The Viall Files - E228 The Bachelor Recap With Lauren Zima

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Lauren Zima joins us once again to recap tonights episode of The Bachelor. Nick and Lauren immediately jump into their show banter and break all things down when it comes to the toxic behavior surrounding the women. How do they really feel about Anna and Victoria’s words this episode? What did they think about Michelle’s connection with Matt and the rest of the new women? Is Matt kissing people he likes more or less with his eyes open? Lauren and Nick also talk about her conversation with Sarah, Clare & Dale, and we find out if Chris’s matter of fact look when delivering news on the show, translates to real life.  “…then we see her in paradise with a crown of seashells” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Caviar: Download the Caviar app and use offer code VIALL for 20% off your first order.  Bev: http://drinkbev.com/VIALL or use code VIALL at checkout to get 20% off your first purchase  Huzzah: http://www.drinkhuzzah.com use promo code VIALL for 20% off  Natural Habits: http://nhoils.com use promo LOVE for 30% off  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @laurenzima See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Happy Monday night, Tuesday morning, Bachelor recap. Wow, we are kind of figuring this out as we go. If you're watching this, you might notice that I am recording from my house because it rained in LA yesterday and apparently LA has power outages when it rains. So the studio is not working. So we called an audible. We're recording from our home. And Lauren Zima has graced us with her presence yet again. And I got to say, Lauren, I'm really glad that I experienced this power outage when I had you on the lineup. Because you're so easy to work with and we're friends. It would have been super weird had how to have to wake up and

like you know be like hey do you want to like come over and record a podcast i walked in myself right at home i said what what do you have for my coffee you don't have oat milk i this might be our first fight i don't know why you don't have oat milk i'm gonna send you some we'll talk about it later but look at all the wine you have hanging behind me right now. If you guys are watching on the video, Nick has his own little wine collection. So we're, I don't know, either going to open some this morning or I'm coming back in a couple hours.

You're going to have some Spade and Sparrow back there. Sure. A little shout out to KB supporting the friends. We also have Wells Adams. Wells' family's wine, which is very good. He sent Chris and I some. I love it. So happy to be here.

And we'll be looking in all the nooks and crannies before I leave. What will we find? It'll be fun. So Lauren is going to help us break down. Is this episode four? Yes. Episode four of a Matt season. Before we get into that, a couple house notes. Literally. House notes. Because here we are. Here we get into that, you know, a couple of house notes.

Literally house notes. Here we are. Here we are. Don't forget to, you know, check out our Ask Nick episodes. For those of you tuning into our Bachelor recaps, if you're interested in people sharing their tragic problems and stories and us telling them how to fix it. Really entertaining stuff. People seem to love it. Be sure to check that out.

Vilefiles.com if you're interested in some merch. Check out our episode tomorrow. Ricky Williams joins us. If you are a football fan, you certainly know of Ricky Williams. He is a legend in the football community. NCAA rushing record. one time held that, long, successful NFL career, very interesting guy, also incredibly into astrology. He's,

dare I say, an expert, studies it, and we have a very rich discussion about that and how it plays a role in relationships. And I got to say, it's the first time ever having a conversation about astrology. My attention was captured. He really changed my perspective on how astrology can be a useful tool and not just something that we'd like to talk about. So if you are interested in that, be sure to check that out. And if there is nothing else, should we just get to this recap lauren let's get to it i'm a little bit afraid to get to it on this one honestly probably destroy some of these women oh it seems to be the theme uh lauren wow um i guess for starters i what where are you with regards to the women overall in the season? How are you enjoying the season?

How are you enjoying Matt? I am very much enjoying the season because every week I don't really know what's going to happen next. I feel like we kind of keep getting new villains. And then now my big thing this week was I don't know who the villain is anymore. And I don't 100% know who to root for anymore. Because not only are the women really being pretty cruel, but I'm not seeing a lot of people except for our girl Katie stand up for anybody. Unless it's not being shown.

So I have a lot of questions. Yeah, a lot of great points. You know, which we've come to expect from you, Lauren. Wow, thank you. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, on that end, it makes it really interesting, especially this early on, that it's not predictable yet, that it is also very early.

It's so early that we're even getting new women showing up that one of which Michelle seems like a legit contender for Matt's heart. Yes. Very quick. So it's still early. Right. I mean, we posted on Instagram about her better late than never. Yeah. OK.

Matt has been kind of breadcrumbing us with his social. He Serena. He called her hot. I think he tweeted something about it's really interesting to see Matt on social to me because I feel like Tyler Cameron gave him a boot camp and like how to be on social with this show even though we'd never seen him as a contestant on the show I think Tyler seems to have given him some lessons and he's doing a good job and they're really playing having some fun together i liked that he embraced the eyes open thing that he was like yeah yeah i'm awkward i'm weird like with this let's just lean in i liked that how did you feel about the women coming in the new ones

as it relates to like the decision women specifically but just new women coming in at this stage in the game as a former like the show's decision yes that we're doing that period i think it's great you know it's one of those things where at this point, they constantly have to think of creative ways to make this a fresh and compelling TV show. I mean, they have their playbook, right? They have their, this is the show, and it's always going to be that to a certain degree,

but you have to change it up for so many seasons, and it makes it interesting, and it gets reactions from people. And it's going to give us a lot to talk about because it elicited a response from many of these women that was very unattractive. And it's going to give us a lot to talk about. So from a show standpoint, I think it's great. All you ladies out there, if you're into supporting other women, unlike the women on Matt's James season, then I have a great company for you. Bev is a female first canned wine brand that was founded to change not only the way a product is consumed, but the way an industry and culture has operated for generations. In an industry that is almost exclusively masculine,

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pizza, falafel salad. Get whatever food you're in the mood for on the caviar app with delivery from your favorite local restaurants. Get Mediterranean, vegan, vegetarian, and more. It's super easy to find good food for whatever you're feeling. Looking for something that's not dinner? Caviar can also help you get ice cream, fun snacks, breakfast, a healthy lunch, and more. And just for our listeners, Caviar is giving 20% off your first order. Just enter promo code V-I-A-L-L at checkout. Remember, that's 20% off your first order with promo code V-I-A-L-L. Download the Caviar app and use offer code v-i-a-l-l download the caviar app and use offer code v-i-a-l-l for 20 off your first order i think it's hysterical uh your boyfriend and how he he does it i i i watch chris come in and he walked in like a secret agent yeah

it's just like if you're it's like i have no doubt chris isn't a wonderful father but i gotta imagine he's so good at like the straight face that he does he fuck with his kids all the time you know or it's just like it's clearly he knows everything that's going on and he comes in like an emergency hey can i grab you right now and we have to leave right now and a straight face you know like and like clearly i don't i don't think i could do that like he and like but like chris must enjoy he knows everyone's gonna lose their shit he must be just smiling on the inside and it's like defcon 5 look he's coming in it's just very serious and very stoic i mean props props to chris for that man makes the most of every moment

that we see him on television. You know, when he saw him walk in, I was then like watching him and Matt walk next to each other in these suits. Does he do that with you? Yeah, he walks in and he's like, all right, we have to talk about something. Can I see you outside?

We got to send Nick some oat milk because... I just imagine he does this all the time. What a gift. With great power comes great responsibility. And I wonder if he, hopefully he doesn't feel drunk with power with his ability to hold a straight face. Man, I will say, now that I think about it, we've actually talked about that sometimes before. That's so funny that you're saying this because we had this minor scuffle the other day. funny that you're saying this because we had this like minor uh scuffle the other day and i was telling him sometimes you you need to like work on your reactions a little bit in our relationship because oh my god i'm just realizing this now nick because i gave him a gift and i was like what do

you think of it and he was so poker faced about it wow we, we have a lot. He's gotten too good. He's gotten too good. Yeah, he was like, well, find out next week. He was like, can I see you outside where I'll tell you what I think? I mean, it's amazing because I'm just like,

I know that he knows, right? And it's pretty hysterical. Well, I loved it and I agree with you. Look, we want the show to try new things all the time, right? That's what we love.

That's how we always get headlines out of it and interest in it and discussion out of it. And also this isn't something that's insane. We do this on bachelor in paradise, new people come in. In this case, they were unfamiliar faces, but I thought that it made sense.

They were tying it into Matt having this record number of applicants. And I'm sure we'll get into the specifics of what was said more but the argument from the women that it just wasn't fair that these new women came in I'm like what's fair you're on the bachelor no I mean talking about there is no faith there's no rules here like yes we might argue about whether like what somebody does you know did you did you steal the time? Was that rude? But in terms of rules, we're always told there really aren't rules. Of course, right. Or the rules can bend and change and grow and, you know, just like relationships.

Well, Anna starts off the week by saying she even suggests that she is responsible along with maybe some of the other women that like we've we've we have fought over silly things and that is beneath us. So let's not have any more, which is great. I mean, they do this every season of like, let's restart. Kind of let's restart of kind of, you know, it's a little preview of how we won't. Yeah. And and she truly I have so many problems with Anna. Here's the thing. I don't like, as many people know on this show, I'm very reluctant to make judgments on one's character in real life through watching them on the show. Soundtracksacks edit context there's certain things that i um i'm reluctant to do for

example chelsea there are a couple moments this episode the first you know first time i watched it i was like oh chelsea i was so disappointed i was so disappointed many of the women and yet i went back and watched and i'm not prepared to to say it for sure because every time you got a reaction shot from Chelsea, it was just Chelsea. And so that reaction shot, who knows? You're wondering where it may have come from. Who knows? However, but you look at Anna and Victoria, it is clear that there's so much data and so much information and so many comments from them about their behavior and the things they said that I'm comfortable with saying that I think Anna and Victoria just kind of toxic. They kind of have garbage character traits.

Like, I don't think they're great people. I think there's a lot of insecurities and I think there's a lot of nastiness at their core as humans. And I think there's a lot of nastiness at their core as humans. And I am not like, you know, I how do you how do you, Anna, have four or five women show up? I mean, also, here's the thing. Anna is essentially admitting to us that she knew she knew Britney was coming on the show. She knew she didn't know the timing. Because why else would she be talking? Why else? Yeah. was coming on the show she knew she didn't know the timing because why else would she be talking why else yeah you know she was framing it as if like chicago is a super small city and everyone knows everyone and and somehow everyone in chicago knew she was going on the bachelor

and to like give her a heads up that this this other girl you should watch out for clearly anna was telling her you know probably every friend she has that she's about to go on the show. So word got around. And then Brittany told her friends and they have a mutual friend. They probably work in the service industry in Chicago. You know, they're Brittany.

So what's Anna's job? What is her job? She's a copywriter. Who knows? But she could be a copywriter and also a bottle service girl in Chicago, which is totally fine. We have got to learn more about the Chicago social scene.

Being from the Midwest, I think our knowledge is lacking. I'm tapped in a little bit. I'm not tapped in. I haven't lived there since I was 17. I was like, the Portillo's? I don't know. Where are we hanging out? There's a handful of nightclubs.

I don't know what the popular nightclubs are now. My last big hit was the Stratford Square Mall. They're probably different. And Brittany could have probably, maybe as a bottle service girl, right? And maybe even Anna was or has a friend who is, which is totally fine. So either way, they roam in certain circles.

She heard some rumors and then decided to like, she keeps admitting that she knows it's just a rumor and yet keeps insisting on talking about it. And that's just a terrible quality to have. So you combine the fact that she knew Britney was coming on the show. Clearly everyone knows, Britney even when she was talking to Matt said,

I've been sitting in a hotel room for a week. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not her choice. It's not her. Clearly they do the women not. I know they don't know what's going on. Right. I know this is all new to them.

Yeah. But they, they sat in a hotel room for a period of days. That was what was wild to me about the time argument and what's fair. I was like, this girl's been alone in a hotel room for three weeks. Let her speak to a person. I'd be like,

you know, it's fair. You getting some human contact right for three weeks. Let her speak to a person. I'd be like, you know what's fair? You're getting some human contact right now. Yeah. Do you want to talk to any of us? What skincare do you use? Like, let's have a discussion because you haven't had a human conversation in three weeks. This argument that I've been here for three weeks, you know, three bachelor weeks or whatever, and I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. So, like, get in line and wait your turn.

No. It's quite the opposite. You've essentially wasted three weeks. I don't know what, probably because Matt's not remotely interested in you. And you know what? That's okay. We all need to accept the fact that in the world, there's plenty of people not remotely interested in us and they don't want to sit down with us or invest time with us. He's just not that into you. You know what was interesting to me was that he kept four of the five new women, which made me think he really knows who he's into. He's really disinterested in all these women who are there. It's also interesting, and I thought about this.

There is an insane amount of women currently on the show, given that it's week four. And I haven't, you know, I don't know if you've talked to chris i haven't talked to any of the producers about this but i got to assume this is silly based on the fact they don't have to travel so there you can be like you know what it's a little nutty and but the fact that we're just going to keep 20 women well they have said many times i feel like we've heard that line several times of a record number of women applied, how many women applied. So it seems to me like it's almost just part of the season that all these women were so into Matt that we're having more women than usual. Matt is clearly a catch. Nice guy. He's very attractive. That's bullshit. You don't think a record number of women applied?

Maybe. It doesn't matter. We also had so much time for women to apply. It also, but I don't, that doesn't matter. There could have been 5 million people who applied, right? But that is not why. You mean in terms of why we're keeping people. Why we're keeping extra people, why we're bringing women in late, right? Because, you know, Chris is just like, well, there's a record, you know, everyone wants you. So now, like, you know, Chris is acting like they just showed up you know

like the season started chris got a call and they're like i want to meet matt they're like well hey i guess we'll have to let you on like clearly that's not happening right i see what you're saying that like logistically it's impossible to travel like 25 women well it's more expensive it's more expensive it's harder but because they don't have to travel that gives them a freedom to see like you know let's just keep a couple extra people for a couple extra reads because it's going to drive everyone nuts well i think it's like if you're going to be stuck somewhere find new and interesting plot devices to use so great you know because it's fantastic they don't have travel so let's counteract it with bringing more women in and

obviously it worked because it riled these other women up so much. There was something that Anna said, and I'm getting back to her, but... We can bash her all episode. I'm sorry. I just, like, it was so disappointing and kind of disgusting behavior. I have to say, because last week she was saying... Last week I wasn't turned on Anna. Last week I was... No, she seemed fine. Yeah, last week I wasn't turned on Anna last week I was she seemed fine

yeah last week I had like a 180 on her this week pretty much because last week I was actually thinking some of what she said made sense but I think this week with her interaction with Brittany you're talking to your you've already formed an opinion about someone who you have had no direct seemingly interaction with which is is- She said this multiple times. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. At least last week,

I think the women were saying they felt like Sarah was isolating herself or she like, whatever. I'm like, whatever you want to say, at least you're interacting with that person. Anna kept saying, I don't know her. And then what really stuck out to me was when she was talking to Brittany,

when she confronted her about these escort rumors, I think she said something like, I know this is a horrible thing. Thank you. I was just about to. No, she goes, she goes, she goes, I know this is a horrible thing to say. I'm sorry. And the next words out of her mouth were, would you like to address these accusations? Right.

She was like, I'm like, babe, you made what you know, you made them right. How many people are in this conversation? And then at the end, she goes, I'm glad we had this chat. I was like i'm like babe you made what you know you made them right what how many people are in this conversation and then at the end she goes i'm glad we had this chat i was like what no i i i i again i flabbergasted i think anna sucks i think it really seemed to me like she's gotten very swept up in like the environment or something like I I'm not saying that's and I'm not saying that's all of her I'm just saying the person I saw last week to this week it feels like she's just gotten really amped or something like I think her and Victoria together you know how people can sometimes fuel each other's characteristics or something it's like when I was watching that scene of the two of them on the couch and they were just bashing everybody

Victoria by the way is saying stuff at this point where I don't even know i can't even i'm not even totally offended by it because it's so it's ridiculous but but but it's so insane but she is a toxic human like this isn't a perfect episode that and i've said this you know on our ass nick episodes this is a perfect reminder that the brain requires stimulation and it prefers pain to boredom. And Victoria's like living proof that like when people ask when they watch this show, like Victoria's been so outrageous to your point that there are people who's like she must be a paid actor. She must be a producer plant. They don't have to do that. People in this world, in this country are insane enough. And you

get certain people that are so desperate for attention and they'll go about it anyway. And Victoria is proof of this. Like she knows that what she's doing, but she doesn't care because she just loves the attention. She loves the stimulation. She loves being involved in this crap. And there is, and there's no limit. She has, there is no level of like a thing she won't say as long as she's getting attention there was a moment to me and it was a couple weeks ago when you saw her talking to a producer and i was sort of glad they included that because her she was saying to the producer something like see none of them like they don't like me they don't get me and i was like oh no that's so that's i because I've never heard people or not. It's been a minute since I've heard people so strongly say they believed

someone was an actor. And like, I don't think she is. I, I, the stuff she's saying is so, and she's so casual in her. I mean,

she would have to be a Meryl Streep. I would be like, actually, if she is an actor, I'm going to be like, well, get her in movies. She's really good.

Yeah. Totally. She could be the first Oscar winner to come out of The Bachelor because I'm on board. I don't know. But this stuff she's saying is just so over the top that I think I sort of wondered if I was there in person as Katie confronted Victoria. Like, what would I be doing? How would I handle this? like what would I be doing? How would I handle this? Because we're not seeing a ton of the women confront the, the, the people who are saying these things, which is making me wonder,

are they in agreeance? Are they, do they just want to stay quiet? Is Victoria so off the wall that they don't want to risk engaging with her? I I'm, I'm very interested to hear once we get to a tell all where everybody's head is at. We talk a lot about gut health on this show and how important it is for your overall immune system. And Huzzah is making it super easy with their wonderful and delicious probiotic seltzer. What more can I say about a super convenient probiotic that tastes good and helps you feel better, helps you with your digestion? My favorite flavor is the raspberry lemon after I've tried it. It used to be strawberry hibiscus, which is great, but that raspberry lemon

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anyone not part of the mean group is definitely clearly part of Matt's favorites. Like anyone who's part of this mean group, count them out. Like they are not relevant. Even Katie, I don't see it necessarily with Matt. I mean, I've said this the whole time. Like Katie is going to go home the week before hometowns. It's a lock. But, you know, Katie is a voice of reason. She was, you know, so like we only need one voice of reason. We don't need because if we have all these voices of reason, then we don't get the kind of temper tantrum from all these other women. They feel empowered and emboldened to act the way they are. And it's seven against one, not seven against seven. And I think that's kind of why you don't see them.

Yeah. And that's, I'm fairly confident in how that all played out that way. Yeah. You just kind of let it happen. Then it becomes she said, she said, and all this back and forth thing. It's just so interesting to me, like, how much I feel like it escalated to this week. back and forth thing. It's just so interesting to me,

like how much I feel like it escalated to this week, because I guess it's the, it's the device of seeing how they react to totally new people who they don't know. Like when that beauty queen came in and Victoria instantly told her she wasn't the queen took the crown off her head. I mean, I'm, I'm now like reading some direct quotes,

but Victoria had said, Victoria doesn't know Brittany at all. She says Brittany's straight up serial killer vibes. Victoria says Catalina is the dumbest hoe I've ever met. MJ says, if you're telling me the first time that things get hard, pack your bags. Bye. It's like and then maybe my favorite part was when Victoria wanted an apology from Katie because she Victoria called the other women trash was that what had happened Victoria said something like take the trash out

Katie confronted her and Victoria was like I want you to apologize to me because I have the right to express myself completely I mean no Victoria sucks and I don't think she's that smart she got schooled by Katie because like Victoria Victoria Victoria is that type of toxic person that whether it's a boyfriend or a friend, what she does, it's the truth is irrelevant to Victoria. You can't context. All she does is just spit out trash out of her mouth and she does it with

such consistency and she does it where she believes what she, it's like, like all she does is gaslight in a sense because like she is with a lot of people very capable of making everyone think they're they're crazy because they're like this person i'm trying i i most people in this world assume that the average person has a level of like sanity and they're going to say sane things and victoria just says insane things constantly. So you're like, what the fuck is going on? I think that's why I kept writing down. It's

just laughable. I don't think I would have confronted her in this situation because I would have been like, she's so off the wall. I'm not even going there. Props to Katie for like, Katie was the perfect person to have that conversation. She didn't flinch on like, I'm proud of my vibrator. I loved it. I'm like, I'm not going to let you shame me for like being sex positive because I don't, it's tough in that situation. Like sometimes people just like don't know what to say with people who say crazy shit.

And I'm glad that Katie was able to have that conversation. She handled it wonderfully. She was, I mean, obviously Katie was a big star of this episode and she had to fight the group. Katie was our vibe of reason. Yeah. Our vibrator of reason. I also just want to point out Anna who said early on when the women showed up, she said, I'm literally losing my mind or I'm going crazy or something to that effect. If you have the self-awareness to know that you are going crazy, maybe everything that you want to say or do after that might be a bad idea. I don't know. Just take a step back, but no, there there's it's so, I mean,

this episode, I will say, and I was sort of reflecting on i think like when i interview um people before the season the leads i always ask kind of what's the vibe of your season going to be but the thing is the lead sets one vibe and the contestants said another right yeah matt has no idea what's going on in this house right now i i couldn't have when i i think when i asked matt that question he i actually don't't remember what he said, but like Peter season, right? Kind of catty influencers because people remember people were annoyed on Peter Weber season with how much the women were. I thought about that watching this. We're like the tone at the end of Peter season was I kind of hate all these women from Bachelor Nation.

It was like there's really no one to root for. We didn't get a bachelorette out of that. From Bachelor Nation. It was like, there's really no one to root for. We didn't get a Bachelorette out of that. I also think that's why you're not seeing, like there was a clear separation between the cattiness. And I don't think that's going to happen this season. But that's why you had Abigail staying out of the drama.

You had Brie stay out of the drama. So that's what I'm saying. They were kind of protected. They're very much. And again, I'm also assuming they weren't part of that. But we don't know if they defended it. Well, there was some discussion of it last week with Sarah. And what I noticed when Sarah was talking to the women was Abigail said,

but Sarah, we don't know you. And Serena said, Sarah, your behavior is toxic or whatever. And then this week we kind of saw some of those women not involved and we really kind of got isolated to us who are the mean girls. I don't know another word. I was like this, we had catty influencers on Peter's season and this season is the mean girls. So, so mean girls. They're vicious. They're, it, I mean, it was hard. It was hard to watch. I was disgusted and I was disappointed. I was just like, Oh, I'm so disappointed. I'm so disappointed in this behavior.

It's like, I mean, again, I can't say enough just how like there's one thing of not being your best self on that show and letting the environment get the most of you and maybe being a little snarky. But Anna consciously knew what she was doing by spreading this rumor. She said, I know it's a horrible thing to say.

There was a look on her face. I know it's a horrible thing. She was giving an ITM. She's talking to her producer. And I can imagine how this is going out. They're like, well, what have you heard? And when Anna was saying, well, I heard she's an asshole, she's smiling. She just fucking loved the juice.

She was like, you know what? I probably shouldn't, but you know what? It's too good not to. And she said it. She said it with a smile. I just want to point out that sex workers deserve love. Even if Brittany happens to be an escort, you know what? I don't give a shit. Good for her. Be safe. Do your thing. But you know what's most likely the case? She probably does some bottle service in Chicago and she probably meets a lot of people who spend money and she's friends with them so what i mean i don't even want to spend any time trying to defend britney because there's nothing to defend i don't care because whatever

she is like to be called out in that context and called a slut or a whore or any of these names oh my god i forgot that victoria thought oh my god she thought was so clever slore i was like babe this is not like in the bring it on mean girls lexicon of even being a creative insult we gotta we gotta do better you know you seem to be a little more incensed by anna and i'm wondering if it is because of what we're saying of where we're sort of like victoria's so off the wall but anna seems to be a little more grounded in maybe but like I it's more Anna was the one who started that rumor I mean certainly Victoria loved it she led along with it she embraced it and I'm not saying that Anna and Victoria are better or worse than each other they both suck in my opinion but I'm just focusing in Anna because I do think there's a part of victoria that

she's i mean you know she's not a paid actor but i think she's acting out i think she's putting on her own performance i think anna is is just so disillusioned and so in her own needs and in bullshit that she isn't thinking for a second how how harmful her words are and how toxic her behavior is and well that's a huge i don't i don't think here's what's different about victoria anna is i don't think victoria gives a shit whether she's toxic or not i think anna thinks she's actually being righteous. You know what I'm saying? I think that I would give Anna credit that maybe if you like explain this to her, she might feel bad,

but it doesn't excuse her where I don't think Victoria gives a shit. It's the groundedness for me. But she still sucks. She sucks so bad. The thing about an accusation like that is that as Brittany said, and as Katie said, when they,

when Katie was like our, like I was in a sorority, so this is a rough, but you know, you have like a house mom. Katie feels like that vibe to me. Like she's like, let me talk to everybody.

People are, we're getting nods. Good people. Like she's, she's talking to everybody. She's counseling everybody. She's like standing up for for people she's voice of vibe of reasoning it and what they said was so right that this is just this accusation that becomes a she said she said that she can't really defend herself against because properly because anna had anna didn't come with any type

of receipts anna had nothing backing what she was saying. So then it just becomes something you have to talk out and you're not even talking about anything real. That's the problem in that world is that accusations, they don't need like, yeah, I mean, you can choose anyone of anything in that world. You're, you're here to get famous immediately. You're on the defensive immediately. You're, uh, have to, you have to explain why you're not there to be famous or why you're there for the right reasons. And so, you know, that happens, that world, you kind of know what you're signing up for to a certain degree, but this, this accusation of, yeah, this is not the – I mean, I'm personally of the belief that at this point that it's impossible to come on the show without some desire for fame.

Because I just – sorry. Yeah, you're not – Everybody's gray area. There's no black and white. I'm here for love or not. You don't go on the show and you hate attention. Right. Because you know you're going to get it no matter what.

It's impossible to not. Yeah, and that's fine but this is when you're talking about something that can affect somebody's life it just felt bigger it was bigger and it was baseless and i'm interested to see how matt handles it i sort of hate when we get in these moments although i know it's you know it whether it's the bachelor the bachelorette when we get in these moments, although I know it's, you know, whether it's The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, when we get to these moments, which we always have where the lead has to come in and set everybody straight. I'm like, we're all supposed to be adults here. And yet that is why I love watching it. I actually, in that regard, I'm kind of envious of Matt. Oh, you want to go in there?

No, here's the thing. I've said this before. It's just, it's different when you're the bachelor versus the bachelorette. Historically, we, it's, it's, you know, we're okay with the bachelorette coming in and yelling at the men for being, but like, and not that you want to as the bachelor, but you have to be very careful not to be a dick and lecture some bad behavior. Right? not to be a dick and lecture some bad behavior, right? But these women are so toxic and so bad that I think every bachelor gets frustrated. I mean, every bachelorette gets frustrated. And that frustration, you see some of this acting out

and you're just like, yeah, you're frustrated because you want this to work out. Like Matt, again, matt also might like attention and you're certainly aware of baby you know the all the benefits that come with being the bachelor but the sincerity that comes from the lead being like i really want to meet someone is genuine and real and i believe matt sincerity as much as i believe anyone else's the lead wants it and you just you see this behavior like how is this helping me find someone and you get really frustrated so it'll be kind of like fun for matt to be like what the fuck and he he's gonna and he won't look because everyone's gonna be so mad at everyone's gonna be so mad at

those women that matt's gonna be able to be like this is like not what i want and and it he'll be able to send him home it'll be kind of fun because like it's so it's so stressful when you break up with people in that world it's like yeah it's just so stressful and he he gets kind of a free pass and you're you're wishing you had women this bad so that you could have easily confronted the well just can you get an event and just be like you know what because you kind of know you see it you're like you're you guys suck you're not taking this seriously you're you know and you're just like you don't have to put up with it. Matt's going to take some frustration, but he'll be able to release his excuse me, so many amazing women. And now I feel so differently and I'm hoping that this is going to get worked out a little bit with Matt. And then we're going to see,

you know, kind of the, the cream rise to the top again, because that was how I felt after night one, like, God, they're stunning. And they, we've got lawyers here and we've got like some really, really, you know, people with amazing stories but i haven't heard a lot of those like personal stories yet i think it's coming i liked his date with michelle this week we have yeah i mean michelle rock star i mean i loved the the one-on-one there was something about michelle that you know last week we were just like who's going to be top four yeah i can see michelleze being top four. I mean, well, Matt is a great bachelor in the sense that he is really good at –

he has a good poker face, or maybe it's because he's never been in love that he's just like, you're great, and you're great, and let me explain why I could marry you, and let me explain why I could marry you. And I'm just like, who does he like? I think it's harder with other bachelors where you just kind of like hey he's just different around here when like when Ben was with Lauren it was just like I mean he might like and he's nice but like there's he's really different and Matt's able to kind of it's I can't really tell yet I was like Serena

kind of came out of nowhere but Matt was like very complimentary and very focused on her. But with Michelle, I mean, wow, it was like she. He was saying time flies with you. I feel like I've seen all I need to see what I like to be talked about. These real connections they had, like both being athletes and they both work with kids. There was some real grounded foundation to work from in terms of building their relationship. It was it was really nice. I didn't understand the scavenger hunt. I didn't know what they were looking for, where they were going. It doesn't matter. Can't figure out if I'd want to be in a hot balloon,

a hot air balloon that wasn't going anywhere. That was another question I had, but they seemed to have a lot of fun together. And then they were in the car museum. I'm like, we are all over the place on this date. It makes a lot of sense that one of the new women got the next one on one just because it's, you know, going to freak everyone out. That being said, who got that one on one? That's all Matt, right? Matt, clearly Michelle, out of all the women who came out of at least the four, Michelle was. Yeah. His pick.

Right. Brittany, he might think she's attractive. I don't know. I don't really, I don't think she's going to be. Do you think it means anything at this point who he's kissing with his eyes open? No. I can't.

Britney got the widest eyed kiss yet, I thought. I think people make way too big of a deal about this open eyed kiss thing. He was kissing Michelle with his eyes closed. I don't know. Here's what I think happens. I think everyone... Was it really sunny?

It was quite bright. I think everyone, including you and me and your boyfriend, sometimes has their eyes closed and sometimes has it open. I have never opened my eyes during a kiss. I don't buy it. And I think if you had... I'm comfortable in saying this, Lauren, that if you had a camera on you 24-7,

you would see things about yourself that would surprise even you. Things? Sure. I do not have my eyes open during a kiss. I cannot imagine what you're seeing. You've never opened your eyes during a kiss? Well, sometimes you enjoy looking at the things that you find physically attractive.

But when you're up close, all you're seeing is like pores well do you mean if you're kissing someone and you're like and you're not to get all but if you're like where are we at why is it why does making out have to be like braille like you know like why do you have to feel your way around maybe you i don't know because no one looks good that up close because you need to close your eyes to preserve but also like you could be looking down i i think matt's getting some tough luck when it this this i open i'm just saying i think it i actually think it means something i think he got lost in the kiss with michelle the eyes were closed eyes were closed when kissing serena p i'm thinking this is this is a tell maybe and matt's poker well Well, here's a tell of Matt's.

When he says, thank you for sharing. You look pretty. He doesn't like you. Oh, who did you notice that with? He said that to Chelsea. And he kind of says that to, he's like, well, thank you for sharing. You're very pretty. You know, like he clearly is not a dude.

I've interviewed him twice now. Matt is just a very good conversationalist and someone who's really easy to talk to so I do think that that is I think it's like when you go on a date I mean I think we've probably all had dates like this or maybe we went on a date with somebody and like we could keep the conversation going and we're talking and that other person thinks it went really well and we're like oh my god that was such a mediocre date but you know know, I, I, I could talk to a wall if I needed to. I think we might be encountering that with, I think I just talk

to people. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I think he does. He's like, we it's when, with these one-on-ones it's like, I don't know, what does he like? Because he's, he's really, he's very present with all of them and that makes a great bachelor so he's doing a great job that way but i mean i'll tell you what the michelle date that was a great date it was a romantic date they knew like they they knew that date would be like would kind of stimulate a lot of emotion and and those dates are often reserved for for people the lead is potentially really into. I was really impressed with Michelle. In fact, Michelle was, other than Katie, a hero for me this episode because she was very redeeming and very likable

and she seemed to have high character in an episode where there's so much low character and so much like pettiness and nastiness that... Yeah. You know what I also didn't get about any of it was just even the point. And that's what raised questions for me, because if you're going to get angry or confront someone about stealing time from you,

okay, well at least that's because you're, I don't know, because they wronged you personally in some way you feel, or because you feel like you want to get more time with these women kept saying it's new versus old, the new girls versus the OGs. And I was just thinking, in some way you feel or because you feel like you want to get more time with these women kept saying it's new versus old the new girls versus the ogs and i was just thinking why this is not so ridiculous amazing race it's not a team competition why are you doing this what's the point you got

that you got that with the taysha's guys too oh yeah this this is like on steroids this is like very concentrated and more impactful but you got a little bit of that even some you know when I was you know talking to Noah and and talking to some of like the guys they even kind of referenced it's like you know there's a there is a bond right sure like I certainly like when I showed up on Caitlin's season it was like there's this weird you know you're not part of the cool group, the in group. There's a you did experience. Yeah, there's a there's a camaraderie there. But this it was, you know, at least I crashed it.

Like these women know it's a covid world. They they know, especially Anna, that like they've been waiting. And it was multiple women brought in by the show. It wasn't I came and crashed the date of my own, you know, apparent accord. It was like, no, we're bringing in. I mean, Chris came in. We're bringing in new women. This is what's happening.

So, yeah. And again, but it's just it doesn't do you any good to be like it's us versus them is not going to get you anywhere. It's not that type of competition show. So it made no sense to me. But, you know, we liked Michelle. I thought Michelle was fantastic. And then, so we had the one-on-one date.

Yes. We also had the group date where they raced in the pumpkins. And poor Maggie was just out there paddling around. Interesting. What happened there? And I like her. and I want to see more of her listen she's we've never had a cast person you know she's from like literally Ethiopia so you know the diversity in this this season's been fantastic like even Chelsea talking about

kind of her childhood experience uh you know why she cut her hair was i don't know like i i learned something you know and that's cool to kind of just hear different people's perspective that we don't get to usually see on the show i love maggie uh maggie you know certainly but like clearly there's a disconnect there between maggie and and yeah here's what i don't get about maggie being off in like the corner of the lake which isn't even a thing but that felt like a metaphor for where things are at with her and Matt. She's like, really? Like she's sweet and we like watching her, but Matt's like, Maggie, I can't find you in the lake. I don't know. It's like, whoa. Here's what I don't get. She's a pharmacist. She's clearly had to take a lot of chemistry classes. It's in the kind of the science group and you saw her

paddle. And while maybe she's not great at physics okay she can't be that inept with physics that like you're talking about her awareness of water her awareness of like paddling we're like she's gonna skim just a little bit of water like just like take a pause maggie look at the situation and and think about how you might row yourself to shore. She's clearly smart. She was so cute. I was just like, I love this little moment of levity and a little humor because I needed it amongst all this. Ben Higgins couldn't have said it's a foot race to the finish more

if his life depended on it. He really wanted to make sure we knew the rules in this strange fall into love competition. My favorite shot of it was when Victoria wound up in the squirrel costume just on her hands and knees digging through the leaves. I felt that we needed that, and I was glad that they gave that to us. I'm a little surprised that, is it Mari? Yes.

She's gorgeous. I thought she had some villain vibes. I thought she would be in the drama, and I thought it was interesting that she wasn't because we haven't seen her really have any time with matt so i don't like there's she stands she's kind of falling in the middle yeah i think honestly i think she's gonna she's gonna be gone soon like like clearly he likes brie brie getting the group date rose was hey i still care i like you don't you know the group the group date roses are you

know they're kind of tools like they're you know, imagine, like, everyone probably likes Brie. She's not part of the drama. They get it, right? But if he gave it to one of the new girls, oh, my God. But instead of doing that, he gave it to Brie because we still, this show is still about love. Yes. And they're always going to walk a fine line between like

making everyone lose their mind and allowing that to find love and brie getting that rose was significant for brie in that don't lose your mind right just so you know i like you yes and and so brie already having a one-on-one and a group date rose is significant. And, you know, I keep, I don't know, but like, so we have Chelsea, we have Lauren, they've also got group date roses. Usually, if you go back and watch prior seasons, that's kind of a preview of a potential one-on-one coming up. It's like, hey, it's not your time yet. Here's a, you know, but I got i gotta say i'm just surprised the chelsea three thing threw threw me off because regardless of she actually said it or not that's how they aired it and it made her very unlikable wait said what when katie again was lecturing the group oh yeah and sound

and and the only kind of the only sanity that was coming out of anyone's mouth was from Katie. And they showed Chelsea sounding very petty and sounding very catty. And they made it look like Chelsea was part of the mean girl group. Yes. And so to me, and then you look at the fact that she had some specific time with Matt and then she got a group date Rose. Those were kind of two. It was like a juxtaposition of like i'm very confused that the show has me confused and like what are you trying to tell us about chelsea like are we you know what i'm saying like

is there something else there i'm also interested just because matt again wasn't on the shows before i'm like how you know it's interesting to see who he's giving roses out to where without him having ever been a contestant before and being like a little new to it all you know it's making me like i agree i was surprised by the chelsea rose i was kind of surprised by the brie rose honestly i thought that i didn't know she would have needed that reassurance that quickly i mean but good to give it to her i the brie doesn't surprise me because i think Matt likes her and everyone needs reassurance. And you don't want to happen to Brie what happened to Sarah. I mean, I don't think Brie's capable of doing what Sarah did, but everyone's human in that world.

It's very confusing and you need validation, especially if there's an expectation of falling in love and even considering getting engaged and things like that. But yeah, I am confused about the Chelsea one because is Lauren and Chelsea going to get one-on-ones? Maybe, probably. I'm just more confused by the pettiness that we saw from... A little bit... Lauren was one of the girls that were... She was...

Preferably petty? She was in that group and she had some. That's what I'm saying. It's hard to tell. Like this episode did help me notice who I zoned in on as like, oh, you're really saying some wild stuff. But there are some who are like we've seen Serena C say a few things. There have been some people that have said a few things, but not a ton of things. The only thing that I remember Serena saying is when the girls first showed up, she was like, hey, listen.

We're like we're just all fucked up in the head right now and you know it seemed like Serena was trying to just like almost be helpful yeah and I it didn't seem very mean girlish uh but like MJ very disappointed MJ because I thought MJ was like kind of a very nice I thought like I thought MJ had a lot of Katie in her where you know like she's probably nice and sweet and cool and down to earth but MJ seems to have a pretty nasty side to her you know I don't I it makes me want to go back and look at everything again I keep thinking about how the there just wasn't reason for it you know like there what these women came in and there wasn't a reason to go this viciously for them and the ones who did go this viciously it shines a spotlight on like on who they are i guess are there any women that we didn't hear from about the drama that haven't got any attention from Matt.

Because like you can make like Rachel, Brie, Abigail, they've all had some sort of validation. Serena, validation. Yesenia, class act. She had all the reason in the world to like we found one so just cheers to jessenia you know as a shout out to jessenia big shout out uh maggie shout out to maggie shout out to maggie did she legend has it she's still out there on the lake yeah yes um so anyone who hasn't had any mat time who wasn't part of the penance, I just want to say congratulations. You're a decent, good human natured person.

And anyone else, fuck you. I mean, it's just like, does that talk? I was so nasty. It was so such nasty behavior. Hard pivot right now. Do you think Matt has worn more turtlenecks than you did? I only wore one. Listen,

it felt like you wore more. Maybe it was a powerful. It was, it was, it was a very, it was a, it was thick. It was,

it was, it was unforgettable. It was a hot and you had me like looking, it was itchy. Matt looks good in a turtleneck. So good for him. I'm wearing one right now. Yeah. Clearly he likes them. He he's he's embraced them

and i mean he looks he looks good in them so i've sure no no criticism how you felt about passing on the mantle of like the eternal frank bachelor uh i don't think i wore it as well as as some of the other ones but i also think they've like i didn't i didn't particularly love my my turtleneck i did you did yes it was just really it was really it was really hot no you should wear more um we got in the promo this sort of west side story-esque walking moment where the two i think everybody was out on a power walk and they it was like two sets of women were walking past each other like, it's the new girls versus the old girls. I was like, what is happening? What I'm now interested to see is if next week the new girls show a vicious side.

Is it going to become this war? And how quickly will Matt extinguish it? And who will make it out alive? I don't know. It's interesting, but I want to also point out that this is the women, right? And I'm only pointing this out because look at last season, Tayshia's season and Claire's season. Very different season.

You had an older group of men. It's harder to get those, you know, like maybe people who are like, this is a younger group and Katie's 29 and Katie'sie's like one of the furious 27 same one um and so you have like that's why you know like when noah was quote unquote the villain you had me being like this guy's not a villain he's just he's just like well i'm not a believer in the age thing because then you had somebody like serena peen i think she's 23. It's not a hard line. I'm just saying in general, the group of men were more, were more mature age or not than this group of women. And so you had, you, you didn't have a lot of drama. You didn't have this petty nastiness. And I'm listen, if the guy, like if the producers could have got

that out of them, they would have loved it. But it's just hard to do. You can't make them be so petty that these women, and I only point it out because it is so ridiculous, and we've driven this point home, how these women have fully embraced this, like, you know what? Just give me a reason to hate someone. Really? They showed up three weeks after me? Good enough.

I fucking hate someone. Really? They showed up three weeks after me? Good enough. I fucking hate you. You know, like that's how they're acting and they just needed a reason to hate someone. And that's just immature and nasty. And you got that on such a smaller fraction with Tayshia's guys. And that just is a testament to the maturity of those men versus the maturity of some many of these women

you know i don't believe that i mean i'm thinking back on how uh gosh with claire and dale people were like dale was forced to propose i don't i i think that editing can happen of course as it does with any tv show but can you they couldn't it's not like we're frank inviting and editing all this stuff together to make these there. There's a built in pressure. I mean, clearly. Well, I mean, listen, Chris with with Claire and Dale, that was as aggressive of a. So here's a ring. I don't know what you want to do with it. Kind of like I was actually surprised with Claire and Dale just how much it made it seem like Chris was almost pressuring the engagement.

I was surprised to see it. I pressuring the engagement. I was just surprised to see it. I was surprised they aired it. You know what I'm saying? Because in my experience, it's just, everyone's kind of like, I mean, it sounds nuts,

but I guess I'll do it. You know, like it's never been so in like, it's never, I've never seen it in so many other people's faces. I've never seen it in my face. Like there was a pressure. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. It face like well there was a pressure yeah don't get me wrong it was like there was a pressure that that came from just knowing what the show was about but it was never like like when chris was like hey like chris talked to claire

chris talked to neil lane this is how they aired it which i just found it was fascinating and then he talked to dale everyone knew dale was gonna propose except for dale that's how it came across i don't know if that's how it went down well i don't know i mean i don't know when all the different conversations happened but regardless of like when he taught i i mean claire was claire wanted dale so i guess i always looked at it as he said claire wants to be with you so you know now it's like the only option here would be if you want to do this this is like where Claire's at that's I mean Claire said when Chris said what do you is what you want next a proposal Claire said that's the dumbest question you've ever asked

oh I don't I don't I'm just more like Dale shows up on I I mean, they can just talk about Dale and Claire for a moment. Sure. But I don't, you know, a lot of rumors out there. Dale showed up on a season as naive as anyone, right? Regardless of he wants fame versus, you know, whether Chasen or Ed or Noah, you know, like his desire for fame more than, you know, Matt or, you know, all these guys who, you know, go on the show like we talked about.

Yeah. Claire decided she liked Dale. And Claire is very aggressive with her feelings. She makes it very known. She's very direct. What was Dale going to do in that situation? The criticism about Dale, like what was his intentions were i he was put i don't know dale i don't know anything about dale but i he he was put in an insane situation that i

just trying to imagine what it would be like having been in that world like i can imagine what it i can see how confused and I don't doubt that he liked Claire, but it was kind of like most of the time people take this leap of faith after nine weeks of, and he did it in like two. And he's like, I guess I like you. And I'm just saying that's an insane, an insane situation. And then he, and then he got to know Claire afterwards. I mean, I just just I feel for Dale in

that regard you're right that that I we feel for Dale and the shows the show's a reality show yeah I know but I'm just you know that was a very unique situation where I was watching it and being like what is Dale gonna do it was kind of like Cassie and Colton oh it was like what do you do with a bunch of cameras on you in the lead of the show who's kind of in charge or it feels like that to you is like kind of saying this is what I want. It's very hard to go against the grain. I'm not saying Cassie didn't like Colton. I'm not saying Dale didn't like Claire. I'm saying that probably wouldn't have been their choice and that was never going to happen.

But if the conversation went to Dale first, but whatever you want, man, it's cool. Whatever you want, Cassie, it's cool. I think the outcome would have been very different. I think it was in those situations, they were the last to know. And they're like, you know, I like you. But you don't know when, like, I just,

I guess I'm just also going back to what you said before. I don't know the order of all the conversations. I don't know. I i i just i guess i'm just also going back to what you said before i don't know the order of all the conversation i don't know i don't know either i'm just the order of the conversations or like what doesn't make it onto air what more happens in conversations so it's also hard to say it's more specifically to like what colton and and claire wanted and it's just kind of a it's just like like the people go on this show know very little and it's just all. Dale made his own choice to get engaged, but I don't think he would have done it if it was presented differently to him. That's all. And I think Claire's is anyone to blame for that because it was.

Yeah, I guess we also have to believe that adult people have their own faculties about them. Dale's a 32 year old guy, you know, he's a, I mean, we can't be like, you do what you want to do. And also. I'm not saying Dale, I just, Dale made his, yes, Dale. I'm not saying Dale was forced to get engaged by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just saying it's kind of like, I guess, fuck it. We'll see what happens.

I feel quite, yeah, sure. I think we're, we're both saying the same thing. Yeah, probably. Yeah. It's just, it's just kind of, it mates for a mess. He said it was, I guess when it comes to Clarendale, it was always going to end this way. I feel like, Oh, I agree. Right. Yes. I think so. I mean, with them breaking up. Yes. I think so I I mean with them breaking up yes I think so yeah yeah I guess I just feel bad for you know the like what like who knows about like do you know if Dale was cheating on Claire as far as I know he was not okay and what were you and where are these rumors coming from I don't know I coming from Claire? I don't know.

As far as I know, Dale was, I mean, it's been like so much back and forth. I'm not even 100% sure that I'm updated on all the headlines across all the outlets. But the reporting that we had in Entertainment Tonight was that Dale did not cheat on Claire at all. And that he had real feelings for Claire. And that the, but then things got to an unhealthy place in the relationship. And, you know, I, uh, I think that I always really want, I remember saying on your podcast,

I really wanted to interview them together, but they didn't do interviews after there. Uh, I think they did a really quick thing on GMA and they did a, a people magazine spread, but, uh, they didn't do a lot of interviews and I really wanted to talk to them both together. I had questions, but you know, here we are. I don't, I'm not surprised by the outcome, but I wish them both the best and we'll see what's next for the, the Dale Moss brand and the Claire Crawley love story. Probably not much for either. I don't know. I mean, I wish, I hope Claire

finds her love. She deserves it as much as anyone. You had a chance to interview Sarah. Yes. She certainly made in one episode of a lasting impression in terms of how she handled it. There was obviously her story about her father. It, you know, again, kind of almost came across as her father while I get why she left it's not really why she left she left just she got bullied out of the house but it also sarah came across as a drama queen like and i was curious what you thought of it especially after having a chance to talk to her yes having a chance to talk to her you know i think people when you do get a minute to interview somebody then you

I mean of course you see the more human side of them sure you're talking to them in person instead of them being on a tv screen um I like I had to ask her some tough questions because I think the viewers had tough questions for her after watching her ultimately I asked her why did you leave and she said her family was the reason that she left that's what she said you're you look to the side you have questions let me what did you think what was your take because i didn't get it let me get yours before i explain you can't believe her father was the reason she left because her father was sick when she came on many of these women as we talked about have proven to be very nasty aggressive bullies and they flat out threatened her and bullied her out of the house yeah fine i think sarah was guilty

in the sense that she clearly came across as someone who is used to getting attention used to eating what she wants uh she just creates her own she was she's a drama queen and then faced the wrath of these women and thought i don't want to deal with this this is not going how i expected my dad like and like it's like her dad like was the reason it was i i buy the fact it's like why would i like i'm just you know what i'm just put it in just put things into perspective for me yes but i do think had she not been bullied had she been welcomed had she asked were you prepared to stay for two months and she said yes okay so i think that that's true i would my summation of it would be that what you just said is right that it put things in perspective for her like if this is what i'm experiencing why am i here when i should be home the women made a fatal mistake is like sarah was sarah's decisions and actions were very wrong

in terms of how she disengaged from the group and like completely just acted like no one else was gonna she couldn't handle that let people bury themselves in a sense. Let people dig their own grave. And the women made a very big mistake on Sarah was wrong, but because they were so nasty, then you made her look sympathetic because of the situation she's going in. Had they not been so mean to her, Sarah would have been very unlikable

and very much the villain. And that's the mistake these women made because you're like, who's the villain? And things like that. Had Sarah stayed, had they not bullied her, we would hate Sarah. If I'm a viewer, we would be very much not team Sarah. She would be very much the villain.

The focus would be on Sarah. They would all, and now that Sarah is gone, that's why you have this kind of, you know, sharks versus jets kind of. I'm so ready for you to be a producer, Nick. Are you ready? I'm just here to critique. When are you going to sign on? They don't need me.

But yeah, I mean, the women should have just shut their mouths and let Sarah suck. And they now put the target on their backs. And here we are. We're all... And here we are. And by the way, well then, honestly, kind of the reverse happened because Sarah took a step back and now these other women have revealed more about themselves.

Like, I feel totally differently about Anna this week than I did last week. Yeah. It's really interesting. Trash. Before, she was like, just someone Matt wasn't into. Yeah. It's really interesting. Trash. Before she was like, this is someone Matt wasn't into. And now she's a trash human. Yikes. I have no problem saying that. Listen, if you're certain of this, maybe Anna's listening to this. Certainly someone Anna knows is listening to this. A cousin, a friend. They're going to go back to Anna. And I'm going to give you some advice to give to Anna. Okay. When you go on tell all, don't justify our actions.

Just apologize. Own up to what you did. Go on and say, I've watched it back. I'm disgusted with my behavior. No one should act that way. It was like, say all the things. Own it. Own it.

I always say own it. And that's all you should do. I hope that Anna watches it and is just as disgusted with how she looks as we are. I hope she doesn't blame the show or blame producers, et cetera, et cetera, because things were condensed. But she clearly said these things. I hope that she does. I don't expect that from Victoria.

There's no way. And that's where victoria and i might be slightly better because i i hope that's k anna's capable to groudon this that you talked about like victoria there's no way i don't i could say i could tell victoria to apologize she's coming out guns a-blazing at tell all i promise you that there's no way there's no way she'll be contrite okay Okay. Zero chance. Okay. There will be more of the same. It will be the Victoria show of just nonsense. And then we'll see her on Paradise with a crown made of seashells.

Probably. I hope not. Because, like, listen, as a viewer, I'm thankful for Victoria in that sense. She's great TV. She'll be in our top 10, you know, our power rankings because she is a prominent character. Well, if she's going to go on paradise, you,

there has to be some believability that people would, anyone would want. Well, that's what I'm saying. She might be, she might have really burned out because, you know, a lot of times in paradise,

you like to see the kind of country, like the, the redemption story. There's nothing redeeming about Victoria. You know what? But I'm really a believer that, like I'll give you a second chance if you apologize. You know?

I mean, I'm- I just don't think she has it in her. Yeah. I think Anna does. I was speaking of another Victoria because people keep being like, we had two Victorias back to back. Victoria Fuller on Peter Weber's tell all what a 180 what a just

mature owning things uh like i would and i remember being captivated by that because i think we all love a redemption story but yeah but if you go back and watch yeah victoria on peter season you can't even compare the two victoria's saying'm just saying, I'm going to sit here and say it. If Queen Victoria comes on the tell-all and if she apologizes and she says all the things you just told Anna to say, I'll give her a second chance. I will. So you're saying all she has to do is show up

and just say, I'm sorry. How do you... What's the difference between what you just said and that? I'm saying if she shows you, what's the difference between what you just said and that I'm saying, if she shows up at the tell all, if she gives real heartfelt apologies to many women, if she talks about how, what she's learned from her behavior,

how wrong she was. Yes. I would give her a second chance. Cause I think people deserve second chances. I agree with you there, but because like you said, and on the ground in this, Victoria Fuller on Peter season.

Right. You're just saying you don't think Queen Victoria is capable. You don't think we're going to see it. The rumor mill for, like I'm just kind of disgusted with Anna knowing that she's spreading this toxic rumor. That being said, she even said,

I'm losing my mind. Fine. But Victoria, Victoria Fuller was losing her mind the whole damn time and again that's not an excuse for sometimes for for acting but victoria the queen victoria's not losing her mind at all oh no i know it's i mean as i said i'm not so if she apologizes i guess i have a far more follow-up questions to be like are you really sorry are you just like you know what i'm saying? Like, I don't know. I don't know what she would have. She could say for me to be like,

okay, I, I don't think she will. So I don't think we're gonna have to worry about it. But I, if she does, then I will, that I'll be,

then why? Because Anna can go on and say, I was so insecure. I was like, but if, if, if the queen does that she she has been toxic since she got out of limo and and anna has but there have been moments when like when she did

her little erotic love story the other women were cheering for her and laughing the women like her yeah so it's the me like the group kind of sucks like victoria is not the only trash person there. There's a lot of trash people. Look, she said to Katie, I can express myself however I want and say whatever I want. I'm not holding my breath for an apology. I'm just saying that I'll give people a second chance.

I will. Generally, I am too. I just don't know what Victoria can say to get me to believe her. Well, I guess we're going to find out who's your top four. Uh, that I think Matt's going to pick,

you know, we did this by the way, you put Spencer in the top four and clear and tasteless. I did. Yeah. And I told you, I didn't think that that was going to happen. I guess.

I, I've been very spoiler free the past few seasons. It's been fun guessing. I am. I'm, you guessing. I bet like 75%. Spencer, fall from grace. Fall from grace. He had one episode. I think that in terms of who I think Matt seems to like,

obviously Bree. I think he really liked Serena P. Really likes Michelle. Rachel, he seems to still be very into. I think there's a couple maybe that we still haven't seen yet. Kit, he... I asked him about Kit in an interview, and he kind of gave a big smile when he was talking about her,

but we haven't seen a ton of her the last couple episodes, so I'm interested in what happens. We always see a little bit. Yeah, because I... She did make one pretty mean comment to sarah but she wasn't really involved in the drama this week i think matt did have kind of a moment with jessenia i don't know what would happen we didn't see her as we said involved in the drama this week maybe more from jessenia he did kiss her with his eyes we have a piper who i was last last week, I kind of thought was like just going to be gone. Striking when she like I she really caught me off guard.

She she looked very good in that that gown. She's very striking. And then Matt and her had a nice conversation, which was like, OK, this is not nothing. So like I definitely could be wrong on Piper being like a non, like not relevant. I think she had a nice moment and she's very, very beautiful. And she definitely got more air time. So I'm curious to see if maybe something happens with Piper.

I was very just thrown off by the Chelsea group date rose. But maybe, who knows? Matt's thrown, I agree. Matt has a poker face. I don't think we'll see Katie in the top. I think they have like a friend vibe. I haven't seen any chemistry. The only thing I'm certain about this season is that Katie is going to go home the week

before hometowns. Wow. Okay. The rest. He put it in writing. I've never been more certain about anything in my life. I have never been more certain that Victoria Fuller or never been more certain that Queen Victoria will emerge the fan favorite.

You think she's gonna be a fan favorite i'm being funny let's just go insane nick that's how i feel right now with this show well that's a good thing they're keeping us on our toes on our toes so my my top four last last week was the same except i put serena in there because my whole thing last week was the same, except I put Serena in there. Because my whole thing last week was she caught us off guard, but that was a date where she didn't have a sad story kind of thing. So if you're on a date and there's no tragic story, there's a good chance it leads into you. I thought they had some of the best conversations I've ever seen on the show, period. But then Michelle kind of had a very similar date.

Just a nice, normal, well-rounded person. And there's nothing wrong with a sad story, but like we do love our sad stories. And so if you have a sad story, you might get an opportunity to express it, especially if there's some interest. And then Michelle, so you get Michelle and Serena P. Right now, I mean, Michelle, I'm a huge fan of.

She came out, I just think she's really, she almost seems like how did they find Michelle? Like why did she agree to go on the show? Because Matt is the most desirable bachelor there's ever been in history and a record number of women applied. And he is the 25th milestone bachelor and I can just keep going. But I think she's's she's great and so i guess right now i'm gonna put michelle in my top four but who knows i'm confident in the rachel

brie and abigail oh my god i don't think i said abigail god where i like abigail but yeah she'll right now this this is all about the drama and And yeah, I will say Abigail's been like, get the first impression, Rose. It's totally fine that like, she's not getting a ton of airtime now. We can kind of sideline her while the drama goes on. And we certainly want to keep her away from it. But she definitely needs,

she needs a group date, Rose, or a one-on-one pretty soon. Otherwise, I'm going to get a little worried about that prediction. But because we haven't seen a ton of her, but I think she's too likable. And her story is, you know, just great. I also want to see more of Kit because she's like Cynthia Rowley's daughter. Do you know this? I've heard. I don't know who Cynthia Rowley is, but I know she's somebody. She's a I just want to hear more about Kit's life. That's all. No, I agree. But I think Kit's generally kind of immature.

I know people who have met her and they're... In the Chicago social scene? No, New York. Just... Because I was like, who... Tell me, what do you know? And they're just like, she was fine. Not very impressionable.

Not offensive. Just... Eh. Well, I can't wait to see what happens on the next episode of matt and the mean girls our new favorite sitcom i'm entertained this season and so if nothing else they're doing their job oh we didn't even talk about it we don't have much we don't have any time but the boxing we didn't talk about boxing and i just got to say they were really hitting each other oh my gosh that Oh my gosh. That was.

Did you. Because we've seen like on. Were you on Caitlyn's season when it was this wrestling date? No, I missed all that. That was great. I missed the boxing. I missed the wrestling. Have. Was it surprisingly aggressive to you?

Did you feel like they were hitting on a level harder than you thought they were? On this? Yes. Yeah. They were like going for each other's faces i was like i could never do this i would be like can we can we do like a slam poetry battle like this is so i was surprised by how hard our girl katie went in this oh that yeah katie no katie's katie is not afraid of anything i guess it seemed like everybody really had some aggression to work out.

And Matt went ahead and ended it. I think we needed to end it. Well, once one of his favorites got hit in the face, he was like, all right, shut it down. Not Serena P. And it also felt like them getting that aggression out didn't really do anything. I thought they were going to come back a little toned down.

No, didn't really do anything. No. Well, anyway, Lauren, thank you so much. Always a pleasure to be recapping these episodes with you. I hope, you know, it's weird. I want the drama to continue. I hope that some of these women are able to redeem themselves because it was a very disappointing.

And I was very disappointed. I feel like this like. I feel like they needed to bring you in and they're i was very disappointed i feel like this like i feel like they needed to bring you in and be like nick is disappointed no i would never have stopped him i would have let it play out but i'm still be like i'm disappointed in you it's it's great tv but i know it's i i'm excited to see where next week goes in terms of if some of the new women show like viciousness of their own or if this gives an opportunity for these new women to really take a step up because the ogs are being so over the top mean well it'll be really interesting if they try going after michelle because i think abe michelle is above that drama and matt really likes her and i think that's where

you know when Matt steps in, you know, that's for, but I think it might just be enough to be like, hey, they're spreading toxic rumors about being an escort and I was going to shut it down real quick. There was so much to talk about this episode that we wanted to read excerpts from Chris's book. Do you read them to Chris?

Does he read them to you? I think I'm going to start making him read them to me. One regret he has is he wishes he'd done the audiobook version himself, so maybe we'll see that in the future. Wait, he didn't? He didn't. But there is.

No, because he wrote this a few years ago. People have been messaging me asking if it's me on the cover. It's not. He wrote this a couple years back. Let's see if... Yeah, please just read to us whatever you find. And he wrote this whole thing by himself no ghost writer or anything like that i don't know this was before we were together

this had like a resurgence um let's just let's just i've i've flicked to a random page here he won't catch me it's not catching you i'm worried about he's a hell of a shot you know oh god there's guns okay wow it's the oklahoma and um the texas oh gosh okay flip to another page i just can't believe i'm kissing you he murmured it's like you're not real this is some kind of dream and in a few more minutes i'm gonna wake up back up back home. I'm real, she said. I'm a promise. I'm real if you are. Okay. Okay.

Make sure to check out Chris's book. Okay. Oh, I want to be real. All right. Well, thank you for having me to your home. Thanks for coming. I can't wait to get the tour right when we're done here. I'm about to see what Nick Vial's bedroom looks like. There you go.

I'll report back. Okay. Thank you guys for listening. As always, tune in tomorrow for Ricky Williams in astrology, horoscopes, and life. You will not want to miss that. Go check out our Ask Nick episodes. Send in your questions at asknickatcasby.com,

Cas with a K. Thank you for putting up with any technical difficulties we might have on this episode given that we had a power hours at the studio so hopefully things all come together and we should be back in there um next time other than that um thank you thank you for having me oh where can people find you you can follow me at lauren zima on all the social platforms and, um, check out roses and Rose, which is my bachelor review show. It is not a podcast. It's a show show.

It's on entertainment tonight's YouTube channel. Let's go see, uh, let's go. Let's go see Nick Biles house. Let's go check out the actual Bachelor Mansion.