him and Tayshia. No. And he was so obsessed with Claire, and then he became so quickly obsessed with Tayshia. Has he been obsessed with Tayshia? Well, he says he's like, I'm so into her. I think they all think she's really beautiful. Like, you know.

Yeah. How could you not be obsessed with her? If he has had time with Tayshia, we haven't seen a lot of it. You know? Yeah. How could you not be? If he has time with Tayshia, we haven't seen a lot of it. You know what? I was thinking this about Adam on Rachel's season. He was there to the final six, and you never got to know him. And you're like, obviously, he's going home because we haven't seen him at all. Yeah. I mean, totally.

Yeah, I think Blake's definitely going to go home. The big question, you're right. I'm pretty confident about my top four, but it wouldn't shock me, and you're totally right if Riley made top four. I could totally see if it wouldn't be unbelievable't be like unbelievable that she kept riley over brandon yeah it wouldn't be or ivan it would be shocking if if ben the only thing that would be shocking is if zach and ben go home before hometowns it actually isn't ben ben already has a hometown rose uh wasn't that a hometown does yeah yeah yes but i will say this. Either Riley gets a hometown or this next episode that we'll see next week

is going to be all about Riley's story for at least half of the whole episode. He's about to get a lot of air time because we're going to, I think we're going to dive more into Riley's story. If not, he'll be at hometown. Riley story if not he'll be at hometown maybe I I think that will I think we might even get a hometown like it's hard with this season because there's so many cliffhangers and there's nothing you can do I don't even know how they're gonna do hometowns it's gonna I'm curious to see how that's going to be done too. The big question is, do we have a home? If we have a home, if like, if next week's not any hometowns,

like Ben already had a hometown Rose, right? The big question is, are there any hometowns next week? Do we have two hometowns and then cliffhanging to like the next two hometowns? Like we should have like another, yeah, we have the Rose ceremony and then it'll probably be two hometowns. Which would like they just might have to do that because listen they had two bachelorettes like it's just going to be different like for other people it's like i don't like that we just don't have a hometown

episode it just might be like the only possible way to tell the story and fit it all in that's how fast they get through blake and roast ceremony that's why i don't i think we've we're done hearing Riley's story. I think that this was his time to tell his story. You might be right. You might be right about that. I think he's told a story. They gave him his time.

And now Tasha is going to take some time to think. And then in a Rose ceremony, just not give Riley a Rose. Oh, one, one last thing before we wrap it up. I was thinking about this while watching the episode when you talk about things that Zach has been through and you talk about Ben sharing his story and then Riley also saying what happened to him.

I feel like a lot of people go on the show to run from their problems and they have no idea that when they get to the show, it is a bubble for you to basically have the biggest therapy session of your life and face your fears and face what's going on in your family life and like all the struggles. You're pushed to tell your story and you really have to face what's going on and what your true authentic story is. So I think Riley, Zach and Ben, all three, not they've been through a lot, but I think that maybe coming on the show,

they thought this will be fun. this is a new leaf for me I've been through so much I can put all my baggage behind me in reality they're opening up the closet which is a good thing for them I I felt that way on our season I've talked to many more contestants about this too in different seasons but um you go on the show and you leave being so much more open because you've shared your story and you thought you were running away from something when really you were just running to it to deal with it. And then you get the opportunity to move on.

And so I think this whole rally situation, whether he has a hometown or not, telling his story, he's free to move on from this narrative, this imposter syndrome that he thinks he has. Yeah, no, I think that's very well said. And yeah, I love that about the show. I love that when people are willing to share their story, the show generally does a good job of giving it its due course.

I always joke with people, you know, when it's not like about a personal story, but short of, you know, getting proposed to, everyone's best moment is when they get broken up with or a vulnerable moment like people when we go on the show we're afraid of that moment we're afraid of i don't want to be embarrassed i don't want to be dumped i don't want to be broken up with i don't want people to judge me i don't want taisha to find out this stuff about my past i don't want to tell her and yes you're right it's like it's a very rewarding experience that if you are lucky enough and I say

lucky enough to go on the show and say this, but if, if that does happen for you, yes, it's a very rewarding and freeing personal experience because, you know, I'm assuming when Riley goes out in public or whatever, and someone gets the pleasure of meeting him,

they're going to be like, thank you. That was so great. And people are going to admire him for it. And rightfully so. And it's such an empowerful feeling when you can share your vulnerabilities and then have people, you know,

same with Ben and Zach as well. And it's, it's nice. And we're seeing that obviously in spades this season, whether that has to do with the cast being a little bit older than usual and that must have something to do with it you're getting more life experiences you're getting more opportunity to to say that that's not to say like you were 25 when you came on the show you were one of the most mature people i thought uh in the cast of women and

that includes you know people who are older than. So it's not always specific to age. Exactly. It's life experience. And I think they, no matter what rally, whether he gets a hometown, whether he doesn't, this is going to be great for him and for him to kind of put his old name to

rest and like move forward in the future. And I like, that's what I love about the show more than anything is, is just the way it opens up people to their emotions and how they feel. Totally. Well, I think that's a great place to end it. Raven.

Thanks so much for coming on and recapping. Thank you for having me. It's been a ton of fun. Remind people where they can follow you shop and support your store. Um, you can follow me Raven Nicole Gates on Instagram. Um, go shop at my store. Use code Nick. Um, you can find the store on Instagram, uh, at shop gray suede or www.shopgraysway.com.

And the code Nick is for 30% off your purchase. So it'll last for the whole month. So if you want to get something for Christmas or the holidays, use the code. Awesome. And if you want to find out more about my season of The Bachelor with Raven, go check out the Patreon.

It's the links on my Twitter and Instagram. And yeah, ton of fun. And I can't thank you enough for doing this, Raven. Say hi to Adam for me. Tell him that I'll have to have him back probably next season for Matt James' season.

He might be even better at breaking it down than you. And you were great. Adam apparently is. He'll be good. He's a good one to break down the back threat. We'll definitely have him on. Thanks again. And as always, guys, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to tune in tomorrow for a great episode with Doug Ellen and Kevin Dillon of the show Entourage and the Victory Podcast. It is a ton of fun. You will definitely not want to miss that. Next Monday, Justin Long helps us break down our Ask Nick episodes as well as helps us recap The Bachelor with his brother, which should be a ton of fun. So make sure to check that out. And if there's nothing else, we will see you tomorrow.