The Viall Files - E324 Bachelor In Paradise Recap With Bri Springs and Kit Keenan

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

On today’s Bachelor Recap we are joined by both Bri Springs and Kit Keenan from the 25th season of The Bachelor. In this recap we dive into discussing meeting people outside of the show, people on the beach dipping into the DMs of past contestants, and what people are really playing the game for. We also talked about the ongoing toxic masculinity on the show, when you should have someone’s back, learning that you weren’t in love with someone until you’re actually alone, and using therapy to process a relationship.  “The first months back in reality… it’s like an emotional hangover.”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today!   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: DoorDash: Download the DoorDash app and use promo code VIALL to get 25% off your first order (Subject to changes, terms apply).  Pill Club: Go to http://www.thepillclub.com/VIALL to get your first birth control care package and donate to help more women in need of affordable birth control.   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @brisprings @kitkeenan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files very special episode because we are it's our first episode we're ever recording from New York. Nellie and I are on vacation enjoying the city. We came to do some concerts and just enjoying friends. And well, we still need to recap Bachelor in Paradise. So we decided just to do it here. And because we're in the city, what a great opportunity to talk to some fan favorites, have them recap the show with us.

The wonderful Brie Springs and Kit Keenan are with me today in studio to catch up with them and find out what's going on in their lives. Let's also break down Bachelor in Paradise, maybe get some tea, some inside information. Obviously, these ladies are friends with so many people who are on the show. So I can't wait to find out all the information they have to share. Ladies, how are you? Thanks for having us. Very excited to be here. I'm super excited.

What an intro. Thanks, Nick. I do my best. Before we get into the recap and catch up with these ladies, after this episode, it's probably going to be a lot of time to get to us. The very captivating and interesting Rod Thill is with us, who has risen to stardom via TikTok. Talk about all things nostalgia and anxiety in the workplace and life. And really introspective guy.

Really enjoyed my conversation with Rod. We talk about things that he's passionate about, like toxic masculinity. And again, anxiety, nostalgia, workplace, and social media, and really loved my conversation with Rod. So keep listening after this episode. Check out that. It's probably going to be live by the time you get done with this.

And other than that, let's get to the episode. Well, before that, how have you been, ladies? What's going on with you? We had a fun weekend. We did have a fun weekend. Yeah, we saw, how have you been, ladies? What's going on with you? We had a fun weekend. We did have a fun weekend. We saw both you, Natalie and I. Natalie's also in the studio. She's not quite mic'd up. Say hi, Natalie. Hi.

Hi. One big takeaway I've learned from this weekend is that women love A$AP Rocky like no other. That's an understatement he's so pretty yeah i mean no that's an understatement great show i fell in love with him but like the the visceral reaction i saw from all the women watching it was i mean i was just like this guy this guy fucks also the

queen kind of gave us permission to really fuck with asap rocky because i i mean i've always loved asap rocky i always thought that he was extremely attractive but now that rihanna dates him i feel like he's even more desirable because now you know like he's a real one is okay yeah i was very impressed it was a great show i liked it better when he sang he's got a beautiful voice who's your favorite of the weekend i think asap rocky and i wasn't expecting that yeah because like i haven't like followed him closely as a fan like i like a lot of his songs but that's the cool thing about festivals or concerts you can become a big fan of someone if they really bring their a-game and I think I'm a ASAP Rocky fan like I wasn't before.

Just like Eminem. I was like, I liked Eminem until I saw an Eminem concert. And then I was just like, I'll fuck with Eminem. Yeah, that always happens. You end up loving people more after seeing them at a great show. And he put on a great show. Yeah, ASAP was my favorite. What about you, ladies? Yeah,, A$AP was my favorite. What about you, ladies?

Yeah, I think A$AP was my favorite. Meg was phenomenal, though. Meg was amazing. Meg is like, you are watching and you're just like, wow, this is so, she's a great performer. Like, there's just so much put into that performance that it was just, that was a very fun show. We saw some of our Bachelor in Paradise friends.

The nation was there. The nation was there. The nation was there. The nation was outside last weekend. Yeah, I got to meet Riley and Ivan and Abigail a little bit. I've met Chelsea briefly. Yeah. Noah, I met Noah.

Yeah, it was kind of all- And his red overalls. My first time meeting a lot of people. I can't believe that. I feel like I've met all those people. Really? Yeah. Well, yeah, okay. meeting a lot of people i can't believe that i feel like i've met all those people really yeah well yeah okay i interviewed ivan once but virtually so i hadn't met him in person

and other than that oh and noah as well so i hadn't met either of them riley tall and i thought because i just you know yeah he's yeah he's really tall he's tall i he's not only has large arms but also really quite tall but before we get into the episode ladies what have you been up to and i want to start with that as well as and you guys you two don't need to confirm you can say what you want but i'm uh what i know from my inside sources is that both of you had the opportunity if you wanted to look for love on the beach and a lot of people as i sometimes will tease will say how they turn down paradise when they definitely did not turn down paradise however it's my understanding that both of you

if give if wanted to you could have been sunbathing on the beach looking for love. And yet we, unfortunately, because I'm a fan of both of you, did not get to see you guys look for love on Paradise. Any response to that? And either way, why did you guys decide for yourselves that maybe Paradise wasn't where either of you wanted to look for for love or or faith out for you yeah it did it did it did work out for me it did work out for me and at the time my relationship was probably coming to fruition but um i think the reality is

i just wasn't interested in any of the guys either that were going on. There was no one that was going on that was like appealing enough to go back onto the dating show. That's how I felt. There was just no one. Like, obviously, there were some guys that I didn't know were going. But from the guys that I had talked to or heard were going, I was like, I don't know if any of these are. So it was something that both of you,

had there been someone that you felt more compatible with, you would have been open to coming on. It was. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. If it was like another like Matt james situation where they're like we're bringing on this person and be like yeah cool let's go but it didn't feel that way okay what a like authentic response do you feel like um your peers there's a lot of obviously

conversations this season about the sincerity or lack thereof about people going on the beach. There's been obviously accusations about, you know, teaming up or going in as a relationship. And if you've listened, I'm, you know, I make it pretty clear that I think on some level they're all there for TV. level they're all there for tv and there might be degrees of sincerity on like hey i i'm there's a person i'm interested so i'm going to sincerely go and we'll get into this episode a lot but there's a lot of like yeah whatever who's available kind of like you know between like aaron going from chelsea to tia to you know the it's there's a lot of musical chairs so to speak and then you two obviously are just like listen there's no one I'm genuinely interested what are your thoughts on some of your peers and do you in terms of conversations you've heard do you feel like

there's degrees of sincerity in terms of who's there from the people you know I think there are a lot of people who kind of went into it just thinking maybe, you know, part of the reason I'm going is probably to be on TV. And part of the reason is because maybe I will meet someone and kind of just going in there with an open mind. think that it really only gets to be a problem if you're really hurting someone in the process and um i think that's what we saw like with the brendan natasha situation yeah yeah it's a great point i totally agree uh because yeah i don't have a problem with any of them being there for tv everyone's acknowledging they're going on a dating show again and this time it's completely different so yeah it's interesting and i again i met to met met a lot of them this weekend and yeah and i have no problem with it but like there's a lot of like something i heard this weekend from someone saying yeah i'm not going to go back to work and i'm gonna see if i can make money off of my experience on paradise was something i heard this weekend totally fine yeah whatever to each their own right yeah i also one of the things

too that i was looking at bachelor in paradise i was my friends and i were comparing it to like a hinge like like it's like hinge but for for bachelor nation people and i was like that's a really great way to think about it like you go on and you kind of play, do this like dating roulette and maybe you luck out or maybe you don't. It's just like in your face. Like, for example, like you said, you go on a dating app and everyone's, you know, has three or four different people they're talking to or various degrees. And you might go on a date, have a nice time.

And then, you know what? Maybe you're feeling good. You're like, you got, you know got two dates lined up back to back. Yeah. And everyone just kind of knows and you get it. And that's why things like defining the relationships a thing because, hey, we met on a dating app. We both know how this works.

And Paradise is the very in-your-face version of watching it unfold all while you are trying to find find love which i guess what makes it so compelling um speaking of brendan and piper you guys you two know piper like what conversations there's a lot of speculation about were they in a relationship were they not were they just talking anything you two know to like set the record straight on you know like piper has come out and said we you know they both made it very clear from their point of view that they were not in a relationship yeah from watching it i don't know if i believe that but at the same time like you know there's it's like are they hanging out every day but they're like haven't defined it like what does that mean or or maybe was that not the case like would like i think i've heard i heard from a guy this weekend say um he actually thought brendan was open to dating

other people but the right part like other people didn't show up. And he might have, like it wasn't, Brendan wasn't just waiting for Piper. Piper was his favorite of the people who showed up. Yeah. And that Brendan was maybe making moves outside of Piper. Anything on that? Are you aware of anything or what are your, or just general like opinions on that? Yeah.

on that are you aware of anything or what are your or just general like opinions on that yeah i feel i mean uh kid i feel like she's like she's thinking what should i no no i i'm just like in such a tough situation because obviously i have known natasha before i went on the show um like in the first episode when she's talking to Kenny and she's like oh I used to date the oldest guy I've dated is 50 something or whatever that's my parents friend who she's talking about so I met her like in the years before I went on the show and she's the one who I really talked to like when I got a DM saying do you want to do this and I talked to her straight away and I was like what was your experience like whatever and she really talked me through that so I have known Natasha before my season before I met Piper and everything but I am clearly friends with them both so I'm definitely in a tough situation with this one. I think, you know, I don't know what their relationship was before they went on the show.

I just, and honestly, like it's against like the rules to go in there with having any sort of like solid relationship. But honestly, like I don't even think that's the biggest problem. I think it's how Brendan especially talked about Natasha after the fact and like how he belittled her. I think that is really like where he went wrong. Yeah, yeah. where he went wrong yeah yeah I like I definitely felt like there it was very I think everyone knew everyone in bachelor nation knew that they were they had seen each other they'd hung out several times because there was a bunch of people in that group it was kind of I was under the impression

that nothing had been like formally established because I was under the impression that if anyone were to walk down paradise like walk into paradise Brendan would have been open like I was totally under the impression that he was open to getting to know people who are coming in but it also doesn't sound like you know it kind of sounds like maybe there was some miscommunication before on both of their parts before they left about what their relationship fully was or wasn't. Cause yeah, the way he handled the situation with Natasha, it seemed like he was really, really, it seemed like he was into her,

not really, really into her because it didn't seem that way at all. It seemed like he was leading her on in a way where she could have perceived like he was leading her on in a way where she could have perceived that he was into her. And he, yeah, it was this situation that the way he went about it was not very clear.

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is again it's about the vagueness and not really saying anything but saying just enough to sound confusing so that you know like if you're like, and it happens in the real world, like in Natasha's case, it was like, I mean, I like him, so I want him to like me back. And when we like someone and we want to like them back, we're vulnerable to like reading into things, to hearing what we want, right? And so the fuck boy in that situation, Brendan, is saying and doing things that are like, you know,

it's easy for us to be like, Natasha, girl, like, come on, we kind of know, you know, like. Yeah. And it's easy for us to say that because we don't give a shit. We're not invested. But like, everyone's been in that situation in life where we like someone we're interested in. And we're like, there's something saying, I don't really, I don't know. And then we try to like, have that conversation. And that person's kind of like, no, like, I think you're great. And I really like you. And it's hard in that moment to go, wait, you're not actually saying anything. Right.

Well, thrown into the situation of The Bachelor too, like I fully remember being on the show and hearing like hearing Matt be like, thank you for sharing that. And I was like, he loves me. He likes me. It was one of those things, I've said this earlier, but it's like someone gives you an inch and you take a mile and you are very much in a situation where you feel like one word means like, okay, that's the word.

That's what he's saying. I mean, it's highly competitive. You just want, it's a competitive atmosphere like you want validation so like i i get it with all the conversations about again like brendan and piper were the height of it the specific but as i've pointed out like they're all doing this to some degree like maybe not james i think james is like an innocent like hey guys we're all supposed to be dming people but like you're welcome to give names you don't have to but were some of the people we see on the beach now we're watching

were they in either of your dms before the show sessing out your interest and and going to the beach and if so were were they trying to make connections pre-Bachelor in Paradise? Yeah. Yeah. People asked me if I was going on the show and at the time I was very like sure that I wasn't. Yeah. Yeah, same.

How many different guys? I think only one. Okay. I'd say two. Two? Yeah. Okay. And they were- Well, maybe three. Maybe yeah okay i'll be brief

no no no actually because it was in a group setting like i'm actually i'm remembering this was also at the height of like i think our season coming to an end too and so there was just i felt like we were always um chatting with a lot of the guys so like um damar riley and ivan like you know we had a little like coalition of um the black bachelor gang um so those conversations have started like sure but that's more like friends totally but there were there like specific like dms like hey like if you're going maybe yeah i mean i would do the same thing like if i was going on and i found i thought someone was really cute like yeah i'm gonna ask them if they're going on the show too okay like are you going to paradise so we're there everyone there's kind of and again when i say guilty i use it very

loosely yeah in the sense that no one's really really no one's really all that righteous down there of as we've heard this episode a lot of like respecting the system and you know that that's been like to your point kit like no one really took the time like no one's really defending natasha still even like i don't think natasha she is like people are on the show on the beach oh no not On the show, on the beach? Oh, no, not on the show. I think in real life. Bachelor Nation's got Natasha's back. Oh, yeah. Watching the show is like, you know, they, everyone there, especially when this episode starts, there's, it seems like a lot of cast people are, you can like their look, you can tell they're thinking about what to say. like their look you can tell they're thinking about what to say and they seem more hell-bent on protecting the sanctity of the show and like the reaction to like ivan breaking the rules seem like

kind of insane and hyperbolic i think that's obviously a great way to place to start with the show so like obviously like ivan you know the episode ended with ivan and aaron it was even less of a deal than i even thought they're gonna make they didn't even like you thought i thought they were gonna open up with the fight again and then it was gonna end they didn't even bother showing us really like the fight it was just like over already yeah essentially um and it was like what earlier on you had aaron talking to marissa and it's clear that marissa's energy is not siding with ivan she's like what's the problem kind of thing like ivan's kind of like yelling this isn't fair and blah blah blah and then right when and then aaron says something yeah and then a then Aaron, I mean, Marissa responds to Aaron and they like, they don't, what did

Marissa say? I want to know. The show cuts her off. They like, basically you can hear her turn down the volume and it goes to this like more Aaron montage of like what Aaron thinks. And I wanted to hear Marissa's point of view of the situation. I don't, I've already heard Aaron's and I was just like, I was kind of view of the situation i don't i've already heard aaron's and i was just like i was kind of pissed at the show for like literally to like she was talking they wanted us to know

that marissa had something to say but they were like no you're not going to get to hear that we're not going to get to hear i didn't catch that yeah what part was this it was earlier in the episode like aaron and marissa's like kind of like what, Erin? Yeah. And Marissa was responding to Erin, and they literally just turned. She was probably like, oh. You hear her go, oh. She's probably like, that's stupid. Yeah. She's probably like, this is dumb.

This is a waste of your energy. Yeah. She's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, you're like, no way. No, this is serious. This is serious. So Ivan, before this episode came came out tweeted and posted on his Instagram how uh whoever gets his first podcast interview post Bachelor in Paradise is going to be receiving

a lot of tea and so obviously I got a lot of people sending me his tweets and his DMs a lot of podcasts are like I got you like i would love i i hope i'm lucky enough to be the one i'd love to have ivan on again um he he knows that i would be happy to have him on we'll see if it happens some things uh are are out of my control in terms of uh if like i don't have a relationship i have a relationship. I have a relationship with the show. Yeah. But I'm not connected to the show. And they're good to me as long as it doesn't interfere with things that they're trying to accomplish.

Totally. So we'll see if I'm lucky enough to get out. If you get out. I feel like Ivan might have tweeted that out in preparation for, like, us talking about what we just saw. Yeah. Maybe. Because Ivan's clearly smart. He's calculated. I want to know what he's going to say. in preparation for like us talking about what we just saw yeah it maybe is because i was clearly smart he's calculated i want to know what he's gonna say that to see if we like to like so that we wouldn't talk shit about him so everyone who's hosting a bachelor recap who's trying to get ivan

on their podcast is like well let's not talk shit about ivan because like i want him we need to know and we need to know what he's going to say. What if it contradicts everything that we say? Maybe. Well, here's the thing. As we talk about on this podcast, we're responding to what we saw. We acknowledge there's an edit. There are things that are not aired.

Perfect example, the Marissa thing. We have no idea what she said in that moment. That might have been valuable information. The show chose to not let us hear that. Fine. But what we saw from Ivan is, first off, like, you know, he made the moves on Chelsea.

Chelsea seemed to really like it. Aaron had a big problem with it. And Ivan's big thing was Chelsea wanted to talk to me. Now, we watched this closely. Yeah. We replayed it like three times, guys. And it's interesting because I'm really curious of what Ivan has to say. What I've always liked about Ivan, and I'd say the same thing about the two of you,

is that what I really like from people who go on the show is they can recognize it's a TV show. That's fine. Things don't have to be mutually exclusive. They want to go on. They enjoy it when they do go on. Yeah. But they don't need it. And they're not afraid of saying and doing anything just to be liked.

And like, I think, you know, you two went on The Bachelor, you opted not to go on Bachelor in Paradise, not because it was, you're above it. But as you said, I wasn't interested in anyone. So I chose not to go. I have other things going on. Who knows what holds the future. And I've always seen Ivan as someone who's like, he's still working. He's still like an aeronautical engineer. Yeah. He, I don't think Ivan is afraid of being disliked. I think he likes to be liked, as I do, like anyone does. But i don't think ivan is afraid of being disliked i think he likes to be liked as i do like anyone does but i don't think he's afraid of it and that's what i've always thought of him at this point what we saw is it seems like he's gotten himself caught in a little bit of a lie at least that's how it's presented you know i was like chelsea wanted to talk to me

quick montage to like the show being like, Ivan's a liar. Yeah, that's a good point. Now, interestingly enough, Ivan said, Chelsea wanted to talk to me. That's what we saw. I have my notes. I have my notes. Bring out the notes, kid. Okay.

He said, you're mad that Chelsea wanted to talk to me. What am I supposed to do? Say no to her? Yeah. Keep saying Chelsea wanted to talk to me. And then he says, she asked me to go talk. Okay. That last part is a bit damning for Ivan.

Yeah. Because up until that point, saying Chelsea wanted to talk to me isn't saying Chelsea came up to me, isn't saying Chelsea pulled me or that language. That's true. So it is possible that Ivan was made aware via a third party that Chelsea was interested. You know, clearly this episode, more than any episode in this whole season, and essentially what The Bachelor is,

is it just feels as a very high school essence to it and i actually thought about this last week i'm constantly being asked like what's and i'm sure you you women get this too what's it like to be on the show yeah what's it like to be on the show and i've always i'm always trying to contextualize it to someone who hasn't had that experience and let me know what you women think about my answer and of all the different ways I've tried to answer it. But what it is, I think is for a lot of people, and I'm someone who went into the world, had real feelings for people, right? I've always stood by how I felt in the moment. And what it is, is, and it's like, once you go, it's like an agreement to yourself to say, okay, whatever I've learned in my life so far, whatever's like an agreement to yourself to say, okay, whatever I've learned in my life so far,

whatever like I've had these boyfriends or girlfriends and I toxic this, toxic that, and I've learned we've broken up and now I have some perspective. I'm not going to do that, et cetera, et cetera. And then you learn these things, these tools. And when you go on the show, it's like an agreement to say, fuck all of that. I'm just, if I feel anything, I'm going to call it love, just like I did when I was 16 or 17. If I'm not going to say to myself, okay, like I feel something, but like clearly I don't know them.

I'm just going to like roll with these intense feelings. just going to like roll with these intense feelings and i'm going to everything i've learned about like questioning things and having perspective i'm going to just set that aside and i'll worry about it when i with if and when i get off the show in a relationship and i think that's probably in a very high like again that's it's how we fell in love the first time in high school when we felt that and i think that's what it's like for the in love the first time in high school when we felt that. And I think that's what it's like for the people in the bachelor world. What are your thoughts on that? Well, yeah.

And you're also going on a show where people get engaged at the end of it, too. Like you're going on a show where people fall in love. So even before entering it, you're kind of like, well, there's a chance I might fall in love with this person and then whenever you start feeling those feelings that you felt whenever you were in high school or the first time you fell in love then you're like okay yeah like I'm definitely falling in love with this person like this is how it's supposed to happen or work yes um and then you just get caught like you get swept away you get carried away in the current so I mean for I was like so screwed because I've never really had like a legitimate relationship since high school. So I was like, wow, this is, I think I actually am in love right now because I've never felt that for someone.

So when I started feeling those feelings that maybe I felt for the first time in like sixth grade with my sixth grade boyfriend or whatever like I was like oh my god this is what love is supposed to feel like um so yeah I can completely relate to that I've never thought about it like that but it is like a really intense childhood crush yeah and I'm assuming like when you left the show, like what was your thought process about kind of processing what happened versus removing yourself from the intensity of that world? Did you like have that kind of recognition of like, okay, like I definitely like like the guy, but like that obviously wasn't love or when did you kind of realize that? that obviously wasn't love or when did you kind of realize that yeah um i mean i've talked to like a few people about this and i feel like those first few months like back in reality are really hard for a lot of people like just going back to real life and that those few months were really tough for me because I was just like it's like an emotional hangover like that's how I felt and I mean I had like my parents who like honestly were kind of when I first decided I wanted to go on the show they were like what no um and so when they when i was like watching it back with my family they were like this is a totally different

side of you that we've never seen before because i haven't ever really been so open and vulnerable so i guess so did they and that the did they like to see that side of you like yeah but they were just like i don't know who this is oh okay and i didn't know who it was which is also why i had like that feeling of whoa am i in love because i was like so just well it's it's certainly not therapy let's be clear but it feels like therapy because you're constantly being asked and you're talking about your emotions and feelings so there's a you're like oh this feels good to like kind of just get it out man i've been bottling whatever i just you know we often don't feel safe to just talk about how we're feeling. And it's so welcomed in that atmosphere that it's really easy to lean into.

Yeah. Yeah. I think really when I realized that like that wasn't love was when I got back and I like really started going to therapy and spent some time like on my own obviously just time like away from the show and watching it back and finishing the season but really it was actually going to therapy and being like I just experienced something very crazy that most people have never experienced before and I poured so much of my self into it and as we've talked about like you still oftentimes even if you like pour almost every part of your vulnerable self into it sometimes it comes back and you're like whoa that's not all of me you know you're only

seeing a one-dimensional character and that was like really hard i love that you like got into therapy right after the show i fucked up yeah oh you're not i'm probably still what a forward thinking thing to do um i don't think it's very common for no and they should like everyone who goes that show should immediately yeah this is just my humble opinion dive in to therapy damn it my mom told me she was like come on so either way whatever we saw from ivan he clearly it seems like it seems like he's being he's doing some lying of some sort. I'm anxious to see what Ivan has to say, but let's just work with the information we have.

What do we think about this? Is Ivan, is he being, I guess he's being a little shady? Talking just specifically, does it matter who pulled who? Yeah, the more you said that the more you said like they cut off marisa whatever she was saying and then obviously we did catch ivan and a little and a little lie and again we don't know if someone was like yo chelsea wants to talk to you and he was like all right chelsea do you want to chat she literally said i do and they went to go off for a chat it doesn't really matter. You're there to talk to people. You're there to date people.

What I'm realizing now though is Aaron is also so unreasonable. Like he's such an unreasonable person and he seems so hot-headed that he's just going to take anything to the next level. And then it's like, it just spirals into this whole thing, which is like-

He's not good with his words when he's feeling emotion of any kind no he resorts to calling people telling people that they have issues and they're yes he's immoral and yeah they're i don't even know what else but this goes back to like how emotionally intense that environment is is that like maybe he's not as hot-headed in real life, but even like what we saw with Riley talking to Ivan about like going to what happened at the hotel, like he was so angry about it in the moment. And I'm sure he looks back now and he was like,

why was I even that mad about it? What I kind of liked about that moment, it was one, as a loyal person, I love someone who's willing to have their friends back. Interestingly enough, and I'm obviously a big fan of Riley, and right off the bat when Riley had Ivan's back, I'm like, that's all I need to know, whose side I need to be on. What does Riley think? However, it was really fascinating fascinating and we'll get into like the ivan sneaking out but whether i like riley was clearly like weirdly intense and like earnest about like

this like this sneaking out is so ridiculous but and the point i want to make is regardless i like that when it comes to like the idea of loyalty in life and friends is that as you get older, you realize that, well, you always want your friends back. Sometimes you had their back for the wrong reasons. Because as an adult, you're just like, man, fuck, you were wrong. Like, what the fuck? And I had your back. Yeah, I feel that though.

And you saw that with Riley, which was kind of fascinating where it's just like, I wanted like, bro, like you let me down and I'd do anything for you, but like, what the fuck? I had this thought whenever I was watching this. James, I think James says in an interview, like, yeah, like Aaron's my bro. Like I've got his back whether he's wrong or right. And then in that moment, I was like, there's like a lot of toxic masculinity going on in this show

because you shouldn't have someone's back if they're wrong or right. I think Riley was so disappointed because he wants to hold ivan accountable so he was so disappointed because he went to bat for him and then goes bro you fucked up but that was all about accountability whenever james was like if you're wrong or right i'm gonna have your back no matter what it's like uh no you do have to hold your friends accountable to a certain extent and to let him just go off on a rampage like that it's like yeah and that's why i like seeing it because like riley never said that what right you saw riley having his boy back because he was like i i'm gonna advocate like you know this is an ivan versus aaron situation so riley must be thinking like

i'm gonna level-headed and he's an aaron just like and when you saw riley regardless of how ridiculous we think that all was you saw riley think that ivan was wrong and he backtracked and called his boy out yeah i like that as opposed to the james being like right or wrong man i like we're i'm gonna go for it and yeah, you're right. There is some toxic masculinity energy. And, you know, if nothing else, it's just incredibly immature. Yeah. Yeah. I like James.

He seems sweet. And I'm not a fan of Aaron's character, but they both seem on the very immature side emotionally of their age. Right. It feels like. They need Bennett's book. Oh. An Emotional Maturity. Oh, oh my god nice callback kit wow look at me with the trivia that is hilarious wells comes up and you know uh plays enforcer

we all agreed this whole thing was super weird fucking oh my god it was so forced in the principal's office yeah and it was like like the camp counselor It was like he was in the principal's office. It was like the camp counselor. It was like summer camp. Camp counselor. They did something wrong. And it was, again, it's so hyperbolic. It's a show. I'm pretty sure I feel like this was the show punishing Ivan.

And this will be interesting. It'll be interesting to hear Ivan's perspective because I love my show people. I love my like my show people love you know my producer friends but they do not like people sneaking out and going outside the rules as as riley calls it the system the system bro that was and you know and they you know they're there to make a tv show and they can't make a tv show when they can't film you doing whatever it is that you want to do. So like that's frustrating to them. They don't like that. So like, but in reality, these are just two adults saying like, fuck it.

Kit, you made an interesting point. You can make an argument while we were watching this. You said you can make an argument. That was Ivan literally looking for a connection, like being sincere. Yeah. that was Ivan literally looking for a connection, like being sincere. Yeah. I mean, I think like a lot of people were kind of angry because he's going around the system. The point of this system is to fall in love

at the end of the day. And he- According to everyone on the beach in the show. Yes. Yeah. They're telling us this. This is why we're here. The point of this process or the system or whatever you want to call it is for people to fall in love

at the end of the day yeah and you know though ivan kind of went around the rules of the show world by leaving his hotel room at the same time, I think that was him trying to go make a connection that he really didn't want to regret missing. If you went home. Yeah. And, and the system, the structure of the show is,

you know, the producers deciding who walks down when. Right. It's also like, you're going to regret not doing something. You're going to regret not saying this. Like that's one of the biggest takeaways was like, well, you not doing something you're gonna regret not saying this like that's one of the biggest takeaways was like well you better tell him you love him right now well you better go get that girl back right now or else you're gonna regret it and i think

ivan was literally like if i don't do this right now i'm gonna regret this for the rest of my life had we seen chris harrison or wells now or any of the guest producers say some version of not a lot of time here take advantage of the time that you have there are really no that we've heard people reference there are no rules there's guidelines like this is the show on like whether it's this season or seasons before tell us that there's actually no rules there's just like and honestly if you're really here for love go out like what they do emphasize is not enough time and bold moves yeah and yet now we're hearing the opposite nope not not bold moves interestingly enough i thought it was kind of fascinating the show decided to air Ivan saying, Ivan was very clear.

A producer was in my room. They left their phone unlocked. And what was unlocked is a basically list of the names and room numbers of the potential guests. That could just be a coincidence or an accident, or that could be people, you know, conveniently leaving. And as we, you know, people will ask, you know, the producers, blah, blah, blah, you know. Yeah. They often get too much credit. But what they do, again, is create situations for vulnerable people to act out of. Yes.

And was this a situation where, was this a producer creating a situation to see if, was this bait? Well, when we were watching it, Brie said something. She goes, Ivan was so desperate in that moment. And like watching everything that played out on the beach after, I was like, he really was just so desperate. Like that's how it felt. And it brought me back. Like I understand how he was feeling in that moment where it's just like I will do anything at because time is short and you know you got to make bold moves and you're

there for love and whatever and like in that moment he was probably thinking to himself if I don't do this now like I could lose the woman of my dreams. You know, literally. You're right. She'd walk away forever. And I'm glad you pointed that out because, you know, we like to tease and we will criticize, but we know having all been in there, sometimes when we're talking to people who haven't, like if you're being really honest with people, like I love that you said that because, you know, and I've said this like whether like andy or

caitlin i don't think of them as exes it's not the same but i also don't say i've like i i've when i said what i said in that world yeah i believed it yes yes i can be out of that role now and go okay well that was but either way i believed what i said in the moment i like right you acknowledge that too, Kit, right? In terms of like, I'm not going to run and say, I didn't feel that or I was faking it. I just realized it wasn't what I thought it was in that moment. And so right or wrong with Ivan,

what you're seeing is him being like, this episode was clear. Everyone is so in it. They're so in this. And we're watching it being like you guys are being ridiculous this is why do you guys care about these dumb and silly things and it's because i think they're just they're like three weeks in they're just so kind of just in it you also have no idea how your experience is going to go so at that point they're in a position where they're like i came here thinking i was gonna all of these relationships are going to come to fruition ivan

was like hitting it off with several people on the beach so then he found himself in a moment where he's like holy shit engagements are like right around the corner they're happening in a few days and i don't have any like i'm not in a relationship anymore and someone who i know or i think it might be here you know i'm gonna do whatever it takes to find them and have that relationship come to fruition but again like if you were outside of the quote-unquote system you would think to yourself like there's only a few days until i get engaged why am i even trying like why don't i just leave yeah it's intensity the intensity yeah because it is was it alexa who was this girl alexa alexa ivan claims that this was the woman he's kind of been waiting for the whole time yeah

so yeah and and also there's an element of and we talked a lot about this i you know with justin long when him and his brother were on christian there is a self-awareness of your status when you go on. Like even if you went, you know, you knew you were a fan favorite, Brie. Like Kit, you knew the same. Like you're aware of your, Ivan is self-aware. Ivan knew he came in with an expectation of leaving. People really were rooting for him. And I think he, you even see him kind of acknowledge that.

And I think that plays in to his actions and what comes across as desperation. Yeah. Yeah. He felt like he was like, all these people are rooting for me. Like I have to go in here and like give it everything that I've got. So he's just like making moves. We also don't know. And again, part of the reason why I'd be interested to hear from Ivan, like what if, again, the

phone out on the counter is sus, right? Yeah. And again, I'm shocked the show aired that. The show like aired Ivan saying, they didn't have to air Ivan accusing a producer of leaving their phone in the room unlocked with room numbers on. But they chose to air that, fine. And yes, like it is sus.

And why wouldn't to bring it all home is like, why wouldn't Ivan do that? He showed up. He's been waiting for this one girl for whatever reason. The producers chose not to bring her down. He's just like playing musical chairs with all these different people. He has a night alone the the room his room was there it's like oh she's in room 409 okay i'm gonna knock on her door yeah and like have i have all night to talk to her wait can i can i also say it probably felt like fate to him

in that moment like you're like you're literally searching for anything. You're searching for a sign. Give me anything. And then you're like, this was meant to be. I have to act on this right now. Yeah, that's an excellent point. That's what the rose ceremony is for. Yeah. And for all we know, that's what I was going to say. For all we know, he went, thank you, Natalie.

He could have gone, like that night where they're like the storm, the danger storm that might kill everybody, according to them. Ivan might be like, hey, listen, guys, I'm checked out. Yeah. And all of a sudden they're like, oh, oh.

And then they just leave a phone there. Again, I don't know that that happened. Yeah. Speculation. But it's definitely possible Ivan could be like, hey, guys, I'm just like, I'm not feeling it.

Clearly I'm not connection. Like, honestly, Chelsea, she's cool'm just like, I'm not feeling it. Clearly, I'm not connection. Like, honestly, Chelsea, she's cool. But like, maybe I should just go. And then all of a sudden, conveniently, an unlocked phone is left in their room. The stars aligned. alternative scenarios i wonder if the reactions to ivan doing that were maybe more about something than just him going to meet the girl like maybe i know there's like covid situations and i know there's you know consent there's like a yeah yeah like awareness of consent and stuff like that so maybe it was others so that from a show standpoint like to me you make a good point this is clearly

the show not only punishing ivan for breaking the rules it is a we're going to make an example of ivan because people have snuck out kayla and i. I snuck out when I showed up in New York on Caitlyn's season and we just talked. Caitlyn snuck out and went and talked to Sean, which they kind of made a thing on the show. And then since Paradise, when Corinne went on and they had that situation, they've made, incorporated more rules around like signing from a show legal standpoint. But Ivan and this girl seem to like two adults having a conversation. But you're right. So to me, this is a show.

This is what we saw. What seemed like Wells being the camp counselor lecturing someone. It was so hyperbolic in the sense, it felt like someone in third grade. A hundred percent. Who went and got a, who got like a D on a test. They didn't study. They definitely like meet their potential.

And their parents came at them and said, you're ruining your life. You'll never get into the college that we want you to go to all because a third grader got a D on a spelling test. Right. And the show acted like his life was over. These kind of actions

are going to ruin your life if you keep getting D's in the third grade on the spelling test, right? That's how they treated this situation. And to me, it was the show, anyone watching it who might want to go on the show in the future,

you don't sneak out because we will make it seem like you were breaking the rules or going outside the system and that you're a bad example. It definitely felt like they were trying to it definitely felt like they're trying to make examples out of like you know quote-unquote bad behaviors this season but you also have to understand too like people are going on and wanting to find a genuine connection and however whatever the means are to do that and get there people are willing to do like we're going on a people are putting their lives on hold people are putting their family and friends and you know external relationships on hold like people are genuinely going on the show to be like you know what this is my one-time opportunity i'm going to

do everything that it takes to develop this genuine connection and relationship with this person and let them know that i'm interested and go out of my way to do so and then they kind of get you know you get punished for it because you get there and things are not all what they seem to be right like nothing is exactly and as much as we love to say and i think last week i said something to the effect when we were talking about uh blake and tia it's like wouldn't it be nice to have like have this mature reaction to say hey babe blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that would be nice.

But that also would be boring TV if we got a bunch of adult conversations. Anyway, so the rose ceremony, Ivan recuses himself. Do we have a problem? Because it felt like Ivan said something to the effect of, listen, Chelsea, I know you weren't going to give me the rose. And kind of like almost, I felt like, it felt like he was trying to humble himself in that moment. You're not going to give me a rose. I get it.

No, he said he wouldn't accept a rose. Before that, though, he said, I know you weren't going to give me a rose. But I just want to say, if you did, I wasn't going to accept it because I'm out of it. So you take the opposite. You think that was, he shouldn't have said that. I felt like he was not trying to say anything shady or disrespect Chelsea in any way. I felt like he was trying to say, I've decided to remove myself regardless. Well, I don't know if he had to say it like that.

Is a convenient backtrack to what the accusation is we we now call rose hunting yeah right yeah no he did he definitely like did not have to say that because i mean i think we all know that if he had not been called out by by you know camp counselor well wells um he would have he probably would have tried to stay a better yeah a better thing ivan should have just said hey guys again i'm sorry if i you know i'm i'm realizing now i'm not making the best decisions regardless and i should go yeah and then just left it at that he didn't have to like that's his it was his ego wanting to say i would have turned it down well like you know maybe not maybe not his ego but i think in that moment given all the information that he had and he

you know he was like okay you know what i'm not myself i'm i actually i realized that i am acting like out of character a little bit in that moment i think he used that to justify like why i would have why i would have turned your rose down like he was like you know what i you know was acting out of character i'm not really with it mentally so therefore i would not have accepted your rose which like we know that's not true but he had he was using the information that was pointed out to him you think he was lying you think you would have accepted the rose totally i think he would have accepted the rose too why not to give himself another opportunity to be with alexa at the end yeah of course yeah i would have unless the show was just like you gotta go yeah but then i just feel like it's so like it just didn't need to be Like, I wouldn't accept your rose if you gave it to me.

Yeah. It was a little bit of a, I need, I just, it was that one thing that we do where I like, you say it and you're like, I shouldn't, I didn't need to say that. Yeah. No. I mean, he also said something a little bit, a little bit problematic or off-putting rather to Chelsea whenever they were having that conversation where she was confronting him like well did you say that i pulled you

he goes you know he was like you know you're you know you're cool like you know you're attractive yeah and i did not like that he she he was like yeah he just i you know you're cool yeah you know it like i just don't think it's a compliment it's not yeah it's dismissive almost to say well you should know that I like you because you're pretty essentially what he said I'm paraphrasing but that's what he said

you should know that I like you because you're pretty huh? what the fuck does that mean? like no I don't need to know there was a lot of that this episode kenny and mari being like i don't don't know what it is i can't articulate anything please don't ask me to be specific yeah but i like you like but it's because they actually haven't known each other for that long yeah i mean chelsea even says chelsea does the same thing when she

gives the rose to erin she goes there's this something that's drawing me to you no idea what it is that was kind of a dig though that was like that was hilarious yeah but i'm like loving these like she's like it's like they and again maybe, not to the degree that Brendan did it to Natasha. Yeah. So many people, because the way the show is set up, they know, they're literally told people are going to arrive. Don't know who's going to arrive. Don't get, don't, don't leave yet because keep, keep trying to get here because we don't know. And so there's these constant like vagueness of trying not to say too much, but saying just enough to a valid.

Everyone's trying to validate their decision in the moment, but hedge their bet to not have to own that choice. So like. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I didn't think about that either. But at the same time, it's like, well, don't you want your connection to be a little bit stronger that you don't care if you like mess up and say that you like them too much?

Totally. And I feel like that kind of is like, I mean, I think Kenny and Mari have kind of dealt with that all season where they have been so open to each other and have really expressed that they're falling in love and stuff like that but at the end of the day they did have a lot of you know mix-ups in the relationship especially in the beginning like with demi and with mari saying she wanted to go on other dates and stuff like that like and i feel like they've recovered from those things. So it just goes to show that you can be open and be a little bit more, like let yourself fall in love in that way

without getting super roasted for it later if you decide to kind of explore other things. Well, I totally agree with the fact that people could be a lot more honest about their feelings and not look bad, but they're not being honest because they're so afraid of how they might look. They're just being super vague and super indecisive. Yeah. And I think they could be a lot more honest and real with their feelings and actually be quite liked for it.

It would be refreshing. But I think easier said than done for a lot of the people there to express how they actually feel. And whether that's because they're afraid to say it or they don't feel it, it's unclear. because they're afraid to say it or they don't feel it it's unclear well that brings us to the noah and abigail situation because i think that noah is someone who was so open and honest he was like i like you you know what is going on here and she didn't really have anything to say to him in that first moment when he said that yeah but then during the prom he's sitting there and he's like he was like he ended things but in a way that like didn't really acknowledge the previous conversation when he was so vulnerable and like she didn't seem to share

the same thought process as he he was in that moment but then during the prom he was like he didn't like talk about that yeah yeah that's a great point he got more hyperbolic and maybe not or vague like he said well i just realized you're not my person and you're you know the classic there's so many great things about you but but maybe you're not great for me. Kind of just very platitude-y kind of cliche things you say to someone that you're like, you know. So people say that we talk, obviously, I talk a lot about relationships on my show. And people always say things like, well, I just don't understand why would they say this to me and also break up because when they break up they'll say things like you're just so great you're great i love everything about you but we shouldn't date and the person being broken up with is always

thinking all they're hearing is they said they love everything about me they said they literally said i was great why wouldn't you want to be with someone great right so like that's the kind of the juxtaposition but you're right kit because if noah wanted to be truly honest with his feelings it would have made a lot more sense if you said listen i i told you how i felt you literally said nothing and abigail's like because abigail says to noah you're the one who's trying to get me to open up you're the one who's trying to get me to open up. You're the one who's trying to express yourself. And then all of a sudden, like, you do. And then like 24 hours later, you're backtracking already. Right.

Which is a valid counterpoint that Abigail says based off of all the platitudes that Noah says to her. But if Noah would have just said, listen, like, I opened up to you. You said literally nothing to me. And I realized that maybe it feels like, I don't know. I don't want to speak for you, but it feels like I'm the ones pulling you and I'm pulling you and I'm pulling you. And I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to like, I'm the one constantly getting us and moving us along. And that's just how it feels to me. And maybe we're just, you know,

maybe our love languages are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And gotten specific with why he was feeling the way he did, that would have made a lot more sense. But instead it was just more like, you're not my person. I know. I feel like he said that because he knew in that moment our relationship is not going to work in this environment it's not happening for us here and so he was kind of just saying something so that they could be done in

that environment like it was something where she couldn't say anything to it that would save their relationship. So you're saying he intentionally ended the relationship there so that way he could just come to a halt and then maybe they pick back up. Yeah, I think that's what it was about because if let's say he did say, I feel as though I'm being so vulnerable and you maybe don't feel the same way

or you're not giving me anything in return. Maybe she would have been like, well, I do. I am falling in love with you. And like, I do want to be here with you. And he didn't want her to say that, you think. And I think why wouldn't he give her that option you know if he wanted that yeah that's a good excellent point yeah yeah he didn't want he had decided he was like this is we've got to continue this on the outside yeah

that's an excellent point you don't want to give someone the window if you don't want them walking you know going through it so to speak very smart that's giving no a lot of credit i don't think i don't know as a dummy at all yeah i mean i don't get i mean you at the end of the day too like i think we can acknowledge this from being you know very um i don't know in tune with our feelings and stuff and such but like you can acknowledge a certain extent like if I want to kind of like save this relationship or if I want to like salvage what's been going on here you do maybe he had like a moment where he was like okay this is what we need to do to continue our relationship where we left off on a good note outside of this like

I could understand that I could totally understand like you want to like save or salvage whatever you have so you think the abigail and noah story could be continuing as we speak i mean i would like i would hope so any any rumors you guys i mean aren't what do you i've not heard any rumors but I would hope that you know they were both at GovBall I never saw them together that's very a great point

now is that them going out of their way well we don't know backtracking a little bit to Mari and Kenny I know Natalie and I don't disagree has zero interest in this love story ouch

where how do you two feel about are you in invested in the Kenny and Mari love story or not so much you had something really quite funny to say when you were watching it i was wondering if you remember and if you're willing to say it

oh no what did i say was it me was it nice it was i'm the number one fan it ended up being kind of nice with a you know it's like a kind of, kind of, they're so corny. No, it's cute. It's cute, yeah. I think that they just, they're so in deep together at this point that, like, I think even when Kenny is having this moment where he's like, whoa, I don't know. Like, should we take a step back or whatever? I think he's genuinely thinking to himself, oh, my God, I'm so scared.

Like, because I do love her so much. And we are one of the strongest couples here. And, like, he's probably thinking to himself, oh, my God, I have three days to propose. No, this is not into kenny and marie well well it's just kind of fascinating because they they it's it feels like again from what they're airing that every like marie's like uh you know i woke up or that was kenny i woke up today and then marie's like we needed to have a talk and it's like it's like kenny and marie only have two different kinds of conversations.

One is they break up and the other is they get back together. That's the only thing they ever talk about is breaking up and getting back together. That's how it feels like, what it feels like. And yet, and then all of a sudden, insert Mari, last episode started saying, you know, this past two episodes, it's clearly the show or the cast whatever whether it's coming from the pressure the cast feels on themselves again the cast is hyper aware they know there's an expectation of engagement i've always said this is the show the i've never i was never pressured ever to get engaged from the show from producers but i always felt pressure does that make sense

yeah you know like you you feel that the pressure's there it's lingering yeah but no one's like you have to do this ever like well yeah because it's said you know there's an engagement around the corner there's an engagement around the corner so then you start to be like oh yeah shit and then you feel that kind of energy and then one other person like so you have two people like having like a real excitement for each other yeah and then one of them's like but like i guess like engagement and even if the other person is like well wait that's that's insane yeah the other person will take it as like wait i don't you don't like me enough so that pressure of like all of a sudden the conversation it's like should we move in together and even though you're like you're totally not ready all of a sudden couples will be like

well maybe we should break up you're like well wait maybe i'm just not ready to live with you yet yeah all or nothing mentality which i kind of from from watching it i feel as though mari is really the one that has like the all or nothing mentality and And Kenny's kind of like, oh, should we see what this turns into? That's a great point, right? Because Mari's giving off the energy. I've been a fan of Kenny. But Mari's giving off the energy like in life where she has decided she likes him.

Yeah. And even if Kenny ends up like having sex with 10 more people, she'll find a way to forgive him because she has decided I'm in. And it's kind of like, Mari, like, you know, like what exactly do you, I just don't like that Mari isn't saying anything to Kenny when Kenny says things like, I don't know what it is.

Yeah. But I like you and she's just like oh my god that's the most romantic thing i've ever heard i don't know what it is i can't say anything specifically nothing not one thing and i wish mario would have been like you know it'd be just really nice if you could just like say one specific thing that you like about me like just anything you know where's the pressure no there's the pressure to figure it out yeah and she's just get some serious answers she just wants kenny to say i like you back yeah but i feel like the serious the pressure to give the serious answers is kind of what's starting to become a problem because she is giving off the energy.

Like I want to be with, like, this is my person. Yeah. I want to be with this person forever. And she's, that's the energy that she's giving off regardless of what he's giving her, which doesn't seem like a lot from what we've seen.

Right. But yeah, I just think he's he's kind of like oh mate like i do like this person and i do want to see where this goes but she's very much like this is my person well yeah and is it one of those things too where it's like if someone doesn't want to get engaged at the end and the other person's very offended by it they're like well you don't want to be with me or like i guess you also do have to similarly to how we go on the show how we went on our season you have to be prepared to answer the question of well what does this engagement mean to you like that's always what i asked myself a great question

asked myself in the show or like would ask the person is like or that was actually okay that's what we weren't on the same page about because going into paradise i think you have to be you have to ask yourself what does this engagement for us mean yeah it's something that the show chooses not to have it be a discussion point of course to say whether that actually does happen yeah i would be willing to bet most people aren't asking that question i think some people might right but the show is choosing not to like have that be a dialogue what does this actually mean to you we saw a bunch of like could we work in the real world and then fast forward to like you know joe and serena like again who knows what

is all said we saw probably a very short segment of their conversation. But it does make Joe look a little silly, in my opinion, because Joe fell in love with Kendall, had a real relationship with Kendall, and it's been hammered home to us that they broke up because of a long-distance problem. Fast forward to Serena and Joe having the same conversation and without any specific callback to joe's past relationship they recognize that it's a potential issue

and they're like well we need to figure this out and their plan according to what was aired was i guess we'll have to like visit and then we'll figure it out plant so they're and then joe goes well now we have and now we have a plan. And apparently that plan is we're going to fly and figure it out. Yeah. I'm pretty sure he had the same plan with Kendall. Yeah. You know, and it's entirely possible that Serena was more specific

and she could have said, I've always wanted to live in Chicago. I'm totally down to move. It wasn't aired. Yeah. And if that wasn't said, I'm just wondering, why would Joe feel any more confident in this plan as opposed to someone else? But you're right. I mean, you're right.

But had Serena said that, then i would be like oh okay well click boom yeah well what i heard from her like before going on paradise just because she obviously doesn't really i mean she's from canada she still lives there so talking to her her about like what if she did meet somebody who was based in the u.s and stuff and she definitely from what i understand is more flexible with where she lives and i think that the kendall and joe thing is it it was just so rigid she was like i'm not moving for anyone yeah i'm not moving for a guy. That's my understanding too. So she's staying put, whereas Serena, like she didn't know where she would end up or I'm sure she still loves being near her family

and stuff like that. But I think she was more like, well, if I was really in love and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with someone, I would be willing to make it work and try living in different places. Whereas Kendall was just like, I'm not even going to try. Yeah. I mean, there are also these little like, I don't even know what the word is, but like specifics about the show. Whenever cast apply for the show and come on the show,

I will never be able to understand because it's like all of like they're all the reality just goes out of out of the window because you apply for a show to meet people from around the from around the around the continent, from around the country. Like there's a chance that you guys are going to end up at complete polar opposites of the country. So someone has to be willing to budge if you're going to want like if you want to make something work so to go on a show where everyone's going to be from all over the place you know it's like um you have to be you have someone has to be willing to to make the move totally i guess i just wish whether maybe you know maybe serena didn't get that specific and it's fine just for for joe's sake if i'm joe i would have wanted that specific thing to be mentioned. It's true.

Because otherwise it just looks like. It could end up the same way. Like he's not getting the answers he should want to validate this legitimate concern. It's true. It's real simple. Hey, my last relationship, there was no movement. There was no flexibility at all. I'm flexible to a certain degree.

But I don't want to move to LA. I want to stay in the Midwest. I don't know what Joe's non-negotiables are. But it would have been nice to hear some actual specificity around what those are as opposed to, we'll it out right have them both being like what a great plan glad we figured that out i feel so much better about us yeah because that's how they acted and they literally said nothing and it's just like yeah either yeah i i don't know and i don't know why they wouldn't have aired that if they said that i mean it would seem like a normal thing but i don't know that That's true. Whatever.

So in comes, we got some more late arrivals. We got McKenna and we have... Anna. Anna. I quite liked, I know Anna had a really tough time on your season. She definitely was 100% in the wrong with kind of the rumors that she created and and damaging she certainly paid the price when it came to bachelor nation and she showed up humbled um owning her mistakes uh and uh seeming like you're trying to make the and i i i liked anna this episode. Yeah. And my favorite Paradise couple this season is currently Anna and James.

They make sense to me. One date, one date. It seemed really genuine. Like they had a cute flirtatious connection right off the bat. And having James been on the show now for several episodes, it felt like refreshing from everything that we've seen.

The fact that James is still there is like... Remarkable. Remarkable. It really is. Like, he deserves a gold medal. But I will agree, like, their chemistry on that date felt really real and very... I felt like they could have met, like the real world they could have met in the real world and hit it off yeah who gives a shit what we think

maybe they have you never know maybe they have and like it doesn't you don't have to look good together to be a cute couple in fact you should definitely not find love based on how you think you look or other people think you look yeah you. You know, or if it makes sense to anyone else. Like, Joe and Serena on face value don't necessarily make sense to me. They might be the best, greatest love story in Bachelor Nation. We'll find out. Yeah. But, like, yes, James and Anna, it's just like, I get this.

Like, I like it. I love. They seem to be on each other's level. They seem to be a genuine interest. She's kind of, you know, got some good looking. Blondes. Blondes. Just like whatever.

Hanging out. You know, not overly, you know. I haven't seen that in a while. They just want to have some friends to have each other's backs. And it's like, it's fine. Yeah. You know. I felt it.

Yeah. I thought it was really refreshing. Yeah. I don't know. I thought it was interesting that Anna was talking about James making her feel safer about the snakes. But when they showed her, she was still covered in chocolate. So is that just like an editing decision of the show?

Like what would make sense? Because it doesn't make sense that Anna was talking about James being like, he just makes me feel safe rolling around in cinnamon and chocolate. But maybe they did the snakes first and the chocolate second. And for whatever reason, they flipped it in the edit. But I feel like girls say guys make them feel safe, like, as just a general compliment. Yeah. Like, I feel safe when i'm with him yeah huh maybe meanwhile i thought that was a bit of a dig from becca an unnecessary dig from becca where she says

anna would be open to any connection because she's so late and i'm thinking you're all have been open to any connection yeah to get to next week yeah i don't know it's like a weird it was like a weird it was also kind of a dig to james too yeah like she's just gonna go for him because he's the last one left yeah which to me i mean was like that maybe that was true but i mean they had they literally hit it off like it looked like they hit it off yeah and she's saying this to tia to like try to make tia feel better all while tia is just pretending to even give a shit about james like this whole like you know tia was clearly into blake whatever weird fight they had james gave her a block of wood tia's love language

is clearly like gifts and acts of service because she goes on about like the flower what did what did aaron get like what did aaron do he gave her something literally any piece of lint off the floor and say tia i made this for you apparently t is going to light up like it's all like her reaction to the dumbest things about like as long as it's something if you say this reminded me of you and it's and i've made it for you done she's like yes that's the that's the key to tia's heart yeah some for some people it is acts of or get yeah gifts but like she clearly is not into james and so i love that tia's just like listen he i i i kind of floated around. I went on some dates. James has the right to do this. Yeah.

But she's like pretending to care. Like you're clearly not. You don't like him. It's fine. Just say you don't. You sent the guy home you did like because he reminded you of every fuck boy you've ever dated before.

Yeah. Like, damn. But I will say like, Anna and James's makeout in that hot tub, that was like, that was on the level of Tia and Blake's makeout

that she got the fanny flutters for. So, like, I think that that is a way better match. Her and James, Tia and James have never had a makeout that steamy. Thank you. No.

Again, James and Anna, it's my favorite batch. Thank you. No. No, again, James and Anna, it's my favorite Bachelor appearance. They feel like friends. Okay. Wait, do we know if they're still, are they still together? I have no idea. I don't know. I didn't even know they were gonna date. So, this is all news to me. I'm rooting. I will be

sad if I find out that James and Anna aren't still talking. I'm being serious. The connection actually looked genuine. Like, either James is really aren't still talking. I'm being serious. The connection actually looked genuine. Like either James is really freaking good at acting. I don't know. I do not know. Or I think he really liked Anna. He liked what he saw in that moment.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. But it also just goes to show that everything you saw before that, even James with Tia was like, here's a block of wood. Can I stick around and when he talked to anna he seemed like oh my god like i was so glad you're you're here yeah i think you what you saw from james is like i got here i was like one of the first arrivals i wish you were too yeah that was the kind of energy James was bringing to his conversations with Anna. That was really, okay, you're really swaying me right now. That's really sweet.

He was very, like, he was just so, he was so open. He was so open with her. He lit up a little bit. So open to, like, getting to know her. And what's interesting about that is, like. I hope they don't have a bad breakup, man, because they are cute. Which was interesting is that this whole season we've been kind of

you know we've liked James you don't you haven't seen any charisma or confidence you've seen some awkwardness and maybe that is

just because he's been faking it he's not into any of these women either who aren't into him and it's just a bunch of people being like pretending

to give a shit and then when you see James as someone he seems to be sincerely into i'm not saying he's casanova yeah but he looked a little bit more like okay yeah james get yours yeah that's what i'm kind of hoping happens for some of these guys on the beach like aaron is still around like he's just kind of like taking you know or trying to be open to his connections but no one has really come in to like

spark his interest and then we have mckenna who comes in i think ed's been the butt of some jokes in the past couple seasons he you know he very much has a club promoter vibe to him terrifying he does i can't believe you just said that am i do we disagree no it's just like triggering me back to like my first fake id and the club promoter yeah ed looks like he's a club promoter is he a club promoter i have no idea i think he knows if he's not one or hasn't ever been he knows a lot of club promoters oh well you know what i think i is he in sales i don't know because he lives in miami i think okay he did have a bit of a glow up i will say i think yeah he worked out good but i only want to like say that because i thought

i loved ed this episode i love that he went down there McKenna is crying and um and doing her thing and he comes down and he was just like hey man like I love the perspective that Ed brought to it it's like whatever I don't even know if we like each other let's just go have some fun we're here who knows what could happen right you know like fuck it that's really optimistic choice you're not my first choice but we're two like good-looking people and let's just we're on the beach let's have fun have some fun and i i thought ed was a real sweet that sweet you know sweet moment for him and whatever his club promoting days are if they're behind him you know i just want to give him props for you know being a

gentleman and a charmer and making someone feel better. And also, by the way, I just find it hysterical when McKenna's crying. If you haven't been to this little beach area, they were literally 10 feet away just watching McKenna. It was like, talking about clubs, it was like they were all at the DJ booth and McKenna was right right below the DJ booth,

sitting there crying and they're all just watching her. Just watching her. Talking about her. Talking about her. And that's literally 10, 15 feet away. And I was just like, you guys,

you're just literally watching and talking about her. And like, good for Ed for going down and just like, why none of the women, no one went and talked to her I don't know that's a real gentleman yeah so props to him we totally forgot to bring this up I know we've already beat on Aaron a lot but like can we talk about Aaron and Chelsea's kiss right after

oh my god oh my god well it seemed clear to me that the only thing Aaron was focused on was where Ivan was, and he kissed Chelsea to Peacock. Yeah. She wasn't even looking at him when he swooped around, went in for the kiss. That was like a two-second kiss. Quit the kiss. Says, let's go get a drink drink let's go to the bar or

something like that and as he's saying that he looks directly over at ivan yeah i've never seen such an abrupt pull away from a makeout yeah short of like you being 16 and your parents yelling at you being like what are you doing you're trying to write like that's how abrupt aaron was when he ended kissing chelsea and i was actually floored that chelsea wasn't a fat like if i was making out with someone and they just stopped and looked away they just like but it was like a two second kiss it was a two second kiss i also feel like maybe they're both in this situation where they're like we think we're we think both of you each other's hot like well it's chelsea said i mean there's something that's wrong she's like whatever it is so like whatever whatever it is i'm still here i'm still getting this right and then

you know we got prom the prom thing you know props the art department beautifully shot little you know hey very cute how apropos for an environment that feels like high school to have a high school prom like everyone's like yeah i could do this i've been doing this for three weeks like yeah i'm here for this they did look like they were really enjoying it too and that was cute you know 80s prom i'm it's fun it's a fun theme like i would and they had the full costumes if i could be in a full costume with the hair and makeup all of it so fun yeah it's cute aaron pulls tia chelsea says i would never disrespect aaron like that despite chelsea literally doing the same thing to aaron with ivan that aaron is now doing to her some lack of self-awareness on chelsea's part but like yeah whatever i guess

they could totally i mean they totally haven't communicated in their relationship at all no there's no relationship yeah there's really again i think they both just think they're both really really hot and they're just you know yeah but when things don't go their way they're both getting mad at the other person and showing no kind of like oh I did that shit yeah that's yeah I thought the Tia make

out that whole thing like him pulling her that was so just out of left field I was like where did this come from and Tia like went for it she like took her legs and wrapped it around them and like it was a steamy make there's been two steamy makeouts this episode anna and james anna and james and then aaron and tia and tia was like what he gave me a corset i'm in a corsage croissant croissant whatever the fuck it is doesn't matter

it literally could have been oh my god that was hilarious the the corsage the role the corsage played in this in this date was fucking crazy yeah because everyone was literally like he like was wearing like he could have been wearing anything it's like oh you know what i'm wearing like this necklace here you go i i gave this to you but it's like it was just a part of his costume and he's like here i say here i want you to have i wanted a what do i got yeah oh my god you know maybe because it was a whole combination of the show and the prom date, but they walked back in. Yeah.

And it just, it literally reminded me, it was like a flashback to literally being in high school where you're at a dance. Oh my God. And you just like have a dance and you're like, hey, can I talk to you? And you're like, do you want to be my girlfriend? Oh my God. You're sweating. Yeah.

And then you come back and you're like hey guys we're in love like yeah tia and aaron came back with that very energy of like holding hands and like kind of presenting like we're a couple now yeah that was so crazy i don't know what's going on anymore it's a free for all what it's such a free for all this episode they were clear everyone is like i think all in they're in it uh either they've brainwashed themselves like this the the intense structure of being off the grid in this environment combination of the show their own expectations of the experience on themselves the trial that they've had to endure. All their perspective is this completely out the door. Who are you rooting for?

Who's your, what relationship do you want to see work? Obviously, Joe and Serena. Joe and Serena. Prom king and prom queen. Yeah, prom king and queen. I want to see if they- A little gag for me. It's like, okay, you get it.

You're the power couple. They are. You got to give, but you also, you have to give people props for being able to go into that environment with all of the obstacles that are thrown at you. Like one of the things that, you know, I've been talking to some of the girls about, you know, because they've, they're in it, they've done it, is that, you know you you start to feel like your relationship that you're in is is validated because of all of the quote-unquote obstacles that you go through like you are you're thrown this and you're thrown that and it's like let's see if we can break this shake up this relationship and then you continue to come you continue to come out of it like okay

phew we made it through well it's interesting you say that because that's why I'm a little more critical of relationships on Paradise. Yeah. Even though those can work because Paradise is more realistic. Yeah, it's really testy. Because how I felt, and I don't know how you women felt on being on The Bachelor, is you spend more time apart than with that person. And you literally are fighting for time. And by the time you get to the end, you literally feel like you've had to fight

all these other people for this one person. And so you're able to justify a lot of your feelings by, there's no way this can't be love for what I've put up with, with what I have accepted, the group dates I've went along with that with what I have accepted, the group dates I've like went along with that were nuts. And I fought for this.

Yeah. And it's so outrageous that to me, it's more easy to believe that people believe what they're saying as opposed to paradise. It's, it's harder for me to believe. Yeah. And, and again, everyone's different because I had, for me, it was comparing that intense to this. Like, you know, the Marissa's of the world, like she, or even Joe,

like Joe had one day on Bachelor set or Bachelorette. So like, I guess his experience was different than say your experience and my experience. So everyone's different. But for me, it just seems a lot more realistic. Totally. The way you described it is how I always felt about being on The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.

But that might be different for, you know, like the Marisas of the world who didn't get the full or D'Andro, whoever like was only on for one or two weeks. Like it's just not, it's not the same. So yeah. So Joe and serena i'm rooting for anna james that's who i want to see i think they're the underdogs but i want i'm i'm rooting for them too marissa and riley marissa and riley are cool i like yeah i do like them i like marissa a lot i think it's a great place to end it. As an outro, should we sing happy birthday to you?

No. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Nick. Happy birthday to you. You guys have great voices. That is the first time I've ever sang on air. And I'm not going to lie.

I think I did well. There were some harmonics. Thank you. Kit, I know you also have a podcast, Ageless. You recorded with your mom. Very great show. Can you tell my audience a little bit about what it is and why they should all give it a listen so my mom and i have a podcast together called ageless and it's really about our very

unique mother-daughter relationship because my mom is like a middle schooler high school or stuck in a mom body and I'm definitely an old soul like so growing up like she was always more of the free spirit and always had a more childlike view on the world and a very positive view on the world and I'm more logical and more of a realist but I think that gives us a unique take on all things fashion and wellness. So that's our main focus there. And you can listen to that anywhere you listen to podcasts. Anywhere.

And it's ageless. Yeah. Check it out, everybody. I love that. Okay, I didn't know you were still doing it, so I need to go follow it to get updates. It's a fun one. Just crushing the podcast game.

And Brie, any updates on you got your love you you are in love i'm in love yeah i'm in a very happy relationship and do you think we'll ever well no because you're in love and hopefully we won't see you back on this show yeah that's that's the hope that's the hope yeah yeah and uh and work is going great work is going great yeah um i am still doing comms and pr so you know getting the chance to exercise that that comms experience a little bit with the show with all this stuff great well i've loved and guys wait quickly just to shout out Brie, because she organized to have a print sent for me that I get so many compliments on from Spacey Studios. It is in the back of pretty much every single one

of What's Kit Cooking episodes, and people freak out for it, and it's amazing. So if you haven't looked. Yeah, if you haven't looked, you should definitely look, Spaceyy studios it was so funny though because kit i imagined it there in your house yeah and then it went up perfectly and now kit does like really cute um what's kit cooking videos and friend great i love it amazing okay you're also active on tiktok you have some great tiktoks me roast me on there not even you i i love how people thought like i was pig i think you're great on tiktok and you're you put out vulnerable

fascinating things kids tiktok had me the one time you literally said why do i do this and i was like, well, I have a point of view. And I feel like those little videos are like, I wish I could say I smoked weed so they could just be like my random little high thoughts that I just put out into the world, but I don't. So it's actually just my random little thoughts. That's almost better. I think that's better. Vulnerability and you just being human.

And I think it's great. Go follow on tiktok she's so good great content uh ladies thank you for coming on you're welcome back anytime truly ladies thanks so much for coming on you were fantastic i wish you nothing but success you're welcome back anytime would love to love to have you on uh thanks guys for listening. Don't forget to send your questions at asknick at castmedia.com. Cast with a K for our Ask Nick episodes. And we are back tomorrow. Or actually, just keep

listening because the episode with Rob Thill is out right now. If you have anxiety, if you like nostalgia, you love fascinating conversations from a thoughtful man, make sure to tune into that episode. And if there is nothing else, we will see you. Well, now we're here.

Keep listening. Bye.