The Viall Files - E234 The Bachelor Recap With Jordan Weiss

Episode Date: February 9, 2021

On todays Bachelor Recap we are joined by  Bachelor Super Fan, Jordan Weiss, the creator of Dollface on Hulu.  As Nick and Jordan start to break down this episode they begin with the strained “two on one” between MJ & Jessenia before moving on to their biggest issue, why Abigail has yet to receive a one on one date. They talk Katie and the role she has played on the show and her vibe during the Tyler C prank date, Heather’s arrival and how they think that will play out, and finally if they think there could be any kind of “naughty energy” that will come over any of the women.   “It was like a pre- battle ritual.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:   Proper: http://www.getproper.com use promo ode VIALL for 10% off your first order  Article: http://www.article.com/VIALL to get $50 dollars off your first purchase of $100 or more.  Bev: http://www.drinkbev.com/VIALL use promo code VIALL to receive 20% off your first purchase. PLUS FREE SHIPPING on all orders. Helix Sleep: http://www.helixsleep.com/VIALL for up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders AND two free pillows Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @jweissy See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files i am your host nick joined by the whole team we got chrissy amanda alley chrissy in studio mic'd up from montana how you doing i'm doing oh my god it's so cold here it's been snowing for three days it's like minus eight and it's gonna be minus 20 this week well that's what you get uh for moving uh anywho uh we got a great episode for you. Lots to talk about with this episode of The Bachelor. Jordan Weiss is with us, creator of Dollface. Dollface streaming now on Hulu.

You might know it from our friend Esther Provinsky, who is with us yesterday on The Ask Nick, is one of the stars of that show. And Jordan is the creator of that show and also a huge bachelor fan and has some wonderful takes on the show and it was a ton of fun to break down this episode with her so uh i hope you are looking forward to that we got a great episode tomorrow with dr laura berman uh who is an expert in all things dating relationship sex we talk about a bunch of stuff

how to make valentine's day great for yourself regardless of your relationship status sex toys uh one i mean the the biggest takeaway is uh uh talking about how butterflies are red flags yeah that was really cool actually all right i learned something she didn't drop that knowledge with Oprah. She did not drop it with Oprah. She saved it for our show. Check that out. We got some great new merch out there for you. We got 20% off

a little Valentine's Day special. Code Alone. Such a good code. A-L-O-N-E Alone. For all those people. For all of you. Who are alone.

Vilefiles.com, check out our merch. You will love it. Anything else we aren't covering, haven't covered? No, I think we got it all good. Wow, look at us. I know. You did a good job today. Well, let's get to why the fuck have we not seen more Abigail right after this?

Jordan, thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. I'm embarrassingly excited to be here. I'm excited that you're excited. We've talked back and forth on Instagram a little bit about your passion for the show. And I thought it would be great to have you on as someone who is very talented and and and what she's doing in hollywood and uh it's nice to get you uh in front of the camera i'm gonna just keep my hands down because i actively don't know what to do with them i'm glad most people will just be hearing this and not seeing it well i don't know how you hurt to burst your

bubble but some people will watch it a lot of people watch it no i mean more people more people listen to it how long you been a fan i have been watching for i think it's almost 10 years my first season was emily maynard season really okay yes discovered it the summer after my freshman year of college i was living in a fraternity house of all places not a place i'd recommend living it was a thing at usc like over the summers a lot they they become co-ed over the summer like they're sort of just cheap summer housing for like people interning and the the boys of fai sai at usc really turned me on to the bachelor and i've been a diehard the boys turned you on to it yes which was hilarious like the boys were obsessively watching it,

and then all the girls that were living in the house over that summer started watching it. That doesn't sound as crazy as you might think. I could picture college boys thinking for a lot of reasons why this is entertaining. One, girls are trying to hook up with our fans of the show. They can relate. And also, it's kind of like, I mean, it's probably not the best dating notes, but college boys don't know that yeah like i feel like just trying to date in that greek life scene is sort of like the bachelor

it's just like the odds are not in the women's favor yeah touche um that's that's quite fascinating um now i'm happy i will i've been watching uh for probably the last like five or so years with two other female comedy writer friends and that we're very loyal to each other. We always watch. A lot of people watch it differently. Some people kind of hate watch it. Some people are just true believers in the process.

And the average person is kind of in between. They objectively watch it and be like, that's kind of shitty or I love this part. Where do you kind of land? For me, I'm invested in like the anthropological, like just study of human behavior aspect. I'm also just so always blown away and impressed by like the producing and editing of like,

I think I watch it getting invested of just knowing like what must have happened behind the scenes yeah it feels like a social experiment that i'm invested in but i do i would say at the end once it's like whittled down to the final like two or three i like always hope that they end up happy and i get invested in the love story like at the very end we'll uh we'll actually get into that a little bit when we we start talking about heather in terms of uh i think it's an up with all the conversations you've seen recently on twitter and the press of some of my peers uh talking about the production of things i love that she watches shows like that because that's how i watch shows like i was watching super bowl and i'm watching the weekend's performance

and i'm like that person's after number is this like how much money like I calculate it production wise like I watch it for production oh yeah yeah so this episode opens with the really cheap and weak two-on-one I we were really so bad we were really um it was taken from us the the classic 201 this season it kind of threw it in there you need like a genuine conflict and it was just like a person absolutely said exact words that another person quoted there was not two sides to that story yeah we weren't led to believe that they didn't like each other like out of nowhere it was there's been a lot of that this season we saw that later with uh katie and um serena serena serena c it was just like the rise of the mean girl energy again.

I was like, you're just reminding everyone that you were part of this original group and are not going to let the drama die. So yeah, they hate each other in that moment. You know, it was one of those things where MJ goes home. I don't know. She was dressed like a 1980s workplace villain, which I appreciate. I dug the outfit. I thought to myself when watching it, it's a shame she's where like i didn't it's like i didn't i wanted to i

didn't want to root for mj in that moment but i was like rooting for her outfit i thought it was kind of i i felt like she was like gonna come in and like like dethrone like the hero of working girl like it was very like yeah it was weird because she was just you're absolutely right there was really nothing to debate the most fascinating part of that for me was i was like does mj literally believe what she's saying that she like she seems to be holding so steadfast to this idea that she's like a peaceful chill girl that she was wholeheartedly arguing that like she's being painted in a bad light. And I'm like, do you are you delusional? Do you not remember what you said? Yeah. It's weird because, you know, when that one moment, you know, where they kind of showed her breaking

characters the wrong phrase because this is who she is. But when she was like, oh, my hair got fixed like a bad bitch moment or whatever she calls it. She said the words weak bitch energy more times than i was comfortable yeah and it was it was hold on let me fluff my hair a minute and at first i'm watching it and i was like ah this is a bad beat for her because everyone in those in those moments will say to like a producer like how's my hair look or you know they'll they'll they're sitting down to interview and so if you in any wrong moment play that clip it just makes that person sound like they care more about their hair than finding love it's it's an unfortunate that's not what that clip no no it wasn't that's what i'm

saying at first when she said that i thought that's what it was like oh that sucks but then it was like no this is this is kind of an important thing that they showed it was like a pre-battle ritual it was like i have to make my hair bigger before that they showed. It was like a pre-battle ritual. It was like, I have to make my hair bigger before I go just like be really mean to this girl. It was like a mantra of like before she, it's like every morning she wakes up, she's like, you know, no weak bitch energy. And it was like, so I, that's what I'm saying. When they first aired it, I was like, ah, they didn't need to show this. And then like seconds later, I'm like, no, this is an important note.

Thank you for sharing this because this is, this is MJ, which that's fine if you are, because you're right. She keeps saying that she's peaceful and harmonious. And no, she stands by like strong, aggressive. And I get that like, you know, hey, I want to be an empowered woman. It's almost like she's like confusing empowered woman with being nice. It would have been, you know, like you can't be nice if you are. You get take what you want kind of thing. I don't know. I thought Anna fell on the sword very gracefully when she got finally called out in the end. And it would have just been so easy for MJ to be like, you know what?

It was sort of immature. I said the JV varsity comment. I really feel embarrassed about it. The other girls are out of the the house it feels like we're making a shift to like a more positive place i really am sorry for being immature last week and like totally fresh start like it would have been so easy for her to say that and so the fact that she didn't i don't think it's because she's like a liar or stubborn i genuinely think that she could pass a lie detector test of like i'm a good person and I didn't cause drama in the house. Like she must truly believe that if she was fighting

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She just didn't own up to it. Like I'm the queen of like, I say the wrong thing all the time. I am constantly my foot in my mouth, but you just have to be like, oh yeah, I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry. Oops. Yeah. No, I totally agree.

Yesenia. She was like, I can't tell. I couldn't tell if like, is she annoying or is it she's so right in this moment that like she can't help but look righteous. Yeah. Like she like I hate to be so right in this moment, but like her like cute little smiles and she's very beautiful and she just stood there very calm. She reminds me of AOC. Like very sort of like I just know that I'm so much righter than everyone else and I'm just going to smile at these like old politicians who are on the wrong side of history. And it was kind of like, yeah, we like i'm that's exactly how it was where it's

just like i couldn't help but like she had a couple looks where i'm like all right try to be more humble because you are totally right here but you're coming across almost a little little bit but yeah she did she did fine yeah she was she's cute i thought she was very well spoken she honestly reminds me of someone like i'd vote for her for class president but she seems she just looks has such a baby face i'm like have to remind myself that she's not like the star of a disney channel show no she has that she very much could be yeah yeah i don't know how she ended up in the bachelor she should have auditioned for you know i don't see matt ending up with like class prez with a z like coming to disney this fall i don't see Matt ending up with like class prez with a Z, like coming to Disney this fall. I have a hard time more, probably more than any season trying to figure out what and who Matt is into.

Like, what is he like? What is I don't know. We were texting a little bit last night. This season is really lacking any hot romance, like any pizzazz. There's no there's a lot of drama there's a lot of cattiness there's some nice connections the sexual energy there's just low yeah so low which is confusing because he's so hot and i just like want him to want to bang everyone more yeah he spent half half his dates half his half his conversations matt was for the i mean

for those watching you can see this but he's he was leaning like this the whole time he's leaning away yeah like unreturned thigh grabs is what we were saying yeah like the ladies are all trying to like get a hand in there and he's there's always a hand on the thigh always it doesn't matter heather sits down hand on the thigh it was immediate the hottest thing he's done the whole season was making out with piper when he snuck into her yes that was fun but like at this point in the season it's like people are getting like pushed up against stone walls and like on pool tables and like and sneaking into each other's rooms and and i totally get for matt like listen it's i've said this as the bachelor bachelorette it is really hard because at this point you're emotionally and physically exhausted

and for all the contestants that you're not you're just not into right and they everyone knows like who's into who at this point and so then you're like having these conversations and going on these dates where like everyone knows like this isn't going to happen. Yeah. And then the contestants still kind of like insist on pretending it's going to happen. And it just it's hard and exhausting. So for a lot of it, I get it. But I wish sometimes the contestants would like give themselves the dignity of I know it's like not built to do that.

But I would have freaked out if Katie at the end of their dinner was like, you know what? I feel like you're in the friend zone. me i would have been like yeah i dropped that's amazing like you know it just say it you don't like me be the one to say like you know what we have a friend vibe and like i'm gonna see myself out yeah i i want to see that i totally get it but like you know rachel last week you know it seems like rachel is matt's front runner but even that was like there was no necessarily hot chemistry. It was, I love you. Yeah.

I love you. And then like end of date. It was sweet. Like I, and by the way, I'm not trying to like shame anyone for not like leading with their sexuality. If he's like a more conservative guy, I get it.

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too maybe it's not a size problem for you ladies out there maybe your mattress doesn't have the support that your guy needs to really get up in there you know the position that you like with the position that you like so i'm just saying i don't know i could be who knows this might actually be something to actually be something i don't It might actually be something. I don't know. I mean, listen, if you haven't tried it out, all I got to say is I feel like my mattress supports me in a lot of ways. Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L.

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He was. Peter embraced being The Bachelor more than I've ever seen. Yeah. Like you could just tell. He'd still be living in that world if he could, I think. Yeah. No, like I've never watched a season and and see the lead like be like this is like awesome like everything about this is great that's how i saw and i'm sure like

you know peter struggled like everyone else did but it that's how it looked where peter was like yeah more i don't know we'll see like i just gotta follow my heart i feel like there are certain seasons like your season ben season where it's like you could I felt like you were legitimately into people and it's like I just can't I don't know even Rachel if she's the front runner when when Matt says he's falling in love with her I was like you are like okay like I didn't take your word for it oh yeah I trust you man yeah I I totally agree so I I don't know but so Yesenia gets uh the rose which is I thought it was just weird that we didn't see Matt give her the rose.

No, she just walked in with it. Because oftentimes, like, it will be this beat where it's just like, hey, MJ, I'm sorry. I can't give you the rose. Can I walk you out? And then there's this like, well, she thinks she's going to get the rose, but is she going to really get the rose? Because usually if that happens, you wonder if they're both going to get sent home. Exactly.

I thought that first. I also didn't know who he was going to pick i got really nervous for a second yeah i honestly was like i think mj might get it just because their conversation was more intimate and so i'm like if this is in his mind like she said she said and he's more like into mj i mean it really doesn't matter i i he's not that all these girls All these girls, most of these girls, I'm sure, watch this show. And I will, to that point of like, why do we never see the Katie's of the world

just say, hey, listen, buddy. Yeah. Let's just call it what it is. How come no one who's ever been on this show who ends up in a two-on-one ever is this like,

I'm not winning this thing. You know, and yet, you know, when Jacinda is like talking to Matt, she's like, well, you know and yet you know when justinia is like talking to matt she's like well you know if we end up together and i'm like we all know you're not gonna end up with her i think that people have different degrees of self-awareness and i have to imagine that in the casting process of this sometimes they're like not necessarily looking

for like the most self-aware i don't know like not across the board but it's always a mix right like uh a bachelor cast is like an office workplace you got smart people you got dumb people you got self-aware you got cool nice dickish like everything in between that's true I think to your point the people who might end up on those dates on those dates are not the most self-aware maybe not always but you just never know I mean it's uh and there's a sense of pride there's a pridefulness totally like and there's so much i can't even begin to wrap my head around like the level of sleep deprivation and like you can't look at your phone you can't talk to any of your friends like you're living in such a weird

like psychological place i have to imagine i thought about this last time this episode i mean all the women look great but you go back and watch night one again and and watch this one you can tell they just look a little more tired oh yeah a little more just like i mean you know fuck it my hair's fine like this like who gives a shit i don't know if it's like one of those like rumors but like i've definitely heard up in like the bachelor world that it's like sometimes you're sleeping like three hours a night uh the the lead oh the lead is is is it's just a time thing no it's production it's definitely not yeah it's not a uh let's just keep them up yeah no it's not torture um uh the cast gets a lot more sleep than um okay well that's good like also because the schedules

are weird but like there's a lot of sitting around yeah no i can so like during the day they could nap there's a lot of napping that goes on like lying all down yeah corinne champion of the bachelor but matt has no time it's like because like he's he's having conversations with all these people then he's you know all these like um you know itms that everyone's doing he has to do that so often about everyone every interaction every conversation he's got to you know discuss and and what do you think and so it's just hard there's just a lack of time so matt is physically and emotionally spent at this point yeah at first it's a physical struggle like you're just you have all these and then and then the second half tends to be more emotional because you start feeling guilty

you start making connections you start yeah you know you feel like leading people on if they like you and you don't like them and it just it gets hard no must be such a weird space like time doesn't pass like i just can't imagine being separated from like my phone and like the ability to like watch the news or tv for like that period of time it must your brain just like can't process how many days have passed i mean that part is kind of nice for someone who spends too much time on his phone but um yeah no well what it ends up being is you just you get you have a narrow focus yeah like that's what it is you just design no just give you so much time to be like there's nothing to distract you yeah just like i it's why everyone gives a shit about

nothing yeah here's like i have to care about something i'm going to care about this exactly um so yeah so we then we have uh the rose ceremony i mean shout out to britney she literally came on the show just to be falsely accused of being an escort and then got sent home and she was like pretty classy about the whole thing she never like you know screamed and cried like she was like very hurt like rightfully so but like was i felt like she i hope she gets a fun like paradise storyline i hope she i think she'd be good for paradise she's you know uh it's pretty girl she seems to have spunk she was willing to show up and grab matt's face i could see a lot of guys being attracted yeah i think paradise if she would have been there on this night one she would have been more of a front runner because she's very strikingly pretty and i would like to see

her get a an opportunity in paradise because yeah that's that's a bad beat to show up only to like your entire airtime is defending yourself for something that you have nothing to do with yes and it was certainly like not pre-planned but like they knew that anna knew that rumor i think or maybe like that those two girls knew each other well i don't i don't know because you know listening it back and just kind of piecemeal things like clearly anna knew that she was going to show up she was going to be there exactly right um but it i you it wouldn't be hard to believe that Anna never said that to producers Because you don't know what you should know or not know

Right You don't want to get in trouble for knowing who's coming Yeah, would it be bad if I knew if Britney's coming But then she shows up and all of a sudden she's like, hold on We've seen that in past seasons Where there was the two girls that did a pageant together And one of them pretended not to know the other one Yeah, was uh was that hannah brown yeah no no it wasn't well that's no well hannah brown and and uh kaylin were kind of the original pageant rivalry but it was

on peter season season oh victoria it was there was a victoria and a leah and it was like so like i didn't know we were allowed to say that we knew each other. Oh my God, we're so filled with useless knowledge. I know, it's like I literally earlier We just pulled that out mixed up the states

Wyoming and Montana. Yeah. But that's a perfect example of Not the bachelorette. That's a perfect example of what Anna's thought process was was, you know, like on Peter's season

you had two it looked so bizarre because you're one as a viewer you're watching it why are they why would they lie about this but they maybe think oh i'm gonna get in trouble because i had to sign something i'm not supposed to be like i'm not supposed to be friends with anyone here i shouldn't know anyone and like you're you're so worried about that that you don't so i could picture anna not saying anything and then and then she britney comes on and then all of a sudden she's like, I heard this thing about it. Yeah.

And it goes from there. And then who else goes home? Who had a nervous breakdown for getting this? Oh, Ryan. Ryan had the nervous breakdown. Oh, my God. They were like screaming. They did like a primal scream before the rose ceremony.

I felt like that was more like the let's just get our stress out kind of exercise but yeah ryan had the uh i was like where is this coming from just crying and hyperventilating when she was like hugging matt she almost looked like someone had to be like okay you have to let go now you don't know him you're gonna leave ma'am you've been here for two days what's that maggie yeah maggie yeah she was cool she was cool beautiful time to go she seemed you know like a quirkiness and awkwardness there that you know she's definitely gonna be perfect for someone yeah i wonder if she'll like end up with someone else like super high quality and awesome in bachelor nation that's just like floating around

single or something or just super high quality and awesome that is not yeah i feel like more likely nick all the bachelor people have to end up together we're invested yeah so i've so i've been told over the years like i'm only allowed to it's like every ship i want to ship uh ship her with uh joe from last from tasia the doctor oh yeah doctor that would be cute oh yeah doctor and pharmacist yeah once again i just i feel like maggie is deserving of being able to pick from the world rather than yeah but he's such a nice guy thank you every season i get dms you would be perfect for so i was like every time girls get out people are like trying to set you up every season is it like dms from random people or is it like chris harrison no like i got the girl for you definitely not it's definitely not chris or

their producers but it's always like fans it's like if they it's something always as simple as if they were a fan of me and they're a fan of someone else then right you guys do this for me yeah yeah like i want to i want to be able to root uh for you guys um so what again once again what week are we in like it's week six it's episode six so we're they usually do like episode six is usually like into week seven okay okay yeah well chris comes in with his kind of like update on hey hometown's around the corner this is getting serious crazy i think it's the lack of travel is making serious crazy i think it's the lack of travel is making it still feel like it's the beginning of the season and so my brain isn't

like anywhere near well it's also that matt's still like meeting new people yeah you know it's yeah it's this has been a weird season a unique season that way because it's been great tv it's been great drama but you know whether it's Matt just not being, you know, a super passionate guy, but at the same time, in fairness to Matt, like, he hasn't really – it's been harder. I mean, I don't know if it's Matt or just, like, the way they're doing it.

There's so many women. There's more women than usual at this time of the season. And the focus has been in all this drama. And it's just like, yeah, that's what. And then Heather Martin pulls up in her like Avis white minivan. She rented at the airport in Pennsylvania. She's like the tiniest person in the white minivan, but Matt rolls around in the tiniest porch.

Yeah, I mean, listen. I feel like her and Chrisris harrison were performing a play yes with the little like camera thing in the corner that they put like the vhs camera yeah you know i don't i don't know what i'm supposed to say about this like listen the heather got a bad beat this is yeah clearly if anyone wants to believe that heather owns a white minivan and then like tracked across the country and found this resort and self-quarantined and showed up at the gate and the doorman or the the gate person was miked up and had a camera in the booth and chris absolutely give him an emmy he was like heather what are you doing here i'll get chris on the horn yeah and i have walked to the end of this

giant yeah chris doesn't walk i mean come on i mean whatever and so like yeah heather and then heather tried to i kind of tried to blame it on hannah brown she was like hannah told me that me and matt were perfect for each other and that i should come but that's I'm assuming yeah I'm like don't blame this on Hannah she did not advise this I can't imagine no here's what I I haven't spoken with Heather I haven't spoken with any of the producers about this but I'm pretty confident that it went something like this Hannah and Heather are friends Matt andannah are friends and as soon as matt was announced a bachelor heather is like i want i want to i want to i want to meet matt and so she called somebody i went up through she says can i i i think i'd be perfect for matt hannah says it'd be perfect for matt and they were probably like yeah maybe i don't know we'll see we're going through the

casting process yeah and somewhere along the lines, they were like, we could use a little. A spice. Something like, just fucking call Heather. In episode seven. See what she's up to. It's just,

it's the wrong way to come in late to a season. Like, just only you, like not using you as an example because I'm on your podcast, but because it's an example of the show. No, please.

I feel like you coming into Caitlin's season late was like the only acceptable way to do that, where it was just like so clear podcast but because it's an example of the show no please i feel like you coming into caitlin season late was like the only acceptable way to do that where it was just like so clear from the second you show up that she was like stoked to see you obvious chemistry obviously you guys like had something going yeah i was like there was something there that the audience was like i don't know there's something there's more of this story it was like immediately buy-in of like he would not be here if they had not been like talking like this is like this has begun to play out already this is so different than that he was like just

uncomfortably laughing when she walked in I was like this isn't you guys don't have like some star-crossed energy no and I was actually surprised watching it when she was like I've never met him now I guess technically she could be lying about it to like again once again but it seems like she really didn't yeah she lives in california and hangs out with hannah here and then hannah hangs out with tyler and him in florida exactly and so kind of that's the thing it's like we don't know heather's story or why she she decided she wanted to do this but you kind of talk about self-awareness they gave her the crazy girl edit yeah but like they used the shots of her just like bounce in the pizza box and like running around her which i don't like tossing her hair out the

window and i was just like oh buddy i don't really have a problem with that it's such an interesting argument because you know again like recently there's been a handful like of my peers out you know yeah and he went off on twitter yeah that was saturday night interesting seemed like he was drunk yeah um i don't know i was very curious about that also because he's like in a happy relationship with someone he met on the show well from a dylan like i i don't know dylan that way i've met him he seems like a nice guy he also from what i've learned we have mutual friends he's a he's a shit talker and he likes he's kind of a disruptor and ironically this was like off the heels of the whole uh robin hood stock trading thing of which he was actively tweeting.

Yeah, maybe he just had like nonstop energy that he had like big tweet disruptor energy, you know, like, you know, hold the line tweets. And I always I thought it was funny because like, you know, I was, you know, Dylan's audience is probably some of my audience. And while I'm sure there might be a couple day traders out there in Bachelor Nation, I feel like a lot of people following Dylan didn't give a shit about dismantling industries first wall street then the bachelor like all of a sudden dylan's like tweeting about you know the the produce and it's it's always irritating for me

reading those tweets because it's one of those things like i i know that there are people again who love to hate watch this show and they they almost watch it because they love the juicy like they're the people who love that uh that show uh on unreal right and it's just like the producers must be evil and they must it's all manipulates all fake they want to hear that they they can't they can't get enough of those kind of conspiracy theories about the show and then here i am someone who's like been on both sides of it and i i try to give my audience an honest objective like critique of what it's really like and if you know certainly you know oh you just you were just in the producer's pocket and anytime i'm just like that's not that doesn't happen no you probably wouldn't have like continued to go back if it was that horrible no No, I mean, listen, they're making a TV show, right?

I've talked about this. The show, every season, 30 people show up. There's 30 people. You can't make everyone happy. Yeah. It's just not going to happen. They're making a TV show. And when people get bad beats, they get bad soundtracks.

I'll never forget on Andy's season, I wrote her a poem. And I'm not saying I'm Robert Frost, right but did they like set it to like the goofy music they made it seem like a kindergartner wrote it they cut it in like they they aired like like three lines of it and it's like as if i only wrote three lines and i was like and then like on paradise when they make it look like they're talking or talking to raccoons and like you got the yeah you look a little crazy you got the crab edit like you're yeah you're crying at a seagull it sucks and when you're on the receiving end of it it does fucking suck and it's it's you're pissed you're mad you feel misrepresented and the show will do that and some things can be out of context right timings off you know you just you never really know but this whole idea

of manipulation and like and and then when a cast member gets upset about not getting what they want where it's just like they want to blame all their choices on on the producers it's like it's the we have to watch the show and know that only really like two or three people get to look great so like there's i actually disagree really okay maybe not i well most people i think and i've said this before most people who go on look better than they are then they look worse than they are because they only have two or three villains that's true that's true i guess i'm just my friends and i've talked about this like i'm confident that i would be a villain if i were on the bachelor i'm like so certain that i would have like the worst edit of all time all it takes is some like unfiltered honesty yeah um i have villain energy not because i'm really a bad person but just like i would give

them all the sound bites and then be deeply regretful of that i mean katie's a perfect example katie has and i said this last week, like Katie's teetering on. They could have edited her differently to be like a monster. I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, she's just like an out. We saw her temper. Yeah.

Right. And you could tell some of the women are just started to have their fill. Yeah. Katie wasn't the villain this season because you had people like Victoria and Anna. Yeah. Like, that's it. Right. If they had none of these other people and then you had katie

constantly like explaining what's going on to everyone everyone get fucking annoyed with her it wouldn't be just serena and they would just be like fuck you and they would all turn and what we would see is the house hates katie that's what we would see the show would show that the house hates katie and we would you know a lot of us would not like Katie as of it. Like that's like Noah on on Tasha's season. Right. Which is like, I don't know what to make of him. I had like no feelings.

It was just kind of a cocky, young, kind of chirpy, you know, a little bit of a disruptor and irritated enough guys of the house. So we were made to think maybe maybe noah sucks but like it most of the time in that world it's like if you have a like if you like here's anna as a perfect example like in life if you have a buddy and you go out and your buddy and you have a girlfriend and your buddy's single and he's just like hey man let's go out to the clubs and then he's like be my wingman you're like but i have a girlfriend right and he's just like oh but like you don't really like her and it's fine and like just be a be my like bros before hoes man like yeah that guy is gonna yeah and then you end up getting drunk and making out with another girl or even cheating on your girlfriend and obviously you come back

you're just like well jack manipulated me you know he made me do it that is kind of what like you know that argument probably will not hold well with whoever the girlfriend and that's what happens in bachelor world this is like do i think like anna do i think any of the producers stopped anna from being like yeah i don't i wouldn't yeah no it's not it's not their job to be like hey like don't say all this really mean stuff that's gonna make incredible tv TV. Yeah. They're not, they're probably not going to stop you from, you know, if you want to buy a boat, they're going to let you buy a boat.

It's a, it's a tough way to learn lessons like in a very public way. Yeah. Like it just, it just chaps my ass. And then you have people like Mike Johnson chiming in and, and all like Mike Johnson, like Warner brothers gave you a podcast.

You have a State Farm commercial. It is not because you just like you're not an actor. You're not like you are a fan favorite and you were on the show and you're chiming in like the show can make improvements. Like I've had like they could do better with mental health. And I know they've done stuff. And I've even like a lot of the the alumni's like will have honest conversations with be like hey you guys better job i'm gonna say her last name around keridi olivia yeah i feel like she's like become a total like advocate like i'm

always really interested to hear what she has to say about like the mental health part of coming off the show because i feel like she had a really hard time she i mean more than most she had a really bad beat yeah she had a tough edit yeah she had a tough edit and like she chose not to come back on which i totally get yeah i would i'd be confident if if i wish she would have gone on paradise yeah because i feel like it would uh they would uh your reputation can change with more appearances and time. And I think if she would have gone back on, it would have gone better for her, but she chose not to.

And I get it. It's just, I, it's so frustrating that when I have like people who go on, when things don't work out for them, the first thing they do is just like blame all their problems on the show. Like real life too. Like I have friends that like blame their problems on things and they don't's people in real life, too. I have friends that blame their problems on things

and they don't have producers following them around. I do that. But Heather got a bad beat and it sucks. It's going to be interesting. Also, it was tough that she was wearing a wedding dress. I was like the choice of the very sparkly white gown. Well, she brought that. No, I'm not saying anyone forced her to wear that.

I'm just saying positively bridal in a tough tough direction i don't really know her very well but she's seems like a goofball that's fine also this is just a girl observation but they always want like the close like insert shots of everyone getting ready for things and a lot of times it's girls putting on makeup when they already have makeup on and i'm just like that is a catastrophic amount of lip gloss and i know that they just want to film keep applying you just keep on and i'm just like that is a catastrophic amount of lip gloss and i know that they just want to film you just keep applying you just keep applying and i'm like the end result of this is a disaster like you need to put on less hot pink lip gloss i realize they need the shot i'm so concerned about the amount of lip gloss you have that's a good point but yeah that's just uh this is a b-roll shot that they don't think to like just just do this right exactly but i'm like

are you you're gonna go down like that and it's popping yeah i mean i don't think to like just just do this right exactly but i'm like are you you're gonna go down like that and it's popping yeah i mean i don't i'm sure heather's pretty pissed off but here's the thing where i like heather wanted to be on the tv show i'm sure she wanted to meet matt but she also wanted to be on the show i get that thought of like i've definitely met in the past like a friend's you know boyfriend's friend where i'm like oh my god that guy is so cute i feel like we'd be we'd hit it off and they're like oh he has a girlfriend and i'm like oh well it's like you're not like no i'm still gonna shoot my shot with this person it's like you maybe had a crush on matt from afar but he was already the bachelor you weren't on the season like

them's the breaks like yeah find a different guy to date well here's the thing like i'm i'm there's a strong chance that heather had had there for weeks. That's true. We don't really know. Yeah. Maybe. But what we do know is when she showed up, Chris Harrison did say, we're we're kind of at the end of this thing. Yeah. And in that moment, she could have been like, oh, well, then maybe I should go.

This probably won't go well. Like she didn't. She she was kind of pot committed at that point and decided to see it through. She's the main character of her own story. And she's like, and this is the part of my movie where I cross the country and I win over the guy. And I'm like, I love that confidence.

That's probably the most articulate way I could have said that where cast people get themselves in trouble is everyone who goes on the show sees themselves as the star of their kind of own story and and heather had this narrative and decided she's going to show up and at no point was she like okay where what what am i willing to do and what am i willing not to do yes and i think maybe that's what I meant when I was like, only a few people get to look good. You're totally right.

A lot of people look good. But at the end of the day, in retrospect, when you're looking back, it's only really like two or three people's like love story. Look good and are memorable. Yeah. And so I'm like, you have to know that like the overwhelming, like statistical chance of you going on the show is like, you're playing a side character in this larger show that's not going to be like you're not probably going to be like the lead

totally love interest of what's that's fascinating because there's always the nowadays it's such a hustle it's such a rat race with like social media followers and then you see i just watched fake famous last night that like influencer show it's um a documentary's on, I don't know why I'm promoting it. I had nothing to do with it. It's a documentary on HBO Max that's about influencer culture where they do a social experiment. They pluck three random people and try to make them influencers. And it totally works. Oh, yeah.

And they buy them followers with bots and they buy them comments. And then people think it's real and companies send them fake stuff and they get sponsorships. They turn them into influencers with interesting it'll be interesting because the preview of of heather it seems like what might be good for heather is well in the moment it's gonna suck because she once again seems like the mean girl's gonna come out like it sounds like it looks like they're gonna bully her ladies have we learned nothing from the lesson we just learned like i heard of viruses in the house they were, what is that bitch doing here? And I was like, wow, this is just such a comedy edit of like, oh, yeah, we totally shouldn't have been mean to those new girls.

Cut to like them being extremely mean to someone. Like Piper. I mean, I get it. Like you were talking to Matt. You had a one on one. And she come. Piper is like. Can we talk about that one on one?

Yeah. You had a one-on-one and she comes, Piper is like. Can we talk about that one-on-one? Yeah. I just, so there's always like the lesser known like musical guests that come in. I just was so, the lead singer of whatever that band was called, Temecula Canyon Band or whatever it was. Temecula Road. Was so noticeably hot.

Like the lead singer of that band was this like beautiful blonde girl. I saw it, Matt saw it america saw it and i was just like what was going down at like the after hours nema colin bar tyler c was there that weekend i gotta know the scoop on the temecula road lead singer like late night drinking with matt and tyler c that's an excellent point i think about they were great no they love their song but she she stole the show from piper for me i was like you're memorizing mesmerizing she was she she is beautiful and they're probably fans of the show and you're right they're probably like so is like tyler here yeah so tyler we all quarantined we've

just been in the nemacolin hot tub that's an excellent it's an excellent point if piper's really surprised me she kind of was into her i mean she said i'm falling in love with you he didn't say it back which obviously was like the big noticeable difference from the rachel date like he's not maybe you never know yeah that's that could be misleading and we may not have seen it but i it seems like in a season lacking physical chemistry piper seems to be the only one kind of bringing it out. And Matt. Yeah.

Yeah. They have like a, definitely like an E like a touchy, easy. And like, to me, it's normal on a date. Like to,

you should be touching someone like most of the time. Like when they're like walking around the carnival, like holding hands and like little arm touches and stuff. Like some of these dates, I feel like they sit down at dinner and I'm like, you guys are just haven't like had any contact. Yeah and again you're you have one usually it's one or two people you're into and in a world where you've been isolated from everyone you have no distractions you're like you're not hooking up with anyone there's nothing so with if there's one person

you're kind of into you're just like yes you want more is it weird that her date and kids date were both at night i was like are they getting gypped like the normal length of one-on-ones? I was confused. Oh, because they didn't have like the day date. Yeah, I feel like when Rachel hung out with him, she hung out with him for like 22 of 24 hours. And it was sort of like a quick nighttime carnival and a dinner. Kit's was all in like really a short amount of time.

Honestly, it all kind of evens out. It just kind of looks that way. A lot of it has to do. But there's a big gap normally on the day tonight yeah because also a lot of it has to do with like so many of these dates there's high production you know the bungee jumping or the like when and when vanessa and i went in the um the rocket the rock you know yeah the literal rocket zero gravity there's just a lot of like time to set up you're not really getting to hang out and with the my guess is with the the show being where it is in a hotel and they can't leave it allows them to kind of squeeze in more dates because they're they're ultimately getting the

same amount of time together that's good to know i'm glad people aren't getting not always their time not always but like you know sometimes they're they're able to do that because they don't necessarily have to use a whole day because it might take a whole day to film a day. But you're not necessarily getting a whole day day with that person. There might be a three hour drive to the location. On Piper's day, I was very fascinated at something you had said last week when we were because I want to talk about Abigail. I'm so confused and sad that she's like M.I.A. I was very fascinated at something you had said last week when we were, because I want to talk about Abigail. I'm so confused and sad that she's like MIA. But I thought that was so interesting when you were like,

it's not a great time that Abigail had to sort of like open up about her emotional story at a cocktail party. She didn't get to do it on one-on-one. Because everybody has that opportunity on their one-on-one to tell their story. And I was looking at what Piper's what Piper's sort of story was like she doesn't get verbal affirmation affirmation from her parents and I was like it was just such a direct thing that she had said about her mom and I it made me think of this last night to ask you about it have you ever talked to people about like is there like weird fallout with people's families when this airs when you sort of if I said something like that about my parents on national television I feel like they would be so hurt I I was I re-watched the episode this

morning and I had the exact thought that you had I I can only speak from my own experience on that that I was very mindful of things I was very mindful of what I said about anyone else in my life outside the show now I have a wonderful relationship with my parents, so I had nothing really to say. But even like exes, I was very vague and certainly didn't include names and the timing. I mentioned I got cheated on, but I didn't give a lot of specifics on who it was.

But you're right. I wonder the same thing. And she should speak her truth. I totally get if that's true for her. I just always wonder. a lot of specifics on who it was yeah but you're right i i wonder the same thing i would and she should speak her truth like i totally get if that's true for her i just always wonder i'm just like oh that's a kind of a cutting thing to be like i wish my mom said she loved me and i was like well maybe she will now because like everyone who knows both of you will know that you feel that way the biggest problem i have with that is you're right. Speak your truth, but speak it to your mom.

Right. That was like, that's why it was tough. Cause I would almost expect her maybe to have said like, and I've tried talking to my parents about it and it caused a big problem. And if it's like, you've already tried, but it was sort of like, it felt like new information. That's another, it was tough. That's another thing where I feel like a lot of people would be like, well, it's just because the producers, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like I and I've said this story before.

I've personal experience. Watch girls. You could tell they were like, I'm going to say this. I'm going to admit this to Nick. And there are times where it never made TV or producers were like, we're not we're definitely not going to. But there's a pressure. And, you know, you watch the show. They do give a lot of special attention airtime to tragic and sad stories yeah and you feel this pressure that's built in from being a fan of the show to come on and tell this

kind of like connecting and relatable story yeah and i think the pressure of wanting to get the guy to let you to go far it like people do that to themselves you know that moment in mean girls where like all the girls are going down in a line in the mirror of like the things they hate about themselves and lindsay lohan's like i have really bad breath in the morning i feel like sometimes their stories are like uh my like i i lost a dog once we found him a couple hours later it's like really funny when they don't have a tragic thing they're just like that happened with a kit or or serena c she was like you know that her life has been too charmed and it's hard or is it was it not serena

p or one of the the 101 the serena who got a 101 she was like you know my my dad didn't want me to go on the show and i did yeah you know i had to face face them i like kit despite i know she was getting a lot of flack for that but i do think she's very watchable i loved at the bowling date where she was like come on just invite us to the after party what do you want your wife to be a bowler like she was i like that that was a good line she just has like she's got great charisma and she's very fun to watch and that was a good 21 and i feel bad that she said a dumb thing about privilege and that people are gonna probably be hard on her about it but i'm in defense of kit i like you kit it comes across

not great but what is she supposed to say that's her that's true for her that's all she yeah she was also kind of a mean girl yeah yeah she was a better edit on it that is true she sort of like escaped she was on the peripheral well i don't know if it's much of a better edit is that she she was probably smart enough like we we were saying that she was part of the mean girl because it was clear that she was friends with uh she like went on that walk with victoria but she wasn't really saying anything she was just sort of like i'm not trying to have drama with victoria so i'll like kind of gab with her on this walk. But like she didn't. I thought you said they were disgusting.

It was unclear who was saying that. Oh, I thought Victoria said that and Kit was like, they're going to hear you if you say that too loud. It was unclear. She's like a savvy New York City girl. She's like, she reminds me like she seems like she went to like the fictional school from Gossip Girl. You know how to handle yourself amongst like. I've met a lot of girls from New York like like kit yeah they're all they're very interesting yeah yeah they're no there was a lot of like coming i'm from tampa and so coming to like i moved to la

when i was 18 for college and like it was very interesting like meeting the girls that had grown up in like big cities in new york and la and i was just like oh you guys are there it's an older 21 than the average yeah and like yeah and they're they come from privilege and it's just like and they're cool and they're really interesting and sometimes i've my friends who remind me of kit or it's just like you well you can't say that yeah you know it's just they're they come from a different world and it's kind of fascinating and i i kind of recognize it a little bit i feel like she's to be very heartbroken whenever she does go home. I see her genuinely being so into him.

Like I feel her crush on him. Interesting. I guess I really didn't. I couldn't really tell if Kits is kind of going along with it. No, when they were like baking cookies, I like saw my like college self having a crush on an older boy being like, oh, no, I feel I just I don't know. I feel like she really has a crush on him. Yeah.

And it's, you know, again, this is maybe a good time to talk about Abigail. I know you and I have a lot of passionate thoughts on the lack of Abigail on this entire season. And now we've gotten to the point of real concern. She didn't get a one on one this episode. The previews of the next episode suggest every like i feel it looks like it looks like just any uh i know you see her walk into like the like she gets some like there's no abigail i feel i was literally joking with a

friend where i'm like what if they filmed abigail's one-on-one and she was just wearing like a giant nbc t-shirt and they couldn't get it cleared. So they're not airing it. Like it feels like something crazy happened. It doesn't make sense because Abigail is great TV. She has an incredible story when she's on, even when she has no airtime and the little bit she gets, she pops. Everyone's like, oh, yeah, be quiet. Abigail's talking. Yeah.

And so it doesn't make it doesn't make sense from a producer standpoint clearly they would want her on the show so that tells me that matt um isn't sure about who he really likes he he has more of a top five or six rather than a top two right and that i i was made a friend that i was talking to about the show was saying maybe he felt so certain after giving her the first impression rose that they had a connection that he was like okay i have to now use all my one-on-ones to figure out who else i have a connection with but like i already know i like abigail so i'm not that worried about having a one-on-one with her again i'm not saying this is true i'm just like finding any explanation

and now it's like the process has gotten away from him and he like waited too long and now is like has this big crush on rachel and is like thinking about these other girls but it's like the process has gotten away from him and he like waited too long and now is like has this big crush on Rachel and is like thinking about these other girls. But it's just truly so crazy to me. If just any, it gets a one on one next weekend. Abigail doesn't like it makes zero explanation for that makes no sense. And again, that's where to me it shows the authenticity of like the show wants the lead to find love because and that must be coming from matt picking his exactly because like the lead has a hundred percent say on who they have a romantic connection with and the show is about love while making a tv show so if the lead's

like i want to invest my time in this person they're gonna they're gonna have that happen because they want the lead if the producers were completely in control of the show, I think Abigail would have had the first one on one because she's the most watchable, beloved person. Like Twitter goes crazy for her, like everyone in Bachelor Nation or. Exactly. So it's like she's not getting it. And there is an element. And the fact that Matt's never done this before and he's so new to this process, I don't know how it's affecting the show in a different way but definitely has an effect right because yeah you know he's he's learning as he goes right so for me for again i don't know if that has that's playing a role and why abigail's getting no time but it doesn't make sense you're right because from a

production standpoint they would want her you would want her on i mean obviously it's tough to be the bachelor of the bachelorette it's tough to be the lead of the show you have so much to balance i've heard you talk about it on the podcast before what do you think is matt's biggest disadvantage or maybe like in reverse like what was the thing that helped you the most being the bachelor that like it was because you'd been on the show before like what do you think he's like gonna be because to be? Because I think that's, like, a good theory. Yeah, because I was able to separate my personal goals of authentically wanting to meet someone. When they asked me to The Bachelor,

all I said is, like, I'll do this for free. I mean, I didn't, but I was like, I'll do this for free. I just care about, I was like I'll do this for free I just care about I want to meet someone if I'm gonna do this like there's so much like it would be great if this works like I yeah every lead I've said this on like and I'll say it a hundred times I want to meet someone like you want to they're so cute they have like three kids and you get nervous about that I was able to separate okay I can do this all while understanding there's a show to be made right it's it's about like in life i'll say on my ass nick episodes you're not trying to meet 50 people to marry

you just need to meet one yeah so like as long as you have one that's fun and so i think it's my guess is and i don't know and i have this hasn't been confirmed by anyone but in a show where you have a new like the producers i'm guessing just want matt to like feel comfortable you know go on these dates and it just might be too much to just try to explain kind of the nuances of production all while making sure matt's focused on meeting someone and i was able to be like i can do this while doing that exactly and i'm not saying matt can't but i don't know if they ever had those conversations where it's like let's just it's like bachelor the journey and then bachelor like the television show and they are both yeah so my guess is that benefited me because

i i could be like yeah there's a production element here but that doesn't take away for the sincerity i have with vanessa or rachel or raven right like but like i can have more fun with the corinnesins of the world. I went to middle school with Corinne. Wait, what? Yeah. I don't, I don't know her. She was in the grade above me.

She was just like a hot, cool eighth grader when I was like a nerdy- Wait, Corinne's older than you? Seventh grader. That's mind blowing to me. Yes. Because I think I'm 28, so she must be 29.

Yep. But she was like, that's my big bachelor claim to fame is that she was like a cool, popular eighth grader. She guarantee has no idea who I am, but I attended her middle school. We had a uniform that was like pretty dorky. Like it was like a collared shirt and like khaki shorts

made everybody look bad. But there was just like a few girls in each grade that I'm like, you somehow look hot. Yeah, she like pulled it off. She like looked cool in like the khaki shorts and like a little green polo Corinne's all right I I definitely uh learned to appreciate Corinne's antics I mean she's not she's a flawed human we all are incredible television incredible television but yeah so that is my guess is that um with Matt being new there was like let's let's let Matt focus on his love

story and we'll worry about the other stuff and I feel like I could do both right and and if I wasn't like into an Abigail romantically I would have been like we need to have Abigail

go further because she's so because I'm good with my two or three favorites like i don't know who i'm gonna pick but it's one of these three yeah kind of thing and and matt might and then you combine the fact that matt's talked about not having a lot of romantic experience so i think that's playing a role too like this is a guy who has a limited dating history he's never been in love by his own admission so that would tell me that matt is having a harder time figuring out what he likes that can in the real world that can be an advantage and disadvantage like sometimes the disadvantage of knowing what you like is you

keep going after the wrong person right but at least you lock in and you're just like oh i like this person and if you have a limited dating history you're kind of like i don't know who i should like and i feel like that's what we're seeing from matt it's almost i mean i know it's crazy to use the words like leading on because it's like a show where he's dating a bunch of people but i feel like to give someone the first impression rose which everybody knows in like this world is just an objectively big deal yes and then to not give them one-on-one for so long i almost feel like it's like a little i don't want to say mean like maybe mean sounds too strong of a word but like that's feel like it's like a little, I don't want to say mean, like maybe mean sounds too strong of a word, but like, that's really confusing. It's like, I'll have friends that are dating someone and be like, Oh, I was, you know, doing this. And the guy I'm dating,

like showed up in this big way and brought me flowers and helped me build furniture and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, sounds like he's serious about you. And then a week later, they're like, Oh, I'm not looking for a relationship. And I'm like, you know, he shouldn't have built your shelf. If that's how he felt. I'm like, he shouldn't have given her the rose. I think that's, you can chuck that under, like, there's so much going on this season. All these people, like Matt's probably, it's not, it's not even his peripheral. It's just like, I feel bad. I just, I do feel like that is so mixed signals.

Like I would be like, I feel bad for her. I feel like he like let her on a little if he is not into her. I don't feel bad for her i feel like he like let her on a little if he is not into her i i don't feel bad for her because she's still there yeah she still has a chance to shine in some way that we might have not have gotten to see yet there's always paradise i like listen they made hannah brown the bachelorette and she didn't have a ton of air time no and the airtime she got she wasn't particularly likable and she ended up being an excellent bachelorette i remember being disappointed when they announced her and then like she's been one of my favorite bachelorettes i

loved her season so that's why i'm fine with her being a little disappointed yeah uh because do you think there's it's possible that something happened off camera that we haven't seen like they had a conversation at a cocktail party that was like really awkward or like she was like oh yeah and by the way like i hate the piano and he's like oh i'm passionate about the piano like some weird disagreement or something anything's possible i don't know why i use piano as an example i don't think not likely my my guess is like it's a combination of uh matt doesn't isn't quite sure what he likes and it's and right now they're they want to make sure matt ends up with someone and likes someone so that's where these things are going but the only argument the only thing that's flaw in that

argument the flaw in that argument is is like josenia like matt's not gonna pick her we all know matt knows he's not gonna pick her she's on a two-on-one why is she getting another date over abigail i don't fucking i don't it doesn't make any sense also does get a one-on-one next weekend which wasn't in the preview but i feel maybe you would but wouldn't you want once you'd like tell america hey guys we've been like she's it's she's so likable it's super bizarre like and i feel like there's not normally things on this show that feel like a legitimate mystery to the that's why my head is going like something weird happened that we don't know about yeah like i mean ladies oh is she that she's so likable right are we is it just are we just biased

amanda and ellie no she's amazing it's not about the yeah i don't see their chemistry but i'm saying when she comes on you're just like this we need she's just also like a very root you want to root for her a breath of fresh air and like not even just because she's like the first like person with like Disability to be featured on the show or I don't know if she's the first like second not not just for that reason But like it's just simply like her personality. I feel like is not the most common personality type yeah Also, she doesn't strike me as like super like the poster child who's gonna be like gummy hair

Vitamins kind of a girl and so it's like a refreshing yeah well also because like last season on peter's season there was a lot of chris like by the end of the season you kind of didn't want to root for anyone yeah no that was and and this season you got more like michelle's very likable a big fan of brie yeah we haven't talked about brie michelle so there was a moment on this episode where when Matt and Michelle talk, I feel like they are like such a good team. Like they remind me of like mom and dad. I'm like, if you guys have like kids and like little Timmy like breaks his arm,

like you guys are just going to be like a good team. They understand each other. There's definitely a natural fit. I get mom and dad energy of like you guys would be a great partnership but and they're nice but like i i'm not i'm not rooting for michelle like i feel like michelle's gonna be fine in life i feel like brie's gonna be fine in life and i'm not saying abigail's not gonna be but there's something about abigail you just you wanted to win yeah you want it and you we've missed that the past couple seasons of like having this like really for whatever reason like

someone you're really invested in their success. And I feel like they have that with Abigail, and I don't get why we're being not given that. Do you think that she would have a chance of being the Bachelorette? Yeah. She's still my pick, despite the lack of storyline. Because I don't know who. I mean, I love Brie. I think she literally blows me away how gorgeous and cool she is. storyline i don't know who i mean i love brie i think she's like literally blows me away how gorgeous and cool she is but i don't know i think she's too reserved yeah too

reserved she i just not seeing enough personality for me imagine i don't know how they'd like market a season around and even like abigail the limited time she's had there's been a couple moments where she seems willing to like express herself and she's chimed in a little bit where like i i feel like abigail will express herself if she was like you need a bachelorette they like their bachelorettes to chirp back and yell at the guys and and you know so yeah i mean there's a lot of talk about katie being the bachelorette people like her yeah people like her i don't know i mean yeah i think katie would be interesting i'm not rooting for katie's love story as much as i am when i picture like how i imagine katie and again like sorry katie i don't know you i'm just guessing this when i picture her falling in love with

someone she seems like the kind of person who would be like best friends with a guy for a while and then they would like develop this really awesome relationship off of like a friendship. Cause she just has such a sort of like friend vibe to her. And it's hard. It's like, you're not going to like become friends with like the 30 guys on your cast. Like you have to be the kind of person that has like,

like kind of heated chemistry with people quickly to be like a good. Katie is definitely a talker and she's articulate and and that would be good but yeah i'm not i'm not rooting i thought when matt sent katie home like usually you want like a tearful goodbye right they didn't feel like the limo ride that sets up the next yeah matt matt was just like hey so i can't give this rose katie goes okay and then matt goes can i walk you out yeah and then it was anticlimactic and it was just my friends and i we've what the girls i watch with were always like pay attention to the limo rides because like the person that they're going to pick as the next lead they normally give them a very specific type of exit yeah there's a

very need to play that in the package at the beginning of the next season yes you want to yes there's a there's an emphasis on... They'll air more of the back. They're in the SUV and they're like, I just hope I find someone one day. And it's like, maybe in a couple months on this exact program. Yeah, and Katie's was, you know, whatever.

Yeah, it was like the air coming out of the balloon a little bit. It was a total... But they're... But I loved her Tyler C date. We haven't talked about Tyler C at all. Tyler C and Matt, chemistry off the charts. I love those boys together.

Unfortunate for Katie, it was like she definitely had the least amount of chemistry on that date. But that was the most fun date. Oh my God, the prank was so fun. By the way, that is to me such a good date to do between people who do have like a lot of sexual chemistry. Like I would be very curious how like him and Rachel would have been on that date because it's such a fun, like what an authentic way to get to know someone if you like fucking around with their friend. Like that's like real life of like when you're hanging out with like your boyfriend and his

friend. I totally agree. I was watching and I thought to myself, why is Katie getting this date? Yeah. Because again, nothing against Katie because again nothing against solidifying her like friend yeah it was like clearly there's not a there's there's just no connection here that's a friend zone and it's a great date idea i would love to see someone who matt isn't gonna send home yeah you know like have like their friends yeah i remember on ben higgins season like lauren

bushnell who ended up picking got a date that was like meeting his friends at like a bar it was like i remember it was weird because it was like pre hometowns and like or me unless i'm mixing that up for some reason i thought there was a date that like they were in indiana and she got to like meet friends of his at a bar and i was like oh this feels so normal like they look like they're legitimately like boyfriend and girlfriend well like on my season went to wisconsin i had raven I didn't pick her, but she was my runner up. Like you, you use those dates on people like they're, you're trying to move a relationship forward. So it just seemed weird given the intimacy and the connection with Tyler and the importance of like, why don't we use Tyler C to like, you you know meet his front runner and like get his opinion

or or one of the not not a girl he's about to send home yeah you know matt didn't figure out in the middle of the date that he didn't have it with katie like he clearly at least started the day being like this could end badly for you do you think matt really wants to be like engaged right now when i saw when him and tyler they're like roommates they're just both like eight five they live in new york i'm like these guys have to be killing it being single like why do either one of you want to be settled down right now i couldn't speak for that but it would you know they asked matt to be the bachelor if i was matt i would be single as hell i'm like you guys have a cool setup yeah it's a cool bodies. Cool faces. It wouldn't blow my mind.

You must have an easy time being single. It wouldn't blow my mind if finding love wasn't like Matt's number one priority over the next two years before he was asked to be the bachelor. Yeah. Because what? He's still. I think he's like my age, right? He's like 28. 28, 29.

Like that's like, I don't know. For guys, I feel like that's still like on the younger side. Yeah. I don't know for guys I feel like that's still like on the younger side. Yeah. I mean especially for a guy who's living in New York and has it like he's he's kind of just got into his dating life like he hasn't actively been dating you know. It's like I want this to work out for him but he seems like someone who needs like maybe one or two sort of biggest relationships and then he's going to settle down and he's like in another five years. five years to that to that point you know i don't whoever if matt picks someone it would it wouldn't be necessarily a relationship i'm really going to be banking on yeah to last i mean i think the set against whoever he might end up with but yeah and also i'm just not seeing i'm not seeing it i

know and it's funny coming off of like taisha and zach coming off of like there's a deafness i really do think they're gonna get married like they just seem like they're both so about that relationship and each other and like who knows what's gonna happen who knows but you're right like zach's been through it you know like taisha's been married and divorced they they've experienced enough life where they could say they to get through the pitfalls and there's a pressure we all put on ourselves later in life if we've had a couple situations that haven't worked out you're you know with with matt he's kind of like yeah what if it doesn't work out fuck it you know i'm still like yeah it's just my first crack at this thing like yeah and get no criticism of matt like they asked he said yes like but yes he's not i

think he's doing a good job but i do i wish he was like i feel like he has a really fun goofy personality at least on like i mean this is silly to say but like on instagram like i feel like him and tyler were posting a lot in the beginning of quarantine they were like living in a house in florida together there was like i feel like he's not being as goofy and like comfortable as i wish he was on the show i think he's a little focused on saying like the right bachelor stuff but there is like an added pressure on him I can which they talked about the beginning of the season first black bachelor like I completely totally and also like the show is like the bachelor is not a comedy like bachelor in paradise is yeah like Matt could be cracking all these jokes and they're not airing that's true that's true um and it's it's just a

it's just a tougher setup but uh yeah I don't't know. Overall, my I think Matt's doing great. My only I guess criticism would be like whatever role he's playing in the lack of chemistry. I think it's like this season's lacking that hotness. Turn up the heat. Yeah. Throw some spicy. Use a couple of those walls that are all over the place. So many walls. So many walls. Just clearly women to be pushed against. Clearly a pool table there. where is that like you know why couldn't matt have a date of someone you want to put on a pool table like there's always like normally the one person a season who's like sort of like bringing that like i don't i feel stupid saying like naughty energy

but that's like trying to sneak to the leads room or whatever yeah i i don't see anyone left who like really wants to go for you yeah well can i was like you know that again go back to like bad beat i was like hey can i see andy i'd love to see her they're like sure well you know and then when i thought i was i thought i was doing some sort of romantic gesture little did i know i look like a guy like stalking the bachelorette and breaking in her hotel room like what are you gonna do so i feel like the three front runners right now i mean we haven't gotten a ton of brie airtime but i still think she's a front runner i think it's like brie

rachel and michelle i feel relatively confident in saying final three that they'll be definitely three of the four hometowns but to me whoever that fourth hometown spot is is like the biggest wild card like i don't have a guess for that fourth spot i agree i mean i'm but i do like not knowing what's gonna happen no it's great i but i the only confident person the only hometown i'm now confident about and i was much more confident is rachel i don't see how she doesn't get a hometown yeah no i think she and i agree with you i guess i'd put brie in there i know it's like, but then there's Serena P who, and then Michelle, you know, I don't know.

And then, and then Piper. I know it's like, that's, I feel like there's like a wild card spot. I guess those are just the three. I don't, I no longer think it's Abigail.

Abigail's not going to get a hometown. I feel like she's gone next week. Chelsea are probably going to be gone soon. Yeah. I don't know. It's really tough i hope that that there's like a breakthrough and that he starts like getting the the feels and the hots for people and we'll see i mean the season opened up with matt like having a breakdown and chris asking if it was okay and matt saying it's not we haven't seen that yet i'm not sure what that's. He hasn't gotten like too flustered yet. Yeah.

And I am concerned for the rest of the season, given like the lack of. Do you think the lack of travel is like hurting? Like, I feel like there's something so like, oh my God. And like, now we're in Italy together. And there's something so bonding about like being in a new place with someone and doing all the travel and it makes it feel so grand. do you think that's hurting the connections of like not having their normal formula of like we're whisking you to spain no i think it's more a matt thing okay okay but i do i

think it's affecting the show but i i do you mean claire claire and dale you know like that that their chemistry was wow off the charts in the first day i mean you know i'm just saying side it was yeah i'm just saying like i think it's more the personality yeah it's just a more of a i think a more of a reserved guy and i hope he lets himself get swept up in the process slightly more than he has so far yeah well we'll see i i hope so but it's truly been hard to figure out who he's really into. But it is just so fun to feel back in a big sweeping place. Like the way, like, you know, the La Quinta season was tough. And yeah. Well, I mean, it would have been much easier for Heather to show up at La Quinta.

Yeah, seriously. She had to drive cross country. In a big old white minivan. And then they have her driving that in the dress like they showed her putting on like the see-through heels and driving the minivan and i'm like i hope she took them off it was 100 a dick move to try to really reinforce that she might have actually driven in a minivan across country yeah like my friends are like should i double text this guy i'm like absolutely don't do that i can only imagine if one of my friends was like should i drive across the country in a minivan and

go onto the batch i'd be like i feel like that's not super hard to get i wouldn't do that yeah and i don't know heather but i i think she's like a nice person smart enough not and has friends to be like maybe that's not the move yeah so i don't think heather realized that what she was getting into but that's okay she'll she'll be fine uh jordan again thank you so much uh remind people where they can find you uh talk about all the the fun projects you're working on um i have instagram and twitter i uh created a show that's on hulu the first season is on hulu it's called doll face which uh our our wonderful friend Esther. Yes, Esther Pivitsky, one of the stars of, one of my favorite people. There's a brief scene in one of the episodes in the first season where I have the girls watching a fictional season of The Bachelor to just like a little Easter egg of my own fandom.

And yeah, the second season is underway, TBD, when we'll be able to have it out in the world with all the delays with COVID. But yes, Dollface. out the the first season i'm confident saying that everyone who listens to this podcast would be interested i think yeah there's probably some like overlapping energies it's like female friendship dynamics yes 100 yeah uh thanks so much it's been a ton of fun and uh you'll uh you'll have to come back to do this again in future seasons would love that uh thanks for listening guys don't forget to send your questions at ask nick at cast me.com cast with a k we are back tomorrow with dr berman to talk about all things sex love relationships valentine's day how to make valentine's day a great day for you regardless of your

relationship situation uh it was a lot of fun talking to her. She's been an expert in the relationship and dating and sex space for a long time. And we had so much fun talking to her. Five star reviews, all that fun stuff. We will see you back tomorrow.