The Viall Files - E220 Reinventing Yourself With Alli Webb

Episode Date: January 6, 2021

Today on Viall Files we are joined by NYT-bestselling author, former SharkTank judge and co-founder of DryBar, Alli Webb. Nick speaks with Alli about divorce, moving on, being a woman entrepreneur and most importantly finding the strength in yourself to move on and lead with your passion to find the happiness you deserve.  “ I wanted us both to just get to something else we were not able to achieve in our marriage. “ Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix http://www.helixsleep.com/VIALL for up to $200 off and 2 free pillows FitTrack: http://www.getfittrack.com/VIALL to save 50% plus get an additional 10% off your order!  Beachbody: Text VIALL to 303030 to get a special free trial, no obligation membership.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @alliwebb See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is going on everybody? Welcome to the Vile Files. I am your host, Nick, joined by Chrissy. If you're not following the Vile Files on Instagram, go ahead and give us a follow. We'll be doing some cool things on there. Be sure to check that out, as well as some fun interactive things with our Ask Nick episodes.

Oh, what a great episode. Allie Webb joins us. Allie Webb, for those of you who don't know, is a very successful and wonderful businesswoman. She's founder of Drybar, also a shark from time to time. A guest shark on Shark Tank. And we talk a lot about women in the workforce,

second chances, dating, divorce, having a relationship with... Working with someone you're married to, yeah. Working with someone you're married to. Actually, a lot of fun. A lot of fun episode. Also, she is one of Ben's clients. Ben from Tasha's Season.

So, I think that's it. Go ahead, give us a call. Allie, thanks for joining. Thanks for having me. So nice to have you on. For starters, I just want to tell you that I've been to one of your dry bars. You mentioned that you have a dry bar story. Well, I was in New York, and I was at a hotel and I was-

Parker Meridian? I don't remember. I was like by the water. I don't know where I was. That's a little vague. I don't know. Yeah, that's a little vague. But I mean, the only hotel that we're in in New York City is the Parker Meridian.

It wasn't in a hotel. Oh, you were just in New York. I needed hairspray for some reason. Were you at like like lower east like ludlow because we're right across from that i mean we have like 15 or 20 locations in new york okay yeah so i was at one of them okay anyways i i walked in for hairspray i went into a bar i google no it's funny because i'm like hey i need some hairspray and you know obviously if you have never been to a dry bar sometimes usually not but for whatever reason i don't remember why

i required hairspray that day i have curly hair i think maybe i wanted to straighten it a little bit and anyways that's the whole reason dry bar exists by the way because i have curly hair and wanted it straight is that why yeah i mean it's a longer story but yes how fortuitous that i needed to keep my hair straight so i found a dry bar found me really i and i walked in they were their customer service was fantastic but i was like i just need some hairspray they're like well fine but let us did you get like your hair washed and blown out no oh that would have been an even better story that would have yeah if i like got because i mean guys do go in not a lot i mean i feel like it's like it is more like new york or like west hollywood where we have guys that come in who have longer hair and want it blown out because you know if like for example if your hair was long you might want it blown straight since it's curly how'd you

get the idea for dry bar well because i mean i've been i've been a professional hairstylist for i don't even know how many years now 20 years but okay yeah well i started when i was like in my early 20s i'm in my mid 40s doing hair yeah because well i grew up in south florida and though if you've ever lived in south if you've ever been to florida it's very very humid and it's terrible for your hair. Yes. My hair was like curly, frizzy hair. And I hated it as a kid. And I couldn't like manage it. And it just was always this thing that bugged me. Same. Yeah.

Is it human in Wisconsin? In the summer, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it was just this thing that always bugged me. And like, you know, long, very long story short, and just not knowing what I wanted to do with my life. And, you know, I always just had this like there was this like seed I think planted to me when I was a kid that I just was so envious of how you know I'm really dating myself but like

the Christy Brinkley's and Cindy Cropper do you even know who those people are I don't know I'm just I don't know how old you are um you know I'm old enough an appropriate age they had like this beautiful bouncy hair and and truly as a kid i was like how in the world did they get their hair to look like that my hair doesn't look like that and i can't figure out how to get it to look like that and it was just always this thing that i was like personally obsessed with with you know fast forward to all these years later and you know i went to college for like a second i didn't college wasn't for me and then i moved to new york city and I lived in New York and thought I wanted to work in fashion. And, and I did that for a while. And then that didn't work out, you know, like I

wanted it to, and, or I just realized that wasn't what I wanted to do. And so I went to beauty school in my like early twenties and like completely fell in love with it and learned how to blow out my own hair and just loved everything about the industry and, you know, proceeded to work in salons and do hair for a long time until I met my now ex-husband in New York City. And then we moved to LA. We had two kids. I have two boys who are now 13 and 15. And I was a stay-at-home mom for about five years. And then after being a stay-at-home mom for about five years. And then after being a stay-at-home mom for about five years, I was like, I feel like I'm going to lose my mind. I need to get out there and do other things.

And so I started a mobile blow-dry business. And that was probably in 2008, 2009. A mobile blow-dry business. Yeah, so I was basically like running around LA blow-drying all my mommy friends. Because at that point, I had just moved from New York. And I only really was like, I was in like the mom the LA mommy culture because I had babies and that that's how I made all my friends I've dabbled in the mommy LA culture I have some there's so many ways to take that sentence right now I'm like um I uh yeah no I've had friends

who are in the LA mommy world And some of them are Bachelor fans So I've been introduced to many moms It's funny, I don't know how much you like talking about the Bachelor world But I, ironic Well, it's funny because this interview popped up for me And then yesterday on my podcast, Raising the Bar We interviewed Dale Moss Who's on the seasons of Bachelorette It's funny because this interview popped up for me. And then yesterday, on my podcast, Raising the Bar,

we interviewed Dale Moss, who's on the season's Bachelorette. And my trainer is Ben Smith, who is on the show right now as a bachelor. And I'm like, there's so much. Ben's your trainer. Yeah, and my friend. Interesting. I know, he's so cute. But it's just like the bachelor universe is like, it's weird. Consuming you you're gonna go you know sit down with nick and i was like nick the bachelor guy and

it's like not that you're you're so much more than that please keep talking no i'm kidding stop talking now i'm just saying it's like you know know, there must be something in there. Do you have a Ben story? Ben Smith? Yeah. Well, just that I started. Tea, dirt, whatever? No, I don't really. I just my a girl that I was working with who's like a nutritionist, like coach kind of thing, you know, wanted to get me started, like starting on a workout routine and introduced. I started me at this place called Deuce, which is a gym, like a local West Hollywood gym.

But they're not open right now, obviously, because of COVID. So they've been training outside at Pan Pacific Park. And so Ben is one of the guys who does all the training. So I've been doing that for the last three months. And then he was like, oh, by the way, I'm on The Bachelorette this season. I'm like, oh, no shit. You know, I should go watch that so I can see you. I haven't really watched it.

He's doing quite well. He is doing well. Yeah. He is doing well. He really dropped some stuff. Very vulnerable that Ben. In He is doing well. Yeah. He is doing well. Yeah. He really dropped some stuff. Very vulnerable that Ben. In the last few weeks.

Yeah. No, it's great. I'm very proud of him. It's, I think he, he's doing really well. So, yeah. So, that's it. I don't really have any dirt on Ben. That's fine.

We like Ben. I mean, not that we want any stories, like anecdotal. No, he's just like a really nice guy. You know, I mean. Yeah, the person, Ben. Not, you know, because I'm sure we get to know the reality TV. Well, I mean, I've only watched. I mean, I've really just watched, you know, the small little snippets of him on TV.

But he's just he's really sweet. And like he really loves what he does with like training people. And yeah, super, super personal, easy to talk to. Like I think a lot of what you see on TV is like really kind of how he is in real life. Yeah. So we're seeing what you see is what you get. What we're seeing is the person that he is. And I even said to him after I saw the episode where he talks about the suicide and all that.

I was like, it was so sweet. And like just how you told me the story it wasn't like it was not like for tv version you know so yeah he's a great guy back to uh back to me mobile blow drying uh behind that in the mommy the mommy world yeah so you know i was like really just looking for something to do to get out of the house and do something for myself i you know you know, I thought I always wanted to, I thought I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and just stay with the kids. And then, like I said, after five years of that, I just got the itch to do something for myself. So I posted on like all these mommy blogs and whatever that I was going to, you know, come to your house and blow dry your hair for $40 while your baby's sleeping. Like,

that was like the big business plan. And sure enough, women started calling me and- But you were the one doing it. I was the one doing it. And I, you know, I wanted to do it. It was like a way, you know, to get out of the house for a couple hours and make some extra cash. And, you know, between gas and driving around LA,

I'm not sure I actually made any money, but it was perfect for me at the time because it got me like, you know, doing my own thing and talking to women and not just talking to my children and being at the park all day so anyways it was during that time that I realized like there's a pretty big hole in the marketplace and there's no place like dry bar which obviously didn't exist then or anything like it where you can go in for a great blowout at an affordable

price you know in a beautiful setting it just there was nothing like it and I thought surely there was enough women who lived in LA who I you you know, I got really busy really fast. And I was like, you know, I could only handle so many blowouts a day because I still had to go pick up my kids and whatever. So I was like, there must be like an opportunity here to have like a brick and mortar instead of me running around town, going to women's homes, have them start coming to me. And so that's what, you know, I kind of set out to do. And I got my ex-husband who's like a creative genius. He's worked in advertising, big advertising agencies his whole life. And my brother, who's like kind of the business side of things. And I, and they're both bald too, by the way, ironically. And I got them both involved and

said, Hey, I want to, you know, turn my mobile business into a brick and mortar. Will you help me? And, and they were all in. And so, you know, the rest is kind of history. Very cool. We have a lot of moms and and and wives who listen to the show. And we often get people who ask questions around reinventing themselves, overcoming adversity, things like that. I find that so many people, men or women, once they get into their 20s, especially if you're like from like the Midwest or like the South, or there's this idea that like once you're 20 and then you like find love and you have a kid that like that's your life.

Yeah. And no matter what like yeah and and it's truly kind of scary to reinvent yourself to take a risk to to to realize that you will you have so so much more life hopefully yeah to live like what advice or what was it for you that gave you kind of that courage to try to do this? I mean, I know you mentioned like you got a little antsy and you were kind of tired of maybe just going to the park. But a lot of people feel that way. But don't take the plunge or doubt their ability to do it. You know, what were some of the things that you found that helped you motivate you?

Or were you scared or were you just like, I'm just going to do this? Well, my parents were entrepreneurs, so I grew up in a very like entrepreneurial environment. And I, you know, for me, it's like I've always been a kind of a risk taker and follow like what feels right. And, you know, I kind of glossed over. But as you know, as I was growing up in my early 20s, I moved around a lot. I was, you know, a hairstylist. I owned my brother and I. When I was living in New York, I was working for a fashion designer.

And then we moved back to South Florida and opened up a couple of stores there. And then, you know, and that's kind of when I made the decision to go to beauty school. And even after working in the hair industry for years, and I pivoted again and ended up taking a job in PR. This was all when I was still in New York, just because for me, I've always been very like follow what like kind of gets me excited to get out of bed in the morning, what kind of lights me up. And so, you know, I think this dry bar thing and, you know,

the reason I started the mobile business was because I wasn't, to your point, feeling fulfilled. I got married. I had babies and I thought that's what I wanted my life to be. And then I realized that it wasn't what I wanted my life to be entirely. So I, you know, searched for something else. And I was like, hey, this is, and that's where I think the entrepreneurial spirit comes in with my parents, you know, having their own business. It's like, for me, it's like, it wasn't, I was like, oh, I'm just going to do this thing and start this business. And, you know, not, I didn't think much about it. And it was just like a means to,

you know, to, to fill this like itch that I had or scratch this itch that I had. And, and I think that, you know, that's kind of what has always guided me is this like, you know, not allowing myself to do something that like people think I should be doing, you know, to really do what I want to do. And, and for me, it was like, you know, starting the mobile business was, was something I wanted to do for myself. And then realizing there was this opportunity for Drybar was just like, that felt like what was next. And I think I've always kind of been guided by that. I need to kind of do what I really love to do.

And I think a lot of people, you know, get really kind of bogged down in this like, oh, you know, I can't do this because this isn't like what I'm supposed to be doing. And there's this weird, you know, I think it's also too like, you know, can't do this because this isn't like what I'm supposed to be doing and there's this weird you know I think it's also too like you know a lot I hear from a lot of women who want to start their own business but they have a pretty good job and they're making pretty decent money but they're like but this is not my real passion this is not what I want to be doing but I don't want to leave all this money and I you know so it's like for me I've always just like I said been really like driven and like led by my passion and what I want to do. And that's kind of the best advice I give people is like you got to just follow.

You know, I really believe in following like what makes you feel excited because life is short, you know. And it's like to be doing something that you're not all in on is like. Nothing like sleeping on the most comfortable mattress in the world, like Helix Sleep. And the best thing about having Helix Sleep is how easy it was to get the mattress that was perfect for me. I did that by taking their online quiz

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Get Fittrack dot com slash viall. I just always find it fascinating that for whatever reason, we've decided we're supposed to figure out the rest of our lives. I know. And the first third of our life. Well, I mean, and for me, it's also like, you know, I got divorced over two years ago, but I was married for 16 years. And it's like the person I was when I met my ex-husband when I was like 25 is very, very different than the person I became at, you know, 30 and 35 and 40. And it was like,

it's to your point, you're a, you, you change and evolve so much from your twenties to your thirties, your forties, you know, and our, you know,

my, my marriage and that relationship just didn't make it through. I changed a ton, you know, and what I wanted when I was in my twenties, compared to what I wanted in my 30s and my 40s is very very different so I agree yeah so in in your ex-husband helped you start dry bar yes how like that must have been a challenge to face that yeah kind of realization um

you have kids you had a business together like how did you come to that determination i i asked because again we have a lot of people who listen to the show who sure that fear of moving on how to let go how do you um yeah kind of come to those decisions and make it and you know find the happiness that you felt maybe deep down that you deserved and nothing against your husband or the relationship. It just maybe wasn't as nurturing for the both of you anymore. Well, I mean, I think that a lot of people end up staying in unhappy marriages because of a lot of reasons, you know, they're scared to leave and it is like that wasn't probably the hardest decision I've ever made in my life. Like that wasn't probably the hardest decision I've ever made in my life.

You know, but I felt like it just, it wasn't, it wasn't like the right thing for us anymore. And, you know, and it took a lot of courage, I guess is the best way to put it, you know, to decide to, to end the marriage. And I think, you know, like I said, a lot of women get stuck in this, like, what will my life look like with, without this marriage, without this, you know, my partner and, you know, and I'm, you know and they're like, I'm really unhappy. I'm thinking about leaving my husband. Like, can you give me some advice? And I'm like, shit, no, I don't know what to tell you. Like, it's like I did what was right for me. And I think that you have to come to that yourself and you have to, you know, figure out it's an incredibly tough road.

And it was probably that first year after my divorce was like the most hellish year of my life I mean it was it was horrific and I you know and it's but on the other side I'm much much much happier now than I've ever been in my life you know I didn't know if that was gonna happen or not it was like it was such a it was such a leap of faith to decide to do that but I just knew deep down I wasn't happy. I knew he wasn't happy. And I also felt like that like unhappiness that we were generating was really bad for our children. As hard as the divorce was on our kids because it was hard for them. I mean, you know, they were old enough to understand it completely. You know, it was like I just I want my kids to

grow up seeing their mom and dad in love and happy. And what that looks like or what we were showing them was like, even my kids say now like, oh, it's so good that you and dad got divorced. You guys fought all the time, you know? And I was like, we did? I didn't really think we fought all the time. We just weren't that happy, you know? Because we were so distracted with running the business.

Yeah, kids are intuitive and they feel the energy. So intuitive. And so I think I got to the point where I was like, I don't think this is right for, this is good or right or healthy for any of us. And I think that I need to like take this leap of faith. And, you know,

and had I, I mean, had I known what was on the other side, I don't know if I, I mean, I would have, I still would have. I just don't, I got so knocked.

Right on the other side. Right on the other side. I mean, I got knocked so on my ass. You can't worry about that. It's funny. You said, I don't want to advocate for divorce. And I was thinking to myself, do I advocate for divorce often on this show?

But I don't. What I do, I think a lot, a big part of what we advocate for on this show is to look past kind of the cultural shames and judgments that come with certain things in life like divorce, right? Because. Yeah. I mean, I did not want i mean talk about shame i was like i do not want to be a divorced person i don't want that like label

i felt like very like the religious kind of like i care about my very catholic family there i don't think i don't think there's any like religion that is like divorce option one you know like go for it it's cool you know like it's there's always this there's a shame there's a stigma and a stigma yeah and i'm just a big advocate of whatever whether it's divorce is divorce is one of those things but just the shame and guilt of doing something to your point that is scary uh is you know in some regards self-serving but also could be beneficial for your circle around you. Yeah. And ignorance is sometimes bliss.

I wonder if you would agree. Because like I talk about. That's like my tagline in life. I mean, I think about, I did a podcast, The Bright Side. I was a guest. I don't think it's, well, I don't know if it'll come out by the time this comes out. I don't know if I can know timing.

But my point was like she was asking about like me moving to L.A. and I was working at Salesforce and I had a very like established life. I mean, I had the six figure job, the career path. I liked the job, you know, and like the life happened. But if someone would have like said, OK, fine, you're going to move to L.A. and see what you can make of it. This is actually what's going to happen. Yeah. And laid it out. And they're like, you're going to move to LA and see what you can make of it. This is actually what's going to happen. Yeah. And lay it out. And they're like, you know what? I'm good. I'm

going to cut like, but not knowing enough allowed me to take that risk. And there's something to be said about that because in the short term, it is uncomfortable and scary. And you're just like, what the fuck did I do? Yeah so uncomfortable and scary i mean change you know it sounds so cliche but change is always uncomfortable and scary and so people stay away people don't like change historically you know but it's like it's like the promise of what's on the other side and i think for me i felt like you know with all due respect to my ex-husband and i have a great relationship with him now. It didn't happen right away, but now we're on really good terms. But like, I just was like, this is, this can't be it for us, for us separately. Like I, you know, and while there

was like a lot of turmoil and it was hard at first, he, he, you know, he also knew that it was the right thing. And we, you know, we just had some things that we couldn't, you know, overcome. And it's like, you know you know you just you want to be able to I wanted us both to be able to like get to something else because that we weren't able to you know achieve in our marriage and you know it's just no it makes a lot of sense what are what is something that um you know whether it's divorce or even a breakup yeah or or I guess whatever it is what what was it that allowed you to persevere through those uncomfortable times because a lot of people

will be like i'm gonna do this and then all of a sudden back out like it falls to shit the first you know the first thing that happens is that it gets harder not easier you're like oh i made a mistake yeah i i regret you know and they they run back to whatever it was that they were unhappy with, but was also comfortable. Even if that comfort zone was still like unhappy and tumultuous. Like what was it that caused you to persevere? Well, I mean, I think I've always been very, very,

you know, I know exactly what I want. I know, you know, and I'm pretty decisive on the decisions I make. And I'm not like a much, you know, go back to things. I'm a pretty like, this is what, this is my decision. And, and sure, there were moments in, I mean, there was a lot of times when after my divorce that I was like, oh man, like this is, yikes, you know, where I was so depressed. And I had never, I've always been like a pretty like

happy-go-lucky person and I went through like, you know, I think it was like situational depression when I was, you know, to your point, like,

my life as I knew it was, was just so different and this, I mean, it was like, I know this sounds a little woo-woo, but I was doing a show and I met this guy who had written a book called like, I can't, I think, I know this sounds a little woo-woo, but I was doing a show and I met this guy

who had written a book called like, I can't, I think, I can't remember. Energy Heals, Energy Heals. I think that's the name of the book. And he was like- So Ella. I know, it's so Ella. And he was like, I was on the show doing an interview

and then he was on after me and he got, and he was talking about this. And at this point in my life, I was like, if you would have met me two years point in my life I was like if you if you would have met me two years ago I probably would have like told you like like a lot of information you didn't want to hear and I was very like I would cry all the time you know I like could barely get my shit together enough to do this show but I did the show and I talked to this guy after because I was so I was so interested in what he was saying and I had done I also did like all the stuff after

my divorce like I went to like this place called on-site which is like an intense intense therapy center like outside Nashville where like they take your phone and you're like in therapy all day I mean just and I did all the stuff and it's like going on the bachelor yeah like transcendental meditation and all these things anyways I meet this guy and he says to me, and I had spent like probably six months doing like intense, like I was going to therapy twice a week. I was doing all this shit. And he said to me,

your husband held an energy in your life that nobody holds anymore. And I was like, oh my God, that was it. What does that mean? Well, he said, because people would say to me, like you're grieving. You're grieving the loss of your marriage. And I was like, I am not grieving.

Nobody died. Like that's stupid. I didn't like I couldn't hear that you know I was like he's alive I'm alive nobody nobody died you know but and I was like and I wanted the divorce like I was like I don't I don't understand this like I'm supposed to be like happy and my big plan was like I was gonna get divorced and I was gonna be dating and I was gonna have this super fun life and that didn't happen and then I was like what the fuck is going on and then when you know I went gone through therapy and I was coming through it but this guy said that and you know it was like because I had this partner this person I had been with for 16 years it's like 16 years is a long time it's a lot of time and so I can't do anything for three weeks i know i mean it's like it's a long time so

now i'd have this person that even though i wasn't in love with anymore that i was like i would talk to every day and i would bounce ideas off of and we would raise the children together and all the things and now it's like oh now you don't have any of that like you know we weren't talking really and you have to like figure out all the kid decisions about yourself you're now i'm now in a new house by myself and it's like everything, everything was like by myself. And I was like, you know, it was very fucking lonely. Hey, and one more useful thing that we have to help you meet your fitness goals. Beachbody on demand offers over 1,500 at home workouts plus nutrition plans. So no matter what your goals are, they have a program that'll help you build and keep healthy habits. This is the company behind

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Maybe there was a lot missing in the relationship, but there was still a mutual respect. And we were very good friends. And even now. So you could fight, but you could be like hey i still want to ask your opinion and your question and now as a divorced couple that was like there's boundaries that you had to start establishing tons of boundaries it's like i couldn't and in and i you know as you come out of a divorce you're kind it's kind of this like foggy like what can you ask and what can you talk about what can't you and you know in the beginning cam is my ex-husband he was

like i i sometimes would talk to him about the kid kids stuff or whatever and he's like i don't know you're on your own and i'm like what because but that is a break that i needed we did need to establish those boundaries so i don't know how other people was that like a co-parenting decision i don't know i don't have kids i don't know how that works now we're you know we're really great and like the rules are the same at both houses and we talk all the time and things are great but in those first few months you know we weren't really talking to each other so we weren't parenting together which wasn't great for anybody i mean those those few first few months were like the wild wild west and it in a terrible way from like the guys were just mad at each other we were just not talking and so like the kids could play

them like us off each other like there was like i what i was doing what he was doing was different and like i don't i don't know that there's like i i wish i wish we had done the beginning differently it was funny when one time i was we we were divorced right we were separated and i was in new york for work and i was having just like a really bad day and I actually called Cam like crying and was like I just feel so lost and alone and I don't know you know I was just really overwhelmed and he had the exact moment I called him he was listening to the the Gwyneth Paltrow podcast where she's talking about her divorce from Chris Martin and how I actually haven't even listened to this which I can't believe but how they really tried to like stay friends and for the kids and whatever.

And he was like, you know, I do think that we need to kind of keep it together. And he was like very comforting to me in that moment. And that, you know, and so like there was fits and starts. And like sometimes it was like that and sometimes it wasn't. But, you know, we figured it out and we're, you know, we're in a good place. Like I'm happy to report we were all together for Thanksgiving. You know, my ex-husband, his new girlfriend. I live with my new boyfriend, his ex-wife.

Everyone gets along. Well, I mean, everyone is together. It's fine. It's fine. And it was really for the kids. We're like, we want the kids and everybody to be together. And it feels like this should be a family thing. And I really facilitated that. I invited invited cam i invited my boyfriend's ex i was like i think we should all

be together you know i think that's what it should look like it's gonna be uncomfortable you even had your boyfriend's ex come you expanded the awkwardness i did well done wow okay did you find that was therapeutic like at what point you're like all right it's too much i mean it's like it's a lot and it's like it is a very i mean navigating you know a relationship with my boyfriend's ex-wife is is really challenging and um you know navigating all of those relationships is really tough because they're not like any relationship you've ever known before like it's not like a like his ex-wife is not like a friend like a normal-wife is not like a friend, like a normal friend would be to me. Like, but I want us to be friends, but I don't really,

it's an odd thing. And same with his, with Cam's girlfriend. It's just a weird, I'm still figuring that out. It's kind of like, it's, it's like sub siblings without the unconditional love. Kind of. Yeah. I mean, like, but I'll tell you what's really interesting and fascinating to me about it is like all the kids so my boys are 13 and 15 and my boyfriend's kids are uh six and uh four they all are like thick as thieves they love each other they're like super comfortable together it's like it's great but it's like a forced friendship. But there's no ego there, I'm guessing. But not for the kids. For the kids, it's like it took a little time,

but they're like, they genuinely all really like each other. And there's no awkwardness with them. They're like, oh, yeah, that's my- I'm guessing because there's no ego. Yeah, probably. But for the exes, there's got to be a forced, it's like a forced friendship. Yes.

Not only that, but there's- The exes, yes, I agree. But also with the exes, you're mature. You get it. We're doing this for the forced friendship. Yes. Not only that, but the X's. Yes. Yes. But also with the X's, like you're like mature, like you get it. We're doing this for the greater good. Exactly. But there's still ego. There is. Yeah.

You know, and it's kind of like. I know it goes. Am I still better than her? You know, like am I. The comparison game is brutal. Yeah. You can't get into that. You know, your ego checks in.

It's like, I'm better, right? Like I'm better. Like you're fine. You're great. I like in. It's like, I'm better, right? Like, I'm better. Like, you're fine. You're great. Like, amazing. You're like, oh, I love your hair, but I'm better. And meanwhile, that other person is probably like, I'm better than this bitch. Yeah.

I mean, it's uncomfortable. You said it, not me. Good for you for doing it. Yeah. You know, I feel like, and we're going to all be together on Christmas too. So we'll see how that goes. That's great. Sounds fun. But you are now you you you have a boyfriend. I do. And it's going well. Yeah. We've been together over a year.

And, you know, I think because of the craziness of COVID and like, you know, when everybody went into lockdown, we were about, I don't know, five months or so into our relationship and we went fast and we're also like in our 40s and like you know it's like it's gonna be or it's not gonna be kind of thing and we were very like you know fell in love super fast and um and then with covid we were like you know we're gonna be we're kind of locked down we might as well be locked down together and you went for it. We went for it. And we didn't officially move in then, but over the next few months, we were basically living together. And then he officially gave up his place

and we moved in together. And then we recently just bought a place in West Hollywood together. And so I'm actually just curious, because Drybar started with your ex-husband. Yes. What's the have you been able to like draw those clear like you still work with your does he still involved?

Yeah, I do. I mean, we're not I'm not involved in like the day to day like I used to be and I haven't been for a couple of years. And Cam is has always done the creative work for Drybar. But in the last I think it was like maybe two or three years ago, that Cam kind of branched out into his, start his own agency. So he now does all the creative work for Drybar, but doesn't work in-house at Drybar.

And like we started another company called Squeeze, which is this massage concept where it's also a brick and mortar and the same founding team as Drybar, but it's an app-based. Well, everything is app-based about it, but it's an actual brick and mortar and the same founding team is dry bar but it's it's an app based well the everything is app based about it but it's an actual brick and mortar um so he that's a client so now he takes on outside clients but his like main biggest client is dry bar so um yes there's a lot of overlap still like i do all of our product videos and you know there's like a handful of things that i'm still pretty involved in that overlap with what he and his team does. So, you know, initially, like I was saying, the early days were tough.

So he wouldn't, he'd have, he has a big enough team where he didn't have to actually show up to, he wouldn't show up to things like I was doing because we weren't like ready to be in a room together. But over time that changed and now we do things together all the time. Cam and Adrian, Adrian is my boyfriend now like they they like each other and they have a good nice relationship too so yeah my i've uh my ex-girlfriend of years ago uh i her now husband like i've we were we we were in the same friend group so So like there was never like a, like some of my exes like that, I don't know where they are.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. But like with my last ex from years ago, like I was able to meet her ex and it wasn't because we had kids or anything. It was just because we had mutual friends. It was like, okay, I'm going to meet your ex. And I don't know.

I was like, yeah, you're pretty cool. We'd probably be friends. Yeah, that's kind of how they are. You know, they genuinely seem to like each other. You know, I mean, there is that like awkwardness because, you know, of me. But there is. Way to ruin it. Yeah.

I know. Sorry. They do like each other and it does, you know, work. And, you know, I remember my son, my older son, when I first started dating Adrian, he said something to Cam like, aren't you mad? You know, this is when it was new. And he was like, aren't you mad, dad, that there's like another man that like is around your kids or something like that? Your son.

My son, my 15-year-old. And Cam's response was no. Like I think Adrian's really great. And I think, you know, I really like that you have another like strong man in your life. And I think my, I mean, I was like, holy shit. Very mature. Very amazing. And, and my, it was so great for my son, you know, to hear that from his dad.

And I think it like gave him permission to be like, okay, I can like, I can accept this guy and let him in. And, and, and my kids adore Adrian, you know, and it's, and it's, it's not a competition. They love their dad too, but they, you know, they give him different things. Big, big, big shout out to your ex, your ex-husband for doing that. That's probably, what a competition. They love their dad too, but they give him different things. Big shout out to your ex-husband for doing that. That's probably what a gift he gave. Yeah, what a gift. Yes.

What was it about Adrian that for someone who was married for so long, obviously ex-relationships are fantastic because hopefully we're supposed to like learn about what we liked and didn't like and then apply it to like fighting, you know, future stuff. Were you able to do that? And what were some of the biggest things for yourself that, you know, you were able to like, and you kind of said like, well, you know, you're older. So like you figure out what you like and don't like easier. Right. And so if you're lucky enough to meet someone who fits then you feel more comfortable saying this is what I want to do yeah it's a little different than when you're younger you're just like well I love you yeah

so but I don't know if you're like right forever exactly figure it out later yeah yeah well you don't know who you are I think when you're in your 20s and you don't realize that you're going to change so much um and yeah I mean I think that that I learned a lot about what I, you know, the kind of the mistakes that I made in the marriage and the things that I didn't, you know, I was like a big avoider, I think, in my marriage. You know, we were having issues and I think we both were avoiding a lot of the things. And like I said before, like dry bar became this big distraction and this thing that we focus, and our kids, you know, it was like dry bar and the kids, it was like our main focus. And we didn't focus so much on our relationship, you know, to really

kind of oversimplify it. But, you know, now I'm, I think I'm a very different person having gone through the divorce. And I think I softened as a person a lot because of the divorce, you know, it was like extremely humbling and like I said I went through like this crazy depression and you know and I and I you know I have since like apologized to my ex-husband for a lot of the shit that I and that I did and the way I acted um and those were like pretty important lessons that I had to like really step back to learn um and you know things that I try not to bring into my relationship now you know but there are like hard old patterns that we have that are hard to break. But I I'm aware of them now where I don't think I was aware of them in my marriage because I wasn't really looking at it.

And my and Adrian is like a very evolved dude. I mean, he's he coaches like founders and entrepreneurs for a living. And he's like, you know, everything is a big conversation and he kind of doesn't let me get away with not talking about anything ever so we're we have such we have so much communication it's such open communication and so much honesty um which i think was something that was missing in my marriage that we weren't talking about things we were just kind of like being so he's kind of a ying to your yay he really is you might you're just kind of naturally more of an avoided personality when it comes to which is fine yeah no i mean i feel like i'm not i loved it i mean i grew up in a big jewish fan not big

but i grew up in a jewish family and my parents like talked everything to death and but but cam wasn't literally like that and now you know adrian is and he loves to like we we talk you know we wax poetic about shit all the time and that's's, that's something that I, I, I realized I didn't know that I wanted or needed in a partner, but that is something that is important to me, you know, is that there's, there's no like stone unturned. We are talking about everything and nothing gets kind of, you know, pushed to the side, which I think was a mistake that I, you know, I made in my marriage that I, that I learned from. from but I also find because I'm more like your Adrian where I'm like just talk it out figure it out in the past that hasn't in past

relationships for me like I was just annoying to that you know well he says that he says he'll say all the time like I know I'm being annoying and this is annoying and sometimes I say to him I'm like babe you gotta pause like you gotta stop talking i need like i need to like calibrate and like process before you keep going you know and he says that he thinks he can be annoying and i i really don't think it's annoying sometimes i just get like flooded you appreciate but i'm sure to other people i get i'm guessing if i were to talk to him i'm like you've had other girlfriends who have been like just you got real fucking annoying right you just want a good match.

Right. They were. They wanted to fight. And he was like, not willing, I'm guessing, to like. Yeah. He doesn't indulge in like, you know, I can like be a big fucking brat and I can like throw a fit. And he just like won't indulge in that shit. It's which is awesome.

I I'd be curious talking to your ex-husband. You should have Adrian and Cam on the show. Yeah. i'd be curious talking to your ex-husband if you should have adrian and cam on the show yeah that'd be a good idea exit like the x's i mean it's like not x's i don't know how what that what that label is i don't know i have to think of it but i'm guessing i'd be wondering the way you're describing him if I'm similar that he's probably good at not indulging in it now yeah for me when I was like more immature you know being like a fixer like the ego of thinking I can do this I would try to and not be like you know what this person isn't ready to have this conversation but I would my stubbornness would meet their stubbornness and then I would either go down I would I would I'd fall in that trap of doing what they're doing and just get mad it would be it

would make me really frustrated that I was talking to someone who didn't want to talk yeah but I was like I couldn't make them yeah want to do what I wanted to do that was on me yeah but I really struggled with that as opposed to be like you know what I'm just not yeah you're not ready you guys you and Adrian would have a field day talking. I mean, he's, you know, he's also different now than he was in his, you know, in his marriage and in his past relationship. Was he also married in the past? Yeah. And he has, he has two kids from that marriage

and he wasn't married as long as I was, but you know, he was, you know, he also like, you know, was like, had, had, I don't really, I don't want to talk too much about his marriage because it's his but you know he definitely had things that he was avoiding and not dealing with too when he was like like similar to like i did i mean this our relationship is so new for both of us and i mean we say it all the time like we've never been in such a like open honest relationship as we are now both of us how'd you guys meet we met through a matchmaker i know it was that obviously it worked for you guys what was that what's the difference between like a matchmaker and like your normal dating apps well i mean i was using the dating apps and i just

was like not meeting the right guys it was like i would but not like bad guys but i would i would meet like a guy who had like never been married and like like, for me, I was like, I don't, I think I need to be the guy who's like been married and like has kids and like is in like a similar boat as me, you know? And then I'd meet guys who were like still wanting to have kids. And I was like, uh, that, that ship has sailed. Like I'm not having any more babies. And so, you know, it was like, it was meeting guys who just didn't like want the same things as I did. Yeah, it's a non-negotiable yeah so you know so when i met this matchmaker and i was like wow this seems like a better route to get somebody who's like much like more specific to my needs of what i want i knew that i wanted you know a guy that you know was like a like a strong man who could like also deal with like all the complexities

that I brought, you know, is like, I, you know, I have this big life and I have two grown, well, not almost grown boys. And, you know, it's just like, there was a lot of complications, a lot of things that I need. I wanted a really like strong, very like sure of himself guy who was like established and successful on his own. And, and you know, I had, yeah, I mean, I had a couple, like a pretty, like good list of things that I wanted. And that's, that was the beauty of, you know, working with a matchmaker that it was like, oh, you know, you can get kind of, we can try to find at least, you know, and of course there's just like the chemistry thing that has to work, but yeah. So for for certain people you're obviously an advocate for the matchmaking process yeah i i am i mean i think to have somebody you know help you like narrow down

the pool for sure for sure you're a woman i am you're very successful thank you uh just a couple observations kind of nothing gets past you obvious observations um Observations, kind of. Nothing gets past you. Obvious observations. There seems to be this stereotype or stigma, if you want to call it that, or thought process in society that men or some men are intimidated by successful, strong-minded women. Yes. Do you find that to be true?

Yes. You do? Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of like the dating problem. You know, I found that like there was guys that I met who, you know, had like their own success and they were like living their lives and like, you know, had like a nice, you know, livelihood and whatever. But then they'd meet me and they'd say, oh, wow, like you've done really amazing things and you have built this big business and you've been on Shark Tank and you blah, blah, blah, you know, all the things.

And there was this kind of natural, like I could feel like they didn't, they just didn't feel like they, you know, they had gotten to the point where they wanted to get in their career and I had. And so that was like an intimidating environment for them to be around. And that was my experience. The first like handful of guys I dated after my divorce was like, oh yeah. You know, I, I think there were a lot of guys who were intimidated, which was weird to me. Cause I, I'm like, I don't really care. Like I don't, you know, it's like that all that shit doesn't matter to me. Like I'm more concerned than you and who you are as a

person and you know, how much money you make or where you live and that kind of stuff really doesn't matter to me. You know, I just want the kind of person I want and there's a lot of guys who were just like you know do you I mean and do you think that's just from a cultural standpoint society has taught us that it's okay for a man to have this monstrous career and and have that be an attractive quality rather than somehow as a woman, you almost have to apologize for your success. Did you feel that? Yeah.

I mean, and I wasn't about to apologize for my success, but I was like... Well, yeah, even if it's not like literal, but almost like of like, oh, you know, it's okay. Like downplay it or something. Yeah, it's just like, oh my God, it's fine. I'm not that big of a deal. Where other guys who aren't big deals will act like they're a bigger deal than they really are.

I mean, there is such a double standard and you're right. It's like, you know, a rich, powerful guy like, oh, every girl wants to date that guy because he's like whatever, you know. And I actually like shied away from like dating like the CEO types because I, you know, also, by the way, in my experience, stereotypes because I, you know, also, by the way, in my experience, I don't mean to stereotype, but I found those guys were also dating girls like, you know, in their 20s and 30s and they were in like their 50s. And I was like, what? What? I don't want to date that guy either, you know? And so, yeah, I mean, I do think that there is this weird double standard. And I, you know, and I think I felt that when I started dating that men were like, you know, And I, you know, and I think I felt that when I started dating that men were like, you know, it was like to me, it was like for Adrian was like so perfect for me because he's, you know, he's successful in his job and in what he's doing.

But he's he's just such a strong man. Whereas like a lot of the men I met were like they were OK at their jobs, but they were like, you know, you have way too much success and that's not comfortable for me to your point you know it's like yeah I was very like I guess like I should have maybe seen that coming but I didn't at first and I do think there's a there's a weird double standard about that yeah it's interesting because I get asked that question a lot and I wonder if sometimes I'm not as objective as I could be because I it just sounds weird I don't feel like I've ever been bothered by that in fact I feel like I've always been attracted to that

to successful women yes which is great I have a hard time surrounding myself with people without a purpose yeah does that make sense like I don't even care like we're not dating romantically like I just want you to I'm passionate about what I want to have passion. Yes.

Things or drive. That's for life. I mean, I always have it. Sometimes I feel very lost if I don't feel passionate about something. But I just like laziness is probably one of the most unattractive qualities that I can find in someone. So regardless of what you're doing, it's not a success level. It's just like uh be passionate just be passionate about it like i find it really attractive when someone's just like i'm just really

excited about this or whatever and it's so attractive and like you know women i've dated um it's it's a big deal for me and so like when i've when i've when people have said today are the women i've always been like well i don't think guys are like that but it seems like some of them I yeah I mean and I get the sense you know I'm just a speculation that like there are not all men are like that like Adrian's like that he loves like my you know my passion and drive and he loves like my zest for life and all of that but I don't I think my guess is like there are a lot of men out there that like just want their like their girlfriend or their wives to like just, you know, just not have their own thing and just kind of support them. Which like, by the way, nothing wrong with that. Like, you know, to each his own, you know, it's just like it's kind of what makes you tick.

Like, you know, like I said, Adrian wanted that in a woman. He wanted strong and be like someone who's going to go get shit done. He loves that about me, you know, which sounds like you love that in a woman too. I and be like someone who's gonna go get shit done he loves that about me you know which sounds like you love that in a woman too i mean not all men do i mean which is why you know the world goes around yeah i i guess you know and i have some friends where it's just maybe it's just the need i don't know i just i don't find it to be a very unsatisfying that there are men out there i mean i know there are that are just like you know want a different kind of woman that they want their woman to be like, you just, you do, you know, they're, they're intimidated by a strong woman.

Somebody a little bit more submissive in a sense. I just couldn't, I couldn't spend that much time with someone that I couldn't value their opinion on a regular basis. Well, you also like, you want them to have their own thing and you want them to not like be like waiting on you for whatever. I also want to be like, hey, what do you think about this and value their opinion?

Right. Of course. Hard to do if you're just on someone to just be there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who knows? You know, I don't. Yeah.

So what do you think for women out there who are listening to this and saying, oh my God, Ali is my animal spirit. I have all these big dreams. I'm this big personality. I'm a lawyer, doctor, whatever. And they find the same struggle.

Like their experience in dating has been guy after guy is, uh, feels emasculated by their success. Like, what are some things that you think they should do in their dating life to, you know, weed out those people? And what are some things that you've been should do in their dating life to you know weed out those people and what are some things that you've been able to find you know well maybe there's fine go get a matchmaker but just more yeah you know not wasting certain we're not wasting your time yeah like and yeah what were some things well i mean i think that you can i

think that you can very quickly tell like the kind of guy who's like really interested you know it's that those first conversations is a guy for me it's like I want a guy that's like asking a lot of questions about me versus telling me a lot about him you know it's like show that you're really like when you're out there in the dating scene like if a guy is like really genuinely interested in like what you're doing and what you're passionate about I think that's a good sign that like he is you know the kind of guy that wants to support you and wants to like be part of it and not going to get intimidated. In my experience, guys who are, you know, talking about themselves extensively and are like seem very, have very little interest in like what I'm doing is like, uh, it's a red flag.

Like you're, this is how it's going to be. And you can tell a lot from those, you know, that first date, those first conversations conversations or like a one-upper yeah you know all of a sudden they finally ask you a question about yourself they're like oh well let me tell you why I'm also doing something you should be impressed by yeah exactly I mean and you know like with Adrian like our first interaction was on the phone and you know I'm such a texter and I remember like we first we did start texting and then he called me kind of out of the blue and I was like why are you calling me like don't I don't what like you know but then we ended up talking in the very first time we spoke on the phone was like for five hours and

we talked and we talked and we talked and you know he asked me tons of questions and he really like it felt to me like he really wanted to know me and who I was and that was very attractive to me and that wasn't like something i had experienced a lot of it was to your point a lot of guys were like very like pop you know puffing their chest and telling me all the things about them and that i think was a is a good indication that that's not the right guy yeah wow i think she would have like she would have benefited from your your voice note conversation because I think that she probably would have really benefited from that. Do you use voice notes? Sometimes.

That's great. Is this like a thing? I want it to be more of a thing. It's one of those things, for some reason, we did a whole episode on it. Do you remember when FaceTime first came out, I found that a lot of people were like that's weird very resistant to it and now it's just seeing it's well it's almost just like why would you talk on the phone yeah to someone that you could facetime especially if you're

trying to have more of a intimate like i don't like i don't facetime my manager like it's just like you know tell me what you want but just a more personalized conversation with someone you're trying to have a more personalized conversation i text whatever it's dangerous like you know tell me what you want but just a more personalized conversation with someone you're trying to have a more personalized conversation i text whatever it's dangerous whatever you know but like voice notes is a way to like especially in an early text yeah in an early dating situation yes i just think it's a nightmare to text and much safer to voice can't i actually did date a guy right before i met adrian who did that and we were texting and then he all of a sudden sent me a voice voice note and i was like whoa and i was like oh i can hear his voice and and you're right i did i was like oh i like his voice and i actually liked this guy and i was like

oh am i supposed to do that now too and then i did and it was like one of the first times i had done it it's weird it is weird but it is like're right. It is like his whole point was like, well, you can like get a feel for me based on my voice and, and, and, you know, vice versa.

So I, I think there's, I think you're right. It is more intimate. You're totally right. And it's like funny when you mentioned FaceTime, because like my kids don't call me, they FaceTime me.

They never call me, but they always FaceTime me. And sometimes I'm like in an interview or sometimes I'm like, you guys chill with the FaceTime. But I love it too, especially like when they're at their dad. Closing up, I mean, I guess what are some things that you feel like you should leave the audience with that you've learned from, that it's been really successful for you?

I mean, this has been a great and fun conversation just because I feel like so many people listening are going to relate to the things that you've experienced with. But yeah, just final thoughts on how to have a life more like Allie. Well, it's just the good stuff, I guess. Yeah, I mean, but I think the bad stuff's important, too. there's there's any like takeaway i think that i've for me and what i've learned it's like you know just really really following you know your gut and your intuition and i know people say that all the time but i mean i think that like you you really have to like go deep and figure out like

you know are you living like your best life are you living the life that you want or are you settling because you think that's what you should be doing? You know, and for me, I was settling for a little while. I also was building this big business and doing this thing. And that was, that was my focus for so long. But, you know, I think, you know, my, my best advice to people out there is like, like I said before, like life is short. And like you're in you know an unhappy marriage and maybe don't get divorced but maybe try to fix it you know and it does rub off on your kids and um and if you're in a job that isn't like fulfilling change it you know i'm i'm such a big believer in like kind of keep reinventing yourself and keep trying to figure out something that makes you happy both professionally and and personally. And, you know, obviously this like crazy time that we're living in,

it's like we happen to have a lot of friends who are going through divorces right now and people who are like, you know, having a really hard time. But I think there is the silver lining in all of it is like it is a really reflective time. We have more time to ourselves than we've ever really had. It's like use that time to like kind of redefine yourself and figure out you know what's best and next for you yeah i i totally agree um i haven't

been divorced but i i still think the time i when i was first engaged and got broken up with and found out i was cheated on well that all sucks and i thought it would never happen to me it was easily the most like reflective and maturing part of my life for sure i mean it's like humbling darkness the humble yeah the humbling experience like okay that can happen to me oh okay yeah it does fine it's good it's really good i mean i think it's good to get knocked down like that not i mean i'm sorry that happened to you no no it's great i personally could use that it was fine yeah i mean me too i mean having gone through like what I went through in my divorce and having to like deal with that was like, oh, wow.

Like being knocked on your ass can be really good for you and very therapeutic and you grow a ton from it. Yeah. And power through those down, down times. Yes. I mean, I feel like there was like so many years where all, you know, like, well, there was like a good year. It was like me and my friends kind of j years where all, you know, like, well, there was like a good year. It was like me and my friends kind of joked about like, you know, the only way through is through.

And that was like, you know, it really was like you have to go through it. I really tried to like circumvent, I really tried to like, what's like the fast pass? What can I do? Because that's just like what I know. But I was like, fuck, I really just have to go through all this. And I did. And it sucked. And it sucked really bad. But I came out on the other end much stronger. That's awesome.

And thank you for sharing that story. Because I know that a lot of people listening are going to find this to be motivating and a little glimmer of hope. I hope so. And motivation. Sorry for all the husbands who are about to get served divorce papers. I mean, listen, it's a, we, like you said, we don't advocate for it, but sometimes it is necessary. And I think sometimes people avoid making the changes out of fear of the unknown, shame, guilt. And I would say to people, anybody out there listening, who's on like

unhappy in their marriage or on things they might be on the brink of divorce like just now's the time to get really honest you know I mean I Adrian and I actually did a live this week about that we talked a lot about that like you just have to like you might be scared to tell your partner or husband whatever that you know you don't like this or that and you're unhappy about it they may not understand that and they may not know that so I feel like just come clean with everything and you'd be surprised like how far it'll get you awesome yeah where can people find you Ali Webb on Instagram A-L-L-W-E-B-B um that's probably the best place to find all the things

that I have going on I have I'm writing I'm working on a new book right now I have a TV show in the works and I have all sorts of fun projects so I'm working on a new book right now. I have a TV show in the works and I have all sorts of fun projects. So I'm super excited about it, yeah. Awesome, you also have a podcast? Oh shit, yes. I have a podcast. Probably a good place to plug podcasts.

Yes, that's why I'm here. Oh my God. I'm thinking so much about personal and relationships. Adrian and I have a podcast called Raising the Bar where we interview entrepreneurs, impact leaders. And then we have once a week, we drop one that's called shit that bugs us or shit that we love.

Or it's kind of talking about this kind of stuff like relationships and customer service stuff that like bugs us about the world. And customer service, I can talk a lot. Yeah. I mean, that's like a huge one for us. And like, kind of like a lot of, if you listen, they're like 15 minute

episodes they're really short but they're usually like the things that we find that annoy us about like when you walk into a restaurant and you walk into a store and people are shitty to you like just don't do that it's easier to be nice and i'm gonna give you my money be nice to me sorry we can't do that yeah you can yeah you don't want to yeah just say that to me yes i've made people admit that to me or or i don't want they don't want to. Yeah, exactly. Just say that to me. Yeah, exactly. I've made people admit that to me or they don't want to admit it to me and then they give me what I want. Well, it's funny because like Adrian will do that.

We'll be in a restaurant and, you know, somebody does like something stupid like that and he's like, he'll say, but no, but you can. And I'm always like, babe, they don't think they're not empowered to. Like they, you know, they're, and they will give you this like bullshit answer. Like, well, that's not our policy. It's's like it doesn't really matter you just you know you're

just like you don't really care you're not getting paid enough to care yeah you know and you're the only the only thing you have the power to say is no yeah which and then the like i'm sorry you feel that way which is like my least favorite thing on the entire earth like i'm sorry you feel that way is like i hear you should ever say that we Or we were like, I understand you're upset. Yeah. Like, no, no. I understand what you're saying. It's the worst.

Still can't do it. Yeah. Stop saying can't. I'd rather you just tell me I don't want to help you. Yeah. And I'd actually be. No, honesty.

It's like, just be honest. Yes. It's like, hey, listen, I'm not allowed to do that. Yeah. But I get it. Or I might get fired if I do that. Then you're like, okay, shit, I don't want to get this person fired.

But don't just be a dick. Yeah. There should be a podcast called Don't Be a Dick. Coming soon in 2021 on the Viles. Thanks so much for coming on. It's been a ton of fun. Check out her podcast and her and Adrienne's yes Raising the Bar yeah we want to give Adrian the shout out give him some love Raising the Bar on all on all podcasts forming yeah I

listened to it today on Spotify and I also checked it out on iTunes I confirmed it's on both of those oh thank you for that well you've said you said you heard it here people well guys thanks for listening as always it's been a ton of fun don't forget to subscribe by sending your questions at ask nick at castmedia.com cast with k and if there's nothing else we will see you