The Viall Files - E272 Ask Nick - Handling Rejection

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

On today's episode of Ask Nick we start with a guy who wants to know how much effort is too much effort to put into a girl that he likes (hoping that Bachelor Nation’s Ashley and Jared’s story is more the rule than the exception.) Next, we speak with a woman who’s swinging lifestyle with her husband has led her to a couple that is polyamorous and she finds herself with emotions attached where she did not expect them to be. Our third caller met someone randomly, started dating him, came to find out he is the step brother of a guy she used to date, and now doesn’t know how to share this info with her new guy. Last, we speak to someone who is having problems with her girlfriends, and is fighting some jealously issues she has, wondering why her friends are leaving her out.  “Jealousy does not equal love and you have confused that…” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Usual Wines: http://www.usualwines.com use our discount code VIALLbfor $8 off your first order and try your first glass on us! Vizzy: http://vizzyhardseltzer.com To find out where you can purchase Vizzy and upgrade your hard seltzer today.  Rothy’s: http://rothys.com/VIALL to find your new favorites today UNTUCKit: http://www.UNTOUCKit.com use promo code VIALL For 20% off your first purchase. Remember, if you need the perfect gift for Father’s Day, get him a shirt from UNTUCKit—Shirts Designed to be Worn Untucked.  Echelon: http://www.echelonfit.com/FILES to get a special podcast offer from Echelon. For a limited time only, start your 30-Day Risk Free Trial offer with Echelon’s E-X-3 bike for just one dollar. . Episode Socials:  Viall Files @viallfiles Nick Viall @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

No more wasting wine and pouring it down the sink because you didn't want to have four glasses when you just wanted to have maybe, let's say, 6.3 ounces or a glass and a half. That's the amount of wine that's in usual wines, a heavy pour, about a glass and a half of wine. All you single serving people out there that just want to have a nice little relaxing drink to wind down or at dinner, usual wines is the wine for you. It's low carbon ass, no sugar, which is like the most and craziest part about it. So go check out their website at www.usualwines.com and use my discount code V-I-A-L-L for $8 off your first order and try your first glass on us. What's going on everybody happy monday to you hope wherever you are uh your monday is off to a solid start and if it's not monday thanks for finally making time for us. Have the ladies with me, Amanda, Allie, Chrissy. How is everyone doing? We're always scared to see who's going to talk first.

I also just hit Amanda, so we're off to a great start. Sorry. Amanda experienced sex swings this weekend. That does not accurately. How did she experience it? She viewed it. I got roped into attending somebody else's date and the house we went to had sex swings there.

Yeah. I've never really heard of one, but. Nick just wants like the click bait. He's like here for a zinger. So people keep listening. That's how it works. And your sister got engaged, I like it. That she did.

Congrats to the happy couple. Yeah. It's going to be, it's going to be a fun time. I'm already making spreadsheets. They were only, only dating for eight years, 12 years,

12 years, 12 years. I mean, they started dating at 16. So like my sister's only 28. Okay. It's not like she's like 42. Okay.

Was she getting impatient? Um, I don't think she was getting impatient. I think she was getting frustrated because people were just like obnoxious about it. Interesting. Like family members or like family friends would just be like, what's the holdup? Like blah, blah, blah. When's it happening?

And she's like, I'm just sick of, I'm also just shocked that people would make her that uncomfortable and fully ask her those questions like all the time uh we have a great episode for you jam-packed with uh questions about uh open relationships friends how to get a girl to like you and uh stepbrothers and sex. So get ready for that. We got a great episode for you Wednesday. Brian Baumgartner is with us. You might know Brian as Kevin from The Office. What a great, fascinating guy. Obviously, we get into talking about The Office

and his experience on that and just his life in general. And if you don't know a lot about brian uh be sure to tune in because uh you won't want to miss uh that episode very charming guy great guy i'm more of a fan of him now than i was uh before i had a chance to talk with him and that's saying a lot uh so be sure to check that out uh the next week after that we have the wonderful nikki glazer back in studio with us. And we always have a fun time talking with Nikki. Be sure to subscribe.

Give us five stars. There's merch out there, vilefiles.com. Be sure to check that out. And I'll stop rambling and get to the good stuff here. What's your time with me? Let's ask Nikki your sexy questions. How's it going? It's going pretty good.

How are you? Good. What's your name? Zach. How old are you, Zach? I'm 21. How can I help? Something I've kind of been struggling with is if you're into somebody, if you kind of

have a crush on somebody and you're putting in the effort and like trying to um build a relationship maybe you've been friends with them for a while maybe you kind of just met them um how much effort is like too much effort to put into that you know I see I you know I don't know if you read the question but I've seen um situations like Hannah and Dylan when I watch like the bachelor in the past um and i just see how much like how he like really fought for that but i i know there was other like circumstances where he kind of had um signs so i don't know how much effort is too effort how much is too much or how how should you know when to stop you know sure unless they obviously tell you is there a specific uh lady that you're interested in?

Yeah, there is. There's been a girl I've been friends with for quite some time now. But I wasn't really like actually like into her, like crushing on her until more recently. How'd you meet her? Through school. Okay. Would you consider her a friend, like a close friend? Like you guys talk on a regular basis, like you hang out? Like you're comfortable seeing her?

I'm comfortable seeing her. Yeah, for sure. But we are more just like know each other kind of friends. We're not like best buds or anything. Do you think she has any idea that you have a crush on her? Yeah, she probably has some idea, but I don't know if I've made it like completely obvious. What makes you think she has an idea?

So we work together now, and I just like spend more time with her and talk to her more than I would in the past. Okay. Do you guys hang out outside of work? We've gone to get like breakfast once or twice, but outside of that, no. Okay. And when you had breakfast, like what'd you guys talk about? A lot about work. We work in health care and then

just like um just like random things other people we know drama do you think she might like you are you completely unsure or do you think she probably doesn't like you and you're trying to figure out how to get her to like you which one of the three do you think is most true? I think she probably doesn't like me or doesn't think of me in that way, and I'm trying to kind of get her to like me. Well, listen, that's a tough one. As far as comparing yourself to a reality TV show, I think that's dangerous. Bad place to start.

Yeah, dangerous territory. Obviously, like Ashley and Jared are an extreme example of what persistence can offer in the long run. I kind of joke with them and people like to give me shit because I once said they'll never be together and now they're married and they're a wonderful couple. And that's an extreme extreme situation it's very much the exception to the rule and you know for them they truly were best friends right like it's it's a such a unique situation that's hard to replicate which is why it was unique in its outcome so to speak because the only thing they weren't doing to my knowledge is like being intimate and and hooking up but like

they they truly were best friends on so many levels they hung out constantly they essentially went on dates constantly they they were each other's closest confidants you know they were truly there and they developed such a an intense emotional strong connection that once Ashley got sick of Jared not wanting to take the next step and progress that relationship into an actual romantic relationship, she finally got the courage to leave and Jared was left with losing this insane, huge emotional connection that he had with ashley and that kind of propelled him into him kind of waking up so to speak obviously that's not the situation you're in this is a girl that you're friendly with most likely right so the best thing you can now how did you why do you think she knows that you might like her just because yeah well why i think that i like obviously like i said earlier like we've been talking a little bit more now or like i've been hanging

out with her more now at work and stuff like that and uh i've been kind of flirty and i think sometimes like there's like flirtiness back but not a lot like when we went to breakfast yeah twice so here's what you should do. It's kind of simple. It doesn't always, it mostly often doesn't work, right? But like no one likes to be convinced to do anything, right? Like once you sense that someone's trying to convince you to do something, guy or girl, you're immediately like, I don't know if I want to do it. It seems like you really want me to do this thing. And that makes me want to do it less. So in a dating situation, if someone feels like they have all the power, right? Because if you're right about this, then she might sense that you like her. So there's power in that. And if you're

in, you know, your question was, well, what could I do to maybe get her to like me? And there's a soft implication of you're going to have to convince her to do so. Right? So it almost works the opposite. You don't want to convince her to want to date you. You want to show her what she might be missing if she doesn't date you. Hey, for all you 21 plus listeners out there, do I have a wonderful drink for you.

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The Rothy's revolution. Upgrade your closet with washable, sustainable, stylish shoes and handbags with Rothy's from Rothy's. Head to rothys.com slash V-I-A-L-L to find your new favorites today. That's R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. So step one, and I've said this on, you know, in any situation is always, and I say this a lot to women and I'll say this to you too, because it applies to both, is that you have to confidently put yourself out there and say to her in a respectful way what you would like to have happen at the risk of being really nervous and awkward and being rejected by her and her saying something like, you seem really nice, but I just don't think I

like you that way. Right. And you probably, and that's what you think might happen. That's what your fear is. And so what do you do is what most people do is, well, their gut tells them this person's not gonna like me, so I have to, in a more kind of passive, low-key way, show them that they should like me while simultaneously not putting myself out there so that I don't get hurt, so that I can kind of walk away with my head held high of all these kind of like tactics that i'm trying to figure

out might work right and that's just the opposite you don't want to convince her to like you anyways so you just have to face your fears right find the right moment and just say it you know just just even if it was a an attacks like it's's always gonna be stronger if you can say it to her face and confidently say that. And just assume she's gonna be like, say no, just off the bat, just be like, just don't say that to her out loud, tell yourself that. Just be like, she's gonna say no, it doesn't matter. But what I'm willing to do is I'm gonna do this for myself

because it's gonna make me feel confident that I did this. Like if you walk up to a girl and say, hey, you wanna go out with me? And she says she has a boyfriend. Does a part of you that makes you feel good that you at least have the guts to do that? You know, it didn't work out the way you wanted to, but it felt, felt good. So in a perfect world, next time you see her, maybe not at work, don't do it at work. Do it in a, uh, non-professional setting. Um, Try to do it in a place where she feels comfortable, whatever, make it easy for her to say no. You want to make it easy for her to say no, in a sense,

because you want her to genuinely want to say yes. So you would just say, hey, listen, you probably know this already, but I just wanted to say it. I think you're amazing. I don't really want to be your friend because I'd like to like, I like you. I think you're amazing. I don't really want to be your friend because I'd like to like, I like you. I think you're great. Don't say anything that's not necessarily true. You don't

know if you love her, you barely know her, but you just have a crush on her and you think she's great and you'd like to get to know her more on that level. So say that, right? If she says, oh my God, I like you too, then great. Then you got surprised. If she says what we expect, well, I don't really feel that way. Only they can really do is very politely. And this is where a lot of young men make the mistake. I mean, a lot of men don't, but don't get defensive. Don't be mean. Don't be critical to say, you know what? That's okay. I'm just glad I told you because I think you're great. And that's all I wanted to say. And just kind of find a way to leave or walk away. Just smile and just be like, well, I'm just glad I told you.

Yeah, for sure. And that will like, trust me. I'm not saying she's going to come around and start liking you, but you will impress her. She will not be expecting you to handle that rejection so confidently and so calmly and like you make sure like say this in the mirror say this you know and and you make sure that when you say this to her if she does reject you you still kind of have this like smile on your face where like it's gonna be okay because what you're telling her is that you wanted her to know and that you're going to be fine either way and then for sure you let it go you focus on other women you go on dating apps and you don't throw it in her face right but you

don't also don't hide the fact that you might be going on a date with uh you work together right so let's say you go on a dating app and then you meet another girl and maybe you're kind of under her what or not and maybe she's like hey what are you up to like i got a date tonight you know a lot of a lot of people will make the mistake of the person they have the crush on of of like not ever telling them that they're dating other people because they think that's going to like make that person mad that person who doesn't even want to be with them that's a weird thing i've done it too like we've all done this but let her know when she asked don't throw it in her face but let her know when it's appropriate that you throw it in her face, but let her know

when it's appropriate that you are out there and you are doing things. Don't brag. Don't, don't, don't offer information. She doesn't ask. Cause that's going to be weird too. Just be like, guess what I'm doing. And I'm on a date. Don't do that. Right. You know, and, and just show her, whether it's through social media and just put, put the vibe out there that you are, you're as okay as you let her know you would be when you rejected her and that that will that will show you show her you in a new light you know because she if especially if she thinks that you have a crush on her and she just doesn't see it initially and you haven't had the courage to like put yourself out there she's kind of subconsciously judging you for that she's like i don't he likes me but like he's too

afraid to say anything so surprise her and and just be that confident person i promise you even if she rejects you it will you will feel good especially if you handle that rejection in a polite and confident way because unfortunately a lot of guys in that situation will get defensive right they'll say stupid things like whatever like i just wanted to see but i don't really like you anyways just kidding you know like they'll they'll just you know because their ego will come out and they'll they'll feel you know embarrassed or shamed and then they'll want the person who just made them feel embarrassed ashamed to feel that same feeling and that's that's definitely what you don't want to do and if you don't do that and you show her the opposite even if she doesn't want to date you she will be impressed by you all right the advice yeah so

that's all you really can do i i and don't ever try to convince someone to like you you know it's just it gets messy and people kind of see through that bullshit and and then you weirdly start subconsciously thinking this person owes you right because then you might get into a situation where she thinks she feels safe around you she likes going to movies and lunch and breakfast with you so in the meantime of her trying to find a guy she likes she might like take you up on the offer of lunch and and breakfast and movies well, she's got nothing better to do. And if you put yourself out there and she rejects you, don't accept a friendship. Be friendly to her. Be her professional co-worker, but don't accept. If she's like,

well, maybe we can go to lunch and just be friends. And you can just say, listen, I think you're great, but i'm going to be friendly to you but like i have enough for friends and that's totally cool but like set your set your boundaries with her again be very polite be very kind but still set your boundaries with her and let her know that you're not open to being available to her whenever she wants and awesome trust me you will surprise you'll surprise her. Awesome. Thank you so much. All right.

All right. All right. Best of luck. You too. All right. Bye-bye. See you. Don't forget Father's Day is June 20th.

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risk-free offer for 30 days with Echelon EX3 bike for only $1 to start, plus free shipping. You heard that right. One freaking dollar. The only way to get this special offer is to go to echelonfit.com slash files, F-I-L-E-S. That's E-C-H-E-L-O-N fit, F-I-T.com slash files, F-I-L-E-S, echelonfit.com slash files. How's it going? Hey, Nick. Going well, thank you. My name is Emily and I am 31. How can I help, Emily? So I have a rather interesting situation. Just for the backstory, my husband and I have been together for over 10 years and we have been married for about four. And a couple of years ago, we decided to dive into non-monogamy. And we had all kinds of fun with that, just meeting different people and having

fun bonding experiences together, sexual otherwise, it really helped our communication and just has proven to be great for our marriage. And in October of last year, my husband met a couple and he connected me with the husband as he had done in the past with other couples. And it was going fine, like very nice people. And I really hit it off with the husband and they don't live very close to us. So I knew from the beginning that that was going to be an issue. But so often in this part of our life, we didn't end up meeting people anyway that I wasn't too worried. And then as time went on, the husband and I were talking basically all day, every day.

We had developed feelings for each other. We talked a lot about the physical parts. We shared a lot of like, you know, emotional and vulnerable stuff about ourselves. And it got to the point where he shared with me, and I had known from the beginning that he and his wife were polyamorous and that was not something which I had ever considered before and my husband and I had never really talked about it we were more in this for just kind of sexual like fun stuff and stuff that we could do together we had never considered other relationships um I have no problem with it. I just

didn't see. Let me check in for a second. Sure. So up into this point, what was the point or the purpose and the motivation between specifically for you and your husband? So you were, you guys were dabbling in the non-monogamous you say, and was, was, was, were you guys being sexual, either of you from time to time with other people or was this all about establishing emotional connections with people and and and the last follow-up was what's the difference between what your goal with your husband was and say polyamorous so up until that point it had had been purely sexual. We would occasionally meet with other couples and do things. And that had really been a, that was our goal and our interest up until that point. It was really great for our sex life and our bonding.

And that was what I wanted out of what we both wanted. And you both would kind of like dabble in this. And it was, it was it was its couple specific was it always with other couples or would you from time to time find like a single person every every interaction that we actually had in person was with a couple yeah okay and we would like go to dinner and then go to a hotel or something like that so is this like like a like a swapping thing yeah okay i i mean i hate the word but like swinging is the term so it is it's no what you're describing is swinging yeah okay all right um and the difference between that and polyamory

is that um polyamory adds a level of emotional connection that i we were not seeking with anybody else sure because as fun as it was to have these like physical and like maybe one or two time things with other people, we were never looking to have another emotional relationship outside of our own. So up into this point, if you like, so your husband, like kind of recruited this guy or this couple and introduce you to this guy. And up into this point any conversation you would have with the guy a guy right maybe not this guy but a guy would just be all about setting up a comfort level to eventually have some sort of like sexual experience with i mean when you put it that way um but yeah for the most part like we share things about ourselves and but that was on a purpose i'm just kind of just trying to define this because now yes because like for for the for the traditional person it all kind of sounds the

same right so like and i'm i'm i know it's not so i'm just i'm just trying to define the clear differences between you know the swinger lifestyle specifically to what you and your husband were looking for and to the what's changed in this situation, because he was talking to you all with the purpose of building an emotional connection for, for an emotional connection. And up until this point, you were just building a comfort level. Yes.

Okay. And that's, that's the big difference. And I, I knew that he and his wife were trying to be polyamorous and that was what they were seeking. But again, I just never really knew where things would go with people. And considering there was a fair amount of distance between he and I and there were other logistical issues, I never expect. I really didn't expect it to get so serious.

Sure. I really didn't expect it to get so serious. Sure. And so with a polyamorous relationship, does that work with two couples? Or isn't it more of a third, like isn't it like one guy and two women or two women and one guy kind of thing? Or it can be all of the above? I think it can be all. So two couples could be all in a relationship potentially?

Potentially, yeah. The rules are non-existent. The rules are whatever work for you and whatever you want in your life. All right. And so he was like, hey, in case you haven't noticed, I'm into this. And then, all right, and now bring us up to speed. And now time went on. We really connected.

We talked about visiting each other. And we were just really sharing a lot of our lives with one another. I was going through a lot at the time. And he became involved in that. And he just knew everything. And I was very attracted to him. And I had strong feelings for him. At what point, if at all, did you go to your husband and say,

At what point, if at all, did you go to your husband and say, by the way, I'm being recruited on an emotional level and this is evolving past what we're used to? I would say about two months in. Okay. I knew that I had pretty strong feelings for this person. Had you met him in person yet? I had pretty strong feelings for this person. Had you met him in person yet? I had not. And you posted something on Ask Nick the other day saying that you don't think that you can love someone who you haven't met in person. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And that really stuck with me. And I've been thinking a lot about that ever since. And I'm trying to figure out now, you know, if what I felt for this person

was actually love or something else. I love it when it comes full circle, because when you, when I asked that question, I actually thought of that post as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could probably sit here and debate this, right? It's like, it's like, I didn't make the rules. That's my opinion. Right. But, uh, I don't doubt that you had feelings, right? You certainly felt something. That's all feelings are is feeling anything. Right. Um, I wouldn't call it love, right? Cause you have, I mean, how can you, you can love aspects of people, right? You can love characteristics. You can love the conversations you can have. You can love them the way they make you feel, but like, it all depends

on how you describe love or what love means to you. But if you've never met someone in person and so much of what and I'm not just talking looks. Right. Because you can like see here's a picture of me. But like just the intangible and being around them and their body language and how they communicate nonverbally are all parts of who we are, which make a relationship and play a role in love. And so I do think you can have feelings, but I think anytime someone says, I'm in love, or I know, or I think you have to be realistic in what you're limiting yourself by not having a physical relationship of any kind. I mean, like meeting them in person. In retrospect, I agree. So in

this time when I shared with my husband that this person had expressed, you know, kind of wanting to have a deeper relationship with me. And I wanted this with him at this point, I was very confused. So I kept going to my husband and being like, Hey, like, how can we make this work? I have these really strong feelings. Like I want to have something with this person. And my husband was just very against it. He didn't understand the benefit of it to him. This was supposed to be purely sexual and just for fun. And so I was, I kept being torn between, obviously I love my husband and I have a very well-established life with him and I'm never going to leave him for another, you know, in my mind, I'm never going to leave him for another person. But then I also

had these feelings for somebody else that I truly could not ignore. So. Well, the big question is you said you were going through some shit and he helped you out with it and you communicate with him. So to me, it sounds like what this guy was who hadn't met was feeling a need that maybe your husband or other people weren't and anytime someone comes into your life and fills a need that someone else is not you're going to develop some sort of attachment or connection or feelings towards them right i think that's very possible um i mean so the big question is is like can this can your you know what is what is this is like, can this, can your, you know, what is, what is this? It's identifying what this guy was doing for you.

What was, you know, and, and, and can your husband do this for you? Or, or could it be a friend or could it be a therapist or could it be a cousin or, you know, whatever? I don't know. You know, can the emotional connection can be very much be non-sexual. And especially if it's like someone who's just kind of a sounding board to listen to your problems you know and if right like you can build a bond with someone who makes you feel safe enough to tell your problems with right to tell your problems too and and not feel judged and and things like that no very very much. The problems started arising when a few months into our relationship, connection, friendship, whatever you want to call it, he expressed to me that he was going to go on a date with a person more local to his area. and at this point he and I had not discussed that possibility at this point kind of all of my attention for that part of my life was on him and I thought that all of his was on me but it turns

out that it wasn't where was your husband in all this like you so you told your president this you told your husband when this is what going was you told your husband this is what was going on your husband said yeah I'm not what's in pause like time out this is not what we signed up for what what happened after that like what was the discussion with your husband like did was that resolved was that conflict or miscommunication resolved um it would come to some resolution and then but it was never i guess it was never resolved really doesn't sound like it was because it sounds like you were like agree to disagree and then you kept talking to the other guy i'm getting to the point where there was some resolution okay yeah but i just want to i just want to follow this is kind

of fun to follow full i hope i hope i'm explaining it well yeah and i thanks for indulging my questions because i just think there's a lot of people like when it comes to these non-traditional relationships, it's people aren't used to it. There's a lot of standards that are set that you guys, you know, have agreedamous or, you know, I guess monogamous is the only word, relationships between two people. Yeah, traditional. I never expected to be in non-monogamy. Whenever I talk to the few people who I can talk to about this, I tell them that I really fell into this and or we fell into this as a part of our life, it was never in the plan. So in this time, my husband never tells me, you know, don't talk to him or don't do anything.

You know, he said, you can keep having your conversations. You can keep, keep up whatever you're doing with him. But with every day that passed, it seemed like our feelings for each other were getting stronger. And then this other guy went on a date and then you felt jealous.

Yeah. And I like to think that I'm not a jealous person. I'm probably wrong about that. Well, I mean, I've always said like some people are more inherently jealous than others. But jealousy comes from either you're like, jealous comes from insecurity, right? And you can be insecure as a person. You can be insecure about things that happened to you in the past,

or you can be insecure about the person, you know, you can be insecure from the things that your partner is or isn't doing, right? And so you felt an insecurity about this new relationship where a lot of the boundaries were not established. You also had a husband on this, you know, so there's a lot of unknowns. The more unknowns you have about a situation, the more insecure about the answers you're going to feel and the more prone to jealousy you are. So you still might not necessarily be inherently a jealous person, but doesn't mean

you can't feel jealous. Yes, I agree. And I've always thought that in order to be non-monogamous in a sexual way or with other relationships, you have to be very secure in your primary relationship, which I am. But you're right. I was very insecure with this person at this time because I knew that they meant a lot to me and I thought that I meant a lot to him. So this date kind of came out of nowhere to me and it hurt me very badly. And of course I told him, you know, I want you to do whatever makes you happy. You know, he and I were still figuring things out and the logistical issues didn't exist between he and this other person that they did between he and I so I understood the desire to

to do that can I ask you a question at this point in this story if you can remember if you can go back to that time what was your goal like what were you trying to accomplish because it sounded like you were just like you know trying to think of an outlet you were just kind of on this like ferry this boat on going a direction but you didn't really know where you were going and that didn't necessarily have a destination in mind that's what it sounds like or did you because you're absolutely right um the way that i felt about it from like five days into talking to him until the end was i felt like i was just going up and up and up on a roller coaster and i didn't know when i was going to fall for

better or for worse okay which is both uh exciting and and filled with with problems that could create jealousy. But I didn't know that at the time because both this other person and I were very new to this lifestyle. was to be able to just kind of openly love him and openly have a real, you know, quote unquote relationship with him where we could have feelings for each other. And when we were able to spend actual time together. So that, you know, my goal was never to like, you know, cohabitate or have any of the parts of my life that I have with my husband with this other person, we express that pretty clearly early on. Gotcha. So where are we now? So where we are now is that he goes on this date. And at that point, I felt a huge amount of pressure to establish things with him. So it took a couple of weeks, but I had a conversation with my husband where I said, you know, I really leveled

with him. And I said, I think I love this person. I am having deeply jealous feelings about whatever they may or may not be starting with this person in their area. And at that point, he kind of got it. He said, I can see that you having this other relationship is making you happy in a different way than how I make you happy. Just it was having a lot of positive effects on me that. And I never thought of him as like supplementing my husband or filling in in a way that my husband didn't. We've always had a very good relationship. filling in in a way that my husband didn't. We've always had a very good relationship, but it was just this like wonderful thing on top of the marriage that we already had. When you say, so what were those feelings that you were feeling that you didn't,

yeah, like what was making you happy? I felt supported. I felt loved. I felt like he was very much my cheerleader in every point in my life. And not that my husband wasn't doing those things, but of course it's different with my husband who I am cohabitating with, who I pay bills with, who we deal with the difficulties of everyday life with. I didn't have any of that with this person. So we were able to have all the great emotional parts without any of life's challenges. No, I get all that. And I can understand the logic, but was it anything other than just something new and different? That's what I'm kind of trying to figure out now. That's part of my question for you. Well, that's what it sounds like to me. again i i i don't know much about the this

lifestyle right it's interesting it's fascinating i understand some of the uh the concepts behind it and that like what's fat you know and listening to your story there's a lot of fascinating fascinating aspects to it like this relationship you have with your your husband well i'm sure not perfect sounds like great in terms of how you guys communicate like i mean your husband, while I'm sure not perfect, sounds like great in terms of how you guys communicate. Like, I mean, your husband just really seems like a calm and level-headed guy just kind of listening to you say, I love this guy.

And he's just like, you know, and that's such a, you know, whatever your lifestyle is, what you have with your husband, I think I would go on a limb and this is a guess of mine that most couples don't have that. Most married couples, boyfriend, girlfriends, fiancés, whatever, don't have that level of communication to just be so open and honest about things that you're afraid might make your partner insecure and jealous and defensive.

And that's got to be such a comforting feeling to have with your partner. It is very much. And I'm very thankful for him. And when I listen to your episodes and read Ask Nick, I often feel sadness or feel like I have answers for people because I do feel like we've spent a lot of years learning how to communicate the best way that we can with each other and support each other. Yeah. On the flip side, you fell in love in your mind with this person you never met, who when I get you to kind of reverse engineer and describe it, you just describe kind of feelings that anyone could give you, you know, support. You're not wrong you know like a friend a relative you know again like and don't give i love the having a cheerleader having support systems having people make you feel good about some of the mistakes you're making and believing in you and i understand i can understand

that you're you're like not necessarily even criticizing your husband and saying you're not getting it from him so you're supplementing it for this guy hey listen i love to have a lot of cheerleaders like if you're a musician or an athlete do you want one fan or do you want thousands you know believing that you're great like fuck i get it right yeah you make a great point but um with all that said i mean it's it sounds like maybe you've learned but but I think the biggest takeaway here is jealousy does not equal love. And I think you confuse that. It sounds like once he went on this date with this girl, you panicked. You let all of the unknowns and insecurities you had about this relationship turn into jealousy.

And then you said, well, if I feel jealous about him going on a date with another girl, that must be love of some kind. I wouldn't feel this way. I'm not a jealous person. So instead of just recognizing what was going on, you glorified it by calling it love. Well, I had felt these feelings of love prior to him going on this date and i had expressed that to him so it wasn't like you know he said i'm going on a date and then i said but i love you that was not the case sure okay so maybe love love is could it's like it's an argument of semantics sometimes too right like you loved what he did for you you loved your conversations you loved how he made you feel so like to some people i'm not here to say whether you can call say to

someone i love you or not right i love i say i love you to my friends all the time just kind of matter what it means but it sounds like you were kind of going into this i'm in love with you yeah you know and i think i think that's where it gets a little messy like well i i don't i don't i'm not hearing anything from you that in general just my humble opinion would justify you being in love with someone because it sounds like you just love what they did for you they love how they made you feel they loved i loved him as a person also okay great i love i love so many people as a like my i i've chry is my producer we have a professional relationship and as a person i love her i feel like i can confidently say that and i

think she can like not weird her out you know what i'm saying like she's a good human being i love her characteristics i see her in the wild and i'm like what a great person i love you i say i love you to men all the time i'm a straight male i'm not i don't want to and i love them i love what they bring to the world right like i love a lot of people but i'm only in love with one person right you know what i'm saying and i or when i'm not in a relationship i'm i'm in love with nobody she's beautiful by the way i'm very happy for you thank you um but you know what i'm saying so like i just think you kind of maybe got caught up in this, like because he was, and again, this is my opinion, because he was polyamorous and you were open to the idea and you were a swinger that like, you didn't set a boundary for it by saying, I can love

this person. I can love what they do. I can love how they make me feel, but I don't have to be in love with them. And then you got a little controlling and a little jealous and a little insecure and it turned into this monster. And again, you didn't, I mean, I, this is for me, I don't want to be able to be in love with someone I've never met in person. That's just like a choice I make. It's a boundary I set for myself because it's like, that doesn't mean I can't love someone. It doesn't mean I can't love what they do for me. It doesn't mean I can't love the relationship, but in love, like I can't love the relationship.

But in love, like I want that to be special. And that's just a choice I make. I define it for what I want to be because I want, when I say I love you to someone, I want that to be a level up above everything else. So I can want to be able to bring love to the world and love a bunch of people and love a bunch of people in my life and have them love me back.

But I only want one person to be in love with. And I want, and that's just a choice I only want one person to be in love with. And I want, and that's just a choice I make. That's just something I do personally. And so everyone's different as we obviously know. And so that's just a choice. I'm just giving you my opinion. I don't know if I'm right.

It's just a thought, right? But like once you started being in love with them, like how do you juggle that between two people? At times it was difficult, but being so new to this, I don't think either of us ever knew. I just think that we felt like we had something really special between us. And we just wanted to see where we could go with it. It did, you know, every day since I met him through now, I've told myself, how can I love someone who I haven't been in the same room with? I feel crazy for it. It's complicated and messy. And I just go back to, I think the biggest takeaway is I think you and your husband, if you haven't already, need to sit down again and set these clear boundaries.

What makes our marriage and our relationship still priority number one? How does it make it different between these other relationships? What are the rules and boundaries? What are our non-negotiables? Things like that. And have that be very clear between the two of you.

So much clearer that when you do meet a new person, they understand the rules that you and your husband set for that relationship. And those rules supersede any new rules that they have for their relationship. Absolutely. Otherwise, I think this is always going to eventually get messy with whatever relationships you and your husband have. Yeah, I don't disagree. And I've definitely thought about just getting out of it at points because I'm like, why am I?

Oh, I 100% think you need to stop talking to this other guy what not okay yeah yeah i mean he he's basically stopped talking to me well yeah so so just choose to stop talking to him regardless because if you like you should not respond to him if he eventually reaches back out he's had his chance right there's no he definitely has there's no i just think you you're really risking getting yourself in a emotionally toxic situation where you you're the one who doesn't have the power you're constantly it's just a lot of things again that there is ego there where you're chasing a lot of things and you're chasing validation from him absolutely right and so like that and you're chasing validation from him absolutely

right and so like that once you start chasing validation from someone it's no longer a healthy relationship that has anything to do with love it does have a lot to do with your ego i agree all right well thanks for the fascinating story i think there's a lot of healthy takeaways from this conversation whether you're in a non-traditional relationship or not. And I do think more and more people are exploring the possibility of these relationships. So it's always kind of good to hear what people are doing and the boundaries they set for themselves. But fascinating stuff. Well, thank you so much for having me.

All right. Thanks for coming on. How's it going? Hi, I'm Ellie and I'm 24. Hi Ellie. How can I help? So I have a little bit of a predicament. So I was walking by casually with my sister and I run into this guy that I think is really cute. I've never seen him before, just in the neighborhood. And as we're walking, my sister's like, no, you should go back and leave your number on his car just as like a fun like thing. So we

decide to do it. And he ends up texting me a couple hours later. And we end up really hitting it off over text. I look him up on Facebook. And I see all these pictures of him with this guy and the guy is someone that I used to talk to when I went to college and it turns out that they are step brothers okay so you had a crush you have a crush on a guy that is stepbrothers with someone you used to did you that you hooked up with or dated no we just used to like casually like talk and we still keep in touch a little bit like nothing really happened between us but like the communication was like there for years I'm 24 now so I'm a little bit out of college but like this guy doesn't even live in the same state that I do so like I never really like first saw being a problem all right so then what happened at first when I

saw like the pictures and I looked up the new guy on Facebook I just kind of thought like oh they like might know each other from something like I didn't realize that they were actually like family family when I saw these photos and then the second time we hung out I was talking to him about my university and everything and he goes oh you must know my stepbrother and he said the guy's name and at that point it was only the second time we hung out so I didn't want to get into like a long story about it so I was just like oh yeah no like I do know him but I didn't go into any like further. But now that it's been a few more times hanging out, I don't know how I should follow up or address it.

You didn't actually lie, but you admitted the truth, so to speak? Would you say that's accurate? I mean, I said that I did know him, and then the conversation just kind of progressed. I didn't like on it. So I didn't really decline. So you declined to offer information. You assume he'd be interested in knowing,

but he didn't necessarily ask about it because why would he really know? And so you let it move on. And now, and now you've hung out a few more times you feel like the connection has only gotten a bit stronger and the interest has even been gotten more mutual and now you feel like you're at a time where it might be appropriate for you to just be like hey i i talked i i flirted with your stepbrother yeah exactly so i just wasn't sure like when I should bring it up or like how, because I don't want to make it a bigger deal than it really is.

Well, if I'm being honest, you've already made a bigger deal than it needs to be technically. Right? Because yeah, you didn't lie, but you definitely didn't tell him when he brought it up like had he never brought it up you could have easily played it off like you didn't know like you could have pleaded ignorance kind of thing you could have waited to like oh shit like i just realized and now i'm telling you but he brought it up and you were like yeah i know him and i don't know how he's going to

react but by definition you have absolutely created but you've potentially made this a bigger deal than it needs to be because now when you do tell him the first thing he's going to think about is that moment then which he brought it up now just reverse the situation like reverse the situation you like a guy uh you brought something up oh did you know her or whatever and he was just like yeah and then you know maybe it's not your stepsister but maybe it's a friend or a co-worker or whatever and maybe you like or dislike this girl what doesn't matter you have a feeling towards this person and all of a sudden he was like so gotta tell you something, you know, when you brought up, you know, Erica, in fact,

you know, I do know her. We kind of flirted for a while. Nothing really happened. How would you feel? Like you would be, you'd be kind of irritated. You'd be like, you'd be like, did he lie to me? Did he not lie to me? Why didn't he just tell me now?

It's weird. I don't know. Like you felt the need to not tell me and you might get over it, but you would think about that moment. So now he's going to think about that moment when you omitted the truth. So not to put more pressure on it, but just learn in the future. Sometimes when you become aware of a potentially awkward awkward situation like this when you first start dating someone like you don't necessarily need to bring it up right away but i think you need to be prepared in the future to just be honest about it especially if they bring it up just be

like yeah actually and i'm just gonna like tell you now because like it's not a big deal but i do know them and whatever uh nothing really happened and and and and then at least he knows at first because you're like early on in dating situations some of these little interactions you're setting expectations for yourself and the relationship like if you were if you go on to date this guy this little awkwardness and how you handled it will be something he brings up in the future in the back of his mind. Like that one time you could have told me the whole story, but you chose to tell me part of the story. And in relationships, we have a way of remembering those things. Women

remember those things like amazingly half the time, like especially in dating situations. We're like, well, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. We're just like hookingoking up and then he says or does something that you didn't like but you didn't have the confidence to say to him when he wasn't your boyfriend but now he's your boyfriend and you're like you know that fucking time and you did this and he's like well we weren't dating but you're like i don't know it still pissed me off and now that you're my boyfriend i want to fucking tell you so i think those are just moments that you just need to be mindful of in early dating situations right going forward this is not the end of the world you can totally get through this So I think those are just moments that you just need to be mindful of in early dating situations, right? Going forward.

This is not the end of the world. You can totally get through this. This might be an awkward conversation, but I think it's something you can learn from in the future. I think I wasn't really like opposed to saying anything. It was more like at that point, I didn't even know that that was like going to be what he was saying at all because like all I had to go off was the picture, which I did not think was a big deal.

So I think I was just so surprised that I wasn't really sure how to best articulate it, I guess. No, I get it. I totally get it. I wasn't addressing it. But I'm just saying you're going to have to address why you didn't tell him in a way. And maybe you just say that. But when you do do it,

I would, without him having to ask, just explain, acknowledge that in a perfect world, you would have just told him right away. But you felt silly and honest. And before anything else happens between the two of you, you just want to let him know. you know it's one of those things you can kind of set up as maybe like hey i want to tell you something it's not a big deal but like i do like you and because i like you i want you to know because i want to keep getting to know you hey remember mark like your stepbrother we we flirted we taxed there was like a really brief time that we were talking and then it just stopped and nothing happened i barely even know who the guy is he might not even remember me but nonetheless like i was you surprised me when you asked me about it and i didn't know what to say and i wasn't even sure what this was but i like you and so i want you to know and i think most likely if he likes you he'll get over it yeah i

also don't know they have talked i think they talk pretty frequently so i think it would have been better like coming from me first. And I'm just like, this is kind of getting it messy. 100%. Right. This is like not a big problem, but it's a, it's a,

I think it's a small learning opportunity to, while really awkward, uncomfortable and afraid of how they might react. It's always best, but given the opportunity to tell the whole truth, there should get it out there because if nothing else, even if it doesn't go the way you want, you'll be known as someone who's just honest upfront. And it's so nice in any situation to know that your partner believes you to be honest, right?

That they don't have to be like, are they telling me the whole thing? You know, it's so annoying in relationships where you're like, I trust my partner. But like, I think sometimes they leave things out and then I have to like ask follow-up questions. It's always annoying when we're in a relationship and we feel like we have to fish for the truth. You know, it's like, hey, what were you doing? And oh, I was just out with my friends.

Well, who are you out with? What were you guys doing? You know, and we do that sometimes because we don't fully trust the person. And these little situations sometimes can plant that seed of doubt. So it's just good practice to try to be upfront. I totally get why you avoided it. It's not a big deal. And it's totally valid why, but it's just a little thing to be mindful of to avoid problems in the future. Because the other one did like reach out to me recently.

Cause he, I know he does have ties to like where I live. The other one reached out to you recently too. Oh, like literally like a week before I left the note on the car. And like, I obviously didn't know their connection. So before,

before you started talking to this guy, the new guy, the old guy reached out. It wasn't after yeah because i live here and i know he has like ties here like his family has a place out here and everything so what do you say i was like surfing and he was like he just like made a comment about that like nothing like major but like he was definitely like trying to strike up conversation but we don't like he commented on a social media post basically like yeah it's like

oh what a cool wave yeah yeah so he was just being friendly and you take it as possibly flirting yeah that's what it is at this point like it is just friendly but just still kind of like weird so the only way to make it less weird is just to acknowledge it. Like anything, anytime something feels weird, you make it more weird by not addressing what's going on, right? Because then you, then you, by not addressing it, you create your own narrative in your head. And then, then they have the other person on the other side of it has their own narrative as well. Like you even said, you don't even know if these two guys are talking you're guessing maybe they are maybe they're not really who knows right and if they do know what does that mean right and if they don't know what does that mean that's when it gets fucking weird

right because this really isn't a weird situation this is like what it is is a coincidence you know and nothing has really happened like it's just a bunch of attractive people acknowledging that the other person is attractive and there's like yeah i don't know she's cute he's hot whatever like that's what's going on so far right like you probably think both these guys are generally attractive you might not you know what i'm saying like and and there's some flirting going on and and that's really it. You know? Nothing's real. No, they are.

It's just so funny. Like, from walking by, that was literally, like, a split decision. Like, I've never done that before. And I was just like, yeah, whatever. And then, like, out of all people, I find this picture. And they're, like, together at, like, a family gathering. Like, that's so weird. Yeah.

And then I find that. It's a coincidence. It's a coincidence. It's not a big deal. Right? And so just don't make it a bigger deal than it needs to be if it did progress like you don't think i mean i don't know like i just can't who knows right like no it's 100 not a deal breaker if two people really like each other oh you flirted with my whoever like my step even if even if they were blood brothers like i don't care like you you didn't do anything with them you were like hey and he like he thinks you're an attractive person

you know like no i don't think that's a deal breaker if if if he's not all that interested and if if to him you're just another cute girl, then he might be like, it's not worth it. So biggest takeaway is in the future, even if they don't ask, if there's a truth you know you want to get out and you know you need to say it, just say it. Because even if it's awkward, you're going to gain a lot of credibility being someone who told the truth when most people would avoid telling the whole story. And they might would avoid telling the whole story. And they might even avoid telling the whole story. And especially when you do that, people really will be like, wow, I can trust you. And that's not a very attractive thing that I think people like dismiss early on

in dating situations. It wouldn't given the opportunity just to be honest when you don't really know someone, people pay attention to that. You build a level of trust with someone. You just kind of did what most people would do. Not the end of the world, right? But you didn't gain any points from it. And this will be a small thing that you're going to have to address and get over. Also not the end of the world. So there's a big takeaway from that. And the second takeaway is it's not a big enough reason for it not to end it. And if he does end it, it's just an excuse he's using. Okay.

All right. Thank you. That made me feel a little better. I'm going to bring it up when I can. Do it. Bring it up in person. Don't bring it up on the next date. Okay.

Yeah. I'll do that. All right. All right. Well, best of luck all right bye-bye how's it going i'm good what's your name my name's jill i'm 30 hi jill how can i help okay well it's kind of embarrassing to admit but i I'm having friendship issues. I worked with a group of girls. We were pretty close. We all got different jobs about two and a half years ago. So we've been trying to keep,

you know, the friendship going, not working together, not spending as much time together, three separate families, kids in school, kids in sports, all that kind of thing. So then the pandemic started and we haven't been hanging out. We've been texting back and forth. You can notice like time where would get longer in between. We would talk to each other. Um, I wasn't ready to go out during the pandemic. Um, I was working in the COVID unit a lot and I didn't feel safe doing so. They continued to go out though, which was okay. But they stopped inviting me, it feels like. And so every so often I'll pop on and social media after I've been struggling to get together with them. And they're out together. You know, they're going on

double dates with each other's spouses and stuff. And I'm just like, waiting over here. And the only opportunity I've gotten is like a 9am coffee date. So I reached out and told them that my feelings were hurt. They weren't including me, I try to be as communicative as possible. And I just keep getting hit with, you know, kind of like I'm in the wrong, like I shouldn't make such a big deal out of it. And I'm ridiculous for caring about social media stuff, and that I'm immature and all this kind of stuff. So I just need to know, am I the asshole? Am I being selfish and feeling left out? I know this is probably something that people go through a lot, but I've just never felt.

Do you have the text? I mean, is that specifically what you said? Yeah. I went out and I said, like, specific example. Read me the text. Yeah. Here, let me get away from can you still hear me while I'm searching through here yep okay okay so it's happened a couple times but the most recent one was they went out a couple days ago and I said not petty because the last time they called me petty said no petty no shade My feelings were pretty hurt that I wasn't invited to your guys' night out last night after a couple times of me practically begging to have some time with you.

Is this intentional at this point? I know we've talked about getting together before, and I just didn't know if you guys didn't mention it on purpose. All I ask for is honesty and why not inviting me because I feel like an idiot waiting around. What did they say? Okay. So one of them has actually been pretty good.

She said, never intentional to make you feel that way. She said her husband and the other girl's husband planned it all out. We had no idea we were meeting up. We had the night off, had a sitter and they'd been talking. So they just got together. We had no idea that it was going to be a thing. And I said, I can understand that. But then what about mentioning to me um to see if i'd want to come or maybe i could meet up with you guys after dinner said maybe a text like hey we didn't realize we'd get

together could you make it you know you want to hang out a little bit we're here um but instead i get to see it on social media about you guys hanging out and i just feel like you didn't even think that that would make me upset um so that's why I have the narcissist question. I was like, obviously, it's not all about me, but I'm in my feelings about it. But you're worried that you might be a narcissist because of this? Well, I feel like I'm being selfish because why can't they go out together and have their own night? They totally can. And why do I have to make it about me?

And that's kind of the vibe I'm getting from them which makes me question my sanity I don't I guess I don't know well I mean the fact that you are considering that you might be a narcissist would suggest that you're not right because a narcissist wouldn't be reflective on that so I think i think you're good i think we've got we've i've said this before but the uh it's a it's a new new popular buzzword as a result of social media like and clearly there's plenty of narcissists out there but like you know when one you can do a narcissistic thing like being selfish or whatever that doesn't make you a narcissist, right? Now we're wildly over-diagnosing. Anywho, you know,

it's just like a communication issue going on. Have you taught, so this is all going on group text, like you're texting your frustration with a group text? Yes, because I feel like they don't make it a point. Like I've said, let's set up a FaceTime date together,

like all of us. And it was totally like, it was out of the realm of them to be able to do they're just way too busy to do that which i think is kind of impossible listen like text is never the best way to communicate right i understand that like that's how the group communicates in this group text but when now you're feeling this frustration and and so so many you vote you when you send the group texts are personally i think the worst thing in the world but um so you are the already you're you're texting the group as an individual while the group is up so already you by you voicing this frustration in the group you've created this kind of me against the group feeling yeah right and that's what it feels like sure and that's but also probably what it feels

like to them too right so like yeah i'm not in any way defending them at all but just from a straight up just like trying to communicate the most effective way way possible like texting that to the group and confronting the group is going to get them defensive what i think you should do you mentioned one person who's been pretty good about this is you should try to set up a coffee date try to keep it as casual as possible even if you suspect that that friend might suspect that you're going to want to talk about this thing. And then just talk on a one-on-one basis with the one person you trust the most

and just say what you're saying to me. You seem sweet and vulnerable and be like, hey, do I suck? Am I a loser? Am I just boring? You don't want to hang out with me anymore? Like, it's fine. Do I have to find new friends?

But like, is it because of COVID? Or is it like, are you afraid I'm going to like mask shame you or judge you because i'm working in the hospital trying to save a lot you know don't say it like that but you get what i'm saying there could be a lot of variables here but ultimately you're just like i just miss you guys so like you know i hope i hope and and like you said like i don't have to be included all the time but like it just seems like it just seems like i'm being phased out of the group and yeah it does like i use i use that does becky not like me anymore you know yeah is there uh is there an alpha in this group so to speak i don't feel like there there is but

there's one that and personally and i've talked to her about this like as we've grown together you know she has a tendency when she feels upset to lash out sure and that's what i feel like i'm getting i'm more of like my mom is a counselor like let's talk about all of our feelings and like get it out in the open and this is what i'm feeling right now and like what can we all do and she's like um i cannot believe you are so upset about Facebook stuff like art she said like is this real life or is this joking that like

really upset I'm almost positive that the girl who says I just can't believe you're upset about Facebook stuff is the probably girl who more than anyone in this group goes on Facebook and like writes paragraphs about... She really doesn't,

but that's what I mean. I feel like she's saying that just to hurt me because... And that's my question. That's a dismissive thing to say. Did you even reference Facebook or did you ever reference social media? I did because I made mention. I said, I obviously feel

dumb because we're 30 years old like who cares if you post a picture on Facebook but it really does set something in me when I find that you're just noticing that it's not about Facebook you're just noticing they're hanging out they're like look at us having fun and you're like oh well that I used to be in those pictures and now I'm not

there's nothing to do with social media so she is kind of being a little bitch about it. And she is taking an excuse that people like to use on everyone, right? Because social media has become this monster and it creates a lot of problems. And we, I think as a society, recognize that we're all addicted and it's, it's fake and it's all these things. And so she took that generalization and, and threw it in your face and dismissed all of your feelings and what you're

trying to say. So that's not great. And is it, and this is just something I've been racking my brain over. That fine line between insecure and like like diagnosing that as a narcissist incorrectly like obviously did anyone accuse you of being a narcissist they've said that i'm being selfish and i mean i get that right now selfish feelings wait wait so did i just want to be sure did anyone accuse you of being a narcissist no no no so where did that work where did that come from i i mean it's kind of a joke

that i will say about myself because i am insecure in certain things like i always i always think i'm a i want people to think good of me so i always think they're thinking bad of me does that make sense sure we all do that to a certain degree yeah so therefore i'm like fine line i'm insecure or i'm a narcissist i always think it's me. And it's never usually just about me. We're in a selfish society. Everyone is selfish to a certain degree and far more than they want to admit. And that doesn't make them narcissists.

There's a lot of other things that go into being a narcissist, like thoughts of grand ideas and delusion and a bunch of things. I'm not an expert. But being selfish is not... The first thought after recognizing someone's selfish or you being selfish is not to wonder if you're a narcissist. That's a bit silly. You might be someone who's good at feeling sorry for themselves. someone who's good at feeling sorry for themselves and as a way of

being in your own kind of shit, like you go so far as to wonder if you're a narcissist because it makes you you know, like I'm dramatic. Yeah, so you're dramatic. So I would definitely say that. So you recognize that. So you can

be selfish, you can be dramatic, doesn't make you a narcissist. So listen, it seems like you're so, you can be dramatic, doesn't make you a narcissist. So listen, it seems like you have an attempt to be self-aware and that's great. And just because you're self-aware doesn't mean you can't be selfish or dramatic. I'm selfish and dramatic, right? Like, so also it's the people

who have an attempt to be self-aware are the first ones to kind of recognize their insecurities and shortcomings, right? Like, you know, the world's dramatic. We love drama. Like, I'm sure your friends are dramatic too. Your friend who responded by blaming social media, like she's dramatic, right? Because she knew that would elicit a dramatic response from you. She wasn't interested in listening to your feelings and then thinking about how you expressed them and then and then trying to find common ground no she was dismissive and accused you of something that would would might get a dramatic so that makes her dramatic as well right

and so whatever um so the best thing, my, my, my advice still stands is that as far as this immediate group, the best way to try to find a common ground is to have a face-to-face conversation with the person in that group you trust the most and see if there can be some sort of common ground. Listen, this happens all the time. Sometimes too, like people go through, like sometimes you're in relationships and you kind of distance yourself because you're like, you know, fix it in this relationship and you lose touch with friends. And then that relationship like breaks off and you feel like kind of outcasted, but you might've played a role.

Maybe you played a role being like focused on your job and career and like fighting COVID and all these things and you were doing nothing wrong, but they bonded and you missed out. And now there's definitely a bond that they feel that they have without you. And that's just like a sad reality, but that doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong per se. So the best thing you can do is to try not to get defensive, try not to make it about you, try not to get them defensive for not doing anything wrong either, going out while you were busy working, and just make it easy for them to include you. Right. And it sounds like everyone's a little wrong here.

You might've like communicated ineffectively and they got defensive and they started like, you know, accusing you and, and, and there's really no problem. The truth is, is they probably don't hate you. Like you might feel like you suck or you're being a loser.

They just, they've bonded over the course of these past several months without you. And I just want them to be honest about that. And that's what I'm trying to like pull out in them. Like, just tell me that there's times you want to go out without me. And then I won't feel like I need to, you know, when we first fought, it felt like they were mad at me. Why do they need to say that to you? Like, if you feel, you know, like you probably know, like why do you like, you know, all

you can say is, I, I, I miss you guys. Let's hang out. You know, make yourself available. Right. Like the more you worry of being too available and then these are friends. This is not a guy you're trying to have sex with. It feels like it. Well, it feels like that's you got to take me slowly.

Yeah. But you are probably putting a little unnecessary pressure. Your self-admitted ability to be dramatic is making it difficult. I know I've done that. I've been the difficult person to be around before, especially when I'm in my own bullshit or whatever. Maybe it's a relationship problem. Maybe it's whatever. And at times we can be hard to hang out with people. And when we're hard to hang out with people, you're just like, I don't

know. I'd rather not have Derek out because like Derek's always going to want to like, you know, like sometimes I've had guy friends and like, and these are friends like that are friends. And then we kind of lose touch and then like they kind of stop being selfish and self-absorbed in their own bullshit and then they like become cool to hang out with and you start hanging out with again and you're like you remember that time you're kind of a pain in the ass because like every time we'd go to a bar he'd look around for five minutes because no chicks here let's go to a different bar you're like we just got here dude like let it marinate and they were so you know so whatever so listen like you don't need to why do they have to

acknowledge they're just like you know what's probably true so like you're making it awkward you're making it difficult you're like should just be chill and cool and less dramatic and and that might make it easier for them to do okay but i still think you should sit down with that one friend and just say you know yeah like I just I just miss you guys you know don't like don't ask for some big explanation that probably doesn't exist yeah just say I miss you guys I just want to hang out okay thank you for letting me be dramatic it's okay we uh we all can be dramatic you're no more dramatic than anyone else. Okay. All right. Great.

Thank you. Have a good day. All right. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. Hope you guys enjoyed that episode. Love the diversity of our callers and can't thank them enough for sharing their stories.

We need to hear your stories. So email us at asknick at castmedia.com. Cast with a K. You can be anonymous. No problem uh follow us on socials socials bye brian baumgartner Bye.