The Viall Files - E253 Ask Nick - Traditional Reactions to Untraditional Relationships

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

Today on Ask Nick we start with a polyamorous couple that is leaving one relationship to start a new one, and is confused on how to speak publicly about their relationship without sharing too much. Next, we speak with a woman who has been in relationship after relationship and now she is trying to figure out how she can just be casual and not catch feelings right away. Our next caller is struggling with a co-parenting situation when he tries to use her son to take her parenting time away. Finally, we speak with someone who’s boyfriend is struggling with a childhood trauma that is affecting their relationship. While she is trying to be supportive, he does not want to take any steps to heal and she doesn't know what to do to keep his mental health in a safe place. “There is knowing what you need and then there is executing on that need despite your desires telling you differently.” Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Dipsea: http://www.dipseastories.com/VIALL for a 30 day free trial Chime: http://www.chime.com/VIALL  apply now to join the millions on Chime. Signup takes two minutes, and doesn’t affect your credit score! Episode Socials: Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody happy monday to you all i hope you are feeling good on this wonderful monday morning and if it's not monday hey I hope you're having a great day as well. We have a great episode for you. Before we get into that, joined by my lovely team, my producer Chrissy. Chrissy, say hi to the people. Hi to the people. Also, Chrissy, I just want to say thanks for just getting so many great guests on the show.

You put a lot of hard work into it. And if you like any of our guests, just say, thank you, Chrissy, in your car. Be like, oh my God, I love that guest. I mean, Chrissy's the reason why. As well as our callers. Chrissy does a great job of reading all these emails and picking the right ones for our show. So as well as we have Amanda and Allie,

part of the social syndicate in the studio with me today. How are you ladies doing? It seemed rhetorical. We're great. I mean, I don't know. Maybe you're not. Allie had like a- They're amazing.

They're great. Everyone's great. We have a great episode for you. Some great callers, some great questions, some great problems. I guess we don't want to call them great problems, but I don't know. Interesting. They're interesting topics. They're interesting topics.

Make sure to tune in on Wednesday for a fantastic episode with Logan Urie, who is the author of the book, How to Not Die Alone. We get into some fascinating discussions about relationships. She has studied relationships at Harvard and has wrote this very fascinating book about dating and knowing about non-negotiables and and pet peeves and the difference and it's a really fun conversation with logan um i think you guys will want to tune into that it's always fun to to dive into all the various aspects of relationships as, as you guys, anyone listening to this is going to want to listen to that.

I guess just give us some five stars. Always appreciative of your five stars on iTunes. If you guys want to take the time, I can't thank you enough. Can't thank you enough for sharing our episodes on your social media. It does make a big difference and we appreciate you spreading the, the, the good word about our podcast,

tagging us, tagging the show, telling your friends. Other than that, I say, let's get to our callers. Great. What's your time today?

Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's, who do we have? I'm Jaden. Hi, Jaden. How old are you? Good. Who do we have? I'm Jaden.

Hi, Jaden. How old are you? 34. All right. And then who else do we have with us? And I'm Richard. I'm 32. Hi, Richard. How can I help you guys? What's up? So I'm recently separated from my husband, who I had an open relationship with for about 16 years. My ex and I actually started dating Richard together about four months ago and things didn't work out with my husband. So we separated. We parted on good terms, but I moved in with Richard about a month ago. Okay. Richard. So we're living together, and we went from kind of a secondary, kind of casual relationship

to now we're in a pretty serious primary relationship. And our question is about how to navigate telling people about our new relationship who didn't know we were dating beforehand, because obviously we had to be discreet about telling people that we were in an open relationship and you know if people see that jayden was married but we've been dating for you know there's an overlap between the end between when she was married when our relationship started how's that going to go so is this more of a like a more of a problem of like what do we tell people how we met kind of thing? Well, we were friends before. So that part's at least pretty simple.

But I haven't even announced on social media that I'm getting divorced. Okay. So if I announce that I'm getting divorced and then I announce that I'm in a new relationship, it's going to be pretty quick turnaround for someone who doesn't know the background. Well,

yeah, but yes, this is a very unique situation. Right. And if you guys are like us and this is the life we've led and we just want to be honest and own who we are, then that's one option. You know,

you could just tell people and, or, or you can lie a little bit or admit some truths which you know i don't i'm not condoning lying but like everything the world isn't privy to our entire lives like you don't owe an explanation to everyone about your private life and so right yeah uh you you there no matter, there might be rumors being like, well, how did you guys meet or when did you meet? And who knows? But does that mean you have to tell them that you guys were in an open relationship? A poly relationship.

I don't think that you're required to share that information, right? They might think there was some overlap. There's a lot of divorces where, divorce is not like breaking up with your boyfriend or girlfriend or even front fiance like you can be like hey i don't think we should date anymore and you're like all right you have a couple like weird conversations and someone like you know you come get your shit and like that's a couple week process where a divorce can take months years right there's a separation sometimes and then you know and then two people who are technically still

married are separated and they're dating other people. That happens a lot. That's not that uncommon. And so I don't think you guys have to worry too much about that. Are you trying to avoid anyone knowing that you guys were in this type of relationship in the past or are you open to it and is it something you guys expect to explore and invite someone else into this relationship at all going forward or do are do are you guys do you want to keep it monogamous both of us are kind of in professions where we can't be super open about it um so we have you know our circle of friends that know and some of our family members, but the vast majority of people don't know that we're in an open relationship

that we were. And going forward, we're going to try to figure all that stuff out, which is one of the things that we're kind of taking it slow on because everything did change and happen really fast. So I don't know what things look like six months from now or a year from now, whatever, between us. Just out of curiosity, when you guys did start dating, when you were married with your ex-husband, was this about you and your ex-husband weren't getting along? And you're like...

No. It was an active decision to say, let's spice it up and bring another guy well we had actually been in an open relationship the whole time we were together the whole 16 years the whole marriage before we were married um you know we certainly had periods of time that there was just the two of us but uh it wasn't a new thing at all how many something we've been doing for a long time different partners did the relationship have in the 16 years you guys were together?

Five to 10, maybe. Okay. And who was bringing, is it a mix of who was bringing these people into the relationship? It's mostly me because I'm the extrovert. So I would go and meet people online or dating sites and whatever, and then we would meet them in person together.

Sometimes he'd meet someone and we would date them, but most of the time it was me. Was it always together or was it sometimes you would go on a date with a guy and he would go on a date with a woman and then maybe there should be some physical activity or was this all going on as a group thing it was all a group thing which was kind of an issue for me because i felt like i couldn't connect with somebody in the same way when it was three people versus if it were just one-on-one so that was definitely something that we conflicted about toward the end.

Gotcha. He wanted to keep it a group thing and you didn't. Yes. And I didn't. What about you, Richard? Is this something you want to keep? I'm curious. We don't experience these stories too often. Is this something you were looking for? Or when when she reached out and said hey this is the situation where was it like were you like just curious like what where was your head at when you were getting into this situation so i had been in um a non-monogamous relationship before um some monogamous some non-monogamous. I'd say overall, my better relationships were usually

the non-monogamous ones. When we met, we talked for a while and she mentioned that she and her husband were non-monogamous. And I said, that's great. I've, you know, I've been in a couple that brought in another person before, and I've never been the person coming into a couple. So that would be something I'd like to experience. Give it a try. Obviously, this time it didn't work out great, but maybe someday another time. We are interested in, like she said, some kind of non-monogamy moving forward. We're still figuring out exactly what that looks like for us. Well, as far as your immediate problem, I don't think you guys, you know, really have, uh, that much of a problem, like different than anyone else who's going through divorce. Right. And I think a lot of divorces, there's a lot of kind of timing seems off or, or whatnot. And depending

how nosy your friends are, you know, be like yeah we were friends and you know we were friends and he was a support system and we you know we went to a movie and turns out there was a physical connection there and like that's all they really need to know and if they want to believe that or not believe that like you you can't control that right but my guess is unless you've given them reason to think so i don't think they're going to immediately jump to me like they you know what i bet they were in a throuple you know like i don't know if that's usually the go-to like explanation people have so that's good news for you that i don't think unless you've been kind of floating these things out and been like maybe you're sitting down with your friends it's like

is it nuts that i've ever like you admit to having these fantasies or like, you know, so unless you've planted the seed with your friends that that might be going on, I would imagine they wouldn't guess that. So I think you're good. How long would you say, like if I announce in the next couple of days that I'm getting divorced in like social media world, how long do you think I should wait to then start posting about my new partner any advice uh why is that it's up to you right how much do you want people talking about you right how much how much do you want to have rumors out there uh my girlfriend and I were dating for months before we ever acknowledged it on social media we told our friends or whatever but like you know we were protective of our relationship and the more thoughts and opinions you have about your relationship,

it just brings in more noise and more noise can be a distraction. So like, do you guys have to like be Facebook official like anytime soon? And will that like, will that do anything for the relationship? No, I don't think so. I mean, I, Richard's not really a big social media person. I like to post when we go places or we do things. I do tend to post, you know, not every day, but fairly often. And, you know, we went away for a weekend and I had a tendency to be like, oh, we went to this cool store and I was going to post about it. And then I decided not to. So, you know, little stuff like that, that it may not even be relationship things,

but just that we're together. I think it's just, this is, you know, you just have to make choices on your priorities. Your priority for, you know, letting the world know where you're shopping or the priority of having a little bit of privacy while, you know, to avoid people talking about you. And you just have to make a choice.

So, you know, might as well just let people know you're getting divorced as soon as possible, knowing that you are in a relationship and you're proud of this relationship and you want to share this relationship to your friends and family. So the sooner you let people know you're divorced, the sooner you can do that. And if you want to wait a week or two, I don't know, that's fine. You know, people are nosy in these communities. We like to judge our friends. We like to gossip on Facebook and, you know, I don't wait a month, you know, it's not that, yeah, I met some guy in a month. Yeah. It turns out. And the fact that you guys were friends and people know you're friends, it would make sense

that you guys met sooner than later but you know the the shorter you wait the the questions people are going to be like were they fucking you know like that's yeah you're gonna get that but also that's a bit more question how much do you care about what people think and you know it's more of a debate about that and that's really just a personal choice that makes sense and i know you, I've been listening to your podcast for a while and I like that opinion of like, it doesn't matter what other people think, you know, and that we should focus on us and not worry about all that extra noise. And that makes a lot of sense.

That's ideal. But we are human and we do. So you just have to be honest with yourself about how much you can handle. Right. Right. And because, yeah, we shouldn't, but we do. So you just have to be honest with yourself about how much you can handle. Right. Right. And, and, uh,

because yeah, we shouldn't, but we do. So it's just managing the expectation versus reality versus that. And, but yeah, see, see where this relationship goes and then who knows bringing someone up.

Do you guys, I'm just, I am just curious cause I don't really have a lot of friends or I know a lot of people in these types of relationships. Is it gender specific? Like if you guys were to bring someone else in, would it be another guy since it was two guys before? Or does that vary?

It varies. For us, you know, we're both bisexual, so it really doesn't matter. The gender isn't important. And that was the way it was with my ex as well. Interesting. Well, it sounds exciting. I mean, you know, certainly mix it up.

And when you guys were dating, I'm curious, back with your ex-husband, it wasn't just all about sex, right? This was more like a relationship. Interesting. Yeah. I actually went on more dates with her ex-husband than I did with her while we were all dating. Interesting. That's true.

So did you feel like Richard or did you guys both, I guess it would be more a question for your ex, did he feel like he had to break up with two people? And like how did you guys make a decision that you two would stay together and and he would leave because that's that's fascinating i knew that they were going to divorce before he knew or at least before she told him so i just kind of tried to stay out of the way for the last month ish um to let her take care of what she needed to take care of. I haven't really talked to her ex-husband too much since then. We've checked in maybe once or twice over text.

But even though I spent more time with him, I always had a stronger connection with Jaden. So that affected it too. I spent a lot of time processing with my therapist what I was going to do. And then my ex and I did couples therapy. And the couples therapist recognized that I was done with the relationship at that point. You kind of checked out. Yeah, I had really checked out and, and it, we're actually still friends. We talk every day. Yeah, I had really checked out and we're actually still friends.

We talk every day. We have a child together. And my ex is very committed to becoming comfortable with the situation so that he and Richard can get along and interact and be friendly again. I don't think there's any desire, certainly on Richard's part, and I don't think on my ex's for the two of them to get back together, but being friendly would be helpful in our situation. Yeah. How does jealousy work in these types of relationships? It depends. I know I have a tendency to get jealous sometimes, but it's just a lot about communication, a monogamous relationship requires a lot of communication. And to be in a polyamorous relationship in these types of situations, it's just a little bit more being open and honest with yourself as much as with your partners. And processing what you feel jealous about.

you feel jealous about is there something specific that's triggering that feeling or you know just trusting that your partner's going to do what you guys have agreed to as a as a group and recognizing that you don't have to be everything for that person they don't have to be everything for you the example that I like to use is have you ever gone to see a movie or gone to a game or some kind of event with your partner and you were like, this is the dumbest movie I've ever seen. I never want to see one of these movies again. But then if they have a boyfriend or a girlfriend that loves those movies, you'd be like, great, you guys go to the movie. I'm going to order a pizza. Thank you for making me not have to go on this date, other partner. Yeah, no, I mean, that makes sense.

Well, that's all really interesting. I appreciate you guys sharing the story. But yeah, it sounds like you don't have any immediate problems when it comes just, you know, stay off social media for a while and let things breathe. That's what I would do. I would, the longer you can wait to post about it the less rumors you will hear and uh well it's good not to care what people think of you it's also good to not go out of your way to do things that you know will cause drama on your life right because even if you actively like like i don't care what people think like you still hear the noise

you have to actively, consciously decide not to worry about it. And if you do have professions that you think would complicate things, if people found out about your non-traditional relationships, and that's stress, and that's drama, and that's an emotional burden you're gonna have to deal with, so the safest play is to just focus

on each other and less on sharing it with the world for a few months and then after that let people know you're dating and i think you'll probably be fine yeah and that's definitely hard for me i'm a very open person so it's hard to keep things under wraps but um i've talked to my closest friends and family and they all understand so yeah and it sounds like it's not like you're keeping this a secret from everyone you're just keeping this a secret from like people you went to high school with that you don't talk to anymore right facebook friends with i think they can wait yeah yeah yeah so yeah and like you know my

daughter knows so that's really the only person that i really cared about in that there you go uh she knows that you guys are dating does she know she is she aware of the polyam is it polyamorous am i pronouncing it right polyamorous correct is she aware of the polyam is it polyamorous am i pronouncing it right polyamorous correct is she aware of that no she was not um i we actually were going to tell her shortly before my husband and i split up and then we never had an opportunity to talk to her about it how old is she that we didn't because she's uh nine yeah i mean i'm not an expert on that i would think that'd be a question for a child therapist and when the appropriate time to drop that bomb would be.

But, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Probably good that you haven't. Yeah. I feel like not a need-to-know basis at this point. Yes. It's mostly the social media that I guess is my biggest concern. All right.

Well, I think we got a handle on this best of luck to you guys thank you good luck with everything and hope it all works out thanks Nick alright take care guys thanks for calling in you too thank you

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Out-of-network cash withdrawal fees apply. Third-party and cash deposit fees may apply. Go to Chime.com slash V-I-A-L-L for more details. How's it going? Good. I am Taylor, and I'm 23 years old. How can I help Taylor? So I think it's important to give you a little context before I dive right into my question.

So my relationship history is I have been in three relationships since I was 16. And those lasted like in order one year, about two years and three and a half years. And I just got out of the three and a half year relationship in December. But I feel like totally over it. Like I feel like I knew he wasn't my guy at like year two. And I kind of stuck in it because I was going through like a vulnerable time. And and so so yeah I kind of grieved that throughout that relationship and now um totally over it I've moved in January to like a new town new people a new career like completely just new life and just doing my thing and I've been pretty content in that even though I've like been in relationships my whole life I've just been fine being single

and then um now I'm just like uh okay important to add that all my relationships were like long distance and like after those I told myself I was never gonna do like long distance again and so now I met someone at a bar and of course he's military so kind of goes and I didn't realize that until the end of the night. And what sucks is because like we really hit it off. And at the end of the night, realized that, and then I got his number on our separate ways, whatever. And then next weekend after that,

we hung out and also had a good time, went home with him, slept together. Next day we hung out. I like, he wanted to take me on it like out to dinner but I was like uh like come over I'll just make you dinner or something like that so also had like an amazing night and so I am now I've hung out with him one more time since then not very long just like quick hey whatever coffee and now I'm at a point to where like my question for you is I am like obsessing way too much over this like situation and it sucks because I just want to be casual and with a man and I don't know how to do that for some reason and I'm just obsessing over like when are we gonna hang out next or like whenever we're talking or whatever it is and I think I've had more time

on my hands this past week so maybe that's why but also in general i'm just like don't know how to be normal and i don't want to get back into a relationship but he's also awesome so that's just where i'm at like not knowing how to be casual and just like you know take it how it is how long were you seeing like how long the last boyfriend last boyfriend, when did you guys break up? In, like, December. But, like I said, like, that was over in my mind before it was, like, officially over. And I broke up with him, and I was, we're just going on different lives. Yeah, but I was just curious about time.

Like, for the past seven years, you've had a relationship for six of them at least right you know you're like you said you've yeah you've for your this pattern more than your adult life you know if you're 18 being adult but um you've been in a relationship so there's something in you that's telling you like i need to like just desire to be casual right just desire to be independent is you're you're hearing this voice inside and you're having a hard time executing because you don't know how to do that right it's not how you're wired and and a lot of people aren't like you know maybe you don't right you're like i i don't know i like a guy he's awesome like why do i you're like have

these conversations with yourself because like you've told yourself like i'm not doing this but then you're like well why why aren't we doing this taylor like he's great so like what the fuck you know let's date exactly and i don't want to like deprive myself of like having a good time so it's like because i want that attention and i you know i want to like sometimes i just want to get laid and And so it's like, and, but it sucks that I feel like I just catch feelings too quickly. So I'm like, how do I separate? What do you like about him? He is super hot, which is, you know, just total bonus. Um, but he's also a bit of a red flag in the sense that like, man, hotness, like hot, like I love hot people and they're like, you know, they make,

like hot like i love hot people and they're like you know they make they make everything else seem so great you know you've seen you've liked the the the like the have you heard of the the crazy hot scale for guys right like for girls like it's a pretty funny youtube video but like it's it's silly and in a way misogynistic but there's some truth of like depending how hot she is guys will put up with a certain level of crazy you know like the crazier she like it's just like we just have a way of being like it's fine she's not that crazy she's super smart you know and maybe she's solely crazy and not that smart but like what the guy is is very physically attracted to her but like women do the same thing right he's hot so like you're just laughing at all his jokes and everything's great and you know everything's adorable because he's so goddamn hot you know but no he's he's also ambitious and well that's the thing he's like

really involved in his job which i think that's also like a weird thing for me military but that's i wish i could get out of that thinking like i just want to get to know him why do i need to care so much about like his job right now but I do like that he's ambitious because I feel like in the past I've just been wasting my time on these men that just I'm like they're going nowhere and um I like that he's like really engaged in like my career and what I do and even if he doesn't know like much about it he's still asking me questions and stuff like that. We have the same values. And then I'm like, what do you mean by, what do you mean values?

Like with our family, like he is, he comes from, um, and this is like my number one. So like that family is my number one. And so is his. And,

we both come from like, we both have three siblings and just large families and that's just like our number one and so and I mean that I think yeah I mean that's the only one that comes to mind because that's just like huge that I didn't have in the past that I was like why am I not dating guys that don't

really care about their family when I do and I want that so that's just like really attractive to me and then yeah can I ask you a question want that. So that's just like really attractive to me. And then, yeah. Can I ask you a question? Do you think with other things in life, you have somewhat of an obsessive personality? Like when you get even goals or tasks, you like get really fixated and focused on those things? Probably. And I might not notice it. Now, I don't know. I i mean even when the way you're describing

like we have a lot in common and i'm not trying to you know tease but like to say like you both have like family is important to you like you're not the only ones you know like it's a it's a thing a lot of people like to say you know and that can vary to certain degrees and that might mean you're really close with family or maybe family is important because, you know, you meet someone who like parents got divorced. They don't have the best relationship. So they really desire that in their partner. You know, so they both really like family, you know. And so I think you just need to trust your inner gut, your inner instincts.

And that inner instinct is recognizing, hey, I've been in a relationship my whole life and I don't know what it's like to feel independent and to feel alone. That's okay that you're excited about this guy. But logically, you have to recognize that it doesn't matter if he both likes family, you have the same love language and all that but like you can actively slow things down you know you can it's you know you have to have some willpower if if you want to work out more or eat better like you have to make conscious decisions like that same logic that you're having now you could be like well i mean if i want to eat the the a greasy burger why should i not eat the greasy burger? Even though you're trying to like limit fat out of your diet. I don't, you know, I don't know. Or it's just like, well,

if I'm too tired to work out right now, why should I work out? Well, I don't know. Maybe you shouldn't, but you're the one who's saying I need to get in better shape and I need to exercise a little bit more for my, you know, that's a goal. I, I deep down, I just know I need to be more active and right. So there's, there's knowing what you're, you need, and's a goal. I, I deep down, I just know I need to be more active and right. So there's, there's knowing what you're, you need, and then there's executing on that need, despite your desires telling you differently. Right. Yeah. I stuck at that. Now that you're giving me these like examples, I'm like, yeah. So you just have to kind of self police. It's a challenge and it doesn't mean you can't hang out with this guy it just means that like does it matter if you play house or you fast pace relationships

time sometimes is the only way we really get to know people right like like playing house or going on the bachelor will certainly uh speed up feelings and emotions faster than they otherwise would. But getting to know someone who they really are, their real insecurities, how they handle stressful situations, how they handle things when things start getting comfortable and normal and the excitement's no longer there, that just takes time, right? This is why we call, it's why we call things like the honeymoon phase, because like there's so many variables that are bringing this

relationship along that don't include like a true sense of deep love and connection, right? That come with like just knowing who that person is at their core and when they're at their worst, not just when they're at their best, right? You are meeting this guy's, as Chris Rock would say, his representative. He's meeting yours. Like even if you try to be your most authentic self, it's hard to do, right?

You know, people don't go on The Bachelor and they'll tell their tragic stories and be like, you know, I had this thing with my family and and that endears them but how many guys show up on their first date and be like i got this really bad track record of ghosting women i don't know i'm really avoidant i i just i never call them back and i'm just i'm kind of a wuss like i hate confrontation do we ever have we ever seen that in the history of the show no no it's always like these profound tragic stories like my parent you know and you're just like oh really like oh poor you like way to be so honest with your vulnerabilities but when do we really hear like like i don't know i'm kind

of rude to people sometimes i show up late you know i we don't right because we have a hard time being honest about those things but we all do those things and we have to give each other time to get to know and you're just not you're not willing to do that right now and i know i hate hearing this like i hate hearing the truth but it is true and i just need to like but i feel like how i'm gonna go about this is just like not talk to him for a while and then i don't know if that's a healthy approach i don't know see this is because with me it's kind of like i need to go one way or the other maybe like i either need to in the short term that might be the best of the two worst options right it's just like i know deep down the best thing for me is time alone right it's it's

and so maybe you maybe you push back a little bit and say, I'm just not, I like you, you're great, but I know something deep down tells me I'm not in the right place to really give this relationship a shot. And by a relationship a shot, I mean like, if you are so great that maybe you're my person, I don't know if I am in the right space. Because what you do know is he's a cool hang, he's a great lay, he's fun, and you enjoy his time together, right? We know that. And that's exciting. But what you don't know is, is this someone you're going to want to be investing in five years from now? Maybe, maybe not, right? The huge unknowns, we really don't know. But

there's something about yourself is telling you i don't know if i could be the best version of myself and and really get to know you because i'm i'm questioning my ability to be alone and self-police my desire so like i guess in the short term i get wipe but i think you need to get better at just slowing things down you know i need to yeah i just need to that's the thing like i just can't sleep with someone or like go home with someone or whatever and then uh the next day feel like fine about it like and and so I met him twice I didn't go home with him the first night the second night I did which is because I got to know him a little bit better it doesn't really make sense sometimes my mind is

like you're an adult just do what you want but then i like the next day these things happen like i get to in my head and get to ahead of myself before that so i think yeah unfortunately i kind of need to just separate like my head and my heart like you're saying i just can't i just need to hold off on men and just figure out my thing you can you can be sex positive and still refrain from sex if you know that deep down you will feel an emotional connection to whoever you sleep with, right? And then once in a while where you want to like, you know, again, using the diet analogy, it's like you can give up sweets and try to eat healthy. But once in a while, you're like, I deserve cake tonight, you know, and you go out and you have some fun at the risk of like being a little bit more emotionally connected but what you don't want to do is sleep around so much despite feeling emotional connections connections that for self preservation you learn how to detach yourself emotionally from sex because you don't want to do that because when you meet a guy then you will feel like disconnected from from that does that

make sense right yeah and that's like also not me and so that's why I think that's that's why I actually do catch feelings or whatever quicker because I'm like okay I'll just sleep with him every now and then like it's like so I don't have to sleep around or whatever it is because like you said sometimes I want cake so it's like I don't want uh chocolate vanilla strawberry i want chocolate like i want want that same person so it's like so yeah i think you just need to this is your young take some time alone even if it's for like you've never been single you know i'm sure you're used to going out you get hit on like you really haven't been alone i think you need to like take these kind of active choices for you to decide and you're gonna keep meeting guys right so uh you you really it's it's this is self-policing this is kind of your first you know being mature for

yourself like this is and it's gonna take you you know i i can tell you all this stuff eventually when you're in the moment you're going to have to decide don't do this taylor you know and i know i'm happy this is your voice is going to be stuck in my head telling me that and so i'm pretty sure hopefully i'll be self-willed enough not to but but. But yeah, try not to completely cut yourself off from society just to, you know, you can manage these moments. I feel like you have the willpower. You just have to practice.

Like anything else, it just takes practice and this is not something you're good at. Yeah, that's good advice. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. All right, well, I really appreciate you calling. Good luck. And it's good advice well thank you so much for having me I really appreciate it alright well I really appreciate you calling good luck and it's good that you are

learning how to listen to your gut and trust your gut and now you just have to follow through alright alright alright take care

thanks alright bye bye how's it going I'm good how are you good what's your name good I'm Kim I'm good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Good. I'm Kim. I'm 39.

Hi, Kim. How can I help? All right. So I'm calling in with a co-parenting question today for you. All right. So I have a very toxic ex. We were together for eight and a half years. We have a seven- old son together. And of those eight and a half years, it was like it was toxic and abusive. Never towards my son. It was all just at me. But that's ultimately what ended our relationship. When our relationship ended three years ago, I took out a protection order for my son and myself against my ex, his dad. So he did not see or speak to his dad for like nine or 10 months. It was almost a year. His dad was not in his life for obvious reasons.

But since then, for a while, his dad had like only two days a week of supervised visits. And then we went to a 60-40 situation where I had him 60% of the time, dad had 40% of the time. And then now we're at a 50-50, which is where we've been for about a year. So the tough thing is that although since going to 5050, we've gotten a lot better at communicating. Um, he has will very often try to take advantage of my parenting time, which is really frustrating to me. Yeah, so for example, he very recently, I picked our son up at school, and it was the beginning of one of

my weekends, which is like a five day stretch. And he told me his dad had given him a card with a note in it that just kind of said, Hey, if you ever want to come have a sleepover while you're at your mom's, just give me a call and I'll come pick you up. And he tells me this and I'll come pick you up. And he tells me this. And our son is just the sweetest kid. And he's very like open.

So he'll communicate these things to you, which I really appreciate. But hearing that's just very frustrating to me because to me, it's a clear like disrespect of my parenting time with my child. And I have never and would I ever disrespect his parenting time with my child. And I have never, nor would I ever disrespect his parenting time with our son. I respect the time that he has with our son, regardless of what happened between him and I.

I still think that that relationship's important. I'm just not getting the same respect from his dad, which is really tough for me. And there's been other times too where our son's told me like oh dad said if um you know if i want to go do fun things this weekend with him i should just call him and he'll come pick me up and take me to do whatever that is and i'm like well but you know it's my weekend with you and so that's a tough thing have you talked to your ex about this i have but i told him a while

ago and he basically told me well if you know if he wants to if he expresses that he wants to spend time with me i'm not going to deny him of that regardless of whose parenting time it is so basically didn't go anywhere and i and help me understand because i'm i'm i don't know too much about co-parenting type of rules in terms of like um like what the law is but like you guys is this a court order that you guys 50 50 or is this you guys are like how does this enforced you know yeah no we yes we went through we had we each had a lawyer we went we did it through mediation it's a signed document through the court so like this is a 50 50 we both agreed to this um it was a mutual thing but it still seems like his dad's not the one who's okay

like necessarily following these rules and i've expressed to him that we both agreed to this, like, let's be fair. Let's agree to stick to our time with our son and not try to overstep on the other parent's time. Yeah. Well, I mean, I can get your frustration. I mean, you know, he's not respecting that. It's a bit manipulative, right? He's, uh, I, I, I'm not a parent and I'm not a therapist, but my, my humble opinion would be you, you both, including you. Cause like, even when you're like,

when you say to your son, like, this is my time. Like how is a nine, 10 year old supposed to be able to process this? Right. He's like kind of the innocent person. So like it,

it, it doesn't do much good trying to explain to your son, your frustrations with your ex-husband and his father. Right. Because I tried to leave that out of it. Yeah. I try to just basically tell him, well, you know what, I understand that you want to, but we have to be fair. And this weekend is my weekend and you're going to get to see your dad again, you know, whenever. So like, I try to, and i kind of leave it at that like i try to leave him out of the adult drama because i understand a he's not going to understand it and b i want to be that parent who's involving him in our drama yeah uh i'm trying you know it's tough because you know like you said it sounds like your ex is is not the the best guy you know and so this is it's a manipulation tactic, right? Because he's, he's trying to,

to be clever and go and, and, and say this to your son. And so when your son's like, Oh, I want to go hang out with dad. Cause you're, you're my,

my guess is the nine, 10 year old is not fully processing what it means to be divorced or what it means to share. You're like, I would think that a 19 year old, I don't know. These are my parents. Like today I want to hang out with dad. Today I want to hang out with dad,

tomorrow I want to hang out with mom. What do you mean by your time versus my time? And your ex-husband is clever enough to realize that. So he's like, hey, whenever you want to, I'll come pick you up. Oh, absolutely, yeah. So I think you just need to, as hard as it is, keep having these arguments with your ex-husband.

Do you have any recourse if he continues not to respect the mutually agreed upon arrangement is there a recourse to say even to your husband's like if you listen i don't want to argue with you like you're arguing semantics with me like we're not married anymore we're co-parenting and by that definition there's not like we're not like we're not leaving it up to our nine-year-old right now right like when they want to hang out with whatever parents in a moment's notice that like you know it sucks that we didn't work out but like this is a situation we're in if you can't respect that then like we're gonna have to reevaluate our arrangement yeah absolutely you know i hate that it's gonna get to that point but Yeah, absolutely. he's making me the bad guy which i don't want to be so it's tough and i understand that yeah i mean

i think it is just kind of one of those things i need to let it play out and to me it's like i'm just not responding to that as much as i can like i'm not going to feed into it um and just kind of let it kind of like blow over hopefully have you asked him without like, you know, and I know it's tough, but like to your ex-husband, she's like, why do you do this? I did initially like a year ago when I first brought this up to him. And again, his reasoning was just, well, if he expresses interest in wanting to see me, I'm going to try to fulfill that for him and make that happen. And I'm like, well well so i'm like yeah but you need to be the adult and kind of set the boundaries not let the kid make the decision no no yeah so that's the tough that's the tough thing is you it's like just out of curiosity why

why did we get to a 50 50 split in this Like, how did that happen? He was fighting for that from the get-go, but I held off for as long as I could. Why? Because of the abuse that happened while we were together. And so I didn't feel like he was a very fit parent. Why do you feel like he's fit now? Like, I'm actually curious.

If you wanted to fight for full custody, do you think you could get it? No, not full custody, do you think you could get it? No, not full custody. But the tough stuff is that the abusive stuff happened to me and never to our son. In the court's eyes, it doesn't look that bad. Dad's manipulative, obviously, and has done a lot of work and can make it look like he's perfect and healed. If you wanted to, could you go back to court

and make it challenging for him? I mean, I don't know how this... I think if I wanted to try to do that, yeah. But at the same time, like, our son did a lot... Money is a huge issue, too. You know what I mean? That's right. Lawyers are cheap.

But, I mean, our son didn't do very well going between both houses when he didn't see his dad as much. And since we've gone to 50-50, he's so much more relaxed and chill about it, which is easier for everybody. I think it's just, and it's not all the time that this happens,

but there are situations here and there where they'll pop up, but it's just, it's annoying. I'm sorry. It sucks. I think it's okay. Yeah. As much as you can,

I would try to kill your ex-husband with kindness because he sounds like the type of guy who responds to and gets off almost... He gets off on upsetting you and knowing that this is manipulating tactics and if he gets the desired reaction, like, you know um so almost i think like ignoring them and it puts you in a tough position with your kid but if we're just

trying to get to a a resolution that's the best possible given a toxic situation like yeah i think try to not let it bother you as much as you can i know it's probably much easier said than done to not worry about feeling like the bad guy with your son because i think that's what your husband wants to make you feel and that's what he's accomplishing and if he knows he's making you feel that way he's just he's not going to stop he's going to keep going he's going to get off on it um so as much as you can, just try to ignore him. And yeah, he's going to send these notes.

You can ask him to ask him nicely to stop, explain your case, but don't let him see you get angry. That's the biggest thing. It's very difficult. But again, I'm trying to either just ignore it or just be as polite as I can. Yeah.

Cause I, yeah, the best thing you can do. I mean, if you get to a point where you feel like you're at the end of your rope and you're financially able to do it, but like you said, it sounds like,

at least with your son, it seems having his father, it seems to be positive in his life. Yeah. So I think, yeah, you could try as much as you can to just not let him see him get to you because it sounds like the type of person who gets off on that. Absolutely.

No, he is. And you know, like if he reaches out to dad when it's your time, you know, sorry, you know? Oh yeah.

I'll, yeah. I'll let him ignore it. Cause I'm like, no, it's my time. You need to respect that. So I feel as long as you just keep loving your son and, you know,

even if you feel like the bad guy now, and again, I could be wrong. I'm not a child psychologist. I feel like one day your son, as he gets older, will realize and recognize and see it for what it was. I mean, a lot of people have told me that. So I got my fingers crossed on that one. That's my hope and if he's a little bit mad at you

I don't remember the temper tantrums I threw as a kid when I got mad at my parents but I do know I look back and you know as kids as adults we learn to appreciate some of the tough love our parents gave us and realize that they were protecting

us and so try to focus on that as much as you can i am that is my hope so yeah um and just ignore the nothing will bother your ex-husband more than i know him thinking you have no effect over uh he has no effect over your um your your mindset your emotional your emotions that will drive him fucking nuts so i know thank you so much all right all right well best of luck all right thanks for calling yes thank you guys all right all right take care how's it going i'm fine thanks how are you doing i'm wonderful what's your name Thanks for calling. Yes. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. All right. Take care. How's it going? I'm fine.

Thanks. How are you doing? I'm wonderful. What's your name? I'm Sarah and I'm 26. Hi, Sarah. 26. How can I help?

Okay. So my boyfriend and I have been together for almost three years. And for the last two years, he has been traveling for his job a lot. So essentially, it's long distance. I see him every other weekend, basically. And there's a lot of things that I need in order to make that work. And so far, we've done a good job at doing that. But recently, like in the past couple of months, I've noticed a huge shift and huge difference in him.

Like he isn't excited when he comes home to see me. Like he just never seems happy or excited about anything. And I talked to him about it because it was really starting to affect me and my happiness in the relationship. And he basically told me that he has this family trauma that happened a while ago when he was a kid and he never dealt with it. He's talked to me about it a little bit before, but I guess it kind of resurfaced. And when it all went down, he didn't have anybody he felt like he could talk to, never did therapy, and he was really depressed and suicidal.

And his, I guess, defense mechanism was to basically shut down all of his emotions so that he could feel numb is what he says and it worked for him for like a decade and i guess he was just living with it and when it resurfaced recently he's sort of gone back into that numb state. And so in order to not feel super sad and think about it all the time, he just shuts down all his emotions. So he's not sad, but he's also not happy. And he doesn't feel joy. He's like pretty depressed. And I just don't know, like, if I can continue to support him through that. I told him I thought he would really benefit from therapy, but I can't obviously force him to do anything he doesn't want to do.

He doesn't like talking. He is resistant to therapy at this point? Yes. Does he say why? He says that he doesn't like talking about it and he doesn't want to talk about it too much because he thinks if he reopens that wound, it'll just hurt so much more

and he thinks he'll become suicidal again. And he doesn't, I don't know, he kind of said that he doesn't have interest in changing and feeling emotions anymore because he's just lived with it for so long and his family kind of just swept it under the rug like to this day do you know what it is specific yes okay um but they yeah they like to pretend it never happened so he feels like he doesn't have their support and he's just kind of stubborn and i just don't know if i can like continue in this

relationship because i'm really not happy with it right now yeah but i also feel like i don't know if this is just a low point and i want to support him and like be by his side when he needs me but i don't know or like if i should keep encouraging him to you know without sharing because we don't need you to share if you don't feel comfortable but like and i know you're not a therapist but does it seem like something you um like you hear the story of what happened you're just like oh shit like it seems like a really big deal like you you understand why that might be something he's really struggling with yes okay um yeah i mean he clearly needs to deal with it right like does have you asked him the question

if you do nothing how do you think you can operate as a person, whether you're in or out of a relationship going forward? Like, you know, he says he doesn't want to do anything about it and he doesn't want to make it worse. And I appreciate that. I mean, if he was suicidal and he's afraid of suicide, I can imagine why that'd be a monstrous fear. I can imagine why that be a monstrous fear. But if doing, you know, if the alternative is doing nothing, is this, this, is this sustainable for him? You know, how does he know he's not going to become suicidal by, by holding onto this? And, and you can't force yourself to feel nothing forever.

I mean, you can try. I mean, and again, it sounds like he has been somewhat successful, but as he has even stated about his own admission, these have a way of revealing themselves, a triggering event that he might not see coming, a person he interacts with or who knows. And again, as someone who's not a therapist, I would think that that could trigger him. And for someone who has spent so much time

pushing these emotions and feelings down, what he hasn't done is, you know, trained himself to deal with this stuff and process his emotions. And so what happens when he gets triggered unexpectedly doesn't know how to process these feelings and is forced to deal with something that he can't handle that that would be my fear for him yeah um so listen the short answer is uh he is not your responsibility in life.

You have a right to, again, we've talked about this before, you have a right to be in a happy, healthy relationship. You can't help people who are uninterested in helping himself. You can support him. You can try to guide him. You can try to give him different options and be patient. But at some point, he needs to want to work on this and face his fears as hard as it may be. And if he doesn't want to, then you reach a point where you do have to protect yourself, right?

Because if he is this damaged and he's unwilling to do anything about it, it could become a dangerous and toxic situation for yourself. Yeah. You know, and that's really unfortunate. Um, how close are you with his family? Pretty close actually. Like, um, before he has this come up at all with them? I mean, no, um, he has never even talked to them about it at all like they pretend it doesn't happen and meeting them before I knew any of this I never would have known anything sure they just seem like a really great happy family but clearly he still has issues with it and yeah I guess I just don't know when he told you like what was your reaction to the story in terms of like re-inf like how do you make him feel you know like what do you what are the things you've

tried to say to him uh um when he told me i was like kind of shocked because i personally never dealt with anything super traumatic like that in my family so I was kind of just like are you okay um like do you want to talk about it more and pretty much immediately he's like no I don't want to talk about it anymore like I'm fine it's fine and yeah that was it and I don't try to push him to talk more than he doesn't want to um but it is yeah really starting to affect our relationship more and i'm just not sure if it's going to continue or well i mean again without being a therapist if you were willing and wanted to and you weren't ready to break up i would at least try to push a little bit. I would try to, as his girlfriend, as someone who he trusts and has a sense of security,

try to make him feel like therapy, while risky and you empathize with how he's scared, can be a really great thing. And you're there to support him through it. And, and he's not alone because he has you, but he also has to recognize that, you know, how he is choosing to handle this while you empathize with them is affecting the relationship. And if he's not willing to like doing nothing about it, isn't an option because it's clearly affecting him like yeah he's even acknowledged that it's affecting his behavior and therefore affecting

your relationship and how could you like hey sorry babe like this happened to me i'm gonna just muscle through life and it will affect how i act towards you and it will affect how i treat you it will affect my happiness and therefore affect your happiness. But I need you to deal with that forever. Like that's not practical. Right. And I think despite what he's gone through, he, you know, you have a right to express that, you know, but if you are willing first, you know, since you haven't pushed at all and you just kind of let him say, well, I don't want to talk about it. And you're like, okay, I don't know what to say.

So I guess I'm going to drop it. And I've been there, right? I've dated people. And again, it's sad how many victims there are out there of family traumatic events and abuse. It's shocking you know as i've gotten older interacted with friends and and people i've dated and you're just like it the first reaction is like i mean do you yeah like you said you want to talk about it and you know like you don't want to push it's very delicate i get that but yeah um you you're at a breaking point.

So you have to, if it wasn't affecting the relationship, then you could probably be easier to ignore, but it is. Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, I don't know how to bring it up to him without it sounding like an ultimatum. Well, at first, don't make it sound like an ultimatum, you know, because you haven't pushed yet, right? So first push a little bit without, take the relationship out of it for the short term, right?

Try to push a little bit. Be like, hey, I want to talk about this. I know you said this, but let's, if you're willing to revisit this with me, I'd like to talk about you. And it's affecting how you are feeling and i know it's scary and i want to be there i want to be there for you don't say like i'm going to be there for you no matter what but like i want to be there for you um but this is not sustainable for you and for us and so is there a world where you would consider therapy? I think you just have to push therapy a little bit harder and not be so quick to let him say,

I don't want to talk about this. If it gets to a point where he just refuses and you get nowhere and he shuts you down and he gets mad or angry at you and reacts to you, then I think you're kind of forced to say, okay, well, what do you want me to, how can we be in a relationship? You know, kind of make it a,

like get him to answer the obvious questions. Like how, so you want me to, like this is us for the rest of our lives? You know? Yeah. Like I'm worried about you. Like do you really think you can just muscle your feelings and hide them forever?

You know? Yeah. I mean, see what he says to some of these like obvious questions. She's got to get him to think about it. He's just scared. And I, I get that.

So you got to try to, if you can get through that fear and, um, you know, um, it's a tough situation, but. Yeah. And then it is hard, especially too, because most of our communication is done through text because our, you know, and I did tell him like a couple of weeks ago, I was having a really tough time with it. And I told him, you know, I think he would benefit from therapy because I've done therapy and it's helped me a lot. And I think he thinks that his situation is so unique and special

and he was like they're not going to understand and I told him I think you'd be surprised how many other people I've gone through the same thing and feel the same way as you yeah maybe there's maybe he should look into I don't know what happened to him but i do know while i'm sure it is unique it's not necessarily unique in the and that's what's sad the sad reality is there's a lot of fucked up shit that goes on in this world and with families and there's a lot of secrets out there and it's it's scary but there are support groups and i think more than anything it sounds like your boyfriend feels like he truly is alone in this and he feels the shame and guilt and he feels like no one can relate and he's scared and it's a heavy you know and so he needs to realize there are

other victims out there and while it might not be the exact same story, there are people who probably can very much relate to what he's feeling. Right. And trying to connect him with that. So do your best, but he needs to give you something to work with because otherwise you could be putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. It's tough. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. It's tough. Yeah. We try to help the ones we love, but they do have to want to help themselves.

Yeah. No, I'm just trying to figure out at what point. I wouldn't text this stuff. I would FaceTime and get on the phone. These are not conversations to be having over text yeah that absolutely especially you know we we read text how we are feeling right so

um however he's feeling no matter what you text no matter what emoji you throw in there he's going to interpret it how he's feeling and it's you know let him and that's why i think facetime let him see your face let him see your facial expressions let him get all all the forms of communication available to you guys that don't include being in the same room to have these very tough conversations yeah um that is it's also really hard, like just a whole nother factor is he overworks himself, I think, as a way to distract himself, you know, but he'll put in like a 19 hour day and then go to sleep. And so we don't really have time.

He's trying to avoid dealing with this however he can. And he's grasping at straws. He's going to run out of options. Yeah. however he can. And he's grasping at straws. He's going to run out of options. Yeah.

And then, and so, yeah, I think if you can, if you're willing some tough love for the next, however long you think you can endure pushing him. And, but at some point there's a breaking point.

Yeah. All right. All right. All right. Well, good luck. Thank you very much. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. Well, good luck. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you for calling and sharing your story.

Yeah. All right. Thanks. I appreciate it. All right. Have a good day. Wow. Killed it. Nailed it.

What a great job. Pat myself from the back. Can't thank you guys enough for listening to this episode. Hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed giving it to you. If you have some time, why don't you just go into iTunes, give us some five stars. Really appreciate it. Also, merch is available at vilefiles.com. We've got breakup books.

Give it to all your friends that are whining about their exes they can't get over and tell them to just write a bunch of shit down that pissed them off. Also, some catchy, wonderful sweatshirts, t-shirts, mugs mugs hats we have it all tote bags support your favorite podcast buy some merch uh other than that have a great day bye