The Viall Files - E312 Bachelor In Paradise Recap With Dave Holmes

Episode Date: September 1, 2021

Today we recap Bachelor In Paradise with  one of our recap staples Dave Holmes. Dave and Nick break down two nights of Paradise which is not an easy task with these drama filled episodes. They have your hot takes on everything from fights with Mari & Demi & Aaron & Thomas , Bachelorette Becca hitting the beach, Tia & Kendals arrivals, contestant exits, and couple changeups. So strap in cause there is a lot to cover.  “Oh we are going to the 2021 Smoke , Show this year, they are going to debut the new smokes for the year…” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today!   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Hunt A Killer: http://www.HuntAKiller.com/VIALLFILES  and use VIALLFILES, for 20% off your first box Fable: http://www.fablehome.co use the code VIALL to take 10% off your first purchase   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @daveholmes See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files bachelor and paradise recap edition and we have a lot to talk about and boy thank god we have dave holmes back in the studio to help us break this down hello nick hello dave welcome back thank you so much you you are so much more tatted up than the last time i was here uh i am yeah yeah did you did you get them all at once no it was like a like over the course of two months somebody had been planning on doing for for some time now and then once i pulled the trigger they all kind of tell a story of a family member and i have a large uh-huh family it suits you jeff jeff i love that jeff i love it it I love him he's

really good when is the dog date happening I feel like I've been I feel like Jeff and I have been trying a little bit harder but you've been you did invite me to that one event and I couldn't make it you know we'll make it work we'll make it work

we have a lot to talk about Dave being the expert that he is is going to help us break it down. Before we get into the episode, quick reminder, we have a very special and amazing episode tomorrow with the wonderful Tyler Merritt, who's back with us to talk about his new book, talk about life, inequalities. He has a lot to say about a lot lot of things honestly you know how how we can get over our anger how you know he shares his stories about his life uh he shares some stories

about the conversations he's had recently with chris harrison a real powerful episode with tyler so you don't want to miss that that is tomorrow or really like in a few hours depending on when you're listening this because there's a good chance if you're listening to this the Tyler episode is already out so give that a listen right after this episode don't forget to send your questions at ask Nick at castme.com

cast with a K for ask Nick episodes if you are tuning in for paradise you do not want to miss our ask Nick episodes a lot of relationship and dating conversations, stories, and answers. If there's nothing else, let's get to this recap. Let's go right to Paradise. Dave, I felt like Monday's episode was an all-timer. Do you now?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was solid. It was solid. Action-packed. Yeah, it really was. I mean, both nights, honestly was solid um action-packed yeah it really was it really i mean both nights honestly were really action-packed so to the degree that i was like when things were happening i was like i i don't understand why that's happening like uh taj leaving that just was like oh yeah it was abrupt did i miss something uh i wonder the same thing yeah

my understanding from my sources. Your sources on the inside. They absolutely love her. She's, as we know, amazing TV. She's truly herself. She's not trying to be funny. This is just who she is. But with great power is sometimes hard to contain.

And I guess there's some burnout and she just kind of reaches a point where it's everyone just says and in taj included it's time to go and i think i think you know that's what you have i wouldn't be shocked if we saw taj juan back next absolutely you're actually she's a a truly a gift from a tv standpoint but it's it's a pacing issue it's a pacing issue okay okay yeah so yeah she does not understand that it is a marathon perhaps she's not a sprint yeah she is sprinting okay and she's like i'm gonna give you max effort and we'll see how long i can last okay and when she's done she's done well i mean it's an improvement on last year right i mean it seems

as though she stayed a bit longer a bit longer yeah yeah yeah still desperately hot and uncomfortable yeah but yeah okay good but it just kind of speaks to how much we they have going on i i don't remember the numbers from previous seasons but it does seem like there are more people on the beach in any given moment is that is that accurate it's a cast of thousands it seems like a lot and there's just constantly storylines over and over we open up the episode you know again it's just that there's so much going on for those of you like we might have already forgotten this this episode opened up with marissa and riley yeah you know that seems like forever ago in the boom boom boom boom room now

is this real is it's oh it is what do you mean by real i mean is the boom boom room a place or is it a is it a destination of the mind no it's something that was named both right i think it's a metaphor for what people hope there's the tree house there's something that was named both right i think it's a metaphor for what people hope there's the tree house there's like three different sex rooms okay there's the boom boom room okay uh there's the tree house tree house and then there's another room i don't know if that has a name um i for and if it does i forget but there's three basically couples room and you have you have to be a couple to sleep in these there's three basically couples rooms and you have you have to be a couple to sleep in these rooms i see i don't think you have to like promise the

producers gonna have sex but once you couple up you can sleep in these three different rooms if you want to do they all have cameras or are we looking at the same room all the time no they all have night vision cameras. Got it. Okay. Is there anywhere outside of the range of the cameras and microphones where people also go and hook up? Not really. The bathrooms, I don't believe, have these things.

Okay. And I don't know. I can't speak for everyone. I'm sure maybe, but I don't think so. I don't remember that being a thing on my time. That was four years ago, so things might have evolved since then. don't i don't think so i don't remember that being a thing on my time it's that was you know okay four years ago so things might have evolved since then okay like you know for jen and i when we were coupled up there there's often a lot of thunderstorms there yeah which are quite cool

and the power does go out so it's very sexy when the power would go out it not only was really kind of hot and steamy but we benefited from the you could see that the the night vision cameras like have a light oh yeah that's like a you can tell when it's on uh-huh and like it went off so okay so then it was just yeah so just i uh all bets were off it was fine okay i don, I don't think we really, um, but Marissa opens up with, uh, it's,

it was kind of funny because like, I, you know, she probably was just kind of like, yeah, we went there, but like she was talking to us, America,

her ITM is if like, we didn't just watch her and Riley go to the boom, boom room. She's like, you know, we had a nice time and I think I'm digging Riley and she was like we were talking all night yeah we were talking all night like you didn't see the camera there you know you were using your mouth

I mean but it's possible that they were just talking right or did we actually see I think we saw some coitus did okay i mean we saw bodies rolling around but i mean you know riley's a closer stuff minimum yeah okay riley he might be a lawyer and he definitely has a gift for the gab but riley is a closer i don't this is not the type of you know if it was connor b in that situation and he came out being like yeah we fucked last night i would be like okay buddy they showed the footage it's just connor with his guitar ukulele and his jason moraz energy yeah he brings to paradise yeah well i would not buy that but yes riley okay okay i believe it so we have uh you know so chris chris and chasen walked out and they're the smoke show guy what i i feel like i feel like they're they're trying to bamboozle me with that i don't

remember anything about i remember chasen i don't remember chasen uh chris no one really knew no one who knows who the fuck this guy is he had a jalapeno in his opener like for the next episode so in the next episode he was like holding a jalapeno. But I was like, does that have any significance, anything to like, he did. Here is why Chris is on the show. First off, no joke. When he was walking down, we only got a shot of his legs. I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure.

I wasn't sure. Right? I was like, oh, is this a guy or a girl? I forget about the rotation. He has very pretty legs. He does. Lovely legs. Props to Chris. Yeah. or girl i forget about the rotation he has very pretty legs he does lovely legs props to chris though yeah these guys i wrote down look like police sketches of handsome guys you know what

i mean they're not they don't they're like not unattractive but they're like it's like somebody very quickly tried to make a handsome guy they do very well in the bar scene right like to that you know like they're the they're just good looking enough that when you have a few drinks they probably clean up chris is my understanding chris is on the show because he's part of what is this new kind of san diego bachelor you know gang oh which katie is now a part of uh apparently okay yeah she got engaged to uh a canadian blake yeah so how soon we forget she gets engaged to blade but she's like no i'm gonna go uh i'm gonna move to where i'll both like a five other dudes for my season are living and leave blake in canada interesting. Things are going well.

James is in this bit. So no, this Chris guy is in it. So Chris, Chris James is San Diego. I think Chris James might be as well. Okay. But Chris is on the show because good for him.

He, you know, had a cup of coffee on Claire season gets sent home night one, but as an inserted himself in this, what appears to be this kind of, you know, high school be this kind of, you know, high school ish kind of San Diego gang.

So he's been part of the drama and fast forward to like wondering how the fuck did Chris come in here being an absolute nobody. And listen, that matters in paradise because it's high school. It's a popularity contest for all these people who are just like, Oh, I love you. It's just like, who has the most followers who's the most relevant that plays a

role to a certain degree in every one of these relationships and here this chris is absolute nobody shows up and you wonder like how is he completely stealing jessenia from ivan a fan favorite good-looking polished guy well it's because they hang out in san diego apparently katie's posting pictures of this this apparently happy couple and so that we we got bamboozled uh by jessenia and and chris because these pictures are floating around on the internet nothing good happens in san diego but that's why you got that's how you gotta watch out for san diego props for chris that's how he showed up in the show the producers are like, I guess he's just hanging out with bachelor people. So this is going to be, this is going to feed into the drama.

I was getting a kind of a fluid vibe from Chris and Jason when they showed up. I was like, oh, is this? I was going to, I wanted your expert opinion. My radar isn't always the best yeah uh neither is mine but that one i i was certain that it was like oh these are the guys who were sort of bi-curious and you know they're gonna wells is gonna make him a cocktail and you know who knows who knows what may happen next that was my feeling because that's because we've been there with women right we haven't been there with women, right?

We haven't been there with men yet. It's a difficult step for TV to take, right? But that was kind of why I felt that they were there. I wasn't sure about Chris. I mean, even from the legs. Yeah, yeah. Right off the bat. Also, Smoke Show just reeks of performative heterosexuality to me you know what i mean i don't you know i mean chrissy could go uh all day she i i don't think it's that big of

a deal i think it is a very silly thing to say and and i just it feels like something uh like a panicky 12 year old boy says in the locker room just to be like girls it's not just smoke show uh we were talking before about whether or not girls would like to be called smoke show and i was like to me that comes off as like you have nothing else to say like smoke bro smoke show like the smoke bro but the smoke what's it even supposed to mean i really just think it comes down to interest and delivery i guess context. Yeah. Context. Where it's like if you're saying, if you're having like an engaging, good bantery conversation and then they call you a smoke show, it's like, wow.

I totally agree with Chrissy and Dave in the sense that if you're at a bar scene and a broey, chasing like figure walks up to you and goes, you're such a smoke show. You're, that's an eye roll. Yeah. If you're like flirting with a guy you find really attractive and such a smoke show you're that's an eye roll yeah if you're like flirting with a guy you find really attractive and he just goes to you fuck your smoke show then you could then i could see how context how like god damn it it's really it worked on me you're just like fuck god you're just a fucking smoke show you're so you know like i just don't know what it's

supposed to mean like oh we're going to the 2021 smoke show this year we're gonna they're gonna debut the new smokes for the year i don't i don't get smoke show i don't get shit show we seem to start using them at the same time and they just like hit maximum saturation immediately i don't know yeah i don't like it but they they show up and yes they're they're they're essentially two nobodies who are just off kind of they need a brand they kind of have an ick quality to them where they're like they're kind of handsome to your point but it's just like they the the bachelor the bachelor franchise's ability to cast tall good-looking men without any game is truly that's their gift that is their ultimate gift their casting department

is they are so good at finding tall attractive men with zero game once in a while you you get some game you know there's plenty of you know Riley clearly has game there's a handful of people but like more than half their guys you would how do

you not know how to how do you look like this and it's just it's shocking bad so you know there's cameras though no that that might throw you off a little bit but you find thinking about what you're saying and how it's going to play at home i guess you know who seems to have game is noah that noah totally has noah has game it's been confirmed he has game by many people. Like, yeah, like you might not see it on TV, but he knows how to talk.

Kenny has Orlando game. Kenny has game for sure. Yeah. Kenny's got like a very specific kind of game. He's got that Orlando magic. Yes, he's got that Orlando magic. You're absolutely right. Yeah, he's got a thing that works in a place, and he's in that place, and I'm psyched for him.

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Also, it might just be an accident. But I don't know if you guys were as shocked as I was that they seem to be having success on this date. And obviously, as we now know, there seems to be some history between Yesenia and this Chris guy. Did we have any opinions on the tantric, uh, so awkward. Yeah. It just really seemed like each other thing.

Oh yeah. I actually did any, it was anyone else truly bothered by the strawberry kisses. It was like, Oh my God. It was this, it was like, okay,

I get it. Lady and tramp. It's like they do it. And it was just so awkward that they not realize and then there's just senia picks up another strawberry just go with the one to get the kiss i i find but then go for the make out make out but she's like no we should do this again and then you get a close-up of them like kissing while chewing half of a little strawberry it was disgusting i really i blocked it out like a trauma like you're talking

to me about it and i'm like now i'm remembering but maybe the producers asked them to do it again no no you don't think so i don't maybe get it the second time they did it it was more successful than the first it was bad like they didn't get it the first time so they did yeah it was like the second time it was a clean break and i did watch closely. Yeah. I just think you go for the make out. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. It just really,

that whole thing seemed like four people who were terribly self-conscious on camera blowing on each other and stuff. It just seemed like, I don't, I don't want to be there. They don't want to be there. Couldn't wait for it to be over. It was just a weird,

awkward thing. So now we get into kind of the heart of how things the women have the roses yes i found this to be fascinating and a catalyst for really all a lot of the drama because as we now we know mari made some very terrible tactical decisions yes it seems like a lot of these people on the beach they don't you know they they they know they're playing a game this whole like right reason they are all there to be on tv every single one of them even joe and they're open to love joe i believe definitely doesn't need to be there and i believe that but like they're and they're open to love joe i believe definitely doesn't need to be there and i believe that but like they're and they're all open to love so they're they're all playing like many of them

especially mari is playing checkers not chess they're thinking about the week they're not they're not thinking moves ahead they're just thinking one move ahead so i think mari she likes Kenny, but she wants the rose to mean something. She's like, I have this rose. I'm not going home this week. I like Kenny, sure, but I want Kenny to sweat. I want a guy to come in, ask me on a date. I want to say yes, and then go back to Kenny. Right.

I want to say yes. And then go back to Kenny. Right. And she tells him she like she sits down with Kenny and was just like she made no sense. And I love that every step of the way. Like, you know, Kenny definitely presents as a fuck boy. Yeah. I don't know how man he but he's I don't he's I don't think he's a dummy at all. He's just kind of calls out like

you're not making any also like kenny i don't know where he is in in his fuck boy stages but i'm sure kenny has had some fun and so when mari is having this conversation with kenny he's just like i know what you're doing i've probably done it for years and And Kenny, it just doesn't work on Kenny. You can't fuck boy a fuck boy. Exactly. I don't. Yeah. And it's, you know, they did just get there.

Right. I mean, it's still fairly new in the season. I don't buy. I don't buy that any kind of emotional bond can happen that quickly. Certainly not with a Kenny. You know what I mean? Like there's that's that's a guy with a lot of star tattoos. You know what I mean? They're all stars is my understanding.

They're all some version of stars. Yeah. So I don't know what that means. But you're right. He's probably not going to get there quickly, which is why it was just a tactical era. Yeah, don't call it out. Just do what you can do.

It didn't make sense. And yet she stuck to this story for two episodes, which is, wait, I didn't want to date other people. I just wanted to say yes to a date. Yeah. And she like, the only time I think she realized that she, how dumb she sounded was when, and this is like in my experience when i've fought with girlfriends when they completely shift and kind of give you a well whatever and they say something to try to hurt you like demi like mari does to demi where she's like well whatever kenny said he wanted to fuck me you know like and it was like all right well now you now i know you know you lost mari because like you're just trying to hurt demi's feelings by degrading yourself i don't it was a

mess it was a mess by the way i did look up uh kenny's uh boy band cover band oh yeah they were on a chicago morning show and i i can't i don't know what time frame it was from it could have been 10 years ago it could have been last week i don't know what time frame it was from. It could have been 10 years ago. It could have been last week. I don't know. He, like as a manager, dressed up like a manager, I was like, ooh, that guy's handsome. I didn't recognize him at first

because he was like clothed. Sure. And the tattoos were covered up and whatever. The band itself is like three youth pastors singing in sync songs, basically. Have you seen them? I'm not familiar. You can't tell if they're 22 or 42.

You can't, like, it's just, it's a weird, it's a strange energy. Age ambiguous? Age ambiguous. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be tough for them. I don't know if your manager's supposed to be more famous than your band. Yeah.

Well, Sam might get them some gigs. Who knows? Your manager being popular will bring popularity to the band. Yeah, I don't know. Because Dave looked it up, and he probably would will bring popularity to the band. Yeah, I don't know. Because Dave looked it up, and he probably would have never looked it up before. That is true. What did we think? So then Mari talks to Demi, and she's like, hey, I want to date other guys.

And Demi's been very clear. Again, if you don't like Demi, you're not going to like Demi. If you're not into raunchy humor and saying what this is, Demi's is like, I'm here for TV, and I'm here to have fun. We should all be doing it. Demi is trying to rally the troops and being like, this is the way I'm going to play. You should all play this way. She's very upfront about that but she stopped short of telling mari okay well i yeah i think

you should do this but i'm i might go after the guy uh that you're about to put on the sideline do you think demi owed mari that upfrontness or not? No. I don't, see, I don't like the whole, I don't like the horny person being made out to be the villain. I agree. She's there to go and have fun, which you should be, right? But they like, it seems like the producers are making it look like

because she is, because she likes sex and wants to go down there and have fun, that that's like she's a sex villain. I don't know if it's the producers or the audience of Bachelor Nation. I mean, you're seeing Demi say these things. She said it. I don't have a problem with it. I mean, everyone knows I'm friends with Demi and I'm obviously going to defend my friend.

I also simultaneously, even if I wasn't friends with Demi, I like the honest, authentic people. Like the theme of these two episodes and in life, and we talk about this on the show, like Kenny is probably a fuck boy in life or has been.

He is on the beach fucking. He's having sex. He's dating Mari. He has sex with Demi. He has a topless date with Tia. He's just out there doing whatever the fuck and totally getting away with it. Why? Because he's just fucking honest.

Yeah. And Brendan is barely doing anything with Natasha. He barely will talk to her. He kisses Natasha like a six-year-old is forced to kiss their grandma. When he's getting massages from Natasha and he looks so uncomfortable. His back is, that is not a man who's like relaxed for a massage. He had like a bowl in his back. And yet he is presenting himself as a fuck

boy because he's just omitting the truth you know he just he's trying to get to next week for piper you just you can see it and yet he and that's what's that's in life and on the show fucking doesn't make you a fuck boy lying does omitting the truth okay you can fuck all you want and not be a fuck boy on this show and in life that's why you know go back to like blake or dean and years if you just show up and be like i'm here to have a bunch of sex i've had a bunch of sex before some people not like me for it whatever i like to fuck yeah you'll have some critics but like the people on the beach won't hate you and therefore bachelor nation overall will just respect that you're honest like i don't think kenny's starting

drama you know he's just he's just you know he's being a fuck boy yeah he's which men are allowed to do and women it has to come with well that i you got to be like this viper or whatever well i totally agree with that like i i don't i i haven't looked at twitter but like yeah it's disappointing that if anyone's slut shaming demi or fuck even trey this episode where he called they were slut shaming marisa marissa who was people on the beach internet oh really yeah i mean like unfortunately yeah unfortunately bachelor nation has a ultra they every bachelor nation is everyone yeah there are people on the left or people on the right super liberal super conservative and there's an ultra conservative element who watches the bachelor who uh are gonna be you know fans of your peter virgin maddie maddie you know the ultra they love maddie because they let you know, fans of your... Peter Virgin. Maddie. Maddie.

You know, the ultra, they love Maddie because, you know, that's his patronage. And yeah, so it's really sad. I like that, you know, the Marissa or the Demi. But Trey, I mean, Trey, Tammy does exactly to Aaron what Aaron did to her two days before. Right, with Serena C. With Serena C.

Aaron was literally sitting on one of these day beds, sitting there. Yeah. And Serena C is straddling Aaron, making out. Serena C leaves. Insert Tammy. Yeah. Aaron doesn't move.

He's just letting... And he's got no problem with that and yet because it's his arch enemy thomas yeah uh trey calls tammy she says she's demonstrating trash bag human behavior that's you know overall like trey but like that's slut shaming yeah that's pretty like what she's made out with two fucking dudes oh my god like god forbid on the fuck show on the fuck show fuck show in paradise fuck show in paradise it was 100 like when's fuck you don't think he called her a trash bag because it was thomas you think it was because of the like physical we can't expect everyone to follow the drama i don't know i'm sure thomas was a catalyst for being angry

but it was still slut shaming in the fact that he was he targeted tammy and was talking about her making out with thomas and straling him that that's why he was referring to her as trash like garbage like you know slutty or whatever i mean that's a different way of saying you're trash you're being you're used good like whatever you know trash and things you want to throw out you know whatever and yeah thomas was the catalyst but like he could have been like he could have said a lot of other things that had nothing to do with making out with thomas and why because tammy made out with two dudes like give me a fucking break literally the assignment on this show is to make out with dudes yeah i girls i also love deandra her and chasing go out my favorite parts is carl being like hey i want to i want to take you to the spot where we met, you know, to like give you this bracelet.

And then like, I know we were here 10 minutes ago. Yeah. Because like we have nowhere to go. And like we're all using the same bed. But I want to take you back to the spot where we first met. Let's pretend we were also sitting here five minutes ago with a group of people. But it's just kind of like so corny. And then gives her the bracelet that is known to give to mother-in-laws and moms.

I learned this. I didn't know. I don't know this. But he legit brought it. Yeah. And it's like very much, it's like Noah's line of saying like, well, Carl gave Deandra a Pandora bracelet, gave the same one to my mom in 2000 so hopefully they still work yeah i didn't get a good look at it what were they blurring on

demi what at which point i think just her they were nip cheeks and okay yeah because i think she made made made it on really i think I think so. Oh. Yeah. Because when she was talking to Kenny at one point, she was like, oh, my nip came out. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know.

I've been lied to by the censor bar. Yeah. They kind of colored. There was a scene where you could see her lime green. It was like they painted more swimsuit on her. Sometimes they black box it. Sometimes they just make it seem like it's just a more fuller swimsuit on her sometimes they black box it sometimes they just make it seem like it's just a more fuller swimsuit i see uh like thongs are in so all these women are

just like bare assing it yeah um could you like change the angle so that you don't have to like get george lucas involved in this show i don't know no no I don't know. But I do love how this one day bet is getting so much action. You're going to the day bet? I can't believe it. It's hysterical. Carl gives the bracelet. Carl's just there for TV. That's what I've learned about Carl is that that he he doesn't care now i'm not in

any way defending carl but i've now i'm trying to understand carl is that i do think he just doesn't he just wants to be on tv he just doesn't care what he has to do to get on tv he will say literally whatever the fuck because it's getting it and when he pulls chasen to confront him he kind of outs himself because chasen's like so like what do you want to talk about man and carl goes i don't know man we'll see and i believe in that like you got a very honest response from carl he's like i don't fucking know like i'm pretty sure like i'm just gonna fight you because like you took the girl that i like i'm just gonna be mad let's pretend and took the girl that I like. I'm just going to be mad. Let's pretend to be mad. And let's pretend to be mad.

Yeah. And I just, you know, Kenny, whatever he, Carl, he lists out, he's talking to Deandra in the most insincere way. You know, he's just like, I have, I've never felt, he talks to her without any feeling. Yeah. He's just like, you're, I don't know what he says specifically, but it's just like, I have such like an unamazing connection with you but it's just he's just talking to her and he just goes on a list of like so i like you and you're really pretty and you're nice and i think we have a special

connection and right he's literally talking to her like this yeah it's like you know like ai made a heart like crafted the speech based on other bachelor heart to hearts kind of like like a sketch of the handsome yeah like also job interviews yeah yeah like just snapchat you put the text and it reads it back if you wanted the the computer voice that's how carl sounds when he's talking to deandra yeah about like what he likes about her gives her a bracelet his heart is not in the fuck show it's just not well and then that moves into the whole like birthday party thing that demi throws oh my god with the cake and the decorations i feel like kenny's probably like shut the fuck

up about the fact i'm 40 yeah well you gotta have a gotta have a gimmick i think he kind of knew go again yeah i think he's a good sport about it i don't really think he cares that much obviously this is like a production but like you know demi's not in the kitchen yeah she's not ordering it so like demi being like i'll fucking give him a cake you know this is fun you know she gives him the cake and again i just think uh mari just i don't know if she's not smart enough or whatever, or she just doesn't that lack of self-awareness, but like she just had at no point. Here's what I don't get.

Like, listen, fine. You, you wanted to, you wanted to see, you wanted to give your rose some power and meaning rather than just being in a relationship and already knowing who you're going to give your rose to when the

week started. Like, that's no fun. She got greedy, but like, as soon as Demi starts talking to Kenny, and already knowing who you're going to give your rose to when the week started. Like, that's no fun. She got greedy. But like, as soon as Demi starts talking to Kenny, why don't you just go over to Kenny and say, I don't know what the fuck I was talking.

Like, I don't know. This is paradise. I'm stupid. I like you. I'm sorry. I know you're talking to Demi I fucked up I don't want to go on dates can we go back

she never does that she just proceeds to just like start talking to the other girls be mad that Demi's moving in on Kenny so why not just go to Kenny and be like you know what I'm saying? I don't like, why didn't you do that?

Talk to any other guy who's there. Sure. I mean, she could have done that too. Yeah. But like, I'm just trying to figure out because she's mad. She's mad at Kenny. She's mad at Demi. Okay, fine.

Be mad at Kenny. Be mad at Demi. But like, you could try to fix this and fixing it isn't being mad at Kenny or Dem but you could try to fix this. And fixing it isn't being mad at Kenny or Demi or throwing cake in a fire. It's not wasting food. It's either talking to other men because that's what you wanted to do. Right. Or realize that you got greedy and you really like Kenny.

And seeing Kenny talk to other women makes you realize that like you don't want and that happens all the time we all we sometimes get greedy and then we see that person do some shit and you're like what the fuck am i what the fuck am i doing yeah like i like you yeah just and so own up to it apologize and and and see if eat some cake and eat some cake but like she doesn't do that so i'm just like what where where where does where does mari think she has an argument i don't i don't understand and then she did say in a confessional though she said something like she was like i'm about to go into a mode and i don't like this girl so it seems like this is maybe something that she's experienced before when she gets like really emotionally volatile that like something gets activated within her.

I get that. But the scary part is there's she doesn't have any real justification for it. That's what's scary about dating someone like Mari. I think that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know who Mari is and maybe she's lovely human, but like just what we're watching from a TV show. She's 100 100 in the wrong yeah and yet she felt justified to lose her shit and and say in her itm like i don't fuck like you know mr hyde might come out and i don't like this person but she feels justified

for it yeah you know well you know taking a breath and like figuring out what it is you're angry about and what you're gonna like what's the mature way through it is a a skill and b probably not great television right like i'm glad she threw it in the shirt sure yeah now we get to talk about it yeah yeah yeah but yeah no i can i I've been, I've done that for sure, where I'm just like, I'm furious and I don't know why. And it's because I didn't, you know, I didn't do the difficult thing and make myself vulnerable and say like, I like you. would have been fucking pissed i'm like what like give me a slice of that cake right i don't right it's such a such a waste loved demi's reaction laugh like it didn't bother her at all like she didn't care like and that's the thing i personally think is great is that like demi i think or maybe demi and i have some like i know i can be petty and I know when I'm being petty. Like it's an active decision of being like, fuck it. I just, I'm going to be petty right now.

Fuck it. I don't, I don't really particularly care for this situation, but I'm in control of my pettiness and I can, at some point I'm like, all right, stop being petty. So like Demi is being petty when she's like, I'm going to fuck shit up. But she's not petty in a like Aaron. Aaron is insanely petty, but he doesn't know how not to be petty. That's his default. He's just an inherently petty person because it seems like he's wildly immature and emotionally just not developed as like he's underdeveloped emotionally.

I don't know why, but it seems clear that he is but like demi like you know like the cake i don't care i don't care i'd like i i don't throw the cake i don't like she i didn't even make the cake even if she made the cake i don't think debbie would care i mean yeah it was straight out the duncan hines box um but she like did she did it because she wanted mar to throw it in the fire, probably. Yeah, of course. There's a cake and a fire. We all know what's going to happen.

Yeah. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Please. By this time in a paradise night, how drunk is everyone? Well, you have the drinking rule now, which is the two drink minimum. Two drink minimum? Two drink maximum per hour. Excuse me. I always get that screwed up. two drink minimum two maximum per hour excuse me i always get screwed up okay two drink maximum per hour i i've heard that still some of them try to game

game the system okay that i think it's on a just a regular between seven and eight eight nine so you between the hours of seven and eight you get drinks. So it doesn't matter if you drink them at the bottom half of the hour or the top half of the hour. I see. So I've heard that they... 7.45 to 8.15. 7.45 to 8.15, four drinks. Wow. Okay.

I've heard that there's some gamesmanship going on. Okay. I can't confirm. No, we're not here to cast depending on who you know like demi not a particularly large person and i don't and i don't know who's enforcing eating either if you drink on an empty stomach it's gonna like there's things you can do to manipulate how alcohol affects you yeah we know that aaron's fine with his six eggs and ham and bacon. Six eggs. It wasn't the six eggs for me. I have no problem with six eggs.

I'm a five egg guy myself sometimes. It's the ham and bacon that it was problematic for me. It's both pork. Yeah. So ham is just a worse version of bacon. That's true. Why? That's very true.

Why the ham? Yeah. Go bacon sausage if you're going to do that. Yeah, I don't.. Why? That's very true. Why the ham? Yeah. Go bacon sausage if you're going to do that. Yeah, I don't. Why ham? It's just salt. I don't know.

Yeah, okay. So it's just, I ask because some of these emotional reactions can be chalked up to sugary drinks. You know what I mean?

And I'm just, I'm always wondering like just how drunk people are there there was a moment with aaron there was an interview with aaron where i was like aaron is fully hammered right now i i because that six eggs is not gonna that is not the carbohydrate as much as you base that you need i i think it could be that but i also think there's an element of they all want to be on tv i think the show is benefiting like never before from what it means to be a social media influencer and have a following. The value in that has never been more obvious.

The rise in TikTok and you have legit the youth of America not wanting to be astronauts and musicians and TV stars anymore. They want to be YouTube stars and influencers. And you're seeing that firsthand. Like it's not a, Oh, it'd be cool to have a following whether they actually benefit from it or not do they become a fan favorite or not it's still obvious what the value of that is and i think you're just seeing people truly wanting to insert themselves in drama okay so what then would be like mari's brand what's she going i don't think again i think they're playing checkers not chess and i don't know if there's a lot of logical thought and what is going to look good or not. I just think there's a, yeah, I'm in. Fuck it.

Okay. Like, there's a camera there and I can either sit here in the background and drink and not talk. Or I can go like Chasen and awkwardly, like, why is Chasenasen like whatever you think about carl just like you can't if you're a guy in any way who's worried threatened or insecure about carl that's a red flag on your part if carl is talking to your girl as long as she's okay as long as she's safe let him burn his bridges's safe, let him burn his bridges, man. Yeah, Carl's like Mr. Give Back Your Girl, not Mr. Steal Your Girl.

If you're in a fight with your girlfriend and you feel like she's not appreciating you, let her talk to someone like Carl. You know what I'm saying? Let her spend 45 minutes with Carl because you will look amazing. But Chasen isn't either smart enough or confident in himself or just wants to be on TV that he will just stand there

when he has every reason to just be confident in the day he just had with Deandra. And instead, he's just weird about it. My question is, what was the worst gift between the two? Was it the wrap that Riley gave to Marissa or the necklace that Chasen gave to Deandra? Oh, boy. Dave? Well, a wrap has uses, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So I go bracelet or necklace or whatever the fuck it was. I think the bracelet was worse because I do think Carl. Oh, I wasn't. I was saying the rap song that Riley wrote to Marissa versus the necklace. Oh, my God. I forgot about the rap.

R-A-P rap. I thought you meant here like April Pashmina. I think Riley is a better lawyer. I would have taken the Pashmina, correct. I think Riley is a better lawyer than he is a rapper. The rapping was. The rapping was. Don't you think Carl's bracelet had a little bit of thought put into it, at least?

Well, that's the problem. You know, he tried. I know, but like that necklace, like where'd that come from? I'm pretty sure. And I mean, my guess is that Chase didn't bring that thing. My guess is like they went into town and bought a $5. A production assistant was given 20 bucks in the instructions to get the gold by. The most trashiest thing you've seen.

And there's a town? Yeah, they're in Celulita. You can get to a town? It's like right there. Yeah. Can you get to the town when you're there? The cast can't. Okay.

You're trapped in paradise yeah but like in a pre-covid world you had they had we had dates in town the town's thriving i was literally there for a wedding while they were filming and really town yeah okay coincidence my cousins but did you did you pop by did you pop by no i did not no but yeah so i'm pretty sure production assistant went and grabbed the raunches and said, Jason, if you want to give her a gift because, you know, your competition gave her a gift. And, you know, Jason, you know, might not be bright enough to be like, yeah, I probably don't need that. I'm good.

Probably don't need to give her this. Yeah. Because, yeah, it probably was a $5 raunchy plastic. I don't know what it was. I mean, who knows? But... It's from Claire's. It's from Mexican Claire's. it probably was a five dollar raunchy plastic i don't know what i mean who knows but uh claire's it's from mexican class just gave carl credit for like thinking in advance the little charms had little meanings like no i really can't regardless of what it was it was like the only thing that carl's ever done that kind of made carl not seem so horrible no i i'll tell you what the

only thing Carl, I was literally watching it when Deandra was breaking up with Carl and said, I'm going to give this back. And while I'm a big believer in not deserving a pat on the back for doing like what you should do, and that is to not be a dick

when someone brings up with you and not be petty. Yeah, you can express hurt and anger, but he handled it like a gentleman and i was literally watching it saying you know what i've been hard on carl but i want to acknowledge that like well he all he did was the right thing i'm at least going to acknowledge it and then 30 seconds later carl shits on that and goes, fuck it. Nope. I'm going to start a fight with Jason. Yeah.

For no reason. Like what problem? Like Jason didn't do anything wrong. It's like, it's paradise. He gave her a necklace. He has the right to talk to Deandra. Like what? She didn't pick you.

And like you, you just got petty and you just wanted to be on TV and it completely. Yeah. So I know I don't give Carl any credit because what I've realized is Carl and I guess good TV. You got to give Carl credit. He is good TV because people who are fun to hate are good TV and Carl is fun to hate and he falls on the sword, I guess, so to speak. So I'll give him credit for that, but not for anything else.

When are we going to get to the fucking romper? I know it's not a romper. I know it's separates. It's a two piece. I know that it would be a romp him if it were a romper. But yeah, he definitely packed that and wore it. You wore it. And modeled it.

What do you think? What do you think of Connor? We think Connor's probably decent in life, but we're not rooting for Connor in this room. I bet he is a very nice guy, but he gives

a strong level one improv class energy. You know, when the ukulele came out, it was like, yeah, yeah, that's, he like, his energy manifests a ukulele, you know? He's just, I'm sure he's lovely, I'm sure he's lovely, but he's just trying a tiny bit too hard, you know?

And then in the bit when he was like, when he was like, you know, just let me play my songs, it makes me happy. It's like, no one's saying you can't play your songs, but you are monopolizing everyone's attention for you to play your songs. For you to play your songs. Yeah.

Also, if it makes you happy, why do you look so fucking sad all the time? Yes. Thank you, Sheryl Crow. It's like, get a new coping mechanism, my guy. Yeah, it's crazy. And at the end, not to jump ahead, but when he doesyl Crow. It's like, get a new coping mechanism, my guy. Yeah, it's crazy. And at the end, not to jump ahead, but when he does go home and he's very sad

and he's like, oh, I wanted someone to like me, it's like, we saw the ukulele. You know, it's like no one who doesn't want to be liked by the entire world has ever bought a ukulele. Yeah, we know. That is, yeah, a romper and a ukulele is the international sign for please like me. But why, I don't understand.

It's like, why did he point out that it is in fact douchey when you constantly, I wish I could play the guitar. I wish I could sing. Like, he's incredibly talented. Very. And I wish I could do that. And if I could, it would be fun once in a while, once in a great while, to like bust it out because other people are like

hey man and even though you really want to even though you're inside secretly hoping people are like why don't you play a song and then you can pretend to like you know ross geller be like no no okay fine you know you're like yeah listen i deep down i think we all wish we could do that but like connor just no fucking chill he even acknowledges that it's douchey and then continues to just play the guitar for just sent just Senia like just just Senia is not responding no to a ukulele at all like I don't it's don't yeah it's just it's a it's tough energy To pivot to people who got a lot of attention, Becca. What do we think about that?

Oh yeah, Becca's there. Yeah. Bachelorette Becca. They gave her the appropriate like goddess energy. Like it's a tactical move on the show. It's a big get to get someone who was a former lead to come on the show. And they let her come in at night, which was so swanky. That's very swanky.

With the rose, like on the rose ceremony. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's a big get for them to get a lead in future seasons. Like, you know, it's like anything else. Once a precedent is set, you know, up until this point, I know they've had conversations with leads in the past of trying to get them to come on.

There's always this like, ah, but I was the bachelor or I was the bachelorette or et etc but now you got one and now and as long as that looks good and next season is you know you know hannah brown like she's you know kind of like give it a couple years right now she thinks she's too good for the show but like you know after her incident a while back things are probably what have what have we've been seeing i don't know thinks she's too good for the show but like you know after her incident a while back things are probably what have what have we've been seeing i don't know maybe she's doing things behind the scenes we don't know i'm not really sure i haven't paid much attention and maybe she'll never go yeah but now you have one precedent has been set things get a little slow for you and

you're just like well i don't know becca did it. She was well-liked. People liked her for it. So I think, and Becca's great, right? She's unproblematic and beautiful and nice and she's gonna look good either way. But I think they are going out of their way and giving her the treatment that one would expect your former lead to get so that if other leads wanna come down and,

and cause it's all, it really is as a promotable moment. Like it doesn't matter if Becca ends up being good TV. It doesn't really matter if Becca finds love. The fact that she came and we tuned in for that is all that. It got you to turn it on and that's really what it's about. And who might we see again? If you were to look into your crystal ball at next year's

paradise uh peter weber okay uh matt james maybe not yeah no he seems finished i think he's done and he's you know in a relationship we'll see you know hannah brown's a reach but i i could see a world okay i could see it okay i could see it right now she would never consider it colton yeah i mean yeah i could smoke bros and colton i could see colton colton can do better than a than a chris and a chase in them i could see i could see colton that's possible. Who else? Not Ari. Not me. Not you. Not what other bachelorettes? Katie.

100%. If Katie and Blake don't work out, and who knows? Like, I didn't, you know, no judgment. My relationship didn't work out. A lot of relationships don't work out. Not rooting against them. Right.

I could see Katie definitely going back if given the opportunity. Gotcha. Shall we get into Tia's arrival and her date? Absolutely. Yes, except that we haven't really talked about Joe and Serena. Yeah, let's talk about Joe and Serena.

I want to give Joe and Serena props. I really, like, I just don't like the dates. I find it to be the most boring part. Yeah. But I really enjoyed their conversation. I find it to be the most boring part. Yeah. But I really enjoyed their conversation. I found it to be nice and endearing. Joe is just incredibly authentic and an example of you just don't worry about TV and you just say what you're feeling. Yeah.

And it's real. It'll look good. Yeah. real it'll look good yeah i feel like joe has like depth like untold depth to him that he has never been asked to like look into you know what i mean yeah he's he seems like like every time he says something it's like that's actually really insightful but but then he like smiles and like undoes it you know what i mean like he Like he's somebody who I think has been able to coast by on looks and on like being an affable Chicago guy. And he's, I would assume,

I have a lot of Joes in my life. And a lot of these guys are like surrounded by people who are just like them. So that if they are, if they do have like an extra bit of wisdom or depth to them, they never actually like look at it because that's kind of gay or whatever so they're just sort of they're just kind of like normal bro guys uh but i think i

don't know i think that there is there's like a deeper level to that guy now would i think that if he weren't unbelievably hot i don't know you know what i mean like i i root for him and i think like oh there's a lot there but if he were you know 10 less handsome i might just be like no i i agree with you i think joe's one of the few people on the show where the show actually overall is net positive for their like emotional development yes right and i think because joe came in as an older person who didn't tap into some of these kind of emotions and feelings and and and things like then the show will get you to tap into those things yeah and he came in with a heightened sense of emotional maturity because maybe it's just because he's older

it was a kind of a perfect combination for joe you got to think about joe's arc you know joe went home night one it was grocery store joe and the reason why joe went home night one and joe talked about this on the podcast here is because he couldn't talk. He just was like, he literally froze and the like Joe and the producer like, we just can't use this. Yeah. He just stood there. Yeah.

And so and now he's kind of found himself found his voice is he was so self conscious. He was this like, he was the Chicago guy, as you said, who didn't want his friends to think he was gay self-conscious he was this like he was the chicago guy as you said who didn't want his friends to think he was gay yeah because he was on a you know yeah reality show talking about his feelings right and now he's you know had a nice relationship with kendall he's matured and now he's able to talk about it yeah and it's coming across as really authentic and incredibly charming and then and really a delight to watch the point where like it wasn't very exciting but i i was like i literally said when i was watching it was gonna be boring and then found myself being like really enjoying the conversation between the two yeah they seem like

nice people yeah i just feel like he um needs to be challenged a little bit and this somehow has been that challenge for him him blowing a little raspberry because he didn't know how to cry on television a couple of weeks ago broke my heart yeah that was one of the top 10 tv moments of all time it's great he's incredible tia shows up i mean again this speaks to we didn't have paradise last summer it's just you forget yeah about all these stars in bachelor nation like tia is a star in Bachelor Nation. She was considered by many to be a potential bachelorette. Right.

Do you think her watching her bestie Raven now be happily married, have all those beautiful wedding photos, she was like, got to get on the beach? I have no idea. I mean, if you have a job that allows you to go to paradise and i don't know what tia does for a living and the show like why wouldn't you go it's super it's a fun time so i don't fault like i'm assuming it was more because she could yeah and nobody has to report to an office right now yeah so i don't know if it has anything

to do with raven again i just the whole idea that people are showing up on paradise because they can't find love anywhere else is come on no one like everyone's there it's paradise it's fun everyone's there to be on the tv show i even think joe like i the different like joe you know joe's very clear he's like i don't need to be here. And I believe that, right? Like he doesn't need to be there, but he's still there because it's fun. And he can, again, he can benefit from being on a TV show. And while he is there, be focused on trying to find a relationship. But I don't think, you know, Joe's not like I came here because I need to find love and

I don't know how to find it. You know, it's just more and it's the fact that joe can still go there still want to be on tv but have no problem going home at any point he's not afraid to go home it's the biggest difference between joe joe and kenny don't seem to be afraid to go home. Brendan wants to be there, you know, dying to stay, dying to stay. And it bothers me that he got to.

Yeah. Because he's, he just wants to get the Piper and he was sloppy in his execution, you know, not hot. Like, and that's the thing. It's the line.

Like just any, uh, and Chris, I don't know if that's just going to be an internet thing that we discovered or, or do, does it get revealed? Like, Yesenia and Chris. I don't know if that's just going to be an internet thing that we discovered, or does it get revealed? My guess is it's going to get talked about, because everyone tries to keep secrets,

and no one can keep secrets in Bachelor Nation. They're all talking. They're all gossiping. Well, it's also all there. It's on the internet. It's there. You can see it. You can see where they were. A thing I really noticed uh

around the time of tia coming in is that the producers of this show are trying to figure out how to address the colton situation you know what i mean because it's like because people make some little jokes about it and it's like a couple of them are like i don't i don't know about that you know like the like the only thing worse than her gaydar is her shorts or whatever. It's just like there's just some dumb jokes. Tia had like a nice comment that was sort of sweet. But it was like they were trying to figure out how to make jokes about it without being homophobic. And I could see the strain.

Yeah. Don't you see the date card? Wasn't the date card like love at the end of the rainbow waiting a joke maybe maybe i feel like they were trying to do something there yeah the fact that they were saying there's oh they definitely were at the end of the rainbow yeah was an insinuation to me yeah they definitely were yeah to start monday with two sort of ambiguous kind of guys and then end it with the love of the end of the rainbow and a whole bunch of Colton talk

and for this to be the one with the host who is an out gay man it was like it seemed like there were like pieces they were putting in place that nobody ever played you know yeah it's like when she was when they were naked

yes remember yes she made the comment that he was looking at the other guy and she was like please don't look at that other guy yes because the last guy i dated was gay yes i didn't even miss that to nail the tone is is difficult and i could i could just see the effort that they were trying to nail the tone. Yeah. Yeah. And how'd they do? I don't pick up on. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Not, you know. I feel like it was like gay jokes for straight people. Yeah. I mean, it was like. Like it wasn't very like, I don't know. It was gay jokes for ABC level. It was very clever.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was the much as they can get away with for ABC Disney. Sure. Yeah. I don't. I don't know.

Aaron and Thomas fight. Yes. they can get away with for abc disney sure yeah i don't i don't know aaron and and thomas fight yes it's just gotten to the point where with eggs and ham i i just enrage sorry what is thomas he's just a cornball who says some dumb shit he's cheesy yeah if he didn't look the way he did and one of them is tall he wouldn't be such a threat. And I think most people, if Thomas looked like Connor B, we would just dismiss Thomas as a guy who just is weird and says dumb things. looks like thomas uh and says dumb things yes we find it to be a threat or right narcissistic or you know whatever yeah and he has this baggage from his season of being you know of being sneaky or or you know trying to be the bachelor or whatever he's just but it's just kind of a handsome insincere guy yeah that's not illegal. No. Yeah.

I don't know if I want to be friends with him, but like, just fine. Yeah. I don't know what Aaron, like he's mad at everybody for not being a specific kind of way, but I don't know what it is that he's, I don't know what the yardstick is that he's holding everybody to, you know? Neither do I. But he's just always mad it's there's a certain type of of contestant on this show that and it's always it from my experience it seems to be men and men that on their respective bachelorette season you know is not like top five or six they're that middle

of the pack they bro it up with the other guys you know there are enough of TV where they you know Trey's good TV because he's passionate about every topic and he he narrates it so there's value there but there's a certain type of guy that goes on and they just immediately they watch the show they've been fans of the show

and they get on set so to speak and immediately morph in to the bachelor tropes of like you you see and it's weird i've seen other people but like bro like they they are acting exactly how they think they should act and it's just right reasons bullshit and it's just like can i cut it's just it's like they walk they're watching an snl skit you you know, and they're, and they, that's how, that's what they think they should do. So that's what they do. And I guess, whatever, I just find it hysterical because those are the people in reality are the most disingenuous, you know, like those are the

people who aren't really there for relationships who are just, who just know to be gentlemanly because they're not interrupting people and they just focus on everyone else but themselves and no one really likes them you know and when i mean by likes them i mean people of the either opposite sex or whoever they're you know romantically it's just a bro-y situation and like aaron James, Trey. Props to Trey for leaving. I feel like do Trey has, the slut shaming was not cool,

but I think Trey does have a pure heart and I give him a lot of credit for leaving on his own. Yeah, that did seem a little unmotivated to me. Why did he leave? I'm guessing because I think he felt like, I think he's earnest. I think despite getting sucked up into the bromance of it all, I think he was actually sincere and having this be a platform, not a platform, but like an opportunity for him to meet someone

or romantically connect. And I think he realized that wasn't happening and i think he almost it sounds it seemed to me like he almost was he like woke up and thought this is like i'm is i'm inserting myself in a lot of stuff i'm not having romantic relationships yeah i think i should go is my that's how it came i mean i don't i don't if there were other things but i i think it's i want i want to think it's a sincere my time like i i a sincere observation on his own part to realize that he wasn't there for the right reasons anymore and so he opted to leave right Because he was more involved in the drama.

And once he realized that there was nothing romantic with Tajwan or anyone else, he's like, it's time for me to go. Okay. That's wise, I suppose. And if that's the case, I give him a lot of credit for that. As we close up,

what did we, like the naked date? Super weird. I didn't really know why, or is it just something for us to make us feel uncomfortable? Yeah. Because it did Super weird. I didn't really know why. Or is it just something for us to make us feel uncomfortable? Yeah. Because it did. Yeah, I didn't love it.

I didn't, the China pot talk, I didn't really fully understand. Yeah, is that a southern thing? I don't, yeah. I don't, I'm seeing labia now and I read my Bible this morning. Okay. That's not a contradiction. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's fine.

I agree. Why? Why is the Bible? It then takes our top off. Yeah. Yeah. Fine. And just goes with it anyway.

That's an excellent point though, Dave. Thank you. Why is the penis and vagina in Bible a contradiction? Yeah, it was, I didn't get that. Oh, a thing I really enjoyed uh was after tajuan left um and before people kind of figured out that she had gone at the rose ceremony they had to like remove a rose right because she was not there to give it and i i think did they have to have like a union guy come and remove no that's the what's's the, what's his name? Bill or whatever his name is.

What's the guy who always comes in and helps out? The older gentleman, Nick. Oh, I don't know. Older? Huh? The guy who brought- Pauly? Pauly.

Wasn't that Pauly? I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. I just saw someone who I hadn't seen come and do it. And I was like, I wonder if this is like a union thing. Because this is a prop. The best part about the Tejuan exit was that she took a blanket with her who was always hot all the time that she gets in the car and wraps herself well i'm telling you like that's hypothermia like you gotta you gotta like conserve yeah it's like at

um it's like why they wrap you in foil at the end of a marathon you gotta like you gotta regulate your body heat yeah she was going from extreme heat to like an air-conditioned escalade and weren't we just saying that she thought it was a sprint not a marathon that's why she was so hot she got done sprinting yeah she needed she needed yeah put her in that foil but yeah there was a lot of moving pieces during that rose ceremony there was because at one point you're like there are four guys going home then trey leaves you're like oh there's only three guys going home but then tajwan immediately leaves back to like four goes and then yeah but becca shows up there was just a lot of like we don't even know how many people were going home yeah we kind of fought it was just like a lot of

just a lot a lot going on a lot going on and and it was like feels like a host would be useful in this moment but maybe not maybe not maybe not anyway oh kenny sounds exactly like joe so when i hear a voiceover from kenny i always think it's joe and then i see kenny and i get disappointed huh i didn't i didn't uh pick pick up on that he He has a faint Midwestern accent. It's just, there's a hint of Joe. And he looks like every person who's ever been in any boy band all put together. He looks like all, every one of 98 Degrees and like two each of. 98 Degrees especially.

Yeah. Yeah. two each of 98 degrees especially yeah yeah because he's he's like he's the the like the bench press boy band guy i i'm not the little young boy band guy he's like that he's the kevin speaking of kenny when he's talking to tia i loved tia's like explaining to him like she's tia's asking him a lot of questions about like what he's been up to yeah and she's like you know

have you been in the boomer room Kenny's like yeah and then Tia like has to explain to Kenny she's like well like that might make women like mad

if you like sleep with them and then go on a date with someone else the next day and Kenny's Kenny almost like like almost charmingly kind of kind of almost like like almost charmingly kind of like really wow oh yeah i've never i guess so i know you know like he just

it's so like he almost he kind of pulls it off or he's like yeah oh i just i mean mean, I talked to her, so I didn't lie. And he really does, I mean, so far, no one's really up in arms about Kenny being a fuck boy. Sure. And he's the only one fucking right now. What he is. Oh, I meant to ask you this. Okay. Is in Paradise, is there ever a moment of like um two people being like i

actually don't care about this at all like i'm i'm pretending that i'm you know that i'm into so and so or whatever but i actually don't care like is there are people who are involved whose heart isn't in it and they're just kind of trying to be on tv do they are they ever like honest with one another about it i i don't know in my experience i think it's it's not really that i think it's one of two people it's the overwhelming majority that desperately want to be on tv and are overly sincere and you know the brand like kind of everyone just everyone's just afraid to be honest everyone's afraid to like you know to name it what it is it's paradise we're all talking outside of the show all the people pretending they don't know each other you know brendan is getting caught but like everyone's probably guilty of it and then you have a few

people like demi and joe and and I guess Kenny a little bit who are just like, I don't care to the point where like, if I go home, like whatever, and I'm going to be here and I'm going to date and I'm going to go after people I want to, uh, to be interested in. And if not, I'll, I'll go home. You know, you, we you we have to we i think we often forget that every week there's new people coming in right right so like uh for example ivan getting a rose like we have no reason to think that deandra gave ivan the rose because she's like sincerely into him but it's more like well i don't want to chasen's weird yeah i don't like carl's weird weird i just like ivan as a person that's hayley gave me the rose back in the day like i wasn't like when i showed

up when we talked about this a lot i just didn't i wasn't afraid to go home i'm like yeah i'll go on your show i'm gonna have fun i knew i was interested in jen i knew they weren't going to bring her right away i just told everyone i was there for jen i didn't care and if i got sent home before she showed up so be it i was pretty confident that they would figure it out but i no one promised me anything no one geared guaranteed me anything i don't know okay i don't get a rose i don't get a rose okay and there are a handful of people who can be sincere about the relationships and sincere can include i'm not really into anyone yeah but whether you see that on tv or whether they air it because they never aired me saying that right but i'm just

like privately is there privately i think they're just like yeah i don't this me joe and just joe would be like i don't know i just don't care like if serena p went out with someone else he would just be like yeah okay all right like maybe i'll stick around, but I'm not going to pretend to like someone. Okay. And in my experience is one of the two. I gotcha. Okay. You know, but now we have Kendall.

How do you, how do we see this going? She looks fantastic. She looks great. I think, I think Kendall is going to regret it. Yeah. Because I think Kendall is really there for Joe, except that Joe and Kendall have a valid reason for breaking up. For all the talk about,

why don't you just date outside of the show? Like, I think that's silly. But Kendall and Joe have a, like they dated for two years. It's a real relationship. It's a, it didn't work out, but like as a success story for the franchise. And then like, there's a real love there and they had a nice relationship and two nice people and they for valid reasons sad reasons but valid reasons chose to go their separate ways

right and so no one's arguing that there might be some feelings there a mutual respect but it doesn't change so unless Kendall shows up and and next Monday morning after she calls him butthead which I thought was kind of weird she just says I heard you're coming it made me realize obviously you know I said feelings for you my bags are packed I'm ready to move let's do it okay short of that I don't see the point. Yeah. Except to just drive him to the emotional breakdown.

Yeah. Other than to fuck with herself. Yeah. And to fuck with Joe. And then if she like, you know, maybe she'll go out and date other people, but she really, she's there for Joe. I think that's, and that's fine.

And I think that's clear. That's what she, in her heart, that's what she wants wants but i don't think she thought it through because i don't think she's prepared to move and then she'll like joe will reject her is my guess yeah because joe is a mature guy who knows like joe is very clear i this is why i'm not gonna no i'm not like i like yeah i'll have feelings for you but you're not willing to move and I'm not willing to move. And maybe, maybe Serena is willing to move. And so she'll stick around and awkwardly try to date other people and then like unceremoniously leave. Okay. Did I tell you about seeing Joe and Kendall? No. In West Hollywood. Okay. Okay. I'm driving eastbound. No, westbound on Santa Monica Boulevard, walking eastbound, Joe and Kendall.

This is probably a year and a half ago. And I'm obsessed with Joe, right? I pulled a fucking fast and furious maneuver. You turned it in the middle of a busy Santa Monica Boulevard, okay? Like a full Vin Diesel moment. You turned, drove way past them and parked at a meter, which I was then like playing with the meter, like paying at it for a really long time

until they could walk past. They were just schlepping along with iced coffees. I was like, I need to know what they're talking about. They were talking about their iced coffees. And I got to listen to a snippet of conversation and it made my day. Got to see them in real life. I've been dying to meet him someday it'll happen but we did once have a brief interaction that he knows

nothing about and i broke a lot of traffic laws that's a very charming story to end and they they make a cute couple which is sad that it ended they listen if I can't have him. I just want him to be happy. Dave, as always. Nick. Thank you so much for coming. My God, a pleasure, as always. Always a pleasure. Please come back for Michelle's season.

Oh my God, yeah. When does that start? Right after Paradise Ends, I think. Oh my God, we don't get a break. Who do you want to see be the Bachelor? Good question. You've got intel, I'm sure i i really don't really i really i my guess is as good as anyone's at this point is greg too tainted uh remains to be seen okay um i think he's clearly being considered but i don't know if

there's other okay things they're considering Depending on what happens. Joe himself. It's not outside of the realm of possibility. I'd really like to see Joe. I think Joe, I just need a more mature guy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's going to happen though. As always, Dave, thank you. I appreciate it.

Let the people know where they can find you. I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Dave Holmes. Follow Dave. He's a great follower. Doing a lot of great things he has podcasts of his own thanks for listening guys we're back tomorrow with the wonderful Tyler Merritt

you do not want to miss that back next week next Wednesday with Michael a lot of unanswered burning questions and maybe maybe there'll be a bachelor announcement with my okay who knows either way I think we'll get a Bachelor announcement. I don't know. Maybe. Okay. Who knows?

Either way, I think we'll get a lot of updates from Michael and unanswered questions. So be sure to tune in. And as always, back on Monday with our Ask Nick episodes. Thanks for listening. We will see you back today, tomorrow, whenever. Bye. you