The Viall Files - E233 Ask Nick - He Is Getting Off On The Attention

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

On todays episode Esther Povitsky returns to help us  take your questions but not before she jumps in and tries to get all the answers from Nick about his relationship. We then  first start with a woman who after receiving mixed signals and a lack of communication with someone she has been dating for 4 years wonders if the relationship has come down to an ultimatum. Our next caller is struggling with the friendship her boyfriend has with his ex-girlfriend after finding out that the ex does not know about her. We then speak with someone who is re-entering the dating world after divorce and is trying to figure out if she likes him or just falling into her pattern of trying to define the relationship. Our last caller has been in a relationship for 6 years, they met when they were 19 and although the issue begins with their current politics and belief systems we find out there is a deeper issue.  “Show him what he lost.“ Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Apostrophe: http://www.apostrophe.com/VIALL  and use code VIALL for  $15 off your first visit  Freshly: http://www.freshly.com/VIALL  $40 off your first 2 orders  Fittrack: http://www.fittrack.com/VIALL for 50% off plus an additional 30% off when you use code BUILD30  Caviar: Download the app to get 20% off your first order with promo code VIALL    Episode Socials:  Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall Esther Povitsky @esthermonster See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files I am your host Nick joined by Chrissy over in Montana we have the social syndicate in the studio today amanda this group is getting big yeah it's turning into it's a team it's a full team it's a full team we have a wonderful uh ask nick episode for you mostly because of our special ask Nick guest Esther Hovinsky who has been on the vile files before and uh once in a while we'll have a guest on that we will immediately think you would be great at giving relationship advice and uh we've been talking about doing this for some time and so here we are Esther welcome back thank you for having me I'm so happy to be back I Nick I just feel like we have such good energy we have good vibes between us like I just I was so

I woke up to him like I'm so happy to see Nick why I don't know why I'm so happy I agree and we haven't talked about this before I feel like it's because what I like about you is that you have a moderate to low energy. And I like that because I do too. And some people are uncomfortable around other people who are chill. You know what I'm saying? People are like, am I not making you feel super excited? Right. Do you not like me?

Yeah. And I think we're both comfortable with that. And our energy levels are on the kind of same that is so true i would not have picked that up but no when i first started doing stand-up people were like oh you're really dry and i was like really what's dry and then i was oh i am dry i didn't even notice i had no idea um yeah how how are you what's going on i'm great yeah not too much not much going on okay i saw a like a paparazzi photo of you i was like what's going like what's the deal do you have a girlfriend is this real you're mad he's mad at me he's mad don't be mad no i'm not i'm not mad esther um the good news is this is my show i guess i

could edit out of it um no i'll have to uh talk to her but i was annoyed by that just because two two things that annoyed me is that they were apparently the paparazzi waiting outside my house which seems but i think what annoyed me most is that every time you get shot by the paparazzi there's always a few people who are always like you staged that oh that sucks and i think to myself at least give me the credit to know that i'm vain enough that if i were to stage a paparazzi shot I would have like looked more attractive in the photo and I would have like been smiling and we would have like been super affectionate you know like why would I why would I stage a photo and and and look like that I'm so jealous though I've come to the realization that I'm at a place in my career where the only way I'll ever get paparazzi

to chase me is like if something really bad happens to me like if I kill if I kill with Nick on this journey before there was like a car that straight up like pulled up in front of the restaurant we were walking out of stopped put the camera out the window and just kept going and I was like what goes on who are you I have my neighbors we get paparazzi in our neighborhood, and I'm always so excited. I'm like, oh, my God. Maybe they'll think I'm Harry Styles. No, it's super annoying. No, but, yeah, what's going on?

Are you – is it secret or is it – No, it's – well, that's also another funny thing. People have suspected that I've been in a relationship. All my friends and families that I want to know like all know things and people are just like why aren't you telling us and i'm like who are you that i would tell you um yeah i uh i'm in a relationship it's fun it's great i'm super happy that's so exciting yeah do you feel like is this a big deal for you what do you mean like i don't know is your life different is like do you feel like is this a big deal for you what do you mean like i don't know is your life different is like do you wake up in the clouds or are all gone or yeah yeah or is it just i don't know in my own way yes yeah because i'm a very uh low energy person i have those moments of of gratitude and and thankfulness of of

being happy yeah so there's you know those moments of like you're really great oh and i'm really happy you're you're a part of my life kind of thoughts for sure that's cool are you guys ready for a double date can me and dave come over uh yeah you know we'll do all the appropriate covid of course yeah no she's been she's been vaccinated she's in health care so oh that's so cool is that why you're dating her did you meet her on a vaccinated dating app i love that she is passionate about what she does that's cool yeah that's really cool she's uh she's cool that way can i know what she does she's a she's a surgical tech

wow that's hot yeah do you think so well it's always it's attractive especially in hollywood where we all live it's like it's always attractive when someone is passionate and cool and dedicated to what they do and it's not just like a lifestyle that leads to posting selfies on yeah what i like about it is that i know nothing about it yeah i couldn't do it yeah i can't speak to it i can't even try to sound smart to it right um and that's really quite impressive i also realized that i what i uh between the two of us i am easily the most dramatic like i'm the drama queen oh my god and that is the first time i've ever experienced that and i think that's really great that is awesome like i'm and i'm not i don't i wouldn't consider myself necessarily a drama queen

but i'm definitely being the two of us way more dramatic and she is the voice of reason well that which is a breath of fresh air that's important because you and i are both performers you know you host this show and like i do stand up and stuff and it's good for us both to have a partner who is a little more grounded in reality and is not like the star you know you're not like chasing you're not competing for the spotlight or whatever yeah no she's uh she's great she might have the most the highest amount of character i've had in anyone i've dated really and i've had a bit that that's that's not a disrespect anyone i've ever dated she's you know how they say like when

you're no one's looking kind of the sign of true character she gets she's very she's always present with what's going on in the world and like just let the girl like do you ever notice you're from chicago yeah illinois do you ever when you move to la do you notice how like people don't put grocery carts back and yes and i've i'm i'm like i think i'm a good person but i'm not so great and my character's not so high that i just kind of conform to what people do in in la and it she doesn't like she's always helping people out she'll like stop and get cart she's oh and then she'll like she's she's like taking three carts at a whole foods and like put them in the and it's just it's just so wonderful

it's so hot no it's so attractive though. I'm always like. When someone's a good person, it's such an attractive quality that like you kind of forget to look for. No. Because it sounds so cheesy when you're just like, you know, you make me. But she does make me want to be better. Because it's like, you see this,

like I should do that. Those are little things. Like why don't I do stuff like that? That's so cool. Where did she grow up? Not in LA. Yeah yeah that's the key there's some anonymity that yeah because like she's not you you know yeah she shouldn't be on um yeah so yeah but also there was a it's funny one of our callers today, there was a, reminded me of, I guess, because we hung out for a while. And we weren't boyfriend or girlfriend.

I think we both had a reluctance about whether we should date. Oh, wow. You both had it. Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, well, that's what's weird. In a normal day, we were just like, I don't know. You both had it. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I mean, well, that's what's weird in a normal day. We're just like, I don't know. I don't know. We met and and then we were we had fun.

And can I ask how you met? She slid into my DM. Oh, it was very romantic. It's kind of the meat you want. And then, yeah yeah i think we both were unsure based off like where we were in each other's lives and and then we kind of kept hanging out and then uh she finally got to a point where she's like i don't like yeah i want to date and i was kind of like i don't i don't know really again we're kind of like, you know, our caller. I don't feel like I've always struggled with in my adult life of like, what's going to be the reason I should move forward? Yeah. And so she kind of took the advice I've said to a lot of people on this podcast is she just was like okay this is

what I want it's fine no big deal but I'm gonna go do my thing and uh she did and I was like what very chill she's very she she's uh very confident and in the most chill way was it but was it like let's be together or let's cut this off well i mean we had hung out like we we hung out for a while right hung out is so like i don't know what does that mean we like here's the thing it was a it was it started in the most within the hanging out where we weren't dating we were very open and honest we had dated other people wow we knew that we told each other and we were just like it was just probably the most communicative relationship you know like that you know it wasn't boyfriend and girlfriend but we're just open yeah and i think that established a lot of trust that's cool and then but it got to a

point where she was like, this thing we're doing well, fine. I've, we've had, I've had my fun. I don't want to do it anymore. And I was like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just, I don't know if I can. And she was like, okay, no problem. And then she went and showed me exactly what I'd be missing. And then, you know, there you go. go wow but she didn't do it with words she didn't we didn't you know like you know didn't try to convince me didn't try to change my mind we didn't fight we didn't she just said cool i want to read whatever book she read because that is amazing that's so it was the most like yeah there was no like there was no convincing no

sales pitch no pitch just like here's the deal laying it out and walking away it's totally fine i don't know if she's been listening i don't she doesn't listen to my on my podcast how can you um but uh yeah that's so awesome uh yeah so that's it's fun she's uh she's rather great. She's awesome. Wow. Also, everyone loves her. Really? Without question, everyone likes her more than me. All of my friends. You sound like me.

I swear we are so similar. Without question. Without question. It makes me a little insecure about myself. But she makes you cooler. So it's okay. Yeah. No, that's my fian my fiance everyone likes him better

every my parents everyone is like my parents think he's their son like they wish that and it's so fun to like bring someone to the to the fam and to the friends like and everyone loves them yeah you want to elevate your life the first time i met her i was with friends in new york and it was very judgmental friends whose opinions i really like care about and she sold them and so wow but everyone loves her wow but i'm just like god everyone loves her more than me so that's it's fun if you guys break up maybe she'll keep all your friends and in the breakup don't she'll be missed that's for sure like the people who reluctantly choose me mostly like like you know people who are related to me or like lifelong friends or because or because

they have to work with me but they'll be sad i can't promise you that much yeah and then they'll like they'll there'll be some anger and resentment towards me because it will clearly have been my fault yeah yeah we'll avoid that for now at least that's exciting exciting life update it's fun look at esther with the exclusive i love it well i just interviewing i just want to know about my friend i truly like feel such a good connection with nick like i just think he's such a good i don't know you have good energy thank you same i mean we're besties you know what it is it's because you know we don't have what maybe our boyfriends and girlfriends have yeah and we see it but like deep down we're like we're pretty great too we're just sometimes harder to be around but we know we kind of suck

yeah it's like we also understand why people sometimes you know why we rub people the wrong way we're just like that's fine that's gonna happen that's how we are well we have some great callers today yeah and uh i gotta say you are as good as I thought you would be. Thank you. Yeah, we're a good team. I feel like we can really help the people out there. It's fun to talk to these women. There's a lot of interesting, smart women we talk to.

Yeah. Well, let's get to it. Okay. Question time with Nick. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions How's it going? How's it going, Nick? I'm Jessica, and I'm in my 40s.

Hi, Jessica. How can we help? I am in a mixed signal communication with a man that I've had an on-again, off again, romantic relationship with the last four years. And I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and I never to get just the raw honesty that I need to just close that door because this gentleman is so kind and so compassionate and treats me very well when um but but it seems to always just boil down to sex and so it's just at the end of the day I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to feel cheap and I know that I deserve better but why am I struggling with this so bad when I mean and

then he'll send messages that say like he's never met anyone like me there will never be someone like me in his life and he doesn't want to hurt me and I just feel it's his way of saying I'm just not that into you and I feel like I'm the one needing like the slap in the face. Like, yes, Jessica, he's just not that into you. Well, I mean, we can help you with that. Yeah. Thank you. Few things in life are better than great skin, whether it's on our own faces or on our partner's skin.

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you in a perfect world or your perfect world, you would make him your boyfriend if you could. I mean, at least like in the past, that's what you hoped for. Yeah, correct. Correct.

And I've tried to do what you say, a slow burn and just let things unfold organically. And then I give it time and time and time. And then every time I try and just faintly bring up the conversation of like, where's it going? Are we seeing other people? It just runs away from the whole discussion, says just not ready for a relationship. And he's been divorced for a very long time seven

plus years I don't believe that he's not ready I think it's he's not ready for me or doesn't want me and then during lockdown didn't want to see anyone really for a while and um i told him that we would catch up when things got a little bit normal and so once that happened and we got together and finally connected and did our thing again i noticed that physically um he had given me an sti not an std an STI. And the reason I know that is I had- What's the difference? Between an STI? Okay. A disease is like incurable, like something you'll just have to treat and live with. But the STI is like an infection that you can treat with antibiotics and it will go away.

Okay. Right. So like chlamydia. It was, that had never happened before. So I knew something had changed and something was different because you know your body better than anyone. And so it took a couple times. And then I said, hmm, something's not right. And I went and saw my doctor. She confirmed, oh, do you have a new sexual partner? Sometimes this happens when people have new sexual partners. And I said, well, not new to me, but perhaps indirectly. perhaps indirectly yeah yeah so I asked him about it and he said he was honest so I'm grateful for that and he said that during lockdown he got

rather lonely and connected with a girl for a one-night stand and that must have been it and that he would get treated get tested and he felt remorseful but it was horrifying um to find out that way and to know that he was just like that like I could have been weak and gotten on dating websites too but I didn't and I just feel like he owed me that disclosure yeah at a minimum when you. When you're sleeping with someone at a very minimum, I think you should know if they're also sleeping with someone else. I wasn't asking for a marriage contract or even a boyfriend title. Just tell me if you're sleeping with somebody else

so I can make an informed decision whether I want to do this or not. It almost sounds like this might just be a classic case of you maybe need to present an ultimatum and be like look but i don't even know if you want that i don't even know if that's what you want i don't know that i'd want it either but i'd want to feel that what i'm doing is more symbolic is deeper than just this like cheap stuff. Hook up. Yeah.

I remember doing like in my college days, like I don't, in my forties, I don't want to feel that way. No, it doesn't feel right. The good news is, is that you can control that,

right? I mean, you're human, you know, I don't know for you, you, you know, you say in your forties for me.

So maybe for, you know, like as we get older, we can feel insecure about, um, you know i don't know for you you you know you say in your 40s for me so maybe for you know like as we get older we can feel insecure about um you know do we still got it so to speak right and then if we're you know we can get insecure about that but you're so close right you even mentioned like you have this self-awareness of like i don't know maybe you're just not that into me it's hard for anyone to say that out loud and kind of face that to their ego. And you're capable of doing that. So you're really close to,

to that, but what you're just, you're just a little too afraid to let go. And you're too afraid to show him that, you know, your own self worth, because like you can, you can say it.

It's one thing. And we do that a lot in relationships. Like I know that I'm worth more. And so you're in this kind of like dating situation and maybe, you know, you two respect each other, but like, maybe it's both of you.

Maybe it's one of you like not ready to commit. And the other person is like, well, I deserve someone who's ready to commit to me. And the other person's like, of course you are. Cause you're amazing. And I've never met someone like you,

but you're still not willing to show them. Cause you still like, you try to convince them and then they, they don't give you the answer you want. And instead of like being like, okay, well, no problem. I'm just going to go find answer you want. And instead of like being like, OK, well, no problem.

Just going to go find it somewhere else. And then, you know, you're you're trying to convince him with your words and trying to show him with your actions. It's hard to do, right? Because you have to actually let go. Information is the key to living smarter, healthier lives. And Fit Track is helping us do that. We have our scales, and sometimes, obviously, we know, or not all the time, but we know that scales can weigh us, right?

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sex and then that was it but we were boyfriend and girlfriend but it was like so obvious that I just I it was like what you're saying it's like you just feel kind of icky about it and I like that you're intuitive and you just you know you feel it and it was so hard for me to break up with people like I could never do it and it wasn't until we had taken like a little break and he had hooked up with someone else and my ego couldn't handle going taking him back after that but I'm just kind of all that to say like it's hard to break these things off even if it does make you feel icky I get that like there's something to it that's keeping you around but it sounds like you don't even want the relationship with him anymore but either way it might be if it were me I'd probably be like look either we're boyfriend and girlfriend and you like me or this is just a hookup and if this is just a hookup like I think

I'm gonna walk away and if you change your mind let me know but like you know maybe something like that that's all great except I would I would disagree with that last part if you change your mind let me know because kind of makes him feel empowered. He's like, oh, oh, great. Well, I'll when I start sampling everything else, I'll let you know if I got it right or not. Good point. So I wouldn't say that. But you're just going to have to show him what he lost.

The hard part breaking up is like in that moment, you want to be with the person, right? You don't want to move on. Right. But the only way to sometimes to get what you want is to do the the person right you don't want to move on right but the only way to sometimes to get what you want is to do the very thing that you don't want and that is to like let go and move on so that's the up part about breaking up because you're trying to like what you want seems makes sense i want someone who you i know myself worth i want someone who wants to choose me respect me and you're trying to convince them with your words and hope that you

don't have to like leave and scare the out of them but that's kind of where you're at you're just gonna have to you know take that one final step of saying you're a total babe yeah you're you're killing it like you just have that little bit of confidence that i gotta let this go yeah and i'm gonna might be single for a period of time and there's gonna be someone else who's you know you know, you're going to be a little lonely and sad in the process and that's okay. I believe that you will find someone who where you spend time with them and you'll be like, oh, he really likes me. He likes me. I can tell. Like I know that that's going to happen for you.

And so it's like why not go for that and maybe you're going to be lonely and it's going to suck for a little bit. But you really are beautiful. Thank you. No shade to anyone's age, but I did not. I thought you – I'm 32. I thought you were my age for sure. And it's amazing that you're in your 40s, but I did not think that. And I like that you really know.

You're like, I don't like how I feel. I don't feel good. So I'm going to, yeah, that to me sounds at all. Here's the thing. The hard part about breaking up, you're going to feel lonely and sad. But you have him in your life to a certain degree, and you feel lonely and sad now. So feel lonely and sad with having the option to find something better as opposed to feeling lonely and sad being stuck in this kind of revolving circle that's not going anywhere. Now, one, one question I have, um,

for you, Nick, in particular is that, you know, a lot of times guys will say, Hey, the best thing you can do is cut people like us off, like cut us off. So I did that. I like cut us off so i did that i like cut him off but the worst part is that he doesn't know i cut him off because he hasn't checked in and it's been over a couple weeks and i want to be able guys say that they don't mean that guys say that because they don't care what you're doing when you cut them off you know what i'm saying he still feels very confident that whenever he texts you on your birthday or whenever he gets bored that you will eventually respond so that's why he feels comfortable enough saying that it's because he's not worried about losing anything but the moment you don't respond the moment you've like moved on and you really don't give a shit and you're

totally indifferent he will freak out now that's not to you know it's just gonna take a while hopefully you won't give a shit then and take him back because i just one time i ran away from home and no one noticed and that was hard five hours later i i was like 11 you know it was like it's an age where they should have i did not get the reaction yeah like i've been there where you're like uh guys and it's like yeah he just he hasn't he did it's the hard cold truth it's like he doesn't care he's just like fine you haven't responded he does he clearly doesn't give a shit and like it's good for you to be strong and be like all right he doesn't care like i said you already know deep down that he doesn't like you the way you deserve to be liked and i'm not saying this

to give you hope but the good news news is, is he's in a point in his life that he may not know the difference. I've felt like that in my life. As I've gotten older, I've had these relationships in my life and I've had serious, you know, relationship and, and I've become almost kind of too self-aware of my own choice. It's just like, well, how do I know if I like someone or if I'm not on TV? You know, like, it's like, if I'm not in a pressure cooked environment, I don't know. You seem nice. I don't know. Like he just might not know how to like engage in a relationship and commit, but that's not your problem, right? You've made it your problem to a certain degree and, and maybe someday he will change, but that won't be until he really believes

that he's lost you and you have yet to show him with your actions. And you never really left. He like gave you permission to leave. So you kind of did. But like you have to be like, no, that's cool. I'm good. Yeah, I'm it's fine. I really don't care. And he might never care.

And that's OK. And it might sting. And it's fine. You will you'll survive it and you'll be stronger for it. He might never, never be bothered. But also been there. And it's OK. You will you'll end up with it he might never never be bothered but also been there and it's okay you will you'll end up with the right person because of it well my only hope i appreciate this advice so much is that i'm given the opportunity someday i mean like the guy is cut off like i'm

not going to reply but i just wish i had the opportunity to show him that like i wish he would have checked in well that's just your ego and i know that feeling so damn well and the what's gonna happen i guarantee you is by the time you get that feeling where he checks in and you're not there and he gets the wake-up call you're not gonna care anymore you're gonna be like oh i don't care that's so what happens every time it's so annoying and that's a hard part our ego wants everyone to love us but you only need one person to love you so you know just go find that person well i appreciate you um both taking your time to listen to um someone the older problems don't change they just i don't

listen you're a total babe yeah so go out and uh make some guys really happy yeah you're beautiful thank you so much that means the world to me i appreciate your advice i take the sponging it all in thank you all right best of luck thank you bye-bye how's it going good how are you good how can help? So I actually just have a question about my current relationship. So my first relationship was seven years long, um, on and off there was, how old are you? I'm 22. So it was like all of high school, first two years of college, like crazy. Um, there was a time of cheating, it was just yeah so it was that kind of relationship um so that's kind of like the backstory now I'm in this new relationship it's been two years who

was cheating both everyone no like I was completely loyal like the whole time um it was him so I finally left that relationship was single for about two, and now I'm in my second serious relationship. So I guess my issue is that he is still in contact with his ex. I am okay with that. And from the start, I was like, okay, I trust you. I wouldn't be dating you if I didn't trust you. I'm okay with the friendship. But it was his birthday about a week and a half ago.

And he let me kind of look when she wished him a happy birthday. And she still had like the nickname in his phone from when they were dating and they broke up like a year ago. And she doesn't know about me and doesn't know that he has a girlfriend. How do you know that? Because he's told me. So I... Why? Yeah, why? Was there a why to follow up?

Yeah. So I know it sounds like a little bit suspicious, but so his whole thing is that when they broke up a year ago, she was suspicious of some cheating, I guess. Like it kind of ended on good terms. There was no like reason for the breakup. So she assumed that it was because of cheating. And this was when me and my current boyfriend were friends. So she kind of linked it up as like, I was that girl, I guess. It's kind

of confusing for me, but he says that he just doesn't want to offend her or have her think that he was cheating with me. How long did they date for, first of all? Like three or four years. Okay, all right. So he says they're still friends because there's absolutely no feelings there anymore. Like on his end, he wants to see like where her life goes because he invested so much time into this relationship.

And he says that I should just like... I mean, she's not like a real estate property like I don't right I know she's not like Amazon stock accumulating assets I'm just gonna buy it and let's forget about it see if it grows I don't know did he like buy yeah spend money on her like that's yeah sorry it is definitely weird and like that's just kind of what threw me off because like with my past I'm like okay I'm trying really hard to trust you but the part that really triggered me was that we've had a few fights since then about this and I've said like I'm totally okay with this situation like I just want her to know about me like can you just slide in a message like hey I have a girlfriend like

out of respect I just want you to know this but his rebuttal to that is that I should just trust him he will tell her when like the time is right like he doesn't want to throw it in her face and I don't know that just kind of like says red flag to me like I don't know how old is he he's 24 do you believe there's okay do you believe that he doesn't have feelings for her what do you think what do you really think I totally trust that he doesn't have feelings for her anymore the part that just bugs me is that so there's a little bit more to it like it was his birthday and then four days later it was her birthday so he openly was like I'm gonna wish her a happy birthday so I'm like okay that's fine whatever and then later in the night I was like, I'm going to wish her a happy birthday. So I'm like, okay, that's fine, whatever. And then later in the night, I was like, oh, like, did you guys have a conversation today? And he was like, yeah, like, she kind of brought up something about, like, the lasagna her mom used to make, like, when they were dating, because he, like, liked it so much. And she's, like, trying to bring up, like, nostalgia and stuff.

liked it so much and she's like trying to bring up like nostalgia and stuff and to me that's just like okay like I kind of feel like she still has feelings yeah but I don't blame her because she doesn't know about me totally like you you sound very like level-headed and like fair and not unhealthy it sounds to me I actually believe he probably is not interested in her but he's getting off on the attention yeah that she's giving him and he likes knowing that she still likes him and that's probably why he doesn't want to tell her about you because then he won't he knows that she'll get upset yeah so exactly yeah so it's like shady but it's not like worst case scenario shady like i believe he doesn's like shady but it's not like worst case scenario shady like I believe he doesn't like her but he's just likes the attention and yeah so I guess like my

question is is like how do I go about this now like am I should I just stop like bringing this up like every time we bring it up it's like a two-hour conversation like sometimes argument and I'm just like, okay, so am I now just okay with him like telling her on his own terms? Like, I mean, I don't feel like you are. So here's what, but here's, here's what's going on for you. I want to give you a lot of credit first because you were in a relationship where you were cheated on and obviously that sucks. And no matter who you are, there's some baggage that happens there and you go into your next relationship and you have to choose to trust. I've said this a lot and that's what you're choosing to do. Easier said than done. Sometimes it's even harder when

you end up in another relationship where there's these like red flags, as you say, that makes you question your own sanity and yet you're trying really hard to be like, no, I'm going to be a trusting person exactly so great job the only bad part about that is sometimes we have a habit of then kind of compromising our gut and the things that we know like our own sanity right in the sense that like you don't you you don't have to be okay with things that you're not okay with or the things that you know deep down are wrong just because you want to be a trusting person. If something seems fucked up to you, you have a right to say, trust or not trust, that seems fucked up to me. You know, like, why doesn't

she know about me? It doesn't matter what his reason is. As his girlfriend, if you're going to continue to have a relationship with someone that you didn't just like have sex and become friends with, he dated for three or four years. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is not like, I don't know. I, we got drunk one night. We had sex, realized there was no attraction the next day and turned out we were friends. You know, that's not what's happening. Like this is a, there's this whole nother backstory and he's still considering her feelings. That's another problem is like right now he's managing your feelings. He's managing her feelings. Well, that's fucked up. That's that, you know, he might not be a committed relationship with her, but he's in a relationship with her. And that's, you know, seems more than a friendship because if it's just a platonic friendship,

I want all my friends to know about my relationships. I don't worry about how they're going to handle my relationship. Yeah. The hard part too now is that he is not a social media guy. Like he has one post on Instagram, never post on Snapchat, like nothing. So I've never found it to be a red flag that like, I'm not on his social media, but I kind of gave him that out. I was like, okay, if you don't want to like directly tell her, why don't you just post something? Cause then it's like, you don't really have to tell her. And he's like, no, like, I just like, don't want to like directly tell her, why don't you just post something? Because then it's like, you don't really have to tell her. And he's like, no, like, I just like, don't feel like doing that. I feel like if I agree to what you're saying right now,

like this is going to extend into the future when like I have other like female coworkers or like female friends and you're going to like ask me to like shut them out, I guess. What? You're not asking. Yeah, that's ridiculous. ridiculous so yeah there's some big problems here with this guy you're you're constantly you're in a situation where he is not working with you at all he has these yeah you're the one who should have these non-negotiables

and yet it's him who has them saying nope not gonna do that nope that's fucked up no i i if we're in a health relationship i shouldn't have to do this. And you're just constantly, for the sake of trying to have trust in a relationship and have a healthy communication, you're constantly compromising. You know things deep down are okay for you to ask, right? This happens a lot in the sand of what regardless of you wanting to be in a trusting relationship and regardless of like you know what's happening your past there are things that you're just like i know that's okay i'm not crazy to want to be in a relationship with a guy where like people know we're dating let alone his ex i'm not crazy like the social media thing he's made

that an issue, not you. You know? Yeah, like you're not saying, I would even just overly articulate, like I'm not saying you can't talk to female coworkers in the future. That's absurd. That would be crazy. And that's why these fights are lasting two hours, right?

Because he says something crazy and then you'll say it like you just said, Esther. You're just like, I'm not saying you can't talk to you. And you're like- That is exactly it. Right? And then you start talking for, you're talking two hours. Cause you're like, you, you spend 20 minutes saying something you already know is a fact.

It's like, of course you're not the type of jealous person who like, wouldn't allow him to have a female coworker. Yeah. But yet he makes it seem like you are, I mean like this very subtle gaslighting that he's doing in a very kind of Machiavellian way. I brought this up the other night with like the gaslighting and just kind of like how he has a couple of other like friends that are girls who know about me and like I've hung out with them a few times and things like that but now the way he's treating this ex-girlfriend has kind of made me feel iffy about all of his

female relationships like I kind of just like don't like I feel like how he's dealing with this is making me view like his girlfriends that way. And I tried to like explain this to him. I said, like, if you keep acting like this, like in the future, it's definitely going to be me not trusting you around. Like you're moving me to that direction. And I agree with Esther that good chance he's not cheating. He's faithful. What he is is selfish.

And what he is is like he just he doesn't want to be in a relationship because in a relationship to some level is about sacrifice. It's about like saying, I want a lot of this and to have a lot of this and have it be great. I have to give up certain other things. He's no, no, no. He's just like, I want this most of the time. And then I want to fill in the gaps with all these other things. And I don't want anyone to tell me that I can't have exactly what I want.

That's his, that's what, that's his version of a relationship. I find that like his biggest argument is that he's just like, when you ask me to do something like that, I feel like I'm doing it because of another reason. That's not just me wanting to do it myself. Like he's like, I will do it when I feel like I want to do it. And I'm like, I'm like, I feel like in a relationship I I should be able to talk to you and just be like, this is making me uncomfortable. It's such an easy fix. Just send her a message.

But I do agree with you that, and I've brought this up to him, that he knows that she'll get offended and then they won't be able to have a relationship because it'll bring out that she still has feelings for him. Yeah, exactly. And like Lester said, he loves that she still likes him. yeah oh yeah that's he's getting off on that for sure like and like we all get that yeah there's always appeal when you have someone that you can text that you know they like you but it's just not

it's not right and also you you do have a lot of self-confidence which is really cool like the fact that you are cool that he's texting her you just want her to know about you like you come off very confident and like calm and collected and yeah I I would wonder what would happen if you said to him how would you feel if it was reverse like see I have done that and he just says oh like i honestly wouldn't really mind because if you did end up like leaving me for like your ex-boyfriend or someone else like i would know that like i'm the better guy and like i shouldn't have been with you like anyways what kind of thing i mean so this guy sucks but you can you can take a page out of his book and the fact that like he's a dick for saying

that but what he is right about is like what he's saying in a very dickish way is life will work itself out. I know my value. I'm going to believe in myself and I am not going to compromise on the things I want. Now he's selfish, right? You're don't seem like a selfish person as Esther mentioned,

but you just need to dang your ground with the things that you know are right. You need to trust your gut, right? And despite your desire to be in a healthy relationship and not let your past baggage dictate your future relationships, you still want to learn from past relationships. Right. Like, yeah, just, you know, you don't have to become the jaded person, but doesn't mean you're not more aware

about some of the shit people pull in relationships and go, you know what? I know that's fucked up because I learned it my last time. And like, I'm not going to argue with you two hours over like silly things. This is what I want. You have to be willing to walk away. He does not believe that you're going to ever leave. In my head, it's just such a shitty thing

to have to like walk away for. Yeah. It's almost such a small thing that it's like, why is this a thing? No, you're wrong there. It's a very big thing We spent the past 15 20 minutes talking about all this stuff You're thinking about how much time and energy fighting for two hours. How is that a small thing?

Yeah, that's taking up all your time. It's taking up your energy I mean This is a relationship a relationship where you're supposed to like have it's supposed to be a place where you feel safest Supposed to be a place where you can like Unwindwind not get rattled up you know what i'm saying like yeah but that's gonna happen i just feel like what i really need is i need him to understand where you're coming from that's like does he he come on man like how do you not understand that's what i really need but yeah and i you know yeah it's it's definitely this is a big issue but I understand also that you're like well it's not a deal breaker like it's we can maybe we can fix

this and maybe you can maybe he just needs to get her out of his system I don't you know the thing is is that like it's definitely not a trust issue with her like I explained this the other day to him because I'm not trying to read these conversations I'm not going on his phone like It's definitely not a trust issue with her. Like I explained this the other day to him because I'm not trying to read these conversations. I'm not going on his phone. Like I'm not any of that. I'm almost just like losing trust in that if my feelings and somebody else's feelings are at head,

then he's not going to pick mine. And that's kind of like where I'm losing trust. Like kind of just if I come to you with an issue, I can't trust that you're going to take it seriously or understand. That's why it's a big issue. It's not like you're right. That it's like, this does, this shouldn't be a big issue. Right. Cause as Esther pointed out, shit happens in relationships. You work through things, things come up, we get insecure. We talk through it. We work through it. We don't always see eye to eye. Sometimes situations take us a few days to work out or a week, maybe even couples

therapy. I don't know. But there's two people who are like what they are in agreement is trying to make this work. They recognize that the relationship's having a problem and they both say, all right, we need to figure this out because my priority is this relationship. It doesn't sound like a priority is this relationship, but this guy's priority. It sounds like this guy's priority is him and his needs. And as long as people are able to meet those needs, he's fine with that. I mean, I haven't heard anything from you that suggests that his biggest priority is the health of this relationship, right? I haven't heard anything that he's willing to give up for the sake of this relationship. And as a result, these small, what should be small problems are turning into these big problems where you're waking up every day being like, what the fuck?

Why am I crazy? You know? Yeah. And like before this, I never even thought like, oh, cause I knew they talked every once in a while. And I never thought in my head before this situation, like, oh, is she messaging him today? But now I wake up every morning and I'm like I wonder if they're talking today like it's kind of triggering something in my head yeah yeah that's not fair where I'm like yeah where I'm like going down the crazy hill almost and if you put up with this much longer you're gonna end up becoming the person you don't want to be and that is the untrusting jaded person because you're going to end up becoming the person you don't want to be. And that is the untrusting jaded person, because you're going to have been in this environment that you're going to turn.

These little things will become these big things and it's become what you're used to. Like you, again, you, it's really important. You trust your gut and the things that you know are normal or, or what's not normal.

So that, you know, when things come up, you have to be in a relationship with someone who's willing to sit down and talk and not constantly stubbornly like try to justify every action they have. I mean, exactly. What is this? What is this guy conceded for you? Like in this situation?

Nothing. And in any situation. Yeah. And I totally agree with you on that, that I do think that he's thinking more. So what he wants to do, and I'm completely the opposite end of the spectrum of like, I just crumble at every situation because I just like want to solve it and I can compromise super easily, but there's just no compromise on the other side. You're a great person. Don't change your caregiver. You're in some guys are going to be really lucky to have a person like you.

But the risk that people like you run into is, again, not trusting your gut because you're going to attract a lot of selfish people. You're young. Take your time. Find the person who like loves that you're this kind of thoughtful, compassionate person who will sit down and work through problems. But they have to be the same type of person. And so take your time looking for it

because selfish people are going to love people like you. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. You just have to be able to hold them accountable. You have to check them and you have to be, it's okay to walk away from guys who you're seemingly attracted to who are not totally assholes to the server,

but he's probably a fine guy, but these little things are, and a real from a relationship standpoint he sucks maybe maybe as a friend he's cool maybe he's a great friend you know he's great at being a friend but maybe his boyfriend he's not quite there yet and not willing to sacrifice his needs and he's 24. so a lot of 24 year olds are in a very selfish point in their life and that's okay but they shouldn't necessarily be in committed relationships. And I just want to give you the compliment that you are very self-confident and secure and at your age, that's really like a skill.

And I think that's really cool. Like you really, cause you, you're like, I don't need to go through the texts. You're like, I don't care that he texts or I just wanted them to know that I exist. Like that's really confident. You know, I feel like when I was that age, I would be like, let me see your phone. Like, and I, when he was in the shower, I'd go through his phone and I'd be like filled with adrenaline and stuff. So I think it's really cool how secure you are and like, we want to keep that alive in you. Thank you. Yeah. It's, it's, it's tough to not look through the phone.

I know. And everyone's human. And then one day you're going to do it and you'll hate yourself for it. Yeah. Because I think right now you need to protect yourself more than you need to protect the relationship. Because you can only do 100% of your half. And right now you're trying to do about 85. Yeah. And that's the thing. I think that I'm protecting the relationship and he doesn't care to.

He's protecting his own self-interest. Yeah. He's protecting his friendship while trying to like kind of protect a relationship in his head also while protecting future female co-workers he hasn't worked with yet you know like yeah this guy values freedom yeah that's right and attention from women yeah so i'm sorry all right it's okay but you're gonna find there's a lot of great guys that are really gonna appreciate you you just might have to take some time, age up a little bit, and you're going to be okay. Thank you guys so much.

And honestly, I just like I needed like almost a little bit of validation that like I wasn't going completely crazy. So not at all. Yeah. Stay on your ground. Don't. And the final thoughts. Don't get into our fights yeah just don't don't indulge crazy if he says something that sounds crazy just stop be like i'm not gonna i'm not

even gonna acknowledge that if this is gonna i'm not doing this again and just don't it'll i agree it'll drive them nuts it'll throw them that's such good advice yeah just refuse to have insane conversations. You're a smart person. Trust your gut. You're right on all these things. So just know that. And at the point where it says this, why I can't believe I'm having a conversation about future coworkers.

Yeah. Like we need to have this conversation in front of a couple of therapists because I don't know where we're going with this. That's too crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks guys. You're welcome.

I really appreciate it. Get off the phone and break up thanks all right take care all right bye how's it going good thanks how are you good what's your name my name is Vanessa and I'm 33 how can we help Vanessa so I am re-entering the dating world after about a 10 year relationship throughout all my 20s. Thanks. I have been seeing someone for a couple months now and the relationship started off very incredibly casual. So it was just a meant to be a Tinder hookup one night. And then we've just kind of continued seeing each other sin. My habits pre my long relationship with my ex-husband was always to jump into monogamous relationships pretty quickly. And so with this relationship, we're starting to kind of like

enter a new phase of the relationship where it seems like we're doing more things together. Like we're like cooking dinners for each other and we text like almost every day and it's not tons of texting. I have two small kids at home, so we just kind of casually text, but definitely check in. And so I'm just kind of wondering like how to proceed next and if I even should try to move things forward or if I'm just kind of doing it out of habit. So I was just hoping to kind of talk through with you and figure out. If we like him? Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of like, even like, do I even like him? Or am I just following these same steps that I always follow?

What do you like about him? So he's about 10 years older than me. So he's already been divorced, which I appreciate. Cause he has an appreciation for that. That I've gone through that as well. He's, you know, which I appreciate because he has an appreciation for that, that I've gone through that as well. He's, you know, he has like a good job. He seems very like steady. He's funny.

He thinks I'm funny. He's cute. He has goals. He has ambitions. You know, he has. How does he make you feel? He makes me feel like really good about myself, which has really nice what don't you like about him well he's not really my physical type and so I don't think I was like super super physically attracted to him at first it wasn't like but like I also know that I tend to be more

attracted to people the more I get to know them so I feel a lot more attracted to him now. The only, it's not anything that I don't like, but the only thing that just concerns me is that he doesn't have kids. And so I feel like for me, my big hesitation with moving forward in any relationship at this point is, I feel like if I'm asking them to be in a monogamous relationship with me,

then that also like brings all my baggage. And I feel like that can be intimidating or scary for someone who doesn't have kids does he know you have kids yeah yeah he knows we have kids we've shared our divorce stories and everything like that so you know he is a 43 year old man he can probably speak for himself in terms of what yeah he's okay with or not okay with right has he given you any indication how he feels about the fact that you have kids? No, no.

The last time, one of the last times we were hanging out, I asked him if he wanted kids in his first marriage. And he said like, yeah, that was always the plan. And then their marriage ended. So they never got there. And he said, and at this point, I'm kind of old. I'm kind of too old to have my own kids because I don't want to be like 60 year old dad at the football game. He's only 43. Yeah. I was going to say, and I said that too. I said, you're not

really that old, but then I didn't want to then say, well, would you be open to being a stepdad? Cause I'm not asking, you know, that would be the natural question. But then I feel like that's like a super loaded question. Cause I'm not saying necessarily, do you want to be my kid stepdad? That's not what I was asking. I was just kind of asking, like, are you open to kids in your life? But I'm not trying to make it. But regardless, it sounds like he doesn't have a huge desire to be a father himself. So that's a potential good news for you.

I don't know where you are at in terms of whether you want to have more kids, but that could be, I'm done. So you're done, right? So a challenge for someone like yourself and the, and then the position and the point of the life that you're in, I'm sorry, I'm not getting that out is that you're, you have your kids and you are done having kids. So in a dating situation, that is a potential problem for you that you could meet someone who still wants to have kids. But this guy, right, he doesn't want to. So that's actually a good thing. And it's totally fine. Like, you know, sometimes that happens all the time.

I want kids. I don't want kids. And that plays a role in people's compatibility. So it sounds like that's a good thing because your kids do have a father, right? And I guess a stepdad and hopefully he's just like a nice guy and treats your kids with respect. But you're not looking for someone to necessarily take that role. Right. And that's something I'm pretty clear about when I tell people when it comes up with the idea of kids.

And I'm like, but my kids have a dad, so I'm not looking for a dad. I'm just looking for a person for me. He still doesn't have to go to football games. Ken, if he wants to, doesn't have to show up. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's awesome. I feel like I love what I'm hearing. I feel like you, you have fun with this guy. You guys make each other laugh. You like how he makes you feel. You guys, it sounds like you're just kind of in the early stages.

You like each other and i think your instincts of what do i do now like it makes sense because you don't really know and i i almost agree with you it's like i don't know like you just kind of nothing's bad so why it seems like you just kind of keep going and maybe as time moves on you know maybe you're like are we boyfriend girlfriend like what is it you know maybe like that might come up eventually but i'm curious you had mentioned this habitual instinct to define the relationship and make things official what are you referring to like when you were 20 yeah like i'm referring to my when yeah earlier before my marriage but then even like this is the first guy you've dated since your divorce no no it's not okay I'm sorry um no no no but the

other two so there was two other guys that was like it was kind of about the same time and one of them was just like the relationship ended itself it was pretty it was pretty bad but then the the second one it was kind of the same thing where it's kind of like we started hanging out and then at some point he just kind of said at dinner one night, like, Oh, something about like, um, yeah, girlfriends don't usually like that when I said something I didn't like. And I was just like, Oh, I'm sorry. Is there, are we, are we in a relationship? Like, I wasn't aware that we had had this conversation and he's like, well, do you want to? And I was like, okay. And so like, he was the one who kind of brought it up. So

you dated someone. Yes. And you were had this dinner date and he was like, he said something to make you mad, but then referred to you as a girlfriend. And you were like, sure. So we were talking about, we were talking about a situation. He was going to do me a favor at my friend's wedding. He was going to play music. And I was like, yeah, but I don't really, you know, like, I think you should just play at the beginning and then they'll have a DJ. So that way you're not playing all night and he said like something like like yeah girlfriends don't usually like when you're just like over in the corner plate or something like that like and it was just a it was just like yeah but then it wasn't like something in the moment

that made me mad but then you like that was the consummation of you guys dating that's how you defined it yeah and then how did it end uh he ended up getting wasted at that wedding and i kicked him out okay and that was the end of that why why why did you say yes to that relationship like why didn't you you know i'm just curious um there's no wrong because like i because i mean i wanted to like we had been seeing each other for a couple months and like it was good enough i guess but yeah i mean in retrospect it was you know there were more issues okay because i was gonna say just because somebody got wasted is a kind of a funny reason to break up with them but it must

have been well it wasn't the it wasn't the first time gotcha gotcha okay you know you're just kind of feeling out feeling it out right i mean a couple things that you know it's good enough you know just yeah maybe check yourself you you know, it's good enough, you know, just maybe check yourself. You're not necessarily looking for good enough these days. You're, you're looking for great. Awesome. Right. Yeah. So you have the, you know, you're 33, you're a mom, go out and date, get a little sex, you know, do whatever you want. Like you can casually date for a while. Yeah. I guess. So then, yeah. so then at like what point do I have that conversation or do I like leave it to him to have the conversation what do you want because like obviously I'm well

I don't know I just feel like I come with more baggage stop listen no it's all relative yeah like it's it's fine and healthy to recognize things you're insecure about yes he might find that really charming about you you might be the perfect woman who already has kids and he'll never have to worry about that because he doesn't i don't know this guy or this situation what you need to do is stop like telling him what he is supposed to have a problem with as it refers to you let him figure that out and if if he tomorrow or tonight was like, so what are we? Are we boyfriend and girlfriend? And he was like, let's do that. Would you love that?

Would you be so psyched? Or would you be like, I don't know? I think that my response and where my head's at right now is just based on the missteps that I feel like I made with the other guys that I dated for a little bit. I would be like, I'm open to this conversation. Can we just talk about what this is? Because like the label is not really what I care about. I'm just kind of at a point where I'm like, like, even right now, I'm fine with everything we have, but like, are, are we monogamous right now? Cause I don't, I don't get the sense from

everything we've talked to about just our lifestyles and things like that. I don't get the sense that I, I mean, I know I'm not, and I don't think he is going out and seeking other people, but like, I care less about the label. And I would just be like, I would want to have more of a conversation of like, if we are going to talk about this relationship, I just want to be clear about like, what does it look like? You want to define expectations. And I think that's great. Like, like I don't want to necessarily, like, I'm not ready. I wouldn't be ready for a long time to, like, introduce a guy to my kids. Because my kids, I feel like, have already been through, like, enough. So, like, that's not on the table anytime soon, regardless.

Even if we were to become boyfriend and girlfriend tomorrow, I wouldn't bring him around. But it'd be like, we would maybe, like, I don't even know how it would change other than, like, it being clear that we're monogamous, which is something I would want. Like there's there's not a whole lot else that we're not already kind of doing that boyfriends and girlfriends typically from my experience, from my past experience, typically do. So I I feel like there is nothing wrong with. act like you have and it is you every in your every right to be like to just say that to him be like hey like i doubt we need to have this conversation but just like it's covid and like i don't know like are we monogamous like i definitely am or you two like if you're not i just want to know like maybe just have like that in a charming way but like i'm not trying to like label anything but i just feel like that should be

something that should be easy to talk about and should i also throw in there like because i like you yeah i like the thought of you only sleeping with me i say yeah what nick what do you think well yeah i mean it's uh you should want to be able to tell people that you like that you like them yeah and i know that's scary because as soon as you do that, you're being vulnerable and opening up the possibility. They don't feel the same way. It's scary. Yeah. But it also for the right person will confirm something that's worth your time. And what you don't probably have as a single mother is a lot of free time and

time to waste and people who aren't worth your time. So you just kind of have to get through that, that hurdle of being a little bit of scary and put it out there that, you know, you like them also. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. There's not much to talk about. It's really, do you want to fuck other people or not?

It's really that simple when you're defining a relationship. We'd make it this whole thing is like, and you're right. You don't have to introduce them to your kids. Right. You don't have to make it a big thing. You don't have to like, you know, go to who, what Thanksgiving you're going to. You don't have to, you don't have to do him to your kids right you don't have to make it a big thing you don't have to like you know go to who what thanksgiving you're going to you don't have to you don't have to do any of that to not want him to have sex with other people yeah and you're in such a good no pressure situation because you're not saying like are we monogamous and if so i want you to meet my kids

tomorrow like you're literally putting no pressure on him other than a very normal like are we fucking other people like that is so not a big deal you know like you're in such a good spot yeah because you can not have sex with other people now in three weeks later you can be like change my mind gonna have sex with other people and then it ends and at least you have a clear understanding at least so yeah yeah it's i think that's yeah as as we get older i think that's all that's all we really want to know who you fucking yeah you know and just just like honestly just me just let me know just let me know it's totally fine i mean there's knowing where we stand is all we really want in relationships we just hate feeling confused and crazy yeah yeah the only thing i would slightly disagree with esther i mean try to be charming but don't try to discount the expectations you're trying to set by being like, it's not a big deal.

Like, I don't really want to, I don't want to define, like, you want to define some expectations. And that's okay to say. If he has some follow-up questions to like the things that you're trying to, the expectations you're trying to set, then you can reiterate, I'm not looking to introduce you to my kids. I don't need you to go to football games. We don't have to talk about holidays. Just want to know who you're fucking. That's it. Yeah.

And then, I mean, and then just follow up with like what, you know, when you look at what we're doing right now, like is there anything that you would want to like change or alter or like, you know, and kind of open up that conversation too, with just checking in on like where he and kind of open up that conversation too with just checking in on like where he's at with sure the amount that we text and the amount that we hang out and things like that you know it's one of those it's a subtle line between like well are you okay are you okay are you okay but like just in any relationship you want to make sure that the

person you're with feels comfortable being honest with you because you never want to get yourself in a relationship where the other person's like i'm just afraid to tell them the truth because they might freak out. You seem like a chill person. So like, just, Hey, the more, the more chill you are about it, the more comfortable they will feel comfortable saying, well, since we're talking about expectations, I got one for you, you know, and then you guys will work it out. But yeah, the more open you make it seem you know just but yeah don't apologize for wanting to set expectations yeah and those expectations can change you're not signing a contract you're certainly not getting engaged

or married you're not having a kid together you just want to know who they're fucking and that's i think that's like part of going into like looking at how it all started which like the expectation literally the first night was like are we good with like no small talk and just like get to it and like yeah and then over time that's changed so just so starting off I it's you know it happens but like just so starting off from that but it's like then we've yeah it's just the relationship has just changed over time so yeah just figuring out how to check in without being like making him seem like making it seem like oh i'm 33 and kids i should i shouldn't be like fucking around and i shouldn't be like casually dating or or or i need to like define things sooner than later like whatever makes you happy do it take some time for yourself if you do like a guy

which you do you like them then see where it goes start setting some expectations and then it might change and then you know or it'll take the next step maybe at some point he's like hey just so you know whenever you're ready i'd love to meet your kids you know and then maybe you're just like great good to know i'm not ready yet but like i like that you i like thank you for being open to it right and just keep it very you know everything is okay as long as we respect each other and then you gotta figure it out what sacrifices you're willing to make to make the relationship work or take the next steps but I feel yeah a lot of my friends that are in your position have a habit of putting too much pressure on themselves for

the decisions they have to make you know maybe because they have kids or they're worried what their kids are gonna think or what is their mom or their you know, maybe because they have kids or they're worried what their kids are going to think or what is their mom or their, you know, friends think or like, or what society thinks because, you know, you've been divorced. And that's the thing is I think I'm less, that's why like I was okay with things starting off so casually, but now it's just kind of gotten to this point where it's like, we're investing a lot of time into each other. So like, again, I feel like, you know, we're both volunteering our time to each other. So again i feel like you know we're both volunteering our time to each other so it's not like one person is like pushing more than the other but it's now we're just at this weird point that yeah just trying to figure out what what the hell is happening i i think you just

want to want to know who he's having sex with and i think that's a totally are we monogamous just curious okay got it yeah that's the vibe i'm getting Are we monogamous? Just curious. Okay. Got it. Yeah. That's the vibe I'm getting. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as you have sex with someone, you have the right to know where else they're putting their dick or their, you know. Do you? Is that like, is that a rule? If they want to come again. Come again. Yeah. That doesn't make you crazy okay you know we're so society makes all of us women just think we're so crazy because we just want like the bare minimum like you're in a good spot you're not being crazy about you're just like totally yeah you're like i just don't want an std i just have a question for you and i just want to know do you like wearing a condom i don't so like let's just

be honest with each other kind of thing you know otherwise you know then obviously safe sex we promote safe sex yeah you know sure if you're in a monogamous relationship and there's birth control you can maybe take some risks you know right right i just like i'm so uncomfortable when you say the word dick in front of a teacher i'm like don't say that she's a teacher you're not friends with very many teachers then if you think that we haven't heard at all and that we don't you haven't been on the bachelor there's a teacher. You're not friends with very many teachers, then, if you think that we haven't heard at all and that we don't. You haven't been on The Bachelor. There's a lot of teachers that go on. Yeah.

Yeah, you need to, once COVID is lifted, find a group of teachers and go to happy hour with them, and you'll find out what those conversations all are. Yeah, I think Esther's totally right. I think society sometimes makes women out to sound crazy when they have very normal questions about the dirty dicks they're considering putting inside

them sure sure and no one likes a dirty dick everyone has preferences I'm sure there's some people out there yeah but like listen it's like it's like anything else if you're gonna read the ingredients and be like do I want to put this like toxic food in my body because it tastes good yeah but be informed you know perfect yeah

very true that's why they list the ingredients yeah yeah would you eat something that was like we're not going to tell you what's in it i don't know like listen i don't answer that i don't read i don't know i don't read all the labels but if if you were buying something they're like we're not telling you yeah now i'm like oh well how does it look how good does it or or would you eat something that they put on the package like this may or may not have been tasted by someone else already in the last 24 hours yeah yeah and it might not go away. It just shows up every six months. Oh my God. Perfect. Then would you? I don't know.

So. I shouldn't. It's fair to ask. It's fair to ask. Well, I appreciate your help. I appreciate your time. Yeah. Best of luck.

It sounds like a fun, potentially blossoming relationship that may or may not work. And that's exciting. Yeah. So no pressure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, best of best of luck all right how's it going hi um i'm ellen i'm 25 and i need help

all right how can we help ellen okay so i don't know how to um like sum this up the best way possible because like basically the biggest thing that's happening right now is i've been dating this guy for six years okay we've been living together for five we've been in a relationship long term like and i understand that relationships are very much like if you're taught you're in a relationship with someone the only person you can go to for the answer is them right so basically i don't necessarily need help figuring out what's going on with him i need help figuring out what i'm okay with now that this is like coming to fruition so basically political stances like i like to be completely honest like four years ago i voted voted for Trump. I was incredibly conservative.

Like I, you know, me and my boyfriend were on the same page. We totally got along. Like it made sense, whatever, right? Here I am four years later as a 25-year-old adult. I am not under my parents' wing. I have my own opinion. I voted for Biden, you know, and I'm very much into the empathy of the world, you know? So like when we go out to the store now i'm wearing a mask and my boyfriend is not so it's like one of those things where like people are like break up with your racist

boyfriend like sure but like is he is he racist is he this is he that like when i bring this stuff up to him what seems to be the problem is like i talked to my ex-boyfriend let's just leave that where it is i talked to my boyfriend i was like what do you think oh whatever you know because your ex-boyfriend is the best person to get advice for your current boyfriend because he's totally gonna be unbiased um so but i was like what do you think and then he was like well like you have different religions like i'm only six i'm a catholic like whatever i believe in the universe and all the things and god and whatever but he is not right he was raised he was raised catholic but both of his grandparents died of like cancer when he was young so he's like if god loves me he wouldn't take them away totally get understandable

whatever but if we have different religions fine right and then my ex-boyfriend was like well if you have different politics aren't you sort of treating this like different religions? Like, aren't you sort of treating politics like it's religion? And I was like, I mean, like, okay, I'm fine with him having a different religion than me, but he's still a good person. At the end of the day, he's not actively evil. He's not actively rude. He's not actively, you know, going against my faith. So then with politics, though, like, this is a big thing where

like, I think Black Lives Matter. And like, this is something that I'm going to be very vocal about, I'm going to continue to be vocal about, I'm going to continue to be really fucking annoying on Facebook, super fucking annoying. So like, if your dad and your mom and you and your best friend and fucking everyone disagree with me, I don't feel safe. Can I interrupt? Please. You sound really self-aware and really articulate in a way that's very impressive to me. And it almost makes me want to ask you, like, I feel like you know whatever the questions you're asking us.

I feel like you actually know the answers because you are so self-aware and articulate. And I want to say, I do want to like say to you, gosh, if I was against Trump and my partner was for Trump, that would be really, I don't- A fucking deal breaker. Yeah, like it's just almost like a difference a difference in belief systems that would be make our lives really hard and unless things were so amazing and every other element of the relationship like why especially at such

a young age and especially if you've been together six years you guys met so young like you met this guy when you were 19 like ew like when we're 19 19 to 27 we're we're running around like child idiots but again like i'm not taking into account like how much fun you guys have and what connection you have but it just sounds like i don't i mean yeah whatever like that's the thing like i guess yeah yeah i agree with what esther is saying i think the biggest thing here too is like how important it is to you and you kind of said that right you're passionate about this this is something that you don't want to back down from i don't like and i've mentioned this before i i don't i do not like despite the world we live in these kind of blanket statements of like if you voted for someone then you're canceled like

that's not okay right now granted i understand we live in a divisive yeah we live in a divisive time but just despite that you are passionate about these beliefs and kind of to esther's points you guys have dated for so long you've been you're kind of evolving as people in this relationship and it sounds like maybe you guys are just growing apart that's okay you guys are turning into different people uh i just don't it doesn't sound like and you even said that you're you know the answer like you know where you're going and you know where he's not he's not following along that's okay and that's the thing about relationships is they play a role in our lives they're not all meant to last. It's not necessarily anything against him or the relationship or what you had. You know,

you don't have to, it doesn't have to say anything bad about you two. You know, it could be still a relationship that you will look back on fondly. You know, you have this ex-boyfriend you talked to from like six or seven years ago. Maybe this guy will turn in that, you know, a few years down the road. But if you have some conviction about something that like every day that, you know, his parents or him are just going to, you know, fuel your fire, you're going to have constant angst and anxiety around it. And I just don't see how you guys can grow a relationship. You're just going to have more friction. And I would almost argue that you being surrounded by him and his family being so for the things that you, you know, you guys being so different politically, that probably is making you even more like vocal and energized. to have a normal life and like not be addicted to posting on Facebook or whatever and just like find you need to you need to have boundaries for yourself of like okay how am I gonna help

my beliefs and my causes in a way that is also I'm still gonna be like healthy and a normal person and I'm not like obsessed with posting on Facebook which again there's like nothing wrong with that but I think like I do think they're swinging you too far in a direction maybe. Because you're in this relationship and the very person that you see yourself to be closest with feels like he's against you. That almost radicalizes you in a way, you know, because you're dealing with it every day. Other people could have an opinion about a topic and be like be like oh that seems fucked up or wrong or i disagree and then they go home and like they're just talking about like you know what's for dinner you know but you go home and you know you're just like why didn't you wear a fucking mask around a crowd you

inauguration you just made me cry right i don't know a lot of people didn't watch the inauguration but because it's passionate to you like that matters so like do your thing but you are you you've you brought this kind of toxicity into your own house also you're like you're young you're pretty you like to smile and laugh it's like girl guys are gonna like guys are gonna come for you and what if you like do volunteer work for for biden whatever and then you meet someone awesome who has the same beliefs as you i just feel like why would why would this girl sitting before me hold herself back for someone who just doesn't but this isn't like the only issue i mean like you like this is one part of

the issue like when you wrote in there was other mean, like you, like this is one part of the issue. Like when you wrote in, there was other issues where like, you know, he, you wanted to have kids and get married and there was like some other things that came up and you started looking at some other people and started noticing that you weren't attracted to him as more. So it's, it seems like there's more of a bigger issue than just this one thing. Like everything, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Like everything's kind of blowing up like in my face

like I think I I have okay how do I start I my ex-boyfriend that I was with for five years like on and off I cheated on right and so Jacob knows about this my current boyfriend and so he is just a little bit triggered um when anything happens that has to do with other men right and so he's not allowed to be triggered because I haven't cheated on him in our relationship but there have been moments and like things that i've done where like i sent someone a picture on snapchat or like i talked to someone on the phone i broke up with jacob moved my shit out made out with one guy got back with jacob you know kind of thing so it's basically like this weird thing that happened where basically like this weird thing that happened where suddenly we got to a point where we finally said wow like look at us like we're finally handling problems really well and whatever

like I pulled up my car and that's normally a huge point of contention for us and this time this time we handled it really well and we communicated really well and we talked really really well because we knew exactly what the other person was going to get triggered by so what's weird is now that we're sort of getting through these triggers it seems to be that the last trigger that we have is this problem where does jacob trust me enough to be in a relationship with me because like my thing is like i mean like like you said like i'm pretty voice will be all over me like i've heard that my whole life that's i don't need to hear that like what i need is a man who likes me even though i'm pretty even though i smile well does let me ask you does he trust you no then you have you cannot do this without trust it's too hard i i see my friends try and do this without trust. Yeah, right? It's too hard. I see my friends try and do this.

It's fucking dumb. And you don't even, the thing is, I didn't even learn that until I was in a relationship where we trust each other. And now I'm like, oh. You're like, whoa, stay safe. Oh, like everything else was not real. If someone doesn't trust you, that's going to be, you're setting yourself up for misery because then what you're like always looking over your shoulder he's like always questioning you and

you don't really have the freedom to just like live your life and like let's say you want to go out with your friends one night well is he going to be like where is she what's she really doing is he going to show up like you just don't want to i have a guy friend that has problems like that in his relationship but you that if he doesn't trust you that's hell for you it's hell for both of you but it sucks for you too just like yeah I mean like I've been in a relationship where like I'm with the guy and I've cheated and I'm trying to like earn back the trust and get the the thing back to where it's supposed to be and like hit the new level and whatever but like I think I finally got to a point where he was like he said all these

things I'm I'm trying not to attack you but i'm trying to say like i'm feeling a little neglected i'm feeling like you're bored i'm feeling like you're throwing attention at other people and blah blah whatever and i think my brain went i have done nothing to trigger you this time i have openly communicated i have made damn sure that i i gave you the power in the relationship like i told some other guy something i told jac Jacob the same thing. I was like, do you know this is happening? Do you have full support, communication, whatever? And literally what I got out of the text was basically that he doesn't trust me.

So yeah, he looked at me and he was like, is it 100% me or not? And then I said, do you 100% trust me or not? Because I'm not committing to someone who I'm going to have to continue to fucking work for. Like, if I'm yours and you want me, like, then want me, right? Like, I don't want to be in a relationship where, like, if I'm going out in the world and people find me attractive, it's my fucking fault. It's not my fault. I can't do it anymore like i'm done i'm done going across the world and being attracted like being attractive and being like just my confident wonderful self and

then having people say that it's sexual yeah that's not that's so okay you're i'm glad you're getting this all out what what i mean what what what are those things that like, because here's the thing, like in every relationship, people are going to feel levels of insecurity. I don't care who you are. And even if you have a relationship where there's a lot of trust, once in a while, someone's going to be like, feeling insecure today. I got a, I got a question. I hope I'm not overreacting. And those, you need to be able to have those conversations without feeling triggered. Yeah. Maybe you're just past that.

I don't know. But I'm curious, what has he said in the past that has brought you to this point where you feel so triggered by his lack of trust? It has to do with, like, my relationships with, like, other men. Like, the thing is, is, like, the most recent one that happened, there's's a guy all over the entrance we were in a musical theater show together and what show literally uh jacqueline hyde thanks it's so good um so we were in a musical together and you know before the pandemic because now that's not a thing and um i was hanging out with him a lot but he's 21 i'm 25 so therefore to me he's a child just like i'm a child so you you know so so i literally like can i ask you a question

when was the last time you were when was the last time you were single you're not gonna like this answer but it was like i was 14 like i just went from boyfriend to boyfriend to boyfriend this is the first time i'm feeling like a normal human myself. And I'm like, yo, I'm going off with that. I think that's what's really going on. I think you're finally getting to the point in your life, regardless of your age, where you're being more comfortable with yourself. You're looking in the mirror. You're recognizing what you're seeing. And you kind of like it.

And that's great. But right now, but you also feel a bit trapped, right? You're in a relationship where you don't feel like you're necessarily going to be yourself. And that's great. But right now, but you also feel a bit trapped, right? You're in a relationship where you don't feel like you're necessarily going to be yourself. And that happens. And that's maybe nothing against him. You've never even been single, you know. So if you're going to find yourself for the first time, you need to kind of, you need to see what's out there without feeling like you're doing something wrong. there without feeling like you're doing something wrong there could be some like guilt you're projecting because maybe this like lack of independence that you've had you're you want

to talk to other guys or you want to have guy friends because like there's nothing wrong with having guy friends but there is a limit to like if you're in a committed relationship like wow you kind of hang out a lot of dudes you know like like i'm super uh i trust you but fuck man like and if you are like you know you you could be a trusting boyfriend and like and and you could be the boyfriend it's just like i mean i think my girlfriend's super hot so like i just as a boyfriend you're just gonna be like well everyone wants to have sex with my girlfriend right so like there's a level of like congratulations you know i've always said like you don't have to trust the people that are around you have to trust your partner but you're just like hey you know everyone wants to fuck you, right?

Okay, let's not pretend. So I just think maybe right now you need to embrace your independence, embrace this kind of new found self. And I think maybe it would behoove you to be single for a while. Yeah. Because I think you're kind of projecting. I don't know. We're hearing your version of your boyfriend. of project, like, I don't know, like, you know,

we're hearing your version of your boyfriend and maybe he sucks. I don't know. But also maybe he's a nice guy with some flaws. Maybe he's just like another human that's just imperfect. But right now I think you're a little triggered and a little, you're projecting your frustrations because I think you're finding yourself while also feeling trapped in a committed relationship. Yeah. Would be my guess. By the way, what if you guys are like, you take a break?

No. That's my fear. It's not going to fucking work. You break up and then if this was meant to be, it'll come back kind of vibe. I love that advice, but i hate that advice also because like if it wasn't gonna work in the first place like it's not gonna work again like i think esther's maybe trying to give you like a little bit like hey you know we all i think we're all in agreement we know what needs to happen but

yeah you need the courage to break up maybe you can i think you know deep down what you need to do yeah and uh yeah that's okay and uh yeah listen like you've never been single yeah that's you don't want that so that's not great you know how do you you how do you know what you want as an individual like in um you'll be single for a while see see see how you even progress even more as an individual and then embrace the things that like you know you're kind of free to go down the paths you want to go down and then once you kind of go down those paths you'll end up in a place where you're like oh these are the people that i feel like are going to help me be, you know, the person I really want to be. Yeah. Okay. Godspeed. We believe in you. I believe in you. Thank you. All right. Well, take care.

Bye. You're going to be great. Yeah. Have a great rest of your day. You too. All right. Take care. Well, what a fun episode. So much fun. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. love being here this is a fun fun way to you know help others yeah hopefully and we learn a little bit about ourselves it's therapeutic i have no doubt that the people will want you back so if uh if you're open to it we would love to have you back down the road and i love your team i it's a happy energy here i love

it uh remind the people where they can consume all the delightful things you're putting out in the world yes uh i have a solo podcast called esther club and i'm working on a new podcast with a couple female comedians when you say solo you mean you don't have guests and that's why you haven't asked me to come on that's correct yes but i when i after covid i'm going to start having guests again maybe and you will definitely be all right i just i mean just asking and this year i because you know stand-up comedy requires so many droplets to be exchanged so i started a clothing line called sleepover by esther you can go to sleepoverbyester.com

to learn more about your tie tie yeah that's great thank you this is it it's very cute um we're launching sweatsuits soon but i feel like that's it i'm just chilling you know i'm on a show on hulu called doll face we're waiting to shoot season two otherwise i'm just at home waiting for nick to call and invite me to the bonfire yeah now that you know now that i know you're open to it yeah can't wait thanks for listening guys don't forget to send in your questions at ask nick at cast media.com cast with a k uh subscribe five stars all that fun stuff we will see you tomorrow for more bachelor recap and on wednesday for what is sure to be a riveting conversation. Thanks, man.

Bye, guys.