The Viall Files - E237 The Bachelor Recap With Natasha Parker

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

On today’s Bachelor Recap we are joined by Natasha Parker. Before we get to the recap we take time in the first half of the show to discuss the issues surrounding Bachelor Nation over the last week after  the conversation that Chris Harrison had with Rachel Lindsey and why it is important to keep learning about what we may not know.  After that Nick and Natasha jump into the recap discussing their thoughts on Heather’s interactions with the other women, Abigail’s exit, and even some Bachelorette predictions. It is a supersized episode not to miss today.   “ …it has provoked conversation between people, and is continuing to provoke conversation in regards to race…” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Proper: http://www.getproper.com use promo code VIALL for 10% off your first order.  Each & Every: http://www.eachandevery.com/VIALL use code VIALL 30% off your first purchase.  Best Fiends: Download Best Fiends FREE today on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Headspace: http://www.headspace.com/VIALL  for a  FREE ONE-MONTH TRIAL with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @natashaparker See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of The Vafals. I am your host, Nick, joined by Chrissy and Allie and a man of the ladies of the social syndicate. I hope you guys had a great weekend. Well, there's a lot going on, obviously, in the world and specifically Bachelor World, as you guys know. It's some unfortunate things going on. And with that said, we do spend some time in the beginning of this episode talking about the conversation that Chris had with Rachel and why it wasn't okay and why it was unfortunate. My friend Natasha Parker, who is a part of Bachelor Nation, joins us to recap the episode. I met Natasha a few months ago. Awesome woman, really interesting. One of those few people you meet and you're just like, why did you go on this show?

You're like, oh, you know, she's very captivating. You're so awesome. Yeah, you know. You're so awesome. Well, Nick, you're awesome and you went on that show. Whatever. But like sometimes you're just like, wasn't it beneath you? You know, she's just a really cool person.

Anywho, Natasha is someone I've gotten to know. And obviously when these situations were race, racism and conversation about ignorance come into play, you know, I do reach out to my friends who are black and people of color to, you know, make sure I'm educating myself and understand. Rachel's obviously been a huge sounding board and ally and friend to myself. And I'm thankful for that uh and so natasha uh was so gracious with her time and kind of come on she's a ton of thought and just great perspectives on recapping but we do spend some time on the top of the show to talk about it i hope that uh you guys enjoy the listen and find it uh informative but we thought it was important we we spend some time on it so So, yeah, anything else to add?

We have a great Ask Nick episode that dropped earlier today or last night, and on Wednesday, or tomorrow rather, depending on when you're listening, we have Chris Medina, who is a psychic, and we talk about the medium and psychic industry, of which I am a skeptic and Chris was kind enough to join us and have a conversation about, you know, the skeptics, the criticism, just the industry itself. It was a ton of fun. I really enjoyed our time. And I, and if you are interested in anything about being a psychic or readings or telling the future or mediums,

I think you'll find that episode to be a ton of fun. All right, well, let's get into it. Again, thanks so much, Natasha, for taking the time. It's always in these situations where I know like Rachel, and Rachel has mentioned how tired and exhausted she is talking to Natasha the same way. We thank her for her time. And without further ado, Natasha Parker and Bachelor Recaps. Natasha, thank you so much for joining us.

You are welcome, Nick. Happy Valentine's Day, by the way. Oh, thank you. I was alone on Valentine's Day with my little pup. Did you celebrate yourself? Which is great. Well, I did. An ex-boyfriend texted me

because it's also his birthday on Valentine's Day. So he texted me, happy Valentine's Day because I was not going to text him for his birthday. Let me tell you. But I had to, right? I don't, you know, it's funny. I had this thought yesterday. I actually put it on my stories

and the audio sounded crappy. So I had to delete it. And I thought to myself, is there a worst, worst birthday to have for men than Valentine's day? Well, probably not. He's a lover.

So he, he definitely, I'm sure, I don't know what he was doing, but I'm sure he got a lot of love last night or yesterday. Okay. But this gentleman from a online dating app ended up calling me and we had a very pleasant dinner talk so it was like a zoom date kind of dinner no it wasn't zoom it was just

over the phone he just was like oh i'm gonna i'll call you this weekend he said that like on wednesday so he hadn't called yet and then like at eight o'clock he called and I was just finishing dinner. He was just cooking dinner. It was cute. It was cute. All right. Well, is there going to be a second date or a second phone call? Yeah, there'll be a second phone call. All right. Good for you. Nicely done. We'll see. Thank you. Thank you for coming on. How are you doing? I'm assuming it's been a little nutty in Bachelor, well, it has been a little nutty in Bachelor world or in the world in general,

and it's been a little hectic. How are you? Thank you for taking the time to come on here. Yeah, it's been good, but also, yes, hectic. It's been a lot of energy since wednesday my phone has not stopped going off since everything has happened uh with chris harrison and all the things and then more things are happening as we know um so yeah it's been hectic but there's a lot of support out there as well since we did did clickbait on clickbait, we did our own specific isolated episode for this

matter. And it's been a lot of support. Of course, a lot of craziness to always damned if you do, damned if you don't, you know, I always tell that to you. I always say that to you. But I'm, I'm okay. I am, I am, I am okay. I'm glad that Chris made his, I guess, second statement

and let everyone know that he's taking a step away. I am happy about that. Okay. Well, yeah, I feel like it's the right thing right now. I mean, I guess, you know, in these times, I think a lot of people want to do the right thing. Um, and I know we've talked offline and I know we wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about what happened before we get into the actual recap. Um, and I guess, you know, you know, you mentioned like you think

it's the right thing. Um, what has this been like in general in terms of conversations you've had with people like me? I'm assuming you have had other conversations about racism, ignorance, you know, things like that that are going on in the world and in Bachelor Nation? If anything, if anything that this, I mean, yes, it is unfortunate that it happened, but when you look at the flip side, it has provoked conversation between people and continuing to provoke conversation between people in regards to race. Amongst the Black community, people talk about race all the time. It's a topic of conversation that we talk about all the time because it's something that is undeniable in our lives that we deal with and face every day. But when something happens and a white person says something that is ignorant it forces other people to get in that conversation so i'm looking at these moments as

and i've said it before as teachable moments as opportunities to flip the narrative and say hey yeah this is you know if you don't talk to people that are in these different communities on a daily basis, you might not know that something is inappropriate or racist or just wrong to say. So that's the biggest takeaway that I want people to understand. I don't think anyone in the bachelor nation is saying Chris Harrison is the worst person in the world. He needs to just go off and get sued somewhere, whatever, like no one's saying that.

I think that the accountability and then the action behind it. So he's saying, Hey, I effed up and I'm sorry about that. And now what I'm doing about that is taking a step away. And those words and actions put together, I, as a black woman in this nation, appreciate that personally. I think it was the right move to do. Sometimes small changes in our routines

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plus tons of cute characters to collect. Download Best Fiends free today at the on the apple app store or google play that's friends without the r best fiends you've heard a lot of those opinions i've heard a lot of opinions i'm assuming there's people listening right now who unfortunately might be saying i don't get it what was so bad about what chris said and did now we can discuss this a little bit now you've mentioned on on clickbait you've had a discussion about it um a lot of people have heard that you know rachel rachel who was involved in this had a discussion about about this on her podcast higher learning if you haven't listened to that you you should. It's very good. They kind of lay it out in a way that I don't know, I hope is clear to people.

For those people who aren't going to listen to it, I guess we should spend a little bit of time, you know, explaining why it was not okay, what Chris said. Sure. was not okay what Chris said. Sure. The biggest, I mean, there were a lot of things that were said, but the biggest thing that stuck out to me, and I do mention this on Clickbait on our podcast, but the connotation that what happened in 2018 and even in 1970 and even in 1950 and even in 1930, and even in 1930, that it was okay then and it's not okay now that people are woke and there are these quote unquote woke police that are holding people accountable. And really that word woke, whatever people want to say about it, it was cool at one point, now it's not so cool, whatever. want to say about it it was cool at one point now it's not so cool whatever the problem is that slavery was definitely legal in this country at one point that does not make it right that does not mean that it was right and that's why it was abolished and that's why it's no longer here

so even in the 1970s whatever games he was playing with on the playground maybe black people were not present to say hey this is this is actually effed up. This is actually not okay. Those are the type of things that we want to hold people accountable for. So in 2020, African Americans have been very aware thus far among life. I don't think anyone was okay with being enslaved. I don't think anyone was okay when people hear derogatory things said about them or to them ever. It's just that now we have more white allies

and we have more people of color that are standing up and saying, no, I'm not gonna let this go. I'm not going to let this go. I am going to go to HR about this. I am going to go talk to someone about this. I am going to go talk to the news. I am going to make a stink about this and not just let it go. Whereas I believe in the past, it's like, oh, they don't understand. This is how it is. And this is why we are oppressed. And we just stay in our communities and in staying in our communities,

that's how we don't deal with other. But now we're so integrated, we have to deal with everyone. And so as black people migrate into the society, white people have to understand the struggles that we've had to deal with, you know, in life and understand that uncomfortable conversations about race are inevitable now and forever. And they're uncomfortable for white people. They are not uncomfortable for black people.

For me personally, and the people that I know, we talk about it so much that it's not uncomfortable for us and that's something that Chris Harrison also just he never said in the whole entire interview he kept saying this or that and he never actually said people are accusing this young girl yeah Rachel Kirkernel of being racist there are allegations that she is doing racist things he just said this or that. And so I understand that it's uncomfortable for people to grasp. But imagine how uncomfortable it is for the oppressed. And that's what I want people to think about, take themselves out of it and think of how the oppressed people feel.

Yeah. And that's something I've done the past few days, too. You and I have had conversations, I'm friends with Rachel. So I have, you know, I'm very fortunate to be able to reach out to her and have these conversations when this stuff does go on. And even in between, Rachel said on our podcast how, you know, black people never are given the benefit of the doubt. Right. And that that's something i really thought about too and it's just like i went back and you know it's like i see as i you know rachel tells me i see it the criticism rachel gets all the time and almost like this burden or this blame you know that

somehow like it's rachel's fault i mean when the hannah brown stuff was going on um rachel came on this podcast um we you know i'm like we were like hey maybe we should talk about it a week after hannah brown said the n-word on her instagram live before a week before she hannah brown said. And we had a conversation. You know, it's like it seemed nuts that we had to spend time on a podcast, you know, having Rachel once again explain why it's not OK for white people to use the history of the word. But yet we talked about it. And, you know, we were critical of Hannah. And yet it felt like almost there was much criticism towards Rachel. Right.

Than it was towards Hannah at the time. And even Chris, I mean, it's like one of the things that Chris said where he asked almost for page, like we didn't, he said, we didn't give Hannah the space. It's like, that was kind of a nuts thing to say. And knowing what Rachel had to experience by speaking up when that was going on seemed, you know, frustrating. Right. It was like, I think the biggest problem with, with, with a lot of things,

what Chris said, like you said, like we're talking about lenses as if, you know, one example, it's just like the Mississippi state flag had the Confederate flag in the state flag up until what, last year. And it's not because it wasn't insensitive or racist or ignorant in 2019 or 2018. I don't know why it was up. I mean, quite frankly, I didn't know it was still in. And you realize, you're like, what the fuck is going on?

But yes, it almost sounded like what Chris was saying is that these things are insensitive. It's like as if they're all of a sudden insensitive because we decided that they're insensitive, not because we were ignorant and decided to ignore our ignorance. And then again, you're right. White people get very uncomfortable. I mean, I've had a lot of conversations with my white friends. We're all uncomfortable talking about this. And we also get defensive.

And there's one thing I've spent some time trying to focus on the past few days, having conversations with you, Rachel, and other people in Bachelor Nation, is to, because we get defensive because you're just like, I know I've been ignorant. You know, I know that, you know, I have thought things. I have said things, you know, 15 years ago, I didn't understand why someone dressing up in a Native American costume for Halloween was ignorant. It is ignorant. Right. costume for Halloween was ignorant. It is ignorant, right? Now, just because at the time I might've said, well, that's a cool costume for someone to wear. Doesn't mean that it wasn't ignorant then. It just means I was ignorant and didn't realize my ignorance until later. All right. Exactly.

That makes, that makes, and then when you have that realization as white people, we feel very uncomfortable. We get very defensive because we're like what does that say about me does that mean i'm you know and i think there's a lot of thoughts and i think what i've i'm trying to do in my conversations my friend is to not let my defensiveness get in the way of continuing to have these conversations because i think i think that's what happens a lot we get defensive and then we start, the conversation we start having is how do we defend ourselves rather than listening, understanding, and lean into this discomfort.

And that's something I think we'll always have to challenge ourselves to do, but I think it's important to do. I don't know about you guys, but I have been stressed the fuck out lately. I mean, hey, tensions are high, higher than ever before. You know, it's really helped me meditating, just trying to be present, mindful

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There is a big difference. So that's where the accountability comes in. No one held anyone accountable for that flag. So that's why it has been here for so long. When people start holding things accountable and people saying like, we don't want to see this, saying like, we don't want to see this, you know, like this is not what we want to see anymore. And, and, and calling out the ignorance and call it. And, and for some, for a lot of reasons back in the day, it was blatant racism. It was, you know, like it just was. And now why people don't understand it is that, is that ignorance and Nick, and and that's where I was telling you it goes so deep and the sense of African American studies uh Black history having to as a Black woman in school now that I'm looking back in middle school and in high school and in college having to take electives that are African American studies having to take electives that are African-American studies,

having to take electives that tell me about my Black history. And guess who was in that class? All Black people, maybe one or two white people, but all Black people trying to learn about their history. So the fact that this isn't even something that is just in our history. Did you ever take an African-American history class? Was it even possible for you? No. I mean, A, I didn't, and I don't believe or don't remember one being available to me. Now, that might not be true, but I know I didn't take one. And whatever I, you know, and that's what's, you make an interesting point, because there's still ignorance i there's a when this stuff came out about uh rachel k right these first these pictures come out and you know here's a picture of rachel at

this antebellum old south party i'll admit i had no idea what an old south party was i had to google antebellum a week and a half ago right right? I have conversations with a lot of my friends, same thing, it's just like, I didn't know. So you see the picture and your first thought is like, I'll be honest, I don't get it, right? And so now I Googled it, I read, and apparently I've been informed that there was a country music band called Antebellum

and they've since changed their name. I don't listen to country music, so I didn't really know that. But you Google it and then you you read and you're like oh no this old south it was a party that celebrated like old south like the slavery i mean i don't know how to say they celebrated say it right i mean there's no other way to say it so now when you read that you get you're like oh that's fucked up that's super ignorant that's it that's that's racist now when even for myself I grew up in

Wisconsin while I didn't know the thought to myself I think to your point of black history classes is well why didn't I know that I feel there's a guilt there's a defensiveness there's like there's like well I guess that was ignorant that ignorant. Why did it take me this part of my life to know that that stuff goes on, right? Right. And then you feel defensive, and then you're just like, oh, shit. I should have known that. And you're right. We probably should know these things.

We should continue to educate ourselves on the things that are going on in our country. And I think there's a lot more of that going on. But I think we just have to challenge ourselves to continue to do more. Because now that you are an adult, and of course we have the Google, which we didn't have when we were younger, you are educating yourself. Now, if you were in a class and they talked about Nelson Mandela, if they talked about W.E.B. Du Bois, if they talked about these different influential, Langston Hughes, these different influential Black people that I learned about in my African-American studies, you would know a lot more than you know. But again, it goes back to our curriculum. It goes back to, I mean, even as simple as Christopher Columbus. You know what I mean?

Like we celebrate this person who founded this country when people were already here, you know? And I know that's a very controversial thing to say, but it's just not accurate. But we are all taught that, right? Well, kind of, it's the, why is it, the fact that it is controversial is problematic. Exactly, exactly, exactly.

And that's what, and like you said, it's the same thing. Just because I am a black person, that doesn't mean that I am completely understanding to every culture. Society said that it was okay to dress up in Indian garb, and even say Indian garb and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and who and do all these things. Society said that. So that's why you thought it was okay. That was a cool costume. That's cool. That's cool. Whatever. That's why we feel this way. But then we notice and we recognize our ignorance. And then we say, oh, that's actually offensive to a people. And now Native Americans have such a bigger voice and they are talking more because of the internet. The internet has given so many people a platform to say and speak and videos to go viral and things to happen that now people are like, oh, yeah, we have to include them and include them. And it's not taking anything away from me. Nothing is being taken away from anyone's whiteness by including other minorities. It's just false right one question i you know we've i've talked about this on this podcast we've talked about it with

rachel um you know we're like being an ally right um and i think even for a lot of my friends my white friends there's a lot of okay i know it like, I know I want to be an ally. I know what side I want to be on. I know that I want to learn. I want to recognize my ignorance. And there is sometimes, there's a lot of noise out there. There's a lot of opinions. What are your thoughts on that topic? There's a new buzzword going around

that I've learned for the first time this year, performative. Performative on social media, especially as it relates to talking about racism. I mean, you see that all over the place, performative, but even specific to this. And sometimes it does get you know frustrating or um is a sense that like you know listen social media by definition is performative it's right you know podcast you know and then and then you go back to the kind of uh old philosophical philosophical question is does anyone do anything selflessly and so then if you promote it on your social and give it a platform you know is it performative and then but you have we have these platforms and there's a responsible i know i asked you when we were talking about it it was just like what do you think do you think i should say something is it the right thing you you said i i think it would

be helpful um but i'll admit you know when i first watched chris's interview i was like what the fuck is what am i watching and but the first you know the first thing I did is I reached out to my friend Rachel you know I I was fortunate enough that I could do that and and we had a a quick conversation before before the world blew up and she started getting all these phone calls and it was more how can I support my friend you know right but that first thought right away wasn't like well I now I need to go say something or I need to I don't I want to well I did a lot of research about old south and and understand those parties and then you do and then all of a sudden but in the middle of understanding and listening and talking to you and talking to Rachel there's a lot of people who are just like do this do that you know if you don't do this

this means that and what are your thoughts on all that? Like how can we do the right thing without, you know, worrying about what people are saying, despite all the opinions. So as well, first, first, you know, I always say, damned if you do damned, if you don't, if you say something it's effed up, if you don't, it's effed up, you know? So you have to go with what what your heart says but you know as oprah says these aha moments when people have an aha moment like you researched this stuff and had an

aha moment like oh shoot i had no idea that this meant this or this meant that. If you feel that way at your age from where you're from, I mean, you're from the Midwest. I think it's very specific to note that you are actually from the North. So there's a lot of things in the South that you probably don't understand and don't get because you just, you were not from there. You did not grow up there, right? Whereas other people who grew up there know things and know what these things are. So even me as a black person who grew up in the North, there are certain things that I don't even understand, right? So with that said, when you have an aha moment, when you went on Google and researched that, like if you screenshotted, you know, what this party meant

and posted it on your social, so many people will be like, oh, what? That's what that is? Because so many people weren't invested enough to even go research what it is. People just saw a picture of a girl and was like, that's just a picture. Who cares? Right? Yeah. And they didn't even, they didn't even take the extra step to go and do the research and see exactly what this thing is so my whole thing is is if you have an aha moment about something and that's what we learn in writing as well it's like if you have a story to tell someone has either went through it or wants to hear that story and it will help them in the future. So that's how I feel about social. And the biggest thing that people can do is have the acknowledge, just acknowledgement. And that's what I mean, before I talked to anyone,

I saw this and acknowledged that it was effed up. I just want everybody to know I'm acknowledging what just happened. I saw it. I'm a part of this nation and I'm going to speak on it. Right. So that acknowledgement, even for people to just go, like, even with Black Lives Matter, people are dying. People are protesting. People are rioting. All these things are happening. And, you know, there were people who were just posting selfies. Right. And people felt that that wasn't right, but those people maybe didn't feel affected. Maybe they weren't close enough to it. And you being so close to someone like Rachel, you, I mean, you guys shared a season together. How could you not, and you guys are still friends. How could you not feel affected when you see that your friend is just getting

white-splained? I mean, I don't even know if that's a thing just getting white-splained. I mean, I don't even know if that's a thing, but white-splained up and down by someone. And in my personal opinion, it didn't matter if it was Chris Harrison or not. It could just insert person who was ignorant on this matter, right? You would have had probably the same experience with anyone that she was interviewing on Extra that would have came at her probably that way. So acknowledgement, I think is very important. But I also feel that people have to feel called to care about this stuff. And if you don't feel

called to care about it, then you need to ask yourself why, right? There's so many things happening in the world. Why don't we care? My personal thing is I see people online, yeah, performative, whatever you want to call it. If you're talking about things that matter, I don't care how you're talking about them. This is my personal opinion. I don't, I personally, if you're making it, people are going to like it or not, but it's going to invoke conversation. Right. So let's invoke this conversation. Let's talk about this. Let's, let's make this a thing. Let's, let's, let's entice people to feel a way because that's just going to keep the conversation going. I see Rachel's comments on her Instagram at my comments on Instagram, anyone's comments

about anything on these Instagram. I mean, someone even said, where's your post my post. Cause you know, the women from season 25 posted something, the women, the guys from 16, you know, they all post something. Where's my post. My post is my, the color of my skin, you know, like, and to be honest, I have a lot of friends who are African-American, who are Black, who say, yo, I don't have to post about none of this ever because I live this. So some people, that's their mindset. Me, on the other hand, I believe that it is important for me to use my platform in that way. But we did a whole podcast about it. You know, there's my post. Right.

So and I talk about these things all the time. And the person who said that, I'm sure probably doesn't follow me. So whatever. I don't care. But saying that to say, saying that to say, no matter what you do, no matter what you do, people are going to talk shit. Yep. And that, you know, people are going to talk shit. Yep. And it just comes with it. That kind of brings back to the point.

If you feel uncomfortable, that's okay. It's okay. If you feel defensive, that's okay. But just do something with that. Recognize it. Yeah, lean into the defensiveness because why? And even when Chris Harrison said, who are you, Rachel? Who are, who am I to say this or say that? Uh, who, it was almost like, who are you to hold her accountable, Rachel? Who are you to do that? It's like, uh, excuse me. Um, yeah. And so, yeah, it's just, uh, do, you know, lean into the discomfort, uh, do what you said feels right. Acknowledge it. And you're right. You're not always going to, you're not

going to please everyone, but as long as you're doing it, uh, because you want to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. And that's, I guess that's all you can hope for and, and keep talking to your friends. You made a good point when we were talking. It's not only talking to like from me. It's just like I'm thankful for my my black friends and my friends who are people of color and the conversations they're willing to have with me. But it's also conversations with my white friends. Listen, it's tough.

My friends back home. Like I've in the past six months, I've had some tough conversations with things that i've learned that you you know you reach out to and sometimes those conversations go uh well and sometimes you know you're disappointed in in the response uh yeah yeah and i and i said that to you i said what you can do if you are listening right now and you call yourself an ally and you are an ally for equality for all people, when you hear, when you are in white spaces and there aren't people of color around and you hear someone say something, debate with them, have that uncomfortable conversation with them, go back at them, be defensive then and defend your, and defend your allies, right? So that's so important. Like, I hate when people, I hate when people, I would say, compare different minority groups and oppressed people. But for me, I have a lot of gay friends, lots of them. And when I am around a bunch of straight people and someone says something that I know they would not say if the gay person was present, oh, I go at them. I say,

excuse me, what'd you say? That's effed up. Why'd you say that? Let me tell you why that's not okay. Let me tell you that this, you know, and I tell them because I, it's very important for me to know to let people know that what they're saying is is not okay and they're like yo Natasha why are you getting so upset why are you getting so mad because it's not right and that's me holding them accountable whether someone is gay or not you know a part of the the gay community around or not they have an ally in me and they know that is what I'm saying. We could probably keep talking about this. It's a conversation that should continue.

If you do want to hear more from Natasha, she is hosting Clickbait in general. Also, they, as she mentioned, covered this in last week's episode. Go check out Rachel's Higher Learning episode. Should we talk a little bachelor now? Yeah, let's talk bachelor and also clickbait. We're recording tomorrow and the episode drops on Thursday.

I'm sure we will be talking about Chris Harris and more in depth as far as his apology and him stepping away. So you guys can listen to that on Thursday on Apple podcasts and Wondery app and Spotify. So we'll be sure to check that out um yeah and that i listened to your episode uh last week was a great episode yes so this episode a lot i mean a lot this was uh this this episode this week this this season has been dramatic. This one didn't disappoint in its drama. I'm always, like, this season has been very confusing to me in terms of timing.

So this episode starts with the cliffhanger of Heather walking in from last week, and we get a little repeat, and so we see her interrupting piper again we see matt surprised again and we see the women pretty upset about it um i mean what what were you upset yeah so heather heather is here um and everyone's mad it was it. It was just really, it was frustrating, I guess, for me as a viewer. And it's an interesting debate because it seems nuts that Heather's there. Right?

Yep. I think the women have a very justifiable reason to feel frustration. How we show our frustration in life you know it's like you have the right to feel all feelings are valid kind of thing what we do with those feelings how we handle our frustration is a whole nother conversation it's a whole nother topic and it was a bummer to see uh the mean girl group come out again it. What was more of a bummer is that we thought we had eliminated the Mean Girls, so to speak, from this show. And then all of a sudden you had Yesenia,

and I think it was really Yesenia and Piper seemed to be the two... And Serena C. Serena C, yeah, the two new Mean Girls. And there were a couple... Kit's always on the peripheral of the mean the mean girls like she's kind of she's there to keep poking the bear but she never really takes charge also she said like there was a line that kit said what was it like why don't you just

it was it was a line i don't know why is she here why is she here or just leave or something and it sounded like she said it directly to heather i am almost convinced that she said that to her women peers while heather was talking to matt i feel like that might have been some creative yeah you know it's you you kind of have a trained eye. But nevertheless, she still said it, right? And while she might not have said it to Heather, she still said it. But it was just a bummer to see because up until this point, you're like, ah, big fan of Piper. It wasn't a strong episode for Piper in general.

It just wasn't her best episode. I liked her exit, and we'll get into that later. And then Yesenia seemed well one of the girls I think we even gave props to earlier when all the other women were in a lot of the other women were being mean girls and and I asked a question like who were who were some of the women who were not getting validation from Matt at the time um that chose not to be part of the mean group. Cause it's like, you know, it's easy to be quiet when you know, like I'm good. Matt likes me. It's cool. And just sending it didn't speak up then.

But they all, they, I, when I saw that part, when Heather came to talk, it seemed like they banded together, even though we didn't hear from certain people, it seemed like they banded together. Like people were shaking their heads. though we didn't hear from certain people it seemed like they banded together like people were shaking their heads like mm-hmm yeah now I'm gonna disagree with you Nick here I'm gonna disagree with you okay because being on the show as a viewer now which you know I didn't watch the show before so after my experience I can't help but when I

watch this I always put myself in the girl's shoes or you know in in someone's shoes so I always try to think like okay well if I was her if I was her if I was you know and I was just like trying to think about Heather like if I were Heather no I wouldn't be Heather. You know, I just wouldn't be her. I wouldn't. But don't you feel like those are two separate, I mean, discussions in terms of whether you would have done what Heather did? No, what I'm saying is yes, yes. But what I mean is when I think about the girls, so I'm going to go to the girls because we were talking about the girls. Piper, yes, a response response it was not going to be a

good response i mean did she expect them to be like oh hey girl what's up come on in i i don't i don't like how like that would have been fake right like no one cares about matt if they just want another chick here right so that and so that reaction that they had when the girl, when the new girls came in, I thought that was a very real reaction. And also, regardless of if it was mean girl, catty, whatever you want to call it, it was a very real reaction.

Women are, you know, women are, we're territorial. We're just territorial people. We don't want to share a man. We are on a show sharing a man. We don't want to share a man, right? And now you're just another person to come in to take time away. So when I saw their reaction, I was like, oh, yeah, they, yeah, it's not going to end good.

Even when Heather first came last week, I was like, yeah, it's not going to end good. it's not gonna end good even when even when heather first came last week i was like yet it's not gonna end good it's not and i get that was clear yeah yeah and i get that heather wanted to try i i get all that but even her trying to talk to the even her trying to talk to the girls and like be like hey guys like yeah like i'm not trying to like take anyone's time from anyone i think she said that right like didn't she say that i'm not trying to and it's like oh and piper's like but you did but you are your presence being here is so i get it it's a tv show it was dramatic they had to bring her in the way that they did all the things i get that but it was hard to watch from at least me being a viewer seeing that these girls are gonna basically

crumble if she stays here i don't think matt would have had a show i don't know who would have actually stayed even though the other girls didn't say anything i don't see brie staying i don't see who else was there who really didn't say anything michelle i don't see them like stay i mean michelle had a whole breakdown i mean she sure but that's kind of the show right like she was never going to to stay now i've heard some but in the moment do you think those girls knew that i don't think so no but does does that make uh how they spoke to he Heather okay because they had a right to be mad? No, I'm not saying that, but I am saying that she should have expected some heat is what I'm saying. Yes.

We're in 100% agreement there. Yeah, I don't know that. I get that Piper was really pissed and some of the stuff she said, but I'm trying to remember everything just Senia said. I think just Senia was more questioning her. She had a great question. She said, hey, I don't know you guys. And then whoever said, do you even know Matt?

Who said that? I don't. I watched. I watched that part again this morning. Okay. I thought just Senia was particularly mean and just okay i watched it two days ago so i don't really remember that part but i so whoever said do you even know matt that might have been mean but that was valid you don't know us you don't know it was serena p i

think it was because she was all like yeah serena p was like if you wanted to know him then why didn't you try and meet him listen the questions are all valid right it's how they say it and and so how would you have done this well yeah i i mean i don't know if i showed up late to caitlin's season these are like these are some parallels and there's a lot of differences and right it's personal no go ahead i mean it's you know i look at it almost like it's it's uh i can relate both on both sides right um i look at what heather did and it's just like so my questions and like i had people have come out late before now i've i faced questions from the guys and you you face criticism from the audience i knew why I was coming you know what I'm saying I knew Caitlin I I have love letters to prove it that Caitlin I laugh about now

like you know I came wrote Caitlin love letter oh it's well we've talked about this but like I haven't heard this so honey I'm new like you know like about a year ago, Caitlin and I were hanging out and she she knew I sent those letters and I she never found them when she came back. And I was like, well, let me go look at my old inbox, my my scent. And we found them. And it was like, holy shit. And you read them. They're heavy. You know, it's like it's just like you when you read back love letters that you sent like to someone you are, you know, are just friends with or indifferent indifferent about it's like a weird thing and you it's like an out of body of experience but my point is is i knew why i came you know what i'm saying and i came at a time and um where there was still plenty of season left and i knew i was gonna get criticism and i got criticism from the guys i dealt with it all season long i knew and for me at the time I knew why I was going and to me it was like I'm it I

what I felt like is I had the truth on my side and that truth was I have talked to this person I've built a connection with this person this crazy situation happened and I really like her and I really and and because she was given this opportunity to be the bachelorette my only option to see if there's really something there before she's probably engaged is to take this big risk that was and and i wasn't going to give all the guys the details of how well we knew each other etc but i knew why i was there regardless of whether other people did. So then I look at Heather, right, in this situation, and the story we're being told is that Heather never met him. All she knows is what her friend Hannah Brown told her, right?

And now I've heard from reliable sources, and I'm surprised to hear this, and I almost have a hard time believing it, but I don't, you know, I would assume that Heather would verify this that she in fact paid for her flight that this this white minivan that everyone's talking about heather rented that damn minivan this wasn't like some sort of like production like let's just put her in a white minivan apparently she in fact rented that i find that i didn't pay for my flight to New York when I showed up for Caitlin's season. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I was like, you know, they called. They heard some rumors that there was a relationship. They gave me an opportunity, and I said yes to it. Right. This seems like I've heard that Heather asked multiple times to come and was kind of advised, this probably won't go well for you. And she showed up anyways. And they were like, all right, you're here.

Let's do it. Now, so do I think Heather deserves heat? Do I think Heather is being naive to expect to come in there, to your point, and just show up and not get all the heat she got of yeah no i totally agree with you i'm just looking at it separately it's just like unfortunately like heather did all these things and because of how they talked to her they you couldn't help but feel for heather in that moment they almost made her look sympathetic even though she deserved no sympathy i guess is my point um it's just how they how and again like it's not because they didn't have a right to be mad

right they had every right to be frustrated so what would you what do you if you were the girls what do you think you would have done well what i here's what i would have done i would have i would given the guy they say they're falling in love with. They say they believe in, they say they, you know, I would have first wait to see what he does. Yeah. You know, and that seems like that's what Brie and Michelle did.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, these are women who are just like, I'm going to. Although.

Go ahead. I did see some head nods. Oh, they were in agreement. They all mad again they have all of them have every right to be so mad i totally get it but it's just like just you know um yeah yeah i guess it was more like i was bummed that like all of a sudden i'm watching and i'm thinking why do like why am i feeling bad for Heather? And why am I mad at Yesenia? That's I shouldn't feel this way. You shouldn't feel that way. Yeah. And it's just like, let it just send it. Just let her just let her. Yeah. She showed up five days. They're like, it's two weeks before hometowns. This was the cocktail party going into the last week before hometowns so in the real world that's five days

you're five days away from hometowns and heather's showing up like what oh come on like heather you may not know a lot about this show i know you're on colton season and there's a lot you might not know but you know enough that that was an impossible like you look foolish saying uh i i'm prepared to get engaged to matt like you just you look you sound crazy you sounded crazy right completely crazy is it a valid question she looked great she looked wonderful she looked great she really did she looked great she really did but so i will say you know now that I'm thinking about it you know on my season uh Alea comes back right she gets in home and then she comes back and I remember that day so clearly um and it was a very long day a lot I mean it was of course a very different situation because she was already on the

season and then she came back you know it was a very different thing but i remember just being like i remember just bring like okay go ahead come back you know what i mean like if he brings her back like like there's no this just solidifies that he has no idea what he's doing you know what i mean and that and those were my thoughts but I my beef was always with him and it wasn't with her at that point on that day does that make sense and then a bunch of other stuff happened and there were some other things that happened but we you know that was last season we're not going to talk about that but I feel what you're saying as far as taking it up with Matt seeing what he's going to do and he did he did let me tell you he did the right thing i mean he definitely he did the right thing no how like how that's how it read to me right you asked

like what what what i would have done in that situation and so matt did the right thing and so what it looked like is for like the for uh for piper and specifically jessenia who or and uh serena because they're the ones the most outspoken and I guess a little bit Kit is that we've all thrown temper tantrums in our life. We've all reacted especially

when we feel passionate about something and then we throw these fits. I know I've done it and then we find out that we essentially threw the temper tantrum for no goddamn good reason. And you're just like, you feel stupid. You feel dumb. And I was surprised.

And then when Piper got to go talk to Matt, it just didn't seem like, you know, maybe we didn't see it. Maybe there was a recognition by Piper we didn't get to see right yes it just it but it looked like she there there was no like you know maybe maybe they overreacted you know like i guess i got a little mad but thank you i know like i get that it's hard for you matt and and you didn't ask heather to show up but like i don't know i was mad and crying and i maybe we just didn't see it but i cannot see piper going back and sitting down him being like where were we no i'm sure she was like huh thank god she's gone like i i can't believe it but i don't know we didn't see it but i can't i mean just from what we know of piper she's very outspoken she says what she feels yep i well i yeah i don't i mean i always want to give

the benefit of the doubt but um i don't know it was kind of funny to see and i don't know if this is matt you know matt's very cautious and you know he wants to be nice respectful and say the right thing and so i know when heather shows up he's like I want to be nice and respectful. But like this idea, listen, I have a, throughout my life, I had so many wonderful women friends that have tried to set me up. And these are women I respect, you know, I love. And I'll tell you what, I don't, like, I love them and I respect them. But when they, I have this friend and blah, blah, blah. It's just like when Matt was like, I've never met her, but like Hannah Brown says she's

great. So I guess I have to seriously think about it. I was just like, what do you mean, man? Like, like, I don't understand. Like no guy, guys generally don't like to be set up in general. And even though it's their good friends, maybe people don't. Right. Because like, just because your friends think they're good people doesn't mean they're right good friends. Do women? Yeah, maybe people don't, right? Because like, just because your friends

think they're good people doesn't mean they're right for you, you know? And it was just like, I don't understand this whole like strong consideration for Heather. It would have been nice to see Matt be like, what the fuck are you doing here? I mean, the laugh.

I mean, it probably was a nervous laugh. For sure, it was an awkward laugh, yes. I was like, they know each other. I thought they knew each other because he was a nervous laugh. For sure, it was an awkward laugh, yes. I was like, I was like, they know each other. I thought they knew each other because he was laughing so hard. Like, remember that day that I saw you that one day? Like, I was like, maybe he's remembering. I feel like I read somewhere that Matt, since post-show, did an interview and acknowledged that he had met Heather at least once, like in passing. Like, I could be wrong there.

Okay. And listen, I've said this a hundred times it's impossible and it's very difficult to be the lead and be the bachelor and in that moment i'm sure matt was thinking what the fuck is going on why is she here i'm sure he was mad at production in that moment for being like what why do i why do i have to deal with this you know like why why do i have to like explain that like heather's not bad but i'm gonna send her home like why do i like why do i have to fucking do this i'm certain matt felt that in the moment and you know it's just like you know and then he's like awkwardly laughs and you know i don't know but he does he does the the right thing heather goes home in her minivan he you know i mean they brought that full circle and now we are in i guess the week and the whole this season has been weird i just want to point

out just how little all these women just how little time all these women have had like more than any other season because they've had so many women and so many new women show up and then you have heather and a new woman of this season show up five days before hometown you only have one person get a second one-on-one and it's usually by the time hometowns are upon us um usually three out of the four final four have had two one-on-ones and now you only have one and that is serena p is the only one who had two one-on-ones and it sounds like after watching the episode that the reason she was probably got that one-on-one is one i just want to point out i said watch out for serena p after she got that first one-on-one matt really likes her you know and clearly he does but now we found out

that we're not sure how much serena p likes matt and it seems like so if i had to guess why serena p got that one-on-one is because it was one of the uh women that matt's most interested in and she's the one who needed that time more than anyone else yeah and he didn't know he didn't know where they stood yeah and then so how did you feel about the tantric yoga and and serena's p p's like response to it so that was it was this was very interesting this date was very interesting so I personally loved the aspect of the date I thought it was really cool because you know I'm into yoga I'm into tantric so that was like I was like oh this is fun but she didn't even like it I was like oh gosh so my is, when it comes to this type of stuff, because I am a yoga teacher and meditation teacher.

Yes. And I have. Well, it must have really struck a chord. I mean, yeah, it really did. My question was, is she just not connect? Like, was it the physical aspect of it with another person? Or was it just who the person is? Because yes, tantric. I mean, we saw this with, we saw this with on Tayshia season as well her and blake did something yeah it was kind of they've done this before i think jojo did it with chase on her season i mean again they're by the nature of where they're stuck at a location they are they have limited options and having to kind of reuse themes they've done in the past so bringing in a yoga instructor makes sense right so the purpose is i think to um you know re-establish or establish

some sort of connection and i think that she again i don't know if she was just so anti the movement of it all or you know the connection of it all um clearly we didn't see all of the date because matt mentioned something that we didn't even see when they were sitting down and talking what was that remind me he said that uh the point when we were looking in each other's eyes and we had to stare at each other and that is that is a tantric practice that you do a lot of times before you have sexy time uh you do that with someone and it is just really deep connection yeah exactly and so we didn't see them do that with someone and it establishes this really deep connection. Yeah, exactly. And so we didn't see them do that. But he said that that was a point that he really, he clearly was feeling connected to her and showing himself. He said he felt naked.

And that is kind of what happens. But she was just so guarded. And, you know, because he likes her so much, at least it sounded like he was bearing himself. So that made him like her more, whereas he wasn't necessarily looking at her or else he would have picked up how uncomfortable she really was. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So my, so the body language, I was looking at the body language a lot during this date and at the nighttime and everything. I'm not convinced that she's so into him. Not like the other girls, at least.

I totally agree because, I mean, you bring up all these very interesting things about tantric yoga that I didn't think about while watching it. interesting things about tantric yoga that I didn't think about while watching it. But when I, when I was watching it, your, your first, what you first hear from Serena P is, well, I listen, PDA, public displayed affection. I'm not a huge fan of, right. So, but, so my first thought is, wait, you, you know, you've been on the bachelor. I mean, like mine, like you, you think she's, you think, you think she's referring to the yoga instructor and maybe she is, but like she has been kissing Matt with a whole crew around her for weeks. And all of a sudden we're hearing about this PDA. So then you're like, okay, well, I don't know if that makes sense. And maybe she's just saying because she doesn't know what to say.

Right. But that doesn't make sense. But now, you know, hearing you talk about tantric yoga, maybe like it just intensified that and made it a little bit more real for her. But the only thing I was left was, I don't think this girl is that into Matt. You know? Yes. At the end of the day, say what you want. Say what you want about like why she was uncomfortable, et cetera, et cetera.

I think she just might not be into Matt, right? And in that world, that's a lot of pressure. I think she just might not be into Matt. Right. And then, and in that world, that's a lot of pressure. I mean, we've seen how people react. It's not, and it's not these, these women this season, it's guys too on the, when they're on the bachelorette, there's this pressure. Wait, you don't, why are you here? If you don't, there's this pressure to be just as in love with all of your peers, especially when people start saying, I love him or I'm in love. And you're just like, well, I don't know if I'm there yet.

And everyone's like, well, if you're not in love, why are you here? Like you're wasting our time. You know, like it becomes, you get very defensive of like the fact that you're not maybe feeling the same as your peers are just constantly talking about. And so there's like, well, I got to fall in love more.

And so I appreciate why Serena P. might be feeling nervous about that or like almost there's a weird, like only in Bachelor World do you feel guilty about necessarily not loving someone. Maybe in the real world you do too, but she seems to be conflicted with that because you can ask yourself why doesn't she just leave well she's in this bubble and she she sees this you know handsome nice guy and she sees everyone else being like i'm so in love and she's probably just trying to get there yeah yeah and i think for a lot of people a lot i'm not saying that she doesn't

a lot i'm not saying that she doesn't like him but from the body language it was like she might be someone that this world doesn't work for everybody right it just it doesn't it doesn't work for everybody and she could be thinking to herself like after this if we make it whatever i really like being with this person i like talking to this person after when we are in closed doors when we are this or that that's when we can um that's when we can you know really bloom and grow because he said we've established the the friendship like we've established that and for some relationships you establish the physical first and then the friendship and some people it's the friendship and then the physical. So I think that's another reason

why she got this date because he clearly really likes her. She's gorgeous. She really is like an air every time you see her on screen. She's very vibrant and fun and funny and all the things. So maybe it's that after effect effect and we're also comparing these relationships

as viewers we're comparing these relationships and we're seeing like i'm thinking about everybody else's one-on-one like i said michelle and that was the most chemistry that i saw personally the one-on-one matt had with michelle yes yeah just a level of the one-on-one Matt had with Michelle. As far as body language. Just a level of... The one-on-one... With Michelle. Yeah, yeah. It was just like, this is the... You know when you hold hands and you link like that? You're not holding like this. They were like... They were in there.

They seemed the most comfortable with each other. A mutual respect. Very easy to relate. We talked about this before. Clearly Matt and Rachel think each other are hot. Like, you know, there's a, you know, there's a definite chemistry there. I will say for the first time this season, every season I've, you know, and I felt this,

like there is a point in the season where if you really pay attention, you can tell who the lead feels the most comfortable with, right? And because towards this time of the season, like, listen, it's hard to fall in love with more than one person. You can want to make... Is it? I think so, you know, and I mean, really fall in love. I mean, you are the former bachelor.

But everyone's different personality, but I think if you're going to try to to find if you're going to get to a point where you're going to get engaged to anyone in six or seven weeks like you really have to focus your energy on that relationship i don't know how you can get to a point to fall in love with anyone in six and seven weeks without like really focusing on it let alone two or three people and and constantly so in your head and i'm sure to some degree it's different for everyone, but if you do, if you are the lead and you happen to start, you know, start thinking about weeks as you get to the end, who might I pick?

Because you're thinking about it all the time, right? And then if you do. This is, I mean, tell me. If you do lock in on someone, right. Then you're just like, you feel a sense of relief. Oh, I think I'm going to pick this one. I was nervous about this not working out. Now you, and then you really want to build that relationship. But you know, all these women and all the men who are on the bachelorette, you always hear, I don't get enough time. I don't get enough time. Well, once the lead likes someone, they don't get time with the person they like the lead likes someone, they don't get time

with the person they like either. You know, they get, they go on, they have their favorites, the lead, right? The lead has their favorites, right? So every time the leads on a date or having a conversation with anyone, there are people, they enjoy those conversations in time more. And there are other people where they're just trying to be nice you know there's exactly you know just trying you know right and yeah and towards the end as it gets emotionally stressful and physically stressful for the for the lead when he's with the person he likes the most there's this release of like i'm just want to enjoy this moment i just like i feel the most comfortable here and when he gave rachel that one-on-one that, that group date rose and then had that little like song time, he put his head in her shoulder

and there seemed to be a, from Matt and every lead experiences that because he's just like, you're the person I like the most. We only have about 20 minutes and I'm going to go have, I'm going to have to go back to being the bachelor. But right now I'm with the person I like. I felt that with Vanessa. I've had other conversation with leads before where it's just like, you're, you're trying to protect that relationship while getting through being the

lead. That's usually what happens by the time you're at the end. You're just like, I think I could pick this person by the time you're at the end you're just like i think i could pick this person how do i get to the end and i kind of saw that with with uh with rachel this episode when he was dancing with her and for me it was before the dance he even with going and agreeing with what you're saying he said when i'm not with you i'm thinking about you or something like that to her and i was like oh that's deep right there yeah you know i was like oh so i definitely think that um yeah it's it's just and and going from a, even when he said, just being the other girls, going from the group date rose, giving her the rose, I'm like, well, I got something special.

And they're like, for Rachel, it's like, oh, you know? Oh, yeah, it was a, it was a really, it was, it was dramatic and it was hard to watch, but it was good television where you just see every sad face after Rachel got that you, you it's the Matt and Rachel are dancing cut back to like just the, the, the pressure that, that is this time of the season. Right.

I mean, even like I've been such a brief fan this whole season. And then here you hear Bree, like, I don't think we've heard that. I mean, maybe we have in past seasons, you know, long ago, but Breeze but breeze is like i quit my i just want you to know i quit my job and it wasn't like i quit my job i quit my career is what you know i heard from her like

that she loved her job but she was reaffirming to matt like this is important to me and while matt was great and he listened and he did his best to show his gratitude for her time he was like when he you know matt does this thing when you know he's trying to be nice he's like thank you for sharing you know and he does this thing where it just comes across as like he's more concerned about being polite rather than like this this is gonna like i don't know what he would have said, what he could have said. But if I think if Brie was my person, if I'm Matt, right, and I'm like, don't worry, girl, we're at the end of this is going to be you and I, I would have said more than thanks for sharing, you know, and I don't credit like it's Matt's like, again, once again, Matt, I empathize with like,

there's so much coming at the guy and then she's like, I quit, you know, and I don't doubt he really likes Brie. But his response kind of told me he's not going to pick Brie. Yeah. And him not giving her that group date rose. If I just told you I gave up my job. Yeah. I need a rose, honey. Yeah.

Especially if you're my front runner. If you're my front runner and you quit the job, I'm like, I need her to know. I want her to go to bed and I want her to have no second guesses about the decisions she just made. You know? Exactly. And I think Brie's going to be fine. She's fantastic. She's great.

She's actually my favorite. She was from just their bios she's the person that on clickbait we all picked our person she was the person that i picked to go really far just because she just they're a lot she just seems like a badass you know brie and abigail have been my favorite uh for all the reasons you just you know breeze breeze great and then there's abigail uh which love love it's been uh heartbreaking as a viewer to to not see abigail get any first impression rose just and i've said before like certainly producers have a lot of influence there's a conversations that constantly go on with the leads but it it is about love and it is about connection and the lead has the biggest say

on who gets these one-on-one dates it's it's it's definitely a conversation but they have the biggest say and the fact that abigail never got a one-on-one is the fact that matt simply just wasn't into her because the producers would have loved to see abigail have a one-on-one um i mean listen she i also go ahead well i was gonna say also just maybe it's just from what we are seeing of her but she started she went from being this really confident person and the first night like she seemed very confident very you know they did even in like yeah their their secret signal ear thing yeah it was just like they booming. And then it was like, cause this also happens too. And you're, as you know, you start second guessing yourself once you see other relationships

blooming and blossoming. And even for me, I feel Abigail because I saw other people getting one-on-ones and two one-on-ones before I even got one. And so that, that makes you, yeah, it makes you second guess yourself. It makes you doubt yourself. It makes you think like, well, I know how I feel when I'm with him, but clearly he feels otherwise because he's in these other relationships, but maybe I'm tripping. So maybe I'll say, you know, and that's where those things, you know, you start second guessing

yourself. So that confidence starts to diminish because you don't feel that high anymore. So I kind of saw that too. And even the conversation that she was saying, she's like, so it's like now instead of this confident person that he sees when he that he first saw when he sits down with her, it's like, hi, I'm sad. I don't get a one on one. You know, now you're just like sad. And that's not the person that he gave a first impression rose to. Right.

No. Yeah. But at that point, that was that classic like, you know. Abigail goes in there and kind of, I guess, confronts, you know, she was going home at that point. You know what I'm saying? Like once Abigail didn't get the one on one from the from the last one-on-one, the writing was on the wall. And Abigail did the most with the little bit she had to work with was to say, send me home. Don't make me go through this whole date in a row of ceremony. Like at least acknowledge. And I want to, because if you send me home in a row of ceremony, I'm not going to get a chance to ask you, why did I get the first impression rose? Why do we have a secret signal?

And why have you sidelined me the entire time? Like, I deserve an answer. And that's the most with what she got. I didn't expect her to be happy about it. And why should she be confident? She has no reason to be confident with Matt. You know what I'm saying? Like, she was waiting and waiting and she was poised.

And she was like, you know what? And like, it's one of those things. You always see cast people react like by week four. Well, I got a one-on-one you're just like listen doesn't matter if you get a one-on-one week week one or week six there's only you only get one the first six weeks but now when all of a sudden it's just like you you know once serena p gets one and then jessenia gets her first one she's got zero reason to be confident. She like, you know, unless she's delusional, she knows she's going home. So, you know, I don't know. I will say her exit, you always got to pay attention to the exits

when they start considering next bachelorettes. I know there's been a lot of noise about Katie being a bachelorette. You know, who am I to say who? I mean, I'm still, I mean, I have an opinion. I would like to see Abigail Katie would be entertaining but Katie's limo exit was kind of like yeah you know but Abigail had a couple of those beats of like you know you're like I it's always I always get myself in the situation and she said in a sympathetic sympathetic way and like when will when will it be my turn

type of like you leave that note and i was paying attention to that and it certainly at least had a little bit of a glimpse of you know next bachelorette exit so we'll see i i don't know but uh i still hold out hope that abigail could be our next bachelorette i i and and i will say i was really sad like i almost cried in her exit because i felt that. I felt that so much. I'm like, girl, I feel you, girl. I feel you.

The single ladies out there, y'all feel Abigail in that exit, I'm sure. Just a quick thoughts on Yesenia's 101. There's not a ton to talk about. I felt like we always knew she was going home. I will say that date is awesome um like the fun it was a fun date uh i i don't i'd like to get in the cars and and fuck shit up so that was cool not never a good sign never a good sign when you have to ask the guy to pick you up and put you on a car um and then what it was hot though like the little

the shot of it was hot the shot was hot and it made for a good like preview because like in the previews you're like i'm thinking there's no way jessenia's not going home right but then we see the preview and i'm like and even my girlfriend now we were watching he goes but he he they're making out in a car you're like oh that's a good point like how can he make out with her in a car but then you watch it and she asks matt to pick her up he sets her up and instead of making out he buries his head in his shoulder not because he's like you know the whole rachel met but he was just like uh shoulder not kiss yeah no he put his head in his shoulder, her shoulder, and then was kind of like, I probably should kiss you.

And then he like, then he like pecked her about five or six times. There was no hot makeout. Like, you know, you never have to ask a guy to throw you up against the wall or, you know, and, and, you know, Matt doesn't seem to be the most sexual guy. Like he hasn't used a lot of walls and pool tables and cars to to have like a hot makeout and so maybe this is not him but when when i felt like it would have looked a little bit more natural with say michelle brie or rachel uh or even kit um but uh yeah i mean you know just yeah because he picked her did he pick Kit up and put her

on the kitchen table yeah I mean Matt you know Kit's one of the I feel like every season the lead has like a little crush on someone that they they're like I'm just not this isn't gonna

happen you know there's like this mutual respect. There's like, we would be friends. We might have a hot make out one night. Who knows? Maybe we would get drunk enough to hook up, but it's just never going to happen. And I feel like for Matt, that's Kit, you know?

Interesting. Interesting. I never thought about that. And you know, I know Kit. You do know Kit. I didn't know that oh yeah yeah yeah I know her um I talk about it on my podcast too when the first time that I met her it was very funny um but yes I do know her um a was into it i was into it i was

into her laying it all out it's saying like i'm not gonna get married right after this i want to finish school i want to i thought it was very even though she's young she is mature yeah um even though she's been you know called a mean girl for being very honest with her feelings and being reactive with her feelings um i can't say that i am i'm i'm proud of that conversation that she had with him because she basically said like i'm not just looking for a guy to lead my life. I have things that I want to do with my life and I need someone that's going to be on board with the things that I also want to do and be supportive. And as I support them type of thing, I thought that was, I thought I was, I loved that conversation. What'd you think?

I loved it too. From a woman empowerment standpoint of, of letting a guy know that you're dating that i have these dreams and aspirations and they're non-negotiables and it's not something i'm willing to love that great it also just seemed like kit you know but then there's the this is the show aspect and like why did you come on the show i'm sure there's going to be a lot of like well why'd you bother to come on if you're not you know whatever from a comical it looked it seemed like you know uh kit was like hey listen i came on the show we actually i we like each other more than i think we both anticipated but like i'm not taking my mom to home i'm not bringing my my mom's not coming um it felt like she was trying to get matt

to break up with her the first time she like started to like be real with him and then matt was like you're great you know and then she was like fuck and then she was like well he was supposed to break up with me now i have to go break up with him that's kind of how it seemed because i felt like she was just like this my time here has run its course and well i love that she said those things and they're all true i felt like she was saying it because she was like this. I need to go because I'm not going to end up with you. And I don't want to go through this. Like it gets very the seat. The experience for the contestants is dramatically different from hometowns on.

Just I don't know how timing is in this new COVID Bachelor world, but pre-COVID, the show took about nine weeks. And the first five and a half weeks are all the contestants, from whether it's 25 to 30, and they start down to four. And then there's still four weeks left of filming for the final four and the final four usually is sticks around to the end whether they're still part of the show or they leave and they're you know it's a very it's a whole nother it's almost like a whole nother season a whole nother emotional thing and it seemed like kit was self-aware enough to just be like, I'm good, I've had my time,

and I should walk away now before it gets a little too much. Because I feel like Kit always knew that she wasn't going to end up with Matt. I'm sure she saw the connection with Michelle, Brie, and Rachel and thought, maybe I'm top four. But I'm not top two. Well, so here's the thing and that's a very deep thought you mean but you know kit you've had conversations i'm just from a viewer yeah i i'm gonna be honest with you if he didn't do that um the thing that he did with rachel where he took rachel after that rose ceremony

they like cut to Kit's face at that like when he says he's taking Rachel to do whatever special thing I think that that was the final straw for her I think that is the thing and at least when I was watching it I was like oh he shouldn't have did that honey he shouldn't have did it because it's I think if he would have given her that first that that group date rose, I think she would have stayed. I think that that conversation was a result of her feeling like it's just either it's not me or I can't believe he did this or, you know, that was my reaction. I was like she was like, no, I mean i mean i gotta go talk to him i gotta get i got because that is some bullshit you know like i saw like when they cut to the even i mean even brie all the brie was crying when he left with her yeah she's just like i just quit my job and now i

think i i'm i'm probably at best a runner-up right Right, right. And that's another thing, too, about Brie. It's like he does this, she says this, and it was so heartfelt in my position because I'm, of course, a viewer and I'm watching this. I'm like, when you think about it, there's only one Matt. She could get another job. She can have another career. She can redo this. And she literally was telling him there's only one Matt that she could get another job. She can have another career. She, you know, she can, she can, she can redo this.

And she literally was telling him there's one you and I see us after this and I want this to work with us and I can get another job whenever I want. And that, like you said, went right over his head. Well, thanks for sharing. That was great. Thanks girl. I was like, oh, yeah. Bree does. Bree deserved that rose in was like, oh, yeah, Brie does.

Brie deserved that rose, in my opinion, because of that whole situation. But, you know, well, it's it's I also think she could have talked to him before she resigned and said, hey, this thing is coming up. And I want to know that, you know, where we are with this. And maybe he would have sent her home then if he knew that that was on the line. That's a very interesting point. I didn't think about that in terms of Brie having that conversation with Matt before she resigns rather than saying, well, I've already resigned. So it is what it is. That's an interesting point. I did not think about that.

But it also kind of like Rachel getting that rose. getting that rose it just speaks to again it's wild to me how little time all of these women have had with matt and the expectation around um getting engaged towards the end they truly have had no time and so all these little moments become that much more valuable so again rachel getting that rose says so much more than even in past season because you have such little time to validate the relationships that you feel strongest about. And in terms of the person you think you might pick, you have such little time to spend with them to try to get to know them. And that's what we always talk about. Like people like, well, how do you make it? Like it's a leap of faith, man.

talk about like people like well how do you make it like it's a it's a leap of faith man like sometimes you do pick the person you're most physically attracted to because that's the only thing you can be certain of in that moment is your physical connection because the rest is just a guessing game because like that's that talking that that dance he had with with rachel 30 minutes tops you know the song was five minutes and maybe there's some time before they, they walk in and a few minutes after just kind of hang out and chill and talk about like, you know, their favorite midnight snack. But truly they're not getting hours. Like Rachel got an extra 30 minutes. That's not, that's not learning about the person you're going to get engaged to that. It's just a leap of faith. And listen, that's, that's the show. That's what you sign up for,

too that it's just a leap of faith and listen that's that's the show that's what you sign up for whatever uh but matt when he is trying to figure out how do i allocate these moments of validation he has such little to work with and that makes that makes it that much crazier and matt and harder i mean i and that's i don't fault matt i mean what is he supposed to do the guy's trying to get engaged the only one expected to get engaged at the end of the season is Matt. None of these women have the expectation from anyone else to get engaged. They might have an expectation of themselves, but America's expecting Matt to get engaged, whether he does or not. And every lead feels that expectation.

And it is tough. But, yeah, you really felt that in that moment for all those reasons we just talked about. And yeah, my heart went, I was like, Bree, Bree. I want to make, we're finishing up. I want to make one point. Chelsea went home. And there is, no one will exit their walkout better than Chelsea ever did. And no shame to Serena.

Is it Serena C? What a hard act to follow when you follow walking out of a runway model. Whatever Chelsea was wearing was glistening. She looked every bit of a professional supermodel runway model, just like the lights beaming on her her and she is gliding down the carpet and you know serena looked like a walk that's just not not a walk she was gliding down there and i was just like damn and then you know fucking serena c had to follow i mean i i wouldn't have wanted to follow chelsea in that moment she's just like i mean props, props off to Chelsea for that moment. Cause it was, it was a, it was a walk.

It was Chelsea. Yeah. And it was like, it was, I mean, she probably, I mean, you know, she probably can't even help it. It's probably just a strong walk. Oh my God. If she go in to get coffee. I want to take walking lessons from Chelsea.

It was just like, woo, like, man, how do you like, how do you own that moment so well? Oh, God. Yeah, I actually did not know that she was going to go at that time. I thought maybe Serena was. I actually thought it was going to be Yesenia. I thought we were going to see a one-on-one with him and Chelsea instead of Yesenia. I thought maybe Yesenia was going to leave at that-on-one with him and Chelsea instead of Justinian. I thought maybe Justinian was going to leave that, that time,

but you know, I was surprised. I mean, other than it's, I've been, I died on the vine. I was certain that Katie was going to go home this week, not last week. You know, I've, I've been wrong a lot. It's been harder to tell just because there's so much drama and so many moving pieces this season. It's been harder to figure out i mean when it when when brie and michelle got the the roses i had like an audible like you know i was i'm a big michelle fan so it was down to it was down to it was down to michelle and and piper and piper's great but like

you know piper didn't have the best episode i'm a big fan of michelle so i had a like an audible like yes i wasn't sure i thought piper might get it. I've been very like on edge of like who Matt really likes. And that's been fun to watch. But it's been unsure. Like I wasn't sure if Chelsea wasn't going to get it or Serena. Michelle is my, she is my bachelorette pick if she doesn't make it. I mean, that'd be great. Michelle, I mean, I, i she just and then even at the

end of this episode when they showed all the michelle moments the cracking back yes and her doing the push-ups like i just she just seems like so cool she seems cool but she's still elegant but she's still a lady you know you you bring up a good point like Like, Abigail, for her story, like, we haven't had a lead that, you know, with Abigail being deaf and representation of that community, I think that would be really unique and cool. So, like, I just like that. Michelle seems to be, like, in as much as I like Brie, we don't get to hear a ton from Brie.

So, to your point, like, Michelle, it's clear her ability to carry a season, her ability to talk to all her men. Like I feel like at least from what we're seeing, I have no doubt that Michelle would get things out of men that maybe some of the other women might not be able to get out of because of her presence and her ability to just both like have serious conversations and be playful. So I think that would be an excellent choice. I'm still going to go with Abigail, but I think Michelle would be excellent. Is she 28? Yeah. So yeah. And then more like an age, you know, kind of a believing that you're really ready to settle down. I mean, age is relative, but yeah. Right. It's relative, but I do think the fact that she's 28, she is a teacher. She's probably been doing her career for a little bit. You know, yeah, I love her.

I love her. Yeah. No, she would be great. They got some really strong choices. You know, whether it's Katie, Abigail, Michelle, Bree. How old is Katie? 20. Oh, Katie's 30.

I think Katie is the oldest. 20. Oh, Katie's 30. I think Katie is the oldest. She just I saw something about her tweeting about being 30 and listening to Justin Bieber live. Yeah. So I think she just turned. I think she was 29 when she was filming. OK, yeah. And I only bring up age just because of more of like the the where you are in life. I think anyone can get married at any time no matter what your age is or whatever that is if you're ready for that depending on how you grew up but just where you are in life as far as you know do you know things like like for instance kit is 21 and she knew that she wanted to finish school and do this and do that and all these different things you know so though those type of things and where you are, you can know that, but then you can accomplish that

and then decide you want to get married or whatever you want to call it. So it's not, I don't want to, I'm not trying to be ageist at all. It's okay. Yeah. We're all, we're, we're just trying to get it right. Natasha, I get it. Right. Natasha, thank you so much for, for coming on and recapping this episode. And obviously thank you for taking the time, um, to, you know, talk about obviously racism and ignorance and the things that we talked about in the top of the show. Um, uh, it's, uh, obviously, um, it's important. And important. And every moment that you give us is I think great. And we very much appreciate it. And you can find Natasha every week on clickbait and follow her on all things

social. Yes. You remind the people where they can find you. Yes. The social networks are my Instagram at Natasha Parker. Clickbait Instagram is at clickbaitbn. And we are on Spotify, Wondery, and Apple Podcasts on Thursdays is when we normally air, unless there's a special episode. unless there's a special episode, there's that special episode,

Nick, but thank you so much for having me. This is really great. Nice to catch up. Always. You're a great, you'll have to come back for one of our ask Nick episodes. I feel like you would be a great at giving relationship advice.

Oh yes. I mean, those who cannot do teach, right? That's what they say. Coaches don't play, you know, why do you think I can do this um no you're fantastic it's been fun getting to know you um we we got a chance to meet in person a few months ago and uh again just thank you for being someone that I can reach out to and if you are interested and, you know, continue to educate

yourself on the things we talked about, like I said, check out clickbait, check out higher learning. And, you know, as, as Natasha says, the Google, you know, just do what you can and challenge yourself to continue to, you know, lean into the discomfort. It's okay if you feel defensive, but don't let that be a reason to shy away from playing your part. Amen. Thank you guys for listening. Don't forget

to send your questions at asknigga.castmedia.com cast with a K. We always appreciate you taking the time and listening. We will be back tomorrow discussing psychics and mediums with Chris Medina. We have a real fun conversation with Chris to talk about that topic of one. I'm a bit of a skeptic, and Chris was so gracious and cool to allow that conversation to happen.

That hasn't been the case with other people in his profession, so it was a really fun conversation. Be sure to check that out. Other than that, I hope you guys have a great day. We'll see you tomorrow. with other people in his profession. So it was a really fun conversation. Be sure to check that out. Other than that, I hope you guys have a great day. We'll see you tomorrow.