The Viall Files - E284 The Bachelorette Recap With Dave Holmes

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Today we are recapping The Bachelorette with the one and only Dave Holmes. Nick and Dave break it all down from Thomas’s exit, the mob mentality on the show, Andrew S’s comments, and the return of Blake!  We even take a look at some of the guys instagrams to see who is promoting their time on the show and perhaps is being a little contradictory from what they are saying on the show. Who do they really think was “ostrasicized” and “de-monsterized”? It’s a recap you will not want to miss ahead of our interview with Katie herself tomorrow.  “Justice for Thomas” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Credit Karma Money: http://www.creditkarma.com/winmoney to sign up for free and start winning Instant Karma   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @daveholmes See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to a very special bachelorette recap of the vile files i'm your host nick and we have the team ali amanda Amanda, and Chrissy with us, and a very fan favorite Bachelorette recapper, Dave Holmes. Thank you for having me. It's so nice to have you back. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. I'm feeling good. You're feeling good? You have notes? I have notes. We're excited about that. Uh-huh.

Yeah, I mean, a lot to get into. We have so much to get into. Before we do, just a quick reminder, we do have the one and only Bachelorette Katie with us. What? Yeah. When? Tomorrow.

Well, Wednesday. I don't know if you're listening to this on Monday or Tuesday. She will be here tonight. So we're going to interview her tonight. It'll come out Wednesday morning, first thing. Am I going to meet Katie? Like on the way out? No, she won't be here until tonight.

But you're welcome to come back if you want to. Maybe I'll come back. Send me your audience. I am vaccinated. Doubly vaccinated. And I think we'll discuss some... I have some specific questions I want to ask Katie. Okay.

All right. So let's just get into it, shall we? Absolutely. I'm ready. I have a lot to say. But let's just always start with quick thoughts on this season. Katie is the Bachelorette. How are you feeling?

I mean, you know, last night had me feeling a way that is kind of my watchword for this episode, which is vulnerable. Which is what? Vulnerable. Vulnerable. Everybody says that word in the same way, and it's vulnerable. Vulnerable's he's being really open and vulnerable i'm feeling really emotionally vulnerable i'm sure i've said

vulnerable as someone who mumbles when he gets nervous no but i mean you just said vulnerable everybody on this season says vulnerable it's the weirdest goddamn thing vulnerable vulnerable listen i'm telling you anyway it had me feeling very vulnerable. And I feel, I almost feel bad for our boy Thomas. I, get ready because I will be defending Thomas this entire recap. Even though his reputation was demonsterized? Yes. Which he didn't say, by the way.

What? Thomas did not say that. There was a lot of putting words in Thomas's mouth, but I saw his mouth do it. Well, what did, oh, I'm sorry. You're right. Maybe he said that. He said that. Katie said he was ostracized.

Ostracized. He said demonsterized. Which is, is that a word? Well, it is now. It is now. Language is fluid. He has created a word. It's a word now.

We got to live with it. I am not one to talk. But yeah, there was a lot of putting words in Thomas's mouth this episode. And for a lot of accusations that were coming towards Thomas's direction about him being a liar and manipulative, there was a lot of lying and manipulation going on by the house. That's the only lying and manipulation I saw this episode. Thank you. It was from all the guys in the house and potentially even, dare I say, Caitlin and Tasha.

Now, they may be simply just doing their job. But Katie was getting gassed up the whole episode. She sure was. On how shitty thomas is which is interesting because i am not saying and i'm not backtracking from what i said last week i met thomas uh-huh my my impression of thomas amongst the other nine guys i met was thomas sounds like he's full of shit yeah thomas talks a lot uh i don't know if I'd necessarily buy Thomas's sincerity. Very defensive right off the bat.

So I thought that, right? Now, I don't know Thomas. I met him for a couple hours, and he might be a little full of shit, but it doesn't necessarily make him all these other things. Especially in this world of expectations of falling in love. Also, yeah, consider where you are. You're on a TV show, right? You have been selected to be on a TV show. That means that you are kind of silver-tongued in a way. You know what I mean? You are kind of good at this sort of thing.

There's no way that he's the only one of these guys who was like, I wonder what would happen after for me if she doesn't pick me. You're thinking about being a bachelor. You're thinking about going on Paradise, right? 100%. It's in the back of your mind. I remember when I was the bachelor

that every time I'd send a girl home, they would immediately text a producer about Paradise. Really? Immediately. Within like less than a day yeah that makes sense and fine that makes complete sense fine it didn't work out for you here yeah you should want to go on paradise it's a great time but the way that they talk about thomas

immediately in this episode made me wonder whether there was an episode that i missed they over yeah when i talked to katie tonight i i have two questions for katie because when you are the the lead when you watch the episodes back a good chunk of what you see you are seeing for the first time yeah 20 30 of it so i wonder if either katie a will watch it back and wish she would have played things differently, knowing that these guys gassed her up a little bit? Or are there things that happened with Thomas that we didn't get to see? Right.

Did Thomas, you know, like, take a bat to someone's kneecap while they were sleeping or steal someone's money or plant, like, drugs in one of their bags and try to get them... Like, did he do some really evil shit that they just didn't air didn't seem like it didn't seem like it just seemed like he was a little full of himself and then honest when he was asked if he yeah so the episode opens

up with thomas jogging and these guys are all talking shit and then feeling his light knowing his angles running slowly making sure they have lots of footage. Thomas' biggest crime, I think, is being good looking. Yeah. Handsome guy. And he does talk a lot. So he's talking to Courtney, who's lifting weights. I know

a lot of bullshitters. I know a lot. A lot of them have been on The Bachelor. And I've never heard any of those people that I think of as bullshitters own that they often talk like politicians. Yes. And admit that they can do that sometimes. Right. And yet we heard Thomas pretty quickly be like, yeah, I fucking do that sometimes.

And don't we all sometimes have bad habit? Like I sometimes when I get excited, will wait to speak rather than listen. My whole life, it's a bad habit I have. I try to work on it. When I get called out for it, I get really insecure and sometimes defensive, but I know I'm fucking guilty of it.

And I'll be like, yeah, I fucking did that. Yeah. And when Thomas like owned up to that, to me it was like, it's almost like he's like, yeah, I fucking did it again. I got, I started, why do I fucking do that? Nervous energy maybe, I don't know. But I don't know a lot of people who own up to those things. And to me that was another like, okay, there's Thomas.

There's some honesty there. Did you? I wasn't listening to anything you said. I found, no, I'm kidding. Yeah, I mean, he just admitted what everybody else is doing, but hypnotizing themselves into thinking it's normal. You know what I mean? Which is talking in bites that are going to sound good and look good on TV.

Yeah, he just handled on TV. Yeah. He just handled it honestly. Yes. I think that's it. And I think Thomas, throughout the whole episode, even when he was talking to Katie, he was still guilty of saying things that I don't think they had a lot of credibility. Right. Like, where is this connection you so believe in thomas when it comes to your connection with katie now when yeah when it came to his visit to her hotel room then

things got a little dicey then he was really like just talking flowery language that meant nothing and then the the apology to her and the rest of the guys during the rose ceremony was very insincere but oh you thought that was insincere i do yeah it didn't it's it was too it was too many words to say too little but i found myself at that point especially at the end of the episode just being like this i i do know what it's like to feel ostracized by the house when thomas goes to katie and says i don't have a lot of friends in this house that's not thomas trying to manipulate katie that's a very vulnerable thing to admit. It's vulnerable. And that it's vulnerable. Yeah. And that environment, like you don't want to, like you see everyone brewing out and best

friends, but you guys fucking hate me. And you're just like, I mean, I, you asked me a question and I gave a very honest response. Right. I might be guilty for that thing I thought, no doubt. But yet, the reaction from the house was as if it was absurd that any of them ever thought. Thought, not thought. The crime is thinking that you could be the bachelor this is and apparently it's none of the guys thought it yeah it's insane it's it's truly the way that they all like um the way that they all encouraged each other against him made the whole thing go out of control.

Out of control. It is like a PTA meeting about critical race theory right now. Like it's just suddenly everybody's mad about this thing that they don't know what it is, but they're encouraging each other. And it's just like it just snowballs. It gets completely out of control. No one's really taking the time to figure it out. No. Either side.

And everyone's just listening. They saw something on the internet. Right. They're running with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah so yeah so thomas owns up to this yeah we're not mad at thomas yeah and he'll show up in paradise can we agree oh yes i mean and not the bachelor there's no way no redemption story i think is a bruin for thomas okay it usually plays out that way and after saying again i i i say this having met thomas and thinking he was full of shit yeah and and and had a way of kind of just not not really thinking about his sincerity of his words but just to point out how sorry how no no, no, no, no, go. Please never apologize. Please go.

I had Allie do some research. Okay. And Allie, if you could find your findings, I asked Allie to kind of peruse the men's Instagrams. I see. And I asked how many posts that they posted specific about the bachelor. This is not even just selfies or glam shots but specific to their time on the show promoting oh my goodness their appearance we've done and i think the the

results are quite um maybe surprising demonstraising yeah yeah demonstraising ali if you could just let us know what we we found out about the the men's social media activity as it relates to promoting their appearance on the show yeah so i have their posts since they got on the show, including everything like personal or Bachelor related. And some people have been really, really quiet and some people have just blown up. Like I thought it was interesting that James, the box guy, is like very good looking.

I would have thought that he'd be really on social media. And he has posts from like 20 plus weeks ago one from like eight weeks ago and then yesterday two posts about bachelor like okay so now he's trying to like pick up speed so yeah what does this tell us yeah i don't i mean first of all i don't have a problem with any of this i'm just pointing out that it's all happening yeah um connor b has been blowing up instagram like every week he has a new promo he has screenshots like he has like he's my fave he has images that i feel like getty images should pay him for like he's on it he's ready to go he might he might have an intern

like maybe i don't know should it be me i don't know he's a spin teacher too right he's not that i haven't i've been on a teacher a spin class yeah because right? He's everywhere. Not that I haven't. I've been on his. He's like a teacher, a spin class. Yeah, because I saw someone on TikTok went to his spin class. Oh, boy. And apparently it was really hard. Like, what does he not do? I'm confused. What?

Okay. The dude's got time on his hands. Greg has been really quiet. He did a screenshot from night one, and then he did a tribute for Father's Day, but that was it. Okay. Courtney, whoa, posted a lot. He's really going for it.

14 posts. Yeah. About the bachelors. Not just about the bachelors, just in lot. He's really going for it. 14 posts. Yeah. About the Bachelors. Not just about the Bachelor, just in general. For that nutrition entrepreneur. Yeah. That nutrition entrepreneur is trying to start a business. What I thought was interesting is I feel like Hunter is trying to be the next Nick Vial

because he's posting all this life advice. He's using the same caption app that we use on TikTok. What? He is like trying to coach up his followers. He is. I've never seen anyone more destined for paradise than Hunter. Yeah's just he's got it written all over him doesn't he well i mean i'm sure he'll try i don't know if he'll be he'll get there they have a lot of competition i'm sure yeah but he's yeah i mean again he's made for it obviously with our arsenic stuff

you know sometimes on my tiktok it's a little like, you know, I just self help a little bit, but like, I didn't start doing that until like a year and a half after I was the bachelor. Hunter's three weeks in, you've carved a path. He's already letting people know,

Hey, just so you know, I have some insightful things to say, which again is fine, but there's a little bit of brand marketing going on there for Hunter. Is it not? So yeah, all these guys are posting. They also, as I've said, short of them not having social media,

then they are all aware and they've all thought about how many followers they might get out of it or could. How many followers does, let's say, a Connor have now? I don't know. And their follower count isn't necessarily relevant. Hey, when it comes to money, you only want to work with people you trust. Can I get anyone to disagree with me? No, I can't because I'm right.

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and terms apply see rules banking services provided by mvb bank incorporated member fdic maximum balance and transfer limits apply michael to me go ahead con Connor B has 22.4 thousand. Okay. Respectable. Did we talk about what Thomas has on his Instagram? Oh, yeah. Thomas has almost nothing. Thomas has literally the least amount on social media out of all the guys.

Interesting. Okay. That means something. I don't know what, but it means something. Right? Maybe it could mean that he knows what he's going to be accused of. He has five posts total and 4,000 followers. Like, it's almost like a weird, like, I thought it was a fan account at first.

I was like, this can't be real. Yeah, because, like, he is objectively an attractive person, and he definitely had a lot of fans early on. You'd think they would follow a guy they would find traditionally handsome. How did you find his Instagram account? Like, is it on his page on ABC comm so I pulled up an article at the someone wrote an article at the beginning of the season it was like here's how you can follow Katie's contestants and then I went to like their profiles but yeah his always struck me as weird because I was

like is this even you it's so small strange but but also it's not he's not building a brand he doesn't seem like he's not capitalizing on his time on the bachelorette he needs an advisor he needs an intern oh yeah social media intern you know i was natalie and i were watching it last night and and natalie when when michael towards the end of the episode was was talking to Katie. And Natalie just pointed out just how awkward Michael is. And not necessarily as a criticism, but, and he does, he looks awkward. He touches his face a lot.

And I'm just like, been there. I looked really awkward often, both with Andy and Kaylee, even the touching the face. And I don't remember you that way. And I don't even mean that as a bad thing. What I like, you know, whether both times I had genuine, like I really liked Andy.

I really liked Caitlin, you know, different situations, but I did. When Blake was on Becca season, I could see Blake really liked Becca. I could see it. And I see a lot of guys, you know the leads yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna have a good time yeah i feel a connection

sure i like you you like me back but like there are once in a while you see people who are like they're like they're holy shit they're falling in love and they are as shocked as anyone and when i see michael he's the only one where I see this authentic, like, I can't believe I'm here. You know, like I went through all this stuff in my personal life. I can imagine Michael in his head being like, I can't believe I'm here.

I can't believe she likes me. I can't believe I like her. This all feels kismet. Is it like I can feel and see this like overwhelming amount of stimulation and sensation. And that's where I see this awkwardness. And he's the only one where everything that comes out of his mouth, I think, is 100% sincere. And I don't criticize anyone else for that because it's a crazy world.

And like Greg, I think he likes Katie. I really do. And I think Greg is doing a great job. But I think Greg isn't like, I think Greg's so far very much in control of his emotions and feelings. Okay. Where I don't think Michael is at this point. Yeah. And one of them, there's controversy with one of them later in the season, right?

I don't know. There was sort of like a super cut for the rest of the season. Super cut, yeah. And I was wondering which one of them it was. And I kind of almost felt like it was Michael just because you can kind of see him. And you've described this a little bit. And Rachel's piece in Vulture last week describes this a little bit of the thing of like you're in the mansion or whatever. And you're a little bit sleep deprived and you're drinking a lot and things are weird. And so you do start to develop feelings for people that are sort of genuine, but also

sort of the tactics that cults use to get started. You're stuck in a world with no distractions and a goal. Right. So I think Michael is beginning to have those feelings, but might in a couple of weeks realize like, oh, I have a child. You know what I mean? Like he might like splash some water on his face and be like, oh, this is,

I'm like, there's a kid here. And I should maybe pull out. But right now we see Michael completely, he's like blacked out, you know, like he's blacked out with his feelings and i and i see it it's endearing it's great yeah i like him because you don't see it that often and i'm and that's again not a criticism to anyone else but it is still early and that's again that's where thomas does make the mistake is that thomas is trying to talk like michael thomas is trying to

come across like michael right and those feelings just can't be there. They're not there. He hasn't had enough time with Katie for them to be there. And that's where Thomas gets himself in trouble. You know what? You bring up a good point. Thomas is 28, right? So, and this show's been on for 20 years, right?

So essentially Thomas has never known a life without it. Right? And it's almost like after season six or seven of The Real World, it like, you know, the first season of The Real World, which is on Paramount+, go watch it. It's amazing. It feels like a Ken Burns documentary. Like it's slow paced.

You should go back and watch it. You really should. It's great. And it's like, it is so the first of its kind that like in interviews nobody knows what they're supposed to be looking at like it's awkward they don't they don't go in expecting to play a character you know or or expecting to like milk a dramatic moment or anything like that um so you know from the second season on people kind of had a sense for what it was but from the sixth or seventh it started to attract people who had been raised on it.

Yes. And started talking like people who were on the real world, just in real life. Yes. And then a heightened version of that. And then it just got, it spun out and got crazier. Yeah. And then people just were fucking in a hot tub episode one, right? So this is like Thomas, I think, has been raised on people who were talking about, you know, whether they're here for the right reasons.

And you see it every season now. But you're right. It's a perfect example is that it's just how the show has evolved. Yeah. And it just is what it is. And I guess it's the job of the producers to decide if they want to break a fourth wall or lean into, like, the fact that these people, you know people have been raised on it and through no fault of their own, just by default come in with this built-in inauthenticity. Right. Yeah, that's a word.

Because they can't help themselves. Right. Because they're human. Because you just know kind of how it works. because they just you just know kind of how it works and it's really hard to be that self-aware in this insane world where you have no support system no attachment to the outside world and truly and stayed true to yourself and yeah this is gonna be an explosive men tell all yeah can we agree it will be yeah can't wait. The Thomas segment.

So we then get into the group date. Yes. Which is about, you know, if last week's, you know, date with me was a little different and a more heavy. I enjoyed that, by the way. Oh, thanks. Great job. Great job. Got them all very vulnerable.

Vulnerable. Got them all vulnerable. They lightened it up, which I like. You know, if you're going to get heavy, you got to get light, right? And not everything can be so heavy and intimate. But it was one of those classic obstacle course. Obviously, a different version of it. Truth or dare obstacle course.

Katie spends literally no time with any of them. She just watches the guys bro out. You know, when you wonder why these guys all fall in love with each other and make friendships because they spend all this time with each other and have like these fun kind of goofy things you know regardless of what age they are early 20s mid 20s early 30s mid whatever it's a very high school college experience you go back to those kind of bonding moments you have with your friends that maybe some of them like quite honestly haven't had in a while because they're just older and it really connects you with your cast of people when do you have an

opportunity to take off work and do a truth or dare obstacle course with a bunch of strangers you don't it's rare it's a rare opportunity um the i think it was mike it was our gym owner yes uh had to eat yeah our gym owner from uh yeah and mike reveals that he hasn't had a carb in seven years i know he's a virgin and i'm just a virgin i didn't know that did you not watch that how did that get past me what are you talking about get past you did you not watch last week's i did but he cried about like he told i guess i missed that oh you missed it was oh it was it was for me the the best explanation of why you're a virgin uh-huh and it was just like hey listen i just whether i agree or disagree yeah he was just like i just think it's something I want to give to my wife

whenever it is. And it was like this, you know, I was like, all right, well, I don't, I wouldn't do that.

But like, I buy that. Like, it seems like he had a clear understanding of why he was choosing it. And that's, I liked that he seemed

to have an understanding. A lot of times it's people like, I don't know, I just, just one of those things that just happened and then I just didn't. But he's not having sex and he's not eating carbs and i'm just

wondering what are you what what are you doing that gets you like you need some sort of release man because like burpees have some bread he's you know like it's really good sometimes yeah and i'm just worried i'm worried for him that he might need an outlet he could blow at some point yeah he's doing a really nice guy he's doing those weird crossfit pull-ups yeah he's just he's only being a gym owner um but he does focused man very focused very focused man um it's an obscene amount of carbohydrates like an unhealthy amount of carbohydrates for one sitting i hope he didn't actually have to eat that entire tray i'm guessing he didn't finish yeah i'm guessing he didn't finish too but, I'm guessing he didn't finish too.

But he did say, hey, if I get fat, she better still love me when I'm older. What does that mean? It was a weird thing to say. If I get fat, she better still love me. Period. Or she better still love me when I'm older. Period. Those two things together don't quite go.

If I were, I'm not a therapist. If Michael were to call me up and be like hey this is my story I would be like hey just be careful you're not building these unobtainable expectations for your future partner for all the things you're giving up for them now yes because that lot you know that line of she better this because I'm doing this now is my guess. If I were to be a fly on the wall of his future relationship, he might struggle with some built-in expectations he's had because he's done all this sacrificing for his partner who he hasn't even met yet. Yeah, for an illusion. Yeah.

That's a tough one. That's a very tough one. The whispering into the ear challenge brought me great discomfort. I could not handle it. I just couldn't handle it. The naming of the states, I didn't see what that was about. But we liked Andrew S.'s. It was fun.

His British accent worked for me. He said, I wanted to treat it like I knew you in a bar. I don't know what that means. But, you know, Andrew said that? Andrew said that, bar. I don't know what that means, but you know, Andrew said that Andrew said that. Yeah. I don't know what that means, but I appreciated it.

I personally think that Andrew pitched a perfect game this episode. I think, I think you're right. He did everything right. I don't think I've ever seen a more complete performance. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

No, I, I agree. Yeah. Because again, you know, Allie is uh professional accent person who's really good at them so she's a hyper critical of any accents but like i thought it

was fun he didn't take it too seriously he was laughing he was goofing around and and he made good points about thomas right he excellent points great points about thomas excellent points deal out of it yeah we'll get into that in a second. And also, Greg, I liked Greg that Greg didn't do a good job. When I see these things, I think to myself, how would I do in this situation? I could see myself doing well. I could see myself doing terrible.

And it's a very awkward, vulnerable thing. I liked how Greg, while it was really weird and awkward i don't think greg really was like this is this is gonna work with someone you know it's just you gotta fill the time you just gotta do it i don't know what to say i'm gonna talk about it was dumb and weird but like here i had no problem with it and he had some fun with it was he seemed like a good sport was there truth at any point in this game of truth or dare? I don't believe that. Yeah.

It was just dare. What? The evening was the truth portion. Oh. Were there any quest turns? So they broke it up. It was all the dare. I was wondering, because when Michael was eating the Twinkies, I'm like, does he have an opt-out?

Yeah. Can he talk about how many bases he has been to maybe you know like that is how that game works right so it was dares and then true talk at night and say true things but there were no cool like questions no questions are a big part of truth but we but before we get into the night portion katie does tell the guys let's uh be truthful tonight which plants the seed yeah uh for uh trey for trey who needs to stop drinking energy drinks oh yeah yeah immediately this guy he's a he's always 100 that's he's constantly going do they give you energy drinks on the side i think if you request them they would definitely get them for you for sure yeah um god and so yeah trey trey's you know he's the he's this season's kind

of go-to chirper he'll who i always i find it fascinating speaking to your point of the show being on for so long yeah every season they're able to find a guy or a girl if it's the bachelor who is willing to be an absolute just narc and yes and and i mean it worked for katie and it's not and again like this is not like a i'm sure the producers love it don't get me wrong but you know there's a lot of guys like and like i'm sure the producers went to Andrew and said, so what do you think of this Thomas stuff? And Andrew was like, I don't know, not my fucking problem. And they were like, okay.

Courtney, obviously. And they asked the other guys. And Trey was just like, oh, yeah. And again, if Trey went to a producer and said, do you think I should say something? I don't think they told him no. Sure. They still are able to find these guys who want to do this. And I don't get it. I don't think they told them no. Sure. But they still are able to find these guys who want to do this. And I don't get it.

I don't understand. Might they low-key sort of wind them up a little bit to do that? I'm sure they do, but I didn't. They will maximize whatever you want. If you have a thought, they will make sure that you express yourself. But the thought is originated from that person. I see. You know what I'm saying?

Okay. It's still their choice right and i find it fascinating that these like every season they're able to find at least one and sometimes two guys who are just like yeah do you want me to narc do you want me to i will yeah i'll throw anyone under the bus yeah i'm down hey i'm having a really good time with you by the way this person sucks like immediately disqualifying them but literally everybody is down on thomas except for andrew s to the point of actually i think calling him evil no it's absurd evil and again how thomas i mean andrew s says i believe in katie she will figure this out and i loved how he delivered it because it came from such a place of sincerity. And he was just like pleading with these guys, guys, do we, let me ask you a simple question. Do we think Katie's smart?

Do we think that she's an intelligent, capable woman? Do you think she's capable of answering, asking questions and then listening and then figuring out for her themselves? And while she might not see everything, do we think that she's capable of like, should we we should she make her own decisions or should we tell her i actually kind of patronizing to be like yeah you don't know how full of shit and i love that mike uh andrew said that because mike i you know mike was the one that all the guys were just like yeah we should say something and mike goes yeah we we narked on carl Look how happy she is now, like patting himself on the back.

And I was just like, ugh. Yeah, it's gross. It was kind of gross. It's real gross. One of them speaks of something being the straw that broke the camelback, which I enjoyed. I didn't write down who said it. But like a camelback is like a backpack that you wear that's full of water

for long hikes. Not a camel's back? Not a camel's back, but it's the straw that broke the camelback is like a backpack that you wear that's full of water for long hikes. Not a camel's back? Not a camel's back, but it's the straw that broke the camelback. It's hard for me to be critical because I know I've done so much of that stuff. Believe me, so have I. But that's when I go, click, click, and start taking notes. But yeah, so I just, I can't say enough about how well Andrew did. Andrew has the personality that I wish I had.

Oh, now why do you say that? You have a lovely personality. I'm fine with my personality and I love myself and I have strengths and weaknesses. But Andrew seems, I just, if Andrew ended up being like this horrible person, I would bet everything I have that this is who he is. It's not an edit. There's a quiet confidence that he has. He knows how to have fun. He embraces the moment.

He seems like he's a pretty present guy. He's an international pro football player. He has all these reasons to have some and i'm sure he has his shortcomings and whatever they are but i mean i was just so impressed but how and then again he i he faced everyone was again every single person was against him right and we've talked so much about this world is a mob mentality it is high school like villains are created not so much about like what people say or do or producers they edit it's often created by like whatever the house thinks whatever whatever the house it takes a little bit of spark and if the house kind of like

it's a flock of geese that kind of just flies in a certain direction and there's your villain and it doesn't really need to be justified right it just there needs to be like just some sparks yeah you know a little bit of fuel yeah and and and andrew is like and it's so easy and every season you see the mob just kind of go in that direction andrew's is like no yeah hey he's he's great he's one to watch and and to your point i wonder whether the mob won't next come for aaron aaron seems like he's talking a lot of shit you know what i mean oh he was kind of the ringleader and yet he didn't really say anything to anyone except well guys right what's most likely going to happen is that a big part of the mob will just by default go for blake Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so this is an experience you have lived.

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I'm watching this episode in this season, and I'm quite liking this season. I think Katie's doing an overall excellent job. I like that she doesn't have us guess what she thinks, whether I agree with everything she says or does. I just like that she is open and honest,

and she is focused on controlling her story. I think it is fantastic. There are so many similarities to the point where I wonder if there's a playbook about Caitlin Bristow's season. Yeah. And one that I am familiar with. Uh-huh.

And this particular season, the beats are, if you go back and watch Caitlin's season and you watch this season, it's almost too similar. Interesting. Interesting. So how was, I mean, I watched your experience, but how psychologically was your experience walking into that house?

Difficult. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Challenging. But one I expected and one I knew. how psychologically was your experience walking into that house difficult yes okay yeah okay yeah challenging and but one i expected and one i knew it's interesting because like you know blake let's talk about blake for a second like i also taisha did a huge favor for blake yeah i mean what a nice thing taisha didn't have to say that. I don't know how much Tayshia really got to know Blake. I don't get for the life of me why the show does this. And that is this like, and they did it with Chris Harrison and they're doing it with Tayshia.

This idea that we, we can't just acknowledge that Blake had some conversation with at least one producer about coming on the show. And that's not, and that's how he ended it up as opposed to like, according to Tayshia, he reached out to Tayshia. We don't believe that.

I don't doubt that at some point maybe there was a conversation between Blake and Tayshia so that if asked that there wouldn't have to be a lie. Yeah. But that is not how he got on. That's not how it started. I do not get why the show insists on selling that narrative that no one fucking believes yeah it's silly it does make it seem like there is a family

you know and everyone's on a big group text or whatever you're all cousins yeah i get it again to your point where i get why 15 years ago they did that when reality tv you know what the behind the scenes wasn't as readily known but like we know yeah we know you know like even in this episode they you know five five five five years ago and certainly when the show started you never saw like behind the scenes of katie talking to producer and then they don't they did they didn't even acknowledge that producers existed you know they wanted it was just like these are just people we throw in a room and we're just like filming it like the Truman Show. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's fine that we know that now. Of course. People still love the show and it's great, but I don't get why they, they insist on that storyline of Blake called up Tayshia and was like, hey, listen, I know we had a thing, but like I want to, I love Katie. And yeah, I don't get it. They should respect the audience a little bit more than that.

And also, it doesn't diminish my enjoyment of what is happening. Like thinking that he called a producer or whatever. No. Who cares? Of course, yes.

It's all part of the machine. Yes. Right? It's fine. Yeah. It's totally fine. Watching it back and watching Katie's reaction. Yeah. It's totally fine. Watching it back and watching Katie's reaction.

Yeah. When I talked to Katie, she had mentioned that, and she even said there were some DMs passed. Right. Okay. And I have for fun, no problem. Now, when I went on, showed up for Caitlin's season, I was obviously asked and what I told the guys and what I told America was we definitely talked a bit, but I wanted to protect Caitlin.

Yeah. I wanted to protect myself, I guess, to a certain extent. And I 100% downplayed just how much we talked and just how intense our little love affair was. Yeah. was yeah and watching katie's reaction to tasia showing up and her reaction to blake i'm just like these motherfuckers talked probably as much as caitlin and i talked i i you know katie got nervous i want to ask katie did she think it was blake when tasia mentioned someone's here i want to ask her did she hope it was blake because she started crying. And now maybe Katie could have been like, well, I'm just emotional. I don't doubt that she's tired, emotional.

It's a difficult position to be in. I'm sure she's aware. Katie's a fan of the show. She's been watching it for years. She knows that whoever this person is, if she decides to keep them, she's going to have to face difficult questions with the guys. She's going to have a bit of a target on her back. So I can appreciate why that's emotional.

Yeah. But if she truly doesn't know who this is, what if it's Yosef? From Claire season. Okay. The terrible person who, remember? Sort of. Who kind of just. Sort of.

What if it's Luke Parker? Show me Yosef. Show me Yosef. The guy who just gaslit Claire on the Men Tell All and basically called her an old... Oh, okay, okay. Are we pulling up Yosef? Truly wretched.

And then I came back for the Men Tell All and had the opportunity to be like, hey, I wasn't my best self. No, but tripled down and just tried to... And just to the point where you're just like, why would you do this to yourself? Yosef. Here's Yosef from Claire.

Yes. Okay. I remember Yosef. So what if it's Yosef? What if it's Luke Parker? There are a handful of men that could have shown up. Yeah. And Kate had been like, yeah, it's week four.

I'm sorry. Yeah. I can't do this. I'm like, eh. But no, she cried. Yeah. And I'm, I can't do this. I'm like, eh. But no, she cried. Yeah. And I'm just like, something's up.

I want to hear it. Yeah. And I think it's okay. I mean, Caitlin and I walk so Katie and Blake could run. What a beautiful thing. Let's not have us here over the next year and a half, two years.

Like, you know, Caitlin and I, we're like, okay, we're not going to get flamed by Bachelor Nation for like doing a human thing and talking. Like, fine. Yeah, we talked a shit ton. Okay. Now the truth can be told.

I just don't see how she didn't have a lot of conversations with him. Well, so now he will be in the house and he will be potentially ostracized and demonsterized. Yes. When everyone is hanging out together in a mansion and you are on the outside,

what do you do? Because there's a lot of shots of like Thomas last night just sitting in a chair by himself, which made me feel awful. It's a horrible feeling. Yeah. It was like, I had like sixth grade flashbacks. You know they're talking about you. It's high school. It's terrible. Yeah.

I'm really thankful like when I showed up you know I showed up and it was like all the guys on the opposite side of the wall and me on a couch like this oversized couch where I'm sitting on just to like really let you know I'm by myself and I got all the tough questions and I was fortunate because like guys like

Jared and Ben honestly other than Sean most of the guys were like hey man welcomeared and ben and like honestly other than sean most of the guys were like hey man welcome you seem all right and and you know throughout the season some of them definitely stabbed me in the back and talk some shit but they were and i suspect that most of the guys will probably be like that to blake we're like i don't know that's we won't see that i don't think and they will certainly be guys who take exception with Blake. I am curious who, though, right? Because on my season, it was the clear front runner and Sean, which made it like that much more compelling that the guy who is running away with Caitlin's heart.

Yeah. Is the one guy who truly hated me. And so, Greg, you know, will Greg take exception to Blake? Will Greg be threatened by Blake? I don't know. Because we saw Katie do something. When Katie talked to Greg this episode, it was very telling. I mean, Greg is a clear front runner.

There's no second. It's not even close. I would put Connor B in there. She likes him. Okay. Yeah. He's nice. She likes Andrew S.

Okay. She liked him. Okay. Yeah. He's nice. She likes Andrew S. Okay. She liked Thomas, but Katie sat down with Greg and asked how he's doing. She checked in with Greg. How are you feeling? Okay. Anything I could do to make this experience? Because if you leave, I'm fucked. Yeah.

Because my heart, you already have my heart. Okay. And if you go. Your expert analysis. I'm going to freak out. Is truly truly i've been there i mean i mean it's a weird feeling because once your heart goes a certain direction you start panicking right about what if they leave yeah what if they don't like me back oh my god i'm the bachelorette i'm the bachelor i'm supposed to have all these people pursuing me i'm supposed to have choices

and all i care about is one person liking me it's a very terrifying feeling and she's checking in with greg now again we she might be checking in with other guys we didn't get to see but okay wow yeah we saw that that at all and if if if she only has a limited time with greg which she probably does because gray's first impression rose first one on one. Right. Great. Can't cannibalize all this time. It's TV show. We need to see. We need to get all these other guys. Yeah. And if all Katie talks

about with Greg, her front runner is are you OK? They're going to have to air that. Yeah. Oh, wow. OK. These are things I had not considered at all. I thought he was a front runner, but I didn't. It did. He for me did not emerge as the front runner. Yeah, I think he's think he's a guy and i think caitlin i think katie's already getting in her head about what happens if he leaves i was in my head about vanessa

i think other leads have been in their head about their front runners yeah and they like other people they really do they feel a connection you know i think katie really likes michael yeah but not like greg okay so then so then what happens if he does well then i i mean if vanessa left like i don't know i i would i i would have been like how could i be sincere and get engaged to anyone else yeah and i do believe that katie wants to like most leads she's filming a tv show she knows it she's doing her job but she wants this to be an authentic experience for her yeah and i think that's where you run into some some trouble wow all right well she kicked off a couple of people who i had my eye on who um uh connor c hadn't seen a lot of personality from

connor c but he's a handsome guy he is yeah he is a handsome guy um i was i was waiting to see more from him and uh christian who thank you i heard a yes yes yes well she's a boston gal and okay well christian was heather mcdonald's like she she thought christian was gonna She's a Boston gal. Okay. Well, Christian was Heather McDonald's. She thought Christian was going to be a run for the next Bachelor. He looks like Judge Reinhold playing James Spader. Yes. It's wild. He does. He's got a lovely vibe about him.

He's very handsome. He's wholesome, but he also kind of comes off like he's drunk. I don't know, I really, I liked him a lot. The Boston charm, it's like rowdy and classy. Yes, at the same time. Yeah, for sure, he went to like a fancy school, but like you'll have a gin and tonic at 10 in the morning. He's Chuck Bass.

I went to school with a lot of those people. Yeah, he has a Chuck Bass effect. Yeah, I like him a lot. Katie did not though. Yeah, that's a shame, that is a real shame. school with a lot of those people yeah he has a chuck bass effect yeah i like him a lot katie did not though yeah that's a shame that is a real shame and connor c has a of he he has a handsomeness that sneaks up on you yeah he like a couple you know you're just like who's this pretty good looking guy yeah like why why are we not seeing former baseball player from costa mesa that's a catch that's a catch if you ask me.

Yeah, I was waiting to see more and never really did. Oh, well. I watched this episode twice. Was there not a one-on-one? This was the end of last episode, so we didn't get a rose ceremony. So we saw the first group date and the one-on-one last episode. No, because of how it rolled from the opening with the thing to the group date. Yeah, I didn't think so.

I thought about that. It'll be next week. So with who? We don't know yet. We don't know yet. We don't know yet. Let's wrap up the group. So here's how I classify roses.

There are love roses. Yes. And there are drama roses. Okay. there are love roses yes and there are drama roses okay now almost all one-on-one roses are love roses they're okay all right they're sincere and so far the one-on-ones have been greg greg uh well michael andrew no andrew got a group date rose Connor B I think there's only been two two that's nuts

but Connor B had a Rose no Michael has there only been two one-on-ones and we're at four episodes in that can't be right yeah because of the

because of the way they're ending it that's why it's a good season in the middle of an episode after a group date that's why it's such a good season there's time jumps it's like lost so there's love roses and drama roses and almost exclusively the one-on-ones you can assume they're love roses sure katie advancing her relationships group dates there

are some love roses and there's some drama roses drama roses and this was the most drama rose rose of all time by Trey being rewarded for advancing a story. Trey Hunter, in his way, feels very much like a let's keep this guy around. Oh, yeah. To stir some shit up. But I'm just specifically speaking to the rose that Trey got in the group date rose. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, which was so defeating for Andrew because you knew, like, Andrew knew. He's like, I know I'm right.

I know. And Andrew couldn't believe it. And even how Andrew handled the disappointment of Trey, I also thought was classy. I just can't say enough about how Andrew performed this episode. But yes, it was a drama rose of the highest degree. And then we moved into essentially the thomas really the rest of the episode was about thomas and the drama and blake i mean we met drama uh katie and and blake met he's like if oh yeah if if if we connect the way i think we do we will be engaged i mean that's

that felt like a show line i was a little bummed by that line because, like, I don't doubt that either, A, you guys have been hanging out and have already hooked up, or, B, that was a line that was a little showy in a sense. Like, can't you just be like, I think we'll be – I don't know what I said, but it was just like, I think – I'm sure I said something like, I think – it was a classic, like, I like you. Hold on. I got to like, Katie's like, but just so you know, there's other connections and I don't know. And I got to make it sound like we didn't like, I'm not super thrilled. And of course you're going to stay like, like I don't. Yeah.

That whole like routine. But Blake did the whole, like, I think we will be engaged, which I felt was a little aggressive and a little unnecessary. Yeah. He could have just been like, I think we might be. Well, listen, it'll be worthwhile. They've caught him in the middle of the night. He didn't even have a robe.

Just out of curiosity, who did he think was going to be at the door? Yeah. And if not Katie, that's fine. Housekeeping or room service. Yeah. It's like a nurse testing for COVID. When Katie got a knock on the door and it was Tayshia

talking about Blake, Katie said, there was a knock on my door and the last person I expected to see was Tayshia. Really? I thought about that too. The last person.

The host of the show that you're on is the last person that you thought? I literally said the same thing. Thank you for reminding me. Annie Lennox of the Eurythmics was not the last person

you would have expected to see. Colonel Sanders. There are a lot of people I would expect to see less than the host of the show that I'm currently on. Where there are cameras in my room. It's not the best acting on Katie's part. Not great. But you know what? It's not supposed to be her thing.

She's here to be authentic. She's here to love. She's here to love. Yeah, great point. Okay. So, I mean. Okay, so I mean, obviously a dramatic moment, perhaps the most dramatic rose ceremony ever

when she has one rose left and she calls Thomas. Did you... People lose their minds. ...like how Katie handled that? Not at all. Neither did I. No, not at all.

I hated it. Yeah. I'm going to ask Katie about it. Yeah. I love Katie as a bachelorette. I think she's doing an excellent job. Yeah. It felt unnecessary and mean.

She said. And mean. She said. She's calling a liar. Thomas, you told me things I wanted to hear. So did everyone else. True statement. I can stand by that.

I understand how she felt that. Sure. Justified thing to say. Yes. What I learned about you tonight is you're selfish. Maybe. You could accuse him of admitting that I'm here for my relationship with Katie. I guess if I have to be honest, I'm going to focus on my relationship with Katie more

than I'm going to be concerned about your relationship with Katie. So, yeah, we can accuse Thomas of being selfish, unkind. I don't, where's that coming from? Because I met Thomas and while I thought he was full of shit, he literally told me that he loved me on Andy season of the best charrette.

Very kind thing to say. Yes. Total full of shit. Yeah. But kind you'll, you'll like him forever. Yeah. Yeah. When people say they voted for me on MTV, I'm like, you're great. And a lot of committed murder. yes total full of shit yeah but kind you'll you'll like him forever yeah yeah when people

say they voted for me on mtv i'm like you're great and i don't care if you've committed murder you're great a liar i don't understand the lying part yeah he he he might be guilty of coming on to be a bachelor he might but like he he's the only one who didn't lie this episode yes when katie asked him well i heard this whole bachelor thing thomas said verbatim what he said in the group session that i was there what he said to the guys and again this is all taped so like they he said word for word what he said to the guys yeah he didn't paraphrase no what i completely disagree like i think katie was so justified to do what she did because we talk a lot about on the show about like people who use big words like manipulating or gaslighting without and she did she broke it down based on what she knew she knew that he was a sweet talker who was always telling people in the house what

they wanted to hear in a way that was not authentic or honest and i think she had every right to say just so you know like i am regaining control of this season and like it clearly hit a really deep insecurity thinking he was there for the like incorrect reasons i don't doubt that but again i also i i i empathize with katie as i do with any lead because again i think she got gassed up by everyone when she had that sit down with caitlin and tasia caitlin does caitlin yeah caitlin and tasia yeah they were just gassing her up yeah they came in there to just talk shit about thomas it's it it went it escalated so quickly from like oh this guy says nice things to people to get them to like him which who doesn't yeah uh to he's vulnerable or to his uh manip them to like him, which who doesn't? To he's manipulative.

To he's evil. Evil. I don't think he's evil. And I just don't understand. Like, send him home. But like the whole, and again, you know, that's not Katie's fault that they put on extra rows that wasn't going to be given out and she stepped back.

And again, she's playing a role. She's doing her job. And that's the thing you know like i don't fault the lead ever but but katie is that's the hardest part about this role is that she so desperately i assume because i've been in that situation wants this to be a truly authentic experience every fight that she probably and everyone fights with the production to a certain extent it's this tension of like, this is my life. Yeah.

And I want to be authentic to certain things as a lead she has to just do. Because it's a weird thing to date 30 guys. Sure. Not normal. No one chooses to do that. And so, again, I just didn't like it. And all Thomas did, like the whole was thomas trying to dig himself out a hole he got himself in by being honest by just doing the right thing when i was when thomas

said what he said in group session i didn't like i didn't think anything of it i was like oh thanks for yeah good for you i honestly didn't think he had any to admit to that and he did yeah and again katie can send them home. But yeah, it doesn't have to be a thing. Like that was shaming. Yeah. She shamed him in front of what is ultimately going to be America and the guys. And it was just, and I just, I don't understand.

Where is he unkind? Yeah. He was perfectly nice and perfectly honest. And yet she says, you're a liar. Get out of my Native American craft museum. Right. I just, I didn't, I didn't, I, it felt like an overplay of the hand. and yet she says you're a liar get out of my native american craft museum right now i i just i didn't i didn't i it felt like an overplay of the hand i also and i've said this i don't

i'll say it'll happen and katie won't be the last she's certainly not the first but when when thomas and katie were talking yeah thomas definitely interrupted her was not okay and when you people in relationship fight there's some talking over each other. I don't like it when the bachelorette scolds the guys. When she's, let me talk. And she didn't scream at him, but raised her voice a bit. Talked to him like, not necessarily her equal, but talked to her like, I'm the bachelorette and you don't do that again she won't be the last it's just not my favorite it we're a podcast that talks a lot about relationships

and if if katie were to call like i would just be like listen if someone called in and played a tape of this fight be like hey you know i'm just fighting with my boyfriend and like is there something i could have done better i would have been like i i just don't see how like just say hey please don't interrupt me i'm talking you know but like that's not how she said it and i there's a lot of pressure because again ever like i'm i'm guessing and we're recording this before we see it a lot of people love katie for it they're gonna love her for it but i i it's it feels performative and yeah it's and it speaks to brand building right like hey i'm a, I'm a, you know, I stand up for myself and I don't take any shit from the Thomases of the world

and that kind of thing. And so when I graduate to my own show after this is over, which she, of course, is thinking about, right? That doesn't mean that she's not there for the right reasons. You're just thinking about what comes next. Of course. Yeah. Yes.

Did you have to scold anybody on your season? I don't recall. Well, that's the other thing, right? If any bachelor ever talked to a girl like that, they would be crucified by natural. And rightfully so. Yeah. I don't think anyone should talk to their partner that way.

Yeah. In this kind of condescending you know i'm the boss i mean this is about a show about relationships and so that's the hard part and yeah it's not realistic and is a silly tv show but all these relationships are supposed to be 50 50 right well unless you're mike who thinks it's supposed to be 100 100 which is what he's trying to say is that you're supposed to do 100 of your half but sure supposed to have a double relationship at all times. Yeah. Twice a relationship.

And so I just, it's just the point of, I don't love it. And again, I'm not criticizing Katie specifically. So many best threats have done it before her. And so many more will do it after her. I don't like it. I don't love it. There's a lot of things, a lot of things that men need to work on that are stereotypes of things they get wrong often in relationships. And this is one thing I just don't particularly love.

Okay. This hits you deeply. I think we need to try to, again, it's about respect. And at this point, I get where Katie's coming from because she, at this point, she's probably angry. I know when I was there, it was clear she liked Thomas. She's probably angry. Yeah. I know when I was there, it was clear she liked Thomas.

And Thomas was giving all of us attention and validation. And only to hear about your being lied and manipulated by someone, I would be mad. Sure. So I get where Katie's coming from. Again, I think so much of what Katie is finding out, she's hearing through third party. When The Bachelor or Bachelorette watches the show back, they're finding a lot of new information and so i don't fault katie as much as i fault everyone else who lied to her she was lied to trey said he he came here he admitted to coming here to be the bachelor that is not what's not what he said that's not what he said at all and while it doesn't it sounds like

oh what's the difference there's a huge fucking difference. Right. Everybody's thinking about it. Everybody's thinking about it. It crosses your mind. Yes. There's such a huge difference in the meaning of that word. And Trey flat out lied. This is some bullshit. And I'm just wondering if Katie watching it back with a critical eye.

And I don't doubt. I don't think Katie was ever going to end up with Thomas. I don't, it's just more what I would have wished for is that Katie got to do what Andrew wanted Katie to do is find out for herself. Yeah. So that when watching this episode back, she wouldn't have to find that she was lied to by the other man in the

house. And at least to some degree made her decisions based off lies that she was told. Tony, it's going to be a good man teller. And I don't. And again, this is coming from a guy who I thought my impression with Thomas was that he was full of shit. Who else did you meet, by the way, this season? You said you met nine of us.

Just the guys on the date. That's all I met. Oh, right. Of course. Okay. Okay. Justice for Thomas again he's perfect I'm not saying

he's a bit of a sweet talker I'm not saying he's capable of being full of shit and gets in his head but and

can be disingenuous 100% he can be but like damn he got fucking yeah roasted for it and I do love how the show aired this episode because i personally think they aired it in a way where i i bet there will be a lot of

people that feels like this seems unright unjustified i don't get where this is coming from this is asymmetrical and i like i like that the show uh showed a situation where it was clearly the guy. I like how they aired it. I think they did a good job. And in a weird way, it's going to seem like Thomas will be okay for it. Yeah. It's not his best look, but like they left the door open for there to be for some disagreements on who do you side with. Amanda sides with the house

i wouldn't say that i side with the house i think i just words in her mouth i just support katie to set the tone and say this is how i'm going to do it this is what i'm going to take this is not what i'm going to take i'm going to do it in front of everyone so you know exactly what's happening and the other thing i would just say is that like you talked a lot about how this season the people who applied to be on the season did it before they knew who the bachelorette was you know exactly what's happening. And the other thing I would just say is that like, you talked a lot about how this season, the people who applied to be on the season did it before they knew who the bachelorette was. So instead of maybe making it an innocent until proven guilty, I think maybe we switch it to more of like a guilty until proven innocent.

Katie has the right to do that. I don't know. I wouldn't recommend anyone do that in any relationship. So wait, that relationships are about taking risks. And if you go in thinking everyone's a liar and a cheater and disingenuous, you're gonna be limiting yourself to truly connect.

That's the risk you take. When they asked me to be a bachelor, I was thinking about this last night. I was sick to my stomach when they asked me because it was just like, I knew what they were asking me. What they were asking me is to get engaged in nine weeks based off of people they were going to select mostly for a TV show. Uh-huh. Gee, and they did know it was you going in.

No. I mean, they asked me. They were casting for Luke the whole time. The contestants. No, they had no idea. The batch. Showing, at what point did they find out it was you? When I was announced.

Okay. But they had already been cast. Oh, my, yeah. Okay. I mean, that casting process was going on for months. They asked, I found out like two, three weeks before we started filming. Really? And it was just a weird it was a weird situation

where you know a lot of things had to happen where i became this surprising fan favorite on paradise meanwhile luke pell was digging himself a hole and they were just like fuck it let's just go with nick yeah you know and i hadn't thought about luke and ages yeah so it's just one of those random things and uh yeah it's i i empathize with it's so one of those random things. And yeah, I empathize with, it's so hard to be the lead. I'll say this all the time. I will always defend the leads just because they're put in such a difficult position.

Yeah. But I am curious. I'm going to ask Katie. I wonder if she watches it back. Does she wish she would have done things differently? There are things I wish I would have done things differently. You find out things and be like, oh. What do you wish you'd done differently?

I don't know. I'll have to think about it. Well, I definitely wouldn't have gotten the bouncy castle. I wouldn't have done that. I wish I would have regret that. A lot of the stuff with Corinne, I was trying not to be a dick. Corinne brought out the whipped cream. She put it like on the top of her chest.

And I, and I was like, I don't want to make her feel silly. So I'll play along. Yeah. And I wish I would have been like, Hey, I like you.

Yeah. Well, let's not bounce. Let's not, you know, but it's a fine line. How do you, it's,

you know, I don't know. I don't know how I would, I, you know, so like little stuff fine line. How do you, it's, you know, I don't know. I don't know how I would, I, you know, so like little stuff like that. I mean, it's slightly different than what I'm talking about,

but you find out things in the house of drama going on, you know, I mean, a lot of stuff that, a lot of stuff, some of the drama that happened on my season, like there was fights between Vanessa and Rachel that we never got to see. Okay.

But I found that out after filming okay you know um i didn't know about that stuff interesting but and you also know who's in paradise right now i know i've heard some rumors you know can i will tell you everything i know when we get done am i warm am i getting warm nobody can see am i am i warm i don't know if he's there okay i don't i doubt he's there i mean all these guys who are going home now are combination of katie's not into them and they they're not adding any value not any i mean again trey is adding value yes he is he's getting roses i don't think katie's into trey okay you know, so maybe Trey in Paradise is what you're saying? Maybe.

Maybe. Okay. A rematch in Paradise? With David Spade for some reason? What's that about? I don't know. That seems

like you want to go less problematic from a I don't know from a Chris Harrison where David Spade seems more. Doesn't he?

I don't know. Okay. No. We don't have to talk about it now we can talk about it off uh any final thoughts before we re-wrap it up um no nothing i other than that one one more time really left me emotionally vulnerable vulnerable oh a couple hunter hunter yeah hunter said something like um if th stays, this will be like hell. This will be like hell. Was that Hunter?

It was, I forgot the exact quote, but it was, hell was just like, it could be worse than hell. And I'm like, what could be? The whole concept of hell is that there's nothing worse. Could be worse. Yeah. Hunter, a lot of hyperbolic

statements sure about how and then also like hunter i haven't had you i haven't seen any conversations between you and katie right so isn't hunter just as guilty as thomas for calling katie his girl uh talking about his connection. Yeah. Where is this coming from? Hunter. We're getting a lot of Hunter next week group here. Yeah. And I'm excited for it.

There's a rage within. Yeah. There's a little guy anger. Yes. There seems to be a bit of Napoleon syndrome. Hey, just so you guys know, I'm competitive. And I'm going to basically, again, we'll get into that i'm sure next week but like that is performative hunter sees and it looks like it's blake he injures it's my okay it's possible yeah let's assume it's blake i could be wrong it seemed like blake so hunter is this assuming that blake

just like when i got in there i was the the bad guy by default. All the guys thought they should yell at me. So they did yell at me. Oh, that's got to be fun. It's not fun. Yeah. But Hunter is thinking he should yell at Blake. He's not sitting there being like, I don't know. Maybe this guy has a genuine connection.

Right. You know, maybe I should just give him the benefit of the doubt. Why am I assuming he's a bad guy? Yeah. And he thinks he's going to be justified by, like, spearheading him in the back while playing rugby. But yeah, some sort of weird singlet Quidditch rugby thing. I'm curious to see what that is. I'm also curious to get into this aggressive tattoo that the guy has.

We've seen some. We have not seen all. There's a lot going on there. Well, I think it speaks to his competitive nature. His deeply competitive nature. He can withstand pain. And he'll break your back on live television. It's been a fantastic season so far.

It really has. It really has. I always love talking with you. Likewise. Enjoy your July 4th. You as well. Anything else you can let us know what you're doing, what you're working on? I don't know if I can say it i'm working on a a new

podcast that's coming out in october but we'll talk about it later talk about well please come back i would love for michelle's season oh my god yeah when is michelle's season i think we'll be recapping around october okay so wait it's it's katie then paradise so paradise i think starts in august great it bleed. Not a moment too soon. Yeah, well, either way. I am dying for Paradise. I've never needed it worse. I think it's going to be good.

I think it's going to be a good one. Dave, thanks so much. Nick, thank you. Guys, thanks for listening. Appreciate you choosing us. One of 1,792 Bachelorette Recap podcasts that are available for you to listen to. And this is the only one. Thank you for choosing us.

Don't forget, we have Katie. Tomorrow, we'll be asking her some hard-hitting questions. This is very exciting. Also, we will be spending a lot of time just getting to know Katie. Grace. And the person outside of the show. Please say hello for me.

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I don't know, 24 hours. Bye.