The Viall Files - E285 Katie Thurston Gets Heartbroken

Episode Date: June 30, 2021

Today on The Viall Files we are joined by The Bachelorette herself, Katie Thurston. Katie shares with us what we didn't see when it came to Tre & Thomas and why she used the word “unkind” upon his exit. We find out more about Blake sliding into her DM’s before coming on the show and who she thought the person coming in could be. Then Nick takes some time to get to know Katie a little bit more away from the show and we learn more about what makes this strong woman, strong.  “The biggest thing I have learned is not changing myself to fit their needs.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Vizzy: http://www.vizzyhardseltzer.com/VIALL To find out where you can purchase Vizzy’s limited-edition Pride Packaging, or any of their other refreshing flavors. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @thekatiethurston See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody welcome back to another very special episode of the vile files I'm your host Nick we have the team Amanda Alley and uh amanda is that your name i almost forgot it for a second i'm just kidding my name is chrissy though just in case you're wondering i don't have amanda energy oh okay no i get tripped up because i think sometimes i say amanda and ally and i decided to switch it up and then i got confused also i'm just really excited for our guest this episode. You know her, you love her, the bachelorette. Katie Thurston's with us tonight.

Before we get to Katie's truly, you won't want to miss an interview. Just a couple quick reminders. We're sending your questions to asknickatcastmedia.com, cast with a K, for Ask Nick episodes. If you are tuning in for the Katie episode, we do some really fantastic things on Mondays where people write in and share their dating stories, dating problems, just general questions. We give some insight and opinions.

People seem to like it. And if you want to check that out or are interested in anything like that, give us a listen because I know many of you are probably just here to listen to Katie. So we also next week have Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan

just nailing names you know him from Lord of the Rings and many other amazing movies just a couple fun loving guys who value their friendship and we talk about friendship and they're just really interesting and fascinated to have so many different takes on life so check that out

I think we covered it. Did I cover it? Do we have it? Are we good? Great. Well, let's get to Katie. Katie, thanks for joining us. Cheers.

I appreciate you coming. You just, for those of you listening, you just got to L.A. from Seattle? Texas, actually. Visiting family over there. Yeah, what were you doing in Texas? Visiting family yeah like a quick weekend what part of texas oh i'm gonna pronounce this wrong uh new braunfels sorry guys if you're from there uh is it a large town city i don't know i know nothing about texas my first time that was your first. Oh, what made you go this time? Family. I know that, but did they just move there?

Yeah, my cousin works for Tesla, so Tesla's just moved in over in Austin, yeah. Okay, what do they do there? She's like high up. She's a big deal. Okay. Yeah, Elon, I could probably meet him. I saw him at a party once. What's he like?

It was at the end of the night. I try not to make strong eye contact. He seemed nice. He was talking to other people. I didn't stay along to observe him, or I did not also meet him. It was a very large party. It wasn't like an intimate setting.

Anyway, enough about Elon Musk. I'm so excited to have you. I've been looking forward to chatting with you. we met uh when i showed up uh while filming and it was that lovely to meet you then i as a fan uh and as someone who's been in your shoes i i want to say i i really think you're doing great at being the bachelorette uh again as a fan thank you it's a very entertaining season so far you're a big reason why you know having the conversations being honest your thoughts your feelings as someone who's been in your shoes I can tell the things that have been thrown at you and the adversity you've been asked

to face you know there's no denying that as the leader of the show you are in charge partly of of making the tv show and that comes sometimes at a price. And sometimes you have to do a job all while simultaneously trying so hard to make it the most authentic experience possible. And I think you're doing a great job. Thank you. Yeah, it's a task that people don't really realize, I think. It's tough. Yeah, it's a task that people don't really realize. I think it's tough. Yeah. And rightfully so. It's a really bizarre experience that you can't really put into words.

I've told this story before, but I've had other leads before I was a bachelor being like, you just don't have any idea what it's like. And I was the guy who was like the two-time runner up. And I'm like, well, you have no idea what I've been through. And then, and then I, when I was a bachelor, uh, I was like, fuck, yeah, they, they weren't kidding. It's a really challenging experience. Um, with all that said, I have some questions about tonight's episode. Um, so one thing I know that I've experienced, and I've talked to friends of mine who have been in our position as well, is that you almost are surprised, even though you know it that when you watch their season back there's so much you get to see for the first time do you relate to that experience oh yeah like andrew and trey going at it i had no idea that was going on

like i think very highly of both of them and to see them kind of disagreeing was kind of a shock this episode really was there anything else i mean it's tough because there's like so much that isn't seen that i know that i experienced like especially with thomas for example um but yeah it's just it's interesting to see like the guys like interact where i'm not around and to get to watch that for the first time honestly so that was my question i'm glad you brought up Thomas. Because as you know, as someone who got to meet Thomas, first time, and I've said this on recap episodes, when I met Thomas, I just got a vibe from him. And that vibe was like, I don't really know this guy. I don't know if he's good or bad.

And I'm sure he's an all right guy. But I don't believe what he's saying. And because for me, it just came across as a guy who it was too intense for that little of a time there. And I, you know, I knew that he didn't have a one-on-one yet. Right. So I was like, where's this coming from? And like, I know that world and Thomas wouldn't be the first guy who's fall victim to that kind of just kind of saying things that sound nice and so you know that i thought that i before i left was just like i just listened to you know thomas so i i was there right now after watching this episode and seeing how all the guys

uh took what Thomas said. And again, I'm there with Thomas definitely comes across as a bullshitter. But it felt like throughout the entire episode, you got lied to

by the guys. And maybe their intentions were still well and et cetera, et cetera. But were there things, so from my opinion watching it, it seemed like either one of two things. Either you got lied to and then like Caitlyn and Tayshia came up and kind of gassed you up as well.

I mean, this is bullshit. Like, he come here to be the bachelor. Like, well, whatever. Or there were things that we didn't get to see that thomas did or said that we just weren't aware of that also led to thomas's unceremonial unceremoniously am i saying that right exit and i'm yeah my question to you is which one is it i mean there's only so much you can show in like a two-hour episode right and one thing that I wish was shown that was kind of like the nail in the coffin for me was Thomas actually came forward and said that he was kind of mean to Trey. And Trey is like the most kind hearted man, you know. And so like once I heard that, I was like, if you can't handle like conversations, I've already experienced it firsthand. Like you aren't able to communicate like in a normal, effective way. Now you're being mean to Trey, who's like a sweetheart.

Like I don't have time for you, you know, and I wasn't going to waste any time with him. Like, yeah, he's hot. And I really was hoping to be honest. I'll take him to fantasy suites, you know, but like I don't have time to waste. And so I was like, you got to go. OK. Was any of that mean that was a meanness to Trey wasn't shown? Correct, yeah.

But it was talked about by Thomas himself. He admitted to it. So there was a confrontation between Trey and Thomas that at least your understanding that Thomas talked to Trey in a way that was scary or bad? Yeah, that's why in my speech I'm like, you're unkind. Okay, because I That's why like in my speech, I'm like, you're unkind,

you know? And that's why. Cause I'll be honest. And my recap, I, it, I was just like, where's unkind coming from?

Is there something we're not seeing or she's been told this now. So, and Trey told you this and Thomas admitted to it. Thomas just, Trey never brought it up, you know, but I do want to give him credit for coming forward, you know um but he did kind of keep that to himself thomas was the one who admitted he was just spilling like words after words after words like that

conversation did you confirm anything with trey though i didn't care to honestly like with thomas i was just over it i did not care to i don't have time to waste you know and that's the thing i'm gonna make quick decisions and if all of a sudden like there's no guys left that's not on me that's on like casting you know if you're gonna bring shitty guys here that's not on my mind cheers cheers to that i just want to point out that all the women on my season were wonderful people and i couldn't be more thankful that they showed up yeah like i'm not gonna i'm gonna waste time with these like shitty guys. Like, bye. Get out. Okay. Okay.

I love that. Trey did lie to you. When? He said, and this is what was aired. Yeah. That Thomas admitted to showing up to be the bachelor. And Thomas said, when asked multiple times by hunter and the guys like did you let me ask did you think about being and now he was like and thomas like yeah i don't know i thought about like the possibility of being the bachelor and i'm here

to say like we all have like the consider like oh i mean it'd be crazy right but like what if i'd be nuts i mean of course not that's crazy but and so it just felt like again thomas totally sounds like he's full of shit but i my question to you is this like i don't believe again who might say but i when i left there i was like i don't i don't see it i know she has the hots for thomas but i just i katie's smart i just don't see i don't really see a connection so So I don't think you're going to end up with Thomas. But you're still glad he went home this week rather than like taking the fantasy suite. I mean, yeah, here's the thing. Yeah, of course, everyone thinks like,

if I don't fall in love, there is an opportunity to become the bachelor or the bachelorette. But the way that Thomas conveyed it to me, to the house, it almost seemed like he came in wanting to be the bachelor first. And that was where it was like, okay, you weren't even open to like falling in love you're just like let's skip that step and become the bachelor and that's the difference i think that

people are kind of missing with how he kind of explained himself okay i got you and again i i definitely saw that i what i hated for me as a fan i i i thought thought Andrew had arguably the best single night performance in the history of the show. Just like I wasn't, it wasn't about whether I agreed with Thomas or not. I just love that Andrew made it very clear that he believed in you and he trusted you and all these other guys had a bunch of like shit to say and but at the end of the day all i heard is i don't think katie's gonna ask enough questions to figure out thomas that's what i heard from them and i heard from andrew is i know katie's gonna ask the right questions and figure thomas out and i just didn't like that and do you feel the same or no it's tough because

i feel like trey and andrew. both had good arguments for the situation. What really annoyed me, though, was the evening before the rose ceremony. I was pretty much made up. I was like, I don't need you guys' input anymore. But then every single guy felt the need to bring him up. And I'm like, I'm just done talking about him. Okay.

All right. So we're moving on from Thomas. You're happy. No regrets. Sometimes people watch the show and are like, oh, fuck, man. Like, I didn't know that happened. And sometimes it changes their point. But I just want to you you are. I feel like looking forward, thinking forward. I feel good about it. Let's get drunk and also take care of your body.

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slash subscribe must be 21 years or older do you care, or think it's a bad idea for Thomas to show up on Paradise? Oh, I am nervous for any woman who interacts with Thomas, honestly. Okay. He's a smooth talker. Wow. And I wouldn't be surprised if he like recycles some lines with me on some of these women. Well, I can assure you if he does, we will all find out. Yes.

In slow motion, probably. Good luck to them. There's probably an ex-girlfriend at home who's like, yeah, I got that line. So you, okay, there's, you have no, like, maybe there's just a side of Thomas. Maybe that situation brought out the worst in Thomas and maybe. I don't know. Here's where I just, and again, I agree with you because you're a fan of the franchise. You've been watching this show.

When I was on Andy's season, watching this episode back, specifically this episode, it reminded me of being on andy season it reminded like instead of the word manipulative it was strategic and it was like oh and it's so strategic and it was just like the fucking guys just like ran with like the thought that i used my brain and like i was like oh you got her flowers you evil fuck and these guys leaving the season leaving that world thought nick i wouldn't trust nick i wouldn't trust him i mean for like months after that season ended until i like met like hung out because a lot of times you don't hang out with them and you meet them up and that they had that narrative in their head do you think there's any chance that the guy's perception or

your perception of thomas could be that world or there's something about thomas that you just be warned oh look if i wanted to keep thomas i would have my connection with him was i think more sexual than like uh mental emotional he said all the right things but i like i already and i wish they showed it i questioned it very early on it's like no one's this perfect you know and so like my intuition was like i don't know about this guy and the second trey said what he said i was like boom i've been thinking about this for weeks okay but but paradise you're open to him maybe changing your mind and learning or no no if he's he's on Paradise, I don't care who he's with. I'm going to be like, watch out, girl.

Okay. Okay. You heard it here. I don't know if you heard it here first, but maybe you heard it here first. Let's talk about Blake. When we met for the first time, you briefly mentioned to me that you and Blake, and just to clarify,

because there's been some shitty reporting, I said in last week's recap that I was under the impression that there was a handful of DMs between Blake and Katie. And watching last night's episode uh when you talked to tasha well i guess my question to you is and you did you watch caitlin season yes yeah sorry you're aware that i showed up yeah i mean we talked about it that's the thing where it gets a little kind of confusing there's a lot of similarities between yours and kayla's season so far like eerie ptsd for nick

eerie similarities but i remember for me uh kayla and i had talked a ton we had never met in person but there was aggressive faith like we were we were saying some crazy ass shit it was like you know like it was just going down with like it was like what the but nevertheless so i had this really strong reason i was there or truly like i'm i was literally there for the right reasons right and when i showed up though out of fear of probably protecting caitlyn and protecting myself i acknowledged that we talked and but it was i downplayed it totally hard, right? And when I showed up, a lot of people watching when I showed up and they wondered why Caitlin and I had this seem to be obvious connection. And it was like, these motherfuckers.

I don't know. What's going on? Why is there a connection? I think you know where I'm going with this. And when Tayshia came in starting off and she's like, hey, this person and they're here, you seem to light up even then. And I know probably then you were already tired. You were already emotional just in general.

I know what that's like. But nevertheless, you got excited. I think you got teary-eyed. And my question to you was, A a did you think it might be blake b did you hope it was blake or or c none of the above it could be a and b yeah yeah so they definitely asked me like who do you think it is and honestly my thoughts were actually dr joe or blake those are two that would actually i think be like decent matches for me. Oh, okay.

Dr. Joe. Yeah, we had to put her on the podcast. Yes, Joe. Yeah, honestly. Because not to be like shady, but like if it was anyone else, like they would go home on the spot. That's, well, that was my reaction because like,

why is she getting so emotional? Because like for all she knows, it's Yusuf. Yeah. So why did you get so emotional? Because it could have been Yusuf. Yeah. So why did you get so emotional? Because it could have been Yusuf. I mean, I was more emotional, I think, for the connections I had

because it's like such a gamble. You know, like if I bring him in, what does this mean for like the front runners? You know, you have Greg, you have Michael A., Andrew S., all these people I'm building these connections with. If I bring in Blake, are these people going to just like check out or leave?

Like it's, you got to like weigh the good and the bad. I get it. You know? connections with if i bring in blake are these people gonna just like check out or leave like it's you gotta like weigh like the good and the bad i get it you know but at that point you didn't know who was there so you weren't quite yet faced with that that dilemma yeah so why did you cry i mean like i said like when i watched it i was crying about more just like the stress of like do i accept this person or not? You know, he was there yet. Did you know it was Blake? Definitely not.

And that's the thing. People don't understand like what all these guys, I call it Clay Show season. I think a lot of people do. What all these guys from Clay Show season do is they message the girl once they get booted off the show and they reach out. And that's all that Blake really did. So I didn't take him seriously as like, yeah, he's just doing the same thing that everyone else is doing.

Like whatever. And that's it. That was it. We're not going to find out like in two years like caitlin and i were like all right it's been two years we'll fucking tell you no no i i have all the dms like it's very brief it's very much like i didn't take him seriously even um knowing like who he was on tv and social media i was like whatever you know like it takes for me meeting someone in person and knowing that like actual connection, like when you feel it, you know, but you seemed, and there was clear chemistry between the two of you. And that was the first time you met or did you ever FaceTime? Never FaceTime. Nope. I'll tell you what these guys do is they send videos on Instagram. Wait, who? All of them. All of them. All of them. All the girls can testify. Wait, what? Yes. Not just me. All the women. All of them. All the girls can testify. Wait, what?

Yes, not just me. All the women from Matt's season. They'll send these videos. Who's they? The guys? The guys. All the single guys. From the world

or the Bachelorette franchise? The franchise in general. They send these videos because then they disappear. So there's no like evidence. You send like the one video like, hey, just want to say

you did really good on Matt's season. Like, good luck. You were great. And then the video disappears disappeared so there's no evidence so no offense to blake but like he was one of like a bunch of them who had done that to either me or other girls so i was like whatever nothing is like weird they're saying nice job and maybe they're polite they're they're kind of testing the water yeah they're dipping their toes and i was not i mean again no offense i was not interested that's what i mean that's what i did i sent her a dm in the tweets but i was like tell me about uh what's her name it was like a soft open right interesting yeah so blake was one of many i don't mean i don't say like

many but like it was just not i wasn't surprised he did that because he wasn't the first he had done that to me other guys had done that to me or friends of mine from that season you said you have the dms i do can we well they're videos that's the thing you send the video and it's you can watch it one time right like oh so he never sent any written text no i know come on i i actually went back i was like what did we talk about because it was back i don't know back in i think february was when i was kicked off of matt's season and that's when he reached out they wait for you to get kicked off because they're like is she with so did you send any videos back or was this only a one-way conversation no i definitely sent it

back like yeah thanks whatever you know but like it's also a video yeah same thing but it's also awkward you're like hey never talked to you before we are a technology dating app positive podcast and we are open to all ways for people to connecting there is no judgment and we won't stand for anything but i'll say like he didn't he wasn't very obvious with his intentions and we brought that up like when i talked to him i was like i didn't even know you were interested in me like he just very casually like tested the waters but didn't try too hard okay i wasn't interested i'm still not totally understanding or buying why you got if if you hoped it was blake when you were talking to taisha i didn't hope it was blake i don't know why you were so emotional then i feel like you didn't watch the episode because when i watched

it i thought i was emotional because i was scared to bring anybody on whether it was you didn't have to you could have sent anyone home i mean yeah but i want to like i don't know i'm like i got michael i got greg i got andrew s like who knows a couple like why didn't you just like i don't know tisha like i don't want your you're still a few seconds no i just why were you emotional i just wanted to meet who it was you know like i said i my thoughts were like okay dr joe blake i would probably say okay maybe but like again no offense to the other guys but if it was one of them i'd be like bye like instantly on the spot so blake uh blake and maybe dr where you do have kept dr joe absolutely okay absolutely and the

thing with blake is like everyone was shipping us like after um matt and claysh's season it seems like a fit i'll say i said only because like he made, I don't know, like a clay penis or something. And I came up with a dildo. I'll be honest. Oh, you're a match made in heaven. I'm like, okay. I don't remember Blake doing that. Yeah.

And I relate to people making very broad gen relations and saying you're a perfect fit. I really empathize with how irritating that can sound. But I just think, there just seems to be like, I get it. I don't know why. And maybe we'll learn more as we watch, and I'll totally disagree. But I remember when you told me, and you were like, what do you think? And I was like, fuck yeah, why not?

I don't know if you want it. It works for me. I didn't met any of the other guys at that point. But interesting. Okay. Well, I think that's the only questions i have specifically about the show uh so far is there anything you want to tease and let us know what we can look forward to before we dive into who is katie i think people think they know what my type

is and they don't that's i think the biggest surprise as you watch each episode you know people are like ruling out these guys i'm like don't rule them out yet like I'm getting to know them in their hearts and their minds and I'm really giving them a chance I think people are going to see that this season so at this point this season it's not as obvious to you as it is to us that you're going to pick Greg oh absolutely not like I was very open no it was I honestly I would I would stop it I would ask Caitlin and Tisha I'm like when and Tayshia, I'm like, when is it that you like, you know, like, when does it like click? Because like, I'd be like with one guy, I'm like, he's great.

And I'd be with another guy, I'm like, he's also great. Like, when does it click? You know? And that was like the biggest fear for me going forward. Really? And then you're like, I clicked with Greg. I'll be honest, I'm a pretty good reader of people

and you have a pretty good poker face. I can't tell if you're just being a savvy bachelorette or totally lying to myself. I gotta be smart. As I drink more whiskey.

Oh, she's gotta be smart. She's got to be smart. Not necessarily honest. Not strategic. Smart. It's so smart, not necessarily honest. Not strategically smart. It's so smart that she picked Greg. Congratulations, Greg. I see it. I get it.

And, like, again, it was Vanessa's to lose the whole time. And even after she tried to lose it multiple times, I was like, fuck it, I'm still going to pick you. So, you know, you never know how those things go. Well, great. Thank you for indulging my hard-hitting questions about the show. It is a great season so far. And I am excited to see what happens.

And it sounds like we can confirm there is a thing stopped short the season or is that just a rumor you have yet to know been allowed to confirm no i'll confirm it the end gets crazy like it's like not traditional at all and i'm like what the fuck is happening that's all i'll say that's all you'll say yeah i don't like it gets crazy i know i don't want to know spoilers i enjoy not knowing what happens so let's get to know katie uh let's start at the beginning so you're from seattle yeah and you've you've been a like a when did you start watching the bachelor oh it was um ashley and jpj no not jpj fuck what's his name

jp jp i was close i haven't met him in person we were like a twitter fence he's been on the podcast yeah he's coming out in the end of summer i look forward to meeting him i yeah and ashley as well i haven't met her but i've heard only yeah good thing so a long time that was my first season i ever watched and have you watched every season since then no it's like hit or miss you know depending like you always start out strong you like, and you kind of check out a little bit, but what are some of your favorite seasons? Obviously Caitlin, big fan. Um,

I enjoyed your season actually. You don't. Maybe. Maybe I'm just saying that. Obviously Caitlin's. I, I, I enjoy Caitlin.

Thanks for the pity compliment. No, no. Uh, I think Caitlin's probably stood out the most to me um ben higgins was probably like my first like bachelor crush for sure so i enjoyed his season but talk to ben today yeah i mean i talked to ben too he's happy he's engaged whatever um and then when did you if ever think about oh that'd be fun to see myself on this show.

Okay, here's the thing. So when I found out it was Matt, I applied and thought it was like, I don't know, take it seriously. Because they want like a video. I'm like, I don't have time to send like an eight-minute video via USB and like mail it in. You know, so I just like, I applied, but then like never did anything else. But because I had like a TikTok, which had like a bunch of videos, I think that's what gave them like the bypass of like oh you don't do a video we've seen what you're like on video and for me i'm 30 and i am technically like on the older side of like the bachelor world so i just never expected like a call it was just kind of like whatever covid let's apply

fuck it and then i got calls after call after call i was like oh my god this is happening and at the time you were i forget what you were doing for work. I was a marketing manager for a bank. Okay. Yeah. Do you like, did you like that? I mean, I've been doing banking for 10 years. In marketing?

Not in marketing, but just like finance in general. Oh. Different positions. So you started in finance? Yeah. Did you go to college? No, I was going to college while working part-time as a teller. And then just kind of worked my way up when I took a break from college. And I think that's how it works. You take a break and

you just like never go back. And just kind of worked your way up through there. That's great. Yeah. Awesome. And did you like it? I loved it. I mean, I never thought I was leaving it. Like again, this whole thing of like where I'm at now is like completely unexpected. How did you like being on Matt's season season it's tough because i thought i knew what to expect but then like you watch it back and you're like oh yeah i stood no chance and then like going through it myself i'm like katie you should have just sent yourself home like i think me and matt were on like on like on good terms and on good pace you know but the bachelor world is so quick you know and so by the time i had my one-on-one with him in the moment i was like oh we're right on track it's fine which is why i was like so blindsided

going home but then like going through it watching it back i'm like katie you stood no chance you stood no chance but so do you regret you regret not sending yourself home versus do you have a problem with how you went home no i mean i mean, I'm okay. Like, I wouldn't change anything. Because, I mean, I'm a big believer in, like, everything happens for a reason. And honestly, like, I'm still almost, like, absorbing it. Like, it all happened so quickly. Like, I was on Matt's season and then I have my own season. It's just, like, I haven't, like, had a breath. I thought it was great.

I mean, I always tell people on that franchise, your best moment is when you get broken up with people don't think that because it feels embarrassing and you're like but that's when everyone's like oh yeah

they deserve better and it's you sometimes forget that and I think if you would have sent yourself home maybe Pim would have been like oh yeah you know

people want you to be grateful for being there so I don't know could have totally been different yeah could have totally been different And I'm like, oh, yeah. You know, people want you to be grateful for being there. So I don't know. Could have totally been different. Could have totally been different. So you applied late in your 20s, early 30s. And so before that, you were working at the bank.

Obviously, you were very open and vulnerable on the date. And I know you talked a lot of it already. So thank you for sharing, by the way. I think sharing those stories bring a lot of great awareness to a topic that's not often talked about uh but just like dating in general obviously you know other guys like what was your biggest dating struggle um if anything and maybe you're just you're happily single or what were some of the other relationships like that you had, and what did you learn from those relationships? Yeah, I think prior, I was dating guys where I would kind of compromise my own personality.

I wanted to be what they wanted me to be, and I was like, I'll do that. Like, I'll be that. A bit of a chameleon. Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, okay, like, let me show you how I can be, like, the perfect girlfriend, the perfect wife. Like, if that's what you need, I'll do it, you know?

And with that, you build, like, this resentment, And you realize there's not actually a connection, you're just trying to force the connection. And that's what I did for a long time, honestly. And did you have how many serious relationships? Did you like what was your longest relationship before? Two and a half years. Yeah, I mean, I almost bought a house with a with a boyfriend. Like I have a very serious dater. I've never been like casual in the dating world. So you're like a good situationship? Yeah.

Like I try to date long term. And if I don't see you as like husband material, like you're gone. Okay. What happened with the one you almost bought a house with? It's like a long story. I don't know. Like we just weren't a good match. He had some things to work on for himself.

I don't know. I've heard these stories. I mean, I don't want to throw him under the bus but like no i'm sure there was i mean i don't i hope if he did anything but bus throwing over we don't want to throw him under the bus yeah yeah um we weren't meant to be it's a short answer do you really believe in everything happens for a reason oh yeah like when you think about like the domino effect of one action i can't imagine like not being with this guy who was a piece of shit honestly but like it led me to like where i'm at right at this very moment you know yeah can you convince me that everything happens for a reason if i don't

believe that you don't believe that no oh my god i think i think everything has an opportunity to work out if you're willing to learn. Interesting. And it's your willingness or lack thereof that will determine your outcome. Because let's be honest, there are different degrees of privilege and fortune in this world. And everything's different. There are circumstances. And I don't think it's necessarily fate that dictates it all i think there are choices involved i mean sure i get that like i guess yeah if you think about it like maybe you believe in fate maybe you don't but i definitely

believe like if i was to redo something it would come up with a different outcome completely so like for where i'm at right now i'm very happy with all the good and the bad that's happened in my life whether that's fate or like everything happens for a reason or like taking opportunity, learning, whatever. I'm very happy with everything that's happened, good or bad. What was the favorite thing an ex-boyfriend ever did for you in a relationship that you bring forward or you want to bring forward? I don't know if you're in a relationship now. Into your current relationships, you know, speaking of, again, we know if you're in a relationship now, into your current relationships. You know, speaking of, again, we talk about like dating is just,

you know, there's always should be a positive takeaway of every relationship because it's not for nothing. You know, you have heartbreak. People go, oh, it's such a waste. No, it's not. You learn so much about yourself. And what are some things, if anything, from past relationships, even if it was like, oh, I never want to talk to that person again, that taught you about yourself and things you want to carry forward that like that was something we did.

I want to keep. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I want to keep anything from these past relationships, but I think the biggest thing I learned and it's made the biggest impact is not changing myself to fit their needs. The last year's relationship I had, he was very, he made fun of me, I think, for like my social media presence. You know, I was very like, I'm very social. I like to engage with online. And, you know, he was just like, not about that. And so during the pandemic, I downloaded TikTok like everyone else and kind of started making videos. I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna be myself. And that's when I like built this like community of people who are

like, I like you. And I realized like, you know know I'm not going to please everybody but there's a good amount of people that are like okay with who I am and that's when I really first started to accept exactly who I am as a woman and that's when all these great things started to happen I love hearing that other than your type yeah what are some things that you feel like people get wrong about you or misunderstand you? Whether it's bachelor nation or even just your life. You always feel like, I don't know why people aren't getting this about me. Is there anything? I mean, it's tough because like on mat season they

they really only got to see like a very small portion of me and so anyone who's like not into me being the bachelor i actually kind of i sympathize with i get it you don't know who i am and so with those people i'm like just watch these episodes you'll get to learn more about me um and so that's the thing like anyone who hasn't watched these episodes and they're still judging i just encourage them to watch these first couple episodes that have already aired. And they'll see a side of me they didn't get to see on that season. And the people who have seen it do get to know me. And they're like, okay, didn't know this about her.

I like this. I can't wait to watch more. What about in life? Is there anything? Like for me, sometimes I, depending on how I act or i can be aloof i can be introverted yeah and as someone who's like six two and walks in their room sometimes that aloof introverted guy is taken for a cocky dick and then i'll be like stay next to chrissy and i'll like or natalie and i'll like i don't know i'll be thinking something and and and they'll be like, stay next to Chrissy or Natalie. And I'll like, I don't know, I'll be thinking of something.

And they'll be like, you did it again. And I'm like, I did? Fuck. And then it like ruined my night. And I'll be like, oh, should I reach out? Oh, my God. And that's been me since high school. Yeah.

Is there anything like that where you feel like uh you just people take you for granted or you feel like you've been taken for granted by just people you've known in walks of life no like i really am just like 100 myself and i think that's what comes across when people are watching these episodes like i'm awkward i'm dorky i'm not like your typical like bachelorette and like people like make fun of me and i like join them in on that like the way i walk for example like the first night like i walked very like power pose did you notice that i don't there's a tiktok about it is there yeah just like i don't okay here's the thing i didn't want to like put my arms flat on my body but like i'm not a pageant girl so i don't know like the

cool way to walk you know but that's the thing i've never thought about it to be honest i don't okay here's the thing i didn't want to like put my arms flat on my body but like i'm not a pageant girl so i don't know like the cool way to walk you know but that's the thing i've never thought about it to be honest i don't maybe i should have been you should watch it it's very like i'm strutting in like aggressively but like i'm just 100 myself in these episodes and i really think that's coming through for people and i think that's why people are like enjoying it because they see pieces of them in it like Like I'm not like this cool girl I'm a little awkward. I'm not like this elegant like pageant queen. Like I'm I fucking suck at walking apparently so There's I mean, I don't know. I think people are learning about me and that's like I think what I'm most excited about

Other than Walking funny other than um walking funny as an insecurity and being truly your authentic self as a strength what are what's something you really like about yourself and have a lot of confidence in and and what's an insecurity you have about yourself that you constantly try to remind yourself to stop it um i think the one thing i i do enjoy about myself is i am very like loving and nurturing and i think that comes across these episodes because i am really getting to know these guys and that's what i think people are going to see is like i'm really opening up to all of them i was never closed off you know no offense to claire but you know like i

was very open to all these men the whole entire time, you know, and that's just my personality. I'm a good listener. I want to get to know them. I want to hear their stories, you know, when it comes to insecurities. Um, I do feel like I don't fully know my worth sometimes. And so I feel like I like, I settle or I go for like a safe route. Sometimes I'm like, Oh, he's safer than like this guy who like really offers a lot but like he's too good for me and so that was something I think I've struggled with a lot but also why this was like a great opportunity of like look there's you know 30 plus guys here for you just own it embrace it and have fun with it hmm so you're you think you're too safe oh you don't consider yourself a risk taker not when it comes to dating like if you

if all my guys were like lined up you you would be like okay first of all there's no type here you know people think they know what my type is and you don't what do you people think your type is i mean they just assume i'd be with us like i don't know a 10 out of 10 and like that sounds like just kind of like the guys i've dated before but what do you mean but i mean that could be anything well okay your type the last guy like i dated not in a serious relationship but he's like this like scrawny irish guy like smaller pants than me and like glasses and people would be like you would never date that guy i'm like oh he was the best sex i've ever had but then like why why yeah i don't know this is great i don't know what specifically we have a lot of people who call in and they are you know

i get a lot of questions of the questions dick can be like i need to spice things up how do i do it what was he getting right there are people we have a great male audience that like sometimes need some notes and i'm just wondering if if there is a reason why specifically was he was he a ginger he was a ginger the gingers will surprise you. Yeah. I'm telling you. Big dick energy, let me tell you. Is there any specific? The gingers will surprise you. So they just have really big dicks?

He did have a big dick. But it was more than that. It was like he... He'd communicate. We were very much on the same page. He took care of my needs first, which I think is very important. He was a giver.

He was present. Gingers have decent dicks, but they're is very important. He was a giver. He was present. Gingers like have decent dicks, but they're also good emotionally. Like they're really nice guys. Yeah. The ginger. It's a good combo. They don't get enough credit.

Yeah. I love a good ginger. You'll get no ginger hate from me. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What happened with the ginger? I feel like we should also stop saying the ginger i mean he was like this irish guy we were just very much on different pages in terms

of like life goals you know like i'm like again i date very seriously and if i can't see you as a husband i'm not gonna waste our time and so like for me vacation for example i love sitting by the beach drinking and just relaxing in the sun. He thought like fish were gross. He thought sand was gross. He doesn't know how to swim. I'm like, how are we supposed to go on vacation together? Like this is going to suck. All you can do is fuck.

What am I supposed to do with you? I mean, it's not a bad thing, but like, come on. You're fucking useless if we're not having sex. Describe to me the perfect gift you could receive from a partner. Ooh. I see. I'm not a materialistic thing like when i think like the five love that you are yeah um like a vacate like a memory like a vacation a memory something that's like no one can take away from you i guess i love it that she was like i'm not material i don't need much well a vacation okay i know okay that maybe's just like a memory, though.

You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I don't want like a jewelry or clothes. You should expect a vacation. That's fine. I'm just giving you shit. Memories. I want memories. Memories.

Okay. Do you have a favorite destination trip? Were you bummed that you couldn't travel? Not really. Really? I mean, I don't want to be blinded by like the excitement of like all these cool places and and also like i've heard like the turnaround time from traveling to like filming again it's like a lot but the price it's i'm okay with it i really

am like fall in love with me like on a picnic in new mexico and not like in like hawaii i will say i will agree 100 that the dates they're forced to have as a result of being stuck in one place. It's our ones better served to actually forming relationships than the ones that they often have that are just more fun to watch. Yeah. Back to like where you would want to travel or where you're going to maybe start traveling with your new fiance now that you're vaccinated and people are

traveling and where would you like to go with anyone you would be potentially in a relationship with? I mean, it's tough because I, I don't want to like say too much, but like wherever, like we want to, if we want to,

there's a way, well, I mean, if there is, where would you like to try? No, I'm just, I'm just happy to get out of the States, wherever, at this point.

I've tried to plan vacations several times in this last year with the pandemic canceling my flights over and over again. All right. Katie, you can go anywhere in the world, free trip, you're leaving tonight, where are you going? Maybe Thailand. Thailand. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. Great. Just wanted to know. yeah great just wanted to know yeah wanted to know look i'm from seattle so like anywhere warm is like okay like you want to send me to like mazatlan mexico fine i'll go i just want to get out in the the warmth you like warmer climates well yeah i don't know washington is like cold and rainy so it's like any even even like southern california sounds all right as a vacation for me okay um you mentioned i don't know if it was i don't think it was last week or the week earlier on the show uh that you haven't

really decided or caught or at least okay with either in terms of having a child or not and i think that's i don't know i know it's been talked about a bit but uh it's very unique in some of your position to show that's traditionally been very conservative with people who have been casted and as someone who desperately wants to be a father like i want to be a father but as there are a lot of stigmas and pressures applied to uh you general for being for like motherhood or what the expectation is. And did you first of all, I think that was really cool that you said that and that you haven't decided. Is that something that was important for you to people to know? Do you feel a pressure or is that just a casual thing or or you get what i'm

saying yeah i think uh society makes it a pressure for sure but i'm at a point where i'm like i don't fucking care you know like the world is kind of going to shit so there is this contemplation of like do i bring a child into this world that's like dying do i adopt because there's so many children who like need a home or do I just not have children and use my time and energy to like make the world a better place for those future children you know and so for me I am just like kind of undecided you know like I'm not like convinced one way or the other which is why like when I mentioned to Michael A like he had a son I was like you know if Michael was like oh I don't I don't want any more kids I have a son that's okay to me you know

if someone's like I don't want kids that's also okay to oh, I don't want any more kids. I have a son. That's okay to me. You know, if someone's like, I don't want kids, that's also okay to me. So I don't really lean one way or the other. I think my passions are towards other things. I think obviously being a mother, it changes your perspective, but that's not something I am. So for me at this moment, I'm just like, meh, whatever. That's great. How has the response been from Bachelor Nation, if anything at all?

Did you get people who noticed that as well? I know some of my friends, you know, Emma and Claire, I know, noticed it. And just how has the response been? I think people feel seen because there is this stigma of like and I'll be the first to admit, like I used to judge women who are like, I don't want kids. And you're like, what the fuck's wrong with you? You know, like that's your goal. That's your purpose in life. You know, but the older I got, the more I was like, fuck that. Like I have nieces and nephews. I'm good, you know? And so I feel like just being

able to speak my truth and having these women feel like seen in their truth as well. It was just kind of, I didn't realize it in the moment until like, you know, going on Twitter, people like, yes, that's me too. You know, that people are feeling the same way, especially in this new era that we are in. What is next for you? I mean, what are your, what are some of your goals? What do you want to do with this platform? It is a platform. Absolutely. And in a perfect world, what are some things that you would be interested in doing? Yeah, for me, I like, it's such a powerful tool, right? And so you want to do good with it for me. And so like the one thing I've already started doing is after that, um, you know, group date where sexual assault was talked about, I actually

started a Facebook group called calm, which is creating a lovely masterpiece and all these, um, it's a Facebook group. It's a Facebook group. Yeah. Should we repeat that again? Uh, C A L M. So C dot a dot L dotm and all these men and women come forward and share their stories and kind of support each other um so you know that's something that i've already started doing that i'm like okay i feel like i'm i'm putting back good energy into the world and making this world a better place honestly um the other thing i think is kind of unique is a lot of people have messaged me since obviously my entrance on Matt's season about like they've since purchased their first sex toy. And I'm like, I want to like make that a fun thing for women like I don't or men.

I don't want to be like this taboo thing. Like I want to make it like fun and exciting and encourage people to do that. Because if you think about it, think of like, I don't know, teen pregnancies going down, women having healthier relationships with themselves their relationships by knowing what they like, what they don't. And so ultimately, it's just like doing better for the world, putting in a lot of positivity in the world in whatever way that I can. So maybe it's like a sex toy line. I don't know. I don't even know if it's a sex toy line or like a website. It's like a survey that's like, take this, you know, fun. Like it's very fun and bright and exciting. You're allowed to try to make money no i get that but like i don't like almost like like maybe referring

them to like different toys like based on the survey like i just wanted to be like inviting and fun and not like so like taboo and like dark i want to be like a cosmo survey we're very sex positive toy that's toy positive toy positive we're love toys. I'm not trying to correct that. Yeah. We do get a lot of questions on this podcast and on my questions with Nick. For women who are nervous or struggling with introducing a sex toy into the bedroom, do you have any advice for the women out there? Have you tried to suggest this in the bedroom with a guy someone who's sex toy positive

and how would what advice would you give to women to potentially do that with their partners i think people build it up bigger than they should be i think in their head they're like oh this is gonna be so awkward he's gonna be mad whatever but like if you just have the conversation it's not that big of a deal you know if anything and correct me if I'm wrong, but these guys are like, yeah, anything that helps me get you off, they're excited to do. Yeah. I agree. I mean, I think the biggest thing is men can be overly sensitive.

Just compliment guys all the time and, yeah, let them know. It'll help them. I also think that if they act poorly, that might be a good indicator that you shouldn't move forward with anything with them. I mean, it's bad news to hear if you're married to the guy. But it would be a red flag. And even if you are, I would suggest that even if you are married to this person, that's something you should not ignore and maybe address it in therapy or talk about. Because it should be okay to

have these conversations and relationships i mean the sexual experience is supposed to be fun for both partners however you get there together and that's the thing i think people need to remember is like it's not about like oh you can't like satisfy me it's just like we are just partaking in this activity together however we can enjoy it together and that's just going to be healthier long term than like if he's so insecure like oh, oh, you can only get off on this. Like, you know, I don't think it's like cockering, you know, then he's like, oh, I'm not into this, you know. But what's important is like enjoying an activity together, both being satisfied together. If you're doing it together, then like there shouldn't be a problem.

Have you ever had your heart broken? Oh, a thousand times. A thousand? I mean, OK, that's dramatic. But yeah, of course I've had your heart broken oh a thousand times a thousand i mean okay that's dramatic but yeah of course i've had my heart broken on the season i've had my heart broken spoiler alert okay note time note that chrissy you had your heart broken on this season oh yeah i think that's a profound statement i don't know if every lead has unless unless you're lying did you not see her in the super tease crying in the court you're running away saying get my flight it's very obvious i don't i don't think it was talking the super tease yeah uh but i do put stock in katie's word the super tease not so much

yeah but yeah that's not nothing yeah I think there's a lot of sadness that leads have and I think there's a lot but so

just to confirm yes you felt legitimate heartbreak on this season your heart was broken you woke up the next day

yes and and that we all know this feeling when our heart's broken of you wake up and for like a half a second you feel okay and then you realize how fucking shitty your existence is and your body swells up with anxiety starting at your toes and you're just like fuck my heart is broken oh Oh my God. Am I wrong? If you've had your heart broken,

you know exactly what I mean. And you're fine and it's all like, but that's how you feel. No, I get it. That's very intense and accurate, but yes. Can you, can that happen? Yes. Okay, wow.

I know. It's tough being the lead. People don't realize that. Like, did you have fun? I'm like, fuck no, I didn't have fun. Soreg left and now she's with blake i didn't say that he's trying he's trying michael had to leave to go home to his kid to go home to his kid look i got great guys so you could only imagine like sending these great guys home was very you do seem to have nice guys i i i said that for me watching it and having been there michael's the only one so far that i can see that he is truly falling in love unexpectedly and he can't believe

what's going on and and and that's why he's touching his face and he's just awkward and he's just like, this is fucking bizarre. And like, what is going on? And so far, you know, Andrew S and Greg, they all seem to really like you and Connor. But Michael's the only one so far

that I'm just like, and I know that look, you know, and he's just like, oh, what the fuck? And I'm wondering if, and I know that look, you know, and he's just like, oh, what the fuck? And I'm wondering if you agree with that. Am I reading that correctly? Yeah, I think so. I mean, he has a kid.

So like for him to choose to be there, he really thinks it's worth it. He's there for me. He knows that every week he's spending with me is one week less with his son, James. So yeah, I think that's a fair statement for sure okay what else do we want he's like trying to like analyze my face don't analyze that little don't you have a little grin there michael's great they're all great honestly like i just i

feel so blessed honestly yeah i you know someone who's been in her shoes like i i felt like so fondly of rachel Raven and Corinne. Like you definitely form a bond. Yeah. Even with the people you don't pick. I just had like, again, you go through such a crazy experience that you're just like, we did this, you know, we all did this. It's trauma bonding in a way.

Yeah, 100%. And it really is. And I, you know, for a lot of reasons, like I still like have a lot of respect for those women. And so the grinning and thinking fondly of these guys, I totally get it. And it doesn't mean necessarily anything. Yeah. Maybe everything.

Who knows? Tune in Monday night. We'll find out. Amanda, you had a question for Katie. Yeah. If one of your best friends was like, I pulled a Katie, what would they be talking about? Like what would they have done? Oh question oh god um hmm maybe like made out with

two guys in one night honestly that's called a katie i mean that's like wrong not like i did that one time tuesday i mean i don't know it's either that or like... Have you met Amanda? Absolutely no judgment. Amanda's like, please, amateur hour. Have you dated two couples this weekend? Oh my God. Let's go out. The bars are open now, right?

Let's go. Katie, let's go. Great question. Great question. Great answer. Better answer. Much better answer. Great question. Open floor to questions for Katie.

Another old faithful is what Halloween costume are you most proud of? Oh, let me tell you. It was a Tinkerbell costume, okay? And it was like tulle with like built-in like little lights. I made it myself and this cute little bra. But here's the thing, I want to tell you about this story. So I was supposed to go to like an EDM concert. So it was like the 31st and November 1st, like a two-day thing.

So I'm in my costume for November 1st of this concert. The concert gets canceled, but we're like, we've already like drank. We're like buzzing. We're in our costume. We're like, shit, what do we do? Like, let's go to a restaurant. So we go to like a Thai restaurant, like a family Thai restaurant. I'm in like a bra and a tutu walking in this Thai restaurant on November 1st.

Drunk. Don't give a shit. But it's honestly like my favorite costume. I never got to even like wear it out except to this Thai restaurant. I love it. I have a Peter Pan pan tattoo so i love all things peter pan yes do you have any tattoos no tattoos i fucking hate needles or covet tests is edm your music of choice no like early on it was but like i also don't do drugs and i think

you have to like do drugs to fully enjoy like an edm concert and so like that's why i went like one of the two nights because like i'll drink coffee and like see if i can hang but what's your drink of choice i mean i'm drinking like whiskey on the rocks right now it just depends like i'm a little bit of everything alcohol is a drug i mean that's true that's fair i just think it's important for people to know that that's fair for anyone who wants to drudge i'll give you that any participation and other types i i'm all for it like washington like marijuana is like legal so like you know whatever do you believe in girl code that's a good question um yeah do you think you're a girl's girl or a guy's girl i think i definitely get along with guys more but i definitely

believe in girl code what's girl code kersi well girl code is like if your best friend is dating someone you don't i mean we get these calls all the time yeah you don't like go out with your even girl code what's girl code kersi well girl code is like if your best friend is dating someone you don't i mean we get these calls all the time yeah you don't like go out with your best friend's like ex kind of thing or you don't like hook up with like one of your friends other guys while they're dating them you know just like isn't that like person people code it's like it is but like it's like female specific like within female community like what is your obligation to other women particularly those who you are like who are close in your life? To be fair, I did tell I won't say like the names, but some women who may or may not be

on Paradise, like fair game. Go for it. With my exes. Yeah, because they ask. Yeah, I'm like, like girl code. Go for it. Wait, you don't think that they actually have to ask? And thank you for clarifying.

No, they don't have to. But that's like a girl just being like, you know. It's a good conversation. Like Tasia being like, go for it. All of the guys are like maybe like the guy who is like fourth runner up. Like probably like I would say Connor B. I mean, I will say I think there are like a few that I'm like probably off limits for like 12 months. say i think there are like a few that i'm like probably off limits for like 12 months do you think is sex going to be that big of a conversation on your season going forward i i want to before you answer i'm gonna guess no because it's usually the other opposite it's they don't make sex a big

part of the conversation when people are more comfortable talking about sex it's more when you're a virgin and i don't think think Mike's going to be your top three. Mike might surprise you. Might surprise me. That's all I'm going to say to that. But, perfect. Magic Mike. Hey.

I mean, that. He's just waiting for marriage. If we get engaged, I mean. He will be like such a giver. Oh, yes. He also is going to come with great expectations. And he's been saving up for someone. Oh.

Look, just because he hasn't had sex doesn't mean he hasn't done other things. That's all I'm going to say to that. Mike has been, well, and Mike is a baseball player. So he gets a lot of triples. I mean, he's done some things. I can't with that some things i can't with this i know i can't believe you just said this you know or this you oh i do i just i know i'm not i'm not confirming or denying that i experienced it but i do know you saw him eat

that twinkie and you were just like something about it twitter blew up over that i can't even like quote some of the things they said i mean the guy doesn't eat carbs or have sex and i'm just wondering he's a gym owner he's hot how does he have fun i don't he is a good looking guy he's hot who who are your four hottest guys oh my god i can't i don't they're all like really hot but you walk into a bar it's friday night you're not on the bachelorette okay yeah you're like three yeah whiskeys deep who other than thomas because like let's be honest whatever you think about thomas total bait so not thomas okay because thomas was gonna be like the obvious choice for me he has like huge hands no like i hello yeah i i you can't deny his sexual appeal you have to give him credit okay uh but of the men who are left or or other than thomas i'll leave it other than thomas because got it okay okay well

um andrew s definitely okay yeah um i will say michael a is like this like underdog that I think Michael A the dad oh Mike oh no Michael Michael A sorry Michael the A threw me off I say Michael A dad

where's Mike Mike P Mike penis hasn't been used he grew a beard yeah Michael A is from Ohio okay but he grew a beard

see that's the difference game changer for him like the first night like clean shave I was like he's cute but then like the beard was like damn daddy okay did you think that way about uh matt's beard i don't even know what to say about matt's beard right now it's it needs some help there's like things hiding and i feel like on it's like it needs to be like some shaped something it's nasty i'm just gonna say i'm just

but on michael the beard's hot yeah i haven't seen i i noticed this episode it seems he's like ah fuck it i'm gonna grow a beard and it sounds like it's a very serious beard michael can grow a beard that might that's like a five like i think michael has like a real thick beard yeah it seems like i never saw it the way it is now. But like on the show, like that five o'clock shadow look, it's like. Guys, do we think she's avoiding mentioning Greg? Like how hot he is? I wasn't done.

I said two people. I was going to say Greg and Blake as well. But I wonder like how calculated she was with her order. I mean, you're overthinking it. Just like Twitter does. Everyone overthinks everything. How about if we ask her about tall people? people well yeah listen do you prefer the talls i mean thomas was like very tall and it was like it was nice to just feel like this little like i could say do you like do you

like that yeah is it like some shorter women like the really tall men and you're i'm like can i call you short yeah i totally i am okay you, at this point, I don't know. Yeah. Not to be like TMI, but like... Do you like tall men? Yeah, like a guy can pick you up and just like, you know? You feel small. You feel like he can own you.

I mean, I don't even know how tall Greg is, to be honest. Let me think about it. I don't know. Yeah. He's no Thomas, that's for sure. That wasn't shade. Thomas is like a giant. A giant. I was wearing, he's no Thomas. That's for sure. That wasn't shade. That's just Thomas is like a giant, a giant.

I was wearing heels on this last episode. Who to be clear, you think people should be warned about Thomas? I mean, yeah, like he's hot, but like red flags everywhere. But like if he's in a Calvin Klein ad,

that's fine. Like buy the underwear. Sure. But like, I'm sure don't marry him though. Don't take it off of him. I'm predicting a common redemption story i'm paranoid you could have a calvin ad that's like i'm shitty to trey in

my calvins i just want to point out not to belabor a point but thomas was the only one who didn't lie last episode but he might still be a shitty i mean i think it was just all in his like delivery he made it sound like he's definitely doesn't do himself any favors by saying things he like he's like i said he's trying to sound how michael feels authentically yeah i i don't know thomas i just if he ends up on paradise whoever he's with like good luck girl that's all i'm gonna say okay i'll remember that i'm sure he'll be there can you promise me you will tweet it good luck girl a thousand percent i have no filter have we not learned this yet i appreciate it i just when you tweet it i'm uh you heard it here first um do we have any other questions before we get into do you know me with Katie

no I'm excited for do you know me all right Katie I want to thank you so far for your honesty and authenticity it's been a really fun and delightful interview and as as I think of you as the best you've been a fantastic interview so thank you thank you we're gonna play one little game with you before we let you go if that's okay oh god okay it's real simple it's called do you know me we're going to guess if we know katie okay so i'm gonna ask you a question does katie this has katie ever done that etc etc and we're gonna guess okay and then you're gonna tell us who's right simple yes or no's okay all right fine anecdotal stories are welcomed. Okay.

But not expected. I'm here for it. Question number one. Has Katie ever changed a flat tire? Heck yeah. I believe she can. I believe she'd be willing

to face the challenge. The question is, has she? Because she might like be more than fine pumping her gas, but like if someone wants to pump her gas,

would she let them pump her gas? But her dad did so many outdoor things. I feel like her dad probably taught her about changing her tire. I bet her dad had her covered. I bet she's done it. No, I'm going to say she has. I'm going to say no,

because there's no shame in not having done it. Yeah, there's no shame. That's what I'm saying. I feel like she can, but do people usually get flat tires? Is that like a thing that happens? I've experienced such an event. I mean, I don't...

New cars over here. I know you just graduated from college and you got great parents and all, but... I'm just like, do people drive down the road and suddenly there's a flat tire? I've just never experienced it. Oh, it happened.

Yes. It's so scary. I don't know. Maybe it was like something in the movies. is looking at amanda with such i mean you both have your highs and lows on this show but like it's definitely a low for ali if i answer now uh yeah so yes you have yes you have no and she doesn't even believe it's a thing. Flat tires don't exist. I mean, I'll be honest. I haven't experienced a flat tire. Therefore, I have not had to change a flat tire.

Katie and I will be hanging out after this. No one else is invited. Thank you. That wasn't what you said. I should have gone with my gut. I want honesty here. Oh, God. Has Katie ever muted one of their friends on Instagram or Twitter without their knowledge, I'm going to add, or with their knowledge?

But have you ever muted one of your friends because you're just like, you fucking are so annoying. But I don't want to deal with the hassle of unfollowing you. Yes. 100%. Yeah. so annoying but like i don't want to deal with the hassle of unfollowing you yes 100 yeah yeah i feel like everyone has absolutely do what you got to do for your mental health mute those people who i can't say her name is it becky we've cut it in half we We know it's a girl. No, there's one that came to mind. I was like, I can't handle. You are too much. She's a great girl. Has Katie given someone in the middle finger in the last two weeks? No.

No. Yes. A casual middle finger. She's done it for sure. But two weeks? Yeah. I'm going with yes. I'm going with yes. I'm going with yes.

I have not. I don't believe in the middle finger. Look, I'm like a public figure now. I have to be like extra polite. If anyone sees me flipping them off, like it'll like make all the fucking media outlets. Katie's a bitch. She flipped me off and everyone will pick it up.

I can't. You can do. What is it? The title of this episode will be I'm a public figure now. No, it's just it's very different. like everyone's like watching you under a microscope does katie know the rules of chess no yes yeah i mean all the rules and i i don't i'm gonna go with all the rules she was taught that when she was little and she's kind of forgot that.

If I was a chess player, could I sit down with Katie and be like, let's play some chess. She'd be like, great, let's play. And we would just play. I'm going to say no.

I also want to point out it's okay to not know. You're saying it's like, we're not chess gaming. How could you say that about her? Women in STEM. What are you saying? Women can't play chess

and they only play checkers? You're right. I know nothing about chess, but I know everything about poker. Chess is so boring. I mean, Queen's Gambit, great show.

I haven't watched it. I hear it's fantastic. You haven't watched it? You should. I know. I'm scared. Look at his face. Has Katie ever given a lap dance well done i mean i'm gonna pick these questions not me nick whenever there's a sexual one he always be i think this is very

important with certain guests that i point out that i didn't fucking select these okay it's very important um needless to say have you we don't guess I just answered oh you want me to go straight to the answer yeah yeah on some form to a boyfriend in a private setting yeah and playful

I'm gonna say no like a full-on lap dance no was she gonna give a friend a lap dance did she have to I was gonna say like to a girlfriend

as a joke did she have to receive any currency to make it a lap dance no oh god no I wish more than joy

like a pregame I don't enjoy. Like a pregame on your sister. Yeah, that's like shit that happens. Girls night out. Yeah, exactly. Chrissy and I went right to the friend zone.

Because if you're like dating someone and they walk up to you and they're like, hey, is that a lap dance? Wait, can you do that again, please? Hey. Is Natalie here yet?

That was very Chandler of you. That was very cute. Also, the answer is no. I'm like a horrible dancer. So like the sex appeal drops if I try to do that. I just don't. What did I say? No.

I was too distracted by you. So you're a Chandler dancer and she's an Elaine dancer. That would be fun. Actually, I've been called out for an Elaine dancer before. So this isn't the first time I've heard this. Yeah. Yes. Can Katie name four countries in Africa?

I think you can do it. I think you can do it. That's a no. I think you can do it. My first thought was I can't. But I know I can. It's so easy. It's four.

Give it a shot. I believe in you. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's start with an easy one it's easy yeah i actually have to i thought it was like a yes or no because i just want to say no no you have to try oh my god you can do this i know you can oh my god this is let's go with the obvious one this is where i drop uh it's the obvious okay don't don't judge me no way south africa right

ding ding ding ding ding we got one well one all right now you got some confidence going oh shit there's a popular disney show named after another one it's a movie it's a movie little animals pyramids uh that's a different answer but also yes i just want to make sure we're on the same page yeah ellie and i know we're talking about. I like hate this right now. Didn't you ever watch Carmen Sandiego or am I dating myself? Yes, I loved Carmen Sandiego. Same age maybe?

But you're one of the person older than you said that. Oh my, I just, I can't. I don't want to do this. Madagascar, Egypt, Sudan, Kenya, Congo, Algeria. My mind is blown right now. Here's the thing. I'm very sheltered in my Washington life for the last 30 years. I need to get out more.

All right. I'm sorry. She's got to get out of the U.S., guys. She said it. She's got to leave. I'm trying to explore Africa and find all these countries. You need to go to YouTube and Google where in the world is Carmen San Diego. San Diego, yeah. Oh, my God. carmen san diego geography not my forte can katie recite a poem it was worth the ask just in case you could um no i'm gonna say no i think a short one i feel like she could rap like a boss

like give her a rap like it's I would agree yeah I bet get her a bridge to something like have her go at it

do you have a favorite rap karaoke song I mean and we're right on the no poem okay I can't recite like a popular poem

but I am poetic which I will say you might see in upcoming episodes so yeah that's a great tease not as good as you've had your heart broken okay that was just very obvious in the teaser but like edgar allen poe like he's coming up okay so i'm gonna say oh you little raven all right one more like the same thing one more blackbirds feathers has katie ever cut her own

hair i think as a child you definitely at some point tried yes we all like did something to quarantine i feel like yeah yeah like the bangs always the bangs are a thing what's your own bag what's one fashion thing you asked me about fashion but anything that like was a tattoo or something where you're just like i'm probably never gonna do this but like rebellious me like i've imagined me like going to this event or doing this crazy thing. And if you had like an alter ego, like what would that look like? Oh man.

Okay. I will say I did a photo shoot the other week where it was like, I was like, do whatever you want. Like just, I'm your subject. And it was very like bright neons, like swimsuit,

lime green, like jacket. I haven't posted them yet, but I'm really excited. But I'm like, I'm such a plain Jane. I really am. I'm like your very average green like jacket i haven't posted them yet but i'm really excited but i'm like i'm such a plain jane i really am i'm like your very average like brunette girl which is why i don't think i get noticed in public and so um just anything that's just like i don't know cool anything fashionable is not me so i'm like let's do it last question and then we'll let you go what are five movies it popular on Twitter. What are five movies you're confident you've seen at least 10 times?

Oh, Lion King, for sure. The animated or the... Animated. The remake is bullshit. No idea about Africa. I know. It's my favorite movie though. Okay.

The Help. Mean Girls. Aladdin. A lot of kid movies here. Disney star. I know, I know. I'm trying to think of like... Do you have a lot of babysitters?

Oh, Superbad. Superbad, definitely. Superbad. Yeah. Those are just the first five that came to mind. That's when you know it's a good movie though is when you've seen it more than once. Maybe more than three times.

You're like, that's a good movie. You can learn a little bit about a person with their movies. Katie, it's been an absolute pleasure thank you so much thank you for being so honest about who you are

in this season any parting thoughts or words you want to share with your with our audience about what we can expect

learn or really anything the floor is yours I mean expect the unexpected honestly like it's it's gonna be a wild ride for sure do you think or really anything, the floor is yours. I mean, expect the unexpected, honestly. Like it's going to be a wild ride for sure. Do you think we'll cry?

You know, the emotional episodes were pretty early on. So I don't know that they're going to be as intense as they have been. But you might. Happy tears, sad tears. Do you think there's any other villains to reveal themselves? Absolutely. More than one?

I mean, I gotta think through the guys. Anyone worse than Thomas? Yes. Yep, he's there. Is it Hunter? The air got sucked out of all three of you at once. It was so funny. She literally was just like, no one listening date Thomas.

And someone's worse than Thomas. Look, I try to get rid of the villains. I try to get rid of them. Boom, boom, boom, go. And then they just keep reappearing. So there's always a villain. It's like a whack-a-mole. It just keeps

popping up exactly i can't escape it all right smile for my instagram it's a video oh shit okay well there we go you're fine with that oh yeah that's perfect uh katie thank you so much we really appreciate you uh congrats good luck whatever you uh deserve we really have been having fun watching you and um that's it thanks for listening guys uh we do appreciate you tuning in again uh if you're new to this show, be sure to check out our Monday Ask Nick's, our Tuesday recaps, and subscribe. Five-star reviews are always appreciated. Other than that, what's next week? Oh, I'm also recapping The Bachelor with my girlfriend, Natalie.

I don't know if that's interesting to anyone. But, yeah. See you next time. Bye. Bye.