The Viall Files - E293 The Bachelorette Recap With Zuri Hall

Episode Date: July 20, 2021

Today we are recapping The Bachelorette with one of our favorite television personalities, the one and only Zuri Hall. First Nick and Zuri give their thoughts on the cast of Paradise and what they are looking forward to the most with some of their favorite cast members. Then we break down this weeks episode, covering everything from Greg’s second one on one, thoughts on fantasy suites, Andrew’s exit, and those amazing group date paintings. Get ready for a full analysis of this weeks episode and where we think the season will go from here.  You can see more Zuri Hall on Access Hollywood and on American Ninja Warrior on Monday Nights on NBC.  “Is Katie an F-Boy? ” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today!   Don't forget to nominate The Viall Files for a People's Choice Podcast Award: https://www.podcastawards.com/   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:   The Zebra: http://www.thezebra.com/VIALL Save time and money, compare quotes for free today    Each & Every: http://eachandevery.com/VIALL use promo code VIALL30 to get 30% off your first purchase.  Shipstation: http://www.shipstation.com enter offer code VIALL to get a 60-day free trial.  Canva: http://www.canva.me/VIALL to get your FREE 45-day extended trial.  Chime: http://www.chime.com/VIALL to apply now.    Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @zurihall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I am your host, Nick, and we have a fantastic episode recap for you today. a fantastic episode recap for you today mostly because uh a wonderful guest zuri hall is back with us to break down this episode of the bat charrette zuri how are you okay i was like do i get to talk because last time i was like hello everybody and you were like it's not yeah no i'm definitely gonna ask you to like shut up for a second okay i can do that i can do that i'm just kidding no but how are you i'm good i'm good'm good. I've been really busy between Access Hollywood and Ninja Warrior airing Monday nights on NBC. I'm busy. That's awesome.

I have no complaints. How are you? So good. I got a dog. Did you? My puppy comes tonight. Really? First time dog owner reporting for duty.

I got my puppy at night too. Really? It was like a weird like hey it's like one in the morning like nice to meet you go to bed right um i'll see you in the morning what kind of dog it's a australian cobra dog he's like in the doodle family okay i've got a little doodle action too we're doing a toy golden doodle okay so we'll have similar looking yeah we'll have we'll have to have a play date i can't wait it's your first dog first dog 100% it was my first dog I'm just I'm ready to love something

I was so I'm obsessed I'm excited Nick's doing play dates like I never thought I'd see the day I'm literally getting a tattoo of Jeff on my body is that the name of the dog his name's Jeff I love that

yeah there he is oh stop it right now wait what are you sure it's not a golden doodle 100 well australian copper dog is a type of golden doodle it's just like a fancy one it's like thicker coat yours is a redhead like mine yeah they're gonna look pretty similar oh my goodness mine will be about 30 pounds when he's done okay got it mine will be about 10 to 12 so they have a play date like i'm obsessed like i miss them right now like i just want to wrap this up so i can go home and cuddle with them okay well i need like pro tips after this about the first week with a puppy because i'm a little anxious i think i was too yeah but i think you're gonna be it's gonna be great in good hats uh before we get into our recap just a couple uh housekeeping notes uh be going to be in good hands. Before we get into our recap,

just a couple housekeeping notes. Be sure to go in and check out our Ask Nick episodes that dropped on Monday for some hard-hitting relationship advice and stories. Don't forget to nominate The Vile Files for top podcast under Society and Culture and top male host. If you want, we'd appreciate it. Always appreciate your guys support.

We have a great episode for you. Wednesday with a very talented and wonderful Olivia O'Brien. She joins us to just talk about life and get her thoughts on relationships, dating, music, all sorts of fun things. I think that's covers it all, Chrissy. That's it.

Should we get to Grit Tazuri? Yeah. Katie? I've been waiting here forever. And does Greg like Katie? That would be nice. All right. Let's get to it.

Before we get into The Bachelorette, let's just spend a few minutes talking about the cast of The Bachelor in Paradise that was recently released, if you will. Some nice characters, a lot of the familiar faces, some of Katie's men. We're now seeing Aaron, Connor, James. Trey. Grocery storee's making a comeback uh and uh yeah some guys from um some gals from uh matt james this season it's an all-star cast no i

think will be interesting tammy trey's on there it's always my favorite time of year when they release the bachelor in paradise cast because it's always my favorite time of year uh when they released the bachelor in paradise cast because it's always that time where other alumni from the franchise will lie and go out of their way to do like interviews and talk how they it just wasn't the right time for them and uh you know the producers asked me if i wanted to go on the show but it just didn't feel right like i'm here to tell you that they're all lying they begged uh and they didn't get and they didn't get on listen and i'm sure there's some exceptions the rule and that's not to say there are people who the producers wanted that opted not to come we just don't hear from them they don't go out and

give interviews and talk about how it wasn't the right time for them and they're just in a different stage of their life like they all begged to go on this damn show didn't get on and now they're here to let everyone know that they didn't really just wasn't for that it happens every every year it's always my favorite time i'm like like, yeah, you begged. You begged. And then there's plenty of people who, like I said, you just don't hear from the people who actually turned it down. It's always hysterical.

Do you have any people you're excited to see? I'm excited to see Natasha in Paradise. Natasha, yes. Natasha's there. Natasha, a good friend. I saw her in New York afterwards. I asked her how it went and uh just spoiler alert for Natasha she just said she cried the whole time did she which I felt bad as a friend but also as a viewer yes tell me more I'm super excited sorry Natasha's crying I hope

they're happy tears she's torn between so many love interests tbd i hope that's it tbd yeah well we'll just dot dot dot that uh anyone anyone else um i'm i'm excited to see joe make a comeback for sure too i'm curious to see how that'll play out but i would say those are the two for me that i'm most interested in seeing what goes down do you have any that you're you're rooting for rooting for strong word choice yeah casually interested in i'm curious how abigail does obviously she was a big fan favorite of matt james season but like the biggest kind of fade out from a first impression rose we've seen in a long time so like she really she has an up you know can she make a comeback after kind of you you know, flatlining on the, on the bachelor?

Yeah. Um, I'm really curious who the big question is, you know, you have, it's always where like the villain on the bachelor, it's, it's a,

it's always the person who comes in bachelor in paradise, rather comes in feeling themselves from the, from the attention and love and adoration they got from their previous season and they come in thinking everyone's gonna like me and i'm here and they get a little caught up in the attention and and um and i'm always curious who's that going to be do i feel like you just directly looked at someone that you think it's gonna well i think yeah well you you know like let's just look at your it's it's the people who who again were america's sweethearts so like um brendan might could possibly he's he's uh ian uh connor b maybe okay like any of these guys who are just like unproblematic sweethearts

about to black it up in paradise easily could go in there like again it's it's the classic it's blake you know where um like not then you're gonna have your opposites the queen the victorias and all that stuff that come in the ones who are doing the interviews and doing all that stuff and are like trying to show that they've changed from the show. And this is their like try at redemption because Paradise, no offense, Nick, is a place for people to try and have that redemption story come through. Yeah.

There's only one Ben Higgins. And everyone else is just someone who wishes they were, but they're just a fuckboy deep down. And that's okay. But like, don't be showing up thinking that you can keep letting America think you're Ben Higgins when you're not. Ben Higgins, long may he reign. So, all right, well, let's get into this episode.

How are you enjoying this season so far, Zuri? I am enjoying it. This is the most non-toxic experience at from a viewer's perspective that I think I've had and at first I was like oh is it boring with with you know all of the drama getting out of the way earlier on but I kind of love it like watching this last episode um I was like nothing crazy had to happen nothing unbelievable and yet I enjoyed it that the rain scene was a little bit on the nose, but otherwise. I kind of liked it. I mean, at the end I did.

I was like, oh my God, I'm leaving love again. But to start, I was like, okay, they're like on the back lot, right? Yeah, it's interesting that you said that. It's a very, in a lot of ways, a non-toxic season. And yet I agree, I have been enjoying it. I think there's been plenty of interesting drama like last episode was kind of a throwaway uh but we're you know this this episode seemed to be a little more meaningful and like you know we're getting back to some like meaningful

storylines as we kind of get into the uh the tail end of the season yeah Yeah. And I think a lot of that, you got to give Katie credit for being a very kind of open and, you know, she's always kind of communicating her feelings again, whether you agree with her decisions or disagree. And, you know, I've loved Katie as a bet trip, but there have been moments where I'm like,

not my favorite Katie moment or whatever, but either way she is, she's kind of facilitating the drama and i don't mean like and again in a toxic way but she is through her openness and kind of just always kind of letting america know how she's thinking and feeling is kind of leading to some captivating stuff each and every we can't say enough about how great this natural deodorant is. I use it every day. Natalie is now on the each and every train. If you're going to put, you want to smell good with not putting toxic things on your body.

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That's two months free of no hassle, stress-free shipping. Just go to ShipStation.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page, and type in VIALL. That is ShipStation.com. Enter code VIALL. Make ship happen. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, she's so emotionally intelligent. She's so in touch with who she is and what she wants and what she doesn't.

And I also appreciate that she doesn't waste time when she knows she doesn't want to think. Outside of that whole Andrew moment at the end of the episode that kind of like went back and forth for a while. Yeah, we'll get into that. That was kind of like went back and forth for a while we'll get into that that was kind of nonsense yeah um so the episode opens with um we're just kind of well it's just the date card right it's great great gets the first one-on-one the best one-on-one he gets a great one-on-one i gotta say i mean i think the producers are caring less and less about love why because they were tossing the fish around no i mean again it's a it's a we you know it's quarantine bachelor right so it's it's a different they have less time i think they're filming in six

seven weeks rather than eight nine weeks something like that but at most seasons two or three people before hometowns like the the front runners are getting their second one-on-one and greg is the only one who's getting two one-on-ones it was kind of the same for matt james's season by the time you got to the end you're like half these people here still like have had no time with the lead right and it's just like they're just like you fuck it you don't really get the need to know this person you'll right the the bubble will make you fall in love we don't really give a shit honestly it happened to a lot of people in the pandemic yeah you just stuck with somebody and you're like this will do like whatever so it's just kind of fascinating just to like

realize that you know greg well greg's gotten time no one else is even close to the time that greg has gotten and they obviously talk you know there's you got mike and you got brendan you know and it's pretty obvious going in that those guys are going home this week. A hundred percent. But, you know, right off the bat. So like classically, you're going to give Greg the first one on one because that's going to create a tension with everyone else. These guys really clearly love each other. I think more than they like Katie because there really is no animosity.

That's what i'm saying you're just like hey man like greg's just like oh shit and they're like hey man it's cool like good for you you deserve it you deserve this more than anyone else in the house i'm like dude you're in the house i'm so confused um so yeah i think they clearly are are into each other um and then they go on a date i i like the date i it was listen there they are stuck in the same damn place it's been even this episode it was kind of funny they're even airing some of the guys and katie being like oh it's the same room that we have all these dates and just decorated slightly differently um so i thought it was cute you know like this is an opportunity for

katie you know greg to get into katie's hometown a little bit i thought it was i thought it was cute you know like this is an opportunity for Katie you know Greg to get Katie's hometown a little bit I thought it was I thought it was set up really really cute once again Katie is checking in with Greg and not the other way around they seem to be really setting it up for I thought a lot about our interview with katie when she came in here on a couple things and she katie had mentioned one of the biggest things that she mentioned she legit got her heart broken so we're all like when's the shoe gonna drop who's gonna break her heart now some she also suggested that she got real physical with mike on our podcast. Wait, the cuddle session? That didn't seem to happen.

So now Katie's credibility when it comes to her heartbreak is in question. You don't know what to believe. I don't know what to believe. We'll get to that. We'll get to Mike's date in a second. But they are really setting it up for Greg to be the one who breaks Katie's heart. The only, yeah, if it was any guy i would think it was him because it seems that she's he's the one that she has the the strongest

connection with right now but walking away from this episode i am super team greg i felt like katie was the one who was pulling back a little bit or maybe not giving as much as you'd expect maybe it's because she feels like okay i don't know if i can trust this guy with my heart because when he finally goes there and he says you know i'm falling in love with you she kind of said everything except that yeah and then the the confessional moment where she's like was that no that wasn't um who was she talking to was she talking to greg when she's like I'm falling in away I mean in love I mean oh my god it's just so crazy

like you forget how to say I'm falling in love with you and I was like what no I think it was Greg was it Greg y'all know what I'm saying yeah that was Greg yeah she was doing

yeah she was kind of doing oh my god like like she stumbled over right but to me it was it was odd in that it feels like when you're supposed to like a guy

are you falling in love and you're like yeah for sure no that's totally what's happening but you can't even buy the bs that you're like selling oh you yeah but i don't i don't believe they have so much chemistry like i love them together you think they have chemistry i thought by the end of the day yeah he sold me so or maybe i just i like greg i'm like but there's you know there's a lot of it's the the greg's a fascinating character because he's clearly a fan favorite but weirdly enough there's also like this kind of small group of like we don't trust greg apparently he went to acting school at some point can the man act like let him have a career passion if you went to acting school that doesn't

mean you can't like fall in love and be sincere right like anyone who's went to acting school, that doesn't mean you can't like fall in love and be sincere. Right. Anyone who's went to acting school is like, oh, well, never trust an actor. You know, like, I don't think that's quite fair. However, however, I'm having a hard time believing that Greg is really into Katie. It just I don't. And that maybe could be his low energy i don't know i don't see greg's chemistry with katie his words seem to fall flat and i ask myself what if what if

greg and thomas are the exact same and greg is just better at what he's doing. Interesting theory. What if he's just not coming so hard to the paint, so to speak. He's slow playing a little. Just like, yeah, slow burn. Maybe the acting school is in fact paying off. Method.

I could see that only because when they were like, Greg, you're getting the one-on-one date. And it was the most unenthusiastic, underwhelming, oh, my God. I can't believe it. This is crazy. I was like, does this guy even want to go on this date with her? But then they started tossing the fish, and I was like, it's true love.

I'm easily pleased. It doesn't take much. He's a very charming guy. I love how when Katie checked in with him again, and then I wondered this because I'm like, oh, she's checking in again, him again. And then I thought, you know, wait, when I was, when I was, because I've kind of related to like,

when I really liked Vanessa, like there is a, whenever the lead like zeroes in on someone there is a legitimate fear they have I'm like what if the person I like the most doesn't like me back right and so the question is is that what we're seeing from Katie but then I thought you know what I always checked in like even people I knew I wasn't going to end up with I'd be like so how's this going for you how are you doing I probably did that with everyone I think I forgot about it and so they but what we do know is the show is continues to air these check-ins that katie has with greg how are you how are you i don't think that's an

accident i don't know what it's going to tell us but whether katie's only checking in with greg or the show has decided to only air these check-ins with greg there is a build-up there's a build-up it's it's not an accident i love again maybe this is the acting school and greg i don't i don't know but i love how greg very calmly listened to her question she's like it seems like you're gonna leave and grave this gave this kind of montage of like in the longest possible way i said i know i'm really good looking now but i used to like be short and skinny and I didn't get much attention. And like my greatest weakness is like not realizing how amazing I am kind of thing.

Right. It's like the job interview. What's your weakness? I just try really hard. I just try really hard. And I just give my all. And sometimes. My mom doesn't, tells me I don't realize that I'm a 10 when I realize, I think I'm a six

and it's super weird. And I just can't imagine. Like, okay. I know. okay because he was talking about was it the bullying he said growing up that's the only part where i briefly questioned the sincerity because obviously we know that katie um is not not dealing with the bs not dealing with the bullying and she shut that down obviously in matt's season and it was a theme early on in her season and so it kind of felt like I'm gonna slide in this thing that I know yeah will like pull at her heartstring and I don't doubt that at some point in his life Greg was bullied or picked on I'm not trying to take that away from him but I I just I'm I just I don't buy Michael's into Katie Blake's into Katie I I don't see Michael's into Katie, Blake's into Katie.

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Chime.com slash V-I-A-L-L for details. Huh. I don't. Nobody. Am I the only one? I'm. I could be wrong. Yeah. Am I just I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I guess I'm just. Well that. Greg supply right now. I like Greg.

I just don't know if I see the – If he likes Katie. I don't think he likes Katie. Okay. All right. But are you only thinking that, Nick, because Katie said that she's waiting for someone to heartbreak, give her – to break her heart so that you're analyzing it differently when you're watching it?

Because I kind of feel like Zuri where I get like emotional connected to like – It's possible, but I guess I just don't buy it. I could be wrong. I just – Do you you buy and is there any one connection that you feel like okay this is real and it's mutual well i have said that again i i hate this because like who am i like what do i know about katie's interest or connection i wasn't there but i feel like katie should pick blake because I think that seems to be the strongest mutual connection. OK.

Like, I think Katie is sincerely into Blake. I think Blake's sincerely into Katie. I think right now Katie might be more into Greg. Right. I think Michael's into Katie. I don't think Katie's really into Michael. Right. OK.

Right. That makes sense. And I got to say, out of all of those potential pairings, to Michael. Right. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. I gotta say out of all of those potential pairings nothing screams let's get married to me at all. And I don't really know how Well it is The Bachelorette. Right. But sometimes

I feel like there's someone where I could see okay you guys could somehow get swept up in this and propose and be like high on the love vibes for a little while i don't see anyone doing that and feeling like even in the moment it was a good idea maybe from the men's perspective i could see blake and katie i could see you see him proposing proposing yeah i'm not saying not together i'm saying well, well... I think... I don't know.

Like, I still take this seriously, okay? When they get down on the knee, I'm like, they're committing to forever. This is a big deal. Granted, I'm the only one, but still. Blake, and I guess I can relate to Blake, and you saw this a lot this episode. Like, Blake has this,

I've done this once, I'm here, fuck here fuck it like i'm just going for it and he definitely the kind of uh first time rookie nerve so to speak blake doesn't have like in a way where he's kind of even again these guys are really nice because bl Blake is talking to these guys in a way that could easily other men could find triggering. It could be used against him when he's just like, I've been in your shoes before, man. I know what it's like. It's so patronizing. It's so patronizing. And these guys are fine with it.

It's kind of incredible. It's like a really good group of humans. Yeah. Very patient. Ellie has something. My question was, like, do you think when Blake was saying that, he's like, guys, as someone who's done this

before, if you don't have a one-on-one by this point, you're kind of screwed. Like, was he actually trying to, like, give them advice from someone who's done it, or was he trying to, like, plant seeds of doubt so that people would be like, I gotta and he's like guess i'm the only one left i don't think blake has a manipulative bone in his body i could i could be wrong i i don't i don't have that much faith in him that he would be that machiavellian i think he's a part of the show is what you know they're sitting there for 20 minutes while they're all like giving their two cents on the

situation which is like greg just got another one-on-one and brendan and and michael are are sitting there or brendan and mike and i think yeah he's just that's just what they air yeah he's saying what he knows and i i don't think he's doing it to mess with him and he's not wrong like he's like you legit have no shot right you know um i thought blake did brendan a favor because as we now know we get the group date card brendan's name is not on it and i'm just here to say like for everyone listening to this podcast, someone listening to this podcast is going to have a friend in the future

who gets casted on the show. And I'm just here to tell you to sit that friend down and say, if you make it to the week before hometowns and you don't get a one and you haven't had a one-on-one yet and then you and you are finding yourself in brendan's shoes because brendan is not the first time to be the person in this in this position and if you are given the opportunity after you receive the disappointing

news that you're just not going to get a one-on-one and you get the opportunity to talk to the lead, here's what you do. You just go in and you just knock on their door and you say, Hey, can I sit down? And you just compliment the shit out of them. You're like, you know, I just want you to know I've had an amazing time.

It's just, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you. I'm so grateful, but you know, clearly, you know, as much as I really like you and i feel connection obviously you have some great guys here and because i didn't get a one-on-one i i think

i want you to focus this limited time you have on the guys clearly you have stronger connections with and i think i should just go and i just i'm just here to thank you and you're amazing but like i feel so reverse psyched right now like what's happening do i keep you now and you exactly and you just you still go but instead it's always they go in there and brennan's just like he sits down all slow and he's just like and then you get these like montages and these itms of like if i just get like 20 minutes with her i know she'll keep me and he's just like and i get it but like there's no way she's she already knows you're going home

she already knows man like that week started with like who do we keep around so we can get them to show up to their door and beg all while knowing and then like that it's always a classic case of well because you came to my door and you dumped all your feelings on me i now realize i it's just not fair to keep you around right and just beat them to the punch yeah like beat the lead or the producers to the punch and just show up and say i'm out it's time for me to go thank you you're the greatest there's some great people here i want you out. It's time for me to go. Thank you. You're the greatest. There's some great people here. I want you.

It doesn't make sense for me to still be here. I can't thank you enough. But do you not feel like sometimes the guys or the women just get into game mode and you want to win? 100%. 100%. And that's why I'm just saying, if you are listening to this podcast and you have a friend who goes on, just sit them down and and say a lot of possibilities might happen but if you find yourself in this specific situation do this because it just every

season yeah they find someone who's willing to just go there and just say things like i know i'll get them to like me yeah when they already decided they don't and it's just an awkward moment that no one needs no one needs and it's just as soon as brendan showed up at the door i was like oh god he sat down on the couch like all slowly and was just like hey yeah just so hey how's it going you know like and i'm sure he's a really nice guy And he was just kind of, but it's like, and he's not the first, he won't be the last. This is going to happen next season and no one's going to listen to me,

but I just want that to happen. I'm not going to lie. Even hearing you say that, if I was in Brendan's shoes, walking into a season, I'd still would do what he did. Probably. I would just,

cause you're trying to convince yourself. Like if I just had, even if it's not true and you know, it's a competition and you feel like you haven't gotten this time you think you're charming you think you're interesting you think if you have more time you guys would have a connection so you think 20 minutes might buy it yeah and then we'll just go look like fools in front of america but yeah he was fine he looked a little awkward and it was just but it's cringe because the whole time, you know, and when they're, when they're doing this kind of montage,

they're clearly not looking at the person they're talking to because in America is, because you can see that kind of. Right. Katie, the whole time was just like, and then he's like, well,

you can be drinking beers with my dad. And she's like, Oh, I hate beer. I hate that. Yeah. Exactly. It was like, dude, you can be drinking beers with my dad and she's like oh i hate beer i hate that exactly it's like dude just yeah and you're just like as soon as he stops talking you know what's gonna come it's just like well now i don't think it'd be fair to go on this group date i never meant for you to be on but yeah so true if it doesn't make sense like

if you thought you're going home and you didn't go home you're still going home you just you're getting home in a different more like like you'll be a focus right so just like embrace your storyline and go out gracefully whoever does that i promise you promise you, there's no way they'll be able to edit around it. Right. It's your going home, and everyone will love you for being like the self-aware, selfless guy who could have more air time but chooses to give it to his guys and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Is this bachelor strategy is this how he pivots out of bachelorette and into the top spot for oh brandon no really just anybody any guy in that no because in this position or or girl because it happens on the bachelor maybe paradise okay but like this someone is like clearly isn't. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, to be honest, like other than what I mean, in terms of Brendan's love story with Katie wasn't much different than Katie's love story with Matt. The difference being Katie was more willing to stick her nose and conflict and and and was able to rise above because there was a lot of cattiness and and mean girl of that season and and katie benefited from being seemingly the more mature person and then that was really her storyline it wasn't her love story with matt

exactly at all yeah um so maybe like i guess in that I guess it could be in a sense I don't know if Brendan was ever going to be the bachelor but I wouldn't bet on it but it was still either way it's a way for listen your best moment is always when you get broken up with so like do the most with that moment

and don't grovel and say like baby if you just listen to me and we can be together forever when we have nothing really to go on, it's never going to go well. Right, fair. I totally agree.

I agree with that. Anywho, so we go to the group date. I felt like we were missing something because like, you know, they have this art and all these like sexual endoeddles popped up and i'm thinking like i see a vase or like clearly like it was like the artist's like rendering of her self-portrait of her anatomy but like before she showed up was it obvious that it was like her interpretation of a vagina or, or am I just like,

because that's what they were all like insinuating. It was only obvious to me because of how the guys were reacting. That's what I'm saying. It was like, all of a sudden they were like super uncomfortable and Andrew's like, like, and I was like, what?

And again, yeah, that's why I was just like, maybe they, again, they're probably sitting there for 20 minutes and they're like, no, but do you see what we,

like, I don't know. It's like a fucking, it looks like a vase. I don't, I don't know don't know like a chalice i don't know but apparently chalices isn't no i get it once you once to ellie's point once they were like oh and i'm like oh i okay i get what they're hinting at but like i wouldn't have walked in and be like oh my god right right right vagina flower what are these like art yeah what did you think of the the group date did you like it i don't i don't yeah whatever whatever honestly i hate to just say whatever but that's kind of how i felt about it

do we have any guesses of Blake's drawing? I mean, a full black box. Full black box. Which is just like stick figures doing it doggy style. Probably. Oh, yeah. Justin. Justin won the night with his. He's so cute.

He really is just, that was really the peak, Justin. We've seen his reactions to anything. anything right his reaction was the best on that day oh it was the best right andrew getting kissed by katie and he breaks the fourth wall looking right at the camera and good for the show for for airing that they don't often do that um and i love that because it's weird because it depends on the bachelorette like sometimes they're very careful about like make hard makeouts in front of other people and others don't i mean the bachelor bachelors usually don't do that they have a harder time getting away with that uh katie's going in for the kill doesn't care care. I love it. It's confirmed. Katie is definitely a hard maker outer.

Yeah. Yeah. She like she gets in there. The Greg kit like it's it's it wasn't it's definitely Katie. Yeah. Sure. I was like blaming Connor B. But she she is.

She knows what she wants. She commits. She is digging for the back of that throat. It looks good, though. Like, whatever is happening, it doesn't look painful. Like, I've seen some pretty aggressive makeouts where I'm like, no parties can be enjoying this. She is leading the kissing, though. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying.

I think that's not bad, right? It just depends. Oh, tell me more. What's... Well, it just depends. i've sometimes it can catch you off guard oh no i don't i'm not saying should i'm not in any way but like she uh there's you you know it's all chemistry right like she is consistently a hard maker out her i'm not critiquing it other than the fact I'm just saying that it exists. It's observational reporting. Yes.

But it is a thing. It is. And so she's, you know, and I bring that up only because she's hard making out with Andrew, who we later find she's about to send home. And then they made out again before he got in the car. And I was like, well, why are we still kissing when it's over? And then i just decided she just really likes to make out she likes a good she likes a good make out it's a

kiss um katie really sets the stage going into the cocktail portion like the the day portion is kind of again whatever nothing really happens there's nothing and nothing's escalated there's really no drama at this point it's harder to find the drama when you got like six guys who seem to all really like each other um but katie kind of sets the stage home you know we're we're beaten down like this is hometowns this is hometowns and so yeah we get a bunch of like conversations just you know it's weird because like justin came out of nowhere in terms of his relationship with katie katie was mentioning we should watch out for just. We should watch out for Mike. I don't see the connection between Katie and Justin. Do you?

No, not at all. Justin is so handsome. I love them visually together, but I don't feel a connection at all. So when Katie was on our podcast, Katie had mentioned that, we talked a lot about Thomas at at the time and she had mentioned and good for katie for flat out saying i wanted to take him to home uh to fantasy suites to sleep

with him like it was she was very forward about like listen probably not my guy but he's that he looked like a nice thing and i wanted and to katie's credit she seems like she is going to approach fantasy suite as a way not only to solidify relationships but to like leverage the freedom that is given to the lead and i think she is strategically picking her top three and you know how we kind of always talk about like the the fuck mary kill game i think katie is playing a game of fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck mary in her head and justin is a guy she's like i i want to have sex with him not bad at it justin is in the top like and there's no connection it's like right you can paint flowers we're never gonna end up together but i want to have sex. And I applaud this. Same. And there's no criticism whatsoever, but she has been very upfront about that.

And nothing makes sense. Is Katie an F-boy? I love it. I mean that endearingly. Like a little bit, you know, because like I always joke. I mean, Katie, Katie Fox. Yes. Actually, she is.

That's her right. That's her right. My friends and I always joke about that, you know, like it's good to have a little F-boy in you because that's the only way to navigate a world full of fun i think it's totally fine she's she's and she's not a she's not a player yeah she's a fuck boy there is a difference she sets up for upfront expectations you know what it is if you decide to engage that's a you thing now now again now she might because she is the bachelorette and stuck in this world that forces you to like talk about feelings. She could be setting herself up to be cute, be accused of being a player with Justin.

Because what we don't know is there is there like a mutual like. We're and we know what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. We're just I'm going home after fancy sweets maybe maybe not i don't know but we i think we agree that if there is a romantic connection they're hiding it from us we haven't seen it yet yeah but i after talking to katie on the podcast and her referring to thomas i i think andrew because like clearly the connection between her and Andrew like riveting

super intense riveting also so hot oh my gosh wait maybe you're right she does just want to hook up with Justin she's just like

I'm not going to end up with Andrew Greg and Blake are my top two oh my gosh so I just want to and I definitely would rather see

Justin naked I could see that because it didn't make sense when Andrew left I was like why is she still crying like she easily could have kept him she felt bad she's like he's nice and he's great but like i would rather see justin naked yeah yeah actually i'm inclined to agree with you i see that perspective and i respect that she slept with andrew it would be too emotional is what you're saying right now is that what you're saying? I think that's nice.

But I really, and again, I think this is a selfish choice on Katie's point. And I mean that in a positive way. She's just not, she's like, I want to see him naked. It goes that far. The thought process. And all that is like a nice, like, yeah, I don't want to hurt him either. But like. Got it.

She's trying to not that deep. Get to it. I don't think it's well hopefully it is oh but like you know what i'm saying but um yes i think yeah i'm i'm confident in my guess analysis um so anything else that we're missing from the group date i mean andrew did that cute little thing for her with like that was like the big setup right like he did the lights thing and then the card from the thing that they did before and then it was like i'm falling for you so it was like super emotional it was like a setup for

like a super look i bought it hook line and sinker i was a mess i was a mess oh we could talk about justin's painting for example i i actually know the butterfly i appreciate justin what he did who was the one who said like he drew a nice rose and the rest was oh blake well first of all they probably had 15 minutes so justin clearly is like i know how to draw a rose and then the rest he it's he threw in it's overall nice painting right i didn't i didn't uh this is so niche but it's it's like when you're babysitting kids and you're doing art and then you draw like a rose and then the kids like start to realize that you have a better painting and then they start drawing on top of it like that's what it looks like there's so much going on but i also think it was rushed because as they were leaving

the painting portion andrew talking about his sushi like in the background you could hear him talk to the guys and he was like all of a sudden they were like five minutes left so like clearly they like did not give them an indication of time threw that in interesting enough andrew's painting like avocado sushi but look if you looked at his painting that's the type of painting you could walk into like someone's house in brentwood and they'll be like i spent fifty thousand dollars in this because someone told me it was a hip artist and you'd be like like okay i guess but like you see shit like that all the time where like it like was this abstract yes piece of art where like clearly justin's had a really nice rose but like he'd filled it in where you could almost convince someone that andrews a work of art. Clearly it's not,

but like I've seen some dog shit paintings that someone told me they spent thousands of dollars because it's like it's the trendy new artist. So I don't know what that means, but I thought Andrews wasn't all that bad. What? Well, I'm like, but he was clearly like taking it like kind of joking, like, having a good time with it.

But do you think there's any way that that reveals, like, maybe Katie wanted someone who's going to take it, like, a little more seriously? In what way? Like, because he was just sort of, like, giggling. And I think there's no issue with that. Like, this is him letting loose, having fun, putting himself out of his comfort zone. loose having fun putting himself out of his comfort zone but like do you think the fact that he was kind of like giggly as he was presenting it is maybe part of the reason she sent him home versus where other guys are still take like a hundred percent earnest in it now i go back to my she wants to i go back to like the yeah it's all about the bedroom and i hope not because

katie's been a pretty good at knowing what's meant to be taken seriously and when you are meant to have fun. And I think it would be weird for Katie to all of a sudden decide, I'm going to take this moment very literal. Right. Bit of a hard turn. And they brought out an artist who's known for painting self-portraits of her anatomy, which is great.

But clearly on The Bachelorette, when you do that and then have guys and there was no like paint a picture of your anatomy it was just like there was really no focus it was meant it clearly silly and then oh by the way michael's sculpture funny i liked it his like view from behind i don't know good for him i don't know like it's funny you see your face why because that comment that came after wait what was the comment that came after it was so freaking funny it was just that he's like i don't know if michael's seen katie's ass but i hope that's not what it looks like the question is do you think do you think uh do you think michael included like the low-hanging fruit from the front or did you think he got detailed or was it just the butt like taint do you know like do you think he's just like you know was he trying to give like a

i i wonder if he went that far but because they blacked it out they couldn't like i don't know i was just thinking about wow taint she really just said maybe not i don't know um where do we go from here, Nick? I was surprised. It was interesting about that group date is that, well, Michael got the group date rose. I was a bit surprised, I guess. I thought I was going to go to Blake.

That was my guess at the time. They keep bringing, like, obviously, you know, we can go back to Michael talking to his son. If there's someone who leaves Katie, it's not going to be Michael. And I say that because it's not because Michael doesn't truly love his son. And it's not because it probably is really hard to be away from his son. But Michael's not going to leave at this point. He's been in this quarantine for this long. He's made it this far. It wouldn't make sense for michael to be like i can't do it anymore you know what i'm saying it just doesn't

add up and michael has talked about how hard it is to be away from his son his son but said hey listen there's you know there's a reason why i have you know i have to focus on my happiness so i can be my truth you know full self for him yeah and so it just doesn't make sense for michael to leave because of it if he leaves it's not going to be because of his son they clearly are setting it up that possibly that could happen but i don't buy it because he's been there for five weeks now like he can't one more week is it really gonna if he if he's really into katie it now. Like he can't one more week. Is it really going to, if he, if he's really into Katie,

it's not going to be why he, he leaves. Unless he starts to feel that the emotions are clearly stronger for someone else. And it's like, but then it will be because, you know, whatever Michael says,

it will be because you're, I'm your top three, not your top one or two and I got a kid right right but yeah I I don't I don't I don't think it's going to be Michael

so then we Mike Mike gets a date finally classically you know the virgin we're gonna awkward reminiscent of the Blake date with tasha with the kind of uh yoga whatever you know it's funny now katie mentioned again on the podcast that she like made it seem i don't know what you guys thought she made it seem like they might have even gotten a third base when she was here that was technically what that's a first she not she was she totally did she totally was like he's

got skills i just didn't know the final skill kind of thing yeah i was like do you guys have off camera time or like she really sold that wow she sold it i thought she was saying that about like he's done that before so like though he is a virgin he in a different relationship has had like has been she definitely said that but she spoke as if she had direct knowledge of these through her other skills now on the date there was some awkward giggling as they reference and i'm wondering and it seemed like there was like something going on between and like it's it like i think mike they were like i think they were just dry humping a couple of high school students and laughing about that.

And that's what Katie must have been talking about. Maybe. Was there much dry humping, though? Like it was, I always saw was the cradling and the hugging. I feel like if they dry humped, we would have seen that, especially coming from him. I don't know. I would have been kind of aggressive to air on abc don't you think if you saw like katie's straddling him and she's just like

slowly i can't that would have been man dry humping i don't doubt it happened there's a handful of moments like that like for example you, every often a hot tub moment or scene will end afterwards of the guy getting out of the hot tub and this stuff going on. And ABC is not black boxing the front of his like that happens. It's a pretty regular thing. And they're not showing that. Right. And like there are moments like that. And I'm just wondering if the giggling because it seemed like they were in on it together.

Yeah, it did. I didn't get that though. That's what's so interesting. I felt like Katie was giggling because she's like, what the hell is, what are we doing here? I could have been B-checked. She's already strategizing for the fantasy suites. So she's sitting here cuddling.

I thought they were going on like an ayahuasca journey for a minute. They like landed in the middle of the woods and this lady's just like ready to go. i think he was more into it i guess like just more he was willing to take it more seriously and i thought katie just couldn't take it seriously because what are we doing right now it felt awkward it could have easily been that and i might be projecting from our interview with katie wondering because she just i was just like oh i can't wait to see this like she talked about him like he might be top three yeah no that had you're going home written all over it the

entire time i watched so um and then when he kept bringing up his mom i was like what's going on let's go yeah i'm glad you brought that up um he has a close relationship with his mother i love that i don't want to hear that while i'm in what i hope is a semi-sexual embrace with you remind me so much of my mother do you think the show did him dirty or or that's just the or they accurately um highlighted the slightly uncomfortable relationship he might have with his mom. I think they accurately highlighted it because they can only work with what you say at the end of the day. It's one thing to cut and splice like a confessional moment. But if you guys are legit in the embrace also, and that's what you decide, that's the sweet nothing you whisper in my ear,

sir, it was nice knowing you. Have a great life i know i felt bad because you know like i'm not gonna knock a guy for loving his mom no of course not i love that for him i don't know if i've ever been hugging a girl let alone like lying down in a sweet embrace and i've been like you know you remind me of my mom my mom mom for the word cuddle and mom yeah like you cuddle and then he starts talking about like his cuddle experiences with his mom which all in a different context i great love i'm all about it yeah i've you know i love a mama's boy no i don't love moms but like i can respect a mama's boy i get it it just was permeating the

the entire date in a way that was just like what and i'm trying to like empathize with mike here because i just i don't want to like but but it was like and maybe it was because he never had time with katie yeah and here he's just like but you know the fact that he the virgin guy who has been holding out and and that takes a certain level of restraint and and you're bottling up emotions and and sometimes those emotions get leaked out in ways that like mom and and i guess you got you talk about mom it was look i will say this i do feel like he meant it as a compliment. It's funny. It's like, why are you bringing up your mom?

Really, I don't think there's much to read into there. But I know he meant it as a compliment. It's just like, dude, read the room. This is not. He 100% meant it as a compliment. Yeah. It was just, listen, I guess. And he was obviously talking about the nurturing aspect of like katie makes me feel safe and good

yeah and so does my mom but is that i almost feel back i feel like he definitely is gonna get roasted for it and i don't love that but it's hard not to talk about in a dress. And like just maybe going forward, don't bring up mom in the bedroom or like in a cuddle session or like on any day. Anything ever. Like if a girl says like, how's your relationship with mom? Love my mom. She's the best. Move on.

Yep. I don't. You probably don't need to like elaborate. You know, like you do not want to lean into the mama boy of it all it's like she's so my mom is just no one's like her being no one can be you know i don't so similar i only feel safe when i'm with my mom in my mom's arms do you have you ever dated a guy and i don't even know if michael said this but like like takes out my and just always calls her like you know when mom holds me like as if it's your mom too right like this is our mother like mom like universal mom of yeah mom have you ever dated a

guy have i ever no only if i was in a long-term relationship and we'd gotten to the point where Universal mom of... Yeah, mom of all. Have you ever dated a guy like that? Have I ever? No, only if I was in a long-term relationship and we'd gotten to the point where, okay, mom, like he knows who we're talking about. It is what it is. But I've never had a guy that I'm casually dating or dating for a few months drop that on me. That would be a little weird. But just a little bit.

I would probably still date that man. But I would just wonder why he was dropping them. Why? Is that a thing? You wouldn't do that, right? I've never done that. Yeah. But I've noticed,

I've had girlfriends do it and it's a little different because I- Oh, does it send your alarm bells ringing? Like, oh, mom, our mom. No, your mom. Well, maybe that's the mama boy in me where I'm like, what do you mean? Ain't no back at one mama.

No, no, no. I only have one mama. Back off. You're like, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. So maybe I just outed myself there. Okay, okay. But yeah, so Michael gets sent home.

Mike, whatever. Someone's called. I bet his birth name is Michael. Was Katie fake crying? Was that real? Right? That was a fake cry. It's like Greg gave her a little tutorial from his acting

school he's like so here's what you're gonna do when you send people home yeah yeah she and she leaned into it yeah all right and i will say it sucks breaking up with you i loved i love how katie mike mike goes i'd rather have my heart broken a thousand times. Then break a heart. And Katie's just like. Then break someone else's heart. Yeah. She's like, well, you're a fucking dick for making me feel like an asshole. Power move by Mike.

You know, we've been shitting on Mike a little bit for the mom comments, but that was a strong, whether he meant it or not. It's just like. And I don't think he meant it. I'm going to make this real painful for you. Like could never sign up yeah to be i don't know if i have what it takes to be a horrible person do you she like looks off into the distance she just goes yeah right that's awkward while he's wearing his cross like it's all angelic and that white outfit it sucks to get broken up with in a very vulnerable outfit he called himself he said he looked like a drug lord oh my god

i liked his little he had the black turtleneck with the chain and the little yeah i was like okay michael you've seen the movie forgetting sarah marshall yeah yeah yeah the opening scene where he's just like naked right and and she breaks up with him have you ever had a moment like that similar I one time I was we were like it wasn't the breakup but it was like uh we're taking a break and I was about to go running who was naked I was like I felt like uh Jason uh Siegel in that movie so i was running and i was putting my and i was wearing like and i like she caught me off guard with i was wearing a t-shirt and like and i had underwear on and i had my running shoes and shorts and i was just like i've been i've never felt more exposed

more exposed and unattractive in my life and this is the moment you're like it's she's breaking up with you with that oh my gosh and i oh that's and that was right when forgetting actually we saw forgetting sarah marshall together and i will say that movie got me through the breakup it's one of the best breakup movies of all time but it really wait i'm so curious as to why she chose that moment was it just like she's she's a, was it just, you know, like we're going back and forth casually talking and things go from zero to a hundred because I've been secretly planning the breakup. Probably.

I don't know. Did you put on your pants after, did you step out of it? Yeah, definitely went and finished and worked out. I couldn't get that. Like how I like looked in that moment. And I think,

you know, Michael wearing pajamas wasn't quite as bad, but he's just like, I can't, you know, Michael's clearly like kind of a more traditional conservative macho gym owner. Like he's just like fucking wearing pajamas,

but Godspeed, Michael. Yes. Yeah. I don't know. I'm rooting for you, Michael. See him in paradise.

Hard to have a virgin. I'm rooting for you, Michael. See him in paradise. Hard to have a virgin in paradise. I do not see Mike in paradise. So then we get to the rose ceremony. It's just rose ceremony time. Yeah. Yeah. We're there. I mean, I really was.

Who is it going to be? I was really. I will say I thought it was going to be Andrew was going to get the rose But there was something about Like I could be Justin And I was basing it off the Because like Justin made Again

Makes no sense Your theory is right It makes no sense Like he's got Like And so Then we get to the Andrew had a very

Bachelor audition send off. I'm for Andrew is the next bachelor 100%. He's my choice. Like, yeah, you can't say enough about like, he just has a good. He's a sweetheart. He's a sweetheart. He's funny.

He knows how to make fun of awkward situations in a playful, fun way. I do believe his sincerity. You know, he seems like a really uh nice guy i do like i don't think when when katie didn't give him the rose like it's it's kind of like again i've seen it rarely like andrew was in control of his emotions i think he was sad yeah but he was just like okay yeah i'm I think he was sad. Yeah. But he was just like, okay. Yeah. I'm bummed. He was fine.

And then you went through this whole... Oh, leading up to the rose ceremony, the Tayshia, Caitlyn, and Katie conversation, a little rougher on the edges. And I guess they're just there to set up the stakes of the show. And, you know yeah yeah and katie and katie's just like and caitlin's just like so i mean so like you have five great guys and only four roses and and i don't forget what katie said she's like absolutely yeah it was just very like it was a little generic generic very it's felt rehearsed it just i was like yeah i was hoping in that moment yeah to see a little bit more like girl

talk a little bit more this is what i when i went through this this is how i was feeling or this is the little nugget of advice i'd want you to take away before you go into that rose ceremony yeah and maybe they said that we didn't they didn't air it but it was a lot of katie just kind of talking like like in control of her emotions but talking as if like she wasn't yeah in a weird way right and then going through the motions of being torn even though she wasn't we even had yeah yeah exactly and then we even had one time had a a unison yes from Caitlin and Tasha. They were just so on the nose with it. Uh-huh. Yeah.

I can't. Chrissy, why? I feel that because we talked about this last week. And I mean, you're a host. I don't know how you feel about it, but we talked about this last week. There's this like missing like there's this missing like master of ceremony kind of kind of feeling to it and right and the girlfriend feeling isn't really like connecting with me i don't know about other people but like there's there's it's there's something missing there's the drama the like hard-hitting

conversation there's something missing there and i'm just like i'm over it well like you agree you even said zuri it's like okay fine we're not gonna have the master serum ceremony let's have more of the girl talk right but we're not getting that either we didn't get that it was yeah again we maybe they did it to their credit and they decided not to air it but why why yeah well then yeah and if that's the case then it's like there it would feel like I would assume the producers are just trying to take the bites of that that felt most hosty and air that which is trying to make these two women something that they're not. And they made it very clear before the season started. They're not filling in as hosts, but they're not quite being shown to be what the Bachelor franchise told us they were.

Yeah, it's it. They're just kind of like they we don't know what's going on so yeah it is it was kind of and like i said like from katie's standpoint she was talking like it was just she was talking about like clearly decisions she had already made and then and you know she was like she said absolutely and a very like call it was just the weirdest response yeah to what is supposed to be like i don't know what i'm about to do right i'm about to walk in this room and i don't know who i'm giving my rose to yeah i know yeah i don't know yeah just no i'm with you yeah yeah yeah i agree like chrissy to your point i i definitely agree that host role like someone to sort of beginning, middle end each episode,

who feels very much like a third party. Who's not, is invested in wanting you to find love, but not so in it that it just feels like how it's going. I want to hear one of them, like give Katie some, like a thoughtful takeaway because they've been in that experience of something she can use.

And maybe, I don't know. They can only work with what Katie, you know, I don and maybe I don't know they can only work with what Katie you know I don't know why it doesn't it's not working but there seems to be something missing so Andrew doesn't get

the rose he very bachelor kind of send off can we talk about that very much so yes let's break all this down uh because uh so the next day andrew comes knocks in katie's door uh there's a cameraman waiting for her in a room um and andrew comes in love again his ability to like really smile it's good it's just like i just didn't want to leave without yeah and what this felt like to me is two people trying to

almost steal each other's moment because no matter what Andrew's still going home right right we don't know this but like we know this yeah so Andrew comes in and it was like Andrew's like hey I just I want to like one more final like I'm a great guy writes a note that says if you change your mind i'll be waiting i loved it sure yeah but okay do you get to the part but but i think but but as we later find out andrew already realizes he's her fifth choice so this note clearly isn't meant to be taken literally. It's just more meant to be like, I'm a real sweet fucking guy. Yeah, exactly. Here you go. Here's my note.

And then the music. I mean, I was touched by the moment of the music. I mean, it was very dramatic. They shot it beautifully. It was great. Katie's chasing Andrew. Down the non-descript hotel lobby. I mean, again, the cinematography, the editing, fantastic.

There was a couple like real rom-com moments. And then Katie jumps into his arms. She loves an arm jump. She'll hop in an arm. She's definitely leveraging the fact that she is smaller. Get up in there. Get up in there. for her it's a real like embrace and then she just says i just wanted to hug you right what is happening what

is this the face andrew had when he katie came out was all just an endearing wonderful smile like holy shit this fucking worked it was not meant to work right right and she just says i want to hug you and you're just like oh yeah a sobering reminder you're still going home right right and then this is where this is kind of almost seemed like this like face off between like who gets to look the best in this moment. And Katie is just like, well, would you want to stay? And despite Andrew saying, if you change your mind, I'll be waiting.

Andrew's like, no. I'm like, let's be honest. I'm your fifth choice. But how about, maybe not fifth choice, maybe third in her heart. Because Justin, we're going to. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. She's like, I would marry you third. Right. But since I'm not marrying you. But I want to sleep with you the fifth. Basically. And Andrew is like, why are you taking this away from me? I just wrote you a nice card to look good.

And now I have to turn down the invite to potentially stay. Like, babe, why are you like, you're not, no, no, you were not. Like, I was supposed to be gone. I said, wait till I'm gone so you can't ask me back. And then he pulls out the, you know, which is fair. Like, he wants to feel like his wife is choosing him i totally like why'd you write the note so well well because it was just so he could be like that guy yeah which which he is probably that guy it's not a tv show like yeah you know

and who knows maybe someone was like a note like this might sound and look real good yeah here's a date card and just here's the same you know paper we use for date cards and here you know like maybe here you go right right or andrew asked for it it could have been either okay there are people who get suggestions and there are people who make their own ideas in that world right um but yes i think andrew was like you're not supposed to he was already walking in his bachelor destiny like why are you gonna put me in a spot like this why are you gonna take me back like i don't know but andrew handled it still recovered still good won the moment by saying i'm just like come on on. Yeah. I'm your fifth choice. And you feel for him. At that point, I didn't feel for him anymore.

Why? Because he's okay. No, that's what I mean. Like, I feel his perspective. I get why he's still going home. Yeah, you feel why he's like, no thanks. Oh, I 100% got it. I don't feel bad for him because also his future's bright.

I feel like we haven't seen the last of him. I think he knows we haven't seen the last of him. That a good thing i really i really i i don't i haven't liked many people as much as i like andrew just the whole the whole package he just seems like a really cool cool hang and he my favorite moments of andrew is he most people in that world, like resort to kind of high school, middle school, whatever the, wherever the pack is going, wherever the mob mentality is going, they follow suit. And Andrew was his own sounding board. Right. He went against the grain all the time. And every time he did, quite honestly, I agreed with his point of view.

Yeah. Not easy to do. And he did it in a way where he's like, guys, I'm just. Yeah. That's brave. It is. Because I hate groupthink, but it's so easy for people to succumb to it, especially in a setting like this one.

So to kind of go against the grain takes so much more resolve and says a lot about who you are and your self-awareness and what you're going to do and what you're not willing to do for the sake of getting along with with others which i really respect yeah um so we have four left predictions what do you think i mean i wanted it to be greg but now you guys have me thinking he's like this master con artist i don't i don't know who knows he could still win because interestingly enough like you know i don't i don't want to necessarily i think after watching this episode and listening and thinking about my interview with katie maybe katie is indulging and playing her roles about charette because again like what she painted the picture of her and mike wasn't exactly what we saw i did get her to confirm that her heartbreak was in fact

legitimate real world heartbreak we saw in the preview where she's like my person might have just left and then they're setting it up like someone left her but that easily could have been like we've seen i thought it was andrew still we've seen this before with the show kind of to your point where the lead sends someone home and says i might have just sent my person home and it's just like some sort of canned line they put in right up the stakes it's bullshit and quite honestly that looked like that rather rather than someone katie looked in control in that little like snippet in the preview looked in control. She didn't look devastated. She looked, oh, maybe my, he's so perfect.

Maybe he left. Which has kind of been the general theme, which I'm not mad at. She's very much in control of her emotions. She knows what she wants. It definitely lessens the drama, which might be why she leaned into the, oh, Mike in third place or whatever, you know, because she is generally drama free which is a part of her charm and what makes her attractive to me but if katie if no guys leave katie

do we like are we bummed that katie had us believe that she felt heartbreak can we believe that katie felt legitimate heartbreak the way just by breaking up with some that's sending someone home and then getting engaged to someone else yes could it could the heartbreak you believe you we still believe her okay you don't no i think with this show especially like you can fall in love with more than one person. And if you feel, like, really, like, a Ben or somebody like that who, like, really genuinely, like, fell in love with so many people, you can experience, like, that kind of heartbreak. Despite the fact that you're the one breaking up with them. I still think Lauren was always Ben's choice. But I could be wrong.

She sold it like someone left her. But it feels weird because like, based on what Katie said, I want Katie to find love and happiness. But based off of Katie said, I, I, I will feel cheated as a viewer.

If, if Greg doesn't crush her heart and then she ends up and find happiness with Blake. I'm just saying like, as a viewer, like they're setting it up. She set some expectations. And also the show is kind of setting it up this way where Greg, I don't know. I don't know. And it seemed like as a viewer, right?

Like Katie has been into Greg way more than anyone else. Like that's just how it seems, whether it is real or not. So I will be disappointed as a viewer because they're setting up this very dramatic thing. And again, I think she really likes Blake. So even if Greg leaves, I think it will probably be better off for her. Right. What do I know? But if you asked me, I don't think Greg and Katie are working in the real world.

Why not? I just don't see it. Just because you don't see the connection at are working in the real world. Why not? I just don't see it. Just because you don't see the connection at all. Like no, no true chemistry. I don't. I just don't buy that Greg's into Katie. Okay. And maybe Greg can get sucked up into a world where it's intense,

but outside of that world. It's not sustainable. I don't see Greg staying in love with Katie. I could be totally wrong i you know and you know someday they'll be married and have five kids and and people will constantly tell me remind me of this episode and how wrong i was but that's just how until then and that's how i see it from what i'm watching yeah um but I definitely could be wrong. Okay.

I'm going to have to go dig into all of the conspiracies after this because I'm not seeing that yet. Like, I know I've heard of the whole Greg is here for the right reasons thing, but I maybe I just haven't seen enough outside of the show when it comes to the gossip and the rumor mills to really believe it. I just. All I've really heard is the acting school, which I agree with you know that's like that like so what yeah so what and that's not why i have a problem i don't care about the actual school i just don't i don't buy it okay like

there's been other people in other seasons you're like i just don't think he's that into her right right and or her she's not that into him yeah okay. Okay. You know, but it's tough. I'm going to sit with this. I need to. Like, Greg's just done a great job of, you know, where Thomas made the mistake is you're the greatest thing ever. It's the greatest connection I've ever felt in my life. And you're just like, and Greg's just kind of been this reluctant. Right.

You know, heartthrob. Yeah. Like, oh. Which is just so attractive. I know. Again, I think he's just, he's Thomas just doing a much better job. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Nope. Nope. I'm not going to, nope. I'm not going there with you. I still stand by Greg as a potential true.

I don't think he's Thomas. I will say that. I don't, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's Thomas You think he's what? Just giving just enough to get to the end Be endearing and kind And not any sort of obvious villain To pivot into Bachelor territory?

Like y'all really think? I don't even think it's that like Machiavellian I mean if Because what did Thomas What was Thomas really guilty of? Other than maybe overstating his feelings for Katie? Because it's what he thought he should say. Right.

I thought about being the bachelor, blah, blah, blah. Like everyone's thought that. I don't criticize Thomas. He just said it out loud. He just overdid it. Yeah. He played the game too aggressively. He came out in the first quarter and just a little too coming in hot, came in hot.

Right. And what I'm saying is Greg is finding himself in this very staged and controlled atmosphere that can maximize your feelings. You get caught off guard. But I think deep down, Greg's in control of his feelings. And I think deep down, Greg in control of his feelings. And I think deep down Greg knows this isn't my person, but because of the nature of the environment and the stakes there, he's a lot, he's allowing himself to believe the lie as well. But I think deep down acting school, not even that,

like I think he can do that without going to acting school. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't, I really don't care about the acting school, but I do think he's in more, I think he's in control of his emotions. And I don't, I don't believe that Greg met the love of his life in Katie. Yeah. I could be totally wrong.

That's just how I'm seeing it. Yeah. I'm not convinced it's the love of his life, but I, for now, I'm believing that there's some sort of genuine connection. I think Greg said, I think I've met the love of my life. i for now i'm believing that there's some sort of genuine connection i think greg said i think i've met the love of my life oh well that i don't believe he did okay so and now that we're getting into the end it's okay for greg to say things like that where thomas was saying it like when he was like hi nice to meet you i'm thomas you're the most amazing thing i've ever this is it this is it oh is it. Oh, my God. I can't believe.

We're like, whoa, that's week six, buddy. Calm down. Did you not do your homework? Greg did his homework. You make an argument that is strong. And I still like Greg, but I just, I empathize because, again, that is a perfectly engineered environment. Right, right, right. Love of my environment. Right, right, right.

Love of my life. Okay, you're right. Maybe I glossed over that as a small red flag, all things considered. I just really liked them making out in the rain, and I felt like a fish toss. I think when Greg is talking to Katie, what he really says is, you seem cool. You're a cool hang. This is awesome.

This will do for now. Okay. Okay. Stomp on my dreams. Stomp on my hopes. I'm probably wrong. And when Katie and Greg end up together and get married. No. So who right now?

Blake? I think it's like a dark horse and it's kind of a hot take, but Blake, yeah. Blake, okay, okay. Michael's top three. Blake and Greg are final two, and at some point. Well, I don't know. She says it ends differently, so who knows? Zuri, thank you so much for coming.

Thank you, Nick. Always a pleasure. Great to be here. Please remind the people of all the great things that you're doing and where they can follow you, find you, and all that fun stuff. You can follow me on Instagram at Zuri, Z-U-R-I-H-A-L-L, Hall. And yeah, you can listen to my podcast, Hot Happy Mess, every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.

It's just best life minus the burnout. We're trying to find the magic in the middle of our messes. So it's all lifestyle. And right now we're in our wellness series. We just finished career and finance. We talk about love and relationships. So it's just a holistic portrait of millennial skinny jean wearing. Great.

It's amazing podcast. Be sure to check it out. Subscribe to her podcast. Listen to it. Thank you guys for listening so much be sure to check out our ass nica episode on mondays uh we'll be back with olivia o'brien tomorrow and until then thanks for listening