The Viall Files - E211 The Bachelorette Recap With Justin Long

Episode Date: December 16, 2020

Completing his “Viathalon” Justin Long joins us for this episode of the Viall Files where we will recap two nights of the Bachelorette. As a true member of Bach Nation Justin can not just focus on the episodes at hand he has to get in his thoughts on lie detectors, passive aggressive gifts, and math problems. As we have learned, when these two get together the conversation can go in any direction. Where does Justin fall in the Noah vs Bennett debate? Who makes his heart flutter? How many contestant impressions will he do? Nick & Justin, a duo you can’t stop.  “That is a f*$% ing hard thing to say, I don’t like you, I don’t like you enough, that is very difficult.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rum Haven: http://www.discover.rumhaven.com for the latest tips, recipes, and giveaways. Headspace: http://www.headspace.com/VIALL for a free one month trial. Noom: http://www.noom.com/VIALL to sign up for your free trial.  Mejuri: http://www.mejuri.com/VIALL for 10% off your order  Brooklinen: http://www.brooklinen.com use promo code VIALL for 10% off your first order plus free shipping.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @justinlong See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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uh we have a great episode for you. Justin Long is back. He was here for the Ask Nick. If you haven't listened to the Ask Nick with Justin Long, it's one of my favorites. We've had some great guests on Ask Nick. He might be my favorite. He's great at advice. He really did a great job.

He did a great job. Make sure you check that out if you like listening to relationship problems and answers um you should check that out uh but his his his uh takes on the bachelorette are equally as strong and i know uh you guys are gonna gonna love it uh we'll get right to justin just a couple uh um house house cleaning is it house cleaning or just housekeeping housekeeping notes um sarah silverman helps us break down the bachelorette final the last two episodes next week and we have the final rose well there is no afr but we have the runner-up whoever that is i still don't know but i've been told we'll have the runner-up i'm enjoying being spoiled free on this show my guess it's going to

be zach or brendan if it's going to be Zach or Brendan. If it's Brendan, he can just give me a lot of shit by getting his name wrong so often. I'm still not 100% sure I'm saying it right. I'm just saying on this episode, you did pretty good. There was maybe one or two, but you hit the Brendan. I get in my head about it. Pretty good in this episode.

Anyway. So we'll have the runner up on this show. So make sure to tune in and uh other than that i think let's get right to justin long uh justin welcome back it's uh the week of justin uh i i just can't thank you enough for for being a big part of the vile files these past few weeks people have really enjoyed it and this is like uh i'm i've i'd like to think i'm competing and i've completed the uh viathlon yeah you really have like there's there's very few people who have who have done it nikki glazer has done all three you have now done all three shows that might be

the only two wow maybe yeah maybe lauren did lauren zima ever do an ass nick i don't know if she did anyways but yeah you're in rare company justin and i this i thank you for it and uh you're you're two for two you you crush the ass nick and i'm pretty confident that this might be your best your your boy so i'm your best for uh i'm due for a slip up i'm due for a really shitty we'll forgive you if you do but i have a feeling that you're gonna be just fine before we get into bachelor i have a personal question you were in la obviously recording with me and then now you're back on the east coast you you drove across country i did yeah i drove um so i took a slightly northern, not a northern route. I went through Utah, Colorado, Nebraska. You know, the only, I just think the only thing more boring than driving through those states is talking about driving through those states. Iowa, they're beautiful states. I didn't mean that. It's just like when you're in the car, you know, the first 20 minutes of Nebraska is like, God,

this is what a beautiful country we live in and the heartland. And just, I love farmland. And then you really romanticize it. And then like, you know, 30, 40 minutes in, it's like, okay, I get it. I want to, I got to pee. It's like, wow, we're in Delaware. You were scheduled to fly. Was it, did you decide to do this off of like,

it's safer because of the COVID world we're in? you ever done that like what made you want it like that's a i was like oh he's driving across the entire country what uh i yeah it was it was the it wasn't so much being on the plane it was i started looking at uh the news and they were showing they were showing footage of like the people in the airport, you know, just huddled together. And I got really, I got squirrely about doing that. But there were, as it turns out, like a lot of these stops, you know, obviously, you're stopping all the time for gas and to pee. And I have the bladder of a, like a four year old. And so I was constantly stopping. And a lot of these places, there weren't a lot of people wearing masks is what I discovered inside, which was a little disconcerting.

And I noticed they were looking at me. A few times I felt like they were looking at me. Like you would look at somebody wearing a mask and gloves pumping gas before the pandemic, you know? Yeah. Like it hadn't happened. Jeez. I saw the same thing driving here to Montana. It was the exact same way through Utah, through same thing driving here to montana it was the exact

same way through utah through idaho through all those things is that it's the exact same way yeah i felt really bad for this yeah anyway i don't want to be political but but um i was i was stunned by how few masks people were wearing not not just that it was that it was the energy that i got from some of them like what do what do you do? Why are you wearing? You look like a freak. Like I had a, you know, like a propeller beanie on my head or something. Wow. Well, was it at least like a bucket list thing to have done?

Or was it? Excuse me. I had done it. I had done it before. I would love to take the Northern route next time. I've never done that. So Chrissy, you said you went to Montana. I've never done that. So, Chrissy, you said you went to Montana. I've never done that.

It's beautiful. I've done cross-country like four different ways. So I think I've been to all states except for like four. Which ones? It's Kentucky, Alaska, Hawaii, and North Dakota. But other than that, I've hit every state and country. Yeah. Oh, Louisville I love. you should go to Louisville.

I would like to do that. I'd like to do that Northern route. It looks beautiful. And like parts of Colorado were just stunning. Utah. It's stunning. It's a, it's, I forget, I forget living on the coast. Like what a, what a beautiful country, you know, we live in. We're so lucky. But, yeah, and I also wanted to make it home for Thanksgiving, so I didn't have the luxury of stopping and seeing all the fun, weird sights that I think I would have done had I had some more time. But I did make it back in time. It was really nice.

Because I had been traveling, I had Thanksgiving with my parents, but I ate the dinner in another room. It's like I was wearing a mask around them just because I hadn't been from the time I left. You know, and people, I'm sure people are going to think this is now being overboard, going overboard. But, you know, they're a little older and I just wanted to be very cautious. Nothing wrong with that, Justin. But I was personally curious about your road trip, and so I haven't had a chance to ask you about it.

It was really fun. And I listen to a lot of books on tape. I listen to a lot of podcasts. There's a great one, this New York Times podcast called, oh, shoot, I'm going to forget it, but Michael J. Fox's book I listen to. It's incredible. Our hero. And he reads it.

So it was so nice to hear a performance of his again. He's one of my favorite actors. So I felt like I got to spend all of Kansas and Iowa with Michael J. Fox in the car. This is such a personal story that he's telling. And Woody Allen's book I started listening to. And again, it's him reading it. So it's like, you feel like you're there with these people in the car.

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it but watch back-to-back bachelor pride podcast yeah nice enough it was a real struggle i you were i was i'm so i feel so lucky to have gotten to see it. I was supposed to watch it with my brother and he's now nervous that I'm going to spoil something because we usually watch it together with his fiance. That's our little bachelor pod. But I'm very excited, very excited to have seen it early. I felt very special. Well, here you are. We open up with Blake finally getting a one-on-one. And I don't know about you, but I thought to myself, if Blake gets a rose on this date, that might be the biggest upset in Bachelor Nation history. I mean, we all knew, right? The only one who didn't know he wasn't

gonna get a rose was probably blake or did you or am i too did am i too read in on the show to have it be that obvious to me well you know blake i i always whenever contestants say things like when they reassert how real their connection is, you know, it's a real connection. And, oh, yeah, yeah, like we're definitely connected. You know, that to me is like a real red flag. And Blake did a lot of that. He was he was he sounded like he was treating it more like a competition. Yeah.

Whereas somebody like don't get me started on Brendan, how much I love him. But somebody like Brendan, when they say that it's real, which he does, I don't want to jump ahead, but he does later in the next episode, it's almost hard for him to say it. It's like a very, it's a very intimate thing to admit that he's having real feelings. Whereas Blake would, you know, he'd throw that around like,

oh yeah, yeah. He was just protesting. He thinks the lady doth protest too much. He was protesting a lot. So I knew that. And he has such an intense, you know, there's something so intense about him. Yeah, but then it's tough to read sometimes because Tayshia is so, she seems so compassionate and she's so good at being the bachelorette. She, which is, she's able to say nice things about the guys

and she can talk about them in a way that's, that's very complimentary. So, but yeah, I didn't think he was going to make it through. I just, I just felt bad for Tayshia having to cut so many. This is the first time it really struck me that a big part of the show is having to turn people down and having to say no to these people who are invested. Yeah, totally. It's the hardest part of the job, so to speak.

And because it's always the big setup, right? Like, let's give Blake the date where we're taking half our clothes off, where we're sitting at each other. We're really connecting, right? So awkward. So Blake is, like you said, he's just so earnest. And maybe that's like the kindest thing you can say. He takes himself, he takes his love journey very seriously.

We forget that he was one of the few guys that, other than Dale, was falling for Claire. Right. You know, that's right. Well, he also talks about it like it's a show, like it's a narrative on a show. And I think he is very aware of the show aspect of it, which it must be hard not to be. I don't I don't blame him but the way he talks about her and their connection it feels very like he's trying to write his own

love story his own narrative so do you do you think uh it's insincere or because i take it i take it as i see what you're saying and i kind of agree because it's like there's like there's like three different kinds of people go on the show, right? There's the kind of you're Brendan, right? Like the skeptic reluctantly goes on, maybe is lucky or unlucky,

depending on how you look at it, to catch feelings in struggling with the insane world that they're in and trying to process their feelings. Then there's, that seems like the rarest person. Yeah. Well, it happens to

like two or three people a season right yeah and then you have like you know the bennetts of the of the world and we'll get into it who's like literally like actively and playing a character like he's just like he doesn't give a shit and just he wants to lean and then you have people like blake that it's like they're good at kind of believing their own bullshit. So they allow to be manipulated by the environment, even though they believe what they're saying to be their truth. Yeah. I don't think it's sincere. I just think that's well said.

I think it comes from a place of wanting something for themselves. And in this case, which everyone does, and in this case which everyone does but in this case it's wanting to succeed on the show as opposed to wanting to cultivate a real connection that exists because like you know better than anyone either either a connection and you know within the first few seconds really minutes of meeting somebody whether or not there's a connection um and you know when you're close to somebody like that's why why the thing they made them do is so revealing that they made her straddle him, and they're inches away from each other.

And you could see in her eyes right away. Oh, right away. In a moment like that, it's like, I don't want to say literally hits you in the face, because that was one of the problems I had with Blake is that he misuses, a lot of them misuse literally. It's literally do or Cause I, that was one of the problems I had with Blake is that he misuses a lot of them misused. Literally. It's literally do or die.

Someone says at one point, no, it's not. It can't be. I mean, it'd be a different show. That'd be a crazy show. But when you're inches away from somebody like that,

it's like, it is impossible to deny the existence of those chemicals. And it's also impossible to fake and even blake i felt like in that moment he was you know you can see somebody struggling with how to play something how to play a moment and even blake struggled i think with how to it's it's it shouldn't be awkward that moment if you're really into somebody shouldn't be awkward it should be the best it's to be so obvious too but it's interesting i thought about this while watching it because it's like all right let's should we try to give blake the benefit of the doubt right because you know you know context is everything maybe we're

just not seeing everything maybe we're seeing snippets of of blake sounding a bit delusional but like the bachelor has shown many moments of of people being like i don't think she likes me that much you know or i don't i'm not seeing it or or when they go yeah i've seen that when they go into the day they're just like you know i'll be i'm gonna keep it real i feel like i'm behind some other guys but this is my opportunity to catch up you know things like some sort of like honest interpretation of where but you know blake goes in this like this is it i'm gonna like yeah i've had a lot of group dates but you know we're we're you know i i believe those moments have been valuable and

now it's it's it's a chance for me and i'm just like where did you in in what what are you basing this on blake you know well you could say the same for like you said how he felt or he was saying he felt about claire i felt that too there was, Claire was, it was even more striking because she was so just clearly into Dale that she kind of shortchanged everybody else. I mean, which you would naturally, I'm not blaming her, but he, I think it was even more delusional for him to, to, to have acted that way with Claire. And he, and he would use language like athletes use you know like you know i'm going in really i'm going into this uh feeling really good and feeling our

connection it's weird the way he talked about it like it was a sport yeah like yeah and that's that's probably just how he's like it is a company you't, even if you don't want it to be a competition, you, you, you know, you're competing with your peers. So, but yeah, I, I, Blake was this, and to that point of those three categories, the, the Blake persona, the person who just wants to believe the delusion is probably the most common. It's just easy to get caught up in that world. And in fairness to Blake, you're supposed to be falling in love with this person because like you said nick the environment around you is created because everybody else is falling in love with this person well yeah you almost feel like you're doing something wrong if you're not if you're right if you're not you know you don't want to be called out for not taking it seriously or of course but that all makes sense and that's why

it's i hesitate to say that it's phony or i use words like that because there is and you said this better than i could but there is a truth about that environment there there is there is a truth about how they're feeling in within that environment it's just that the environment is so heightened and weird and different than real life. So I don't know if Blake is, and also a lot of these guys seem like they probably have, were athletic, are athletic and competed in sports. And often that seems to come out, like a real sense of competition.

Like he had this wide-eyed, when he'd get picked, it was like, oh, great. Okay, now I'm going to be able to show what I can do, you know, on a date. Like he was ready to get in the game there, coach. You know, that's the sense that I got from him. And not, whereas somebody like Brendan, it's like there's a real sense that he just wants to spend more time with her. And that's the victory is like just getting to be around her. He's like calmer about it.

Yeah. Yes. Totally. Even when, i'll get to that later but i have a lot to say about brandon i just anyways but like kind of as expected you know right when when blake is like i feel it i feel the connection we're really connecting tation is like nope you know like and you know it gives her the excuse yeah but it's always like situations where like as soon as it happens like

i feel it well then taisha can say well because you do it's so obvious that i don't even though it was obvious before going in it was but it gives her yeah it makes it that much more gives her the hour and it gives her the app and i gotta say she is she is so likable and she's so good at this that, um, I, it's the first time I really felt, I felt for the bachelorette having to, having to say no to all these guys. Cause you know, especially somebody like Blake,

because whether or not it's real or however you want to diagnose it, he is saying these things that are very like intense. And then to follow that up with no like i don't like you enough i don't i don't i reject you that's that must take its toll on somebody yeah and i will say not emotional in no way being critical of taisha i think we learned a valuable life lesson and like in terms of breaking up and you know fast-forwarding a little bit to the tell all is that and granted in this context it's a show whatever but you know that's those were tasha's words but when you break up with someone at the risk of hurting their feelings or sounding

like the bad guy just be honest right because she kept saying she kept saying to blake if we had more time yes i know i know i thought that i wrote that down but in her defense he was saying he was demanding i mean that no i know but he was insisting that she give him something in the show i get why tasha did it she doesn't want to look mean she doesn't want to look insensitive and for all the reasons you compliment her for saying oh well she's empathetic and understand in in the real world i'm just saying if you're watching this and you're thinking this is how you break no because and i believe blake i actually believe him when he said in the tell-all he's like i with i thought about what you said the whole time yeah about like needing more time

and that happens like in real relationships you'll say someone to something and you're just saying because you don't want to be mean you want to make you i've done it i've made them i know yeah and you just sometimes a cold hard truth of i know i just don't i it's there's nothing that's going to make change this and i just think we need to move on is it hurts but it's the best thing the person can hear of course i know but but i can't imagine i can't imagine how difficult that how even more difficult that must be when you're on tv and you don't know totally lights and having to say but yeah i've been in blake shoes i've been in tations and um it is, but I would say, I think the lesson too for other, for anyone is that there is to find the truth in whatever, however the person said no to you. However the person said they weren't just, you know, that, excuse me for saying this, just that into you.

You have to just find, you have to hold on to that. I mean, because the rest is just window dressing. The rest is just their way of not being able to, like you said, really say it. That's a fucking hard thing to say, to say, I don't like you. I don't like you enough that is very difficult and it sounds so harsh right it sounds so harsh and sometimes we don't need to hear it but in in in tatia's defense people in blake's position you have to be open to hearing that right you have to like be you'd be willing to consider the possibility that you're just not a right fit for this person.

And also, you know, whenever, yeah, just read the room. I mean, a lot of these guys aren't great at reading the room. You're inches from her face and you're both getting sort of twitchy and uncomfortable. That's not natural. If you like, if there is a connection connection you're inches away from somebody you start going at it you start you know you start like that you can feel it yeah and so you literally can feel an energy it's it reminded me on on andy season the way back there was a moment we were in connecticut and we were on a date and we were standing next to each other and i literally said

can you feel that and she said yeah and we just started going at it and it's true because you can feel like whatever it is going on between the two and you're right in that situation if it was tasha was into someone they would have started making out i mean if we're going to spend a third of our life sleeping we might as well do it on the most comfortable sheets we can possibly imagine and brooklinen has those comfortable sheets i have brooklinen in my bedroom my guest bedroom i have brooklinen towels hand towels beach towels robes i have brooklinen loungewear and is you love the loungewear i can't say enough about it the loungewear it's it's every time i put it on i am not bullshitting you i'm always like wow that's soft every time I put it on, I am not bullshitting you. I'm always like, wow, that's soft. Every time,

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order that's major.com slash v-i-a-l-l for 10% off your order m-e-j-u-r-i.com slash v-i-a-l-l either that or if it were somebody like brendan they would have gotten they would have both recognized how palpable that moment is and then they would have gotten embarrassed for that reason and kind of looked away and gotten giggly and that happens too because it's like it is a tv show you can't really start you probably can't really just start going i mean you can i guess you can kiss but yeah yeah yeah but you're right you would acknowledge you acknowledge how much you'd want to or like i'm just excited or you'd be a giggle or or something that's that to me is the other weird thing about the show that might be worth talking about is that that when you do when

i they do kiss and make out on it it's so um there's something so chaste about you know how it's being done just physically like uh they uh, there, these are adults who are, who are like avoiding certain parts of the body and their hands are very strategically placed. And, um, it, that's, that's always interesting to me that like,

uh, it, it just seems so like high, there's a high schoolness to it, but which it has to be right. Cause it's on TV you can't yeah touch certain things no and that's but it's a it's a show about withholding love and that's why you fall in love because you what you you want so much you want to touch and other things you can't have and that and

what you was you would normally have an early dating situation that that's what makes you want that person so much yeah it's all pent up it's building up and it's but having said that did blake really have a boner during that shot no i i don't know i'd be curious i don't know maybe because blake has kind of like even said throughout like he kind of openly it's like he wants to just tell the world he's just a horn horny guy but he kind of alludes to it now and then he does he doesn't to just tell the world he's just a horn horny guy he kind of alludes to it now and then he does he doesn't have to tell the world it's obvious so maybe he did maybe he did but the show also has been known to like throw up black black boxes to insinuate things that don't

need to be there like you throw up a black box you're like oh what's behind the box i don't know i bet yeah so what's in the box yeah i bet um yeah i've noticed that before they do it with some of the female contestants with if they're wearing a bikini or something they're like oh they're drunk and totally not in its proper place so blake gets sent home taisha's all torn up about it um then they have you know then why does she get so upset if it's not is that just is that just like oh i don't i don't want to hurt somebody and he he was um i uh i uh there's there's she seems like a compassionate a little bit of theatrics in those moments sometimes yeah um yeah it's just about her than about him it's's just listen, there's a combination of a couple of things. We're at the point of the season.

Tayshia is emotionally and physically exhausted. Right. So a lot of times these emotions come out where like you're just fucking spent. All right. And you do feel bad. And then some of it is this like she probably like stood there for ever until she had the waterworks or something. And then sometimes it's just more like you don't want to look like the dick

for breaking up with someone, so you allow yourself to feel a little bit more. I always equate it to it's not fake tears. It's just like usually when you cry, you hold back your tears. We always kind of hold them back. We get choked up. That's why we get choked up because we're trying to hold things back and on that show you don't get choked up you just let it fucking go like there's no restraint so that's interesting uh you say that nick like whenever i see a crying scene in a movie um and i've been watching a lot of hallmark movies lately. And so I like a holiday movie. So I noticed this a lot on those, those Lifetime Christmas movies where, and Brendan, not to keep bringing up Brendan, but he had a, there's a great example of this when he talks about his brother. It's, you're right.

Yeah, you get choked up. You get choked up, but you don't want to. It's what you, you try to hold it back. And the best crying scenes to me in movies are when they're fighting tears and they're trying to hold them back. And then the ones to me that are just not as genuine are when you can see them pushing the tears. And certainly this, you'll see this in a movie where like a character cries

and they don't wipe away the tear. They kind of let it, they're like, I know in their head, you know, an exception would be in like Glory, with that great crying scene in Glory when Denzel Washington is, oh, it's just like, I get in chill. I have chills. I watched it like two months ago. It was good. Oh God, who will take the flag up? I will. Oh flag up I will

oh god I'm getting chills but when Denzel Washington that tear comes down that's different he's bound he's like and he kind of wants him

to see it he wants him to there's anger there's so much in that tear but for the most part when I see an actor crying and not wiping away a tear

it's like it's the same as when somebody usually women, cause they have longer hair, somebody's in peril, you know, and they're, and they're struggling and,

or they're running for their life. They're in a struggle that is very high stakes and they fix their hair. Yeah. That, that to me too, is when I'm like, no, I'm out.

Yeah. I'm out. You wouldn't do that. The fake eye wipe. Oh, the fake one is the worst one. There's nothing even there. I don't mean to call it out, but the Sarah Jessica Parker, I call out. Yeah. I'm out. You wouldn't do that. Or the fake eye wipe. Oh, the fake one is the worst one. There's nothing even there. I don't mean to call it out, but the Sarah Jessica Parker, I call it.

Oh, she does that. She always does this. Really? And always does this. Where would we put Tayshia's tears in the spectrum of? I don't, that's a good question. I don't know. You would know better than me.

I just think she, I don't know where it's coming from. She does strike me as somebody who is very, she seems very compassionate. She seems like she doesn't want to hurt these guys. I'm sure a lot of it is. But then, and I don't want to jump ahead too much. It's okay. When she admonished Ben for not having, I mean, Ben, that's a good example. When Ben got sent home she she seemed upset that

he didn't show her enough um which is yeah well you think you compare you're right compare taisha sending home ben who we all thought i mean honestly what's the biggest surprise for me this season i thought he might be the winner right and then all of a sudden did it you know but either way strong connection compared to blake yeah right you compare totally and then she and then she's like on the floor balling so it's like yeah which one and it's interesting that's where it's just like okay you know it's a little and i actually think the ben was more sincere because she like she likes bet and she's mad at him for not doing enough because she felt like she was doing enough and with and that and with blake it was like i just i don't can you just go and not make it weird

yeah but is that but but what does that mean is that selfish is that why does she need that from ben why does she need ben to match whatever emotions she's having it's she's the one saying no she's gonna watch it back and be like oh crap well it was like so emotional it made it made it was obvious to me more than any episode this epictetius love language is clearly words of affirmation like she needs to hear from you why and how how you feel about she needs she says that about somebody like ivan right she's like i like ivan because it's usually one of the first things she says she how you feel about it. She says that about somebody like Ivan, right? She's like, I like Ivan because it's usually one of the first things she says.

He makes me feel, I forget how, you know, secure or whatever it is because he's constantly affirming. And that Ben withheld that in that moment, in that like heightened high stakes moment, that really seemed to bother her, which I liked Tayshia a lot. I don't mean, I, that really seemed to bother her, which I liked Taysha a lot. I, I don't mean,

I don't want to shit on her, but, but that felt kind of selfish and it felt like ego drip and ego driven response to this guy was like, this guy just, he just had, I felt like he was really hurt. He seemed,

he seemed genuinely speechless to me. You know, the cameras are on. She's just met these important people in his life, and she's rejecting him. To me, it's like, let the guy behave however he wants. You know, that felt genuine. He doesn't want to give too much in that moment.

I don't know. I was very... It's tough. I mean, in defense to Tayshia, like, I totally agree with that. And, like, in a bubble a bubble you know but she's also just responding to questions and process like it's her job to let us know how she feels even at the risk of sounding selfish and I actually I'm glad she was honest about that even though we now can critique it I guess because it's not Riley too. Right. Riley. Riley was more close to the Blake cry where it was like,

I think she just felt really guilty and bad, but it was clear. I don't think she ever really had a strong connection with Riley. I think she respected Riley. I think she liked, you know, appreciate the man that he was. Yeah.

Riley did a thing that really bothered me that Ben did as well. A lot of them do where they'll where they will um touch the girl the woman's face and like pull them into a kiss in this really like cringy way like um yeah i think ben did it i think ben even blindfolded her somebody blindfolded her and like kind of tricked oh no no that was bennett yeah i was like ben ben ben did it right at the end of his hometown like he couldn't say i loved you so like he tried to he grabbed her and kissed her and she like reluctantly kissed him back which to me what didn't that feel like i i don't want to speak for this guy and i don't know and i i don't want to

project how i would behave onto him but if you somebody, the few times that I've said that, it just kind of spills out, doesn't it? Doesn't it? You know, maybe I'm not accounting for the cameras and doing it publicly and all. That must be just so, I can't imagine. Yeah, it's hard because I agree with you, right? I'm similar to you where you're like, you say it and you're like, am I crazy? Because I want to say this, right? Like, I want to throw it out there.

But who knows? Ben clearly, he's been very open about kind of some mental health issues. He talked about he's never cried. You know, this is a person who obviously talked about suicide. And now he's mentioning he's never, he doesn't know if he has that side of him. I mean, wow. That was intense. Unpack that.

Excuse me. But then the thing that didn't make sense was when his sister, Madeline. Great name. I love that name. Didn't Madeline say, or one one of the was that Madeline's it's Maddie and Antonia Antonia and they put

I was missing that they put no context around Antonia it's her best friend is that her partner girlfriend just a family friend oh I thought maybe

it was her lover yeah we didn't know we didn't yeah well one of them I like them both so much but one of them said one of them said that Ben wears his heart on his sleeve.

And doesn't that expression mean he shows his emotion? I mean. Yeah. He constantly, he's very open about how he's feeling. Yeah. But here's a guy who's then admitting that he doesn't, he doesn't cry and do that. Well, I can see how someone like his sister who you would you know let's just for argument's sake knows him better than anyone so she's had how many years to understand ben and

how he expresses his feelings so it's probably just very easy for her to be like see this has been being emotional right for someone like tasha who needs to literally hear from your mouth how he feels about you she's like i don't know i don't see it i don't he you know so i can see why her sister's able to say that yeah well tasha's not able well now i'm able to feel that because that tasha needs to hear it that's true yeah and and you know maybe this is the best don't you sometimes think when you see a guy like ben who ended up being really likable i think and um don't you often find yourself thinking like god you should not be doing this on a show you should

like you should you should pursue a relationship outside of a tv show i i i hope he does because i i'm rooting for him and i know he's been through a lot. But it really struck me at the end of that episode. Like maybe he's just not equipped with the cameras and some people just aren't. I totally agree. I mean, just Ben's whole time on the show has been, for me and even a lot of cast people, kind of an interesting one, right? On one side, like, listen, amazing. You're bringing awareness to something like suicide. It's something that we don't talk about enough.

It's swept under the rug and that literally can save lives. Should someone like Ben, who not so recently dealt with this be on a show like this last year, last year. And is it safe for him to be on? I mean, people who go into the show with, with strong mental health come out of this show,

uh, with it, the show damages your mental health. A lot of people can work through it. Right. And, and, and it's not because you're vilified and it's not,

you know, people can work through it right and and it's not because you're vilified and it's not you know a lot of my friends who have nothing but glorious edits have had mental health struggles as a result of the show like you know just going from zero to 100 with attention it just it just messes with all of us in different ways and so of course it's been kind of interesting you know watching ben and and i i agree with you i think it's great that he brought awareness i i appreciate him being vulnerable if you know patricia sent him home i think that's probably the best thing for everybody yeah and i'm i'm really i'm rooting for him but i i just think um maybe he needs some more time in the real world to to kind of solidify this new person that he is and I just hope he's not

it's interesting you say that Nick and it makes perfect sense that that it leads to more mental health struggles you know being on a show like that and and uh I just hope it doesn't give him more obstacles now in his life he seems like a really nice person I i i dm'd him after the show last week and i thanked him and he was very gracious and he was he mentioned how it was therapeutic and i just said great but just know i'm whether it's me or someone else in the show just don't be afraid to talk about it because i've struggled with my mental health from the show my friends have and if it weren't for people that's cool we've had shared experiences and i and i don't not to meant like but i just and i and he's like and i'm happy to report it sounds like he's this has been a very positive thing and i and i what i

mentioned to him and i only really i bring this up is i said well when the high wears off yeah let me know because yeah this this experience is a high right oh? Oh, yeah. The serotonin hits must be, and the dopamine, it must be like, you know, it must be really intense. And there is without question a hangover. The followers. Yes. And when you have the hangover,

that's when you don't be afraid to reach out to anyone who can relate to that experience. Well, that's nice if you don't offer yourself as a resource because, yeah. I think other people have too. And I think people in our alumni group could could always do we need to do better we need to be more inclusive but like and it happens from time to time because it's as hard to it's hard to relate but i am glad that's interesting the high to describe it as a hangover i i've seen that with

a lot of actors um i you know especially actors who have a lot of a lot of success very quickly when they're younger that seems to be the the perfect storm for um you know disastrous uh mental health issues later later in life and i've seen it i've seen it happen it's and i've seen that hangover and how people respond to it and And it'd be nice to have somebody to, I think you did a real, it's a nice thing you did. I mean, to offer yourself a service. I think I'm sure,

I think other people have too, but I, I'm happy to report he has, but yeah, I agree with you that I think, I mean, I know we're jumping around. It's totally fine.

We do it all the time. I am. I'll say it right here since we're focusing a lot on Ben, I would be shocked if we don't see ben still before the season's over uh yeah because it seemed the way they edited uh seemed like there was there may be a different resolution like you might come now that's happening more frequently people coming back yeah that that that happens uh from time to time but usually as you know like it's the the norm is the bennett right you sent me home i didn't like i oh by the way i love you right

you know and it just reads is so insincere right we have so many insincere i loves you on love you on this show that when someone really feels like they really strongly feel and can't get the words out like i i just very few does that person not given every opportunity to come back if he wants to say it like bennett i mean ben he drove around in circles right they're on this compound it's not like when he goes home he just goes back to his room right so i wouldn't be shocked if there's some drama that unfolds with ben coming back and is able to give taisha that's true i didn't think about the words of affirmation that she so desires and how will that play out well is it too will it be i mean i guess this would probably be too late

i think for ben's i hope for ben's sake it is too late but he's able to get the words out and feel good about himself that he's able to say it yes because you don't want i mean there i'll tell you like that it said to regret anything i mean regret is a terrible thing it's something i've struggled with and it is the the last thing you want for a guy like ben who who has been in you know dire mental positions you don't want him to um to regret anything and like he didn't felt like he didn't speak his truth or whatever um i just wonder if again like i just wonder i just hope he doesn't make the mistake of in an effort to uh have some sort of closure and and um give her what maybe she wanted i hope he doesn't say i love you or i to say I love you, if it doesn't feel that way.

Because I really do think there's some value in the fact that he was not able to say it in that moment. Interesting. That's a really interesting point, Justin, because you have, in that world, there is a pressure to say it, whether it's actually verbalized pressure. He even got the pressure from his sister. So then we look at someone like Ben is.

I know the sister's like, you do love her. I mean, like, let him get it out. And so then it's like, I could see the gears turning. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I do. It's crazy. But he didn't say, I love her. He just kept saying, it's crazy. It's great.

It's wild. Whoa. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I'm really torn on that is does is does ben struggle verbalizing it or is he just maybe more in tune with his feelings that anyone wants to give him credit for i i i yeah i mean i would like to give him that credit i also think like you have to really even with somebody i love, God, I love the connection between Brendan and Tayshia so much.

I think it's such a rare, it makes me so happy to see them together and they seem like they, but even something like that, there's, it's, to me, I would say that's clear they like each other. It's clear they have chemistry and that is so clear. But love is something that I think you need. but love is something that I think you need. I think of something that I've learned just, you know, later in my life is that a huge component of love has got to be trust.

Yeah, being safe. Being safe, you know, and we've talked about this. And I think, like, can you really know you love somebody if that hasn't been tested, you know, if everything's been in this bubble at the la quinta resorts and it's all been kind of like laid out for you and the cameras are can you really say you love somebody i don't know but to that end and if at the you know brandon is probably the one who probably makes taisha feel the most safe maybe zach Zach as well, because Zach, yeah.

Uh, but Brandon can relate and there's a calmness to Zach. I mean, to, to Brandon that Zach doesn't have. Yes, totally. And I think that makes you feel pretty safe.

Uh, getting back to like, let's, let's, uh, let's discuss Noah and Bennett, uh, before we get too far ahead with the other guys.

And that, that'll, I mean, that's kind of the the meat of the tell-all anyways where do you land on on bennett and noah um i am very much team noah same all right i'm glad i assumed you would be but i'm glad i'm glad to hear it i i think bennett was really manipulative and uh and for Noah for reasons that aren't totally clear to me. I think he must have been threatened by him, threatened by the ease with which Noah operated on that show.

Noah had a real easiness to him. Even in the tell-all when he's talking to taisha he i i like i there was something refreshing about the way he said um i had a blast with you i had a fun time you know i don't know he he struck me as a very sincere guy i i whereas bennett was almost the polar opposite he he felt like uh very performative um incredibly performative it's like he was playing the role of like an 80s douchey villain in you know one of those movies like porky's or revenge the nerds like i could see showed up with a purple scarf in an indoor atmosphere you know like he's yeah clearly even this kind of like he had i don't know how affected it is but it felt affected his his the the way he spoke was almost like he had this it was like he had studied he may have come

from a he might come from a very wealthy i don't know his background but i didn't he allude to the fact that he didn't come from a well he alluded to it but like i it could be just a total lie and maybe it's just perspective maybe he's's referring to the fact that he grew up with people whose families were billionaires. And his family was only worth millions. I don't know. You never know. Because I don't know how you have that persona or personality, whatever it is. It felt very much like a persona for the show.

is it felt very much like a persona for the show but i don't know how you you curate something like that without having some kind of background as a as a aristocratic wealthy individual just felt like he was but he talks about his presence so much he's so aware of the what he gives off he was like well this is who i am this is up. You're intimidated by me. That's the hypocrisy and the lack of self-awareness is that he talks about being so aware of his persona. His persona reads as someone who is a villain, who wants to be the douchebag, who wants to be condescending. He wore a purple scarf indoors.

You know, like, you're doing this. And you're referring to it. It reads that way, but I think he may have been trying. I just wrote down. Bennett is consumed by his role. I think he like was trying. Yeah, I think he was.

I think he was thinking that that role was impressive. I think he was playing impressive more than wealthy, douchey, entitled guy. I think, which is, you know, no,

that was perfect. like i i think you are summed it up and articulated it very well that he was consumed by his role like i think he he kind of broke his own fourth wall on the show and was like i'm gonna i want to be a character right but the question is how much of this is actually benn in life, or how much is this Bennett decided to act on a TV show? I don't know. I hate to sound, this is going to sound like intellectually snobby, but I was, and it may have been in the editing, but I was stunned by how little he knew in that trivia game they played. For a guy who went to Harvard, i mean harvard is yeah obviously it's it's a great school i he and and some of the words he chose it was like he was sound

trying so hard to sound i'll use something that he would say erudite you know he was trying so hard to sound impressively erudite where where um i'm trying to think of but the words he chose were not all that impressive all the time but he would say them as though like he'd be like poor man's pierce brosnan yeah kind of or the poor man's um do you remember uh it were like gore vidal or some like there were these intellectuals that had this air about them that um that that had had a very mid-atlantic accent they sort of sounded like this you know they sounded kind of you know who sounds like that is um is in goodwill hunting uh oh my god i'm gonna blink oh the the guy at the bar the ponytail the professor oh that guy too that the guy the ponytail guy yes yeah totally ponytail guy is very blake but i was thinking of the professor

um who plays the role he or he plays one of his therapists that uh oh the math professor george plimpton yeah george plimpton was this um incredible person and like personality and but george plimpton had this very kind of hoity-toity erudite way of speaking. It's almost like Bennett's trying for that. He's going for that. Oh, the therapist for, yeah, in Good Will Hunting was like, I can't do that. This is beneath me. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. When he starts singing Afternoon Delight. Yes. Afternoon Delight. Yeah. Yeah. I felt that way about Bennett where he was, but he wasn't all that, to me, Noah felt just

as bright, if not brighter. Oh, Noah's way smarter. Way smarter. I think Bennett values sounding smart. Yes. And he values people thinking he's smart and he's less concerned about actually being smart, right? Yes, yes.

So he has his talk track he knows what works for most people and he probably recognizes that most people in this world don't take the time to ask follow-up questions they just assume by how he looks they're going to assume he's smart where if you get noah and if you get bennett in a room and you're like all right let's let's see what you got he crumbles in fact um we we talk with noah coming up and he refers to that uh you know for the people listening that like if if bennett hasn't planned out what he's going to say he won't he can't think on the spot oh that's interesting that's noah's interpretation oh that's interesting yeah he see he felt very rehearsed he felt very um like he

but poorly performing some of the his speeches and his moments like like when he gave the gift that to me is something there's also something so immature about that that's the irony is that Bennett was accusing Noah of being too young and too whatever but Bennett behaved like such a baby about that he he had this this gift bag for him, and Noah called it out right away. He, like, spotted it. It was like, oh, this is passive-aggressive. You're doing this to make a point.

This is not a genuine gift. Much like his apology on the tell-all was not a real apology. He couched it. It was all qualified. I can't stand guys like that. I can't stand people like that. That's a great etiqu people like that yeah sorry i made you feel that way i'm sorry you know it's they it's all about that person you feel that way not about their actions yeah or even if they say i made yeah it's your your their focus is on how that person's

interpretation of your actions not totally not what you. Oh, that's infuriating. That drives me nuts. And Noah, to his credit, was very, he stood his ground. And he, even though a bunch of those guys, Ed, oh, God, Ed, a bunch of those guys were ganging up on him. It's almost, those really insecure guys, when they smell blood, they really, they converge, you know know on somebody like noah i was disappointed in ed and yeah yeah because you kind of you watch those and you're just like it's so

obvious and then yeah the only explanation for the ads or kenny was you smell blood you think this you think the crowd is going to agree with Bennett, and therefore that's what you do. And they couldn't be present in the moment to listen to what was saying. They thought Noah was the villain, and so they're going to disagree with the villain. And then they ended up sounding like idiots. It wasn't a good look.

It wasn't a good look. It wasn't a good look. I also think they were probably threatened by Noah because he does have this kind of affable. He's got this charm. He's got like a very easygoing. He clearly had a connection with Tayshia because he, whereas those guys didn't seem to at all.

So they may have just been threatened by that. Yeah, I mean, it could be all those things. But it was, it's like, yeah, it's like Bennett, fine. He's doing his stick and maybe it's like yeah it's like bennett fine he's doing his stick and maybe it's a caricature he has his own issues but it's like at least think for yourself the other guys i was like the the people who attempted to defend noah definitely won some credibility because they were like this is this is ridiculous was it damar who it was damar who defended even even chasen like i loved how he defended

chasen who who wasn't there for some reason at the tell all why wasn't he there i wondered that we don't know so sometimes it always happens i thought it was odd though it's like all right if chase is not gonna be on the show i'm surprised they spent any time talking about it they usually don't do that if someone's not there to defend themselves it was such a they talked about it more through the lens of the other guys it was also such a big he was such a big part of that show chasing but i i thought demar i i could i agreed with literally everything demar said it doesn't matter whether you agree with chasing or not but just like how like you're you just decided what he said was disingenuous based off of like literally nothing.

Yeah, exactly. And so what? So he used, what was their, what was the issue that they took with him? Smoke show was somehow a. Smoke show. That's right. That he used the same language to describe both contest, both Claire and. Smoke show was his new word.

Oh, that was the new. That was the new word. Don't even get me started... A smoke show was his new word. Oh, that was the new... That was the new word. Don't even get me started on the smoke show. But it's... What do you think of smoke show, Chrissy? I think it's so douchey. It wasn't that the word was smoke show. It was that he presented it in a way that was like,

he literally said, this is my new word. I'm going to call her smoke show. Oh, right, right, right. But you're confusing chasen being simple minded maybe and and yeah and maybe not as charismatic as noah as someone who's bad ill intentioned there's that's two different things also you don't know this um justin but no chasen just reminds chrissy of some guy she was hung up on for a better part of the decade i mean chasen is not i don't think i mean if i showed you you'd be like oh okay i get it

there might be a little truth in that but i just thought that was douchey the way it said it is he's definitely douchey i mean that's not he's definitely douchey. I mean, that's not he's definitely douchey, but it's like, why concern yourself that much? And a lot of those guys, whenever they have such a problem with things like that, it starts to read as though they are guilty of a similar thing themselves. I mean, you know, people in glass houses, I think like Ed for sure was you know ed is not necessarily there he kept accusing other people of being there for the wrong reasons and um and i don't know i did it seemed like that well it's a classic case kind of like you said before it's much easier just to tell yourself the reason you're not getting times because someone else is stealing yours as opposed to well i'm not getting time because she doesn't want to talk to me she doesn't like me as much i mean it's that's a tough

thing for the and a lot it's i it's tougher for some some of those guys to face than others and i love those excuses i love that if she had you know what is the one they always say oh i wish i had more time you know it's just i wish i had more time i wish i could have shown her you know more of me if she had seen more of me she'd you know it's like these are guys that have never really been rejected in their in their lives so it's uh it's always you could see them they don't know how to respond i think it's a very unfamiliar position for a lot of these guys to be in yeah no i i would agree i mean do we want to spend any time on Yosef other than like I was truly very few times am I blown away by someone's willingness to just act like a terrible human being on national

television. I know. That's what Chris Harrison. Yeah. Right. Because like Noah is a perfect example of like listen the show needs drama they need a villain whether it's in the actual sense or just like in a

TV personality and like Noah kind of took one for the team so to speak at parts of the season right but the show is like they're not trying to like bury anyone type of thing right like and then you have someone like Yosef like who they bring out who like they

like they love a good contrition uh uh and a self-awareness like hey you know what i i got caught up in the moment uh i certainly had a strong opinion but i i it no no woman should be talked to that way i wouldn't want a guy to talk to my daughter that way etc etc etc and the guy comes out it was a layup guns blazing i know it was just so wild i'm just i'm watching it thinking what's the angle i don't what is the what is the defiant i wondered that i don't know i mean every one of those guys and to their credit they spoke up and but it was undeniable that to me that's like like, you could say, you could even argue in favor of Bennett or, I mean, it'd be tough, but I can see, you know, it's possible. There's some gray area.

But with a guy like that, and when they played it back, I'd forgotten just how abusive and just how deeply misogynistic he was being at the time. It certainly didn't age very well. Um, no, but he, I got it. What a, what a horrible display.

And now he's got time to sort of reflect and the emotions aren't there. And the ego maybe is abated. So you would think he, he would take the, he would take that opportunity, you know, and, and they were certainly giving it to

him like you said they like i've noticed that they like a good redemption story and um and yeah it was incredible i mean in a way in a in a sinister way there's something admirable about about that i guess that he was i mean he is oh god all i could think about is like god just like how could any woman want to watch it and go i want to get in a relationship with the guy so that when he's like, so then when we disagree with each other, there is like, he will never back down. he he he what he kept emphasizing is how much pride he took and yeah and not having his mind being changed i'm not going to let people change my mind this is how i feel and the honorable thing to do is to put my foot down and and hold true to what i thought and he would he was trying to spin that in some sort of noble action and that's a dangerous person to be in a relationship with. That's a danger.

Yeah. When you have disagreements. But he also has a daughter who sees him talking that way and probably goes to school. That's what made me really depressed. Yeah. That's the first. That's what made me depressed. No, it was a sad moment.

I was just like, ugh, gross. Because it's one thing for a human being like that to be out there and operating in the world. And you think, okay, well, that's how, that's who he is. That's how he is. And hopefully he won't hurt many more people. But he has a charge. You know, there's a girl out there who looks up to him and is going to hear this. And that's really sad.

It's really sad. hear this um and that's really sad it's really sad and and i also wonder how much of that is not to sound like the old guy but how much of that is a product of a social media culture that doesn't allow for um you know real dialogue and a genuine back and forth and a you know i think people it's easier for people to be set in their ways on social media well it's interesting that you say that because if if i'm trying to find not necessarily any justification but reasons of his mindset going in and how he was able to justify it for himself is claire wasn't all that liked by the end of her run on the show right she was in the sense the villain of her own season there are certainly some very conservative people out there uh people who even love to hate

on you know and a lot of women won the show and a lot of women love to hit on other women and so i guarantee you uses use of dms were flooded with a lot of people were like you know what i'm glad you said that i'm glad you think i wonder i bet he with a lot of people who were like, you know what, I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you called, Claire. I bet he got a lot of those. He also probably got a lot of hate, but he could have chosen to just be, you know, sometimes people look for criticism and people look for validation. More people look for verification that they were right. And if he was looking for it, he definitely had a lot of people DMing him saying,

you know, thanks for standing up for what was right. Oh, I bet you're right. Oh, my God. I bet you're right. And he went into that tell-all feeling justified. And empowered by all that positive reinforcement. And empowered by, like, you know, 30 DMs. Wow.

Yeah, he definitely didn't strike me as, I mean, he is the extreme, he's such an extreme example of somebody who is not looking to be corrected or or to be critiqued at all i mean the fact that he stood there in a room sat there in a room full of his peers and and chris harrison who was being really patient and i think they all they must all look up to him he must be an authority figure to all them they must there must be respect at least. He's the guy who's been and he is so patiently trying to, giving him this out and the fact

that he would, wow, I wonder if, I bet you're right. I mean, I don't know how else to explain that. Yeah, I don't know how else to explain it either and that definitely does happen. I mean, without knowing for certain, I'm like 90, like I've never been more certain about something I can't prove that Yosef got a bunch of DMs of people agreeing with him. Well, you know, I had forgotten this, but the craziest thing that he did, I think the one, the moment that was the most revealing about how he thinks and who he is is when, when he started talking about his,

his daughter and this is taking away time from my daughter. And I've, I've heard other bachelors say that before. They've, they've used the kid that they're not able to see as, you know, things are as, as evidence of how important this is to them or whatever however

they've used it but in this case he she's claire tried to commiserate with him and she was like yeah you know my mother is dying and she literally says she's dying and yeah she's dying dying not he cuts her off sick dying yeah and he doesn't hear it except as a as as something that is stepping on what he said yeah hold on hold on a second let me let me finish my thing i mean that to me was like what more do you need to see out of a human being like that that's the thing that i would if i were him uh and i'm so glad i'm not i would be most embarrassed by you know shame no it was really shameful i can usually watch the show like you just said and even with the bennetts be like all right maybe he's playing a character you see the nuances the sides and i still yeah reserve right

to like judge bennett as a human being until i meet bennett in person and like have a conversation with him right yeah but this this Yosef situation it's just like now I have scary no fucking interest and and hearing him out he he was given an opportunity ample opportunities and and and quite frankly to your point Chris Harrison didn't have to do that but Chris was just like come on man like no one wants to see yeah I bet no one wants to see this message put on national television but that's you know so but what what do you think was the thing that triggered why do you think that triggered him so much about the other contestants taking off their clothes do you i started to think well maybe he has like a you know maybe he's embarrassed of his uh his body or you know maybe

he's not super confident and if he were in that position there's a small uh you know d energy there um yeah there really is i mean that's well i forgot that he wasn't even on the damn date he wasn't even there i know he had been worked up about something prior to that i kind of forget but he was already maybe he just felt uh like he wasn't getting enough attention from her or he didn't have a real connection with her maybe he was already thinking i mean he he joseph has to work through some shit whatever it is don't know hard yeah but uh um just one last word on bennett did you notice what a terrible walker he is one last word on Bennett did you notice what a terrible walker he is

he was so bad at walking he does this thing where sometimes it's like when they walk with a hand in their pants when it's this it's like you can't see it but it's like self conscious

hand in the pants he's thinking about every movement and every motion every motion yes yes yeah like his head would almost literally with his like nose in the air you know kind of like he's not walking he's thinking about his gait yes yes yes every every you're right every moment how is this how is my hand looking how is my jawline looking it he is so self-aware i guess that's the best way to say which is so fascinating i just don't understand how tasha after he said i love you in the mo i mean it was like he was at the creepy it it was

like he was at the dmv or something and he was like, you know, I have to, like, apply for a – I got a new car. There was something so kind of, like, weirdly – He failed his driver's test, and his only ought was, like, hey, Dorothy? I love you. Yeah. Yeah. Do I pass now? Yeah.

And, like, kind of sweaty. There was that sheen of like, you know, the ones that are, I think, a little bit more fraudulent get sweatier. That's my theory is that they start sweating a little bit more. But yeah, it's your body's rejecting your own words kind of thing. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Like, what are you doing? No, this is not real.

Like, what are you doing? No, this is not real. But he started sweating and he had this kind of like, there was almost like this mischievous little smirk that he got after he said it. Like, do you accept that? I just can't believe that Tayshia wasn't like, because I've seen this happen on the show and it's crazy. Whenever they, whenever the contestant, they're ones that feel i forget the

last one to do this but they feel like they're losing they feel like that there's not as much so they use one of their moments with with them to be like i love you i like drop the i love you too early and they and they get called out on it and it is oh the best well it's like to the extreme it's like they're on a group date they're not even even talking to the lead one-on-one. And then it's like, I got cheated on in the third grade. You know, it's like. Yes, yes, yes. It's like, what? I'm sorry, but this is not the time.

That came out of nowhere. But I can't believe she was like, and maybe this is how they edited her. But she was like, wow, I got to really think about this. Do you think she seems smart and perceptive do you think she didn't see through that that she um that it gave her i can't believe it gave her pause it really yeah whether i don't know how you edit around that it she really made it seem like she there was some you know it was that classic she made it seem there was some like something about bennett that she was drawn to maybe she wasn't going to be a

person but she yeah you know i think i mean taisha said it i think taisha likes the finer things in life she said she was bougie she is very she is very bougie from the little bit I know. Yeah, I guess Tayshia is. Well, she's from Orange County. What? Orange County, right. Well, yeah. So maybe that was it. Maybe it was as simple as he can provide a comfy life.

So yeah, maybe that's it. But she definitely didn't have the response that you would think she would have. Sure, it'd be like, all right. Don't do that. Yeah. It was so easy for her. He just doesn't also exude sex to me, right? As a girl watching it, I don't look at Bennett and be like, yeah, I want that guy to throw me against the wall, you know? Oh, he was so stiff.

He was so stiff. He looks like it's like, hey, let me be polite before I hit you up missionary. Yes. Oh, God. It was whenever he that's the one that when he would kiss her, it was like, ah, it was so cringy. It was like he did. I think he's the one that blindfolded her during the I forget what the circumstances

were. And he like just went in for this kiss. It was so gross. It was so gross it was so like predatory and like and my guess is that's what bennett hates most about noah because he sees noah and he knows that noah can do all those things noah exudes yes yeah yes noah is like and confident and like they had a real yes yeah ease he had an ease about him and no and bennett was the opposite bennett was ironing the sheets before you get into the bed to do it oh yes god and pointing out where the sheets are from and the thread count and how much they were and yeah

he's thinking more about his hand placement as associated to how he looks rather than his how it the person responds to it yes totally like bennett bennett bennett has sex like he's always filming a porno like he's looking at himself in the mirror more than he's looking at her yeah no it's definitely the american psycho of it all uh yeah it's very america it's very patrick bateman it's also very like their dynamic noah and bennett reminds me of um like jack from uh titanic like dicaprio and billy zane you know don't they have that kind of like uh yeah noah's kind of a younger uh he's i also like that he's a nurse he's like a travel nurse and didn't bennett belittle him about something like that one bennett was just so belittling right away um and dismissive of noah and i love that noah

called him out um yeah i was fighting coronavirus in the icu in january but before people were even calling it coronavirus no shit yes december is that true yeah wow we find you know we talk about a little bit more with him tomorrow but yeah i mean and then that's the thing you know like i'm biased for someone who comes from a large family but like noah has substance and that's intimidating for some people especially someone like bennett who values himself is being so substantive but yeah rather he's more of like a shell you know well it's all with you said it i think chris you said it's all optics with bennett i mean it's all about his said it i think chris you said it's all optics with benny i mean it's all about his the appearance i mean he's a really bad uh glasses probably don't even have

real lenses i'm just kidding it's fashion frames i mean fashion frames i'm not i i've i've worn a fashion frame so you know hey i can't but you admit to it he wouldn't admit to it yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't be surprised, Chrissy. I would not be shocked. And the way he played with them like it was a prop. It's like a bad, he was playing, it was like a bad high school actor playing the role of the erudite,

accomplished Harvard guy. And how many times does he mention Harvard? He's like in the bad version of Clue. Yes, yes. Bennett probably played in it was a harvard production of some sort of like movie and he played the villain yes yeah and probably high school because you know you know maybe not a harvard production because it wasn't a theater major in harvard it was more no in fact a of people from... I know people who went to schools like that,

Ivy League schools. My brother went to Princeton, and he hates saying where he went to school. People ask him, and it used to drive my parents nuts, because they really worked hard to send him there to be able to afford it. But they would say,

somebody would say, oh, where'd you go to college? You'd always go in New Jersey. And then they'd be like, where? And he's like, like Southern, Southern New Jersey, closer to. And my parents would be like, he went to Princeton. He doesn't want to say. But the fact that he just kept trotting it out, like that credit of his was like oh god and then on top of it not backing it up intellectually it was like that's like the worst of both worlds yeah well fascinating guy

i'm glad we see eye to eye we'll see him on paradise i bet right don't you think for sure oh god yeah yeah both know him then in fact yeah yeah oh those guys are oh and they're gonna like the same girl and it's going to play out. I can see it already. Totally. Because the producers are geniuses and they will set it up. Yes.

Yeah. And what we know about Bennett though is like Bennett, Bennett, more even more the producers will decide to like the girl Noah likes. Yes. I hope happens.

I hope happens. I hope happens because we already know Noah's going to win that fight. Yeah, yeah. Well, he definitely outsmarted him during that two-on-one when he knew. As soon as Bennett did his weird shtick with the presence and you're lacking in three out of the four emotion, whatever that was. As soon as that happened, I remember thinking, my brother and I said like, oh, just, just show Tayshia that. I mean, and he did.

That's basically what happened. Tayshia was like, what are, I think, didn't she see the presence? And she was like. It's unclear whether she opened it up. Like it was a cliffhanger episode. And then in the next week it opened up. Oh, they never really. That's true.

And Ben was like, I gave a gift to Noah. And it even sounded almost like an edited, like it sounded Frankenbit to be even on it, like how about that? Yeah. So now hometowns. Now we have Ivan, Brendan, Ben, and Zach. I got to say, I felt bad for these guys relative to like just the

coronavirus of it all i i i go ahead i disagree i think there was something about this the way this was set up and because of the limitations that made it so much more um accessible that made it so much more accessible as a viewer. I love what came. I think they did the best with what they could. I'm just from personal experience, I'll never forget that flight into Milwaukee, Wisconsin on Andy's hometown and the surreal feeling that I was bringing The Bachelor show home

and I was bringing Andy to my home and I tried so hard to make that surreal experience real and i really liked andy and i just remember being on that plane and i was sick i was so sick but i the adrenaline took over my body and it was just it was a feeling i'll never forget it was a memory i'll never forget and they definitely did the best with what they could but to bring them to their hometown it was such a powerful day and a day i'll never forget that like i i feel like they got cheated of that moment nick let me just play uh just think about what you said i feel like when they went,

isn't the most important part of the hometown, like, yeah, all that other fun stuff is like showing off your town and where you went to school. That's gotta be fun and cool. And that's, I love when that happens in life, you know, when you can take somebody you really like back to your hometown.

But isn't like the most important part, you know, if that idiom home is where the heart is, is to be believed. Isn't it where your family is and like, you know, the people in your life. So like, I feel like this episode was so distilled in that sense. Like it was just, there was something very pure about it. They were just meeting. They were all in the same environment. There was no, there was no getting distracted by, you know, somebody having like a nice house or funny friends or whatever it is.

It was just like, I'm going to get to know this person better through their family through the people that are closest to them there's something really nice about that i thought yeah i i thought like it was a very it was a great hometown in the we got some really good emotional moments from from all the guys uh oh yeah you know brandon ivan's family i think were my two favorites uh i liked zack's a lot too i liked uh i liked the dad how sweet he was with the he i love that he was like look i'm from a small town and this is weird to me i like when they address how strange the whole thing is i know i really i appreciate that too because you know people kind of forget that the parents

just have the family members have no idea what's going on right and you see all these different you know but they've been fans of the show often so or they don't watch it. And they're so blinded, right? They're so blinded what's going on. They said goodbye to their son or daughter, and then six weeks later they're meeting this quasi-famous person, and then their son or daughter is just like, I love them. And they're like, what? Yeah, it must be so weird.

Some of the parents are just like, blink if this is a show thing. Or, you know, like. Oh, my God. Yeah. They don't really know. They're so confused. The parents are. Well, I would.

Yeah. I would have a hard. I'm trying to imagine my parents in that situation. And my mom is an actress. And so, I can see her kind of like and sometimes she's met you know exes of mine where she's been like excited because of who they were you know because they're whatever they're and um i could see her being a little bit like playing up and the cameras are on and i know she would play that a little bit and my dad is the opposite my

dad is like a he's a professor and he's very doesn't care about that stuff oh he would be so freaked out i can't imagine how weird that must be that all of a sudden and and and the weirdest part being like he said that their their kid is is saying i think i have real feelings for that i think i might marry this person that i've known for a little while like what um crazy but yeah that that is but i thought to that end i thought all the the family was all really sincere and level-headed about the experience right uh yeah i really liked ivan's dad's conversation with taisha how he right off the bat was just trying to relate to her in a very real way. He has such a limited amount of time.

He was like, have you been married before? I have too. It didn't work out. Now I have. Yes. It was just like, oh. He was very impressive. Usually you don't see that often with the parent trying to connect with the lead.

It's always like the parent trying to connect with their son or daughter. But to have Ivan's dad try to have that moment and bonding experience with Tayshia, I thought was really great. And I don't think we get to see that that often huh yeah I um I that's well said yeah I like that with um I noticed I wrote down when Zach's dad said thanks for there was something very genuine and powerful about him saying thanks for spending the time with me like Like, thank you. That says a lot about them. I noticed that Brendan does that a lot.

Like, he checks in with her. He seems appreciative of her time, too. I like that a lot. He seemed really earnest. You know, we've heard of Zach's story, right, and the struggles he's had. And so I think maybe that it read a little more sincere. I mean, her dad was like, thank you for making him happy i can see him being happy clearly zach is someone who's you know i'm sure at times his family was worried about zach's happiness um it i got that impression and with the

mom too uh she seemed that was very powerful that they seemed like they had been through a lot um and they and it was just nice to see him like they had been through a lot. And they, and it was just nice to see him smile, that he was smiling a lot. He was, I don't know if you saw this, but I think it was afterwards. And I actually felt really bad for him. He was sweating. I don't know why I'm so hung up on the sweat on some of these guys, but there was, he was sweating so profusely that it was, it was dripping from his chin as they were. Did you notice this, Chris?

It was like 115 degrees, literally, outside. I was actually like, finally, they're showing somebody sweating because it was so hot there. It's like, oh, it's real. Your boy, Brendan, he refuses to show his neck or chest line at all. Even when he had the button up shirt, it was buttoned all the way up. I actually,

very fashionable guy. He keeps, he's like, he's just going to all, all turtleneck all the time. And it was like, we don't know this because they're not saying this, but like it was the,

it was the middle of summer in Palm Springs. Oh my God. Yeah. I noticed that a lot with, he doesn't sweat that much though brendan no zach sweats a lot well he throws it down yeah he did today he did on the oh that day how sweet was that date with the niece yeah how great was he with his niece the way he kissed her on the cheek and like he seemed like he and they had a handshake oh my god forget i i was so moved by

him and and his what he's oh'm going to cry just talking about it. What he said about his dad, how his dad passed away and his brother's become like a father figure. I love that guy. I think he is. Brendan's relationship with his brother and Ivan's relationship with his brother were my two favorite parts of the whole time.

Yes, Ivan's brother was, me too, me too. That was so moving to see the two, the surprise. Gabriel is his name, I think. Yeah, Gabriel. Gabriel, and what, and such a smart, I mean, like he had this, such an intelligence about him. Some of his choice of words I thought were so cool, the way he said certain things.

He was like, I think I wrote some down, the way he spoke. Oh, his righteous endeavor. He refers to talking to Taysha as Ivan's righteous endeavor. Oh, so cool. Really impressive guy. I like that family so much. And I love the mom was so like sweet and like Filipino. And I like that they cook together.

I thought that was great too if all the hometowns ivan i thought hit the home run with the daytime portion of like yeah can i just cook with her you know like i like i know i know there's something really because that's it's true and he says this in the in the on the day like that's what they would be doing that's such a good example of um and this is why i like those this setup uh the stripped down version of the hometowns is because yeah you get to do something you don't have to like overthink it i think zach sort of overthought it with the whole cab uh device but um but you don't have to overthink it you just it just be the two of them cooking together and that is more revealing about what

i think what a relationship is going to be like anyway yeah i mean to that end you'll probably cook and not hail cabs as part of the relationship but like i mean it's tough you know it's tough what are you supposed to do what are you supposed what are you supposed to do um so you're are you into are you as into brendan as i he is as as a as a character not considering the relationships my he's my he's been my favorite from the start i liked um me too i liked him and ivan uh like the first episode in claire's season i what i liked about uh brendan is that here he's like because you know he's he's he's an incredibly good looking guy, but like he, you know,

like at first glance, because bachelor is very like, they like, they're kind of very traditional, attractive people kind of like, you know, your Bennett faces and you're pretty blonde, but there's,

you know, so many different types of attractive people, but like, you almost have to look twice at Brendan toan to realize how good looking he is right and then and then he's the he's his job is a roofer i don't think people realize how hard of a job that is like that's funny you're you're you're doing the wisconsin version of a roofer that's a roofer roofer yeah roofer no roofer roofer rofer. Yeah. How do you say R-O-O-F? R-O-O-F-F. R-O-O-F-I-N-G.

F-E-R. F-E-R. I'm not a big Roofer. How would you just say R-O-O-F? Ruff. Ruff. Isn't that funny? Yeah.

Ruff. Sorry, that is the Wisconsin in me. But it's a hard job. I love that. It's such a hard job. It's like, it takes a special person to do that. But to me, that's natural. Like, that's who he is.

And I loved seeing him with his niece because he did come out. He was a little bit bigger. And the dancing was amazing. Dancing around. And it was amazing. But I love, he does this really, this thing that is so sweet, I think, when he addresses the awkwardness of the situation, he did it when they, you know, every time, I forget who the first one to run up on, the first contestant to run up on another one during the hometowns and like spin around. You know, but now they do that every time. Like, I feel like that was done once.

Somebody jumped up on somebody and now they kind of have to do that. It's sort of wrote um but when he jumped up on or she jumped up on him and there he goes oh should i spin you around now and they like laughed about it there was something so sweet about or like when when he sees her again for the second part of the date he's like he's like ah the second part he called it like the second thanks for showing up for the second part you look you look beautiful and there's a sweetness about it yeah i love it he seems kind to consider it i i to answer you here's what i think i mean if we're gonna like maybe start talking about what we think's gonna happen uh-huh i think she's gonna end up with zach i think and i and and i

apologize to in advance to taisha because i because as someone who was the Batch, there was nothing more infuriating than an audience member saying who do you think I should end up with? But fuck it. This is what this show is about. I think Brendan is her best match. I think she's going to pick Zach. And I think both great people, Tayshia and Zach, my guess is in the long run it's not going to work out because I think

Zach's going to keep it a little too real than Tayshia wants it to be. Meaning what? In what sense? There's a rawness of Zach, obviously. I think he's a straight shooter. Yeah. And I think, you know, Tayshia, Orange County, she likes how things look, which is fine, too. orange county she likes how things look which is fine too i just sometimes you you know not everyone wants to you know i never don't keep wanting to keep it real and being

disingenuous i'm not saying or parallel like some people just need to keep it real all the time and sometimes that can be a little annoying and frustrating for people in your circle if the person you're dating is constantly keeping it real i'm more of the keep it real guy but i just don't see that necessarily in the long term working out for our zach and tasia well that's just my guess it's just a guess i i i don't know a friend of mine um who i texted about the show um she had said that zach she thought zach c was gonna win and um i i was convinced like a week or two ago that it was 100% going to be Brendan, just based purely on how much they seemed to like each other.

It was just something as simple as they enjoyed their time with one another. They got kind of bashful around each other. There was something so authentic. When they see each other at those hometowns, I really feel like they missed each other, you know? And he is just so authentic and sincere. But this is the first time after that Zach hometown, it's the first time I thought, I think you both might be right,

that she might pick Zach. It surprises me just because I, Zach seems like he tries a little harder than Brendan does. But she also seems most physically attracted to Zach. Maybe that's it. And it could be, and look, that's really important in the beginning. So she should be described. I'm not laying down in a fountain with anybody else.

Yeah. Yeah. I just think Zach is a really dynamic personality right he has a chemistry though they have a chemistry but also I can tell you like Zach just thrives in that atmosphere more than Brendan right and that's not a

that's not a a compliment or a criticism to either of them Zach's clearly been through a lot like he just he thrives in stressful situations and I'm not saying Brendan's crippling but like Brendan's lot like he just he thrives in stressful situations and i'm not saying brendan's in crippling but like brendan's it's like he's more of a slow he's more of the turtle you know a little bit gradual he doesn't need to be heard all the time you know and uh i

think that just allows someone like zach to shine a little brighter in that world to be a little bit more dynamic that's well said that person's easier to get to know right like you know in that atmosphere you you kind of get to know people who want who are better at talking about themselves right and that's just how that environment that's that's that's kind of a that's a a negative that environment is that you feel like you're connecting with people you might not otherwise connect with and and you're not connecting with people you could have in a more normal setting i just i i wonder if that means if that calls into question his sincerity then i mean uh zacks if he's if what you're saying i mean to me there are moments where he feels like he's he's there was there was one moment that felt very

telling like he would didn't know what to say. He didn't have anything to say. And she had asked him something. It was on, they were on a one-on-one and, and he, and she said what, what she kind of called him out on it. And he, he said, no, no. It's just like, you take my breath away. You like, it's like this kind of like Ryan Gosling-y act that he does where he's like, he's like, no, darling, you like take it's like this kind of like ryan goslingy act that he does where he's like he's like no darling you like it just struck me as insincere i might be totally off base and i

i i think i don't i think they're both sincere i think that it is different and i think yeah in that environment it's it's what i think you're saying is like you know, when someone knows what to say, that happens in Bachelor World all the time. Knowing what to say doesn't make you insincere. But sometimes, sometimes people who know what to say can be insincere, right? I don't know if I'm saying that right, but like. Of course, yeah. You can love someone and still know what to say, you know. Yeah, but the point is like, I don't think he did know what to say he had a moment where and so rather than just admitting that

he kind of made it about how she took his breath away and he wasn't able to speak i don't know there was something about that you believe that his breathing was still fine in that moment yes i don't i think he had yeah that's fair it didn't it didn't seem like he was any distress. But he also, when he, how do you feel about this? During the lie detector thing, first of all, don't you need like an expert to really administer a lie detector? Doesn't there have to be somebody who's really reading it properly? I assume, and I'm assuming that person was in the room. No offense to Jojo.

No, I assume there was someone behind the scenes, but yes. Yeah. Well, but he says he cheated on a girl, and that was like, obviously, that distressed Tayshia, and that was something that she questioned later. And he said, oh, yeah, it was somebody later. Do you remember this? Where he says, oh, in sixth grade.

Yeah, well, we had Raven from my season come on, and I didn't think about this but she pointed out and i ended up agreeing with her that if you're in the middle of a lie detector testing or asked if you're cheated if there's you you provide context you don't just say yes and leave it in the air right right and then he had hours to think about to think about it that felt a little bit like oh that this is what I mean about Zach. And like, I hate saying this because he seems like a nice guy. And his family was very earnest.

And I know he's been through a lot. But something like that strikes me. I just get a little bit concerned about a moment like that. That struck me as, and I might be totally wrong i it just it just struck me a little bit i got my my sensors went up and yeah you have hours to think about it how am i going to get out of this because he was honest in the moment he he responded honestly but if you really if if you really cheated on somebody and and admitted that in a lie detector would you consider something that you do in sixth grade i don't think i mean he laughed about it later and rightly so but i don't i would like

how did that register how did that register you think he was thinking that that oh this thing i did in sixth grade i call bullshit here's how i cheated on somebody here's how i see it could register is that because every time we date someone that's one of the questions that come up have you ever cheated on someone it's like an early question it gets asked and that could be his story he's told to everyone and so that's why he's like yeah I have but it was in third grade

maybe but I'm just saying if I'm you know but I know I think you're right it's it's fair to question I think Raven's right too I think Raven that's a good point that she made is that um yeah you'd provide context i think you'd at least be like well it was in sixth grade yeah like right away you don't wait yes yeah unless i don't know i don't know how much of that is orchestrated unless they told them to or it but that to me that would be a little concerning. And his hands, there's something self-conscious about the way he moves his hands, the way he hugs her. There's something very deliberate about his hand motions.

I don't know. I think part of this, too, is just I'm such a fan of Brendan's that I just so badly want that love to be realized. I just so badly want that love to be realized. If Brendan ends up with Tayshia, I would think they have a better chance of working out than if she ends up with Zach. That's just a guess. You know what I'm saying? I agree.

It could be totally wrong. But I, yeah. I agree. I just feel like there's a better fit there. But I came around on Zach a lot more after seeing his um his family his family just seems so beatrice the mom's name i love that name uh beatrice seemed they seem like they all in two great names great names but um they seem like they've been through a lot and they all really really cared about each other they just seem like good people um it was nice you

don't usually there's one on one of the hometowns there's some like people. It was nice. You don't, usually there's one on one of the hometowns, there's some like, you know, I'm thinking of, I don't want to say, I don't know what it's going to mean,

but, you know, like there's like a, you know, like Peter's family was a little bit like, huh, this is a different

group of people, but every one of these families seemed really kind and seemed like they loved their kid. Yeah, no one, it didn't seem like anyone was there for their TV moment. Right. That's what it is.

They had an agenda. That's what it is. And maybe that's just a product of, you know, the stripped down version. And the fact that like this is a weird time for everybody and like not getting to see so many people are, you know, starved for family members and not able to see one another. So like there was you could feel that sense of joy of everyone being together and just the simplicity of them being there. Oh, my God. oh my God, when Ivan saw his brother and both brothers, the Brendan brother thing, for someone who's really close with their brothers,

like that really, that struck me. That was really nice to see. Totally. What do you, so I know you kind of alluded to it, but are you still going to hitch your wagon to Brendan, so to speak, or? I'm torn now. I'm torn now now and i didn't think i would be i was a hundred percent on on board with brendan i to the point where i thought oh my god she may have been she may be just kind of like playing it up a little bit with these other guys because

of what happened with claire i i started thinking maybe the producers were like, look, this can't happen again. Because the connection she had with Brendan just felt so, it felt like night and day from the other ones. It just felt so real. And when they'd see each other, and when she saw him with the, how could you not love Brendan

after seeing him with the niece? How sweet, with the handshake. I mean, he just seems like such a good guy. And most importantly, he seems like he really just likes her. It's so crazy to see that on the show. I know it shouldn't be, but I so rarely see that, like a real connection. Like, oh, man, that's palpable. Like, they've got to be together.

Yeah. But now, Zach, I'm seeing a little bit more of her attraction to Zach. I think the most obvious chemistry that's shown on the show is between Zach and Tayshia. But I think part of, like you said, it's just a personality. There's a slower pace. And I get Brandon's reluctance like because he was married you know like there's an there's a thoughtfulness of like he's taking it very serious like he tears up he's like this is very real for me it's that classic case of like i'm here i don't know why i showed up what i need experience oh shit i like this girl oh shit I think she likes

me back holy shit we're getting to the end and like can I really do this like but I want to want to do it but I still need to believe in myself it reads as so sincere to me and and if I were Tasha I would it would be such a vote of confidence in this person's authenticity it would be like i mean anybody who doesn't question that whether or not they're ready to get married after a few weeks i mean come on you know maybe it's it's a little bit easier for her to to to you know throw herself into because she's been on the show a bunch and she kind of like i don't know maybe she's it's just you know this is the first time this guy is doing it so it's um but it reads as so authentically like i don't it just seems

quick but i really really like this person and i just hope um i don't know i'm rooting for i hope she picks him i hope she picks him but yeah you You don't think, you think Zach? I have to guess. I'm guessing Zach. I don't know. I'm spoiler free, but I'm interviewing the runner up next week. So I'm also deciding who would I want to interview? I'd be happy to interview both of them.

We're also just kind of assuming it's not Ivan, right? I guess we're just assuming it's not Ivan. I honestly was shocked at Ivan I thought Ivan was going home uh before bed I was that surprised me yeah I it seems like Ivan really likes Tayshia and and I think Tayshia respects Ivan more than she likes Ivan I think so too I think you know what troubled me about Ivan is when they were talking about, he said something about how great it would be if they got together because of just what's gone on, just culturally, how it would look, which is, of course it would be. But he said it like it would, he talked about them like they were characters on a show. Does that make sense? No, you're saying, like he was too aware of the optics

rather than being, you know, being consumed in the relationship. Yeah, I just think like he's not, he just seems a little bit, which I get. I mean, you're on TV. It must be a really uncomfortable thing to do. He just seems a little bit more uncomfortable. Whereas Brendan's moments of like,

where he gets a little shy or giggly is, it comes in because he's just so connected to it. It comes out of these very natural moments of connection with tasia you know as opposed to like struggling for things i never feel him like struggling for things to say or or do or he just seems like he's comfortable with her i don't know how else to say it he just seems like he's really present with her whereas like ivan feels like yeah it's it's it's not as natural it's just no i i've kind of felt that way about ivan is that i've always liked him impressive and i think he he's caught

up in the show more than brandon is yeah like the show's affecting his mindset more than brandon for sure for sure and maybe that's just like maybe that's a lot more natural than i'm giving it him credit for maybe that's just who really knows and there's no fault to either i mean that that it affects all all the people in there differently it was interesting to see how ivan lit up i mean like i think the difference between you know when he was on claire's when claire was the bachelorette he was um he was so clearly excited that taisha had shown up i mean they all kind of were but um i think ivan particularly was like oh man now it's now this is somebody i could really get into game changer game yeah it seemed

like they all had that very similar reaction and then they they had claire fatigue so much by then it was just like yeah yeah yeah but it's also next they're like next time lead with this you know like i know i know um but they atatia also said um something like i can always tell like how she feels about their connection about the connections when she struggles with what to say about them. And she's, and they'll say things that don't really make all that much sense. She'll say things like,

Ivan lets me be me, you know, and like Ivan, which is like, I mean, who, you should always be, anyone should let you be you.

Like, that's not, that's not that rare a thing. Whereas, whereas with Brandon, it's just like, yeah, that's not that rare a thing whereas whereas with he's not preventing you from being you wow that's uh you should marry him um but whereas like with brendan i mean not to labor the point it's just she'll say things like i just missed him you know and um he's i when you really like somebody it's it's um it's almost like you don't have to say much about them.

The simple things speak volumes. No, you're very right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't personally, I've never really seen a very strong connection between Ivan and Tayshia. No, I think you're right. I think she respects him and, you know, she's, and he's an impressive person and seems like he comes from a really nice family and all that.

But, yeah, there's no substitute for just like a natural connection for that liking to be around somebody. I think it's as simple as that. She likes to be around Brendan and she seems to like to be around Zach too. Totally. Well. Oh, man. I'm excited.

We'll find out next week back to back uh justin i can't it is it's another back to back yeah oh great uh and i can't thank you enough for for doing this it's been a fun week talking with you if you haven't had a chance to listen to justin's ass nick make sure to check that out he gives incredible relationship advice it was really fun fun to do that with Justin. Next week, Sarah Silverman helps us break down the last two episodes of The Bachelorette.

So it's a lot of... And then we'll have The Runner Up next Wednesday. So a lot of Bachelor coming at you to round out this year. Can't wait. Can't thank you enough, Justin. It's been a ton of fun. So fun. Thanks, Chrissy. Thanks for thank you enough, Justin. It's been a ton of fun. Thanks for... So fun. Thanks, Chrissy.

Thanks for making the hat trick complete. Oh, yeah. Hey, by the way, why don't you call it the Vial Files? Why don't you spell files like Vial? I probably would have been smart. I just kind of threw out a name. The Files. No, Nick, this is so fun. you know i love talking about this stuff and uh

this is a blast to do with you happy holidays if i don't talk to you merry christmas all that fun stuff happy likewise and uh hope to connect soon okay thanks guys all right safe travels thank you bye as always thanks for listening guys we appreciate Justin taking the time make sure to tune in next week big week

next week we have obviously the Ask Nick episodes Sarah Silverman helps us break down the last two episodes of The Bachelorette

and whoever the runner up is will be on the show on Wednesday to essentially have the

there's no AFR so we're having our AFR with whoever the runner up is so thanks for listening we appreciate you subscribe rate us five stars all the best we will see you on Monday