The Viall Files - E290 The Bachelorette Recap With MAX

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

Today we are recapping The Bachelorette with recording artist MAX who was on this weeks episode, and after a week of living on the same floor with the guys he has some amazing behind the scenes tea that we could not get enough of. Nick and MAX get into Connor’s exit, Justin & Katie’s chemistry in person, Hunter's fall from grace, and perhaps answer some of MAX's fan boy questions.  We have an in depth breakdown for you so don’t miss a minute of it.  MAX's new song "Butterflies" with Ali Gatie is out now, catch him on his headline tour this fall. “The vibe was Greg.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today! Don't forget to nominate The Viall Files for a People's Choice Podcast Award: https://www.podcastawards.com/ THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Wondery - Even The Rich: Listen to the latest season of Even The Rich: The Making of Madonna on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Wondery…Feel the Story. UNTUCKit: http://www.UNTUCKit.com/VIALL for 20% off your first purchase  Rothy’s: http://www.rothys.com/VIALL Through August 1st, 2021, you can get $20 off your first purchase of $100 Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @maxmusic See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another bachelorette breakdown recap i don't know whatever you want to call it we are back bringing you the most analytical insights to Katie's season of The Bachelorette. And we have a fantastic episode for you today. The one and only Max is our guest today to help us break down. Not only is he on this episode as the musical performer for Justin and Katie's one-on-one date, but he is a longtime Bachelor fan who has some great insight and a critical eye as well as some behind the scenes information on uh well at least katie and and justin's date so max is with us breaking it down max how you doing dude i'm great i i actually lived there for a week so i have so much insight

i feel like i saw all this stuff you're probably excited to dig in. It was a dream. Well, we can't wait to jump into that. Before we do that, just a couple of reminders. Why don't you go ahead and vote for the Vile Files for the podcast awards? And if you want, me as the top male host, there's a link in our episode description. I have it on my social. We always appreciate you guys taking the time. It means a lot, obviously, to me and everyone who works on

this show. Can't thank you enough. And it's really up to you guys to nominate the Vile Files. So hopefully you will find us worthy. And if you want to, you can go ahead and nominate us and then you can vote for us if we get nominated. It's a whole thing. But thank you so much for the people who have nominated us. And if you haven't

just go come on like don't make me beg um uh on wednesday the legendary steve-o is with us and uh chrissy says it's one of her favorite episodes it's one of my favorite episodes we've ever done it was so he's so insightful and inspirational it was like not what i expected for somebody who puts his face on fire uh steve is a legend um if you ever watched jackass he's been in the biz so to speak for a long time and we have a great conversation with him so be sure to check that out uh on wednesday i don't know what day you're listening to this and as always go back and check out our Ask Nick episodes that drop every Monday for all your relationship stories, insights, just relatable content.

If you find yourself either struggling with your own bullshit or you just want to hear other people's so you can feel better about yourself, which is either way, we don't care why you listen to us. We just want you to download it. Live your best life. Yeah. Anything else that we're missing before we get into you did a good job thank you plus all right let's let's get going max welcome thanks man did we i i want to dive into this but i want to figure out this too were you we met at the

iheart award we did right that was yeah okay it was i was uh i had recently discovered you as an artist uh a little bit about myself is uh i can't sing i don't know if you got everything else so thank you i don't but thank you um and singing is what like i like being good at things and and so when things i'm not good at i i'm quite fascinated by people who are good at that and one thing i do is almost like a meditation thing is when i listen to music especially if i hear a talented male vocal artist i will fantasize what it'd be like to have their voice and you are someone who is in that very small rolodex of male voices that if in my fantasy world of if i woke up one day and had a singing voice it would be yours nick baby let's do this we're here uh and so i saw you at the our heart music awards i'm like that's the guy's voice

i i want like i want you know like i was like evil i was like ursula the little mermaid being like how do i steal this motherfucker's voice and uh and then i i i said hello and and uh yeah it was a really hot hot day it was uh you guys got done performing i was like hey man i think you're you're great so yes i i vividly remember that was i heart and uh thank you for allowing me to say hello. It was an honor. And I had not watched the show then. So I did a reverse fanboy because over quarantine, I watched a lot of the... I hyper binged The Bachelor. Did you really? I had never seen the show.

And the going thing is that I watched 23 seasons. No way. Which is insane. Wow. We all know how long they are. Some were recap seasons, whatever else. But I went through all of yours. So it was like, I remember that time. I was like, like oh my god i didn't even realize how big of a moment

that was from my life until like years later and holy shit nick is awesome yeah anyway so it was really cute and then the other day i'm getting a new car from my family but i was in like this really shitty honda and it was super dirty and you were running in my neighborhood and we kind of made eye contact but i was like we hadn't know we were gonna do this and you we kind of saw each other i was like i'm not gonna say hello neighborhood. And we kind of made eye contact, but I was like, we hadn't known we were going to do this. And we kind of saw each other. I was like, I'm not going to say hello, and I'm also kind of embarrassed in my super dirty car. I did not realize that was me, right?

I'm glad, but now you did. We must be neighbors, because I don't go on that long of runs. There you go. You get spotted running a lot, though. I feel like we get a lot of those. I have a route, a route, a route, and it's it's like three miles it's just a big circle boom so now we got that out of the way let's get into the bachelor i just had to get those things oh yeah real quick sorry to the

audience we just had to you know fanboy real quick thank you thank you for indulging let's dig in us um super fucking weird episode other than max you were the highlight of it just but it was right i kind of loved it i thought it was great i thought it was one of the best weird weird though they went on it i i was it was definitely out there but that's what i appreciate it needed some excitement this season i feel like because we live in a hotel for it there's just not as much as our usual times yeah no it did so like well they start off by katie taisha and caitlin yes i guess just like catching up you know girl talk and was it like it sincerely seemed like katie just like had this idea. Like they were talking about whatever.

Like, hey, tell me about this week. Are you falling in love? Like, how's it going? Who do you like see yourself marrying in a couple of weeks? And she's like, hey, guys, I have an idea. Have you ever watched Seinfeld? Should we ask the guys not to jerk off? Masturbate?

I don't know. And then like apparently because it's a, know I don't I'm trying to figure out it having been on that show like I'm I immediately thought about like how that conversation happened like okay so if it was Katie's idea was Katie

self-aware to be like this is ABC Disney and I want them to use it so I'm going to speak in like very vague cryptic metaphors or, or to Katie was just like, can we make the guys not masturbate? And then the producers were like,

what a fun idea. But like, you can't say masturbate on ABC. I bet it's the latter. Yeah. But we want to use this. This is fun. Let's,

let's go for it. Yeah. It was was it was just really weird and i it was just like what's what's the point and they opened the episode is this you know they always have like metaphors on dates like we're on a this is an obstacle course and we're gonna learn how we're compatible while you like eat twinkies because fun is important in relationships but there was no really metaphor attached it was just more like what what do you eat what do we think Katie's purpose behind other than like I she's a Seinfeld fan I think that's fair to say was she trying to see which guys could like hold out for her?

I think that like, which guy's going to tell her? Yeah. Yeah. So I've been, I've been abstaining for the last month. Like you asked. And I don't know.

I feel like, I feel like she, for one, I feel what I will say about her in the season. I think she's really thriving through her season. Like she's just soaking up that this is her time, which I appreciate. That's an excellent point.

Katie is enjoying being the bachelorette. It might've been a producer thing. I think it was her idea. You think so? I really do. Yeah. And in fact, I've seen Katie tweet about it because of the,

and it seems like it's her idea. Yeah. Also because it didn't seem to, it seemed to have no home. Right. They literally are just like don't masturbate yeah and then i immediately i'm always just like because you know it's the bachelor and you have a bachelor and bachelorette i'm just can you imagine the bachelor coming like i just ladies don't click on the mouse this week like don't no no bad thank you like could you

imagine if the if the bachelor did that it would be insane it would be insane it would be insane and all it's going to be and again we're always recapping this before you know we see it twitter things about the episode my guess is people will just find it to be like nonsensical and goofy and weird yeah and could you imagine ben higgins walking in and be like hey listen i don't know if you guys know this, but like my storyline is like, I feel like unlovable and I need to know that you can abstain from self gratification.

So please don't like no, no vibrations this week. No good vibes, good vibes only, but no, could you imagine like yeah yeah no i don't think i didn't think about it that way yeah for me as a viewer i was just like oh this is a cheeky moment and you know like i don't think a lot of the guys are gonna follow it it didn't really seem very serious so it just felt like oh you know too hot to handle is also on and we gotta like yeah we gotta get a little juicy spice in this season do you think that's what it is do you think you do you see the bachelor trying to compete now that they've starting to have competition when it comes to the reality tv

dating space i think that happens in a lot of things with network versus you know the world of netflix and all these places now that that just like go balls to the wall and do whatever they want and people who love that kind of reality tv are are craving that they want no boundaries so you know the loyal fans the bachelor nation are are more like they're they're in this they're watching but yeah with that competition i do think there's sometimes little moments where it's like well we got to give a little spice so we like have some talk on the internet and get people get people going it's it definitely will be talked about the summer is here that's right it's hot it's sticky it's great to be outside but that's not an excuse to be sloppy no and there's never been a time to look tight

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masturbating to like? I can't. Chris Soules. Like, how's your self-care? It's not really something that you ask people. But I just remember being in a house full of dudes and being super stressed out in an environment that was crazy. And honestly, it just wasn't on the priority list of like, I need to like, it just wasn't. So I don't know if these guys

are settling in a little bit more or they're feeling more at home they each had their own hotel rooms i stayed on the floor that was what was crazy because i stayed with the guys with the guys oh really they put me my whole band was on another floor and i was on the actual floor which was surprising to me but they were also like i'm there for seven days and like oh don't be seen and you know like don't ruin the surprise so you would hear like the guys i would walk around and i saw like what's connor on his ukulele walking around and then i saw like blake working out outside i listened on my i was on the first floor and i would sit and look out of the mountains beautiful view but one day i remember when blake got there because i didn't know who it was and the interview

was outside of my room and i just sat there recording on my phone I didn't leak it nobody you saw I do have it but I didn't see him so I just listened to the interview for whatever it was probably like 15 minutes you have I was like who oh yeah I've got it on my phone just sitting there I was just like who is this right now and then when I find he was like I do wildlife and I just kept I almost had a game of like who is this guy that they're bringing in the middle of the season was it the interview he had with like producers with producers yeah which was also as a fan of the show my first time hearing producers being like what does it feel like to be the most hated in the house and like all that kind of stuff i'm like oh this is juicy as hell baby let's go um and it was amazing and then i would see oh my gosh then i saw now it's so funny

in retrospect seeing the season because I'd see Hunter run past my room every day, like back and forth, back and forth in a very short window. And I was just like, all right, this guy's just getting it in in this very short little narrow area. And then now that I'm looking at this sheet, it was definitely this Andrew M guy where I have this classic, I call it Bachelor in the Wild, where I was sitting there and he just no cameras seemed very sad and was like looking out at the mountains

so i just like from a distance got out of my phone just like a little video of him just pacing in his how much spy content do you have so much because i was like when else am i ever gonna live amongst these bachelors for seven days so i that's great and we had to stay in our rooms because it was what else what else did you see while we have you on listen those are the juicy ones uh what else did i see i uh i saw no that's that's most of the juice those are the three juiciest that i'd see them i was thinking about that before so you you watched blake as he arrived before he was introduced to the guys uh was he was he with the guys yet so they they apparently he had already gotten in it was probably the moment right after gotcha that they meet him for the first time and everybody's pissed because that

was the moment they're like well what does it feel like because you know they didn't really air now that i'm thinking about it they didn't really air him having a conversation about being hated in the house i mean exclusive blake is getting i could in a way i'm almost envious because i did i i was fine with my edit on caitlin season but they definitely because they they let they let it develop they are throwing it in our face and i like blake but they are throwing it in our face that Blake's a good guy. Like this, again, I don't know. This Katie thanking Tayshia for introducing them. Okay. Yeah.

I don't, but it's good for Blake. So far since he's been on, every episode opens with this kind of subtle, like America, Blake's a good guy, which I've, you know, with good guy which i've you know with connor b going home you know i had connor b in the fun did i have i kind of be in the final four yeah so like wrong there um i'm now reassessing i have a new top i have a new winner i think blake wins i think blake wins really i do because i think g breaks her heart. We're already kind of seeing that set up.

They've been really, they've been kind of breadcrumbing us that Katie has checked in with Greg three episodes in a row now. And now we're like, they're shoving Blake and Katie's relationship down our throats. Like you need to like this.

They usually do that with the person that comes in second. Listen, I could be wrong. I mean, I was wrong about Connor B and you're right. They do that with the person that comes in second listen I could be wrong I mean I was wrong about Connor B and you're right they do that a lot but I think this season is going to be different like as Katie mentioned you know I think the ending I don't know how the ending goes but it sounds

like it's going to be so maybe that's I'm starting to rethink it just because it's something it's almost too much too early there'll be some Blake drama you know they keep showing this preview of Blake saying I didn't I told her I wasn't in love with her it's like okay

like but you're not going anywhere Blake but yeah so I think do you think his edit before was bad no I think it was fine. I would think Blake is an interesting guy, right? He's very expressive, and he was one of the few –

he was one of the only other guys to say, I like Claire, when all the other guys were like, I haven't met Claire. She only hangs out with Dale. And so he put himself out there. I don't think they went out of his way to make him look bad he just was it seems like blake is the type of guy who's and good for him great for reality tv he's like i'm in this world i'm going for it yeah and and i think

that's what you're seeing and then he did the same with your tasha yeah and he is willing to just embrace whatever situation uh i i pointed out last week with natalia and i mentioned i didn't think blake got a one-on-one with taisha i was quickly reminded sorry guys i'm not a historian but i do now remember it was a very awkward one-on-one date where like it was that yoga tantric thing and blake was blake was like super into it and the whole time you could tell like taisha wasn't into it and blake was blake was like super into it and the whole time you could tell like tasha wasn't into it and blake's just like you know he really embraced like blake's present you know good for blake so i think is that it was fine but they're going out of their way to tell you we know hey it's like Bachelor Nation historically has vilified,

whether directly or indirectly, people who show up late. It's like, this is not how you're supposed to do it. And to almost counteract that, we're getting these little drops of, Blake's good, Blake's good, Tayshia introduced him. It's obvious that they're doing it. And so that tells me something. Otherwise, if he was the runner-up or top three, I don't think they would be that worried about making sure we like him.

Yeah, we like him. They would let us decide for ourselves. And I think they are trying to shove it down our throat. Because I don't think the last edit actually think that... I wasn't as enamored with him the last few seasons. I wasn't as drawn to him. And I think that he is being painted in a much better way this season.

Clearly, hopefully for a reason, because they want you to be excited about him. And he's much better looking in real life. I had to say right away when I saw him, he was working outside the room. I was like, oh damn, this dude's like really good looking. I don't know why I didn't think he was not as this good looking, but like everybody's good looking here.

So why do I feel this way? But yeah, he's much more like rugged and handsome in person. In the last season, I don't know how to describe it without being insulting. He just wasn't that to me when I saw him before. It's okay. You know? It's really, I've learned being on that show. It's amazing to me.

And some people look better. Some people look worse. No one looks exactly the same. Even Justin, who's on my date, looks nothing like he does on TV. When I saw him in the episodes, I was like, whoa, this is wild. He literally doesn't look anything like he does in person.

I wouldn't say anything, but I think he's better looking in person. I think he's way better looking in person. Yes. No, when I saw him, when he walks up for our date, I mean, he was stone faced the first moment. I was like, damn, this is going to suck. This dude is not into this.

And then he started being cool and into it. But he was his face was just like ideal, handsome face, but very just no emotion for the first take of me doing the song so that's a good example of somebody on the show that i was surprised doesn't look as incredibly handsome and as he does and i i haven't met blake in person so i will take your word for it yeah yeah he looks better and i also think i want katie to pick blake i think yeah that's the best match i i do i think passion for sure yeah i mean and i and i kind of i i always hated that when people would say that because like yeah what the fuck do i know about what's best for katie or blake but from an outsider point of view i feel

like that has i don't know if greg's to leave during Katie season or not, but if Katie picks Greg, I think Greg's going to eventually leave. Greg's going to leave Katie at some point, whether that's during filming or after, that would be my prediction. I'm just going to be heartbroken when Michael leaves. He's just my,

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around but during the the roast the the drag queen roast hunters like there's plenty of guys would vouch for me and was it michael and andrew mike p and andrew mike p seems like a stand-up guy too but i was immediately like hey i might not be the biggest hunter fan but i'm 100 team hunter in this moment because andrew s was willing to like have hunters back and all these other guys listen like the aarons and the james and the brandon it's it happens every season it's always the guys who get no fucking time and they band together they're all pros they're gonna be friends outside of the show yeah and they're just petty and it's not to no fault of their like yeah it's just they can't help themselves they don't know what else to do you're in a bubble and so like like it's gotten it's gotten comical like aaron's ability to shift his like vitriol to

like a new person each episode of like why this person sucks but andrew s is just really grounded and really centered and he is able to like decide for himself what's right and what's wrong and um and michael i think is is almost there in terms of being able to separate himself from the drama but michael is a goddamn sweetheart he's such a sweetheart did you get to meet michael i didn't i didn't get to meet like some i didn't get to meet anyone because i would see them and they'd be like oh don't say hello to that person or i remember one day i guess i was with my band like on the sixth day i was like yo i i gotta walk around this place like i'm going crazy so i walked around and i like had my shirt on my head which my wife hates she's like that's such a douchey move when you like walk around with your head shirt on

your head and i was like it was hot and they were like hey so you're on camera right now uh from a distance can you guys like leave and i was like oh my bad so all i could think was like oh man no did i ruin everything did all these you'd see me but uh but i wish i could because it was it was so nice to like talk to people after i've been dming different people so yeah i i wish i could have bonded but but i got to see them from a distance and creep and do my bachelor in the wild and it was all worth it so yeah hopefully now we get to hang with michael because we really like him i i would like to meet michael um all right so anyways we haven't really even gotten to the really episode itself um so the first one-on-one is justin yes right that's the first yes that's the first one on again this episode was just weird at this point and then

we've talked about this in other episodes but there haven't been a lot of one-on-ones like we're like we're we're down to like after this episode we're down to six dudes we're talking hometowns and there's been no one-on-ones we get a little we get the preview of hunter saying he has a top four his gas yes it's kind of comical because like i'm just wondering like where's this coming from in terms of connections like in defense to hunter a lot of guys talk about that who do you think's in the top four that happens all the time the fact that i bet aaron did it once and if and if those guys for the men who don't do it no disrespect but you're i just

don't think they're smart enough to think about that. I think it's a logical thing you do. And when you have nothing to do to like, think about how am I do? It's a competitive thing. And so like Hunter did nothing wrong, but you know, they, he, it was one of many conversations that caught, caught, they used it. So it's a bad look for Hunter. I'm dirty. It's reality TV, baby.

Get ready. And I think it's because he talked about the bachelor so much in relation to that, that that's why they did that. I mean, there's always why the guys did it on, on, on Caitlin season. Tanner, my friend Tanner was the bachelor historian, you know, and the guys liked them and Caitlin didn't really like Tanner all that much. you know and the guys liked them and caitlin didn't really like tanner all that much and and tanner was maybe a smarter hunter or tanner really just narrated it where hunter's problem is that he's both the historian and fully embracing this world and talking up his relationship with katie like a i mean the comparison there was a comparison to him

and thomas and what i would agree is where is this connection that you speak of coming from because i haven't really seen a lot of you showed katie pictures of your kids you you like taught each other how to like fall but i i don't i'm not seeing you know that it's not greg and and and he's insecure he he's in that like you said you're in that environment you have no way except to know maybe there's a little connection and it's probably out of him feeling like he you know he doesn't have that connection but i really felt like that one episode where he really unleashed his divorce that was really special when he was so open about that that was like a moment where i was like oh i'm in on this guy well i was sitting

right next to him and i i get he's a big moment him and connor more than anyone really embraced the spirit of the date and and him and connor more than any other guys really said i'm going to i'm going to be as honest as i possibly could be and all the other guys were like honest ish yeah like they left out some of the juicier details out of fear of how they might come across yeah um and and hunter and and connor were definitely the most vulnerable without question other than like other than that like what are your thoughts on on hunter yeah i think well that's probably to his personality again is that he's completely open and probably the same reason why he's sharing the top four and then you know producers and everybody else is saying let's

oh this is good stuff to put into the universe but that moment revealed to me that he's not afraid to be completely honest about everything he's feeling on both ends of it and i think that he probably felt safe then because people were being cool but then as it's getting down to this this episode people are starting to get a little more insecure themselves with their connections and so they don't know if they're gonna stay and so it's time to find the next person that everybody can gang up on and i definitely think he he comes across pretty badly in moments but but i keep remembering that episode because that made me really appreciate it.

He's just a really intense guy. Yeah, totally. And I think that can be used to your advantage or disadvantage, especially in this world. Those runs every day. I'm telling you, now that I know it was him, he was in it, baby. He was like, I'm going to kill this run every day.

This 30 feet, I'm going to go back and forth, and it's going to be the best run anybody's ever done he was going for it uh so Katie and Justin um again they're just limited to like different date options so like it's you know they're just like hanging out what was the day portion of their date it was the wedding date classic oh classic classic and they had to like they had to like say their vows yeah actually i forgot i feel embarrassed i knew it was something i remember being like it's fucking weird and then it was me nick that was the other part of the date that was the great part that part i remember max that part i was so focused on that but i forgot about the weird like let's get

in a wedding dress and it's such a i i you know what i props to justin totally that i think is a setup to fail oh for sure like he you can't look great you can only like not look weird i have like photos like that with with corinne from my date and i'll be honest it affects my life not one bit it was just i'm wearing an adam and eve costume with like yeah oh she was in a bikini corinne right oh she took her and it was a whole thing but i'm just saying not that big of a deal um yeah it was just kind of weird the whole like it's the earnestness of that i don't know if it's a show decision or the producer but but they're like, no, no, no. Let's not have fun.

Let's pretend this is a wedding. I don't know. Which really was dramatic for Katie at the end of the day because it really hit her hard that her dad wasn't there. It was traumatic for her, actually. Yeah. I think we were going to find that out about Katie regardless. Knowing how the show works, they always like a metaphor or setup like i don't did katie like have ptsd because i don't maybe i don't know but i feel like i don't i almost like it almost takes away from katie's story that like she had to experience this with justin for her to be reminded of what it was

what it's going to be like when she does get married or the conflict she has as we now learn that her biological father is still alive she doesn't have a relation with him um and and that's a real life experience and relatable for people and again like i don't know it was weird because like we we just haven't seen katie and justin at this point if you would have told me that just it seems like justin's a real player justin might be top four like but at this point we there's been no katie and justin at all all we all we've gotten from justin it was like meme god who's like his reactions to every moment is incredible his eyebrows and even that was like great job like it's hard to make an impression on this show and justin without having

any relation with katie as of yet made a great impression yeah because his reactions are amazing but like right off the bat katie's like hey by the way here's the situation we did this thing during the day and i thought justin handled it as well as he could not really knowing yeah katie it doesn't seem like right i don't yeah i don't know it's a it's a tough it's a tough situation to be in yeah but she seemed it was like yeah it was like he wasn't able to relate so he couldn't really have a conversation other than like i support you thank you for sharing yeah again he did fine i and and i don't know if he could have done better so it's a tough situation situation justin was put him for himself in uh and then you play me beautiful song beautiful uh beautiful voice as as i you know. What was your, my question for you,

singing is while you're performing, and granted, you didn't necessarily have anything to compare it to, but you've seen people in love. You've seen people connect. Did you buy Justin and Katie in that moment? And how closely were you looking at their connection or lack thereof?

Or was it just two people in a sexy environment listening to a sexy song, enjoying the moment? Or was there a real like, is Justin a real contender for Katie's heart or a contender for top four? The latter. I think that he's a contender for top four, but it wasn't there. It wasn't. And it was tough because I bought this. The song is called Butterflies. And I wrote it for my wife to renew our vows. And I really believe in love. That's why I got into this show because I watched

the 23 seasons when my wife was pregnant. And that's why I like hyper binged. It's the pandemic. We're not really going anywhere. So I was like, Bachelor, baby, let's go. So I really, I really feel like I've been investing it in that moment i bought this butterfly this forever butterfly to give to the couple to be like i hope that your relationship lasts forever and as at the end of the song when i gave it to them i was like this ain't it this ain't gonna happen this ain't gonna be it but i still think you know they they had good chemistry but clearly with katie i think that she's not there is somewhere yeah it was somewhere else and i can't even imagine again seeing it in person a little bit more. And then watching the show. It's like,

with so many different people, you know, my dad watched the episode last night with me, and he hasn't watched it all. He's like, so they all date her? What's going on? Like, what? What are they? How does this work? And I'm like, yeah, it's when you really think about it, it's intense, you know, having feelings for so many different people. So for me, I think that she's really being so open. And even with him on this date, she was pretty open. But, you know, again, I didn't know. I've seen a lot of the musical performances. Usually I'm not very invested, but as a fan of the show, I was stoked.

And I had to sing the song like three times. So I got to be there for a little bit and be like, here's that song again for your date. How are you guys doing? How was the day date? Did they dance to the song? Oh, yeah. Well, I did my song, Let's Down Love. here's that song again for your date how you guys doing how was the day date you know they danced to the song oh yeah well i did my song lifestyle love of course i was like give them one they know and then this new one that's the one that you like yeah that's the one i watched the one i discovered awesome uh but yeah it was so i started with butterflies and justin was like

dead face deadpan the whole time i was like damn if they just air this i'm screwed you know i was like this is gonna look bad but i also was so afraid that maybe they would not uh she wouldn't choose them all the whole week i was like what if the date goes bad and then my performance doesn't happen because that's happened before where it's like yeah all i was like that'd be kind of epic if it was like it just didn't work out with justin on that possibility no they were just like if it happens you, we'll be like, Justin wasn't the one. And then it'll be like, could have been this performance, you know? I think you were good.

I feel like they're considered, like, nothing's a total surprise. Sometimes you get a surprise. You don't really know what's going to say. And who knows, Justin could have been like, you know, Katie. Here's a scenario. Katie tells a very vulnerable story. Totally. Very vulnerable story totally very vulnerable story and and we

don't know how someone handles that and an awkwardness justin could have handled it so poorly oh yeah she could have been like i'm not nah like it's over and that's that was possible it was possible but usually you don't get that intense of a story where it's just like everyone knows she or he likes the person and it's like they say it's gonna go well yeah uh so that's possible with connor i i didn't think that that was i mean you hadn't you didn't think so but i guarantee you they knew they knew yeah yeah she probably knew so yeah no i was i was very grateful but at the other side of being like damn it didn't didn't didn't happen so it's just gonna be a beautiful date and uh and then luck like literally i performed the song and they're making out the whole time and i'm like yep this is as

awkward as i imagine this is great i'm watching this performance where do i look do i look at them making out what do i do when when you got done performing yeah did they immediately stop touching and kissing or or were they holding hands or were they kind of it was it like did it was it cut and because sometimes that happens in that world oh really where you yes yeah they just stop they just kind of stop because it and and part times they're they're filming a show but there is a like i guarantee you her and blake are being a couple 24 7 totally and and katie it's just like it's just hard to do it's hard to like be that intense so that wasn't that when they were they were at least going through the motion it got increasingly less awkward which was nice for me because i was like oh they got more footage

this is gonna be great and it ended up after thinking i was like oh this is cute it worked out well but the after the i did the song the first time then I was like so how was your day and then we started getting into it they're like it was a cute date and he smiled I was like oh he has a he's nice he's not he's not he's not gonna kill me and then I sang like hello and then I sang I was like here's that other one again you guys are hearing it again and they felt like they started to get cuter the only thing that was hard for me was like they were staring at me and then immediate make out it wasn't like a transition quick like slowly into the make out it was staring boom together let's get it on baby and i'm like oh this is happening all right well anyway i won't stop i think we could confirm at this point this season that's a katie move

yeah okay katie goes from zero 100 when it comes to making out and episode one or two you're not sure if is it like is it connor b is it greg but like katie hard makes out like she goes zero to 100 there's no like laying your head on the chest or like there's just no build-up it's just like kissing like full-on make out she was but i will say it seemed like he initiated maybe because this was kind of weird for him too i'm sure he hasn't like i don't mean initiating the kiss she might not initiate oh but every makeout she had immediately it's a hard makeout and katie's the only constant again there's i'm just pointing it out it's not a criticism it's just it is she's living her best life baby she's like let's go right away waste no time is this right or not and i respect that for sure especially as a girl dad if my

daughter ever were on the bachelorette i'd be like you know what figure it out quick honey don't don't mess around with these guys there you go what you need uh so justin gets a rose yeah which is great he's great and yeah i think we realize that justin all a sudden is like, it might be top four. Meanwhile, you know, the Hunter storyline continues. We hear him say he thinks he's in the top four. And then we get to the group date. Hunter's on it. He's mad.

Connor B is getting. I did. I actually, when they were going through the date card, I said to Natalie, I did, I actually, when they were going through like the date card, I said to Natalie, I go, hmm, it's, I could see Hunter being on it,

but whoever's on this one-on-one, I bet is getting sent home. We haven't had that yet. When it was, I will say though, when it was Connor B, I did not, I thought he was going to get a rose.

I was like, oh, okay, well, I was wrong. Yeah. And then we have the group date. It's the drag queens.

I think we all kind of change. We were disappointing date in the sense that first I was like, oh, cool. Guys can dress up in drag. That could be interesting. Fun. Let's see who embraces it. Let's see who doesn't. Okay, they're not doing that.

Then we find out it's more of a roast. Roast it. Okay, that also could be fun. Like, let's see what these guys have to, like, talk some shit. They're going to... Weak performance by the men. The guests, the drag queens, queens wonderful funny uh snarky i love that they were even like you guys fucking suck yeah you know and like to put it in perspective

they that's the that's the best they had after a probably a good 45 minutes to an hour of like writing shit down yeah um getting ideas from producers and and just like what about this or what about that and then that whole debate how long did that take i mean they probably filmed that for a couple hours and that's the best the guys had that's that was it they didn't do anything greg had a weird poem. Like, it was fine. But it was weird because they were just like, well, we're not going to like, we're not going to talk shit about each other. We're going to talk shit about Hunter. Ended up asking questions, which is not a roast.

No, it was like weird. And like, can't you like make fun? Like, I would roast my friends. It's a roast. Like, that's the whole idea. It's just like, I'm going to tease you on things and I'm going to get it too.

But they didn't know the difference between giving each other shit, having some fun, maybe some truce there, to like, well, we don't want to be mean, but we will fucking try to destroy Hunter. Yeah.

Which is just kind of fucking weird. Which they didn't do. Which they didn't do a fucking weird it just didn't they didn't do which they didn't do a very good job or they didn't show it i don't know either way hunter to his credit was like i don't know i once i i felt endeared to hunter i don't know how you felt max but like you could tell like they set it up where he's like i know they're coming for me yeah and immediately i was like well now it's just gotten weird and mean you know yeah and to hunter's credit he didn't indulge and maybe it's smart because it's like why do that we did find we get hunter got caught in a lie yes um because the he is asked um you know do you see yourself in love with Katie?

He's like, I don't. And I loved his answer. I loved his answer, which was, like, I like her, she's cool, but, like, I don't want to get carried away. Yeah, yeah. What? Yeah, achieving a relationship.

And I'm like, what a great response, except that Hunter, up until this point, has said things like, this is my girl. Yeah. Granted, he's kind of talking in bachelor but andrew doesn't do that just want to point out yeah and then he is asked straight up like all right um and then he he does it's like it's he said it in a way like a switch went off where he's like oh wait i'm gonna this is what i should say i'm no fine i am falling in

love with her and it it definitely came across as a bold-faced lie. Like I felt for Hunter on this date, but he also got caught up in an absolute... He didn't stay... He folded. He totally folded under the pressure. Do you think that Shay should have come out and said that he did say it?

I don't... No, I don't think it it's uh their responsibility to and maybe they did i don't know that wasn't aired yeah but i don't think it's their responsibility to necessarily be the story no it's for the guys to call it out and and we did because it seems like trey because we didn't see this like it was it hunter who had the conversation with shay it was hunter had the conversation with shay and then trey overheard it which made that we didn't see that though it just seemed like it seemed yeah so all of a sudden to answer your question you can tell the producers don't want

shay to be the story they want trey to be the story. They want Trey to be the story. And Trey is like, well, you didn't see me, but I was five feet away and I heard this. Because we like Trey. We know he's not probably going to connect with Katie, but we think he's being honest the whole time. Well, I liked Trey's exit. I think Trey seems like a nice guy. I can't say I'm a big fan of trey as a result of the show because he is a liar and he wait when did he lie i forget about thomas oh i mean like

he's not a liar like i think i think trey i mean trey would probably if he's listening he's like i'm not a liar but he did he lied he did he he exaggerated the truth. Yeah. He got caught up. He took up the mantle as like house snark, tattletale. It usually happens when they know that they're not connecting as much as other people with the person. And yeah, I get that. He really endeared me when he got sent home. He got choked up. I wanted to give him a hug.

He seems like a really good guy. But at the same time in that world, he, he was great TV, but yeah, uh, I think, I think when you look, I wonder if Trey, I would be one.

If I got to see Trey in person to meet him, I would want to know like between you and me, like, did you like how that you came across as like this person who was always willing to tattle and be involved in the drama? Or did you learn a lesson about yourself? I'd be curious. I think,

I feel like there's two as a fan, I feel like there's two types of people, people that, you know, realize they have the connection with the person and they, they stick to it. And they're like, I don't really need to like get involved with all the other people.

I'll be friendly with the other people, but like, I don't want to screw this up. And the other people. I'll be friendly with the other people. But I don't want to screw this up. And then there's the people that maybe accept that they know they are not quite as far. So they're more about the group relationship. It's like a strange summer camp where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm with my bunk. And like, yo, this person's messing around. And like, we got to make sure that we put them in their place. And he seemed like he's probably having a great time with the guys.

And they're talking about it a lot. And they like yo she's got to know because they care about katie but they know that they aren't probably the one for her yes so they're they're like we got to protect her and they don't know how long they're gonna last and so to me he probably wasn't like oh i'm trying to i'm trying to tattle and i'm trying to like get rid of people he was more like yo we're like the big brothers now in a weird way even though we make out out with her. Like we're we are the protectors. And we just want to make sure that if it isn't us, it's not someone that you really shouldn't be with. What if I told you that there's a third group who messed me up? And that third group is like the second group.

It doesn't have a connection with Katie. But instead of tattling, they're just like, it isn doesn't like me so and then they get sent home yeah that so the trays and the errands the world chose drama and tv attention and and and tattling is that does that weaken your character if you're like i'm gonna choose chaos and drama over just you know not like anything kate doesn't like me so you know and these and and and you know hunter not my guy but he's not doing it let's be honest not doing anything wrong yeah thomas not my guy but like who hasn't thought about being the bachelor they're in a bubble and they're i get it but

i'm just saying you know like there's yeah you could have saying you could have just chilled and like gone quietly it's more credit to the ones who don't get caught up into it rather than a criticism to the ones who do and make no mistake I'm thankful for the trays from a TV viewer

you know drama standpoint alright so the guys suck on the road yeah the rest is not great what we've learned about these guys is they're not witty or funny like at all they've had they had every opportunity because the savage thing well i mean like they had at least an hour and help to write jokes and that was the best post could do they're like what did greg say to katie on the group date when they talked there was a conversation that it was kind of what yeah she checked in again but greg i don't know he did say something i was like i don't know if greg really likes katie he talks about and he's

like yeah he says the right things i don't know but greg is low energy hard time is what it was i think i think someone he i think he liked her from the beginning but it takes a very patient guy to know i am into this person i have a connection and i'm going to be patient enough to let everybody else have a connection with them and wait till the end. That's like real husband material knowing she's got to figure it out. And I don't know if Greg is that because he probably was super into it. And then he's like, damn, everybody's making out with her. Everybody's connecting with her. Am I am I patient enough to like, is this the person I'm going to be with for the rest of my life that I'm willing to wait for that? So I think it's like probably really hard to just know that a bunch of other people with someone you really like are connecting. Yeah. And like I said, Greg is a low energy guy, which I can be alone. Like it kind of it can read as dismissive and aloof where he just might be like, I don't know, like, what am I supposed to? It is.

It's super weird to get an early one on one and then go into group dates where like Trey's is like I thrive in this. Like it's all I know. Can I ask you something? Sure. As a as someone who has experienced this, do you ever is there ever talk with other guys ever? Or is it the elephant in the room always about the connections or physical chemistry or any

of that? Is that just like we're homies and we're staying away from this? Or do you ever talk about it? Oh, you talk about it because there's these man chats that you're like forced to talk about it and then there's like conversations that like like the hunt hunter thought he was having an like a a genuine conversation with greg that he didn't think was being filmed it's amazing how quickly you forget your mic totally like hunter's whispering it's like yeah no point whispering i mean maybe the guys won't hear you but like america will you know like that but you're quickly forget everything you

say can and will be used against you in the court of bachelor law like that's kind of how it works but i mean more guy to guy i mean i guess that's what i'm trying to ask is like you really have to trust people and it's hard to trust like you know hunter trusted greg and greg threw him under the bus yeah you know and so it's hard to be like i think i don't know and then it's just like is it disrespectful to talk about and like they can go any direction. If you don't talk about it, then you're being, you could be respectful or you could be hiding something.

It's like. Totally. But do you guys at night sit in the room with all the bunks and be like, I made out with her today. Did you make out with her today? I made out with her today. I can't imagine that's the case. It's more like, let's all pretend this is not happening.

The guys talk about it way less than the women the women uh when it's the bachelor uh seem to be far more communicative more communicative about that which i do think is more in line with i think women talk about uh yeah that am i right there in terms of like you know yeah like guys when they like you know like we hooked up and that's like that's the story yeah where i feel like when women talk with their friends more often we'll get into the more so like let me set the stage we you know yeah yeah and guys don't really do that really um and i And I think that kind of, that's how it's more like that in Bachelor world. Yeah, it makes sense. I'd like my best friend.

We've definitely had some experiences before or after with the same girl. And it's always just like, oh man, well, that happened. It's not my wife. So it's all good. I mean, I don't know why you thought that would be cool. But also like literally the person right before I met my wife and I've been with her ever since I was single for like a week, literally between relationships. And I had a quick fling with somebody that was in my past.

And I guess she developed feelings and I wasn't there. I just it was more so it was just like, I'm single again. And then she went for my best friend and he didn't think to think, oh, this is like probably not the best thing to like, there's plenty of people in the world but also i was like you know it is cool like it's totally fine man i love you and but we didn't like get into it hardcore because we don't that's i feel like that's the kind of thing guys do that's a sign of maturity there max well done oh man we've had that many times i'm always like you're such an idiot why did you he's like he's like i don't know man like you guys weren't together anymore and she called me and it was fine you know what i love you still you gotta father my child it's

cool whatever it's i'm glad that we were there so so i guess point is that uh the greg also all of this stemmed from me asking for the greg thing because i feel like i'm sure that's really hard to battle that as someone in this environment early on getting a connection i'm sure if you're adjusting and you're halfway through and then you start to be like, oh, this could be real. That's probably maybe an easier thing than from the beginning, getting that first impression rose and having strong feelings and then having to accept that there's all these other guys that are maybe getting closer to your relationship. And then the insecurity sets in of like, wait, I thought I was it, but maybe this person does have a strong relationship.

Yeah, I think that does happen. I think these guys, like my guess is all these guys know that Katie likes Greg. Like everyone knows that Katie is. Like they can see it. They can sense it. I knew it. I didn't even meet Greg. I was on the grounds for like seven days.

And the vibe was just like, yep. The vibe was Greg. The vibe was Greg. That happens. So we go into the night portion of the group date. Well, can I ask you one more question about that? About the conversations Katie had? Do you think it's weird that Blake was talking to her

about how he was having a really hard time with their challenge? I think he's just cheeky. I think he's a goofy guy. And he just he's been i think he's a guy and he's been on the show if anything him doing him real i think he has a leg up against everybody because him showing up to the room he's like there's no rules i can do whatever i want well he didn't yeah i mean he didn't it seemed a little staged but also hey blake katie said you want to go say hi and he said yes and you know good again blake's giving be given blake is giving in and being given an incredible edit which means to me that there's a there it's there's a reason why so yeah i think blake's is

kind of goofy um so the guy i love how james comes in and he sets the stage by saying you know it's not my character to talk shit and he was referencing his inability to tell a joke on on the group date yeah followed by but let me talk shit about hunter solely based off of nothing um froze hunter under the bus i'm really confused you know like again katie has a role as a bachelorette she's often asked to do things that's just like it's going to come across as like her plan and her idea and that may not always be the case but i do think she is it's her i think her reactions are authentic unless katie is a phenomenal actor yeah she really like seems to be reacting to gossip almost at an unhealthy level like these guys when they threw thomas under the bus and throwing hunter on the bus her willing to believe

unsubstantiated rumors is mildly concerning to like and again unless we're not you know i kind of said this with katie when she was here unless maybe there's things we're not seeing but all it takes is like hey i don't like this person i think uh i think they're here for the wrong reasons and katie's just like oh no you know she and then she went and talked to hunter and i thought hunter handled it as well as he could have yeah apparently katie was so distraught by that conversation with hunter which from our point of view seemed fine like a fine conversation of like hey you know someone's talking shit about you and then hunter's like that sucks but like i do like

you yeah i hope you believe me and katie's like i gotta go throw up this is so disheartening the food there wasn't great you know this i did eat the same meal every day i had three options for each meal every day and by the fourth day i was like i don't know if i have this quinoa chicken again it's just like it was a brutal menu and so maybe the puking was from that but we are being led to believe that it was based off the conversation yeah yeah yeah she had with with hunter it just didn't seem to track and given that she kind of had this reaction with thomas i'm a little like because i remember when i like when i was the bachelor like again like i was familiar with the process like again as a bachelor

the best right you know you have a role to play and that role sometime is allowing people to talk shit you know so like when they would all be talking shit about each other i would ask the appropriate questions to i wouldn't silence them i'd'd be like, oh, well, what's going on? Like, what's going on? Like, just, I'm here, I'm a vessel to listen to you. Please talk shit. But I would always be like, really? Oh no, like I didn't care.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like I was just there to help facilitate them to be expressive. I wanted them to speak their truth. Katie on the other hand, seems to be truly affected by these rumors in the house. Yeah. Or, again, she's just a phenomenal actor. Yeah.

I think she's really genuine. And even just getting to know her, she seems to be, in those moments, probably really, I think she seems really invested in this working. No, totally. Yeah. And maybe it's just an inkling. You know when you think something and you're like, ah ah but maybe it's not true i'm just getting insecure maybe it's that she's been feeling this way about him and then suddenly maybe she's like when he

tackles so hard on the field and all those moments i think in the back of her mind she's probably like i guess is there yeah i just would like to see from katie not at least again we're we're basing this off of what we got to see what we get to see exactly it seems like she's basing a lot of her decisions on rumors she hears from other people yeah and again we might not be getting the benefit of seeing the whole story but it's the second time guys have thrown someone under the bus yeah and it's completely shifted katie's point of view on that guy i think that to me maybe she just seems to feel like if there's any red flags and if there are multiple people saying it maybe it's not like is how much how worth it is it to her that's a good point explore it because she's

just like i'm not trying to waste time. There's 10 guys are doing this. Maybe this isn't the person I want to be with. Cause that's my life. Then like a lot of people are, you know, how much do I want to defend this person forever? And that's, look,

you know, I've been married for six years. You definitely, if you're with somebody, you want to be their first defender. I feel like you're like, I'll kill anybody that messes with you. So if you don't feel that way right away about a person, you have to convince yourself.

Then she's just probably I think she's just realizing that they're not the person for her. There could be a little bit of that. If it was Greg or Blake, people were talking shit about. I think she would defend harder. Probably. Probably. I still think it has to do with her being who she was from last season. I think that she was the whistleblower last season.

She's sitting there thinking to herself in her mind. who she was from last season. I think that she was the whistleblower last season. She's sitting there thinking to herself in her mind, I did this because I saw all this in the house and that's why I told Matt about all this. So if these people are coming to me, this is something that's happening. That's where I think it comes from. So she empathizes with it. So she's like, I didn't do it to cause drama.

I did it because I wanted to protect him. I don't know if that's always the smartest approach, but it makes sense that she might be doing that. Yeah. She's like, well, if I saw it and I did it, then these guys must be seeing it. So she's projecting, you think, a little bit. Maybe.

Maybe, yeah. That makes sense. Interesting. Dang. Well, again, Katie throws up and then... Again, Katie throws up. She doesn't give out what we now know. We have a drama rose on this group date.

We have love roses on group dates. We have drama roses. Even though she doesn't give out the rose, it is still a drama rose because she doesn't give it out. Yes. And it's just like, oh, no, Katie is so distraught. She can't even bear to give out a rose whatever um and then and then she has and then we get to see the connor b one-on-one which is set up from the start that she's gonna send him home yeah it feels yeah all of a sudden we're like i'm in i feel like he's a

friend she's setting the stage and i don't't remember Katie ever. You know, I honestly Connor being Katie have had some of the hardest makeouts. Yeah. Yeah. There he has. He's very passionate. Yeah. He's been grabbing the face. And again, I think Katie is a hard maker outer.

So like she's just, you know, we but I was I was like, was like oh oh they're friends interesting point because it just seemed like you know he was wearing his shirts open and very open very dancing with the stars open yeah he's so i like it and he's unapologetically himself i like connor man he's yeah cat man and then yeah yeah, yeah. And actually, this was the first time I really liked the new host situation. I liked that Caitlin brought in and did the double date. Unfortunately for Connor, his one-on-one was a group date. It was a group date.

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know. Not a good sign. Yeah, probably not. But also an important thing in a relationship to make sure that, like, how are you going to bond with other people? Sure. But not necessarily when you have had no other opportunity. No that one-on-one time finally ready for my alone and one-on-one time with with katie let's bring in

people to make it less awkward totally not a good side when you bring in like it's like that you know like hey i'm gonna go on this blind date i want to make sure i don't get murdered so you invite some friends out to shop like katie brought chaperones yeah yeah yeah which which maybe was a part i mean i'm sure that was set up but also maybe a part of her getting to figure out if he was right because maybe seeing if they saw the chemistry i don't know yeah because like jason was i think there the whole time like staying with with caitlin so they could have done that whenever i want and when when it, at any time, any point.

So I do think it was specifically chosen for given that Katie was almost certainly going to send Connor B. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, unfortunately can be in love. Unfortunately for Connor, uh,

Katie blamed it solely on the kiss or kissing. Uh, yeah. Which in fairness to Connor, um, again, I haven't been in that position. Katie blamed it solely on the kiss or kissing. Yeah. Which in fairness to Connor, again, I haven't been in that position. I'm pretty sure Katie went into that date being like, this is not my guy. She knew,

of course. But she's like, no, can I be honest? It was the kiss. And then when he said, how bad was my kiss? I was like,

nah, Connor, you're a good guy, baby. Keep playing that hook, live your life. Connor really took one for the team there and the way he was so patient

knowing that this was the moment where he was not going to be with her and she's breaking up and I really applaud him for the way he was so giving to her like she says you know that was a testament to his character for sure he seems like a really gentle gentleman

the intensity of the breakup didn't seem to like make sense given like, yeah, I, you know, I don't, the time we've seen. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. But he was into her. And by the way, is this the first time we've seen somebody go back to the group after a one-on-one with them? I was so, I thought the first, but it wasn't an accident.

I've never seen a bond like that with clearly they all really loved him and stuff. I just, I as a viewer, don't think I'd ever seen it. What that is, is that I think all the guys, I mean, even Hunter thought Connor B was in the top four, right? So all the guys, I think, saw a connection or perceived a connection between Katie and Connor. So to,

to have Connor walk back and, and crying and being the sweet guy, like that's, they got the reaction they wanted. It just made it all very real for the guys. It's like one thing to take a suitcase and whatever, like, Oh,

Connor's gone. But like, yeah, I guarantee you Connor went on that one-on-one date being like we got a great relationship this date's all about solidifying the connection we already have yep you know they did all these man chats that always happen like so do you think katie how's that date and they all like connor so they're all like oh he's totally gonna get a rose he's good he's gonna get a rose etc etc and so yeah uh it was important for these guys to see and feel Conor's heartbreak to up the stakes going forward for the remaining part of the season.

So to me, that's why they allowed that and showed that. It wasn't the first time, but it was purposeful and significant without question. It was effective for me. I was like, whoa, this is pretty special that they're all giving so much love and but it makes total sense that yes that was sort of a a wake-up call for everybody that it's getting real yeah and so now we get into oh then oh blake does uh you know say anything moment you know um yeah of course i wonder what the real song because that was obviously the song from the other performer on the show i was like what did he actually blast through that because it definitely wasn't that live performance from the bachelorette not yet mixed yeah maybe it was

peter gabriel you know but like obviously they didn't have the licensing for that yeah yeah i was like use my song i was just on the episode guys producers what we doing but they went on that one i know i'm fracking i already got this time but you know i feel like your song like i mean i'm not the biggest country fan yeah so there was something about a country yeah but like i would agree your song would have been more appropriate no no no no i'm just playing they were the musical guests last week also a delight no he just blasts like louis verd over this yeah he's like come out katie let's go baby come on and yeah i again this was such a gift to blake clearly he was given the opportunity to do this he did this it was very carefully done where you know like unlike when caitlin and i had our thing it was like this is going to be a light make out

we're gonna you're gonna we're gonna remind of the connection yes you know katie's crying but like blake saves the day totally uh and and so we're just reinforcing the connection between her and blake yep um and and then we go into um the group. And here, this was, again, to solidify the weirdness of this episode. Katie, not Tayshia or Caitlin, walks in to the cocktail party. Katie knows what she wants, according to Katie. And this is where, like, I do feel like we talked about this before the show. I do think, I don't know what you think having watched 23 seasons and you know chris is no longer with the franchise we have katie and tasia coming in as described as

this mentor role and there is a distinct difference between the role chris played in the role they're having caitlin and tasia play like even from episode one this kind of like playful goofy like sisterhood yeah and that's that in some and in some moments i think there's a additional benefit and a value add but i think what this season seems to be lacking and i don't know what the decision was to have katie come in versus taisha or caitlin there seems to be a lack of an authority like chris would come in and say you know i mean it was almost a running joke chris walked in it was like well we're not here to authority like chris would come in and say you know i mean it was almost a running joke chris walked in it was like well we're not here to date you chris you know like so why are

you here it was like the bear like the grim reaper but it was like we all listened to chris and chris was like oh shit what's chris doing here right yeah and he would like kind of you and i think bachelor nation felt that and you know caitlin's walking in goofing around saying hey don't don't masturbate and again like that's not a criticism to caitlin that's the role they're having her play like this kind of playful it's a it's just a different and it was kind of a weird like it's it's there is lacking that role of authority with with both the the suitors and i think bachelor nation i don't know how they're going to do that going forward, but I do think that's missing from the season.

Do you agree, disagree with anyone else? Sure. Is that just my point of view? He was the dad. And yeah, it's definitely a different dynamic. Maybe something really beautiful will come. Again, I personally thought that that double date was a nice example of like,

oh, we're seeing like, this is what it could be like when it's successful. And that's sort of, that felt like a more authority role of, or looking up to role of like, oh, we're seeing like, this is what it could be like when it's successful. And that's sort of, that felt like a more authority role of, or looking up to role of like, this is how it could be if it works out. So, but I do feel like it's a different, yeah, it's a way different dynamic now. And, but maybe that'll be even cooler as it goes on.

You know, I'm interested to see, I think it's still getting worked out. That's the thing about this season. It's not, it's not, we haven't found the magic quite yet of what this new relationship will bring that we haven't seen before so i i hope that it keeps coming but there's been little sparks of magic but i do miss that feeling that i got with that other kind of role well i also think it did katie a disservice in this moment because she comes in she's like i

know what i want to do yeah and certainly when the lead comes in and says that there's a level of authority she carries over the guys being like oh shit you know only like so then the rose ceremony starts and katie calls hunter's name yeah uh you know like there's this new apparently this new move yeah yeah yeah and that is the pump fake pump fake baby we fake, baby. We like a little drama. I wonder if- Like, I've never seen the, we did a pump fake with Thomas,

or now we do a pump fake with Hunter. Like, this is a new move they're incorporating into the show. There's a new play in the playbook. It's the three-point shot in basketball, baby. Let's get a little pump fake. You like the pump fake. I just, as again, I haven't seen it, so I'm like, oh, let's go. We'll take any new moves

okay it's a vibe i uh i i i welcome the pump fake if it keeps me guessing but it did katie a disservice because again like as as the bat charrette and what she's asked to do i know what i want to do rose ceremony starts yeah what a great time to have a conversation with hunter at a cocktail party sure she could have walked in yes and said to the guys hey guys um thanks for what a crazy week um we're not gonna have a cocktail party tonight i know what i want to do but there is one conversation i need to have hunter can we talk sure that would have made more sense but no it's now they're having katie contradict herself i mean and maybe that's how it went down i don't know maybe yeah you don't

really know maybe katie an hour and a half later i was like oh shoot i really do want to talk to hunter and what the fuck did she want to talk to hunter about we i don't get the conversation they had the same conversation again it didn't it didn't really reveal much i i agree it didn't i didn't feel like i got a lot of uh new information or that she had a better understanding maybe we just didn't see it but it didn't feel like that no and while i do think the pump fake is good drama i don't know if it is shines a positive light on the lead because it almost sound it almost comes across as cruel oh yeah i'm with you i'm with you hey also that's when you miss the master of ceremonies in that moment too because imagine if like caitlin or tasia in that position of a master of ceremonies

had walked into that cocktail party and had been like okay katie knows what she wants to do tonight however she would like to have one conversation with one of you hunter can you please meet her outside before the like that would have brought a whole different level of, of like, of like what people were going to, I'm, it is something that is missing, but it would have brought a whole different level of like drama or like the making it, it feel heavier or more serious than, than it was. Yeah. Snap snaps. That's right. I totally agree. Yeah. So I don don't know i think clearly they're having they're still figuring out how they want to go about it but i i think the show is missing that i agree i agree anyway and then you know so katie has a conversation with hunter

yeah hunter comes back yeah i just i don't like the pump fake it's it comes across as cruel yeah i get that um and then only to find out she didn't give him a rose like she doesn't and then to top off a nonsensical episode of bizarre things the fuck is his name brendan gets a rose like what the fuck why is he still here who is he i i think we've only seen like in a montage of like conversations katie's having with like what was 30 men yeah yeah like i we saw a conversation with brendan had that kind of classic like uh so like you know i like like you and stuff and yeah like you're like the greatest you know girl wanna smash what and he's like and this is not a criticism to brendan like it just we haven't been we haven't we haven't gotten to see a lot of him

yeah but but what katie wanted to make very clear before she psyched out hunter and after she you know she's like a hunter is that whoever's left because it was significant we we saw connor b go home yep and then all of a sudden no no we're gonna send four more guys home that was the big question yep i was wondering that as a fan is it going to be two is it going to be three and i was like before the rose ceremony started i was like brendan's going home and who else was i certain is going home andrew no uh before the rose ceremony started it was like who i was yeah trey i was i was i was unsure about trey there was one other person that i was like oh james james and brandon i was for sure it's just like these two are gone 100 and the only question is are they gonna send more like

a third so i was way off for james is still the box where's james man where's the guy with the swooped hair oh man katie's here to tell everyone like these are the relationships i have i have connections with and i want to like really escalate these and you're like okay then that makes sense like yeah yeah yeah let's do that so i surprised aaron of them what what do you say wasn't there a super tease of them? What? What'd you say? Wasn't there a super tease of her and Brendan, like super like having crazy conversations? Yeah, they did for this next one. Yeah. He DM'd me yesterday.

He seems nice. I don't know. He seemed totally nice. I don't have much to say about him. This is not a criticism. But he doesn't get a lot of screen time. It's true. And so it is sort of a surprise

when we've seen Aaron so much. Why are you here? I don't. And both seem to have the same equal level of, but I think, you now as i think about it she's getting rid of the drama and she's getting rid of the drama e you know she's she's like yeah i don't know if i want the people that are she's not getting rid of the drama no she's definitely not getting rid of of the drama in general but as i think of the people that ended up leaving you know she's probably just it seems to me as a viewer that she's realizing these are people I don't connect with and they seem

to be fighting internally. So maybe I just don't want that in my life as I move forward. Yeah. Anyways, it was definitely a shocker. It was. Yeah. Keeping Brendan. Brendan.

Brendan. Yeah, totally. So yeah, we have five go home this episode episode i wanted more aaron he's been like sort of the sort of the voice of reason in a lot of these um really i was ready to see aaron go you i mean yes and no like i i was surprised because i really wasn't into him in the beginning and then i started to get more into his uh his can like just his his his whole his whole thing ended up being charming towards towards the end you. He seems like a nice guy. I'm sure we'll see him in paradise.

I'm sure we'll see him in paradise. I hope Aaron has a different story. I'm just kind of tired of him being the group leader of who are we going after this week. Yeah, no, I get that. I'd like to think it's beneath Aaron. Sure. He just seemed like he was having a good time being on the show. Yes. Same with... Beneath Aaron. Sure. You know, he just seemed like he was having a good time being on the show and maybe.

Yes. Yeah. Same with, and Trey. I mean, I will say to, I, I, I'm not the biggest Trey fan on the show because of the tattling,

but a great exit for Trey. Yeah. Really endearing. Really. I really, really liked Trey in that moment. And again, it's set up for paradise.

Great set up. Yeah. Yeah. I hope we see him in paradise and then we have so we have left we have the two mics mike uh michael and mike we have uh justin we have greg and uh and that's that's right that's it yeah what is that like yeah blake of course Katie alluded to that Mike virgin Mike is I think we're going to start getting to see more of him and truthfully

I probably would have had the same reaction to Mike as I did with Brendan if it weren't for Katie and the podcast kind of getting it away there's going to be some Mike she did not utter the word brendan yeah yeah yeah yeah so like i that was still perplexed about that um do you have a give me your final four oh man a final four let's go winner uh katie did mention she does have her

heart broken this episode yeah take that into consideration but uh predictions going forward yeah greg has definitely been who i thought was going to be the winner for a long time i think as we've gotten to know michael i think he's going to get very far i think he could be like number three but i think it's probably really hard for katie to know that you know once you get down to the end and know that this person could be it knowing his story you know i'm sure that takes a lot for knowing that his heart will always be with and and him being a father and his heart will always be with his his wife and that's something once you get to the end probably that's really hard to accept so i think he'll get very far

because he's such a lovely person but so i'm guessing him at like three or four definitely think justin will go top four too i think you know after that so who's your top yeah so we got yeah i'm gonna say i'm gonna say that's as i say i'm gonna say michael and oh is he four three i'm i'm thinking i'm thinking three and then and justin at four and then yeah knowing that the greg thing happens and after what you just said maybe maybe i'm gonna be surprised i didn't think mike mike could get to the end but maybe he does get to the final four and you know maybe he's one of our last ones and blake for sure like you said um but i but given that we've heard a lot about the greg i thought he was going to be number one maybe he doesn't even make a top four maybe we still have andrew but also katie mentioned that

the season ends differently so there might not even really be a top might not even be a four yeah they might like it might just go because usually by most seasons they'll once you're at a time of the top four there's a clear single exit for each one and it sounds like that's we're not going to get that so damn Andrew's a sleeper you're right they did have a really great date and I don't think well they've showed it and they showed it again

the next day where she's like Andrew yeah so he's definitely going far man I haven't honestly didn't think about top four but yeah that's a tricky Andrew leave I don't see it because whoever leaves will be vilified oh whoever breaks katie's heart will be vilified i can only imagine it being greg or it could be you know what it could be michael because he has a son and seeing that well michael will not be vilified no no no no oh you think

whoever it is there definitely will be i think the might might i think michael's the obvious guess because he has a son. So there's this built in, of course, he's going to... But Michael, while he might not know what the world is like, I think Michael knew what he was getting into. Yeah, of course. He knew he had a son. So I think Michael's the obvious one.

And it won't be the... I think it's going to be Greg. It's Greg. I think it's Greg too. I's Greg I think it's Greg too I think Greg breaks her heart I think so oh and then

he's checking she's checking in with too much and they she could be checking in and not show they could not be showing of course there's a reason why

we're seeing every time Katie's like do you still like me totally do you still like me yeah yeah I love you I'm in love

we saw Katie say she's falling in love with him yeah which was a big moment yeah it's like middle of the season like we don't you know so there's a in love with them. Yeah. Which was a big moment. Yeah. It's like, well, this season,

like we don't, you know, so there's a part where my dad was like, does she do this to everybody? Like the first time viewers. Nope. Only if he's about to break her heart. I love when you explain this show to people who don't know.

They're like, so is he just doing this all the time or what? Well, that's my guess. I could be way off, but I think, I think you're right though. I guess is going to be Greg. and i think she ends up with blake and uh yeah but but it doesn't seem

like it they seem like they have a really passionate thing but from the outside looking in it doesn't seem like it's something that will last blake and katie i don't think so you know i think i think it could last for a certain amount of time but well the odds are stacked against any couple of course true yeah hey i got married in three months uh and people were like y'all are You don't think so? I think it could last for a certain amount of time. Well, the odds are stacked against any couple. Of course. True. Yeah. Hey, I got married in three months.

And people were like, y'all are definitely going to break up. This is not working out. I proposed to my wife three months into dating. And yeah, all the friends were like, this is crazy. There you go. So that's why I believe in the show too. Yeah. And what do we know about any of these connections in real life?

But I think Katie and Blake have the show too. Yeah. And what do we know about any of these connections in real life? But I think Katie and Blake have the best chance. Yeah. And he's accepted the process the most too, which I think is probably a big part of going through this and getting to the end of it, you know? And I think just, I think Katie, I don't know. I'm curious. We didn't ask what Katie's love language is,

but if I had to guess, I bet it's words of affirmation uh and and Blake is very expressive yep um I think he really is good at letting whoever he knows he likes to him feel it that's not Greg Greg is not and I I think Blake will make Katie feel loved in the manner in which she needs to feel loved, to feel confident and secure in a relationship. And that's why I think they have the best chance. No, you're right. To be my guess. Yeah.

Katie, let us know if words of affirmation is, in fact, your love language. And I've got that whole interview on my phone. I will not leak it, but I will listen to it every day. And once they end up together. Yeah, that's right. That'd be great. Oh my God. So good.

Max, this has been so much fun. So much fun, man. Thanks for coming. Please let the audience know where they can digest your wonderful voice and music. I know you have some new music coming out. You got Butterfly, Lights Down Low, which is a great song. I've listened to Lights Down Low probably a hundred times. You helped me buy my house.

Thanks. It's on my liked songs on Spotify. Dude, I'm honored. Thanks. Yeah, no, yeah. I got music out. It's Max, all capital letters, three big letters, one small guy.

And yeah, you know, it's out there. At Max Music, at Max when I could get it, you know, TikTok and stuff. I got lucky, but thanks for listening. And yeah, it was such a pleasure to do this song on the show i'm just grateful to be part of the universe now and with this specific one since it's so special to me and it's the sequel to lights down low i keep saying that because i wrote lights down low for my wife and proposed to her with that song and then you know we just had our daughter and this was sort of the she's

the best she's she's awesome uh so she's but she's so funny like it you know married to a singer she's always like i love the songs but like i really just want you to do the dishes it's really she's like this would be in a lot more i know you came home and wrote this song but could you just like you know like make the bed every day and i'd be happier you know it's the real life problems there you go well you are uh a really truly talented musician and singer and i hope the world gets to hear more of you. You're a great guy. You're a great runner. You're just,

you're just, thank you. Great at staying active. That's a pleasure. Really, really pleasure. Thank you for, for coming on.

Thanks for listening guys. As always, don't forget to click on that link in our bio vote for the bio files under society and best podcasts under society and culture and, you know, top male host if you want. But really I do, I do appreciate you guys supporting the show.

It really does mean a lot. And we are back tomorrow with the legendary Steve. Oh, crazy. Subscribe five stars, all that fun stuff. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.