The Viall Files - E240 The Bachelor Recap With Dave Holmes

Episode Date: February 23, 2021

On today’s Bachelor Recap we are joined by Dave Holmes, you may remember him from his days on MTV as a VJ, as an Editor-at-Large for Esquire, or as the guy in the Britney documentary talking about what it was like covering her career. Whichever way you know Dave, make no mistake when we tell you that with his pop culture background, Dave came to play for this recap. Nick and Dave take an overly detailed look at the hometown dates of Michelle, Bri, Rachael, and Serena P. Together they really dig in and ask all the important questions like, was there really no way to steam the wrinkles out of the Canadian flags?  It is a bit of a super sized episode  tonight, but with this commentary and break down, you won’t want to miss a minute of it.   “ …to say that was weird and I didn’t really like it takes some gumption.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Noom: http://www.noom.com/VIALL to sign upper your trial today.  Figs: http://www.wearfigs.com enter code VIALL15 at checkout for 15% off. BetterHELP: http://www.betterhelp.com/VIALLFILES to get 10% off your first month and start living a happier life today.  Headspace: http://www.headspace.com/VIALL  for a  FREE ONE-MONTH TRIAL with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @daveholmes See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is going on everybody happy Monday evening or Tuesday morning to you all i'm nick how you doing i'm the host of the show full team today uh chrissy is back in studio hello um better than ever uh how are you doing chrissy i'm very excited i'm so excited because ali and amanda like we've talked over facetime we've talked over the phone we've talked on video screen. And now I got to like physically meet them, which is super exciting. They're still as awesome as they were on all those other devices. But like in human form, they're even better. Ali and Amanda are with us as well.

Hello, ladies. We have a fantastic recap for you. Dave Holmes joins us. For those of you who don't know who Dave is, Dave used to be a VJ on MTV back in the day. We've gotten to be friends through Twitter over the years.

I was like, God, I know you. You're cool to me. Yes. He wasn't a rock star but he was with the rock stars which made him yeah a rock star to me always with the t-shirt and the jacket yes very very uh very trendy man he was recently if you've watched the the britney spears documentary on hulu he was one of the people who commentated as someone who covered Britney Spears during that period of time.

He is an editor for Esquire magazine and an author and just an all around funny and talented guy who is gracious with his time and sat down. Also a Bachelor fan. Bachelor fan has been over the years, very detailed. And we have a really fun and wonderful recap. I think you will all enjoy. We cover a ton. We couldn't even get to it all. So much that we forgot to mention. Was it Serena who called Matt Laffy? Someone describe Matt as Laffy.

We're Laffy. I think we're Laffy together. He's Laffy. And I was like, yeah, those two people don't know who each other are. Is Laffy even a word? Like Laffy Taffy? Taffy Laffy Taffy. He's Laff those two people don't know who each other are. Is Laffy even a word? I don't know. Like Laffy Taffy? Taffy Laffy Taffy. She's like, he's Laffy.

I don't know. Called him Laffy. Laffy. Adjective, rare, informal. Tending to laugh a lot or make people laugh a lot. It is a word. So it is a word. Is that like an urban dictionary, like Webster?

It's not Webster. It's CollinsDictionary.com. What's a Colin? That's a second tier dictionary. Why does Colin have a dictionary? That's a second tier. I want Miriam Webster. It's not Webster. It's CollinsDictionary.com. What's a Colin? That's a second tier dictionary. Why does Colin have a dictionary? That's a second tier. I want Miriam Webster. Maybe I'll settle for Dictionary.com.

Who's Colin? I felt like they were really reaching. It's like trying to like, ah, I like... Where's the Laffy? My parents did that to Natalie this weekend. I thought it was a dick move. What?

We're all sitting in the house you know it's parents and parents so what do you guys like about each other like mom i find that to be i like that we can wear each other sucks yeah the first answer like what are you trying it's like asking she might as well have asked Natalie to borrow underwear. That's that intrusive of a question. You just meet someone and you're next to their son. And you're like, so what do you like about my son? Well, that's very parental protective. But my mom didn't mean it like that.

No, of course not. Your mom just met your mom just it was like three days in but what a heavy question what a heavy question don't don't do that if you're parents so what do you like about them what makes would it be okay if she had asked that question to natalie i don't know without you without you and being present it's a little better it's a little better but not as okay unless you're on the bachelor of course talking about hometowns meeting the parents yeah what are you supposed what do you like about my i don't know he dances really well he wears a great wig my

natalie did not describe me as laughy though that was that was good yeah I would have been like that's all you got huh he watches football on a giant screen by his pool I was literally great thing I was literally like mom that's so rude but also like as a parent it's like an artist like you know being like welcome to the gallery please compliment my artwork you know because it's

like my mom's like narcissistic but it's like you like about how did we do? Give us a review. He's my favorite. Is he yours? He better be. He better be.

Intrusive questions from parents. But yes, it's harder. It's protective. It's harder. Like imagine a hometown date where you have a tight shot of, say, Serena P, Serena P's mom. you have a tight shot of, say, Serena P, Serena P's mom, and then you pull back and Matt's just sitting there eating Cheetos, looking at, like, waiting for Serena P to answer that question.

That's a lot of pressure. I agree. You should not have been present, but I think it's okay for your mother to ask that question, being protective of her favorite son. She made cookies. My sugar intake has risen to dangerous levels since my mom arrived. That's so nice.

No, it's not. She's like, you know, mom comes in and she shows up. Your poor mom. She's making like. She can't do anything right. She's making like, you know, all the meals. Like she wants to make the meals I liked as a kid, which I still do. Which also, by the way, mom, I know how to make these. I'm an adult.

I've made them for Natalie. And then she comes home and brings two giant bags of red vine licorice, which I like. But once again, I am an adult. When I want licorice which i like but once again i am an adult when i want licorice i'll go buy it right my mom just like brings all the sugar home as if like mom's here i know i know i know i know a guy who has red vines i know you haven't been able to find him but i know a guy and my mom brings a bunch of sugar and i don't have the willpower to say no to it when it's in front of me i just i've been eating so much fucking sugar uh it's a mom thing to do your poor mother your poor mother coming trying to nest with you take care of her son and you're just sitting here tearing

her apart she's baking you cookies from scratch you're enough cookies where we're having conversations about how wonderful they are. And you're like sugar. Tomorrow we're going to make drumstick tort. I don't know what that means. Watch the Instagram for it's really drumstick. Is that like chicken? Are you guys familiar with better than sex dessert? Similar.

Anyway, it's really fucking good. Are you a chocolate fan? You like chocolate? I like chocolate. I've heard of death by chocolate. It's a dessert. It's a it's called drumstick short tort because it has the ingredients minus the ice cream of things that are in like a drumstick,

drumstick ice cream cone. Oh, I thought I was like, I was like, it was a chicken tort. It's a, the crust is made off of a Nella wafers. You,

you ground those up and then it's a layer of chocolate pudding and then a layer of like peanut butter has a little bit of, I think cream cheese cheese in it, which, you know, whatever you don't taste it. And then Cool Whip and then crushed like Hershey bars and then peanuts. Sounds amazing. Fucking incredible. You should hate your mom for that. I mean, listen, I'm going to eat it, but I just like. It's not.

I was like thinking chicken, which would have been like the beef In the thing on Friends Oh so you thought drumstick I thought you said drumstick I thought you said chicken in it No it's much better than that Anyway shall we get to the episode Don't forget to send in your questions At asknick at castme.com

For our Ask Nick episodes We have a fantastic episode for you tomorrow With the wonderful Maria Menounos Who is so gracious with her time and her vulnerability, talking about her health struggles and her family, just overall facing adversity and still keeping going and still excelling in life, as well as just a mindfulness and helping yourself

and the people around you. It was a fantastic episode. I'm sure you will all enjoy it. So be sure to listen to that. Other than that, let's get to Dave, shall we? Hometowns with Dave Holmes.

Oh, see what you did there. Dave, thanks so much for joining us. Nick, it's so great to see you. Likewise. Looking fantastic. A branded, for joining us. Nick, it's so great to see you. Likewise.

Looking fantastic. A branded hoodie. Yeah, I always got to rep the merch. Yeah, rep it. BobHalls.com in case anyone is interested. A scent diffuser. Yeah. These are my essential oil line, Dave. I can send you some.

Would you like to diffuse some essential oils in your home? Who are you talking to? Of course I would. you some. Would you like to diffuse some essential oils in your home? Who are you talking to? Of course I would. You want to send me? Absolutely. You know, I saw that guy and I was like, he's an essential oil diffuser guy. As soon as I saw his face, I knew it.

He was a big part of the Britney Spears documentary. Anyone. I'm a fan of Britney Spears. Dave's a fan of Britney Spears. Everyone who's a fan of Britney Spears probably wants a diffuser. I'm assuming. I don't think it's a

reason. And to do their own fashion shows in their house every day. Yeah. Oh, man. You know, it's getting harder to watch those

Instagram videos after having participated in that documentary. They're not as whimsical as I once. No. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a little more. Well, even the SNL had a skit on Britney Spears over the weekend and it was like, this is weird. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was at least the butt of the joke wasn't her. Yes. Was it the masterclass one again? Did they do masterclass again? Because the first one was a masterclass and it was genius. No. Britney Spears was interviewing cruz oh it was like it was funny come on and apologize yeah yeah she was and they had britney britney's character kind of be this like enlightened like hey stop bullying young girls like your daughters it was in a play on ted cru, blaming his daughter. But anyway, I digress. It was sponsored by The Notes app because it was a show about apologies.

It was not bad. Chloe Fineman, brilliant. It was not bad. We thank you so much for joining us. I know you've been watching the show for some time. How long have you been a fan of the franchise or the show? Well, let me tell you something. I was in at the beginning.

I think I checked out about halfway through and now the last couple years i'm back now now it's fully captivating for me but i will say this this is the first season of the bachelor that i've been into in a long time oh um typically i i am a more a bachelorette guy I like to see men in emotional distress like that kind of does it for me watching young women in emotional distress feels

can feel gross so that is a little bit why I pulled back but like you know watching men have to be vulnerable and cry and get their hearts broken or whatever it's like it feels right to me it's the fix you need it is be vulnerable and cry and get their hearts broken or whatever. It's like, it feels right to me. So I'm very much in on that. It's the fix you need. Yeah, it is. It's really nice. Yeah. It gives me, it gives me a nice

little charge. I agree with that generally. And I think it's kind of same for both sexes often, right? Like I feel more comfortable. Well, yeah, as a guy and i watch other men struggle with their emotions i you know and it's a show that it's you know you're inclined to maybe want to snark a little bit on the cast i feel far more comfortable snarking at my uh male peers rather than that's than women are on the show um so i i think i that. And I certainly, we have talked about how women seem to be more inclined to critique other women. Yeah.

And so I think that tracks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But this is, this happens to have been a very captivating season.

It has been fun. Sometimes the mean girl toxicity can get draining, but there seems to be to your point consequences for it yes the yeah a way of that how they're sticking up for for themselves and there are consequences and it's been uh it's been fun to watch yeah just doing the basic thing of like no anna no i i know that you're sorry that you called someone a prostitute walking in here but like okay okay be sorry at home get it go yeah you can't just cry and hang on anymore which is like like they're holding them accountable i saw it was a tiktok or an instagram and it was like the difference between you know the women on tv versus their instagrams and it's

true because you're you know you know you go on there you go on their instagram and it's just like i preach harmony and love and compassion and togetherness and it's the same girls were like you fucking you know like bleep and bleep and bleep and get out and like what the fuck are you doing here i can't believe you showed up five minutes late and it's uh it's been wild it's wild it's really wild how have you enjoyed matt uh matt is gorgeous um he's super hot yeah and i don't see it yeah no he's he's next level beautiful how do you not see it chrissy i just i don't i'm just not attracted to him he's just objectively hot whether he's your type or not you're just like that's a good looking guy anyway okay but anyways yeah no um beautiful can wear the shit out of

anything well especially last night we had, we had some looks. Yeah. Some big looks. I tried. I went... I tried to wear a turtleneck last night. Oh, last night? Did you? Yeah, I took it off.

I bet you could do that. No, I can. Well, I have on the show, and it's a very popular meme or gif, if they say. Really? Yeah. But I think...

No, I can wear a turtleneck i like i like a turtleneck but sometimes i i put the turtleneck on and i'm just like this not not today well as we know from matt it's uh it really wears well on him it's so well that it's like like the way i wear t-shirts he just wears turtlenecks like is that's his that's his go-to a Lot of information out there about how to be healthy especially a lot of information that's outdated Like remember back in the day that that food pyramid thing where they told us just to eat a shit ton of carbs Well, I're way wrong Way wrong. Well Noom is here and it's it's Way wrong.

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and over 60% have stuck with their goals for the last year. There's a science to getting healthier. It's called Noom. Sign up today for your Noom for trial. That's noom.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Learn how to eat again with Noom. Sign up today for your trial at Noom, N-O-O-M dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Learn how to eat again with Noom. Sign up today for your trial at Noom, N-O-O-M dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Ready to learn how to live healthier? Sign up for Noom today at N-O-O-M dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Fig-a-legs. Like I said, I like wearing figs because I go to the grocery store and people look at me like I'm a doctor. And immediately I feel like I'm respected for the first time in my life.

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who work in health care figs wants you to wear the scrubs you deserve and enjoy 15 off your first order and if you're not working on the front lines thanks someone with a pair of scrubs in in the world with uh 15 off too you know we'll help you uh be a good gift giver use code v-i-a-l-l-1-5 at checkout head to wherefigs.com that's w-e-a-r-f-i-g-s.com and enter my code vial15 that's v-i-a-l-l-1-5 at checkout get ready to love your screws i think there is a visible lack of seasoning you know what i mean like it's typically when someone is uh anchoring their own season they've already been a contestant on someone else's and they've seen what they did they've lived the experience they have seen the way the edit works and they fine-tuned it a little bit yeah i mean yeah, I you really get the sense that he is brand new to the experience.

That's a great point. That's seasoning. I like how you you said that. Yeah. No, it is. You can see him struggling with that as he goes. You can almost and you also can see you know like with heather showing up right like you can see probably the producers taking advantage of uh the innocence i guess you can say that he has about the show you're gonna get more surprises from him um you're gonna you're gonna get more reactions from him you can see him trying to figure out what he is doing and what he has to say and uh but i i also kind of see it through the lens of like matt even said like he's he's not that experienced with relationships and i think almost to that point as well you're seeing

a lack of seasoning on matt's part uh in terms of of you know what what's right for him or him figuring out the... It seems like Rachel has been his frontrunner, these other women, but he seems to even be struggling with what he likes or who really he is into. And now you've had... Fast-forwarding a little bit, we'll get into talking about that with Serena being the second woman who's left on her own. And I sometimes wonder, you saw that a lot with Colton, another person who was very open about his lack of relationship experience.

And I wonder as, you know, and Colton had a handful of women leave on their own. their own i wonder if the women as these seasons progress and we start getting into like hometowns and talking about engagement uh some of these women who are sensing from the you know these guys who don't have a lot of experience is like i i don't know if i could picture myself you know with this guy and i i wonder sometimes if if they can kind of sense that energy or the lack of experience from the person who's the bachelor i don't know maybe not but yeah you know it's it's happened twice with matt it happened a few times with colton yeah so everybody everybody's doing it for the first time which is which is a rare thing in in you know mid to late bachelor history to have somebody just brand new and then all the contestants

except for heather are brand new um okay I, and I'm sure you've answered this question 10,000 times and I'm sorry, but I can't, I have to, okay. Shoot. We do have to get to the essential like bachelor, bachelorette conundrum, which is at this time in the process, are you actually feeling the feelings that you're saying that you're feeling? This is a great question. It's an excellent question. I think about this every season as I watch. And I'm guessing you probably watched you ask this question because in this episode, it was like every conversation was about saying, I love you or falling in love.

I always get a kick out of the spectrum of love that always ends up on the bachelor. Like I'm falling, I'm falling. It's just like you could literally say it to everyone. You know, Matt says that to Bree's mom. She's like, Hmm, you get different reactions of what people interpret falling in love. And how is it just a coincidence that everyone on the same like time period is ready to just affirm their

feelings for a person and it happens every season it's a little bit of both i think because there's people who really do feel it other people are struggling as i mentioned in our last episode you look at someone like serena um the they they notice their peers right and and and then this these seasons where they're still together um they haven't really separated they're they're like fuck it we're just going to keep everyone in the same room other seasons this would be where everyone kind of separates and they can focus on their relationship and that's not happening so now you're you're you're you're evaluating your feelings for the person that the lead and then you're but it's harder to do when you see everyone else talking and expressing or even sometimes you're

just observing them like you know looking like they're in love and that you start questioning your feelings and and it's not even questioning your feelings you're questioning like you're you're questioning yourself well why am i in my head? Am I just not, you know, and you've seen this from Serena P. When you're in your head and you're questioning a relationship, especially if the person that you're dating is an attractive person, nice person, as they say, has all these, they check the boxes, as they say, then you start judging yourself. You're like, well, why do I have my walls up?

You know, why do I, maybe you just don't like them, but you start questioning yourself being like, well why do i have my walls up you know why do i maybe you just don't like them but you start questioning yourself being like well maybe it's me maybe there's a problem with me who wouldn't like this person i must be crazy and so you start convincing yourself like maybe you know it's a real tough this is a really kind of difficult position for the cast people to be in because they're they went from three weeks ago to being like this is a nice person he seems nice i guess i can see it but like there's no way i'm gonna be falling in love by the end of this to fast forward four weeks they're like fuck i mean i don't know maybe fuck it other people are just like you know so it's a there's a whole spectrum of people and depending on who they are.

And there's like an expectation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nick, what you're describing is brainwashing. Yeah. It's a,

it's a Stanford prison experiment. It is. Yeah. It's, well, it's religion. Well, part of it.

Yeah. And a part of it is brainwashing ourselves. It's a controlled environments, expectations, the fear of disappointment, all these, uh, disappointing yourself,

disappointing your peers. And probably, uh, sleep deprivation a little bit, right? A little bit. Yeah. But more that,

that's more, uh, that's more, uh, that's more, uh, just trying to film a TV show rather than like deliberate. You can't sleep.

There's also a lot of napping, lots of napping in the, in the house during the day. Okay. That probably doesn't make the final cut. That's not. Yeah. Well, unless you're, unless my season, unless, unless you're Corinne. Oh, right, right, right. I forgot about Corinne.

Also a lot of booze. So you're, you know, you're tipsy or you're a little hungover and remorseful. Some people, what you said and did on camera. Some people. Yeah. Okay. So that can, that can weaken the will a little bit. Okay.

Yeah. But you are just emotion. You're emotionally taxed. You're just, even if you're, yeah, your sleep schedule's off, everyone kind of goes in every season, especially the guys. It's always the fitness. Everyone's there. The first week in the Bachelor Mansion, everyone's just working out.

Hey, do you want to work out? Hey, let's all work out. Let's just all get buff. But by this time, everyone's like, fuck it. I don't care. You're just emotionally tired and like you can kind of tell even on this season you know there's still beautiful women but like they look they look tired they don't they're not glowing off the camera like they were week one and two they're all just a little like yeah i'm just let's just get to

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That is headspace.com slash V-I-A-L-L for a free one-month trial with access to Headspace's full library of meditation for every situation. Let me just tell you this. Ben Smith from the last season of The Bachelor, his Instagram feed is just him. It's one of two things, doing heavy squats or saying I love you to the person watching. Also now there's a puppy involved, so there's a third thing.

It's the best show on television It's quality content for sure I'm obsessed with it I can't stop I mean I follow the guy I don't know if I watch it closely as you do I'm 100% on board with Dave I'm obsessed with it

I don't care if it's in a purple colored lighting Or like sometimes a pink lighting Whatever lighting he's doing He does these like very confidently Under the chin selfie videos. Yes. That angle works. It works for him.

It doesn't work for anyone else but Ben. He's like, yeah, you guys don't have the jawline like I have, so you can't do this, but I'm going to. If I did that, I'd look like Ricky Gervais' Instagram feed. It's completely insane. And I truly can't stop. Okay. He has like the bodybuilding club, right? And there was like a nutrition club.

And I was like, you know what? New year, I'm going to join this nutrition club. I'm going to get the secret to looking like Ben Smith. And it was like 99 bucks. And I signed up and they sent an email. And the email was like vegetables. And that was it. That was it. It was 99 bucks to get like celery and stay away from sugar.

Yeah. Don't eat sugar. Like, okay. I knew that. I kind of knew that in my head. I knew that. And I have 99 fewer dollars now. and I have 99 fewer dollars now. So, great. Great. Thanks, Ben Smith. But he's putting out,

you really paid for the content. Think of it this way. You paid $99 towards the amazing content that keeps you going. Which he has been generous enough to give for free. You're absolutely right. Yes, there you go. We can call it. Where would you be without that?

No, you wouldn't know what a carrot was. Yeah, totally. You know, eat the protein the size of your fist. Okay, I literally could have. No, I was the laugh I knew this morning. I've been trying to get Ben to come over to work out, but he's a busy guy, and we're trying to make it happen. I have an outdoor gym, and I want to.

Okay, great. Well, you have my number now, so let's make it happen. we're trying to make it happen. I have an outdoor gym and I want to. Okay. Great. Well, you have my number now. So let's make it happen. Yeah, we'll make it happen. He's like, but no, seriously, I need to meet Ben. He's my hero. And get a refund.

I need something from him. No, no, I love you. I love you, but also I could have read that at the grocery store. Vegetables. Also give me like 40 of my dollars back. I'm going to govern that. you but also i love you but also i could have read that at the grocery store in the vegetable section also give me like 40 of my dollars back i've governed that all right well hometowns here we are here we go hometowns do you have uh of the four women michelle we got michelle we got brie we got serena and we got rachel Who have you been enjoying this season and why? Well, I'll tell you, this has been, okay.

One thing that happens typically with this show is that once you get to the hometowns, it is the four people who have kind of played the game the best, but that also means that they have flown a little bit under the radar. Right. So their their airtime has been nice dates with him. Yep. Which is good for them. But it's also when I tend to look at my phone. Right. Yes. So so you end up with when I like at the end of last episode when it was like, oh, these are the four women. I was like, these are also the four women I remember the least.

That's interesting. That's often true. You look up, you're just like, I watch it the same way. I have to force myself to go back and rewatch many of the one on one dates to talk about it but I often check out because it's a lot of the same beats and the same notes early on of like there's a story involved and there's some like why are we compatible and why do I relate to you it's usually not always but often is the case sometimes you get some people who are both compelling and play into either the drama, whether they're a part of the drama or they are at least having a take on the drama. But most often the case,

at least two or the three front runners are people, as you say, glide, right? They, they glide through, they are good looking, likable and quiet.

And avoid the drama. And avoid the drama. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So everyone was, um,

it was great. I have a faint memory of Serena P doing, like, the sex yoga and being like, I don't, I was not happy doing the sex yoga. That was last week, Dave. That was last week. So that I like. I like when somebody can just say, like, that was weird and I wish we hadn't done it. That takes some gumption. Yes, it does. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, I mean, I like Brie. I like Brie a lot. And although, again, I felt like, oh, here's Michelle who we're meeting for the first time tonight. But I enjoyed her. who we're meeting for the first time tonight.

But I enjoyed her. Rachel, I keep hearing, is the frontrunner, and she's very pretty and everything. And they seem to get along, but I can't say that she's my favorite. She's not my favorite. No, I get it. But she appears to be the favorite.

Yeah, and it appears, and again, this is only based off of what we see, and I say it snarkingly, but also i understand because i've been there is matt's the most physically attracted to her and in that world looks matter a ton because you have very little to go on what he he doesn't he is he is he he's very sure how he feels about these women physically because he has eyes and and for him they work and that's great but like all the other stuff that he went in conversation he's like i think we have a lot in common i guess there's a story uh we've we've spent you know 146 minutes together so i'm just gonna trust my gut on this but I see my eyes tell me I'm very physically attracted.

There's a very physical chemistry, and it seems like for Rachel that's the driving factor based off the conversations. There's an ease and a comfort and an obvious attraction, and she is gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah, and they look great together. But yeah, but I can't say,

I don't i don't have a read on her personality oh brie in the intro said something really interesting um that i'm curious about with you as well um she's like brie it was like i feel the most myself around my family and i was like oh i don't i mean i love my family but like i don't think i feel the most myself around them and i don't't, I don't know if that is that, does that resonate with you at all? Yeah, no, I, uh, I, well for me, cause I have a lot of siblings. I love all my siblings equally. There's a love, there's a true love.

There's a loyalty. I definitely don't like them equally. Right. Like, I don't, I don't like spending time with some of them you know like it's hard like i love them because we're related in blood but like having a whole meal of food with him like and just being forced to talk would be a very challenging experience i think for both of us for you know in some relationships and so yeah i and how can you possibly be yourself in, in that environment? Um, but also with family, because you love them, I don't give a shit. So I am myself,

regardless of what they might think. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. But I, I don't necessarily don't, they don't, um, bring out my, yeah, they don't necessarily, not all of them bring out the best in me to your point yeah there you go yeah uh but but i think for some people it is the case but i that's great i'm thrilled i will i hear it i'm like wow okay good for you but i think to your point there's probably a few lies in the seasons we've seen because everyone who goes on the show for not everyone most people unless it's a dramatic story are all like love my family i don't know what i'd do without my family my family is my rock and my foundation yeah dean was really like the first one that was like

my family's like yeah i hacked yeah dean on on rachel's season was kind of like you know i could do without him yeah know, it's my friends for me. It's like the first one. Take them or leave them. Michelle's hometown. I like how the show is adjusting to the new normal, bringing the families in and trying to make it seem a little bit like a hometown. What seems so simple, I was like, oh, what a great idea to have her class

zoom in, like a Zoom class. You're getting a little bit of like the real world, the present real world experience and what teachers are having to do or had to do while teaching through zoom classes. I thought it was really cute. I actually, I actually, I was quite moved by that. It was, you know, you have all these like playful, fun question. You know, Matt has this classic like awkward laugh you know when matt's really uncomfortable he just kind of has this big joyful laugh but the but the student at the end who shared the note that michelle wrote her uh about like hey you got a big test today i believe in you i i was i got a little choked up i was like see michelle is an absolute rock star what a gem i don't think i was I got a little choked up I was like same Michelle is an absolute rock star

what a gem I don't think I've ever got a note from a teacher telling me they believed in me and I just think to myself how how powerful that is for a teacher to do to a a young student to just say I believe in you that student will remember that forever. Can I tell you a story? So when I was in, I didn't wait for a yes, I just started telling a story. No, it was, yeah. When I was in fourth grade, I wrote like a short story for, I don't even know if it was an assignment

or if I just wanted to or whatever. And I gave it to my teacher, Mrs. Mannion, and she read it and I got like, whatever, a good, a star or whatever and uh and i gave it to my teacher mrs manion and uh and she read it and uh and i got like whatever a good a star or whatever but she said um you have a talent for this and i expect to uh to see your name in the new yorker someday and i was like that's what i'm gonna do like in my i wasn't a particularly good student in any other way i wasn't an athlete i wasn't like i didn't really have an identity when it came to school. But in that moment I was like, whether she meant it or not,

this woman has indicated that she sees that I am a writer. And so like that, as I've, you know, done all kinds of crazy things in my career, that has always been a North star for really right yeah so oh yeah so and then you know 10 or so years ago my focus did shift to writing and then you know five years ago i i got my book published and and i and i um one of my when i was doing my little tour i stopped in st louis where i grew up and i invited her and she came and and it was like it truly was she didn't remember having written it but i never forgot it and it's like it truly was. She didn't remember having written it, but I never forgot it. And it's like it's that that kind of thing is really important.

Yeah. If you're a teacher out there, that's a 15 seconds to write something because it will affect it. That's a great story. It endeared me to Michelle even more. She's always been someone I've really enjoyed watching. And it's also really kind of pissed me off that she quote unquote showed up late because clearly they just for a tv purpose held on like you know all the women who showed up late other than heather were there the whole time i mean they were always i'm assuming

gonna show up late it was talked about that with her parents didn't they yeah she mentioned you know she just mentioned that was a late arrival, so to speak. I was here the whole time. So they just had her in a different area of the chateau? Yeah, I mean, it's fine. On some benefit, like, hey, that's a win. As someone who has showed up late to a season, you

get to skip all the stupid group dates that have nothing to do with getting to know the person you want to get to know. And it has no value. And it's actually torturous. And Michelle was fast-tracked, so to speak, because she showed up the next day. She gets a what I want.

And all of a sudden she's kind of ahead of emotionally than many of the other women who had to box or paintball or whatever the shit they had to do. They're just like, I don't understand. Why am I here? You know, like, but she, she tested out. It was like advanced placement. Yeah, it truly was.

Right in your level. Can we talk about the matching cornflower outfits? We can, which I was surprised because they know that that's not an accident, I guess is what I'm saying. I also love that you both know corn flour. Well, I didn't know it was called corn flour, but I knew it was matching. But when I said it, you knew what I meant. Yeah.

I love that. Yeah. That was definitely a choice because there is a wardrobe department that looks at these people before they get out on camera. Well, Matt has his stylist right and they've kind of pre-selected pieces throughout the season before the season starts but things like before these types of dates especially one-on-one dates or hometowns there's a little like what is our lady wearing today kind of thing and since the lead has an abundant choices of options, they try to.

Well, they just ask. Now, I don't know what they're maybe they are trying to match. Now, personally, I fucking love love matching. Dressing up the same way that my girlfriend does. I think it's funny. I think it's hysterical lately because we recently just kind of told people. Well, first we got outed in terms of our relationship then we're like fuck it yeah we're dating and since then uh paparazzi decided to show up outside of my house house and there's some cool photos of me taking out the garbage so and on a walk so

that's cool uh and then it was like fuck it and since then, there's just places, you know, like if you go to Jones, there's a pub, you know, like we'll deliberately dress up and have matching shoes. And it's fun. I think it's funny. You go to Jones? Yeah. Jones on 3rd or Jones by the Formosa? I go to, well, both. Jones on actual 3rd.

But I live close to the one. But then there's J-O-N-E-S, the restaurant, which is probably close because there's no outdoor space there. Yeah. Jones on actual third. But I live close to the one. But then there's J-O-N-E-S, the restaurant, which is probably close because there's no outdoor space there. Yeah, Jones on third. Jones on third. Jones on third. Yeah. BLT, avocado.

I think it's, yes. Fantastic. Yeah. I think it's hysterical to dress up. Like when you're doing chores, to be so outrageous because people think that, I don't know what they think. Maybe she made me dress up like her or vice versa. I think it's hysterical.

Well, that, okay, it is sort of cute for you because you are heterosexual. I have a boyfriend who has pretty much the exact same taste. So nine times out of 10 when we go out, if in the times when we could go out, we will stop steps before the front door and look at each other and go god damn it every day the same not every day but like sometimes we're like going out to meet friends

and it's like we cannot dress the same i see i i see how that's a problem i do it ironically for for attention uh for us it's just like we're becoming the same person and it makes me makes me crazy yeah no i can get. So somebody has to go and change. But to your point, they did this. And I spent a good five minutes thinking about this while watching it. It was like, why? Is it because they look cute together? There was a conscious choice.

It wasn't an accident. Maybe they just kind of mail it in. But they always ask, like, what is our lady wearing today? And then Matt or whatever lead will will kind of decide. So they're like, hey, she's wearing this. And maybe they're like, I have we have literally what's it called again? The color, Dave? Cornflower.

We we also have a cornflower shirt. Let's let's go get let's go get look cute together. Maybe that must have been the choice that must've, it must've been an active choice. It worked. It worked. I also was it's, it's a really interesting thing. Cause these were, these were, let's say eight year olds, right? Yeah. Eight ish. So they're asking questions that I think they really wanted to know the answer to that are legitimately confusing like a young lady named leona asked is that your boyfriend yeah right because kids just kind of want to understand yes like oh you're holding hands with a boy is that

your boyfriend the idea of this show and like a person dating 48 women or whatever it was this season, right. Is, is a pretty sophisticated concept for a child. And I'm just wondering how much of it they were told, how much they, they took in. If they're even going to know what fantasy suites is and what that entails. It just seems like a very grown-up conversation and we're we talk so much in our culture about like what are we going to tell the kids and it's like this is a real one where it's like what are we going to tell the kids but the questions what

is this show to a child the kids yeah the kids questions were generally like what you would ask like you're like if they were at home and like with their families like oh are you gonna kiss her are you gonna do this yeah but there were some very specific bachelor questions that might have been like hey maybe you maybe ask this and that's a good point they were definitely scripted but i think they also were like curious about well yeah that's an interesting point they were probably like hey maybe ask this the kids probably like what the fuck am i like are you gonna get like what do you mean how many girlfriends my parents told me you're not like what the fuck am i like are you gonna get like what do you mean how many girlfriends my parents told me you're not like what you know yeah it's they're gonna get a quick education yeah unbeknownst to the producers they maybe created some like preemptive fuck boys down

there we're like they i don't know someone someone told me like how many girlfriends i must be able to have a lot at the same time. No problem. And unfortunately. So now Billy on the playground is going with like six girls. I have seven girlfriends. It's fine. I can fit four on the tire swing at once. Matt did it.

Why can't I? There was a young gentleman named Tyler who seemed very poised. I was like, okay, I like this kid. You know, he took a moment before he asked his question at the end when, uh, when Michelle was like, what do we, what do we think of Matt? Everyone, you know, gave a thumbs up or whatever he liked. He held back for a minute and considered it and then eventually gave a thumbs up. I appreciate the poise of a young Tyler. Matt, uh, Matt did something I really appreciated, which I think is funny. And I don't know if it comes from, don't know matt's um how many like kids he's been around

uh growing up you know like does he have a lot of nieces and nephews or friends have a lot of babies and matt kind of reads as someone who hasn't been around a ton because i always love it when adults like give very adult answers to kids and Matt did that a couple times when he was laughing and cute but like when it came to bachelor questions because he didn't want to give anything away it was like hot I think it was when he asked if you were in love with Michelle or how many kids and he gave a very a very earnest very direct like adult like answer to a bunch of kids was like well we'll see where it goes and it was just like the way he said it i kind of chuckled i don't know if anyone else picked that up but i thought

it was kind of funny i think it's always funny when you talk to children like adults yeah um and then expect him to like get on your level it's it's kind of hilarious but there is also no like child way no to express what's going yeah it's like you know well today but like tomorrow i am having a date with another woman we'll see where that goes yeah um but your teacher's up there yeah um but all in all really cute i i liked it that it was an enjoyable moment uh i liked it then we get to meet michelle's parents they seem lovely i'm a huge fan of michelle's dad i feel like michelle's dad is someone i i i feel like he's a really good storyteller i don't know why i feel like he has a lot of stories yeah and if i got to meet michelle's

dad we'd crack a beer and he'd be like let me tell you a story i'd be like great and like four hours later i'd just be like you know with my hands up like this and he'd be like let me tell you a story i'd be like great and like four hours later i'd just be like you know with my hands up like this and he would just i just i'm certain that michelle's dad's a good storyteller i don't know yeah yeah yeah i took to him immediately emotionally open yeah emotionally open when when all the uh when they all hugged each other i i felt i felt a pang of of jealousy you know what i mean your folks are in town they've had it yeah right can are you hugging can you what's your distance policy well uh my parents uh recently had the had the corona a couple months ago uh i i'm pretty sure i had it

early on i have no idea so yeah i So, yeah, I'm hugging the parents. I'm hugging the parents. Okay. But, yeah, there's some hugging. And, yeah, they seem like they're in love, the family, with each other, Michelle's family. Yeah. Really great family. Interesting.

I don't know if you picked up on this. I know we've had these one-on-ones, but it seems like it's like fast forward rachel being the front runner rachel hasn't been in love uh according to her has very limited dating experience herself and this this episode we've been without a lot of detail michelle brie and serena all seem to have really hard heartbreaks. All of them were just like, yes, that shit happened to me. I don't know if I can do this. And sure as shit, if this season plays out the way it's showing us, Matt's going to pick the only girl who has no experience when it comes to being in love or relationships.

And that's fine. That happens. You know, but like there is something to be said about i feel way more comfortable with people that have felt heartbreak before absolutely um to me it's a very scary feeling to be like yeah you don't you you don't it's all new to you huh this whole like not getting what you wanted being disappointed disappointed and, and, and, and, and, and really, and really valuing what you have in a way that's beyond this all feels great in the honeymoon phase. And that's as, and Rachel hasn't by her own admission. And yet these other three women, regardless of their age has you, the way they talked

without the detail, that was all like their families knew about it. They, they, they all kind of went through something with their daughters and these experience and they they probably learned the storm together. Yeah. And every single one of them. But Rachel and we didn't get a ton of detail, though. I was a bum to see not get those details, but they they, the way they all talked about it, starting with Michelle, is that they all felt some real pain. And it was a moment in their lives that made them who they are today.

Like you could tell there were some real character moments for them in these moments of heartbreak. Yeah. So will Matt be Rachel's first major heartbreak? I mean, it could, you know, maybe maybe they'll maybe she will win and maybe they will get married and it'll be Tristan and Ryan all over again. Maybe or maybe not or or or maybe not. Or Michelle and Matt will be Tristan and Ryan all over again.

Ryan all over again. It, well, yeah, I mean, if I, and I apologize to Matt up front because as someone who's been as Matt shoes, there's nothing that frustrated me more than people telling me who they

think I should pick for myself. You know, it's like, yeah, tell me more about me. Like, you know, it's a TV show.

You're watching TV, but we'll play the game. Yeah. It seems like Matt and Rachel, I'm sorry, Matt, Matt and Michelle, like if those, if they ended up together, Yeah, it seems like Matt and Rachel, I'm sorry, Matt and Michelle,

like if they ended up together, have the best chance of making this work. Like it just, they, like the way I think, Michelle commands a certain respect from Matt that I don't know if the other women are able to get from. And a maturity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

There's just like, I think it's a good pairing. Yeah. I don't know. But, uh, and, and,

and, and Michelle's very into Matt and, uh, I'm already feeling the heartbreak already. Yeah. Good TV though. And she's gorgeous. They're all gorgeous.

They're all wonderful. They're all wonderful Second hometown Brie Was it Rachel Rachel showing up in The Dick Dastardly and Muttley's car From the Laugh Olympics I'm dating myself with that reference But it's fully a cartoon villain car

Yeah I guess so. And apparently Pennsylvania, there must be some sort of... Vintage car lot outside Nebicola. I mean, they literally had a date there. Did Matt have a date with... Who did he have his... He had his 101 dinner portion.

Was it Rachel? It was literally in an antique car museum, the dinner portion for this season. Right? So they're pulling cars. Even hearing you say that, I just want to start playing words with friends on my phone. That probably happened, and I missed it. Yes.

While watching it. So they're clearly utilizing those cars. So I thought about this, too, because Rachel takes Matt skydiving. I thought about this too, because Rachel takes Matt skydiving. To me, this felt like you're his front runner. The producer's throwing her a bone because clearly Rachel, while game for skydiving, it wasn't like I'm a big fucking sky. Like because hometowns is usually about what you love, what you're into. Something about like brings you home.

And she's like, we're going skyddiving have they done skydiving before they don't like jump bungee jumping i don't think they've done i mean the insurance on that that's a bit insane this is like a production standpoint i was watching it like it's a what a bummer for that skydiving company to be like have rachel fall on her face oh my god i and by the way i mean they only showed him for a few frames but the guy who was attached to her back was an like a giant child like an adult baby yeah i don't know if you saw his face but he was fully like a stretched out seven year i i've scout i sky dove once it's a great experience i recommend it to everyone however uh and again who knows but my my experience my experience, my one time they, the, all the other guys you're strapped to, they all are adult children. Like it's,

it's, it's, it's a different breed of person. And I love it when they feel like, who's ready to go to 12,000 feet. Yeah. Like that's the type of person who's like, you know, you hired to go skydiving, like these adrenaline junk person who's like, you know, you hired to go skydiving like these adrenaline junkies who are like. That's like an adrenaline guy, right? Yeah. Well, that's my to my point is like this was this was a bone. I feel like thrown by producers being like, hey, there's a skydiving company. This is available there in the area. We can do this.

Who should we have do it to? they probably like hey rachel what do you think uh about this because all of these hometown dates especially now because they can't go to their hometowns there's a lot of conversations around what would you do in your hometown what can we do here you know like we saw it a lot on on tasia season where like you know zach did the whole like you know fake tour around new york and and yeah yeah but like with rachel it's like we're going skydiving and it wasn't like rachel's like i'm super into this something that would surprise most people about me i'm an adrenaline junkie we're going skydiving but because matt is an adrenaline donkey clearly he's going to be excited about this he he was

going to be all into this this was very exciting to him and she's just like yeah i mean we can do it yeah hey um from the in the town i'm from we have the sky so let's uh let's dive up in it we have altitude yeah let's jump out of a plane she did say um if i die i'm glad i'm dying with you which is that's yeah that's a that's a lot to put on someone yeah i also I also don't believe it. That is a quote from someone who's never had their heart broken. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It really is.

Yeah. Because anyone else has had their heart broken, they're like, no, you're not worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And then she is literally slammed into the earth. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was totally Rachel's fault. Because she put her feet back instead of feet out. When you skydive, you saw Matt's, you saw how Matt fell.

They tell you to sit in an L. Yeah. Right. And they do that because you got, you got four feet, you got four legs coming down and the two legs in front don't know what they're doing. Right. And you're just supposed to like sit. You're supposed to just glide and land on your butt. But people's instincts are to put their feet down. So basically what Rachel did in the last second is she put her feet down and it's the equivalent of like someone You know riding a bike and putting a broomstick in your front wheel because like her her her foot Her leg hit the ground and you had momentum and that made her fall right on her face Had she sat up on her butt they would have landed just like that did not to put like but you know in fairness

It wasn't the skydiving company who fucked up i'm pretty sure it was totally 100 rachel's fault but hey that's the risk you have it was her yeah no you gotta you gotta be careful on those landings we're very glad that she's okay i wondered myself was this a did they allow matt to have a hero shot because i can't imagine matt while strapped in was the first one to make it to r to make sure she wasn't paralyzed. Right. Because it looked like Matt was the first to come to her. Right?

I can't imagine. Surely there was a medic. Surely there was a medic and other people like, hey, stand away. Are you okay? But I feel like Matt got a nice hero shot there being the first one coming. But there was a medic there as well. I remember seeing it. There was, but the medic was there after Matt had arrived.

Yeah, after he ran with his Baywatch run. And he ran over and rolled her over. And I'm like, no way. No way. I love this behind-the-scenes wisdom. It must have been. I don't know for sure. But if that's not the case, then the paramedics they have on site are also playing words with friends.

If you're in a production and you're doing skydiving and there's not a medic sitting right there, you're breaking so many laws. They're all like, that was their nightmare. That was their literal nightmare because like yeah she could have like she's about to meet her parents yeah i mean thank god she it looked worse than it was and maybe she had some production paramedics well yeah but because if if rachel was more seriously hurt she could have had some incredibly seriously serious serious bruising that wasn't covered by

makeup and then you bring this girl home whose parents are already nervous. They haven't seen their daughter in a month. And she comes in and her half her face is bruised or she's got stitches or God knows what. Yeah, that that's a nightmare for those paramedics been doing anyway. Like somebody roll off a couch. But you know what? They threw him at a bone. Matt is a very attentive man.

He handled it. He handled it as best he could. So did she. She was a good sport. We love to see it. Skydiving is totally surreal. And when you hit the ground, you're in a different place. And you're right.

Let's throw Rachel a bone for playing it off. A lot of people could have made that whole moment just very much about them and dramatized the experience, but it sounds like she was like, hey, I'm okay. It's okay. Can we talk about a Victoria in that situation? I think it would have been She would own the Chateau. Had the Queen fell on her face, I think, yes, she would have handled it much differently than Rachel. She would own Disney. meet rachel's parents uh we do rachel's parents are playing the role as as every season we have the very skeptical parents the very reluctant parents it makes a lot of sense too because parents do know their kids the best they can read their kids.

And I think my guess is Rachel came in very starry eyed and they probably are seeing their daughter kind of like, oh, she really likes this guy. Yeah, she's all in. They see that their daughter's all in. And now, as any parent would do, you're just like, wait like wait shit my daughter just didn't go on a tv show this wait what happens that's what like my parents when they went they went to my first hometown my parents are not very they're not the parents that like watch the season and we're experts like they're not delusional like they're here on planet earth they had heard of the bachelor but they didn't know much you know they're not helical you know my parents were unique because they had so many younger kids that their adult son they weren't like all up in their business so

when they came to my hometown there was a lot of like so what is this what is going on what is this show what are the expectations and And they, you know, producers are like, well, you know, they're narrowing it down. And at the end, this will happen. And they're like, what? This is what my son is involved in. And there's like a real sense of panic and urgency and fear. Now, I don't know how much, you know, Rachel's dad, Rachel's dad does not look like he watches The Bachelor at all. Rachel's mom for sure maybe but like rachel's dad does not look like he's been you know tuning in every monday at 8 p.m no um and so he will he will use a straw with a highball glass which i thought was like it was he wearing a lip tint that he didn't want to have come off on the class what was going

on there like he just pulled the drink up and i was like i this is a choice that's why we have dave on for the attention and detail that i i failed to pick up me either it was it just it hit me strange but yeah but getting back to what you said before about being on the show it and at this stage in the process you are a little brainwashed by the process right you're a little bit you're a little bit in you're a little bit starry-eyed you're you know you don't know why you're behaving the way that you're behaving your parents in some ways know you better than anyone else so it must be a little bit like going to visit your kid in la and she's you know she's

taking a few Scientology classes yeah and there's a slightly different look right and you're like I don't have her ever had a shaved it's purple now these are all fine things and you're like I love you no matter what but like there's been some drastic but you've made some drastic you've you've changed course yeah I'm just trying to get on your level right yes that's that's a pretty good analogy in terms of what parents are experiencing so the Bachelor in Scientology you get so you Rachel's parents are playing the role of like you you hear her dad say over and over like it I don't know six weeks man like okay and rachel's mom yeah he's

great but like nothing nothing's wrong with him and i i get it like i i get her i my guess is and you make a good point i didn't even think about that really until now is if you are worried that your kid is being say brainwashed or or at least being drastically influenced by the environment they are in you're just trying to get them to see reality right or you just want to check in and maybe you know it's like are you are you sucked in or are is this really my daughter i'm talking to because yeah you know, it's like, are you, are you sucked in or are, is this really my daughter I'm talking to? Because yeah. Blink if you, if you need my help. Yeah. It's like, yeah. And so there's a little bit of like, he has, you know, you almost as a parent, I would assume you'd want to see some like healthy, like Matt's great. We're in love. Listen, we fight about this and we've worked

through it and there's the problems we have. And I don't love it that he does this, but, you know, he doesn't love it that I do that. Like, you know what you would you would hope for any couple that's ready to get proposed. And clearly that's just not possible in that world. So, you know, Rachel's mom is is is looking for some realism when talking to her daughter about what's great about this guy. She says she's totally in love with and uh that's that's hard to get in that world do you think it's weird that she was so she was so sidetracked with like matt asking her dad for permission when her parents were clearly like trying to be like why do you like this guy and she's like i all she was focused on was him

asking for permission am i do i do i find that weird i guess but i'm just so that's that's pretty common right i like i love i was personally it's like she was blinded by it like she wasn't like into like what her parents were saying she was just like i just want to know if he asked you i was too busy busy being triggered by that moment as someone who has been the bachelor clearly the show has evolved while slow sometimes to be progressive there's obviously a lot of talk out there of like you know why are guys needing to ask father's permission as if they are like some sort of property like back in the day in terms of like where you would negotiate and be like hey so like i like that because just three or four years ago that was still kind of a beat of the show of the bachelor asking the

parents permission and then i had something i fucking fought real hard on tooth and nail and yet matt was able to be like you know i'm the type of guy who i don't want to like just do this to ask and have it be a beat and i'm just like i was i was very triggered yeah personally about the fights I did you have to did you have to do that four times uh I I did it in my own way but those were they were those were beats they really wanted to capture with all parents and uh it was it was something that there were a lot of fights uh between myself and production on and and like of pushing back that i i was not comfortable with uh because that was just kind of the show and i listen when you're not thinking about kind of the sexism part of it right they're they're just like we can't give anything away that's just part of the show

you know it's it's uh and now they've seemed to just kind of not that make that part of the show they've taken that part out but to your point point, Chrissy, it was important to Rachel. And because she said, I just kind of wish Matt would have asked my parents. Then it become Rachel made it a part of the show. Rachel brought it back because it was apparently important to Rachel. And that is I want the guy I get engaged to to check in with my dad you know and and Matt didn't which I love that Matt did it but Rachel wishes he did and you're right why what's the point like aren't there more important conversations but Rachel's never been in love so

she's just basing this off of like rom-coms and uh and friends and and sitcoms that we've all seen, which, again, no criticism of Rachel. Yeah, that's what we all do. It's what we've done. And until you are in love and you start focusing on the shit that you didn't realize mattered but you know matters, and then you realize, like, the shit I used to care about, that doesn't mean anything.

Rachel just hasn't experienced that yet yeah she is she is quite young um i i should okay so there's a thing that happens i got some years on you i'm turning 50 this year well happy birthday looking great i would kill i'd kill for that hair at 50 thank you dave thank you very much please you're you're come on anyway um there's a thing that happens where you your whole life like rock stars or olympic athletes or whatever are older than you right so like your whole childhood you know you watch the olympics you turn around to be whatever everyone's older than you and then and then there's a shift where it's like suddenly they're your age yeah which is weird like everyone everyone's like your age and like oh that's strange and then in the blink of an eye

they're younger they're all younger and like the bands you like are like suddenly 10 years younger and you you watch the olympics and you're like these are children and i am the age of the coach. Yeah. And then- Of the Hall of Famer. Yes, exactly. Or like, or the, you know, the musicians who are doing like the, you know, tribute to Bo Diddley on the grandstand that you go up and get a snack during. It's like, those are the people you listen to. And then it's like,

and then those people are way younger. I say this because it happens very quick. And like when The Bachelor started, the contestants were generally in my age group, right? And then they were younger. And then last night watching Rachel's dad, I was like, I bet Rachel's dad is three years younger than I am. And that shit happens in the blink of an eye.

It's crazy. So just as you're a strapping 40-year-old, just buckle in for that experience. Because it will happen before you know it. It's happening. You won't notice it happening, and then it will have happened. Yeah. Also, all of this is taking place i'm sorry everything with rachel's family is taking place in in the center of a truly staggering number of I don't understand how, why every decorating accent is a lamp, but it's wild.

Go back and look. Like every shot. I'm going to have to. Oh my God. There's a full Celine Dion video of lamps and candles in every shot. That's fully the art department. They definitely staged that before. But it was just like the direction is lamps.

Yeah. Not lamps. We're going lamps here. Set the mood. Yeah. I mean, we'll close out Rachel's hometown, but there definitely was, I was almost kind of surprised. And maybe we'll get to see that FaceTime video with rachel's dad if rachel ends

up being matt's pick but uh there wasn't a lot of closure there like sometimes they'll have this like i don't know if you'll want you to marry my daughter and they add right before they go they're like hey you're fine it's cool i was just fucking with you i just want to wanted to test your character yeah but not with rachel's parents it was kind of like this reluctant like all right well don't fuck up my daughter you know like you know there's a that felt real but uh so but i only pointed out because they're we they might have they might be having us hang on to that tension yeah for that future facetime call with matt that will inevitably be like sure of course you know you seem like a good guy and well also to make her have to make it was also used so that she would feel like she wanted it

for security right so to her if he had asked that then she was the important one yeah so that is what made her start triggering being like oh my god there are other people here plant those seeds of doubt like giving brie the last uh last rose, even though there were still three roses. Speaking of Bree, we go to her hometown, and I'm a big fan. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Was it Rachel or Bree where Matt had the Glen Plaid car coat?

Because that, too, was a look and a half. I don't remember. It was like a heavy tweed. It was gorgeous. Anyway, sorry. The looks last night were... He's only had one fashion miss for me, and that was the black and red, like,

Hunter Paul Bunyan Muppet jacket. Like, because it was furry. And I was like, why did they put him in a Muppet jacket? But I digress. Yeah, I don't remember that, but he had a miss for me last night, which is that was when Sarah went to. If you're not pushing your limits, then you're not

reaching your full potential. Muppet should be a hard pass for everybody. No, but I'm just saying you have to see how far you can go. That was it for Matt, but if you're not doing that, you never reach your full potential. Just say no to looking like a Muppet.

You have to go for it sometimes and be like, you know what? Pull it back, pull it back. That's as far as we can go. Would you ever wear a jacket that would make you look like a Muppet? No. Cause you would be like,

I'm smart, but I would be willing to try it just to see if I could pull it off. Because if I can, then good on me. That's fair. Think of all the fashion areas that open up to you. Exactly. You have to be willing to go there to see if you can do it.

Brie is wonderful. We get to see Brie. You know, she's still we're the whole Brie's hometown is about, hey, this still bothers me about my personal life. And yeah, I know we connect on that. But, you you know sometimes people like maybe it's almost as if brie was projecting like i think she even mentioned this early on her first date is that like brie values family it's close her mom's close to her but she kind of

feels alone now with her mom like having a new baby and her mom has this life and and breathe and mentioned that the people she dates and friends with she kind of counts on them to get that sense of normalcy that she finds with family so this is still a concern for brie she voices this concern to matt we don't really know how much of them is it a concern for matt so it seems to be a projection from brie in terms of like i can't do this but in reality maybe Brie is missing something for Matt because Matt she's worried that Matt can't do this for her I don't know just just kind of psychoanalyzing Brie's concern for for Matt cuz Matt hasn't brought it up he's like yeah we relate to this but I don't know I don't know if this is the reason

why it might not pick you but Brie seems to, it comes up in Bree's ITMs or her kind of voiceover. So also maybe she's just thinking of something to say because it's the bachelor. Yeah, exactly. So I will say we had to watch this. No fewer than eight times to figure out who was who and, and how it all fit together because it was Brie and her best friend Brie.

Brie. You know that Spider-Man meme that's out there where Spider-Man's pointing at each other? And Brie and her friend Brie were like, okay, you're Brie. You're beautiful. We're definitely going to be – they were either going to be best friends or enemies. There was no in between. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, the Bries have to unite or it's chaos. But then it's breeze mom and her little sister who is a newborn yes yes which again talk about like you have this woman has got to be 10 years younger than me. I wasn't entirely sure, I'll be honest, who was Brie's friend and who was Brie's sister in the first 10 seconds of the day. I'm pretty sure that's Brie's mom, and I got it right, but I held

out for my own embarrassment to just wait and see. Because her friend could be her sister. 100%. They look alike or my best friend or her mom her mom looks great like her mom is a young woman yeah yes but so yeah i mean i think we could identify the mom which leaves other brie and a newborn so she's like i i'm it's my best friend and my little sister and the best friend a little bit looks like like you would buy her as her sister so there was truly a moment of like is

this woman's best friend an infant like what am i not understanding could you imagine that would be fucking great this is my best friend i listen she friend. Listen, if she doesn't like you, I don't know if this can work out. Exactly. If she cries as soon as you touch her, it's over. You bring out a six-month-old. Yeah, you can't ask her questions right now. Who immediately shits her pants when you hold her. She's like, sorry.

Sorry, got to go. I don't think you make her nervous. Change her diaper and we'll talk. Yeah, and then just adding the same name to it, it was fully who's on first. We really had to keep rewinding. But I think I understand what's happening now, I think. I like Brie.

Her mom pointed out that she is a realist. I would go so far as to say that Brie has a bit of skeptic in her, which I appreciate, or not so much a skeptic, but when Matt and Brie were on their daytime date and they're going through the mud in a Jeep and Matt gave her this kind of benign compliment, like, you're really good at this. And most people would be like, thanks. But Brie, I really appreciate it because breeze like me i would go you think really like what do you mean

i'm driving you know like he gave her such like a you know he was just being nice because matt is clearly a nice guy and matt knows how to say nice things and he knows how to compliment i really love i really in that moment i really appreciated Brie because she's like, that's a useless compliment. I have no idea how sincere that is. I'm simply just driving a car. So I'm going to question your compliment. And I,

I really appreciated that. Now you can also, it's also a sign that Brie has been through life. She, people have disappointed her in the past. Apparently this ex-boyfriend of her. So like useless compliments don't work on her. I feel so dumb because I've never analyzed that at all.

Oh, I picked up on that right away. I'm like, Bree. What a great detail that I did not pick up on. Smart cookie. She was just like, don't save that bullshit for Rachel. That doesn't work on me. And what a nightmare to be followed around by cameras and to have a microphone on to catch all of the ridiculous bullshit that you say in any given day oh yeah you just say to

have something to say i'm pretty sure brie's friends if they listen to this podcast will will know that i have brie pegged as someone who you can't easily compliment her. She, you have to really, you have to really mean it. And she has to think that of herself, you know, but anyways, but you're also right.

And wisdom that we're getting from Nick file. And anytime you're right, that people are like with Matt kissing with his eyes open, put a camera on yourself for 24 hours and just live your life and go back and watch it you will be horrified yeah anyway how are you with watching yourself nick i've gotten used to it i mean i used to back in the day i was like anyone else like and i would record like uh like you know back in the day where you would actually take the time to be like hey you've reached nick i'm no longer at my i'm not myself it'd be like oh god do i sound like I'm fine. I mean, a podcast I've been on TV, but it was,

uh, I had to get used to it. I had to like become indifferent towards it, but it was hard. It was hard. Yeah. Now you put wigs and dresses on. No,

it's just like, I am who I am. You know, you're just who you are. I love it. Um, building an empire. Bree is,

uh, Bree is, uh, afraid to tell Matt. And I, I really liked this moment because it's felt really sincere She I related to Brie also in this moment again being the skeptic being the realist being the person who is all those things Truly, but also found herself on The Bachelor, which is a world that's not based in reality or

Grounded thinking and yet Brie sincerely likes Matt.'s how i kind of felt about andy where you're just like okay i don't know i'm gonna be open to it and you're just like fuck i like you and you feel yourself having these real feelings eat while every part of you is telling you this is a terrible idea like this is not smart this goes against everything brie has told herself everything she's ever everything that she has developed over the years to protect herself, to like make sure she's making grounded and good decisions.

There's another part of her saying, fuck it, Brie, just go for it. Tell the man you love him. If it feels right, YOLO. And you can see that real struggle that she's having. And she decides to go for it and tell Matt that she is falling in love with him.

And more some more than others. I really felt for Brie in that moment. I felt the real struggle because it went against everything that she has told herself that she should do to make sure that she's making grounded choices in her life. But it was probably is in that that sense probably good for brie you know she is someone who you know can't get out of their head or or you become too kind of rigid in your choices i think she will if she doesn't end up with matt and i don't think she will won't regret that moment of going for it and realizing she survived the disappointment and it will probably be a good experience for her. Nick, you have added a layer of pathos to this situation. You've truly, my full notes for Bree, little sis is baby, mom is os.

That's pretty much all I had. And she's a realist. That was pretty much the extent of it. But you, you took me a level deeper. And now I am. There you go. I'm very pro-Brie. All right.

Well, let's move on to the final date where Serena P. sends herself home. Always an interesting dynamic of is it Serena sending herself home? Is it her parents convincing her? Kind of the point where it almost felt like, and I guess I suppose someone could do this. It almost kind of seemed like Kit was doing this, where Kit told herself, I'm going to show up on this show,

I'm only going to go so far, and then I'm going to leave myself. Ironically, Kit 21, Serena P 22, the two youngest are the ones who have left on their own, which good for them to me that shows a level of maturity of like i'm not ready that's okay yeah i respect that uh i respect that and uh but you could see if for future people going on the show i guess you could totally get away with listen if i make it to hometowns and i show up because they don't get a chance to talk to their parents before they walk in the door on camera and mic'd, you could just be like, if I show up and I just, you know, I scratch my face a lot. That means I want out.

That means I want out. So your job, the whole hometown date is to like see the doubt in my eyes and be the ones who convince me because i don't want to be accused of breaking this guy's heart so can you guys just play bad cop for me so that i can like you know come to the realization i suppose the cast member could do that i guess so and get away with this is this your speculation on serena p it kind of felt a little bit of like yeah because she other than the yoga date she's like i don't know i'm bubbly let's have fun today they didn't open the date with you know sometimes they've done this in the past we're just like you know i'm just i'm really you know last week was tough and i want to

get back to normal i want to get back to where matt and i were our first one on that you hear this a lot and there was no kind of like setting up what could happen it was like serena p being like hey i'm looking forward to matt we're gonna have a fun day and this is gonna be goofy and playful and like i love canada and i want to show them canada it was this like it kind of was set up to be like a normal date and then you have that turn yeah and it was and it was kind of once she met her family her family was like i don't know I don't know. But I can see also that again, going off what you said about your emotional and mental process during this whole thing, it's possible that going home, not home,

but going, you know, being in a place where there's poutine. So you're in Canada and then seeing your parents would make, would be like, you're touching your former self for a moment and that might be like a splash of cold water that makes you go, okay, yeah, maybe not. Yeah, totally. But I, you know, her family seems nice. I felt like they, I, at first, when I first watched it, I felt like there was a bit of convincing their daughter and then I re-watched it and I didn't get that the second time it was just more like Serena saying they're missing their gut now it did make me think of our Dr. Berman episode I don't you

probably you know but we had a Dr. Berman on who told us and taught us on this episode about relationships that sometimes the butterflies that we feel are a red flag that what it is is our body telling us you know that that excitement is really our our our ego saying oh we love this and this is exciting but it's triggering because we know they might not be good for us so maybe it's those things that you know the lack of excitement might be a reason to like keep digging and finding out more now serena p doesn't have that benefit in the bachelor to like play the slow game with matt so hey she's like fuck it i'm not going to get to where i need to be but yeah ironically it was the again serena p talking about this tragic heartbreak that her family like it was so interesting this episode

you had these three women all be like, you know, that thing that happened and our family and everyone's family was like, yeah, yeah. That fucking sucked, man. Like it sucked for us as much for you. And it was all these like real clearly to keep it vague. Yeah. They keep it vague. They don't want to talk shit about, you know, their exes or whatever.

Yeah. But truly, it was just like a really it was something they were trying to avoid and um i guess for serena p and maybe she should just listen to our dr berman episode because if she is looking for that intangible excitement that she doesn't can't explain why she likes a guy maybe maybe she shouldn't fall in love with that guy because he's going to her up again who knows right I don't know. And there is something, you hit on something. There is an interesting element to this process where it's like,

you do have a super limited amount of time, right? You got to meet a lot of different people. So obviously, to get yourself to the end, you gravitate towards the ones where it's the smoothest, where you might feel some excitement, but it's also very smooth and and like the people who annoy you a little bit you get rid of because they annoy you a little bit right but like for long term somebody's got to know you a little bit right sure you gotta there's got to be like a little bit of tension but this is not a long enough process for you to figure out what's the good kind of tension exactly so you just gravitate toward the one that you are most physically

attracted to yeah sometimes that's enough and sometimes i guess and he spent the most time with her like alone time yeah well she's the only one who got two one-on-ones uh and well to that point so like you know we all know serena p leaves and uh matt leaves the hometown with like i don't know does she not like me so i guess you know know, Chris Harrison comes in and apparently convinces Matt. He says, you can't leave this hanging on, but, you know, whatever. And so Matt goes to talk to Serena P. And she says, hey, I don't think you're my person. Matt looks really bummed.

I've been really kind of going back and forth. How much does Matt like Serena P.? I can't tell. Because is it as much or more than Rachel or Brie? It's not like Cassie level, for sure. There's those instances on The Bachelor that have set precedent where it's like, I want to go home, and The Bachelor. Yeah, well, that was kind of my point.

That's it. I'm done. So Matt first looked really bummed, and then he was like okay yeah i'm gonna say no i'm bummed all right say nice things matt okay matt says nice things can i walk you out but you're right like colton jumping fences had vanessa left at hometowns it would have been for me the end of the world it would have been uh yeah you wouldn't know what to do with yourself i i i think a rachel lindsey is incredible i love our chemistry raven's great like corinne cool hang but like i i don't want to i don't engaged yeah like what no like this is the right you know i would have lost my shit and so to me the the way Matt, like the way he reacted to Serena P leaving him was more of a, listen, I don't care how much you like or dislike someone.

It's a very humbling experience to be the lead of the show where everyone's telling you you're the prize to be won. And they're like, you're the prize to be won and they're like you're not it for me and uh very very humbling uh experience and i don't it hurts it hurts and uh even when cameras aren't around when you have been meaning to dump somebody and they dump you first that hurts yeah yeah what i was gonna know that you were about to end it it's still a kick in the yeah 100 you were gonna do 100 but matt matt is he seems to be fine and you're right he doesn't react the way that serena p was someone he was sincerely thinking he might uh end up with is kind of how i read it as as Cher tells us, it's in his kiss. There was a moment where they kissed at the end of the date

and he was fully holding back and I was like, no, this is not, he's not, he's not it. Yeah, so. I know his game, he's not it. Good on Serena P for leaving on her own terms. Matt was a gentleman. He walked her out. He's okay.

All three women. Quick note for, I'm sorry, quick note for production. If you're going to surround a place with uh with flags steam steam the flags i mean thank you for that comment canada flags yes that had just been taken out of a box uh the trump administration did this for the republican national convention they surrounded him with with american flags that you knew that they took out of the amazon delivery box because it still had the lines in it they still the lines steam the flag oh my god that made my ocd thank you for doing

that 100 great it's great my ocd was like it's a great point i also just want to give matt a shout out here high character guy uh also likes to be challenged he is surrounded by clues serena p points it out and he's like him as soon as he asks a question he covers his eyes because he wants to know if he can get this right answer right without cheating the man this is a guy who won't cheat even when no one's looking yeah i really i really I really believe that and that is character so so props on Matt all three women get roses there's three roses to give out Brie is a little nervous about not of being the last get the rose Brie I can assure you that doesn't mean shit but it's it's more who needs it the most or who would react the most without not getting it. And that might come from The Bachelor and that might not come from The Bachelor.

If you really like someone and you see your person struggling, you're like, I'm giving her the first rose. Because I just want to give her that small win. It's all about small victories in that world and for whatever reason You know Michelle he wanted Michelle to get it and Do they ever do the producers ever switch the order in terms of how we air it or in post? Yeah in post. Yeah Yeah, that happens all the time Yeah, do you guys want to talk about in closing Matt's a In post. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That happens all the time. Yeah. Do you guys want to talk about, in closing, Matt's hometown beard?

Women tell all beard. I feel. The women tell all beard. James Martin. I like it. That was a shock when it came out, though. I was like, whoa. It's a totally different look.

Now, the big question is. This is a very different look. The big question is, is this like a off-season beard you know like a playoff beard so to speak yeah that he will shave for like the super bowl as often athletes do and he's gonna my point is he's gonna come out for afr looking groomed and clean or is this a is this a new look he is gonna go with for the foreseeable future i think that's really the big debate being in the fall in that place like maybe he like became one no he's sort of doing this after he got done filming uh this is his like this is like while the season is airing beard where he kind of you know because like in a sense the bachelor has to hibernate he he has to be very careful about his surroundings whoever he

picked if he picked you know they're maybe it's a maybe it's a disguise. It's a disguise. They're in quarantine. There's a little bit of like nervousness of like who's, you know, filming me. I wonder I wonder if Matt's going to keep it or if an AFR will see a groomed Matt James. I'm going to go. I'm going to go to I'm going to say he's going to shave and shave it. I need to see it in motion next week. I just I really need to get used to it. It is, you know, just the few glimpses that we got were it was distractingly juicy. Distractingly juicy.

Yeah. Like it's a shiny beard. It was it was like, yeah, it was well taken care of. Like he's using the wax. Oh, yeah. Matt is not a guy who just like. Yeah. Matt is a deliberate man. I don't care if he looks scruffy yeah that's a deliberate that's an act of choice yeah which now living in montana i appreciate the effort someone would put to make their beard look clean maybe he's going for that beard oil sponsorship while he's trying to get ahead of the game maybe he's gonna have his own beard oil line also possible where that's that's that's uh i mean nick's got the essentials locked down the Maybe he's going to have his own beard oil line. Also possible.

I mean, Nick's got the essentials locked down. The essential oils. Yeah, you can't do that. That leaves the beard oil segment. Industry open. That is true. Dave, this has been a ton of fun recapping with you. This has been a joy. What a ball.

You are welcome back anytime. We'll be sure to have you back for, for future seasons. Can you please let our audience know where they can digest more of your work? The things that you're writing. I know you have a book. Yeah.

Share, share that with my audience. If you can, my book party of one is available where books are sold. I am an editor at large for Esquire magazine. Also, and this is the good thing about lockdown is you don't have to be in LA for this. I do a sketch comedy game show thing at a theater called Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles. We're doing it online this Friday. It's called the

Friday 40. It's me and my good friend, Scott Gimple, who's the showrunner for The Walking Dead. It's 40 questions about the events of the last seven days while we all drink 40s of beer. Our contestants will be Karen Kilgareff, Roy Wood Jr., musical guest Christian Lee Hudson. It's going to be a ball. If you follow me on Twitter or Instagram, all of that information. That sounds fun. It sounds so fun. I'm a good comedy theater weather the can I can I be a guest sometime

absolutely I think you did yeah yeah yeah you asked me and then I think I said I don't know did you say I'm too cool no I definitely I definitely I definitely I'm developing but I'm like so cool. I'm developing my social life. But it sounds like a ton of fun. It's a really good time. Yeah, come and join us.

You'll see. It's super easy. You know, you know. It sounds so fun. Drink beer and answer questions. Just the fact that you're drinking 40s. It's like a lost art. Yeah.

Yeah. There's beauty in that, isn't it? Dave, thanks so much. Really appreciate it. As always, guys guys we appreciate you listening Don't forget to subscribe Rate five stars sending your questions at Ask Nick at cast media.com cast with a K

For our ask Nick episodes We have a fantastic Episode for you tomorrow With the very lovable Legend Maria Menounos to talk about Well Just how to better ourselves growing together being better together she is a very open and honest person talking about her

personal health struggles as well as her mother facing adversity and getting through difficult times a very inspiring conversation with Maria and I am sure you will all enjoy it so be sure to tune into that other than that thanks for listening and have a great rest of your day.