The Viall Files - E330 Ivan Hall Tells All

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

Today we are joined by THE Ivan Hall, from Season 16 of the Bachelorette and this season of Bachelor in Paradise. On this episode, we let Ivan spill the tea on Paradise and explain his side on the show. We dive into talking about Ivan sneaking out to see Alexa after a producer accidentally left behind their phone, revealing that Alexa was staying down the hall from him. We also talk about who Ivan thinks is the worst person on Paradise, Ivan’s interaction with Chelsea, and just how much context got cut from the final versions of episodes. Ivan tweeted that he wanted to spill the tea, and he decided to talk to us! So, we hope you enjoy our conversation with Ivan Hall! “Nick, at this point, I think I’m retired.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. For merch please visit https://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ShipStation: Go to https://www.ShipStation.com and enter code VIALL for a 60-day free trial. Betterhelp: Get 10% off your first month at https://www.betterhelp.com/ViallFiles Headspace: Go to https://www.headspace.com/Viall to get one month free access to the entire meditation library. Philo: Get 25% off your first two months at https://www.Philo.tv/Viall Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @ivanbhall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Vile Files. I am your host, Nick. And do we have an episode for you. The Ivan Hall is with us today. A lot of people have been anticipating this podcast because Ivan tweeted about how much he had to say and how the person who was going to be the recipient of that podcast was going to be fortunate. For whatever reason, Ivan selected us and we are grateful for grateful. Lucky us.

It's an interesting episode. I think Ivan had some warming up to do. Yeah. People should stick around for what's revealed later. Well, certainly because he tweeted about it and posted about it, we were like, you know, we truly dig deep. So we talk a lot about, I guess, other people early on. And then we get more into the specifics about Ivan's journey.

And he definitely delivered when it came to the Chelsea Aaron hotel room phone scandal. Yep. So overall, Ivan delivered. You know, certainly we, you know, well, yeah, I think that's all we have to say. It took him a little, I think he was nervous. Yeah, you won't be disappointed. I think he was nervous early on.

Anyway, we thank Ivan for coming on and hopefully all your burning questions as it relates to Ivan's journey are answered. We, I felt satisfied with his answers and I thought he did a great job. And if you ever doubted Ivan, I don't know if you will after this. Or if you thought you knew what went down,

you might not. He certainly fills in all the gaps. Yep. I guess we'll just let you listen to the episode. If you are in a situationship of any kind, dating troubles, ups and downs, we have a very popular podcast on Mondays called Ask Nick where people write in their dating stories

and we share some perspective. People find it helpful. If you're one of those people and you're tuning in to this podcast for the first time to check out Ivan, be sure to tune in to that. And we are back next week recapping Michelle's premiere of her season.

Very excited about that. And if there's anything else, Remy Bader is our guest next Wednesday. The very wonderful and delightful Remy Bader talking about all things fashion, body positivity, confidence, self-esteem, dating. Really great conversation with Remy Bader talking about all things fashion, body positivity, confidence, self-esteem, dating, really great conversation with Remy. Really enjoyed her.

Real delightful person. You won't want to miss that. And if nothing else, let's just get to Ivan. Ivan, welcome back. Hey, I'm glad to be back, Nick. Glad to be able to set this up. Yeah, I really glad to be back, Nick be the person to share it. So thank you.

And I guess I'll just turn it over to you since you definitely called your shot, so to speak. I guess the people want to hear what you have to say. So I guess my first question is, what was the moment while watching the show that you felt compelled to post that on your social media platforms about wanting to speak your truth oh that's sweet there geez i mean i mean i definitely had to be just because of the whole um you know chelsea airing situation and whatnot um things got heated um some of my actions you know might not have made too much sense to people but you know in in the day it made a lot of sense to me. And, you know, I, I don't know, I really didn't think that too was going to go that viral,

but it definitely did. And, you know, and I definitely chose your podcast because honestly I did like, I did a ton of podcasts after Bachelorette and yours was definitely one that I really enjoyed doing, like talking to you, got to meet you too. So I'm just glad to be back and not really just ready to talk about, you know, talk about everything, you. Thoughts going into this show, how the show went for me, all the craziness at the end with Chelsea, Aaron, Alexa, the hotel. And yeah, just kind of ready to put it all mostly in this one podcast and then just let it be and kind of fall off into the sunset. Well, let's not hold back. Let's not mosey.

Let's just give the people what they want, Ivan. Let's just start, I guess, in the beginning in terms of you mentioned thoughts on going back on Paradise. You seem to me to be, the little bit I know about you, a very thoughtful person. Obviously, we've spent time getting to know you when you first came on about your – a lot of people have careers in this show, Uh, obviously we've spent time getting to know you, um, when you first came on about, uh, you know, your, uh, you know, a lot of people have careers in the show, but it's not as common for

someone say like yourself who, you know, has a career as an engineer and has continued to work in that field. So what was the reason you went back on, uh, Paradise? What were your expectations of the show? And was it a foregone conclusion or is it something that you had to ponder and consider? So yeah, going back to my Bachelorette experience, it was A plus all around. Didn't leave with Taysha, but she ended up with the perfect person. So it worked out. Everything worked out the way it was supposed to work out. And I was very grateful for that experience. You know, after that ends, you know, bachelor in paradise is an option. Um, had to get through Matt season two though. Um, so I was very excited and looked forward to, you know, potentially going on a bachelor

in paradise situation. Obviously it's like, I get to hang out with more of my guy friends again, then there's a ton of women there. So statistically it'll probably be higher chances that I end up leaving with somebody. But then during kind of like Matt's season, there was definitely a little bit of apprehension, I'll say, raised, mostly just because of all the race scandals with Rachel and Chris Harrison. And then I think I got caught up a little bit in it when a lot of headlines were out there saying like, Ivan feel on won't do bachelor in paradise. If Chris Harrison's the host, they twisted my words there. Definitely.

I said I'd be uncomfortable with if he was the host, but I would still do it no matter what, for the most part. So I'm not going to say no matter what, actually, there was a lot of discussion. And I think Brie actually alluded to this a little bit on y'all's podcast last week, where she, we had this whole like black coalition from like matt's season's girls and like from tasia's men and we were trying to like figure out things and like if paradise was going to be a you know a good

option for us to even do so um definitely some apprehension into going with paradise with all that kind of stuff but you know as time we're on I think, you know, that kind of stuff. From my perspective, I wanted to, you know, give the show another chance. I know it worked out well for myself. And, you know, in having talks with, you know, Chris Harrison called me on the phone, had a great conversation with him, talking with the producers and how they wanted to make this season of Paradise different than any other season ever. That, you know, that got me excited again. And, of course, there was a lot of, you know, a ton of women I wanted to meet out there and, you know, potentially leave with somebody. So you said Chris Harrison called you? Is that?

Yeah. Yeah. Like there was, uh, probably not. I mean, I think some people know, like my friends and stuff though, but like, no, yeah. I mean, there was like, cause there was a headline out there. Um, when I did this, one of the shows on E where I said I would be uncomfortable if Chris Harrison was the host and went viral because everybody said ivan's not doing it if chris will be there obviously but that's not what i said exactly but yeah he reached out to me you know um you know and we had a good conversation you know um it was just two grown adults talking about things and um you know it was a good conversation and i i wish him all the best and i was like dude there's no ill will towards you. It's just, you know, as the person who's like

the authoritative figure of the show, it definitely would honestly make me feel uncomfortable at that time based on how things were going. Did you, I mean, obviously he ended up leaving the show. Do you, after that conversation, did he make you feel more comfortable or was your comfort level pretty much the same, but you certainly just respected him reaching out? No yeah i definitely fully respected him reaching out um yeah we had

like a 30-minute conversation he was just trying to pick my mind um um on things and he was just like he just kind of you know was just letting me like tell him whatever he whatever i wanted to and speak openly and then trying to like game plan for the future to a certain degree and whatnot but yeah of course he left um the show or whatever I wish him all the best um but yeah it's just the way things have to play out I guess and I will say I I definitely really enjoyed the host situation this year that was a ton of fun with all the rotating hosts especially Lil Jon that dude was the best out there for sure no they're all great but Lil Jon was a lot of fun he was a ton of fun yeah yeah i enjoyed watching them and i there was something i don't know something about uh little john his range he's got incredible range yeah for sure um both as a host and as a musician

i heard a rumor and maybe you can help clear this up that you gave some very strong consideration to not going on paradise because you were strongly thinking about going on Michelle's season. That's a funny rumor there. I, you know, I will say this. So me being numbers guy, statistically it made the most sense for me to go at paradise. I felt like, cause there's, you know, a lot more options, a lot more women i could date but on paper um just like going into paradise even or thinking about doing michelle season potentially on paper i will say i did feel like michelle would be the best match for me this is without me knowing her at all but um just from the things i've told

producers and like what i was looking for in a you know fiance wife and all that kind of stuff relationship um you know she's like seemingly sweet um or i'm sure she is and um plays basketball love basketball you know athletic all that kind of stuff and um comes from a great family all that kind of stuff so um on paper definitely something i was definitely you know kind of considering but, I was just like at the end of the day, like, I guess the chances are higher if I, if I go to paradise and try dating multiple women though. Was it just something that you were thinking about in your head or were there any conversations you had with the show about possibly going on Michelle season?? I definitely mentioned Michelle to a couple of the producers and never really gained any traction. And I never said like, hey,

I'd prefer to do Michelle's season over Paradise because again, I did prefer to do Paradise over her season for the reasons I stated. But it was just something that I did let them know I was thinking about. You mentioned your numbers, Guy., obviously you're very analytical. I relate to that thought process. It is something, however, I think is used against people who go on the show when they say things like having a strategy, being a numbers guy, thinking about things pragmatically. It seems like the audience in the show sometimes will use that against contestants. So I just want, I'm curious what you think, you know, me people saying that, can you just in general, what do you mean by numbers guy? And can you

speak about your sincerity or lack thereof, I guess, ongoing on the show? And what do you mean by that as it relates to, you know, looking for love? I guess, yeah. I mean, I guess like, well, not, I guess I definitely have that engineering background. I think about a lot of things statistically. It's just the way I am. I'm not going to change who I am for anybody. Now I will say I'm definitely, and I think this has been proven even, I'm very capable of tapping into my emotions, falling and leaning into them as well. I'm not going on the show thinking like you can't find love in, you know, 30 days, two months or whatever. I, and that really got proven to me, you know, really in Tayshia's season. You know, I leaned into my emotions,

had great conversations, tried to figure out if things would really work. So I think you could definitely, you know, at the end of the day, you want to be yourself. Like I just am who I am. Just because you're, you know, a little bit more analytical in the mind and whatnot, or pragmatic doesn't mean you still can't find love. I think in bachelorette, bachelor, bachelor in paradise. Yeah. I always talk about how you two things can be true at the same time, obviously kind of what we're speaking to in terms of like being a strategic person, thinking about kind of how things line up. Yeah. For me, like going into Paradise, it's not like I was making any plans with any girls. I had no expectations with any women. I of course talked to some of them and met a lot of people over the previous year before

joining Paradise. But it's like, I wasn't trying to, you know, like, Hey, if you get here, like, let's just try to hand roses back and forth or whatever else. Like none of that was happening at all. I was, um, and I definitely think that's proven just by like, um, what was going on there. Like just saying, yeah, I go on a date with her and just saying, and I never talked or DM one time, didn't even follow each other on Instagram, but definitely hit it off. Sure. So you're, you're obviously, you're a very honest guy. I think, I think where you and I have a similarity. I think you, maybe that's why you tweeted it.

It's like, I think you have a hard, I think you're not afraid of the truth. I think you like putting the truth out there. And there's always a lot of conversations when we watch these type of shows and the show has leveraged this behavior against its cast. Obviously the Piper and Brendan situation was the pinnacle of it. But talk about your mindset or what is your opinion of the overall cast, the people who

are on this show now, right? You've had a lot of conversations with cast members, your peers, your friends with a lot of these people. What is the mindset of all the people as it relates to going on the show, being open, defining love, but like we all know that social media is what it is. Like how much are people focused on followers as a whole? How focused are people on brand deals? Speak to that and talk about your motivation as it relates to your peers. Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean mean i think the one thing about our cast especially this year um it's definitely a wide range of individuals by far there's like people on opposite ends of the spectrum like for example myself i feel like i'm like pretty chill and calm and then like uh who knows a demi who's like the opposite of me let's just say um definitely different types of TV there. I think, you know, it's no secret, like going on, you know, The Bachelorette, especially all of us since we already had that experience and then having a little, you know, snip little, you know, tiny bit of fame and whatnot and seeing what like social media can do for you. And like the cool opportunities, like I'm up this upcoming weekend, I get to go to like this NASCAR event, you know, fully paid for and have a time of my life. It's going to just be

fun. It brings about a lot of cool experiences. But I think the most important thing is like when going into paradise or any of these shows is like, you do want to make sure you put love at the top. Like you can't like focus on like, okay, let me try to make a storyline. Let me try to, you know inject myself into this situation just to like get some more air time that's not how I think about it at all um you know and it's a range like I'm sure some people do think about it exactly like that I'm sure some people you know don't really care to you know find love on the show there's probably I don't know this at all but there's probably some people who might have boyfriends or girlfriends

back at home who knows you know like it's just uh uh it's a very wide range of it. But at the end of the day, like me and my friend group, like my, especially the guys who I'm closest with, uh, which are like Riley, Noah, Damar, Riley ended up engaged. Noah's with Abigail right now. Um, Damar was ready to fall in love. I'll tell you that, but he was only there for a week. Um, and myself, I felt like I was fully leaned into the process and and putting love first so um i can't speak for everybody but i know like where especially my immediate friend groups heads were at and that was definitely like putting love first i mean you're an intuitive guy though did you suspect anyone specifically down there saying things and you just thought this is like i know you don't mean that nick yes all the time like i

am because i'm not the guy who gets into, I try not to get into drama. You know, I definitely got caught up in it a little bit, but there's definitely several times I'm like, what are you doing? But granted, it's the nature of the situation. Can you give me an example? Do you have any names?

Come on. I mean, look who's caught up in. You promised tea, Ivan. Come on. The thing is, look who's caught up in most of the drama. Those are probably the people who are like, you know. What do you mean drama? Like drama on the show, drama? Drama on the show. Drama on the show is like, look, who's caught up in most of the drama. Those are probably the people who are like, you know, what do you mean drama? Like drama on the show, drama, drama on the show, drama on the show. Yeah, man. It's I don't know, man.

I don't want to call anybody out specifically. Cause I'm not going to say anybody's like acting or anything. Cause the other thing is like, I don't know these people that well. So this might just be how they are actually. And I'm just like misreading it. I'm not fully sure. Cause I haven't hung out with everybody outside of, you know, the show and cameras. And that's usually a whole different experience. So or sometimes can be, I should say.

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show has been done filming, I mean, you've talked or hung out with a lot of people, like, do you find, like you said, like you, you know, have these events. And again, it seems like you have a good handle on the ability to enjoy the opportunities given to you while not, I mean, you're still at work, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I work a full-time job as an engineer. I work from home still, but yeah, I fully enjoy my job. I, yes, there's cool things that come along with the show, but I do have like, my career and like my aspirations that I'm doing as well. And the other reality of the situation is like, this isn't like a forever fame type thing. This is like, I'll be kind of popular for a year or two, you know, and then I'm going

to like, it's going to start to die down. And, you know, that's just something that I kind of, you know, keep on my mind. I'm not going to quit my job or anything like that yet. And I know some people are able to do that and, you know, hats off to them. You know, once you especially get to that, like the, who knows, tons and tons of followers type club. But no, I still enjoy my engineering job. I have other entrepreneurial type ventures I want to go out and do.

And I'll always do that no matter what. I got the impression you had some thoughts on the Brendan and Piper situation of it all. And so I guess I just wanted to give you an opportunity and get your take on all things that went down in that situation. And is there anything you know or don't know to shed more perspective on it of what went on, you know, one way or the other? Yeah, we can touch on that. That's a very touchy subject, I will say, as evident by Brendan's fallout, especially after the show. I will say as, as evident by Brendan's fallout, especially after the show. But, um, yeah, I mean, the thing is like when I went to, I went to New York back in April

and that's actually one of those nights I was out there. Cause there was a ton of guys from my season that came out to meet us there. Um, one of those nights is definitely the night that Brendan and Piper first ever met. Um, so I guess that was the start of them like meeting, but, um, like Brendan and I, um, you know, we're friends. We probably talk, I'll say like once a month, once every, or like once every like few weeks or so. Um, yeah, going into the show, um, I was not fully sure on his relationship with Piper.

I know they had been talking and seeing, uh, talking to each other and seeing each other a little bit. Um, I was under the impression they weren't like boyfriend, girlfriend, or like seriously dating at least, um, when the show started and then especially, you know, getting out there, seeing them and all that kind of stuff. And his like general interest, um, well, his like interest in Natasha from day one. And then, um, as time went on, you know, interest in like, you know, other people potentially coming out there. Um, I was just like, okay, um, I guess they like, you know, other people potentially coming out there. I was just like, okay, I guess they weren't fully dating, but I will say like starting day two. What do you mean by other people?

Because from our perspective, it looked like it was just Natasha and then Piper came down. Like this is like, you know, definitely like the guys talk, of course. And I think almost all of us did this. We were like, oh man, it would be cool if person X shows up here. And, you know, Brendan definitely guys talk of course and i think almost all of us did this we were like oh man it would be cool if person x shows up here and you know brendan definitely did some of that it wasn't like he was just like i can't wait till piper comes here like he was not just going around doing like piper piper piper only piper did he give specific names because i mean like it's easy for i mean if i were if i were to critique that i could say well, well, Brennan's just like, oh, I'm just excited for other people to come down. Because like, what does that mean?

Yeah. Like maybe he's just saying it to deflect. You know, I don't know if I want to say a specific name, Nick, but I will say he was interested in specific. Was it Bree? Because I heard Bree. I heard he was in Bree's DMs. I mean, you probably have decent sources, I'll say then. But I mean, like all of

us said other people's names, like who knows? Like Joe was probably wanting other people to come. Well, I'm sure it was wanting other people to come down too before he like really had things elevate with Serena. It's just like across the board, like you're interested in people. It's just kind of the nature of paradise. You're always wondering like, hey, what if it's a, you know, girls are coming in this week. It's like, I wonder who's's coming down it would be kind of cool if these people show up so like we always had those general conversations as far as natasha and brendan's relationship yeah i mean like i remember day one that brendan said he was interested in natasha and that's like the only name he kind of named um and i think it was kind of shown on tv like i know they were having like

kind of struggles like romantically getting involved with each other but i but I like from Brendan's perspective and what he was telling me, he was like, dude, she's just such a great, she's such a great woman. I'd like to see, want to still want to see where this goes. And, um, and then I think this is like, you know, when things definitely start to get interesting in that situation, there was a day where it was Brendan, myself, um, and then Noah, I think came to join the conversation later and i could tell he was kind of just like yeah man i don't think it's gonna work out um you know with natasha and i could kind of just see it on his face and um he was just you know talking about that and then this is before piper showed up yeah just maybe like an hour or two before piper showed up because

he's he he told me he was like he was gonna try to um uh he was probably gonna just you know break things off with natasha and try um you know talking to somebody else he specifically told me he was thinking about talking to deandra um and seeing where that goes because brendan honestly didn't spend too much time talking to too many of the women other than natasha to that point he really spent yeah next to no time at all and i think some of the other girls have said that even though you know he was one of the most desired guys out there for sure he like definitely put all his cards in like natasha's basket at that point but he was i was definitely getting the sense um or i knew he was about to like you know kind of pivot and try to try out something else which you know is supposed to happen in paradise

but um that never actually even happened because piper came just comes in and um and then we start with that whole saga so it's uh it's uh it got wild what was your take i mean because it seemed like everyone including people on the show found out a lot about what brendan and piper said you know, they're whispering to each other. They think they're not even mic'd. They're off camera. So, you know, a lot of cast talked about, you know, when the reactions were as strong as they were, a lot of cast was like, I don't fucking know, like what Brendan was saying. So now that you guys know, what was your read on that situation?

And have you had conversations with Brendan about some of the things he said about natasha and as it put a little bit more light in terms of like how he approached the situation like what were your thoughts and again like have you have you talked to brendan specifically about about that yeah yeah i have spoken to brendan one time and we kind of talked about everything but yeah seeing a lot of stuff man it's like a lot of people just assume we know these private conversations and that brendan's you know maybe calling natasha annoying or whatever else like we don't see that part of it like i did not see that at all i just knew they were like you know kind of had interest kind of were on the friend level we're trying to make it where things work out and then um of course piper came in so he kind of just went a different direction um but yeah, and I like myself and I know others, too, definitely were getting like a lot of slack just for like not, you know, quote unquote, standing up for Natasha.

It's like it was it's a very tough situation, especially because I do consider Natasha and Brendan both a friend. And I'm like hearing two different sides. Like, I remember there was a moment where Natasha was between me and Joe and kind of confiding in both of us. And Natasha said, Ivan, you have to call Brendan a liar manipulator. And I was like, from my perspective in that moment, I didn't see that yet. I just saw him having an interest, kind of struggling, saying he was about to move on to somebody else. And then Piper shows up and he just immediately pivots over to her. So I didn't know he was like, you know, you know, she says that he's like leading her on and, and lying about the amount of times Piper met. I

didn't know any of that at all at that moment. Um, so it's, it was just, it was just a very tough situation. Cause I'm like trying to listen to both of them. I'm like, I don't know what to do. And not to mention the fact that I'm over here, like struggling with my current relationships on the beach. I'm trying to figure out my situation. So there's so many different relationships and things happening out there. You don't really know how, what all is going on everywhere. Keeping on the mental health kick. Hey, Headspace is helping you with the guided meditation and tell you what, being present, being focused are important keys to life I have found, and it's difficult to accomplish.

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natasha said uh uh ivan you need to say this to yeah about brennan what do you mean what do you mean because it sounded like she was like coaching you what to say was that what she was no no it was okay no it was like there was a moment because i trust me it got sent to me a lot on instagram there was a moment where she's like confiding in me and joe and i'm like kind of just like sitting here and she's like um she's like your friend's a liar and manipulator and i kind of like don't react and i'm kind of well i don't not that i don't react but i'm like and um, she's like your friends, a liar and manipulator. And I kind of like, don't react. And I'm kind of, well, I don't, not that I don't react, but I'm like, and then she kind of sees my face. Cause I'm like, I'm not going to say that.

And then she was like, I haven't been like, you gotta admit, like he's a liar and manipulator. And I'm just like, I don't see that right. Like, I don't see that right now. So I don't, you know, that was the, that was a tough moment. Um, and you know, looking back, like she, she, she definitely got done, was done very wrong by Brendan. You know, none of those things needed to be said about her at all. And yeah, if I had the full context of everything, I think like I would have been able to help out a little bit more or like get them to talk or, and figure things out a little bit better, hopefully.

But I was just working on the information that I knew and it just is what it is. Did you say as much to Brendan when you spoke to him and can you shed any light on his frame of mind or what he said to you? I mean, obviously, I mean, maybe I don't know if that was a private conversation, but with Brendan, I spoke to him one time. It was definitely like, he knew he was wrong and he was definitely like, he was like, yeah, man, I definitely did things wrong. He was definitely like very, you know, down about the whole situation. I could tell things were like really getting to him because there was like a tremendous amount of backlash, you know, and I don't, I don't know if he thought, you know, all that stuff would air, who knows. But I do think he like genuinely realizes it's wrong what he did.

I haven't talked to him much more other than that, you know, whatever 15, 20 minute conversation we had. I know, I mean, and like, again, like he's like me and him talked about on the beach, like he wasn't just, you know, I know his main thing is like, I wasn't just focusing on planning to be with Piper only. Like everybody's trying to make it seem like that was his only intention. He kind of talked about that a little bit. Is there someone else you think, I mean, if Brie would have come down on the beach, do you think he would have dated Brie over Piper? I mean, I can't say that, but I will say like, who knows? Like, I mean, Brie or, you know, somebody else, like, uh, I think he would have gave it a genuine shot. If, if he, Brendan has very, very select taste. If he genuinely was like, you know, attracted or

interested in somebody, I think he would have talked to them and given them, you know, a couple other people equal opportunities. I mean, I know he only talked to Natasha while he's out there, but even just in him telling me like he was about to start talking to Deandra next, I was like, okay, that's him like trying to go after somebody else. Yeah, I guess. I mean, but I think most people would just say he would have talked to Deandra until Piper showed up.

I guess the big question is, is there anyone he would have preferred to date rather than Piper? Because other than that, I mean, everyone could just say, well, he would just wait for Piper. That's a great question, and maybe we could get Brendan on here because he'll have to answer that one. I don't know. Because, Granny, I don't know how

close he is to anybody else I know he got to mute Piper and get to know her on a certain level but as far as how involved he was with anybody else outside of this show you know he probably would have had to at least have a few conversations and figure things out before I can really before you could really probably he can make that call i guess so gotcha play close to the back i heard a rumor that he was in breeze dms after he met piper and uh yeah i mean i wouldn't doubt that man like a lot of us are in each other's dms like it's i don't mean like as friends but we'll move on let's talk about your let's talk about your your love story. So it seemed like as the season started, you come on, fan favorite, Yesenia comes on.

You seemed like, hey, she's nice, pretty girls. You had a connection. You spoke confidently about your relationship with Yesenia. In comes Chris, and that was kind of the start of well i mean well let's just start there was it your hope that had jessenia not done that with chris uh while you were dating jessenia for the first you know couple days i don't know how long it was in real life yeah were you optimistic about that relationship and had things gone differently? Could you have seen a world where you and Yesenia were one of the final couples

in paradise? Maybe. I'm not sure. I'll say this. We met week one. She kind of surprised me because on day one, while we were out there, somebody directly asked her like, who are you interested in seeing out here in paradise? And, you know, she said my name and then she could say chris's name which was a surprise to me because um you know a lot of people like a lot of the i don't know women from that season or previous seasons like i've had at least one conversation with maybe or they've dm'd me or followed me or whatever so i had like no idea she was interested in me at all so it was cool and she's beautiful and all that kind of stuff and um we did hit it off since the beginning. We kind of just coupled up, you know, had a great time talking and getting to know each other and then that led into a great date between us. I will say I, she did directly tell me that

she was interested in Chris as well. And they had met in San Diego prior to the show as like friends, never like kissed or dated or anything like that. So like that was in the back of my mind. Cause I was like, I think I'm pretty sure Chris is coming out to paradise. We'll see what happens. So like, I think that being in the back of my mind was holding me back just a little bit and not going full force in with Yesenia. So she gave you a heads up before Chris showed up that she might be interested in Chris. She fully did. She fully did. Yeah. And I don't, yeah, actually now I think about it, I don't think people really got to see that. So that was in my mind. So like that does make you

like kind of like pump the brakes just a little bit, but we'll, we'll see where it goes. And she presented that. Cause like, I mean, watching it, right. Yeah. As a viewer, you're just like, wait, did this Jesenia do to Ivan what Chris did to her and what Brendan did to Piper? And is it just a matter of like soundtrack and the focus of the show? But that you're saying actually Jesenia was pretty upfront. front yeah all three of those situations very different situations in my opinion but very different jessenia was very upfront with me um from the beginning like she told me day one like she was interested in like she was like on my list is you and chris i was like cool got it um and then at one point i'm sure we i think we did have the conversation when we knew guys were coming in um like hey what would what happens if you know chris comes in like i think she brought that up to me like the main thing with uh jessenia I was like, that's kind of our running theme.

We were like, let's just have open, honest communication. Like it is what it is. We just met each other. Let's just start on a good basis. And, um, so I think we even talked specifically, like I said, about Chris coming in and what she would do. And, um, you know, it was still so early on. It was like, it was week two, um, guys just came in or, and like, it's not like I was falling in love fully yet. And I still knew what paradise was. And there was still like other people out there that were interested in me as well. So like, I was like, yeah, you know, feel free, like go on the date.

Like I'm not gonna, we're not in an exclusive relationship yet. If we did, you know, mark our relationship exclusive or agree to that, then I don't think she would have went on a date, but no, we were relationship exclusive or agree to that, um, then I don't think she would have went on a date, but no, we were still like open to talking to other people. Um, so yeah, she was really good about that. So, and then I guess since you have opinions on all three situations and we've already discussed Brendan and Piper, uh, when Chris came in and did what he did with Alana. So it's interesting because like knowing what I know now and her being open to

you, were you still, did you have a strong opinion because you were in a way kind of indirectly affected by that? Because it's like, Hey, you know, had Chris not done that, it's just like, Hey, I want to be happy for just sending him. Maybe she's fine. She's going to date Chris. And then Chris comes in, does this, like what were your, what were watching that as someone who was kind of like, uh, indirectly involved? Like, what was your thought of that? And how did you think it should have been handled? For myself? Like, I wasn't like

mad about any of that at all, from my perspective, at least I don't think I had any like basis to be mad at all. Like, she was very open to me. She was following her heart when she went after Chris. And, you know, I appreciated her, you know, always being honest and the relationship we had up to that point. I think where with the Chris and Atlanta situation, that one, you know, definitely gets a little bit more heated up to that point where they get kicked off the beach because like Chris's whole situation was just like upfront and everybody in everybody's face at that uh vip party i wasn't at the vip party but like all i hear is like um alana shows up you know chris makes out with alana in front of jessenia

like pretty quickly um and then jessenia's walking home to the beach and that's like what we hear from her mouth first so i definitely you know i felt bad for her because i i do know she does have a good heart and was like just following it when she went after chris um so i definitely felt bad for her um i think chris has admitted and he he knows he didn't like handle that situation properly he should have done what kind of what jessenia did um with me and probably just like communicated um with her a little bit better about his interest in atlanta and telling her or at least giving her a little bit better about his interest in Atlanta and telling her, or at least giving her a conversation, um, that, Hey, I'm probably going to pivot and, you know, start going after Atlanta. Cause, um, yeah. So I, I think Chris did have some general interest in just sending

in the beginning there, but maybe some of that just, you know, fell off a little bit. I know he met Atlanta, I think in that same trip or whatever as well. And maybe that was like his actual top person. He wanted to get to know a little bit better. So. Gotcha. And then, so after you and just sending it are no longer, you just kind of, I guess, floated for a while. You had to wait. I'll tell you, I'm like remembering now you dated Kendall briefly, or you, would you call it dating Kendall? We were, little hard on you, Justin Long, his brother, and myself. They were a little bit more than me. But when Joe and Serena are talking

and you guys are all just kind of watching that unfold and Kendall's upset and you go to try to kiss Kendall, do you want to speak on that? Because we gave you a little hard time, like what the fuck ivan like what a weird what a weird time to try to kiss kendall but the floor is yours i was just trying to distract her it was just like a little head movement i wasn't trying to kiss her man it is what it is but no but like the the funny thing is like um yeah so i i think week two after just ended, you know, dumped me, I, I ended up getting a rose from Deandra as like a friendship type rose type thing. Um, and then Kendall walks down the next day and, uh, Kendall, someone, I, I, I think we

met on like, what is that? That clubhouse app or something. One time I was in some room there and then, uh, yeah, something like that. Um, and then like, she, you she you know i i could kind of tell like based off our messages before um we didn't message much but like i kind of had a feeling she would be out there especially with joe being out like joe and myself were like the first two guys out there i was like okay this would be kind of interesting if you know kendall shows up um because they dated and whatever so and and when she came out there yeah she like you know

i think there was mutual interest between the two of us. Uh, nobody at home could tell that at that moment, but we spent, did spend a lot of time. We had some really good conversations. Um, not much of it was shown at all. It honestly, none of it made sense. We were actually closer than what people thought, um, at that moment. Um, romantically or just friends?

No, romantically, romantically for sure. But I will say, yeah, at that moment, like as soon as that moment happened, oh, you see like my face just goes stale. I'm like, oh, she's fully gonna just unravel here, I feel like. Because she was really good at communicating as well. Like she told me like, let's take things slow. I was like, yeah, get it. I'm cool taking things slow. This is a very weird situation you're in. Your ex is here. And like, I empathize with her, you know, like I personally would not put myself

in that situation at all. Just cause like, I'm just imagining my ex being out here. I'm like, nope, nope, can't do it. I would not be able to see that myself. I would probably just leave immediately. So a testament to them both for being able to like weather that storm. At least Joe was able to weather the whole storm. You know, Kendall being able to like weather that storm at least joe was able to weather the whole storm you know kendall was able to do it to a certain degree and

like um kind of test things out with me but eventually it just became too much for which i like fully fully get honestly because i would have been i just wouldn't have showed up honestly for myself so when kendall left were you a little bummed because i i think i gave you a hard i think i said you would have accepted a a rose from a plant i think those are my exact words if i'm being totally candid but because i guess watching it and i get it right we saw the joe we saw thomas and becca coup friends like romance not shown at all and now they're they seem to be like in a real relationship outside of the show uh without any fanfare. So we know that's certainly possible.

But were you actually bummed when Kendall left? No, yeah, I was definitely, you know, a little bit bummed. Like, I mean, she was again, this was another, you know, what, three, four day relationship, to be quite frank. Like it was it was a good, you know, a few days there. But, you know, and we definitely had some really bizarre talks, honestly, she knows quite a bit. And like, she's just very scientific and she knows a ton of stuff. She's very smart, um, which definitely attracted us to each other, I will say. Yeah. So I was definitely a little bit bummed. And like, I knew again, like, you know, coming into paradise, I was very hopeful to leave with

somebody and I'm like, Oh my gosh, like. I think they even caught a clip of me. I'm like, what am I even doing here? I was just like, whatever. It is what it is. Yeah, because I think I was just very hopeful to be in a relationship, be in love at the end of it all. What made you stay after Kendall left, knowing that like – I guess technically you got broken up with twice.

They were like soft breakups. But at that point, it's late in the game. And that's where, you know, as fans or viewers are watching the show, recap it. We're just like, you know, and all this talk about right reasons and who's staying and who's there for TV, who's there for followers. And it's just kind of like, why not just go home? At that moment, what is your thought process? And, or is it just like, Hey, I got a bond with my friends. I'm having a good time. Like not only like you, what is your, what's your thought process? And what do you think at that

late in the game as a, as a viewer, we're just kind of like anyone who's staying at this point, clearly, I mean, what do you think you're going to fall in love in a week because there's like a week left people are talking about engagement what what's your thought process about that yeah so for myself there i like yeah i was definitely a little bit lost didn't know what to do fully um i think the thing is like it is paradise and very random things were happening all season example they brought becca kufrin ex-bachelorette in in the middle of a cocktail party so it's like bizarre stuff happening all the time. You never know who can come down, when they'll come down. You know, another random example, Natasha got a rose from, who was it? Wells after the whole Brendan situation. So like, I never knew what was going to happen and who else was going to still

be coming. And I, you know, and I was still definitely open to finding love. love and um no at that point for sure like if somebody came down and i met them for the first time there's you know a next to zero percent chance we'll probably be engaged by the end of this but maybe it sparked something that we can continue after is kind of where my thought process was at gotcha so and then we get into the whole aaron chelsea drama uh which like you said, would seem to prompt your tweeting and talking about podcasting. I guess I'll just walk us through that or what didn't we get to see or tell us, I guess just tell us the whole story. Yeah. So it plays out quite wildly. And like a lot, like I said earlier, a lot of my actions did not make sense like even like trying to objectively view this like as a viewer i'm like this doesn't make sense like what am i doing it does not make sense but like just to try to add

more context to the situation um going into that cocktail party specifically like i um was definitely like you know lost i didn't really have any, I didn't know anybody at the beach currently was interested in me at all. I, and, you know, and the kind of the way I went into paradise is like, listen, I'm going to be open to people. If anybody's interested in me, I'm going to have a conversation with them, all that type of stuff. So going into that day, I like even made a speech, I think at our little like gathering before the cocktail party, I was like, listen, it's been ups and downs for me here. Like, I don't really have too many leads. I don't think I have any, uh, I don't know if anybody's really even interested in me anymore

at this point, but, um, I'm just going to, you know, enjoy this, this day and, and, um, you know, hang out basically. And they show a clip of myself talking to Aaron James specifically, right when the cocktail party begins, or I'm like, yeah, man, I'm not trying to just take anybody's rose because that was genuinely what I was feeling in that moment. There's nobody interested in me. I'm not going to try to just randomly go after girls just to get their rose. But this is the cocktail party before the storm. No, after the storm. The storm happened and the cocktail party happened. Yeah. So right in the beginning of the cocktail party, they show a clip of me talking to aaron james i say yeah i'm not trying to just steal anybody's rose yeah and that's like how i genuinely felt because i didn't

know anybody was interested in me at that point and then what happens is like i think like chelsea and aaron go off and he does this like runway model sure um thing for her which i have a comment on later but um very interesting comment but it's uh um they go do that and then like several of chelsea's friends um tell me or tell me that specifically that like hey ivan chelsea wants to talk to you like she's interested in you she wants to talk to you and like this is kind of like out of left field for me, I think for a couple of reasons, like I want, I was talking to Kent. I need a couple of names. Well, like Abigail, her best friend, she definitely told me. Okay. And then like, it's also like, and there was other people, like I talked to Becca after the whole situation and she was like, Oh yeah, I kind of knew she was

interested in you too. Like, it was kind of just a known thing amongst the women that I guess Chelsea was like, I don't know, interested in me and wanted to at least have a conversation because she was kind of and they came to you and that is what prompted you to go over to Chelsea is what you're saying there's a little bit more to it this was kind of like out of left field for me I was like whoa I'm not like this is kind of out of field I didn't really know what to do with this really um and whatnot but then uh what kind of prompted it for me was what set me over the edge i'll say is like chelsea aaron finish up the runway model thing and by the way aaron i heard him on a podcast say like he wanted to do something sweet for chelsea and do that and set that whole up thing up for her

that was not an aaron idea unless he randomly has the same brain as damar because that was actually damar's idea and he has like a notebook full of notes about what he wanted to do for Chelsea that day. And I didn't find out about that till that till later. So that was actually a stolen idea from him. So it wasn't a stupid thing. How do you think he stole it? I have no clue.

I have no clue if he, how he heard about it, but like DeMar actually has notes about that thing, unless they have the exact, but either way you're saying that, you know, well, you don't have to say it.

I can say it i could say it maybe maybe like a producer gave him that idea and it wasn't aaron's ideas i it wasn't aaron's idea he wasn't trying to be sweet it was clear as day and i think i said it there and it was it wasn't just my thought honestly it was multiple people's thoughts too like when me demar and or not demar me noah and riley are just watching them do it i'm like i think i made a comment like i don't think aaron's that you know interested in chelsea and like i still don't like if he's being honest with himself i don't think he was to be quite frank but i mean yes he showed that by going to tia exactly and like i think i think it was it was it was obvious honestly but

um being there at least so after they finish that up i think aaron goes to like interview so he's not around so i'm already have some information like chelsea's friends telling me she wants to talk to me there's like a situation now where i'm at the bar with demar chelsea and myself and mind you chelsea went on a date with demar and aaron the two days prior to this i I think. So like Damar has genuine interest in Chelsea too. So this makes this whole thing a little bit more weird for me just because he's one of my best friends too. But Chelsea specifically asked me, and Damar heard her say this because it was a little bit awkward.

But she was like, why haven't we ever talked one-on-one? This is before I ever talked to her. So after she said that, like me and Damar look at each other and just like wow this is awkward for a minute so that's when I like step away for like a second and I come back and I pulled Chelsea to go talk to her that's the kind of what like set me over the edge I was like okay she's got interest in talking to me and she just made this comment to me let's just have a conversation because like anybody who like I said from day one like if anybody was interested in me and or if i'm interested anybody i just wanted to at least have a conversation and see where things go um and so that's what i was trying to do so were you a little annoyed watching it back where chelsea played dumb it seemed i mean she

was just like there was this whole like i asked you to pull you said pull me yeah there's a lot of back and forth. And then Chelsea was like, I didn't say that. And she was like, what was your take on that? There was a lot of semantics, communications issues here. To be clear, if you watch the whole thing very closely, I never, ever once said that Chelsea pulled me to go talk. I don't know who says that.

We broke that down. Yeah, everybody keeps saying Ivan said that Chelsea pulled me to go talk. Like, I don't know who says that. We broke that down. Yeah. Everybody keeps saying Ivan said that Chelsea pulled him. And I'm like, I never said that one time. I said, Chelsea wanted to talk to me, which was the truth. Chelsea wanted to talk to me. Cause I heard it from several of her friends. And then she asked me, why haven't we ever talked one-on-one? So, but all that combined is what instigated all that.

And then just to touch back on the Aaron thing, Aaron wasn't around. I don't know where Aaron was. Not that combined is what instigated all that. And then just to touch back on the Aaron thing, Aaron wasn't around. I don't know where Aaron was. Not that I was going to go report to him that, Hey, I'm about to go talk to Chelsea. I was just going to go have a conversation with him anyways, but he was not around at all when this was happening. So I go over to, um, to talk to Chelsea on the day bed, you know, we're having a fine conversation. It's, um, you know, it's like, she admits, um, to it. She's like, yeah. You know, we're having a fine conversation. It's, you know, it's, like, she admits to it. She's like, yeah, I know this is out of left field. This is very random. I'm like, yeah, it definitely is. Like, I wasn't expecting this at all. And then, like, you know, we just kind of start talking about regular things. And then, like, this is another thing.

But, you know, and then we eventually kiss. And I know Aaron and James are watching in the background and they see us kiss. And the thing about that one is like yes I enjoyed the kiss and Chelsea is great and all those things like she's she's amazing and I definitely wanted to do that but like what was said right before that was that Chelsea actually told told me she was like in the middle of our conversation she said I really want to see what it's like to kiss you she said that directly to me and then then we start making out. That's how the whole kiss came about. And I'm not going to tell a beautiful woman, no, especially when they tell me that in the middle of a conversation and we're in paradise. And I don't see her like with

any like, you know, lockdown relationships. So that's kind of how the conversation ends off that kiss. And my mind, honestly, immediately was not like on Aaron at all really like I knew I was going to talk to him eventually but it was mostly on DeMar because DeMar was my best one of my best friends out there and he had genuine interest in Chelsea so I didn't if you like look at the tape like I walked back to the bar with Chelsea and I immediately start talking to DeMar I'm like dude the situation's like you know just start talking about the situation kind of like laughing a little bit like because I'm just checking in with him like this is just kind of how it's um escalated um i didn't even really have even really have time to wrap my mind around what just happened at all

because like 30 seconds later aaron comes up yells across the beach in a very like terrible energy towards me says like i haven't come over here i need to talk to you or whatever and points to this little spot where he likes to go to argue with people like he did that with Thomas several times I had the most amount of arguments out there so I was like dude I'm not coming to you because I'm not sure like I'm not a child the way he was talking to me so he eventually comes up over to me and I could tell he's like very angry and all this stuff and like it's kind of funny because I remember there's one thing I say before he starts I'm like dude before you do all this fake stuff you're about to do please don't do it I directly said that to him and then he proceeds to get like hype with me like he doesn't even try to have a normal conversation

he just like immediately is like as soon as I start trying to explain he's like bitch move and then calls me uh eventually calls me like a pussy and a a and at that point you know the way i was raised like you don't do that to a grown man so i stood up for myself fully and i don't think he expected that at all because like i am very chill and casual and i get in his face i'm like what are you gonna do about it like what's up dude like i'm gonna get right in your face because and to see later in the itms which was just kind of alarming where he's like saying he's gonna slap me and break me in half and i'm built like a chopstick doing all this body shaming and like actual like physical threats. And then he did like nothing about it at all when I'm in his face,

like giving him the opportunity. I think really just like, I don't know, it was just kind of mind blowing for me and definitely like angered me quite a bit i will say um because like if i say i don't know i if you listen to the whole thing i don't want to say i'm gonna punch you i'm gonna hurt you anything like that but i will always uh defend myself so um to hear that he was saying all that kind of stuff definitely like rubbed me the wrong way um to the fullest and and to hear him say things like behind thomas's back like i'm gonna kill that guy or that kind of stuff it's probably unpopular opinion, but I think that by far Aaron was the worst person on this show. It's not even close.

He was saying like crazy things about us. Like it was physical, you know, threats. I think just, I don't know. They take the cake on. Yeah. I've been hard on, I've been hard on Aaron. I think he has a lot of growing up to do from an outsider's point of view. Do you think it's a little more than just him growing up? betrayed or lied to. Cause I did at the beginning say I wasn't going to just try to take anybody's girl. And then I did go back on that because of the things that I explained earlier that developed.

And like I said, he wasn't even around and that's just the way paradise works. Sure. But that's how he handles things, right? Yeah. It's the way it's the way it was handled. Like I definitely would have had an adult mature conversation with Aaron, but when you start going crazy on me instantly, no, like that goes out the window. Like you don't even let me talk and you start calling me out my name on national television, especially like, and then I hear about you're doing all these things behind the scenes and talking all this trash. Like, no, at that point, no, it's like,

I'm not going to have a conversation with you at that point. Like it is what it is. Let's like, let's drop, like do something or drop it for me at least. What was your take on Thomas? I mean, there are so many opinions about Thomasomas on katie's season on paradise and then now he's with with becca and we all love and respect becca and think she's a great judge of character i feel like thomas has been redeemed a little bit uh we've been back and forth on this show like he i never thought he was as bad as some people try to claim whether it was katie or some of the guys on the season,

but he certainly is guilty of saying rather profound things with not much to back it up. What was your take about the guy? Thomas, I love Thomas, honestly. Every interaction we have, I still talk to him on occasion here and there. He'll check in on me. He was, I think, almost all the girls with us. He was a complete gentleman to everybody.

Always took the plates up for the girls, brought food to them. Like, just being a sweetheart to literally everybody. Super nice guy. And, I mean, that's all I could really judge him off of. I wasn't on their season. And post-show, like, he's been a great guy. Like, he's got a lot going for himself. Comes from a great family.

Owns, you know, a business and all that kind of stuff. Very well-spoken. Very intelligent. Remem remembers a ton of things like we've talked we talked about quite a bit um and yeah i i do definitely respect thomas and think he's a great guy that's funny always funny to hear i really do like i do think i definitely do agree with you becca is a good judge's character and i think well and i know um things are going very well for them and he has like real genuine interest and he's actually shocked by it all and how it all worked out and it's yeah it's a bummer we didn't get to see more of them um yeah because I mean he he he took it he really took it on the

chin on Katie's season and uh really all the guys. And even on this podcast, Katie had some pretty harsh things to say about him, which didn't, didn't, didn't really back it up, but nice to hear other people's perspective. The paradise experience and post show experience from the Thomas perspective has been great.

Like he's, I genuinely do like that guy a lot. He was supposed to come out here to dallas one weekend but things kind of fell through for us but i'm sure i'll you know see him eventually well that's really cool to hear i i think we skipped over kind of an important part that people want to get more insight on and that is the the storm and and you sneaking out and the phone and of course um so i i guess just, shed some light on that and tell us that what, what happened there and, um, yeah.

And then we'll, we'll go from there. A lot still happened on that first day, like kind of an order, like with, uh, the Chelsea Aaron situation, um, you know, Aaron and I get in a big fight. Then I, I have, I literally am talking about the situation nonstop with the guys and other people just for hours or whatever. So I finally, the producers pulled me away for my ITM and I have like a little bit of time just to reflect on everything and where I was at with my feelings on everything and my conversation with Chelsea and like where I was mentally as far as paradise goes. And in my interview, actually before that cocktail party and like Wells pulls me aside,

um, I like straight, know tell the tell the guys like hey like um i'm not gonna accept anybody's rose tonight like i'm just gonna go home like paradise has done a number on me uh chelsea's great but it's just kind of too little too late for me to be here i feel like um and then later on before the cocktail party i talked to like riley and damar and some other guys and i say say bye to everybody before the, the rose ceremony even happens. Like I'm already saying goodbye to people. I think I threw Joe off. He was like, are you sure? Like, are we could talk later? Like you might stay, you never know. I was like, no, man, like I'm, I'm done. I'm done here. So like that's, I, and, um, I kind of just wanted to say

that at least just because there was a lot of questions about me just trying to rose hunt or whatever, and just stay there for the sake of staying there. Cause no, at that point, like after the fight and then after just like, you know, it was a cool conversation with Chelsea, but it was just one quick conversation. I was kind of just ready to, to, to leave paradise at that moment. And, you know, then Wells pulls me aside before the throw ceremony. And I'm like, Oh boy, like, Oh boy, they found out. And I know I walked down there.

Did you know, you knew right away? I didn't know right away, but well, okay. Once he said something happened at the hotel, I'm like, Oh God, Oh God. So I'm like, just like, all right, we're about to go figure this out. And, um, you know, and I just come clean about everything. Like I knew in that moment, like I was just going to be fully honest and transparent, um, with what happened at the hotel that the night before. Um, and, uh, yeah, people kind of got to see that it was actually a much longer

conversation than what the, what was aired really like, I mean, always is. Yeah. And a lot of it, I'm sure is kind of still throws people off. Doesn't fully make sense to a lot of people because they're like, who's Alexa, what in the world? But Alexa, somebody, Alexa, somebody that I, she's actually my, out of the people that I kind of knew were going to Paradise,

she was actually the person I was most interested in meeting. I said, Alexa and Serena P since the very beginning of Paradise. Like that's what you told producers? I told producers that. Yeah, like even when, because I was the third person out on the beach,

like it was me, Joe and Abigail. They show me saying Serena P, but I also later on in that conversation mentioned, or at the beginning, I think I mentioned Alexa from Peter season. Like I really want to meet her and get to know her just based off the few conversations we had pre paradise. I thought she was a great person, had a great personality and we had really good, I don't know, energy around each other on the phone at least. So I I've never met her in person or anything like that. Never set any expectations with her, but that's kind of where my mindset was at was Alexa's. Cause I was like, man, she's not here.

And I thought I was hoping she was going to be there. So, you know, going into the tropical storm night, um, I knew there was a cocktail party rose ceremony the next day. And then it's Noah. Noah's my roommate. Noah's one of my best friends as well. We're just like, all right, this is my sendoff party. Let's just have a good time. Turned up the TV super loud. It was kind of a cool situation because like we went to the different hotel and me and Noah were just hanging out, you know, we're unmiked. We're just hanging out, playing loud music, just messing around, having a good time. And then like producers are in and out. They're having a good time with us. We're all just talking. But of course we're asking like, hey, like is there anybody else here that I might be interested in? Like,

asking like hey like um is there anybody else here that i might be interested in like um am i just going to be leaving that kind of thing um and and whatnot because of course they're not telling me anything at all but you know you're you're going to ask the questions sure yeah and then as far as like just to get to the whole phone situation i guess um and i do then i do say this on tv like um a producer said to me like she was going to leave for a second or she said to both of us, she's going to leave and be right back. When she leaves, her phone is sitting on the chair she was sitting on. And then like me and Noah, like look at each other, like what in the world is going on? So, of course, we hop out of bed. Like it was just like, I mean, that's a, in this day and age,

that's a weird, you notice that right away. And so. Yes. You fully notice it, but also, yeah. Like, and I haven't seen a phone in a month or whatever. And like, and we're just like lit. It's just like unlocked and lit. Yeah. So yeah, I pick up the phone, the phone, no joke is unlocked. And it has the list of names and room numbers i do not press swipe up i don't type in a code it's just on the screen with it being just on the screen a list of rooms uh room numbers and names i of course and noah can attest to all this like we of course look to see who's on the list

so i see alexa's name i mean i don't, I don't even... Do we think that's going through someone's phone? You like didn't touch it. You didn't do any of the... Did you even touch the phone? Did you touch it? We definitely had to scroll on the list. Okay, all right. That's going through.

There was no swiping. There was no going to the homepage. I did not go through it at all. Okay, I did go through that. I will say... Technically, we're just having fun with this. But yeah, you touching the phone... If it's scrolling, that's a different, yeah. Had you just kind of looked,

you could have really totally understand. I mean, either way, whatever, but. It was like, cause it was a list of all of our names on there. So like, it was just like, yeah, and then like. But you did have to touch the phone and scroll a tad. Okay. Yeah, yeah, like it was, yeah, it was a longer list.

Like it didn't all fit on just one screen. I gotcha was just yeah it was open and on like conveniently right there it was crazy i know but like you're not really thinking fully straight i will say it in the moment i would uh i i yeah i'm trying to think what i would have done in that situation i would have i probably would have thought that someone's trying to tell me something without trying to tell me something. That's what I would have thought. Yeah. Not necessarily to go sneak out, but like, hey, maybe don't leave quite yet kind of thing.

Yeah, maybe so. I've had a lot of thoughts about it. And that's kind of probably what, I don't know. Who knows? But yeah, who knows? We'll never really know. But you proceed. Yeah. You got the, yeah. So I see Alexa's name here. Um, again, this was the top person I wanted to see at paradise. I was interested in,

I have zero interest or I don't think anybody at the beach has any interest in me at this point. Cause this was before the cocktail party. And I hear that Chelsea does have interest in me and I just got broken up with Kendall. So I had like, had no ties to anybody back at the beach at this point in time. So, um, you know, we're just like, like we like go look at the map on our door and we're like, oh man, like, cause this is a big resort. We're like, oh, she's just across the hall and two floors up. Like, it's actually not that far. Like, it's not like on the other wing of the hotel. Like it's like not that far from us. Yeah. From, For me. Right. Just kind of do the math and yeah. Yeah. Do the math. And then, you know, it's like,

it's getting later in the night and I'm like, all right, F it. I'm just going to go say what's up to her. Did Noah know you left? Yes. Noah fully knew. Like he was my roommate. Where did you guys debate? you're like you must have been like hey man should i just fucking go yeah no i mean i don't so i will say like if any i'm not so this is fully my my actions that i took by the way yeah you're you're a grown man yeah if anybody else was my roommate i definitely wouldn't have gone but no is definitely like a

little bit mischievous and who knows what he's you know gotten away with in the past so it's like my mindset was just in a weird place i was like f it i'm gonna just go of course like yeah i met him for like 30 seconds at gov ball well more than 30 seconds i spent a few minutes with him and yes he definitely it seems like a really nice guy i quite i quite like him but he's a you can tell he you know well the guy we got to see on parrotade, he loves the toe a lot. And yes, he's definitely not safe. Yeah.

So no, I really do love that guy too. Like we spent a lot of time together. He's great. But yeah, no, I made the decision. I was like, all right, dude, I'm about to just go. And like, of course, he's my roommate. So we'd have to figure out like how I'm going to get back in all that kind of stuff. But I literally just and what was hilarious, I was really wondering about this.

I was wondering if they had any footage of me like sneaking over to her room, because I kid you not, I looked so ridiculous. I was wearing one of Noah's hats that literally said the word bad across it. And then I put on some glasses and a mask. And I think like a hoodie. So I was like very incognito and just was like trying to like completely be like yeah nuts or whatever I didn't want to draw any attention yeah so I get to her room I knock on the door um she opens the door I could tell she's like doesn't recognize me for a second because I think she was she thought I was a producer she told me like but then like after like four seconds she's like Ivan oh my gosh and then like um we just spent the whole night together like we were

on her balcony talking for hours like it was it was definitely a long time like four hours i'll say we were out there uh and we had great conversation absolutely great conversation it was a it was a great time um as far as like hooking up we never like you know made it past kissing it was just we only kissed and made it out of course um and just had a lot of great conversation it past kissing it was just we only kissed and made it out of course um and just had a lot of great conversation it was um it was really a good night and then you know if alexa ever gets to talk about it or you know on a podcast or whatever like i think uh i know actually because i'm still friends with her today that she you know has no regrets about how things played out and uh really enjoyed the night as well as like we both felt a little bit mischievous it was you know kind

of cool we got to both meet each other we um you know the way things are going to play out um uh you know and it was it was everything that i hoped it would be especially that first night i will say and um but yeah so and you know of course like in the back of my mind i'm just like man i'm really about to leave here without getting to actually like meet her on the on the beach when i was like uh the next day that was kind of like another bummer in the back of my head as well. Um, but, but yeah, man, uh, uh, that's kind of how the whole Alexa thing happened. Um, for the most part. And, um, yeah, Ali has a question for you, Ivan. Uh, yeah. Can you talk about the 5.00 AM like alarm call you made to the front desk that you needed a wake-up call at 5 a.m.?

Yeah, that was a real bonehead move, I'll be honest. I mean, that's what Wells said really shot you guys in the foot. I don't even know what you're talking about. What happened? Oh, Ivan can explain. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so basically, because we didn't know how they found out, I guess. You guys talking on the balcony was when you just said that.

I've been like, voices carry outside yeah so we we did turn on the tv um like not too loud but decently loud just like try to kind of like cover our voices and we weren't talking too loud at all um because we weren't thinking about that but apparently there was a producer that lived next door to her that heard us and then uh this is what well said at least. And then she set like a five or 6am wake up call. I was probably like 6am I think, but we kind of did that as a fail safe in case I fell asleep over there. And they were like, why the fuck would these people want to wake up at five? Listen, Nick, I was not in the best place. I swear.

At the end of paradise, there was not the most logical thing to do. I mean, honestly, it sounds like who gives a shit kind of thing. Also, I don't know if I cared that much at that point, to be quite frank, because I was like, I'm leaving tomorrow. None of this actually matters right now. But I will say,

when I do talk to Wells about it and all that stuff, I was definitely very apologetic. It was extremely dramatic on TV. And it actually was really dramatic just hearing me in general. I knew I couldn't just downplay it at all. I did have to own it. I did. Signing up for the show, you sign up to have your love story shown on TV.

And having good relationships with some of the EPs, I definitely felt bad. I kind of – or I didn't kind of. I definitely went around that and didn't give them the opportunity to film it or anything like that. So like, I knew that going into, like, I was going to give them the opportunity to like film my love story or breakups or whatever else. So like, I definitely went around that. So I definitely am very apologetic to them. Yeah, they'll be okay. You did a human thing. It's not, it's not the end of the world, but you were contrite, I guess, in the moment. And it's good that you acknowledge that.

Yeah, no, yeah. I was fully, honestly, just wanting to talk to her. Like it wasn't like anything else other than that. I wasn't just trying to say F the producers or anything like that. I was like mostly just thinking like, this is the girl I've been wanting to see and talk to you. And that's what I kind of just did, honestly, at the end of the day. Ivan, you are not the first person who has snuck out and yes had private conversations yeah with someone they weren't supposed to

I was one of them on Caitlin's season yeah I like to say I'm the first guy who got caught like a dummy though I don't know you're probably not who knows maybe you're probably not even definitely not well no Caitlin Caitlin got caught Caitlin snuck out on her own season and that was part of the show so yeah it's uh yeah you'll be okay uh i just have one question because again you seem like someone who's really like again big on you know just speaking the truth and accountability a lot of people go on the show and when things don't go well for them have a tendency of blaming the show or blaming producers or blaming the edit. Just, do you have an opinion on that? Do you think, um, that sometimes people are the reason that they're, they don't look good or what are your thoughts on that? I feel like you have an opinion. No, definitely. Yeah. For myself. Like, um, I, I definitely hear like the complaints,

like anytime this actually like makes me like, oh my gosh, I hate this. Honestly, it paid for me. It's like, if a person looks terrible on TV or said some very terrible things, I see so many people be like, guys, it's a TV show. It's edited, all that kind of stuff. You're not going to hear me say that. I'm not saying that. Like I knew what I, for myself, at least like, I like to think I knew what I signed up for. And like, you know, my actions are my actions. And, um, you know, you don't, of course you don't get the full story on all things but like that's where you can kind of you know talk a little bit more about things like like I am doing now but like the way things played out on tv I'd like it all kind of like if I was trying to be objective or if I was you know a producer a production team whatever I'm like this kind of makes sense to me the most for the

most part like to play things out like like the way they played out so um and as far as the eps the show like it's provided me so many opportunities i had a great experience on both shows actually being there i've made lifelong friends um so many fun opportunities and and experiences um you know for this time of my life so um i think they've made uh great strides you know in the diversity category they've done things that they said they were going to do um and i just really appreciate of you know of the show and and and honestly the eps and or all the producers in general yeah in my experiences though but yeah i definitely do think there's some blaming on like you know that's not fully justified like i uh definitely mentioned to like my friends and stuff like probably like if i had to put a number on it like 95 or i don't know, maybe it's really high.

90 something percent of the things that people complain about on an edit aren't really the edit's fault. It's their own fault. And they're just not taking ownership, in my opinion. You know, I'm sure a lot of the other Bachelor Nation people might like kind of, you know, take offense to that or whatever. But that's just the kind of the way I see it. It's a lot of its context, right? I'm trying to actually I'm going on my way to not say the word hyperbolic on this podcast. I've said it a lot in recaps. I've been called out by my audience and rightfully so. But part of it, like you said, it's context, right? Like, and also, like you said,

it is over, it is over-dramatized, right? So what they're seeing happened, what they did, they did. Is it as bad as, or is egregious as, as sometimes as we see it? No, you know, it's like, whatever, but you know, you got caught, you snuck out and Wells is here like shaming you like a school counselor, like whatever. And some people watch it and be like, Oh my God, how could you possibly do that? So it's a little bit of just like they're sensitive and they don't see it that

way, or it wasn't their intention of just like they're sensitive and they don't see it that way or it wasn't their intention of why they did that but they still did it right and i've always like what in my perception my is that again they're they're just what they're not going to do they're not going to be the friend to tell you no and they're not going they're not the voice of reason you know they're not like hey man you shouldn't like hey a Aaron, like maybe just chill out. Maybe just let it slide, Aaron. You know, Aaron's like, hey, I'm going to go fuck shit up. And they're like, oh, I don't know.

Maybe, I guess, maybe, I don't know. Like they'll shrug their shoulders, you know. And then somewhere Aaron's like, they made me do it. You know, shit like that. Yeah, sure. Exactly. Ivan, is there anything else we haven't talked about that you want to cover i feel like you've really um i guess i yeah just uh you know ended on a good note here

like i am truly genuinely happy for like all the couples that came out of paradise the engagements joe serena kenny mari riley marissa like i'm friends with all of them and very happy for them and then the relationships becca thomas noah abigail um just like genuinely happy for them. And then the relationships, Becca Thomas, Noah, Abigail, just like genuinely happy for everybody. I think that was like a great finale and it was great to be able to watch that play out. And yeah, they all deserve all the love in the world. Like give it to them. They're great people across the board. That's great to hear. Do you think we'll ever see you back on this show or are you going to hang up the jersey? Nick, at this point, I think I'm retired. I'm done.

I'm done. You know, I've- Like 100% done or like, you know, who knows what happens next year? Okay. Let me not lie. Yeah. I mean, like I will say, I'll say this to anybody. Like if, if, especially for like a paradise situation, if you're like single, I think

it was a great experience at the end of the days, even though I had a bunch of, you know, crazy stuff happen. Like, I think it's a cool way to meet a lot of people friends or or potential you know relationships or to have potential relationship or engagement and whatnot so um i think it's a great show to do um i'm gonna probably keep watching it you know um michelle season's coming up i'll check that out i'm sure here and there um franchise is great could have been you and michelle man i don't know i would have loved to see I don't know about all that you know I'm three months or so

yeah I'm three months or so removed from Paradise now and I've kind of got some things clicking on my end so oh yeah what is your relationship status um you know we'll see I'm not I don't it's a little bit early on right now but there's a person that you're interested in

that you might have you might sneak out if you yeah so you're talking to somebody but we haven't defined a relationship yet or something yeah we could say that but you know and you know i know there's a lot of people that like you know especially for cast members like that are invested in our like love stories and you know when i feel the time is right, I might come out and, you know, show her off a little bit. We'll see. But maybe don't, but your DMS aren't open. No. Okay. DMS are not open. Okay. I feel like that's all. That's really the important question.

Ivan, we really enjoyed having you on. Thank you for your generosity with your truth and everything you had to say. Again, thanks for coming on this show. I certainly know you had a lot of people reaching out to you, so we really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. I think I speak for everyone listening. You seem like a really great guy.

And whether it's the person you're talking to now or someone in the future, we're all certainly wishing you nothing but the best, both in your personal life and romantic life. And we are excited to see you fall in love whenever that might be. Very kind words, Nick. I really appreciate it. Tell Natalie hello for me. And I definitely wish you guys all the best. I really appreciate you having me on your podcast. Thanks buddy. Thanks for listening guys.

I hope you enjoyed this episode with Ivan. Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com. Cast with a K for Ask Nick episodes that are on Monday. We are back three days a week next week with the premiere of Michelle's season. And if there's nothing else, we will see you back on Monday.