The Viall Files - E215 Holding Space With Ben Smith

Episode Date: December 23, 2020

On this episode of The Viall Files we are joined by Ben Smith the runner up on this season of The Bachelorette. Ben talks through what it felt like in the moment when Tayshia first sent him home, going to Chris Harrison for help, how being vulnerable and sharing his story has shaped his experience on the show and how all he really wants is for Tayshia to be happy.  “I thought we were on the same letter, in the same word, on the same page“ Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Press House Coffee: http://www.presshousecoffee.com/VIALL to get 20%off  Everlane: http://everlane.com/VIALL to sign up for 10% off your first order plus free shipping. Each & Every: http://eachandevery.com/VIALL for 30% off your first purchase  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @benveesmith See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's coffee, people. Trust us. You're going to love Press House Coffee as much as we do. And for a limited time, you get 20% off by going to our special URL. PressHouseCoffee.com slash V-I-A-L-L and use promo code V-I-A-L-L. PressHouseCoffee.com slash V-I-A-L-L and use promo code V-I-A-L-L. Order today at PressHouseCoffee.com slash V-I-A-L-L and use promo code V-I-A-L-L for 20% off. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to a very special edition of The Vile Files.

I am your host, Nick, joined by my producer, Chrissy. Chrissy, how are you doing this morning? This morning, bright and early. I have to say, I have to say I was excited this morning. I woke up, by the way side note i woke up to a bunch of people from our audience is everywhere and i got in so many messages from people in montana trying to welcome me suggest coffee like being like hey if you need anything i thought it was the cutest thing that i woke up to like three messages to people from montana this morning. So thank you, everybody, who's trying to make me feel at home.

Well, that is that is great to hear. We have an amazing guest, Ben. I guess our this, you know, everyone was disappointed. We didn't get to have an AFR to not only see Tasha and Zach and an update on their love story but also checking in on Ben the runner-up and yeah as a member of the runner-up club and and possibly even president of the runner-up club I always love the opportunity to have the possibility to talk to the runner-up Ben who you know broke his own record of of being dumped twice in the same show. But we check in with Ben, and just a fantastic conversation. What a great guy.

And I guess we'll let you just listen to it before we spoil anything. Make sure to check out our episode with Kazzy David, who helps me recap the final two episodes of The Bachelorette, as well as make sure to check out our Ask Nick episodes that drop every Monday. If you love hearing people's dating stories, their vulnerability, and hear some advice on those calls, it's a very popular show that we have. If you are tuning in just to listen to Ben, make sure to check out our other shows. Subscribe, rate us five stars.

We can't thank you enough for giving us an opportunity and giving us a listen. We have our boy Brandon next week. Did I say it right? Brandon. Brandon. Right? Yes. Anyway, he joins us next week.

So be sure to tune in to that. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. I hope you're all doing great things So without further ado Thanks so much for joining Thank you for having me Nick I appreciate it

I just want to first to start off Check in, how are you doing? I'm doing I'm doing better than I thought I would Watching The finale aired last night, watching it with my friends and family, it's a different experience than living it. We're removed by a little bit of time from the actual experience,

and so I get to see it from an objective perspective. It's tough to see yourself go through something like that. Uh, I don't get outwardly emotional. Um, like that's a theme we've heard that that's a theme on the show. Um, platonic relationships. I'm cool. I like can be vulnerable and open and like share everything about myself. But when it turns romantic, I clam up and I get weird and I get posed off and it's hard for me to talk about scary things and I saw myself go through that again last night but you know I I'm happy I'm so happy for the way that it ended up I'm so happy for Tayshia I'm so happy for Zach Zach and I were close throughout the entire experience. And not knowing how it ended, I had no idea what happened after I left.

Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Sometimes people hear. So I chose not to read any of the spoilers. I really have done a lot of work to not engage in any of the comments. I don't read the DMs. I don't do any of that stuff.

Good for you. Yeah. It's so overwhelming. I can't read the DMS. I don't do any of that stuff. Good for you. Um, yeah, it's just, it's so overwhelming. I can't, I can't deal with it. Um, but I'm so incredibly happy for them. You can see that they're happy together. The fact that they're still together is that's incredible in and of itself. And so, uh, I have this like piece, like right now you asked your question was how am I doing? But I have this like piece around the whole experience. I'm like, Holy cow. I came out of that with so much growth and so much experience I'm like a newer better more complete version of myself and so I'm incredibly thankful and happy and I have just this like

this peace about the whole experience so that's what well that's great to hear we're all very happy that that is that's how you feel and it's always nice to try to use this experience like in a therapeutic way kind of like you kind of described um totally i gotta say for someone who's gone on the show myself who's done some things and broken some bad records like you know being a runner-up twice you came close you got dumped twice in the same season you know she sent you home you're like no no i haven't had quite enough yet i want more pain and agony um but uh so just you're going back to that time i mean when taisha's home the first time i know you mentioned on the show how blindsided you were i mean just kind of go just you know and like you know, and like, you know,

sometimes we just don't get to see everything in context, the limited amount of time, but were you really totally shocked? I mean, what was that like? Did you feel like she was waiting for an I love you? Or did you even have any idea why you got sent home when you did? So, you know, we had the hometown date. It went really well. I was incredibly fortunate that I got to have, you know, the art date, which was a little bit more vulnerable for me. I got to express myself a bit and then I got my Juan one, like immediately following. And that's like another opportunity to spend more time with her and be more vulnerable and open. And then I go right into my hometown. So I get these like three opportunities back to

back to back where I feel like I'm really growing my connection with Tayshia. And I thought my hometown date went incredible. We had so much fun. You know, you only see a portion of it on the TV, but we spent the entire day together. It was incredibly playful. And I'm not always just the sad, emotional or emotionless Ben that you see on TV. I do have this playful, fun side. And she and I got to have that experience together. And then meeting my family, it was my sister and one of my best friends, Antonia, and we just, everything just seemed so right. And so leaving that date, I felt compelled to tell her how I felt. I felt that I needed to tell her that I was in love with her. Cause that's where I had this realization that, Oh my God, like these feelings I have really are feelings of love, not just platonic love,

but something romantic, something more. And I just didn't think it was right to do it at the end of the day. Like, Oh, by the way, we had this great day. I love you.

Okay. I'll see you later. It's like a weird rushed thing and then we go into the rose ceremony and chris asked me specifically you know how are you feeling about tation i'm like oh well like i just had this realization about 12 hours ago that like i'm in love with her i haven't had the right opportunity and this is like classic ben i like try and make everything perfect or I try and set something up to be absolutely perfect. And so I walk into that rose ceremony completely 100% expecting to be there the next week. I had no, and maybe this is a failure on my part or lacking some sort of emotional intelligence or awareness, but I had no idea that i was going home when i got sent home

uh but i don't even remember you're not lacking anything i mean the show is what it is i mean listen it's it's it's a show we get it right there it's a little nuts it like zach didn't say he loved taisha until fantasy suite dates i i don't i why, whether it was Tayshia who decided or what, and I'm assuming, Tayshia, that why you had to open up first. It doesn't make any sense. And in the history of the show, you know, granted, there's the Bennetts of the world and the people who aren't top four who might throw out a kind of SOS, I love you.

So it's like, don't send me home. But, you know, when it comes to Final Four, usually it's right around hometowns or maybe maybe the week before hometowns but it's right around that period where affirmations of love stop start happening so you weren't in any way like lagging it wasn't as if like everyone else was like just screaming and holding up signs saying I love you and Ben's just like I don't know how to feel you know like that wasn't what was going on well I'm not privy I mean as you know this I'm not privy to like their interactions and similar to like how I've approached the social social media thing following the show I like I had blinders on like there's a common refrain of me during the

show where I'm like yo I don't give a fuck about what you're doing like this is only me and Tayshia you guys do whatever you feel is right. I'm going to have this relationship because at the end of the day, only one of us gets to have a life with her. And so I'm not smart enough to handle this experience and also deal with yours. So I really had – You humble yourself, but I just want you to know

that there's nothing wrong with you in that regard. You're not lacking any emotional intelligence or, or anything. I hope you get that out of your head because that's, that's not the case. But I, yeah, that's exciting. To answer your question. I had no idea that she wanted me to tell her that I love her in that moment. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't see it. And when she sent you home, again, it's again, what did she say to you?

I don't know if we got the whole gist because it kind of seemed like you guys didn't have like the big conversation one would have, like when you get sent home at that point, right? Yeah. So was it like, hey, you didn't open up or what was going on that kind of made you process everything that she said that ultimately led to you coming back? She said something to me that I didn't understand in the moment, and they showed it on TV, but she says, I don't think we're on the same they showed it on TV, but she says, I don't think we're on the same page.

Are you even ready to get married? And like outside of that, there wasn't much conversation there. It was a lot of me sitting there trying to figure out how to breathe and her like staring at me. But she said, I'm not sure we're on the same page. And I, up until that point, I thought we were we're on the same page and I up until that point I thought we were both completely on the same page around the same letter in the

same word on the same page and I so you're like totally dumbfounded dude I like joke about this before I was like I've never been I've never been more caught off guard ever in my life, but it was a pretty cool experience because it showed some blind spots for me. It showed me that maybe the thing that I'm seeing or what I'm perceiving about this thing might be incorrect, or maybe not. I'm not sure.

What do you mean by blind spots? Do you mean like what I learned when I was on that show, right? Yeah. Is like you know that you don't know what's going on, but you really are smacked in the face of never assume in life. I mean, going on that show, if you go far enough, it reinforces, and it's not the first time we've learned that in life to not assume, but it really enforces to never take things for granted and don't get too confident.

Are you saying that? Or are you saying like it made me realize, you know, something else? I'm saying that in one hand, but in the other, it's like I have my experience and what I think is reality. You have yours. And then there is actual reality. And that's not a play on words. I don't mean like because of reality TV, but like in our experience here, we're all living a different thing. And there's one like actual reality. And so maybe it's a function of the show itself. Maybe it's a function of like 30 dudes dating one woman. But you create this story in your head where you're like, Oh my God,

the experience that she and I are having is either so much better or so much worse than everyone's out. Everyone else's. And I was in the camp of being like, there's no fucking way that any other dude is having the same experience that I am having. And you know, little do I know, she's got a better connection with somebody else,

which is, like I said, incredible and I'm so happy for them. But watching it back now, I see, oh my God, Ben, dude. Like your relationship was one thing and it was playful and fun and like, I can see that connection that we had, but like, it's pretty connection that we had but like it's pretty evident that there was a deeper bond and a deeper connection you know ultimately with zach you can see their chemistry you can see the way they play off of each other and it's and it's cool to see from like an objective perspective or like a fan of the show now because i'm like

a fan of the show i'd never seen the show before. This is the first time I'd ever, first time I ever watched, um, which is pretty neat. Um, like this is insane. When I came back, I had no idea that I was going to meet her family the next day. I didn't know. I didn't even know that the next steps. Yeah. You're like, Oh, I didn't even know that I, to be honest, the whole time in my head, I think I had, might've even said it in an ITM like that she met met my family, but when do I get to do that too?

Is that a thing, kind of? Yeah. Yeah, and so I show up and I go back to the rose ceremony and she says, you know, tomorrow you get to meet my family. And you can't, I don't think you get to see it, my face is just like, oh, I have to meet her family. And that was like the next day. Nothing makes you feel okay like drinking a delicious cup of coffee,

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obviously as you as you watch the show back a lot of guys don't do that right um and it's usually like the final two guys or final three or you know for ending this season was more like the final four i feel like you ivan um brendan uh zach and uh and yourself really focused on on taisha and and and you get that with the final four but i'm glad you were able to see Zach's connection because, like you said, it really makes you go, okay, well, that makes sense. And I'm not struggling with the whys and the hows and things like that. When you came back and then she pulled Ivan, you know, Zach's a talker, right? And, and so Zach's just like the, the whole time you're just like, you, you had that kind of glazed look like, Oh fuck, like I came back. What's going on? Like, is she going to keep me?

I don't know what's going on. And you're thinking Zach's talking. And it's just like, so yeah, she could keep me. She cannot. I mean, I don't know. I like ham sandwiches and like, I like my steak medium rare. And I was just like, Hey, did you know that the full moon out today like zach's just like he's like he's a nervous talker i'm more like zach in that regard yeah but it was pretty funny that you could tell that you were just like what the fuck is going on it was it was pretty yeah i was just trying to be be like a support for him or you know he was incredibly eager to find out what was happening next i think there was like an assumption that he was going next to speak with her and then like maybe me, I don't know. Um, but yeah, it's, it's weird to

walk back into that situation because like, I have no, my intention is not to like kick Ivan out. It's like, I'm trying to further my relationship with her. And that's just like a function of how the thing goes. You got to do what you got to do. How, how many How many days, like how long were you thinking about, like so you got sent home, obviously, quarantined, you're still on the compound, right? We all know this. Were you just like, I gotta tell her, obviously you kind of assumed why you got sent home,

and yet we got to see you say, I love her, you're in the car. So like what was the ultimate decision that made you got sent home and yet you're, we got to see you say, I love her. You're in the car. So like, what was the ultimate decision that made you say, I want to go back and regardless of what she says or whether she receives it, I want to say, I love you. Yeah. Um, as soon as I got back to my room or like away from the experience, it's like, holy fuck, I should have said something like i don't have many regrets or i don't i don't do that often i don't think well i should have done that differently um but i was like i need to talk to her i need to talk to somebody

and uh i reached out to chris harrison and i was like yo can i talk to you and he's like yeah i guess that we could set that up that'll be cool and so i go and talk to him and i'm like if anybody can get me in front of taisha or at least like pass a message along it's him certainly daddy harrison yeah yeah and so i have a conversation with chris and and i mean you see a majority of it in the show but i have a conversation with chris i'm like look this isn't done for me yet uh i've been showing up for her this entire time, but now I need to show up for myself. I feel like I left things on the table, and I'm not trying to come back because that's insane, but I am trying to at least express myself

and at least share with her how I feel about her, just maybe for some closure or for anything. I mean, did you really have no hope that she would take you back or were you just had like a realistic understanding that there's a good chance she wouldn't yeah i mean of course i was hopeful but too like we've all gotten back with an ex and like this is an extreme situation but like we've all gotten back with an ex and it's always weird it's always different it's never the same relationship there's always some sort of resentment there's always some sort of like thing that's unsaid an elephant in the room like all the time at least from my experience and so i was concerned that that would be the case um you know and she says it when she lets me go she's

like you know my relationship with zach has just progressed farther because of the experience they had during the fantasy suites. And I totally understand that. So I was I had reservations about that coming back in. But you better believe that I I wanted at least the chance to express myself and I wanted the chance to continue this journey. And I wanted the chance to ultimately end up with her. For the first time in my life, I found a woman that I could see being the mother of my children. That's like not a thing.

I don't get to that place. I't think about that thing uh very often and she checked all my boxes which is unreal well I'm I'm glad to hear all this uh yeah and even the way you just talked about Tisha you know to be able to say how you felt about her, own those feelings. And like you said, still demonstrate a lot of happiness for her and Zach. I mean, it just makes me think that you're in a really good place. And I'm just, I guess, happy to hear that. And I'm sure the people listening are too, because it sounds all very honest and heartfelt and quite frankly, a very healthy, right? You know, just to kind of vary a healthy, you know, big picture outlook on the experience. And that's, that's really nice to hear. Thank you. It hasn't always been that way. So it's like,

it's a really cool thing for me to like, at least have this perspective. And like you mentioned therapy at the very beginning, but I used this experience. I haven't dated in a long time. It's been over a year since I've been on a date. I haven't been in a relationship in a long time. Focusing on myself, focusing on my career. And I've been in therapy for several years, different levels of intensity. And I just never felt like I was able to apply those things in my actual life i never felt like i got past this like weird threshold that i created in my head was like okay now i'm ready to get it back out there and date i'm ready to like try this

thing again and so uh the bachelorette experience for me was an opportunity to be vulnerable and be open and like try things that scare me to the point that I don't try them in my regular life. I could do it without external stressors. I could do it without any sort of competing demands. I could focus completely on myself, on this woman. And that goes back to like the blinders thing. And I like, I don't half-ass anything. And I full-assed this thing. And I just, I came in trying to meet a girl, trying to learn something about myself and like maybe restore my faith in humanity. And that like, and I got all those things, which is nuts to me. If you would have told me this a year ago, dude, you're going to go on this reality TV show and you're going to

like fall in love with a girl. You're going to come out of it the most complete person that you've ever been. And then you're going to get to like help other people with sharing your story, which I like didn't even intend to share. Like, dude, I, I'm so incredibly thankful for this experience, for the example that you've set for you, like reaching out to me, just like throughout this whole thing for just everybody in bachelor nation. It's been absolutely incredible. I am a clothes and jeans snob. I'm just going to say it. I am because I like things that fits my body and make me feel good. And I like to be comfortable while looking great.

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when you go to everlane.com slash V-I-A-L and sign up when you came back uh just kind of wrap up the actual season uh were were you a little like i was as a viewer i was surprised that you come back you're like i love you hey you know that thing you wanted me to say that thing you wanted me to do i'm okay i'm sorry i'm a little late you know technically not any later than zach but hey i iress. And were you mad that she seemed so pissed off at you or did it, did it, did it, did it read differently in person? It didn't read differently in person. Cause I was like, why are you so, why are you yelling at him, Tasha?

why are you so why are you yelling at him Tasha it was more it was more intense in person um my hands were shaking my legs were shaking uh but for some reason I may I like do this thing where I can like reframe every experience to everyone else is mad at me like that's how I like frame the thing and so I came back into that expecting her to be upset expecting her to be frustrated I can understand that she like did this thing where she had removed me from her life and so there was no more emotional energy put on Ben and then me coming back I can imagine that that's incredibly stressful and uh I was trying my best to like hold space for her in that conversation because I can't even imagine what she's going through um but I also was you know the way that it ends with the hug at the door and her kissing me like that reaffirmed a lot of the things that I was hoping for and so going into your hot makeout afterwards that was a hot yeah like it was hot it was super hot it was super hot so

our hobby i mean i gotta yeah it moved you know i was like our hot make yeah our hot make out at the end reinforced all these things that i was hoping to get from that conversation i was hoping that she would like maybe show some outward expression of affection towards me or like at least give me a signal that she was into me uh and that all happened but like yeah she was mad at me and like i understand it you sure okay well you're you're better than i am well it definitely wasn't like a hate kiss no well no or like an angry kiss but here's how it seemed i mean obviously you've had some time to process this but i like when you came back at first, I'm like, oh, Ben is going to win because like, OK, she's mad. That seems a little little nuts. But OK.

She's mad because Ben's her guy, right? And maybe we didn't get to see anything, but she was mad at Ben for kind of putting her through this. But Ben's the guy she really wants, and now he's put Tayshia in this tough spot to have the fantasy suit with the other guys, but now she's going to have to break up with them, etc., etc. And that's where the frustration came. And then we got to see this hot makeout. It's like, oh, yeah, see, she's mad, was that's where the frustration came and then we got to see this

hot make out it's like oh yeah see she just she's mad but she really wants the guy but then no then like it was like no i'm gonna pick sack so then it's like actually hindsight being 2020 i was more like why was she so mad at him but you know whatever what are you gonna do she's doing her best yeah how how was it? You know, obviously when she, you know, ended the relationship, you, I'm assuming you were shocked or, you know, I don't know, like some kind of, sometimes people kind of like, you know, being the runner up with Andy, I was, it was a little different than with Caitlin, but I kind of woke up that morning. Now you woke up, you got broken up on your date, but, uh, you kind of woke up that morning now you woke up you got broken up on your date but yeah uh

you kind of i personally had these feelings of i it's me oh shit i don't know if it's me or like you know like a lot of back and forth and then when andy should have and so andy should have my date when i thought i was going to meet neil lane and so tasia showed up at your door when you thought you're gonna date like i as soon as andy showed up i was like in my head i was like fuck i i knew like what about you were you more confused because it was supposed to be a date or did you sense it right away when she was about to break up with you like where was your head at when that was happening um you know she walked she came to my house which she never does that's never happened before she actually she knocks on the door and i like didn't even think to go answer it so she knocks again and

i'm like oh fuck i gotta go answer that door and so i go answer the door and she's there and like i can read body i can read her body language in that moment and she's like not hugging me she has like a very serious look on her face. And I'm like, Oh, this is, this is not ideal. And so, uh, we walk in the house. Well, we, what did I do? Yeah. I, I was like, well, fuck, we both wore blue. I guess I'll have to change my shirt. Um, but, uh, she walks in and we sit down on the couch and again, like me being naive,

I'm like so hopeful that there's like good news at the end of this. Like the conversation might be like, it might be okay. Maybe she's having a hard day and I like, I I'm here to listen. And I like, just want to see where this goes. And so you can actually, you actually can see it on the, on the finale last night. There's a moment where she's, I cannot remember what she says in the moment, but you can just see my face and my body language switch. And I do this like big gulp

because I like, she said, I cannot remember what she said, but she said something about like, but I need to follow my heart. And I knew in that instance that like, it wasn't with me. And I'm trying my best in that moment. I have the same thing that happened before where my head's like, and I like can't hear. and I like complimenting you the whole time. And then all of a sudden it was the butt. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And I thank you, but like, am I supposed to be mad or sad? Why are you telling me how awesome I am? And this is a weird, this is a weird thing to do, but I had that,

I had that knee jerk reaction to like shut it all out. And I am like incredibly proud of myself in that moment uh where I like didn't shut it out and I got to tell her I'm like look like my feelings don't change this is so abrupt and so quick like my feelings don't change in this moment I'm still in love with you uh but when you love someone you let them grow you let them go do that thing that they need to do and so like I'm completely sincere in that like, I'm incredibly happy for her. And like, I don't even remember saying this, but she said, you know, like you'll find happiness or whatever.

And I said like some cheesy thing like someday or something. I don't even remember saying that, but like, that's the truth. Like she'll find her happiness and like, I will also. And I'm so thankful I'm so glad that she did it there in that way and didn't make me walk down that fire hazard path into the into the woods to to not get a rose at the end I'm so thankful she did an incredible job of like taking the time to be sincere and compassionate and and and give everyone, like even all the other guys that made it to like the final five or six, she gave us like the

opportunity to like have a final experience with her. And I, and I appreciate that a great deal. It's a, I'm glad you have all those, you know, feeling towards Tasha. It's funny how it works out, you know? Yeah. You know, Andy broke up with me that way. Then Caitlin, I did the the the walk and the ring pickup but on it quite frankly like hindsight's hindsight's always 2020 i've caitlin i had a lot

of talk conversations about uh how thankful i am that she took it that far because the way it played out i had a similar like watching it, I remember feeling proud of myself. I also blacked out. I also, when I watched it back, was like, I said that? Wow. Dude. Like, okay. Yeah.

Good for me. But it's a weird experience to feel like this person put you in this spot or, you know, like you could have, if you wanted to, you could have been justified to feel some anger and be like, well, why did you bring me back? Like, why did you why did like why didn't you just say, you know, all these things that you could have justifiably felt anger. And yet you chose to, you know, show the grace and so show the soft side of you. And like you said, say these things that when you got to watch back feel proud of yourself and that's something you will i promise you will you will take with you and hold on to uh forever i i think um at least for me i talk and like i'm getting like a lot of heat because i said i don't cry and then i like to cry at the end of the show yeah did you did you cry is it

official because it seemed like you wiped something i wasn't sure if it was sweat so to be honest we won't confirm or deny that there were tears coming out of my eyes i think i might have had Is it official? Because it seemed like you wiped something. I wasn't sure if it was sweat, to be honest. We won't confirm or deny that there were tears coming out of my eyes. I think I might have had one drop come out of my left eye, but that's a very hard thing for me. I was joking with Chris. That emotion, that thing doesn't happen to me. And at the end of the experience, I had this overwhelming feeling of what I think crying might be. And I had to wipe a little. I had like a little bit of moisture in there. What's your favorite – have you seen the movie Rudy? Yeah.

I'm from Indiana. When Rudy runs onto the field at the end of the movie, are you telling me you don't get that like swell? I'm cheering. You don't get that swell of emotion in your neck i'm running with him like i'm yeah i yeah so am i but i'm like i will tell you i will say that like uh since the experience and this is not even a joke i have cried uh and i think i don't know if this like knocks something loose or whatever but i noticed that music like really brings it out of me you're're like Chandler from Friends who didn't know how to cry and then turned on the waterworks.

Yeah. But you talk about anger and not that I don't experience that emotion. Of course I get angry, but I can understand. I'm incredibly empathetic and I can understand her experience and I can understand the way she may be feeling. And I know that like she's just doing the best that she can. And like in the same way that I get sent home for trying my hardest and like, you know, everyone's this is just one massive exercise in empathy. And if I can't just at least sit with her and feel how she's feeling or at least look at it objectively and be like look she's having a tough time i'm sure i don't want to break up with anybody and she had to break up with what 23 other people like no i can't even imagine and so i'm not holding any resentments yeah no

resentments no anger no nothing like do you and i said it i said it when she broke me the first time like i'll be all right like i'll be all right. Like, I'll be all right. I say it from a different perspective now. It's not like a weird walled off thing. It's like, I just understand that like. You faced other things. Yeah. Like we're good.

Well, that's really good. And I'm glad. And like I said, you have that awareness and that empathy to recognize that in the moment i i you know i was able to recognize that after time passed but i didn't recognize that you know um in the moment i you know i said certain things but like oh man when i got in the limo when caitlin broke out with me i was i was crushed i was devastated i you know different situations since we kind of knew each other before but there was uh i wasn't able to have that um kind of uh out-of-body self-awareness that you demonstrated is so so quickly so that um i'm glad that you were able

to do that i think a function of me sitting in the room for a week during their fantasy suite week, like, allowed me to get into a different headspace. It allowed me to see, I mean, I sat there for several days and just basically journaled the whole time. And I'm just trying to, like, figure out, I'm not that introspective. I mean, I guess I am a little bit introspective, but, like, I spent a lot of time with my own thoughts and my own feelings. And I was trying to figure out how I could be wrong about how I feel about this or how I might

be wrong about what I thought our relationship was and so you talk about the like ebbs and flows of like being really excited about you possibly getting to spend your life with Caitlin or Andy or whatever and then like you're like oh my god she's not going to pick me or whatever. And I think maybe she caught me on a, oh my God, she's not going to pick me moment. I don't really recall, but I just remember being incredibly level-headed and like grounded in that moment. And even in like the hours following, like when I get in the limo and whatever, I just was incredibly grounded and I felt gratitude for the experience. And I still feel that now, you know, which is cool.

That's great. Did you, was there kind of a grieving period for you or did you feel that? Oh, totally. Okay. Totally. Yeah. When you got back to Venice. You might not believe it, but I try and fill my time with work so I don't have to think about my feelings.

And so I get back. So I get back to Venice. You know, I'm at La Quinta the whole time. So I'm there until the very end of filming. I come right back and I like start working the next day because I'm like not cool. How was that? I did the same thing on Andy's season? Terrible idea.

Terrible idea. It was a horrible idea. It was the worst idea ever. And so I coach fitness. I live in Venice like 800 feet from a gym where I coach and then we run an operation in West Hollywood also and so I'm back and forth across the city. I'm always

doing a thing. I coach seven days a week so it's like I never had a moment to think about it. And then I remember my me time is walking to the beach, it's like a 10 minute walk to the beach. I remember I walked to the beach one night, and I sat down there and it was like sunset. And I just had like, a three hour, I don't know if you call it a cry set. But I said like a three hour, like, Oh, my God, like, that was one hell of an experience. And I had like

this grieving thing. And then a couple of days later, I like had another less intense, like, oh my God, that was an experience of a lifetime. And I'm like torn up about the fact that I don't get to continue that relationship. But, you know, I have the most incredible support system and the most incredible friend group. And my sister lives locally here.

My friend, Antonia, who was on the show, she lives three houses down. support system and the most incredible friend group. And my sister lives locally here. My friend, Antonia, who was on the show, she lives three houses down. What is the relationship there? My friend, Julia Lipman is dying to know because she's a big fan of Top Chef. And I had no idea that she was on Top Chef. And everyone was like, okay, is this a friend? How do we know her? Like, okay, is this a friend? How do we know her? Yeah, so I left the army in 2018.

I took a job doing digital marketing in Los Angeles. And I really didn't like it. I didn't like the fact that I didn't get to impact anybody. And so I left that job. And there was this interim period, early 2019. I wasn't in a great headspace. I didn't have a job. I didn't really have any income. I didn't have any impact on anybody.

And so I started personal training. I'd been coaching, like freelance coaching for a while. And so Antonia's daughter was my first ever client. Oh, yeah. March of 2019. And then I started coaching Antonia shortly thereafter. And so we have this, we've had this relationship for now two years. And it's become like, she is joking.

She's like, Oh my God, they think I'm your mom. She's like 10 years older than me. She's not my mom. She's like a brother, a sister. We thought it was like your sister's best friend. At first we thought it was like maybe your sister's girlfriend or something. We had no idea. Like there was no context. We're like, okay. Get this. Get this. Weirdly enough, we have a large celebrity chef community at our gym,

Deuce Gym in Venice. But I had no idea who she was. I didn't know that she was a superstar and like a badass in her own field. I just thought she was Antonia from the gym. And so we built this relationship around like just trying to get better. I was like her Sherpa on that like fitness, health and fitness journey. And we're basically the same person. So we get along better than almost anybody. And so we just had this incredible relationship. Did you know she was going to be there? Did you ask for her to come with your sister? Like how'd that get set up?

My parents weren't able to come. My father, he's a dentist. He has a practice that was out of operation for a long time with COVID and with like quarantine restrictions, all that stuff. My parents weren't able to come. They're a bit older. Yeah, it just was, it was too much for them.

And I totally understand that. it was too much for them but my i was hopeful my sister would be there i had no idea antonio was coming um but if i were gonna pick one person it'd be her like yeah like i spent yesterday with her i'm gonna go to her house today like i just spend every day like at her house like it's not uh it would be it would be silly for anyone other than Antonia to be there as my family. That's great. You seemed really happy. Oh, it was the best. Was it your sister or her that was like, you love her?

It was Antonia. I'm incredibly thankful for that conversation. Sometimes it takes somebody that knows you better than you know yourself to pull things out of you. The only thing, I wish that I would have been able to come to that realization on my own. I think me telling her how I feel because I'm comfortable sharing it is incredibly beautiful and it's a cool thing that I could have been able to express to her. But having Antonia sit there with me and listen to me and ask me all the right questions

and have me share about my experience, she's like, dude, don't be a fucking tool. You're in love with her and if this is how you feel, you need to tell her that. I know, I listened to your podcast with Justin and you're talking about how that my the way that I am on the show kind of contradicts how my sister described me where it's like Ben wears his emotions on his sleeve and he's like this guy but once you get in you're like you're in and I think that she's had so much more experience with me and we connect on such a deeper level and such a different level.

I think she would have said the same thing. My sister would have said the same thing. Well, yeah. And like we said, Justin, I said, it's just like as we've reiterated the show, we all get siloed into personal letters or characters. show we all get siloed into personal letters or characters and i mean it seemed like taisha's love language is words of affirmation and maybe yours is something else right so if your sister yeah so like that's how you um demonstrate your affection and love and it made sense why your sister could say that about you. Again, she knows your sister. She knows, you know, how you, you know, little things and why someone like Tasha, who's in

a relationship with you, might not be picking up on that early on. You know, she's, you know, has the bachelorette. You're just like, you know, you have to turn it on and off every day with a new person. It's a very difficult position to be in. every day with a new person it's it's it's a very difficult position to be in so why Tasha white white a sha wasn't it wasn't registering with her but registering with your sister yeah and and I mean I'm sure I mean you definitely know but like the interactions are so fleeting you know early on in the experience like you have these little tiny bits or these little

tiny tastes of each person and so like I, I can't even imagine, like, it's hard for me to date one person. I don't know how she dates 20. How you, how you dated 20. I don't know how, I literally don't know how it happens. It's a, it's exhausting. Yeah. She, you, it's physically, emotionally, she had to turn it on, turn it off. It's even harder when you really like more than one person right totally uh and uh yeah it's an impossible it's an impossible task um i'd be curious talking to taisha just because like you know giving teasing her about being mad

at you you're yeah she's probably just exhausted and physically emotional it's hard i wouldn't be surprised if she watched it back she's like i was a little hard on the guy um but again just probably just she was probably just like oh projecting frustration and totally and and exhaustion on you yeah it's uh i said it on the show many times but the reason i fell in love with her is because of the way that she made me feel. It's like a buzzword in LA, but she held space for me. She created a space for me to be open and vulnerable, and it was safe, and it was secure, and she didn't run, and she didn't chastise me, and she didn't do anything other than just receive me. And for that, I'm grateful, and i'm incredibly thankful for the experience and uh yeah i again i

like don't know how she did it and i don't know how you did it and i don't know how all the other people do it um but yeah she handled herself with beauty and grace and she did a fantastic job well you're a sweetheart ben's dms are open lighten up i probably won't read i probably won't read them but i might so it's probably smart you know you know don't you know probably not um you obviously you know shared a lot of personal stories, um, in the season about obviously, uh, your mental health struggles and suicide. You know, again, I want to personally thank you as someone who's had people, you know, uh, in my family, um, fight, uh, you know, suicide attempts and struggles with that. And, and, you know, we've had conversations with this podcast about the importance of

awareness and, and, you you know the stigmas around suicide and um the shame that kind of come with it whether it's from religious factors and things like that um right and and to that to the point where we don't get to see everything because we're just limited with time you know just wanted to give you an opportunity to you know if there was any context missed or not delivered in a way that you wanted to present it about your experience and your struggles, um, as well as maybe just, you know, I know everyone's kind of checking in on you and making sure whether you like

that or not, or, or just, you know, the floor is yours to kind of, um, make sure that everything you want to say is said regarding that topic. Yeah, I appreciate it. Again, thank you for reaching out during the process of the show. And I appreciate that people have been so receptive. I know it's a heavy topic. I know it's not something that we talk about, especially on national television like this. And to be honest, it was completely unintentional.

My intention wasn't to come on TV and like speak about these things. You know, like had Claire been the bachelorette, I doubt that a connection would have formed such that I would have felt compelled to share any of those things. Talking about a former eating disorder, talking about my mental health uh issues for lack of a better term um but i was put in a situation and like again this is why i keep talking about how incredibly important this experience was for me like in no other setting would i have ever shared these things i'd have never felt comfortable um but i'm trying really hard to be a better person. And so I got to a place with Tayshia where I was seriously considering marrying this person. I was seriously considering pursuing a relationship with this person. And I didn't want to enter into anything that might potentially be permanent without her knowing everything about me.

And people are going to be like, oh, but you couldn't tell her that you loved her? And I'm like, oh, but you couldn't tell her that you loved her? And like, no, like I couldn't. But lower hanging fruit, I was able to talk about an experience that was incredibly important to me and impactful to me, having an eating disorder for majority of my 20s. And like that experience shaped me and shaped how I look at other people

and how I care for other people. Thank God I've like passed that part of my life and I've, I'm in a recovery state or I'm recovering. How are you able to identify that struggle? I, I feel like, I mean, I don't know, I don't have a lot of knowledge on eating disorders, but a lot of these types of struggles, our friends and family see it before we see it in ourselves. Totally.

Right? Totally. And how were you able to kind of see the light, so to speak, in terms of the struggles that you were facing? Yeah, so it started off when I was super young, 15, 16. I was chubby. I was an overweight kid. I realized that girls didn't really like the chubby overweight kid.

And so initially it was like some sort of let's lose weight fast so the girls will like me thing. But then it quickly turned into like a control mechanism. And it was like I have control over this thing. I control what I put in my mouth or an outfit in my mouth. And I have even more control if I like purge the stuff that I ate. And it's like, it's like, if you don't understand it, you like, it's hard to conceptualize, but like, there's so much control and power. And when you feel like your life is out of control, that's like an easy thing to come back to. So it was for me, it was a lot of like stress induced bulimia. Noticing it with your friends and family is

challenging, because often it's like just like an addiction it's it's often not the most advantageous thing to like engage them you need to like understand it and have awareness around what they might be experiencing but you need to like let them come to you and uh my younger sister my sister my only sister she is the most incredible person at doing that she can listen and she can understand and she can hold i hate that i keep saying this but she can like hold space for you and like create an environment where you feel safe to share your things and she fucking knew the whole she knew the whole time she just like isn't isn't being like ben you got

to stop that and so uh what allowed me to transcend that experience was finding a therapist that I jive with on every level. I have the most incredible therapist here in Beverly Hills, and I work with her being introduced into a community that supports me unconditionally with the gym, with my family here and my friends. Is her name Darlene? Her name is Sarah Baldwin. Mylene her name is sarah baldwin

oh my name my therapist's name is darlene oh sarah yeah she's been fun if we shared this yeah that would be that would be wild but so so i'm able to like transcend that experience um the i think that the you know that conversation with teacher was much longer than six minutes I think that the, you know, that conversational attention was much longer than six minutes. And so, yeah, so I'm able to or probably more importantly care deepest about me and I you know I had a lot of things around I leave a career that I thought I was going to be in forever I leave a relationship that I thought would end in marriage and last forever I take a job that I didn't want to do but I felt that I needed to do it because it was like the best option I leave that job and I'm in this position where I'm like, holy shit,

I live in a city that I can't afford. I don't have a career that impacts people positively like I used to have. As a soldier, as an army officer, I was impacting soldiers on a daily basis and it was the thing that fueled me. I didn't like the army for the fighting or for the uniforms or for the awards or for the whatever i i love soldiers

i love impacting young men and women i love being somebody that they can look up to and so all of that was gone i'm in this position where i feel like i can't do anything else and i feel that like i can't reach out to anybody because I would just be a burden. And the same way with the eating disorder, if you like haven't experienced that thing, then you like might not understand what it would mean to somebody in that situation. But it's insane.

It's dark and it's scary. And like, for me, the only option was to like, not be around anymore. And looking back, I'm so thankful for the therapy I've received and for the work that I've done on myself. But you look back on that experience, you're like, oh my God, Ben, there's so much help. There was so much help available to me. And so if anything, what I share on the show, I hope that that resonates with somebody. And I hope that they can at least see that there are people who are going through the same thing and there are people who like

you may never assume you would never assume that I'm feeling those things but you better believe I was feeling those things yeah and I'm not a quitter and so I act on those things and that's like a that's a scary that's a scary place to And I, and I just want people to know that like, I see you, I've been in your shoes and like, I hope, I hope that you know there are people who are thinking about you and there are people that are here to help you. And so I'm so grateful for the show to post the national suicide hotline. And I'm planning to work with a couple of veteran focused organizations here

in the next coming months. Veteran suicide is a massive issue. And I never thought that I would be a statistic. I never thought that I would be a part of that group. As a soldier, I'm fulfilled. And I'm like, oh my God, I could never do that. I would never be part of the 22 a day. There's 22 veterans a day that commit suicide. And I look back now and I was scared to share and I was scared to be an advocate in this regard but now I cherish the responsibility and I cherish this opportunity to like be a voice for the people who might be scared to speak out and so again it was unintentional but I'm so incredibly thankful that I got to the place with Tayshia where I was able to share that part of me.

Yeah, I can't thank you enough. And, you know, it's a dating show that is, for the most part, meant to be a time where we turn off our brains and we have some fun and watch some cattiness. once in a while, people like yourself can come on and share some very honest stories that can have a really positive effect on the audience and all the people watching and who might be struggling or maybe they're not at that point where they're actually, whether it's suicide or you know considering that or eating disorders but yeah everyone we it's we live in a time where it's easy to feel alone you know especially now yeah and to look at someone like yourself who you know at face value you look like this great looking have it together smart guy it's just like everything he's on tv he's dating this beautiful woman and to hear your story is um yeah it makes people feel

less alone and seen and and um you know if you if you can help one person it was worth it so so thank you yeah no i appreciate it i appreciate the platform i've been trying my hardest to thank everybody that i see that's associated with the program uh but yeah i'm just thankful to have had the experience hopefully i provided some like turn your brain off enjoy tv time but it's nice it's nice to talk about uh it's nice to talk about important things and i think that the show specifically this season like i said i hadn't watched seasons past but uh i think that the the team did an incredible job of making real issues a priority which is cool before we let you go ben we we like to play a game with our our guests and i think it's it's more appropriate in these contexts because as you know most people who go on the show and go far you know it's

just even if they whether they like their edit or not they're just like but there's so much more to me you know like I'm not and so sad dude. And so this game is called Do You Know Me, Ben, right? It's real simple. I'm going to read off some questions. Has Ben done this? Can Ben do that? Has Ben ever done, et cetera, et cetera? Don't answer right away.

Chrissy and I are going to guess the answer. Okay. Then we'll ask you who's right. You guess the answer. Okay. Then we'll ask you who's right. If you have an anecdotal story that goes with your answer, feel free to share.

If not, a simple yes or no will suffice. Question number one, are you ready? I'm ready. I got it all stacked here, so I'm just kind of randomly selecting these. Question number one. Are you ready? I'm ready. I got all stacked here, so I'm just kind of randomly selecting these. Question number one. We're starting out of the gates hot, Ben. Is Ben in the Mile High Club? And if you're not sure what we're talking about, Ben, have you ever had sex on an airplane?

One mile off the ground. We will allow, if you've landed on any of the bases while in the air we will take that as a yes uh so i'm even like kissing come on not kissing not kissing second okay second third or home you had to be touching some privates a little bit even if it was over the covers right i'm gonna say i'm gonna say he hasn't i don't know military guy rule follower by the way ben i just want to say west point that's a that's a that's a flex i don't we didn't we didn't shed enough light but like it's not easy to get into west point that's like

an ivy school yeah the only reason i came up is taisha's not easy to get into West Point. That's like an Ivy League school. Yeah, the only reason I came up is Tayshia's sister went to Navy, so I was doing the whole thing where I was like, yeah, you went to the Inferior Service Academy. I spent two nights at West Point camping. They sent us on this thing to like, when we were younger, you had to go there and spend two nights. It was like a weekend away. That was not cute.

The bathrooms alone were like not i took a shower from a bag and a tree so i don't know it's like what it was like on a regular basis but still a great education kudos we made it through so we're i'm all right crazy all right uh i'm gonna say no chrissy what do you i'm gonna say no too he's probably probably too respectful for that. Also, no judgment. Not like me. You want me to answer? Yes, please.

The answer is no. I haven't. I have kissed somebody on a plane. Okay, good for you. What is the craziest place you've had sex? I don't think I'm into like public sex, but like on the beach is like a weird, like a private beach.

Okay, great. That's like the weirdest thing. Yeah, but like you gotta be careful. There's a lot of like, there's a lot of care and attention that has to go into that. And you know what? You're not into having people watch you have sex great no question number two has been flossed in the last 24 hours

absolutely his dad's a dentist yeah look at those teeth my brother's a dentist. He's like, ah, sometimes I floss. You have an answer? Yeah. I've flossed twice in the last 24 hours. Twice? My God. Question number three. Has Ben hooked up with someone older than 40?

How old are you, Ben? I'm 30 years old. Yeah, has Ben hooked up with someone older than 40? And by hooked up, I'm going to say like a sexy makeout. He's a tough one. He's a trainer.

He meets older women. He fails, maybe. I want to say yes i'm gonna stick with yes but i'm not sold again that whole like dirty dancing teaching the dancers like with the money vibe i don't know i'm gonna say i'm gonna say no but i would love that journey for you. You good? Am I ready? Yeah. No. I don't think I've ever hooked up with an older woman ever.

Ever? Like older than you? No. Wow. Like maybe like I didn't know she was a year older than me, like type of thing. Give it a shot, man. It's an experience. Wow. We're learning so much about

me right now yeah i didn't even realize that until right now i don't think i've ever been an older woman cue the older women yeah all right dms are a sliding does ben prefer almond milk over regular milk what is ben's favorite kind of milk uh i'm a i'm a traditionalist i know it's not the healthiest so i'm gonna drink milk i'm just gonna fucking drink wisconsin wisconsin would be in an uproar if you said anything other than i try not to drink a lot of dairy but like fuck it like know. And thankfully, I am not lactose intolerant. But I don't think, Ben, I think you drink anything but regular milk. I would agree.

He looks like an oat milk guy. Yeah. He's got like oat milk written all over him. God, I don't know if that's like the worst thing you've ever said. I'm just kidding. So I prefer animal milk i prefer cow milk but i have a lactose intolerant thing that makes me sick so i drink almond milk i just drink lactate do you really it makes yeah but like it's i don't know like it's like diet milk. I don't know. It just tastes just a little bit off.

I'm not into it. Okay, we got a couple like, are you smarter than a fifth grader questions coming up here, Ben. Can Ben name all the oceans? I'm going to say yes. There's seven of them. There's seven of them. Well, that's more than I knew, so I'm going say seven of them there's seven of them or there's seven that's more than I knew so I'm gonna go yeah there's seven other seven

continents I don't know if there's seven oceans Wow I'm questioning myself all right I'm gonna say yes we'll figure it out together but I'm gonna say yes to go ahead, Ben, list them up. Atlantic Pacific, Indian. Um, I think there's only four. Is there four? Yeah. The seven cars.

One. There's something that there's an, at least one more that I can't remember. And I didn't get it. I didn't get it. Antarctic. Arctic ocean. Yeah. I didn't get it. Antarctic? Antarctic. It's the Arctic Ocean. Yeah.

So Pacific, Pacific Indian, Atlantic, Atlantic, and Antarctic. Like there's a lot of seas, but I don't think, I think those are the only oceans.

Yeah. Right? So I guess the answer is no, I can't do it. Okay. Well, you weren't in the Navy, so that's fine.

I wasn't. Well, the list on Google is very extensive. Wait, of oceans or seas? Yes. There's also Southern Ocean? What's the Southern Ocean? I didn't learn that in school. Pacific,

Indian, Atlantic, Arctic, Southern. The most insane part about that card is that it didn't tell you what the oceans are. They just assume you have Google. They just assume you have google has ben ever bought a pregnancy test for a girlfriend because you guys were scared uh yes no no i'm gonna say no and again i mean for me like shit you know i've done it a bunch of times, and usually it's for, like, we'd have no reason to be scared. We were just scared.

So we're like, let's – I was supposed to get my period in a week. We should get a pregnancy test, you know? Yeah. I'm going to say yes. I feel like every guy has been neurotic enough to, like, be like, let's just get it out of the way. Yes.

I've purchased several pregnancy plans. Does Ben know the Pythagorean Theorem? I'm going to say by the look on your face, no. Yeah, I agree. A squared plus B squared equals c squared yes

shut the front door out of nowhere do you know the quadratic equation dude no it's a harder one I'm an English guy the fact that I pulled that one out of my

ass is impressive that's what it my ass is pretty impressive. That's what it is, Ben. That was impressive. The sun's rising right in my eyes. Yeah. And final question. Has Ben slept naked in the past week?

Yes. I mean, when does Ben not sleep naked? Ben should be sleeping naked all the time. If he hasn't. I mean, after watching that art episode. Yeah. I don't know. I think Ben wears drawers.

I'm going to say no. Go ahead. I'm going to say no. Go ahead. I'm going to say he has. I have slept naked in the last week. I did wear clothes last night, though. See? I'm just going to go with the feeling. So this is weird.

I like a hoodie. I like to wear a hoodie when I sleep and wear the thing over my head. But with no pants? Sometimes. Yeah. It's called shirt talking, my head sometimes yeah it's called shirt talking I think that's super weird I also find it to be there nothing shows the differences between a man and a woman than how good a woman looks with just a t-shirt on or a hoodie right nothing else versus how bad a man looks you've never seen me you've never seen me in just a t-shirt do you think i would find

i would accept the possibility you could turn me ben but you said it was moving during that kiss with tasha you might be moving yeah, it was just a hot scene, man. I can't deny the hotness of that moment. Ben, I can't thank you enough. I really appreciate it. Thanks for being so honest and vulnerable on the show and having this conversation with us.

We're so happy that you feel overall really positive about your experience. Thank you. And as a member of the runner-up club i just want to say welcome and and um thanks uh and if and i'm serious i would really love for you to give me i'm looking for some workouts um i do the same thing over and over and i need to i need to step up my game i'm like i'm i'm I've been plateauing on this like not out of shape but not really in shape body for the past six months,

and I could really use your help. So hopefully we can do that stuff sooner than later. We interviewed somebody who you train, and they were like, he's amazing. Allie Webb? Yeah. She's the bomb. She came up to me and she goes, do you know this guy named Nick? He's amazing. Ali Webb. Yeah. He's the bomb. Yeah. She came up to me and she goes,

she goes, do you know this guy named Nick? And I was like, like with no context. And I was like, I don't, I, maybe I know a Nick.

And she goes, he has a podcast. Nick, Nick. I was like, Oh, Nick. Yeah.

I know who that is. Yes. And she was like, yeah, I went on there and I was like, Oh, okay. And so we like talked about it and she goes he was really nice

I told him you were really nice and then like that was the extent of it I was like damn what did she say about me no she said you were great she had a great time uh we'll look uh just to tease Ali Webb uh Shark Tank guest in the new year yeah serial entrepreneur

she's a superstar yeah we have a fun conversation conversation with her coming up shortly uh thanks for plugging that ben make sure to uh check out ben's journey on instagram um wish ben all the luck ladies he probably won't be checking his dms but uh maybe but maybe ben i mean this don't tease the audience um i don't but uh have a bunch of fun enjoy this ben uh enjoy the ride uh all the best to you and i'm sure we will talk soon as always guys i do appreciate you listening Be sure to if you haven't yet Go check out our

Ask Nick episode That came out Monday If you love listening To people tell their dating stories And hearing some Great advice check out our Ask Nick episodes Kazzy David and I break down

The finale as long as the last two episodes, uh, of the, the season that just dropped a few hours ago. Check that out as well. Subscribe right as five stars, you know, the drill can't thank you enough for listening. Uh, we will see you next week. Uh, and we interview our boy Brendan we love Brendan I owe Brendan an apology I've been calling him Brandon or burned on for me it's like if I don't

think of I know it's Valentine's Day but if I don't enunciate it just sounds like Valentine's see I was saying Valentine's there but I didn't think about it so that's how that's that's my excuse for Brandon. He's the sweetest boy. He is. So we will

have Brandon on next week. Look out for that. Merry Christmas to you all. What did I say, Brandon? You said it wrong again. It's Valentine's. It's not, I know his name. I don't. You said, I know I'm saying it wrong and proceeded to say it

three times wrong it's Brandon right Brandon yeah whatever we'll get to it and on that note

Merry Christmas guys happy holidays on that note we will see you on Monday And on that note, Merry Christmas, guys. Happy holidays. On that note. We will see you on Monday.