The Viall Files - E32 The Origin Story Of Chris Harrison

Episode Date: August 7, 2019

Host of The Bachelor and good friend Chris Harrison joins us in the studio today. Before he does, Nick addresses the accusations by Jed and the premiere of Bachelor in Paradise. Chris then opens up about his romance with Lauren Zima, he reveals how he ended up hosting the most romantic show on television, and he responds to a rumor about a wink. Then we answer a question from a fan that made us all gasp. Don’t be afraid to fail, go where the path is leading you, and DON’T BE A F*CKBOY! Keep a lookout for our new "Ask Nick" episodes dropping on Mondays starting 8/12. THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: PROACTIV: https://www.proactiv.com/nick BRUMATE: https://www.brumate.com CODE: VIALL ARTICLE: https://www.article.com/nick OPENFIT: Text VIALL to 303030 SHIPSTATION: https://www.shipstation.com CODE: VIALL Buy the “Do You Know Me” Game: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QQ3FJL6 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, exciting announcement. Vile Files is expanding to two episodes per week, starting August 12th. It's going to be amazing. Every Monday we're going to be doing the Q&A portion of our show. More questions with fans, more interesting topics, more relatable content, more conversations. It's going to be exciting.

Wednesdays are staying the same, minus the Q&A. Great guests, great topics, two episodes a week. We couldn't do it without you fans. We'll see you August 12th. I listened to the episode, and it really frustrated me in terms of the things that Jed said, and then going into this episode of Bachelor in Paradise,

and we have the Blake stuff, this whole, like like fuck boy mentality. And again, what's interesting, we talk a lot about on the show about being sex positive. We've had, we've talked about fuck boys with the call her daddy women. And listen, if you want, if guy or girl, if you want to have sex, have sex. Yeah. If you want to be in a relationship be in a relationship it all comes down to communication and upfront expectations and not saying one thing and doing another right

if you want to like be single and have a bunch of sex you don't get to hang out with someone and say well i don't want to listen i don't we're not dating we're not dating but oh by the way i have a family reunion next week and my parents would like they invited you and they would love you to go and by the way i love you and there's this trip coming up and like and you confuse the shit of that person but people do it all the time and dating there that's the problem that's how fuck boys or even fuck girls because you know women can do do it too. Men are more guilty of it, I would say. But like,

and also like the whole Jed stuff, I don't want to spend too much time on Jed anymore. But at the same time, like if I don't think there's many people, but all he has done since AFR is proven that he's not sorry. Right. His, his excuse has been first,

you know, he get called, he get called out on the breakup and he's kind of like, he looks annoyed. And his excuse has been first you know he get called he get called out on the breakup and he's kind of like he looks annoyed and his excuse was well i thought we were on the same page but apparently we weren't which is basically like saying i'm sorry i hurt you yes or i'm sorry you're hurt the worst kind of not not i'm sorry i hurt you jed's basically like well i'm sorry she's hurt and for that i'm sorry and then he goes on AFR and he's just like hoping that Hannah will forgive him. And he's like, I just will be, I'll do anything to be a better man for you.

So he's saying, I'm sorry. He's saying he needs to be a better man. And since then, he's gone on these interviews and done podcasts and completely backtracked his statement back to the, oh, well, listen, I thought we were on the same page. Now, Rachel did a good job playing bad cop. Allie, obviously, was the good cop here, and I didn't necessarily agree with things that necessarily Allie was saying, but the one question they both missed is, fine, Jed's like, all right, well, I thought we were on the same page. You know, I was wrong, and that I apologize. Okay, really?

Here's the one question they didn't ask. Okay, Jed, well, you've confirmed that you've said, I love you to her. You confirmed that you went on Jed, well, you've confirmed that you've said, I love you to her. You confirmed that you went on trips with her. You've confirmed that you had sex with her the night before you went on the show. You've confirmed that. Give us some examples, maybe just one, of what you've done or said to her

that would make you believe that you two would be on the same page. Right. Give us one, because there's none other than saying well we talked about all the possibilities no you mind fucked her into thinking that this was for the show and you you try to hedge your bet by saying anything can happen but then you confused her by saying i love you and then jet had this excuse about it it's like, oh, no one's going to believe me. But the text about meet me at the dock. Guys, just so you know, that wasn't a real dock.

It was a metaphor for some sort of meditation thing. And then Allie and Rachel were like, oh, why don't you say this? I'm listening being like, what the fuck difference does that make? Did anyone in the world think this was an actual dock? That this Haley girl was going to like just be standing there for two months and just fucking camping out while Jed's doing whatever and that we got off the show? Of course it was a metaphorical doc. It also makes it 10 times worse.

It's like the whole idea he's going on this trip and it's saying like, it could dock clouds, meet me in the clouds, whatever. He's basically saying when I'm gone, in your dock clouds, meet me in the clouds, whatever. He's basically saying, when I'm gone, in your mind, imagine us together in this place. Yeah, spiritually. Whatever. It's a Machiavellian manipulative tactic that people do, and it's fucked up. And that doesn't make it better. It makes it worse. I'm just, you know, these upfront expectations that when people are dating or they're hanging out, people often they they have this excuse.

Well, I don't want to hurt their feelings and I don't want to make them mad. And so they it's easier for them to just play house and pretend to do the things that they want to do. I have been in dating relations. I've been dating people. Yeah, this is what I'm wondering. Have you ever been a fuck boy, Nick? No, I mean, again, we've talked about this in past episodes where like, you know, I'll ask the question, you know, to call her daddy girls like, well, do you think what I'm wondering. Have you ever been a fuck boy, Nick? No, I mean, again, we've talked about this in past episodes where like, you know, I'll ask the question, you know, to call her daddy girls like, well, do you think what I'm doing

is a fuck boy? And I don't, I never thought it was. I went, if I've been single, do I sometimes date girls and we are sexually intimate? Yeah, sure. But again, what I'm saying is I have dated people in the past where there's been a situation where like, for one example, I did this girl and she lived across the country. Yeah.

And I was like, listen, I do like you. Let's get to know each other. And we have, we were intimate. Yeah. But like,

we're not dating. Cause I don't know where I don't, not there yet. Right. So we would hang out and we would talk and she would constantly get frustrated at me because I wasn't like opening up emotional. I wasn't willing to visit her. I wasn't willing to visit her, I wasn't willing to do all these things that a boyfriend would do, but I was saying,

we're not boyfriend girlfriend, so I'm not going to act like your boyfriend. But you're talking every day? We were talking, but like I was trying to get to know her to get to that point. She would say things like, well, listen, I think if two people care about each other enough, the long distance relationship wouldn't matter.

And I would say, well, to be honest, I'm not there yet with you to make that commitment. Again, she didn't like hearing that. And at the risk, and she was mad at me and she would be frustrated at me. But I wasn't doing, I wasn't confusing her with my actions and words. And at that point, we need to say,

okay, then this relationship should be over because it's not what I want. Exactly. The reason why I'm so critical of Jet and so in defense to Peter is because it's like Peter is literally the example of what you should do. Breakups are messy. Sometimes when people break up, feelings are hurt.

And people will name call and say, oh, he sucked or she sucked just because their feelings. And that sucks. And I am sorry. But like Peter, whether even if he did it to go on the show, gave this girl an opportunity to move on by ending the relationship. And there's no confusion whether they were dating or not. He ended it and she did move on.

She's got like apparently dating some other guy now. Yay, good for her. Yeah, great for her. But what I'm saying is like relationships can be messy, but like just give someone an opportunity to be mad at you, to feel like their feelings were hurt because you didn't want to be the asshole.

Don't be the guy or the girl who like doesn't, they're just always trying, they're trying to get everyone not to be mad at them. And so they, but they want their freedom. They want to, they don't want to be in a committed relationship and all these people who it's like,

it's just a weakness thing. But don't you think it's in today's in dating today, men think if, as long as I don't say it's exclusive and don't call her my girlfriend, it's all free. No, it's not. Well, that's the problem. Yes. Yes.

So many people do that. And again, men and women are both guilty. Men are more guilty of it, I would say. I mean, I don't have any stats. Right. It just- It feels like that. It feels like that.

No, but listen, because men, the people who do that are weak. They're weak because they want to, listen, criticism like when you know i'm i'm very known for my dating life and right now i kind of joke about it and being single right why are you and like why are you still single i can't believe you're single and it's implied as if like there might be something wrong with me or just anyone that's like single connotation. We talked about this and listen, it's not that easy. And sometimes would it be nice to have a friend on Sunday night to like watch movies with and go to flea markets with, and that we were doing all the things that like, that have a side piece, so to speak. Sure. But I don't. And sometimes you have to make those

hard decisions. There's a lot of people who do that. They want the comfort of having the person to like, when they're lonely and bored, they can call and come over and they'll be intimate with and they'll even have someone to, you know, I'm tired of going to weddings by myself, but you know what I'm not going to do? I'm not going to invite some girl

I've been like hanging out with that I don't want to date that maybe I've slept with a few times and maybe I kind of sense that she'd be into me if I was into her. I'm not going to invite her to a fucking wedding. Why? Because that's going to lead her on. That's going to confuse her. That's going to make her think that maybe there's something there. I'm not going to invite her to take a trip together because that's what fucking couples do. Right. Right. And so like

again, dating can be confusing and hard. And sometimes when you don't give the person what they want and you don't meet their expectations, they'll be mad at you yeah but at least you're being up front and honest yes you're not confusing them and hedging their bed yeah and fucking jed is this he's not fucking sorry at all he's full of excuses and this latest latest i saw some articles saying well she wasn't mike now she's like he's like not even sorry if she wasn't my girlfriend i would never do that well because to your point he was just like, As long as she's not my girlfriend. As long as we never defined it, it's fine.

Meanwhile, everything he's doing and saying is making her believe that there's something there. What about Tyler? Lots of news this week with him. There's pictures of him with Hannah and then a couple days later with Gigi. I mean, in terms of maybe like, this is the first time Tyler's not the notebook guy.

Listen, I- He's not the notebook guy. He's not the notebook guy. Why? I mean, listen, the whole, like Hannah asked him out for a drink. The pictures, I don't know what to make of it. I'll say this much about the pictures

we saw the next morning. If there was no hug, there was no kiss and paparazzis will capture any moment that happens. And I next morning if there was no hug there was no kiss and paparazzis will capture any moment that happens and i'm certain if there was a hug and a kiss there would be photos of that oh that's interesting i didn't think of that that's a safe assumption also like the fact that maybe the episode hannah made some remarks at this week about they really did talk and i would believe that too, is that like, these are two right now,

very high profile people. Yeah. Hard to do that in public. So it would make sense that Tyler would go to Hannah's and they would talk through the night and catch up, you know? And also if Gigi Hadid wants to go on a date with you, as a single person, you go on a date.

Really? You think you would a hundred would 100 i guess he's not gonna be the bachelor anymore i think it's safe to say that uh yes i will agree that this uh the stuff with hannah and the stuff with gg hadid pretty much eliminates tyler from being the bachelor yeah and probably dancing with the stars well he's under contract with the bachelor and dancing with the stars probably isn't an option. And there's behind the scenes there. It's not the seamless transition everyone thinks it is.

There would have to be some negotiations. I don't know why I feel disappointed, but I kind of wanted to believe love exists and that he really loved Hannah. I think he really respected Hannah and cared for Hannah. I mean, yeah, Hannah picked Jed. And then Hannah had all this drama with Jed and Jed goes on the show and everyone falls in love with him. And I'm not, I don't fault Hannah

for asking him out for drinks, but like Jed has the right to say, listen, you know, I had feelings. Tyler had the right to say, I had feelings for you, but I mean, hey, I don't necessarily want to dive back into a, you know. Yeah, it was pretty quick after that. Anyway.

Also, but keep in mind, Tyler's been like on lockdown for two and a half months. Right. Like not trying to get the secret out, not being able to date anyone. He's put his life on hold. So how much longer does Tyler need to wait to go and grab drinks with anyone, including Gigi Hadid?

You know, he's like, he's single. And just because Hannah asked him out for a drink doesn't mean Tyler has to say yes. And it doesn't make him an asshole for saying yes. Yeah. I mean, he is, as we joked, or I joke, he is just a guy. I know, I kept thinking about himoked or i joke he is just a guy no he is a great guy saying that but he is just a guy who who might not just you know because like i mean all jokes

is that tyler has become this almost folklore hero of like of course he's just gonna like be there waiting for you to like i know figure it out and then he will come and save you that's not tyler because no one is and that's fine but doesn't make him not any different or any less redeeming of a guy and any less genuine just because he doesn't want to be in a relationship with hannah i guess so anyways um but yeah so like let's i mean paradise it's it was basically the blake show and again like he was panicking i don't fault blake for like listen the problem with blake and just it's a little different than jed is again blake if you want to go on the bachelorette and then not have uh becca pick you and you want to have sex with everyone go for it i don't have a problem

doesn't make you a bad guy the problem with blake has been doing is blake had this edit and everyone loved blake and evan he was like the tyler last season not quite tyler status but like he was that version of you know like he's so sweet and genuine he should have been the bachelor he's just a guy looking for love and blah blah and it turns out he's a guy who also just wants to have a ton of sex i guess i don't fault him for that yeah the problem is is that he also wants to keep this image of i'm the great guy oh yeah him panicking about what everyone's gonna and having people lie and like asking kayla kaylin to lie to him and things like that that is not okay that when you do that it's that's when you devalue i have i totally get that kaylin like felt shitty

about the fact that blake's asking her to lie about the relationship and calling the experience a mistake. Because it's all about his image. Yeah. And he's not being respectful. If you want to have sex with Kaylin and you don't want to be in a relationship with her, you say that before. You say, like, listen, just so you know, this is where I'm at. But we don't know a lot of the details. But according to her, she goes.

They were hanging out, he disappeared. And he was DMing Hannah in bed with her. That's all like just dirty. Icky, icky. You know, that's gross and whatever.

As a single guy, I guess technically you can do that, right? Yeah, that's the thing, technically, yeah. But listen, like men and women both do that.

It's the lying, right? I mean, Blake even like weirdly even weirdly admitted that he told Kaylin that he hooked up with Christina the night before. Props for that. Again, just be honest. Just be upfront. But when you start asking people to lie for you, to me, that's why Blake looked bad.

It wasn't the fact he's been having this sex. I mean, that's kind of gross if he's going back to back yeah maybe like pick from different pools of women not all friends with each other to me that's a stupid and stupid yeah like if anything jed to see i mean uh blake just kind of seems dumb right like chris harrison says in this episode he's never experienced this before yeah and he got careless and reckless it's not as machiavellian as what jed seemed to have done right has done i i it sounds like it's only gonna get worse for blake and i hope he sees the light and i've met blake a couple times he seems like a nice enough guy but like this lying again that's the problem what blake is doing is the problem out there in the dating world where these guys are just like, just be upfront. Let the person get,

give them someone an opportunity to get mad at you in the moment for the thing that you don't want to give them. And then say no. Yeah. If you don't want to meet someone's expectations in a dating situation, give them an opportunity to get mad at you. They might get mad at you and they might say you're a dick or blah, blah, blah, but you are being honest with them and you have honesty on your side and you can be the guy who's like not emotionally available and whatever fine they can say things like you've changed or you're different fine but you are being up front and honest yeah it's the lying and again i will the jed going back to the jet part i would be willing to bet that if jed came clean to hannah the fantasy suite, goes in the fantasy suite and he's like,

Hannah, I just, I gotta be honest with you. Here's the situation. I'm totally wrong. I mean, honestly, I'm expecting you to break up with me, but I was leading this girl on. We were never technically dating, but fuck, man. I told her I loved her and whatever, and she's waiting for me.

And I don't know what to do because honestly, I truly love you. And I just need to come clean with you. Hannah, they would be together right now. But didn't he do that after he proposed? No, after he proposed, he told her little bits and pieces. He told her there was this girl he was hanging out with, but they weren't dating. He didn't say he was in love with her.

He didn't say he had sex with her the night before. He didn't say he was taking trips with her. And Hannah, her only reason in AFR of her saying why she's not gonna get back together with Jed was, I can't start a relationship with a liar. Right. And that's it.

He lied to her. He kept telling her a bunch of half-truths. If he totally came clean in the fantasy suite, I'd be willing to bet those two would be together right now.

Because think about Hannah. Like, Hannah has even admitted she loves a project. And the fact that like, and the fact that like, Jed comes clean and like, and then in that like and the fact that like jed comes clean and like and then in that moment hannah feels like she can trust jet because he fucked up before he met

her but he's told her everything and even on that podcast he's like oh i told i felt like i was telling her everything i've never told before but you didn't jed yeah you told her your version or whatever it's just a bunch of crap um goodbye jed we're done final thoughts jet dead had a problem with uh he's his criticism one thing just want to that i came after his family somehow right uh if jed thinks i came after his family because i suggested his uh his family would prefer him on american idol as opposed to the bachelorette i stand by that it's also hilarious doubling down also you're the only one who brought your family into this bullshit with your lies and deceit and uh jed was saying how like his family

reaction was just based off of confusion uh how many hometowns have there been in the history of the show right hundreds every family is a little confused about what this process is have we ever seen a reaction like this before? No. Okay. So, anyways. He's no lawyer, but he's sure acting like one. Yeah, that's what I have to say about that. Just be honest, people. Just be upfront.

Paradise, again, Paradise. I also think the Clay. Yeah. Ridiculous. He's in the clear. He broke up with her. Yeah. Annalise. He's looking good. I don't think you're here for He broke up with her. Yeah. Annalise.

He's looking good. I don't think you're here for the right reasons. Based on what, Annalise? Because he hurt your best friend by breaking up with her? Again, I am sorry your friend got hurt and that sucks, but he broke up with her and he has the right to move on. But also when you break up with someone, don't say, just not right now, maybe in the future. That's a terrible thing to say to someone. Did he say that?

She said he wanted to marry her eventually. Okay, not cool that's not cool that's not cool yeah yeah again back to like i you know what i bet that is is like break up with them rip the band-aid off yeah you have you can be respectful and you still might crush someone's soul in the moment but give them an opportunity to hate you so they can move on. Don't fucking dangle a carrot so that you like in the moment stop them from crying in front of you. And then that's the one thing that they latch on to.

Well, he said maybe in the future. I've done that. You know, people do it all the time, but stop fucking doing it. You know, I've latched on. Well, yeah, but then you get years of your life gone because you're waiting. Yeah.

And again, also for those of you, for all the people listening, and I'm sure they're relating this, and I bet our 10% guys are the type of guys who've had the girls do it to them. You are adults. So when someone says one thing and all their actions do another,

they're the fuck boys and fuck girls of the world. Just because someone wants to have sex and they are not meeting your expectations of what you want from them doesn't make you a fuck boy but when they start pretending to be your boyfriend and girlfriend but say they're not what get out get out like listen to their you know words and actions and then when they don't meet up that means that like they're just fucking with you. We need like dare, but for fuck boys. Yeah. Resistance education.

Anyways, what a rant. Well, again, this episode with Chris Harrison is great. Super glad he's following me on Instagram now. How did you even notice that? I noticed it. Wow. Was he following everyone else? Oh, no no i've opened a can of worms here uh-oh anyways chris harrison no uh it's really great um i hope you guys enjoy it and uh up next

chris harrison everybody chris harrison how are you nick thanks for coming. That was the intro? Well, we do. I thought there would be something bigger. Wow, he's already shitting on the show. No, I was going to say, we hear that all the time. We do an intro. I thought it was going to be bigger. This is a break out of, we're going to try to sell some people some things they need. All right.

And now we're talking to Chris. Now we're going to sell you. Iced Eskimos. How you doing, man? I'm good. How are you? It's about time we sit down and have an awkward talk. It's been a while. It's been a while.

We've had so many weird, awkward talks in our life. So do you regret it? Yeah. What are you really feeling here? This is the first time we've turned the tables where you get to ask me questions. Yeah, I feel very lucky. Chris, you don't do a lot of podcasts.

We talked about it. You've done a fair share over the years. Yeah, I do sparing. And the people I love that when they ask, and honestly, you've never asked. And I think there's part of that, too, where there is, and no, I don't mean that in a bad way. I think that honestly, everyone's a little bit scared to go, hey, will you just do my podcast?

Like Caitlin Bristow asked me, will you do my podcast? And I said, yeah. I had parameters, which was come to my house, we drink my wine, and hang out. And then you actually asked last week, and I said, absolutely, I'll do it. Yeah, I love you guys, and I'm happy to help, and I love to be a part of it, and love to see you all. Well, not everybody. Let's be honest. Spill the tea.

Nick and I have remained good friends. And so, yeah, when you asked, I jumped at the chance. I said, sure, I'll come in and drink out of your face. It's really gracious of him. For those that can't see, I'm drinking out of a Nick Vial prison mug. Rochelle's obsessed with them. I just think they're ridiculous. They are ridiculous. I hate them.

Well, thanks for coming. We had the pleasure of having Lauren your girlfriend on the show and she's she raved about you so now this is your time to return

I have to okay just to remind you I prepared a little something I want to read she said a lot of nice things Chris so now would probably be the no but she want to read. She said a lot of nice things, Chris. So that would probably be the... No, but she was really great. And she shared a lot of some stuff of how you met. I thought it was really interesting.

And... Yeah, she outed. She broke the news on our relationship on your podcast. Thank you, Lauren. She did call to warn me after it was over. She's like, by the way, she's like, I just want you to know... After? As soon as the podcast was over, she said,

hey, I just, I did tell Nick some stuff. And she knew this was a safe place and a safe space. And that's why she trusted you and didn't mind. And I asked her before. Like, I care. She was great. Fire away. I'm a lucky, lucky son of a gun.

There you go. See? Well, what I thought was most interesting, and we talk a lot about dating on this podcast, is she talked about how you met, and it made me think about, I know technically you and Lauren don't work for the same company or anything like that,

but she's become kind of the bachelor over the years, kind of correspondent with all of the networks, but especially ET, and she's always there. So you in essence work with Lauren and I was really ever since knowing you dated kind of paying attention to the things that she covers

and then you and it's, she obviously like she's doing her thing, especially even with say the Jed drama and stuff like that. I thought I really appreciated how you guys were still able to do your thing and there's no conflict of interest. Is that something you guys kind of talked about, or is it interesting or working with someone? Was that a challenge at first? At the very beginning, we did have the conversation of, do we want to do this?

When we met and we actually went on a date and we could tell there was chemistry and we really liked each other and there was something there. Then there was the conversation of, do we really want to do this? And I'll be honest, I was a little selfish because I don't really care. I've been doing The Bachelor long enough that I don't really care whose feathers I ruffle and how many waves I cause. Because my personal life is much more important to me than my professional life. Now I've earned the right to get to that point because I'm old enough to do that. You know, she is, she's grinding and she is on the other side of

the business where I am the host of a show that she covers sometimes. She does so much more by the way with entertainment tonight and so many other facets of her life professionally. But I did say, I get the conflict of interest. I respect that. And I empathize with that. So I just, this is really up to you. Do you want to do this? And then she laid a big kiss on me and I said, okay, we're doing this. I guess that's a question for Lauren of just hearing that from you of just kind of empathizing with her. I wanted to be respectful. I was cognizant of the fact that I could be an issue. It definitely wasn't going to be for me.

Although, there's things I have to navigate and be respectful of. And I want to make sure that I treat other outlets the same. And it's really funny. Our interviews now haven't changed. I've watched some of them and I've noticed that. I've watched some of them and thought, is she even more like, I don't changed. I've, I've, I've watched some of them and I've noticed that I almost, I've watched some of them and thought, is she like even more like, I'll be honest, I'm scared to death of Lauren. She's, and this is one of the things I love and respect about her before I dated her was she's good. She's one of the best interviewers I ever face. And when I go

into an interview with her, I have to have my head on straight because she is so good at just finding the crack and then going in and not in a salacious way or anything crazy. Just she's a really good interview. She does her homework. She's smart. She's a great conversationalist. And so you can't just go in haphazard and just cruise through an interview because she's going to bust you on it. And so I like the way she pushes me. And that was one of the things I was really attracted to before we ever started dating is I really looked forward to our interviews. And this is when she was still married. I was married even. And I just really loved her interviews just because she was good.

And I still look forward to it. But now, oddly enough, I'm more scared of her when I go in to do interviews. Because A, she's still a good interviewer. But B, now I feel like I have to perform for her. I can imagine. There's performance anxiety is what I'm saying. For her interviews. You really need to be on top of your game.

I can imagine her after the interview and be like, what the fuck was that, Chris? I know. Like, God. No, she, I mean, she is. I mean, she, in my experience, like having been through the show,

you know, as The Bachelor or even a contestant, you get to interview with a lot of people. And there's some people you feel like are just kind of mailing it

and they're just asking you basic questions. And then there's the other like gotcha people who are like, they're just trying to get you in trouble. And Lauren has a good balance of, I mean, not that she asks you gotcha questions,

but you can tell she's thought of her questions and prepared. And then it's interesting. It's easier as someone asking questions because it's like, oh, I haven't been asked that before. Well, and that's the thing is, and this shouldn't sound like a novelty, but she does her homework and she's smart and she's a good interviewer. And so it's, you know, you've done a million of these interviews and it's amazing how many times you'll be doing an interview

and you just want to shake the person and say, have you ever watched my show? Do you know anything about, did you take four seconds and even Google me before we did this interview i was uh one time i won't name the net wasn't et um or the person but like it was right after ari's season and they're like man just you know cbs must be really excited about all these numbers i'm just like yeah wrong it's on abc and this was after she was like kind of nagging me a little bit. And I was just like, really? Like you just, wow. So no, she's, so she's easily one of the best interviewers I ever face. And this is before I needed to suck up to her because she's my girlfriend. She's great. She's, she's phenomenal at what she does. I really admire her work ethic. Her, you know, it's obviously, it's what, one of the things I'm attracted to. I. I'm sorry to interrupt, but for some of us that didn't hear that episode of The Vial Files where we found out how you did meet, did you hit on her when she was interviewing you?

Well, I didn't until I did. Was that after she slid into your DMs? No. Oh, she slid in. This is really weird. He flirted first. Okay. No. Oh, she slid in. This is really weird. He flirted first. Okay. So here's the weird thing about, and I think you can relate to this. You do a thousand interviews or pictures and you meet

people. And it's one of the things I love about my show or about my job is that you meet so many people. You can call it your show. But I oftentimes don't put a face or a name to people that I'm doing interview. Cause you're just doing so many, you say you're on a red carpet or whatever. And sometimes I'll look back at pictures after a night and think who, wow, that person I was with was really attractive or that was really good. Or we do. And I don't even, you just don't see it. It's really, it's a weird thing to say, but it's, um, yeah, you're just in the zone.

I'm in the zone and I'm trying to think about what I want to say and what show I'm on and what secrets I need to keep. And I'm just worried about putting on a good interview for somebody. And so Lauren was kind of like that. We interviewed for years and to her credit, she wasn't flirty at all. I believe she was married. And so she wasn't flirty and I was dating at the time somebody else. And so we really just, we didn't have that chemistry. We didn't have that thing. But the last Bachelor in Paradise, she came down to Puerto Vallarta. She did the pre-season interviews. And all of a sudden, I saw her for the first time. We'd known each other kind of for years, but I really saw her for the first time. And she did this interview. And I will admit, I got a little flirty.

And then she called me on something. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. You're not just getting to drop it off there. What is flirty to you? What did you do? Did you touch an arm? Was there a brushing of the hair? No, no, there's no physical contact. There's no unwanted physical contact. That's creepy. That's creepy Uncle Larry. Different times, Chug. Listen, this is my first. No, but like while we're doing an interview, I was just, I don't know, maybe I just was more charismatic and more personal. Yeah, a little hold of the eye contact. And I never would go into the next room, the green room,

where all the reporters are and waiting. But after she left, I actually went in there and struck up a conversation. I was trying to strike up a conversation with her, but I got hijacked by some other reporter who thought I was in there to kind of see everybody. And so it kind of failed in a way, but it was still flirty. And we, she, we went back to that and she's like, yeah, I kind of did notice that you've never come in that room before to talk to people. And so that's when it kind of started. And then we had that conversation at the tell-all. I think it was Becca's season of the tell-all.

And then she DM'd you. Did you get a little, were you kind of excited? Because at this point, from you, it's like you're kind of planting these seeds. You know, I don't nearly, where's the opening? And then she reached out. Well, after the conversation we had in the parking lot where I was just standing there, I was taking a break from hosting and she was taking a break from sitting there watching the show.

She came out and we really got into this deep in-depth conversation, a personal conversation about our lives and stuff and dating and all that. And for the first time, that's when I really saw her. And I thought, wow, like there's this, there's a real person here. Cause before then it had been a camera and an interview. And so this is the first real conversation we'd had. And I'm like, wow, she's beautiful. She's smart, intellectual. She's, you know, bold. And I'm like, this is a pretty amazing woman. Who is this?

And then when she went into my DMs, we'd already kind of had this rapport and this chemistry. And so it kind of took off from there. Did she write you up? No. Who dis? Who dis? Who you up?

Who dis? New number. Who dis? No, it was still fairly professional yes good no i mean you're clearly two very serious and wonderful right and then it took a while to go okay we're gonna do this yeah let's go on a date and then we went on our first date and then the first date was really like two people interviewing each other it really was she really interviewed me she tried to take control i was trying to take control and interview her a lot of the you know it was very what did that feel like yeah it was like two bad interviews hold for commercial break one of the things she did do after our first date she's like i didn't think you were that great because you you talked a lot i I said, you interviewed me.

It was a full-blown interview. Have you ever had dates like that where you talked a lot? I'm like, I've answered all your questions. What do you want me to say? All jokes aside though, but like... Rookie mistake. That is your phone. Who's hitting you up at 9. 30 on a friday morning i think i know i know what it is i need to pay my verizon bill because it's like it's these local wisconsin

area codes and like they know like they're calling you from uh from that but um i was thinking about that too in terms of like dating before you met lauren and i gotta assume there's a level of comfort and just like the it felt like we were interviewing I got to assume there's a level of comfort and just like the, it felt like we were interviewing each other, but yet there's a familiarity there of guys getting to know each other. And I know for me in my dating life, sometimes the struggle is really just about, and I've talked about this before, just feeling safe, just knowing that you can be really yourself around someone. And before you met Lauren and compared to when you met her, was there a lot of that when you would go on dates and meet people and I'm sure they were great women,

but like, was that a struggle you had and that Lauren kind of, other than her being great as well, like allowed you to kind of get to that point? Yeah, I mean, I dated for, you know, I've been divorced for over eight years, I think about that. Yeah, about eight years. And so I obviously have dated a lot and I do it quietly because I like to keep my private life quiet for the most part. Obviously with Lauren, it's been a

little different. That was another conversation too of how public we're going to be and how that's going to go. But yeah, I think when you meet somebody who disarms you and makes you feel comfortable, safe, or you just don't have a care in the world. It's so refreshing. And it's funny that you, and you know, this from dating is that you fight it. Sometimes you try to fit a square peg in a round hole, so to speak. And you're like, well, there's so many other great attributes, but you just, it never feels quite right. And, and with Lauren, I will say it, it does. It just,'s just so comfortable. And in large part because what an amazing woman she is. And we just have that chemistry and we have that rapport. And I think there's a lot of similarities with where she's from in the Midwest, how I grew up, how she thinks of family, the connection she has with her mom or sister and her brother and my mom and my brother and family.

And so the connection and the things that link us together and bond us together are very similar. And I think that has a lot to do with it. That's awesome. That's great. I want to get back to, I don't know this, and maybe because you haven't done a lot of podcasts, I'm hoping you haven't talked a ton about it. But I do know when you got started, you were a sports anchor. And just, I actually don't really know the answer to these questions. I know you were covering the Dallas Cowboys.

You came over. But honestly, how did this all happen for you? The Bachelor? Yeah. And just coming to LA and being basically known as the host when it comes to love. And it's a total 180. Yeah. It's a bizarre.

It really is a bizarre story that I, that wasn't intended. And I think that's kind of the beautiful thing about life and the way I feel about life. And I try to impart on my kids is, you know, have goals, set goals, but don't be so married to them that, you know, when another door opens, you don't walk through it. You know, my goal in life, and you're an athlete in college and all that. So was I played soccer and that was my goal was to get to college, try and get college paid for and play soccer. And I did. So was I played soccer. And that was my goal was to get to college, try and get college paid for and play soccer. And I did. Then when I got there, I found sports casting and I found television, fell in love with it. That became my life and my goal. And then after, you know, being a sportscaster in Oklahoma city, and I actually moved to LA in the, in May

of 99 to be a sportscaster, to start up a horse racing network. And when I got out here again, I was just open to opportunity. I did a game show. I did a home and garden show called a designer's challenge that was hugely popular for about three or four years. It was their number one show for a while. And, um, I, and I just started falling into this business and then realized that I really liked the hosting gig. And I just, I didn't travel much as a kid. We didn't have a lot of money. I'd never been to Hollywood. I had no idea or dream of moving to Hollywood. That wasn't my thing. I really wanted to move back home to Dallas and cover the Cowboys for the rest of my life and be, you know, happily ever after. But once I got out here, there was

just a lot of opportunities. And one of the things that was always on this list was The Bachelor, this reality show. Survivor had just kind of started. And one of the things that was always on this list was The Bachelor, this reality show. Survivor had just kind of started. And then I heard about this reality show that I was on. There's always a list in Hollywood of people that are up for parts or up for roles. So I was on this list, never interviewed, never did anything. And finally, after a year, my agent called and said, by the way, you're still on this list. I'm like, whatever. There's four of you and they want to meet with you. I said, great. So I go and I meet with this guy, Mike Fleiss. And the meeting was terrible. We hated each other. It was horribly wrong.

And I left and they offered in my agent called and said, how'd it go? I said, it was the worst meeting I've ever had in my life. What about that felt wrong? So I'm a really conservative guy. I grew up in Texas, Oklahoma, faith-driven, church-going guy. And I go in with my suit, my hair parted. I'm still a Midwestern-looking guy. And then there's Mike Fleiss. And if you don't know Mike, he's the creator of the show. And he had his board shorts on and black t-shirt, sunglasses on inside.

I'm just like, I look at him and I'm like, you're everything that's wrong in the world. He looked at me and he's like, you're everything that's wrong in the world. So it was oil and water. And so we kind of left. It was like, great. I hate you. I hate you. I'm glad we did this.

My agent called and said, yeah, they offered it to somebody else. Who? I will not out him. Because I know him. Denzel Washington. Morgan Freeman. Morgan, can you imagine? Yeah, he would have been good.

Is he so sad now that he didn't get it? I don't know. But there was this small pool of hosting guys. And he was one of those guys that we traded jobs. And we all went for the same auditions when I was around. When I first moved here, there was like four or five of us that were really banking a lot of jobs. There was this one particular casting agent, and she would always call the four or five of us guys when she needed guys because we would always give great auditions. She would even say, you're not going to get this job.

You have no chance to get this job. I need someone who will go deliver. And I know you'll always deliver. People don't realize that about casting is that the casting director themselves just needs to show that they know good people. Yeah. If you send 10 people in, but you just kind of always go in assuming you're not going to get it. But she was great. She was honest and she's like, you're not going to get this. Do, do me a solid. She's like, you're going to get, I'll tell you when you're up for parts that you'll actually have a shot at. She said, we're going to get you a job. You're good. And you got skills and you're new and you're fresh. So, and she did, she found me two jobs. I did the home and garden

show. And then I, she got me the game show. Um, she was great. And so this guy was one of those guys and he was, we were very different types. He was very hosty, really over the top, you know, Hey everybody, that kind of guy, which has his place. He ended up doing a game show or a show for Fox. So not too long ago, but it was, you know, I'm just very, what you see is what you get kind of the guy next door. You know, my personality is also my hosting style. You feel kind of like a friend in your home. And that's what they wanted. That's they, they They were, you know, at the end of the day, everybody, from the network to the studio to Mike,

they all take credit for not trying to hire the other guy and coming to me. Oh, but you know the truth. But clearly somebody did offer him a job. Did he turn it down? No, they rescinded it. That's why I don't want Adam. They rescinded it and went with me. So two weeks later. Yeah. Hey, it's not a right thing. It's why I don't want Adam. They rescinded it and went with me. So two weeks later.

Yeah. Hey, it's not my thing. So they offered the other guy. There's some really shitty stories about stuff like that. And this is why it was really bizarre. So I got The Bachelor. And I'm like, well, did I? Yeah, right.

So I went home and it was Christmas of 2001. Or yeah, 2001. And then The Bachelor started taping in 2002. So I went home for Christmas over the holidays and I didn't tell anybody that I got this network gig because did I get it? I don't know. Because I had also just had another friend

that did this show, this daytime show on a ship with comedy and all this other stuff. And it's a small world. And some guys called him and said, Hey, I just auditioned for your show. He's like, Oh, you're going to be on it. Like, no, I just auditioned for your job. He was already in principal production, already shooting the show and they replaced them. And so we were all scared to death and you have to go back. We were young. We were young kids and these were our first jobs. I wasn't that young. I was 30.

But I was 29, 30 years old when I got The Bachelor. That's incredible. But when I moved here, so I'm 28, 29 years old going on these auditions. And you're just grinding it out, man. You're just grinding. I love that. And I kind of miss that. I went to an audition.

No, you don't. A little bit. I went to an audition. He misses the excitement of it. You miss it when it was fresh and new, but by 35, you would have been done. I don't miss, you know, being poor and unemployed. Yeah. Or rejected.

Yeah, or rejected. But I don't know. There's something about. Yeah, there's something about the grind and the hustle. Well, there's something about sports. I went for a show. I'll even say it. It was Monopoly Millionaires Club, the game show that the guys that did Deal

or No Deal did. And I hadn't been to an audition in a while. And the guys that did that knew me from something else and said, dude, you're great for this. Please come in and audition. But we do need you to audition. Because a lot of times now I don't audition. They'll pitch a show to me because they already know who I am and they just want me to host and that's usually how things happen but this was going to be a full-blown audition and it was I really relished the fact that I was going in and I had to grind and do this and it was on the line and uh they chose Billy Waddell I think it's that's his name the comedian core choice well it didn't last yeah yeah it's not it's didn't last last. And then you get the gig, and kind of like you talked about before, there's still so much unknown.

I mean, in your wildest dreams, did you imagine, what did you think of The Bachelor when you got the gig? Other than the fact it was a network show, like, oh, that's cool, this is neat, but the concept, what did you think? I was scared to death. I was scared because, you know, the only thing that this company had done that I knew of was, who wants to marry a millionaire?

And that was the Rick Rockwell, Darva Conger. I remember that. I watched that. Scandal. So my thought was, oh my God, like, am I going to be able to show my face back home if I do this show? Because the thought of it and the idea was like,

wow, this one guy's going to date 30 women. And the only saving grace and the reason I did it, if it had been on Fox, I don't know if I would this show. Because the thought of it and the idea was like, wow, this one guy's going to date 30 women. And the only saving grace and the reason I did it, if it had been on Fox, I don't know if I would have done it. The fact that it was on ABC, and that's no offense to Fox. They were just at the time. They were pushing the limits doing really salacious stuff. And I thought, hmm.

And so ABC, Disney, it has to have a certain amount of decorum and respect. So that's kind of what sold me on doing it. And it was my first network gig. I got paid pennies to do it. And, you know, people think, oh, you get this network gig, you're set. Well, you're not. I had two other shows at the time. I had three jobs while I started The Bachelor. That's great. And then, I mean, but you don't know. I mean, the first, it didn't. So ABC was a dumpster fire at the time. Well, it's, you know, networks will do this where they get, they have these great shows and they're killing it. But then those shows age and they get a little long in the tooth. That was the end of NYPD Blue, Eight Simple Rules, The John Ritter Show, George Lopez Show.

It was like all these shows were kind of dying and coming to an end of their cycle. They were looking for something new. ABC was looking for something new, and they were like, well, reality. And so when they bought the show, it actually, the first season, didn't do great. We did well, but not great. And then it was over the summer.

So we actually premiered in the spring. Then over the summer, there was just this groundswell of support, this phenomenon. And the show blew up. By the time we came back season two, which was Aaron Berge, I could tell my life had just changed. I wasn't sure how, because it was like going to the Super Bowl your first year in the league. But we had 33 million viewers the end of that first season, or the end of season two with Aaron Bergey. Then Trista came on and I'm like, okay, I don't know how yet, but I feel like my life just changed.

And when, like, I'm assuming people started noticing in grocery stores and things like that. You know, it's really been the best rise because it was really a steady, my whole life has been just this steady rise, my professional life. It was, you know, I was a big fish in a small pond in Oklahoma City and I got to cut my teeth and really become a good journalist and a good interviewer and a good listener.

And I really got to hone my craft in Oklahoma City. Felt like a big deal. And it was at the time. And then I came out here and did a home and garden show and I did some other stuff and got to cut my teeth and get into the business. And then when the bachelor started, it was a slow burn. And so, and, and the show has never been a huge host driven show. So I've always got to kind of fly under the radar. And even to this day, I kind of get the benefits of being known, but not really

having my life destroyed. Yeah. I mean, you do have a pretty normal, it's perfect really. Yeah. No, I mean, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that I've worked hard to do that. And that's a conversation I even have with Lauren. I'm like, I'm a very private person. I'm pretty protective. I don't put my life out there on display because I love my private life. I love my friends. Most of them are not in the business.

Most of them aren't even on social media. And so that's not their life. It's mine. And so I try to separate the business. Most of them aren't even on social media. And so that's not their life. It's mine. And so I try to separate the two and it's kept me mentally extremely healthy and happy. Aw, that's so good. You must be a really hard worker or what do you attribute? Because you're like, oh, I just fell into it. But people don't just fall into careers like this. No, you don't just fall into it. I always say what you see on The Bachelor, you're seeing the top 10% of the iceberg. You know, you're not seeing, you know, the, I've been at this game a long time.

You know, I've been on TV since 93 when I graduated college. I've been on TV. So I've been at this a long time. And so I always say, you know, it took a long time to become an overnight sensation. But I'm a grinder and I've always been a grinder. My family, you know family came from pretty humble means and they worked hard. And my mom is one of the hardest workers I know and has recreated herself many times over and is one of the most successful real estate agents in Dallas and has

been for some 30 years. And it was all her. She created it. And so I have so much respect for my brother, my family, and that's all I know. And so I do. I like the grind. I like the work. One question I'm kind of piggybacking off of Rochelle's is on my season of The Bachelorette, on Andy's season, my first season. Your season. Well, I meant to say my first season. There was a GQ article where you were kind of, that you gave an interview of yeah um and they taught one thing my biggest takeaway or that I remembered is the interviewer talked about how you have no wasted words and he was he pointed that out and I was very envious of

that because also that was again my first season on tv and I found out for the first time how much I say things like like and um all the time how like is that something you had does that come naturally speaking to Rochelle's question like are you did you aware are you aware of the wasted word because I have a lot of wasted words that's I was like I was like this is a good compliment that was a great I was I that that's all I remember from the article and it was a really big. It's probably something that was not necessarily thought of, but honed over years of just being on TV and realizing that you have a finite amount of time.

The other night on the finale of The Bachelorette, both nights actually, Monday and Tuesday, were really crazy. When you do live TV, I always tell people in this business, you can control two things. How you get into a show, it's got to be clean because you control that and it's scripted. How you get out of a show, typically scripted and you have that hard time of when you get out. Everything in between, you never know what can happen on live TV, but I always say you should at least control those two things. The other night, Monday and Tuesday,

we had really random things to end the show. And it really left. So Hannah wanted to say something Monday night and I needed her to deliver. And then I had to get us out and it was a really tight time. Sometimes you have what's called a credit bed and you have like 45 seconds that you could talk over that credit bed. But Monday night, we had to hit it on the second. And I take such simple pleasures and things no one will ever notice, but we nailed it. Just nailed it Monday night. And so you just, I think back to your question, you don't have

time to waste. You've got to choose your words wisely and get to the point, especially when you're doing an interview on TV. Yeah. I thought that was, yeah. Wait, can you tell us more about the finale? What was it? And then the finale on Tuesday night, the whole thing was going to end with this moment with Tyler. Right. So again, when you get to that, it's live TV.

So you are off the air. And a lot of times, and Nick knows, if we shoot the tell-all, which is taped, you can shoot all night. It doesn't matter. And then we will edit it and put it and it'll look pretty in this package. That's why I love live TV is we had four minutes in the act with Tyler, period. And there were some things we needed to get to because we hadn't serviced Tyler at all. So we had to do that. And Hannah has a tendency to not go quickly. Have ways. I mean, Hey, I was, she can get lost too. Yeah. She can get lost. And so,

you know, and they're counting down in my ear, like two minutes. And we had this idea of at two minutes, we need to get to the part of, is she going to ask this guy out? And I wasn't sure if it was going to go there, but we had to give it time. Oh, man. And so here's the other dilemma. If she just spits the bit and it's over in 20 seconds. Then what do you do? Now I'm filling for a minute and a half. And they're sitting there. And Tyler's like, no. So it's really amazing in your head of you're on network TV, you're coming to the end of a show, you have to end it on time. And there is this intangible,

it could be short. You got to fill, it could be long. I got to kill it, but I also have to create this content because it needs to be there. And so that is the stuff that I, that's what I get. That's what I get off on. It's it's, that is my drug. I don't do drugs. That's my drug. I love live TV. I love the pressure of it. And it goes back to sports. And it's what I've always relished about sports is the ability to put yourself out there to fail. I've never been so afraid to fail that I don't allow myself to succeed. And that to me is such a key virtue of life is I love the ability to fail. And I try to teach my kids that. And I love live TV.

That's walking on a tightrope without a net. You could fall on your face. It could be a complete disaster. But if you've done your work, you've done your homework, you've trained, you've prepared, that's all you can do. And then you hope your body takes over. And any situation that comes up, you can handle it. Do you have any kind of flops that you can think of over your career?

It's I don't live TV. You know, what's funny is I don't remember flops as much as I remember things. It's little stupid things that no one will ever know that you pull off and you get done with the show and the people at home would never have noticed. Like there was one, I don't know why it sticks to my brain, but there was a Miss America moment. I hosted Miss America for like 10 years. And there was a moment where Brooke Burke or whoever was hosting with me was supposed to follow this Miss, I think it was Miss Alabama, ironically enough, off the stage. An interviewer, she was walking back because she had just been picked up or saved. And Miss Alabama ran like she was shot out of a cannon and they lost her. And I was already walking off stage halfway behind stage when they said, stop, camera two, fill. Just filling the time. And you're on live TV. And so I stopped and I

hit my camera and I filled for about 30 seconds. Which is a lot. Which is, it's an hour and a half on TV. I wish we could find that tape. That's hilarious. And then they said, we got her. Go. And I said, yeah, Brooks caught up with Miss Alabama. Let's go hear her backstage. And I just walked off stage. And it's like, no one will ever know.

I just killed that. And again, it's just- This is a win. This is the story of a win of this 30-second set. That's what he's saying. I remember Monday night. I remember Monday night for so many other reasons than people watching the show.

And it was killing the, killing the exit on the second and still having Hannah ad lib, you know, cause she doesn't know she doesn't have a clock in her head. She's not watching. She doesn't know that the stage manager is like, Oh, and you know,

10 seconds. And I'm just calmly looking at her and I drag it and we get out. And like, those are the little victories. It's fun for me. Yeah. I love that so much. You could tell, like, I mean, I have a lot of experience hosting and doing what you do and with the countdown out of the clock and it was making me sweat because I was watching

her having a very good time. Well, when you produce a show, like, you know, whether it's a podcast, anything, when you produce a moment and it comes off like you hoped, like you intended it, those are the little things of, and our producers are phenomenal at what they do. And I, especially for those live shows, we all get together in my trailer before the show, we go over each act, each segment, what do we hope to get? You know, and I have a producer, executive producer Bennett in my head while the show's going on, giving me times. What do we have to get to? We got to move on. And so it's, it's a delicate balance and it is, it's this tightrope

act that I always love. I get off on it when I'm done. I'm done. I wake up hung over the next day. It's a beating, but I love it. I don't remember which AFR it was, but it was when I was new to it all for the most part. Chris probably doesn't remember this, but I was going to the bathroom. Chris is going to the bathroom, and he just looks at me. He's like, don't let me down. I always say before we go on, I'm like, don't F this up for me.

It is like his show. That's like your big moment. When I got cast as The Bachelor, I was waiting for Chris to say something and he sends me a text. And I really appreciate it because I feel like we have similar senses of humor. Drew it kind of dry, sarcastic.

And Chris just texts me and goes, don't fuck this up. That was your congratulations. No, I couldn't. That was really, it was really a fantastic. Good luck, don't F this up. That was your congratulations. No, I couldn't, I, that was really, it was really a fantastic, don't up this up.

I really, it made me, it made me laugh and smile. That's, but that's Chris. It wasn't like, I wasn't expecting some sort of like over their sappies. Yeah.

Poem. Yeah. What a, what a great, great, a great thing. You know what I loved is with Luke, where you just sat there and let it be like a minute of silence

before he answered every question. That's great too. That's a good point. It's like talking about just your experience and being on, well, that's not live. That was the tell-all. But just knowing to just live in a moment. It's hard.

I mean, as a podcast, there's sometimes really great moments in silence of like building an awkwardness and like just having the awareness to to let that marinate we all as humans we all want to fill space because it's uncomfortable like silence is uncomfortable and so you you just have this innate want to save somebody in a weird situation but really in those situations you want to leave them alone in this space wherever they are and their thoughts to like, where are they going? And I think it's fascinating to watch these people, especially Luke, who was really going deep and trying to figure out the right thing to say, not what he wanted

to say. He was trying to figure out the right thing to say. And so I just found it, I found it fascinating. And I, and my goal in that interview was not to expose him or whatever, but just to show who he is and let him do his thing. He seems to have, like he, that's the thing. My take on Luke is he just kind of embraced this whole, I don't get the sense and I haven't, I don't follow him on social media that he, it seems like he's doubling down on who he is and leading. Which is great. You know, and I even said he didn't hurt anybody. No. God bless him, man. If that's, if know, and I even said, he didn't hurt anybody. No. God bless him, man.

If that's what floats your boat, then good on you. I, you know, whatever it is to get you through the day in this world, I'm fine with it. You know, my only thing was he was condescending. He was misogynistic. And, you know, I think some of his beliefs, not his beliefs, because I respect his religion, but his thought process is a little

antiquated. Hopefully, yes. And hopefully it can be altered. And we've talked a lot about Luke. But he's young. He's young. And I quite honestly hope that this experience will be a bit of awakening. I mean, again, different times though, when I was 24, I didn't have some of the progressive viewpoints that I have now. Oh, God. None of us. I mean, that's the thing. Who were you when you were 24? Who was I when I was 24? If you put a big camera on me and followed me around, like, yeah,

probably would not have been the best guy in the world. Yeah. And especially different times back. I mean, you come from a conservative family. There were definitely things that I was taught or raised that I've said that I was just like, thank God I did not tweet that, you know, like Twitter didn't exist,

but that, that, you know, so there's some hundred percent, some like I give him some slack, but hopefully it's an opportunity to, again, his faith and everything.

But some of the things he said, there's a growth opportunity. Right. And that's, and that's, and I, that's why I'm not mad at him. He's not a bad guy.

He'll grow. And, and I, and that's what I hope for anybody who comes on our show. And you think even since I've known you, you're a changed man, you're a different guy because you have so many more experiences and that's how you grow is experience. Failure. Yeah. Failure. All these things, this, the scars from things, the victories, it all adds up. I always say, like, you know, Bennett, you mentioned Bennett and we've had conversations with other producers about my like only experience and there's been highs and lows. And like, I joked with Tyler that my first season was very different than, you know, he's, he's big right now and everyone wants a piece of him and that's awesome and cool

and he deserves all of it. But like, I look back on my experience and i really wouldn't change a thing especially with some of the really low lows but like because of it it just made me more well-rounded it gave me a ton of perspective and sometimes for a cast member in this world the hardest thing to handle is the adoration and the love because you get such swelled up and you're, even if you are level-headed, your ego and your sense of self gets so distorted. And then you're eventually going to get some criticism.

And then how you handle that is really sometimes challenging for a lot of people. And it really taught me a lot early on and really kind of gave me an even keel of my experience. It's really hard. And that's one thing I have trouble having that empathy because I, as I said earlier, had this nice slow ascent, getting to a hundred thousand feet. And if you're a bachelor or bachelorette and you are

Hannah, for example, who we just finished with is in Tuscaloosa and she's had a modicum of fame, the pageant world and all that, but this is different. She went in Tuscaloosa. And she's had a modicum of fame, you know, the pageant world and all that. But this is different. She went from Tuscaloosa, Alabama to Jimmy Kimmel Live. That's not normal. Nobody, and I don't care who you are, is prepared for that. And so there's always a bounce.

And I always give this grace period because Hannah's about to go through it where your head's going to swell up. You're going to start feeling your oats. You change a little bit, but, but by the way, you have to change. That's when you, it has a negative connotation when you say she changed. Well, you got to, people say that about me when I grew up. It's like, oh, you're different.

Well, yeah, because I had to learn how to protect my family. I had to learn how to protect my privacy. I had to learn how to protect my money. My life is not the same that it was when I was drinking beer with you in Oklahoma City. It's a different world. I would like to think that as a man, I'm still the same as far as my beliefs and being a good person. But you have to change. So Hannah's going to change. She's hanging out with Demi Lovato now. yeah she wasn't doing that three weeks ago the hardest the hardest part about the lead or just any cast member on The Bachelor who has

who's a fan favorite is that six to twelve months period when it's all done because right you know to your point she's hanging out she's hanging out with Demi Lovato she's having fun everyone wants a piece of Hannah and slowly over time less and less people will want a piece of Hannah. And figuring out what everyone wants to do. And I was talking to Tyler. We were talking to Tyler after the podcast. And it was just kind of like, listen, you seem like a great guy. You have people around you. I think his sports background is really, really going to help him. It does. But it's, what do you want to do? You need to figure that out because you'll be able to ride a wave for six to 12 months. But after that wave is done. Well, you have to remember in September, I'm about to introduce 25 to 30 more

Hannah's to the world. Yeah. And that's the truth. We have another season coming up. But it's funny you mentioned that because I thought about that with Colton too, is having that sports background. He played in the NFL. So obviously he's a little media savvy. And he has a good hand on his shoulders. I feel like Tyler's the same way. And people's backgrounds definitely help them. But even for Colton, man, it's a rude awakening. It's a different world because you really are all of a sudden being noticed everywhere

and you feel great about yourself. And you mentioned something interesting. I guess the highs are higher, but I guess the lows are lower for you guys. I don't have that. I don't get that. When people rip on me or tear me apart and tell me I'm ugly or I have a big nose or whatever, I don't feel that. I could care less. But for you guys, you have this adoration, but man, one comment can really tear you apart. It really can. And again, sometimes I feel lucky too, because I had the negative comments first. You did too. You could only go higher. I was on Paradise and it was like, this is great. And it was kind of a joke that way, but I did really appreciate that aspect of it because it gave me some of that balance. I mean, it was

different because you talked about kind of a real even keel where the, for cast members, it's usually up or down, but it made me at least be able to like, for me personally, in my own mental state, kind of acknowledge it. Even when I would respond emotionally in my head to something, I had the awareness to be like, you know, I've talked, you know, other cast members, everyone thinks this. And I was like, what do you mean? 30 people comment on your Instagram. So that's not everyone. Yeah. And also yesterday, they all like something else you did. You have to remember that social media is the loudest 0.01%. Yes. And that's why we don't run the show via Twitter or Instagram or anything else, because it really is just the like most normal human beings.

A aren't even on Twitter or social media and B, they don't care enough to comment. They're just living their lives. That's a great point. They just don't. Most people don't care or have the time. They love the show. They like watching. And that's, you know, even going on to spoilers and stuff like that. We, we get so caught up in things and it's like, no,

the majority of people don't, they don't know. They don't care. They're just watching this for entertainment and they're not caught up in all of the BS that's going on in LA, New York, or whatever. One question I do want to ask you before we get to our little, little game as a two-time runner up, I always wondered, and I had this conversation once with JoJo way back when, the challenge of being the host and in a runner-up situation, the engagement the last final day. I didn't have that experience with Andy, but I had it with Caitlin.

I remember JoJo, we were kind of joking around, and she's just like, that motherfucker winked at me? Yeah. She says I winked at her. I still don't know if I did that. And if I did, definitely not intentional. Okay. I was curious about that.

I will say this. Before I have you answer the question, cast members in America sometimes will criticize the show and producers and you fall kind of under that umbrella as well in terms of oh i can't believe they're able to do this there are moments though but like i will the number other few exceptions but usually the best thing that can actually happen to you as a cast member you don't realize in the moment is getting heartbroken is getting dumped that's like the

best thing in terms of everyone's great moment the other 29 people who don't get picked there's like oh you know they have feelings and people empathize you feel stupid in the moment but that's your best moment and so sometimes as cast members or america will get mad at them but you're actually doing a lot of good things the caitlin breakup how could she let me go that far i realized after fact, had the producers not insisted to make sure like you need to let him try to do this, even though like he's going to be mad at you. It was the best thing to, it was my best moment up until that point. Is that something that you like have gotten good with of like knowing that in that moment, someone's going to be heartbroken or mad or sad or, and you have to like have that poker face. Yeah. It's easily the most difficult part of the show for me because at that point,

I've gotten to know you. You know, when you are one of 30, I'll be honest, I don't remember you if you're on night one or even night two and you go home unless you've made a big impression somehow. But at that point, there's just so much you're drinking from a fire hydrant at that point. somehow. But at that point, there's just so much. You're drinking from a fire hydrant at that point. Once we get to the end, I've traveled with Nick. We've worked out together. We've done all this stuff. And so I know JoJo and I care for her. And so when they walk up that final day, it is hard. But I have to just resign myself to the fact that this is part of the show. And to get to the good part, we got to get through this and not everyone's going to win. Not everyone gets a ribbon. Some people lose in life and that's the

way it goes. And it's at the end of the day, it is better. It is for the best and it is part of the show. Um, and that's kind of what everyone has signed up for. It is the, the chance to, to find it. And whether you know it at the time or not, you weren't meant to be with that person. Totally. And that's just, that's, and you see that later, but it's tough in the moment. Totally. And not to equate you guys, the producers or Chris with God, but it's a lot of like, sometimes what you don't get is the best thing, the unanswered prayer, so to speak. And so, and then producers always know what's going on behind the scenes and you think there's something there.

Andy and Caitlin, both great. I'm thankful they didn't pick me. It worked out for the best. And that is the challenge. If you could have ended up with one of them looking back, who would it be? I really don't think. You got to pick.

He's going to squirm. Sincerely, i have fond memories of both andy the other day on monday night she sends me a text out of nowhere and it was the picture of us at afr when i dropped the sex bomb yes and she sends me a photo sex bomb. He said. I mentioned. He said. Yes. If you didn't love me, why did you make love to me? I wanted to make the name of this show. That's money. That's gold. Well, I remember because you've said that to me.

Whoa, wait, what? No, not no. Oh. Reenacting. Oh, got it. I'm a new viewer of The Bachelor shows. Welcome to the nation. I wanted to make the name of the podcast, Making Love with Nick Viall. He did not got it. I'm a new viewer of The Bachelor shows. Welcome to the nation. I wanted to make the name of the podcast,

Making Love with Nick Viall. He did not like it. I try to, you know, listen, I don't, I guess I do regret it. Okay, so three women you've been with on the show. Andy, Caitlin, who else? Name one more that you kind of dated. Vanessa?

Vanessa? Sure. Okay. F. Mary Kill. Come on. Go. Yay! Do it. You have to. No? Sure. Okay. F. Mary Kill. Come on. Go. Yay! Do it.

You have to. No, I can't. I can't. I'm not going to. That is definitely. That's a headline. It's an ET headline. 100% it is.

Nick, fuck Mary Kill. Yeah. No, Andy sent me a text. She's like, this was five years ago. And it just, it made me smile just that we're on this good page. Andy, like Andy and I joke about, it's easy for us even is, we don't have like a close relationship.

We still butt heads and fight. We're big personalities that way. And like, and you guys are not good together. No, terrible. Caitlin, at the same time, I also have a lot of like, there's reasons why I went far. There's reasons why I loved them in the moment

for those reasons. And that Caitlin's funny and snarky. It was reasons why I loved them in the moment for those reasons. Caitlin's funny and snarky. It was always we could rift off each other. But at the same time, I don't think there was a match there. It's hard for me to answer that question because I know them well enough now. And I know why we didn't end up together. So to answer that question would be disingenuous. I do too.

I feel like you just do all three things to one person. No. No. Chris, you can answer. But Nick and Andy, here's the thing. Andy may be the F or the kill because they're going to kill each other. Yeah. Yeah.

They're going to go. They just have this combustible relationship that when you're young, and that's one of those young relationships where you're like, oh, this is great. And you're battling. You're battling. Life doesn't need to be this hard. And when Andy texted me, we were laughing. And it ended up us bickering over text.

I was like, I don't want to fight with you. I think you're great. Caitlin, I think, would be your Mary. Caitlin would always be fine. Caitlin would be your Mary. So Caitlin's the Mary. And then it's Andy Vanessa who's going to kill and who's going to F. Well,

kill Vanessa. You're going to, you're going to F Andy. Sure. And then it's going to end in a just flames. Well, yeah. Flames for sure.

I never thought about this. No, I just invented it. This is a fun game. Yes. Like look at him squirm. Yeah. Well,

I, that's just not a question i can ever get away with actually of course it's not no it's like saying hey who's your favorite bachelor bachelorette like what am i going to say yeah no yeah um what before actually i didn't we i haven't watched the paradise yet we will i'm sure have covered it in our intro at some point give us i mean you know a little what's what what are you excited for this season of course you know what's funny there's what's different what's the same you brought up something i wanted to mention this because it really struck me is is interesting with you is there's a nick vial you i feel like you really came in a changed

man and really redeemed yourself and reinvented yourself on the paradise you think that's fair uh yeah i mean to the audience yeah yeah i don't think you were a different human being but i think the audience kind of fell in love with you. And then you became The Bachelor. I felt like, I mean, I still will say Paradise, if you go back and watch all four seasons, Paradise is the only season where it's like, that's me as a whole.

Yeah. Because Paradise allows you to be more. Right. So Chris Bukowski is back this season. Okay. And he's kind of the Nick. Great. Like he really, you know, Nick, or sorry, Chris was, if you don't know him's kind of the Nick. Great. Like he really, I, you know, Nick or sorry,

Chris was, if you don't know him kind of old school guy, kind of known for being the drunk, crazy guy. He's the guy at the bar that can, you know, all of a sudden knock a table over or start a fight or break everything. You know, it's like, that's, that's him. He's a good guy. And it's interesting. He kind of comes back this year and he's the wise old sage now dispensing advice. And you're going to see a different side of Bukowski. And we retired his jersey. We thought he was done. We brought him out of retirement.

But he's an interesting story. But I think it's our best season ever. There's so many layers and so many good stories to this season. It's pretty phenomenal. It gets better and better. I thought my season with Josh and Amanda was an epic season. I thought last season I objectively liked last season just at least

as much as my season, so it's exciting. And I hear a lot of great things. Is there an opposite? Is there a bizarre? Is there a fall from grace we might be able to see a little bit from someone who might be a a fan favorite and then like so much blake watch watch blake oh um hey put your hand in the cookie jar enough time i mean i've heard some stories that's the thing it's just like and i kind of said this to tyler after the, Blake might be a tale you tell to former- Cautionary tale.

Cautionary tale of a lot of the guys, it's different for the women. It is easier for women in this world in terms of opportunities afterwards. Oh, 100%. 100%, it's better for women to come off the show. Just for brands and everything else. But the men in public get the, you know, women women are watching the show so it's a lot of like oh my god and a lot of attention a lot of attention and then there's like bar opportunities and stuff like that and you really have to know what to say no to um and they're blake's not the first person who uh was loved in his first season and and had some w afterwards. And that doesn't make them bad people at all. It's just-

In all fairness, again, you go back to who was Blake? Where was he from? And then all of a sudden, and it's not that he was an unattractive guy, and we don't even have to use Blake, any of these guys. They're all decent looking guys. They probably dated, but they never walked into a bar before and the music stopped.

The whole room turns. Right. And every girl there wants to take a selfie and wants to be with them in some way. That's different. You know, these guys came from total obscurity, never had that popularity, or they wouldn't have been on our show in the first place. And so now they have that modicum of fame and it goes to your head and it can also go to your head. It really is so interesting because historically men aren't as overtly objectified in public.

And what you're saying for you bachelor kids, it's like you come out and all of a sudden men are being very, and I love to objectify men, you know, don't you? Yes. But it's, it's a unique phenomenon. If you're a bachelor nation. I just think too, you're just, you are, you're pulled from obscurity and you're given this platform and now you are the popular guy and you're, you've never been the popular guy before to that level i was i was first time i met like we're in vegas for the iheart and i gave him a hard time he was feeling it he was feeling it i was just like you need to slow down man because we were in a cab together and like i can give him some kind of some slack but like we got to a stoplight and there was a crowd of women and he rolled down

the window oh boy stuck his head out and i was just like because he knew the reaction he was he was he wanted people to you know and and that was just and again i having been it for a while and i'm sure you do as well like i want to have i want to see people have success i don't want to see people make some mistakes that i know they're bound to make. And it's just like, if I have the opportunity, I'm just like, don't do this. This is a teachable moment. This is going to like, I get it, but like try not to. And listen, I've part of that is making my own mistakes too and having done it and, and, and live through it. But it's, it is tough. And the men get objectified a little bit. And I try to do this for, and you can vouch for it, is when the bachelors and bachelorettes leave me, they all have my number. We text. I try to keep in touch. And at first they don't because they're

all smarter than I am. They've all figured the world out. And then they all usually come back and go, okay, can you help me with this? So I'm like, you know, if you ever need advice, you're about to be inundated with a lot of things, you know, but we have a great network of people now and not just me, but also fellow bachelors and bachelorettes that have been through this before. And you should rely on them because they've made the mistakes you're about to make. It's kind of like listening to your parents. You don't, and then you make a mistake. You're like, damn, I should have listened to them and and so i i give blake and all of them slack because they're getting into a pool they've never been in before and it's super fun and it's great their lives are changing so enjoy it and they're not bad people no and we

all make some dumb mistakes totally you are you can be intimidating though sometimes that's sometimes that we don't reach out really i yeah i mean by. I mean, by the time when I, when I not, not, not by your doing, right. You're Chris Harrison of the bachelor. It's a, it's a, it's at this point, the bachelor franchise is a part of American culture and you're the face of it. And when I met you, it was, I was meeting a big celebrity and I didn't even watch the show that much before. But once your season, once we kind of got into the meat of your season, you and I are jogging every day. Running with him is like running with an effing gazelle.

Oh, wow. Thanks, Chris. It was really side note, side story. So we're in New Orleans. And so Bennett, again, our executive producer who I work with closely, and Bennett played college soccer. I played college soccer. Nick ran.

So we're all fit. We can all run. We'd go for like a four mile run and, you know, just to wake up and clear the cobwebs. And we'd be jogging and we'd be going at a pretty good clip. And all of a sudden Nick's like, you know what? I kind of want to stretch my legs out a little bit. I'm like, okay, we'll pick it up. And Nick's like, in less than 20 seconds, it's like a half mile ahead of us. Oh, wow. Like I never, like he was shot out of a cannon. And for like 10 seconds, I tried to keep up.

And I really had that old man moment where I'm like, son of a bitch. But the good news is I could never do that. I could never run. That's a different gear. That was impressive. Well, it's, thank you. I mean, I did run track,

but also like I am getting older too. And you've told me about that moment. And now when I'm out there running, I'm feeling like my ability to do that less. The only other person that did it to me was Colton, who was also an elite professional athlete when we were jogging in like Thailand or something like that. And he just took off and like, Oh, screw it. He's 26. I was doing that when I was 36. Well, I don't think I was doing that when I was 26 either. That's the thing is all, you know, on the show, all these guys are so big, they're all fit, they're tall.

And, you know, it's one of the things when people see me, they're like, you know, you're not as short as I thought you were. I said, no, I'm just next to, I'm the opposite of Hollywood. Usually in Hollywood, you stand next to Tom Cruise. Right. Tom's four foot two. They only cast guys that are like over six.

It's amazing how like every guy I meet, I'm like, they must have. There's a few, but 30 guys, 25 of them are 6'2 or higher. That's the great thing I love most about Ari. It's probably why he's my favorite bachelor. He looked older than me. He had more gray hair.

He had a dad bod. I'm like, I can do this. Sweet, I'll sit next to you all day, man. Oh, man. Chris becomes the hottie of the season. Yeah, I'm like, I can do this. Sweet. I'll sit next to you all day, man. Oh, man. Chris becomes the hottie of the season. Yeah. I'm like, finally, I'm the young, good looking one. All right, Chris, before we let you go, we're going to play a little game called.

Do you know me? Okay. It's a fun game. We like to play with this. Do I know you or do you know me? We know you. Okay. Does America.

So you ask a question. Everybody in the room answers it. Yeah. We will. Eventually you're going to answer. Okay. I'm going to, you know, but you give me your Well, eventually you're going to answer. Okay. I'm going to, you know. But you give me your opinion first.

We're going to guess. Okay, go. Blue. All right. So do you know me? Do we know Chris Harrison? First question. Has Chris ever been in a fist fight?

Ever in his life? I'm going to say a big no. I'm going to also say no. I'm going to say a big no. I'm going to also say no. I'm going to say yes. He's broken up some for sure. No, I'm talking like seven years old, Oklahoma. No. He wore a suit, he just said.

I'm going to say yes. I grew up in Texas and went to school in Oklahoma. Yeah. He's been in a fist fight. He did? Yeah. Oh, he's got some edge. But I will say, and it's funny, Lauren asked me this a while ago. She's been in a fist fight. He did? Yeah. Oh, he's got some edge. But I will say,

and it's funny, Lauren asked me this a while ago. She's like, when was your last fist fight? I said, it was college. It was a long time ago. Well, because I played soccer.

We had some brawls in college. And, you know, you have those fraternity brothers that get you in fights. So the college was it. You know, I'm not, I was never the grown adult

that was in a fight and getting into fights. No, that's what I, yeah. See? Wow. And definitely when I was a kid. adult that was in a fight and getting into fights. No, that's what I, see? Wow. And definitely when I was a kid. I answered this question. Grade school, I was in some, my brother used to get me into fights

because I had an older brother and he would argue with his friends. He'd be like, my brother can kick your ass. Chris, fight us. I don't want to fight him. He's like, kick his ass. And you're a kid in Texas. You'll see, I would be in a fist fight

with a person I didn't even know for no reason. Welcome to Texas. Wow. See? Has Chris ever binged an entire TV show in a single day? No. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no.

Yes, he's got a really cushy job now. He's got some free time. I'm going to say yes. You're implying that while the cushy time. You said entire show, correct? Entire season. Entire season of a show. When Benji became popular, I think Chris was too busy.

He had also a father of two. I'm going to say no. Yes. In a single day? Yes. An entire season? Close. Yes.

Only because, here's the caveat, here's the cheat. I had never watched Game of Thrones. Yes. And so I finally got on Game of Thrones and I was on like a 12, 14,

16 hour flight, you know, flying over. And it just happened this season. Wow. So I'm the loser that just started Game of Thrones. I haven't seen it. Okay.

You're so lucky. I know. I'm jealous of you. Everybody was freaking out about the finale. I'm like, okay, I'm going to dive into it. I haven't seen it. So you didn't complete a first season, a full season. And I still haven't even finished it. So I'm bad about finishing things. I'm taking the points though. What are you talking about? It's one to one. Well, here's the real story. Lauren watched it. Lauren was into it. And so she kind of forced me into watching it. Now I'm addicted. Has Chris ever been to a nude beach?

Yeah. I'm going to say yes. I don't think he was nude, but I think he's been to one. I think he was nude. I think he was there and he was nude. Kind of, yeah. I stumbled on it, but I wasn't nude. I didn't get nude.

Oh. But I've been to a nude beach just because we've traveled so much. I was going to say, as a host of the show. Yeah, you've been to everywhere. And it's just never the people you want naked no never can Chris do 25 pushups in a single rep yes

I'm going to say no 100% that's not crazy I like this question these cobras are hidden under this shirt, but I am pretty fit. Did Chris cry at the end of Marley and Me? Have you seen it? Has Chris ever had Chris cry at the end of the notebook?

Yeah. I cry. end of the note had chris cry at the end of the notebook yeah i cry i i probably could count on one hand the amount of times i cried before i had my daughter my daughter's 15 now i cry like a baby at movies or everything i i'm a movie crier i can cry at a commercial movies i really cry it's dad the dad stuff gets me now. Rudy. Oh, Rudy. Even stupid stuff like for love of the game and field of dreams. Like, dad, you want to have a catch? I'm like, no.

Moments in movies get me. When you're done. It's now the daughter stuff. The daughter getting married. You know, you just think, oh, walking your daughter down the aisle. Now I cry, cry. Like even at, and I'm not so ashamed to say,

but like at my birthday, like a couple of weeks ago, I was speaking to friends and all this stuff. And I'm like, I started tearing up. I would like to see Chris Harrison cry. Why don't they show you crying on The Bachelor? He doesn't have, he doesn't cry on The Bachelor.

I don't have time for that. Everyone else is sobbing. He's like, guys, guys, stop. I like this one. Has Chris ever, don't answer right away, Chris. Has Chris ever been stood up on a date? I feel like he got married so young. He doesn't date much.

I say no. I'm going to say yes for fun. I'm going to say no. I can't think of exactly when, but sure. Yeah, it has to have happened. Over the last eight years. No, I feel like you remember. In LA?

Dating in LA? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, definitely. Very rough. It would have been. Obviously, I started dating when you guys were born, and so that's when I got married.

So it wasn't pre then. It was post-divorce. I have some weird stories. Oh, I wish we had time. Oh, I can't get into them. I'll write a book someday. I didn't want to bombard him. He was kind enough to share with Lauren.

Has Chris ever bought a pregnancy test? A what? A pregnancy test. Well, yeah. I have two kids. I don't know. Maybe like... Not post-divorce.

What about pre-first marriage? Well, my wife and I bought a pregnancy test because we were wondering if she was pregnant when we were trying to have kids. Yeah, so 100%. I bought many. Because then when you think you are, especially your first kid, we bought like 10.

What about before you ever met your first wife? No. Okay. That wasn't a thing. Probably because no one would sleep with me. That's how I got on TV. Last question. So softball. Does Chris prefer vodka

over tequila? Tequila. He prefers tequila is my vote. So no. Vodka. I will say vodka. He's from Texas. I'm going to say vodka. Well, you're all right. But's from Texas. Oh, shit. I'm going to say vodka. Wow. You're all right.

But you're right. I used to be a vodka guy, but now I'm a diehard tequila guy. Diehard? I'm a big tequila fan. Yeah, I've really got it. Like in terms of like a connoisseur stamp. Yeah, I love my tequilas. I love, I have certain tequilas I really love.

You and The Rock. Yeah, you guys aren't sitting beside him. I am. And there's a tequila. And you can smell. I'm just kidding. He doesn't smell like tequila. Another thing Lauren and I share.

We love our tequila. Well, Chris, I know you have to be on your way. I really appreciate you taking the time. It's been fun. You're always a great interviewer. You're a better interviewer, but a great interviewer. Only because it's your profession. Well, no, that was like...

I'm like an A interviewer. I'm like a B minus interviewee. I agree with that. I think you're five stars across the board. Thanks, Jill. I was trying to compliment on his interview. People are going to love this episode.

I don't think a lot of people... You've become this enigma. Your job is to get America to know us as cast members all the time. And, you know, people are always looking to get to know you more. So I really thank you for your time.

You want to tell people about your restaurant in Texas? Yeah. Hey, if you're in Dallas, a little side project, it was a passion project, a steam theory brewing. It's in Trinity groves,

just outside of downtown Dallas. I'm from Dallas, which is why I set up some roots there. It's awesome. Really? Like really? It's in Trinity Groves, just outside of downtown Dallas. I'm from Dallas, which is why I set up some roots there. It's awesome. By the way, today, International Beer Day. International Beer Day. We have like 22 beers on tap. We've got a great brewmaster, great food. Go in. And on Mondays and Tuesday nights, go in for Bachelor, Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise nights. We sell the place out. It's awesome. Oh my God. So fun. Say the name of it again. Steam Theory Brewing.

Steam Theory. Dallas. In Dallas, Texas. For those of you living there and all the people who don't live here are listening, when you're visiting Dallas, make sure you check it out. And if I'm in town,

I'm always there. I do. I hang out. I can't wait to check it out. A lot of the bachelors and bachelorettes in Dallas swing by. It's cool. Awesome.

And he was talking about how he loves natural habits earlier. Yeah. I was going to get a plug in because we have it going next to you. I love that. It's like you're in every episode, Chris. People think someone's vaping next to you.

But you were nice enough to send me an assortment, an accoutrement of your flavors and your smells. And I have it by my bed. It's really good. I have the, what is it? The quiet. The release. Yeah. At night. And I have it on. bed. It's really good. I have the, what is it? The quiet, the release. Yeah. At night. And I have it on, my daughter loves it. And so, and I was just, I was apologizing

because I use it and I was going to post something and I just got lazy and I didn't do it. And I felt like a dick. It's fine. NH oils.com. It is good though. Congratulations on all your endeavors, man. And, and the podcast and everything. I'm I, it does me well. It makes my heart swell when I see that people from our show have become such good men and women and go on and do great things. And I, I wish everybody great success as they head out and do stuff. And like Jordan and Jojo just started their new show. And I, you know, I reach out because I'm like, I, it makes me feel good. I want to see you guys do good. I want to see you guys make a crap load of money and have good lives and meet people. Same. But right back at you. He's been a great mentor for all of us and he's been a great friend.

So thanks for, again, taking the time. It means a lot and I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Chris Harrison, everybody. Stick around for questions. Stick around for questions. Stick around for questions. Hi, Amber. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys? I'm good. I'm Nick. This is Shug.

Rochelle's here. She's hanging. Hi. Okay. So I'll give you like a little brief story to my question before. So my mother-in-law actually set my husband and I up three years ago because I worked with her and everything was great throughout the whole dating phase. But once we got engaged, it became like a nightmare. She was like so controlling of the wedding. And so was my mom because they were paying for it it but it got to the point where and this is totally on me I went through my fiance's phone and I saw that she um had sent a message to him saying like don't marry her if you marry her you're gonna marry into her family's baggage and like just totally criticizing my character and like her because she set us up and I worked with her for two years so you'd think like oh you'd be really excited to have me and so we ended up postponing our wedding people like our friends don't know about that of why we just said it was because of school and so we ended up

eloping this past December but I actually so you got married you were married now we're married now yeah we're married now I actually ended up calling her out on some of the things I heard her tell our coworkers saying like, she's a manipulator. She's a liar. She fabricates her stories. And when I called her out, she was like, what are you talking about? Like, I never, like, who would say those things? And I'm like, well, how do you know she said this at work?

So I had asked my husband, I said said who did you hear these things from because I've used people from work for references and he goes it was actually my mom I was too scared to tell you that it was her who said them well how did your husband hear of something like where did this come from originally like I mean you know what I'm saying like you used you're looking for references from work but like something came up and your husband's like you know like what's the story that so you knew people weren't saying nice things so we moved to utah for his master's program okay and we it was the first time i have ever lived with someone that wasn't family and it was the first for him to live with a girlfriend and so we were just at

each other all the time like this is before you were married where we were still engaged. Okay. And so it just got to the point where like we both were combining in our families, but his mom would say things to people at work saying like, Oh my gosh, Amber, such a bad person. Like she's starting fights. And it was like, I'm not starting fights. We're just trying to learn to live with one another, if anything. Wow. So she was interjecting I'm not starting fights. We're just trying to learn to live with one another, if anything. Wow. So she was interjecting herself into your relationship in so many different ways. And you said that you saw text messages too. So you have proof.

You know that she's been talking like this. It's so interesting because I feel like so many times when a person is like, oh, you know, she's manipulative. She's a liar. She's this, she's that. It sounds like your mother-in-law is actually those things. And she's projecting them on you's this, she's that. It sounds like your mother-in-law is actually those things and she's projecting them on you. People do that a lot.

So where are we now? So we are at the point where she still, oh my gosh, it's like I get really frustrated being around her because I have to watch what I say. And he's called her out like, why don't you like her? And she's like, it's because she takes you away from me and I'm the one that encourages the time we go over there and see them. But yet she focuses it all on herself. So I feel like she's the one who's not spending the time with her son

and getting to know me on a personal level. How old are you two, the two of you? I knew you were going to ask that because I listen to your podcast. We are 24. Okay. And is this his first serious relationship? So he's been in three relationships, and I'd be the third. And then I've been in two, and he's my second.

Okay. I mean, it's tough, right? Because I think we kind of know what's going on, to what Suge pointed out. But it's not so much understanding what's going on, but what, what should point out, but it's not so much understanding what's going on, but can kind of, I'm guessing your question is like, what do you do about it? Exactly. Because honestly, if it was up to me, I'd probably like call her out on everything, but I want to be respectful because it is his mom and she has my mother-in-law.

Question for you. So you guys eloped, you said, right? We eloped, but we included our parents and our siblings because i really wanted my dad to be there and my mom and he wanted his siblings okay so that's good i was wondering if like who was there who was not there because maybe there could be some uh resentment towards that uh how did her how did the parents feel about the eloping um so his mom was all four in the beginning and then she doesn't like my family and it hurts because they used to be really close and they like the same football team but at our brunch we had she just seemed so mad the whole entire time and then when we got our photos back she's

pissed off in every single photo and i can't get my wedding photos back is she is uh is he uh the oldest son yeah we both are okay uh mean, listen, this is kind of one of those classic cases of mom. It's interesting. I have a really close bond with my mom. I'm the oldest boy. I always feel like there's something about a mother-son relationship and a father-daughter relationship that seems to be unique. And most of them I think are healthy and normal, but sometimes not so much. I mean, unfortunately, like there's not much you can do. Um, I, you know, I think it really needs, I think what you can do is you need to like keep asking your husband to support you because it really has to come from him. At some point he really needs to stand up for you and have your back. And and he really like he needs to

put his mom in her place so to speak and she needs to like she needs to really realize that she like because right now she's doing it because she she's doing it because she knows she has an influence over him she knows as his mother that she's been doing this his whole life that she can guilt him and things like that. This happens in families. I mean, I won't get into specifics, but even family members where their parents, not necessarily my immediate family, but I know people in my family that parents can sometimes do that. It's a controlling thing. They have a way of guilting sometimes.

And sometimes as we get older, they forget that we are adults and can make our own decisions. And it just comes down to him really having your back. And I think you just need to, I don't know, it sounds like maybe he's done a pretty decent job. He's totally put her in place and knock it off. She's my wife. What's the issue with her? I don't get why you constantly put her down. She's done Mother's Day gifts for you,

birthday gifts, Christmas gifts. She picks those all out. But yet it comes back and the blame's all on me. I think it's... Go ahead. Do you have any interest of... A, I always think that we have a place to say to the other person what's affecting you.

And like, I know you don't want to bring it up because it's your husband's mom and it's your whatever. But at a certain point, I think like human to human, you could, you know, have a one-on-one date with her. Like, let's be like, hey, let's go get our nails done. And have a minute where you're like, I got to admit, like, this is just not the relationship I was hoping for with you. And like, I think you're amazing. And, you know, buffer her up. Do what you need to do.

And then just be like I just want us to move forward how can we turn this around what can I do what can you know how can we do this because I think like she is looking to hold on to the relationship with her son and the fact that she set you up and had all of these ideas and she liked your family at first. And then it's almost as if her walls kind of shot up when she was like, oh shit, he's going to marry her and like this is it and I lose my first son. So she's having like a complete panic and shutting you out and talking shit about you like she's being a child, right? Your mother-in-law is being a child.

Literally. I think it is in twofold and I loved your advice,, Nick, of you need to be to your husband like, yo, you cannot let her speak to me like this. And B, you need to, in your own power, gently like a woman, and you know how to manipulate the situation by taking her out for a soft afternoon and being like, listen, mom, we can't continue like this. But I wouldn't spend too much energy, you know,

the fact that she did introduce you actually makes more sense than you probably realize because and this is a mom who's used to like winning her son's life so her introducing him to women that she seemingly approves of at the time but just because they introduced you she'd introduce you doesn't necessarily assume that you guys would get married so kind of like it's i what i'm saying is i wouldn't for you waste a lot of energy trying to be like confused or understand that situation it's just someone who's so used to running her son's life and to your husband's credit he is putting his foot down and she will keep doing it until she realizes she has no control and there there'll probably be some period of resentment and anger.

And I think Shug makes a great point. To salvage that is to just keep smiling and kill her with kindness. And if you are going to confront her, don't do it in a work setting or where she can feel threatened and you're coming at her. You're really going to have to smile and, like Shug said, kind of manipulate the situation where you're just like, listen, I love your son and I hope you love me. I'm not the person you seem to be, you know, but I do like, I don't appreciate you going behind my back, especially at work.

Cause you can't keep doing that because it's not okay. And then, but you need a lot of support. I think you're, here's the thing to Shug's point, you're, you need your husband to play bad cop and you're good cop, so to speak, right? Yeah, and you get to present her. You've got to think about what she doesn't realize that she's missing out on, right? This is a woman who clearly values having a special relationship, having a place in her son's life. But what she seems to be overlooking and what you can, in a very gentle and loving way, present to her is that she gets to have another special relationship because she has a beautiful daughter now. You know, like there's, there's ways into that kind of mentality to be like, I just, I just want to love you. Let's make that, let's make that easy. Yeah. And if you guys start having kids, I mean, this is where your husband can play bad cop. Like, hey mom, if you want a relationship with your grand kids like you you need to have a relationship with my wife so like we've talked about it like my parents love and adore him and they even joke

like we're so glad she's on your hands and he's like i love your family i'm very comfortable but with he even notices with his family there's a lot of tension and he hates having to be around them and it makes me sad because i want when we have you know, they'd be good on both sides. Is it, is it like, is, is it just her and you, is that the tension? Is, is there's, I mean, other than like in the same football team, are there, is there religious differences? Like what's causing. Um, so gosh, so I grew up non-denominational and she grew up LDS. And so she's never gotten like baptized to let him figure out his own path. And a lot of like his family is LDS. And so they pushed a lot of that onto him and he's like,

I don't want to. And I'm like, I don't want to have to support Mormon. Okay. So I don't, I like, I respect Mormons. I just don't agree with their beliefs.

Is he religious? Sometimes. Okay. When it comes like. Hey, aren't we all? And she is, they are, they're family. She claims to be religious, but I don't, I don't see it. I don't see like God truly loving her for who she, like, I don't see God in her heart.

Sure. Well, I, I listen't see God in her heart. Sure. Well, I, I listen, I I've seen this before. My first girlfriend, I had to deal with this. Her mom was very intense. I think if he's your husband, right. And you love him and it seems like your relationship's doing well and that's great. And I think this is one thing that it's going to take, it might take a year or two. If you guys stay the course,

you'll probably eventually soften up when she just kind of realizes she kind of constructs, she's kind of being a, she's throwing a temper tantrum. She's throwing a fit. She's acting like a child and like child's most do eventually they just give up when they realize stomping and throwing a fit doesn't, doesn't get their way because they're used to getting their way when they do

that. She's used to, yeah because they're used to getting their way when they do that. She's used to – It's exhausting. Yeah, she's used to – Of course it is. She's used to guilting her son and throwing a fit, and then he gives in, and he's not. He needs to really stay the course, and then you just kill her with kindness. Okay.

I will definitely do that. Thank you. Yes, good luck with that. Yeah, and just remember, it's a child. You're allowed to speak to them very slowly and like help them understand. Well, don't be condescending to her. Why? She needs it.

If I do that, I could get myself in trouble. Yeah. Good cop. She's a good cop. Yes. Well, nice to meet you. Thank you for calling in. Thank you.

Like everyone probably tells you, I listen to you every day I go to work and it makes my day so much better. And I appreciate you letting me be on here to talk to you. Oh, thank you. Thanks for taking it. Thanks for sharing. Of course.

And I did five stars, so. You're the best. And let us know how it goes. Make sure to keep us updated. I will, definitely. Thank you. All right, bye-bye. Hi, Ruby.

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. I'm Nick. This is Suge. We have Rochelle in the room as well. Hello. Hi. Hi. Welcome, welcome. How can we help you, Ruby? Thank you. Nice to meet you too. I'm Nick. This is Suge. We have Rochelle in the room as well. Hello. Hi. Hi. Welcome. How can we help you, Ruby? Thank you. So I have an older sister who's 42 and she's single. 42. And kind of in our ethnic backgrounds, kind of once you turn 30 as a woman, like your marriage prospects really, um, are very minimal. And she, you know, she tried, we tried, uh, my husband and I tried, you know,

setting up with people, her friends have tried, um, and things just never worked out for her. And so she kind of gave up for a while. And, uh, recently she actually said that she kind of wants to try it again. Uh, and so it was kind of encouraging her to, uh she kind of wants to try it again. And so it's kind of encouraging her to kind of remove herself from our like ethnic background and try even people who, I mean, obviously we're like a Muslim and you can kind of see that. And it's a very visible thing because we literally wear like our face on our sleeve. And so it's something that she doesn't know how to do. And I don't know, um, kind of if someone would even be attracted to that. And, um, so my question to you is kind of

what your opinion is and whether or not she should be going out and kind of venturing out into that type of realm who I feel like, you know, there are men who would consider someone who is her age with the possibility of not being able to have their own biological children. And if so, kind of how to do that. Great question. And thanks for calling. Did you say she's 32 or 42? 42. Okay. And you guys, when you say ethnic background, so you're Muslim, like you said, you know, you, it's, you know, you have, you know, you said you wear your religion on your sleeve, so to speak. I mean, my opinion is, I grew up, you know, growing up very Catholic and it's not as maybe mean Christian, I guess, in America is more socially, I guess, acceptable. Let's just be honest in terms of what it is. But I often think, I think it comes both ways, right?

There's certainly a lot of stereotypes and there's a lot of criticism in America, especially with Muslim religions. But at the same time too, like is religious people in general who want to start dating outside of the religion. And in my experience, I sometimes feel like the fear is more, more on the, on your side where the question is, are there going to be men out there who would want to date your sister? Absolutely. Like 100%, there are going to be Christian and Jewish and non-religious men who might be open to your sister. I think the big question is when she starts dating these men who don't have the same faith background and just the same background in general, is she looking to bring someone in, so to speak, and kind of convert them? Or is she just trying to find a partner and then kind of go from there i guess is my first question so technically because faith is something that is

important to her um like someone would have to just technically convert but whether or not they are practicing is something different um but as long as it's someone who would respect her, I mean, she's pretty independent, you know, and she has been used to kind of doing her own thing. So as long as someone is respectful of that, I think she'd be fine with that. Yeah. Because if you're saying that in, in, with, with your community, that there are a little bit more, maybe, maybe a little bit more because you can, you don't have to be Muslim for, for men to sometimes stereotype older, older women. So let's not, you know. Yeah. And I kind of want to separate the religion from it because it's more so

like come from like an Indian and Pakistani background. Okay. And it's not like a really a religious thing because our religion actually says otherwise, but it's more of like a cultural thing. I think, yes, there yes, to answer your question, there's plenty of men who would be interested in tainting your sister, you know? And does she, is she really set on having children? Is that something that she wants?

Or is she, you know, you brought up, okay, are men going to be afraid that she can't have biological children? Listen, as an older woman myself, I'm in my late 30s and I'm single. And I have my own opinions on children and how I want to invite them into my life and when and all of the rest of it. So I don't feel, you know, I don't feel handcuffed to the fact that maybe when I'm ready to have children, I can't do it biologically. That doesn't scare me whatsoever. And I also know that to some men, it's very important that they

fall in love with and marry somebody who is at that peak breeding age. I get that too, but that's only one pocket of men. There's also men that I'm meeting and really like having wonderful conversations with that are on the same page as me about building a family and what that can look like. There's just not only one idea of how to build a family anymore. And, you know, I think encouraging your sister to be empowered in that idea and to find people and to become very clear on what she wants so that she can put that into the universe so that she can communicate that to these men that she's dating. And I personally am an advocate for mixing everybody up. As far as background goes,

as far as race goes, I really truly believe so wholeheartedly that humanity needs to just mix it all up. Other people aren't as much as, say, you and I in that category. But I do think it's important just to realize that it's probably those people that Suge is talking about that kind of have that mindset where they don't really care if you're white, black, Hispanic, Indian, or whatever religious backgrounds. Again, for me at this point in my life, I grew up very Catholic and very Christian. And I guess if all things being equal, that'd be fine. And I've

mostly dated white women in my life. I grew up in a community that was predominantly white, but I don't have a preference. I just want to meet community that was predominantly white, but I don't have a preference. I just want to meet someone that I connect with and that I have these intimate moments with and I feel safe and have this bond. And so that doesn't have a skin color. It doesn't have a religious background. But if I meet someone and if it was really passionate to her to be Muslim, I mean, you know, whatever. I'm fine with it because that's not what I've, you know, at this point in my life, when I'm, how I'm picking a partner. I think there's just so many different ways to connect.

So as long as your sister's open to it, I think she's going to be surprised how many men she finds open to it at that point. And then after that, like figuring out how they work in a relationship, who's converting, who's not, you know, those are conversations you have to have, but the initial interest in terms of just men being interested in your sister, a sea of men, I'm sure. And 32 is not. She's 42. Oh, 42. But still, but even at 42. Yeah. It's kind of like where, I guess my question is also where she can kind of put herself out there. Just because, I mean, she's tried obviously like the online route and just things haven't worked out.

But, you know, she goes to work and, you know, she's kind of like has her normal routine. And so beyond that, she doesn't really come across anyone. So it's kind of like, how can she really put herself out there? Is she under certain restrictions? Like her social life, is it fairly active other than work? Is she a part of groups or organizations or things that were single men might go to. I mean, socially, if you're not going to do the dating app thing, and dating apps can be challenging that way because it's a lot about, there's probably going to be some stereotyping going on there and that could

be a challenge. But if you're out there and they're getting to know your sister and they're meeting her and they're interacting with her and they're getting to know her personality, I think that can up your chances a lot. It's just her getting out there socially in whatever that is. It doesn't have to mean going to bars. It could be, even if it's like joining a recreational sports league,

she doesn't have to be athletic. She doesn't even have to have to like sports. She can just show up and be like on the bench. It's just finding different social ways that people are interacting outside of work and just expanding your area. If you work in the same place at the same time, the only new people you're going to meet are like new hires, you know, and that might not happen a lot. So it's just trying to find new ways to meet people. And there's a ton of ways by just joining

different groups or activities or social circles. Volunteering is another way of doing it. Regardless of your faith, you can volunteer at all different types of religious organizations and meet people. That's always a great way of doing it. Fundraiser types of stuff. Yeah, that would be my suggestion. Yeah, a lot of these apps are starting to do experiential. That would be my suggestion.

Yeah. A lot of these apps are starting to do experiential. So it's like, oh, Bumble will throw a singles party at a local bar or whatever. And those ones are always great because it is hard to meet people online. And it takes a lot of being bold and a lot of kind of going out of your – it's hard to make that an energy connection. Totally understand that. So I would look out for like singles events in the neighborhood and things like that as well. Yeah. And I think it's great that she's trying to open up and not feeling the pressure of dating

in her community. And she might be one of those things where she tries that and then she still ends up meeting someone she's more familiar with. You just never know. But it's just getting out there. And I'm a big believer in never giving up. This idea that you said, she tried and now she's ready to get back out there. I just think it's always important to keep yourself open. It doesn't mean you're hustling and trying so hard, but you're just open to meeting people and not ever totally closing it off.

Yeah. Great advice. Yeah. Yeah. You never want to close doors and windows for rooms you hope to fill one day. Yes. And please, as her sister, do her that great favor of not giving up on it either and encouraging her to keep faith and love. And it's all around us. So be sure as her supporter to remind her that she's not too old for anything. I have an auntie who she fell in love at 55. You know, she fell in love at 55 and that's just how her life story was

and she's the happiest lady in the world, you know? So just please, as her sister, be sure to encourage that. Okay, thank you. Well, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. Bye. That's a tough one. I mean, I mean, the reality is is like certain faiths and certain cultures have different

standards. And, you know, we're like, you know, we have such more of a progressive mindset out here and people, LA is there's so much, it's more of a melting pot, but that's not always the case. And I think it is harder. And even like, shit, growing up in Wisconsin, you know, part of the joke is you moved out here when, you know, I was, you know, I left when all my friends got married. Hannah talked about that. And she was here in the South where it's just like there's an expectation. And if you don't, and then you turn 30 and people start looking at you. Yeah, she wrote in the email,

once you turn 30, a girl doesn't have many options in my culture. And that just makes me so upset. Sure, but there's truth to it, right? It's not how it should be no it's not but it's not just her culture it's it's it's it's actually it's a lot and it's true it's society in general numbers do dwindle that's that's a true fact i know but that doesn't make it hopeless by any means i think that it's quality control they're just getting all of the garbage out of the way there's so much more value in women besides like what you can offer, you know? Totally. But just in people in general, this idea

of, I mean, I get it all the time, right? As someone who like is probably most known for my dating life. I haven't done a question with Nick or post a picture of like a thirst trap where there isn't at least one. I don't understand why he's single. And that's meant to be some sort of compliment with like an ounce of criticism of like, well, what is wrong with you? Why are you where there isn't at least one, I don't understand why he's single. And that's meant to be some sort of compliment with like an ounce of criticism of like, well, what is wrong with you? Why are you single? Maybe it's just because I've decided not to settle down

because I haven't found the person I want to settle down with. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Somewhere along the line, we decided, like back 10 years ago, if you were a guy who's seemingly eligible, good looking, good working, and you were single in your 30s, it'd be, is he gay? You know, why isn't he?

Like there had to be a reason, you know? And maybe the reason is you just haven't wanted to find your person. Single isn't necessarily a negative thing that we have a way of making it out to be. Her sister's desire to meet someone is why you should be in a relationship, not because you're afraid of being single. And then, yeah, listen, there's double standards all the time. But I love your idea of, you know, when I started putting pressure on myself, I kept thinking to myself, I started having friends who had gotten married and divorced within the

time span of me never being married. And listen, that happens. And no criticism there for people who shot their shot and didn't work out. But I would rather, whenever it is, to your point, meet that person and have that be the best relationship in my life and have maybe a 15, 20, 30 still year, your successful relationship and hopefully marriage. And maybe still, you don't have to have kids. That that's what I want. I don't need to get married three times just because I need to not,

the fear of like, well, why aren't you, how you have settled down? Why haven't you been married? Why don't you have kids? Like, hopefully we're all here for a while. You know, life is short, but you know, at the same time, get it right. So take your time and be patient.