The Viall Files - E214 The Bachelorette Recap With Cazzie David

Episode Date: December 23, 2020

Tonight on the FINALE recap of The Bachelorette we are joined by the one and only Cazzie David. Cazzie claims The Bachelorette is the only thing she knows how to talk about now from being in quarantine and we could not be happier about that. Nick and Cazzie breakdown 2 nights of The Bachelorette and chat about all the angles and scenarios, especially the weird ones. Cazzie also has a new book out called “No One Asked For This: Essays” which is “humor not in memes guys” so make sure to check it out at https://www.hmhbooks.com/shop/books/No-One-Asked-for-This/9780358181781 “Why can’t they share a room, this isn’t the f-ing Crown.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rum Haven: http://www.discover.rumhaven.com for the latest tips, recipes, and giveaways. Butcherbox: http://butcherbox.com/VIALL for 2 pounds of salmon free in your first box  FightCamp: http://www.joinfightcamp.com/FILES to get free shipping and a gift valued at $109 with your purchase  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @cazziedavid See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's paradise out there, baby. That's right. It doesn't matter if you're Chrissy and it's 10 degrees in Montana. Because you know what? Chrissy's got Rum Haven. All the Rum Haven. All the Rum Haven you can need to make that paradise experience right inside your home. I know when I like to have a tropical drink, I go right to my Rum Haven because it's good,

it's delicious, and it makes me feel like I'm in paradise. Rum Haven is crafted with real coconut water and no artificial preservatives or flavorings for a little island escape. Sip into paradise and visit discover.rumhaven.com for the latest giveaways, recipes, and seasonal tips. what's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files bachelor finale recap i'm your host nick and joined by chrissy chrissy how are you i am great how are you nicholas you know what i am thrilled you know why because our guest today is my dear friend and wonderful funny person kazzy david now some of you are kind of like what the fuck happened to Sarah Silverman great question great question um listen uh how do we how do we how do I don't know we we got ghosted it's fine um kind of yeah sort of basically like you said it's like prom yeah it's like here

like I only feel like I have to kind of explain it because it's like you said it's like prom yeah it's like here like i only feel like i have to kind of explain it because it's like you remember when you guys were like in high school and like it would be like it would be like you were like hey they're like the coolest kid girl i guess in a you know if we're you know we talk i like to use analogies on this show if you guys yeah notice so you're like the coolest girl in school you're just like hey i would be i'm gonna shoot my shot be like hey i'd go to high school dance with you you know they're they're not gonna say yes but then all of a sudden they're like no no i'll i want to go yeah totally i'll totally go also i want to go to prom with you what you you want to go to prom with me are you sure because prom's kind of a big deal

i like how about i feel like i really want to go to prom too and i i feel like you're gonna someone else something else better than come a long way you're not gonna go to prom with me so like what what do we do no i want to go to prom with you like great i want to go tell my friends my friends are you guys listeners i tell all my friends and then they were like nah so like that movie with drew barrymore when the like she's like waiting and then like the limo comes up and then they like throw something at her an egg at her face yeah am i true very more in this equation you're true very more in this equation but you know what the good news is

doesn't matter because turns out even better prom date uh kazzy is amazing uh we we were so excited to to recap the finale with her and you know fantasy suites and uh we wish sarah nothing but the best anyways uh kazzy david who by the way has a a new book i'll talk to she doesn't she's kazzy's so humble she doesn't want to talk about her book but i'm gonna make her because it's awesome on to kazzy david oh congratulations uh taisha and zach kazzy welcome back how you doing hey there i'm good i'm happy to be back thanks for having me i appreciate you doing this uh i'm really excited to uh talk about obviously the bachelor with you because you know it's well it's the bachelorette the finale yeah well it's the only thing i know how to talk about since uh quarantine started so i'm happy to be able to use my skills

before we we talk about the bachelorette i'm going to force you to talk about your new book because it's amazing i know you you're probably sick of promoting it because everyone's talking about your book but it's awesome so congratulations on on that. Thank you, Nick. Um, and thank you to anyone who's read it. I, uh, I, there's nothing I can say to convince you to, to buy it. Um, I'm not good at telling myself. Cassie doesn't want to, uh, self promote. I'll promote for her. It's called no one asked for this. It's a book of essays. I'll sum it up real quickly uh everyone likes things that are relatable cassie is uh relatable the thing about things that people say that are relatable is they don't usually do it in unique ways like it's mostly like annoying

cliche things that people find relatable but everything that cassie cassie writes is super funny it's relatable it's in like it's thoughtoking, and it's just a fun, funny read. So check it out. There is a link in our description of this episode to directly buy Kazzy's book. Give it to a friend. Read it for yourself. It's the best book I read all year. Thank you, Nick.

It's humor not in memes, you guys. There you go. That's my contribution i will say i uh i do wish after reading this book that you did tweet i know that you i'm sure you'll see like something i wrote in there on twitter in the coming weeks because that's how the internet works and people love to people love to take things and uh pass them off as their own not saying that i'm like people are gonna steal from me but it happens to everyone who that's that's anything out into the ether i know i text this to you but you have literally helped my mental health because one of your things were about um responding to trolls on the internet and how no matter how rational your response might be it's insane to respond and there has been at least 10 or 15 times that i've thought

of responding to a troll and and thought of your tweet and i didn't respond and i felt immediately better yeah you can't respond to those people that's insane no yeah no it's an insane thing to do no it's totally insane and i thank you for that insane. No. Yeah, no, it's an insane thing to do. No, it's totally insane. And I thank you for that. So anyways, check out Kazzy's book. It's amazing. So that's all I'm going to say about that. And I'll put something in my Instagram stories again

for a swipe up for you guys to check it out. So with that said, whatever, it's a great book. Yeah, okay. Okay. Congratulations, Tayshia and book. Yeah, okay. Okay. Congratulations, Tayshia and Zach. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Were you surprised?

Chrissy, were you not rooting for Zach, or did you have a pick, Chrissy? I really wanted it to work with Ivan, but it's fine with Zach. I don't know. I found it so boring. Ivan was very surface level about his feelings for taisha like even when he was like i'm in love with you he was like i'm in love with

you right now it was something like that i just like i would have if i was taisha i've been like i'm not feeling this from you like deep down i actually got that more from tasha about ivan than i got for ivan about about tasha i mean tasha definitely wasn't feeling it as well i think yeah yeah uh ivan super charming charismatic guy he's gonna do great things in life but i never i never was too surprised but um yeah I mean you know I guess we'll we'll work backwards that way but this the Monday's episode kicks off obviously with Fantasy Suites uh Ivan's got the first one and I don't know if this is the new norm I haven't asked the producers but it's all of a sudden now customary that these guys are going to be living in the same house now during fantasy sweet weeks.

And that's like something they introduced with Peter season. And it seemed to be like the reason they did that because like Madison, she, you know, had never had sex or was saving herself. And you know, she, that it seemed like they wanted,

uh, Madison to be constantly thinking about the possibility that peter was going to be having sex with the other women and it seems like maybe this is the new norm because there there wasn't really a reason why they did this right because like they could have like every other season they're always in the same compound right like when i was on andy's season or caitlin's season like you know guys were just in a house next to me but we had no contact we didn't see them at all there was no conversations you know and why wouldn't they do that it's like obviously that's going to create more drama like it's

stupid that they weren't doing it the whole time i i guess it works every time in the past they used to be like hey listen we've we've fucked with you long enough uh now we want to see if you can focus on the relationship was kind of what they would say to us which made for one night you can focus on the relationship for nobody but no you really actually you know what would happen is like up until hometowns that's what's different about this because you know hometowns happened on happened at the La Quinta. But before, like once hometown started, you didn't see anyone, right? You'd only see guys or girls at rose ceremonies.

So you'd go visit your family and you wouldn't see the other. You'd have no idea what's going on. And then you'd go to the hometown rose ceremony and you'd get sent home. And then fantasy suites and you wouldn't see anyone. And you'd have no idea what happened, right? And then rose ceremony. And now it's just like nonstop. What I am curious about and I don't have an answer to

is did these guys actually live in like a communal room or did they only do that for like the updates, the chats or the date cards? That's what I'm curious about. It seemed like a suite. Like maybe there's some connecting rooms and then other people are in some other rooms. Yeah.

If they did that, that's fucked up. That's just a new level of culture. Oh, like if they were all connected, that was fucked up? Like if the rooms were off of the big hub room? Because if you... Yeah, it'd be one thing to be like, all right, you guys have your room

and for the eight hours a day, you don't have to deal with these guys. But for these half hour, one thing to be like all right you guys have your room and for the eight hours a day what you're you don't have to deal with these guys but like you know for these half hour you're gonna put you in the same room and have the guys walk in you're gonna have to talk about what's going on this week that sucks but like actually just sitting there with like the guy yeah i think they had their own rooms because like they showed that that same place is the with the big couch is where they all met when there was even 16 people in there. So that was why is it so bad for them to share rooms like this isn't the fucking crown. They can share rooms.

It's just guys in a room. It's just a little torturous because like, you know, because you're all dating the same person. know because you're all dating the same person i'll like i'll never forget the nights of like the nights of the fantasy suite week were like they normally have a day off right like usually what happens it's not the next day he's coming in right the after the night you like you ice you get you do all these interviews about your day it's's just like, this is what happened. I had a great time. I had a bad time, whatever. And then like the next day, there's another date.

And so I knew the nights, right? I knew the nights that like the other guys were on the dates. And so like, I'm sitting there just thinking, I couldn't, like it was, I was up all night being like, well, they're probably definitely hooking up. And that sucks. Cause this was literally someone I was up all night being like, well, they're probably definitely hooking up. And that sucks because this was literally someone I was like, I think I want to end up with this person. And it sucked.

I mean, how would you handle that? I can't even handle like a like on Instagram. So I really can't imagine what you guys go through. Yeah, I would flip out like if you're dating someone and they like like a person you don't know's instagram pic or vice versa yeah yeah yeah it would just be like what um but i feel like yeah i feel like that's part of that's the name of the game it's like i'm also a mental struggle and like that's part of it you like learn a lot about your capabilities in relationships but it's just like a not it's not a normal situation so it's not like you need those

skills for the real world no i guess you can apply the skills that your girlfriend's dating someone else when you're in the real world dating someone yeah like you don't usually need cuckolding skills like in the real world unless you're into that sort of thing. But on this show, you kind of do. Let me tell you about what I had for dinner. I had a delicious New York strip steak that I grilled on the grill. And I had sauteed Brussels sprouts with olive oil, a little butter, and some salt. And it was amazing.

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slash files it makes me want to be like yeah are you ready to go to fight camp meet me at the camp fight camp yeah um yeah i mean like ivan has his what do you think of ivan's ice bath date i mean they're like obviously i feel bad they're at La Quinta there's only so many dates they can come up with but I'm sure they could have come up with something better than the ice bath date I feel like a couple times this season they've I think they're really pulling from old dates they kind of stole a date that they used on my season in finland because it was like in finland like it was a thing you know usually what they do is they'll take bits and pieces from where they are like traditions and things like that in finland it was like customer in the winter time

to take these ice baths and then go into a sauna and vanessa and i did that and funny paulie the guy who helped chris commentate it was like he would do he was doing that the whole week long i i'll never forget that but like that i feel like they got that idea i don't know if there's an like these world records they've been breaking over the years of like longest kisses i don't who i'm more curious but who has that record honestly so stupid like i could just do one right now like world record for like holding an aquaphor in the air for 20 minutes like it just means nothing yeah but i do feel like they did they love to just strip them down and like make them be freezing like i remember they did that date i don't remember

whose season it was i think it was hannah's season where they jumped out of the plane and naked and into the water yeah it's always some sort of metaphor and then they'll turn it into some like meaningless metaphor for love or how this this really absurd yeah but i feel like ivan the most important thing from this date that we should talk about besides like that he got kind of screwed with the ice bath date was the fact that he like got this van for their everyone's been talking everyone's been talking i loved it i mean what are your what are your thoughts yeah yeah what i think the energy of the van was bad i think they had a really bad time i think obviously there was some talk about religion that we didn't get to see right yeah i'm a i'm a little

yeah i'm surprised frustrated about that because yeah when i was when i was watching it and then they break up i was like when the fuck did they talk about religion you know i was like i was like did i miss it somewhere it was obviously in the middle of the night but you would think that'd be something like a producer would ask in an interview or something exactly that's what i don't get right because i was like did i miss it and then my first thought was like you said oh it happened in the fantasy suite there's no cameras but then i thought to myself well this is why this feels like kind of and it's fine if she just didn't like ivan as much right we all thought that right so i thought it was kind of weird that she brought up religion because to your point, that means Tayshia or Ivan and the whole next day, like after the fantasy suite and they sit there and they have a whole day of like, well, what do you think of the ice bath day?

Like, what would you think of your conversations? What happened at night? What did you guys talk about? Et cetera, et cetera. And at no time that they're like, well, there's this one thing that happened where we seem to like, you know, hit a road bump and we couldn't like come to resolution about religion and have her walking and have the voiceover. Yeah. There was no conversation about it. Right. It was kind of, it was a bizarre move that I haven't seen them do. No, I know. And I guess I was bummed because like they you kind of you've had these heavy conversations this season like why don't we just talk about your differences i they didn't like was

he an atheist like what was the situation exactly that's it totally great is he muslim is he atheist is he a catholic yeah scientologist you know like it anything. I know, and I want to know why, right? I'm really curious. I want to find out from Ivan, like, what was the difference? I feel like if enough people are curious about it and it continues to live, it'll be something that he has to come forward and discuss. Do you have any guesses? Well, the way Tayshia was talking about it,

she was like, religion's a really important thing for me and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Ivan, so at first I was like, maybe he just doesn't believe in God, but it felt more serious than that. It felt like maybe he's up to some weird shit. That'd be fun and dramatic, but I almost feel like that it was probably really nothing

and that Tayshia made it an excuse made it an excuse she was using it as an excuse she was using it an excuse yeah and we'll talk about this more but like taisha has seen like taisha has made a lot of guys apologize for things that don't feel like you would normally have to apologize this whole season like like when ben was like hey i'm sorry i took like four days to say i love you instead of three they put ben this narrative about ben me putting his walls up too much it's nuts the guy stripped naked like episode three to show you his walls were down like what do you want from this person no i was no i i couldn't agree more i couldn't it was appalling yeah he was the most vulnerable person in the cast uh yeah he talked he admitted to like attempting suicide

as early as two years ago or a year and a half ago uh i was this guy has his walls up like who are the people that i know yeah i don't know i mean yeah i i was cut when i remember jumping ahead but when so like when when tuesday's episode opens like ben comes back i was i didn't get what taisha was like mad at him the whole time he was like hey listen i love you i'm sorry and his his excuse was totally valid like listen i've never felt this way about anyone it's a little scary i've known you for a couple weeks this is crazy not only that everyone else got to say i love you the next episode no one was saying i love you after hometowns yeah i didn't say i love you after hometowns zach didn't it's nuts i mean like and she just got

weirdly mad at him like and he's just apologizing and i'm just like what what is this going on it was fucked up also the fact that like everyone else who she was close to like got to talk to her before the rose ceremony like she would pull them aside before she didn't give them the rose to be like listen this isn't working out and she didn't give them the rose to be like, listen, this isn't working out. And she didn't do that for Ben. And that would have been a situation where he's like, Oh my God,

I was going to tell you it. Like if she had pulled him over aside and been like, let's talk about this. Like, I'm going to send you home because I feel this, this, and this, he would have been like,

wait, no, I love you. Don't send me home because of that. What's the problem? She's like, well, you haven't like,

I just need something from you. And he's like, Oh, well then I love you. Don't send me home because of that. What's the problem? She's like, well, you haven't, like, I just need something from you. And he's like, oh, well, then I love you. But that's why I feel like this is a new thing that's been happening since Ari's season, where that one, I believe, was real, but they figured out maybe if you send, like, the guy home

that everyone thinks is going to win, and then you bring him back, and blah, blah, blah, and then they end up together. Like, it's almost like a producer thing now where it's like keisha couldn't talk to ben before because they were gonna always bring him back and like she just needed to i i don't understand otherwise why she wouldn't have talked to him first i don't know all people not to talk to first no i i i agree and there's a chance there's a chance that they had a conversation they didn't air it so that's possible i don't necessarily buy that there were some sort of like

machiavellian like hey listen tasha you're gonna send ben home we're gonna like you know i'm saying that that type of dis and like planning doesn't happen, especially that late. The people are serious about getting engaged. The leads are not in on that as much. If they really thought Tayshia could pick Ben, I don't think they would let that happen.

You can say that, but also there's people that they're just keeping around Laquita to send back in two days later. So sure. But the Bennett's different, right? The Bennett,

like coming back, like that's just, yeah, that's like a cliffhanger. That's drama. But if Ben was someone, and I assume because he was top two of it, ultimately that someone like,

I, people always ask, like, do they have to send, do you have to keep people around? Like it's not so much do you have to keep people around like it's not so much uh who you have to keep around it's who you don't have to send home is what i've always said and like you don't have to send home people that you're like i i really like this person i think no but i think

she no i think she genuinely would like decided to send him home yeah okay i just think there's something fishy with the like every single season now we're sending someone home in the last like three and then they're coming back yeah like if you're gonna allow them back then you didn't want to send them you know what i mean i don't know there's just something weird going on no totally i i do i do think it was weird that yeah even the storyline i mean like and it didn't even stop when when she introduced ben to her dad it was like well i don't know if he's putting his best foot forward i don't know if he has he referenced his character in terms of because it's just like all he didn't say is i love you at during hometowns and to your point in the history

of the show that's an early i love you like it usual it only usually happens during the fantasy suite weeks i mean i i don't know the stats but i bet there's a stat out there and i would be willing to bet 85 percent of all i love yous are happening during the fantasy suite it was embarrassing the way they like just discussed him in general. It was so absurd. Yeah, no, I, I, I totally agree.

Um, so if you can't tell, I am a Ben Stan. I, I did want them to end up together, even though I knew Zach was the right choice. You thought he was, you thought Zach was the right choice for Tasha or the one that she was going

to pick? I thought, I didn't really know. I thought she was going to pick i thought i didn't really know i thought she was going to pick zach but it felt kind of like hannah's season with like tyler being ben and like jed or jeb jed jed being zach like minus all the lies like that was like the right choice while you're watching it but like everyone wants her to be with Tyler. Like I want her to be with Ben. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, I'm happy for them. I think they're like a cute couple and I'm happy with the result. What do you, you have some Zach vibes, Nick.

So I've heard, um, you have, I have curly hair. Uh, what are, what are my Zach vibes? You guys have a similar look, I guess.

Okay, I guess. You guys know what to say and carry yourselves well. Sure. I will say Zach was on one in the finale in terms of knowing what to say. I know. It was wild. this guy has cult leader vibes it was just more like when he was talking to taisha's dad and he's like giving him the stern look and he's just like let me tell you a story you know i met this woman named taisha and she has his father and and what he you know it's like when he talks about like he was like he was like reading taisha's like and then you said and he like delivered the lines and and like from taisha's

dad's point of view and taisha's dad was just buying it up he's like i like this guy he's complimenting me you know yeah who wouldn't buy that he's amazing with words no he was he was really great um well we we're we're interviewing ben uh tomorrow morning and oh my god i'm excited for that back to ivan getting screwed over i actually i don't know like it's a cozy little setting i mean it really doesn't matter right i don't know like wait are we back to the airstream we're talking i was we kind of skipped over that once we got into it we went on a tangent i think the van could have been like a good situation and it was cute and cozy but i think for them in particular there was something about them going like sometimes things just like aren't good for certain people in certain moments

and that was not they did not need that van like that pushed them over the edge okay yeah maybe i mean a lot more people agree with you than they agreed with me i was i didn't get it i was like oh a van people talking about this i haven't god it's an airstream it's so much more than a van no a lot yeah people were up in arms over ivan's uh van um but they do it every year you know like you have the windmill you have like all these different things one person always gets like the worst situation and then someone gets like a mansion or a castle or it's all kind of luck yeah like raven had like this little igloo that was supposed to look at the northern stars where like, like the heat went out and,

you know, but like, it was like, Oh, this is cozy and romantic. And then Rachel had this, like for the, her fantasy suite,

like this really awesome cabin, you know, and it was like all like brand new and it's just kind of luck. I mean, I think it's just kind of a random when they have avail, because like my guess is they have the availability of whatever thing they're using i think a little different this time because they're at the la quinta so i guess they could have done it whenever uh and then it's more about who when they want the people to have

the certain dates like who's going first second or third yeah i just think zach with that painting date like that was an incredible date getting to do all that paint shit and like roll around in it and then getting like the beautiful suite with the champagne and like they have to like wake up in this van and like go sit outside on these like chairs there is a part though that that could have been a lot of taisha's call right like yeah taia has talked about obviously her religion. She talked recently that she saved herself from marriage before her first marriage. So like, she's, you know, more conservative when it comes to that stuff. So like, you know,

there are definitely conversations that leads have with producers of being like, Hey, listen, it's not going to happen. So like, help me out here. Right. Help me put me in a situation where, you know, we're set in the mood a little bit less. That definitely goes on. Yeah, because Zach's date, so like Kazzy's saying, Zach's date is definitely set up for sex. Like to be sexy time.

And what I'm saying is like- Let's roll around with each other. Let's have this big suite. Let's have the champagne. Whereas Ivan's date, you're saying, is like they knew they weren't going to do it so they basically put him in a airstream and like outside in a pop-up chair talk about bad dates Brendan's engagement ring date oh my god so bad well you tell me what you think but I probably have a

difference opinion the the most do you think it was unfair oh my god it was like unbelievable i thought it was a gift that they gave him really why to like help him out well because yeah like they probably knew going in that he was struggling right and he wasn't going to be tatious pick because it's always funny how people react to the show like sometimes they get mad or like oftentimes when someone who's like top three breaks up with the lead they're like wait what the fuck you didn't know you weren't ready for engagement how do you not know that you know you you showed up for the show and I just think they set him up in a way that made him look sympathetic rather than like,

why are you wasting Tayshia's time? They put him in that position on purpose. Yeah, either way, it was a ridiculous date. But I mean, does you really think that like seeing a jeweler is like somehow that detrimental to Brandon because he was married? No, the biggest problem with it was that it was like their last time to spend together and they were doing it in front of another person the entire time talking about brains.

And then he interviewed them, which was so weird. He didn't leave them alone for a second. Neil Lane's a trip. No, you're right about that. If you're Brandon he's like alright I have my

like things I'm worried about but you know what I'm gonna get some time to talk to Tayshia and really hash it out and the whole time is with Neil Lane showing Prince's cut

and why that's a more delicate ring than the Emerald cut then yeah that might like fuck you up a little bit and we're not even

talking about engagement rings they're talking about wedding bands were you a brandon fan um what brandon i keep saying brandon brandon i was actually pretty surprised by how far he got and by how much taisha was super into him um why i kind of got like fred armisen vibes like fred armisen doing a character vibe. Yeah, I don't think I can unsee that now. Super nice guy, like great, great guy. But I was, yeah, I was surprised.

I mean, I definitely thought she was going to send him home and not Ben after hometowns. Yeah. Were you surprised that he sent himself home over? Do you think Tayshia would have sent him home anyways? I don't know what she would. I mean, I want to believe her being like, I wanted to end up with him. But like, did you actually?

No. No, I never. wanted to end up with him but like did you actually no no i well i never like up until taisha sent ben home i was like i was like you or it was like it's it's either ben or zach right and i definitely thought it might be ben like i wasn't super sold on that like i i i i believed ben and taisha more than i believed Ben and Zach earlier on. You know what I'm saying? It seemed like I could see that. I don't know.

I mean, Zach kind of came out of nowhere. And then once Ben left, I was like, oh, it's going to be Zach. But yeah, so I agree with you that Brendan was never on my she might pick them radar. Towards the end, I was like, eh, maybe. I mean, I could see them being a nice match you know i don't i don't necessarily i don't see it at all ben and taisha looked beautiful together like they were gorgeous i'm really vain and all i care about is what

what they look like i feel you they broke your heart that that they didn't end up together. Yeah. No, I was pretty bummed. I thought it was interesting that, I don't know why, and I don't know if this was more on Tayshia, but they didn't do any, like, they did the next morning shots, but none of them were, like, in bed. Yeah, none of them. They usually do that.

It was a different morning than the usual morning fantasy suites yeah and i i wonder if that was like taisha being like i mean who jumps on a bed in the morning like i didn't you know even zach was surprised i never have certainly no no no i ever will you know like sometimes in relationships where you're like you're dating someone and you the honeymoon phase is over and then i don't no one's ever asked me to that but sometimes you're like let's just do something fun today and you like try too hard like to keep the honeymoon phase going i feel like that's what like if you're jumping on a bed they're just there's just no way like in zach was like who am i like i've never jumped on a bed before like yeah and you still

shouldn't have yeah exactly he's like i must be so in love the rest of your life without jumping on a bed it has this relationship has to work out for zach because if he doesn't then he'll always look back and be like yeah i jumped on a bed with her it's a trick love's a trick you know i was actually shocked that uh they just had ben walk up during the rose ceremony and be like hey what's up guys like i i actually thought it would i thought chris harrison would come out right and then say hey guys uh just you know uh tation set brendan home and um and the guys would get all excited and thinking there's two roses and there's two of them.

But not so fast. And then Ben would walk in after Chris leaves. I thought we'd get that reaction, but we didn't. Chris Harrison was majorly lacking this season. Really? I thought he kind of worked overtime. I missed him. What's your relationship with him like do you guys have a relationship

yeah we're cool yeah we're friends i mean we don't like we we've gotten together at times but i it's not like i don't talk to him on the regular yeah got it consider him a friend a good friend um he's a good dude uh i but yeah he worked he's been working harder i mean you never usually see him on dates during fantasy suite week oh yeah i guess not i don't know i just missed him i like i know jojo came in for a little bit well that was because he had to take his sunday that was him being a dad so because usually they film in the spring so don't make me look like a dick being like why didn't chris like leave his kids more to film chris chris is sensitive and i just want to make sure if he listens to this podcast he doesn't you know doesn't think i'm no it's a

compliment like i really like felt his absence every moment maybe it was because i was bored with everyone else and it's just like where's chris sentiment it listen it was because I was bored with everyone else. I was just like, where's Chris? Send him in. Listen, did you think overall it was a more boring finale than other ones? No, I actually really liked the season. I thought they did a great job considering the circumstances. No, I'm talking about the finale. But you think that... The finale, I mean, do I wish in terms of being a viewer that she gave Ben a date just so I could like hang on a little bit longer.

Yeah. That would have been a little bit more interesting when, you know, it came to the end, but she did the right thing. She, well, she definitely did.

Yes. And I got, I got to wonder if it was, I was actually surprised given what Ben's been through, given what he shared on this season, to even let him be the runner-up. Because there is no worse position in the moment. There is no more stressful position to be the runner-up.

And so, yeah, I don't know if there was anything behind that where it's just like, you know what, we're just going to send him home gracefully we're not gonna lead him on anymore we're certainly not gonna let him pick out a ring and we're not gonna let him get suited up and we're not gonna let him prepare a speech that we're gonna make sure he delivers before we break up so i wonder if that was just them uh trying to do the right thing that's great but like doing the right thing a little bit late considering you guys like sent him home without any warning and like didn't tell him why and like i i found that to be like a little too late you know production doing the right thing

that's that's a fair criticism yeah i'm honestly shocked that they let him be number two to be honest yeah because you know could have had ivan be number two then quite frankly you would probably get a more of a more of a heartbreak but yeah do you think do you think taisha was that torn like when ben comes like that's what i guess that's the big question is like obviously not because she like had her mind made up you know but when she was on that date with zach and she was kind of overthinking and seemed really nervous i was like oh this is guilt because you want to break up with him like you know this isn't gonna work with zach or ben with zach you thought she wanted to break up with zach i think on that date where

they went dancing and he was like i can tell tell she's nervous. And she like was, wasn't really present. I felt like that was like guilt because she wanted to break up with him. And she realized then. Interesting. Well, see, that's where sometimes I'd be curious,

you know, I'd be curious to have a conversation with Tasha, like, like offline, because I don't know what she would be able to say. Because like sometimes they clearly to that point, like they tried to milk the last 20 minutes. Like even her conversation with Chris where it was like,

what's, what's wrong. And she, you know, Chris is just staring at her awkwardly. Like, what are you going to do when Chris Harrison's is staring at you? And like you,

you like, Hey, I'm happy. I'm in love. And Chris is keep staring at you. You get awkward. And you're happy i'm in love and chris just keeps staring at you you get awkward and you're just you're more thinking like what the fuck do you want me to say next and chris is like what's wrong he's like i i don't what else do you want me to say and they turn that into like you stay silent for the more the other person says yeah right but they

turn they turn that into making it seem like maybe taisha wasn't going to pick anyone like that was the big cliffhanger you know um so i what i guess what i'm saying is i don't know if that's um i could picture taisha watching it and be kind of pissed about that i can i can picture being like at no time was i ever doubting that i was going to get engaged to zach i was thrilled the whole time and totally like i can i could totally picture that when taisha's dad came over to see taisha oh yeah and he didn't say anything explicit do we think that he actually was just like you need to choose zach and they cut it out i think he was like you need to get rid of both of them. No, I think that was a really, really, really long-winded way of saying, hey, daughter, I love you. And just so you know, you don't have two choices here.

You have a third, and that is you can leave this show with your head held high single, and you don't have to get engaged. And whatever you want to do, I believe in you, but you definitely can leave single. That's what I think it was. But it turns out all the promos we saw throughout the season were just of Tayshia's dad just kind of having a conversation.

Like he, they, I mean, they had us believe that Tayshia just, Tayshia's dad was super anti one of the guys. Yeah. The music. It's the music. But that's what, when I was watching that, that's what I thought. Because you're just waiting for him to drop this bomb.

Like you said, it's one of the guys. He's like, I really like... He's like, I like Ben, and Zach's a pretty good guy. Or vice versa, or whatever it was. It's like he didn't really compliment either of them, and he didn't really say anything negative about either of them. That's why I felt like she takes what he does so seriously. So I felt like either he was able to get through to her what he wanted to

without saying anything, which was, like, choose Zach, or, like, he was like, you have to, like, to like this person is like an adult and ready to you know and you need to do that and they cut it out did you think it was interesting that neither zach or ben uh at least from what we saw like didn't talk about the the big things they talked about with taisha or or or not i mean i honestly was watching the family you mean yeah i was like i thought to myself would it be appropriate is it not appropriate i i don't know but i just noticed they didn't both of them i thought zach did a little bit didn't zach talk about like how he got married young it didn't work out he found himself kind of into drugs and like

all that kind of stuff and he just wasn't ready for the responsibility he talked about i didn't remember zach bringing up his marriage once in the season i thought that was brendan no zach brought up his marriage to uh taisha's dad he did but i don't think he he did he did not go into the depth that he went with taisha about his struggles no but did you remember zach bringing up his marriage before the dad thing? Yeah, briefly. It was on his day, but there was just so much that he was like,

it was like, hey, I was, like, it was, I was engaged. I was married. I'm divorced. I was an addict. I've been arrested. I got a DU. Like, there was just a litany of things

that he just kind of put on the table that you like you forgot about the marriage you know that was that wasn't even a bad thing so we're like Brandon Brendan's only like story was

I was divorced once and I want I don't want to work out or I don't want to fail again but I don't know who do you think has who do you think has been the best bachelorette to watch i mean i thought i thought hannah brown was her season was amazing it was one of the most entertaining ones i give a lot of credit to to luke parker though the their villain of the season because yeah he was such a i mean he was a real life genius yeah like he's i actually i don't like to cast judgment on people as a

like watching the show but i thought like he seems like he really authentically sucks right right like he delivered every episode it was so easy to hate he made everyone look great and i thought handle hannah handled her that situation great in a very entertaining and fun to watch way it was very honest by keeping him around forever long enough yeah um yeah yeah yeah yeah yes i mean it would be a very different season if luke parker was was uh sent home like week three yeah all in all, I thought Tayshia was one of the best Bachelorettes ever. Not that it was the most entertaining, but she was

by far the smartest one we've seen. She was so fun and cute and not really corny. Not cringe to watch. She's very classy. I'm shocked by this.

She was awesome yeah well you just don't find her entertaining chrissy i'm shocked i didn't find her entertaining at all i find i found her so like unwilling to really kind of get into a vulnerable spot like even when she was talking about like the part where she was like in her interview and she was like my dad sat next to me in a car and i was like oh finally we're gonna get like some kind of like nugget of like emotion from this person because I felt like um you know like we had a discussion with Noah I felt it was like very 70 30 like she didn't like get vulnerable she wasn't like this was the pain that I felt she's like my dad sat next to me in the car and like I was in so much pain and it was like about

to go there and she got emotional and then she so much pain and it was like about to go there and she got emotional and then she just like shut down i was like hannah brown you would she just like it was all over the place yeah my only problem with tasha was that i remembered how she acted with jpj was that his name yeah and that that scarred me that his name yeah and that that scarred me we all have a couple stands on our resume this girl showed up at jpj's house to like beg for jpj back like why why should i believe anything that she feels for anyone no but i really really really liked her that was my one thing that was questionable i i i'll say this i i like i think taisha's probably still mad at me because i said she'd like when when claire was picked as the bachelorette

and a lot of people wanted taisha at the time i i suggested that taisha would be boring and i will say taisha well i think my exact words is that you'll be in bed by eight if taisha is the bachelorette and do you regret saying that no not necessarily i was wrong i think she was a much better bachelorette than i thought she would be uh i thought she did great um and i think well she was also the perfect bachelorette for following claire in the same season that's for sure yeah i, well, she was also the perfect bachelorette for following Claire in the same season. That's for sure. Yeah.

I don't think she was boring at all. And I wouldn't have even thought that when she was picked. I think she's super fun and cool. Yeah. I don't know. She was fine. Yeah. Okay.

I thought she was a great bachelorette. But I thought if you asked me, like, I thought Hannah Brown was more entertaining to watch yeah i don't think anyone would and claire was you know dramatic you know there was you know it was a mess unwatchable actually it was watchable but it was it was so unwatchable that it was watchable yeah it just all depends on how we're scoring the game i guess is what you're saying but i will say i thought i thought tasha was a better bachelorette than i i thought she would be uh i thought she handled herself really well um were you surprised to find out that ben went to west point because like west point's like an ivy it's essentially kind of like an ivy league school is it not it's like yeah i mean i don't know anything about west point yeah it's for the marines or the army right it's the it's like yeah i mean i don't know anything about west point yeah it's for the marines or the army

right it's the it's the army but like so all the all the the all the branches of the military have like west point and then i don't know i've stayed at west point but they're good schools this guy has everything except for pants that fit in like who's gonna turn them down west point is this it's like it's it i would correct me if i'm wrong anyone listening down west point is this it's it's like it's it i would correct me if i'm wrong anyone listening but it's kind of it's it's on par with ivy league schools in terms of prestige and and having you know it's hard it's not easy to get in they don't accept anyone um it's not easy so i was really uh i was you know ben's a quiet guy and and he i think a lot of people maybe incorrectly assume you know weightlifter bodybuilder quiet you know compared to zach

maybe not as cerebral but who knows maybe maybe ben's just quieter you know because do you think they would ever make him the bachelor ben yeah no because do i think they ever would sure do i think they ever will know right why is it because you already have matt james right so you're going to have a whole year and in four months we'll probably forget about ben and he'll probably have a better chance of going to paradise he'll be in paradise for sure and then who knows what happens right maybe something happens in paradise where we find we fall even more in love with ben and then the next bachelorette right like maybe the guys that they have are all like eh fine but ben's story is more compelling so he'll he'll have to go to paradise to become the next bachelor that much i'll i'll say i don't think he can't

go to paradise and not i love how he would have to go to paradise become the next bachelor but matt just doesn't even have to do the bachelor did you think ben when when taisha came to break up with ben do you think ben knew like how long do you think it took ben to figure out he was about to get broken up with because he kept smiling actually i would say it was like a good 11 seconds. Oh, I thought it might have been longer than that. But like slow 11. A slow 11?

Yeah. Because they, yeah, they, that's right. I actually went, I didn't, like, it took me a while to realize that, like, you're right. Like, he didn't even have a date. Because it reminded me when Andy broke up with me, it was when I was supposed to meet Neil Lane, right? And I opened the door thinking I'm going to see Neil Lane and it's Andy.

And I knew right away. Like I knew immediately, right? You were like, I'm fucked. No, I was like, yeah, she's breaking up with me. Like I knew immediately. But in Ben's case, it was a different time. It was, he was supposed to go on a date that day. So I still think that it's never good to see the bachelorette or the bachelor

before you're expecting to. Like surprises aren't usually a good thing in that world. Unless it's from the other way around. Unless it's from them telling you that they love you. Yeah. Well, if Cash shows up to the Bachelor Bachelorette, it's fine. What did you think of Zach's proposal?

You know Zach. He kills it. Yeah. It almost begot, like, and I love, I don't want to criticize a guy who knows what to say, but it just seemed like last last like well it seemed like tonight ben was i mean it seemed like tonight that zach was real like he was pulling out all the stops you know it's like he went into his like bag full of like all the things he's learned how

to say and he was just like delivering them and just really going for it got to the point where it was like too much too much zach yeah i also feel like though it's 2020 like could taisha propose to the guy that she wanted to choose out of these 20 guys would you have liked that yeah i would have i mean i don't like watching anyone propose to anyone because it's embarrassing. But yeah, I would have liked for Tayshia to have done it after the hell these guys have been through. That would have been kind of cool. Fighting for her approval. It would have been a nice... I don't think Tayshia would ever do that. I think Tayshia likes her traditions and she wants to be proposed to.

But I think that would be cool. I hope to see that someday with um you know a future bachelorette claire would have done it yeah dale could have been like trying to break up with her and then she just beat him to the punch by getting down on one d and saying marry me are you excited about matt james kazzy um? The thing I'm most excited about was when I found out that it comes January 4th. You're not even going to make me miss you at all. It's next week. I mean, I guess.

I mean, thank you. I don't know how I would survive without it for that long. It's obviously going to be a really sexy season. That's all I can tell from it. You think so? I mean, he was more shirtless than I've seen all of the Bachelors combined in his promo. He looks good shirtless. So, yeah, they're definitely going to use that.

It's going to be a lot of hot tubs. It feels, it seems like they got like a lot of Instagram. I think that, yeah, they're going to go back to, yeah, if you liked younger contestants and a lot of women who seem like they came on for Instagram followers, then I think you're in luck because I think we're going to get back to that kind of, less deeper conversations and a little more silliness a little bit more drama I'm actually I'm fine with it this has been a good season we've aged up a little bit but it's I'm totally

fine with going back to some more nonsense I'm ready for immaturity on The Bachelor yeah no I agree with you like you can't this was a great season we had some nice heavy conversations but it got a little like oh man jesus fuck if this was like if this was a crazy season you and me would be talking right now for two hours about this episode yeah no it was a pretty this was just like two adults like getting through the bachelorette It's like two adults getting through The Bachelorette and getting engaged. What's there to talk about, really? Brandon saying something very normal like,

hey, listen, I got some baggage and you seem more in love with these other guys. I'm just going to gracefully leave and I'll work on myself. Congratulations. And she's pretty even-tempered about that. She cried over Blake more than anyone this season. That is so wild and then at the tell all oh so we're not going to see taisha and zach together are we i mean on instagram you know no but there's no like tell all where they come out together uh you know we uh we got to tell all with with with uh ben that's on this show i can't't wait. I'm really excited.

I'm sure. But, yeah, I'm assuming that Tayshia will be on some other podcast with Zach, would be my guess, maybe her own, and maybe she'll throw up an Instagram live. Are you going to ask the hard-hitting questions to Ben? Yeah. We'll see if he answers. The hope for Ben is that because we don't get an AFR, the trick about an AFR is to say, hey, listen,

I know you're probably fine, right? It's been months. You recovered. But I want to hear about how you felt then, not how you're feeling now, right? Like how did you feel when Tayshia broke up with you? What was that like? What were the days following?

You know, like I'm curious. I'm just worried that the manipulation of being told your walls are up too much, like how that's going to affect him. Like, I don't want Ben walking around, like telling everyone all of his secrets and like being naked.

So they love him. Like you're fine. Just the way you are, dude. You know what I mean? I want him to i i totally agree i think he's going to be fine and i actually am curious how he feels about that if he thinks his guard is really up or do you was he happy with what he saw yeah i think that was as much as like

i know you love taisha but i think that was as much on Tasha as I was the show oh no that was Tasha that was totally her fault yeah like I just I don't get why she got so mad at him for like yeah it just it doesn't make sense again most vulnerable contestant but he literally got naked

so actually and I didn't get to ask you about that like you were sold on that you didn't find it to be questionable and the fact that he has he's the body of a greek god and decided to the best way to show his vulnerability was to take his clothes off i really believe that he believes in what he's saying and doing i don't believe that he thinks like i'm gonna try and like be hot and naked right now like he's super earnest and genuine in what he's saying. Yeah.

I also, he, he mentioned that he's never cried. I think it was last episode and he looked like he almost cried, but they cut before there was a tear. And I was, I, I want to see him cry.

And I don't mean that as like, I don't want to enjoy it. Like, I think he needs to get it out. Yeah. Like if he's literally never cried, I mean, we just need to like,

cut. No, I want to know. I want to know if he's cried since then. You know, I think it'd be good for him. Yeah. I mean,

I can ask him if he's cried for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll try to get him to cry on the show, to be honest, if he hasn't. Maybe don't. Maybe don't? Okay. Well, congratulations to Tayshia and Zach. What chances do you give them?

I'm really bad at this. I thought Megan Fox and Machine Gunlly were going to break up in october so how long do you give them i don't know i mean i could i'll say this but i think taisha's going to give it her all and i think zach's going to give it their all i think you i think what you have is two people who both really want who really want to make it work right i wonder if i said this last week i i wonder if taisha is ready for how real zach likes to keep things in life you know like i think zach is you know he's been through a lot i don't think zach has time for kind of bullshit in his life and i think taisha and this is an it in his life. And I think Tasha,

and this isn't, it's just an observation. She, I think she likes us things a certain way, you know, how they look, how they present. She very much like cares about,

you know, that, you know, you, I don't think you can be that classy and that on all the time without like paying attention to that type of stuff. Right. Where Zach's kind of like, I'm going to say a bunch of shit and hopefully most

of it sounds pretty good, but once in a while he'll get himself in trouble and I wonder if that will have him in buttheads. I don't know. I hope he's a good guy. The producers are huge fans of him. I think they really like him.

I've heard nothing but great things about Ben and Zach as people. That's great. I think. Well, congratulations. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes you'll have a couple

and end up together and you're like, so what do you think of so-and-so? They'll be like, eh. But I've heard great things that they seem to really. But I wonder. I mean, who knows?

It doesn't. And if they don't work out, it's totally fine. But I'm sure they will try. I mean, who knows? It doesn't... And if they don't work out, it's totally fine, but I'm sure they will try. I mean, they got to date for like five weeks or less. Yeah. I'm sure they...

I feel like... I feel more good about them than at least everyone else that's existed. Like more than like Peter and Maddie? Oh, yeah. But him and that girl are dating, yeah i think yeah i think they're gonna work i'd be shocked if they break up peter and kelly really shocked wow oh and i only know

because i just think she the very little bit i know like like I think Peter seems to really like his mom, Barb. And I think Kelly is a lot like Barb. Oh my God. Sometimes that works out. I feel like, I feel like she would hate that. He said that. Does it make it not true? That is a compliment to be compared to Barb.

Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I'm a Barb fan, you know, it's fine. She's,

I feel like she's a runner up to, know, it's fine. She's goofy. I feel like she's a runner up to What's His Face as like Bachelor villains. Luke, really? Yeah. Yeah. Like if there was a BuzzFeed list.

Luke Parker, Barb. Barb. Correct. I thought she was fine. Yeah, Barb. Barb. Correct. I thought she was fine. Yeah, no. It's definitely been an exaggerated thing. All right. Well, Kazzy, I appreciate you recapping this for us.

Go check out Kazzy's book, No One Asked For This. Check out the link in our bio, and I'll put up a swipe up. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate us five stars sending your questions at asknickatcastme.com cast with a K check us out well it's probably out now or wait for it later in a few hours with our

conversation and basically your AFR with Ben we'll see how he's doing see how he's handled the past few months if he's still in love with We'll see how he's doing, see how he's handled the past few months, if he's still in love with Tayshia, if he's cried, if he's doing okay, if he can get me back in shape. All those questions

are hoped to be answered. That's it. Bye. We should work out with Ben. I'm absolutely going to ask Ben to get me some workouts. So great.