The Viall Files - E28 Getting Off on Love with Jana Kramer

Episode Date: July 10, 2019

This week I’m joined by actress, singer and podcast host Jana Kramer to talk about sex and love addiction. But first, Sug and I dissect the hometown episode of The Bachelorette. There were definitely some Bachelor firsts. Once we get into the interview, Jana talks about the first time we met and doesn’t pull any punches. She opens up about her husband’s struggle with sex addiction and we debate whether people who cheat are just bad people. I’m curious as to what you think about this episode! Let me know on Instagram, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: SHIPSTATION: https://www.shipstation.com/welcome-podcast-listener/ CODE: VIALL OPENFIT: Text VIALL to 303030 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How is everyone? And I'm by everyone. I'm with Suge right now. Hi. Hi. So just so everyone knows, if you're watching on YouTube, you're seeing a still shot of the Vile Files. The reason why we're doing this is because we actually decided to rerecord the intro to this episode. Because mostly is that the hometown episode was more awesome than we anticipated. And the episode today with Janet Kramer is an episode that we actually recorded a few weeks ago and had been kind of waiting to drop it. It's a fun episode. But obviously, we didn't have this episode then and we thought you know what maybe we'll just

skip a week of hometowns and we kind of recorded an intro for it we figured not much is going to happen she's going to meet four guys families whatever and then we watched it and it was like damn so i'm literally in new york right now underneath a sheet in my hotel room. So it sounds well. Suge is in studio. Rochelle is out at a wedding. She couldn't jump on. And so Suge and I, we're just going to get into hometown episodes, shoot the shit a little bit.

And then you guys will have Jana Kramer and myself the rest of the episode. So exciting. So exciting. I mean, Suge, this is your first hometown episode that you've ever watched. It is my first the episode. So exciting. So exciting. I mean, this is your first hometown episode that you've ever watched. It is my first hometown episode. And as far as your reaction, I can tell that it's not usually this very changing. Like, I feel like the whole game has changed. I have a different opinion about pretty much everybody. I think that her feelings have changed so much. Well, just so you know, she's you know, I haven't seen every season,

but I don't think this has ever happened where the lead has kept... Leads is like, no, I'm not sending anyone home. You can't really do that. I've been trying to figure out... Apparently you can. You can do that because she did.

She did. But so your opinion of everyone has changed. My just to me, the dynamics feel like they've changed so much. Like, I really have to say, as sweet as Pete is and how lovely they seem together. I just don't think that that's going to last. I think that it seemed a little bit surfacy, you know, and I just like the feelings have changed. bit surfacy you know and I just like the feelings have changed you know I don't know if I didn't get the sense that they changed but I definitely agree with you that to me I think I feel like the relationships with her and Pete and even her and Tyler are almost too effortless you know what I'm saying like it seems so carefree that it makes me wonder how invested she is. At least that's how it comes across.

Interesting, because I feel like with Tyler, I feel like there's so many layers to why that can and could work out if she chose it. Like, not only is there passion between them, but it's just like I've said from the beginning, it just he feels so stable. Everything about him feels so good and so stable. I hope that he wins. I mean, I don't know. Like, yeah, I mean, he's coming across easily the best. So I totally get you on that end. I'm just not.

Do you think do you see Hannah like really that into him? I do. I do. I do. I mean, my only confusion is, again, just like the rest of the world, are her feelings for Luke. And if those are interrupting or diluting her feelings towards like a Tyler. I mean, I don't know. I was, I will say like, I kind of, other than like Pete having a condom in his car,

which was pretty hysterical. Like I, I was kind of bored with his and Tyler's hometown, but like, I thought the Luke and Jed hometowns were well, like, well, at least from a drama standpoint, really interesting. Yes. Have you ever had a guy have a condom in your car, his car? Um, not that I recall. No. Just like right in the, right in the, I mean, you got at the same time.

Safety first. Safety first. You know what? I don't knock Pete for anything. There's just something about their chemistry. Because you know when somebody just says to you every time they're with you, I like you so much. I like you so much.

But it doesn't really go beyond that. Like it's, I don't feel like, yeah. But I think I'm seeing the same thing with Pete. And it's very sweet. And I really do think that Pete really feels that way. But I just don't think there's a lot for Hannah to hold on to, you know, to really, like, sink her teeth into any depth in conversation or anything. It's all very nice, but that's kind of the end of it. I mean, all we know about Pete and his hometown is that whether he's flying you or you're having sex, he's going to get you there safely.

True. Did you write that one down? You know, I tweeted it. But yeah. What did you think of Jed? I feel like his family's super butthurt he didn't end up on American Idol. I feel like his family's super butthurt he didn't end up on American Idol like the whole time I was I mean like this is all based off the scandal of like his other girlfriend or whatever like I think it would have been interesting had that not came out it makes it 10 times more interesting that there's these stories about Jed going into the show with

girlfriend and only doing this for his music career and then meeting his family and being kind of a dick to Hannah and not shutting up about like his passion for music as if someone can't sing and fall in love at the same time it was just like it was bizarre it was just like and also I thought that his behavior at the end was unacceptable I thought all of the boys the way that they were reacting to her wanting luke to stay on and them like huddling right beside him where they could hear and being like fuck this guy i just so rude and absolutely just uncalled for and jed being why why is he too why is she doing this it's like bro you have a girlfriend shut Shut up. Totally. I mean, like, again, I mean, they obviously don't like Luke. I don't know.

I mean, as far as I'm not defending Luke at all, but I definitely agree with you a little bit more, at least your point early in the season, that it doesn't excuse a thing he says. And his constantly having this like uncanny ability to shame Hannah but like just in the sense that like he is a true believer and like watching how hardcore religious his family is and they certainly like whether you agree with his ideologies or whatever they clearly hardcore. And I just thought it was fascinating to at least understand Luke's point of view better.

Yes. I don't agree with it, and it's not right, and it doesn't make his ignorance okay, but at least he's not faking his faith. There it is. Right? Also, his mom's kind of hot. His mom was gorgeous. Her hair. Her skin, her face, her hair.

Gorgeous. She's a total babe. A total babe. That's what a level Jesus will do for you. No, but what was so nice is how loved Luke is. And to see a very different reflection of people who love him. And, you know, it's it's like Hannah said, you can see through it if you look that there is a heart there. Yes, he's confused. Yes, he has really bad tendencies. I would say he has anger issues,

but it's all based in some sort of agreement or truth that he made with himself, you know? No, I totally agree with that. Again, not excusing the things he says at times, but, like, the love that his family has for him doesn't come from anywhere. Like, again, you don't have to agree with him, but all I'm saying is I kind of agree with you that, like, well, it will have to come from him. I think he has the ability to become less ignorant and to become more open minded and to realize how he speaks to Hannah is misogynistic and gaslighting and condescending and shaming her. And not that it's an excuse, but I don't think he really necessarily intends to. I just think that's how he, it's like this kind of contradiction of trying to like live his gospel, so to speak, and sounding judgmental. And again, not excusing it, but at least helps me understand

him a little bit better. I don't know. It's so interesting because it's as if he was taught what it means to love or what it means to be in a marriage. And he's never been close to that before. Right. And he's taught that if you're in a marriage, you don't sleep with anybody else. And when you're in love, you only sleep with one person and your body is sacred and you don't give your holes to anybody else or whatever that says in the scriptures. I'm sure that's very, don't give your holes away. But like even the way he shames hannah it's almost like he would shame himself right like like he used to have sex and he he has this like boring script about meeting god in the shower and fucking all the time and in college or whatever but like and i you know and that's the interesting

part is i think people who are you know sometimes, sometimes I've talked about this with the show of my parents is that while religion and faith can be great, it has this kind of uncanny ability to have people judge other people, especially if they're feeling strong in their faith and they feel like they've made changes. always interesting like if you feel like you've you know you weren't like walking the right path and now you are people like that have this really a like easy ability to like judge everyone and make other people feel judged because it's like they've they've corrected their mistakes and and they don't do that anymore so now they just easily criticize other people and i feel like it's more that than Luke just being a dick. Agreed. Agreed. Did you just say that? I just got a text on my computer.

Sorry, guys. We'll have to. That's okay. We're all picturing you in New York under your sheet. I'm under my sheet. I'm just like, I'm curious what's going to happen. Because honestly, like production wise, I really wondered when it was happening. Like, did production have any inclination that she was going to do this? And from everything I've been told and from what I saw, I don't think so. I think that was like a really sincere moment. Also, she would have to be an incredible actor to really pull that off because she truly looked rattled. But it makes me wonder who she was sending home, like going into that rose ceremony. I have to think it's Luke.

I mean, she did keep saying she had no idea. She just thought she would know when she walked into the room, which is, and she was shaking as she was choosing the roses. I believed every minute of it. I don't think as an actor, as you called it, I can spot him. And I don't think that that was acting. That felt very genuine. But also sometimes like there's our rose ceremonies where the distribution of roses uh how it's actually handed out in real time isn't how you see it on tv but there's no way they could have edited this because there were like you saw the

like the three minutes where the guys were huddled up with roses so like tyler and pete got the first two roses you know that's what i'm saying it's like who was the guy who was gonna go home was it you know no i think it was luke i think why she left jed's date crying i guess you know you're right there's like two yeah you're right i mean her family was a total dick to her and they were basically like i don't know know, like he's going to play music. I mean, he... Do you want to ruin his career for love? Is this real? You've only known each other for two weeks. Maybe. I just

thought Jed was the frontrunner after last episode so it was hard for me to picture... I will say when Tyler and Pete got the first two roses, I was shocked. Who did you think was going to go home? Tyler's going to win. I thought Pete for sure was going to go home.

Yeah. I thought maybe Pete was going home too. I agreed with you that like she likes Pete. Pete's nice. Pete's fun to make out with. But like I just didn't see the relationship that I'm seeing with everyone else. I know. That's why it all felt a little bit scammy.

That's the only thing that made me think like, hmm. I don't know. but I, I, no, I don't. That's why I'm, I'm so all in on this season just because I really don't. I think you're seeing some really authentic confusion on Hannah's part. And yeah, it's fascinating. I'm super into it. And next week, I think we find out who the windmill boy is. The what boy? Oh, the windmill boy is. The what boy?

Oh, the windmill boy. Yeah, who does Hannah fuck in a windmill? Yeah, dude, that was harsh. Any guesses? Who does Hannah make love to in a windmill? She said fuck. I'm using her words. She did?

Yeah, she said I fucked in a windmill. Yeah. Whoa, what do you mean? What's wrong with that? It just doesn't alliterate very nicely. You know what? She's living her truth. It doesn't sound like the name of a song about a windmill.

That's not. Who's your windmill boy? Tyler. Everything is Tyler from now on. I think the show should just be called Tyler. And that's it i'm sold i you know why it's because you told me to go on his instagram and that's good right oh he's so authentic and genuine and he's doing such good and he's helping the kids oh everybody i hope that tyler wins all right well all right we had we i don't know i'm glad we i'm glad we took the time to talk

about it just because i don't think we could have skipped all that and uh just breeze past it when we reconvene next week but hopefully we'll have the full team back next week with me you and rochelle and uh our mystery guest who haven't decided it's going to be yet but speaking of guest coming up next my friend friend, Janet Kramer, Shug is not on this particular podcast. Rochelle is back with us. We're just kind of, we're just playing musical chairs right now with YouTube, but, um, Jenna is awesome. It's a really, I hope you, I think you're going to love it. Um, if you've ever been cheated on, have cheated, if you ever had interest in what, uh, it means to be a sex addict or love addict,

Janet talks a lot about it. She's really open. Janet and I have a very fun, friendly, and kind of contentious, sometimes playful relationship. She's played hard on me in a fun way, and so if you like to hear someone giving me a hard time, you'll certainly enjoy

this, but I love Janet, and it was a lot of fun bantering with her, and I think you'll really enjoy it. i love janna and it was a lot of fun uh bantering with her and i think you'll really enjoy it and as always guys thanks for taking the time don't forget to rate us five stars and we love you very much and we'll all be together in studio and for those of you watching on youtube you'll get the uh video version of the Jana coming up next. Jana Kramer. So beautiful. I'm literally covering my hairy legs with a sweatshirt right now. Like that's how not ready for this. You think they're that hairy

that these high definition cameras? Oh yeah, they're super hairy. I think most people listen to this podcast. Dude, I'm married with two kids, packing cross country move right now, like didn't have time to shave my legs. You're moving. Yeah, I'm moving to Nashville in a week and a half. So literally I came from packing the kitchen to come to do this podcast.

Not that we ever hang out, but I guess this is goodbye. This is goodbye. Why are you moving to Nashville? Well, because I have two kids, a family, and we wanna be able, so okay, I'm from the Midwest. So. Same, what part uh rochester hills michigan what about you waukesha waukesha wisconsin wisconsin wisconsin so we're kind of close so i grew up obviously in real grass like right now we have astroturf in our backyard

so if we were going to be able to afford something in california we would have to move out to valencia or like freaking far out so i like, that's basically Nashville. You know? And I don't really need to be here anymore for my work. Like I've been able to make it where I can just self tape for auditions and do whatever. And I want my kids to be able to ride their bike to their friend's house without me freaking out

about some homeless man. Like I just saw homeless man, literally butt ass naked, taking a piss by our house how is his butt where do you live i didn't look a studio city trust me i didn't look my husband was like why are you staring i was like i'm trying not to stare it's just like he's right in front of our house you know what i've noticed about the homeless it's there's like an actual epidemic i was reading a interview or an article the other day saying it's 86%.

No, Nick's going to talk about how hot their bodies are. Is that what you- Homeless people? They have incredible hair. I knew it. I knew it. Oh, hair? Hair.

I don't know if- Oh. Well, it's because- Every homeless guy I see has like this mane of hair. Oh, there's me and my husband. Look at that. That was on our anniversary. Happy four years, boo.

How do we know? You know that could have been you. Tell me about that. Let's dive into that. So I met Nick. The very first time I ever met Nick, I was going to an interview. And I believe it was... KTLA?

Yeah, KTLA. I don't remember this. I was so excited to meet him because he had just finished I think you just finished Paradise

no it was like Caitlin season really yeah it was before you did Paradise it was a while ago because it was before I was with

my husband guarded broken man at that point yeah and so I was my publicist was like oh my gosh Nick Vial's here and I'm like

oh my gosh make him stay I really want to meet him so I get super pumped up and I see you walking back to the cars to back to the car and you were so douchey like you were the biggest douche how was i douchey i was like hey nick i'm janna nice to meet you and you're like hey and i was just like oh wait wait wait i just said nice to i just said hey but it's how you said hey you basically dismissed me and were like why is

this little fan saying hi to me so clearly you had no idea which i would not expect you to know like who i am that's fine wait a hundred percent but it just felt very dismissive yes so i just was like man okay he's a douchebag everyone was right wait is dismissive and then i walked away and was like that was a disappointment is dismissive douchey? In my opinion, yes. Well, because you had also that persona already that you were kind of a douchebag. How? Sorry.

I'm sorry. I gotta go. Oh, no. But I just. He wasn't expecting this. No, I was totally expecting this. I've heard this story. He likes this, yeah.

So that's why I was totally bummed because you seemed, because I was like, there has to be something there if these girls kept you all the way to the end. But there was something that didn't get you to the final. Well, I don't know if it was. I know what it is. Either.

It's overly confidence. Wait, hold on. Overly confidence. They, I think Andy and Caitlin picked Josh and Sean because they liked them better than me but there's a reason

for that I'm loving this okay I don't think so and as it relates to the show you know because as it relates to

they were the you just like that little piece you know like you're a little too confident I'm too confident yeah I think you can be

too confident about what well I you just you know you you're a little too confident i'm too confident yeah i think you can be too confident about what well you just you know you just seem a little confident a little confident or too confident too confident you don't think it's insecurity i think it's 100 insecurity that's the thing i think you're in that's why i said to you when you were on our podcast wind down um there was something you you don't you don't fully go there you're not fully breaking in like you're hiding something how many minutes have we actually spoken with each other probably 42 minutes combined 42 i think that's high no because you were on our podcast 30 we're talking i guess we guess we talked by the blackjack table.

We did. For about 10. Oh. Yeah. No, there was no, oh. I was eight months pregnant, okay? It's funny. I was talking with Rochelle before you showed up.

I'm good at reading people, as Rochelle's- He is, I'll admit it. I do think people will, people, it's like we talked about this on your podcast, people constantly, I think, are trying to figure me out. I don't know necessarily why. I think there's hints of truth to some people say. I'm a confident person. What do you mean by overconfident?

Sometimes overconfidence suggests I don't have reasons to be as confident as you might perceive me to be. No, no. I just think sometimes overconfidence maybe is dismissive to other people. I have always been. I've always been. I have an ability to be aloof.

A gift. A true gift. Not a gift. It's just a trait, I guess. Ability, I guess guess implies that it's like something you want i have this really amazing ability i don't know if you know this like we all have our stuff you know what i mean like miss giggles over there is you know we all have our issues yeah no i don't doubt i have a little bit of of issues I definitely am good at,

in both in a positive and a negative way as it relates to me, an ability to not give a fuck. That is not always positive for me and sometimes it does serve me well. And I can be- But you not giving a fuck though when you're in a relationship

if you're talking to the person like that and they feel really stupid. When I'm in a relationship, I give lots of fucks. Okay. But if you think you're the one always right though, and how you maybe are overly confident with certain things, a person might feel you being- We're talking about a few different things. Am I both?

Am I always right and overconfident? Or is my always rightness- It could be both. But in a relationship, if you're being overly confident and you also think that your word is the right thing, to the other, like to the girl, I'm like, oh, I feel like you might make me feel stupid when you have the real higher power opinion.

That's a fair, I think that's a potentially fair observation. As it relates to Andy and Caitlin, again, when I'm in a relationship, I have found myself, I think we said this on your podcast, is that I am a big personality, but the women I have dated also have big personalities. Huge. And I have tended to be, if any of the two kind of played the more subservient role, it was me to do that,

but not totally submissive. So at first, and what I'm saying is like, I like a strong woman. So I liked her to be opinionated and strong. Then also you want to take that voice away though too. I didn't never want to take it away, but I also wanted to be heard.

Right, Which takes away, which kind of silences them. And yes, I definitely, listen, I think it relates to Caitlin and Andy. wanted to be heard right right which takes away which kind of silences them and yes uh i definitely listen i i think as it relates to caitlin and andy there's reasons why they didn't pick me and why and they ultimately liked josh and sean better if you want to like get into the weeds of it yeah i was very different than their type of guy uh sean and i are very different like caitlin does like a stage we all know this

uh and i'm fine with sharing a stage but i'm not necessarily fine with giving the stage away get it right you guys can share you guys i'm fine with sharing hey guys welcome to uh relationship talk with nick and jana sometimes i don't sometimes people don't there's a lot of relationships some we some there's the people who like, like they're the, if it's the man is like, he's the one everyone notices. Yeah.

And in other relationships, the woman where she's kind of the alpha in the relationship. By the way. I like a yin and a yang and it's harder to find. I agree with you. Also, thank you for giving me the oils.

I'm obsessed. I actually just put some on my mic so I can smell it. Thank you for saying that. No, I just pulled this out of my purse because I'm a little stressed right now with the move. So I just put some on mine. She's holding our release blend.

Do you like the diffuser I gave you? I do like the diffuser. I have a question about it though because I put it in my son's room. Does it have to be, because look at the, it's going down. So I'm trying to like get it to go up. Do I have to put it on like a higher table?

What do you mean up? Well, it's going up, but it's water vapor and it's lighter than air. So it's like gravity. But I feel like it's only hitting like the floor. Well, it's going all over. Are you sure? Well, this is water steam and eventually

it's uh it's diffused the essential oils are going to vaporize into the air and you don't you're not going to see them you know that's just the steam it just makes me feel like it needs to be on a higher table so i've been trying to put it like i i don't necessarily think it needs to okay yeah um it's gonna reach about 600 square feet So certainly more Than your son's room Well I like the roller too You have a different setting So thank you I'm glad you like it

NHOLs.com First time customers Are getting 20% off right now Oh Yeah Cool Cause I need some more Do you ever bathe in it?

No But I want to You know what I started doing? I put it in my steamer The other day So I have this like Facial steamer And I put it in my steamer the other day. So I have this like facial steamer and I put it in there.

Cool. It was amazing. You should try that. That's a good idea. I don't have a facial steamer. It's really good. And this, so it's like a spa

all in one. Yeah, smells good and your pores are getting nicely ducted. Were you surprised I have such a high quality product? Yeah.

I'm trying to figure out your guys' relationship're like brother and sister no i asked that question because like i am like i knew when i started natural habits that it would surprise a lot of people that i would own and operate an essential oil company and quality was a big deal to me and i just whether it's the packaging and and the quality of the oils i think you know when i do like the packaging when people thought of me doing it i i assumed a lot of people would assume that it wasn't necessarily really mine or that it wouldn't necessarily be high quality and so like you just put your name on it yes and so i am i like asking that question because i actually prefer when people say they know i genuinely like it and I do love

because I like the black and white too. It's my favorite. USDA organic certified. Which a lot of the oils I've found out are not organic. So, and I love that. Like, look how good that looks.

What does 100% pure really mean? You know? I don't think anything can be really 100% pure. Well, I mean, we- Besides my baby. We are. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily, I mean, we are Besides my baby. We are. Well, that's what I'm saying.

It's not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily, I mean, we are in a sense. Right. What does that mean? Anyone can say it. Anyways, thanks for- So what is your take on our relationship?

Oh, I just feel like you came in guns blazing, but I'm all here for it. I just think it's the, like that, you know, brother, sister relationship. You're telling it like it is, and I think that's refreshing. Do you want kids? Very much so.

When? Tomorrow. Really? I definitely. Is that true, though? I absolutely have baby fever. Yeah. Yeah, but enough to, like, be in a committed relationship?

You guys would make really cute babies, though. You and Andy. Yeah. Aww. What could have been? What could have been? Listen, Andy. Yeah. Aww. What could have been? What could have been? Listen, Andy is great. I just think I would have been exhausted.

I like her. We've talked about this in the other week. When it comes to Andy, I have, she can always be mad at me for the after the final rose and she has the right to be. We've made up what i've thought multiple times i have tried f endlessly to have like a uh like amicable and like a friendship with her and sometimes she's seems to be reciprocated and sometimes not she's

just hard yeah so it's like it is what it is you guys are just doing you and that's that's all you can do um yeah so yeah um yeah yeah i can uh i'm uh i am who i am i don't know i i don't uh i don't think i i have always throughout my life been accused of being cocky or overconfident from time oh i mean since i can remember oh really when you're little it always had it always bugged me um because there's a i'm i'm proud that i am a confident person and i am a confident person i often think the criticism i get from conky has to do with uh my demeanor sometimes because sometimes i will walk in a room and i won't be smiling all the time i will be maybe even in my head i won't be overly engaging and then i think people will look at me and then make assumptions based off that like for example when i met you you had an x in excitement and expectation i didn't know who you

were at the time it's fine um and i didn't meet your expectations and then that because you weren't friendly like you don't care you make people feel maybe weren't friendly. Like you don't care how you make people feel maybe. Is that what it is? What? You don't care how you make people feel. I very much do. In fact, when I hear these stories. But like you didn't even like smile when you,

like when I meet someone, I'm like, hey, nice to meet you. I wouldn't be like, hey, nice to meet you. Again, I'm not excusing it and I'm not saying it's okay. Literally that's what it was. And I was like. I'm not excusing it

and I'm not saying it's okay. And I'm not saying I's okay and i'm not saying i like hearing these stories i'm saying that uh as opposed to it's because i'm a douche and i think i'm awesome it's probably had more to do with the fact that i was worrying about something and if it was right after caitlin season god only knows what was going on in my head at that time no i um and i get that i think everyone has because i'm sure there are times when people meet me on the wrong day and they're like, man, she was a BITCH like I I can see how that sometimes when you're not having a good day, but you have to also think about it.

There might be some truth to if you're hearing it multiple times. If I heard if I was a bitch 24- seven from a lot of people or the majority of the time, I would do an inventory check of, all right, Hey, like maybe I do need to change something up. I think I do that all the time, but also like, again, there's a plenty of people who, but you don't care enough because you're confident to actually make the change. I don't care enough in the sense that, well, that's true because this is, so then you're going to continuously get

those comments then may i finish well no not until you get a bunch of people like they kept interrupting each other um listen i i i'm listen i look i'm always in my head to the point of being too much i mean my closest friends will tell me nick get out of your head or you spend too much time thinking about that will cause anxiety will tell me, Nick, get out of your head or you spend too much time thinking about that and it will cause anxiety and you're too self-critical. So,

clearly I care and I do analyze and try to make appropriate changes. I, as it relates to like meeting people in person or a fan who comes, I do actively,

I'm always going out of my way to say nice, to introduce myself, to ask their name. Like for example, if someone comes up oh my god you nick from the bachelor yes to janna except to janna graham i'm i don't i don't bet a thousand you know um and you know sometimes i i will have to say like it doesn't necessarily come natural for me. I have to be like, all right, Nick, be present. Like ask questions. I do get that.

I have a friend that's very, you know, she's very shy. She's very closed off. But in a room with just us, she'd be amazing. But in maybe social settings. So it's really hard because people think she's a bitch. People think that she's not nice. But it's like, no, she just doesn't like these kind of settings. So she's uncomfortable. It also can vary too with me again my first experience in bachelor nation uh wasn't

super positive right and so most people that you meet in person were it's always like the 90% were great but there's always that 10% who was critical or like you could tell they weren't a fan of you and sometimes they'd let you know or they'd ask a fan of you and sometimes they'd let you know or they'd ask a bunch of questions and then i just became more guarded and just kind of like all right here you know and again that's you know it said that is that kind of plays a role into all that but again i've always and to the point of not caring you asked i am secure with myself and i am proud that i don't care so much that I'm willing to change who I am because I think there are, and I'm not saying that doesn't mean that gives you a right to like be a dick or be a jerk, but there are some people who are so worried about not being liked by everyone. They can't be who they are.

Do you think you're a narcissist? No. No? No. No? Okay. I think I thought about being, do you think I'm a narcissist? You should just do the checklist and see. I've done the checklist. Yeah, because you thought you were one? I could be a sociopath.

I don't know. I'm open to anything. Okay. What makes you say that? Well, I mean, we've spent the last 30 minutes just talking about you. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This show opened up with Jana telling me about me. And then I am answering the question.

And then you say. But here's the thing you're you like it's a little like long and so it's like you're you're trying to make up it's like you're trying to do it that way on purpose uh that's very inappropriate i'm kidding um yeah so yeah no i just i'm just messing with you. I love this. I'm fine with it. Do you think I'm, I'm open, like, see, I will also think, I'm fine with it. I will, we can do this.

I don't know if that makes me a narcissist because I'm fine with taking criticism. No, it's, I think that you're also just, you keep going with it. So I think that you have an issue with it. Going with what? The conversation about it. It shows that you. This is a podcast. podcast talk about things should i be shutting things down no but if we were in a third you asked me a question no next question okay oh man do you think this absolutely not next next nope absolutely not is that what is that what i can expect from you when I ask you questions?

Totally. To give me one word answers? Nope. You love me. I was just playing with you. And this is my problem. I'm very sarcastic and I get into that issue all the time.

I'm a very sensitive person at times or sensitive things, but I'm not a defensive sense that like it doesn't yeah i just but that's been my issue like me and my husband would get in i mean people were angry at me on my podcast because i say things that i don't realize that aren't nice but i'm just trying to be funny and so i have to like backpedal a lot and say i'm sorry so i'm sorry nick if i hurt you did not without knowing too much about me oh we're back on you again okay cool i just want to make sure do you think we're similar you are you projecting maybe a little bit because in a lot of

ways i think we are very similar yes i'm gonna read we i think but i think that's why we banter and i think that's why we would clash severely if we ever met in a different lifetime. If we dated? Like in a different lifetime. Explosive. Terrible. Entertaining. I mean, I met your husband.

He seems like a really nice guy. I have some questions. Okay. I have answers. Great. They go with yes and no. Are they? I'm a naturally curious person. and I'm not a judgmental

person. Know this when I ask a lot of questions. Okay. You've been very open about your marriage with Mike. I commend you for that. I think that's really awesome. I think, again, in a positive way, I think where you remind me of me is that you, I don't like the, you're authentically yourself in the sense that you, you might have a big personality, you might talk a lot, you might be confident, but you're not willing to talk about your not so shiny parts of your life, which make you interesting. I don't want to say that I'm, you know, that would, you know, but, but the, you know know I like that about you thank you Nick so you've been very open about your marriage is it hard for you to give compliments

actually no not at all Rochelle I do I compliment you oh yeah and my that's a total no here's what I do actually I I don't feel a little bit like insults we'll be honest sometimes uh i don't i don't compliment easier but you know when i do compliment you uh you're like not i'm not talking about necessarily you should just stop you should stop you're like backpedaling just take her criticism and then just now we can i'm not talking about maybe Michelle's the wrong person. Oh my God. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

Rochelle and I have a very unique relationship that's evolving. But so you've been very, you've been very open about your relationship with Mike and specifically his sex addiction. Yeah. If I, my memory serves. Tell me about sex edition. A sex addiction. Yeah. If my memory serves. Tell me about sex addiction. I don't. Addiction?

Yes. Can you say that? Sex addiction. Do we have a speech problem? Oh, my kid does too. I think so. Sometimes. I can't say bachelor.

Bachelor. You just said it. Did I though? My sweet daughter has a great speech therapist if you need her. Her name's Debra. Okay. She's awesome. We should have her on.

She's really good. Mike has a sex addiction. Yes, he's a sex addict. What does that mean? So he goes, he uses, he has in his past used sex inappropriate in ways to shield him from feeling things or having emotions or his escape goat. So with, let's just compare it to alcohol or drugs, because I think that's an easier one for people to understand.

So, you know, when, if you want to just forget about the day and you're having a hard time or maybe, you know, your parents were abusive or whatever like what you led to so you went to alcohol and you became an alcoholic because of your maybe family of origin stuff that you went through he used sex so instead of alcohol or drugs his his addiction was sex his addiction was so anytime when he was younger and he felt stressed or he felt overwhelmed he would he would go and have sex but it wasn't like he having sex with at the time well and so here's like when he was younger you know it started with a lot of it starts with the porn addiction where you watch porn and it becomes related i was curious about that well some can like some can start with porn some cannot but he started watching porn at

a really young young age and he and by the way i'm for those that are listening to my husband has spoken openly about this so i don't feel bad speaking on his behalf too so i just want to like because i do respect my husband and his journey he's happy you've been you guys have both been it's like yeah kind of the overall like a framework of your podcast yeah yeah yeah so i mean he you know he started watching porn and when the porn wasn't enough it didn't excite him enough that's when you go okay i'm gonna start cheating on my girlfriend so you cheat on people and then when the girlfriend when the affairs weren't enough then you start you know going to other places that people can clubs anywhere you they that he could have found that when did he identify his sex addiction addiction addiction um he um i

caught him and caught him i did in the act no um he there was a lot of things that were going wrong um in our in our marriage we were about a year in and um my girlfriend sarah bryce who i don't know if you listen to country music but lee bryce um his wife and i are besties and she's like i'm sorry to say this but your husband is cheating on you and i was like what like how do you know like what do you like what do you mean she's like from the things that he's you've told me about him and confided in me she's like you need to do some research and so i did some research and so like she was saying as an outsider the things he's saying isn't normal how he's acting isn't normal like his

patterns his patterns are not normal sure but i'm like how like he cheated on me before when we were just dating and i found out because an instagram girl reached out to me and how did you and okay and how did you handle that that i had i've cheated in almost every relationship you've cheated yes and so i why um because i are you a sex addict no i was a love addict i am a love addict who just there's so many different can't you just be a cheater you can and some are and some are just just that's a thing like people no and that's a thing like a lot of people are like well they think sex addiction just an excuse i can understand why people think that but that is a thought that crossed my mind sure and i

totally i totally respect that but because a lot of people don't understand sex addiction because it is such a new it's not as socially acceptable yet but when when you sit in those meetings in sex addiction you know um 12-step meetings there is a difference between a cheater and a sex addict when you are going out of your way to get that fix yeah it makes sense i get that is so different than just cheating on your wife one time or two times or three. It is very different when you go to such lengths to get that fix. When you like, yeah. If I were the victim in a sex addict situation, I could, I get like, I totally get the logic, right?

I get that. I mean, I guess you can be addicted to anything. I get the whole idea of a fix. And, but I guess my question would be, well, I get the whole idea of a fix. But I guess my question would be, well, I'm still in a relationship with you. And even though you needed to do that, the lying about doing it, take it from an alcoholic point of view, right?

If you're married to an alcoholic, they're still usually drinking in front of you right they're if you're married to an alcoholic let's say if you were married in recovery they shouldn't be drinking in front of you no but let's say before they've identified they're an alcoholic right like there's plenty of people who are probably alcoholics that aren't in aa and haven't said i'm an alcoholic right they say that's the first step is admitting you have a problem. A lot of people like are heavy drinkers and it's just like, well, you know, he's just a fun guy who likes to throw a few back.

And so you're in the relationship and you're not hiding it. Like I am a married to this person and they drink a lot. And, you know, as the friend, you're just like, hey, I don't mean to, but are you sure your husband or wife doesn't have maybe a drinking problem? They're like, they not function. And so that, and so they're not hiding that aspect. And so in a sex addiction, I get that addiction. I can't talk today.

In a sex addiction situation, he is addicted to the sex and I get that, but the choice of hiding it and lying about it and the cheating, I feel like- That's part of the addiction. Is another choice. That's part of the addiction. That's part of the insanity with it. I mean, that's, you know, he wasn't sleeping with me either. So that was something that was always, that was I think the hardest thing to get past as like the spouse of an addict being like, you could sleep with all these women, but yet you couldn't sleep with me. And that's hard. And I now, I now understand it. But in the beginning, again, it's the lying is part of the cycle. The lying is part of the addiction that I mean, I don't I don't know what if he knew the truth from like he was

always lying always. I mean, he'd say he'd go to rehab for his knee that he was trying to fix to get back into football. And it was he was going to a hotel and but coming home and lying about it like that's also feeding the addiction was the lies how i what so how do you handle that don't be like right i don't yeah that would be tough i empathize we're like look when i found out about everything i I had a six month old little girl. Sure. And I mean, it was just shocking. You know, I'm like, you know, when I found out that he met one of his affairs at his bachelor party and continued to have, you know, sexual relations for a very long time. And then all these other things that I found out, I'm just like, it just your whole entire world just like flips upside down. And so then he went to treatment for three months. and i was just essentially a single mom at that point i'm like what just like my life like where did my family just go so and i think everyone you know every single one of

my friends was like you have to leave him but there were some things still inside of me where i just i came from a divorced family and there's nothing against parents that leave i totally understand that. But for me, I had to be able to tell my daughter that I tried everything. And at this point now, if it happens again, I mean, we know what's going to happen. But for us, I know I can look at my kids and be like, I tried and this just isn't going to work. It's ultimately a choice. The easy route out is to leave.

And I just didn't want to take that route until I went down every avenue to try to fix it and he was willing to work it too well i don't want to say the easy route out is to leave 100 well listen it's it's it's so easy to leave you know easier to be to file for papers and it's it was harder to be around the three of us together because you know i think what you're you're doing is awesome and commendable i don't necessarily well i don't think for the people out there who are cheated on and then choose to leave i don't think it's necessarily fair to say they're taking the easy route out i think they have every right in that moment every say, this isn't for me, regardless if that person is just a cheater or a sex addict. I also think it's great that you have every right and decided that I'm strong enough and capable.

And I want to make this work. It is a choice. You've recognized that you've cheated in other relationships too. I think, do you think that plays a role in your acceptance of like, that you're not perfect of like, you know, like how could I sit there and just walk away? That played a role. That's why I took him back in the very beginning. Cause we were just dating and I was like, you know what? I've done the same thing and I've wanted to be forgiven and I wasn't.

So this is, that was kind of like my forgiveness for myself in a way. But I also liked that it sounds like you're not just, you're not making it necessarily excuses and you're not playing the role of a victim, right? I mean, is that true? I did the first couple months. I mean, I think that's common at first, but now that you're, it sounds like you're now

that you're doing, you're choosing to try to make this work and now you guys as a couple are choosing to figure out how you can do that he's in therapy you guys are talking about it yeah i think it's really interesting you guys are you're so public about it well because we started to realize i was actually helping people and so awesome and everything i've ever been through there's i'm like there's got to be a reason why and so i have a platform so i didn't and selfishly like like I didn't wanna feel alone either. I didn't, now I have all these women that reach out to me on Instagram and we have like this community of women

that we're not bitching about our husbands on there, but we're saying like, hey, you know, just the support and knowing that we're not alone in it has helped me so much too. So that's why I wanna be able to do this because there's so many people out there that are too afraid to. I was gonna ask that, do you feel almost weirdly like a sense of comfort from it oh i love it now

that you put it out there uh you're like even if people judge you for it you are showing strength there will be someone that needs it yes and then it's oh do you find it almost a level of protection? Well, now that you, well, you guys are so public about it. Yeah. Like before it, like had Mike done this and he's a, you, he, you, you find out you guys are dealing with this as a couple, but like, and it wouldn't be a shocker if you guys like didn't really tell anyone about it. But you say you weren't in the public eye at all. Right.

And it was just like, you didn't even tell your families, but like maybe you had a couple best friends because you needed to get it out but no one really knew about it and you're choosing to work and it's still this kind of secret but now you guys are so public about it like it's just i you're it's like everyone's watching you guys and so there's a level of because you have this support system it's like does it feel like a level of protection from your, all the people around? Like Mike, give to his credit, has been like, hey, I'm, this is who I am.

But now people know. You know, it would be like if the alcoholic, admits he's an alcoholic, and then someone sees him at a bar. And you're like, whoa, buddy, I don't know if you should be here. You know? Yeah.

I never looked at it that from that standpoint, I looked at it in a way of where we felt like we had like support, but it's an interesting way that you phrased it. I mean, yeah, anything helps, you know, like I would hope that if someone saw my husband in a bar and not being

appropriate, that they would DM me. Right. Yeah, I will. I mean, I like, Mike, come on, in a bar and not being appropriate that they would DM me. Right? Yeah. I will. I mean, I- Like, hey Mike, come on buddy. Yeah.

Don't think you should be doing that. You said if he does it again, it's like, like you decided it. I, there's only so much I can emotionally hold. Like I've, and it won't be that where I would be, I mean, of course I'd be devastated, but it's in, I'm at the place now where I would have empathy for his journey that he's going to have, but I can't, and I will be his friend through the entire thing. Cause I have so much

empathy for people that have, they're going through addiction, but I just couldn't stand by as a spouse any longer in that situation because it has taken such a toll on me and our family and our marriage and our kids where I would just need to separate myself from that because emotionally it just wouldn't be good for me anymore. How old are your kids? We have a six month old and a three and a half year old. Okay, so they're too young at this point to process this, but it sounds like eventually they're going to know.

Yeah, and once they get to the age of Google, we wanna be ahead of that and sit them down and talk to them and stuff. um yeah i mean i think kids sense energy and so i mean even when we got into a fight last night and i just you know even when i started yelling i was like oh god shit totally so i mean i also then that's interesting you point that out because like right now i don't think it doesn't seem like even though you were victimized by the situation that you're you're you you're not acting like a victim and i say that in a positive way um but at some point like you said if this were to happen again

you've done everything you could and then it sounds like you're saying well i'm either gonna be a victim or i'm gonna remove myself a situation i've tried my best but i have no other option and here's the thing i mean living with an addict he can't say that he will never not cheat on me again and that's a hard pill to swallow knowing that it the the chances are very high that he will again because the turnover rate is insane for sex addiction so is it the same as like any addiction like sure i mean i think the turnover rate is hard with a lot i don't know this turnover rate so basically they you know they they you know yeah for really relapse and so i

you know there are certain things that and it's not even the physical act of it if he even tries to go down that route again like i i, I just, I can't anymore. Because I, and I already am, I'm a wife of an addict, but there is, there comes that point where I can't keep allowing that to come into my life anymore. And I'll be his friend.

I would 100% support him. He seems like a nice guy. I met him. He's a great guy. Very charming. Good looking. He's a great guy. What do you mean by you're a love addict?

Are you an also an addict or is that something you made up? I am for sure a love addict. And he's a great guy um what do you mean by you're a love addict are you an also an addict or is that i am for sure a love addict and that's a big thing especially i don't know but she said she's so mike's married to an addict too she said as if i mean as if she's not an ad i'm saying do you equate your addiction i don't go to i don't go to the 12-step love addiction meetings so it's called slaw which is sex and love addicts anonymous so i don't go to the 12 step love addiction meetings. So it's called SLA, which is sex and love addicts anonymous. So I don't go. It's a real term. It's very real. I really don't know.

There's 22 million sex and love addicts anonymous in the United States. And they're lumped together? Well, so like Michael goes to only SA, which is sex addicts. Okay. He could go to SLA, but he chooses to just go to SA

because he identifies more as SA. What's a love addict? A love addict is someone, I mean, God, that was me in my 20s. I was constantly wanting you to love me. And even if I didn't love you and you said, if I had a boyfriend, I was constantly finding someone else to love me.

And it was just a vicious cycle because that was trying to fill my void that I had when I was a little girl. What do you mean by constantly getting someone to love you? I asked because- If I didn't get a guy, sorry, to love me in the first two weeks, like that's my mission.

I always was able to get that. And you say love, like you mean like a guy who like says, I love you. I love you. And then I'd be like, okay, thanks. I love you too, bye. And then like onto the next. Like I was vicious.

I was vicious. I was bad. I was so bad. I was so bad. I was so bad. Again, I don't know you very well, but when I did get to know you, you're clearly, and this just reminds me of me. So I don't, this is not a criticism.

You're a professional flirt. You're really good at it. And that's the problem that I've had to be very careful with because I am a very flirtatious person. And sometimes I've gotten myself in situations where the love addict comes in. I'm like, oh God, now I'm in a freaking hotel room reading lines with this guy

and I'm not supposed to be doing this. The reason I only brought that up because I'm getting to know you. You're telling me about this love action I didn't know anything about. And I'm thinking to myself, because like you're pretty, you're a flirtatious person. So you meet a guy, you do your thing. And you said guys like, you know, let's say they

don't know anything about you. And they're like, Jenna, I think she's into me. And so what you're saying is, that's that love addiction, Jenna, maybe coming out to get this guy to think this pretty girl's hitting on her. In my 20s, yeah. Oh, wow. Savage. Yeah. Do you...

Okay. So in fairness to you, though, here's my question. How do you decipher between love addiction and just people? Because we all have egos and we all like to be liked. Have you cheated in a relationship? I've never cheated um i uh you know like you know i've asked like have i been the pinnacle boyfriend i'm i think i'm i do pride myself when i'm in a relationship to be a great boyfriend in the sense that like i i i was

raised really right i'm very thankful of how my parents raised me and and they've been such great examples of how to treat people in and they've been such great examples of how to treat people in a relationship. I've held myself to a high standard in that regard, but have I emotionally cheated at times where at the end of a relationship? I'm sure I have. So if you were repeating that,

then that's what would be the addiction. That's the thing. So that's the difference between one or the other. I've recognized that. And then those were moments where I realized I need to end this relationship because I shouldn't be doing this. And I shouldn't be, I could tell that I was flirting with someone and I liked it. And I liked that she flirted back. And that was when I knew like my relationship was over. Right. And so the love addict would continue to do that in each

relationship. They wouldn't know, they wouldn't have't have that you know that thought to be like oh okay this is what's what i'm doing and i need to stop this okay and so what's the difference between the love addict and that's the the the douchey cheater who like the guy who just cheats or the girl even guys and girls it wasn't who's cheating all the time. Because it wasn't about sex for me. It was about just the emotional love. I don't think I'm a love addict, but I definitely relate at least a little bit to the idea of-

Sex addiction? No, I just wanna know if I can. What do you mean? Oh, like with a girl. Yeah, I don't need to hook up with her. I don't wanna have sex with her, but I just wanna know if I can. What do you mean? Oh, like with a girl. Yeah. I don't need to hook up with her. I don't want to have sex with her, but I just want to know. So then you would go to the fantasy.

So you, you would be part of the slaw, which is there's, it's called fantasy. So it would be, you'd go into a meeting and be like, I, I am addicted to fantasy. No, but you follow through. Most of the time, no. Oh, like he would. Yeah.

I can see that about you. A hundred percent. Most of the time. No, he would yeah i can see that about you 100 most of the time no most like part of it was growing up and been a very catholic family so like i know we talk about sex a lot and i'm sure you know with my character on the bat sure it was like oh nick has sex with everybody truthfully when you know that was caitlin that that was a that's what made you be like the well no it started with like you know the whole andy thing and so i read you know so and then it went there and then you know but uh but also you said to me what am i else am i going to do on a wednesday night just stay home or go out with

like an instagram model i never said i never said no see this is you misremembering things no i i have admitted that sometimes i go out with people that girls girl women children no god that i know like that they probably aren't going to be my person like why bother then because it's wednesday night you're in your older like your late 30s like stop who's this could be a 29 year old who like i just know they're not my person yeah but why like like why what's the effing point like why do it i'm bored but so addict yeah there's so many other things oh no no no no no i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm not even gonna give you that title because you don't even deserve that title because you're just that douchey guy what does that makes me douchey well whatever i'm fine with this but like if i'm someone who like

all my you know like i'm i'm aware like i make a lot of choices in terms of like i say no to a lot of things in terms of like you know that's not for me i like i'm past that but like if if i go out with someone also i do believe in you just never know, right? Like, I joke about it a lot. We're like, this is probably not my person. But like, you know what? Again, if it's a Wednesday night, I'm done with my work. My friends are doing whatever, like, or they have kids.

And some girl I think is attractive. I don't know much about her, wants to go have a drink. I'm a douche for saying yes, or I'm an addict? No, you said there's only two options, do nothing or go out with the girl. I don't know. On that particular night, when I say it's just another Wednesday night,

I literally mean like it's Wednesday. I'm like, there's not a lot going on. I get that. But if you really want to be serious about finding the one, then you should be a little bit more selective. Because remember your persona. People are watching you. People are, if they're going to continuously see you with Instagram models,

some good girl is not going to be. So you guys are just private then? I think we're really shitting on Instagram models. They're not real people. Guys, they're real too. They're just like us. Everyone, I mean, I'm not very public about my dating life no i understand that but you're still being out in the public that's what i'm saying so you're

still going out in public so your persona like you if you're really trying to find someone you should be people are just going to see you continuously with a different model or girl and so then that's what they're not going to think that and someone actually likes you that hasn't met you yet they're not going to think that if someone actually likes you, that hasn't met you yet, they're not going to think that you actually want to be committed because you're out, you know, flandering or whatever that word is. In reality, I go on dates with all sorts of different types of women. Married, single. That are all single to my knowledge.

Pregnant. And they are like, do I find them attractive? Sure. But I'm a big believer and you can be mature for your age sure but there's also life experiences that people are going to have in their early parts of their life that i think are important to have especially if you're not going to experience with someone who hasn't like there's something to be said about like two young people who who met and they love each other um and they might be ready to

settle down but they're going to experience life together but if if i were to say to date someone who's 23 fine you know it's not like it happens but there's going to be situations where uh she she experiences something or i might hinder her from experiencing something. I don't know what that is, but there's just so much growth in your early 20s that people, men and women both have, that if they try to cheat that and try to, if they're dating an older person who's done that, so they're kind of dismissive of a situation like, oh, well, I used to do that when I was young and they're kind of condescending and the younger person tries to,

I think that can affect that relationship. And I try not to do that. And when I've gone on dates with younger people and it kind of goes really well, that's a concern of mine. And sometimes I will, I've often, most of the time have walked away from that where it's just like, I really like,

if you were older, I would really want to see this, this will go. But I, again, I really want to have kids. I really do. And I know that, especially when it relates to dating anyone, say who's like 26 or younger, especially in this town, there's a good chance they won't want to. And it's just like, it's not fair for me to put that expectation on you. I know I want that. And in fact, when it comes to my dating life or do I want to get married in a conservative, like a Catholic church or whatever, those things have like, are all fluid. Do I need to, do I need to marry someone who's Catholic? No. You know, I didn't, I felt very differently when I was like 16, 17, 18 about that. Of course. But I've always wanted to be a father,

you know? And so at the point of my life, I really want to be a dad. And so it's, I don't want to put myself in a situation where it would just, it's not on the table. Yeah. Where if I date someone who's like, you know, 24, 25, it's realistic. They could be like, I don't want to have kids till I'm 30, Nick. And I'm like, that makes sense. But I don't want to have, you know, I want to, I want to be a dad. No, I mean, that's what I, when I met Mike, I, I said to him, I was like, Nick. And I'm like, that makes sense. But I don't wanna have, I wanna be a dad.

No, I mean, that's when I met Mike, I said to him, I was like, look, this is gonna be real forward, but I'm 31 years old. I want kids in the next two years. I wanna get married. And if you are not on that page, you're great. But I just, this is what I want. And I would have said next.

And he signed up. Why do we have to show an Instagram models? You know, I'm not, there's, you could be an, you could have, you're like your Instagram model.

I'm a mom. You're a good looking girl who posts pictures on Instagram with a following. Oh my God, guys. But I'm just saying, no, I mean, I will say like,

I get, I do get defensive. I take it back. I joke about my dating life and it's always like, Oh no, it's fine. You do like, Oh, you're going out with an instagram model it's just like what does that even mean uh i understand the cliche and i don't i i don't go i never go out with women that if i see them on

instagram and there's like half naked photos or me sometimes i'll go no i'm kidding um no i'm just saying if there's clearly just nothing there no like because you can have like instagram is a narcissistic thing it's vanity it's like doesn't have to be that doesn't have follow at kramer girl and you'll just see the real real it's still a lot of you i'm guessing no i if you obviously don't i do follow you it's all my family and our messy life if i have my last post is about my miscarriages. Yeah, but like. You know. It's still about you and your family.

Right. It's not. But it's not. But I'm not. I'm not. I think it's a great page. Thanks. I joke like on my Instagram.

Look at that. Family, family, family. I wish I had a girlfriend slash wife and a child. Don't look at my baby boy. I wish I had a girlfriend slash wife and a child. Don't look at my baby boy. I wish I had that. You know, I'm desperately painting with my shirt off. You have your shirt off all the time. You're like, why are you brushing your teeth without your shirt on?

Again, I hope people realize it's meant to be somewhat comical and like obviously that I'm making fun of it because like that's what people, my Instagram is not for me. It's for the people who, who are following. So it's like, but I guess that's what I'm saying is like, Oh, I did have that bra one, but that was for, I try not to, uh, whatever. I, uh, I, I try to be very open. I am, uh, I do hold myself to a standard when I'm dating. Does that mean I go on a date with someone that it's just like, yeah, chances are probably not gonna work out, but let's see where it goes.

The point of all this is when we were going back is that I don't, talking about whether I'm an addict or a love addict, I would often, I don't like to sleep around in a sense that I never, my whole life, and I think sort of it came from like a Catholic guilt thing is that I never looked, I would never go out and try to have sex. I would never.

Then I think you're good. But I would try to know if I could have sex. And that's a love addict. Isn't that just someone who has some vanity issues and maybe a little bit of an ego? And maybe a little, maybe you're on the spectrum of love addiction. You don't think most people are like that? No. I don't.

It's okay. No, well, I'm a love addict, borderline narcissist and a dick. Oh no. No, former. Former dick? Mm-hmm. You're nice, I like you. You're good.

You're good peeps. Here's the thing about me, Jana, is that I have layers. We all have layers. I say this, whether you want to take this as a positive thing or a negative thing, I'm generally the same person as I've always been.

I've grown and I've matured and I've learned about life, but my personality, it's the exact same as when I was 14. And that is, at first, I can come across as sometimes intimidating, abrasive, maybe douchey or aloof. Depends on how you want to classify it. And then once I open up and people get to know me,

they have a very different point of view. It's still the same guy. Do you wish you would have picked someone else on The Bachelor when it was your season? No. No. Who's the runner-up? Raven. No. Who was the runner up? Raven.

I don't know who she is. I don't know who she is. What about Rachel? I don't think my person was casted. Your person? I don't think, again, great group of women. I don't think the person, I don't think I screwed up. I don't think Vanessa was my person.

We gave it our absolute all, but I don't think I screwed up. I don't think Vanessa was my person. We gave it our absolute all, but I don't have any regrets and I don't think I should have picked someone else or I messed up there. I don't think my person was casted on my season. Why? I was just curious. Yeah.

It was just interesting. Did you love her at the final rose? I was obsessed, yeah. No i mean like when when it was live to you know when everyone knew and found out uh well we were struggling at that point it was yeah i mean did i still like i was very optimistic and hopeful i mean did i love her of course at that point but it was hard i mean that's no different you hear stories and like there's a lot of behind the scenes stories and i've i won't name names but like other leads and relationships you come out after the final rose and most people are like oh we're so in love this is great and then you like hear things about like right before we got on stage we were screaming at each other oh my god

like that's almost the norm can you tell me who no why afterwards i will because it's not for me to say and i don't you know like it's like assume everyone honestly like i haven't heard at that point it's such in fairness to the all those couples especially the winners yeah right because it's such the the time from getting engaged to the after the final rose it's a very challenging situation for the winners the winner being like they are first to get proposed to and then there's a download of like all the shit the lead did while dating and maybe there's sex and maybe there's not sex and then you have to re-watch those relationships back on tv meanwhile everyone else kind of like bonds and because you're the winner you kind of get separated and sometimes you separate yourself it's just a it's just a lot for the winner to

deal with and that creates an enormous amount of stress on the relationship some of those people handle it better than others yeah and and i think that's what like rachel was here and she talked about how great brian was there was a lot of things that sounds like Brian did in that period. That was great. I didn't have that benefit. And it was very challenging, but I think it's just a, it's a difficult situation. Yeah.

She's sweet. Are we taking callers? Yeah. Let's do it. You ready for it? Yeah. Do you want to hear our theme song for the call? I heard a little like.

I'm not yawning because I'm bored i'm yawning because i'm tired let's ask nick your sexy questions hi lauren how are you lauren i'm good how are you i'm j. This is Nick. Okay, so I really need your opinion and insight, I guess. So I come from a Jewish religious family and modern, but like religious. And I know like with your like Catholic religious fashion, what I've heard you talk talk about it's kind of similar in a lot of ways um but kind of one thing they're very conservative um so I have two older siblings and one is more like me and then the other one is like normal like my parents I would say in the past like three years I've gotten like less religious and doing my own

thing and I'm very comfortable now like where I am overall and I kind of like come my brother knows more um we're very close um but one thing because my parents are very conservative, I, like, tell no things and, like, my parents don't necessarily know things. So, growing up very conservatively, one thing in, like, growing up religious, like, kind of like

you've mentioned before, like, that's a big no. Like, before that. Sure, yeah. How old are you? Just real fast. What? How old are you just real fast what how old are you i'm 21 okay yeah um so but recently i'm like i've i'm like friends with a lot of guys mainly okay um and one of like i just seem like really close like recently i past year i have like one really close guy friend and we started hooking up and um he's had sex before um and he was really respectful never pressured me nothing um and then i told him i wanted to um i always thought i was gonna save it for marriage like i felt like i personally always wanted that. I also have like abandonment and trust issues in general.

So I think I kind of realized that it made me from that and not anymore from the religious reasons. So it sounds like, I mean, I'm trying to figure out what your question is. You're hanging out with this guy and you're debating whether you should lose your virginity to him. Sounds like you did. Yeah. Okay. You've had sex. Okay. What's your, what, so what's your question? So, yeah. So now like my question is like, I kind of, I mean, since writing to you guys, I've kind of like seen more, I guess like like just terms but I guess like my question really is like at first I felt like this guilt and like this shame and like again I wanted to do like

nothing like it's nothing to do about him nothing like it's more of like coming from like I guess this place of like growing up in a religious household. Sure. Um, they always having, I went to like, like religious schools, um, growing up. So I guess like,

I'm like, I'm in college now, like almost graduating. Like I just, like I'm living my life, but like, there's a part of me that's still like, still has that,

I guess. Totally. I think I have, I think that, I guess. Totally. I think I have, I think I have an answer for you. I'll give it my best shot. And again, I'm also going to relate to this, to my experience. It's like you're, you're 21. So you're not like super young, but you're young. Like you're not that far.

You're not that many years removed from like quite honestly, childhood or growing up in your parents' household. You're like three or four years removed from being in that house and going to church with your family and hearing the things that from your parents. I'm not here to say whether religion is a good or a bad thing. It's played a very positive role in my life in a lot of ways. And I still am proud that I grew up Catholic and it gave me a great moral compass. You know, I joke, we talked about Catholic guilt is a real thing. You might probably call it Jewish guilt or whatever, right? There's a lot of shame that comes with how those things

are taught to us as children. I think it's just at this point in your life, you're in early adulthood. I think it's important for you to continue to A, be thankful of how you were raised and probably, I'm assuming, the good moral values your parents gave you. But now that you're an adult, it is now up to you to find your own compass, right? And to decide for yourself what is right for you, what is wrong for you. And you have to make those decisions as a person. You have to maybe kind of reset. And, you know, when it comes to your religious faith and your role in the church, you have to decide what you want from it and like, you know, what you get out of it. And you have to be comfortable with that decision. And regardless of what your parents think and whether if they judge you for it or not, you have to be your own

person. And I'm assuming they will love you regardless. I'm guessing they love your older brother who is maybe is doing his own thing. And then you just have to find that place with God in terms of what you're comfortable with. But you can't live in guilt and shame and regret your whole life. And I can tell you from personal experience, it takes a few years to get to a place where you're comfortable with the decisions you make. So I guess my point is, take it easy on yourself. Try not to judge yourself as much as you probably are with your actions, because it's going to do you no good to do what you want to do. And then constantly question every decision you make for like three or four days and then constantly question every decision you you make

for like three or four days and feel guilty because someone told you you're in a burning hell when you were 14 for doing the things you're doing right now right you sound yeah yeah you made a good point like um i feel like there's so many values i still appreciate and like there's traditions or customs i still like like love, you know, and I'm sure like you feel the same way. And like a lot of people may, may not. So there's definitely positive things that I appreciate, but there is that like one thing that I just like, and I guess you're right. It's not going to happen overnight.

It's not going to happen overnight. You're so, you're not just, you're not that far removed from home. So just you start to grow as your own person and use the things that you were taught when you were younger is you know, you have a good moral compass. You were taught a lot of great things, you know, right and wrong. And some of the other stuff, you know, try not to, try not to shame yourself that much. I mean, live your life and then eventually God will judge us all and hopefully we make it, you know. See you in hell,

bitch. I love that. Right. I mean, listen, that's the truth though, is a lot of people, I will say when it comes to religion, a lot of people like to point fingers, you know, a lot of people like to tell you what you're doing right or wrong. And certainly your parents are trying to like, they were taught something and they're trying to be the best parents they can be by teaching you something. And I know the Bible says a lot of things, but we also don't know. And we'll all figure it out one day when we die and we'll find out, you know, if there's a God, if he is, will we right or will be wrong about some of the things we believed in? And then like, we'll figure it out. But until then be a good person, follow your heart and,

and try not to beat yourself up over living your life. Okay. I really appreciate it. It was really helpful. All right. Well, hopefully have a great weekend. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Bye-bye. Bye guys. Hi. How are you? Good. I'm Nick. I'm Jana. Nice to meet you. Hi. What's your name? Ireland. Ireland. Nice to meet you. Lovely name. Pretty hair. I thought that was a backstreet boys poster in the background. What is it? Is that that 70 show?

in the background? What is it? Is that that 70s show? Yes. Wow. Kenosha, Wisconsin. What is your question? So I've been hooking up with this guy just casually, but there are times where he finishes like really,

really quickly, like quickly enough to warrant a conversation afterward. And it's still obviously premature, but I don't know like what to say when it happens. You say sometimes, what do you mean by sometimes? Like, it's not like super frequent, but like enough where I want to know what to say when it happens. When you say frequent, are we talking like two pump chump or like, are we talking less than a minute?

Oh, okay. Um, yeah. Less than a minute. Oh man. Is there a foreplay going on? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, and so your question is how, what, cause you, are you, are you, are you talking about it? You haven't brought it up. He acknowledges it afterward. He said like last time, for example, he said, I can tell you seem not mad, just disappointed. I don't know how spoken like a true parent, you know, I think I, my first instinct is to laugh and I don't want to do that. I can feel insecure, but it's also like, I've had a lot of

sex issues in my relationship. And one of the best, like having conversations, honestly, the best thing you can do, but also for guys, some guys just have this problem. Some guys, um, we never think guys are in their head, but guys can be very sexually in their head about things. And sometimes, you know, women just think that every single time the guy's got to be hard and they're going to come and this is that, but sometimes guys can't. And because they have their own stuff going on because they can be in their head, but having the conversation where you don't point it at him in a negative way, because then he'll get really in his head. But just be like, hey, just so you know, like, I really enjoy this. But at the same time, I would like to feel good, too.

So I think having that communication where he wants to then take care of you, like his mission will be to take care of you and not. But don't like shame him or like that. Cause then that could really screw up down there. But going at it from a way, like I really like this. I just would love maybe if you could try to also please me as well. How old are you guys? I'm 21 and he's 22.

Okay. So you guys are, but it doesn't have to end after he comes. Well, that's what I was going to say. Like if, if, uh, I think kind of,'s what janna was alluding to is listen he's young he's excited he probably thinks you're pretty hot these are you know these are none of nothing that's happening

is necessarily bad it could be worse yeah it could not even come up well i've had that issue you know so you're doing something right that's's working for him. So that's great. But yeah. Like, so when he is done, is it, it just over? He doesn't think, well, Hey, good for me, but what do you want? No, it's the end after that. And to me, that's very selfish. And I don't like, I've always hated that with guys and that's, it's just been, and I mean, honestly, even just my husband, sometimes I'm like, Hey, like I also need to be taken care of too. And sometimes it feels very selfish when you don't at least try. Cause sometimes I don't want to, but some, if you don't even try to make sure that I'm okay, like that bothers me and makes me feel like you don't respect me or you don't

care about me or you don't care about like how I feel. Um, I, I totally agree. I mean, again, I've, I've gotten older and, and, but I, I know, again, I've, I feel like I've always, from what I can remember, been this way. It's like, ideally, if I'm hooking up with someone, I would prefer that she came first. you guys are open enough to talk about it. It's like, I want you to come because the idea is once I like with when, when men come, it's like, you're done. They're done.

Like, it's not as like, it's not as hard as not as whatever. It's like, they're done. They're there. Yeah. They literally,

they're done. Right. Yeah. I got guys that aren't done though. But see, for me, I'm done. I,

I, for me sexually, I'm like, oh gross. Like you've already done it. Like I'm not as interested anymore. But part of it, part of it is, I think there's a, there, well, I'm done. For me, sexually, I'm like, ugh, gross. Like, you've already done it. Like, I'm not as interested anymore. But part of it is, I think there's a, well, I guess there's kind of that stereotype.

So like, like, physio, physio, physio, fuck. Physiologically. Yeah, our bodies, man, like, there are, like, we are actual done. It doesn't mean we're like, but we're not. Your mouth still works. Exactly, we're not useless. I'm saying, like, the are actual done. It doesn't mean we're like, but we're not, we're not useless. I'm saying like the erection goes down and if you're young enough, it'll like give them three minutes. It'll come back up. Or sorry to just put, or really fast. Another thing you can do is if for

some reason, like he physically has an issue. Cause some guys do have him help you with either to again, do stuff afterwards or grab your fricking rabbit and do it with him, you know? Yeah. And again, my guess is he's probably nothing wrong with him. He's probably just a 22 year old kid who, who thinks that when he's done that you're done. Right. And I, I think he, you need to kind of coach him up and raise your expectations. I think it's right. You don't chastise him. Don't make him feel like he's doing something wrong.

But say, that's great. I'm glad. I'm ready for mine. But say it in a way where it's respectable and be like, I love this. I just would also love to feel good too. You know what you say? You just say, you know what would really turned me on if you do this for me. And I think if you say that to a guy and you tell him what would turn you on, that should get him excited. He should want to turn you on. I have a question though. Does he

even ever make her come? Have you ever had an orgasm with him? Uh, not during sex. I knew it. Not so, okay. He, not during sex. Have you had an orgasm with him? Not during sex. I knew it. Not so. Okay. She not during sex. Have you had an orgasm with them outside of sex? Yeah. So great. This is,

well, again, is it true? You guys are women that some women can, and some women can't usually. You, you, I mean,

they're not doing it right. Okay. But like some, but I'm saying, you can at least do the orgas not doing it right. Okay. But like some, but I'm saying, you can at least do the orgasm or the friction. Is it, but I'm saying for some women, is it easier to convert versus sex than not?

I just, this is what I, I don't, you have to be in certain, uh, I'm talking about just in general. Right. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I don't, I mean, well, you have to be in a certain position for me personally. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't, I mean, well, you have to be in a certain position for me personally. Yeah. Right. Right. There's preferences. And it sounds like this guy might be too, too quick to even give our, our, our lovely friend, lovely friend, a chance. But the good

news is it sounds like he can without sex. So like the solution, the problem is to like just make him do what he's doing. And if he's so fast, make sure he does his thing for you before you even start having sex. Yeah. Also, what do you mean no? Don't have her come before sex. Not before sex? No, because she wants to have, like you want to have

that orgasm during sex. It's taking him a minute. I know, but you know, just maybe try doing it more frequently so he won't come as fast. Should you tell him to masturbate before? Maybe. That could be something. You know, he could do that.

Like maybe like masturbate like an hour before. Hey, I'm coming over, buddy. Rub one out. I don't know. Listen, I think... He's not your lobster. Just have fun.

But I think what's the biggest takeaway of this call is that you guys have empathy and have a good conversation. Yes. It communicate. You guys are on the same page and for, so that you guys get both meet your needs, have your expectations of what you deserve, but articulate in a way that doesn't belittle him. Yes. Amen. Nice to talk to you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Go have some fun get yours take care all right bye-bye yeah like i mean in terms of like sex like you yeah um you just have to have a conversation but it's you have to do it in a way because i've done it very wrong sometimes where i said you are so

selfish and saying that then just makes the guy very angry i think it's fair for a woman to call a guy selfish if they have me i finish yes i know i talk a lot and i knew interrupt but like you you uh we would never finish a conversation we wouldn't nope uh no but i'm saying i do think it's fair if a guy if you have sex and a guy finishes and comes and he is, does an offer or let's say he does an offer. Maybe he's, that's inconsiderate, but he's selfish. If she asks and he's like, yeah, I'm done. Then he's selfish. He, cause any guy, even after they come can still go down on your girl, can touch her, can do whatever she asks him to do. And maybe even like in a few minutes, he'll be back in action.

I'm just saying if he's unwilling to try and put the effort in, that is selfish. Yes. But you can still deliver it in a healthier way instead of being passive with it. Sure. Yeah. What? Fine. Because I've done it better where I'm like, you're so selfish.

And then the other night I was like, you know, it just feels very selfish to me when this happens and that is yes i mean i don't think it's ever positive to yell at someone and say you're selfish but i'm just saying i do think it's selfish uh i think it sounds like guys women should definitely expect it of guys and the stereotype that if a guy is done he's done is true but not necessarily true in the sense that the intimacy doesn't have to be done yeah i think yeah and there's other ways of of being intimate than having sex dude i mean sometimes you know just that the rabbit's better not you know saying sex isn't better but just like it's just it's easy i get that and i also you know when you're tired're young, but I think ideally if you're in a relationship,

you guys should talk about what you both like and what works out so that you get on the same page. So you can be like, same time, same time, same time. Same time would be a baby. Not necessarily. If it's same time, how could you be same time? There's condoms. There's birth control.

There's. Yeah, that's true. Listen, you have the luxury of being married. We still don't. He's even snipped. But he hasn't done it enough to make him sterile yet. Okay, I don't. I'm not following this at all.

It's okay. Next time you come on on we'll talk about that well janna thanks for coming on so you're moving this is it this is it this is probably our last unless you're going to like any i heart radio stuff i probably will never see you again i hope to see you again i hope to see you too i hope you come to nashville well you can be our guest in nash. Where are you doing your podcast in Nashville? From our house and then the iHeart studio. They have an iHeart studio now.

They do. Bobby Bones has records there. Oh, cool. Yeah. So we'll use his studio and then we'll record from home. Well, good luck with your move. Thank you. Say hi to Mike for me.

I will. He's driving cross country right now. So I'm home alone with the baby. It's going to be super fun. Where's he going? He's driving his truck to nashville yeah i know so it's uh gonna be cray cray when i get back well thank you for being so open and honest um i'm always uh i love it when people do that it gets conversations going and so whether you agree with us or disagree with us, at least we're talking about it. Exactly. Good to talk to you.

Until next time, we open another file. See you next week.