The Viall Files - E235 Butterflies Are A Warning With Dr. Laura Berman

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

Today we are joined by  sex, love, and relationship expert Dr. Laura Berman.  Dr. Berman is a New York Times bestselling author, award-winning radio host, and television personality with groundbreaking NYT bestsellers, her programs on the OWN Network, and she has been educating people on how to love and be loved better for the last 3 decades. Nick and Dr. Berman talk through some of the common relationship misconceptions as well as what you can do this Valentine’s Day that can help you create healthy communication and sexual habits.  Dr. Berman is now embarking on her own podcast called “The Language of Love” dropping soon.    “When we are having a relationship with someone else, we are really having a relationship with ourselves through that person.”   Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:   Upstart: http://www.upstart.com/VIALL to see how Upstart can help today. Adam & Eve: http://www.adamandeve.com use code VIALL for 50% off almost any item, free 3 item mystery – something for him, something for her and something you’ll both enjoy, 6 free movies AND free shipping Better Help: http://www.betterhelp.com/VIALLFILES to get 10% off your first month  Echelon: http://www.echelonfit.com/VIALL use code VIALL for 30 day free trial   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @drlauraberman See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Well, what is going on, everybody? Happy Wednesday to you all. I am Nick, your host. Chrissy is with me right now. We actually decided to re-record this intro. We are excited for this episode and our guest, Dr. Laura Berman, who is here to talk with us about all things relationships, sex, dating, and specifically Valentine's Day and how we can make the best of our Valentines, regardless

of our relationship status or our situation. We recorded this episode last Friday, and the reason why we're recording it this intro today is that very tragically and very sadly after we recorded this episode Dr. Berman's son tragically and unexpectedly passed away over the weekend and I don't know the specific day but it's been in the news and it's something we wanted to, with her blessing, I guess just let you guys know, and from a timing standpoint, certainly we didn't want to make it seem like this tragedy happened, and then all of a sudden Dr. Berman was in the was still okay with us releasing this episode, mostly because it's a positive episode. And, you know, Valentine's Day can be tougher for a lot of people. And a lot of things that Dr. Laura and I talked about, we thought were inspirational and inspiring and could be helpful. So we wish Dr. Berman our thoughts or prayers and in this very difficult and tragic time for her family and our hearts go out to her. But yeah, so thanks for listening.

I hope you guys do enjoy this episode. Please send Dr. Berman your best wishes and prayers her way. Don't forget to send in your questions at AskNickAtCastMe.com. We do have some Valentine's Day merch out there. We even have a Valentine's Day special for our merch. If you are interested, code ALONE for 20% off. Thought we'd have some fun with the code. So check that out at VileFiles.com. I think that's it. I don't, you know, I think let's just get to Dr. Berman. And again, I hope you guys enjoy this episode. Happy early Valentine's Day out there for all the people. And I hope this episode will

inspire you to have a healthy approach regardless to what your relationship situation is. Dr. Laura Berman, thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat. We love our relationship experts on this show, of which you are, and have been doing this for some time now. So thank you for joining. Thanks. I'm really happy to be here.

Valentine's Day. Valentine's. I'm always very sensitive about how my enunciation with Valentine's. Yeah, you always say Valentine's. No, I don't. I say Valentine's, but I mumble. So now I have to enunciate. Do you ever have that problem? No, Valentine's Day is like my Super Bowl.

It is your Super Bowl. Oh my gosh, I'm so busy this time of year. So yeah, I don't have a problem saying it. I say it so much. Other things I have a problem enunciating, but not Valentine's Day. Well, I've gotten better. I have to actively think of the end. Yeah. In Valentine's Day. Anyway. That may be symbolic that you have trouble saying it. Why do you?

I don't know. Should we dive right into that? I don't know. I can't help it. I'm obsessed with this I can't help it. I'm obsessed with this theory already. Obsessed. What could that possibly mean? On its own, it doesn't mean anything.

And I'm no expert on you, although I certainly have watched The Bachelor. I think there may be a connection there. That's all I'll say so far. But let's keep talking because I'll probably say more but I but sometimes when you have trouble pronouncing a specific word that has a lot of meaning there is an unconscious resistance to claiming that meaning I'm in trouble I mean this is not even three minutes I know we're two seconds in here I can't for not i can't talk i mean so the valentine's day is your super bowl obviously a lot of thoughts and opinions about the day a lot of people will get discouraged from it especially people who don't find themselves in relationships also people find who find themselves in relationships will be discouraged by it because of some built-in

expectations what are your overall overall views on the day? Do you like it? Do you? Other than it keeps you busy. It keeps you busy. Anything that's about love, I love. You know, I know a lot of people say, oh, it's a Hallmark holiday. You know, it's a bunch of crap, whatever.

You know, and I agree that every day should be Valentine's Day, but Lord knows it isn't because none of us are that good at it. So the fact that there's one day to kind of really focus on love, I think is really valuable. And you're absolutely right that people, you know, who aren't in a relationship or who are unhappy in their relationships, you know, this is a day that can be hard. But it's also, to me, an opportunity to get really, really clear whether you're in a relationship that isn't great or you really want to call love into your life. It's a time you can still focus on love in terms of what you really want to create moving forward.

For anyone, I guess, what's the healthiest way to start thinking about? So anyone who's listening to this, Valentine's Day is less than a week away. What is a kind of a healthy approach to looking at the day, regardless of the romantic situation you find yourself in? I think it's no matter what your romantic situation is, you know, unless you're like really, really struggling and totally emotionally isolated, you have some love in your life, even if it's with your pet, you know. you have some love in your life, even if it's with your pet, you know? And so this is a time to really marinate yourself as much as possible in that love and connection. And obviously, if you can with another human being, that's even better. But sometimes it's just your cat or your dog or your turtle, you know? And I think the main thing is if you are unhappy in love, meaning you really want to bring someone in or you want to change your relationship. I don't like New Year's resolutions. I just have a thing about it.

I, you know, one ever keeps them, but I love, I love like relationship resolutions. And so I like to use Valentine's day, not to get clear on like, you know, I'm going to find a man or a woman or whatever, but to get super, super clear. And this is the key of, of, you know, what I have found and what I've been writing about and teaching about, you know, is that it's about getting super clear on not the qualities you want in your love life, but really how you want to feel in your love life. And if you focus on that, like, let me ask you, are you,

are you currently in a thing? Yeah, sure. I'm in a thing. OK, so are you going to celebrate Valentine's Day? I believe you can't say it. I believe we are. I've been informed that a Valentine's Day gift has been purchased for myself. And have you purchased hers yet? No. Okay. I haven't thought about it.

There's still time. I'm not the best gift giver, not in my love language. Yeah. I do think that I do actually, and it's not an excuse, practice the idea of it being every day. I always like, I don't wait for a special day to try to do special things but are you really doing that or is that a cop-out like would you know i really do special things yeah okay so like there was a time like i mean this is you know i we were out shopping and she tried on something i could tell she really liked it and i don't like

buying things for people because it like i i don't feel like it and i don't like buying things for people because it like i i don't feel like i like i don't like the idea of like i'm buying love i don't like that yeah but uh and that's because gifts isn't your love language sure yeah so you're gonna love i'm resist i'm resistant to it so uh but she's trying it on she looked at the price tag she thought to herself you know i'm know, maybe not the right time. So I just like grabbed it and bought it for her. Do you know what her language of love is? Yeah.

What? She really liked words of affirmation. I think it would be her top one, quality time. We're pretty similar. So how are you with writing? Writing? Define writing. Like, you know, could you write?

Since she's about affirmation, could you write since she's about affirmation could you write her something about what she means to you or could you make a little see you're resistant to this relationship you haven't fully committed yet i can tell by your eyes that you haven't i'm resistant to talking about it okay all right so let's just it's a just just there's a difference in your terms it's like it'll be just just there's a difference in your terms it'll be the second time in a week we've actually ever talked about her on the podcast all right so let's not talk specifically let's talk about it's fine it's fun okay so how when you think about what you really want to create with her or just in love in general what would you say i mean ideally five

but let's just start with three way three feelings like with her that if you could design your perfect relationship with her or with anyone, how would you feel day in and day out? Would it be passionate, playful, joyful, cherished, appreciated, protected? Safe. Protected would be up there. Okay. Appreciative, I guess. Appreciated. be up there okay um uh appreciative i guess appreciated appreciated and uh passionate sure okay i like those you're just no i don't like those sound good no i've definitely for me as i've gotten older right in relationships i really value um the ability to be myself yeah and and have an environment in which we both can truly just be ourselves without criticism or judgment so accept it acceptance

acceptance acceptance and when you feel accepted you feel loved yeah as well okay you feel loved as well. Okay. We often try to avoid having tough conversations, both in relationships and our financial situations. And while hopefully this episode is helping you address some of your relationship problems, we are also here to help with some of your financial struggles as well. You know,

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So those are the kinds of things, you know, when I talk about relationship resolutions, that's what I'm talking about is getting really clear inside yourself first, how it is that you really, really want to feel. And then whether you're in a relationship or not, really making a commitment over the next year to create as much of that feeling in yourself as well as in a relationship or not, really making a commitment over the next year to create as much of that feeling in yourself as well as in your relationship. So if you were single and one of the ways that you really wanted to feel was, you know, appreciated, let's say,

right, then you would be looking for opportunities to express and receive appreciation all over the place, you know, not just in relationship. You would be looking to be in the energy of appreciation as much as possible. And what we now know from quantum physics and, you know, that's the science behind the law of attraction and everything else is that feelings is really the key. So if you spend even 51% of your time in places and situations where you feel appreciated and can express appreciation and marinate in appreciation, you start noticing that people show up in your life and respond to you in really appreciative

ways, including potential partners, if you were single or your present partner. You know, that's what I call quantum love. That was my last book. But it's like a whole it's all about being in the feeling of that which you want to create. And that's really where the the relationship resolutions start. And then you can start creating some action items from there. For the people approaching Valentine's Day, you're just you're trying to set, you know, manifest destiny, so to speak. Right. You're trying to manifest the environment in would you feel if you were with a guy who you knew was unequivocally faithful to you can you move yourself into even just imagining how that would feel inside your body I mean I love that you say that it validates I feel like the thing sometimes I tell our callers uh is that that we spend a lot of time,

I hate the list building, right? Like I want a college graduate or he doesn't have tattoos or she doesn't smoke. And it's like, yeah, I guess those are all nice. But how do they make you feel is I think often something is surprising how many people don't ask themselves that when they're kind of evaluating someone they've been on a few dates with and they're considering like moving forward, investing in that relationship. And they have never asked themselves like, how do I, how do I feel? They're like more worried about them either liking them or some kind of, you know, these lists kind of qualities of like, Ooh, like I like his job. He's passionate about his job or he makes me laugh. I guess that's a feeling that's nice, but they're still all, even those qualities,

even those things that they are saying they want, they're still looking for a feeling. They just are unconsciously imagining that if they have a guy or a woman who doesn't smoke or who is a college graduate, that that will create an outcome and then they'll be able to feel a certain way. So instead of getting so

specific, which is going to limit your possibilities and also create limitations on love, get really, really clear further down the road. Like if you had a guy who was a college graduate, what would that mean for you? And most importantly, then how would you feel? But at the same time, I think it does come. So it seems to work against people sometimes because you'll hear a lot of people say like, I really like this person, but it bugs me that they do this or they, or this is their job.

It comes across as kind of, you know, petty or silly. And it's like, everything's great. I'm so excited. I'm happy, but it just,

it bugs me. They, they do this. I'm like, well, I don't get over it. You know, that would be nice. See what I would approach it a little differently. I would go in there with them and say, okay, this thing that bugs you, what's your story about what it says about you, about the life you're going to have together, about how you're going to feel day in and day out, because the reason it bugs them is because they have some story. Sometimes it's even unconscious, about what that means for them and for their life. Well, listen, I don't care if it's Valentine's Day or it's Tuesday. Sometimes we just need to talk to someone to help ourselves with our mental health. And sometimes we are struggling.

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Don't forget to use our code V-I-A-L-L. Try it right now. You can get Echelon Fitness Equipment at home for 30 days. Don't forget to use our code V-I-A-L-L when you are doing it. Riding that bike, that is. Is it like an expectation they've had for themselves? An expectation they've had. And it's almost like, you know, I like to call them stories. Because we all have stories that come from our beliefs that got implanted early in life about who we are and what's possible in love, since we're talking about love. And then from there, we sort of, like you and I could both go outside and it would be raining, right? And I could,

for me, rain could be cozy and yummy and like the best thing ever. And so I'll go outside and be like, oh my God, it's raining. Because my story is that rain means coziness, yummy, cuddling, romantic. For you, let's say rain, you know, was when your dad would get drink home all day and get abusive or something. Right. And so I'm not saying that's it, but just the same argument. And then you go outside and, you know, you see it's raining. And for you, your story is that rain means danger and you hate it when it rains. Right. So everyone is really different. And getting clear on your story about what these qualities mean to you, you know, I think is how you get over them.

Because once you recognize the story, you all often say well that's freaking ridiculous I don't really feel that I don't think that and then you can start to unwind it but it's hard to just get over it when you go sure yeah although it'd be nice if we could the story thing is amazing I used to do that with with like somebody and it would be like the story I'm telling myself is this oh I do that and it helps like communication so much. It really helps. And I, you know, that's one of the best ways to communicate in relationships. I mean, that's how I communicate with my husband when I'm pissed story.

I'm telling myself or when I'm just feeling insecure, like the story I'm telling myself as you walk behind me up the stairs that my ass looks really big. No. Because I'm self-conscious. Do you say that to him? Yeah. It really works. It really works. It's kind of crazy.

Because I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm just claiming my story. He can't, and if we're in an argument, you know, my story is that you did this because of that. I'm not saying you did this because of that. I'm saying I have a story about that. So if someone says that in a relationship, yeah, the story I'm telling myself is that I'm losing my hair, you know, as a guy, you know,

a guy says that to his wife, like what's the best way to handle that when your partner expresses an insecurity that have that may not have anything to do with you, like your ass, you think your ass looks big or you would say the same kind of thing he said to me he's like to me your ass is perfect I don't know if it's bigger or smaller I don't monitor that and I don't want to but I think you're hot as hell right and you could say the same thing to someone you know I can't unless they really are balding right and it's obvious to all of you but if it's just you know what happens if that is the case then he is I mean you just own it if it's if it's a story and you can both visually see that the guy's got no hair, then you can say, yeah, maybe it's falling out.

I don't know. Really? Yep. But you know what? Losing your hair is actually a symptom of having really high testosterone, which means you're very virile. So actually, it's a sexy thing. As I look at Nick's full head of hair.

Just kidding. He's a snack. He's a sensitive new age guy. I was told by my doctor last December that I have the testosterone of a 23 year old. Oh, very nice. Just want to throw that out there. Just in case anyone was concerned about your fire. You talk a lot about the fear of rejection.

We talk a lot about that on this podcast. And I have said to people that, especially early on in relationships, a big way to advance this relationship is to address this fear be okay be okay with sometimes hearing the disappointment because being afraid to be disappointed uh sometimes causes us to avoid conversations avoid topics we don't want to define the relationship because we're you know well if i don't ask then i won't right but i can just keep hanging out you know it drives me crazy and we constantly seem to avoid questions that we should be asking, especially early in dating situations. And we don't because we're just afraid of what that answer might be. And clarity, while scary, is often our best friend in advancing relationships.

And just wondering if you have anything more to add to how do we address our fears and how do we put it in practice, especially in Valentine's Day. Maybe there's uh people listen to this podcast who've been hanging out with a guy for a few weeks and valentine's day is around the corner and they like they want to give them a gift or maybe this is a great opportunity to check in and they're just afraid to do it how can we address these fears well okay so let's just talk in general terms for a second and then we'll go to valentine's day in general terms for a second and then we'll go to Valentine's Day in general terms you know I love that lyric from um that pink song we're not broken just bent we can learn to love again um because the heart doesn't break it bends and and each heartbreak and so we're we most of us

spend our lives so freaking scared of having our heart broken when the truth is i can absolutely with a hundred percent assure you know sure or surety guarantee you you're gonna have your heart broken several times in your life maybe not in love but in in other ways and if you haven't i'm more concerned about like what's wrong with you what where's your heart well like more just like what has stopped you from going for what has stopped you but even if you haven't gone for it in a job or with an illness or with a death or, you know, you're going to have your heart broken no matter how much you try to protect it. It will frickin break and it will break many times, but it doesn't really break. It just bends. And what you find the best way to get over fear of rejection is to experience rejection.

best way to get over fear of rejection is to experience rejection. Because each time you do, you have your heart broken. If you're open to that, then what happens is that what I find time and time again is that you realize, yeah, you're going to lick your wounds. You're going to feel like crap for a little while. You may curl up into a ball, but then you'll be okay. You won't die. You won't disappear. Your heart actually gets stronger. You learn things about yourself. You learn things about what you want out of love. And it's that much better the next time. And so the best cure is really in taking that leap and recognizing that it's not going to kill you. And then each time you survive it and you realize, you know, that the little heart cracks are where the light gets through, you know, then you get less and less afraid. But I guarantee you that each time you take a risk, it won't necessarily turn out perfectly.

You know, you got to be prepared for that. But that's part of the purpose. Is there anything specific that someone like an expert, like kind of like what you said before, Is there anything specific that someone like an expert, like kind of like what you said before? You know, I've said this before as well, but, you know, a lot of times I'm sure you've experienced you give advice. Yeah. Sounds great person. Here's the advice. Sounds great. And then, you know, they get off the phone or they go home.

Definitely don't take advice. How do we get to that point? You start small. Right. So maybe, you know, your biggest fear of rejection is in love, right? So take a little risk at work or with, and then maybe practice with someone you're kind of into, but you're not a hundred percent sure. And your heart's not a hundred percent like open to them. And then you can work your way up. I find that that can be really, really valuable. And the other thing that's, that's underneath all of that is that, you know, almost always, if not always, when we are living with that

kind of fear of rejection, it's because of painful rejections and traumatic abandonments that happened much earlier in life. And so if you're really struggling with that and you have a really hard time taking those risks, chances are you have a little bit of work you can do to address those earlier traumas and the way that you kind of internalized low self-worth, which is really what's underneath fear of rejection, and, you know, heal some of that. And as you do, then once again, you separate out the story that I'm not worthy. The fact that, you know, the story that I have that I'm not really worthy of love or that I'm not going to survive the rejection isn't really about the adult person I am now.

That's really the eight-year-old talking who's, you know, watched her dad drive away and never come back or said he'd be back next weekend. And, you know, all of a sudden I was with his new family. And, you know, like there are all of these things that happen to us that we internalize, never process. And then we carry that into our love relationships. We're all just complicated. You talk a lot about attachment styles. Yeah.

We've talked about this on the show a while ago with a guest that we had. And I think it's a good refresher for our audience to discuss attachment styles i i didn't know anything about it until maybe about a year and a half ago and i found it to be really fascinating how how can we you know like love languages is like a thing yeah and that's pretty a pretty simple idea and there's like a quiz we can go on and figure out what our love language is. How do we become more educated when it comes to attachment styles? And can you give us a refresher on what that even is so that we can kind of be aware of it in our relationships?

I like to think of it more like a tendency. A tendency, okay. A tendency that some of us have more of a tendency than others based on those earlier life. It's all based on the earlier life experiences when it comes to our attachment stuff. So we can blame our parents for everything? Yeah, we can blame them for everything. The sort of ideal, which most of us don't have, because very few of us learned how to love or had a healthy model of that growing up, is a secure attachment, right? So the way I like to categorize it, the easiest way to understand it

is how you feel about, do you feel positively or negatively around your own worth kind of thing about yourself and about the other person. So someone who has a secure attachment tendency is someone who feels like they are worthy of love. They feel good about themselves and they feel that others, you know, are worthy of love as well and, you know, are good, are going to not hurt them for the most part and that they can expect to be loved, right? That's something that we learn automatically early in life based on how we were treated. Can I expect to be loved back when I love or not, right? So someone with secure attachment style tendency would feel secure about themselves, good about themselves, and good about others.

Someone with more of an anxious attachment tendency, that would be more what you hear about as the codependent, you know, in its extreme form. Just when I don't know how much of it is real or not, but when I saw you on The Bachelor, I would say if you aren't secure, if anything, you're anxious, not tendency, because the anxious attachment feels, you know, builds the other up more than themselves. So they'll feel positively about the other and less positively about themselves. So that's the person that may not have the best boundaries, get into relationships with people who don't necessarily treat them well, have fears that they're going to be abandoned in their extreme, you know, I'm not saying all of this describes you, but if you find that you tend to put more value on the other person than yourself, right? And in its extreme form,

you have huge fears of abandonment and you're really insecure and you're really clingy and all that, right? That's the kind. Then there's the avoidance style, right? Which is more of, you know, in its extreme form, what we would think of as narcissism. That's someone who feels really good about themselves, but everyone else sucks. You know, not literally, but like worthiness of love wise, right? And so they're avoiding opening their heart or letting love in because same thing, it's about protection, you know? Because it's also, I can tell you based even on where the wounds happened, right? Like, so someone who's got an anxious attachment, usually they were a little bit older when they got abandoned or overly criticized or whatever else by those key caretakers than

the person who, you know, is more narcissistic, right? The narcissistic style person who feels, you know, kind of builds himself up, but everyone else is less than, that is like an ongoing early life. You know, usually they were pretty emotionally or physically abused. And then there's the fearful style, right? And that's someone who experienced like a lot of trauma and very early, very, very early it started. So they weren't, you know, picked up when they were neglected basically. And that's someone who we would, you know, diagnose. I mean, it's extreme as borderline, right? So they feel negatively about themselves and everyone else. And they're all over the place

and they love you one minute and are destroying you the next. And they want you, but they push you away. Like those are the most dangerous people to have a relationship with. If they're really in that. But we all have tendencies in all of these. Yeah. I mean, the way you're describing this, it's just like a lot of people watch reality TV shows and start diagnosing people on a tv show about their tendencies or whatever which is i find

you know as someone who's been on the show frustrating and annoying but yes we all it seems like we all have you know like as you talk it's just like i'm sure there's been moments where i've acted a certain way or i've shown a tendency you mentioned the anxious part is something that seems to be developed later in life. For example, like a lot of people I talked to or anything in my own experience, if someone like in 18, 19, 20, their first love, first real relationship and first heartbreak can elicit a lot of pain because I've always kind of joked is the reason why we say things when we experience our first heartbreak. It's just like, I won't survive this.

This is going to kill me. And it feels that way. Because it feels that way because you've never felt it before. So you're just like, I have no I have nothing to like go back that will tell me I'll get over this. That's what I meant by practice. And then, yeah. So the second time you have your heartbreak, you're just this fucking sucks yeah i hurt yeah but you know what i'm i made it last time i'll be fine like by the time i had my third heartbreak i was like

you know there were no tears it was it sucked i was sad but i just had the i had the it was like it'll be okay um how do we like and so many and to that point I think heartbreak is a good thing so how do we go from embracing the heartbreak and learning from it rather than having it um affect us negatively in future relationships where we become this kind of nervous uh person or we avoid relationships we avoid connecting with someone in the future because you know Nicole when we were 19 broke our heart we're 30 and we're still here and it's like I can't get over what Roger did to me but when you and I get that call all the time from people you know on my shows is that why can't I get over you know it's been five years and I still can't get over this heartbreak or this person.

And part of me doesn't even want to be with them anymore, but I can't get over them, right? And so I find time and time again, when that is the case, it's not about the other person. It's who that person represents in your life. So if you're still stuck years later after a heartbreak on that specific person, and I'm not talking about, you know, a version of what you just said where you're just in general scared of heartbreak, but you really can't get over that other that person. Yeah. I mean, that first one's a bugaboo. It took me took me seven years to get over my first love.

Oh, Nick. Oh, Nick. Well, no, but but it's often. Because that person symbolizes someone in your childhood. Always. No. OK. And often not with the first love where your first, you know, but I'm talking about someone who's like, OK, I divorced my husband, you know, four years ago. He's moved on. I, you know, for the most part, I've on, but I still can't get out. Like, I still can't get over it. I still think about him. I still, or a guy will say, you know, she left me, but like, I still can't date or can't like it's four years. And I, you know, I'm not talking about a 17 year old who's had his first heartbreak. Those are the ones that it's about that person it has become the rejecting mother in their little child's mind or the abandoning father or whoever that was and so so it's really valuable when you're stuck in that to kind of think about okay it's not really about that could it not be

about that person but what that person represents, who that person represents. Now, in general, being of, you know, this whole idea of sort of heartbreak in general, it's practice, like I said, of recognizing that you can't avoid the heartbreak. But it's also about embracing it. So what I do with people is like take them through a process because that which you resist always persists, right? And so when we try to avoid and escape our pain after a breakup, let's say, or a heartbreak, it's just going to get worse. Part of it is really allowing yourself to be with the pain and recognize that it won't take you over. And if you've never had practice with that, which most of us haven't because we try to avoid those quote unquote negative feelings, then you kind of clear the

muck a little bit. And then you can start thinking, okay, you know, what worked in this relationship and what didn't work? What can I learn not only from the relationship about what I want more of and or less of moving forward, but what can I also learn about like what were the strengths of this person, but what were some of the things that didn't work? And what were some of the things that I did in the relationship or didn't do in the relationship which led to this heartbreak? Because I don't care whether that person was the biggest you know beast on the planet a relationship is always a dance you're doing together and so even if your part was in letting them walk all over you you had a part to play that's something I learned when I

was cheated on for the first time humbling experience I've talked about that a lot where it was you know first you feel embarrassment and shame and then you're just like how could anyone do that to me it's a lot of ego driven and then it was just more like well okay let's just focus on what I could do different next time which was it was rewarding because it was more like well now I can control something I felt empowered yeah it is empowering because Because it was like, well, you know, and if someone cheats, then that was their decision. I was just more focused on what I could do. But it's it's definitely was it was hard to do. And you know what I see a lot?

And I see this, you know, I've gone through this now with a lot of clients, but also with a lot of my single girlfriends is that, you know, as I'm sort of coaching them, you start off with like a relate, you know, you're figuring out what coaching them, you start off with like a relate, you know, you know, you're figuring out what you want, you're figuring, you're claiming your worth, you're working on your value. And then you meet, you know, in this, usually it's a guy who has a lot of the qualities and everything's working. But then as you're building the relationship, there are all of these issues and problems and it's not quite right. And you have a little bit of a heartbreak and it stings, but then the next relationship is even better. And the next

relationship is even better because if you do that work at the end and you don't just try to get over someone by getting under someone else, you know, and you don't just like jump right back out there to the rebound, but you take some time to heal. And I'll tell you the formula that I use for time. If you take that time to heal, then when you get back out there, you're going to attract in someone who is at the next level up, right? And you're always going to attract someone in who reflects your own worth. So the better you authentically feel about your own worth the better of a quality partner you're going to attract in always what do you mean by that i mean i mean because i you say that i think i mean i've always been a really confident person and yet and i've dated generally some

really nice women they've all been nice but with within that there's been relationship problems there's been moments where i didn't like how they treated me and I'm sure vice versa. But like to me, it always felt like chance or or, you know, you like when people I dated or maybe a couple of months, but like serious relationships. They all had a characteristic of I liked big personalities. But with that, it felt like it came with a price. And that price was when things would get when there would be adversity between us. Criticism tended to be mean and I would get frustrated. But that same kind of spit and fire that, you know,

drew me in initially turned in kind of not so healthy. Not pretty for me, you know, and I, it became contentious and adversarial, which I, again, I'm sure I brought to the table because i can just be annoying um but also you chose women yeah who had big personalities but weren't friends with their shadows what do you mean by that i mean that they hadn't done they weren't self-aware they weren't um they didn't have that you know you can often the people with the biggest personalities have the lowest self-worth you know yeah you attract people

which is once again evidence for my theory that you have an anxious attachment tendency because the anxious attachment person will often be really attracted to the avoidant, slightly narcissistic person and vice versa. Are you calling them all my ex-girlfriends narcissistic? No, they are not narcissists. Not for me. You heard it from Dr. Laura Berman, not me. I would never call someone narcissistic. I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. I would never call anyone narcissistic without evaluating them. We all have narcissistic tendencies, myself included. Evaluating them. We all have narcissistic tendencies myself included But often when you're very big and and by the way, dr. Drew I you know, he's a friend of mine. He told me years ago and I actually filled out his questionnaire He did a study where he gave questionnaires to all these You know people that were on camera or on radio or whatever and he found that every single person who is on camera has narcissistic qualities. Yeah, I guess how could you not to a certain degree?

So, okay, that's fine. I like me some me. Right, right, me too. So, you know, confidence and having a big personality, you know, is great, but you can't, it's one thing if it comes from a place of like, I'm a ham and I love being out there and I feel good about myself and I love the love and I have things to share versus

I need this in order to feel good about myself I need you to mirror me in order for me to feel good about myself relationships right like love me like me yes or this is what i need from you and i i actually learned through my relationships that i didn't fully trust someone's confidence in themselves until i could hear until they could share an insecurity exactly you know it's like i don't really care i don't really care i don't really care about like what you can talk about that you like or i want to know where you're scared and where you feel insecure so who had the really big personality in your house growing up i have 10 siblings a whole big question i i had a great childhood i mean i really i really did i guess me i mean i

was very uh what order what where were you i'm the oldest boy and the second oldest. I was very, like, big personalities. I don't know. No one really. When you say big personality, I wasn't like. Well, because you said I like big personalities. And so. I just, for me. It's your love map.

I've always been a confident person. Right. And I always like to challenge. I like to be, I like balance and I like, I like to give a lot and I like to get a lot in return. Right? So for me, it's always been... And I haven't liked the situations where the problems I've had in the past was finding the big personalities, but I'm not a submissive.

I'm not like, I want someone to tell me what to do. So it was like... There had to be room for you. Yeah. Oh, yes. I need plenty of room. You know, I need tons of room. I like and it went one way where when it came time to me shining it was you know and again they I they loved me and they said nice things and they had their way of showing it but what I just wasn't getting it it felt like I was getting criticism when they felt insecure and it was just like I feel like I'm dealing with your insecurities while you know

and and I felt like instead of ever me feeling like I was shining in the relationship I was constantly trying to justify my actions or attending to their needs yeah so that is someone who is not friends with their shadows what I mean by that is that we all have shadow sides, right? So the light side in this case would be someone who's gregarious and confident and big and loud and fun and, you know, has a big personality, right? The shadow side might be that they can be controlling and critical and not good at sharing the light and, you know, and feel insecure if anybody else is having light on them. And those are the shadow sides that come from their own wounds. And if they don't excavate those wounds and heal them, then those wounds run their lives. And so, so that's what was probably happening with these past women. In addition, the reason I was asking you who was, you know, because we all have a type, right? And your type is someone with a big personality.'s your love map right that's

what scientists call your love map which honestly develops the first seven years of life it's who were it's the type you know my husband likes to joke and it's true but i'm extremely like his first grade teacher who he had a huge crush on oh wow and um fun That's fun to dive into. Yeah. But that's an example of a love map that those first seven years were not, you know, it's not sexual per se, but what's getting implanted is the type of personality, look, style of what attracts us.

I've always found myself to be complicated that way because I love my mom. I've got a great relationship with my mom. I've never been attracted to anyone that... Is like your mom? Like my mom in a way. I've thought about this because a lot of times it seems to be the opposite.

Oh, he's just like your mom. I'm nothing like my husband's mother. My current girlfriend, I don't think he's just like your mom nothing like my husband um my current girlfriend uh i don't think she's necessarily like my mom but she's definitely my current my girl current girlfriend i say that like like next week it'll be different but um she is yeah she doesn't have she's different than all the rest in that she definitely doesn't seek out the light she doesn't have a big personality like you would say like well like my other ones but yet her what i've said like for me it's she has the she has character and what she knows she's stand for and and she makes that very clear so i always

know i always know like what's important to her where she stands that's important and that's where like i'm aware of her insecurities uh and there's a lot of confidence in there but she doesn't yeah she lets i'm the dramatic person in our relationship i've said and how is that what for you that it's great okay amazing i don't find myself to be that dramatic it's a new for me it's fun you know and it's fun to tease we joke about it she's very she she calms me down. And it's the first it's the first relationship I ever had where I felt like I was in a relationship that I could I could trust to ground me when I need. Well, that's super important. And I haven't had that before.

No, you've been the grounder. Constantly. It was just like it's all exhausting because you were grounding everyone else. Yeah. Yeah. So it's fun to be the nut. Yeah, that is fun. I'm the nut in my relationship. Yeah. I were grounding everyone else. Yeah. Yeah. So it's fun to be the nut. Yeah. That is fun.

I'm the nut in my relationship too. I kind of enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. So, so she has, she's not necessarily a big, you know,

give me the spotlight personality, but she has, um, she's empowered. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

so it's, it's been great so far, but like with my, I think now that you asked me i'm like thinking about it because like my dad doesn't have i guess that big of a personality either i don't know where i i i got that i don't know but uh you know my parents are very loving environment i'm sure they had their issues but they never fought in front i never saw them fight god bless them for that truly i don't never i've never experienced them fight. God bless them for that. Truly, I've never experienced them fight.

And they had their problems. I remember situations that my parents were dealing with, but never them. They were always a united front, always. That's great. And rare. That's the one thing I would, as a kid, the cardinal said,

it wasn't lying. It wasn't, uh, stealing, you know, or, you know, or whatever, or causing trouble. It was, uh, if we got caught pinning our parents against each other, that would, that's the Cardinal sin. If mom told you, no, I mean, I don't know, ground, we get grounded, but that would, that was the, told you, no. And you went around her to dad to try to get a yes, my kids have tried that too. I'd probably get grounded for an entire summer.

Wow. I just remember that being a real big deal. That's a really good model for you growing up. That's a really good message. Because I always say that to parents, that the best thing you can do for your kids is give them a model of what a loving committed relationship you your relationship should actually be more important than your children because that's the foundation for the family

yeah kids I remember asking my parents like do you do you love me like how much do you love me do you love me more than dad it was like it was different but also kind of like yeah we love you more and it was just different it was like what we have is not comparable and what we won't ever let is you come between that and it was uh i always kind of respected that about my parents but and i've learned that that was rare as i've gotten older but i don't know necessarily how i turned into me That's a good area of inquiry for you because it only adds to your, you know, the more that we can understand how we developed our worthiness of love, our confidence in love, what attracts us in love, what we want out of love, where we struggle in love, the more we can understand how that evolved, the more we, you know, the more we can heal and the more we can understand how that evolved the more we you know the more we can

heal and the better we can love and the more we attract people in who um you know match that yeah i don't know i'm just thinking about myself now um yeah so in terms of any anything more to add on trying to avoid falling for the right person over the wrong person i'm sorry over and over like you know i guess you know i kind of mentioned that but how do we police ourselves how do we there are a lot of ways we hate taking advice from our friends right we you know we how do we see it because sometimes you know we get in these relationships and then you're like you got to almost have to like you know give it a shot date for a few months but how do we see those red flags sooner than we would in the past and then how do we address it and what's the difference between

say a red flag and an actual problem yeah because like not all red flags the red flags are just like no things that might come up from the past and then you have to address them about it right and you explore it but if you have a pattern where you are repeatedly getting into relationships with cheaters or with, you know, people who are hypercritical or people who abandon you or people who can't commit or people, whatever, you know, if there's a pattern there, then what I like to recommend is that you completely stop dating for a while and you really do like an emotional reset and do some of that internal work that I was talking about earlier. If it's about recognizing, you know, and so if you just tend to always go for the bad

boy, usually I find that is because you get grossed out. You want intellectually someone who isn't a bad boy. But once you are with the guy who treats you well, you get grossed out because he's so into me, something must be wrong with him. Like, you know, because I don't deserve that is what it fundamentally comes down to. Interesting. So almost always I find, especially with women who are repeatedly going for the bad guy, even though they don't want to, it's because on some level they got the story, adopted that, internalized that that's that that that's really what they deserve and they get grossed out with the person that treats them well. That's another scenario. But in general, I think if you really want to change your type, stop dating your type. This is the thing that a lot of people don't realize, that those butterflies you feel where you, if you're someone who repeatedly dates people that aren't good for you, the next

person you go out on a date with and you feel like you've known them all your life and they're so familiar and you have butterflies, run. Okay? Do not go on a second date with them because that is your system's warning symbol. So butterflies are a warning. It's a warning. Always? Often. It's a fear.

You know, it could be like, oh, shit shit i'm really into this person and i'm scared i'm gonna get hurt butterflies this is actually encouraging for me well i do you should feel when you find the one you should feel like you're peaceful boring no that's someone who's used to drama peaceful is not boring i like that because i'll say why i like that because i've i've joked as i've gotten older you know you're young you can feel butterflies your excitement you just don't you know you don't know right and then maybe that other person who reminds you that it's like and you're right you find that if you have heartbreak i think a lot of us i know i did and i think a lot of people who listen to this podcast do it where you're trying to find that again yeah and so you you want you want what you it's like you

want to make it right you want yes and that's what I you know the my first relationship was like my you know I'll blame my parents their their greatness was my problem because I was like you know I'll fight for this I'll make it right you You know, I'll figure it all out. But as I've gotten older, I've gotten worried about I'm never going to fall in love again. I think if I'm not on TV in a controlled environment where it's like this pressure because I don't remember the last time I felt butterflies. Right. We're like, I don't know. I don't get excited. I don't like because what is that?

You know, I had a more kind of thoughtful level-headed approach to dating it was just like okay we'll see yeah you know i it would hurt it would be hard for me to get excited because to me it was just like i don't know i i before i it was the blissful ignorance of like well i'm not now you're more cautious and now i'm more cautious and i i didn't i always like was i didn't like being called cynical just because I decided not to be like oh my god I had like a nice time and I got butterflies but then it was a little nerve-wracking because you want to feel you know what is it going to tell me and for me in my current relationship it took me several months to be okay with I'm ready to invest in this relationship.

Yeah, because you didn't have butterflies. Yeah, it was like a peaceful. But you're attracted to her. Oh, yeah. And you have passion with her. I mean, I like that you called peaceful because it was. It was always fucking peaceful. It was like I've never.

And if you're used to like chaos in your relationships, peaceful feels uncomfortable and like something's off. And we also have this story that love is supposed to, you know, because what we see in the movies and everything that and on The Bachelor, that love is supposed to be, you know, this like, like that, like, you know, and it is sometimes and it can be. But real love that lasts, even if you have that in the beginning, that's the infatuation stage. You know, real lasting love is the love that is in what scientists call the attachment stage. It's a sweeter, softer, peaceful, intimate, emotionally connected, deep love where, you know, what love really is in its purest form is I'm taking you emotionally as part of me. So to hurt you would be like hurting me, you know, and vice versa, that we, you know, that we're connected in that way. And so that's not a dangerous,

am I going to get you to stay with me? Can I keep you kind of excitement, right? That's a peaceful love. So on the date with the guy who you have the hots for and you feel nervous, excitement, that's a definite red flag that he's just like you're especially if that's your tendency you know sign the therapist call that repetition compulsion where you repeatedly date and go get together with the same mistake again and again it's an unconscious wish

what's interesting about that is that that's what we've been told to look for we've been told to look for the spark yeah the intangible the feeling and yet we've been looking for our next toxic relationship yes yes well yeah well you want to feel like oh my god you're hot i'm attracted to you you're interesting you're kind you're fun you have the qualities you know that i'm looking for but yeah the butterflies and so if you tend to do that, date people who are not your type and go your typical type and go on three, four or five dates with them before you decide. Well, it took me a while to miss my girlfriend, my current girlfriend. At first, you know, you'd hang out and be like, yeah, I don't know. Nice time.

I don't know. Sure. And then I was like, yeah, let's hang out again. Yeah. But there's always like, I don't know if I miss you. I don't know you. Yeah. But when was like, yeah, let's hang out again. Yeah. But there's always like, I don't know if I miss you. I don't know you. Yeah. But when we do hang out,

I have a lovely time. Well, the missing before with those other women was not really missing them per se, because you didn't know them any better. I like to call it toxic stimulation. Yes, it was. It was missing.

Like it was the agitation and anxiety of, is this going to work? Are they going to say yes? Am I going to see them again? You know, it was, it's part of that insecure attachment. Is that the same, similar to, like I've referred to it as like toxic stimulation where we, you know, we're trying to fill a void maybe in our own life where why we, like it's just something to do.

Like why do we keep out of boredom why don't we keep why don't we leave the these toxic relationships that you know we're we're hooked we're not even happy no we're just but yet what is it and I've wondered if is it us trying to make our egos feel special because like the girl who or the guy who keeps going because what if what if they will date me what if it happens then i'm special then i'm i'm better than all the other people they said no to or at least that's part of it but there's something even further underneath that is that i've been abandoned you know so many times right and if i can convince this person to love me then I can finally believe that I'm worthy of love yeah because and

you know or I can finally make it right that all those other people hurt me you know I can prove to myself that it's not really me you know it was them if I can do this crazy thing yes that will make everything else and then we stay stuck in these really unhappy relationships for that. And also, you know, I always say there's this tipping point where, you know, the pain of being in the relationship has to be greater than your fear of leaving it. And once the pain of being in the relationship is more than your fear of what's on the other side, you know, being single, leaving that person or whatever, then you'll leave. That makes a lot of sense.

I've said that before, but how I feel like sometimes that's one of those things that's harder in practice because how do we avoid that lasting a whole year before we get the courage to do it? Like what, how do we avoid a relationship where we're literally miserable for a year, but we haven't decided that it's greater than the unknown because we don't know the unknown like you know does that make sense like well I mean it it really does if if uninterrupted it eventually gets there you

know I've watched and worked and even with some of my friends I've seen them be in relationships for years where you know there are ups and downs it's not all bad all the time right so they can kind of justify it in their own minds but they really know but they don't really want to get back out there they've invested i mean this is a big mistake that women make i've invested you know i'm now in my early 30s i've invested there for six years like i don't want to start over and i don't want you know know, and, and love finding the love that you want and deserve requires extreme bravery. I mean, extreme emotional bravery to move beyond, to be willing to be alone, you know, because until you're totally whole alone, you're never, you know, no one else ever

completes you. Right. I hate that line from that Jerry Maguire movie where he says, you complete me. Because you're your whole delicious cake. Someone else is like icing, you know, but you're still a whole delicious cake on your own, right? So when we can get really whole and complete on our own, that's when we can start to attract in someone who is our icing rather than that we're dependent on to complete us or we're not OK if they're not with us. And sometimes if you've really been stuck in a relationship like that and you just can't find your way out, that's where it's important to get support to work on those self-worth issues and those stories you've been telling yourself about your worth that keep you stuck being treated like crap. Well, hopefully we can all work on those. You can work on them. It's not, I mean, it's scary to think about, but that's what I do.

You know, that's my bread and butter. I do that all day long. No, it's fascinating stuff. And it's, it's, it's, what's fascinating is it seems like it's something we'll always be dealing with as a society when it comes to relationships. Like we're always, I mean, it's why you're why i'm here why you're here i'll tell you that honestly i tell you with a hundred i'm 100 sure of this that when we are having a relationship with someone else we are really having a relationship with ourselves through that person and so the better you can

create a relationship with yourself the more authentic the better you can create a relationship with yourself, the more authentic, the more you can deal with your own shadows, the more you can love yourself fully and completely, not in a narcissistic way, but in an honest way, you know, the more whole you can become in that way, the better your relationship is. And that's a lifelong proposition. I mean, I've been married for 17 years and I'm still, we're still evolving and working on it. You know, it's, it's, it's part of the fun. You talk a lot about sexual wellness. Yes, that's a big one for me. Do you have, do you evaluate someone's sexual wellness? I do a lot of sex therapy. I do a lot of sex education. I help people when they have sexual issues like,

you know, low desire or erectile dysfunction, stuff like that. But I also do a ton of couples therapy, you know, from infidelity to spicing it up to, you know, trauma, obviously, and also helping people really build better love and sex life speaking of which i can i give you want me to give you a present yeah this may be your valentine's day gift for your girlfriend amazing sex toys i'm so jealous right now i'll send you one too okay you ready i am you're probably a guy that likes the remote, I'm assuming. What do you mean by the remote? Do you like controlling the remote?

Like in general? Yeah, like in the TV. Do I need to feel empowered? This isn't a psychological question. Sure, I don't know. I mean, we both have access to the remote. So these are the underwear. Oh my God, it's underwear.

Those go in the crotch of the underwear, that little bullet. Okay. And then this is your remote. Oh, wow. Feels fun. Is it vibrating? Yeah. It works up to 12 feet away.

So this goes in the crotch of the panties. This is the best. And then you can zap her. Oh boy, that's... Whenever you want, on and off, from from 12 feet away are these comfortable for women very comfortable they're modeled after hanky pankys which are some of my favorite underwear so you in theory could wear this all day well yeah but you also you could wear it all day you're being optimistic but like a lot of people you know now you wouldn't so it fits in here yeah and you

could and you could go you could put it in any underwear, but those underwear have like a slit for them. And then you can. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't put these on to start your day and then wonder, you know, if you're within 12 feet. You might. But like, I like to tell couples, you know, when they're going, you know, for Thanksgiving

at their horrible in-laws house, you can wear them. I like that. Or, you know, a boring cocktail party or something or just around the house. That's fun. Yeah. Look at them vibrating. I love it. Look at them shaking.

Look at them shaking. That was not what I thought was going to happen. So those are from, yeah, I have a line of toys that I developed for women and that's sort of intended to really spice things up and I like some playfulness between the two of you I like the idea of creating playfulness and boring situation yeah

it's really fun because I also can see where this could get yeah if abused yes great power comes great responsibility exactly exactly I feel like this has to start with her saying let's do this and then giving him the remote and in a situation as a police well it's like a picture of a guy just being really really obnoxious i don't know it depends on how open yeah it depends how open she

is i guess yeah i don't know i just just... All day long? Well, we're not talking about all day long. It seems like a really... Like, what are you going to do on Valentine's Day? Do you have any plans? Are you going to make a dinner at home? Are you going to... I mean, you can't really go out in LA. Yeah, COVID, you know?

Yeah, so you're going to... So you should order a really nice dinner, set a beautiful table. I like to make dinner. Okay, make dinner, set a beautiful table. I like to make dinner. Okay, make dinner, set a beautiful table, give her the underwear to put on, and then zap her around the house for a few hours. Okay. And then do it.

That's your Valentine's Day. There, Valentine's Day is done. So sex toys obviously are a great way to spice up a relationship. Yeah. But before I guess we introduce sex toys but what are some common uh general common general that any couple could face in terms of staleness or misunderstanding i find there to be a lot of stereotypes especially stereotypes that women have of men when it comes to their sexual proud prowess or you know a lot of like guys always supposed to climax in sex and if he doesn't

climax it must have something to do with the women and then both men and women get very defensive in that situation because it's like no it's not you it's me you know it's all very complicated uh is that something that you find to be the case? And how can we avoid those misunderstandings when it comes to dating and relationships? Yeah, it's something that people, I mean, part of the reason I do this work is because for whatever reason,

a variety of reasons, I grew up just in a house where it was talked about normal, comfortable. So it's really easy for me to talk about. But most people didn't grow up that way aren't comfortable talking about this stuff the only sex conversation I had with my parents is to not right that's that's pretty half that's pretty typical for most people and so how do you you know so then when they're in a sexual situation where there are some you know everyone has little road bumps you you know, no matter how

functional you are, you're going to have a period where, you know, things aren't working as they could or should, or there's a disconnect. And the most important, I mean, there's an art to talking about it, but the most important thing is the communication. So you don't want to, if there are issues or concerns or questions, you know, it's really helpful not to bring it up in the middle of the sexual scenario. You also don't want to, like, introduce something new in the middle of the sexual scenario. So afterwards or, you know, a day or two before that next sexual scenario, you say, you know, I like to like when they when they were we, my husband was the coach, you know, the American Youth Soccer Organization. And he used to coach the kids for years. And when they would train the coaches field, you give them five compliments first

for every quote unquote criticism or feedback you give them. And so I think the same is true. It doesn't have to be five, but in your relationships in general and certainly around sex. So you say, gosh, you know, last weekend or yesterday, whenever that was, was so amazing. And I love being with you and I love your body and I love our sex life. And you frame it in the positive. What I, you know, so you don't say, but it's, you know, I really didn't like it when you touched me here. You say what I would really, you know, what really turns me on or what would really turn me on is this. And when there are issues like, you know, he can't reach climax or something like that, once again, it's

not about saying in the moment, like rolling over and being angry and being, you know, saying what's wrong with you and taking it all personally. That is just going to make it worse. Because the one thing we know about sexual response is that building anxiety about the problem with sexual response is going to build problems with the sexual response, right? The one way to guarantee a guy is going to have early or premature ejaculation or erectile dysfunction is if he's worrying about that, right? Oh, yeah. And so if now it feels all loaded and she's going to take it all personally and be all angry if he can't perform, then I guarantee you he ain't going to perform because now he's not only worried about not performing, he's worried about what she's going to feel and it's horrible. So

it's really important to keep it as positive as possible. And if you are the person on the other side of this, who's worried that he's not into you because he can't reach orgasm or whatever, you stay really sweet about it, really supportive. And then outside, away from the sexual scenario, you say, listen, you say, listen, you know, I just wanted to check in with you about that. You know, is there anything I could do more of or less of that would support you? What do you think that was about? And if you really are struggling, you can go back to what we were talking about earlier, where, you know, I have a story. I have a story that it's about me. Like maybe you're not attracted to me. And I just wanted to check that out with you because, you know, it's definitely a story that goes through my mind.

Right. Then she's not saying, you know, she's claiming her own insecurity. And then you can have a real conversation about it. Oh, before we play our fun little game and then let you go. I feel like we talk about all this stuff for hours. We're in a pandemic covid uh what are you seeing out there in relationships that it's creating problems obviously a lot of problems how can we try to avoid some of these uh problems i mean within the limitations that we have in the world that we're in right now. But yeah, I mean, how do we, you know, there's a spicing it up of the mundaneness, the routine, you know.

Put on your remote control panties. Put the remote control panties on. But it's also, I noticed, like the thing I'm seeing the most with this, two key things. One is that before this, so many relationships were ships passing in the night. You know, so busy, so much going on, rushing off to work in the morning, you know, coming home, dealing with kids, dealing with life, dealing with work, whatever it was, then falling into bed, right? And if there were issues in the relationship, you weren't really addressing them. You were just too busy.

And you could kind of put it on the back burner and now because you're stuck at home right you're not only stuck at home but you're with that person 24 7 and all those things you were sweeping under the rug come crawling out and that's difficult right because a lot of people's relationship issues are on fire right now. But once again, that's an opportunity. Like I think if you are one of those couples who has some money, I know a lot of people are struggling financially, that you would have otherwise spent on travel or experiences or dinners out, spend it on a little bit of couples therapy, which every couples therapist

I know is working remotely now. And you can work on those things that you've been avoiding all of that time. The other thing I see happening is just too much fricking togetherness. You know, like you need your own space. And I've even worked with couples who are like in a one room, you know, New York City in a small apartment. And they've hung up a blanket from the ceiling just to like take that time, each of them taking that time away for a couple of hours, even if you can't leave the freaking house. I mean, if you can, that's even better just to like be by yourselves because that's one of the ways that relationships stay rich also is that you both have your own lives and you're coming together and you each come back to each other with things that you've experienced and seen and learned you know and that's hard to do during

a time like this and then if you add in the anxiety and the fear and everything else gets tough yeah what what would you what's a tip that you could give a couple because i feel like this happens one person says hey i wonder if we should maybe get some couples therapy the other person's like no thanks no thanks yeah how what do you have any advice for that because i feel like it happens it happens a lot you say you claim it so let's say um you want to get some couples therapy because you feel like every time you try to talk about something important it turns into an argument okay that's an easy one you you say to your partner listen you know I was thinking that you know that argument we had the other night I love

you so much and I love our life together so much and I feel like I you it, I really need some help learning how to communicate together in a way that will really, you know, succeed and that won't lead to an argument every time. And I know I have a huge part to play in that. So I found this amazing person who works remotely and it would mean so much to me if you would just come to like three or four sessions and see what you think, because obviously I need you in order to work this through. And then if that's a good therapist and if your partner is, you know, hesitant, definitely talk to the therapist first and try to find one that you think your part will resonate with your partner. And then I guarantee, I mean, I, I do this all the time that the hesitant partner comes in and within a two, sessions, they're in. What happens if they refuse to go?

If they refuse to go, that's really important information for you. Because that is someone who isn't willing to really, who isn't friends with their shadows. They're too scared to really face them and deal with them. They're avoiding anything like that. to really face them and deal with them. They're avoiding anything like that. Or, and or, they aren't really interested in building better communication. And if they're unwilling to go, you know, it's one thing if they're unwilling to go to therapy because you want to go to therapy, even though everything's great and you just think it would be better if you went to therapy, right? But if you're, you know, there are issues in the relationship and they're not willing to address

them, to me, that's the most important quality you need in a partner. I don't care about anything else on your list. Every single one of us should be looking for a partner who is open to learning, open to growing, open to feedback, and open to working on the relationship. Because otherwise, I guarantee you, you won't survive. That's a great way to end that discussion. Before we let you go, we always like to play a game with our guests and we uh came up with this very fun silly game it's really goofy will you

it's it's called the the worst thing to hear from okay there's really no right or wrong answer all right let's see what happens we'll we will both respond to what's the worst thing we think we could hear from a person in a certain situation okay so this is like stream of consciousness we're talking about yeah impulsive answers all right what's the first question very simple what's the worst thing to hear from someone on a first date it wouldn't even be what i heard the worst thing to see is if they were like an asshole excuse my language can I say that an asshole to the waiter or to the like you know that's like the worst thing for that in terms of for me personally if they said I'm not attracted to you that would be the worst wow right off the bat did you just end the date there yes I'm not attracted to you

or they would say it more subtly like you know you're a little bigger than a lot of the women I date or you're a little shorter or whatever you know amen to that one I would uh I would answer it as uh you're weird really oh I take that as a compliment well it just depends yeah I think it you're weird is something a lot of women say to men when they get uncomfortable and i think it puts a lot of men on the defensive because it's just like all of a sudden you're just like what do you mean like it's like i agree like i like saying i'm weird i also like being around my friends or the people i'm close to me that know me so when when they might say you're weird i don't get offensive but if it's

on a first date and you immediately start being like and no guy wants to be called thought of as creepy no weird is like okay and so like that makes sense oh you're it's kind of weird i mean you're just like wait and why would i say that on a first date like what's wrong with her i don't know but i do find like oh not and i it's not even i'm not saying i'm not saying a lot of women said to me but i've seen it whether it's my guy friends or but like yeah we like you that's weird like and it's it's usually and i've also noticed that it's a thing women say yeah it's like oh they just oh it's weird and then yeah oh i don't mean it like that what's the worst thing your least favorite aunt at Thanksgiving could say?

I can tell you what my least, I didn't have an aunt, but my least favorite uncle would always. Oh, God. There we go. Always come up to me. It didn't matter whether I was below my ideal weight or above it. He would come up to me, give me a big hug, and start pinching all, you know, my back and my side. Oh, you're feeling a little a little heavy you're a little meat there laura you know he that he would comment on my weight every time

yeah yeah that's weird oh weird that's weird that is weird uh i didn't really have a least favorite aunt well my always my my least favorite is like the aunt you don't really know who asks who who who treats you like a best friend. I don't even. What's the worst thing you can hear from someone you're trying to define the relationship with? Well. Go ahead. Let's be friends. Yeah, let's be friends.

I. Well, see, I'm more of the you know you know me I would I think clarity is always great so if you're trying to define the relationship but you don't get the answer you don't want I don't think that's the worst thing I think the worst thing you can hear from some of you're trying to the relationship with is vagueness yeah so I'm sort of like I mean I love everything about you and I definitely want to keep you around. And I still can we can we go see movies and like I have this dinner plan, but I definitely don't. I'm not ready for a relationship to me.

That's the worst, because the person who wants to defend the relationship, they're just like, I'm going to I'm going to make this into a positive. What you just said, I'm going to. Why are you judging my life, Nick? I'm going to turn what you said into a positive. And yeah, so to me, I think that's the worst thing you could hear. But that's just me. And you remind me of something that I really want to say for women who are looking for a monogamous relationship.

If you are looking for a monogamous relationship and you really want that, do not have sex with that guy until you are clear that both of you are looking for that and you think that could work with each other and neither one of you plan to date anyone else, at least for the foreseeable future. So you don't have to be ready to like call yourself boyfriend and girlfriend. You don't have to be ready to like call yourself boyfriend and girlfriend. You don't have to be walking down the aisle.

But don't have freaking sex with him until, and I don't mean like holding it back like a manipulative tool. I mean, your sexuality is a gift, not only the first time, but every time you choose to share it with someone. And if you're looking for a monogamous relationship, make sure that the person you share that with deserves it and is worthy of it and you're going to get rid of all the jerks that you know are just looking for sex and pretending they want a monogamous relationship i think that's great question though yes what

happens in a say a sex positive woman who just wants a little sex she's not necessarily thinking about she and she's like i'm open to dating. I want to I want to find a boyfriend. Ideally, I want a monogamous relationship. But it's Saturday night. It's a trap. And I use a toy for God's sake, because listen. So there's no situation. No, I'll tell you why.

Because what this sucks, because I wish we could have casual sex as easily as guys can. Sucks because I wish we could have casual sex as easily as guys can. But chemically, when a woman has good sex, especially an orgasm, her body gets washed in oxytocin, which is the chemical of attachment that breastfeeding mothers release to bond with their baby. So you go into the bar, you see this hot guy who's a total idiot. And you're like, I'm just looking to get laid. And I have no interest in this guy. And you go home and you have great sex with him. And then the next day you feel like crap because he left without asking for your number. And, you know, I have, we cannot,

casual sex just doesn't work the same way with us. Guys have more testosterone and it kind of compensates for the oxytocin effect there's also some evolutionary dna reasons for it all but the bottom line is it's much harder for us i wish it wasn't because i i hear you but you're better off playing with your toys and your fantasy life than having sex with a stranger who you have no interest in so if you're a guy and you're the nicest guy in the world per se but you're putting out good sex you're kind of fucking some people up without even trying you're saying so as a guys maybe yeah don't do that don't do that i feel so seen so you're out on a date. Date number two.

Yeah. And you have a few drinks. Yeah. And she's like, I want to have a little sex. Yeah. And the guy's like, cool. Right. And he tries his best to have the good sex.

He gives the good sex. Yeah. But that's a risk. That's a risk. And even if the guy, and she's like, it's totally cool. This doesn't mean anything. Let's have some fun, but he needs to know that he knows he's good at sex.

He should. Oh, okay. You have a serious weapon there if you're good at sex. And what I would say to women is like on the second date, you know, when you've made out a little bit or whatever, you just say,

look, I just want you to know, you know, I'm really attracted to you. I'm really enjoying getting to know you, but I just need you to know about you know, I'm really attracted to you. I'm really enjoying getting to know you. But I just need you to know about me that I don't have sex with anyone until I'm sure that I don't really want to date anyone else for the foreseeable future. And the other person is too.

And that doesn't mean, you know, we're making some major commitment. But, you know, I'm not interested in sex until I get to that point. And I don't know if we'll get there, but I just wanted to let you know that that's where I stand would you say that sex in the fantasy suite is probably not the best idea with multiple people if you're looking to get engaged really I was feeling so bad for those for because every single one of them you know was getting like oxytocin I mean oxytocin it doesn mean, oxytocin. It doesn't. And then the whole competitive thing. It doesn't happen as much as people think. And then the whole competitive thing

among the women or the men. Like that always, I mean, now it's better because I've been around since the beginning of The Bachelor. But in the beginning of The Bachelor days, I mean, let's just be honest, some of The Bachelors were not that fantastic. I'm sorry, but they, you know, quality's just be honest. Some of the bachelors were not that fantastic. I'm sorry. But quality has gotten significantly better.

And I remember being so fascinated because it was a different scene. If you look at the first seasons of The Bachelor, the women would come in, and a lot of them weren't even that into the guy. But as soon as they saw that all the other women were into them, it's like the competition among the women made the guy attractive and that's and it's not even about the guy it's about competing with the other women so you make good tv yeah it's good tv but it's not a model for love the worst are you trying to say that the bachelor is not a model for love

i wouldn't go that far i'll get well but maybe it's a model for love but it's certainly not the model well said i feel like i've said that before um the worst thing you could hear from the person officiating your wedding person officiating your wedding? I can tell you what my favorite professor in my human sexuality graduate program who came to my wedding celebration. No, I told him I had just gotten engaged and he was going to, he came to my wedding, but he said to me, his response to me when I told him I was getting married and he was right because I was marrying my ex-husband is I think everybody needs to get married at least once to figure out what they really want out of love that's what he said to me basically on my wedding day did you and

was that bad or it was bad at the time I was pissed I I was like that, you know, but he was right. And when he came to my final wedding, the one with my 17 year husband, I, you know, I laughed with him and told him about that. He didn't even really remember saying it, but he remembered feeling it. So it was funny. I would think the worst thing someone could say to me, I guess, is who was officiating my wedding would just be no, no. No, won't do it. Not going to support this relationship. Nah.

Final question. The worst thing you can hear from the sales associate at a sex shop describing their new toy you're about to purchase. Boy, I can't think of anything other than, no, nothing. I mean, I can think of qualities. anything other than um no nothing i mean i can think of qualities i don't you you don't want to um we know you want to make sure it's phthalate free and all that stuff so if they're giving you a product that's unhealthy but otherwise i mean you're asking the wrong person that question because nothing's off i would say as long as it's consensual nothing's off limits here you need to

return this in three days quick audible on the game or quick quick would you rather would you rather have a gray hair in your food or on your sex toy a pube on your sex toy or a pube in your food yeah i don't want either i'd be but at least yeah you'd rather have a pube in your sex toy that's a good question 100 yeah now i think i'd rather have in my food if the pube was in my food if the pube was in my food and I hadn't eaten any yet then that's fine but if I had eaten half of it and then find the pube or the pube is in like your teeth yeah that's bad then send me home I can I can wrap my head around how a pube got on a sex toy I can't wrap my head around how pube got in my food yeah that is hard to imagine yeah a pubing your food would not be good what were you doing before you know did you not wash your hands when what did you rub the squash

there i'm so confused like too many questions this is like a setup for a bigger question we can close on this but what's the worst thing you could hear from your partner when trying to introduce a new sex toy and i asked this specifically because i think there's a lot of men out there who might feel emasculated yes from that question and what's a healthy way to try to to do that I always you know try to let my male audience know that it's it's okay to know that there's often takes more than one tool to complete a task oh yes but what do you find to you know with some of your clients who yeah who might feel emasculated what some of the ways well I try to help them understand I did a huge national study on what the most sexually satisfied women have in common.

And it wasn't the number of orgasms they have, although orgasms are great when they happened. It was the emotional closeness and connection they felt to the person they were having sex with. That was the number one by far predictor of their sexual satisfaction. Now, a toy is a tool. It does not cuddle you. It does not make you feel emotionally close. It does not have a personality. It cannot compete with you. And so it's just a tool. It cannot replace you. It cannot deliver her the sexual pleasure that you can, It cannot replace you. It cannot deliver her the sexual pleasure that you can, because in order to create the maximum sexual pleasure, it's that connection and emotional intimacy she feels with you, which an inanimate object for 99.9% of people is incapable of giving, unless you have a fetish for inanimate objects. But that's a different show. That's another day.

That's another day. That's another day. Well, this has all been a lot of fun and very informative. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us. You do have a podcast coming out or it should be out. It should be out. It's called The Language of Love. It's on all the platforms, but you can also go to dr laura burman.com uh and it's right there on the home page but also if you go to dr laura burman.com backslash language of love you'll see how to link to it how to subscribe to it but also there's a

way to ask voicemail questions and email questions because the podcast is me answering your questions about sex and love and relationships well be sure to check that out and like as dr uh laura off uh also said dr laura because there's a lot of things on our website that she can help you out with so be sure to check that out if you have any questions or challenges in your relationships that you might need some help uh with uh dr. Laura Berman is there to help. Thanks so much. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com. Cast with a K, five stars, all that fun stuff. We will see you back. Happy Valentine's Day.