The Viall Files - E273 It’s Kevin with Brian Baumgartner

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

Today on The Viall Files we are joined by Actor & Comedian Brian Baumgartner who you may know best as Kevin Malone from The Office.  Brian has a podcast called The Office Deep Dive so Nick of course jumps right in to get all the behind the scenes stories on the show.  Nick also speaks to Kevin about his childhood struggles physically and how that experience led him to theatre, and they even take some time to talk sports. So get ready to laugh, cry, cheer and feel all the emotions this episode with Brian Baumgartner.  “They are looking for unknown people, but not like you unknown… ” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: The Zebra: http://www.thezebra.com/VIALL to get your free quote. Make insurance your smartest purchase yet.  Noom: http://www.noom.com/VIALL to sign up for your trial today.  MasterClass: http://www.masterclass.com/VIALL  to get 15% off an annual membership!  Storyworth: http:www.storyworth.com/VIALL to get $10 off your firstpurchase! Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @bbbaumgartner See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Americans overspend on car and home insurance by billions every year and that's where The Zebra can help you. The Zebra is the nation's leading insurance comparison site for car and home insurance. After a few quick questions, The Zebra pairs people with the right insurance company for then helping everyone save time and money. Buy online or over the phone with one of the licensed insurance agents. Make insurance your smartest purchase yet. Visit thezebra.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get your free quote today. That's thezebra.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get your free quote today. That's TheZebra.com slash V-I-A-L-L. What's going on, everybody? Happy Wednesday. I hope you guys are having a great day, a great week.

I hope you're having a great spring, summer, wherever you are. We have a truly world-class episode for you today. Brian Baumgartner is with us today. You might know him as Kevin from The Office. He's just really a great guy, delightful human being. He's even better than you might remember Kevin being. And that's hard to say because we all love kevin but uh brian is here to share his fun and stories about the office what it

was like for him to move to la some behind the scenes stories of filming the show or just his own personal experience it's one of the greatest uh sitcoms of all time it's so fun to hear these stories also just great to know It's also just great to get to know Brian as a person, and we talk about life and his experiences. I had such a fun time with Brian. I'm sure you will have a more fun time listening

to our conversation. Can't thank you enough for tuning in, subscribing, rating five stars for those people who do. So don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com cast with a K oh by the way our favorite people on the team Chrissy Amanda and Allie are with us I hope you guys are doing great

you're in a groove you're in a flow Brian and I have so much to talk about and I know all these people love to hear our stories but you want to get to the meat of the conversation which is Brian Baumgartner so don't forget to again rate subscribe review all that fun stuff can't thank you enough for listening without further ado brian bomb garter

thanks for coming brian absolutely i'm so excited to talk to you today so you uh we were chatting before we got everything set up you uh you were you set up. You've traveled all over the country. Yes. And you were a theater guy before you were in comedy? I was, yes. And really, quite frankly, didn't even focus on comedy. I made a joke. I did way more like Che checkoff than like regular comedy so uh yeah i i went to

smu in dallas they had a conservatory uh training program within the university and then left there and started doing theater and and kind of did there's like a regional theater circuit which no one will even know what that means like if they if in your own town there'll be like one big theater you know like in atlanta and uh chicago and minneapolis san francisco la jolla and so there was kind of a circuit so i would travel around doing shows at different theaters some would travel from theater to theater and um and a few touring shows and that was yeah that was my life pre coming to los angeles when did you come out to la i came out to la in uh 2003 so i went from doing theater and decided, well, I, so this is like, it's a, it's not cool to say this, but I actually loved LA. I loved, I'd come out a few times.

I love, I just loved it. Because there you would think New York. Yes. No, I know. And I really, and I worked in New York. I love New York. When you're doing theater, traveling around the country, you, by definition, don't have very much money. And for me, New York is just, it's really only fun if you can afford it. Sure. to go to New York or LA and do that.

The working was really important to me and I felt like I needed to do some stuff and establish myself before making a move. But I really loved Los Angeles. It took me way longer than I kind of thought it would to come because I did have opportunities to do shows and it was essentially me saying, okay, I'm going to stop working and I'm going to just go to Los Angeles, and I'm going to try my hand at that.

And then within a couple of months of moving here, I met Greg Daniels and Ben Silverman and the folks on The Office. So you were only here for a couple months. I was only here for a couple months. But don't get that smug smile off of your face because it was – I was like, you fucker. No, wait, no. No, but – No, but you were in theater for so long yes i mean

yeah in fact i tell the story the first show i did out of college my parents were incredibly supportive i mean they could not have been more supportive of me and what i wanted to do the first show that i did out of college um was in, Minnesota and in February. And my parents came out to see it. And it was like, are we going to cancel the show tonight? Because it was like negative 15 degrees in this small theater. And my parents showed up and there were 15 people in the audience and they weren't they were they had a positive forward front to me but they have shared with me probably years later that their car ride back to their hotel that night was what in the fuck is he doing what is he doing like this is why there's no one.

He can't make a living. What is this? This can't be it for him. This cannot. No. Yeah, he should move back home and become a doctor or whatever. I don't know. But they were always incredibly supportive,

but secretly they had thoughts. Yeah, that's really interesting because we've had conversations before about, like, we're as parents like where do you find the line between just be like hey you know like maybe something else or just you know supporting their and them in their dream because to do something great you have to everyone has that story or some version of it right and like to your point yeah you got to la and a couple months later but you paid your dues by traveling the country and going to these

small towns and sometimes having 15 people in the audience or you know and right and that i mean most people would quit just to see 15 people. I mean, that's nowadays we, you know, instant gratification is such a big deal. Right. When you look back on that moment, did you agree with your parents? Not agree, but did you have the same fears? I don't know. Like I, I, I am not someone who started out. I mean, I certainly did not start out wanting to be famous like that was that was not a part of it for me or the celebrity part it truly was about the work and about creating characters love doing i just love doing it and you talk about instant gratification because, you know, in a way that live theater experience and having like truly in the moment people responding to me, there is nothing like it. It is so difficult.

I mean, it is true. Like, you know, because by the end, you know, and I was working in in bigger theaters by the end, but still, it's eight shows a week. Your one day off is Monday. Who has Monday off? Like, there's no, like, your life. Like, hey, who wants to hang out? Everyone's like, no, it's Monday. What's a day off?

Yeah, exactly. So you're like, you end up just trying to catch up on laundry and bills and everything else from the week. And it is incredibly, incredibly difficult. But I loved it. And it really was about that for me. And I think, I don't know what would have happened if I didn't particularly like LA or if that wasn't a decision that I made or wanted to do, like how long I would have stuck it out. But I never had any doubts. No, I never had that. And again, I will say for my parents,

like they never, to me, they never expressed those doubts either. They were always fully supportive and, you know, for me pursuing what I wanted to do. It's summertime, people. And no better time to get yourself in the shape that you want to be in and be the healthiest version of yourself. And you can do that with our friends at Noom, based in science and built by psychologists. Noom doesn't give you rules, but instead teaches you

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a hundred percent and i think that yeah so so if we sort of rewind back i like if i had an early dream it was that i was going to be a professional baseball player. Like that was what I was going to do. Yeah. And at that point, I mean, you know, who knows. But that was, I was very, I mean, all sports really, but baseball was kind of it for me. And I had a, my bone was twisted in my leg from birth, right? This was the kind of thing I could have lived with forever.

So my foot was slightly rotated from my knee. So like some people are like pigeon toed or whatever. I was the opposite of pigeon toed. I don't even remember what it's called now. This is something, and it wasn't dramatic, but it was something I could have lived with. But if you want to be a professional baseball player, no, you need everything

aligned and be able to run fast or whatever. So very long story, but to make it as short as possible, I went in and electively as a teenager had they did a procedure which was essentially, sorry if you're eating, severing the bones, both the tibia and the fibula in the leg,

aligning the foot, putting, you know, like if someone has a sports injury now, putting screws and bolts in there, making it set. Then you go back in a year later or whatever, and you take those out, and now you've got an aligned foot. And that was the plan. Well, something went wrong. And apparently I'm in some medical journals or something. This was like the first time this had happened.

The first claim to fame. Exactly. Exactly. So a splint is like a cast, a cast gets very hot and then it cools and that's when it hardens. It's also, there's a lot of chemicals in there. I don't, I'm not a doctor. Talk to somebody else. But basically what happened was they did the surgery. They put the splint on the cast on to keep the leg in place. And there was either some chemical mismixture or the cast got really hot.

At the pressure point, if you imagine my leg is propped up, then the edge of the, my foot wasn't in the cast. The edge of the cast was down by my ankle and something went wrong. But for days I was experiencing pain and they were like, yeah, he's fine. Give him some morphine or whatever. And then eventually they were like, well, he shouldn't be feeling this. So they cut the cast off and it had burned through my Achilles tendon at the back of my leg. So this now, an elective surgery to try to solve a situation, created a situation where I had to learn to walk again.

There were skin grafts. There was, and yeah, there was, I have an old. The cast was burning through your body while it was on you for days? No, I think it did it. It did it. And then it was just there and I was on drugs and it was under the cast. So it was like, yes, whatever. Festering in there?

I don't know what. Oh, my God. But, yeah, so they – I had a friend years later. I went to one junior high, and then when I went to high school, and this was all going on around that time, that I showed up one year at high school, and he joked years later. He was like, I thought it was like a miracle, man. He thought I couldn't walk again.

But yeah, I was basically in a wheelchair. I had a walker as a 15-year-old, whatever it was. Yeah, so, but I was a very active kid. So I was playing tennis, basketball, baseball. those were kind of the big three that i was doing and um i needed to find something else it was i mean it was really

about that like because i was an active kid and now those things i couldn't do that's almost how you got in and that's how i got into theater like that's how i initially got got into it was just trying to find something that i could do a What a blessing. Crazy. I was in high school. I was a big athlete. And I was into art too. And as a defiant child, my art teacher told me to quit sports and focus on art. So I was like, fuck you.

I'm quitting art and focusing on sports. And I had a successful athletic career in college and high school, but I never did theater or stuff like that. And those are things that I wish I would have got into or had someone kind of encouraged me to do so. And sometimes it's things like that that get you to do it. Oh, yeah. And if that had not happened, I mean, there's no doubt in my mind, if that had not happened

and someone had said to me, oh, you know, you're, you know, school play or whatever. Oh, you're kind of good at that. You should go pursue that. I would have said, well, you don't fuck that.

No, I'm going to go play. I'm a jock. Yeah, I'm going to go play, you know, sports. Yeah. And so that forced me into it. And then, yeah. And we were talking to some of your, you know, sports. Yeah, and so that forced me into it. And then, yeah, and we were talking to some of your, you know, producers earlier that, you know,

I ended up going to Northwestern University in between junior and senior year. I think that's when it is. And you show up and it was sort of an intensive theater thing. And it was really at that moment um where i went oh no this is what i want to do like this is it's not just a hobby to keep me active because i screwed up my leg this was like oh no and from there i was just i was i was singularly driven to do what I do now.

In high school, we had this thing. It was our senior year. It was called the USO Show, because back in the day, they would have the USO go and perform in the Army. And so for social studies class, the senior class would put on their own show for the school and come up with these skits.

And me and my friends created this dance and performed and the crowd cheered. And I remember being like, this was a very exhilarating feeling to have the audience respond and cheer. Sure. It's one of those things, kind of like you said, if you would...

Oh my God, please tell me there's a video of that somewhere. I think there is. I would pay for it. The Carlton dance is in there because I was really good at the Carlton dance. Oh Lord. We did it to the song. Please tell me it was Vanilla Ice.

No, it was like the Mamas and the Papas. It was the Age of Aquarius. Oh, my word. Yeah. There is a videotape somewhere. I'm going to DM your sister immediately. And we're wearing wigs and stuff and everything. But the crowd loved it.

And it was one of those things. Your mean girl moment. I remember feeling like, I should have done a high school play. Because this was a lot of fun. Right, right, right. But I just never did that. But that's so cool to think that. Because I'm assuming when you were a kid going through that,

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And I saved a boatload. Yeah, no, it was not good. No, it was not good. And it was just the rehab from all of that. You know, at least in my memory and how it was sort of explained. And again, this was a surgery that i chose i could have yeah never ever done it it was something that i chose because sports was so important to me um and and my recollection was like basically you go in you have the surgery you do a little rehab

you come back it heals a year later and i think that like taking the stuff out is very simple but uh yeah it turned into do you ever since then do you ever think about that kind of whole situation when when i'm sure you've had roadblocks in your adult life or like god damn or that sucks or you made a bad decision? Do you always go back to that? Let's just see, to help you get through when you're really upset about something or things don't work out. Do you think about that? No. Maybe I'm not that involved. I don't know. No, I just never do. Because I just feel like the way you tell that story, it's just like, yeah, listen, I had this elective surgery. My leg almost fell off. I'm super into sports. Turns out that's how I'm like a star. If it weren't for that, this doesn't happen. I'm super into sports. Turns out that's how I'm like a star.

Like if it weren't for that, this doesn't happen. God, that would just be such a therapeutic thing in every situation. Be like, it's fine. It'll work itself. It'll work itself out. No, I guess not. You know, and let me be clear. This was like at the time you're just living life, right? Like at the time and when it was way more about like, oh, kind of like what you're saying,

like, oh, doing these high school plays or whatever. Like this is fun. It was much more like that. It was more in retrospect that I realized like, yeah, yes. Butterfly effect stuff. Exactly. And that's where it is for have. Yeah. Yes. Butterfly effect stuff. Exactly. And that's where it is for me. Yeah.

And I have, you know, thoughts of like all the things, you know, because I, you know, I was used to sell software. Right. And I was, you know, my friend signed me up for a silly show. Were you good at it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was.

I liked it. What kind of software? I worked for a company called Salesforce. So we sold CRM software. Do you see how I've done this? I just turned it around. I don't want to ask him a question. That's great.

And, yeah, so it was one of those things where you just, you're like, fuck it, I'll take a risk. And then I look back on all the things that happened or people I met. And it had nothing really to do with the specific thing I was doing. It was just like a random person I met or a situation that made me meet someone else. And you look back and you're like, wait, if that didn't happen, all these other things wouldn't have happened. Sliding doors. Yes.

Is that a good movie? I've never seen it. You've never seen it? Is that a good movie?'ve never seen it you've never seen it as an is that a good movie i reference it in my brain no one's ever seen it there's a great sandwich shop or restaurant in san francisco called the sliding door the sliding oh do you know what you don't even know what i'm talking about i've heard the movie i've never seen you don't even know what i'm talking about sliding doors it's kind of old It's not like an old, old movie, but is it Gwyneth Paltrow? I don't know.

It basically is about, the sliding doors refers to the subway, right? And the idea is sort of the same. And I don't know if it's a good movie, but I think about that when someone starts talking like this, is that it's about to jump on the subway. Yes, Gwyneth Paltrow. It is Gwyneth Paltrow. And the doors close. And it shows what happens if you make it inside

and what changes by not, by staying on the outside. I think about that stuff a lot. Wait, Brian, as a theater person, did you see If Then with Idina Menzel? Because it's a musical of the same concept. Like if she did one thing differently and then she goes through the whole show with two different lives. No, I haven't seen it. It's great.

It's great? Yeah. I need to know if Sliding Doors is great. Because I referenced it. It's that idea. I just don't know if it's executed that well. I like the actor and I like the concept maybe. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you well. I like the actor, and I like the concept, maybe. Yeah, okay.

Well, there you go. I'll check it out. We've Googled it here in the studio, folks. There you go, sliding doors. That's the idea of it, is basically what happens if you make it inside the subway at that moment, or you don't, and all the ramifications of that. I find Los Angeles, because I hate saying Hollywood because I think that's really stupid,

but Los Angeles, in a way, it's a big city, but I feel like, in some ways, it functions that way a lot. Like, it's a big city, but actually, the connections between people and certain meetings or friendships you make through an unexpected, like after this, like who knew you and I, we were going to be besties. My whole goal of this podcast is to create best friends. We're going to be best friends. And then it's like, oh, you know, Nick, that's weird. No, it's not.

And then, you know, some and then it just like oh you know nick that's weird no it's not and then you know some and then it just becomes i don't know i feel like this this as large as los angeles is or the the entertainment industry i feel like it's small in a lot of ways and all those those connections um happen for random reasons and oh if i hadn't gone here i wouldn't have met and this wouldn't have happened totally i think of la is more of a place not a city right it's like it's more of an idea man yeah it's just it's not really a city it's just like this weird sprawl of town then you're right it can it's super small yes always be careful who you're rude to right um yeah but they're also then there's a lot of people who are just big talkers i remember when

i first moved here everyone's like i'm a producer and this i'm like wow what's a producer and like my other friend was like yeah they didn't you know they produced their instagram you know but um so you were here for two months and then the office happened. Yeah. I'm sure you get this question a lot, but like what you were on your podcast, you were the, no, that was Rain who said he was the first audition. I was just listening. He was the first audition at the office. But like, what did you, you know, you had the English, British version of the office. And so when you were auditioning for it, there must have been some optimism around its success.

You know, because either way, when they start a show, a pilot, I mean, who knows, right? Like, there's so many things, you know, so many pilots that happen that you never hear of and things like that. But did you have a lot of optimism when you were auditioning for the show of, like, this could be something, just be given its success over in in britain yeah i mean i mean i'll answer the question not in exactly the way that you asked it but i but i think to just kind of tell the story which is i was a huge fan of the british version of the show right and so i'm here

a couple months and you know i don't know if anyone who is listening or watching or whatever is interested in being out here. But I feel like the thing that I did, and I think because I was from theater and for me it was kind of about, that was really about creating characters and the art of it. When I moved out here, it was very much about learning the business. And that's what I did. I took it like this is a business and and I one of the things I did back in the dark ages of like not that long ago I was I got a TiVo I didn't have much money I got a TiVo and I just started watching things because I was like well if I get an audition to go on this show and I've never seen this show. How can I know what the aesthetic is of this show?

Or like the comedy or the style or is it like noir-y or is it super serious and straight? So I started doing that. I watched the British version. I loved it. I moved or I met a manager, an agent, and I started to work peripherally with some people. And I said, this is the show that I should be on because they're looking for unknown people. And I had an agent at the time. I've told this story many times, but to me, it's just so perfect if you know agents at all.

I called the agent and I was like, this is the show. They're looking for unknown people. I really get the comedy, this is the show. Like they're looking for unknown people. I really get the comedy. I get the style, what they're looking for. And she said to me, well, they're looking for unknown people,

but they're not looking for you. Unknown, like totally unknown. It's like straight. Yes. Straight to me. And now at the time I was like, what does that mean

now i totally get it it's like known being famous unknown being you've done 17 kind of funny you've been on a whole resume but like yeah killed on like 20 crime shows yeah you know exactly or like you showed up as a delivery man in Seinfeld or like whatever. If you walk into McDonald's, everyone would be like, I know that guy, but from where? Yes, exactly. But my manager worked and worked and worked and worked and got me a meeting with

Allison Jones and who was interested in different interesting people. I mean, I sort of got lucky they chose Allison Jones. I got lucky that she agreed to see me. I mean, I sort of got lucky they chose Alison Jones. I got lucky that, you know, she agreed to see me. And, and yeah. And, and so for, for me, it was all of that work came, came to be to then ultimately just for them to feel like I fit into the ensemble in a certain way early on. So, so to answer your question, I was such a big fan of the British version that I was so excited. I was like, how could this fail?

And being so new here, not realizing, you know, like understanding intellectually it's hard to get a show and get on the air and have it run for a season and then two and then ten years. But I didn't really feel how. So I had this sort of. Ignorance is bliss kind of thing? Yeah, kind of. But once the show started and the ratings were bad, I mean, we really thought we would be canceled after doing a very few number of episodes. And that is not, you know, it's not trying to tell like a little engine that could story

or something like that's just real. Sure. We did the pilot. It really almost never aired. And then they said, well, you can do five more. And so we had a total of six. And then we really were done. And a bunch of stuff happened.

That's crazy to think about. Most namely. I like this shit's Creekway. Yeah, but. I mean, Park and Rec got canceled and then came back i mean i guess that happens but it's at to your point when you look back at some of these successful shows and and just how successful the office is now people forget sometimes the early struggles or don't appreciate you know the challenges that that they had it's interesting because i remember I remember when The Office premiered. Okay.

I remember the previews and I remember like, I'm going to love this. I always liked it from the beginning. Now, maybe it was because at the time it came out, I was a cost accountant at a company called Beciras. And so when it came out, I was like, oh, fuck. That was very relatable. Like I really related to Jim's character. And I remember after it came out, I'd go in this other guy's office and

been like so did that did that sting a little bit when watching that guy we were talking about it just because it was just like the mundaneness of the office and i was like i always felt like as a cost accountant because i didn't really like it it wasn't i just i decided to be an accounting major in college it was my you know essentially my first job out of college and it was just like i don't know i don't really do anything i don't really add any value i do some spreadsheets but like at the end of each day it's just like i don't feel like you know i could die and no one really care you know oh god that's how i felt terrible uh but i remember it was such a in a way the office was like it made me feel like there's i gotta do something else um so i've

i've i vividly remember watching the pilot episode and going to work the next day and like breaking it down with with another buddy in the accounting department right that's crazy um and so and i just remember always always liking it um i never knew because I didn't check ratings or give a shit or pay attention to that stuff. But it's fascinating to think that it might not have made it. When did you realize that? When did it pop? So the first season was only six episodes, which, again, is crazy. Never done.

That's like a burn off order. Like, well, all right, we made done. That's like a burn off order. Like, well, we made these. Let's just air them. And a bunch of things happen. We talk about this quite a bit on the podcast, but the most major thing was after the six episodes, and they're trying to decide

if we're coming back for season two, a little movie called 40-Year-Old Virgin came out. And I think there were a lot of reasons that the show took off after that, but I think several people said that NBC at that moment couldn't let who was quickly becoming

the biggest star in comedy film go. It's like we have that guy under contract. Let's make this work. Let's see if we can try to do something. And then there were a lot of factors that sort of came up in the second season. And so first season airs. Second season comes back in September.

There's a lot of reasons that it started to pick up. And by December of that year, culminating in the first Christmas episode that we did, it got 10 million viewers. And it was like, oh. And then just started rising from there. And so they were picking up. They only picked up six to come back. And then they were like, well, we'll do four more.

It was something crazy like, well, two more. Like they never wanted to commit. Well, we need some on February, so we'll do one more. I mean, it was literally the show was picked up like that, like eight different orders during one season. And I remember then Steve wins a Golden Globe, and there are a lot, again, a lot of things that happened. And they finally said,

okay, you can finish a full, at the time, 22 episodes of season two. And within two weeks, they had said, and you're going to do a full season three, which I think we ended up doing 28 to 30 season three. So it was like from December to February of season two, it became, are we going to be back next week? To like, oh, we're going to be sitting at these desks for a long time.

When do you feel like the writers of the show or the show itself? Because I feel like the season one was very much trying to just recreate the British version. It was just like a remake, right? Right. But when did the show kind of become its own entity? Because from a character development standpoint, we slowly got to know Kevin and Michael and Dwight and really build and then really kind of just became its own thing. Where do you feel like that happened? I think there were two shifts. I mean, I don't disagree with what you're saying,

kind of the premise of your question. But I think there are two answers. I think what's crazy is the second episode that we ever did after the pilot was this episode called diversity day. And for some people it's like, you know, Greg Daniels and I on the podcast, we're talking about it. Like it was our second episode maybe our best? So early on after the pilot, we started doing some episodes that were truly transformative in terms of what you were allowed to or what shows were talking about on network television in terms of race, eventually in terms of homosexuality, gender disparity, all of those things. So I think in a lot of ways, very early, it became our own. But I think to your point, there were two things. Starting in season two, there was a conscious decision. Again, the show is struggling. There was a conscious decision between the producers and NBC to basically shoot an episode exactly the same way that we would season one. Michael is terrible, sexual harassment. Episode is a good example, but can say horrible things, totally cringy. But they wanted every episode to have just a

little bit of an uptick a little upswing they called it just a little something so uh manifesting itself in in moments like oh oh you know he may not be the best boss but he's actually good at his job like he can sell, oh, a Halloween episode. He has this horrible encounter at work, and then you see him afterward with kids giving candy out, and you're like, oh, this is a guy who has more to him that is not just totally terrible. So that was a conscious shift.

That was brilliant, too, you think about it. Oh, 100%. It really makes you, yeah yeah because after a while sometimes you'll watch shows and and shows i like and you're just like i don't like anyone you know you're just like right these are all kind of terrible people right you know and yes and then when with so michael and so many characters in the office you're right since i love that idea that Michael might be a bad boss. He might be ignorant and he might be socially inept. But the people love him.

He's good at his job. He's kind of not replaceable. And it's like this almost Easter egg of, of good qualities. Yes. And I love the arc there. You bring up something that is really important and is beneath the surface. It's not on the exterior, right?

Because some people are like, it's so cringy. I can't watch it. He's so terrible. Or, you know, their relationship is so terrible or like cringeworthy. And,

but at the, at its fundamental base, if you look at the show there's a lot of love oh yeah there's a lot of kindness there's a lot of uh having each other's back i mean there is sort of a a oddly because of the exterior sort of a fundamental goodness and sweetness and heart it just doesn't show itself as obviously sure as some other shows even like the accounting department right you know you oscar angela kevin you and kevin it's like they have this like they're all very different they all make fun of each other but they're also a team right you know and you always see that and i think that's why people endear themselves to

the show or why it's so likable because at the end of the day they want to help each other out and they tease each other right and that really does work right do you to that point you know a lot of people especially nowadays they'll look back and shows like the office and say i don't know if we could make the office today in 2021 because of some of the things that are talked about some of the jokes and sometimes i want is that true because what the office did it wasn't they through a very comedic way kind of pulled called out some of this behavior the whether it's racism or sexism or sexual harassment they show like you never watched it and all the characters like the you know like michael would always get called out by his his employees whether it's if through an eye roll or something to be like you can't say

that what are you doing are you reading everything that i've said? What you're saying is this is exactly right. Yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but when you're right, you're right. No, this is the thing that's so, so confusing to me. You have someone say something inappropriate. I'll give maybe my favorite example from the show. And now I'll probably be canceled for saying this joke, but Michael very earnestly sits down and turns his

chair around and leans into Oscar and says, Oscar, what's a term that's less offensive than Mexican? And Oscar's like, there's nothing offensive about mexican he's like yeah yeah yeah but what can i call you that's less offensive than mexican and he he has he says this thing now you can't say that that's a totally horrible inappropriate thing to say but and even you're saying i'm awkwardly, it's like an awkward laugh. You're uncomfortable. You have 16 people in the room that are holding their head, rolling their eyes, mouth agape, looking at the camera. So what you have are 16 people telling you as the audience, this is an inappropriate thing to say.

This is not something that you can say. This is a misguided statement. This is a guy who is attempting to be PC but is getting it all totally wrong. And so now to go back and say you can't say that joke, it makes no sense to me. Because how do you get to the end result if the joke isn't made? You have to say what the joke is in order to have that response against it. And so I think yes, but I think the show would be different. that as a i think that in addition potentially to michael scott being um called out for being inappropriate in that way my guess is that michael would attempt to be way too woke yeah and there

would be some poking at it actually from i would love to see an office episode on cancel culture there exactly exactly and how you guys i, I think the Office would do, I'm with you. I disagree with, I think the Office would thrive in this climate, right? Because we have such a hard time sometimes talking about these things. Things are divisive. And sometimes through comedy, there is always that kind of common ground. And just the way the Office did that was introduced this kind of

inappropriateness, this awkwardness, this ism, whatever the ism was. Right. And through comedy would teach you, you know, what's right or what's wrong,

you know, because so many people out there aren't, are the Michael, like we're all Michael Scott to a certain degree. We've all been, we've all lacked self-awareness and, and whatever moment. And sometimes we don't

realize it until like we realize people are looking at us like what the fuck did i do and so it we just that it allows people to have these discussions sometimes to totally get the different points of view totally yeah so also it kind of speaks to like, I didn't even, we were for after the struggle period, right? But for most of the time that we were on NBC, we were the number one scripted show on NBC. So we were big. Like, we were the hit. We were the hit of the network. And that's why we were doing like, you you know no one does any more than 22 episodes and we were doing 30 at times because they were like give give us this we need your

numbers like bring in we'll do a whole thursday night do an hour like do as much as you can i mean so much so that the writers and producers were like we can't we can't produce as much television like we want to keep it good um yeah, what happened was when the show ended and streaming really started, I mean, it was on when we were on, but, you know, in the Netflix, the explosion of Netflix and watching things, binge watching, that the show, based on any metric you can look at now, is the most watched show in television today, including new shows, all the hip, cool new shows that are out.

It's the most watched show. And the reality is it isn't close. The disparity between where The Office like how many minutes are being consumed between number one and two is like is almost double so yeah i think the the big stat was the first day that was considered um the pandemic right of of 2020 so it was like march 18th or something like that it was a sunday um it set a March 18th or something like that. It was a Sunday. It set a record. It was something like, but it was like 259 million minutes consumed in one day, and that was streaming alone.

So if somebody had a DVD or was watching on Comedy Central, that's not even counted. It broke a record for all time and for it, or was watching on Comedy Central, like that's not even counted. It is just, it was, you know, like broke a record for all time and for it. And yeah, it's like billions and billions and billions of minutes streamed over the last several years. And that's really why I started the podcast

was to look at why, what has happened? It was a hit. Now, why is it, you know, the huge hits of like the time were like Friends or Seinfeld. And now, why have we taken this turn and gone so crazy? And that's really why we started the podcast was to try to fit. For me, just as a curiosity, why? It is kind of fascinating.

One of those people was my old neighbor. They lived below me and before I bought my house, and the walls were thin, and she watched it 24-7. She kind of sucked, but other than that, she had good taste in television. But it's access, right? What do you mean? It's access.

That's what makes it great, because now you have all these services that make you accessible to these shows that you weren't able to have access to before yeah but the show you're doing before like recording it on your vcr right right like you know no but also but why are they choosing that yeah as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of other shows that they could be so many years later why is it so many years later like enjoyable and why is it still hitting the mark for a lot of people yeah also like i think there's so many nuances in the show it's one like enjoyable and why is it still hitting the mark for a lot of people yeah also

like there i think there's so many nuances in the show it's one of those shows that you can keep watching uh and and get new laughs out of it you know you appreciate new things that you don't don't remember happening and and just kind of the character development i think also plays a big role yeah for sure how do you did how much input did that cast have because i feel like and and i haven't watched it um and i mean i watched the pilot last last night but i haven't watched it like closely for like in a year or so but i i kind of remember like as the characters like even like getting to know you or meeting you like i could see kevin obviously it's not you but like there are also moments of like you know casino night where all of a sudden kevin's this like very competent like gambler or when kevin the musician like how how

much of that was the writers going to you guys and being like well like what are you good at what do you like how can we show a little bit more of you because it seemed like once in a while we'd be surprised by you know dwight or kevin and the humanity that they would have right well i think that um okay oh god I mean we're going deep now if you want to go deep we're going to go

we're going to go deep you drove up from San Diego so you if you have okay

intellectually you think I want more people to I want as many people as possible to relate to something so you

draw a character in broad strokes, right? You make a character very general. And I think what The Office did, and one of the reasons that people are still watching it or consuming it more, is that what I think is that the opposite is true, which is that the specificity and dichotomy that exists within the characters is actually more true and makes it more universal. So I'll give you an example. On a typical television show, I would say, the character of Kevin, he eats a lot, be very messy, totally incompetent in any way possible.

Like, right, you can start to see how that character plays out in a typical television show. But that's not real, right? So Kevin actually, we would have debates, depending on what we were doing, about my sport coat. And I would say Kevin always wears a sport coat. He always wears a sport coat. His tie is a little short, but it's always done up, and he always has a sport coat on. And he may have purchased his ensemble for $39.99 at wherever,

but he's going, like he is presenting himself in a certain way. He cares. He cares. And, you know, by the way michael doesn't think he's good at basketball but he actually he actually has a hoop in his driveway and and he can shoot the rock right he um he the the biggest meta meta joke i'll share it with you because it is hilarious. Also, no one would ever get it on The Office, is that Kevin Malone is the lead singer, drummer of a police cover band. Okay, stay with me.

Police, I don't quite understand the syncopation. I don't know. The beat, the singer in Police sings off of the beat of the drum. Okay. So the reason that Kevin Malone is the lead singer, this is true, and drummer of a Police cover band is that it would take a musical savant to be able to sing Police while playing the drums it's almost impossible right but that was their joke their joke was like no no he actually he excels at this it's a joke he doesn't sing well he blah blah blah but no and so they were constantly trying to find these dichotomies within the characters within all of the characters, that just gave it that complexity.

I think the biggest example, and maybe one of the greatest characters created of all time, is Dwight Schrute, right? So, like, you say, Dungeons and Dragons, nerd, right? Yeah.

But then you go, who loves heavy metal, drives a Trans Am, wants to be a sheriff's deputy like there are this authoritative weird with dungeons and dragons and paintball but heavy this is a character that that is is not drawn a certain way you know nerd like everyone's seen those characters on television. But yet all of those complexities together, that specificity that the writers had with all of that, I think ultimately makes them all more relatable and universal.

And it's the opposite of what your brain tells you to do. It's located in Scranton, Pennsylvania. And here are real places that exist there that these real people go to. And as opposed to, oh, we're in the Midwest and, you know, there's a Starbucks or, you know, whatever, like painting it generally, or even like there's a coffee shop called Coffee Olay, but that coffee shop doesn't exist but no this bar in scranton this exists this pizza place it exists and this is where they would go if they were in offices and i think all of those things um contribute now the the people

buy it because it's true yeah and i think you know you have the office you have these kind of exaggerated personalities of these characters but to you to your point it's relatable because if you've ever worked in an office like it has a bunch of different personalities everyone's weird to their own right you know in their own way and and yet they're functioning even successful people and various things kind of going back to your original point. And you think about, you know, like those charming moments where Dwight would just be this kind of crazy, you know, into all these things and, you know, rude or whatever, heavy metal in his car. And then him and Jim would clash and then they get into a sales call together and they're the dynamic, they're Batman and Robin, you know, and it's like, or Phyllis with her,

her like makeup and she just knows and it just works and as someone who's in sales like i you i loved kind of watching you know it was just figure it out how whatever it takes and and that was always very relatable and fun and how people were able to use their kind of weirdness as their own strength right is always kind of fascinating maybe that's what makes it work is in terms of, I think we all relate to being weird and judged. And we don't want people to find out that we're just kind of fucking weirdos. And the office really kind of makes it feel like it's okay. And still have friends and be made fun of and tease each other.

But have, you know, I think that's what's so great about The Office in terms of, like you said, they're always bickering. They're always rolling their eyes. They're always making fun of each other. But it's a family, like a family would, right? You're like, I have to love you.

So you're my brother and sister. But there's a loyalty there and that makes it so kind of fun and charming. Yeah. And I love that about the show. Who was your – go ahead. Just about that, because I'll give you one specific example. You just brought it up again and sort of said it before.

In terms of the shift between season one and season two, this is like a perfect example, which is in terms of that little upswing right so michael scott is terrible he's hosting the dundies he's in terrible he's embarrassing they roll their eyes he gives phyllis the bushiest beaver award he gives me the don't go in there after me award for the bathroom. All of these terrible, embarrassing, like, God, terrible boss. And what happens is in that episode, there's some guys in the bar that start heckling him. And they say, you suck. And they start literally like being rude and nasty to him.

And Pam, the feeling is, you you know we can make fun of him yeah we can roll our eyes but you you can't and she stands up for him and ultimately has that and so i think that's one example but to what you're talking about that that the family that was created the dysfunctional family that happened to be in an office exist and that's sort of that theme of love and stuff that's like an example so like hey uncle you know crazy uncle larry like the family could shit on crazy uncle larry but like if the neighbor starts talking shit about crazy uncle no no no no no that's larry that's Larry. He's got issues, but we love him. Yeah, the loyalty there.

That thing, yeah. Who is your favorite character? My favorite character? Kevin Malone. I mean, I don't know. I think, I mean, my answer would be Kevin Malone, but I think Dwight, the character of Dwight Schrute, one, what Rain brought to it but just that

that you can go so crazy and so big but if you keep it specific and can make it real and can because it is earnesty yeah yeah and you you go like, people say all the time, like, oh, I know a Dwight. And, you know, like, in terms of the characters, like, oh, everybody knows a Phyllis or a Creed or a Kevin. And you look at Dwight and you go, really? Do you really know a Dwight? Because I don't think a Dwight really, like, that has all of those dichotomies,

but there is a, there is an internal sort of need from him or whatever, or some of the stuff that's on the surface that exists with people that becomes universal. I think he's a genius character. Yeah. And there's so many good ones. It's one of those things you can name one and go, oh, what about Oscar?

I mean, Creed, I've always had a soft spot for Creed. You're one of those, huh? Yeah. All right. Also, after listening to your podcast, one of my favorite lines of the whole series was when he's talking about cults. And he's just like, I've been in a cult both as a leader and a follower. It's more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.

Like, it's more fun as a follower but you make more money as a leader like it's oh it's so good uh but it's it's it's it's such a such a great great show um i i love you mentioned on your show uh how proud you are of the final season of the office you know with mike uh with um michael um well mich Michael not being there but and I really like that just because the show when when he left the show when Steve left the show I think everyone even fans were like oh I'm done and how could you I mean he's that he was the star of the show and and yet it was it still was great it's still and it has its own feel to it and yeah and it was also nice to see more kevin more dwight you know you know more of

the characters that um didn't you know get as many lines and um it was a huge success and and it's really i i it's i i something you should be proud. And it's really cool to watch that. Was that the most fun you had making it? Or was that being proud of it after the fact? How worried were you after Steve left? I was really worried after Steve left. So the general progression was, should we be done? And everybody feeling like, no, I think, I think we've got some

more that we could do. And so what, so he left, um, there were four episodes left in season seven. When he left, we brought in Will Farrell for those last four, which were really about buffering him leaving and us having the time to begin to introduce how the show would be once he was gone. But not just starting a new season

with that. And so he season eight, i feel like we um we were all trying to figure out where where we were uh james spader came in to lead the office and we were all kind of trying it the the structure of the show wasn't as simple like boss like spader was ceo but he was there and it was Andy. And so it just, it all sort of started to change. And as you say, sort of expand out a lot more stories with other characters. But I think that the last season, season nine, we had the rare opportunity that played out over a season,

which was Greg Daniels knew how he wanted to end the show. He'd known how he wanted to end the show from the beginning, essentially, which was for this documentary that they had been shooting for nine years to air. And what he felt like was he always wanted to do that, but he couldn't do it. He always wanted to do that, but he couldn't do it. And I think really the reason is if you look at reality television, is that once people see themselves on TV, the behavior changes. It has to. There's nothing else to do.

You've now seen how a producer is portraying you. You're now seeing how situations are playing out, how things are cut or edited. And, you know, we go into that a little bit in the later episodes when they start to see themselves like, you know, Dwight and Angela had an affair that they didn't think anybody saw the whole time and they were being filmed by the crew. You know, things like that. And so he felt like once that aired, then the show was done. And so sort of the build up to that of the last season

and then what happened sort of to the characters in the aftermath of that, I was tremendously proud of that storyline. And I think that us coming back um for the end is is really special yeah it was really cool it was a great great finale too uh last comment on the office but uh one one of the best teachable moments i ever had from being on reality tv was from The Office. It was the episode where they were announcing the documentary and it was coming out.

And then Andy got all excited and he was looking at reviews of himself and then responding to the critics. And only to find out it was a co-worker of his is trolling them. And it was just more like you just never know who it is and who they are so just don't give it much credence and credit because you know you're gonna it doesn't really matter you know someone whether they know you or not they might just be trying to elicit a response and i remember watching that and just being like okay yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. That was a good lesson. I remember, I don't think it was airing when I was on the show,

but I remember seeing that episode after being first on reality TV and experiencing the internet. And it was a really helpful moment for me. Yeah. That's cool. So it was kind of crazy how like in real life you can, you know, kind of going back to our you know the cancel culture of it all and and it's funny it's entertaining it's great to watch but you can

learn a lot from from the show about yourself and it's the again through comedy the humility of this like the vulnerability of being like you know that yeah i've done that that was me yeah i've been that guy you know and uh it makes you feel good that you can watch someone like Andy Bernard doing it and be like, well, it's okay then. I wanted to shift a little bit just because I have you here. I know you're a big sports fan. Yes. Who do you root for in sports? Well, I'm a little bit weird and in multiple ways about who i root for i mean

the first answer is is that as i mentioned extensively i was a big baseball guy and i grew up in atlanta and i was a huge fan of the atlanta braves and based on my age so i was i was really leaving atlanta when they started getting good okay um so this is like the 90s and greg maddox and john smoltz and um i was a big fan of them too and and tom glavin yeah and so and they turned tBS had the Braves. So as I was going and doing theater places, I could watch the Braves on TBS, and then it sort of shifted, and I could watch like two-thirds of the games

or half the games, whatever. But I stuck with them, and that was my team 100%. And then I moved to southern california and i decided or i realized very very quickly i am never leaving i am i am never going back to atlanta i'm never going i'm never you know my vagabond life is over and this is where I live now. And I was such a huge fan of baseball. It was truly, it was like a conscious decision, which was I could go back and watch a game a year, maybe, in Atlanta visiting family. Or I could buy Dodgers season tickets and jump all in. And that was one of the first things I did.

Now, my tickets moved down in the stadium as the years went on, but I had upper deck tickets, season ticket package when I first moved. And so that, so I root for the Dodgers and I love the Dodgers and the Lakers. And I always really liked the Lakers back when it was Boston and the Lakers. So that was really easy for me. But I,

you mentioned I'm a big sports guy and I, I started to meet people because there are a lot of athletes that are fans of the office. And I kind of play on this. Oh, so lame to even call it this, but like this sort of celebrity golf circuit which is 90 made up of athletes and like 10 other entertainers um and so i started to become

friends with guys who were either current players who were playing or like hall of fame players who had kids that were fans of the show and all sort of in relation to yeah it's a jerry rice and and mj and you know like so there was just this whole and i and i bought in i love that i love as a sports fan for me to play golf with these guys. Like for me, it's like an amazing dream. And so my current sports teams, anyway, the whole point is that a lot of it now and my allegiances really are about the guys that I have relationships with. Yeah, and that's what I always say, which is like, do I root for this weird hometown I used to?

And, you know, from Atlanta, I root for the Falcons. I like the Falcons. Matt Ryan is a fantastic guy or whatever, truly. But, yeah, so I sort of have these weird teams that I root for because I have friends that I've gotten to know, and I root for my real friends and not this sort of innocuous thing. Aaron Rodgers is a fan? So I'm a Green Bay Packers fan. Okay.

Yeah. I'm a diehard Packers fan. Packers fan. I'm a diehard. From Wisconsin, yeah? Yeah. I'm a big Aaron Rodgers fan. Okay.

Good. You're a friend. How do you feel about the situation that's going on? Well, I feel like it is... The situation is just so obvious to me. I mean, it's hard to even say. You go to the NFC Championship game in 2019. By the way, if you're not a sports fan,

you might as well tune out for the next five minutes or hit the skip ahead button. They go to the NFC Championship game in 2019 and they play San Francisco and they clearly don't have the players. They needed some more horses and they needed maybe someone who't have the players. They needed some more horses, and they needed maybe someone who could catch the ball, definitely some people who could defend the ball a little bit better,

but they were in a good spot. And then the draft comes, and you not just do you not take one of those type players, but you draft a quarterback, which is not a position of need, I don't think, on the team, and you trade up and give away other assets to do that. don't have a conversation with your MVP to explain to him why you're deciding as an organization to do that when the MVP has said that I want to retire a packer. So the fact that there is weirdness going on now should not surprise anyone. I don't know why it would because, you know, the fact of the matter is that since that time, the organization has made a number of decisions, all of them triggering and indicating that we didn't make a mistake what we did the year before by drafting a quarterback and trading up in the draft to do that. All the decisions being made are essentially endorsing the fact that your MVP and now league MVP who took you to the second straight NFC Championship game, you've triggered that we're going to at some point

have to go with our new guy. So I don't see why anyone would be confused that we're in this mess. Yeah. I always try, because as a Packer fan, I'm both, but my allegiances have always been with the team. They were with the team when Favre was the quarterback and Rodgers came in.

And so I was just like, all right, well, Aaron Rodgers is our guy. And so now it's like I love Aaron Rodgers. I'm so appreciative of – as a fan, you're just like, thank you. Let me ask you this then as a fan. Do you think they made the right decision? To draft Jordan Love? To do three things. To draft Jordan Love, to trade up and give away other assets To draft Jordan Love, to trade up,

and give away other assets to draft Jordan Love, and to not speak to your MVP about drafting a person that's a quarterback. Okay, I have thoughts on all this. Okay. When they drafted Jordan Love, I was pissed. Okay. At first. I was just like, fuck.

Like, I wanted a receiver, you know? Right. As soon as they drafted Jordan Love, I was just like fuck like i wanted a receiver you know right as soon as they drafted jordan love i was just more like okay well like quarterback the most important position you know as a packer fan you are one of the few fan bases who have seen the benefit of drafting quarterback when you don't need one having them sit around so like like 20 years you know 16 years ago you're just like well that really worked out you know so like maybe this will happen again you're like okay and you're just like you know

we've we've been trained to trust the front office and that that is focused on winning now and in the future so after the when they first drafted i was pissed and then i was just like i don't know well whatever let's hopefully he's We'll see. Hopefully we don't have to see for several years. Right. So the trading up hated that. Right. I was like, why didn't we just see if we could get him then? But then I kind of talked myself into being like, well, if you really believed in the guy, go get your guy kind of thing.

As far as not talking to Aaron, I blame Mark Murphy because he was the one who was like, I'm the politician. I'm the front office guy. I'm the one who's going to be in charge of relationships. So I definitely think they dropped the ball. But I think it's the president who said, I'm in charge of all of these people. So I blame Mark. of all these people so i blame mark and i you know every in the press it's all about gutekens and the gm and i'm just like how is mark murphy not responsible for this i think he should have been in charge of massaging these relationships if i'm just putting myself in errant shoes i

totally understand why he'd be frustrated if i'm is someone who like you know we work with i don't know if he's frustrated by the way yeah i'm not putting words yeah if the reports are true i i could understand i you know i have a relationship with this production company and as a talent i'm i'm always being like what the fuck kind of like whatever and there's a balancing act and i i if i will if i'm aaron i would want to control my destiny, but it's just as a fan, I'm struggling. Sometimes I've been mad at Aaron. I've been mad at the Packers through this whole process.

Ultimately, I just want them back, and I want them to win, and I want him to win more Super Bowls than Tom Brady. But it's, you know, as a fan, you just want your players to play and not care about anything else other than winning, and it's a challenge. Packer fans are mixed because we've been trained to trust the organization. Right. Yeah, and I think I hear what you're saying.

I think that's another just – I think comparing it to the Favre situation of 16 years ago is not right. Really? Yeah. Well, because they have been to back-to-back NFC Championship games. And clearly their team right now is in a completely different place they went to the nfc championship game in farves last year with the packers and he threw an overtime interception to lose the game no no when they when they when they draft oh when they drafted when they draft packers

weren't very good no when they draft right that's true so if the the point is you want to win championships right do you want to win championships right do you want to win championships or do you want to be pretty good for a long period of time like that that to me is a question and i think everybody wants to win championships right and so if you if you were there which is where they were and to me that is the single that's true big biggest difference farb wasn't playing well when they drafted aaron rogers right and they were what six and ten or you know whatever i mean it was a totally totally different situation and and their position of need right now was very specific everybody knew it and um and they choose chose to do something else. Not knowing how he feels,

do you think he'll be the quarterback of the Green Bay Packers? I have no idea. You have no idea. I'm like, okay, whatever. I really have no idea. Yeah. Help me out. All right, Kevin.

Oh, it happened. Oh, my goodness. It happened. I can't believe you just did that. I mean, it only took an hour and a half. Oh, Brian. Yeah. No, it's all right.

Does that happen a lot? Oh, I mean, it happens all the time. It happens to people that I know. Okay, I feel better now. No, I mean, we're now besties. I died inside. I'm so embarrassed for you. We're now besties, but we weren't.

We're about to play a game called Do You Know Me? I'm getting you my goddamn name right. Oh, God. Yes. No, no, no. It happens all the time. I mean, I'll be – you know, I play a lot of golf, and I play golf with guys, and some guys I know really, really well,

and some guys I play with occasionally. I'll be you know guys and we'll talk whatever and then I'll hit a really great shot on hole four and just hear good shot Kev also because Kevin's like a great like Nick Kevin Kev Kev and and

and for me it's always like it's always like do you do I do I correct them because as soon as they realize it, they're going to have the same response that you just did. Oh, mid-sentence, I was like, fuck. No, it's totally fine. All right.

Brian, are you down to play a game that we play with our guest called Do You Know Me? I don't know, but let's try it. Let's try it. It's real simple. I'll ask a question. Does Brian this? Has Brian ever done that?

You will not answer it away we're gonna guess the answer you're gonna guess the answers if you have an anecdotal story story please share you don't have to okay do you know me with Brian Brown letter question number one has Brian ever crowd surfed Oh crowd surf like at a concert I was like I

don't even know what that is has Brian ever crowd I know what crowd surfing is. No. No. He was in a wheelchair, and then he had his broken leg, and then he moved on to the arts, and then I'm guessing no. Hell yeah. I think he has.

I think he has. All right. I'm going to go with no. Yeah, no, I've never crowd surfed. No. I don't trust people enough crowd yeah no i've not crowd surfed i apologize i feel like so there's no anecdotal story if i haven't done it i can't even just move on yeah that's okay i do like a good crowd and i will tell you that um if you listen to the Creed Bratton interview, you will know the story.

He did a lot. Back before the pandemic, when other bad things were happening in the world, there were wildfires in Australia. I don't know if you guys even remember this. Yeah, that was right before the pandemic. Right before the pandemic. And Creed Bratton was supposed to be doing a series of shows i'm interrupting your game no but a series of shows across australia got canceled he decided to hold a benefit

for the people of australia for the thing we do a concert this is like a week before the world shuts down i mean like at the most two at at the Roxy, Sunset Boulevard, there were more people jammed into that place than maybe ever. I mean, it was one of those things where you walk in and it's just hot air, people, breath, sweat. The Roxy gets like that a lot though.

Yes. It's like par for the course. And I was like, of course, when it happened like two weeks later, I was like, this was the super spreader event to end all super spreader events. Yet we didn't. All right, go ahead. But I did not crowd surf. I thought about it

that night. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. Does Brian believe in any conspiracy theories? Any. Meaning like anything from aliens to government. But like he has to like not like oh yeah maybe but like a true believer and at least one like we could do a whole podcast on a conspiracy theory if you believe see i'm area 51ing it maybe i'm gonna say no i think you'd probably be like me where it's just like, I'm sure there's things out there that we think to be true that are not,

but, uh, isn't like, there's no one specific conspiracy theory that you will, you know, want to do a podcast about. Yeah. Die by.

I feel like he enjoys reading about them, but yeah, there's not like one that he would stake a claim. I don't know. I hope there's one. I think you, I think there's at least one that you really would go for. She doesn't know me at all.

She's like 0 for 2. This is terrible. You're 0 for 2. Everyone else is right. I guess I'm transparent. No, I really don't. I think kind of like what you said. I can't remember what you said.

You want to like to read them. You enjoy reading them. Yeah. Oh, no. I guess that's not exactly true. I know. What I think is, which to me is just logic. You enjoy reading them. Yeah. Oh, no, I guess that's not exactly true. I know. What I think is, which to me is just logic, I don't know, that the number of people that would have to keep this secret

in order to make it a conspiracy, that is not possible in human nature. I agree with you, especially with the internet these days. Well, yeah. Question number three. Can Brian name all five Spice Girls? Like their names or their nicknames? No, the nicknames.

No, I say no. I bet he can do three. I bet he can do three. I believe in you. I think you can. This would be like a Kevin moment where you say no, and all of a sudden he just drops them all. I'm going to go with three.

You can name three. I like that. Yeah. I. You can name three. I like that. I think you could do three. No. No, I can't do them. You can't do any Spice Girls. I could do three. I'm panicking a little bit.

And see, now the next question, I'm not going to look in his eyes because I'm sure when he asked that question, he was looking at me and so quickly said, I was like, oh, he totally saw in my eyes that I can't do it. That's kind of. I was like, there's Spice Girls. Well, you know, there's, I mean,

that's the problem is like there's, you know, Beckham. Posh Spice. Posh Spice. Yeah, obviously. What's the little one? Scary Spice. Scary Spice, yeah. Ginger Spice. Ginger Spice. What's the little one? Scary spice. Scary spice.

Yeah. Ginger spice. Ginger spice. Baby spice. Sporty spice. Sporty spice. Sporty spice. Sporty spice. Gremlin spice.

Yeah, all of them. Gremlin spice. I did panic. I did panic. I could have gotten this. Here's a chance to redeem yourself. Okay. Does Brian know who Billie Eilish is?

Eilish? I don't. Does Nick know who Billy Elish is? Elish? I don't. Does Nick know who Billy Elish is? I read it. I don't know how to read. It wasn't one of the best concerts I've ever been to. Sorry, I gave it away. Do you know who Billy Elish is?

I'm not looking at you because I think you would know in my eyes. That's why I'm covering my eyes. Yes, yes. Let's say yes. She's everywhere. Yeah. I'll say yeah. Brian's a little bit i'll say yeah i'm in one of her songs you guys you are oh that's right because she's obsessed with the office because i remember

angela dun dun she loves done no she loves me more than angela are you kidding i interviewed her for the podcast no she'll uh she'll be coming up in an upcoming episode. My strange addiction is related to her strange addiction is her obsession with the office. Did you know that? Is that why you picked

the question or is that just dumb luck? Dumb luck. Oh, there you go. I should have remembered that. Billie Eilish. Let's edit that in there. I was just reading it.

One of the best concepts I've ever been to. See, this is why I'm covering my face because I don't I don't All right. Actually, no, I can deadpan it. Go ahead. Last question. One of the best concerts I've ever been to. See, this is why I'm covering my face because I don't... All right. Actually, no, I can deadpan it.

Go ahead. Last question. This is the last question. Has Brian ever had a fake ID? Yes. Traveling into... What were they doing? Cherubing?

Cherubing in Chicago? You need a fake ID for that. Yeah. No, that's a straight face. i think you fear authority too much or you feared yeah that's the question was he a rule follower as a kid okay i wouldn't think that cherubs would be drinking but he literally said he was like you're you're given like freedom when you shouldn't have he elected he elected to cut his leg in half. This guy's a risk taker. Yeah. Yeah.

You are horrible. You are horrible. Poor Amanda. Yes. I had multiple. But I didn't drink in high school. I didn't drink in high school. But oh, once we got to college.

Yes. Yeah. Yes, I did. All right. Let me see the other ones. Yes. Yeah. Yes, I did. All right, let me see the other ones. I'm going to do them really quick. What are they? Are they embarrassing things on here?

Have I ever been sent to the principal's office? Yes. No, I feel like you got away with it. You hit someone with your walker. I feel like it's your friend's class and got in trouble. And you got in trouble. I don't think I ever was sent to the principal's office. No. So now you're making a comeback.

Yeah. This is Super Bowl. This is. Have I ever looked inside my friend's medicine cabinet? No. I think you've peaked. Doesn't everyone? Yeah.

I mean, everyone peaks, right? Everyone peaks. I thought I held you in higher regard than that. Do I have a creative name for their Wi-Fi? Does that mean like the... Oh, like they give you like a spectrum 915, but you changed it to like Kev's Palace. Oh, Kev's Palace.

Or like the best place? Okay. Like at the airport, I once saw Man's Not Hots name. Okay. Like at the airport, I once saw man's not hotspot. Okay. All right. That would be a creative name. So I'm going to say no. By the way, I've taken over this podcast.

Is this a problem? Literally, I've taken over. They've stopped recording. Anarchy. Go ahead. Based on the fact that you were confused, I'm going to go with no. Yeah, no. Well, this is a creative name for their Wi-Fi.

I didn't know that. So maybe you have like my Wi-Fi. Would we call it creative? It's Kev's Palace. Do I have any magazine subscriptions? Currently? Or have you ever? Like Golf USA or something.

Have any magazines? it's called golf digest that one uh not anymore no you don't no do you has does anyone you have to be a collector say no is anybody else i think you subscribe to the new yorker i said golf usa or whatever something like that amanda's trying to get real specific. No, she's getting close. This is Super Bowl 51. Patriots are making a comeback third quarter. She's really been perfect. It's not the New Yorker, but you get

it's Vanity Fair. I like reading Vanity Fair in my hand on the airplanes. And so I was finally like, why am I spending $92 in every airport, whatever they call it? Hudson News. Hudson News. So I got a subscription.

We didn't even talk about Cameo. Guys, we got a ton of business. Thank you so much for joining me this week on The Vile Files. I will be here now starting next week, every week, asking these questions. Ever had a crazy roommate? Have I ever had a crazy roommate? You've had a roommate you didn't like. Do you see how he does this?

I tried to answer. He's like defined crazy. I don't know. I'm reading the question that's right here. Have I ever had a crazy roommate? Yes. And you didn't like a roommate and you said they were crazy.

I would just go with yes because if he was traveling that much for theater, he's got to have like random hotel roommates every freaking night. There's got to be some crazy people in theater. I don't think this is right but I want to say that you were the crazy roommate. Oh!

You know what? She's making a comeback and now we're done. Now we're done with her. Now we're done. No, and by the way, when you don't bunk up with strangers when you do theater. What in the hell was that? When you're on like a bus tour, No, and by the way, you don't bunk up with strangers when you do theater. What in the hell was that? When you're on like a bus tour, it's to a room.

To a room? Yeah, you each have one of the queen beds. Fuck no. No, I don't know. No. What is this? I didn't know you were like the prince of theater. Like maybe you get your own, but.

I feel like I did a great job describing myself as the prince of theater i mean maybe he was he was in came to la and it's like i'm here to do one of the greatest shows of all time there you go uh brian this has been a real pleasure uh thank you for are you lying are you being serious or are you lying has it been a how much of a pleasure oh amazing okay all right do you find she's all pissed because we've taken too long. No, it's okay. I'm texting and doing the work part. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much. It's been a lot of fun.

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate that. I like the questions. Be sure to listen to Brian's podcast. Is it Office Deep Dive? Deep Dive? The Office Deep Dive. It's really good.

I'm four episodes deep in it. If you are an Office fan at all, you will love the conversations. You interview pretty much the whole ensemble of cast. And the next three weeks, John Krasinski will be on next week. His movie Quiet Place 2 is opening next week as well, followed by Jenna Fisher, I believe,

and Mr. Steve Carell. So we've got a great lineup here coming up the next few weeks. It's really fun. It's the stories you guys share, the intimate. It feels like eavesdropping on two friends kind of reminiscing about the past. So it's a lot of fun.

Be sure to check that out. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K for Ask Nick episodes. And if there's nothing else, we will see you back on Monday. Thanks, man.

Thank you.