The Viall Files - E306 Bachelor In Paradise Recap With Cathy Kelley

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Today we recap Bachelor In Paradise with television personality and friend of show Cathy Kelley. Nick and Cathy cover all the hot button topics in Paradise including David Spade, Karl & Victoria’s  first impressions on the beach, age differences, grocery story Joe, and Tre’s uncle!. Then they dive in on whether they thought any of the couples spoke before the show and their predictions for who they think could be candidates for the next Bachelor. It’s another breakdown you don’t want to miss.  “…Its just Game Of Thrones up in here. ” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today!   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Marley Spoon: http://www.marleyspoon.com use promo code VIALL to get $100 off over your first four orders. Pill Club: http://www.thepillclub.com/VIALL The Pill Club is offering a $10 donation to Bedsider.org for every Viall Files listener who becomes a patient. Your donation will help low-income individuals get access to birth control through Bedsider.org.  Chime: http://www.chime.com/VIALL Join the millions on Chime. Signup takes two minutes, and doesn’t affect your credit score!  Each & Every: http://www.eachandevery.com/VIALL and use code VIALL30 for 30% OFF your first purchase.   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @cathykelley See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files recapping bachelor in paradise after missing last year we finally get our favorite summer guilty pleasure. And we have a great episode for you today. The wonderful Kathy Kelly is back in studio. Hello. To help us break down all things Bachelor in Paradise. Kathy, welcome.

Thank you. I feel like Bachelor in Paradise is having an identity crisis this year, and I think I'm here for it. How so? Everything. Have you not watched the episode? David Spade knows not what he's doing, and I love it. I was very confused by the voiceovers. I was like, who is this person very aggressively doing a little John? And then I realized that it was little John doing it. But yeah, I'm very confused, i think like my senses are on overload but i love it it's great we'll uh we'll break it all down with kathy in just a few minutes we have a great

podcast for you tomorrow with the hit boy band cnco uh a really fantastic uh episode if i don't say so myself a great group of guys um if you're interested in the boy band lifestyle uh it's a pretty honest conversation they're fun uh talking about their lives what it's like to be a rock star pretty uh pretty fun episode um and you won't want to miss that uh other than that uh what else anything else that we really have immediate to talk about? Should we just get into Breaking Down Paradise? Let's just break down paradise. Let's go. All right. Yeah.

So David Spade. David Spade. Great. Also, I feel like he doesn't even know what he's doing there. Yeah. Nor does he. He's just like, whatever. I'm a fan of the show.

Like, you know know why not honestly I out of all the matches that could potentially happen this season I want to see David Spade and Demi that felt like it had the most chemistry out of it there was a lot of potential flirting between David and the women showing up yeah

yes and he's like you are very in shape go to the beach yeah like he like after demi i mean we're cutting to the end but after like demi showed up and laughed there was like a there was tension between them there was a a like a he didn't know a nice grin he's like oh he's like someone that actually made me laugh and like he was giddy yeah so maybe maybe there's love it's a match made in paradise yeah and uh obviously age is just a number this season um and so maybe that will be the case with uh david spade and uh demi as well um well yeah

so we uh we open up obviously we get a bunch of intro packages, uh, from people kind of giving us a preview on who we're going to see, who stood out to you, Kathy, uh, on, uh, on any of these intro packages, if, if anything, and just kind of a reminder for people like, especially like Kelsey, who haven't seen in a couple of seasons. Um, I mean, I kelsey was here like right before pandemic right after peter's right and she was talking about how she wanted to go on paradise and was bummed that like obviously we were in that that stage where it was oh yeah we have two weeks of shutdown you'll be in your house for two weeks um but they kind of had this idea that no

one was going to go to mexico and what that would look like. But I'm interested. I feel like it's, you know, a lot of people from the last couple seasons who maybe didn't have the most TV time. But I mean, out of all the people, I think Tejuan. I'm so excited to see her this season. And like I was saying, like Bachelor in Paradise having this identity crisis of like we've got existential crises happening on the beach. We've got you know girls dating other guys uncles and like it's just it's game of thrones up in here it's fabulous i mean listen i i love paradise for a lot of reasons both uh filming it was fun watching it you know it can get exhausting recapping the bachelor and bachelorette for the way it is shot

and just how it is in a completely unrealistic environment that um the show is you know the show takes itself very seriously it's very earnest about like the rules of the show and therefore the audience does and then we get into these kind of weird kind of discussions about like what's normal when you have one person dating 30 people the power dynamic is inequitable and off etc etc and as viewers we watch it and and we want like especially in the bachelorette we want our guys to be totally okay with being like hey man just go talk to her it's totally cool and that's perceived as gentlemanly and like unproblematic where in life you wouldn't even want your guy to be okay with you like having him like share you etc etc

yeah and so paradise we i think it's fun it's it's more of a comedy and then i think we definitely get to see people's real personalities come out. They're not put into these silos because they're not afraid of doing and saying the right thing. There's a little bit more space for people. They make fun of themselves. That's what Paradise is. And I think it's, you know, full throttle this season with David Spade, Lil Jon, like all of the guest cameos that they're teasing for this season, I feel like.

And everyone's been so cooped up that they're just ready for it. Like they said, the most makeouts on this episode, the first episode of a season ever. I don't know. I'm excited to see what it's going to be. But also like you mentioned the voiceover, it sets the tone for what the new Bachelor in Paradise is. That voiceover was like like it attacked on the senses

like i i felt like i needed shots to listen voiceover yeah is it little john like i right or is it someone trying what paradise is as opposed to what paradise was yeah but that's well it's i don't know about that i mean paradise when i was on it was more of a comedy now they've literally made it. I mean, I know this to be true. Production-wise, they wanted to have it be more of a drama and less of a comedy. So I would disagree with that. I don't know.

But that voiceover makes it more comedy to me. And so does David Spades and all that of it. I thought this episode was very funny, for sure. I'm just saying, like, I don't know about like the the the voice is like a some sort of subliminal message of what we're gonna yeah i mean that's the the other thing too is i feel like bachelor has been around for so long bachelor in paradise what is this the fifth six seven season i don't know it's not like seven maybe but like in that time frame the last few years so many other reality dating shows have come around that they have to reinvent themselves

or like they have to lean into that more. I totally agree. I don't know if they're very good at doing that. I'd like to see the franchise do more of that, specifically when it comes to The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, but it's tough, right? You have a legacy show that's been ultra successful for how many years it still wins monday nights despite you know ratings are

different now they like there's just more content so it's hard to they still win on monday nights so um you get you know it's the same thing over and over the same playbook and i i do wish the show especially with the bachelor and bachelorette would stop pretending it's not a TV show. I think they do a much better on Bachelor in Paradise of of that. But yeah, I totally agree with you. There's more competition. Other shows, especially with streaming platforms like are doing well, especially with streaming platforms like are doing well like bachelor might be the only reality tv show that really crushes on network television but like it's different now because now you can put like fuckboy on an hbo max and and too hot to handle on netflix and they do very well yeah and yeah yeah i think they have to definitely compete. So that's interesting knowing that.

I wonder, and I don't have the answer, how much they might have taken that into account when editing or filming Bachelor in Paradise. Yeah. I mean, did we get the normal Baywatch intros or whatever those are, like old school? Yeah, they cut those this year. I would be willing.

My guess is you'll see them. See them second episode. Second episode. I'm pretty sure that's always been the case where they have the intro and the second episode people get into their paradise characters and you'll see that. But maybe they could have completely taken it, but I don't think it's just because we didn't see it today

doesn't necessarily mean we're not going to see it yeah i would and that was such a fun part of of the show i hope they keep doing that yeah no i mean as far as like people that stood out i feel like grocery store joe's getting a lot of attention from the girls um obviously we saw him have like his little crisis on the beach but it reminds me a lot of um derrick derrick p energy from a couple seasons ago where like he's coming back after a failed relationship to try to not recreate what he had before but like it's a very weird yeah wells was on here recapping and he mentioned that he thought someone could you know get a bachelor edit from paradise i'm almost certain that must be grocery store joe from what we're seeing episode one i mean i i loved joe this episode i thought there's a real

honesty and earnestness of you could see him really struggling i think it's very relatable i had feelings like that when i went back on paradise for my two it's just like this is this is this is probably a stupid idea um and i face the trauma head on yeah and so i think you see that with joe and i found it very relatable he he's probably one of the best people at owning his awkwardness and leaning into it and not pretending he's not being awkward and that comes across very charming the authenticity behind it is so endearing and I think you know I would say like I definitely felt like America was gonna

fall in love with him on this season if they already had I didn't watch his season of Dancing with the Stars but he obviously was a fan favorite from you know even his season of having a couple episodes before he got eliminated a couple episodes night he got eliminated. No, not even a couple episodes. Was it night one?

Night one. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that's a... In life, Joe's a great guy. He is very comfortable with himself. And I think that shows. And I hope that we see more of that.

Obviously, age was discussed a lot this episode. I mean, to have people that are 40 and then to have people that are early early 20s it brings a really interesting wrinkle because you have a bunch of men from claire's who are casted for claire right and claire was what 38 39 when 39 so when she was the bachelorette so you have naturally older men and then and then you have a lot of women from Matt season. And Matt was, you know, what, 26, 27. And so you're going to Peter season was young, too. I mean, both of those.

Yeah, I feel like Matt season was really when they said, you know, a lot of they got a lot of feedback from people watching of these girls are too young. How can you think that a 21 year old is ready to get engaged or enter into that series of a relationship and so you know now you have a lot of those girls on this this beach you know like hoping to end things in an engagement yeah and i it will see i think kenny obviously didn't you didn't see much of kenny i mean you saw way too much of kenny on claire's and tasia season um and obviously you know and he came down very naked or totally naked and we'll see but i'm really i am i'm curious i wonder if these conversations will keep going and specifically to joe you know we've talked so much about like how authentic are any of these people now with social media and and this perceived playbook and it i don't know you've you

see even with kenny a lack of comfort in his own skin this is who i am an acknowledgement a willingness to talk about it on camera when it's on a ones. And I don't think it's, you don't see that as much when you have a younger cast because they're just always in their head about saying and doing the right thing. Wanting to be perceived well on television.

Yeah, it's a lot of like, you know, bachelor talk and bachelor tropes. And like, you know, Joe, who is like, I don't know, fucking, what do you want me to, like, I'm just like, I'm just, I'm going to tell you what i'm thinking in my head and it's it's remarkably refreshing yeah um like just a couple like mari uh apparently she thinks we know her to have a large ass but now we do know she has apparently a large i mean hey it's like because it's kind of funny it's like people know me for like having a big butt and being hit by a

dildo. And I didn't remember her. And I don't mean that in a mean way. It was just, she got such little time on television. Like there was, there was a lot more interesting stuff. No,

I remembered Katie with the dildo. I didn't, I didn't see anything else, you know, like there was nothing. Matt wasn't in that. Mari wasn't. I mean, when Mari showed up, I nothing. Matt wasn't in that. Mari wasn't in that. I mean, when Mari showed up,

I remembered her for me as someone who I thought like might be a villain on Matt's season. Just because, you know, she looks like a hot Ursula. Like people, I mean, the show is that simple. Honestly, if you look like it is, they will. And she looked a little like snarky on, you know, you never, you're just like. And swerve, Victoria was the queen walking in.

And then like, she just kind of like got, yeah, it was just the Victoria show. And then you didn't see much of her. Very few names out there we know we can trust just by hearing the name. But Martha Stewart, and it comes to cooking and baking and in the kitchen is I think something we can have a lot of confidence in. And now Martha Stewart and Marley Spoon

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need of affordable birth control. Remember thepillclub.com slash V-I-A-L-L. You must use the link to make a donation. But isn't that true of like every single reality show of the people that are a little bit more normal don't get as much TV time? Oh, totally. Well, you know what's interesting? When Natasha showed up, right? Yeah. I've gotten to know Natasha in life.

She's been on the podcast. I've hung out with her in person. She is, she's wonderful just in life. She's smart, intelligent. She's a little nut. And I mean that as a compliment she's funny and goofy and has a huge personality saw her personality for the first time this season well that's what i'm saying she and on peter's season she was like top five or six and it was

like one of those top five or six you're like why the fuck is that's how does she not speak or whatever yeah and it kind of just goes to show you, like, again, on Paradise, you know, you can get an opportunity to see people's personality because after I got to know Natasha in life, I was like, how did we not see any of this on Peter's season?

She's funny. She's emotionally intelligent. Yeah. She loves shadow dancing. I think she's going to be a star this season, Natasha, for sure. And then, who, Jacinta, like, whatever whatever I don't know she didn't

have an entrance thing like they leaned into the Kelsey champagne thing video intro everyone remembers David yeah everyone remembers that moment it was a big moment on the show yeah well they leaned into it she walked in very confidently I was very impressed with the

growth that she's had. She acted like she was the host of Paradise. I felt like she walked up to David and she was like, welcome to Paradise to David. And I was like, no, that's his job. Like what? It felt like she was like gunning for his job. Yeah.

I liked it. I feel like she's waiting for someone. Her person hasn't arrived yet. I don't know. Well, there's's gonna be a lot of that for sure yeah oh going back to kenny i did think um he kind of reminds me of every person that's ever been on real world road rules challenge you know like and that's yeah millennial joke any gen zers look it up but like he he fits that type like that mold is like i feel like he was on that show

in another life yeah the spiky hair yeah by itself you know boy band manager he's got the earrings he's in great shape good looking guy yeah and i've i've never met him everyone i've heard people really like him okay even he went on a show like the producer's like he's it sounds you know he clearly comes across as like a potential douchebag he just does right like he must know their tattoo he must know that and like whatever you know and so from the tat and the tats are fine but the earrings to the spike hair to the boob this is the whole thing not one thing it's the whole package there's like a fuck boy not even a fuck boy like a douchebag alert but i've heard he's an actually a really good guy and fun to be around and so we'll i think you will yeah i think he's from chicago right yeah he lives in chicago well

they asked him what he did all day and she he was like i don't know like that's a nice way to say you're unemployed i drink coffee let's wake up okay wait can we talk about the best moment out of the two hours of the episode was tammy saying i loved being greeted by dave chappelle i spit my water out oh god that was so good i hope that she's like right that you have to be remembered for that forever right yeah but also like what is dave chappelle gonna think about this what is david spade gonna think about this because clearly jokes they didn't you know this was in an itm right that this you that's the thing when you watch it back i'm pretty sure right you're

gonna watch it and almost think that and your brain is gonna tell you she said that to david spade but she didn't she said that in an itm yeah about the conversation while you seeing her in front of david spade it's it's how the the show tricks you yeah um but he would have had a great comeback if that was actually yeah i'm sure like i'm sure spade handed it quite graciously like clearly he had fun with the fact that he was there while you're here he's like i lost a bet like he you know whatever he's having fun he's a fan of the show uh he's not trying to act above it all like i he uh i i enjoyed him and he wasn't trying to be all like you know he wasn't gunning for the position he was just like

i'm here to just fuck around and have some fun i hope that again i hope the show he's got big fuck around and find out energy yeah right now i hope the show goes back to like its comedy roots like i think you know we didn't have it last season but like i know that they actively were like oh like you know we're the bachelor and we're ABC and so like it's drama and love and like no it's it people appreciated it when it first came for like the fact you can find love and laugh and have some fun and you can talk to fucking crabs and lizards yeah and yeah it's a fucking tv show like um so I hope they don't stop doing doing that uh brendan shows up we're reminded that he's super hot like everyone all the girls love him all the girls love him um we didn't see much of of brendan yeah i feel like the only thing we did see was him being like like come and get it

girls like started being like these girls better work for their rose which like again it's like not a huge deal but the fact that that was the only thing we saw i was like oh no he was on the beach with natasha wasn't he yeah it's fun at night it's good that you point that out because it was clearly a joke right but it is the only real thing we did see of him so remember that as we fast forward to the regular seasons as there's going to be a guy and my prediction is brendan uh and you kind of for the foreshadowing every that's how they get their villain yeah heart yeah like he's making heartthrob sweet guy you know america's sweetheart the guy who's like you know justin long's favorite like he's the greatest guy in the world uh blake from becca season every you know oh he's the he's the sweetest and he comes down and it's it's it's just he's just he's had a lot of sex this past year he's enjoying the

freedoms of and and the problem is i said this to blake at ben higgins bachelor party we're all hanging out and you know blake was front you know we were just talking obviously about the show and i was like listen you know you you probably i don't know if you still get it yet but the re this was your problem and all this other bullshit that you think it is your problem is and he is like i don't i don't care what you do man he's like you know no judgment on how what you do in your private life. That's fine. But you were portrayed as Ben Higgins. And you had no problem with people thinking you were Ben Higgins.

And then you went around in your life. You're not. And then you showed back up on Paradise and tried to keep that image going of I'm Ben Higgins. And you're just not fucking Ben Higgins. It's not authentic. it's not authentic it's not authentic and so brendan is potentially going to fall trap of believing he's you know going to go for the bachelor acting like it's amazing because like you go on that show and you're trained that you know can i interrupt you can i interrupt you and like you you watched the lead whoever you were dating be okay with dating multiple people.

You're like, oh, you can date multiple. This is the show. It's The Bachelor. You can date multiple people. So in Paradise, you're like, oh yeah, I can date multiple people. And it all like, no, you cannot date multiple people. So it was very interesting in both Brendan and Serena P's video, like intro videos.

They both almost were proud of the fact that they left the bachelor bachelorette on their own accord. Like that's a weird thing to be proud of, but like both of them had this like moment where it was almost a, because the rest of the people on the beach situation, past year, their friends and family and people. I love that you, they, a lot of even fans and family members have been telling them in some way, shape or form, some version of you're above the show. You left them before they left you.

Yeah, you did something different, you know, like, you know. Which they are the two most desired heading into Paradise. Come across as, I mean, if you ask Justin Long, he probably would say Brennan's too good for this show, right show right and so and he's just a guy which is also i think you guys are skipping over ivan we are skipping over i just haven't got because because in this scenario though because ivan was very cocky in his video really as well and was like i'm the one who's here i feel like i'm gonna be a catch like there's no competition on this beach and then that's when like brendan came in yeah but he yeah but that's what i'm saying he

has possibility for being a villain as well he does but i don't i i think ivan's incredibly smart and i really don't think he will and it comes down to i think brendan will get all all the attention ivan's like the the younger bro like your friend's younger brother who's like, yeah, I'm going to get her. But you're like, oh, that's cute. I swear there's a preview where he's getting bitched out. I could have sworn it was him. I'm sure Ivan will be in drama.

I just, you're not, because you're not going to get that many of those guys. You're going to get one many of those guys you're going to get one there was one blake there was you know it was one you know uh josh murray i mean josh murray did that like one primary shit stirrer yeah or or just like someone walks in thinking i'm above this i'm the hero for my season you know like carl well carl thomas. No, I think I bet Thomas will have some sort of redemption arc. You saw a preview of him dating the former bachelorette. I mean, we'll see how that ends.

If he ends up fucking over Becca, they could go real south for him. But so it's also very interesting to me of who is not in paradise or like, I don't know if they're coming later in the season, but I don't think they are of like the tyler camerons the hannah slusses the hannah ann um you know maddie prue like i feel like all of those people of like well a cup like a couple of those people you named uh turned it down okay uh maddie pruitt i don't think was ever offered it she's just not i think maddie pruitt would probably agree and the she's not meant for paradise yeah it works to go on the bachelor and say i don't kiss guys i don't date guys i don't like that works on the bachelor it does not work in paradise and they have four seasons to

cast from they like totally it's just it's interesting to me because it's on this two-year delay now since we've had it last of there are so many people from you know hannah brown season from you know peter season that we we haven't seen in this capacity yet yeah and like tyler my guess would be hot shit in paradise i mean i'm sure they would have loved to have tyler yeah i think he just turned everyone would love to have tyler um and we'll talk about that when we uh talk about potential bachelors for next season and rumors out there. Yeah, but Ivan obviously comes. I think it'll be interesting.

And then we get Connor. I'm curious what the story is going to be for Connor. Kissing redemption. That's the entire story. I don't know if he's going to get it. He already got it this episode. Sure. But if that's the story, then i objective let's talk about trey for example we'll fast forward because what a wild storyline

not even that let's let's a little backtrack but like i want to give props to trey uh his makeout and i like objectively trey looks like a good kisser tajuan says he's a good kisser and the way better than his uncle yeah better than his uncle the way he he was kissing it was like he he you could tell he was present he was slow connor b when he made out with casey reminded me when i like growing up in a large family when my mom would buy sugar cereal and we would race downstairs and try to like eat it before it was all gone like that's how connor b kissed katie it was like this like katie was like gonna run away i mean they didn't have chemistry but i didn't even think on the the mental all his kiss looked very good i'll take

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each and every.com slash v-i-a-l-l i can't uh endorse it more than i mean like it's truly awesome use it every day uh i truly love it and i'll use it forever hopefully as long as you guys stick around each and every i'll be your customer connor no i don't think the girl that came from the audience and like made out with him no that's my point because i don't think i think connor is an hyper aggressive kisser that for some women they might be into it but like i think trey watching it was like a guy who's like let's just what's the dance like it was present he was like yeah i feel like connor enters his kisses with an agenda like he knows exactly what he's gonna do and i feel like you have to respond in the moment to like whatever your

partner's putting down connor yes connor is just like this is how i kiss i'm leading it's like it's a guy at a wedding who's just like he only has one speed on the dance floor like it doesn't matter if it's electric slide yeah it's just like this is how i'm dancing i don't care if it's a fast or slow song yeah keep up man and and trey i feel like as a guy who's just like hey what's uh what's the song we're playing and whatever and i just like oh my uncle sang this song before yeah um tajwan i i really hope she's around for a while. She is so funny. She's great. She is so entertaining.

She's beautiful and funny and self-wishy. And relatable. Relatable. She had a cup of coffee two seasons ago and got sent home. She must be on for a while. I hope so. Because why bring her back for like one episode? I mean, her and Trey are so unexpected to me, but I kind of love it.

I love it. Yeah. And I want to see. The wedding will be awkward. Yeah for sure I want to see I'm glad we got to see this make out what like, you know Trey was the guy who like Katie wasn't into but so it was like her friend friend friend and energy and like all the guys liked him, but I want to see sides of Of Trey and then the uncle stuff is just I mean Chefs chef's kiss of Trey. And then the uncle stuff is just, I mean, French kiss. Cashmere's also been...

Chef's kiss. Sorry. You know we're talking about making out. You know, we didn't get to see much of Trey's response, though, to the uncle. Did we? I don't remember.

He was fine with it. That was the thing. He's like, oh, man, this sucks. And then he's like, I'm still gonna pursue her. It's like, you know he has a hot uncle then you know like he doesn't know that he like also we don't even know the age of his uncle well i mean we assume like it must be really old but like trey's 26 the uncle could be 40. i mean i have a i have a 17 year old sister you know what i'm saying like i have a lot it's unique you know not everyone has a large family with yeah but like you he you know

trey's brother could be his half brother from another who knows or his full brother and like you know trey was the one that like the accident the unexpected kid and there's like a 15 year age difference or maybe there's like a five year age difference from his uncle like we have and that's what i mean like between trey's dad or mom and etc i think the uncle just needs to come on the show i know people i know people whose their aunts and uncles are younger than them well that's what i'm saying my sister bella is two years two or three years older than my niece yeah it's a modern family um yeah so like we we hear uncle and we're thinking like old guy like they're still blood relatives and they're making out with the same girl but i was gonna say if if they are living

in the same city then at least there is a chance for success coming out of pair they might not even be blood related we don't there's more we definitely need some details i'm pretty sure they're blood related this he said he said he's like that's my blood relative oh he did yeah okay he literally said okay thank you like if it if i was going to make out with someone else like the nephew of whoever i would be like giving all this context if they weren't actually blood related you know like i would i would feel a lot better about that and like put that out to people so that they knew that it wasn't as weird as it is i loved what we have because obviously episode one is a lot of intros and a lot of getting to

know yous and it's blah blah it's like okay and so that was like the one kind of like fun storyline of the episode um i hope they get married. Kenny, like I was surprised, like Kenny was in fact naked, right? Like there's no reason to think that he wasn't or he had a son. I only say that because, yeah, we're all adults here, but like there's a,

just a dick flopping around the beach. It's like an unsuited dick pic in real life. Everyone was kind of like very normal about it. There was no like looking away. It's like's like oh my god it's just like a well and then your dicks is there the whole you know it's just like i i feel like you know like i'm a mature guy but after a while i'd be like you know the he's bending over i don't he's just like he's like on a cushion with mari he's on a cushion with mari they're like laying there with their margaritas.

I'm like, okay, so it's our two drinks and a dick. I think at that point he definitely had something on and they're black boxing it. But when he came down to the beach for the first, even five or 10 minutes, if he's totally naked, everyone was just very kind of like, okay, all right, he's naked. And no, to their credit was just like, fuck, that's just a

dick right there man he did i i appreciate it for a second he said to mari because you can tell he really likes her he goes he's like please don't judge me for this before their their conversation so i he knows it's a shtick yeah and i i like that conversation that they had when they talked about you know you had two conversations about age gaps yeah between joe and serena p and and um kenny and and mari and yeah it was just more of a you could tell both guys were self-conscious and very curious about what the women they were talking to thought to have that conversation i feel like it's such a normal conversation outside of yeah i mean in batch like it happens a lot and what's what's i thought was interesting too is

like you had i think we did both women were like yeah i've dated all the guys or did serena peanut say that i don't know i think they both did i think natasha just has a wonderful interesting life in general yeah um yeah i think i think natasha's dated all sorts of interesting people yeah a rich sexual history i don't even know if it's rich but like yeah natasha's dated all sorts of interesting people yeah a rich sexual history i don't even know if it's rich but like yeah natasha could like be on a real life sex in the city kind of show um but yeah just kind of talking about like yeah i've dated older guys than you yeah well even just like they asked because they don't you realize that they don't know everyone's age necessarily like they have a general sense but But for them to even bring it up as like, let's just get this out on the table

is like an informed consent thing. Like, let's name this. That way it's not like nobody feels tricked or whatever. And it'll be interesting. Again, we're recording this before the episode airs. Does Twitter make a big deal about it? Do they not care? Do they talk about it at all in terms of the 15-year age gap?

Joe and Serena P. I mean, we got a preview of Joe saying, you're the second person I love to Serena P. So like, okay, spoiler alert. Maybe that doesn't happen. It is the season. But that didn't look edited. I mean, he was clearly talking to Serena p uh it's just who's ready for what who's like in the the right time in their life

right yeah yeah i mean i remember when i was on the on the show i was just self-conscious of like i was just like i'm like i'm not like i didn't i'm friends with the twins now but at the time i didn't know who the twins were but they're objectively pretty women and then i remember the producers being like who would you want to go on a date with and i'm like not the twins now, but at the time I didn't know who the twins were, but they're objectively pretty women. And I remember the producers being like, who would you want to go on a date with? And I'm like, not the twins. Like, it was just more like, I'm not like, I don't know them, but I was a self-conscious about like being older than them or just the perception of it rather than. I mean, you're also in a completely different stage of life of, you know, having different life experiences.

The 10, even a 10-year age gap i feel like can be a lot sometimes i liked that serena p what she said was i think her exact words not exact i'm probably i'm paraphrasing uh potentially different stages of life i like that she said potentially because that is a fact that is a reality that it's potentially you have to acknowledge that but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is like you know like you know like i think kenny's talking about he's more mature or whatever and then he comes down naked again i'm not he's this it's a tv show he's having fun but like and we know like we heard kenny but maybe kenny is just maybe he is immature maybe he is

like popping bottles on the weekend in Chicago. And playful. And who knows? Maybe he's still a fuckboy. We don't know. And Serena P could be like, you know. Has already been framed as someone who has like a very clear sense of what she wants. And someone who possesses like a good internal dialogue. But that also could be immaturity. That could be the perception.

You know, you have a lot of people, how they were raised. This is what I want. They have no real life experiences. And then they hit life. And then they're radically. She's never been heartbroken before. She's never experienced a failed, like, two year relationship where you're talking about children and marriage and moving to a different state.

So, yeah. So Serena P looks mature, but she could be. We don't know. I'm just saying that. That's what I think. That's what's fascinating about this conversation. I thought at 23, I was ready to get married. date so yeah so serena p looks mature but she could be we don't know i'm just saying that that's that well i think that's what's fascinating about this conversation i thought at 23 i was ready to get married and i was not yeah so at all it's all very very different in terms of what people's life has actually been at the age that they are what experiences have they had heartbroke

what's their how independent or not have they been so it's a fascinating conversation i'm curious to that point is it something they're gonna just bring up an episode one to get it out of the way as you suggested or will it be something they continue to talk about as these relationships progress you know like you know with natalie and me being older like that was a huge topic of the conversation between the both of us as we were even considering dating of like where like how realistic how honest are we to ourselves where what stages of life are we in etc so we wouldn't we didn't just for like we didn't just acknowledge it and then move on we can constantly had conversations yeah about that it'll be interesting to see whether or not

we see those conversations even. Yeah, I'm really interested if that's the case. So we anything to chat about before we get into like the actual first date between Abigail? I mean, it definitely seemed like there were some other couples that like had been talking before the show

of. Oh, you think so? Yeah. I'm on that already. Aaron and who was he with was it was he with tammy oh aaron yeah yeah aaron and tammy have definitely been in the dms okay texting something like there there are a couple people of like even calling them out of like oh you're you're looking for someone you know someone's gonna walk down those steps yeah so i mean that they've all well i can i wish they acknowledge it on the show I'm sure they will at one point yeah but they will vilify it 100 I mean same in the way that they did with Blake

uh yeah last season but they all like the truth is they all have been talking all of them and maybe it's all just friendly and you know like maybe it's not all and and the women are as savage as the men they couldn't have hookup culture this last year because you were quarantined you had to stay in your own state so so yeah they're all like they were all they're going to coachella because coachella was canceled yeah or stagecoach yeah stagecoach um it is always interesting because the women are as savage in the dms as the men but it's never really acknowledged on this show. Like the women have, I've heard plenty of stories about they're all,

they're talking to multiple guys and the guys think they're the only girl they're talking to and then it all kind of plays out on the beach and it's all gossip. And by the time they're on the beach, all the producers know you know and it's it's just kind of a funny thing I really hope we don't get more my real hope for this season no more Connor B songs I just we get it you're very talented you can sing I don't need to hear it anymore I don't know he's literally that dude who's whipping out his guitar at the party yeah it's like he's a camp counselor that grew up yeah it's a stick i'm over it i don't want to hear it anymore i don't want any more of carl's

jokes they're not jokes uh yeah i mean i yeah we almost we almost uh they are jokes they're just not funny. It's so bad that we always talk about on this show, just be very careful not to judge a book by its cover from this TV show. It is a show. It's edited. We don't know these people's personality, but we've got so little of Carl,

but every time we see Carl, it's enough of we can't just all be edited to make him seem complete unselfaware and douchey. Like that line where he just like, yeah, I got a name. And then it would, it would have been one thing

if he just simply was like, I'm just kidding. And just that would have been maybe okay. Still kind of like, you're not funny, that would have been maybe okay still kind of like you're not funny but way to try but then he's like then he admitted i wanted to see how you would respond truly fuck you carl like that kind of energy of constantly he's what you would call like testing testing testing condescending like this like the power he thinks he should have. My sneakers are waterproof. Just kidding. He is a liar.

I mean, I don't know. Maybe Carl's the greatest guy. I will still say I don't know him. I haven't met him. It is a TV show. But he seems like, you know, the motivational speaker, he, I would be willing to bet he's a compulsive liar. And it's just a bunch of little lies that don't make any sense or why he needs to lie about it.

But he's just constantly lying. He's the kid growing up that would tell you that he had like a Mickey Mantle rookie card. And he would be like, oh, can I see your Mickey Mantle rookie card? We all had this friend growing up. Or his dad had like this mansion on a lake. And you'd be like, oh, can we go to the second home? And you never saw any of these things but he would constantly just make shit up yeah because that's how he thought he would get friends and that's i'm pretty sure carl that makes me sad though i know it's

like it's so bad that you i almost feel bad for carl because it's such a projection of his own insecurities and but like you keep going on the show and acting like an asshole and and that the whole i just wanted to test you like that's your opener as someone who had to like watch his whole teaser trailer of his motivational speaking business i don't feel bad for him i feel bad for myself no yeah but that's one of those things is who is he because the guys are giving out the roses this week so who is he gonna give to give his rose to? Who is he going to couple up with? That's why Carl can come on week one because you're going to get two.

Because the big question is, what woman is going to give him a rose when the women have the rose? It keeps him on for two weeks. Yeah, he'll be on for two weeks. He'll be on for two weeks. Because some girl is going to have good gameplay and get the rose, have a conversation with him, get the the rose and then not give him the rose when it's their turn

yeah ah that's right good one kathy that's how kelsey stays yeah yeah um so yeah carl just stop you know just stop being carl just you don't have to lie man move in silence um abigail finally get what just victoria on the topic of carl because there was a moment of them talking and it was like interestingly enough i know we gave victoria a lot of shit the the women all like victoria you can tell that you could tell that on matt season i mean listen she she's probably not everyone's cup of tea and she's probably loud and can be obnoxious. But I I like Victoria in the sense that like maybe her jokes aren't landing, but you can tell she's just like ridiculous and she knows she's being ridiculous. Carl is being you could.

Carl is trying to act cool. Well, Victoria is just trying to be outrageous and she like clearly knows like this is stupid she's more of a human this season I feel like we see that she's making fun of herself and playing into that on the joke whereas whereas Carl maybe he is in on the joke but I don't know well I think I actually my guess is Victoria's being the same. It reads better in paradise. Yeah. What do you think of the goddess rebrand? Whatever.

It's a stick. It's fine. You're just you're just one of the Connors comment was amazing. What do you say? He said he said, but you put a bunch of zip ties on. It was great. And you know what? She did.

She kind of owned it. She didn't get flustered. Yeah. But it was also one of those things of she came out and I do think she didn't get she kind of owned it she didn't get flustered yeah but it was also one of those things if she came out and i do think she received an unnecessarily large amount of hate coming off of yes matt's season of like yeah she she could have handled herself better but she received so much online hate and like i think you know yeah maybe we're seeing a new version of her because of i just think it's fascinating it's the show's different and so therefore we react different to literally the

same stuff yeah it's this kind of a fan and i just want people listening just think about that when you're watching before you just fucking go off on people or you know exactly what you're seeing you're watching things through a different lens and you're seeing it different and again it's just a fucking show um noah no abigail gets a date card she asked noah then yeah she did ask noah he heavily pursued her i feel like from the second he like walked down those steps he was abigail was kind of like oh i'll see who comes like she she was putting her feelers out to everyone and then um what she was the first person out there and she first she was looking at joe she was looking at you know brendan and then noah was like

straight to her beeline yeah i uh i mean you see him on the date and right off the bat, Abigail kind of explained to America why she got the first impression rose and then fell off the face of the earth. Like why she wasn't the bachelorette. You know, I wanted her to be the bachelorette, you know, but she was just like, I'm closed off. I don't open up. And my guess is that's how she acted on The bachelor where she's just like i don't i can't she's an introvert so she appreciates one-on-one or small group settings as opposed to you know the party setting which is going to be very interesting how that plays out in paradise because it's constant you're constantly surrounded by other people um and if she's got the first date

card on the first night i can't imagine her getting another date anytime during the season like one-on-one date unless she's asked yeah or or we'll see how this relationship goes if it goes anywhere i mean this could literally be the start of like a relationship you see till the end right and quite honestly you know that you know tanner and jade from season two like they got together early on and you didn't see much of them because they just were off on their own. They weren't part of the drama. I've always been on the show.

I liked Noah because he's a young man who seems confident in himself. He seems to know himself whether you like it or not. He's just going to be him. I like, at least from those two like that personality i think is something that might work well with abigail's personality who he doesn't mind challenge like getting her to open up yeah and and i think it could be a match i i think the world of abigail i think she's like a gem that needs to be protected at all costs. And there's just something about Noah that like,

even when she was saying her boundaries of like, Hey, I usually am one to take things slow. And he's like, well, you can't do that. You can't like, there's something about like,

I feel like he's pressuring her to open up as opposed to guiding her into opening up and like, and, and creating enough trust into opening up yeah i mean i get what you're saying i don't i mean it's a fine line especially as we're watching it through the lens of a tv show of of there's just some i wouldn't say red flags i think they're just um i haven't seen the green flags yet from him. Gotcha. It seemed to have a nice turn, though. What?

I just disagree. Really? Yeah. I thought he was I thought he was lovely and charming. And I thought that he was like trying to recognize the situation that he was in is like, I'm in this kind of accelerated situation where I'm here with you. And I want to be able to get to know you kind of like as much as I can it was kind of like the way I took it that's how I saw it but there's this line that I feel like everyone says on dates of like oh I want to take things slow and taking

things slow means something different for every single human being and I think that we need to like get that line out of like dating scenarios or be more clear of like, is that physically I take things slow. Emotionally, I take things slow. Putting a label on things. I want to take things slow. I just want to date other people. So I want to take things slow. And if people just like clarified that, I think there would be a lot less problems in the world.

I agree in general, you know, especially we talk about that on the ask nick episodes all the time and i do agree with you that when i was watching that date at first i couldn't tell if this date was going well or not it seemed like it may be like from an editing there there was an awkwardness it almost seemed like okay well clearly you know here's noah that's kind of out out very outgoing yeah and and then abigail very kind of like i don't move that fast she needs some time to acclimate to being around cameras again like it's not a normal but then you got the turn and it seemed like i forgot what noah said to her but he was just very complimentary and and it seemed like he gave her some confidence to want to open up is how I, how I took it.

And it seemed like they had a nice date at the end and we'll see where, where it goes. I could see those two like being together the whole, whole season. You know, we had Noah on, on the podcast. He comes from a large family,

very traditional family values. He's still pretty young. Abigail more reserved i don't see it i think when noah was on the podcast he talked about being a one-woman guy and and not okay and i can see noah just being like i don't want i'm like whether he is right or wrong in his i'm going for abigail because it could just be like a young this is my person this is what i'm going to do and because it could just be like a young this is my person this is what i'm going to do and he's just decided before he's even gotten to know abigail i could see him being kind of resolute and i'm not going to get in the games i'm not here to like feel things out i'm not here to like test the waters i'm here for abigail and as long as she likes me

uh i could see that those two just doing their thing. But I could see Abigail breaking up with Noah. I don't see Noah breaking up with Abigail. Wow. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's always very telling when they're in these big group settings how much banter they have.

And I do think before they went on the date, Noah and Abigail absolutely looked like they were vibing together. So it will be interesting to kind of continue to watch them like what does it look like in these like how what's their body language like when they're on camera and they could have been definitely in each other's dms for sure yeah yeah so we don't we don't really know what else uh uh what else from this episode before we talk about potential bachelors for next season? I really appreciated the line where Kelsey said she's not looking for anyone to fill her holes. That was good.

And then, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for Wells to play therapist even more so this season. I feel like he's really taking over the, the part of Chris Harrison that we were missing of like explaining paradise, explaining the rules and, and David Spade's like, yep, that's them. Yeah.

We'll see. Got it. Yeah. He had a little session with, with Joe and Joe was like, I'm going to leave. And then he talked to... Cut to two seconds later.

Yeah, two seconds later. And Wells is like, don't leave. He's like, leave your heart open. He's like, I know you're upset, but open up your heart. Kind of a bachelor trope. He also mentioned something of like, he's like, I understand the PTSD of it all. Coming back here where you fell in love.

Well, that part is very accurate. I mean, there's real like like that world's fucked up i mean it's just it fucks with you and there is a lot of ptsd and so that i think that part is very genuine um and yeah we kind of already talked about the john serena p conversation i do really appreciate actually going back to joe of um you can tell when someone has a lot of like mental clarity because they don't their emotional maturity too of not talking poorly about their ex and he really didn't say anything other than like hey we grew apart it was mutual um i have a lot of respect for her um i'm just you know nervous to let those guards down again

yeah and from everything i heard and it was like Joe wanted to move back to Chicago, Kendall wanted to stay in LA, and they were both like, that was a- And she's from here too. It's not like she moved to LA to be an influencer. And we talk a lot about non-negotiables and pet peeves. That's a non-negotiable. My family is rooted in Chicago, mine's in LA,

and that is a big deal to me where's serena from do we know toronto which is actually uh more similar in culture in some ways to chicago and i mean when i was in toronto it feels kind of like chicago good people yeah people midwest you got the winters i mean i don't you know they're actually not that far from each other so who knows but like yeah i think kendall's very la and joe's very chicago and joe moved out here for a while what was the line about toronto being ugly toronto's ugly you're pretty yeah but i'm still trying to figure out your insides though because it was like toronto's ugly on the outside not like you awkward douchey line oh i actually i

tried to ask joe he hasn't gotten back to me yet because i just messaged him i couldn't tell when he first talked to serena p when he said to be honest it reminded me a lot of my conversation with kendall and i don't know was that a compliment was that a criticism i think it was because i think he was like i think he said it was like he was feeling the like oh shit i could fall in love when you know you know but isn't that why he wanted to be butterflies or something no but that's what i'm saying that's why that's how i first took it right but then again maybe it's just editing maybe it's all for the stakes of the show but then you had joe saying i don't think i'm gonna find it here he was talking to wells

being like i don't know like i just i'm here and i don't think i'm gonna find it it's not for me and it was more like maybe I, then I was like, well, maybe he's saying I've dated Kendall already. Right. Great. Not my person.

And it seems like they might, might seem very similar. And I don't know if that's the person for me. I took it as like, Hey, you're going to like you and your ex's favorite restaurant again for a date of like for the first time after you guys broke up so like you have so many memories with that one person and this is creating new memories with a new person but you're going in

and you're like wow this feels like like deja vu i can't not think of my ex like i remember that you know that alleyway where we like kissed or like that you know beach where we you know took a selfie like it's you just have so many memories with that person so it's hard to not have that at the forefront of your head and it was he was saying all those things before they actually had the the one-on-one on the daybed of um having that conversation where i think he was just like this is the person that i'm here for i don't want to get to know anyone else yeah that makes sense yeah like it got too real too fast for joe yeah i think that's what it was and he realized like what it could be again and then he was like i don't know if i

want to do this again yeah like fall in love with someone who lives in another country yeah it's like why'd you guys break up because like you know distance distance um and yeah and serena p on matt season was someone who's like whether she actually knows want what she wants think she knows what she wants and again i don't mean to be condescending to your serena p but like we've all met someone like you as you said kathy at 23 you think you know what you want and then you realize you want something different but either way Serena P left Matt because it was like this is not what I want and she seems like someone who's probably really close with her family and maybe she's like has no like I'm never gonna leave Toronto for all we know true and and joe's like well i mean she's rocking the canadian flag

so yeah um so that could be an issue uh before we wrap up uh oh then we want like demi uh great entrance demi's gonna demi i ship demi and dave i mean yeah uh demi is obviously a frat i think she's gonna come in and be she said she was gonna steal everyone's manat. I think she's going to come in and be Demi. She said she was going to steal everyone's man. Yeah. I wonder who she's going to go for first. Or is it just everyone? Yeah. It looks like Brendan, right?

Did it look like Brendan in that previous she was going? Hard to tell. No, wait. Wasn't there something about her and Kenny and Mari? Didn't Mari say something about Demi? Oh, there was that too. With the birthday cake. Yeah.

They showed her kissing, I think, Demi. Really hard. They showed her kissing, I thought, Brendan and Kenny. Yeah, really hard to make any sense of the promo. Demi's a WWE star now. Yeah. She doesn't need a Bachelor in Paradise anymore.

She's great. I mean, she, you know, it'll be interesting how people respond. I think if you're a fan of Demi, you're going to love her even more. And if you're a critic of Demi, you'll, you know, well, you're just a critic of Dem you love demi she's one of my best friends yeah so like i i think she's great and she's gonna come down and and just i think she's excellent tv and she's exactly what paradise needs for sure 100 percent uh i want

to take some time talk about about your thoughts on a potential bachelor the bachelor for the upcoming season there's you know we just finished Katie's season there's a lot of rumors going around who could be the potential bachelor and then I'm literally just thinking out loud we have

Michelle's season going on is that even a possibility no actually it's probably not because it would be airing yeah when they start filming so any of michelle's guys are actually kind of out of the running out of the running well said he thought someone from bachelor in paradise i i think that is probably grocery store joe but who knows maybe he's literally dating serena p that's just a guess on my part. But I could see that kind of like earnestness with love.

I can't see Joe agreeing to that though. If he's got this much pressure going, like he doesn't want to. Yeah, he would agree to it. Be in that. Okay. I would be my guess. I don't know for sure.

I don't know for sure. I hope it's not like a Thomas redemption. Becca breaks his heart kind of thing. I wonder. Thomas is not going to be The Bachelor. No. I really think if it's, I think Wells was talking about Joe would be my guess. I also know Joe, like, I mean, Wells really likes Joe.

I could see it. I think they're friends. I could see that. I want to be friends with Joe. It kind of reminded me of honestly how i became the bachelor where i had that pst and i was just like really struggling the whole time and that's kind of how they framed it and the walks on the beach you saw joe like you saw you know so that's how i could see joe potentially being in the running maybe brendan if you if they don't go the villain route

like you were saying yeah i could see that but the girls but I think... The girls will love Brendan. I don't know. So let's debate, like, let's discuss. Yeah. Joe, there's been rumors of Tyler Cameron, Andrew S., Michael, and let's throw in Greg. Okay. Just to see, I mean, because, you know,

you've even seen some conversations about that. And then, you know, with... Are we taking Ivan out? Yeah, we're taking ivan out i mean we cannot i sure i mean ivan's just so young like i just think realistically i don't think ivan's part of the conversation out of those if you have five options of people already that are what five six people that you just mentioned i i think ivan's great i just don't know that i would love to see i showed They showed him, his footage though,

they showed him with a kid and I feel like that's very heartthrob energy. I personally think Ivan would make a great bachelor. I don't think he's, my guess is he's not being considered. Even Andrew has a lot bigger of a personality able to carry a show like that. Andrew S. They're the same age.

That's my concern with both of them of like they're young. And so if you're 26, then you're going to be casting another round of girls that are 20 to 27 and America is going to be upset again. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I've said this not too long ago. I think being the Bachelor is not as attractive as a role as it used to be. That's why I can't see Tyler Cameron doing it. I would love to see him do it.

Don't get me wrong. I think America would love to see him do it and tune in every single week. But I just can't see him with the success that he's had outside of bachelor nation he doesn't need to do it i completely agree i think tyler cameron has zero chance to come out looking better than going in zero and that has nothing to do with tyler as the person who he is in life i don't think people fully appreciate just the lightning in the bottle that Tyler captured on Hannah Brown season. You know,

he's a remarkably good looking guy. He's a nice guy. He's a ladies man. These are all fine and good qualities to have on. We watched it through a lens of again, Hannah Brown being the bachelorette having all the power. So we watched that and then you know tyler and you had luke parker you had uh jed and you had peter i would argue that

realistically even though tyler took second he was probably like hannah's fourth or fifth favorite i say that and it's important because i don't think tyler ever felt the pressure that tana was ever really going to pick them. I say that with confidence. Yes. I think at the end he was like, you know, sure. But I think it was always Jed, especially after Luke left. And I think that matters going in.

Like, you're just not worried about you. Like, say what you want about whether you thought Greg handled it well. Like, I believe that he in that moment was really falling in love and then handled himself very poorly as a result of not being in control of his emotions like it's not an excuse but i think that is the reality i think where tyler was always in control so every time he talked to hannah we saw this guy who like knew what to say was very charming was always like about women empowerment and that was always after we saw luke parker being an asshole carrying guitar. And just he looked fabulous.

If Tyler becomes the bachelor, he is going to look like a major fuck boy. And not because it's because, well, one, like, listen, he's in the he's good looking. He's in his 20s. He's been dating, going around and as he should. Right. He's and so the the specific conversations he had with hannah about like all the right things to say but now he's the bachelor and now we're watching it through the lens of him having all the power and now it's going to be triggering to remind women of a guy

who always knows what's to say and and tyler it worked when he was only saying that one thing to one person it was always hannah making her feel better after she was sad about some bullshit she was dealing with but now you're gonna see tyler with all the power talking all these like charming sweet things over and over to all these women and it's gonna look like he's gonna be a major fuck boy i and and then you're gonna have women who he sends home we're gonna get in group text and talk a mad shit about Tyler. And it's just zero chance of him looking better. He should never. He should not.

If you're listening, don't fucking do it. And you're right. Because he has a huge platform. He has so much potential. Every woman in America, like every married woman who is like the audience of The Bachelor, that is their hall pass. Like Tyler Cameron is it. So this will ruin their image of like he is perfection.

And he probably does have more than 30 women in his DMs that he could be talking to on a daily basis. But to see it play out on a show, I feel like wouldn't. You're going to see it through a totally different lens. He's leveled up from that. Yeah, and it'll be interesting because, you know, it's still a tough world. I mean, it'd be interesting what...

I haven't talked to Tyler. I don't know what he's got going on, the opportunities. You can get lost in the rat race. He has two years removed from the show. He's done some other things and he's going to have to find his thing because being good looking

and the fact that he dated Gigi Hadid is only going to get him so far. And while popular, I could see him considering it because he's feeling less and like there's always like you get less and less of attention over and over. I don't know. I feel like he's going to just because of, like you said, lightning in a bottle of the beginning of quarantine was really when him and Hannah were doing all the TikToks. It created so much attention. And that's, you know, there was a lot of, you know, entertainment, pop culture stuff that happened in that time frame that garnered a lot more attention because we were all sitting on our couches with nothing to do.

So he's translated this into, you know, businesses, whatever. And I could see him, you know, doing acting stuff. I could see him doing... If I were acting stuff. I could see him doing... If I were him, I would just bunker down and take acting classes and improv classes and hosting classes and work. He's still young and get away from it all and like really trying to make something

a very unique opportunity. He's 27, 28, right? Like he's not 30 yet. So again, we're looking at someone who you're going to have to cast a lot younger. And if I'm being honest, like I don't know Tyler at all, but I don't think that he's ready

to get engaged and married tomorrow. If he's not asked to be the bachelor and he doesn't accept it. Yeah, I don't. And that again, not a criticism at all. He may be, I don't know. He's out there dating. And yeah, I don't think marriage

is on his like five year plan plan or two-year and if it happens i could see if he wants to be bachelor in five years if this show is still around he would be the perfect back job yeah maybe we'll see what he does in the next five years i just think people have to like think about how much we loved peter and i like peter as a person but we saw him totally different after his season i don't think people fully appreciate just, like I'm thinking about how we saw Matt James before he went in and after, you know, like our, like it is really hard to go in looking, you know, Ben Higgins was the, I was different

because I was always starting in the bottom and I ended up looking better than I did. But like Ben Higgins was the last person who you saw only his best moments on The Bachelorette, fan favorite and still remained a fan favorite afterwards. Yeah, like didn't have a fall from grace or a humanizing. The Bachelor needs a win. The Bachelor needs a really good lead

who is going to marry the person that he thinks is right. It's got to be Michael. Michelle, though. Well, Michelle's going to be great. No, Bachelorette is fine. Bachelorette has, not that they have the best track record, but they have a better track record than the men. Yes.

And so we need a win for the guys of the Michael A is like the only option I feel like for having that. Totally agree. Again, we all were watching it through different lenses. The show is different now. The show used to get away with casting boys. Even Sean Lowe was like a boy at the time. He said it of like he needed time to mature with Catherine after they got off the show.

And we liked watching that. I think Bachelor Nation is watching it through a different lens with higher expectations of their men. And rightfully so. We want to see a guy who knows what he wants, who doesn't play games, et cetera, et cetera. And Bachelor, this is where they get themselves in trouble of not adapting to the times, is casting these like boys.

Peter lived with his family. Matt James had like literally never had, like never been in love. And so we're watching it and then we end up hating these guys after the fact, you know? And so yeah, if you cast Tyler, who's just like, hey, listen,

I'm right now, I'm just dating and everyone's gonna be like, who's just like, Hey, listen, I'm right now. I'm just dating. And I, I, everyone's going to be like, he, it's going to be triggering for a lot of people watching it. And it would be a terrible idea for him specifically. And I think it's hard, but I totally agree. When's the last time that we had a lead that had a child of like bringing the kid into it?

I know Emily Maynard back in the day, Juan Pablo, but the kid wasn't on the show all the time. Like that was another thing. Like it wasn't. Yeah. I think with Michael, my fear is that I think it would be his if he wanted it. I think logistically, I think it's.

Oh, Jason Mesnick. Oh, yeah. Jason Mesnick. Yeah. That was a whole lot. I know. No one remembers that. I'm the only one.

Yeah. No, I would would michael's my choice i think i think we could use a uh what's that mbc show that everyone cries this is us this is us this and us season of michael i'm fine with it yes and i think he's mature he knows what he wants i think he could handle the pressures of being the bachelor and i think he could have a chance of being just as likable and if he's able to bring his kid on because that was the the biggest point of like wanting to be and i think that that would actually be really refreshing yeah i totally agree i just don't know i don't know if he will i don't know if he will do it yeah um did you see all of the uh all of that there was one commercial for um casting the senior bachelor they've been rolling those yeah they've been rolling it for a while they must be having some trouble with casting we're looking for seniors and then this specifically was we're

looking for a senior bachelor i was like so someone over 35 is that what you're looking for i think they mean like full like no i know yeah well i think they you first saw it before the pandemic so then they had to shelve it Yeah And then another game Back to it So like A spinoff series And they're always Yeah Can you think of anything

More unsafe during a pandemic Of like a bunch of seniors Together in the room Yeah I think that I hope they watch it And I hope they air it And I think Yeah I want to

I want to see Whoever the cast Is the Bachelor A mature guy Which is like I I don't Like i don't you know greg came on and talked about how he's not ready like i could who i could see them considering

greg for all the reasons they've considered bachelors in the past because they like someone who hasn't figured himself out i really i am not a greg hater by any means i feel like he would need to go on a bachelor in paradise season or something to redeem himself before America would accept him as the bachelor. Well, that's, you could argue that because he's so polarizing right now,

he actually would have an opportunity to redeem it. Redeem it. It could literally could be a season about like mental health and how you can work on yourself while falling in love they could lean into that narrative i really want to learn how to communicate better yeah and kind of own that and like it's about that which could be interesting and he at least would have a chance of like an arc where you know andrew s i don't know anything about him there's a guy seemed to like him you know it's like the mike johnson like people will still bring up mike johnson and like mike johnson went

to paradise and none of the women were into him there's a reason why he's not being considered yeah the bachelor now i don't know anything about andrew s we all loved him we saw his best moments katie wasn't that into him so maybe he's just like not the guy who's like can be he liked him though i mean like i feel like he had that moment no but when she ran down and and um i don't know she she tried to get him back and like that was his moment he's like no i left on a good note like i know that this is this is not how i can't come back and then you dump me next week like that's not gonna play well i just think there was some performing on Katie's part. Oh.

Yeah. So I would love a season. I loved Andrew S. Wait, were you saying that Katie was an actor? I think she was doing some acting. Oh. Yeah. I mean, every lead has to, to a certain degree.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. But yeah. But that's actually a reason why I feel like because that was such a point why i feel like because that was such a point of contention and it was brought up on after the final rose would america be okay with greg coming on in this role of bachelor because even though everyone every lead has to do some acting has to do it's a weird environment it's called out of like he has acting training is he actually being real on this this

season yeah i mean i don't i don't think if he if they named him they would make much a big deal i mean i literally had taking acting classes before i was the bachelor it wasn't talked about at all i mean yeah i i don't see also to i think you've said this before of like taking one acting class. It doesn't make sense. Yeah. Come on. Most people who take acting classes are not great actors. Yeah. Let me tell you.

So like I just think it's such a silly thing, again, that a bachelor nation will pick up on. And like with TikTok and the internet, they run with these storylines. And they give it the oxygen even though there's just nothing there. But're right and maybe people who want to be out of the spotlight aren't on this show yeah that's what at the end of the day that's what it is so i don't know who they're gonna pick but um i still hope it's michael it'll be it my i hope michael joe greg andrew i mean i do think tyler would be interesting and i think it would get the biggest I hope Michael, Joe, Greg, Andrew. I mean, I do think Tyler would be interesting

and I think it would get the biggest buzz. That would get the most viewers. It would, yeah, definitely get the biggest buzz. But I think by the end of the season, it would be the same kind of like, ugh, I really think it would, I think fans would watch it with kind of like, this is not what I expected.

Do you think they could change in bringing on like a Tyler as the lead and then you cast people that are, already have some sort of following in their own right? I don't think it has anything to do with it. I just think Tyler. I feel like that's the type of people that he's going to be dating. think tyler i feel like that's the type of people that he's going to be dating in bachelor oversimplifies people and in bachelor world tyler's a fuck boy i'm not saying tyler's a fuck boy in life he's just out there being a good looking guy dating in his prime but in bachelor world the reality is and instead of like getting to see your best moments he has to carry every scene and have every conversation have that same conversation with 30 people, not just one.

And he has the power and people will see that as a guy who knows what to say to women in the right, in the right situations. And I just think by the end of the season, you'll just be like, yeah, you're not, you won't be rooting for him like you were before. Kathy. Yes. Always a pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you for having me on. Thank you for coming on. You'll always have to, you're always invited having thank you for coming on uh you'll always have to you're always invited back uh please let the people know again where they can find you what you're working on so they can consume all your wonderful content i mean i've been working on some stuff hopefully hopefully i can announce it soon i'm really excited about it but in the meantime you can follow me on twitter at katherine kelly kathy's with a c and then on instagram at kathy kelly awesome uh well thanks for listening guys we appreciate you tuning in don't forget to Follow me on Twitter at Catherine Kelly. Kathy's with a C. And then on Instagram at Kathy Kelly.

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