The Viall Files - E332 Bachelorette Recap With Cathy Kelley

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

We are back for another season of recapping as we jump right into the premiere episode of the new Bachelorette. On today’s Bachelorette recap we are joined by journalist, host, model, and actress, Cathy Kelley! On this episode, we dive into discussing the range of limo entrances, who has the bigger firetruck, sneaking into the boys’ hotel and spying, and first impressions. We also talk about who’s been talking to Michelle before the show, how this feels like the first “big” season of the show since the pandemic, the underdogs of the season, and the power and impact of an impression rose. “Clayton got outshined.”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  For merch please visit www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Go to http://www.betterhelp.com/ViallFiles and unload the stress. Huzzah: Go to http://www.DrinkHuzzah.com and use code Viall to get 20% off. Wondery: Listen TO EVEN THE RICH on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. RumHaven: Discover more recipes that will help you Sip into Paradise at http://www.RumHaven.com Pill Club: Go to http://www.ThePillClub.com/Viall to start today and The Pill Club will donate $10 to http://www.BedSider.org Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @cathykelley  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. Everyone needs to unload on someone who's unbiased and who isn't judging. Visit betterhelp.com slash vile files. That's V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S and unload the stress. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Vile Files Bachelorette Edition. As if, like... You never left. We never left.

A good week off. I hope you guys were rested and enjoyed your week off from all things Bachelor. But we are back. We have the wonderful Kathy Kelly with us to break down episode one. She helped us with episode one of Paradise. Maybe we'll make it a thing. We're doing a premiere streak. Yeah. Welcome back. It's always good to have you. The audience loves your take. Before we dive into Michelle's premiere, we have a fantastic episode for you. Well, probably out now, if you're already listening to it. Just keep on listening.

The wonderful Remy Vader is with us. Remy, how do we describe Remy? She's, well, first and foremost, a fashion goddess. She's got like... She's an influencer, but doing it for a cause. Sure, yeah. She started on TikTok and she's doing all these hauls and I've learned what a haul was. Did you not know before?

No. If you would have said like, oh, I did a haul, I'd be like, okay, who are we? Is that like a new workout routine? But realistic hauls in terms of reality versus expectation and like what to wear, body positivity we talk about, fashion, all things related to just being your best self and anxiety.

We talk about anxiety a lot. But Remy is a delight. We really enjoyed having Remy on and that is probably available now depending on, unless you are listening to this right after the Bachelorette so tune in to that next week on the

breakdown of the Bachelorette we have the wonderful very hysterical Jim Jeffries with us to recap the Bachelorette he is a Bachelor fan who isn't these

days? Yeah. I first found out that he was like a recent Bachelor fan, but now that I've talked to him, I did his podcast. I think it probably is out yet. Turns out, I think he's been a fan for a minute. Oh. A closeted fan. Yeah. It was like he is now

talking about being a fan. Honestly, that's a thing with guys I've noticed. They've watched for years. Maybe they watched with an ex-girlfriend or something, and then they just kept watching. Yeah. But they don't tell anyone. So, Jim is with us.

Be sure to tune in for that. And I don't think we have anything else. Sending your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K for AskNick episodes. If you're stuck in a situationship and want to figure out what to do, that is the episodes for you. Honestly, I would love to hear your takes

on some of the things that Michelle has done tonight because she is like a master class in how to communicate your standards, your boundaries, your empathy, like all the things. Michelle. Yeah. Let's just start there. I mean, high expectations for Michelle. I think from everyone on Bachelor Nation, she, the biggest mistake the producers ever made was waiting four weeks to introduce her on Matt James' season. I think if nothing else, it just shows that

they're just kind of guessing too. Like not everything is planned out from day one. Yeah. They're kind of figuring it out. I think Michelle is living proof of that because there's no way they would have sidelined her

for four episodes. And so we came in with a lot of great expectations. Certainly, we had great expectations of Michelle. I think we talked about this a couple episodes that I, you that I expected Michelle to

be someone who could hold people accountable, set her boundaries, stand up for herself. We love to see that in our bachelorettes, but simultaneously remain poised, hold her grace, like not yell at people. And she, even on night one, delivered that in ways, like some of the conversations, I was just like, I was so impressed. I want to date her, damn. And in ways that like, I was just like,

I would love to think in that moment, I would have said what she said, but I don't know if I would. Yeah. You know, it's just like, in hindsight, I'd be like, oh, what a great thing to say. And I'll try to say that next time I'm in a situation like that.

But no, I just really bravo. I almost, I'm glad that I'm watching the season because I'm learning from her. I'm like, this is how you communicate your standards, your boundaries. This is how you hold people accountable and how you don't dim your light. You bring others up.

And if they can't come up with you, then move on. But like her, what she says about, she's been single for so long because she's not going to settle, I think is a huge thing for women and men to see. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, this is also the first season, I think in a long time COVID and lead lead related where it just feels like we're

in the Bachelor, Bachelorette franchise again. It feels big, it feels grand, and this is the perfect lead to do it. Yeah. I mean, nice intro package. I mean, a lot has been said between the promos of Michelle versus Katie's. I mean, that was just rude on the producer part. Yeah. I don't know when... Well, I do know. They typically shoot the promos before you start filming.

Pre-COVID. I don't know if that has been changed. There could be... After you get done filming, some time to do some promos. I don't think that's the case, but I find that interesting because knowing what I know, like it wouldn't make sense if they did it before,

if they did Katie's promo before filming and Michelle's promo before filming the season, it wouldn't make sense to disparity if they did it after Katie season, would it make sense, the disparity, if they did it after Katie's season? It would make sense. Would there have been something where ABC or the network or someone was like, we're not happy with how Katie's turned out. You have to put a lot more effort into this one.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think it could be a difference of they could go from a whole new creative team. Like this is a massive corporation. They may not go with the exact same team to do the promos, different photographers, different creatives. So it could be stylistically different. It also, I mean, the fact that they waited,

this should have been a Bachelor season, like by the books. By the books, yeah. It should have been the bachelor starting to have a season. It's just so wild. Like it almost feels like she communicated her boundaries with the producers. They wanted her so badly, similar to Emily Maynard back in the day of like, she said, these are my non-negotiables. If I need my daughter there, it was Michelle said, I don't want to miss another year of work and miss out on seeing my students. So this is what you have to do

if you want me to be the lead. Yeah, she is just incredibly likable. And yeah, I don't think Michelle... I mean, I think you're absolutely right. I don't think Michelle was someone who, like as soon as she got off filming, was like, I wonder if i could be the bachelorette you know i think she went back with her to her life and when they you know i mean

clearly she was dming guys she was yeah i also love that i love i love that i was talked about and yeah but in terms of like the promo like the lead it's not like they're they're not sitting down with the lead being like so what would you like to see there? You're, you just don't have that much input. Yeah. But either way they, they crushed it on the promo. Michelle's incredibly likable. Natalie,

when I watch it with Natalie, she's, she's been giving some zingers. So I, I take some notes and cause some of them I like, I want to use, but I want to give her credit. Cause I'm like,

you know, so she's, she did. You tweet out her quotes. She doesn't. Well, I don't want to use, but I want to give her credit. Because I'm like, you know. You tweet out her quotes? She doesn't. Well, I don't want to. Natalie. Bye, Natalie. I call them Natalie's notes.

One of the things, one of her notes was, I'm so excited for better style this season. Oh, yeah. Or one of Natalie's notes. Well, honestly, I would say Tayshia had really good style as well. Tayshia always has good style. Yeah. But I think right off the bat episode one

we see uptick. You know, that was a Natalie note. That night one dress was like stunning. Yeah. So stunning. And it was like I felt like the perfect combination

of like tasteful but then also like Sexy. Sexy. So sexy. She also said Michelle's eyes were soul catching. One of the guys said that too, right?

Or he could see her soul or something. Did they? Yeah, one of them said that. Well, Natalie said soul-catching before any of the guys came out. I was just like, that's a great way to describe. She does have beautiful eyes. Eyes. Like crushing on Michelle, apparently.

So before we meet all the guys, we see the intro packages. They're nice. And what was really interesting, and I'm curious about your thoughts, Kathy, because the intro packages are always nice and you get to see these guys and their element and it's flattering and we have some nice music.

It's meant to make us like these guys, right? Enjoy these guys. And then all of a sudden, we had this new wrinkle with Caitlyn and Tayshia snooping around these guys' hotel and seeing these guys in a very natural element.

And at first when I saw that, I hated it because I was like, I don't want to see these guys in sweatpants on the couch, you know, on their bed before, like before I see them come out of the limo. Like I want to like see the, the, it's like a nice reveal. And we started seeing some of these guys like, you know, sitting in a hotel room, like that's kind of later what, and then I, we find out why they showed this, but what was your, did you like that?

Did you, do you hope to see that in the future? Because I kind of hated it. Yeah. So at first I thought that it was very, it was due to COVID of, I wasn't sure if they were still having people quarantine for two weeks solo in their hotel rooms. And this was just something that was like

the first day that they're out of the potential quarantine of this. They, you know know Tayshia and Caitlyn show up but towards the end of the episode and like when they strategically found um the notes it felt very producery it felt like the producers knew about this or they yeah 100 yeah Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Because like when they first started showing it, I was like, this is weird. Why are they going through people's shit? Like, is this a new thing?

And like I said, I didn't like... Wasn't there an MTV show where it was like you date based on their room? Like you go to three people's rooms and you would like go and you'd check out like their stuff and then you'd pick your date based off of what was in their bedroom. This is like back in the day. I've dated myself. It was like 10

years ago. I don't remember, but I could see that being a thing. But like, I just, I didn't like it solely from a career. Like I didn't like the new wrinkle. It's just because clearly that's what I thought. I'm like, Oh, they're, they're in a hotel room. Let's just maybe, you know, the intro package is they have a finite number. It's just,'ll do, I don't know, five or six, depending on timing and location. There were some great guys in there. Yeah, they seemed really great. And I was just like, oh, right off the bat, I liked Joe.

Here he is remodeling, also soul-catching eyes. Yeah, from Minnesota. From Minnesota. And they seemed really nice. And then they're like, oh, here are these guys in their room. And I was just like, I just didn't like the vibe. It took away from the episode. Like a lot of time was spent on that.

Yeah. And I think, I mean, later in the night when they really got into it, a lot of the guys didn't even get time with her because… Well, about that, we'll break that down. But you realize after… It was funny because they went through like one guy's… One or two guys' room. Like, hey, we'll break that down. But you realize after it was funny. Cause they went through like one guy's one or two guys room, like, Hey, we're doing this. And then you found out, Oh, this is why you're doing this. So clearly what happened is, you know, during,

yeah, there's a quarantine period. So at that point, I'm sure there's like, there's no activity. Like you're literally in your room, but once typically before COVID, uh, guys would go to the hotel room and you're there for like three or four days. And some of those days are spent, you know, doing photo shoots, doing kind of your first interviews, warming you up. The photo shoot with the notorious backdrop. Yeah. Like the grade school photo shoots and things like that. So they're doing stuff like that. And then you're just sitting around in a hotel room. So various producers will come in and out. You're just kind of getting to know them. They're

asking you questions and just kind of feeling you out. And 100% while that was happening, they found those notes or maybe even Ryan mentioned it or something. it or something. We'll get into it later, but I'm prepared to look at that with a 30... Take a step back. It'd be really easy to just shit

on this Ryan guy. I have questions. How many people I would say in the past take him out of the equation? How many people in the past have not known anything about Bachelor, have had notes coming in? Not negative notes like that of what to say and what to do, but it's like there are certain things. I mean, yeah. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. Okay. We'll get into it. But yes, I have questions. I also, I don't believe that they

went to all of the guys' rooms. I feel like they went to four. They did that intentionally. No, they found those notes. I don't know how they found those notes, whether Ryan mentioned it or they found it. And they're like, we got, these are great. How do we use it? Yeah. So they got Caitlin and Tayshia to go to a couple guys' rooms to show it. There's nothing in there.

And yeah, it was 100% for that. I'm guessing we'll never see this again. Yeah. It was solely for that to make it seem like caitlin and tasia accidentally found those notes and that is i'm confident in saying that's not how it actually went down so we'll dive into that when it went in a second well fall is upon us and we'll be out there tailgating enjoying the fall beautiful weather because it comes and goes.

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at drinkhuzzah.com that's code v-i-a-l-l for 20 off at drinkhuzzah.com h-u-z-z-a-h.com on wondery's podcast even the rich co-hosts Brooke and Arcia share their stories behind some of the most famous and infamous people in history and speaking of infamous that's right Murdoch's isn't he the founder of Fox News well whatever you think of Rupert Murdoch fascinating story for those of you like to show succession HBO HBO, which I do, it sounds like this family was loosely based off of Rupert Murdoch's family. So find out how he came to be who he was and do what he does. And truly kind of a fascinating episode behind the darkness that is their family. Since the early 60s, Rupert has gone from the founder of a small newspaper to the most

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How many basketball players do we have on this season? Well, or just guys who have played basketball. Every guy is like, I'm great at one on one. Yeah, a couple NBA drafts. One NBA draft. But I was just like, no, I think great at one-on-one. Yeah, a couple NBA drafts, one NBA draft, but I was just like, no, I think that's a basketball joke. I was like, maybe, because we have a couple NFL players. We have Clayton, who our new bachelor,

so we're kind of watching him more closely than others. And he had a cup of coffee in the NFL. They talk about his college football career. Mizzou, right? Mizzou, Missouri. And then they have another guy who we didn't hear from at all. And it just said NFL football player.

And I don't think we heard his voice the entire night. If we did, it might have been like a quick like, hi, Michelle. And then they did like a... Like within a montage. Like he was like part of a montage

of like, here's some other guys. you don't need to really get to know. That's what I'm saying. They took away from so much of the episode. There were like five or six guys where you got maybe one word from them. You typically see that, but I overall liked the episode. Yeah.

No, it was great. I was disappointed. Some of the guys I really liked in the limo entrance, only to realize he's not going to be a player. You know, like, you're not going to see him. For a while, PJ being the biggest disappointment. Where I was like, like, PJ, Denzel Washington vibes. Like, smooth.

But I don't think PJ is going to be around. Really? I mean, you had an excellent limo entrance. Yeah. But the reason we saw that was not because of necessarily PJ. We saw it because it was the contradiction or the juxtaposition or whatever

or the one firefighter versus another firefighter. So it was about that. It was less about the guys. And then we didn't see any conversations between pj and michelle i feel like that's always how it is with the top three of you have two that are super obvious and then you have one that you don't see for the first few weeks aka michelle i mean that was a little bit different but you don't see them for the first few weeks and then their relationship begins to develop it may have developed off camera but but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't see him for the first 10 weeks.

That's a good point. That's a good point. I hope, I hope I'm very wrong with PJ because like, when he got out of that firetruck,

I mean, everything about it was very smooth. I thought it was great. Like, he's hot. He's super hot. But she's so goofy

and like her jokes weren't landing. Like she was joking about the whole Daniel. With him? She was like, well, someone else brought a firetruck and it was bigger. Like she was like making jokes and I don't feel like they't landing. Like, she was joking about the whole Daniel thing. Yeah. She was like, well, someone else brought a firetruck

and it was bigger. Like, she was like making jokes and I don't feel like they were landing. I disagree. I completely disagree. I disagree too, yeah. I thought it was very smooth. She was like,

here, think about it. Here is this guy. You got this little firetruck guy, right? The producers are so mean for that. Nothing against little firetruck guy, right? The producers are so mean for that. Nothing against little firetruck guy. But like PJ is hotter. So like he, first of all, he comes in this big firetruck, a legit firetruck.

He comes out. As soon as he steps out, you're like, this guy's hot. He knows it. He's smooth. You immediately catch like his, like Denzel Washington vibes. And Michelle picks up on that. And that's what I loved about it is like Michelle knows,

this guy knows he's confident. And so I'm going to like, I'm going to play around. And she was like, yeah, another guy came in with the fire truck. Yeah. And like, she didn't let him know that he had a leg up on the other guy.

And she was quick to like, let him know that. had a leg up on the other guy. And she was quick to like let him know that. And not everyone would have handled it that way. I don't know if they were jokes or not, but I loved how she played along with him. Like she played with him in a ways that like it was a fun kind of move. I thought it totally landed. I love that she did that. Yeah. I agree. I just thought he was

like... Well, that's why he might not have... He might be... That was my whole point. I loved her jokes. I didn't think they landed with him. Oh, it's with him. Okay. If you think I said anything anti-Michelle for the rest of the season, know that you misunderstood. I would say... Understood, Ellie. So many of the guys, they even said it.

I was like, what the fuck? Michelle's not funny is what I heard. No. Michelle's great. But that's an excellent point. And that might be why maybe PJ is just kind of like hot, has the swag. But like when you peel back the layers, maybe there's not much there. It could have just been like an awkward, like all of them are saying,

and I'm sure you experienced this too, of when you get out of the limo or your fire truck or whatever, you're nervous. And you kind of have what's planned in your head. And if someone throws you a curveball, the first night, you're not going to like pick up any of the jokes.

You're just going to like, yes. Yes. You're beautiful. I was just going to say, I feel like it's also a facet of the show that everybody who goes on it is supposed to be like

the like so hot like absolutely used to crushing in daily life and so for a lot of the contestants it's the first time they're experiencing like real insecurity

I don't think that's as much as you oh I'm socially awkward in life like I would imagine that there's gonna be some people on the show that are just like I think that's the perception

that's not the reality half like they all they cast all good-looking guys. Half the guys do not know how to talk to women. They're not... Like, yeah, they might, like, get hit on because they're attractive, but they're not

necessarily, like, uber-confident, very charming and talkative. You got some... It's also a high-pressure situation. Like, I get awkward if a friend is watching me flirt. Like can you imagine having however many producers and like cameras

that they've never experienced. They've never done a podcast. Like a lot of them have never experienced that. I mean, when I got out of the limo, I've talked about this. I was,

I mean, I literally, I don't remember. It was, I, my body filled up with anxiety and like I got comfortable real quick and I, my body filled up with anxiety. And like,

I got comfortable real quick and I got the first impression rose that night. But nevertheless, like that limo exit, like I don't care who you are or even if you can be charming, I was just, it was a mess. Which is why like when Chris G came out,

my first thought was when we saw the intro package of Chris G, the motivational speaker, I was like, oh God, here we go. Carl. Well, I go, oh my God, not another motivational speaker. And now he goes, he's already better than Carl. And which I was, that was pretty funny. But I got to say, Chris G was the one who came out and serenaded that poem to Michelle. And I'm sure a lot of people hated it. Maybe some people loved it. But you have to give the man credit for delivering that the way he did. It was smooth.

It had an artistic rap style to it. Not really my cup of tea. If someone approached me at a bar with that, I wouldn't feel it, but I would have hives if someone did that to me. And it would be awkward. Did it not give you Casey vibes from Allie season of The Bachelorette when he like wouldn't stop like making songs about her? You're going way too far back.

Sorry. Petitowski? Sorry. Petitowski? Casey? Oh yeah. Like one who like got the tattoo and wouldn't stop like singing to her. Yeah. I am simply just saying. It was well delivered. Like he knows how to work a crowd.

Yes. I'm simply saying I couldn't have done what Chris did. I just want like, whether you're into that or not, he delivered that in a way that like that requires confidence. Don't ever do it, Chris. I won't. And I can't. I'm just, I just want to give the guy some props for like, it was smooth in a way that was like. Is it weird that I actually, I feel like when someone

is that smooth and that good with their words, it's almost disingenuous. Sure, yeah. Yeah. Like I would rather someone be a little bit nervous and like,

and more authentic authentic and that's what she's been asking for this entire season is like people to be authentic people to be vulnerable um not be rehearsed and yeah no totally I just I would I'm just simply pointing out that was impressive to be able to do that was just like I couldn't do that like immediately it was just like wow now he might the motive. Like immediately it was just like, wow. Now he might, the motivational speaker is like, is 100% a red flag. It just, I mean, I just don't know. You're trying to get a TED talk. He's 28 years old and he's a motivational speaker. Now he works with like younger kids. And I think that that's much different like than like Carl's website

of charging $10,000 for career planning. Like this guy talks like to the youth of the world or the youth of Canada, maybe. I don't know. But either way, it was charming. Which is a very admirable job as well. He has a Peaky Blinders vibe to him in a way. Rum Haven is the drink you need

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and you must use the link to make a donation. I don't know. I think Chris is a bit of an underdog. He might go home week two. I don't know. And yes, it's easy to rip on the poem and it would be awkward to receive. But I just wonder if we might be surprised by Chris.

I feel like Chris will be there but he'll kind of be in the background. Like he's not going to be a major player this season. That's my vibe for him. Of like he'll coast until like maybe like week, I don't know, two weeks in. I can totally see that too. Yeah.

I don't know who my underdogs are or my, yeah. I think Brandon Jay will go. He's younger but he seems very emotionally mature having to take care of his brother. Brandon Jay. And he's from, I think Brandon J will go. He's younger, but he seems very emotionally mature having to take care of his brother. Brandon J. And he's from, I think, Oregon. But he seemed great. I mean, he seemed like… Brandon J. Okay, yep.

Before being young, he seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders. He just needs to get more comfortable with her. Yeah, yeah. I don't know who my underdogs are yet, but he could be someone as well. Any other specific limo entrances? I mean, I love Nate. Can we talk about Nate for a second? Because he, I mean, it's not even a limo entrance,

but like just the package that they had for him. And then later when they got to talk that night, like it just, it felt like, it felt like a real first date. It felt like he wasn't doing fake vulnerability. He was actually, you know, talking about things that have happened in his family and his past and shared some of his, you know, worries and concerns. And she said it perfectly of like, you have to get into this. and concerns. And she said it perfectly of like, you have to get into this.

But she then praised him for being vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yes. Nate is my early... Before... When she sat down with Nate...

Yeah. ...to talk, not the... I immediately said, first impression rose, front runner to win. Yeah. And then I was... I said it out loud and I can't... Natalie would have to confirm it. Yeah. But I was like, first impression rose front runner to win. Yeah. And then I was, I said it out loud and I can't, and Natalie would have to confirm it,

but I, I, I was like first impression rose. It's between Nate and Joe for me. Well, Joe, we'll see. But,

uh, when, when we first saw Nate in the package, Natalie goes, Oh, wow. And I go like, good.

Oh, wow. She's like, yeah. Do you get jealous about that? No, no no what was interesting is when he first came on it was like i'm moving on it was the first it was the first shot and i honestly was just like i'm i'm looking at guys just well i'm like good looking like when i saw joe like piercing eyes like that's a good looking guy when i saw pj immediately i was like that's a good looking guy. When I saw PJ, immediately, I was like, that's a good looking guy.

When I first saw Nate, that first second, that wasn't my thought, but it was Natalie's thought. And I was like, interesting. And then Nate really grew up, like by the end of the episode,

I was like, he's charming. He's charming. He's good looking. He's well spoken. And it seems, and it comes from like, a place of authenticity.

Like he doesn't seem like he's trying to be smooth. No. And yet he is. And I know this sounds so stupid California-y, but he has really good energy. Yeah. No, totally.

And that's something that I've noticed too, of like, I don't come from like the family ideal situation. And that's something that like I discuss on dates or whatever, but I'm trying not to be inauthentic or like approach it with fake vulnerability. And I think that he was really good about not sharing like the line that he shares with everyone. He really wanted it to be a genuine moment. And that wasn't too thought through. It wasn't like he had notes in his bag of what to do on a date. And he goes by Nate, which

I thought, if you didn't know how he spelled his name, you would, after getting to know Nate, you would think, he doesn't look like a Nate, but he does look like a, hey, Nate. N-A-Y? You know what I'm saying?

Nate. He doesn't look like a Nate. He doesn't. He's too smooth to be like, hey, I'm saying it like Nate he doesn't look like a Nate he doesn't he's too smooth to be like hey I'm Nate but he looks like a Nate what was his full name I don't know

Babatunde Babatunde Nathaniel I think or something like that I did not because Nate is taken I think from his middle name yeah

either way like I think the Y in his spelling is I don't care it works better than N-A-T-E but I love the piercings everything works for Nate yeah he's got the earrings work for him he's got the double nose ring it like it looks super cool so we uh obviously love a little crush on Nate yeah no he's very impressive uh he's my early winner. Oh, his mom's a teacher too.

I let that down. There's a few of those. It's like, my second cousin's a teacher. You know? Like, we're all just trying to relate. I mean, I don't,

that's nice. Are we, like, and I don't blame them, but like, we're over, like, the shtick of

Caitlyn and Tayshia commentating on the intro, intros of the guys coming out. I'm over it. And I'm not faulting them because they're probably like, the producers are like, do this and giving an opportunity to be on TV. But it's like they were acting as if the two of them have never seen... We're talking about two former leads so they've seen the limo exits and they're like oh my god it's an ice cream truck is this like come on do

you think this is a setup though of they're making them not look like great hosts because they want to introduce jesse in a way where people really i don't know like him more as the host? I thought that last night. Yeah. Like they're specifically going out of their way to not make them look hosty. I don't think they're maybe trying to make them look bad, but I think you're not going

to see Jesse do that. I mean, I certainly hope not. Yeah, I feel like from the beginning, like just from the fact that it's two of them and from the fact that they have them doing

very like gals gabbing, watching the show with you vibes the whole time, I feel like they haven't really legitimized them as any kind of figure of authority or stability. But that's the thing is, I genuinely believe that them being there will help whoever is the

bachelorette or the lead learn more about the process and it'll actually help them pick someone that's great in the future as opposed to having just a generic host. I couldn't agree more. I mean, we talked about the process, and it'll actually help them pick someone that's great in the future as opposed to having just a generic host. I couldn't agree more. I mean, we talked about the hiring of Jesse and like what we can expect and not expect.

And like Jesse is the host of the show. I would be shocked if he adds any real value to the experience of The Bachelor at all. To me, I feel like they chose him to be the host because he looks the part. He is a great host. And they want that male viewership of like,

he has the sports background. Yeah, you'll have some cross. Men might feel like they can tune in or... Cross promotion for sure. They couldn't get Lil Jon, so they had to go with him. Yeah.

You know, why, you know, those I think all make sense, but you're right. They're not going to add any value. And I think you're going to have moments where Caitlin and Tayshia will add value and that sit down. Yeah. I just really hated the watching from afar and pretending to be shocked by these things.

Totally. It was just, it was, yeah, I hated it for them. Yeah. And yes. Would that not be our commentary though, if we were sitting on a balcony in the, it was, yeah, I hated it for them. Yeah. And yes. Would that not be our commentary though, if we were sitting on a balcony in the, you know, hotel? I mean, yeah, if you made me say like commentate, like, I don't know what, how I would go about it.

Look at that little fire truck. Whatever. Again, I hated it for them. You know, like it was, they were given an opportunity and they use this, but like, I don't think Caitlin and Tish were like, you know what we want to do? We want to watch from afar and try

to make jokes. And be the most giggly we've ever been in like school. It's just like, you know, I think you're getting reactions that obviously are edited in and we have no idea whether a reaction that they had had anything to do with what they showed it to be. So like, it just looked

kind of awkward and clunky. Can we talk about how I just found it really upsetting that parents would name their child Jack Russell? Did you not catch that? I didn't. He was the one in the white jacket. The former. He said that just like a Jack Russell, he is playful. He is loyal. He is attentive. The only thing he didn't say is that he like pees to mark his territory or something like, I don't know. It was very, his, his limo entrance was interesting. He, yeah, he was kind of quirky. I mean, he's already gone.

Yeah. I, it was an interesting outfit choice. Yes. He kind of quirky. I mean, he's already gone. Yeah. It was an interesting outfit choice. Yes, he kind of looked very much like a waiter. Whatever. Jack, is his last name?

His last name was Russell. Yeah. Jack Russell. That's a dick move by a parent. I know. Like you were setting your kid up to be made fun of on a podcast.

Yeah. Chris, Chris S., a bit of a try-hard, you know, spunky. He's the fun guy. He's trying to win you over with his personality. Why did we see so much of him? Because we're going to see

a lot of him. He was like really, really heavily featured. Honestly, when they showed his intro package, I really liked him. And then when it came to his limo entrance, I was a little bit turned off. Oh yeah. With the shorts. Chris has getting sent home on a one-on-one written all over him. Or two-on-one. Yes. He's a two-on-one. You know, I don't, yeah, he, I could see him getting in a fight with someone, but he is

getting, he's not going, he is getting sent home on a date. He'll have some sort of like... Because he will have some sort of exit without... He won't just not get a rose. Yeah. Because he will be valuable and he'll be talkative and he'll insert himself in the drama and he'll get friend attention. He'll be on Bachelor in Paradise for sure.

Yeah, he'll get friend attention from Michelle. And Michelle will then send him home on a one-on-one or a two-on-one. Yeah. I really liked out of all of the creative entrances we've seen, the buffet cart. You liked that? I thought it was hilarious. I mean, like, great for television. Not that I would date someone who showed up in a buffet cart.

He's just having fun. He seems like the type of guy who could pull it off. Yeah. He also has catching eyes. Did he have eyeliner on? He had like glassy or like kind of teary eyes.

Yeah. There's something weirdly magnetic about his eyes. Yes. And I thought about that. And then I was like, because it was dark in the under eye. And is that just a very distinct eyelash?

Or is it some sort of mascara? Either way, And then I was like, because it was dark in the under eye. And is that just a very distinct eyelash? Or is it some sort of mascara? Either way, they're captivating eyes. Yeah. But he seems very charming. This is Rick, right? Yeah. What do we think of Peter?

The Italian pizza maker. Oh, the cannolis. I kind of like him. When he just threw the dough. That was weird. That was weird. His intro was off. The cannolis were better than the pizza. The cannoli moment was better than the throwing of the pizza.

I think we might learn to like him. He's like charmingly earnest. Where he was like, how have you never had a cannoli? There was something about him I kind of dug. Like, not for Michelle and... How did you feel about his sparkly black coat? Loved it?

He is a caricature of himself. Showing up authentically though. Yes. But I think he... I think what we might... If we end up liking him, it's going to be because he is confident in who he is. And he is going to wear a sparkling suit.

And he's going to lean into his culture. He is like the epitome of this emoji. Yeah. But he's always going to have a good time. And I think he'll surprise you with some soft moments. If we like them, that's what it'll be. It'll be someone who's just,

he'll be in paradise, like eating pizza off some girls. Like this isn't an act. He's just like, knows how to have fun. And this is who he is. And he has a good time is my hope for, for Peter.

I was like, cause at first it was like, Oh, here we go. He's throwing it. Like he just like whipped the pizza dough. And then when he sat down with, with Michelle, it was like, cause at first it was like, Oh, here we go. He's throwing it. Like he just like whipped the pizza dough. And then when he sat down with, with Michelle,

I was like, I don't know, man. Like I could see us kind of thinking, you know what? I kind of like you, Peter. I don't know.

We'll see. We'll, we'll see if we get that right. Let's, let's get into the Joe conversation. Okay. First, loved,

loved the admission from Michelle about sliding in to his DMs. Like, first of all, it's modern. It's relatable to the times. COVID. Everyone's been there. You have a woman like Michelle who's empowered. She's the bachelorette. And yet the authenticity of, I can slide into a guy's DM. I's the bachelorette. And yet, the authenticity of,

I can slide into a guy's DM. I can hit on a guy. I'm the one asking him out. We get so many questions about like, should a guy, should he make the first move and blah, blah, blah. She was on The Bachelor

and she's choosing someone who's just a normal guy who lives in her hometown. Yeah. We don't know the timing of when she slipped though. She said, it was right before,

it was, I would say at the beginning of when she slid, though. She said it was right before, it was, I would say, at the beginning of COVID because he was saying the stuff about the George Floyd protest. And if you look at the timing of that, that was pretty much like... Was that before she filmed that season or after? Well, that would have been June of 2020. Oh. That was before Matt's.

Oh, wow. Okay. I think, but we don't know for sure. But either way, whether she slid into it afterwards or before, I just loved that you have the Bachelorette in power. She's the queen. She's chasing him a little bit. I slid into your... I just loved that.

It was... And it was just great. I don't know why... It was such an interesting dynamic, though, for night one because I feel like normally we see all of these people pursuing the Bachelorette or the lead. And this time it felt a little flipped. Like it felt like the power was in his court.

Even she was like, wait, where are you going? As he walks away. Yes. She recognized him. She couldn't place him. He's playing hard to get. I don't know if he's playing hard to get. I mean, she got power. In that moment, yeah. When he was walking away and he's like,

I'll tell you inside. Well, it kind of reminded me a little bit when Liz showed up on my season night one and we had met. And like, again, it's night one. So like Michelle has a million things going on. But you weren't like, where did I meet you? Well, when she came out, I was shocked. I was just like, wait, I first thought was, I know her. And I did never expect someone that I knew to come. And then it was like, that's lit. And so there was a lot going on in my head. Totally.

And so I, kind of like Michelle, she recognized him right at first, but probably thought there's no way. But they didn't wet in person. Exactly. Placing someone from an Instagram profile is very different. Or placing someone from an Instagram profile is very different. Or placing someone after a drunk wedding is not much easier.

Just, you know. But Michelle was trying to play some. Totally. My only critique of Michelle this episode is it's not ghosting. When someone you're talking to in your DMs doesn't respond. We just don't know the extent of it. Like what if it was, hey, let's do a date. And then you don't hear from them. Like if you have something planned and then you don't hear from someone, that's kind of... It's something. It's rude.

A soft ghost. A soft ghost. Well, we've been on this kick. I've been on this kick of all these like terms love bombing gaslighting ghosting they are now being watered down so it's just

you disappeared like what happened yeah ghosting there's people listening who have dated someone or gone on multiple dates hooked up

and had someone just disappear yeah and that feels like a psychological torture. And that's ghosting. Sliding in someone's DMs, having a couple like talking about basketball

or whatever, your favorite place to get pizza in Minnesota. And then like having them not respond is just like it's flaking or it's rude. I feel like there was something more significant. It's just not ghosting. It felt like there was more significance than a couple exchange DMs

because of the way that she said, hey, like what happened to you? And he had to explain, I mean, legitimate excuse of what was going on in the world at the time. But like, it felt like there was something more significant than like two or three DMs exchanged. Maybe, maybe not. And what I loved about what Michelle did

is that either way, like, because Michelle's just talking about like, hey, listen, like just have basic manners. Yeah. Like just communicate the basic things. And regardless of whether you want to call it ghosting or flaking, we are now in a time and we're dating in a time where access and dating apps and DMs, people are so accessible. And as a result in the real world, we have become incredibly inconsiderate to everyone in the dating pool. And we can match with 10 people and we can send a couple messages and like just never respond. And we kind of as a dating society pass that off as like normal. And I kind of love that even if it was a couple messages that Michelle was just like, you could have just been like, hey, I like... I mean, I don't think ghosting is a new concept

I think that you know back in the you know 70s you just wouldn't get a phone call again or like back in the 1800s you'd never get a letter and you'd wonder if they died

well that's what I'm saying that's just what it is ghosting started but yeah it should be when people disappeared on you she wants someone who's able to communicate yeah

and whether that's you know saying something good or just explaining like, hey, I started dating someone. Hey, it's a really weird time right now. I don't feel like I'm in a place to date. Whatever that is, I think that communication needs to be more prevalent in today's dating society. Totally. And so even if it was a couple messages, I kind of almost hope that it was still a couple messages and Michelle was like, I don't care. Common decency.

Everyone should just have the maturity to just say, hey, you seem great, but like, I'm just not in a place right now. And not just not respond. And I love that Michelle did that. The fact that she pulled him, the way she just handled that whole thing, you know, when she first pulled him,

you know, she sat him down and she said, hey, listen, because right off the bat, what is the obvious concern is I talked to you, we had some sort of relationship, whatever it is, and then I didn't hear from you. Until I became the bachelorette. Until I became the bachelorette. So the big question is... Why now? Why now? You could have... My DMs are still open. You could have... From whatever... That was almost

a year and a half ago. I've never heard from you. And now I hear from you? Come on. So that's the obvious question. So she sits him down. she challenges him, and then he very sincerely gives his reasoning, which for a lot of people, you would just be like, oh shit. Like, okay, well, let me think about it. And you would, like I said, I think if someone... If you're still in the people pleaser mentality, you're going to say, oh, yeah. And I think it is a totally legitimate excuse. I think what she wants, though, and I think it will hopefully help other people have this conversation in their own personal lives of I just need communication. And this is what I expect when dating someone. So if you are going to continue to pursue this, this is what I need moving forward. Totally. Because I don't think we can overstate the maturity and how she handled that. And I don't

think most people would do what she did. Every step of the way, she got it perfect. She first talked to him on a very non-authoritating threatening way like as the bachelorette she's just like hey just calmly like you could because you can you can be like why are you here? You know like you have a position of power and she didn't use her power that she could have when she

confronted him. He told this very sincere story that for a lot of people like you said you would just be like oh okay like I don't want to ruffle flowers. She even said, she's like, I went through that too. Yeah. So she related to him. She empathized with him. She made sure that he was being heard and she wanted him to know that. And I honestly thought it was going to end right there. And then she just said, and went right into it. And she's like, communication's big. And that might all still be true, but I can still expect you to

communicate when it's difficult. And we talk about this all the time. It's not about how you communicate when it's easy to communicate. It's how you communicate when it's awkward or challenging or stressful times. And Michelle is laying that groundwork. And I just thought that was really significant. And I don't think a lot of people in her position and I include myself in that would have necessarily handled it like that in that moment on night one with the stakes being as high as they are.

Yeah. And I just thought it was really impressive. She's excellent at communicating and yeah, like I said, masterclass in how to communicate your standards and boundaries. But yeah, I mean, like you said, there's so many things that you could have communicated, like not that this was his situation, but just saying something like, oh, I'm dating someone right now. I don't like dating

more than one person at a time, or, you know, I'm really busy with work. I have to prioritize that. And I do want, I am interested in dating you, but I need to put that off two months from now so that, you know, I don't see you one time and then not be able to be consistent. Whatever that is, just say how you're truly feeling. And if that's your person, they're going to understand. Totally. Because like you said, we're trying to figure out what was the extent of that relationship. And my guess, it was something like she slid into DMs, he responded, a couple messages back and forth, and she sent a message like, so like, what do you do on your free time? And he never responded to that, which is kind of like why you couldn't-

Left her on read off for a question or something notable. Yeah, something like that. And to your point, like he could have been like, hey, it's like, I like going to Jimmy's on Wednesdays or whatever. Also, like, you seem great, but I'm going to be honest with you. Like, right now, like, I just don't know if I'm like, maybe we could be friends or... Yeah. I just met someone.

I started dating, actually. I went on a good date yesterday. I want to see where it goes. Or, I mean... I'm not dating right now. It's tough to say something like, I'm not dating right now. It's tough to say something like, I'm emotionally exhausted right now. Like, it's hard for me to keep up

with things at this moment. Like, I am very interested in you, but I can't date at this time. And even if it's not, like, because, you know, there are strangers that's the point. We don't expect people to like pour their heart out

to a stranger. You just simply can respond is her point. Saying nothing is worse than. Yes. But, you know, props to Joe for like, I love the therapy. We're talking about therapy on night one, you know, an adult man, like acknowledging in, you know, anxiety and wanting therapy. I love that for the show.

I love, you know, so that was great. So yeah, I just really love how she handled that. Anything like Jamie, I mean, she clearly likes Jamie. I, that was kind of like,

I didn't expect that. He just kind of came out. There was no like, necessarily like, he didn't do a thing. He just talked to her and then you could tell she immediately

was drawn to Jamie. You know, like there are specific people on the show. Jamie is to her and then you could tell she immediately was drawn to Jamie. You know, like there are specific people on the show. Jamie is one of them who I feel like she's already building a connection with. And that's something that

I feel like we've lacked in previous seasons. We might see one person have a connection with the lead, but she's really good at having deeper conversations. They're less superficial. Or maybe we're just seeing more of that on night one.

Yeah. Also, it could be the producers getting it right. It's a luck of the draw, the people they cast versus who's going to connect with the lead. We have Nate. We have Jamie. Two guys. She seems to be like specifically like already comfortable with a bit of a connection I mean when she said to Jamie there are no awkward moments

with you I immediately felt like I thought about that a lot yeah in a sense of like it's just easy I don't like I don't I don't know like I felt like, I don't know if anyone would say that about me. You know, like, there's no... You know, because when I was younger, I learned a lesson. For me, it was like, don't try to be funny and don't try to say something

if it's not genuine at the risk of just being quiet. Oh. So sometimes that can lead to awkwardness on our first date. Which is so wild to me because you have so many siblings. I would feel like you would just be constantly surrounded by people that are talking and be so socially inclined.

I can be very charming when I want to and very talkative, but I can also be awkward and quiet. Yeah. And when you just don't know what to say, like, I just, for, in that environment, for Michelle to say to Jamie, there are no awkward moments with you, I was like, that's a really specific and cool compliment. Yeah. And one, I was envious of Jamie. How did you feel about when he told her,

this is our show, they're just watching? That was a little weird. I forgot about that. I missed that. No, he was referring to the other guys because they were like bonding on the couch

and he was like, oh, this is our show they're just watching and she started laughing. That was an awkward laugh though. Like she was laughing but it felt... It's just a line.

I don't know. Well, it's also... There's a lot of people who work in sales this season which makes me wonder kind of like what Michelle's type is going into it because it's...

I wonder if Michelle is someone who maybe likes a guy who's a little bit more confident, like a little bit more like verbally. She likes firefighters who play basketball that their moms are teachers from Texas and their personal trainers that also work in sales. Fire. I mean, you're like Michelle's of a former collegiate athlete. I think she likes athletic guys. A lot of athletes, especially collegiate athletes, end up in sales. That's a very natural progression. Says the collegiate athlete who ended up in sales. I mean, it just is.

The sales companies will look for... What do you play in college? Track. Oh, okay. They're specifically looking for that. So that's why you're getting a lot of that. I think that makes sense. One comment that I thought was funny that Natalie

said, she said, he looks like the guy who would follow you around at a bar. What a specific critique. And one that I don't... Is specific from a woman's point of view. Is it mean to say who? She said, he looks like the guy who would follow you around at a bar. I thought that was a little harsh, but funny.

And yeah, as just a general note, as always, we don't know these people. We're commenting on from what we see on the show. I'm sure they're all swell guys. Swell. Swell. I remember, what did Edward do? Oh, he did the sound bath. Yeah. And calmed her. Yeah. Yeah. He's also went home. Yeah. I love sound baths though. I was calmed in that moment. There's a couple of TikToks that I follow where they just play like... Just sound bath TikToks. Yeah.

It's great. Very relaxing. Yeah. Very relaxing. Are you going to buy your own for home? No. No. You should do it.

I also really like Will. I don't know how long he'll be around, but he was like, I bring the flavor. I just thought... An academic interventionist. I'm sure that's actually a very legitimate job about like. What is that though? Okay. What I assume, this is total guess, is that it's they identify students who are maybe

not like thriving in the academic environment and like give them the support they need before they drop out or become disillusioned with school. But it makes it sound like there's people who are like addicted to academia. And then he comes in and he's like, we need to talk about your bibliographies. Maybe. Yeah. You know what? I like them.

I don't know. I hope to see more of Will. Rick from the one with the eyeliner looks like the guy from Lost. His eyes. I said he reminded me of an actor. I don't know who. It's the guy from Lost. And also, maybe the magician guy.

Do you know them? Which one is the magician? Oh, Romeo. No. No. He's a mathematician. Mathematician and spoke French. I didn't know what? Oh, Romeo. No, no. He's a mathematician. Mathematician and spoke French. I didn't know what to make of Romeo.

It was like, is he going to be... There's going to be a moment in this season where she is on a balcony and he comes and approaches her. They're going to do that because that's a total... You can see the date card now. He's going to serenade.

It's like Romeo, Romeo. But what I don't know is... Or they're going to make Chris G serenade her and then Romeo's going to walk out and be like, wait, I thought I was supposed to do that. Does he have... Is he a real competitor? He's very smart.

I mean, he spoke a second language. He's a mathematician. He lives in New York City. He's good looking. He's in his room calculating his odds of him getting a rose. I couldn't figure out if this like is a week three guy or a top four guy.

But I'm just... I don't think that he'll bring enough drama to make him last the entire time. Well, that's what I'm saying. When I say week three guy or top four guy is the top four is made up of the people Michelle is interested in. And the drama people are a bunch of people who Michelle isn't interested in who make good TV. That's how you get your like the middle of the pack, right? Like you can have a bunch,

you can have four boring people. And if the lead is into you, you're good because it is about finding love. And if you are... Which is funny because they're probably not boring. They're just not getting screen time because it's not interesting for television. They're normal. Your grocery store Joe's, right? He went home night one. Totally. And he's obviously had a very unique career on the show.

Yeah. Very good looking, nice guy. He's told the story. He got really nervous. But Joe is a relatively normal, nice guy. Great personality. the story he got really nervous but like joe is a relatively normal nice guy and not great personality not gonna show up and try to like outshine people with like what he calls his personality and as a result you know for whatever reason you put personality

his personality i'll tell you why because a lot of people guys will come in and say i'm gonna win them over with my personality and they're're not authentic. They're showy. Yeah. They're, it's not who they are. Yeah. They're trying too hard to like stand out. This is like what you were talking about earlier. Don't, don't force jokes.

Don't. Yeah. Like Chris, like Chris showed up and was like, I'm on a TV show, very self-aware and that's fine. I'm not faulting him for it. But there are other people who just I'm going to show up and see what happens

totally and grocery store Joe showed up Becca wasn't into him and the dude went home night one only to come and be like a star

in Bachelor Nation yeah and that's what I'm saying it's just like the difference between people who go home week one and week two and are the top two

is the person is the lead's interest in them you know and so they can be boring and be in your top three if you know so that's what i'm saying romeo might not be great tv and he might not you know do all these things but what if michelle could be into him yeah who do you think are gonna get in fights this season? Oh, I think Chris is going to be... Chris is your this season's... Ruffles and feathers? No, he's this season's Trey.

Okay. You know, I think he'll be... I could see him be generally liked in the house. He'll always have an opinion. You know, he'll be a good guy kind of thing i don't know chris g i feel like chris g we're gonna we saw enough of him and they focus on him that i feel like he is going to i don't know how in what role but whether uh someone michelle's into or a villain or just part of drama, we're going to see some Chris G.

I mean, Joe could still be a villain. Easily. Okay. I mean, easily be a villain. They'll get into the whole thing of them potentially knowing each other from home. That causes some drama with the guys based on teasers.

And Joe could be gone by week two. I feel like he's going to be there for the long haul like I think that this was a mistake that he owned up to and I think he is going to make up for it moving forward. I liked

Joe. I loved his intro package. I immediately was like I like this guy. It makes sense. It makes sense. I mean they both have beautiful eyes like that alone. I loved his intro package. I immediately was like, I like this guy. It makes sense. It makes sense. I mean, they both have beautiful eyes. Like that alone. I mean, I really like Joe. And I said when I'm watching it,

I'm like, I don't want him to be a villain, but he could. I'm just saying he could go home next week if like you could see, like we often get like early drama, like a Thomas. If you saw thomas episode one or two you wouldn't think this guy is going to burn out by week three or four totally yeah

and so i'm just saying you could see that with joe i think he's either going to go home fairly early he'll be an early villain or he will be in it for the long haul. I don't see like a middle of the pack. I would say if he goes back to his room and he really thinks about what he wants to say because he said even in that moment, he was caught off guard when she did confront him about everything. And that's something that you've had a year or two

to think over. Yeah. And especially a couple weeks in your hotel two to think over. Yeah. And especially a couple weeks in your hotel room to think over of what you are going to say. And I don't think he expected her to come across that way. Totally. And in fairness to Joe, I love that Michelle called him out for that.

I love that she held him accountable, but we've all not responded. That's the thing. We're all bad at this. Like that's, that's why I love Michelle, that Michelle did that. And so totally believable, whatever the reason that he was just like,

I don't know, I just didn't respond to you. And I kind of forgot. And then when you went on the show, I, it clicked. And then I was like, you know what? Why don't I meet this girl? Yeah. It could be totally authentic. Why didn't you

DM her? Yeah, it could be totally authentic and you can see why he comes on and they fall in love. Totally believable start to a love story. Well, he's also the only one who's even remotely from Michelle's region. I thought there was one

other person from Minnesota. I don't think that matters at all. Is that not something that you think there would be like a shift towards in the show? Only for grocery store Joe. That is a non-negotiable. I think it's nice to have if you are into this person, but like you're

not. Michelle's going to be on Dancing with the Stars. They're going to be in LA. You're just not yeah, like. Do you think there should be like more of a conversation about feasibility and viability of these relationships outside of the show?

I think they do. And that's something of like, love isn't enough. Of you have to have shared values. You have to have, you know, shared vision for the future. And I know that you know this from being on the show.

If you're going to have those discussions of where are we going to move after the show? Are we going to move to my hometown? Am I moving to yours? Are we moving somewhere else like LA, New York, whatever, Nashville? And if that doesn't line up, then obviously it's not going to work out in the future. Yeah. They will sometimes talk about it. Vanessa and I talked about it on my season towards the end. She lived in Canada and so it was part of the show. And so I guess what I'm saying is they may talk about it if one of the contestants in a relationship, they have a connection, it'll come up. But for the lead, I don't think the show prioritizes connections as much as, you know, like they're making a TV show.

So like they're hoping that the leads into like three or four. And so as someone who accepts the role of the bachelorette and the bachelor, there's an immense amount of pressure to have this workout, to find love. Like there is a true pressure. And so I think you just want to feel a connection. So like, that's why the location is a nice to have, but you're, if you're just not into someone like, you know, when people come up to you and it's like, I'm from Wisconsin, you're like, cool. You're not like immediately like, Oh, let's exchange numbers and be best friends. Like it's great. You're from my hometown. Do you think the producers

knew about Joe and her sharing DMs prior to casting him? Like, do you think he said something? Yes. Okay. I was, I was curious about that of if it just happened to be, you know, completely. Either that or Joe fully prepared to bring it up right away. He didn't look like he was trying to hide it. Even when Michelle was like, I recognize you. Yeah. He was like, that's just, was that what I wasn't sure about of if the producers were like, Oh, this is a good looking guy from Minnesota. This could be a great match for her. Not knowing that they had already exchanged messages prior, or he was in the casting process. And he's like, actually like if it, and they're like, it might be Michelle. He process and he's like actually like if it and they're

like it might be michelle he's like oh actually like we we chatted a while ago well there's no way to think that they would know without him admitting it totally right that's just what i was curious about if they did know or they didn't and that's a good question who knows but if you're joe and you're trying to get on the show, you're just like, can I be honest with you guys? Michelle slid in my DMs and I didn't write back.

At the same time, a producer's light bulb would go off. Yes. But if he was worried about not getting on the show, oh, if we've already talked, maybe they won't want me to, won't want to cast me.

I mean, a lot, and a lot of casts will, like, withhold information for fear of what the producers will do. That's a good question. I'd be curious if he acknowledged it or not.

Get him on the show. He sure didn't seem like he was hiding it. Yeah. Definitely. You know? I mean, she called him out on it immediately.

Sure. But the way he responded didn't come across as that defensive. You know what I'm saying? Because had he been like, oh, I don't know. My guess is he was prepared to talk about it. Yeah.

And whether he told the producers or not. Not defensive like Ryan. Let's get into Ryan. Oof. Every time he said something, his story changed. Yes. Which is just a characteristic of lying. Yes. There's a great book that I'm reading about lying and it really discusses

if you are lying about something, then you have to keep your story straight and how difficult that is and how you just shouldn't do it under any circumstance. And this just seemed all over the place of, oh, well, they're my friend's wife's notes and they're my notes. And then like, even in his exit interview, he was like, and they're actually several of my female friend's notes. Yes.

However. Yeah. So like what we saw. Yeah. Like what the show showed us, it looked gross and weird. And we love that Michelle sent him home. 100%. But watching it, I'm just trying to think about, it would be very easy to pile on Ryan. And I'm just wondering, knowing how the show works, you know, like we

talked about notes, notes, these are written notes. And for whatever reason, you kind of mentioned when we opened up the show, like who hasn't like prepped or watched the show or tried to look at previous people in your head? Like, so what is it weirder that he wrote them down rather than what if people had notes in their head, You know, what if- Totally. And- I write notes in my app all the time. Yeah. And I know there are people listening to this podcast that if they had a brother-in-law or a friend of their husband's go on the show

and their friend didn't watch it, maybe they signed their friend up and they're like, I have never seen the show. And there's plenty of people listening to this podcast who would write out notes, things like act like Jason Tardik or act like, you know, Mike Johnson. Like that's completely believable that a friend of us, like a super fan who knows someone who went on the show would be like, let me, let me tell you about it. And sometimes people's brains are a little more analytical, how we learn.

I'm thinking about these variables of like, we want to stage these written notes as like creepy and strategic and whatever. And I'm just wondering if like, what if he just had these like, I'm just trying to figure it out. Okay. So my thing about all of it is I don't mind the notes as much as the lying. The lying about it is where he said it seemed inauthentic when he said that he only watched two hours of the show. I feel like he watched her entire season and he took notes on her.

And that's just speculation. But it felt inauthentic when he said that. And then he kept on changing his story as to who the notes were from throughout the entire episode. I completely agree. And so in these tough situations, like any of us, when we're in tough situations and we get caught doing something we didn't think was wrong, I don't think Ryan thought what he did was wrong. You know what I'm saying? And whether that matters to people or not. Then why would he lie about it if he didn't think it was wrong. You know what I'm saying? And whether that matters to people or not. Why would he lie about it if he didn't think it was wrong?

Well, I think that's what's interesting, right? Because he's getting called out. Yeah. Getting called out by Michelle. And then he's being interviewed by producers we saw in the hallway. So we often get caught not realizing we did something wrong. And the moment we're like, oh, fuck. And then that's the good point though. In those moments, how do we choose to handle it? Do we choose to just come out and just say it or are we trying to get out of it?

And Ryan seemed like he was trying to get out of it. And maybe if he would have just been like, it's like he was trying to maybe tell the truth, but he didn't know what to say. So he said what he thought he should say rather than just the truth. And I think that's how it came across. And that's the big sin. Just say, I'm really surprised that this is brought up. I did bring these notes on and it was because I was so nervous and I wanted to do well because I think that you're a really

great person. Yeah. Because when he said to Michelle, it was my, like, it was a friend's notes. I was like, oh, okay. Well that, that's believable. But then when Michelle's reading the notes, some of the things about, you know, again, looking like Jason or Mike Johnson, I don't, I'm not faulting him for that, but the, I really, I would really love to see these notes. I would really curious if the notes still exist. You should tweet them out. The producers like like I'm really curious because you know pretend like

what's the it's a fine line. Like learning wanting to relate to your date and learning about teachers is one thing. These are key phrases to say during the season. Pretending to like show an interest in teachers is another.

Like key phrases a bit disingenuous. Now, except, except how many times have we watched the show and whether they have written notes or not, guys are coming in. And I say guys, because I think many of these guys aren't like maybe half of them are fans and the other half like are familiar with the show, but don't watch it. And how many guys come in and talk like they've been watching the show for 20 years. You know what I'm saying? So like, yeah, it looks weird in a note, but like, there's a lot of people who come on the show and give you what sounds like very bachelorette lines or all jump the racing and, and picking them up. They all like, you've seen this shit, bro. Another cause for concern though. And I think this could have just been editing. It could have been, um, you know, the producers including it. But one of the guys did

say that he came off as super cocky and, and confident. And then there was in the notes, it said, you are sometimes too cocky and arrogant and arrogant. Yeah. So tone that down. But what'd you see, that's what was interesting to me though because that was clearly from a friend. Yeah. And I thought that was like,

I felt for Ryan in that moment. I felt like, could you imagine? I have guy friends that I would never set up with any girl. Like,

I know that they would ruin their lives. No, no, no. I know, but like, could you imagine you're going on a reality TV show, right? Yeah. And what, I don't know this relationship of this friend, but in these notes of act like Jason and

Mike Johnson or whatever, and these are things that women said to Ben Higgins, they're like, by the way, uh, and I have, uh, Ryan, can you imagine reading this note about yourself, uh ryan can you imagine reading this note about yourself ryan your biggest fault is that you are overconfident slash arrogant it's a massive turn off to people you come off as mean and demanding better to just keep those thoughts to yourself and express a positive outlook on others and he displayed all those qualities and and the little bit that we saw. He looked like a bachelor is notorious for casting giant men. He's in the 5'9", 5'10", category. It seemed like a bit of a Napoleon complex, it seemed to read. And so we saw these qualities. I'm just simply saying, could you imagine hearing

that about yourself? And sometimes we all need to hear some very constructive, hard truths. And he has a friend that felt confident to say this to him. Or a sibling. That read to me as an older sister. But he kept a note. He had two weeks to read that over and over and over, and he did nothing to change his personality. He probably, like that takes work though. Yeah. To be that person and have someone say that to you, you can read it and you can own it and you can maybe even humble yourself

to know how to change that overnight in a hotel room. It doesn't just happen. That requires therapy and self-awareness. Yeah. And I'm not faulting Ryan. Like it's, I'm just saying like, it'd be really easy to pile on this Ryan guy. And it just might be a case of wrong personality for the show. He has some work to do on himself.

He is overconfident and cocky. He is off-putting in public. Is he a bad guy? No. I mean, that's what's so hard too. Especially once you do get into that work for yourself and you really dive into the world of psychology and therapy, you start understanding where these things come from in people

and where they stem from in their life. And then you end up having more empathy for them. But that doesn't mean that there's someone that should end up dating the bachelorette. Totally. You know, they're not in the right place in their life to be doing that. Go ahead. I just, okay. they're not in the right place in their life to be doing that. Go ahead.

I just, okay, so this clip of the notes and stuff was released as a promo, like, before the premiere. Sure, of course, it's cheesy. But, like, a lot of people have been wondering, like, is there any likelihood that just to, like, get more viewers on premiere night that the producers literally just hired an actor and created this whole bit?

No, they don't hire actors. Okay. That's just what the buzz was. It's also completely believable that someone would do this. This is not that outrageous. I also, I don't know. I think it's kind of, and again, like, clearly this guy is not a winner,

but like, I think the fact that you have a friend who can be that honest with you is a good thing. Yes. Like, that is a good sign that you have cultivated friendships where they will call you out like that

and be that true. And he held onto it. He didn't say, fuck you and throw it up and tear it away he held on to this like i'm just saying like i want to give this man some grace and yes it's a bad look and he has like i've no doubt like clearly he had like in the five minutes he was on tv you saw this guy you saw who he was it was obvious this guy is has insecurities and can be off-putting with some of the things that he thinks is charming. It's obvious. I'm not trying to say he shouldn't have gone home. I'm just trying to come from a place of empathy.

I can see where he's going to get absolutely roasted on Twitter. Everyone's going to be like, oh my God. And like, here's a guy who like just wrong setting, wrong time, maybe needs some self-reflection. What I would love to see of all the people we may see on Paradise, I would love to see Ryan on the beach and talking about the notes and what he's learned about himself. Maybe there's some therapy, maybe. And I'd love to see a different Ryan. I hope to see that for him. This is something that I would love to see from, and I'm sorry for generalizing this,

but from a lot of men and some women too, is respecting more of people's boundaries. Because she did have to state multiple times, respect what I am saying is you are going home. And he goes, is there anything I can do? What can I do? I need to prove this to you. As opposed to if he said that once, okay. Second time, say, okay, I respect what you're saying. I respect that decision.

And I'm going to remove myself. Ed did that in Paradise. And I really hate it. I remember when McKenna was like trying to bake up with him. Yeah. And he was like, it was like, you know, like you said, Kathy, it's one thing to be like, are you sure? And like, and the history of dating. I think that's just a trigger for me because it is so hard for my, like I'm learning how to communicate my boundaries. Michelle does such

a great job at it. But when you have that person that you've communicated that boundary multiple times and they're still not respecting it, that just really bugs me. 100%. Men are definitely more guilty than women. And why? I mean, I think that's a societal thing. Societal thing. You know, we've...

Women are built societally to be people pleasers. We also like how many rom-coms have we watched or like these stories of this older couple and be like, he had to ask me 15 times not taking no for an answer as being like a romantic so but it's still something we all should work on and i love that you pointed it out and then also just the props to michelle the way she articulated it she just i i'm what i'm paying attention to the red flags. Like, I love how she worded that. Calm too. That's something that I think everyone can learn from in communicating something that could have been an argument

is just very like, hey. And that's people hear you when you're calm. Yeah. I'm seeing, I saw these red flags and I'm going to pay attention to these red flags. I'm not going to ignore them. And in a world where you have 30 suitors, listen, the leash is short. You don't get 30 chances. You don't get two chances. Ryan might not be a bad guy,

but you don't get the fuck up like that. I mean, Joe got a second chance, but that's because he was honest about everything. Also, there's clearly a connection, and a connection she probably doesn't have with Ryan. I think that there was, like, there could have been a connection there. She liked that he brought in the ice cream truck.

She liked that he did his homework on, which is what's wild about this. She liked that he took notes figuratively. She didn't like the literal notes,

but she liked that he took notes on who she was. She liked sweets, all of the things. She liked food. And he was setting himself up for success. And then...

Do we... No, he's definitely not an actor. And it's not Caitlin and Tayshia's call. But it was... And it's clearly highly produced. But the fact that they found the notes and sat on them and waited for him to do the thing.

I mean, clearly that's for the show. It's manufactured drama. And that's honestly the one turnoff for me about the franchise at this point is I just want a straightforward season where we have great potential suitors and it's drama-free. In this role, right?

Because Caitlyn and Tayshia are not playing hosts. They're playing friends of Michelle. Yeah. That's the role they're playing. And I'm not faulting Caitlyn and Tayshia for this because it wasn't clearly this is a producer choice. But wouldn't that be in the real world a very terrible thing to do for a friend?

See a guy do something, have him be clearly point out red flags, whether it's valid or not, you have a concern you catch a guy on a date with another girl or whatever it is right and then you just sit on it wait for them to like meet up with that person have an enjoyable experience and after they get excited about someone then you drop the bomb so that they like have to like unravel it on their own like what the fuck is that and the worst was in their weird like looking out

the window situation when they're watching her. Like, I think it was Tayshia and he rolls up with the ice cream truck. You can tell they're bonding and they're like, oh my gosh, that's him.

And then you hear Tayshia be like, Michelle, Michelle. Like, Michelle's like doing something wrong, but I'm like, you haven't told her what you found.

So, of course, she's falling for him. Like, don't be like, oh, Michelle, come on, girl. But in fairness to Tayshia, we have no idea if she's falling for him. Like, don't be like, oh, Michelle, come on, girl. Sure, but in fairness to Tayshia, we have no idea if she said that about Ryan. Like, their reactions

could have been... Like, they literally could have not have been watching. They could have given you a bunch of reactions and they could have inserted in the edit. So we don't know.

Second, like I said, you know, that's... It wasn't Caitlyn and Tayshia's choice. They didn't... I would be shocked if they actually found the letters on their own. That whole thing was about how do we show this to the audience?

And so they had Caitlin and Tayshia do it. So it wasn't their choice. I'm not faulting Caitlin and Tayshia at all. I'm just saying if the producers want them to play the role of a friend, that's not being a friend. So they discredited their hosts by doing this. It's also giving Michelle trust issues on night one, which is just... It's part of the show.

I know. It's part of the show. I hate that. Yeah. Like... Set them up for success. The question is, would it be as interesting to watch? You know, I don't know.

And probably not. But I do think some formats are just like inherently interesting. Like it is inherently interesting, especially someone like Michelle, like you don't need her to be a mess because then it's more interesting to watch someone who's very like collected and competent and gracious, like handle the impossible situation of dating 30 men. Yeah, dude. If I'm, if I have a friend who's dating two or three guys, I'm invested. Of course, I'm going to watch like if, if a girl like Michelle is dating 30 people who makes it to the end. Yeah. But I think sometimes the producers will try to set up their leads to shine or to fail. Like, again, I've always, they always create situations and then see how it plays out.

And we're sitting here talking about, you know, the Joe thing where that was manufactured by producers or Joe. Yeah. I'll say this much. If the producers knew, they would, he's automatically on the show, right?

That's, so if they did know, then it's a produced situation but these moments they're giving michelle the opportunity to shine the way she is and we're talking about it you know like how she handled the ryan situation was so awesome that she wouldn't have gotten this opportunity if the producers if they handed it differently if they're like michelle by the way there's this guy before night one, Michelle would have been like, all right, well, let's send them home.

Like, show me a picture. I don't know. I'm not really interested in this guy. You know? And so part of it is, it is a TV show and they're giving the lead moments to react and respond.

And you're going to have to manufacture moments because we're just not that interesting of people. And I think sometimes we can be a little hard on them because be careful what we wish for. I don't know if it would be as exciting. I mean, I would have watched, you know, instead of five minutes of that, five minutes of Martin or whoever doing backflips. He was not supposed to land on all fours. I will say that was like, he was on a nice edge there. Highly athletic for what seems to be a tall guy.

Early predictions? I think Nate, I mean, Nate has got a, I mean, she clearly has connections. Like Nate, Joe, and Jamie, like those are- Unless something wild happens with those three, they're all in top four. And which, and it could easily happen, right? To your right, like the Justin, we'll call it the Justin now going forward, a guy who like, you were like, those three, they're all in top four. And it could easily happen, right? You're right. Like the Justin, we'll call it the Justin now going forward,

a guy who you were like, oh, when does he go home? Only for him to be the runner-up. Yeah, one of the people you don't bother really learn the name of. And then you're like, oh, I should have. So that could easily happen. But there are three distinct connections on night one. And that's Jamie, Joe, and Nate. And you know who I will say?

Pardeep seems like... He seems so sweet. Whenever he's been on screen, he seemed like a sweetie. It seems like him and Michelle are vibing a little bit. He's a neuroscientist. I feel like he could pull ahead in a group date.

I think he could really shine in a setting. I feel like he's someone that she keeps around to be safe with. And Rick, I could see Rick... Rick's getting airtime whether he's a player for Michelle. That's who he looks like airtime whether he's a player for Michigan. David Copperfield. That's who he looks like. Yes!

He looks like David Copperfield. Thank you. Is that what you were saying about the magician? Yes. And magicians sometimes wear eyeliner. There you go. And maybe he doesn't have eyeliner. I don't know. And if he does, great. Musicians also sometimes wear eyeliner. Musicians, yeah.

Connerby. Rickians, yeah. So, Connor B. Rick is top six. Rick has top six energy, like going home before hometowns. He looks like a guy that would tell her that someone else is being sneaky and ruin his one-on-one time with her. I can see that. Yeah, the snitch. Yeah.

Not in a bad way. He just like wants to warn her, but then it ends up eating into all of their time. I'm telling you, Peter's going to go farther than you would expect. And by expect, I mean as soon as you threw up the dough, pizza dough, you're like, this guy's going home night one. And I honestly think Peter's going to be around for a while. He has already exceeded our expectations. Yeah. I think Peter's going to be around for a while. If nothing else, I mean, paradise. Will Michelle really be into him I think

Michelle will find him amusing and funny and he'll be around for at least a few weeks I can't believe he's 26 why I don't know he's older yeah I see yeah because his hairline I mean some of these guys too they they have baby faces and they're like in their 30s well yoga guru

something we haven't talked about with no pants brandon jay we haven't talked about brandon jay he got a decent amount of air time he's a traveling nurse oh yeah i thought his line with michelle was a little cringe i mean i would have loved him to say i wanted to know what it was like to i wanted to know what it was like to look wake up next to you every day rather than i wanted you to know what it was like to look up next to me yeah day rather than I wanted you to know what it was like to look up next to me. Yeah. You know, he could have come across as a little sweeter and less douchey, but he clearly is confident.

He looks like a baby. He's 26. But if I was like, how old is this guy? And if they would have flashed like 21, I would have believed it. He reminds me of Ivan. Brandon? A little bit. Really?

Yeah. Just the youngness. I think he has more swag than Ivan. So Noah, like literal down to the traveling nurse element. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And age too. I think he has a little more like, and this is not a critique of Ivan.

Like I think Ivan can be charming. But like I think Noah has kind of an edgy like you look like trouble. Like women say to Noah when theygy, like you look like trouble. Like women say to Noah when they meet him, you look like trouble. And they all think they're the first one to ever say that to him. Right? And then a lot of girls tell Brett

and he looks like trouble. And whether he, who knows, but I think he'll be around for a while. I don't know if, I don't see Michelle being into him all that much, but I bet he gets like a one-on-one. And I think he'll be a character, and I think we'll get to know him.

Top six energy. I can see Brennan getting into some fights. Oh, yeah. I can see that. There's this Casey guy. I feel like he might be something. We'll see. I want Will to be the narrator see I want I want I want Will to be the narrator

that's I want I want Will to kind of kind of always let us know what's going on when like drama unfolds

I want to get Will's perspective I feel like it'll be entertaining there are a lot of turtlenecks this season too

in the pictures do you think after Brandon they would like cancel the turtleneck yeah speaking of in the pictures. Do you think after Brandon, they would like cancel the turtleneck? Yeah. Speaking of like having your like girlfriend who watches the show, like tell you like what not to do, it'd be like, oh, no, like that's out.

Yeah. Girls want to see necks. At the same time, I guess they were filming before Brandon got bachelor canceled. So who knows? But yeah, Brendan really brought in the turtlenecks. I felt like there were a lot of like, it was kind of weird how Clayton,

you know, we obviously know he's the next Bachelor. And it was very weird to then watch him have Michelle like be like, spank me with a ruler and be like, okay, so this guy's going to win America's heart. Kind of kinky.

Hot for teacher. I mean, there have been some people that have been very risque on the first night and it's gotten them a long way. And I kind of like that because he seems so clean cut. He seems like the guy that had a lot of media training from his time at Mizzou. His mom was there with like the little video.

And then I kind of like that he did that because it... I mean, let's not... I don't... Yes, but it wasn't like that outrageous. He brought a ruler and that could have been more Michelle and him going along with it. I'm not... She even...

I mean, it fell flat because she didn't go for it. So... The most gentle. She's like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. But to your report, Amanda, you know, overall, it seems like a really good group of guys. There seems like a lot of charming guys, a lot of guys with swag, you know, like… Who was the guy that said, he's like, you're a teacher.

I'm going to give you a D. And she really called him out. That was Chris S. That was Chris. Yeah. And I think, you know… That was uncomfortable. Clayton looks like…

I mean, it's not shocking he's the bachelor. He looks like a very traditional bachelor selection. He walks like an athlete. He comes across as incredibly basic. The closest thing they could get to Jesse Palmer as the lead. Yes. To not have Jesse Palmer again as the lead. You know, and as the bachelor, and I hope I'm wrong,

we'll get a lot of platitudes and gratefulness and it'll be a gentleman and it'll be about the women in the drama and less about Clayton. And if you didn't know Clayton was the Bachelor, I think he got outshined royally tonight. And knowing that he is the lead, you know that the show is going to do everything they can

to make him look as attractive as possible and if you didn't know he was the bachelor there's so many other guys you're just like whoo yeah you're like totally i want to talk to this guy or we're really charming and clayton was just like you know know, here's a sweet old good old boy from Missouri who's grateful to be there. And that's not a critique of him. It's just it's kind of fascinating. It's like Nate's got to win because otherwise why is it Nate your next bachelor?

You know, like certainly a lot more to uncover, but I hope that Clayton shows some personality. Do you guys feel like you have your picks for off of night one? Who you had to... I mean,

think about it. The first impression rose on the first impression rose on the Bachelorette as a significant rose. Indicator, yeah. I mean, often a winner, if not top two, three. I mean, I don't like the Bachelor first impression rose. You can go home week four, but not top two, three. The Bachelor first impression rose, you can go home week four,

but not with the Bachelorette. I think Nate's got to win. Nate and Joe are my top two. Nate and Joe. Joe, you could see being the runner up, very conflicted. Or Joe. If Joe doesn't win,

I think he's going to have a tough out. Yeah. Joe's the guy. Joe's't win, I think he's going to have a tough out. Yeah. Like Joe's the guy, Joe's the spark, right? The red flags are going off in Michelle. She probably reminds him of every fuck. He's got that kind of, he seems super sweet,

but maybe he's a fuck boy. I don't know that they're red flags yet. I feel like they're orange or pink. Sure. But she's trying to figure it out. If she doesn't end up with Joe, I could see it being a real great moment for Michelle and a not so great moment for Joe. Yeah. Because I think we

expect Michelle to handle it with such poise and grace and maybe nothing against Joe, but it'll be something to the effect of, I realize that what I feel for you are the kind of the sparks that I didn't listen to before. And I'm going to walk away from this because it's not right for me. Like it's not, it's going to be like the type of love she used to chase that she's not going to chase anymore. It's such a huge indicator too of when you're not with that person, how do you feel? Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit easier when you have 29 other people to think about. And then we'll wait for some of the underdogs to reveal themselves.

I'm excited for this season. Did Brian go home, the NFL player we didn't hear from? I really don't remember him. I mean, I remember him, but I don't remember him. Going home. He did not, but he literally, he maybe said one word yeah he doesn't seem who it says NFL player the tricky part with the rose ceremony is like she obviously didn't give roses to a handful of guys and then like said goodbye to two of them

so it was like me clocking who had a rose on versus who didn't I'm like there was not justice for a lot of these dudes yeah all right All right. Well, we'll see. Brian's going to have real special teams appearance on the show. You know, he's going to be on a few times and get them off. What is it? They'll do like a flag football episode and he'll like really shine there. Exactly. And then he'll get eliminated.

There'll be one athletic date. Yeah. Or he'll get hurt and be like, I have to go home. I'm sorry. The Bachelor producers, they're NFL fans. They love a good football player. They fucking love it.

They love their football. Kathy, thanks so much as always. Thanks for having me. Always great to have you on and recap all things Bachelor. Always let the people know what you're up to, where they can find what you're doing. You can find me on Instagram

at Kathy Kelly Kathy's with a C and then on Twitter at Catherine Kelly yeah be tweeting about The Bachelorette all season long

alright thanks for listening guys as always don't forget to keep listening for a fantastic episode with Remy Bader next week Jim Jeffries

to recap The Bachelorette send your questions at asknickatcastme.com cast with a K for our Ask Nick episodes on Monday. Be sure to subscribe, tell your friends, all that fun stuff. And we'll see you next time. Bye.