The Viall Files - E341 Bachelorette Recap With Zuri Hall

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

We're breaking down all the Bachelorette drama with entertainment reporter, television personality, and podcast host, Zuri Hall! On this episode, we dive into the sleepover group date that ended up being a boy’s club hangout, Martin’s "club rat" style, and Nayte’s aloof side. We also talk about the notes in the box being planted, the real reason why certain contestants haven’t gotten a one on one date yet, and if Nick runs the risk of running into Skippy in LA.  “If you ask anyone about loyalty, everyone will say they’re loyal. ” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Go to http://www.betterhelp.com/ViallFiles and unload the stress. RumHaven: Discover more recipes that will help you Sip into Paradise at http://www.RumHaven.com ScoreMaster: Visit http://www.ScoreMaster.com/VIALL to get started today.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @zurihall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. Visit betterhelp.com slash vilefiles because honestly, being a human is exhausting. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files Best Ret Recap Edition. And we have the wonderful and delightful Zuri Hall back in studio with us. Do I get to talk this time? I always mess up when I'm supposed to say hi. Oh.

Do I say hi or do I shut up? Hi. Hi. I can't get it right. I was like, what? I didn't let you talk. No, no. I know know we do the intros yeah right okay we'll keep it brief

we have the wonderful GloZell with us stay listening because unless you're listening to this Tuesday night the GloZell episode is out GloZell great conversation an absolute delight we talk about it all

in vitro yeah pregnancy Glozell, great conversation. An absolute delight. We talk about it all. In vitro. Yeah. Pregnancy. Everything from the cinema challenge to hugging Barack Obama. Yeah. Porting. Yeah.

There was a lot of... It was a really... Yeah. I want to hear this. Stay tuned. Hugging Barack. What was that? She didn't let go. I wouldn't either.

I mean... Who would? She was a delight. I really enjoyed it. But make sure to listen to Glozell and I chitty chat after this episode. I think that's it. Merch? You want to talk about your merch line? Merch. Yeah, I didn't wear it. If you find yourself to be an introverted person and misrepresented, we have our new introverted line. I had a dream about it last night. Did you?

Allie put a lot of work into it. So check us out at vilefiles.com. You did a good job. I'll put it on my social too. I was going to wear it, but the shirt looked too good. Let's get to the episode. What are your thoughts so far, Zuri? I have a lot of thoughts.

When I first started that episode, I was like, I don't know what's happening here. I don't know if I'm going to love this. Absolutely loved everything about it by the end of it. And it was the way that particularly Michelle was navigating really important conversations, but in a way that didn't beat you over the head with it. I resonate with her story so strongly because it's so similar to my own. I'm from the Midwest. I grew up feeling very often like the token black girl in mostly white spaces.

And so I felt for her. That weird teddy bear pummeled to death thing. Like at first, it was a good help. It was super weird. It was creepy. The guys were way too excited about it. And then when she started tearing up, I'm like, damn, girl, I feel you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Michelle has done an exceptional job. I think you said the word perfectly, navigating her role as the Bachelorette, which is very hard to do.

And the lead is put in these kind of challenging situations to you know make an interesting compelling tv show you know they let's let's start at the beginning yeah with the one-on-one with martin i loved how it opened up because michelle mentioned what i said last week it's like why are we just letting martin off the hook with the fact that he had this conversation with Jamie and Jamie told him about the story, this rumor that Jamie had about the light-skinned baller and then everyone was going around trying to figure out, you know, what was Michelle talking about? Certainly, Jamie knew knew he didn't say anything, but like also Martin knew. Yeah.

And he didn't say anything. And so I thought maybe we're like, they were just holding it off to like, you know, maybe, you know, now that Jamie's gone, we need some more drama. So where's the drama going to come from? And Michelle opens up and being like, I know that these two were friends,

so I want to talk about it. What are your thoughts of Martin so far? I kept trying to figure out what it was about Martin that had her even wanting to invest the energy or the time. No shade to Martin. I just didn't get it at first. You can shade Martin. The longer I looked at him, the more I was like,

oh, he's hot. It's hard to, there's a lot of distraction. Yeah, like the shaved sides and the bleached. Love a frosted tip moment. And so that's a lot. But when you dig underneath it all, it's like, oh, this is an attractive man. I'm imagining that this translates differently in person. And so your willingness to put up with BS kind of rises with the attraction level.

Is it behind at all? Because to me, it's a very curated look that certainly startles you, I guess. It's very personal trainer from Miami. Certainly from a bachelorette standpoint, this is a very aggressive look. So good for him for being bold enough. I love it. Own it.

He showed up on the date with a sleeveless button-up flannel. Which I was like, what? And I've made some poor bold choices on the bachelorette. So I'm not judging. But I asked Natalie. She's like, I don't know. He pulls it off. He does pull off this very curated look.

So we got to give him props for that. But is it, is he attractive underneath at all? Or has he figured out what works for him where he's like, I know it's bold, but like, I can pull this off. He is who he is. And maybe, maybe a little bit of that. And that's, what's attractive is when you just own it, you know, opinions be damned. He certainly felt like he was comfortable in the look. It is, it's his vibe. He's from Miami. It works for him. I found myself more attracted to him.

And I use that term very loosely as that date went on. And so again, I'm sticking to the Michelle just thinks he's hot. And so she kind of is letting him. He, what he has, you know, he's attractive guy. He also has swag. Yeah. You can tell.

I mean, you don't shave lines into your forehead and your eyebrows and wear sleeveless button-up blouse. Right, lest we forget the eyebrows. If you don't. That's really doubling down on the aesthetic. He clearly has swag. So the combination of the outfit, the swag, what we know about his conversation with jamie and then

early on michelle's like so like listen i know your boys and obviously jamie and i had this thing and martin the way he answered it which was kind of like you know like it's my like i know martin and martin and i was like where's martin from and i I was like, it's fucking fun. Martin's popping bottle. Martin's a club rat. For sure. Like 100%. He is living in the clubs and he is a bros before hoes guy. 100%. The phrase that was at top of mind. It was made for Martin. Like Martin's the friend that you go to when you're cheating on your girlfriend. And like, you're like, I was at Martin's house. Cause you know, even if Martin doesn't know what's up, he'll be like, yeah, Jamie's here.

He slept on my couch. But he's also the guy who, when you tell me you're at Martin's house, I'm like, yeah, so no, we're not doing that. I'm calling Martin right now. Yeah, you're showing up at Martin's house. Martin, I'm sick of this shit, man. Yeah, 100%.

It's interesting because it made me think about the conversation of loyalty, right? Because on one side, Martin's trying to be loyal to his bro, Jamie. And I get that. And maybe Martin's the type of guy who's like, hey, listen, it's not my business. I want to stay out of it. But I actually got like a, not a fight, but I got into a spirited discussion with a friend about loyalty.

Love that euphemism. And I was like, listen, I value loyalty to the point where like, I have no problem picking sides when I need to pick sides because like, that's what loyalty is. And I'm very critical of, like, the point is everyone, if you ask anyone, if they're loyal, everyone says yes. Yeah.

No one says, no one says like, I'm not that loyal. Right. No one says that. But like, there's plenty of people who are like,

at the end of the day, we all have those friends who are like, listen, I don't know, like, I don't, you guys figure it out.

Like, I don't know. Like, you know, even if it's like, even if it's your best friend and then they're, you're, they're fighting with like, someone who's like, listen, I don't know. Like, I don't, you guys figure it out. Like, I don't know. Like, you know, even if it's like, even if it's your best friend and then they're, you're, they're fighting with like someone who's like kind of an acquaintance and they're still like, I don't want to be involved. I don't like, that's not a loyal person, you know? And so here you have Jamie who like in four days, like became bros with with Jamie. You have Martin and Jamie. And then he's left. And now you have Martin seemingly pursuing a relationship with Michelle.

And Martin doesn't want to pick a side. And I didn't love that. I didn't love it either. My thing is, I understand your whole, like, bros before hoes concept, if that's how you feel. But at the end of the day, you're on The Bachelorette. You're here for Michelle. And Jamie's gone, right? So when he kind of doubled down on that, were they at the end of the day, you're on The Bachelorette. You're here for Michelle. And Jamie's gone, right? So when he kind of doubled down on that,

were they at the table? They weren't in a hot tub, were they? I just always imagine Martin in a hot tub. They were in a lukewarm hot tub. And when they got in, Michelle was like, kind of gave like a startled sensation. And it wasn't because it was too hot. What it was, was I'm certain,

and having been on that show with random hot tubs in the middle of nowhere, she was expecting a hot tub and she got like not cold water. Oh, was that it? I'm certain of it. Okay.

Okay. That's good to know. I appreciate the context. Because it was like they probably attempted to warm it up and they like poured like warm water in there

and then probably sat there for an hour because like you're always like planning and getting ahead and things always sit and you just hurry up and wait on that show so it sat there michelle didn't get a hot tub she got a kiddie pool oh no it was a it was an ice bin yeah it was a giant ice bin well that's just cruel and unusual i didn't think about that i saw her tense up and

jump when martin kind of came to jamie's defense or at least didn't get all the way in it. And when she started looking out into the abyss and asked him questions, not looking at him, I was like, okay, that is a woman who is upset. That's the look that I'm not giving you because I would be killing you with dagger eyes. And she goes, so are you questioning my judgment in regards to this decision that I've made? The fact that she couldn't even lock eyes with him told me, bro, you need to just backpedal. You need to be like, whatever you did, whatever you decided, you did what was best for you. But he kind of stood by his theory of, look, it is what it is. You did what you felt you needed to do.

He confirmed to me that he is a fuckboy club rat with swag because he said a bunch of words that sound, if you're not paying attention, sounded kind of nice. And he said absolutely nothing at all. What did you guys make of the one moment from the apology or like from that discussion that stood out to me by Martin, like not utterly putting his foot in his mouth when it was when he was like, I have a lot to learn

and I'm still figuring it out. And I messed up in that moment. Did you, what did you make of that? Because it's not a complicated situation. This is an adult man who, and again, this is not like Martin wasn't involved. He was involved. He was the only person who heard Jamie's story. He saw, he heard Jamie's nonsense, person who heard Jamie's story. He saw, he heard Jamie's nonsense, nonsensical bullshit story. He saw how it upset Michelle. He saw the drama it incurred. And the whole time he just stood quietly waiting for it to just unravel, hoping that he wasn't brought in the middle of it. And I'm just saying that as someone that if like I don't think Martin and Michelle are gonna end up together but like that is not that is that is someone who like I'm sorry like it that's not

your ride or die you know what I'm saying that is not Jamie and Martin are ride or die maybe they need to ride off into the sunset together yeah like it's Martin has a the bros before hoes like saying was made for someone like martin and then when it like miami he's a club rat 100 it was a personal trainer yeah from miami so and uh yeah he so like what i'm curious if we get a chance to interview michelle i want to know you know i don't know if martin will still be on the show but i want to know when watching it back if michelle was uh felt uh misled by martin by his omission of this like knowing by withholding hey like calling out jamie knowing he's the one who brought that up knowing he started that drama and said nothing at all i'm really really curious what Michelle thinks about that. If I was a betting woman, I'd say she

feels some type of way. I mean, she kind of looked like she felt some type of way in the hot tub when Martin, even if he wasn't overly defensive of Jamie, he certainly wasn't ride or die for Michelle in that moment. And she could sense it. She was visibly uncomfortable. if you ask me. She was tensing up. Like, if this man tries to find a way to defend this other man in this moment. And honestly, what I felt most bad about with Michelle was that kind of was the theme of the episode. These guys having each other's back and her feeling like she's just happy to be there. It's called The Bachelorette. And they're really there having this massive slumber party with each other. And there's just this hot chick who's kind of annoying them because they're

supposed to woo her. Yeah. It's, it's, it happens often. I think on the bachelorette and I will like, it's this weird thing. Cause like,

no, it's damned if you do damned, if you don't in that world, because we, I don't know how many of these guys have watched the show but we all know that like taking initiative in that world is often perceived as disrespectful you know and not waiting your turn and you know like if you've had too much time right so your front runners of was was brandon on that pillow fight date? Yeah, he was. So all the front runners, Joe, Brandon, Nate, were all on that date.

And often in that world, front runners are like, I've gotten my validation. I've gotten my roses. Like, I don't need to fight with these guys in a group setting. Like, I don't need to do that. And I... The thing was, they don't, I don't need to do that. And I, the thing was, they didn't even have to fight though. It was,

there was such a lack of interest or proactivity. If that's the word I'm looking for about talking with her, that you could easily just go up and be like, Hey, Michelle, you having fun at the slumber party where nobody's talking to you? Totally. I'm just saying like from a,

from the mindset of these guys, I can see how it started that way, but it was surprising that no one I felt like a matter of obliviousness. They all just seemed so oblivious. Not a single one of them noticed that she's standing there by herself. Yeah.

You could, whether you're Nate, Joe, or any of the guys, no one said pull Michelle aside. They were literally excluding her they were they were like no no no like we want to we want to punch each other in the stomach yeah oh my god basically they and they were like no no no like you're we want to do this like you girl i didn't do sit-ups for four months in a row can we talk's abs, please? When do we get to that part? Impressive. Good God. Gorgeous man. Yeah. His body. I was, I took a moment, but like, but despite all that,

he, he was the one who was like, let's have a strong ab competition. And clearly he was like, I did not work out this hard to not have someone punch me in the stomach on national television and me be like unaffected by this so like i need this to happen michelle you're gonna have to wait like it was the moment it happened good for him i'm not mad at it if i had those apps i'd probably feel the same way temperatures are cooling off but you do not have to say goodbye to that tropical feeling. No, not when you introduce Rum Haven Caribbean rum into your liquor cabinet. Is that- Bar cart.

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All those matter in your credit score and ScoreMaster is helping you take the right steps to lowering your score. It was interesting to see Michelle who, like, what is your take on someone who has, like, been so elevated this whole season? It just feels like she's navigated everything so perfectly. And in this situation, it wasn't like she was navigating it incorrectly

so much as she was served a really tough hand. But, like, what was it like seeing someone who, up until this point, has been so poised and perfect in a more, like, vulnerable, disappointed environment. I thought it was really nice. It was refreshing. And I was really impressed with how she handled how she felt, right? It's so easy to get worked up, get upset, especially in a social situation. I think we've all been there where we're somewhere and we thought it was going to go away that it's just not going. And you could easily get caught up in those feelings. And I love

that she brought up rumination and she's like, you know what? I thought this is what was going to happen. It's not happening. I could sit, I could pout, I could be angry, but screw it. They're having fun. I'm going to try to shake it off. I mean, she was upset when Tayshia and Caitlyn came in to sit down with her. You could tell that she just was not into it. She was really trying to bottle up the fact that she was livid. And I think she handled it as well as anyone could. They're supposed to be there for her. And she's watching them pummel each other with teddy bears. I'd be upset too. And also part of handling any situation well isn't always being polished. It's the willingness to be honest about your feelings.

And her ability to articulate. Especially in this, yes, especially in this environment. It's not just clamming up and saying I'm unbothered or pretending to be unaffected. It's part of her handling that situation is to just say, this is how I'm feeling. And then handle those feelings in a way that's like effective, which she clearly did. I mean, other than the calling the pillow fighting weird, we've once again, Clayton's, other than the calling the pillow fighting weird, we've once again,

Clayton's, our, our next bachelor's biggest moment was a big yell that they put in slow motion and added sound effects to. Was there any other Clayton moment? I'm particularly been hard on Clayton. Well, cause we're all, we know he's the bachelor.

Yeah. We're watching through the lens of what was it about him? And so far, this is the best they got. Yeah. Clayton was the one that after she was commenting of how no one was making a move, she literally said to him, she was like, Clayton, come over here. And he like walked over and I was like, oh, they all have a cute moment. And yet he like got over there and it still felt so awkward.

He's like, oh, me? Oh, okay. She literally made the move on him and he was still so uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It did feel like a very adorable adorable overgrown boy in that moment being like maybe a little bit scolded he's really cute i mean he's just every time i'm like okay what is it why is he the next bachelor he's very tall

he's given that midwest corn-fed energy i love to see it i'm from Ohio like I visually sign me up you know not to him specifically like I get why that's a bachelor I mean yeah he fits the mold yeah but

he's being outshined by everyone else yeah I I assume something's happening later in this season right I hope

do we I we do assume he has a nice smile yeah he has a nice smile. Yeah. He has a nice smile. We hear he's good with kids.

Okay. Well, that matters. I also like, I really like Leroy. We haven't seen enough of Leroy. He's the biomedical PhD student who also won the pillow fight and because

Oh, that's right. Was he versus Oh, he had the really cute outfit, right? He was like the fashionista. Yeah, someone called him a fashionista and I because I saw him in the rose ceremony last episode. I was like, who the fuck is this guy? And then I paid more attention and I

hope to see more of Leroy. Yeah. I mean, we can start talking about Chris as, I call him Skippy. Skippy. He just looks like a Skippy. He, you know, I don't know how I feel about Chris. I'm divided. At first I was like, you know what? Good for you.

Calling out the guys. And then the guys kind of had me on their side by the end. Like, wait a minute. Are you a snitch? And then he low-key turned into a villain by the end of the episode and was kind of embracing that i don't care what you guys think i'm in it to win it so you were wow you were on the you were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt i was i might be a little gullible in that sense though i was like he's going to michelle to speak the truth he just i mean as soon as i saw him in the intro package, you just knew this guy's storyline. That's why I call him

Skippy. He's just like the pesty... I kind of like what Nate... What did Nate call him? A dweeb? No, but I did not. Okay, because it's like drink every time Nate says dweeb or weirdo. I need him to... Weirdo, but what would you call someone like Chris?

A dweeb, for sure. It's the fact that Nate said it ten times. I am a big Nate fan. It wasn't the best episode for Nate. It wasn't terrible. I don't think he looked good in this episode. I'm not going to lie. He is a gorgeous man.

He's so handsome. Chris Brown, have we talked about that on this show? Have you guys talked about the fact that there was an uncanny resemblance to Chris Brown yeah we try not to compare no visually

visually our Bachelorette fan favorites with no god no only head to toe okay optically his face right

he does have an uncanny resemblance to Chris Brown it's a Chris Brown face yeah yeah no I do not think he came out of this episode looking the greatest and also I didn't love when he had his opportunity to sit down with Michelle Chris Brownface. Yeah, no, I do not think he came out of this episode looking the greatest.

And also, I didn't love when he had his opportunity to sit down with Michelle, that there wasn't more processing of how hurt she was. Like, there were some guys that I think really handled that well. Olu was one of those guys. I mean, I teared up. I started crying watching their exchange. It was beautiful.

Yeah. Yeah, in Nate's defense, he had to spend most of his time defending himself against Chris S's allegations. Well, that's those are actually two different moments. Oh, right. First, Nate was just like, I'm sorry you felt that way.

So, like, team Nate and Olu and the rest of the guys win the pillow fight. And then the other guy, like Chris and Joe go home right? No that's right and then Nate sits down with Michelle and Michelle addresses the group and says you know

kind of like what the fuck guys and we've seen moments like this in the past where like I mean I think this is a theme with the Bachelorette I think the guys get in this kind of bromance mode and don't know what to do and so we've seen something and it's the guys always feel like truly ashamed which you know rightfully so you're

you you're calling out a bunch of adult men for pretending they're in middle school again yeah and like they you could tell that they knew they're like fuck yeah like i was like stuffing cotton candy down brendan's throat and like having fun doing it and like what the fuck like you could see the shame in their eyes and yeah nate has a showed a an aloof side to him which that's a good word for it that's who who he is not you know you gotta take the go with your bad i mean if this is nate's worst episode then whatever but it wasn't he definitely showed uh you know like he has because like it's it's funny because up into this point i've really liked the way nate has shown his

confidence in moments of like i'm'm not going to let that bother me. You saw the drama. It's like, I'm just, I'm going to be unbothered by like when Joe was out shining everyone on the basketball date and Joe is a great looking guy. He's got the skills. He's from Minneapolis. He knows Michelle, a lot of reasons to be threatened and insecure. And Nate was like, he wasn't threatened, yeah. I mean, what am I going to do? I love how Nate called out Jamie and said, are you insecure about Joe?

Like, I love that he brought Joe up and to, you know, without like keeping him. So I loved how he showed that confidence. But that confidence has trickled over into this episode. Then I have no problem with him being too confident. In fact, a lot of what Chris S did to Nate reminded me a lot of like when I was on Andy's season where like I got the first impression rose, I got an early one-on-one date.

And like, I was surprised how I felt the connection with this girl. And like, yeah, I guess I felt confident. I wasn't like going around like I'm going to win. And then one day all the guys were like, you think you're the front runner. I'm like, huh? Like out of of nowhere they just started to be like because like i felt confident yeah i mean and that was used again that was weaponized and used against me like

what the fuck you know so when nate said you know when the group date card was presented and nate made a comment which the other way they go around the room and every guy's giving their reaction to being on a date card, right? So they show Nate's reaction, which is, I'm not going to sweat it. I'll get one eventually. Yeah. That's a reasonable statement. Of course you're

going to get one eventually. And by the way, the only reason why Nate or Joe hasn't gotten a one-on-one, we found out at the end of the episode, because they're about to go to Minneapolis. Because these fucking dates stuck in the desert aren't the best. They're about to travel. And they're like, Michelle, you know your favorites? Why don't we just hold off?

Let's take some of the other guys on these dates. And I was like, okay. So that's why Nate... They don't know that. We didn't know that. We didn't know that, but now we know that. But why shouldn't Nate expect a one-on-one? Why is it so wrong to show your confidence? He didn't say, this is in the bag. He just said, I think I'm going to get a one-on-one. I'll get that opportunity at some point. So I'm not sweating. There's six or seven

one-on-ones. I think I'm going to be one of one of six or seven i'm gonna go on a limb and think i'm in her top seven oh my god game well you know like god forbid yeah and you know and he said it and then someone like this the let's the short scrawny skippy looking guy is somehow bothered by the fact that i mean of course he's bothered by the fact that this is like yeah so like textbook i had complex i had no problem nate saying that what i am critical of nate is when michelle we're fast forwarding a little bit because yeah so like when mish go let's hold let's rewind when when michelle addressed the group yes nate's it nate addressing michelle's his behavior the group the men's behavior and specifically his because every guy had to kind of speak for themselves was this kind

of like yeah underwhelming just like you know like he's posting up in the car she's got the arm and sometimes we get stuck in like these comfortable positions and then we realize oh i look too casual so like i'm willing to give him the benefit i don't give a shit yeah right and that doesn't in like these comfortable positions and then we realize, oh, I look too casual. So I'm willing to give him the benefit. I look like I don't give a shit. Yeah. And that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't, but it was a bad look.

It was a bad look. Come on. It was a bad look. Look, I get it. Like I am not against Nate again. I think he's handsome. I think he's charming. I like his confidence. Who doesn't want a confident man or woman?

I do think he could have leaned into that moment a little bit more because Michelle was so vulnerable. She was so open. She was visibly upset. She was crying at certain points. And all we got out of him was, I'm sorry, you felt that way. Essentially. Essentially. Yeah. He was like, she was like, I don't feel seen. And he was like, I see you. And it's like, I was like, I don't feel seen. And he was like, I see you. Right? And it's like. I was like, wait, what? Please do a little bit more. Please show your work.

I know. It felt very like, do you guys remember the Whitney Houston quote? She's like, I can believe what you feel. It's like the most like, I hear what you're saying. It's not really hitting home, but like. I'm doing no emotional labor. Right. And like actually.

No heavy lifting. Engaging with this feeling of yours. It was an opportunity for him to make Michelle feel like connecting with her was important to him. And he dropped that ball. She literally was so direct with Nate specifically. She said, I'm always the one who's been giving more, but my soulmate has to be reciprocating that. I have to make sure that this... She

literally spelled it out for him individually. She pulled him. She basically says, you're my frontrunner. Yes. And he still didn't reciprocate. I want you to maintain your pole position. And yeah. No, he dropped. It was very much

help me help you. And he did not do that. I feel like Michelle pulled him to speak to. Probably because she was like, I don't trust that one of these men is going to actually

take the initiative to talk to me. But then she chose Nate. Yeah. He had every opportunity. Yeah. It was not his best showing. Yeah.

You know, but none of us are perfect and we'll see if Nate can rebound. Yeah. You know, we need layers and ups and downs. So we will see. But Olu. Olu. Olu.

I mean, and yeah, he took the time to empathize with Michelle. And, you know, he's got this sister And maybe it was easier for him to empathize because he saw Michelle and his sister. But it was the effort of empathizing, right? And allowing himself to feel what Michelle was feeling. Right. Right? Because a lot of guys have sisters

and they don't take the time to connect with the emotions that their partners might have and and seed in their partners so yeah i agree i was uh it was a great moment i've you know i think he uh triggered all of us you know you know a little scratchy throat and uh it was great because also the juxtaposition of him being, you know, like, you know, and he was like, before he's doing the pillow fight,

he's doing this like weird kind of like dance like that. Like he's trying to, you know, intimidate his competitors. Right. And it's like, okay, you giving kind of meathead vibes.

And then, and then the turn, he just goes in this very empathetic, very emotional, very in touch. Yep. I'm not, I'm not too man enough to cry. That's the best of both worlds.

Yeah. So really, really love that from him. It was, it was really great. He's one of my faves right now. And well-deserving, obviously, of the group date rose. I think my favorite part is that like usually the bachelorette or the bachelor will go around the room and go like, Olu, thanks for sharing. And then Nate really enjoyed our conversation. She's like, Olu,

you're the only one who's remotely deserving of this rose. So props to Olu. We love it. Now the Bellatant twins show up. I mean, props to the Bella twins. Love the Bella twins. Great. Pillow pillow fight I guess

cool Rick's one on one wait why did you make that face I kind of agree with Amanda what no hold on guys why well first of all I just can't shake we have to describe Amanda's face

which is more like a oh right so there's a face I was expecting to eat a really good orange. And it's like, there's just something not quite right about it. Like a little bit quizzical, I would say. Wait, were you becoming more confused or skeptical as the date went on? Or was it from jump? Something about Rick just isn't...

No, it was just more like... It's like I've said before, he looks like he's always just given blood. Like, he always has like a kind of pasty face. He looks like he's kind of on the verge of passing out at all times.

Which, no shade. It's probably a very stressful situation. Yeah, maybe just iron deficiency. We can get the Manson supplements. Someone get the vitamin D.

I don't know. I don't have any negative things to say. He seems like a sweet, nice guy. You know, like he's like a poor man's Michael. I find it interesting though, because you were like, so for Jamie's one-on-one, you're like, how can we judge this man based on what he's been through? And now it's like, well, screw Rick. I didn't say screw Rickick i know zuri and i are like i also like you were so like defensive

of jamie on that date because of what he'd been through and because of his story was very like fuck i mean and also natalie actually said this is like r Rick's not as good of a storyteller as Michael because Rick told his sad story and his father passed away and there was some, but he definitely, when he got to the end, kind of like tapered off, which I respect.

Like how, you know, that's a very personal story. Because you don't want to sensationalize like the truth of your tragedy. I understand. And I totally respect that. But Jamie went all in Like how, you know, that's a very personal story. Because you don't want to sensationalize like the truth of your tragedy. I get it. I understand. And I totally respect that. But Jamie went all in.

And now we know Jamie to be a bit of a liar. But in the moment of Jamie's story, it was a hell of a story. Okay. But do you want to potentially be engaged to like a hell of a storyteller? No, no, no. Or a guy who's like, this is my true story. I'm responding to Allie's like critique of me just like being like, Oh shit,

damn, that's us. Your mom killed herself. And you're like trying to like take care of your sister. And like, yeah, I was. And Jamie's like,

and then he was gone, you know? And so I guess you just didn't strike at the heart. What was the the or like what what was redeeming about Rick like how did you watch that date

I thought he was really sweet I wondered if the notes in the box were a plant to be quite frank right I was like

they're probably all on the same handwriting I'm like okay this is all the same weirdly Chris Harrison's handwriting for date cards

so that was my first like okay I guess did Chris Harrison show up and like walk through this woods with Lauren Zila? Or like, what's up? I thought that Rick was very sweet and he was very honest

and I believed him. It wasn't sexy. The story wasn't like twists and turns and punchlines, but I am attracted to honesty even when it's a little bit awkward. And I think he was trying his best to just speak his truth in a way that she could understand.

I am not blown away by him. I think he's cute. I don't see him going all the way, but I'm, oh God, I think I'm starting to sound like what your face looked like, which was slightly quizzical. No, listen, slightly quizzical. No, listen, we like Rick. We think of the group of men, he seems like a stand-up guy.

Like there's, you know, eventually I'll meet some of these guys and some of them I'll be like, you fucking suck. You know, like I'll see behind the facade of who they're pretending to be on the show versus who they are. And I think Rick is someone we're seeing who Rick is, which is an empathetic, you know, man who's comfortable constantly being in his feelings. Certainly has dealt with, you know, some tragedy and for the right woman,

he is going to be a kind, gentle partner that will make her really happy. Right. I just don't think it's Michelle. i just don't think it's michelle i just don't think it's michelle i also think it's interesting that rick and martin martin someone who's already shown that he can check in on michelle like do you i kind of get the sense that rick would have noticed on the group date had he been there that nobody was paying attention to her yeah like i feel like he has that kind of skill set yep 100 and i agree that martin might

have well but for two very different reasons. You know, Rick being like, I just, I feel like there's some energy in this room and I need to connect with it. And Martin sees it as like prey in the club where he sees like the person he knows that he's like, this person needs my help and I need to get her a shot. He's clearing the path through VIP. Yeah.

He looks off into the distance, like snaps and is like, someone needs me. Any points, you know, up here, I got a bottle, you know.

He's got gray goose in his belt. You know, he has to bounce here. But yes, I agree that. I think Martin would have would have noticed that can we talk about how our lovely friend

of show Andy Grammer made a little appearance yes we did Andy Grammer shows up friend of show great performance you're single I liked it it's a great song lease on life shout out

it was so good that I was like on life shout out it was it was so good that I was like did they like dub it in it was it sounded really acoustically well done

I don't know I feel like Andy Grammer does everything well he does he beat box when he came on our podcast

it sounded great so I recited a beautiful poem yeah I was like oh god man yeah I don't know anybody better suited for The Bachelor

than Andy Grammar. I feel like he would win. I almost told Andy to stop showing off when he was on our podcast. I'm just kidding. It was that intimidating. But yeah,

check out Andy's new hit song, Leaves on Life. Yeah, Lettuce Wrap Man. She called him my little red lettuce. I mean, like Natalie calls me chicken chicken we've been dating for two years like it's a weird pet name that i'm like whatever um but i don't know if i'd want

uh a girl or a woman i'm gonna like my first date with to be like my little lettuce wrap and i'll be like okay what's the origin story on that nickname? Well, he showed up in the food cart. Oh, okay, okay, okay. You know? The tray. The tray. I assume it's that. And I understand it's a callback to that.

But like, that has friend zone vibes written all over it. Do we think that's just a Michelle thing though? Because when she had the Rodney date, it was like, I happily blah, blah, blah. Like she does these callbacks that are puns. Like maybe that's just her. And she even said in that conversation with Martin, they kind of bonded over the fact that neither of them is particularly comfortable

with super intimate moments or the touchy feely stuff, which I can relate to. Like when I first started dating, which was very late in the game, I probably got my first kiss. I was like 17 or something crazy. Like I was about to in the game. I probably got my first kiss. I was like 17 or something crazy. Like I was about to graduate high school. So I've always been a little bit uncomfortable with like the physicality and the babes and the booze and like meaning it in any way seriously. Like it all was just a bit of a joke to me. I can only take it so seriously. So I would always have these nicknames that kind of minimized the romance of it all the heat and the sexual attraction of it all

she's said she's not really comfortable with that stuff so maybe that's just how she shows affection in a way that keeps her comfortable maybe or well you've seen her with martin who has swag who's the club rat and she she responds to Martin's swag. Like, they have some hot makeouts. I think Michelle's love language

is being listened to and like seen. And so I think for her, like that is one of the ways that she shows that she is seeing the men just like she wants them to see her

is to like reference their shared history and to start to create these inside jokes and make them feel like they have this like whole Yeah, I agree.

How emotionally intelligent So for Martin, the club rat, she's going to be like like I teetily love you but also like I don't think you know like in terms of like whether Michelle's a sexual person or not

to be clear I'm not saying she's not a sexual person she can be uncomfortable in her words not mine I'm not disagreeing yeah the sappy stuff what I'm saying. I'm not, I'm not disagreeing easily. Yeah. The sappy stuff. It's not really a sexy. What I'm saying, like Martin is, despite him being the club rat is he has swag and confidence and you see Michelle respond like Nate, Joe, quiet confidence, but confident.

And like, you know, Rick, I'm sure he is a confident guy, but I think Michelle has talked about this. She has been the dominant person in a lot of her relationships and she will always be that person. But I think for what she seems to be articulating is that what she wants for her partner is someone who at least meets her at that level of confidence and swag and owning a room. And I don't think Michelle always wants... I don't think Michelle wants to walk in a room at like, say, an event with her partner and always be the shining star. I think she like... Someone who can take up space too. Is attracted to a man who can also do that, right? And that's why I think that's her attraction. I think in Martin who like, hey, listen listen say what you want about my outfit the guy

is owning it right i think she's attracted to that energy we're like rick sweet kind i think she almost the the grade school teacher comes out when she's with someone like rick yeah you do need a martin to pull it out of you to bring that out of you if it's not your natural tendency to sort of like ooze in and be kind of sexy because Martin is sexy in a personal trainer from Miami kind of way. Yeah, like you go to a club, you broke up with your boyfriend, you're

feeling sad and vulnerable and you want like... Martin's going to show you a good time. You pull up Martin's Instagram for years later to be like, look what I did. You want to like... Wait, I'm going to show you this guy on Instagram. You're never going to believe this. be like, look what I did. You want to like, maybe it's like... Wait, I'm going to show you this guy on Instagram. You're never going to believe this. I know, look at his eyebrow.

Crazy. Like, if you're ever going to have a one night stand, you knew Martin, you know, like your boyfriend, like left you, like you might be fucking Martin. I think one thing to point out with Martin is that his family moved from Argentina when he was 10. And so even though like, I feel like Miami is a place with like a huge Latinx population,

he did go through like this big cultural shift at like a formative age. So I think like part of the swag, like, yeah, we can categorize it as like more of a fuck boy thing because of he's a trainer from Miami with a shaved eyebrow. But I think a part of it is also just like a real charisma

and an ability to adapt. I don't want to say Martin's a bad guy. He's in his mid to early 20s. Good for him for being a fuckboy. It's just who he is. No, we don't know that he's a fuckboy, right? Yeah, okay, never mind. We could go down that rabbit hole.

If he is, he's powerful. He would be a very powerful fuckboy. What does that mean? Because I just think, because on their one-on-one date, he listened to her. When they were in the hot tub or during the date portion, she said something about being capable. And then he brought it up at the end.

So I'm like, that's a powerful fuck boy. He's got it in him. And also, you know, on this show, we distinguish the difference between player and fuck boy. Like a fuck boy is someone who's like at a time of their life where like, I'm not going into a committed relationship. I'm here to have sex. I'm going to clubs to do this. I'm not saying Martin lies or is deceitful or, I mean,

I think he would lie for his friends, but we're not. then that's different. We're not necessarily saying, I'm thinking he's cheating. He's doing God. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that,

but he is at a time of his life where, you know, sex and clubs and bottle service is a priority and he's non-committal. But he also knows how to talk a good game.

Yeah. Like he will sweep you off your feet. He might not say I love you but then all of a sudden after the sex he's just like, you know,

like maybe. I feel like he's the guy who kisses you so well in the morning that you forget that he's sneaking out right right

but halfway out the door but like oh my god it's like that was such a good goodbye yeah so we're not saying he's like a piece of shit

we're just okay good good he's he's just Martin he is not he is not here for love just you know what I'm saying like he is going to be monopolizing his time He's just Martin. He is not here for love. You know what I'm saying?

He is going to be monopolizing his time on the Bachelorette by lots and lots of bottle services in Miami. Good for him. Live your truth, Martin. It's fine. All right. So Rick has his one-on-one. He gets a rose. Rick has a rose.

Olu has a rose. Martin has a rose rick has a rose uh olu has a rose martin has a rose uh the uh michelle walks in and we hear how chris s is beside himself um for it's just like if i were there i would have done something different i wasn't there um etc etc and i had ally uh transcribe his speech which i was blown away by and to your point it started off like maybe okay except for the fact that like there is a protocol lead walks in you know addresses the group I've had a good week this is how I feel

let me know and he's just like Michelle let me step you right there let me I'm going to let you finish but okay Skippy

he literally also handed her the drink too he's like take it sit down here we go he was like drink up oh my god I mean like, take it, sit down. Here we go. He was like, drink up. Oh my God.

I mean, like, listen, I, it was just that energy you sometimes see from men below a certain height who project a certain type of like aggression. Is that the Napoleon complex? And unnecessary situations to like peacock. I mean, I don't know how else to. I feel like he makes a lot of money and is like that guy who's like blackout drunk who tries to get into your Uber

and you're like, this is not your Uber, sir. He sells life insurance. Yes. And he's really good at it and he makes a killing doing it. Yeah. He lives in West Hollywood.

He's a commodities broker. He lives in West Hollywood? I'm going to have to run into this fucker? Better sleep with one eye open nick he's a commodities broker yeah or a commodities trader okay anyway he says before we get started i wanted to say something i wasn't at the cocktail party the other night, but I know that she addressed that, that she felt like she wasn't being seen. And I think that there are guys here that think that they have it in the

bag. And I think that's bullshit. And I think that they're not showing you that, you know, the effort you deserve. And I think this is something you would say like i don't know to michelle by yourself like why are you talking to michelle while the group is watching it's a little performative yeah anyway you know the effort that you deserve and i think that you should give time i think i think that you should give time now he's telling michelle what to do what the fuck was that like come on skippy or maybe he could be like you know it would it's weird either way but if he wanted to say just be like i just hope that i want you to know i believe that there are people who do see you here and i'm and i'm one of them and i'm committed to showing you that yeah but instead

what was he saying he made a demand for time yeah you should start saying fuck he's basically saying send nate home pay attention to me and like what world skip do you think she's sending nate home and like i am the hubris, like I don't know where that confidence comes from, but like I wouldn't tell Michelle to send Nate home over me. And I'm a pretty confident guy. Like, look at Nate.

Like, come on. Like, know your role. I don't know. Anyway, and then he says, and I feel like the guys that think that they have it in the bag, they should either speak up or they should go home.

Speak up about what? Right. Like admit that I too think that I've got it in the bag. Like I would just like to. You're assuming like the guys on Annie's TV are like, you think you're the front runner. I'm like, I mean, I'm confident,

but I've literally never said I'm having this in the bag, but I said I'm getting a 101. I don't think there's anything wrong with that too, right? Like I get the risk of arrogance if you say I'm feeling like the front runner, but when we're dating in everyday life,

you know, I call my girls and I'm like, girl, this man is in love. Like I have got this in the bag. It doesn't take away from the fact that I'm also very much into him and excited to have it in the bag. Aren't you supposed, like how could you possibly, that's the bullshit of the story in this world.

You can't fall in love and be sincere about your feelings about them if you don't believe that they're into you. Like, or you're just a weird psycho. If you can fall in love with someone who you think doesn't like you, well, then you're weird. Right. love of someone who you think doesn't like you well then you're weird right you know because like love is based off of reciprocity and mutual connections and like being on each other's level and you're just like i feel this because i'm confident you feel about that yeah if you don't think they're feeling the same way then it's not about them then you're not falling in love with them then you're just stalking crushing creepy i don't know what you want to call it, but like you're, well, you're Skippy.

You're Chris S. Oh, Chris S. You feel bad. I don't feel bad. I don't feel bad that I meant that so minimally. Yeah. So anyway, it was weird. I think, I don't like that Nate keeps calling him weird

because I think weird is cool, but dweeb I thought was appropriate. was weird i think i don't like i don't like that nate keeps calling him weird because i i think weird is cool but dweeb i thought was appropriate um here's where i didn't like like how nate handled the conversation back to what we were talking about before like just own it nate just say like i hope it's okay that I believe in our connection. Ooh, see, but it's the way you phrased it. Do we think that Nate, genuine question, is capable of or the kind of guy to be able to phrase it in that way? Because that first one-on-one with Michelle,

when he was like, I'm sorry you feel that way. I thought, okay, well, maybe this is just a guy a few words. Maybe he's not really great at like tapping into that emotional intelligence to articulate what's going on upstairs. So I don't just a guy a few words. Maybe he's not really great at tapping into that emotional intelligence to articulate what's going on upstairs. So I don't think he could formulate those words. I don't know. Prior to this episode, I had high hopes for Nate.

I thought to say, are you intimidated by Joe? Was a thoughtful... I mean, I'm not trying to give him some sort of medal about like... But he was saying things and certainly maybe we're just hearing his best moments through the edit but he was he was saying things

and at times where I was like I like that he said that like if I were in Nate's shoes I wish I would have said something like that or I would have wanted to think I would have said something like that so I had high expectations of Nate, thinking that, yes, all he had to say is, you've been confident the whole time, Nate. Now's not the time to stop.

And instead of not knowing what to say and kind of being like, I mean, I don't even know what he said. It was kind of nothing. He didn't say anything. He really didn't say anything in that first sit down. He was just like, essentially, I'm sorry you feel that way. Yeah. And even that, I only halfway bought.

It didn't even seem like he was processing how hurt she was. And I'm not saying that that was like, fuck boy, not processing it. I'm just like, I don't think he understood the gravity of her emotion. Yeah. And then when he was about the Chris stuff, he got defensive and made it about Chris almost being like, I don't know why these guys are like talk.

Yeah. He kind of took the bait, right? Yeah. Chris clearly was just baiting him. Yeah. He took the bait. Yeah.

And I wish she would have been like, yes, I am confident and I'm also just excited and I hope it's okay that I believe in this connection. I think we're forming, but I just want to make it clear

I don't think I have it in the bag I heard you on the group date I've been thinking a lot about it I like you are more than worth like fighting you know whatever platitude you want to use and blah blah blah but yeah like come on Nate like what

I just feel like the comparison of what she said to him on the pillow fighting date versus at the cocktail party like she again tried to in a very eloquent Michelle way lay it out for him at the pillow fighting date and clearly she still wasn't getting what she wanted out of him so even her language like elevated with him at the cocktail party and was like I shouldn't have to light a fire under someone's ass to be with me or like to want to be with me. So it's like,

she's, I mean, even though she, you know, is having these very calm conversations, it's like, even her language is shifting because I think she's getting

really frustrated. Yeah. Now you can see it. Yeah. She's the too cool for school. Nate, like it was great. Made a great first impression.

I like the confidence. I like the unbothered, but like, I need you to give a shit. Yeah. Like I need more now. Because there's nothing frustrating than like dating someone who's like constantly like unbothered by everything.

Right. Like sometimes we want our partner when we're frustrated to match our energy and be like, yeah. And then what is really frustrating is he's proven he can get bothered. He got bothered by Chris S. He got the energy going when it came to defending his honor and what he's here for and what he's not here for. So he's clearly capable of being aroused in that way

and proving that he's, you know, not here for this or he's upset with you and he can articulate that. So I wish I'd seen some of that passion directed towards the Bachelorette instead of Chris S. That's a great point. He does confront Chris S. Chris S has proven

he's just here proving that he's just fucking annoying. It's one thing to find yourself in this world and know that you ruffled some feathers. I know what that's like to be in that world.

But to just embrace it in such a you ruffled some feathers. Like, I know what that's like to be in that world. And I, but like, to just embrace it in such a petty, kind of like, I know everyone hates me. I know. He went to grab his rose. I was like,

oh my God. You know, you can be like, why, you could be like, fuck man, like, it seems like I like,

ruffled some, it wasn't my intention. Like, like, he wasn't trying to solve the problem. He wasn't trying to like, talk to Nate and be like,

you know yeah i'm sorry you know like it was just chris s has been this guy in this group setting in all of the social situations of his life i think and so he has fully embraced the chip on his shoulder and he is so okay with playing this role because it's the only one probably he's ever been able to play which is a little sad it's sad like compassion probably he's ever been able to play. Which is a little sad. It's sad like Compassion for Chris S. I was just like how does this fucker

get on this show? For that exact reason. Exactly. He's doing what he was brought here to do. Which is like I guess. And clearly

he's going to continue to because when she gave him that last rose. Oh yeah. I mean it's just like you know he was getting that rose. Of course.

We need him to get that rose so we can talk shit about him yeah and they're all the confessionals of him being like i'm gonna wink at olu does not wink at olu i know i didn't wink at olu in my mind exactly it's like what it's like all talk also like you know what you weren't there chris and we saw olu open up and be a man and be like and so like shut the fuck up Chris like Olu can say whatever he wants to you like I don't know and because it was yeah because like Chris wasn't

like if this was about Nate Chris fine make it about Nate but he talked to the whole group and when you do that when like the producers kind of use it as a tool, right? So every time they have the bachelor or the bachelorette

and they'll be like, hey, like, you know, like it's the beginning of the cocktail party. Like, you know, you should tell them. But you don't. And so when you address the group

as the bachelor or the bachelorette and you say like, there's just people here, you know, I've been, you know, it seems like a lot of you, stuff like that. No one knows who the fuck

they're talking about right everyone's worried it's about them and that's how you create tension in that room it's like a you know it's a it's a tool yeah and so Chris is like doing this not necessarily by design or plan but just because he's a shit um I just fucking hate people like Chris. I couldn't tell. It's like you have no purpose other than to be obnoxious. Oh, man. That's your, that's the value you add,

being obnoxious. Anyway. So, man, Romeo. I was, I wanted more for Romeo. Wait. Such high hopes. He was a mathematician from Harvard.

Like New York? Oh, right. I was so disappointed when he didn't get a rose. So handsome. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. I was surprised that he didn't get a rose, if only to buy a little bit more time to figure out if there was a connection. I don't think Michelle is all that into

extraordinary cerebral men. I think she's not looking for a dummy by any stretch. But I think she likes the athlete. I think she likes more of a physical dominating presence. And she's certainly got brains for days, right? So like she doesn't necessarily... I don't think she's looking to get in some sort of like philosophical or like

so like I think the Romeos of the world are not her vibe is my guess. But see that I would agree with you but then I'm like she's a teacher. He's a mathematician. Like I just feel like they could be solving the world's problems together. That's honestly what she said she wanted right? Like someone to tackle. I've seen a lot

of smart sophisticated women date a lot of smart, sophisticated women date a lot of mimbos. It's a thing. Do you mean himbos? Or himbos, mimbos, whatever. And I'm not saying she's into a, she's not looking for a dummy, but I'm just saying.

It doesn't take much. Yeah, I don't think she needs like the mathematician from Harvard is what I'm saying. Oh my God, just saying. That't think she needs like the mathematician from Harvard is what I'm saying oh my god just saying that just sounds so great the mathematician from Harvard

it's very impressive and I you're like a nice guy because it's like you're right you would be like how is he not like right

beating Chris S. Goddard I mean like Romeo who else is still I mean Clayton I mean he's a fucking bad guy

but like even like you know we love Rick he's a fucking bad guy but like even like you know we love Rick he's nice but like how Romeo? like you know and we get why

Rodney's there you know because he showed us this very fun side Will also like Will it's gone it's disappointed I was okay with Will

not being there you didn't like Will? I kind of liked him no I did not like him I just was like okay he can go but. You didn't like Will? I kind of liked him. No, I did not like him. I just was like, okay, he can go. But Romeo, I really was like, oh, this is top three just on site. Well, that's the thing. You know, like when they're casting, right?

You know, you got your Chris S's. You're just like, you know, you don't stand a chance. But like, we all know right here. And then your Peters and things like that. And Romeo was casted for Michelle. Right. But there's a lot of people who are casted for the leads

who the leads just end up not being into and they're just not good TV. You know, that's why you get a lot of like, that's why you always get a handful of like, how are they going home week three? And it's because the leads not into them and they're not good TV. Yeah.

And I think that's what we have in Romeo. Anything else before we wrap it up? Should we get Zeri's hometowns and then also all the way pick? Oh my gosh. Give me your top four and give me your winner.

Based on who I think Michelle's going to choose or who I'd love to see her choose. Let's start with Michelle. Okay, so Nate's definitely in there. In some weird twisted way, I kind of see Martin just staying alive, just treading water. I can see it.

Oh my gosh. Like his stamina. He's a personal trainer. He's not giving up. I think I see Martin be a late season villain. Oh yeah, a little plot twist at the stamina. He's a personal trainer. He's not giving up. I think I see Martin be a late season villain. Oh, yeah. A little plot twist at the end. Yeah, I think those late nights in Miami clubs,

he's got the stamina. He's going to find a way to push through till sun up. Okay, so we've got Martin. We've got Nate. I would say... Oh, gosh. Joe, right? I guess. Really? Wait. Yeah, gosh. Joe, right? I guess.

Really? Wait. Yeah, sure. I am. Is it weird that I still think Rick? I think she likes him. And I think she might. I would hope she will sort of grapple with the idea of, OK, is this guy really good for me?

He might not be the sexiest. He might not be the coolest. He might not be the sexiest. He might not be the coolest. He might not be missing an eyebrow, but we could potentially build a life together. And I'm just going off of recent chemistry. I personally, I have Olu. And if it was me picking, right? I would have Olu. I'd have Romeo. He's out already. Clayton's cute. I could see him maybe making it into the top four just from like a strategy perspective of like how does he end up being the bachelor

if he doesn't go further? I don't know. Oh, and because the producer told you that it was he's good with kids. Michelle's kids. So I think this next coming episode when they're in Minneapolis

is going to be Clayton's big turnaround. Yeah. Let's hope. I'm giving Clayton It's going to be 15 seconds of big turnaround. Yeah. Let's hope. I'm giving Clayton It's going to be 15 seconds of him like picking up a kid.

You're like, you know, kindergarten cop. You know, the kid's hanging on him. I'm sure he's a swell guy. Remember Brandon? Brandon's a guy we keep. He's getting group roses.

Group date roses. Yeah, but that just means his one-on-ones has yet to come. And again, saving those, we went from quarantine bachelorette to travel bachelorette. And you want to be on a travel date.

You just do. So, who's gotten one-on-ones yet does not mean all that much. My top four nate joe i'm gonna say rodney and then rodney really i think she liked rodney rodney makes her feel safe and comfortable and brandon brandon's in my top four no mart no Martin I'm gonna count my boy out Martin's going all the way Martin's going all the way man

I could see it but I'm just I'm not very I'm only confident with Joe I feel like it's between Martin and Nate I'm only I'm only confident with Joe

I think Nate no Joe's my winner right now Joe's my friend really I think after this episode I think Joe's got this quiet like he's

he's established this connection yeah there's a quiet confidence. I think there'll probably be some moment where Michelle feels like she has to pull from him. They're both from Minnesota. They're both from Minnesota. And I think he'll really shine.

When Joe gets his one-on-one, we'll see. But I think... We've seen also a promo of Joe and Michelle on a beach. As someone who's from Minnesota, they don't look like that. Well, I'm just saying, I think Joe wins. He takes it all. I don't know Joe's in the top four,

but if Joe and Nate are in the top four, I'm not good at my job. But yeah, I think Joe passed Nate this episode for me yeah i think nate i think his that swag and aloofness is gonna it's wearing thin i think he'll rebound but i think ultimately that energy will make michelle feel like she's chasing Nate more than the other way around. And I think the Joe and Michelle connection will progress at a steady pace, but we'll make her feel more comfortable. I would agree, except we often, I don't know if she'll do this or not. So this

isn't commentary on her personality type or what she'll do, but like we often repeat patterns, right? Even when we know something isn't good for us. The fact that she even sat Nate down and it felt like she was pulling teeth. She's basically being like, I don't want to pull teeth while pulling teeth. So I could see him making it to the end, doing just enough, saying just enough.

And the infatuation is so strong. He'll get the top two. Yeah, she's going to take a leap of faith or maybe go with him and be like, I want to buy into this because I want it to be you so badly. And you've done just enough for me to feel like maybe it could work.

I believe in Michelle. It'll be the classic final two guys who meet mom and dad. And it will be Nate's the guy I've always picked. Joe's going to do something different. You know, like something like that. She's smart, beautiful woman. And she's very's going to do something different this time You know like Something like that She's smart Beautiful woman

And she's very clear That she wants something different That she's always had So I hope that's the case And if so then yeah Joe for sure Over We'll see

A couple of the other guys Zuri Thanks so much I know you have to get going Thank you Always a pleasure to have you Welcome back anytime Please again

Always let the people know Where they can find you Watch you Consume all the great things you're doing You guys can watch me on Access Hollywood, weeknights, or check me out on Instagram, Zuri Hall, Z-U-R-I-H-A-L-L. And I have my podcast, Hot Happy Mess. We have new episodes every Monday. It's love, dating, relationships, career advice, all the stuff. So follow me. Well, our audience certainly is into that. So be sure to check out all of Zuri's stuff and her podcast. Thanks for listening, guys.

Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. Check out our Ask Nick episodes that come out every Monday. And keep listening for an amazing conversation with the one and only GloZell. Thanks for listening.

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