The Viall Files - E222 The Bachelor Recap With ABC Executive Rob Mills

Episode Date: January 12, 2021

On tonights recap of The Bachelor we are joined by ABC Senior Vice President of Alternative Series, Specials, & Late Night Programming, Rob Mills. We always love it when Rob stops by not only to give us his take on all things Bachelor but also to see what hints we may get on what we can look forward to later in the season. Today Nick and Rob talk about the women who seem to be getting a lot of attention on the show, the women really being casted for Matt, how politics and religion can play a role going forward in the franchise, Nick’s thoughts on Heather arriving to the scene, and whether or not we can be looking forward to an AFR this season.  “ Appreciate your villains.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rothy’s http://www.rothys.com/VIALL to check out all the amazing shoes, bags, and masks available right now. FIGS: http://www.weaarfigs.com use code VIALL15 to enjoy 15% off your first order.  Natural Habits http://www.nhoils.com use code LOVE for 30% off and free shipping  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @millsy11374 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files i'm your host nick we're here recapping the bachelor got ch got Chrissy in Montana joining us as well. Great episode for you coming up. Rob Mills, the wonderful executive over at ABC who heads up all things alternative television, including The Bachelor, Jimmy Kimmel, all the great game shows you see on abc um is here once again to help us break down episode two as well as give us some insight on uh potential some previews of what's going on um for future episodes so always fun to

have uh rob uh we uh have a great episode on wednesday joins us to continue on getting some updates on how things ended on Tayshia's season a lot of heavy bachelor content recently but I guess that's what happens when you get one week off from each season so trying to get those out to you as soon as possible and the episode with Ivan is as great as you might think. Obviously, he's enjoyable to talk to. And we get an update on where he's at, some information that happened on the season. We even get to know Ivan on a more personal level, his passions, including prison reform and things like that. Great, likable guy.

Stick around and tune into that on Wednesday. And, yeah, don't forget to check out our Ask Nick episodes that we dropped on every Monday. We drop it every Monday. Thanks so much for those of the people who listen to that. It's become one of our most popular shows. And make sure to check that out. Not sure what else there is to mention.

Our merch. Don't forget merch. Our merch, vilefiles.com. You can check that out. Some great t-shirts, sweatshirts, all those fun things. Follow us on Instagram. We're doing some more great things.

We got the ladies, the Northwestern ladies making our social... You should make a donation the Northwestern ladies making our social... You should make a donation to Northwestern as a thank you. I mean, I hired two of their... You know what? I hired two of their graduates and every college wants to be like, every job placement, all of our graduates get a job. We'll put it on the website

i love it you're welcome you're welcome northwestern anything else did cindy go to northwestern no oh that would have been so good if she had make sure to check out cindy's uh recap of the best are on my instagram that That's out week two. She's magic. She's a fan favorite. That's Cindy. She is a fan favorite. Well, if there's nothing else, let's get to Rob Mills. Subscribe, review, all that fun stuff.

Appreciate you listening, everyone. Rob, welcome back. Nick, good to see you, buddy. Always great to see you. Can I say happy new year? I think we, yeah. I feel like there's a month. Yeah.

Especially if you haven't seen that person in person. I haven't seen you in person. Happy New Year. So Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year, buddy. Did you have a good New Year's Eve? I did, yeah. I usually, as your producer knows who works on New Year's Rockin' Eve,

I'm usually in Times Square. This was my first time in almost a decade that I wasn't there. Really? It was surreal, but it was cool. It's very relaxing. How about you? You were missed, Rob. I know.

I missed you guys, too. It was relaxing. Didn't do all too much. Did you kiss anyone at midnight? I did, yeah. Wow. Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news.

You know, I think that's all we'll say about that. We'll leave it at that. That's all I'll say about that. Exactly. That's it. Speaking of kissing. Do you want to tell them now, Nick? It was me.

It was in town. It was great. It was us. Put the clues together. That's right. Figure it out, everyone. We got the episode two of The Bachelor. Always great to have.

Episode two is an interesting episode. Well, it's kind of the big, it's really a continuation of episode one in the sense that we're really setting things up. We're getting to know people. Episode one, I always view as almost like the pre-game show. That's why why i love it's a soft open it is it's a soft open i mean i i loved peter's premiere last year because we actually did the first date and i thought we were gonna do that almost more permanently and i think we'll still look at it um sometimes i think in that case we did it because if you remember that's when Hannah came back she visited was Champagne Gate

in the premiere I don't think it was it was in the premiere it was a start that's when we were introduced to Champagne Gate and then it carried over to the date with Hannah B where she visited him at the thing and her mascara was all running

so it was great it was all running yeah which is great it was great it was fantastic so this is so you're right it's like the first one is just you get to know you you have the rose ceremony this is where the dates happen and to me i always think of for the bachelor the most notorious episode two we ever had was this is when henry remembers this far back it was jake pavelka season and rosalind papa and the you had a inappropriate relationship with the staffer chris harrison having to tell her to leave oh i've heard about that you know i didn't i don't want to see him it's like chris or nick's like guy i've heard about i heard tell of something about that and i and that was a pretty scandalous big deal that

was a scandal but it was crazy that it was already happening episode two. That is nuts. Yeah. Because when you were saying the most. Without quarantine, for that matter. Without quarantine, yeah. When you said the most scandalous episode two, I was like, oh, it wasn't when you guys brought a girl on the show that I hooked up with at a wedding. Wasn't that episode one?

Well, it was one and two. Yeah, one and two. No, no. this was way more painful than that yeah i guess was there ever a producer you thought about crossing the line with nick no yeah no well you know yeah i'm just kidding no um i don't really say their names and i was gonna make some joke about like right but i know what do you inside baseball yeah um so we uh so i just gotta say rob i'm really i'm enjoying yeah i'm curious so so what do you think about what do you think about matt what do you think about the girls great so far

it's early right i mean listen last season we have uh with taisha and claire we aged up we got a lot of uh conversations that seem to be a product of, obviously, specifically the guys, but the ages that they were and their life stories. That was great. Kind of excited that we've gone back to what seems to be a season full of just nonsense and drama and silliness, and I'm here for it.

I don't think it's just that, but I think you're right. Earlier on, you're getting what you love earlier on. Yes, I feel like we've gone kind of back to the roots of the early, obviously, with Claire's season. You're absolutely right. We didn't have any of the guys chyroned as king. Yeah, it got really heavy really quickly on Claire's season. This has been so far ridiculous.

And on the flip side, I really am enjoying Brie, a huge fan of, Abigail. I mean, what a find for you guys. There's a lot of rootability, but yes, there's some ridiculousness as well. You're right, it's totally welcome. And it feels bachelory. It feels less quarantini. It's like we figured out the formula on how to make it work. I think that was a big function of, I mean, it was such an undertaking just getting La Quinta there.

But it was a smaller footprint. But 90% of that, too, was just getting the ground rules for how it would work. I mean, that was a 40-page document that they had to write up and get through. So now it definitely is like, you know, they could walk now you can run. Yeah. And part of that was,

I mean, there's been obviously a lot of jokes about La Quinta versus where you're filming now, how beautiful it looks just. Yeah. But yet to your point, you guys scrambled to make Claire and Tayshia's season work. That's right.

I mean, and that was impressive. And then you had that many more months to say, all right, now if this is the new norm, temporary norm. No, it was good. And obviously, Nemecone is a place we shot during JoJo season. So there was a familiarity. Is that the same hotel? Yeah, same place. Okay.

Yeah. That's where um the two-on-one with chad happened gotcha now that makes sense so it was so yeah you know but it is great that you can actually have to your point of feeling bachelorette like the dates you know going up on a plane or or atv riding stuff like you can actually see more stuff as opposed to redressing a ballroom you know several times yeah and things like that that You can actually see more stuff as opposed to redressing a ballroom, you know, several times. Yeah. And things like that. That makes sense. So it does, it does feel bigger and more expansive. Well, we can't thank our frontline healthcare workers enough. Obviously, obviously, but you can get them very comfortable scrubs like figs,

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Stylish and sustainability. Meet to create your new favorites. Head to rothys.com slash V-I-A-L-L today. To answer your question, I think Matt so far is great. I mean, I know just a couple of guys here, but we should probably just take a moment and appreciate how great he looks with his shirt off.

It's really, it's something. He unfortunately is a little bit more modest than maybe some previous bachelors. I mean, I think Sean Lowe was a little humble too, but if you prod him just a little bit, he'd take the shirt off. Matt, I think it's been hard. And my God, if I looked like that it's saying it's incredible walking around so are you saying that we might not see matt with a shirt off every episode

because i feel like we should i think we will certainly try and i agree i mean there's there is a certain thing you're right no matter what you're sort of attracted to like you can just appreciate as an appreciator of the human form yes there's definitely stunning he's like just card you're just like oh my god i know you know there's there's hot and then there's no there's whatever that is whatever that is it's just like wow i know just no there's extra abs in there somewhere it's... The pecs are like perfectly formed. They're cylindrical. They're amazing. It's really...

Yeah. It's really something. So congrats to Matt. It is great. He looks great. And everything he does, even for somebody... And as you, as a star runner, even for a tall guy, he actually, when he runs... We see him at the beginning of this episode running.

His running is not awkward at all. He's got a really graceful gate he's a graceful gate which is really difficult when you're that tall he's an athlete though he can't do he's an athlete he is an athlete but there's not a conversation yeah i mean dikembe matumbo was not you know but he was running grace he was seven four i know that's not you know that's not, you know. Matt's 6'5"? Yeah, he's 6'5". He's a real 6'5". I remember when I met Ben Higgins and he was like, I'm 6'5". I'm like, no, you're not.

You're 6'4". Why would you lie about your height when you're Ben Higgins? I don't know. Like, I'll lie about my height. I think all men in high school, like I used to say I was 6'3". Did you really? Yeah, in high school. And then I was like, no, I'm 6'2". It's totally fine. I'm a was 6'3". Did you really? Yeah, in high school. And then I was like, nah, I'm 6'2".

It's totally fine. I'm a legit 6'2". It's an inch. Anything over really 5'10", I think, you don't need to. You don't need to. Speaking of somebody who's like 5'7 on a good day. Well, Brie gets the first 101. I don't think surprising.

I think everybody sort of, it's fascinating because I can never really tell the way they edit it i mean i watch it know everything but people immediately like oh yeah that's i gotta watch out for her i go to like i think dear brie immediately brie for me jumped off the page just her she's got incredible presence uh which is hard to to have on camera by doing nothing. Yeah. And I say that as a compliment. Like, Brie just kind of gets on a limo. She asked Matt his name. She's just kind of – and Brie stands out.

I think we mentioned this last week is because – and you have this happen every season early on of a lot of the women just being in awe and nervous. And while Matt wasn't on the previous season you know he's matt and he's tall he's good looking and a lot of people do know of matt brie is not intimidated she's just like this is a guy i could see myself dating he is my equal and i think that that stands out too if she's one of those girls who's who hasn't watched the show before yeah sort of is just doing this she's just

she's not as a you know it's like if it works out great if it doesn't that she acts like she belongs there but not in a cocky overly confident way she's just like okay i'll just see where it goes and it really really stands out uh so she gets the the one-on-one of love the cattiness of i don't she doesn't even look that good on it. It was like, who is good at like, is that a dating quality we require to four wheel gracefully? It is very straight. Also, it is one of the hidden benefits of Nemecone is

everyone can watch everyone doing the date. So they you know, furious that he's putting her helmet on. I think, yeah, it's crazy. It's great. So yeah, Brie rocks the first part of the date. We see Matt looking hot. it's great um so yeah brie brie rocks the uh the the the first part of the date we see matt looking hot it's it's great um we go into his comment about like i feel bad like i feel like bad for your mom like i'm apologizing to your mom was like so endearing to me that was

like the cutest thing about the whole date matt matt's very good at saying the right things. knocked her over. Yeah. Well, I will say Matt, the first time I thought of it as like a, knowing the right thing to say, but you brought it up a few times and I'm just like, all right,

Matt's already projecting meeting Bree's mom. You did start to think, you're like, God, my gosh, is that like an automatic hometown right there?

Well, I will say as, when I was the bachelor, you know, I don't know how you've had just if you've had discussions other leads but like obviously there's things that we're not supposed to say you know you don't well you want to be careful leading people on uh you want to be careful not giving too much away so for me i kind of found kind of more cryptic ways of expressing my interest and mentioning like oh what are your parents like i once what's asking more questions about them or making comments about were just

little things that i did i don't know if matt's thinking the same thing but he clearly has brie's mom in his mind and that's i think it's positive for brie yeah no i think you're right i mean i think it is interesting as somebody who had no prior experience with the franchise, how he is, you know, maybe these are just things that are very just ingrained and you're thinking about them. But, I mean, remember, you had been on Bachelorette twice. You'd been on Paradise. So it's interesting how he's doing this stuff

that maybe is just sort of ingrained inside you yeah maybe um oh i gotta ask when you last time we were here you said how matt did something on night one that no one's ever done was that the prank was the prayer yes that's what i thought yeah which i didn't expect to be such a sort of hot button of interest and and i actually understand some of it where it's the you know what if this had been somebody of a different denomination i get that listen i i think it's an interesting discussion i think i like it when people have the discussions about it i don't really get why people get fired up so much it's matt's journey i don't either i mean i

yes i have heard somebody say you know in a please, you know, either bow your head in the manner you're accustomed or whatever. And he did again. This is a guy. He's just met 32 women. He doesn't know what he say, like the fact he didn't tell people like, hey, if this is not OK with you. I mean, I think he just was trying to. It's just a prayer. It's a prayer. It's not going to burn you. You know, faith, I think, is important to everyone, however you... Well, it's interesting.

We just talked to Ivan, and he, you know, obviously so much, especially with the premiere and the lack of After the Final Rose, there was this conversation that Ivan got sent home,

and then religion was mentioned. We were all like, what is going on? Because clearly, they seemed to have a conversation inside the fantasy suite i mean that's on us for not clarifying that as much as we could but nevertheless you know ireland's is like yeah it would have been nice had she i didn't know how how big of a deal it was to taisha granted in defense taisha limited time

what matt did whether you're religious or not, or whether you're a different religion, is set the stage for what's important to him, who is the bachelor, who is trying to find love, and if that's something that's a big part of his life and he wants it to be a big part of his relationship, it makes sense. Now, it also would make sense

if it does make someone uncomfortable if they're not into it, but that's a discussion then maybe we will have. Absolutely, that's right. It question didn't make anyone uncomfortable i do have a question that like in past seasons obviously someone being christian is a very common thing we hear it a lot yeah and and i think that was at least some of the criticism on the other side of of matt praying do you see in the future whether it's The Bachelor or Bachelorette, like someone like Ivan, for example, Ivan's just like, hey, listen, I'm just not that religious.

It's not a big part of my life. Do you see, and I'm sure we've had Bachelor or Bachelorettes in the past be not that religious, but it's never talked about. And I'm wondering, do you see that? Would that be aired where someone like, say, let's say Ivan was The Bachelor who, you know, like he's great. And he's just like, listen, I'm not that religion that be aired where someone like say let's say Ivan was the bachelor who you know like he's great and he's just like listen I'm not that religion and he meets like someone like say Maddie comes on would you guys are you going to start airing more of those conversations because I know in the past seasons the I feel like the bachelor's kind of avoided having those conversations about religion or about politics or about other things that we don't see. And we seem to see more of it recently in these seasons. Yeah, no, I think part of it was a byproduct of the guys last season,

to your point, Nick, that they just have had more life experience, so they're sort of ready to have those conversations. But I think we also learned people liked seeing that. It at least was different. I mean, we're 25 seasons in so you have to i mean there has to be a balance it's also great like you said to see ridiculousness and what you would basically call nothing fights yeah that's great i mean you know yes obviously the maryland victoria interplay was phenomenal but yeah absolutely you know you need to see this and it is funny

because of this the whole thing last week, there was, I think it was going around, it was a Jewish website writing about, is The Bachelor a predominantly Christian show? And it's something like I'd never thought about, but it's certainly an interesting point and something to think about. And if people want to discuss religion, they should,

and we absolutely should, Eric. And as you think about it, just like you said, he's also setting the stage, this is going to be important to me. This is part of my life. Sean Lowe also, that was a very big thing for him, too, was just this is a big part of who I am. And if you're really taking this seriously as I'm looking for somebody that I could spend my life with, then you've got to, you know, those things have to be part of it. Absolutely. It makes sense. It's just, it is interesting because you're right. It's just, it's funny because I grew up very religious and I have a lot of Christian, you know, if you're Christian and you're religious, you're worried that people

are going to judge you for being religious. Matt kind of made a mention about that. Like, hey, it's a big part of my life and sometimes I'm afraid to talk about it. We also find people who aren't religious, who are equally sometimes afraid to bring that up. If it's just like, are you going to like me if I'm just, I'm not that religious. I just, I didn't grow up with it, et cetera, et cetera. And so just generally having conversations around whether you are. Yeah. Christian, you know, and I think most religions are supposed to be acceptance, but there is a lot of, well, if you don't believe what I believe,

then you're wrong. There is a lot of that in this world. We've also seen a lot in politics right now too, unfortunately. That is the climate we have in general, yes. That's right. So hopefully... Maybe The Bachelor can... If we can bring people together,

or you and I, Nick, whoever does it, I think we need more of that. All jokes aside, it is nice to watch a format like The Bachelor that's meant to be generally simple and digestible to enjoy and sprinkle in some of these common grounds. It's sometimes the best way for us to talk about these things is through entertainment. Yeah. entertainment yeah it's a new year and we need to make sure that we are not spraying febreze in our houses and breathing in those chemicals or if you're looking for a less invasive way uh to deal with headaches like taking ibuprofen all the time natural habits essential oils is something you need to try essential oils are our wonderful non-invasive way to deal with

things like headaches, help you relax. You can either roll them on your body, you can put them in a diffuser. And if for no other reason, it's just a safer, cleaner way of scenting your indoor air, check out nhoils.com. 30% off, code love, L-O-V-E, code love for 30% off. We offer free shipping. Check it out. You will love your oils. So we got the fireworks, and I honestly had to go back and watch it because that's when we started sprinkling a bit of Victoria the Queen, rubbing people the wrong way. And it just seemed like out of nowhere, she just started yelling at the women.

There's always these questions of like, is that how it really happened? seemed like out of nowhere she just started yelling at the women is yes you know there's always these questions of like is that how it really happened but what i've heard through the grapevine is and and one of the women kind of mentioned this she's like i thought it was an act but no this is who she is and i've heard that that victoria the queen is this is not a character she's playing this is who she is yeah no i think that's definitely true i think more of the question is and you know whether we'll get to it or not or you know on a tell-all or however we get to it is why why is she that way that's a great question you know because that's really the question there's always a story for how somebody became that way can you tell us if it's if is there a chance we

might learn more i don't know that you'll learn more now in the bachelor but i'm very curious about it so maybe it's something that we'll have chris ask about or on paradise too absolutely or oh yes or a tell-all or on paradise absolutely okay i am curious now queen and in or on paradise is that like a like a hint rob well i'm not saying, nothing's done yet. Nothing's done yet. By the way, she could be with Matt now and they could be broken up by the time of Paradise. We don't know.

I'm going to go on a limb and say that Victoria doesn't end up with Matt. I don't need you to confirm. I can't say anything. I'm going to get in trouble. But I'm going to... But she opened up so much, guys. I mean, she even said it. I opened up so much in this conversation.

Absolutely. Well, she's already just yelling at the women. I was just like, did I miss something? Did I tune out? I had to go back. No, I think it's just, you know. But again, it might be something that she's, there might be women. There's a projection there.

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that, you know, you always have to think of that. I don't think people are just born this way. I'm always very, you always have to think of that. I don't think people are just born this way. I'm always very, I tend to be defensive of villains. Yeah. Because there's the Luke Parker villain who is just kind of like, eh, he's a dick.

Well, Luke Parker, though, was himself, too. He went on for, I mean, Luke Parker is not one of those guys, to your point of like some people come on with an act or they have this, and he went on specifically for hannah and i always maintain they would have had a much better chance if they just met somewhere one-on-one because they actually had some very similar yeah and he might even be like not an awesome guy but he was the star of the season that's true and and he he made everyone more compelling because of how easy he was to dislike um but like other villains like you know your your noah's or what you know some people are more deserve the villain one and some people it's just like uh you know here's a soundtrack or or

whatever yeah and sometimes i just never really know and i also think too yeah i think we've gone to more of what i call the shades of gray villain which which is the, you know, it's not so like, oh, that's the villain and that's the hero. Which is, again, like life. I mean, everybody is, some people are better than others and not as good as other people. Yeah. And what I found interesting about this episode is because I'm always kind of looking like who could be or who might be matt's favorites who's gonna be maybe our villains villain vibes it's hard to tell because personally can you don't need to confirm or deny but i don't think victoria is going to be around much longer there's

a preview it sounds like maybe she makes it through this round it's unclear because the cliffhanger but we saw her and like an itm uh but she's obviously taken up a lot of of of airtime this episode and i don't think she's going to be around so we we don't get to see you know once victoria leaves there's going to be someone else who's going to ruffle sure someone the wrong way right and so now keep in mind we've also seen that is i don't think i'm getting any way we see in the previous that more women do arrive we do see that yeah clearly that also changes things that changes things so yeah i'm wondering that's the thing is i'm wondering are we gonna have kind of a real villain or someone who's like someone who matt likes who is not that popular in

the house i'm wondering if that will exist i don't think i think you're going to see it change then into matt sort of dealing with the fact that and he sort of said this he's never really been in love before and what that's like yeah i think you're going to see it start to get not heavy per se but much more more focused on Matt and his feelings towards the women. That's interesting. One girl who's making it horrible for everyone else. Interesting. That'll be interesting because we haven't, you know, we had Ben be unlovable.

Right. But there was little different than Matt's story. And we're hearing that a lot. Even the first two episodes is obviously his relationship with his mom, his relationship with his dad, and his parents' relationship. Yeah, I mean, that's going to come into play later. It's pretty crazy. There's a lot of twists and turns.

Yeah. And part of Brie, I'm assuming, having the first 101 is generally the first 101 is someone that the lead likes, and they coincidentally have at least some sort of relatable story. Not always. That's yes. But it is something that we especially in the case of Matt, where you do want to get you get to know him more.

Yeah. We really don't know Matt. Yeah. Probably more important for leads that we don't know a lot about. It definitely is. Because it gives, you know, we got to see Matt open up even more about, you know, his relationship with his dad. And who was your first one on one?

Mine was Danielle L. Oh, Danielle. I'm sorry. Malpy. Malpy. Oh, Daniel Malpy. Yes. And again, to your point, I think most people.

They were familiar with me, so that was less important because like her story, while sad, I didn't necessarily relate to. Yeah. She was the one who had the ex-boyfriend pass away um but uh yeah i think in that case it was about really you know i think exactly that so yeah brie gets uh the the the rose he's got fireworks all the women it like well here's what i like about again it going young again it's pretty obvious that a good chunk of these women have been bachelor fans and so like when they're watching the fireworks they're like this motherfucker is making out with her as we speak they know the playbook and they're kind of narrating and letting us know that they know uh which i think is always

worst week too because you know you're gonna go which I think is always great. And it's the worst week, too, because you know you're going to go on some group date that, as we see, is ridiculous. Ridiculous. Or you're not getting a date at all. Or you're not getting a date. And whether it's ridiculous or not, there were 18 women on the first date. Yeah. I mean, that's just a night one all over again. Exactly.

All over again. a night you're that's just a night one all over again all over again but um the other thing the flip side of it though is that what you're going to see with one of these girls who gets one of the first one-on-ones is the the difficulty of oh my god i got all this time and now i'm getting no time oh yeah and yeah that's the what do we call it the kind of early date withdrawals yes exactly yeah so that So that happens. That'll happen next week and you'll see that. I'm going to predict that happens with Sarah and not Brie. Yeah.

I can't say anything. I know you can't, Rob. Boy, Nick, you're. Brie is too poised. I she just nothing. I I'll be surprised if we see Brie crack. Right. That you're again, you're kind of surprised

somebody like this is you know is on this show here's the thing about Sarah though Matt really likes her really likes her he's very physically

attracted to her we got to see you hear this when Matt's just like oh I had some of the other women open up I really need Sarah to open up

I want it's like Matt like Sarah's the girl that we all when we're dating there's people we like we're just like and we're surprised and there's people we want to like yeah you know people are like we we physically find them attractive and you're just like to say something that makes me like like you and for and for matt that's sarah yes i think that's right. And while she's very sweet, she's got an incredible story with her dad. Being a caregiver is hard to do.

It doesn't matter if it's your father or mother or sister. It's always hard. But that is a very selfless act. There are certain things, too. And ALS is one of them where it's just like, God, just a horrible. There are so many things we need to cure, but that's one of them where it's just like, God, just a horrible. There's so many things we need to cure, but that's one of them. It's just awful. I was also watching this episode and wondering, I could see Sarah lose it at some point.

And I don't know if it's a villain. I could see her getting. No, I think it's just the difficulty of, oh, my gosh, this was amazing. Yeah. And then this is really tough. but it'll be interesting to see how what happens how does she respond to that because it's normal to feel that also what she's giving up to be there must yeah must play a part like the what she's giving up to be there like the time that she's wasting am i wasting my time because i should be home with my family it's always the

question how do the other people in the house respond to you having a hard time that's really yeah what it comes down to usually it you'll see it next week well and it's it's it's something can't can't wait it's great great um so then yeah we have the uh i love to see franco come back it's third time Franco becoming one of our regulars Started on my season Yes, absolutely Anytime you have a wedding date That's right Which, you know what? Honestly, it really plays

I don't think you could probably They found ways to make The same date Different versions of the same date Which is great You know? Get him in wedding dresses early on That was my first group date Matt had it easy matt got to like stand there in a very trim tailored suit i had to change

constantly one of which was an adam and eve costume i don't even remember this were we doing this for like a calendar or something or no it was the uh it was the photo shoot like different themed weddings so we had the shotgun wedding with Alexis, remember? Oh, yes, I do remember this now. That's right. And I saw him watching it and just thinking, well, Matt had it easy because he just... For some reason, I thought your episode two was Backstreet Boys. No, that was episode three. That was three.

Okay, got it. But anyways, Matt got to look good and watch. Yeah, it was great. Then you had the fun game. And true to Chris Harrison's point, I love it when Chris is like, there are literally no rules. And then we ended up watching a game that seemed to have absolutely no rules. It wasn't.

I mean, if you ever play Capture the Flag, I mean, that's sort of it. Sometimes you make that up as you go along. Now, I got a question. It seemed like there are some similarities between this date and my volleyball date, I don't know if you remember. Of course I do. Absolutely. And what I mean by that is that...

Isn't that where you learned about what a chokie was? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. That was a rough day. Thank you for reminding me. That's okay.

We saw Rachel cry, who apparently is just a crier because turns out she's not as religious as we want to believe that she might be she just cries because she cried after matt praying and then now she just cried yeah but then also katie cried there seemed the women seem to be very frustrated is that just a product of panicking early 18 women on a date they get sent home or was there a lot something that that happened that we didn't get to see? No, I think it's that. I also think, too, there was a little bit of that in the back of the head. To your point, they've seen the show before.

They're thinking, well, Matt's the type of guy who might say, you know what, you all did great, let's all go. It's like, no, you're going on. Because 18 is... It's too much. Exactly like you said, it's a night one. It's unwieldy. So you do have to have just nine.

So I think that was difficult. I mean, you're going home, you're dirty. It's cold there. Was it pretty cold? It's pretty cold, yeah. How long did they play for in real time, do you feel like? Probably a good hour. Yeah, probably that.

Maybe a little bit, just a little bit over that. Because they looked really taxed after that game we're like for no it was a lot of run again you you don't want to go back no you do not want to go back so you're really doing anything just honestly to get out of the house not only just to spend time with matt no it like it truly feels you know it's uh it's it's it's an amazing thing how how how monumental that moment can feel just by losing what is essentially might even be two minutes anyways right but it uh it really got it is it's it's tough absolutely yeah emotions ran high so most of this episode obviously is a lot about victoria uh she gets mad at is it what's uh maryland maryland yeah she

gets mad at maryland who we're now is it two to a room or when she said that she was a roommate or is it more kind of bunk like most of the time it's like six to a room or something but this is they've got this massive hotel so this is this is totally different So it really is just the two of them into a room. And they don't like... Yeah, but it doesn't seem like Victoria can get along with anyone. Yeah, I think that's probably true. Because there's always like... Even when it was on my season,

once in a while you guys will be like someone who's not a fan, a pop in the house. They always have one or two friends. No, and I think that's the case. I don't think Victoria has no friends in the house there's always like they always have one or two friends and i think that's the case i don't think it's victoria has no friends in the house but i think that it starts to get harder as she becomes more vocal to stick up you know to say to to defend her yeah because usually people are trying to like you go in you're just like i don't want to target on my back and you've all heard about targeting the back first and pre Victoria's just like has her hand up almost like I'm fine

bring it on well she also I think just takes the whole thing is like I'm here for I'm here for Matt yeah like I'm not here for you guys she mentions a few times that she's trying to find ways to stand out which I mean obviously they all are but she seems to be taking it in a very literal sense. Yes, that's right. It's like the no press is bad press mentality. It's just like, I just... Yeah, everyone's talking about me. Victoria's just trying to get press as it relates to Matt.

Yeah, that could be. I think that's, you know, I think there's definitely some of that right there. And like you said, she's a focal point of the episode. Lauren gets the group date rose. We hear that she's willing to do anything. She does well, captures the flag. She seems to have a nice moment with Matt.

He gives her the first impression. I mean, the group date rose. I thought it was kind of, I almost felt bad for, what is her name? Jacenna? I think it was Jacenna. Jacenna. It's totally reasonable to be sad about you've been cheated on. But lately, we've just been getting some real stories.

And so, Jacenna, it felt like a very forced cry. It was like, I want to get a kiss from Matt. I'm trying to stand out. Yeah. No, it's almost like going want to get a kiss from matt i'm trying to stand out yeah um no it's almost will you kiss me going back to the whole religion thing that's why it's interesting because a lot of these stories are usually about somebody cheated on me or somebody tell me about your ex or tell me about your yeah and so yeah it's that's why it's actually refreshing when we've had some

of these different conversations yeah yeah because she's like you know i've gated some guys and they cheated on me. Matt's kind of like uncomfortable because everyone's crying right away. He's like, what can I do to help? She's like, well, you can kiss me. I was like, wow, okay, well. No, again, also to our earlier point about he is a gorgeous specimen. So if you want to get a kiss from Matt, do it however you can.

Yeah, do it however you can yeah do it however you can you know i mean it reminds me of all the conversations you always say nick that you're like sometimes you just have to do it and you don't like even the victoria kiss was a little weird but you've had that conversation before it's like sometimes it's not the bachelor's choice it's like you're going around that's it it's very hard for the bachelor to reject a kiss. It is. Yeah. I think it's, that's one where it's much easier for the bachelorette. Much.

We've seen a lot of sort of like, nope, not good. If a bachelorette on, on episode two was just like, you know, it's a little early. We just were crying right now.

Let's, let's embrace the moment. Everyone would be like, yeah, okay. That makes sense. That's right. You know,

if the the if it was matt it was oh it's how could you do this that's a dick move you really you said no she just poured her heart out yeah um but it it felt a bit insincere it it it felt like per you know she just started crying does you're even starting to see not necessarily he doesn't have much of a poker face but you can really sort of tell where the connections are yeah where the and he's sort of balancing it because he does care about everyone's feelings here and he doesn't want well that's the thing matt seems like a nice guy and i think you kind of call it when matt asks without kind of getting him like what can, what can I do to help?

Because he knows he knows to be polite. And that's just the thing you do with anyone. I don't know if he likes you as much as if he's just kind of. Yeah. Kind of focused on you or thanks you for really, you know, like with Sarah, he mentioned how honored he was more than once that she was willing to share that story. And with Yesenia, he was basically in the nicest possible way asked, how can I get you to stop crying? I felt like. That's how it felt.

That's probably right. Like, I will do anything. What do you want? She's like, what are we going to make out? Lots of ice cream? Can I get you a cone? What is that weird byproduct, too, of The Bachelor is not only is it just dating unlike any other kind of dating because you're going on these dates, you're dating multiple women. But also, this is probably not a conversation that would happen on a first date in the real world.

You know? You're right. It's like Chris Harrison drumming into use this time, use this time. Use this time, use this time. So you're you're right it's like chris harrison drumming to use this time use this time use this time okay well i'm gonna tell them all these 100 i would like to ask matt um because you know for me when i was there it was certainly my first time as the bachelor but you're familiar with the conversations and so i certainly felt early on like i could you know and part of it was people who i connections with you know you're just naturally more interested in hearing about them

but like you could just tell when i was trying to have conversations with women who you could tell i was they were forcing it it's like why are we talking about this now we'll get to it and i'm curious if if matt um was surprised by like why is someone telling me this the very first conversation? Or if he was just like, I guess this is how it's going to be. I'm really just kind of curious if he was blown away by that. It's interesting. I know. Because you're right.

Because it's just so different. He's had no previous experience. So, yeah, I don't know. Now, granted, he also, though, as we all know, his best friend is Tyler C. He may have been briefed on some of this stuff, too. Yeah, I'm sure he did. But I guess while Tyler went all the way through Hannah's season, it is different being on the other side. Well, Hannah, though, is also a very good friend.

Yeah, Hannah probably told him a lot. She might have said something, too. Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't think about that. Although, like we said, it's very different for The Bachelorette. Yeah.

But I assume, you know, the guys... Although I guess it isn't. There's been some of those weird stories, too, where it's like they're saying something. There's plenty of guys

who early on... Yeah. They tell some bizarre story. Guys are just as bad about week two being like, I love you. Right. Out of nowhere. Yeah, that's right. I guess that's true too.

What do you want me to say here? Yeah. I'm just trying to stand out. Speaking of standing out, Kit didn't have much of a role. I'm really curious about her she you know she came in she's the youngest she came out pretty guns blazing episode one she in a in a group of women where there's so many she she she had her moments she didn't have as much i'm really wondering i don't really see i don't i don't that spencer vibe yeah now i don't know i don't see

matt being into her i just don't know if there's a connection there it's well again i don't know there's just so many women right now so there is it's difficult because i see kid as someone who like i've mentioned people mentioned corinne vibes you know she has right she comes from she has no problem kind of owning her privilege yeah in a sense at least when it comes to i've had a you know a charmed life so far and this is who i am um which tends to make for good sound bites but she was a little under the radar i think also victoria is laying a lot of cover fire right now that That's what I'm saying. I guess it was hard for anyone to be on the radar with Victoria. So, yeah, I mean, we have a big part of it was the Victoria and it's Maryland.

Yeah. Which Maryland, you know, I guess the best thing that ever happened to Maryland was Victoria because I don't know if Victoria, I don't know if Maryland would have much of a moment if it weren't for Victoria. Well I thought that her one on one of the cocktail party with Matt was actually really kind of touching and certainly made Matt look great like somebody who, there's always the

question of how much do you really pay attention. It felt like she was like I don't know if you like me, I haven't been on any dates, it's week one, there's only been a few dates and Matt was like, I don't know if you like me. I haven't been on any dates. It's week one. There's only been a few dates. And Matt was like, I got this gum in my pocket. I thought of you.

It looked like he looked behind the chair, saw a plant, and just happened to be like, you know what? Here you go. I thought of you. And she decided to just be like, you know what? I'm going to go with this. I'm going to tell everyone it's my favorite plant. I'm going to make everyone jealous.

I could be wrong, but that's how it felt. No, I can see why you say that. It's sort of like, you know, what you're saying with the Yesenia thing, where it's just the little bit of a deer in the headlights right now. And, you know, how do I rectify the moment? But no, I mean, I think that was a little more sincere than that. But I hear where you're coming from. Okay.

But you're right. She just wanted to be, you know, like, you know, I belong here. I didn't get a date. You know, please. I like you. She wanted to hear I like you. Yeah. She wanted to hear I like you.

It seems to be, I don't know if it's because it's a younger group but a little bit more panic overall on on the women like maybe that's the size of the group overall there's how many how many did you guys start with did you break a record 32 yeah so that's i think it's the size of the group it's also these were cast one of the advantages we had was we announced matt so early so they really were all cast for matt as opposed to sometimes yeah i actually want to say nick i don't even know i think no you guys casted for luke probably cast for luke and then we might have got a few in it was pretty last minute we announced you know the whole point of announcing though before you left paradise was so

that we could try and get some people in. And you don't have a ton of time, but like you said, with Matt, you guys had probably more time than usual. So these are girls who they're really,

you know, they're excited for Matt. They want to be there. Well, like Katie, you know, after the exhausting group date, and it came,

like, as a viewer, you're watching and be like, how, but you're right. Like, you know, Katie probably, she goes to the casting process she's she's been able to watch matt on social yeah she sees all the

great qualities she meets matt he's living up to the hype so to speak so she's just like this could be my guy and then you're not you're just yeah getting no time right um and there's a panic there of like am i gonna get the time you always hear i have so much to prove i just want to get an opportunity to show them who i am that's right um yeah and i think that was it i think with maryland it was a little bit in overdrive because again the it's hard i always think those people who don't get a date that second week it's tough yeah no and it's it is amazing and you think you just take it personally you think it's it's not it's me you do i mean as much as i uh like it was kind of funny seeing marilyn get excited about getting the plant but i didn't get a date uh on andy season i got the first impression rose and

that's pretty common to get sidelined yeah and and production sent us cookies with a note from andy and i know knowing what i know now it's just like yeah they and he was like yeah sure send them some cookies it was like were the cookies any good i don't know they they were they they were definitely store-bought right like that you could tell they just had that store-bought taste. But in the moment, I remember being like, she made me these. You know what? They were – I convinced myself that she picked every – They were bigger, more special than they were.

Yeah, and they weren't even just for me. They were for anyone who wanted to eat them. And they weren't even just for me. They were for anyone who wanted to eat them. But so you have a way of trying to tell yourself you belong. Yeah, no, I think it's definitely that. And I think that there are sometimes when people can make it really special for you. I mean, I remember Brad Womack's second time.

And the same thing, Emily Maynard got the first impression Rose didn't get a date, but he actually set up like a whole picnic at the cocktail party in that second episode just to make sure that she knew, like, you know, I was I know you didn't get a date. I was thinking about you. So I think that was a little bit of what Matt was trying to do. Yeah. And we got to see that with Abigail, right? And we know Abigail is like that classic, didn't see much of her, but we did see, we reaffirmed that Matt's very into Abigail, that she's a sweetheart. I love the whole- It would be hard not to be. The secret, like what's going to be our signal.

Yeah. And you can always tell. You mentioned Poker Face. Like, there's polite nice Matt, and there's I really like you. I find you captivating. I want to have this game. I'm not saying this to be nice. I'm in on this with you.

And that's how I felt when he was talking to Abigail. Yeah, and I think that's right. I felt when he was talking to Abigail. Yeah, and I think that's right. And I think, you know, it's sort of easy early on then to see who he's into and who he's not. So it's sort of, you sort of know who's going to go home and who's going to stay. But then

it's, that's the classic thing in The Bachelor. It's like, oh, now he's down to like six people he really, that he's really liked. And what is he going to do? That's where that net just starts to tighten and tighten. And, you know, I can see that. Yeah, that's great.

Great. I think I appreciate the preview. Yeah, it's good. That's really good. Before we let you go, obviously, the episode ended with Sarah. Yes. Well, the episode ended with we're sort of a to be continued with the the cocktail party he's giving out his middle it's like middle we haven't not

done so the big cliffhanger is it will it's kind of like will victoria get the rose yes you guys kind of spoiled that regardless in the preview yeah with the preview you need to know though that victoria is still going to be around i yeah you know who cares she's just you know she's so great i'll tell you what i i care and for the reason i always try to tell the audience appreciate your villains you know yeah everyone's out there um you know tweeting and unfortunately what i i'm sure and it's not okay that victoria is going to feel the wrath of Twitter in a mean way. You know, fine, tell your jokes. Just remember, like I said, everyone is that way for a reason.

Yeah. You know, and we all have stories. Nobody has been born just mean and, you know, and I wouldn't necessarily call her mean, it's she has a way of of dealing with women that's that's interesting she's asking for attention that she'll probably yeah regret that could be yeah yeah so that yeah it's just like we you know she clearly is requiring attention she wants it from matt but if she's not going to get it from matt she's she's getting it from the other women oh i just want to point out, not a good sign when you ask for – well, first of all, try not to ask for a kiss in general,

but Victoria just asked for a kiss. Matt's response is, sure. Sure. Yeah. So awkward. I know. Never. But, you know, what a good sport.

Because he's not really, you know, the kissing bandit type, as we've seen. No, but he does kiss with his eyes open a little. Did you notice that? I'm going to look at that now. Sometimes he kisses with his eyes wide open, and sometimes he doesn't. Is that even a thing? It is a thing. Do people do that?

I don't get why people say you should 100% kiss with your eyes closed all the time. I just have never known it to be a thing. I think on camera it just looks a little weird. But I appreciate it. But it just looked a little weird. But it's okay. I'm certainly going to watch that now. I don't know.

I feel like Matt is an appropriate amount. He went in for the kiss with Abigail. He doesn't seem to be afraid to kiss when he wants to kiss. He's not afraid to kiss. When he wants to, yeah. That's right. But he's also not somebody who is going to set the record for, you know, I kissed all 20 some odd women. But in defense to whoever the lead is, when they set records, it more has to do with the cast than anything else.

Because even the bachelorette tends not to reject. It's an exhausting thing. You might with one guy. It becomes a contest almost, doesn't it? Like in the house, people are like, he didn't get it. I got it. They got a kiss. I didn't get a kiss.

They're talking amongst each other. Right, exactly. Yeah, so I feel like it's a little bit of a. Yeah, it's more on. It's more on the cast. Yeah, it is. But these. Yeah.

And some of these girls are just OK. They want to kiss Matt. And who can blame? I think it's totally fine. So, yeah. So, Sarah, is she. Do we know if she's lightheaded or are we? You know, it just was, you know, obviously you'll see next week.

She said, you know, I'm feeling lightheaded. I'm seeing stars. Yeah, I'm seeing stars. I think Chris Harrison actually walked into the room at that point. So I think that's what she was referring to there. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense because I've seen it in cartoons, but I don't know if anyone's ever seen stars.

Stars at least is a little more realistic than birds. That's true. I've seen birds. But I think it was just some sort of a lightheaded spell. And look, as you know, you're standing there for a long time. It can get a know nerve-wracking a little nerve-wracking i mean it's it's ironic somebody who has a rose but it's just you know it's doing it's not the first time this has happened no it's not and to that point uh usually when it does happen especially on the bachelor it tends to annoy the other women uh a lot of people will

read it as attention grabbing right insincere sarah seems to be liked in the house yeah but also it's like this is exactly to your point though if you have a rose why would you do that that's true so maybe people although although you'll see what happens next week well here's the thing here's the thing. Here's what I've had a hard time with trying to figure out in a great way. And because it's been Victoria cannibalizing so much of the drama, all of the attention that Victoria has gotten is because of Victoria, her insistence on demanding attention.

Usually in other seasons, whether it's the first impression Rose, uh, the first, you know, first couple one-on-ones or like a group date Rose, usually one of those people in the first week tends to be someone who gets early attention and they don't handle it very well. Or at least that's the perception of it, where they, the target on the back by like getting too confident too soon and then rubbing some of the women the other way. And I'm trying to figure out, because I feel like, is it just Victoria protecting one of these people? Or Sarah, Brie, I don't think it's going to be Brie,

or Lauren who got the group date rose, or maybe it's, you know, like I feel like it's always one of these one of the early people who get validated tend to burn out or or handle it or at least rub people the wrong way and i'm trying to figure out who it's going to be but it's harder to figure out because of victoria it is that's i think you're you're right i think that's a really good point it It'll manifest itself pretty quickly. Okay. Yeah. The people showing up, are you able to, is that sooner than later? That is sooner than later.

It's coming up, Jerry's, it will not happen next week, but it's pretty soon. Okay. And Never Been Kissed, we see, comes on. She also shows up. Yeah, absolutely. Is that a product of the friendship that she has with Hannah and Hannah has with Matt? Well, I would assume so. I don't know.

But I definitely know this was, you know, I mean, look, for the most part, it is somebody who's had a, you know, with you and Caitlin, it's like you guys clearly had a relationship. And, you know, but there are times where it's like, oh, how do we help, you know, make this happen or whatever. Or there's times that you meet someone at a wedding, you haven't talked to since and then they show up and then they show up exactly which is also great also great this is but this is one where this was very you know much this this wasn't like well who can we bring on from previous if anything we wanted to be more agnostic towards previous cast even you haven't seen you know i think people were expecting to see tyler like every episode like this was going to be tyler the wingman and everything and you know you haven't seen him yeah which makes sense this is matt's season and maybe we'll see tyler i think there could have been there certainly could

have been the the thought of like oh we need to get some people in from previous bachelor seasons to get because matt is a whole cloth bachelor we don't we don't know him we don't know any of these girls that's the you know it's always that's why it's it's usually been better to have a lead from a previous season yeah so you know this is not this was not a okay how do we bring somebody in from from previous season that's promotable? Yeah. No, it makes sense. I would guess, knowing very little, that Never Been Kissed has met Matt through Hannah and her friendship with Hannah.

She has a crush on Matt, and she thinks there's a connection with Matt more than there is. And my guess is she'll come on and be like, we have something and be wildly disappointed. This is my guess. I know very little other than that. I like that your guess is so like, well, it's very like thorough. It's not like, I mean, you know, you host a recap show. I want to go back and be like, I nailed it or I got it wrong. But I think she thinks there's a connection more than Matt thinks.

And she's going to probably be disappointed. And we'll see. We'll see. It's going to happen pretty soon. Well, Rob, is there anything we're leaving out? I know you got to get going. You're a busy guy. We appreciate you coming on and giving us some insight.

Yeah, absolutely. It's always fun. People always love listening to you. So I appreciate you coming in and sharing your thoughts. I look forward to the rest of the season. It's going to be a lot of fun. Can you tell us if we're going to be able to make

After the Final Rose happen this season? I feel like a lot of people were disappointed. Yeah, it was, you know, you have to remember this was December 22nd. Yeah. You know, it's normally we could have either pre-taped something months early and then if something happened say you know tation's act had broken up or something it's completely irrelevant yeah um we you know december 22nd was so hard to ask

people they had literally just finished the batch i mean people were exhausted and for the most part the beauty of things like you have a podcast you know we've we've now heard from ivan we've talked we've seen you know tations yeah i mean it's obviously it's great for my show it's great for you exactly so thanks so we're gonna take that away now okay we're gonna go back to an afr okay that but it was just it was really really difficult but this season absolutely i mean the only thing i would say is things are so unpredictable in this world. You know, you never can say never. But I would be stunned if there's not an AFR this season.

Okay. We have every intention of doing it. I think everyone's going to be really excited. I've pretty much been on the record, too, saying this, too, because everyone asks this. But obviously we are hellbent on figuring out Paradise 2 for this year. So it's not a sure thing yet? I think it is. It's just how we're going to do it.

But I'm sure it's going to happen. You have four seasons to cast from. You have an MVP roster. Honestly, I think we could probably do some supersized season because we could just keep cycling people in. No, you can. You're going to have so many people that are are prompt they they were big characters in their respective seasons who are gonna feel like their shoe-ins everyone like

i'll never forget i think your season of paradise was the last one we were like god this pond is stocked we've got so many people it was good and so yeah i definitely think there's definitely that and when you have that you just have you have more people feeling the pressure absolutely there's a built-in pressure now these people from all the way back from um peter's season are starting to look at like they're starting to look at this you know oh yeah this season this is who my competition is for sure you know they're looking at the people who are on Clarentasia's season. I think about what the, it's fascinating. And you got to think that some of the guys.

I mean, with Peter now single, you could have Kelly, you could have Peter on. Oh, there's so many. Is there a Maddie and Peter reunion potentially? At the very least, I just want Peter to come on in a seaplane. Even if he just does a flyby and then leaves, doesn't do the season, I just want to see him fly in. I'm here for it. Ridiculous.

Well, Rob, we know you've got to go and can't thank you enough. I just want to say, me, personal plug here, if Abigail doesn't win Matt's heart, she is currently my choice for your next bachelorette. It's always good to hear that, and let us know. And certainly, as you hear things, Nick, from your listeners or whatever, it's always good to hear who people like and want to see as the Bachelorette. I will let you know, Rob.

I'm sure you guys have it covered, but I just wanted to say that I think that would be a fantastic season. All right. Thanks so much, Rob. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send your questions to AskNick at cast me.com for ask nick episodes make sure to check us out every monday for those um we have ivan joining us tomorrow uh great conversation with ivan covered a lot of topics i don't think he's uh talked about yet on some of these other podcasts to be make sure to

check that out and if there's nothing else we will see you on wednesday