The Viall Files - E243 The Bachelor Recap With Jason Ritter

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

On today’s Bachelor Recap of The Women Tell All we are joined once again by Viall Files recap favorite, Jason Ritter.  Jason comes in hot giving us his overall thoughts on the season, relieved that Matt addressed the topic he wanted to hear most about,  kissing with his eyes open. Nick and Jason waste no time getting right into their usual analytical banter about the topics discussed from Anna’s apology, Katie’s comments about Karma, Victoria’s lack of ownership, and finally how The Bachelor gave us a rare look at production by showing us what they took out of the show and how that will change the way an audience can watch the show.  Make sure to stick around to the end to hear their Bachelorette predictions and final thoughts on who Matt may end up with.   “I think she needs to go into a cave and scream out and then start over.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:   Helix Sleep: http://www.helixsleep.com/VIALL for up to $200 and 2 free pillows.  Rothys: http://www.rothys.com/VIALL to check out all the amazing shoes, bags and masks available right now. Bloomscpape: http://wwwbloomscape.com and use code VIALL to get 15% off plant orders of $100 or more.  Ritual:  http://www.ritual.com/VIALL for 10% off during your first 3 months.     Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @jasonritter / @jason_ritter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That is helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L for up to $200 off and two free pillows. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of The Vile Files. I am your host, Nick. Nice to meet you. Not sure if you've heard of me. It'd be wild if someone just like download this episode and be like, who the fuck's this guy?

I'm going to take a listen. Very specific recap episode of a certain show. But anywho, I don't want to assume my name's Nick. Chrissy is my producer. I'm joined by her. We also have Allie and Amanda in uh making sure that we get the names right and uh they do a lot more than that but they they do do that that's the important thing yeah yeah that's why we have them um we have a fantastic episode for you uh legend bachelor commentator

fan favorite delightful human jason ritter is back uh is is here to join us to break down the tell-all and uh sometimes the tell-all is is hard to recap because you're recapping a recap but i gotta say i feel like jason and i really dominated the conversation and found some really good nuggets yeah uh on how to watch the tell-all it was a it was a unique tell all like never before and we get into why so be sure to tune in yeah i guess i guess what i'm saying is if you've listened to this much of this episode already don't don't quit on us now power through power through power through um if not for you for jason at least. Yes. I don't think Jason needs this. This is probably the most fun he has.

He probably would put this on the top of his resume. He loves it so much. We are appreciative of him. Also, one thing we didn't talk about with Jason, in defense, was it, who was it? What's the word in the bloopers that the girl couldn't say? I couldn't say it. What is it?

Compartmentalize. Thank you. Compartmentalize, yeah. If you focus on it, how? Compartmentalize. Compartmentalize. Compartmentalize. Hard to say.

Compartmentalize. Yes. Compartmentalize? Compartmentalize. Compartmentalize. Anyways, I empathize with that young lady. Anyways, we're going to get an episode with Jason Ritter. I hope you enjoy it.

Please give us five stars. Thanks for listening. And we have a great episode on Wednesday. If you're interested in human design, what is human design? Great question. Well, you can learn about what that is on Wednesday with world-renowned human design expert Jenna Zoe. And it's a great way to another science, a pseudoscience, if you will, about learning about ourselves. If you're

into astrology and, and other kind of, uh, personality tests or things like that are really fascinating discussion and what that is and what you can learn about yourself in relationships through human design. And that is on a Wednesday tomorrow. And, uh, be sure to check that out. Uh, other than that, go back and check out our Ask Nick episode. Personally, I think I crushed it, but that's just me. And other than that, thanks for listening. I love you. Stay nice out there.

Bye. Not bye. Don't leave. Don't hang up. Don't hang up. There's probably an ad coming up next. Jason, welcome back. I think I speak for my entire audience when I say we are thrilled to have your expertise, enthusiasm, and wisdom to break down the tell-all. Well, before we started recording, Jason and I were having some fun talking about how much one another and we include Justin Long in this.

We all just we all just want to be friends with each other. And we're we're too afraid to be rejected by the other one. The other one. But like making friends as an adult is like harder than it was into the first grade. Like when you're in the first grade you're just like hey you want to be friends you're like yeah i also liked sliding down slides we should be best friends and now when you're an adult you're just like do they like me do do you want to like grab some food and the other person like i think but is it okay to say yes and it's very complicated to make friends yeah also in la because sometimes like people don't know like in la specifically

people are like always like let's grab food and you're like are we really gonna grab food yeah but do you really what do you want from me you know we should do lunch next week are we really gonna do lunch next week did you just say it yeah you're gonna kidnap me exactly exactly what's the what's the catch yeah but it is it is great to have you uh jason uh before we get into the tell-all of which i think there's some lot of uh notable things to talk about uh What are your thoughts on this season? What are your thoughts on Matt James? Do you have some favorites? Take it away.

Yes. I have a lot of thoughts. I think this season has brought up a lot of things, and the women tell all sort of kind of nicely touch on a lot of the things the women tell all sort of kind of nicely touch on a lot of the the uh the things that i think we'll probably end up talking about when it comes to like accountability and all that kind of stuff and um uh but i uh i'm glad they finally talked about uh matt james uh kissing with his eyes open um that is a that's the thing that's that was a thing that was unsettling to me and i also

realized do i have i done that i think i have done that i i know what it looks like someone's blurry yeah i i've been um this has been a sensitive issue for me yes because the benefit of going on the bachelor of which there are some and one of which is you have the opportunity and while very challenging and difficult is to watch yourself make out do you mean like i keep saying like put a camera on yourself hire a vlogger have them follow you around be hidden and then watch it back it's going to be a hard watch for everyone it's a hard watch right yeah especially like intimate kissing oh yeah like no idea if the world is going to go that's what you think it is that's like anytime i've had like the first couple times i had to

kiss someone in a scene i was terrified that a director would be like is that how you think humans do that is that is that how you do that like no my character is so weird so that's why I was being method sorry I was a full-on method no I'm a super I'm a casino straight normalist more normalist kissing. What kind of sleeper do you think Matt James is? Do you think he's a side sleeper? Stiff as a board, light as a feather? I think he sleeps on his back like a vampire.

I think it would be awesome if he slept on his stomach. You know Daniel from Paradise? Daniel from Paradise? Yes, I love Daniel. He would sleep like a board face down with his hands perfectly at his side without moving. It was insane. Like this? No, on a face down. Face down.

Oh, face down. Like an alien. I don't know. Craziest thing. It tracked for him. I was like, you're so fucking bizarre. I love it. He's so weird.

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Before I tell you what I think. But, yes, and so i also personally think it's weird to to say that you kiss so 100 with your eyes closed like how does that also work you know you just have to like all right close your eyes and then you like feel their shoulders and touch their face and hold like what is? Of course you keep your eyes open to some level. The Bachelor obviously is an over-romanticized experience and show about love, and therefore all kissing is there deemed

supposed to be super hot romantic, and I understand that in those moments, like, you want to just close your eyes and you don't want to be looked at, but we all keep our eyes open to a certain degree now i understand to the lips touch and then you close them listen matt definitely does it more than the average person yes but i just don't think it's as a big of a deal as everyone is making it i i do love how matt and he's what he's exceptional at. He is so good at owning his,

his, his faults. He's good at being self deprecating. He is good at not letting it things, you know, he called like, we should all take a note from Matt and how to do that. He's,

he's truly excellent at that. And it's, it's really been good to see someone who's like, yeah, I watched it. And I thought it was weird. He has a very charming way of owning his mistakes. And we live in a time where people are so bad at that. We saw a lot of that this episode in terms of people not fully wanting to be accountable. I do want to point out how right I was.

And we all know how I like being right. But Jason, I don't know if you've been listening to this podcast. I said I believe Anna is going to pretty much have a really solid apology. And I believe Victoria won't. And I that that happened and we'll we'll break it down but in general i i i'm pretty sure i nailed that you were a hundred pretty sure i nailed it i i think let's get right into uh we think's kicked off with uh you know it's kind of a weird of all the things to start with it was like the decenia and mj drama and they didn't really say anything all that important what i've realized

about mj something that i realized about myself is that mj her resting gaze is not super pleasant it's it's one of kind of a what they call resting bitch face. I say this knowing that I too have a resting bitch face. And when, and when MJ is in her normal kind of like chill, she looks angry and mean, unfortunate for her, unfortunate for me. But like, I've learned that about MJ this episode. For me, it's funny. Cause for me, it's like, there's something about that that i that reminds me of like the the cool girls who were like a couple years older than me that were just

like oh my do you you hate you think i'm the worst you i'm such a loser i i love you i'm obsessed like there is actually she really reminds me there was a commercial that i tried to find before i came here so that i could send you guys a link but there was like a commercial these two it was an anti-smoking commercial like two 14 15 year old kids and they see this beautiful uh woman and she's by a not a woman she's probably like 17 a little bit older though and um she's like talking to all these cool guys and they're like whoa look at her you know all this stuff and then she lights up a cigarette and then there's all this animation she turns into a skunk and a skeleton and she coughs and hacks and then these two kids who are clearly not like in the same sort of realm as her they look at her and they go yeah but she smokes

let's get out of here or something like that. That exactly is what she reminds me of. Just sort of like this. She has like the eighties, you know, like tough girl hair. Yes. And yeah, yeah. She's a, she's, you know, she's an interesting, she is sort of a symptom and the thing with just any as a, as part of the whole thing of kind of what we were talking about, which is she and a lot of the girls did a lot of the women did a, a thing that's like an incredibly natural thing,

which is like a primal instinct. When a new group comes in, you align yourself with, with the bigger group and you tear them down, you know, you make jokes and stuff like that. And a lot of them did it. And then when they kind of got called out on it, a lot of them, like, I remember, I think Kit was like, I'm so sorry. I didn't even realize like what we were, how we were making you feel. And I think that's kind of what you were talking about, like with Matt James saying, I watched it back. I realized some things I'm going to make some changes.

And I think the biggest sort of thing that MJ didn't do was just go, yeah, I, I did say that. And I, we were kind of joking, but I, I didn't really, I didn't mean it as with as much anger or harm as it may have caused. And I'll just own that now. But instead she said, I never said that. I didn't do that. And that's always where you get in more trouble is when you try to avoid that accountability instead of just sort of letting it wash over you and going, I learned something. Yeah, perfectly said. And how I like to break down the tell-all,

because what the tell-all is is interesting because all these women who are at the tell-all, like us, have been able to watch themselves, watch their peers, watch Matt. Well, they lived it, and they certainly experienced a lot more than we got to see there's also things they got to see for the first time all the ITMs that go on of the individual women talking about their experience a lot of them they didn't get to hear that stuff but they have spent all this time prepping themselves for what they you know watched or the criticism they might

have got or hopefully what they watched about themselves they might not have liked. And tell all is it's a real opportunity to redeem yourself. We've seen some great redemptive stories on tell alls. And so more than ever, we like to like point out kind of winners and losers of each episode. But the tell all really truly is like a chance for you to kind of win or lose

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winners and losers of this episode and then let's maybe just break down those um victoria let's start with victoria uh okay l for her big l not shocking is why i'm going to start with with victoria because i i truly didn't expect expect Victoria to seize this opportunity right because you know you she doesn't strike me and I haven't met her in person but doesn't strike me as someone who is incredibly self-aware and a lot of the things that she said on the show um kind of were were representative of someone who just doesn't get it is i guess the simplest and nicest way to say it and she this was an episode of a lot of butts yeah the the the butt and and and certainly victoria was was one of those people who certainly she acknowledged everything everything she said that almost hinted at an

apology was immediately followed by a butt butt and that just discredits everything you're saying even when she spoke to matt it was like it was like that was bizarre i didn't understand that did we understand all of a sudden it was it just reeked of a performance? Yeah, she was like, I was in pain, and you let me go when I was in pain. It just like, oh, Matt's here? Oh, it's my time to talk to Matt? All right. All right, cry.

All right, now we're going to cry and talk. I had this one on my- Like that he hurt her. On my tell-all, Danielle L. did that. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, her voice changed, and she went into this whole kind of like what clearly she had prepped for this, and she started talking in her like raspy, what do they call it? Howard Stern actually came up with it during my season.

It was like a robotic kind of – he had a name for it. I forgot what it was, but Vocal Fry. There you go. Vocal Fry. Oh, Vocal Fry, yes. Yeah. And this wasn't Vocal Fry by Victoria, but it was clearly a performance when Matt came out.

But I guess we don't need to spend too much time breaking it down other than she didn't surprise us. Another big – what was surprising, and to me, need to spend too much time breaking it down other than she didn't surprise us another big what was surprising and to me i thought one of the biggest um losers not i'm not a loser in life but a loser for this episode was um um katie katie huge huge l for katie i say that because i quite like katie and Katie and Katie Katie is someone who seems to be self-aware smart articulate opinionated but wow did she like let me just like Katie Katie said um I know a lot of you experienced bowling and and uh and shaming, but that your backlash is your own karma.

And to me, again, I just want to point out, it's never okay to bully. It's never okay to say mean and hurtful things on the internet or in life. Karma is not an excuse. And I was so surprised by katie saying that jason do you have thoughts on on on the the rambling i just made yes i have a lot of thoughts and um you know this is gonna be this is gonna be complicated but we're gonna get through

it uh we're all still gonna be friends i am like huge team katie okay i like i i love her and i think i think it's like i think i have to admit that a part of it is that like when she had that moment with sarah where she sarah was like you know my dad is sick and they had that real like here's what's really going on i'm not just trying to monopolize his time my father is like very ill and i's really going on. I'm not just trying to monopolize his time. My father is, like, very ill. And I'm conflicted about being here. And I'm trying to figure out if I should be.

And Katie said, which I think was the only time she ever mentioned it, my father passed away. And I wish I had more time with that. And that was a real turning point for Katie. Because Katie was, I mean, she was the one who got interrupted by Sarah in that one time. And was really upset about it. Yeah. Right rightly so. So Katie had this sort of moment. And then I just think it's interesting that she only mentioned it once because so many of us, we tell ourselves a story about ourselves and especially with traumatic things like that. And that becomes like a thing that we lead with. Here's the worst thing that happened to me. This is a hugely defining moment for me. And I thought it was so interesting that Katie just is carrying that around.

And I didn't really hear her mention it except for when it came up with someone else and she brought it up. But so here's my thing. Here's what I think happened with Katie because I also agree that there were some bumps in the road in the women's hell with the way she talked about it. And I think she tried to correct it

when she initially said um you know i no bullying no body shaming all that stuff so so what i think happened is you know basically katie was a whistleblower in in the episode and like people just don't like whistleblowers they don't like being called out. And, and I, you know, you're like, it's like that people thinking they're making like horrible, insensitive jokes in private. And then they're like called out about it. And they're like, well, no one was supposed to hear that. You know, like that was for my friends. You don't like doing it, but then you have to sort of take accountability. So I think what happened with Katie was there was a, it was,

it became so difficult for her to be in the house and you're not, you're not getting the, the positive feedback that you may be getting on Twitter once it starts airing and stuff like that. You're just sitting in the entire house, hating you for however long until she left. And so I think it was a moment to me, it felt like a moment where you

come back to your 10 year or 20 year high school reunion and you're like, well, hello everybody. People seem to think you weren't being mean and people thought I was right. You know, it was like, I think she was sort of like, you were all so so angry at me but a lot of people on the internet just thought that that was mean the stuff that you said and so i think she was sort of like having one moment of like i told you you'll all pay you know like what i used to refer to my thoughts like that's an excellent point yeah that's an excellent point of like you like, you'll all see one day. No. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. But I do think she had to, it was good that she walked it back, that it's not just like,

I think that may have been an inside thought of like seeing people get torn down for being mean and privately going, karma. And then seeing, oh oh when it comes out out loud that doesn't sound that great and i also don't realize the extent of what people have been dealing with maybe and yeah death threats and horror and even like all and just regular old bullying is is not great and not karma but yeah so that's that's what i think i think we agree on how it came off in the episode it's an excellent point but you're up you are absolutely right on on the kind of behind the scenes or the motivations of why things were said because watching it back while katie fan

favorite well liked she wasn't that well liked in the house yeah and you and i can say that confidently because like well katie katie is probably one of the smarter women there. In that world, that doesn't usually get you a lot of friends, especially when you're outspoken. And I'm sure Katie, like to your point, Jason, often felt like she was taking crazy pills while everyone else was acting like a fool. Right. And no one liked it when katie was the voice of reason they just thought she was an elitist self-entitled know-it-all in that in that environment katie definitely did make a mistake and she was called out for it on the women tell all because katie

listen that's fine i have no problem being the her being the whistleblower, so to speak. I that's fine. Okay, you're right. It. Yeah, you know, whatever. She did it. But she would have in the moment she felt the safest thing for her to do was not just address the house and be like, just you know, I said this she kept her mouth shut and now she kind of didn't realize or forgot uh because it's the first time doing the show that people are going to watch it back yeah and and there's going to be a tell-all and and these people who didn't realize it was Katie in the moment are going to be fucking pissed and they're going to come after her at the tell-all and and justifiably so because Katie should have owned that. Right. And she left her. And yeah, I think the karma comment and the butts were unbecoming of Katie and beneath her, because I do think overall she like has great points and was just because she was right doesn't mean she needs to be righteous. And I think that's where she made the mistake I agree I feel like there was a part of her in that moment that was like when Chelsea

said did you really mean that about the karma she was like oh nope I made a mistake you know let me try to clarify but at that point you've already said the thing and so but yeah I just like I really like was on team Katie so much that anytime like i mean i know

when victoria had a thing but i think did serena um c also have a thing like a private confrontation with yeah i think so yeah yeah serena c was kind of always on the peripheral of drama she was like she was like chelsea the two of them were kind of like part of the group, but on the outside never really got called out on their bullying. Yeah. And Kit, too. I thought it was very smart of Kit, whether genuine or not, to distance herself from Victoria. Yeah.

And really, Kit didn't say much. What she did say was to say, Victoria, hey, what you're saying, I don't agree with. It's not okay. I loved how Ryan – you're saying i don't agree with it's not okay i loved how ryan ryan pert there's no there's no nuance in bachelor nation in general uh there's usually no middle ground there's no gray a lot of things are black and white and ryan perfectly articulated by saying you know ryan saying because apparently she was like a dancer for an n team or something. There's been a handful.

And that's great. Cool profession. Fun. Seems like a lot of fun, you know. And it was either she's a hoe by some of her critics. Victoria the Queen was saying she's a hoe. Yeah, she's a hoe. And Ryan was like, no, I'm part of the arts community.

And I'm like, maybe you're neither a hoe or, you know, part of the arts community. I don't know. Maybe you're neither a whole or you know part of the arts community i don't know maybe you're just a dance but you're yeah you uh you're uh you're you're dancing that's fine but i aren't art i mean i get it there's an artistic form but like do we have to be so drastic and like how we are labeling like you're a hoe no no i'm part of the arts community. It's just like, ah, meh. Like, I mean, I podcast. I don't call myself as part of the arts community because I guess I'm creating content, you know, like I'm an artist. Entertainment. She's in the entertainment business. Sure. You got me there. But like arts community. Victoria's reaction to that was so ridiculous.

What did she say? She said that she was like, why are you being sensitive? I'm puzzled why you're holding on to this emotional anger. I've been called more horrible things and I just brush it off. Again, Victoria is arguably the most, one of the most, and I shouldn't say the most because there are a lot of people out there who are not self-aware, but she is part of that community that is completely oblivious to her own actions.

Which would not be the artist community. Yeah. Well, or the whole community. Yeah, that was the... That was the... Yeah, she... Well, one of the things I actually appreciated about the Women Tell All

is that it didn't turn into the Victoria show. I liked that they were kind of like here's a moment here's a second moment let's move on you know sometimes those those people get so much uh attention and especially when there's no clearly no curiosity or you know, desire to grow, or maybe even, you know, maybe the tools haven't grown yet for her to take in things like that. And I just, it was so, it was so interesting to watch Victoria and the two moments we did see with her go from maybe you're just oversensitive, which is just for all, everybody who ever has to do apologies that we all have to do out there I'm sorry your feelings got hurt you know is not the way to do it or like you're maybe

too sensitive or um but but but but it was interesting to go from maybe you're too sensitive to second Victoria which was ocean of pain Victoria yeah like just like i mean i know that it was it was a bit manipulative and things like that but i the thing is i i do feel like deep down there is some deep pain in victoria and she will do anything not to feel that she'll take down she'll you know through humor which she is funny she you know she'll take down, she'll, you know, through humor, which she is funny. She, you know, she'll take someone down or, you know, just do anything to avoid. I think her saying, I'm so terrified of rejection is the truest. That's the most honest I've seen her. You know, that was like, that is your, I think that's like, you are so scared that these feelings, you can only use them to try to get what you want in the old way.

You can't just sort of let the floodgates open. Even her emotion, in other words, even her emotions come out through that filter of kind of, what can I get? How can I make you feel something? As opposed to just, I think she needs to go into a cave and scream out and, and start over. I think you have her pegged and that was great. Yeah. I mean, it was, uh, the hypocrisy was rich when she called out Ryan for being emotional and then, and then her performance, uh, with Matt while performance no less kind of, you know, it was very emotional. I'm a sensitive guy jason you're a sensitive guy i think that's why we we we consider each other friends is because we're

in touch with our emotions um and not just friends on a podcast format but like genuine lifelong friends um but yeah i mean like i sensitive. Yeah. Like people need to stop saying that as a way to shame people, not only shame people, but like suggest that what their their actions of hurting someone are not as impactful. if you really care about someone's feelings, just focus on what you did and don't do that. Like if you think someone's so sensitive and again, understand this is a world of, this is a world where you have a bunch of women who aren't going to like continue to be in each other's lives. Right. So like in a normal relationship, if you're like dating someone or friends with someone and you want to continue that friendship or relationship, you just have to focus on like what you did to hurt their feelings and, and not make them feel like they're at fault because of their sensitivity.

These women are like, this will be the last time I ever fucking speak to you. Unless we're both lucky enough to go on paradise. But other than that, I want nothing to do with you. And in which case, like, let's just like negotiate.

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it was kind of nuts yeah yeah i mean i think i it's it's it's tough because again it's just that thing of like no one likes being accountable like and i've i've had that too i definitely like in my youth i've been so confused by, well, I didn't intend that. I didn't intend you feeling like that. So I will avoid my accountability by putting it on the way that you are reacting to it. More as opposed to going, okay, well, maybe we can understand that that was not my intention,

but I still, without disregarding your feelings or saying that your, your emotions are not valid, um, because that's not how I would have reacted or whatever. Yeah. And you can, you can sort of change your actions so as to not make someone feel like that, but it's so scary to, to feel like you hurt somebody or that you were bad or that you did something that, that is painful and it's just a quicker easier way to go i think that's a that's a you thing uh and like the thing about getting over it is another hilarious thing that we see all the time these days is basically just punching someone in the nose and then going oh my god it's over can we just forgive each other you're like that's the atlanta housewife way yeah exactly it's just it's a funny thing to just even though forgiveness is such a beautiful thing

to just immediately demand it without being accountable in the name of like peace uh you know i just it's yeah baffling yeah yeah yep yep um well let's let's let's turn the page and talk about that. Something that was maybe a pretty positive moment, while difficult to talk about, was the Brittany and Anna topic. So good. Yes. I just listen. Tough beat for Anna this episode or the season, rather. Anna this episode or this season rather but as far as apologies go I'd give her an A minus yeah maybe maybe even a solid A in fact I re-watched it this morning because last night when I watched it I was like oh she don't don't bring up the fact can she there's a moment in her apologies like well I mean I did hear things from like ex-boyfriend, but when I watched it back, she only said that because Brit,

Brittany asked her point blank. I mean, it was, in fact, it was kind of Brittany's mistake when she's like, where did you even hear this stuff? And so Anna just asked, answered the question to which Brittany really applied.

Well, was it your right to say that to which Anna appropriately said, absolutely not. But I listen, listen, it doesn't forgive or excuse what Anna did, but that was a home run apology. There was, I don't believe there was a, but anywhere in there it was, I'm embarrassed. I was wrong. I'm ashamed. I wish I could go back and change it. recognize that I can't I understand that my apology you know doesn't change what I did I understand that you might not forgive me just know that I

am sorry there is no excuse in this apology I was simply wrong yes like here's why I say a minus because Brittany does have a valid criticism in saying, why haven't I heard from you? I was about to say, I thought that was- That's a valid, she could have DM'd her. Clearly, they're in the same city. Anna could have reached out and said, just so you know, and I'm sure we'll be able to talk about it on the tell-all. Everything she said there, you have every right to hate me. I don't even know if you'll read this, but I was wrong. I'm embarrassed. I'm in. Sorry. I'm sorry. I will do

what I can to make it right. If I can. And she could have done that. She didn't. And that's why I think, you know, a minus apology, but in the moment, pretty solid. but in the moment, pretty solid. I completely agree. There was, you know, you were talking about butts, no butts, all accountability. I thought they both did such a wonderful job. You know, Brittany also did a great job of talking about,

you know, she had to sort of walk a fine line too, where she was sort of saying that hurt me when you called me that because it's not true, but also I don't want to demean people in that, you know, it was like, she was a very fine line that I felt like she really had to walk. And I also felt like, you know, she could have really leaned into, had to walk and I also felt like you know she could have really leaned into um you this is the first time I've heard of this apology and you didn't but she really said I felt like she really said she really took it and was like I hope that you mean that you seem sincere and um you didn't do it before but you're doing it now and I I respect that and I, you know, I will. And then added. I thought that was like a beautiful moment of conflict resolution.

And then she added the, please don't, please stop with bullying Anna. Yeah. Like she added that. Yeah. Great point, Jason, because often in these kind of situations, especially in a tele episode, we're talking winners and losers. And I think both Brittany and Anna and their own right for this episode, we're both winners.

I agree. We're in a situation where you would expect one to win and one to lose, but I think they're both winners. Brittany came in very prepared. She clearly thought about this and good for her for being prepared because she covered all the appropriate beats. And I don't say that as a way of someone who's like strategizes but like to jason's point no we live in a world where people are watching everything you say and when you have one opinion about something we tend to get accused of leaving

someone else out or accusing it so like if britney is defending her own actions saying i am not a sex worker then there's an implication some people might go after britney of saying so what if you are is that bad etc etc and britney did a great job of saying this is my truth but at the same time i just want to point out i want to use this platform in this moment in this opportunity to say if you are that doesn't define who you are doesn't minimize your existence it doesn't define who you are, doesn't minimize your existence, doesn't minimize your credibility. And an absolute home run by Brittany. Solid A, the only reason Brittany doesn't get an A+, is because she kind of forced Anna into having to say, well, I did hear things, and she probably didn't need to say that. Right?

Because Anna's like, I'm trying to nail this apology, and I don want to like go back to these but like you're asking me a direct question so like i guess i have to give you a direct answer and so like but we're nitpicking but truly like props to both britney and anna and they should both feel good about uh what they said and and you're right like like Anna made a mistake and it you know and we're going to learn hopefully she's going to learn from it and she looks like someone who truly can and none of these people deserve like it's just

like you know here we are and I think brings me to the next thing I want to talk about is like yes we this is a this particular segment of the show we we like to recap and talk about The Bachelor. Like I like to talk about football and Monday morning quarterback and stuff like this. This is not like who they are as humans.

This doesn't define who they are. We don't need to start DMing them and commenting about their character and like, hey, they're terrible people and, you know like granted anna in that moment like she she def like she that was an actions of someone who really and what i love so much about anna's apology is that she was like she talked about where it came from you know like this this uh like her self-hatred and anger and that's a really hard thing for someone to say because you know my criticism of anna when she said it was this is a person who kind of hate sounds like they hate themselves and they're they're expressing that hate and putting

other people down and for anna to say that national television is really hard and good for her and and to me uh i you know i'd fuck with anna so to speak right because you know i would uh i because the better what i'm saying is it's like i wouldn't fuck with victoria like i don't want her in my circle because i find that lack of self-awareness to be dangerous to be around and all i want like you're gonna be people are human we all make mistakes but if you lack self-awareness, then I find you to be a liability. I don't want you in my circle. I don't want you in my world. But, like, I'm fine with people who make mistakes as long as you can really just be self-aware.

And, again, good for Anna. That was really hard to do. And I think she deserves the credit for having that because a lot of people, every season you get an opportunity to do do that and so very few people seize that opportunity in the tell-all and anna did yeah because because you know that by being one of the part the hardest part about being accountable is saying i i did do that which when you're on tv doing it you seem like well i can't even say like no i didn't that's taken away because we have video and audio of you doing it you seem like well i can't even say like no i didn't that's taken away because we have video and audio of you doing it so i'm so hopefully you go well this is the opportunity the best thing that i can do is be accountable and i also thought like you said i mean i think the one thing that i

just want to point out about what britney said is that she said we are all deserving and worthy of love and i and i and i thought that her saying please stop bullying Anna was an extension of of her true belief in that like yes I don't want to call I don't want to use this to cause any more harm even to the person who started it or you know like not started it but like did this you know why we're all here yeah um I thought I thought that was so beautiful to say you know we're all we're all deserving of love absolutely now the next thing i want to talk about i think this episode was a teachable episode for bachelor fans of how they view and digest the show because for the first couple things this was a unique episode one obviously chris harrison has stepped away right yeah um based on the things he said so for the first time ever that i'm aware of i could be wrong this episode opened up with a

disclaimer of previously recorded on a date now this is very specific because the bachelor likes to allow the audience to like wonder if it wonder when it's happening in real time because it makes things seem more authentic and real. And that's fine that they do that. But because of the situation that's going on in Bachelor Nation. Because they wanted to make sure you knew it wasn't being addressed. Yes. So, okay, that's point one.

That's unique point one. And then I'm only assuming, assuming because of COVID and the fact that they are locked out and they're limited to like being in a one place the whole season and they have to come up with all these dates. They aired, you know, they aired behind the scenes of like entire dates that weren't aired. Like again yeah i've been on a lot of bachelor seasons i haven't been on them all so i can't say that's never happened but i'm pretty sure they've never just completely wiped out an episode now i have talked so much on this podcast and other podcasts and i've said listen you get to see such a fraction of everything that's aired

but now that we have heard the show acknowledged by them and show us hey there's a whole date we didn't show you yeah if that doesn't say before we start like just jumping on everything like imagine what that says about like we just completely took out an entire day. Which also makes sense by Mari won that thing after all this time, because there was so much in that like old Ben Higgins race that we didn't see. And we were like, how'd that happen? So the show is saying there's so much, the show is admitting, you know, without me or other alumni saying, Hey, you don't get to see everything. You know, you don't get to see everything you know you don't get to see everything the show is like hey you don't get to see everything i mean that might be the first time that the show just said it out loud yeah we're we really don't like entire dates oh we

we had jojo and taisha fly in yeah yeah no we just cut that out you know it wasn't real and let's talk about why they cut it out because these these dates that they show, you know what it looked like? It looked like a bunch of people having fun doing activities and all getting along. And they were too busy drinking eggs and going through ops courses. And they didn't have the time to hate on each other. And that's fine. So you know what the editing team did? It's like, well, this is not usable.

It's not interesting. No one wants to watch a people drink a bunch of eggs. That's a quick beat. We have other things. We've got to see that. But that's why you don't see it. So every season people are like, we don't get to see friendships.

And it's like, yeah, you don't. Because quite frankly, you don't want to watch it. As much as you say you do, you don't want to. But I only point this out because before you start just going after people and start saying who they are or what they're like, this is a whole day you might not be able to see. Imagine in life that you have to analyze things, like watching a football game, but you always miss the second quarter.

Yeah. And I have to say, this actually brings me to to i'm so happy that we're talking about this because i had i had a uh uh ulterior motive on this podcast and i was hoping that i could bring it up but it's exactly it's exactly this thing about editing and what we get to see versus the reality. And I just want to take a moment to stand up for Kim, who I feel was done wrong. Now, Kim, for those who don't remember, was one of the new ladies who came in the second thing. And basically, I think all we ever saw about her was that she said I have a dog who drools on everything uh he just yeah he just drools everywhere and I was like okay and then didn't

give her a rose so all we know about her is that she has a dog that drools on everything and that's not you know like I love dogs drool is not my favorite I don't know but the editing sort of made it seem like Matt was like I don't want to get drooled on all the time. And there's other ladies who don't have drooly dogs. And let's just do that. But I just wanted to point out on Kim's behalf, she is an ICU nurse, like doing COVID care in Los Angeles. She's not just a person with a drooly dog who got sent home on the first night.

And that's just what I want to say. Like, and to your point of editing, we don't get to see the whole thing. It could be that they didn't get along and that's it. But you know, sometimes, especially if a person gets sent home right away, the editors don't want to go, Hey, let's, let's make you care about this person. You know, they, they're just like, I mean, there's a lot of women still at that point. So they're, they can't do everything they can't. So all that they talked about, but, but as an audience member, I remember when I was doing my research and I was like, Oh Kim, who's, Oh yeah. She said she had a truly dog. What was her actual story? And then I see you nurse. That was barely probably was on the Chiron, but that's,

that's all that we saw of that. So I just, Kim, you, I thank you. Thank you for all the incredible work you're doing. Well said Jason. One more point to Jason. One more point to that. One more point to that. We've talked a lot about music and the edit on this show. And on this, what I found really unique, and I'm sure they've done this before, but I was more like high-tuned watching it back. If you go back and watch Britney's exit during the season, and then when they replayed, like, you know, hey, let's watch Britney's exit during the season. And then when they replayed like, you know,

Hey, let's watch Britney's story again, two completely different soundtracks of when she gets out of the limo. I'm almost certain. I'm almost certain I could be wrong, but like, you remember what Britney did. She got a,

she was a late arrival. Yep. Right. And she walked out and she grabbed that and she gave him a hot makeout. And Britney is kind of a sultry, attractive person that she kind of reads, you know, that way.

Right. And because she reads that way and the post, they're going to give her this. I don't know what music she got, but I, I'm most certain it was more of a suspenseful dramatic. What's going to happen next type of music. But the music she got in her,

like her rewind was one of like a princess and like love fairy tales and whatever and and you because like yeah because britney was very much a victim of this uh this show uh based off of you know what was aired and what anna said and so they went out of their way and i'm pointing it out because they showed it. Go back and watch. I'm almost certain we didn't get fairytale music. And I'm talking about the music

that when the limo opened and Britney, her feet walked out, it was like fairytale music. It was like catching a rabbit. Yeah, exactly. I'm almost certain. And that, like, go and like how you feel about what you're seeing based off the music it is drastic how much that plays a role in your

feelings towards a situation and a person it's it's fucking wild 100 percent right like there are times where someone gets out of the limo and it's like silly music. And then when you ever get the like, this could be the one, like piano music. It is weird how subconsciously you're like, oh, this could be. I don't have to take that other one serious because it was sort of goofy music. She's wearing a giant swan costume or whatever. But this one. Yeah. Stepped out.

It could be the real deal. So I only say that as a viewer, just take a breath when you have a reaction to our situation or someone. If you really find what you're watching to be kind of like a benign action, like say walking or getting out of limo or kissing someone, mute it. Go on Spotify. Turn on. Search fairy tale music. press play on mute and then play the music and then ask yourself how you feel about this situation now you know and if you don't want to do that i get that but like maybe not say that's a terrible person or i hate her

or whatever you can acknowledge that in the moment you're not a fan. You're not Team Britney in this moment. That's fine. But chill the fuck out. Yeah. You could do also the opposite experience, which is take your favorite person and put the Jaws music on when they step out of the limo.

When they're reading a poem. Yeah. Yeah. Some sort of Halloween thing. Yeah. they step out of the limo when they're reading a poem yeah yeah yeah i love i think tyler c's a great guy and we've talked about how like he you know he's revered and adored but go back and watch hannah brown season and when tyler c comes on play jaws music when he's like reading poems to hannah brown and you tell me if you think that's sexy or creepy you know this is gonna be your guys' new friendship I just think this was a really interesting

tell all by what the show was willing to show us yeah and if you pay attention it just allows you to just say alright I'm gonna take this show for what it is a silly reality tv show and and a bunch of flawed humans who go on and make mistakes and there are some exceptions like again the anna thing wasn't it wasn't a benign action of walking it was her

bringing in real life situation and and and it was hurtful what anna did you know we don't need to go back and rehash it but But, like, she apologized. But, you know, that was a unique situation. But a lot of the hate that comes people way in that show is, like, they seem a certain way. Or they, you know, like, oh, I don't know. I don't know what it is. I just get bad vibes. Whatever vibes you are feeling from someone is almost certainly not your real opinion.

Yeah. It's not your thought. You know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You've been made to be like, this is the hero. This is the villain. Yes.

Anywho. Tell-all is usually about often or often is about performances for the next bachelorette. And those are usually given by the hot seats. So many hot seats. Yeah, well, that's typical. But to me, there were two, like, hey, this is your audition moments, and that was Katie and Abigail.

I know that... And Piper? No, I don't think Serena C or Piper really has a chance. Serena P. Serena P. Yeah, I just don't. I'm sure they would be great. Well, my opinion of why I don't think Serena P is is because, you know, this is a show about falling in love. This is a show about being expressive. And while and serena p literally left because she's just not big on public displays of affection she and that good for her for opening up about her reservations of moving things fastly but that's kind of how the show works and so like

maybe you're not maybe it's not okay maybe maybe you wouldn't make a great bachelorette that makes that that's fine doesn't say anything about you as a human. Just because you're a great bachelorette doesn't mean you're a great person and vice versa. Piper, also similar, she finally tapped into some emotions. Didn't come out great when she tapped into those emotions, but good for her for recognizing it and say that she's learning.

But I also just don't see Piper being yeah that person Katie and Abigail however I think they have a shot and I'm curious Jason who do you think had the better audition to be the Bachelorette because they were very much auditioned oh gosh yeah I agree. I mean, yeah, I, you know, I mean, well, first of all, I'll say Abigail strikes me as one of the, like, truly sweetest people in the world. I mean, it, like, she seems so lovely and nice, and it's amazing that she, you know, I actually, watching some of her stuff back, I really thought they had a nice thing. And watching that thing back where they're like, oh, let's have a little signal where we, you know,

touch our ears or whatever it was. And then I was like, did they even ever do those signals when he was sort of. They did not. When he had kind of moved on. Let's see. Did he ever even go, Hey, remember our thing? I'm like, no. Oh, that's so sad. But, um, so I don't know. I, I, I, but I, I, I don't, I, it's hard for me to be able to tell because I don't know exactly. We didn't get to learn that much about her because aside from a couple

conversations, like, like I mean a little bit more on the women tell all but well you know after that first impression rose there were a couple little conversations where she they were like are we still good and he was like yes until he was like no um and I didn't I still don't really have a sense of of her. And Katie, I still love Katie. I just absolutely love Katie. I just think she's, I, yeah, every time anyone like confronted her, I was like, she's handling it so great. Aside from, you know, the karma comment. And I worry that that may have been the, something that keeps her from it. But also, these are auditions, but there's also a possibility that some of these top ladies

become The Bachelorette. Like Brie, right? Absolutely. I'm just talking about the women tell all. To me, from the tell all, the only real auditions that were presented were

Katie and Abigailigail you're absolutely right i think michelle would be truly fantastic yeah because michelle like i like katie i don't love her as much as you do i i do think there were moments uh throughout the season where katie is katie does to me katie seems like someone who's because of her intelligence and how smart she is. She is very much used to winning arguments and having confrontation. But if you if you catch Katie slipping up, so to speak, she doesn't handle it very well. She showed some moments of cattiness and kind of upping her kind of, you know, kind of letting the emotions get the best of her,

which is fine. It's all human, but she got a little mean. She's got a little meanness in her that I don't think we got to see. No, we all do. I mean, Abigail could absolutely have meanness in her. We didn't get to see much of her. That's often the case with leads is people are just like oh i love this person because you

didn't get to see them you know like we got to see a lot more of peter as the bachelor than we did on hannah brown season and opened himself up for more criticism like is that why you think abigail got the edit she did that's what i'm when you were just saying that i was thinking like maybe they didn't show so much of abigail because if they are thinking about her for the bachelor, then that's when you get to bachelor. No, I when you get to like really learn about her and have her story to a certain degree. But Abigail didn't even get a one on one. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think the producers would have liked to see that. And I think that speaks more to like the proof that it's not just all scripted or it's not like the lead.

the proof that it's not just all scripted or it's not like the, the lead is, is a real show and the producers really want people to like find real connections and they actually have a say on who they go on dates with. And again, it's, and you know, there's a lot of conversations, but you know,

with Matt, like as someone who had been on the show before and, and maybe it took him longer to connect and like some bachelor or bachelorettes might be like night one, be like, eh, these are my favorite two. I promise you it's not going to change. With Matt, who has a limited dating experience, he was like, I don't know. This might take me five weeks to really get to know someone.

And so if that happens, that the producers need to allow the lead to use that time on people they're really figuring out. And at some point, Matt like Abigail's not it. And so like Matt's real relationship took precedent over the show. And that I'm, that's just how it is. So they would have absolutely liked. So I'm just saying none of these people, we know all that well, you know, like.

That's true. That's true. I mean, I, I wouldn't be mad at Abigail, um, or Katie being the bachelorette. I just, I, right at this point, I feel like depending on who Matt chooses, I think, I think both, uh, Bree and Michelle are just like, both uh brie and michelle are just like um amazing humans yeah no yeah just like yeah um but uh but yeah so yeah so who knows i i don't know but uh but i i but yeah i i thought it was it was interesting that again talking about the editing they they didn't mention the most painful thing that matt said to abigail in the breakup was you know like i kind of we had such a good thing that i was able to sort of focus on these other relationships and i yeah and then they they all moved forward and we didn't but it was sort of like yeah i got you

we're good so let me i'll just explore and then you know it was that was the saddest part and they left that out of the yeah i that's part where the tell us to me is kind of bullshit and and that's why it's so hard to be the lead because you you are forced to say a lot of disingenuous things that you don't mean because the alternative is sounding like a dick you know for sure the reality is is matt's it's like i don't know i just wasn't into you man you know and so like then matt sometimes forced to say like if like i i like no critique i think i think matt really has been an excellent bachelor especially when you consider the fact that he had no experience about this crazy fucking world going into it and he's really done a great job and and i agree but it's like oh i wish we'd had more time. No, you don't. You know what I'm saying? Like what? Like and that's just something he is saying because it sounds nice and it feels good these things because again the alternative is like seeming cold or indifferent or whatever he would have made it more time

because if he did but like but like the odd like trust me like as someone who i have a hard time saying things that i don't believe and so like i i you go back and watch my tell there was i got one of it was always it's always like some of the girls who like you know leave in the first five weeks and and i think it was what was her name i forget but she was like i why didn't you spend more time with me and i was just like i essentially was like because i didn't want to you know and and then like some people like wow well that was cold but the alternative had been like lying about like oh i kind of like regret it and i'll always wonder and blah blah blah and

it's like no i like listen there wasn't a connection there it's fine i don't know if you even liked me you know and this is how it is uh but like you're just kind of forced to like say some of this bullshit because you you know know, you, Matt, Matt, it's clearly very important for Matt to, to be nice and at the risk of being disingenuous, being, being nice and not have anyone feeling a little bits slighted and, um, you know, good for him. Um, but, um, yeah, that's where you're kind of like, that's why a lot of things don't get addressed because there's really nothing authentic to say. Yeah. It's just, you gotta just get to the, can I walk you out?

Yeah. And Matt's where, and Matt's words, thank you for sharing. Yes. Thank you for sharing. And can I walk you out? Yeah. Actually I, both times in the in the actual episode and in the women tell all when he had that that painful um breakup with serena p uh both times i literally thought he was walking her out instead of him you know they were in her room i literally thought he was like okay well that's uh you know that stinks it's hard to hear unfortunately you can't stay here tonight uh anymore you have to leave right now if you break up with me oh no okay she's walking him in the

car to go back to his room that makes more sense i thought like well now you're kicking you out because if she got in a car and maybe did she get in a car i think she actually got in a car he did because she would have literally drove around the block and gone back to the room Because if she got in a car and maybe did she get in a car? I think she actually got in a car. No, he got in a car. He did? Because she would have literally drove around the block and gone back to the room because it's not like she's leaving. You know? Yeah. Eventually she might leave a few days later.

But like, hey, we're not going to make you get on a plane right now. You can go to bed. I know it's late. But that is what they make it seem like. I mean, not that they make it seem like you go on the plane right now, but they also sometimes make it seem like we've left that person on that island. Yeah. Yeah.

They're still there. And that's, you know, I'm glad they do. It makes for good TV. And I, but it kind of blows my mind that, that again I think this is a great episode that if you are someone who's been thinking this whole time that you know so and so is on an island or or this is all happening live and

yeah you know no clearly it's not and the show gave us that those gifts of saying we do this this is the show gave us those gifts of saying, we do this. This tell-all was a little bit of behind the scenes from The Bachelor of saying, we choose not to air entire dates sometimes if we want to. Do you think the audience doesn't know that on a regular basis i think you'd be shocked about how many people watching it just don't have that conscious thought and then they react based off of that idea you know what i'm saying like if i asked them do you think this they would probably be like of course not but they're reacting and

they're feeling in a way that would suggest that they actually think this is happening in real time so maybe like somebody who's only been in it like you really think like maybe somebody's only been in it or been in production or something like that really understands like how that's all. I have to say like, you know, it took me a while because it's called reality TV where I was like, they just set up the camera and then just edit it together. Exactly how I, you know, it took me a little bit to be like,

oh, right, they do. There's probably some manipulation going on there. Yeah. Yeah. The environment is more manipulating than anything. Yes. Oh, yeah. You know.

And I hate, it's like, I'm not trying to defend producers when I defend producers. It's more like I just, sometimes people defend producers when I defend producers it's more like I just sometimes people have to be held accountable for their own actions in the environment the the environment is fucked yeah you know yeah um and that's not to say that they're they're they're innocent but like often they get too much credit for the the producers for like shit they don't like I can't tell you how many times I've had them be like, we did not think that would happen. And thank God it did.

Cause that was amazing. You're like, wow. You know, what a gift. Oh yeah. There are definitely, yeah. There are definitely some things where you're like, no, no producer made you say that. Like that's, that's, that's your own thing. Maybe you were responding to the environment, but yeah, that's a final thoughts, Jason predictions in terms of the rest to the environment, but yeah, that's, uh, final thoughts, Jason, uh, predictions, um, in terms of the rest of the season, what do you hope to see? What do you think we'll see? Oh boy.

Gosh, you know, well, you know, it's, it's really interesting. I, I, I, I'm very intrigued by Matt's dad showing up in, I don't know if it's the next episode or at some point, but it looks like he has a confrontation with his dad. Did I miss that? Did I miss that? I think in the coming up on,

he was like, you weren't there for me. Yeah, it looked like that um i could be wow i i'm hearing about this in real time i missed that i missed that if that i i don't even know how to think about that that's that's a kind of fucked up yeah yeah i have no i mean i don't know i mean it seems like, maybe they brought him there without him knowing or something, but that I, you know, there's, there's a thing, there's a thing that I get, like, I think is part of why, why I like Katie so much, but also something that I think is interesting about Matt and about Brie is this thing of, well, especially for Matt, and the fact that he really takes care of all of these women and really doesn't want to hurt their feelings and all this stuff. You know, he, at least from what it seems like,

he grew up learning how to be a man from his mother. And, you know, to a lesser degree, I, I understand that. I mean, my dad was in my life for, you know, until he passed away. But, but when you lose that kind of that guidance, it, it, it's, it's, it's very interesting how it affects the way that you, you know, there's no, at least for me as a man, there's no male figure in your life saying like, by the way, here's how you do this. Here's how you do, here's a way to navigate this. You're, you're sort of kind of like, is this, is this right? Am I, am I doing this correctly? Is there a better way? And, and then you like, and I think also my mom taught me a lot more about how to sort of interact

with people in general and I'm super grateful for that but it's it's interesting it's an interesting dynamic when you know I don't know I'm just I'm really interested to see how that all plays out and how how Matt responds to that and how that affects his decisions going forward. And I don't know. I mean, it's such a complicated season, you know, with person is announced, there comes some stuff comes out that makes one of the contestants less appealing to a lot of people to be chosen. So I don't know. i don't know what happens i mean personally even without all of that stuff i i think brie is so incredible she's my top choice uh and i but i also think michelle is amazing and i think michelle and matt would have a wonderful partnership and again talking about editing i think she said something in in her hometowns where she's like he wants to build these gardens and i was like he does i didn't know that

i could see that yeah what so do you think like i again without people i sometimes hate saying these things but whatever brie is my choice for me now i don't want to date brie i don't need people to start setting us up and breeze doesn't want to date me and just want to point this out you know but brie would be my choice i i i look i watch her and i think i she's she's awesome you know like attractive and cool and i just her vibe everything about michelle also great but i think i would connect better with someone like brie now that being said i look at michelle and i there's the chemistry that matt and michelle have i think might what am i saying that's right no it's just you're so excited about it and all your hand

gestures and you're like so into it and i'm like you're passionate about it right now you see the connection between those two i don't see the the connection with Bree and Matt as much. Right. I would be sure. I think Bree's the next one to go. I think your final two is Michelle and, and Rachel. And I think Rachel is going to win.

I actually, I do too. I think that's, I think that's probably why Chris Harrison was so defensive in that interview that he did. Because I feel like it reminded me of when they were like, Garrett, sure, he liked some stuff, some transphobic stuff. If he wasn't the one who they're trying to be like this is the fairy tale they would have been like you know they sell people down the river all the time so you know sometimes when when they're there's a lot of defense of the person it feels like either they

what's going on here far yeah or the chosen the chosen one yeah um i will i will say and it's not you know it's not my you know i'm not absolving anybody of anything, but similarly to, well, we were talking about apologies and accountability. I was pointed out to me that at some point, aside from her first apology, Rachel on some stories said like, hey, the people who are defending me, stop. I actually, I did did this was wrong like and that's that's a because it's nice to feel supported or whatever but if you're if you're trying to truly be accountable you have to also say to the people who are going you didn't do anything wrong no i i actually did and at least from here it seems like she's learning but you know again i thought you know yeah i know like people it's like i i agree with you it's been listen there's this for a lot of reasons this season has been

stressful for everyone to cover i don't know rachel and clearly what she did in the past was wrong i we have all done again like i've, ignorant things. Many of us are lucky enough to have that not be on the Internet. Right. And I don't know Rachel as a person, but it seems like she at least wants to take the right steps in learning. And I agree with you. That seemed like a positive thing. But we'll see where it goes from here. Like I said in the past listen people

will show you who they are you often the first time and if they apologize like we'll find out who rachel is i'm sure we found out who garrett was after he apologized someone who's proven to like not be remotely interested in learning despite him saying it right and we'll figure it out right but you know again i do like, I do like, I, I've seen. Apology is the first, I think one of the things is that that's so positive about all of this stuff is when we, as a community see these things happen and come out,

we as sort of bystanders also have the opportunity to learn and go oh wow okay you know now I know this thing that maybe I didn't know before and you know I think if there's you know and and you know the people who are in the middle of it react however they react and either they apologize or they don't and then they either follow through on changing their actions and really fighting against what they have done or they don't. But I do think it's so interesting and worthwhile to talk about all this stuff

and hash it out. And then, yeah, at the end of the day, hopefully everybody learns something and we we grow as a as a community and as a people yep well said jason on that note i uh want to say as always thank you for taking your time and recapping with us uh please come back again well you know just maybe every season i think we'll just slot you in for with us. Please come back again. He's the best. I would love to. Maybe every season, I think we'll just slot you in for one episode. I want to be in the same room with him one time.

It's a delight. You missed out. Third time's the charm. Once again, please remind our audience of where they can find you, what you're doing, where they can find more of you. All that good stuff um i'm uh i'm at at jason ritter one word on twitter that's sort of my main thing although i

haven't been doing that much on there uh doing a lot of like listening and liking and there you go you know paying attention but not not writing uh and um on instagram i'm jason underscore ritter uh but i haven't posted there in a while but it's fun to look through you're out there you're working on a couple of things we'll be able to see jason on the screen sooner than later yes and i and i will let you know uh on those twitter uh things so if you follow me on there then yeah and i'll i'll be sure to tell you awesome uh thanks so much jason thanks so much guys for listening uh i hope you enjoyed this this recap be sure to check out if you haven't our ethnic episode from monday maybe our best my best ethnic performance

of all time and then tomorrow a fantastic episode um talking about uh you might be interested in this Jason human design alright we find out yeah with a world renowned expert in human design Jenna Zoe breaks down what is human design how can we learn about ourselves through human

design what is the science behind it and where you could go to find out more about yourself and it was really fascinating where you could go to find out more about yourself. And it was really fascinating. So you'd be sure to check that out. And send your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com, cast with a K, castmedia.com. Here's five stars, all that fun stuff.

We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.