The Viall Files - E244 Human Design with Jenna Zoe

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

Today on The Viall Files we are joined by Jenna Zoe. Jenna is a world-leading expert in Human Design, a new system of self-discovery helping reconnect people to who they came to be. She presents it through a lens of acceptance and kindness which has resonated with hundreds of thousands around the globe and turned it into a mainstream obsession. Her main goal is to help people truly understand who they are and how they function, so that they can spend their energy emphasizing their unique gifts and talents, rather than trying to be more like how they’re being conditioned to be. She helps us dive into the benefits of Human Design in relationships and gives Nick a reading of his own.  “In Relationships … when you’re attracted to someone,  it’s about knowing how to work with what you got. Let me sit with your manual and you sit with my manual and lets see what’s the best mechanics to set up , so this can work in harmony.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Upstart: http://www.upstart.com/VIALL  to find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today. Nextdoor: http://www.nextdoor.com/VIALL to sign up and see what your neighbors are talking about. Be sure to use the link to sign up, so they know you support our show. BetterHelp: http://www.betterhelp.com/VIALLFILES to start living a happier life today.  Natural Habits: http://www.nhoils.com use code KRISSY for 25% off your order.  Episode Socials: @viallfiles@nickviall@jennaazoe www.myhumandesign.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's Nick. We have a great episode for you today. It's about human design. Have you ever wondered why you were made the way you are? Nature versus nurture kind of thing? Are you into horoscopes, personality tests? Well, we have a great episode for you uh human design is something i recently learned about thought it'd be fascinating more importantly i thought you dear listener would be super into this topic and i'm here to please you so we

brought the world one of the world's leading experts in human design jenna zoe she was so gracious with her time and uh she recorded an episode all the way from Switzerland. Yeah. Which I just find fascinating. I've never been. I wanted to go. That was like a full on Zoom production. So if the quality is a little, you know, it's like far.

We did our best. Oh, well, yeah. I actually recorded it out of my house. Yeah. So if you're for the people watching at home, hi. Welcome to my bookshelf. Amanda and Allie are with us. You can't hear a salute.

They're doing hand signals today. They also thought this episode was... Fascinating. Mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. So I really think you guys will like it. Fascinating. Mind-blowing.

Mind-blowing. So I really think you guys will like it. Nothing really new to report on my end other than thanks for listening. Tell your friends. Anyways, it's about to get wild. Get ready. Human Design is coming at you with Jenna Zoe. Hey, everybody.

Jenna, thank you so much for joining us. I'm really excited to talk to you so as we mentioned to uh our audience you are the or one of world uh leading experts in human design is that correct yes yes um say that sounds funny but yes yeah but I don't know how many people are familiar with what human design is. I didn't hear of it until just this week when I was made aware of who you were and thought, wow, this is really fascinating. We're always on the show kind of looking for different ways to understand ourselves, understand why we do things. I think, you know, we're always trying to like, yeah, I guess get to know ourselves. You know, we always kind of have these habits and personalities. And sometimes we wonder, is it do we get it from our parents?

Do we get it from our surroundings? Nature versus nurture type of stuff. do we get it from our parents do we get it from our surroundings nature versus nurture type of stuff and it seems like human design is a pseudoscience that you know you know might help us give us some answers or people use to you know get some insight into their own lives and so i guess why don't you give us a little background about what it is and how you found it. Yeah. So it is a very new science and art. It was only discovered about 34 years ago and it was channeled or created by a guy who he heard a voice say to him, you know, go into meditation. He was already practiced in meditation, but he heard a voice saying,

started speaking to him. And basically what this voice was saying was that, you know, there's a lot of ancient wisdoms like astrology, the chakra system, the Chinese I Ching and Kabbalah that have been around for many years. And the voice was basically saying there's a way to combine all of these to, I guess, like a new sort of upgraded fashion of actually being able to look at how each individual's unique energy functions. So the idea behind human design is that we're all created very differently. We all have a different design. And so therefore, us living in a world which says, this is the way to be successful, this is the way to be happy, this is the way to make money or have a happy relationship fails most of us because most of us aren't built the same way. And so it's about actually breaking us out of like this idea that everything is homogenous for everyone.

And when you know how you're uniquely designed, then that's how you know what your kind of like custom system or your custom roadmap looks like to the success, the love, the joy, the ease, the, you know, all the things that you want. So you're kind of like working with your energy rather than against it. And, you know, an easy way to figure out if you're working against your energy is whenever you come up across like, you know, where there isn't flow in your life, that's usually the universe's way of saying, you know, there's something you need to change here. I'm not kind of opening the doors for you so easily because this is not the way you're meant to be doing it. And so when we employ our energy correctly, yeah, it's just a lot more easy manifesting or making things happen, if you will.

So basically what this guy did was he, you know, he had this information channeled into him. And the idea behind it is that it's a scientific calculation because it's based like astrology based on the positions of the planets on the day and minute and time and place that you were born. The idea behind that being is that, you know, where you are right now, Nick has a specific type of energy and where I am right now has a certain type of energy. And therefore, when my soul is choosing to come in, it's going to choose a sort of perfect portal of energy through which it can come. And what we want to do is we want to figure out what that energy was like on the day and time and place you were born, because that's who you really are. That's your kind of like baseline energy. And so becoming your best self or whatever you want to call it

isn't really about becoming much. It's about unbecoming or going back to who you were before the world told you how to be, before you were conditioned. And so that's how we can look at a chart that we put all your birth details into a piece of software and we can figure out by looking at that, what are the certain traits and qualities and skills that you chose to come here with? And how can we then focus you on those rather than the things that you think you might have to learn how to do in order to get what you want?

Oh, interesting. So when you say, are you like referring to like our soul? When you say are you like referring to like our soul when you say like when you say we that the skills or tools we chose to come here with like you know what i'm saying like is that like a divine presence uh like when you and again when you say a voice i mean who is the guy who who came up with it what was his name for people who want to maybe do some research on him yeah his. His name was Ra Aruhu. If you Google the history of human design, it's, it's all there. It took place from the 3rd of January until the 11th of January in 1987. And he basically sat in a nightdia meditation and this all just came to him.

This idea of like, if you look at a human design chart, which you can do, if you go to myhumandesign.com and put in your birth information, you'll see what a chart looks like. And basically you'll see, it kind of looks like the chakras. It's like a mapping of your energy body. And it's based on the idea that if you want to get a little scientific with me now, it's based on the idea that we live in a sea of neutrinos. Neutrinos are subatomic particles that basically they all contain energy and they all contain information. And a lot of the subatomic particle streams, the major ones that are coming to planet Earth right now, are coming from Earth itself, the sun and the different planets within our solar system.

And so essentially mapping the position of all those different things and the angles that they were in the day you're born kind of tells you what energies were coming from which angles, directions, which ones you were receiving, which ones you kind of chose to not be receiving, essentially. And so that tells you about what it was that you needed for this lifetime, if you believe in karma, if you believe in achieving what you came to achieve, whatever languaging you like to use. But interestingly enough, you know, you asked me about soul. The guy, Ra, he was actually not spiritual or religious much at all. He didn't talk about soul. He kind of was like very, you know, he was very sort of like rudimentary and crude about life on earth.

So what's cool about that is I do believe that this is something in my experience has been able to appeal to people who are very, very spiritual. And then people who are just more kind of like, you know what, I just need tools, give them to me. And you know, that's all I need to know. Fuck credit card debt. Hey, listen, we like to buy things, we get excited. And then we like, hey, screw it, I'll worry about it later. But now you have to worry about it now when Upstart can help you solve those problems that you're so afraid to face. That's right, because your credit cards, those bills are adding up. And Upstart is here to help you deal with it, help you pay down your loans. Upstart is the fastest and easiest way to get a personal loan to pay off your debt

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that's upstart.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Don't forget to use the URL to let them know we sent you. That is right. Loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information providing your loan application. Go to Upstart.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Yeah. Well, one question that actually Amanda came up with,

and it's interesting. You're seeing a rise in some of these, call it alternative points of view, pseudosciences or things like that, astrology, human design, like the chakra. And maybe they've been, you know, some of them have been around forever, enneagrams and personality tests. Like, are they seen by, say, someone like you? It's not like necessarily considered religion. They can go, like, if someone's Christian or Buddhist or whatever they might practice, they can still look into human design and benefit from it.

Like you said, it seems like you kind of reverse engineer. You kind of go back to the beginning when someone was born and, like you said, understand the energy that they were receiving when they were born. Is that something that people then can use, whether it's in the profession they're in, or the relationship they're in to enhance the situation they're in? Or is it more of maybe helping someone kind of alter where, you know, the direction they go in their life, you know, if all of a sudden, you're just like, Oh, wait, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I don't want to be an accountant anymore. You know, like, no wonder I hate my job, or does it allow us to maybe just make subtle changes in our lives to just overall feel more fulfilled? It's not to say, oh, you should be an artist. It's not really that it's about

how to use your energy. So let's say, for example, I might tell you that you were designed to be inconsistent, and therefore a morning routine is never going to work for you. It's not going to bring out the best in you because inconsistency is in your chart and so whenever you're trying to fit into a routine it's actually going to constrict your energy and actually not make you feel as free it's not going to make you feel like oh I can just automate it and then it's going to get the best out of me for my day like for half the population that works and the other half it doesn't work right so what I like about it so much is that it's practical and so it is exactly like this is how you can show up better in a relationship this is

how you can show up better at work these are the traits that you need to be bringing more at the forefront of what you offer and what you kind of you know apply into everything that you do so it's very practical which I like because I do feel and I was someone who was kind of lost for my whole entire 20s you know chasing a lot of spiritual and also success and motivational tools but not feeling like all of them necessarily would give me like the the total kind of result or bring me back to myself and so I still was feeling very off center. So the cool thing about this is it's like, oh no, this is not you doing it my way. Cause I'm like a guru or a, you know, success coach or anything like that. It's just, this is your way and remember that. And so then you can make those practical adjustments, like giving up your

morning routine. If you are inconsistent. That's just one example. Or if your digestion is to eat hot food, then you stop drinking ice cold smoothies and cold lattes and those types of things. But then there's other things like some people are supposed to be motivated by money. Some people are supposed to be motivated by fame or being seen or this idea that they want to make an impact. Some people are not supposed to be motivated by any of those things. So it runs, it actually runs a whole gamut and it's incredibly deep.

You know, you can go eight, 10 hours into one person's design. The world is burning my friends. And Puss in Design. The world is burning, my friends. The world is on fire. I feel a little nutty sometimes. I need to talk about it. That's all I'm saying. If there's something interfering with my happiest, I like to talk to a mental health care professional to help me get back to neutral. And BetterHelp is helping people across the country, quite frankly, across the world,

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to dealing with those headaches. It's a first approach, right? And it may not be the all-vail, it's not a cure-all, but it's certainly a great way to limit the amount of medications or certainly ibuprofen that you're using to deal with your headaches. And when you feel one coming on, quick use those oils, and often it deals with it right away. nhoyles.com, code CHRISSY, 25% off. That's very cool. That's fascinating. How long have you been doing this?

I discovered human design, I think, eight years ago now. And I've been doing it properly professionally for four. is it important for you to get them to understand their chart or at least for you to understand? Or do you kind of like, you know, listen, this is my profession. If you want to, I'm open to it, but you let kind of people come to you when they're ready, which I'm just kind of curious. Yeah, it's a good question. And actually that will also depend on your chart. So how you put things on people depends on your energy as well. and so for me which is the same as you actually we're the same energy type which is a type called a projector there are five types um we have to be invited meaning that people need to want us to tell them there's something before we can kind of just like volunteer our like wisdom or our guidance or our knowledge or whatever it is

that we're going to share with people so there has has to be the desire from, from another person. We can't just be like, I want to, you know, do tell you this or blah, blah, blah. I've always kind of waited until I, people, I gauge some level of interest in people. It doesn't necessarily mean that they were kind of vocally expressing interest, but I kind of sense that they were, they were into it. So for example, like my dad still hasn't asked me and therefore we haven't talked about it, but I've obviously looked to his to help me understand him better. And I'll never forget that one of the most healing, beautiful moments of my relationship with my mom was her asking me to read her chart. And when I did, there was so many things that she does

that I'd assume she does them for the same reasons that I do them. And that's what created judgment in me for her. But seeing how she works created so much acceptance and so much understanding from me to her that it was actually a beautiful moment because I saw how differently to me that she's built and then was able to revere and respect how she is for who she is. So mostly, you know, now that it's however many years then people do ask me, but in the beginning, definitely no one was interested. That's for sure. And I, and I just waited. It sounds like this could be a tool for people in all sorts of relationships who are having conflict to do. And, you know, whether they believe in it or not, you know, where they might sit down and find, like you said, I mean, a lot of any relationship that's having problems. Like you said, there's judgment, there's misunderstanding.

You know, you go in any relationship that starts, there's a lot of love and there's a lot of excitement. And over time that can change, right? Because we change as individuals, you know, we, new forces and new people come into play. We make friends, we change careers. And as we grow, sometimes we can grow apart with even the people we feel like we should be closest with. And that comes with that as that judgment and that misconceptions of each other. And I can see how like if you do this in a relationship, it might open some doors where you feel like

you get some information where you could be misunderstanding one another. I suppose you have to be open-minded to a certain extent. Otherwise, you're just like, oh, that's stupid. But as you say, I'm guessing a lot of times when you read people, they're charged whether they're resistant or not. There's some aha moments of like do you find people who are like, oh, this is, I don't know, it's hocus-pocus stuff. But they reluctantly sit down and read their chart and all of a sudden there's this light bulb start going off is that happen a lot for you myself anymore um because i created a whole business

out of it now i train people to be readers and and that whole thing but um sure it used to happen to me a lot with women i would do their readings and they'd be like, oh, you have to do one for my boyfriend. And, you know, they'd kind of come on and be like, okay, yeah, yeah. But, you know, there's no denying when you tell someone what they're like that if you're accurate about it, then you usually get a positive result. And most people, whether or not they're spiritual seekers, most people want to know what more of what they are. Most people want to hear about how they function, how they work and everything. We definitely like to hear more about us, for sure.

Most people are, regardless of what their chart says, we're pretty eager to hear about ourselves. I think for most people, there is a sincere desire to understand themselves. I think as we do get older you know and we separate from our parents nests so to speak and we go out into the world i think that's why i think a lot of people in their 20s feel sometimes literally lost you know they're maybe even in their 30s sometimes even as they get older it is they they sometimes fail they look in the mirror and either don't like who they are,

don't recognize who they are, or they just feel a bit of a disconnect. And there's always this ongoing desire for people to continue to find that. Because when we have those moments in our lives where we're either humbled or we face some sort of adversity. It allows us to be a little bit more open. And when we do that, there's a very comforting feeling of, you know, being okay. And that almost acceptance for ourselves, right? Like we judge, you know, you talk about judgment and acceptance with people in our lives, but we do that with ourselves all the time. I fucking hate that about me. Or why do I do what I do? You know, especially when other people are like, God, it's so annoying about you. Why do you do that?

And you're like, I honestly wish I knew why I hate it, too. I understand it's a weakness of mine. And it's we get very frustrated with ourselves often. And when you can understand the reasons why, whether they're because that's part of who you inherently are and it's there for a reason or you do it because you felt like you had to start doing it at some point along the way and therefore you're now free to drop it both of those realizations are beautiful so i might find out why i refuse to fold laundry or close cabinet doors behind me and then when i find out the reason why i can tell everyone around me that i i no longer have to feel guilty or responsible because just because you told me I have to leave closed cabinet doors, like I don't necessarily have to.

Well, you're actually you're somebody who's very efficient and you only want to do things that you think is going to have like a direct use. So I'm literally just picking that up from your chart now. So I'm literally just picking that up from your chart now. And so therefore, if you don't think that you're necessarily going to get like a, if there's not an obvious benefit to you for doing that, you are going to want to conserve your energy, whether consciously or, or that's just kind of part of the patterning. So doing those things, or that might seem like a waste of your time and attention. Wow. That makes a lot of sense.

Should we, should we dive into my chart as a way for people to kind of understand how yeah absolutely um so as i was saying to you uh you know how in astrology you have like your sun sign and you have your moon sign and you're rising all these different types of aspects yeah yeah i'm i'm familiar with those terms i haven't had someone fully read my chart oh you should get um oh i have a good astrologer for you if you want to interview somebody someone who she's yeah i we had one we we we talked to my yeah i don't know if you know who ricky williams is he's a former football player but he's been he since has very passionate in astrology we had a really rich episode about him he didn't he didn't

read my chart on the show but uh we did talk a lot about it but uh yeah so but i am familiar with those terms um you're sort of like top line thing that you can look at if you're looking at your chart in human design which is like the same as looking at what's your sun sign it's the only if it's the only thing you know in astrology is like what's your sign right um what we have in human design is called energy type and your energy type is basically the the it describes to you how you use your energy best so how you exchange energy with other people how you use it how you get it those types of things um and so you are what's called a projector in human design and a projector is a person who basically is not here to you know do do do do do

a projector is here because they see something in a different way that other people don't see. And so therefore they're not here to create energy necessarily. They're here to shape and guide other people's energy. So I like to tell people that projectors are like the birds up in the trees and all the sort of like, you know, animals are trying to find a way through the jungle or whatever. And the birds are the ones that say, you know, go this way or try it like this, or this is a quicker way to get there. Or so they're kind of like tweaking and hacking and improving and upgrading. And essentially, you know, the big thing about being a projector is if you try to compete and be like a lion and a tiger and all those kinds of things,

then you're always going to end up feeling bitter, actually, and feeling annoyed that you're not more successful than you are. And so as a projector, it's really important to understand that you are here as a guide for the rest of society. So that doesn't necessarily mean like directly a guide, like, you know, me sitting here and telling someone one on one whatone what to do. You have, I mean, I know projectors that are lawyers, projectors that design tech, because they can obviously see how, you know, things can be made better and improvement. It's not about what you do. It's about the energy that you bring to what you do, basically. The other thing is that the second thing that you look at when you look at someone's human design is that you look at what is it in

their body that makes their major life decisions, how their intuition functions, right? And everybody has a part of their body that is kind of like the MVP of their decision-making and of their intuition. And yours is your instinct. So for you, like, I don't know if you've ever even identified, you know, this whole explanation of, you know, it's a gut feeling, you feel it in your gut, I would, I would hazard a guess that you've never actually viscerally physically felt it in your gut, when something's telling you it's on or off, it's more of an instinct for you, which is like that quicker kind of just like, it's a yes or no, it's a hit, like you just kind

of understand it, like either it's, you're getting it or you're not getting it. Yeah. I've, I've, I've always excelled. Yes. So the instinct that is housed in the spleen. And so that means that your intuition is splenic. So that means that you're so far, you would call yourself a splenic projector. And so the spleen is the part of you that, you know, gets to make all your major life decisions. So when you are, um, you know, trying to, when you're at a fork in the road or trying to decide what to make all your major life decisions. So when you are, you know, trying to, when you're at a fork in the road or trying to decide what to do with your life, usually what happens with the spleen and how that intuition functions is that it's right in the moment. And it only speaks to you that one time. So the spleen is like a small, quiet voice that kind of passes

you by in the moment and says, yes. And you might not even know why. And it never, it won't make logical sense. You won't know why you just felt the yes or why you might not even know why. And it never, it won't make logical sense. You won't know why you just felt the yes or why you just felt the no. But the thing about the spleen is it only speaks to that one time. And so the best thing to do for people who are trying to refine their intuition, if the spleen is their kind of main intuition, is to note down what that voice said to you in the moment, because what will then probably happen to you is we've all been conditioned to believe it's the mind that's supposed to be making the decision. So then you'll go away and say, but I should do this. And this makes sense, especially because

you also have quite a propensity for logic though, as well. Right. And you have a good propensity and tendency towards analysis and kind of honing in on all of that. That's wonderful. And that's supposed to be used for other things like projects that you put your energy into, but it's not meant to be used for how you make your life decisions. So the best thing to do is actually to write down like even just notes on your phone of what those splenic hits say to you in the moment. Let the time pass, analyze it, allow yourself to do all that, but then revisit it and see what the spleen was telling you. And even if you're not necessarily brave enough to listen to what the spleen was telling you and do what the spleen was telling you, what will happen is you'll build up enough evidence over

time to see that the spleen was actually leading you in the right direction. And then that will be easier to trust the spleen and get out of the mind and into the instinct. Now, just to kind of give you the full gamut, for some people, they are meant to be using their mind. A very, very small percentage of the population, actually only 2%. Most people are supposed to be using their emotions. Some people are supposed to be using their gut. Some people are supposed to be using their heart and their ego. Some people are supposed to be using other people to like rebound off and kind of like discuss things with people and use other people as a sounding board. So if you're sitting here thinking like, oh, isn't everyone's instinct, which is a lot of people when they hear about themselves, they're like, doesn't everyone

function like that? The answer is definitely no. And there are genuinely some people, a lot of people that do feel it in their gut, right? So it's important to make that distinction because each one of those functions in such a different fashion. Now, you're also what's called a 3-5, and that's your profile in human design. So that's your third thing. And the profile in human design is kind of like your personality and how you show up. And the 3-5 in human design, which is yours, and there are 12. The 3-5, which is yours, is what we call the great life experimenter.

So what that means is that you don't learn by what you read in books. You weren't born just knowing everything and not needing to go through it. You learn by life, right? So you learn by like trying things out and experimenting and like what life has kind of taught you based on the experiences that you go through. Now for three, five people, they're the most lovable and relatable people because they've actually been through so many like ups and downs and their life kind of feels like a roller coaster and it's like worthy of a movie usually. Right. So for you, your kind of life is always feeling like, you know, it's got many different colorful

experiences to it. But the reason why you go through those things is so that other people can then learn vicariously through you, because you've, it's like almost having a CV for knowing what you share, because you can say, I've been through these things. And that's how I've, that's how I can back up what I know is because I have the experience, right. And so for you, like, you know, doing a lot of reading and learning and absorbing information is great if it's part of your passion and, and it will be because you're a projector. So you do love to learn, but that's not how you absorb information. How you get to wisdom is through life. Now on the outside, on the outside world of you, like the inside world of you is like, I try and I fail and these

roller coasters, but a lot of other people around you don't see that part of you. So how you see yourself is never how other people see you. Other people see you as someone who wants to help everybody, someone who wants to save the day, someone who's very personable, someone who likes, who's as friendly and as interested in like friends and strangers alike and likes to champion friends and strangers alike. And yes, people, like I said, people like to live very, learn very vicariously through you. So, you know, that's very, it's a very important part of how you, how you show up. Has the pandemic been just quite challenging on you because of just not meeting, being able to like meet people or see people or any of that stuff? Yes and no. You know, I'm thinking about all the things you

were saying, kind of digesting it. I kind of borderline on both introvert and extrovert. I have, I have both tendencies. I very much miss a lot of the aspects that the pandemic took away from us being in crowds. Like I love the extrovert part of me loves going to events and crowds or even movie theaters and feeling the energy of the crowd and the experience. The introvert in me will want to hone in

on a small group of people and just have rich dialogue there. And you know what I'm saying? And not necessarily be like, I don't want to talk to everyone. I want to like find specific conversations to have, right? You know, sometimes I can be, I've been described by people as either aloof or intimidating because sometimes I'm in my head thinking about things, but I do like interacting with people. But sometimes I like doing it on my own terms, if that makes sense. So in the beginning of the pandemic, I was okay. I kind of thrived.

I was almost, at first I was like, this isn't so bad. Part of it was because I was like, well, I don't feel, the thing I'm not, I don't feel FOMO, you know? It was like, no one else is doing anything, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. And then over time, it's been draining where I've been missing the energy of people. And so when we started getting out a little bit or even just, you know, going to the studio

instead of recording from home like those little moments were really rewarding for me just because I was able to have some interaction with with just people so yes absolutely so and it is interesting because I like what you say and it's perfectly said that most people are do have some aspects of introversion and aspects of extroversion. I think we've been taught that it's a scale, sorry, that it's a binary, but it's a scale. So, you know, for you, the introversion parts of you are because you really see into people when you're interacting with someone. So your aura is very penetrating into the other. And so you do, your energy does

work really well when it's like focused on people and just kind of really going into a person. It's not, you know, just having a large, like it's, that's not how you use your gifts best. But on the other hand, you know, the five part of that three, five, which is the external part of you, the three is the internal, the five, you know, does need the kind of that, the five, you know, does need the kind of that, that sort of like universality of people, the connection to, you know, just getting in an Uber and, you know, just seeing life and the world and that sort of, you know, happening as it happens. So it is interesting, you know, one of the big things I do try to do is get people away from I'm an introvert or I'm an extrovert because you're always locking away a different, another aspect of how your introversion specifically looks to you or how your extroversion specifically looks to you. then we decide which one we are and then we immediately start judging ourselves or or you know like we have these preconceived notions of what it means and then therefore we start

you know it kind of warps over yeah i don't think it helps us understand it almost makes us start judging ourselves a little bit more because i think so many people see it as binary we caught literally half of our real self off or the connection to that other half off because we stop identifying with it right um and that's another big problem with you know a lot of the languaging around personality and describing oneself and getting to know oneself these days is it isn't nuanced enough it isn't we're not comfortable as a society living in the nuance we want to say i'm either this or i'm that you're either open-minded or closed-minded instead of saying you know what some people are very open-minded in areas

that they like to be open-minded in. And then everyone is actually closed-minded in areas where they are a bit blocked themselves or areas where they have fear of, you know, not being so binary or black and white or where they've been taught that it's that way. And they don't want to, you know, remove themselves from that construct for whatever reason. So getting people more comfortable in the nuance is also what breeds a lot of acceptance, not only for themselves, but then also mostly for other people. And as we can see, that's a huge problem that is impeding us as a society right now. Before we continue on to my chart, I had a question that you mentioned. You mentioned for me, the spleen, my gut, the intuition. But you mentioned you know you mentioned like for me like the spleen my

gut the intuition but you mentioned some people should be listening to their egos and i find that very fascinating because i often tell like my audience just like our egos are terribly just never like it's never uh telling us useful things but you would argue that there are certain groups of people that might benefit them from them can Can you explain that? It depends how you define the ego. If there's a lot of spiritual texts that describe, they use the word ego for the fear voice or the negative voice inside of you. The original, the Freudian sort of concept of ego is the sense of I and what do I want, right? And so for some people, it's healthy for them to be making decisions based on what their egoic material wants are.

So, you know, based on do I, is this gonna benefit, is this gonna get me, make me money? Is this gonna make me successful? You know, and that's what they go by basically. And in human design, the ego and the heart are the same thing. So it's not this concept of ego of like that evil voice inside you that's going to destroy you. The ego is the sense of I in the truly sort of like in the psychoanalytical definition of ego, basically. so yeah that there are uh some people who are egoic um and it's energetically correct for them to be operating by listening to the ego because they actually don't have

consistent emotions gut or or splenic instincts like your like yours um to go on to rely on very cool that's really cool um so i was going to say to you, you are what's called a non-emotional in human design. It's really interesting because about 50% of the population is emotional and 50% of the population is non-emotional. And I'll go on to explain to you what those are, but essentially, you know, and my, the, the person who taught me human design, you know, said to me that it's almost a bigger distinction between being male. But it's like bigger of a difference than male and female, like being emotional versus

being non-emotional. And to really understand this, this is a big one for relationships. Like if I'm ever, ever the first thing that I look at, if I'm doing a chart for a couple, you know, and there's conflict or whatever, this is always the biggest thing to look at and the first thing to look at. So this is actually probably going to be quite interesting for your audience. So you're what's called a non-emotional. What does that mean? That doesn't mean that you don't feel emotions. It means that you only feel emotions if something is happening, right? Like a situation outside of you is causing the emotion or a person that is walking into the room and because you're a sponge for emotions, because you absorb other people's emotions and you can feel

and magnify other people's emotions, you're picking up on those things. And therefore, that's why you're feeling them. So for me, for example, I'm an emotional and I don't pick up on what other people are feeling. So if I walk into the room with you and I'm feeling a level like two out of 10 annoyed, I'll have zero visibility on the fact that I'm annoyed, but you're going to feel that. And you're going to feel it in your body in like a six out of 10 way. And if you don't know that that's coming from me, then I'm going to look at you and say, why are you annoyed? Because you're magnifying that and reflecting that back to me. And you're

going to say, I don't know. And I'm going to blame you. But if you don't know that what you're picking up on is magnifying what I'm doing, then originally you're supposed to serve as a mirror for me to help me see what kind of just mood I just happen to be randomly in that day, which is what emotional people are. We can wake up sometimes and be happy for no reason or sad for no reason. And we live our whole lives on these emotional waves, right? So often in a relationship, you have to look at who is the emotional, who is the one that has these ups and downs, and who is the mirror. And sometimes you have two emotionals and sometimes you have two non-emotionals too, and those are different dynamics as well. But it's really interesting to know sometimes the non-emotional people actually get called the most reactive or the most emotional because they are reflecting and magnifying what the emotional person doesn't

see that they themselves are feeling. So for you, you know, what I would do is that whenever you feel like overly happy or overly sad, it serves as intel and it makes you very emotionally intelligent and very empathic because that's a signal that someone else who's around you who might be probably unaware of what it is that they're going so they can hopefully um you know get out of this kind of being mired by your own emotion so much that emotional people uh are in perpetually and don't always see yeah so if i if i felt like or i've been told that i'm good at reading situations or great at reading people and that that would help explain that's one of the ways in which you're good at reading people the other way that you're really good at reading people is in um there's another center in your chart called the g center and that's to do with um being able to read the room read the the different i guess like vibes of people because um you can be quite a chameleon and you can walk

into a room and feel what the room needs from you and kind of present that rather than just like, think about that spiritual advice of like, always be yourself. For you, it's not that you're not being yourself, but you know which different aspects to kind of pull out because you're quite good at reading the room. So your center for identity is actually quite open and flexible. then also you can you can sense agendas and people's motivations very easily so the way that you read people is across usually those three uh forms combined most people have one way at least in which they can kind of feel people one of those ways is usually the primary way um and so those would be your three being able to read people's motivations is something i've always felt like it's come very easily to me.

Yeah, and you can, you know, those kind of motivations are not always necessarily negative. It's about the consciousness behind those things that drives those things. So, for example, some people it's energetically correct that they just want to make a ton of money. And yeah, you can sense that. And so if you sense that in somebody and they're, for example, in denial of it, you can actually help them to say, hey, this actually is a good thing for you. And I think you should chase that and embrace that, you know, or you see someone that, you know, is trying to chase fame, but they're doing it with the wrong kind of consciousness. You can also, that's one of the ways that I think you can really guide people in terms of like

helping them define what they're motivated by and what they're, that's actually, I would say that's a, that's a good focus of yours, you know, helping people refine their, what drives them in life. Interesting. Yeah. We, I do a little bit of that already, but yes yes that's yeah yeah on this podcast we have a show where people call it and ask for questions that's amazing and um actually the question asking format is perfect for you because you have what's called a passive brain so a passive brain doesn't always know what it knows like let's say for example the back of everything you know is like a huge library okay but you've spent years putting things in that library so you don't know what you know sometimes it takes a person coming and asking you the question and also don't forget

the question is the invitation what we were speaking about in the beginning of being a projector the question is the invitation of that person saying you know i need your guidance tell me what you have that that format works perfectly for for your energy type being a projector people wanting your guidance but it also helps you pick out the best information because the the very presence of someone asking a question helps pull it out of you more easily than if you were just to okay nick take the stage and talk about this for 45 minutes type of thing um so that works very well for you actually might be the most relatable thing you said to me because i do feel that where if someone were to be like if i i need that guide and the guidance is the question i get that a lot you know too it's just

like i don't really know how to start for me it's the it's the match of and then once I get the question that just that that mindset really felt very relatable to my brain in terms of I feel very comfortable going and sitting down and saying all right what do you have like there's no preparation I just have it there I just need a place to start to go get it. And that's, that's really, that was, that's, yeah, that was really. Do you want to talk a little bit about your digestion? For you, it's actually very healthy. I know there's a lot of, and this is one of my favorite things to do. One of, one of the things that is so fundamental to human design

and human design, you have what's called the four transformations which are four different things to get really aligned in your life to um how do i put this to develop your genius and the first one to get right is the body right like the food the digestion the all those types of things and so um you know one of the it's one of the big focuses of what i like to talk about because if you get the body right then usually the brain and the mind and the spirit whatever you want to call it sort of can fall into place but you need to have that right foundation first and um you know there's a lot of health information that says you need to get the variety in and you need to switch it up and blah blah blah for you it's actually very you already know what you're not going to like before you try it and um it's actually yes it's good for you to eat the same thing every day and it's actually good for you to only change season as well

to only change what you eat seasonally so for you to eat the same breakfast lunch in three months is actually good because it helps you yeah is it you do that already that's great that's awesome yeah well it's it's it's a huge help um but the maybe the nice thing about knowing it even if you're doing it already is like okay now i never have to question it i never have to think oh my god but what if i'm missing out on this i've i've been defensive about this with people who are in my surroundings of like telling me I need more variety or I need to mix it up. And I'm like, why? I don't understand. And then when I do, I'm always disappointed, you know, in that sense of like, and that there's certain levels that I've, I've tried more and more things. And sometimes

I'm surprised and pleasantly surprised, but most of the time it's just like, I, I, for example, like I'm going to this restaurant because there's a particular meal of food that I like. I'm going to that restaurant for that meal. I'm not going there. Like my dad will be like, Oh, well there's so many options. Let's take advantage of the options. I'm like, no, no, I'm coming for this. And I, I, I've, I've i i've i've had to i've had to defend my my wanting to go to get that particular meal there are restaurants that i've gotten the same meal at for wonderful for 15 years you know and that's just who i am and i i'm tired of having

to defend that there we go you've got it recorded um i've never met you before i've never seen you eat nothing so um well the reason why you are that way is because um you have a very old digestive system which originates from the time when we as species started gathering right so after hunting you started we had gathering and um you know when you gather things were very seasonal things, you know, if you, if there was apples in season for the whole of fall, then you would just be eating apples all day. And so your system doesn't like the variety because it, it, it doesn't, it runs right counter to how, you know, your digestive, your digestive system is built. So I'll give you, I'll give you an example is Nadine Leopold. She's an ex-Victoria

secret supermodel. She has the same digestive system as you. And she tells a story of when, you know, before she thought she had to, you know, eat certain ways to get skinny and prepare for the runway and the whole thing. And against all conventional, God knows what, she now looks better, feels better, everything, because she eats, she's happy. She eats sushi every night. She wakes up and has the same breakfast, the same lunch. It's not necessarily the healthiest thing, but she just has it on automation and she's so happy and she's thriving and the whole thing. So, you know, what we know about these things and what we think is like, it's true for everyone or this is fact or this is science.

It just doesn't, we're really waking up to the fact that we all are so different. Actually on the level of digestion, a very big part of what you are here to do though is to treat your body very well, is to kind of do a lot of the you know taking care of yourself learning to love your physicality be in your physicality as well is a very big part of your sort of karmic journey if you believe in incarnations this specific

lifetime for you it hasn't been a part of every single lifetime so it's not like just a part of who you are it's a part of who you chose to be this time around so there's actually a lesson there which for you I see as really being because you do take that logical part of you so easily and because you do find it very easy to analyze and be very um I forget which one they call it left brain or right brain which is the one that's like very, you know, I think left brain. I can't remember. Yeah. Whatever that is.

So part of it is because you also in your mind, you know, whenever you're in your mind, you're not physically feeling your body and in your body. So for you, there's a really strong need to marry the two together. And obviously a lot of your, a lot of your personal power and mastery will come from being able to kind of know when it's right to switch between both, taking the cues from your body, and then using your mind more for the outside than for yourself.

So you actually, every time you use your mind on yourself, imagine you wake up with a certain amount of battery that you use, that you have like brain power or mind power or whatever for the day. The more of it you use on thinking about yourself and analyzing yourself, the less of it you have available to develop your genius towards the outside world. And so what you want to do is automate your personal decisions so much for being from the spleen, being from that intuition, being from feeling your body, being from just eating that same thing every day and not thinking about it and not overanalyzing yourself so that you can conserve that brain batch, that daily brain battery on looking at the outside world and really doing what you do so well, which is being able to understand concepts quite easily

and also being able to explain them to people in a way that is very logical and easy to understand right so it's very easy for you to get inspired it's very easy for you to reach for insight and conclusions but you just don't want to be wasting it on on trying to figure out your own life that makes a lot of sense yeah and it's interesting when you say that like I can get consumed by my own bullshit so to speak but when i do it's probably when i am the i'm the most unsatisfied or the i feel the most miserable right whether there's something about myself that i i will start obsessing over for whatever reason i feel really out of sorts so that's interesting but it's difficult for you because you also feel a pressure to perfect so there is a drive your biggest kind of drive in life is actually to

keep on improving whether it's yourself or other people or seeing where things are not perfect and then knowing what it is that needs to be done in order to get it to perfect that that would make sense too yeah because when i am in my bullshit, it's that burning desire to either meet my expectations or what I perceive as others expectations. Yeah, absolutely. And so that, that's also very interesting in relationships, because a lot of the time people who have that, their partners feel subject to, you know, criticism or not feeling like they measure up. But on the positive side, you know, you can be a great, like, because you are a guide, you're a projector, you know, the person that you're with has to have that desire to want to know how to be better all the time and want the help and not see it as a, you know, as a negative thing, but, you know, have that same orientation towards that as you, because basically in human design,

when we talk about skills, there is no like, okay, you use, you use, you know, your ability to see what's, what could be perfected or see what could be better just with your kids, but not with your wife or your husband or not at work. The universe doesn't compartmentalize that way. So it's like, whenever we have a skill or a gift, we're supposed to bring it to every area of our outside life, if that makes sense. Like all the things, the different roles that we take on.

So you are going to be someone who's, you know, you're going to, you are going to write other people hard, you know, you're going to, you are, you are going to write other people hard, but it's a question of obviously knowing how to do it with when people are interested, right? Because you have to be invited. You have to make sure that the people in your life are interested in knowing to a certain extent, and that will give you the sign that they are the energetically correct people for you to be in to enter into a dynamic with. Because if it's wrong for you, then by default, it's also wrong for them. Right. So there has to be the invitation from them and their recognition of you as being able to do that and having that inclination.

And then you obviously communicating it in a way that is, you know, with high consciousness and stuff. But that's, you know, that's a sort of second layer of it all. It's really, really fascinating. Um, very cool. Uh, anything else that we should touch on? We could go on forever. Um, it's, it's, there's so many different layers to it, but I guess, um, because you said to me that a lot of listeners, a lot of your listeners are interested in relationships. I think one other thing that I want to say is that, you know, this science can tell you, for example, whether you're someone when you're in an argument,

whether you can process things very quickly and whether you can, you know, if you're in an argument, can you say it in the moment is how you feel and that's how you feel or which is you or can you, you know, oh, actually in the moment, you're not really saying anything that you mean. And then the next day you kind of digest it and think about it again. So I recommend for those people to not actually have those kind of straight confrontations in the moment, for example. And also some people's relationships are meant to be based on, sometimes you're attracted to people because there is a lot of harmony where that would mean that your relationship is mostly based on kind of friendship and similarity. Whereas on the other side of the scale, when you have a lot of

differences with people, then that creates a feeling of being complete by someone, but it also creates, and it creates a lot of physical chemistry, but it also means that there's not a lot of friendship and similarity and feeling like that person super duper understands you because they're built so differently. And obviously most people's relationships are somewhere in the middle of that scale, but, but I've seen relationships run the whole gamut of that. So again, there is no right or wrong. It's just what people, what people kind of fall for. And the biggest question that people ask me with relationships is like, well, is a projector good with a manifesting generator or it cannot, you know, what types match with what types? And the answer really is, is that it isn't about anyone being compatible and not compatible. If

you're attracted to somebody, then it's just about knowing how to work with what you've got. It's like, okay, let me sit with my manual and let me sit with your manual and let's see what's the best mechanics to set up so that this can work in harmony so that I'm not making, like you said in the beginning, not making assumptions, not misunderstanding why you're doing certain things, not kind of judging things at face value and jumping to conclusions all the stuff that causes a lot of heartache and and and um dichotomy in terms of our the ways that we come together interesting so it's not like you know our charts basically are just different puzzles that can be molded per se and every puzzle can fit we just almost have to transform it into a way that will fit by we have

to say things like you know um in a way for example like if someone if i was doing someone who was with you i would say you know if if um this is a silly this will be a silly one but like why nick doesn't like to try new foods is not because the reason that you've i don't know maybe this partner of yours, his father was super close to it. And so therefore she has a negative association with not trying new things. It's just because that is how his digestive system is set up. So that's how he gets to genius. And then all of a sudden that doesn't bother someone anymore, right? Cause it's like, oh, I see the reasons why behind it. So it's all about understanding, but it's also about

saying, you know, okay, both of us are non-emotionals. Let's say you're both non-emotionals in a relationship. Oh, that means that when one of us, something has happened to one of us at work and I bring that home and I feel super charged up by what I've picked up from everybody else, you're also a magnifier and I'm a magnifier. We're going to bounce what I picked up between us and it's going to escalate and escalate and escalate. And we can end up having a fight that's actually not about either of us. It's to do with what I brought home. And so with two non-emotions in a relationship, like, okay, there's a tool where when you both come together, you both recognize your

non-emotions that shake off everything we've taken, picked up from the rest of the day, because you and I are actually blank slates. So let's be blank slates, cool, calm and collected our natural state together. Right. So it's just about knowing these things and how do we make sure that we create harmony between the two different instruction manuals. Oh, that's really fascinating. I really appreciate you sharing all that. Before I let you go, I was perusing your Instagram and I saw this little section in your highlights, you talking about toxic femininity, or if I'm not saying that correctly. We talk a lot about toxic masculinity on this show and kind of redefining masculinity. And I think that's really great to do and something I've always kind of been passionate about because i've never considered myself to be more of the traditional like macho person but i've always you know like i've always

and so you've you've spoken a little bit about that and i just thought that might be something that my audience might be interested in hearing your thoughts on because i thought i thought it really fascinating well the first thing to say that i said i called it toxic femininity because then that gives people an easy reference point for what I'm talking about. But I personally don't resonate with the toxic thing anyway. Sure. I just feel like if there's a conversation around what men are doing wrong to create, or the masculine energy is doing to create a, you know, a lack of harmony in the world, then there's a lot that I feel that women do. And I, you know, I talk about this from personal experience too, and I've definitely

been there where women have been conditioned that the only way to get your way is to kind of be sweet and small and cute and to be liked by everybody. And then therefore that in itself is a way to gain approval, gain validation, get your way, those types of things, rather than just be centered in yourself and say what you want and speak up for your needs in just a very calm way. I think there's a lot of, you know, even the small things like, you know, how women we've been taught and it's very common, like finish sentences on a high, you know, these little things that are subtle that actually small in us and dampen us without anyone else participating in it, but we've done it ourselves. Right. And, you know, especially in relationships, a lot of the times when women say, oh, I was with such a narcissist or whatever,

it's like, hold on a second. If you believe that you create your reality and you pull in things that are an energetic match for you, then on some level, you're still running that program where it suits you for someone else to be the one that was in power and for you to be the sort of like-pleasing or small or cutesified type of way that, you know, you're not worth having needs or being heard because you can't be in the center of it yourself, so no one else can be there for you as well. And so I do personally feel like the feminine energy is just as wounded as the masculine energy in this type of world. And I think it's a lot more healthy to have a balanced discussion about, about where everybody is, has played a part in getting to us to this fracture place where we are now. Well said. That's a very interesting and something to think more on.

I can't thank you enough for taking the time. This has been a ton of fun, you know, learning about human design and sharing your information. Can you let my audience know if they want to learn more about human design and learn more about you, where they can find you and how they can just follow what you're doing? So to look up your human design, you go to myhumandesign.com. That's a software that I created myself because the current softwares were very outdated and only created for PC. The planetary alignments weren't so accurate. So I worked with an astrophysicist to create a more accurate piece of software. So it's on there. And once you've looked up your chart for free, which will tell you all the basic things, you can find a video for every single

aspect of your chart, all the different aspects we've talked about in your chart today. There's a 45-ish minute video describing each one. So if you add all those things up, you can get eight to 10 hours of content just about you. And then obviously you can do it for your kids, your family, your parents, your husbands, your wives, everybody. You can also book a reading with one of the readers that I've trained on my website as well and dive into our complete sort of video offering there. So it's all kind of under one roof, myhumandesign.com. And then on Instagram, we're just my.humandesign for all the heavy more human design info if you want to kind of learn along the way um and my personal instagram is just at jenna zoe that's j-e-n-n-a-z you guys say z-o-e awesome well thanks so much it's been a ton of fun i i really appreciate it uh thank you guys as always for listening um be sure to rate five

stars sending your questions at ask nick at cast me.com cast with a k as always uh hope you guys enjoyed this episode and if there is nothing else we will see you back on monday bye